Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 828: Remember Your Life is Now with Audrey White

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Episode 828: Remember Your Life is Now with Audrey White · The Trauma Therapist

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Trauma Therapist Podcast. Plus listeners can listen to episodes early and ad free right
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now. Become a Plus listener by going to Apple Podcasts searching for the Trauma
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Therapist Podcast and signing up today or welcome back to the Trauma Thepist podcast.
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My name is Gamiferson. My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible
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selves, to be human, to be real, not just a clinician.
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I'm a big believer in who we are is more important than what we know,
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and this requires cultivating authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires
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intention. Can learn more about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma
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Therapist Project dot com. That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get
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started. So here we go. So five four, three, two and
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one, our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have
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as my guest today, Audrey White. Audrey welcome, Thank you, Yah.
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I'm so excited to be here. Awesome, appreciate you being here.
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So. Audrey White is the CEO of the Grief Coach Academy and holds a
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Master of Public Health from the University of Michigan. She understands grief both professionally
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and personally. In twenty twenty, Audrey lost eight family members, including her
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mother. Twenty twenty two, her brother was tragically killed by his wife,
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who subsequently took her own life. Through her own journey of healing, Audio
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has developed a deep compassion for those suffering from loss setbacks in grief. Audrey,
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Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. So before we go
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in here, share with our listeners where you're from originally and where you are
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currently. So. I am from a little tiny town in Michigan. Grew
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up northern Lower Michigan on the shores of Lake Hirang and lived there for a
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number of years and moved out to California and Sanos, California. I've been
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here for just over twenty one years now, and this is home. And
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you just got back from Africa, and I just got back from Africa.
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Let's take it a little digression here. Why did you decide to go to
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Africa? Who so this? I reconnected with a friend that I knew in
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Michigan and we had dropped off. We had actually worked together, you know
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how the universe works. I was in a bar in San Francisco watching the
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Michigan State Game and in locks this woman and we're both like, Gosha,
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I know you. And this is back in twenty fifteen, and it took
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us a while to put it together, but we had actually worked together on
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the state wide crisis lines when we were right out of college. This is
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back in gosh, late nineties, and as right before my I was right
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after my daughter was born, so it was around ninety five and hadn't seen
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her since. And one of the things that she loves to do is travel,
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and so I was reasy. You know, I had my babies young,
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and so I was busy raising my babies when I was little, or
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when I was little, when I was a much younger. How's that?
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And she loves to put together trips, and so she put together this African
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safari and she's like, who wants to go? She always invites her tribe.
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And I said, yeah, you know, it'll be my fifty fifth
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birthday. I want to go. And I had committed to going. And
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this was a few months before my brother was killed. And I called her
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afterwards, going, I don't know if I can commit to this. I
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don't know where I'm going to be at that time. I don't know what's
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going on. And she just she said to me, Audrey, you're going
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to need something to look forward to. You're going to need something for you
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because this. You will get through this, and it's important for you to
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have something for yourself. And I said, you know, I don't know
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if she goes, We're going to commit to this. Whatever you need,
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I'm here and I will cover anything that you need. I said, okay.
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And so it was the best thing, because it truly is. It's
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been this and we'll go back and we'll talk about everything that happened. But
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to be able to celebrate my birthday there and I took a little piece of
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John with me, my brother and left him in the Serengeti and in the
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Indian Ocean. And so it was a magical way of having him with me
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on this journey, of releasing him on my travels. And it's been very
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he very healing. So yeah, thank you for sharing that story. I
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mean, just just sounds so intent. How did this start for you?
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Let me, so let's just how far back do you want to go?
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There's a whole lot to talk about, you know. Let me just quickly
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go through how I grew up. I was the youngest of three in a
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little teeny tiny town. And my brother, my oldest brother, John,
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fifteen years older than I. Randy, my next brother, is eleven years
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older than I, and then there was me, and so I grew up
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kind of as an only child. I mean, I remember my oldest brother
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John coming home from college. I don't remember living with him. I mean
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I was probably three when he would come home from college and we'd watched SESSI
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Bee Street and Star Trek and we build the Starship Enterprise on My Life Write
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Together. And those are my first memories of my brother John and I,
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you know, And so growing up as an only child, essentially, my
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dad was an alcoholic. My mother was really swept into her codependency and survival.
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So I never really felt like a fit in this family. I didn't
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know how I belonged because they didn't want to talk about anything, and I'm
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like, I want to talk about everything, like there's an elephant in the
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room. Let's let's let's address this and ye, and so I always felt
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like this alien. And I go through I study psychology. I worked on
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the stuff crisis lines and ended up with a master's in public health and the
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whole while I'm working on healing myself, Like there's so many things with adult
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children of alcoholics, what we go through and how we look at the world
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and never feeling like you fit in. I was also sexually abused by a
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cousin when I was younger, and so this idea of that my body is
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not my own, that my life isn't my own, was always there.
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And I think since since I left, you know, moved out of my
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family of origin, I've been struggling to just find my self and struggling with
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this idea of self worth, struggling with all of this. Well, you
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know, fast forward, I ended up in a relationship with a narcissist for
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six years, which really really impacted how I looked at my life. It
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had worn me down so much that this idea of trust and intimacy and belief
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in myself really when all of that fell apart, I was probably at an
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all time low. And that was back in twenty nineteen, and that's when
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I found Aurora Winter and the Grief Coach Academy, and I knew I needed
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this to heal. My father had died in two thousand and five, And
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that was truly the first time that I understood why I was in this family.
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As he was dying, you know, the doctor had told my mother,
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you know, it's there's nothing more we can do. And I saw
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my mother just just collapse in her chair and I knelt down beside her and
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I said, you know, Mom, that we got this like death is
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just birth, and we're going to hold him and we know how to do
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birth, and we're going to just birth into the next to what's next.
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And I don't know where those words came from, because it was something that
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it was almost this this feeling of like, okay, I'm saying this word.
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Did it come from? And so that night we had held vigil.
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We you know, sang and prayed and held him. It was really important
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for my brother mother to have my brother John get there in time to say
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goodbye to him before she was ready to let go. And as he entered
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the room, Mom fell apart, John fell apart, and I just walked
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over to my dad and I put my hand on his heart, put my
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hand on the crown of his head, and just held him until he let
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go. And it was like it was this innate knowing of how to do
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death and how to hold this and that was in two thousand and five,
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and then go through everything, went through this horrible breakup in twenty nineteen that
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really cost me a lot of my self worth. At that point, I
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met Aurora Winter, who was the founder of the Grief Coach Academy, and
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I went, I've always wanted to go through and help people through grief and
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loss and death and dying, and just never knew how to get there.
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And it just felt like the perfect, perfect opportunity to really focus on this,
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and it helped me so much to go through my own grief of not
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only my father but at the time grieving the loss of this relationship, grieving
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my belief and myself grieving who I thought I was to versus how did I
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get into this place? It and the way the universe worked. It really
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set me up to have these tools and have this community around me who really
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holds space for grief and loss. And then comes twenty twenty and the whole
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world changes and we're all in this intense form of grief from losing our society,
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losing our connections, our community through COVID and at the very beginning of
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COVID. It kicked off the end of February. I lost my dog.
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Let's put that out there. But she was like my dog, and I
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hadn't had her very long and she was just Things happened really fast, as
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they do, and then it was this cascade of I lost a cousin A
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couple of weeks later, it was an my uncle, my mom's youngest brother.
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My cousin's wife passed. I swear it was from a broken heart.
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She just couldn't live without him. I had another cousin pass away in the
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end of September. Mid September, one of my mom's sisters, there was
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three sisters left, and one of my mom's sisters, Aunt Maydi, had
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passed, and we all talked to each other, you know, my cousins,
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and I'm like, you know, this is going to happen, like
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we're all going to go because they're not going to want to stay here without
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each other. And I remember my mom saying after Mayti passed that it's one
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less connection she had in the world. And thirteen days later, my mother
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died, and six weeks after that, my last aunt died, and then
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shortly thereafter a few months later, her husband died, and so it was
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this cascade of losing so many people in a very short amount of time,
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none to COVID, but it was somewhere expected. Some are unexpected. But
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we couldn't get together and grief. We couldn't come together and you know,
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celebrate their lives and support one another in person. And I have to kind
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of have a caveat with this because I had an amazing death with my mother
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in the middle of COVID. So I'm so grateful and feel so blessed that
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the hospital where she was at in Kansas really allowed us to just they shut
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us in a room, just do what we wanted. She had lost the
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ability to swallow, like her muscles just were not working. And I told
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my mother, it's with her. And I'm watching all these tests that they're
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doing, and I'm like this, this is it, so Mom, you
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can't eat. It's been days since you've eaten. You can't. You can
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no longer even swallow SIPs of water or ice chips. You're choking on this.
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And I said, we only have a matter of a few days at
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best, and are you ready to die? And she just looked at me
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and said, yes, it's like, here's this woman who just embraced what
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is. And I really believe that through the work that I've done that I
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was able to hold that space for her. And it was so different than
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my dad's stuff because it didn't tell us what was going on to the very
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end. And with Mom, we were able to have this time where it's
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like this is happening, and so it was the acknowledgment of it. I
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don't know how she found the strength, but she talked for days. You
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know. We had I think three or four days where we talked and we
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laughed and we cried, and we did all the things. I managed to
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arrange a private, you know, a little concert from a friend of mine
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who's a musician. He called on FaceTime and saying to her, and we
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just did all the things, you know. And two days before she had
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passed, I received notice that the company I was working for was acquired.
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And so it's like here we go, like, here's this going on,
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and this going on and and so there was a lot going on at once.
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And I was so grateful that my brother and I, Shohn and I
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could bet with my mom and just like I said, they shut the door
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and let us, let us do what we needed to. And I think
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half the time they thought we were just having a party in there, because
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we were laughing so much. And it was really beautiful, you know.
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When she she finally was tired one evening because I don't think I can talk
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anymore. It's okay, it's all right, you don't have to. And
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the next morning her breathing had changed, and my brother and I were with
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her, and he stepped out of the room and I just held her hand
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and I started singing to her and she let go. And to be in
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that space too, It's such an honor to have been there for both my
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parents as they were letting go, and that I know that I did things
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why she won. Sorry, it was such a blessing, you know.
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And I took some time off after that, a little bit to just reconnect
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and feel grounded. Twenty twenty one, I'm dealing with this acquisition. I
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had worked for this company, Mariocardia, for about four years, and all
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of a sudden, when you're acquired, you know, they put in place
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other people, so like we have departments that are just gone, and all
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of a sudden you're sending an email, you get a bounce back and it's
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like I didn't know that person was gone, you know. So it's this
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loss again of not being able to come together to celebrate, which all of
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us felt during COVID, losing people left and right that I'd worked with for
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years. And at the end of that year, the end of twenty one,
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it was like, I can't, I can't do this anymore, you
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know. I've talked to my doctor. I'd been kind of in this functional
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depression where I was handling work, not at the level or it's used to,
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but handling it, but nothing in my life was being handled. My
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health wasn't being handled. And my doctor's like, that's it. You need
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to go out for a little while and take care of yourself. So Joanne.
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Year of twenty twenty two, I went out for a couple of weeks,
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or what was intended to be a couple of weeks, and eight weeks
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into my leave, I'm like, Okay, starting to feel like myself again.
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I've got my I've taken care of like all of these appointments that I
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haven't done for years. And I get a call or I actually I got
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a Facebook message from this woman and she said, I'm your brother's neighbor.
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Can you call me. This is nine o'clock at night my time. He
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lived in Kansas. And I'm like, I knew. I knew as soon
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as I called her. And Shelley just said, you know, I'm their
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neighbor. And I don't know how to tell you this, but they're both
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gone. And I said, she killed him, didn't she? Because I
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knew this was going to happen. I knew in my bones. Sorry,
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And you don't think this is going to happen to your family, right,
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It's something that happens elsewhere. You see this on the news, and how
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do people move through this? And all of a sudden, I'm having to
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tell my children, calling my daughter on the East Coast, telling her that
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her uncle was killed. I'm talking to sheriffs and all of this stuff that's
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going on, trying to make sense of what happened. And like I said,
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it's something you don't think is going to happen in your family. And
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yet you know his wife struggled with mental illness. She I could see she
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was spiraling. I had asked him to get the guns out of the house.
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Yeah, it's not that it's fine, it's fine, you know,
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everything's locked up. So after that happened, I ended up having to go
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to Kansas to handle the estate. It was the only one, you know,
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left in terms of the family. By that time, my little brother
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had, as I like to say, he seceded from the family's he had
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dealt with his I think the issues of codependency and and kind of the trauma
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that we grew up with. Each of us grew up with in his own
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way. And for John, I see his codependency coming out in kind of
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this ultra responsible, full honor duty. This is my vow. And I
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would talk to him, I'm like, you're no longer married to her.
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She's you're married to her disease, and you can't fix this. And at
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some point you have to to really look at that and say what do you
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want to do? And his choice, and I have to remember this,
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it was his choice to honor his vows, to honor his duty in a
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way. He had sacrificed his life a long time before he was ever killed.
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And I know that that's who he was as a person. And so
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I've been able to make peace with this whole situation. But in the days
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that followed, I flew out to Kansas, I you know, that's where
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they lived. I didn't grow up there into a community that was grieving,
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and I knew that I needed to hold the space and honor my brother in
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the way that he lived his life. And in order to do that,
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I couldn't hold onto this anger that his wife killed him. So it was
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a very conscious choice. And what I know and what I believe is that
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anger and negative thoughts, if I'm harboring it against somebody else, it doesn't
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fall on them, it falls on me. And it was a very conscious
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thing to say, if I allow this anger, if I can't release this,
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it's going to destroy my life. I'm sacrificing my life. My brother's
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already sacrificed his. I don't need to do this, So, you know,
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I let that go as best I could have the moment and really showed
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up in this community who really thought that this was a you know, she
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had a mental break, and it was like this was intentional, this was
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planned, This was premeditated, and and walking that line of speaking the truth
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but with love and compassion because all these people are grieving, and that's how
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I got here. You know, that's that's been my life. And so
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that was March twenty first of twenty twenty two. So wow, I mean,
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you have a really beautiful way of articulating your story and your experience.
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How do you define grieving? What is it? What is grieving? Oh?
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I think for me, it's that love that you have for someone doesn't
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go away. You just don't know how to They're no longer here to to
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interact with and how do you how do you move forward in a life without
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them? I felt like, especially after my brother passed, how do I
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I felt untethered in the world. I felt like this orphan he's who I
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would turn to. I was who he turned to, Like we were each
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other's rocks in this world and each other's ties to our past and our history.
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And without that, I felt untethered. I felt at a complete loss.
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So this grieving, it's missing all the little things, you know,
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the sound of his voice. And I'm so glad that I kept some of
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his messages on my phone, you know, one of those people that don't
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delete anything. So I'm like, I'm so grateful because I get to hear
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him say happy birthday to me. But it's finding a way to live in
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the world without the person, without your person, without that connection. And
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then it's the realization and what I know for myself and my belief is that
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we're all energy and vibration, everything energy and vibration. We just are in
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the solid form. Energy can't be destroyed. This is one of the things
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that I said when I did his His celebration is life celebration. His energy
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can't be destroyed, It just simply changes. For so, he's here,
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he hasn't gone anywhere. I just forget that he hasn't gone, and that
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I can talk to him and I can. He sends me bird feathers all
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the time. He was a burner, and so I find them everywhere.
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And so it's learning to communicate and learning to feel that connection where we once
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could see that person and hear that person on the phone, to realize that
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we can sense that that person and that love because it doesn't leave us.
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We just forget. What does it mean when people say I'm not grieving or
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someone says to someone, you know, you're not You're not grieving. You're
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doing everything but grieving this loss or this person. For me, You know,
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grief is so individual there are days when I can get out of bed.
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You know, no one else can judge what you do for your own
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healing. And yeah, there's times when you have to cocoon up and go
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into your cave and all you can do is is, you know, learn
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to breathe again. No one else has a right to judge how you grieve.
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My process through this has been to reach out to others to make meaning
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of this. And one of the things that really challenged my thought process on
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it was what if this didn't happen to me, these losses, what if
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it was for me? What if their losses were to bring me where I'm
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supposed to be in life? And you know, I talked at the beginning
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about struggling with this idea of self worth. As soon as my brother was
28:08
killed and I was going through, you know, these lawsuits and dealing with
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the lawyers and the mess that it was, there was this voice inside me
28:19
that said, Audrey, excuse me, but we suck up because you don't
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have time for this. It's like you're done with that, that you're done
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with this idea that you're not worthy. Get over it because you have things
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to do. And so for me, my process was to reach out to
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others. My by process is to make meaning of the losses that I've experienced
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by helping others. You seem to have well, I've seen, but you
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obviously have a certain strength to walk into these arenas, the arena of grief
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in different situations. What part of that was was intentional? I mean,
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you talked about your upbringing and then the chaos there, but not everyone comes
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out of it doing what you're doing. You know, how how did this
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become intentional for you? You know? I in a way I think I
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wish I knew. But what I think I'm finding is that I just have
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this innercore of belief that we're all in this together. None of us gets
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out of this alive. In our society especially, we don't talk about grief,
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and we do everything that we can to live longer, to prolonged life,
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to think about it in terms of quantity versus quality, and we don't
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talk about these things. And I think maybe that's it. Guy, you
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know, it's just now it kind of hit me this idea that when I
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was little, I always wanted to talk about everything, you know, I
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wanted to talk about what was hidden in the room. That nobody else wanted
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to talk about. And maybe that's it that I want to talk about these
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things. I want to I want people to feel like there's a space where
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they can be heard, or maybe no one else wants to hear it,
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or you feel like they don't or they don't know how to respond to you.
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That doesn't scare me. In fact, bring it on. This is
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what life is. This is this is what's real. Is how do we
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move through the things that happen in our lives. And you know, it's
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not just grieving the loss of people. It's grieving the loss of our childhood.
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It's grieving the loss of our sense of self. It's grieving the loss
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of a job. It's graving the loss of coworkers and having the survival guilt
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of you know, not being the one who's caught in a layoff. There's
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so much that we grieve, you know. I And every time I talk
31:27
to people, I'm always in awe of what they're dealing with behind the scenes.
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Right if I'm honored and lucky enough for people to open up to me.
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I hear about the fact that their son was killed by their their ex's
31:49
boyfriend. I hear about you know, they're caretaking their parents because one has
31:57
to mention one has ailed less. I hear about the you know, going
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through a breast cancer diagnosis, All of these things people are dealing with all
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the time. Where can they go to really honor their grief so that they
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can talk about it, to hold space, to have some tools to move
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through it, to grower around it, so that you can carry this because
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everything everybody has this, and if you haven't, you will. There is
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a statement in a book called The Oh Gosh, the title is Gonna.
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It's by Francis Weller, and in there, I think is the wild Side
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of Sorrow. He says, everything you love, you will lose. And
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you can either take that as I'm not going to love, I'm not going
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to put myself out there, or you can take this as I Am going
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to relish in every single thing that we do and experience and find the gifts
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and find the joy and find the beauty in life because it's there. So
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do you. You're a coach I am, and I'm a coach trainer,
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and you're a coach trainer. So who who comes to you? We have
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a variety of people who come through the Grief Coach Academy people who themselves are
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grieving and wanting to learn how to process their own grief. We have people
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who are who are on their journey through their own grief and see a need
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to help others. And I really believe both parts of those are so healing.
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And a lot of people who come into the Grief Coach Academy may not
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have any thought at first that this is something that they want to do,
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and then through the process they see how it has changed them their own lives
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and brought them peace, and they want to give this to others. So
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we work with individuals and who are struggling with their own process. We work
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with professionals who are wanting to add to their toolbox to help others. Kind
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of just the myriad of anybody who's touched with GRAF friends, can you share
34:23
with us kind of an example, a case for example of someone who came
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to you and how you worked with them. What does it look like?
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Yeah? No, I have a gentleman that I'm still working with and I
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alluded to him earlier. His son was I believe three years old and he
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was killed I think fourteen years ago by his ex's boyfriend at the time.
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He was severely beaten and he was unaware that all of this was going on,
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and and he he actually started us out and we had some amazing conversations
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about what this did to his life, and you know, he shut down.
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He was angry. He really lost himself for about twelve years. Wow.
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And it wasn't did he come to you in the first place because he
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wants to help others. Over the last couple of years, he's realized that
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he has this desire to help men who've lost their children and men struggle with
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finding their voice. He turned to drugs and alcohol and shut down and then
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became a workaholic. And it wasn't until his daughter had kind of reached out
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to him and it kind of broke his heart open and went, I need
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to change. I need to step up for my daughters. And so he's
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on this path of healing himself. He's on this path of wanting to be
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a voice for men who have lost their children. And I think he has
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a great, amazing potential to do that. And so we've talked a number
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of times and we're still working together on his process. But it's really looking
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at one of the things that we do is it's called the Piece method and
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it's really cognitive behavior therapy, but it's about taking this idea that we have
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in our head and you know, we believe something, it's a belief,
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and a belief is just the thought that we continue to think and it can
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change, right, but we're so stuck on this one belief, Like for
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me, it was my brother shouldn't have sacrificed his life for her, you
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know, And it's like if you give the voice to that and really allow
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everybody to express it, then you allow the possibility. How can you accept
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it? How can what can you appreciate in this? For me, it
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was about appreciating that he he lived his life the way he wanted. He
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was you know, about his duty and honor, and that allowed me to
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see that he would have sacrificed his life for her, for anybody else.
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And so it allows people to move from this this idea of this painful thought
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into their these other possibilities that are true. And so we're still working through
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that with with with his process right now. Was there a part of it?
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I mean, how did he manage? Did he how did he grieve?
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Because it sounds like he came to you, he really suppressed a lot
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and I think you know, and that's what he wants to help others process
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through his grief. He's very eloquent and has done a lot of journaling and
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writing about his story. He's still in his process, but he's really for
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him the wake up call with his daughter. He's really turned to his family
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and now he's ready to He's done a lot of self work, a lot,
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a lot that I've done before I came to the Grief Coach Academy,
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and now he's ready to really dive into his own on a different level and
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also to help others. Wow, Augie, damn you you're amazing. I
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mean you you are so inspiring. You just have this present's about you that
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I think a lot of us maybe wish we because there's no joke. I
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mean, what you've gone through is just crazy. And yeah, yeah,
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just thank you for being here. Thank you. How do people learn more
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about what you're doing and reach out to you. They can go to a
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website. My website called the Grief Coach Academy, so it's Griefcoach Academy dot
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com. On there, they can sign up to get some free videos.
39:38
I'm going through a little bit of a process of restructuring our training, so
39:46
I don't have a next training date, but we will soon. But through
39:51
there, you can reach out to me, book a call. I hold
39:54
weekly calls on Wednesday night that anybody can call into. We hop on zoom
40:01
and talk about a little bit about the Grief Coach Academy and also whatever is
40:07
alive and whoever's you know online with me, you know what's alive for them,
40:12
Let's let's talk about it. Let's let's go through what's what's coming up
40:19
and and find that support in each other because we're all in this together.
40:25
So and they can also find me on Instagram TikTok uh it's Grief Coach Academy
40:34
or at Grief Coach Academy and also at Audrey Laura White and yeah, we'll
40:40
have that linked up with the page here at the Trauma Podcast dot com.
40:45
Aud you love to be back. I would love to be back. Awesome,
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awesome meeting you and thank you for what you're doing. Thank you,
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thank you for this forum. Thank you for helping amplify my voice and this
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story and ultimately to help others. You're their grief you're welcome. We'll be
41:08
in touch all right. Thank you, M.