Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Head Of ADL, Jonathan Greenblatt, Speaks On Israel-Hamas War + More (Recorded 10-13-23)

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INTERVIEW: Head Of ADL, Jonathan Greenblatt, Speaks On Israel-Hamas War + More (Recorded 10-13-23) · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning the Breakfast Club.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: Everybody is DJ Envy Charlamagne de Goud. We are to
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed,
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: the director of the Anti Defamation lead, Jonathan Green Black.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome back, Good morning, DJ.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: How are you feeling this morning?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad I'm here. I'm glad I'm here.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We've definitely got stuff to talk about.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: Man, what is going on in the world For people
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: that don't know, don't understand what is going on in
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: Israel and Gaza?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: What is happening?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Look it is Uh, these are dark days. These are
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: dark dark days. I would say that this last week
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: has probably been the toughest week of my adult life.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So last Friday night, around one thirty in the morning,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I got a call from that of my Israel office,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: who lives in a town called Modeen, who said, you know,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: when the phone rings at one thirty in the morning,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I look at the phone and she said, Jonathan,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: there are hundreds, maybe thousands of rockets coming into Israel.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: She said, I don't know exactly what's going on, but
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: you need to know something's up. And so then I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: called my other staff in Israel and was basically up
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: all night trying to figure out what was going on.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And then I would say it was around six in
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the morning that we started to get word here of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: what had actually happened. So it turned out that those
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: rockets that were sent by Ramas into civilian targets in
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Israel were sort of a cover or a distraction for
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: what was really happening, which was this terrorist infiltration and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the massacres that took place up and down the Gaza
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: border in all of these surrounding towns. And they were brutal,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I mean the stories that are still coming out. More
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: than thirteen hundred civilians not just killed, although they were,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I mean it was a slaughter. It was a slaughter.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: But he said, the largest what are the largest number
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: of Jewish people killed in one day since almost the Holocaust?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Jesus, this is I think the largest terrorist active terrorism
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: since nine to eleven. I think it's one of the
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: largest acts of terrorism since the Second World War. And
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: these people weren't just killed, I mean they were slaughtered.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Don't I say slaughtered. They were raped, they were tortured,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: babies were burned in their cribs, children were executed in
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: front of their parents. Parents were executed in front of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: their children. Elderly people were shot in the head at
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: point blank range. And they didn't just kill Israeli Jews.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Israeli Arabs were killed, Asian people who live and work
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: in Israel. There were videos of Thai people being killed.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I saw one man a video of one man being
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's bloodied, he'd been brutalized, being beheaded with
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a shovel. Filipino workers were killed. A lot of people
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: died at this music festival. There was a music festival,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a piece festival, and these men came in on like
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: mechanized hand gliders of some sort with automatic weapons and
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: gunned down approximately two hundred and sixty young people. These
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: are boys and girls and teenagers. Shot them in the back.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Some of the people who'd come in on land were
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: dressed as Israeli medics. They were in like uniforms, you know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and they were in the parking lot. Apparently they stationed
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: themselves in the parking lot. So these men flew in
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: and as I understand, the concert goers who filmed it
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: on their phones, because these people were coming in, they
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: thought it was part of the show. It's like a rave.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: They shot them, shot at them, and the people ran
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and they ran to the parking lot and there were
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: medics there who they thought came into help, and then
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the medics took out their guns because they were actually
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: these terrorists and killed them all. They burned people alive
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: in their cars. And of course the people that they
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: didn't kill, that they didn't maim, that they didn't mutilate.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: They raped a lot of the women before they killed them.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: There were stories about women who were shot in the
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: legs so they couldn't run and then raped. Some of
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: them were killed, but a number of them and others
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: were then seized and brought into gaza. And so we
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: know this because we have the footage. This is the thing.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: We have the footage of all of this because these
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: people gleefully videoed it on their phones. The story that
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I heard about one girl who saw the video of
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: her grandmother being killed because they came into her home.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: They had the grandmother, oh, give them her phone, open
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: her phone, they video themselves killing the grandmother. Then they
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: uploaded it to the YouTube chats or sorry, the WhatsApp
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: chats on her phone. So that's how the grandmother saw
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: her grandmother die in the family WhatsApp chat.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Well, the grandmother saw her.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: The granddaughter, Sorry if I said it wrong. The granddaughter
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: learned that her grandmother had been killed because these men
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: uploaded the video into the into the family WhatsApp chat
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: from the grandmother's phone. But they've seized a lot of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: these people and they've brought them into Gaza. And again
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: we have the footage of all this. We have the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: footage of the murders. We have the footage of the torture,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: we have the footage of the beheadings. We have a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: footage of these people in Gaza like that. There's a
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: number ofos you may have seen them. There's one video
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: of a young woman battered and bleeding, forced out of
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a car, mocked by the crowd, and then lit on fire,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: set on fire in front of all of these people.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: There's a video, another video I've seen, of a young
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: girl brought out of a car, bleeding from the crotch.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I mean it's bloody, you know, and they're leading her
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: through and they're chanting and hooping and hollering like she's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: some kind of I don't know, trophy or something. So
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I mean these things, these videos, like I can't get
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: them out of my mind. Like, you know, we talk
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: about what happened in Rwanda, we talk about what happened
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: in Cambodia, we talk about what happened in the Holocaust,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and these are like things over there, right, And I'm
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: not minimizing them at all, but oftentimes these are incidents
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: for which we don't have the live footage, and they
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: it like it's hard for us to relate to them.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: You can see.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: It's like when they put the pictures of the Via
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: No More on the papers back in the day.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: You can see it. You can actually see what's going on.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And like these are I mean it's like live in
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: color on your phone, real time. And again like the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: applauding of it and the apparent you know, grotesque macabre
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: fun of it. For these people, it's just a kind
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: of sadism that I mean, look, I know people who
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: were killed. I just learned this morning driving in that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: my son's camp counselor. My son goes to a Jewish
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: overnight camp. A lot of kids go to camp, and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: they have some Israelis who come in into the counselors.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: The counselor from his bunk had been missing since all
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: this happened, meaning people knew he was down there and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't find him. And I learned this morning that they
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: identified as corpse overnight. So I don't know if he
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: was one of the people who was burned beyond recognition.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was one of the people
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: who was beheaded, and so they didn't have an easy
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: way to know who he was, but they just figured
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: it out, you know, six days later.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question. So asking in friends
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: and people tell me that the Israeli military is very strong. Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: and they also told me there's a lot of military
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: and they also said that they have this technology that
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: I believe that only the Israeli military in the United
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: States has, where they can block missiles that come and
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: it's like a high percentage rate of them block. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I think it's called the Iron Dome, the Iron Dome.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: So what happened to those strategies were none of that
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: into play?
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I don't know exactly, but here's what
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I think, MV. I think what happened was, Look, this was,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: first of all, we think about Hamas and I think
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: clearly there were a lot of failures here. There were
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: intelligence failures, a military failure, a technology failure, and a
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: moral failure. And I'll talk about that a bit, but
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: just on the military fit technology failure, I think that Look,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the Comas is not some random group of guys, you know,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: showing up on Saturdays and doing like you know, cosplay.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: It's a highly trained military force that's been groomed over
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: decades by the ir audience, armed trained all of that,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and so I think what they did was they identified
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the Israeli like technology centers like the antenna and the
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: different posts where they had the means by which they
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: could surveil or detect, and they took them out and
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I think that inhibited the Israeli response. I also think
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that the Israelis did not believe they had the capability
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: of launching missiles like that. But what we now know
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: why because they've they filmed it. Hamas was you know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: there's been a big water crisis in Gaza for years.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: To step back like Gaza is a is an impoverished,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: very tough place like our hearts should break for the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: people of Gaza right who live under a repressive Hamas regime,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: who have suffered greatly like we should. There's there's a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: there's a human dimension to this on that side that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: we you can't talk about this without talking about that
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: who's faulted it? What's Haramas's fault? One hundred percent? Now
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a good example of it. So the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Israelis didn't think that they had the technology. And there's
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: also been this water crisis for years, a lack of
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: potable water, a lack of drinking water, terrible sewage problem.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: So it turns out, and now we know this because
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: they filmed it, that Hamas has been taking the water
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: pipes out of the ground, repurposing them in makeshift factories
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: into missiles. So where did Hamas get thousands of missiles?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: They didn't.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: The Israelis would never prevent missile parts from going in,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: neither with the Egyptians. Where did they come from? They
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: took the water pipes out of the ground, the water
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: pipes that serve their population, that facilitate things like sewage
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and the passage of potable water, and they turn them
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: into missiles. And again you can see the footage of this.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So we say whose fault is it? Like it is
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: reasonable to say that it would be I mean, Gaza
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: does not need to be like this. It does not
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: need to be the most densely placed, the most I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: don't know this is exactly most densely, but a highly densely,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: highly impoverished pocket. But the reason why it is that,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the reason why it is in such bad straits is
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: because of the Hamas that runs it, that took over
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: in a coup d'tat in two thousand and five or
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: maybe two thousand and seven. The Hamas that has not
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: had an election in sixteen years, The Hamas that forces
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: women to wear hijabs, The Hamas that hangs gay people
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: or kills them. You know, there are no gay people
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in gods are at least open or out. The Hamas
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that doesn't allow the construction of churches or you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: other kind of means of worship for other people. I mean,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that's the reason why the situation is where it is.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Israel doesn't have its problems. I'm not
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: saying Israel shouldn't do more. I mean, you know, I've
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: been here before, and I've been an active, active, fierce,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: ferocious advocate for a two state solution for years, and
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot of criticism from some in my community,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: But I've always believed, I still believe as we sit
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: here today, that you will never have a true and
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: sustainable peace unless you have safety and security for Israelis
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and dignity and equality for Palestinians. That's what I believe.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think you can ever build walls that are
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: high enough. I don't. However, like the war that is
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: now being fought wasn't started by the Israelis, you know,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: And the way I would describe it is, you know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the IDF, the Israeli army, they are there. They use
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the army to protect their citizens. Kamas uses their citizens
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to protect themselves. They put missile launchers in hospitals, they
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: put missile launchers in schools, they put guns and arms
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: in mosques. They dig holes like for the tunnels inside
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: people's home. So why do they do that. They do
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that because the Israelis abide by the conventions of the
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Geneva Convention and the rules of war, and you are
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: not supposed to You are not supposed to bomb hospitals
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: or schools or mosques. Now again, if you're launching missiles
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: from it, it's a different story, and you're then implicating it.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But that's the idea and that's why they do it,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: so they don't leave the Israelis with much choice, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: using their own people as human shields, taking Israelis hundreds
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of people as hot stages, taking elderly people and children.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I can show I will show you the videos.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: I think that's the saddest part, you know, looking at
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: civilians in Israel, civilians in Palestine dying and being casualties
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: are something that seems like it's way bigger than them.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think this will be called the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Hmas war. I think that's what this will be referred
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: to as we look back on it, because again it
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: is tragic when civilians are killed, but the ones who
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: killed the Israelis, again, the grandchildren and the disabled people,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: were the Rahmas terrorists, and the people who are now
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: killing the Gazans are Hamas terrorists. Because if the Kamas
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: terrorists put these hostages out, if they just gave them back,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the Israelis would have no pretext to do. It would
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: be very difficult for the Israelis to do what they're doing.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, israel Is retaliating, though.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I would say they're responding defensive measure. And I say that,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and I use that framing because again, this wouldn't have
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: happened had they not gone in and butchered all these people.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: It just wouldn't have. And I think this is where
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Envy, you asked appropriate, don't they have the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Iron Dome and don't they have all this intelligence? And
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: they do? And so I think there will be like
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: forensics and after actions to try to understand how did
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: this happen for years. But it's not just a military failure.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: It's not just an intelligence failure. It's a moral failure.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Bil's hamas in its charter, which was written in nineteen
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: eighty seven, it says its goal is not a two
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: state solution. It's to eradicate the zionisdentity. That's what it says.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I actually brought it with me, you know, so I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: would have it so I could read it. In it
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: says Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So if you read the charter right, I mean it's
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: off the wall. But I think the Israelis came to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: believe that they could find like a like a modus Vivendi,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: like they could find some kind of status quo and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: live with them. Yes, they hate us, but they'll stay
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: there and we'll stay here. And I think that was wrong.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: And I'll also tell you that I think all of us,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like me and American polity, Americs and others who figured,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you know what, how bad could it be? They'll stay
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: on their side. They'll learn to work it out. We
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: were wrong. And when people tell you they want to
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: kill you, you need to believe them. And when people
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: tell you you're not a human being, you're a Zionist and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: you are committing genocide and you don't deserve to live,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like we should know already, Like, listen to your enemies.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Take them seriously. And and I don't think we took
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: it seriously enough.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Do you think this is start another World war?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think America sent that big aircraft
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: carry over there as a warning to the Iranians. Look again,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Hamas is funded by Iran, the Hamas government. They don't
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: trade with other countries, they don't build industry. Seventy percent
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of their budget comes from Iran. So again, this is so,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: how does it happen that they are at war with
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: their own people and polishing them at they're war with Israel.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: It's because they don't have any accountability so America, and
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: so they're a proxy, They're a militia, they're like an
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: extension of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, their army. Okay, So
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: if Israel goes into Gaza, as they will, is that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: going to prompt other countries to get involved? I think
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: America moved into aircraft carrier over there as assigned to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the Iranians. Don't get involved. So I hope that that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: will deter the Iranians from doing anything. I mean, we've
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: seen in the weeks since this happened, all the government
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in Europe, almost all the governments in the world, I think,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: have spoken out in support of Israel and condemned the massacre.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: But is say Putin wants to take advantage of.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: The I'm sure he does.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Ahama's official even revealed the intent behind you so on
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: Russian television.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Is that right? I didn't know that.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I thought I don't see it in yesterday.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Look, it plays into Russia's hands. They want to distract
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the world from the savagery they're doing in Ukraine. Like
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I get it. They want the West to Fund divert
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: money to Israel and not to Ukraine. I get it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: They want the UN to be focused on Israel, not Ukraine.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I get it. Like it works for Russia. But look,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: if God forbid, there's a world war, I mean God forbid,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Iran gets involved and they shut down the Gulf, and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: then oil can't move, and then prices go up, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: like the whole thing could spiral really quickly, really quickly.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: What is the difference between Palestine civilians in Palestine who
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: might feel like who feel they're being oppressed by an
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Israeli government, what's the differ between them in helmath.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: It's a super good question. So let's step back right.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: So basically in that part of the world where there
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: have been indigenous Jews and indigenous Muslims living forever for
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a long time, thousands of years. Nineteen forty eight, the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: United Nations, these people are skirmishing and fighting with each other.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I want land. I want land. The British pull out.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: The United Nations says we're going to partition the land.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: One side for the Jews, one side for the Arabs.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Now one thing I'll just note here the Jews, so
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity. Jews are
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: from the ancient tribes of Judea, right, you read it
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: in the Bible. That's who the Jews are. Now you
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: can certainly convert to Judaism and not be of that
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: ethnic stock. But it's a little confusing because we are
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: both in ethnicity and we are a religion. Okay. So
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: that being said, so the Jews in the area and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the Arabs in the area, the Jews say, the Jews
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: want all the land, the Arabs want all the land.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: They partition it did Jews say, okay, we'll take half.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: The Arabs say, we won't. We want it all. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: so they go to war. They go to war against
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: this little state, and that's Jordan and Egypt and Syria
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and Lebanon and Iraq, I think, and the israelis this
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: new little country. In nineteen forty eight, they survive, and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: so that becomes Israel. Then in nineteen sixty seven, Syria
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and Egypt and Jordan go to war again against Israel.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: They attack Israel, and Israel wins. And when it wins,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: it pushes back on Jordan, which had a bunch of
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the land that the Arabs didn't want, or the Palisine.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Arabs didn't accept, and so that they occupy that and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that is called the West Bank. And then the Israelis
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: also occupy part of the land the Egyptians came up from,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and that's called Gaza. And the Israelis also occupy part
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: of the land that Syria came in and attacked them from,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and that it's called the Golan Heights. So now Israel,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: which is once this big, gets bigger, and they also
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: occupy the Sinai that the Sinai area that Egypt also
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: came in from. Okay, nineteen seventy three, the Arab's attack again,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Israel repels them again, but they have all this land.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy eight, Israel makes peace with Egypt and they
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: give them back the Sinai. Nineteen ninety three the Oslo Accords.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: The idea is Israel's going to make peace with the
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Palestinian authority, which is so let's step back nineteen sixty two. Remember,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: as I explained, there's a partition Israel. The Jews take
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: half the land, the Arabs refuse. The Jews survive the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: land that was going to go to the Arabs, Jordan
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: takes it, and Egypt takes it. So in nineteen sixty seven,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Israel repels Jordan and occupies that land, that land we
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: call the West Bank. So in nineteen sixty two, in
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: parallel to this, the PLO is formed to represent the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: policy people, the indigenous people who got you know who,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the Arabs who didn't accept the deal in the first place.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three the Oslo Accords, Israel makes peace
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: with the Palestinian the PLO, and they become the Palasin Authority,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the government in the West Bank. It's okay, you can
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: have it. We'll work it out. And in Gaza too,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and in Gaza too, And then in two thousand and
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: seven there are elections in Gaza. Hamas wins the elections
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: in Gaza'll talk about Hamasa one second, and the Palsian
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: authority doesn't accept it. They fight and Ramas stage is
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a coup d'tat and basically wins. They won in the election.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: The PA didn't accept it, so they killed. They killed
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the Palestinian authority and they took over. That's in Gaza.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Now Ramas Ramas is in a it's called the Muslim Brotherhood.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: It's an Islamic movement. It's got branches in different plays
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: started in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood chapter if you will,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in Gaza is called Hamas. Hamas is formed in nineteen
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: eighty seven. Hamas, like I said, wins the election in
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. When they don't get power, they
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: kill the palace. They fight and they kill the palse
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in authority and they take over. So it is and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: has been is recognized by the United States and the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: European Union, many governments as a terrorist organization. It's a government.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Why because, as they say in their charter, it's called
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the Covenant of Ramas. They believe in violence and they
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: don't believe in peace. This is literally what it says. Again,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I can read it if you want. So they believe
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in the eradication of the Zionist entity. They don't refer
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: to it as Israel. Typically they call it the Zionist
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: entity because they don't want to recognize that Israel exists.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So this terrorist group took over and this terrorist group
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: governs Gaza. This terrorist group, again is a Muslim Brotherhood outfit.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So they are a fairly oppressive regime, meaning that it's
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: an Islamic state, meaning they don't allow other religions. They
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: don't allow music, they don't allow dancing. It's a lot
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: like the regime in Iran or what Isis wanted to
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: build in Syria. So these are not people who are
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: like liberal democrats. And these are not people who I
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: think all of us could very easily relate to or
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and they would certainly have no interest in relating to me.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: So the ordinary Palcian people Charlemagne are just living there.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: They are not necessarily members of Hamas. Most policing people
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: are not in the Hamas like military units. They're just
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: moms and dads going to the grocery store.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Who probably want a too state government.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the polling say is about what
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: they want, but I think they probably just want to
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: raise their kids and take a vacation like most of us. Nonetheless, yes,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I will say that Hamas and the Iranians, so a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: lot of this is being pushed by Iran. We can
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: talk about that. But Hamas again has brainwashed and tries
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to use propaganda to tell their people that they're at
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: war with the Jews, not with Israel, by the way,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: with the Jews. So here's where it gets a little confusing.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: So Israel is a the Jewish State. It is a
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Jewish state. It was founded by Jewish people as a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: homeland for the Jewish people in the ancient land where
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the Jewish people have always lived. Not all of us. Again,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: we were thrown out and we've lived all over. Now
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: there are Jews who don't live in the Jewish State
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: like me, and millions of other people. Nonetheless, it's a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Jewish state. So when Ramas says that we want to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: kill the Zionists, and when Ramas says it's the obligation,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: it says again, I'm reading from their charter Article seven.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: The day of judgment will not come until Moslems fight
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Jews and kill them. Then the Jews will hide behind
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out, oh, Maslem,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: there is a Jew hiding behind me, Come and kill him. So,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: as I read this, this is not about again Palestinian identity.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: This is not about dignity, equality of ordinary people. This
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: is about killing Jews. Which is why the head of
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the of Hamas, who by the way, lives in Cutter.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: He doesn't live in Gaza, he doesn't live in the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: West Bank. He lives in Cutter in a villa that's
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: where most of their leaders actually live. They don't live
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: in Gaza, even though Hamas controls it, because their afraid
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the Israelis will get them, so they live in They
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: live very posh lives, driving Mercedes Benzes in very nice
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: digs in Doha. But he did a video earlier in
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the week and he called for a day of jihad today,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a day of jihad, and said that again Muslims should
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: go and kill Jews wherever they are, which is why
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: in New York today there's a police presence in front
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: of every synagogue and every school. Because what the Haramash
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Charter tells us, what the Haramas leadership tells us, is
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that all the Jews are targets. And I mean, that's
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: just the reality. So Israelis do not say that all
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Palestinians are targets Jewish people. They're not my synagogue talking
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: about muslim Not only do I talk about that, like
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: if you remember, like this organization, the one that I run,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: eighty IL fights Islamophobia. I have criticized Israeli government for
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: its policies toward Palestinians. I stood up in twenty sixteen,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: in November after the election, when Donald Trump not my
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: cup of tea? Did this? You know? He was talking
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: about a registering Muslims. Do you remember this? And I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: stood up in front of a crowd of people and said,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm the grandson of a Holocaust survivor. My
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: grandfather lost everything, well if his family was slaughtered and exterminated.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And I said, you know, as a proud Jew, if
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: there is if you try to register Muslims, I'll be
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the first person to register myself as a Muslim because
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I think I think it was an atrocious idea, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I will fight anti Muslim bias with every fiber in
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: my being. But there aren't Jewish people saying kill all
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the Muslims. And there certainly isn't it. The Jewish government,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: if you want to call it that in Israel is
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: certainly not saying kill all Palestinians. And no one is
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: saying that the appropriate response to what happened is to
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: go to a Palestinian music concert and gun down their
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: children and burn them in their cars. So the level
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of savagery here is just off the charts. The idea
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that somehow my our synagogue I'm in here in New
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: York is a legitimate military target, Like do I need
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: to say how insane that is?
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: But if they are, if they're considered a terrorist group. Great,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: as what you said, when when the world sees a
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: terrorist group, we usually go and try to find or
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: get that terrorist group. Right, how come that hasn't been
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: the same for this case or has it been?
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: It's a really good question. Env So, yeah, Hamas is
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: a foreign terrorist organization designated by the US State departments
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: of the governments. And yet I would say that the
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Israelis don't assassinate, kidnap, arrest HAMAS figures around the world.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: They don't do that. Maybe they should? They don't.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Could they usually do that for other quote unquote terrorists.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Groups in the United States? Has the United Kingdom has
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: for sure? Israelis don't do that. Maybe they should? I mean, yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the Israeli, I mean the Hamas. Like you know that wall,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the terror wall that's built in much of the West Bank.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: It's a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing. The Israelis
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: built it after Hamas did a wave of suicide bombings.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: If you remember this, they had people strap themselves with
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: explosives and go into cafes and dance clubs and go
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: on public buses and thousands of Israelis were killed in
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the nineties and that's why they did that. Sorry, it
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: was the early two thousands of the nineties. Uh, but
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you know, no, Actually I'm wrong. It was the mid nineties,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and it was in response to the Oslo Accords. It
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: was in a response that push for a two state solution.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Hamas doesn't want a two state solution. They don't they
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: say it, they have demonstrated it. And again, when you
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: butcher children, like when you behead babies, clearly you have
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: reached a point where you do not think the other
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: side are people. I mean, you do not think that Israelis,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: whether they call us Israelis or Zionists or Jews, all
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the same. You don't think they're people. You think they're animals.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: You think they're less than animals. We don't burn animals alive,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: we don't behead animals, we don't rape animals, we don't
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: do that. And I think you can clearly see through
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: their actions that they regard these they regard Jews as subhuman.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's also hard for us,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and it's probably hard for your audience. Like, look, it's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the year twenty twenty three.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why is it still happen?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got electric cars, artificial intelligence, we've cracked the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: genome code, we're trying to address climate change. I mean,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you don't think, you don't expect that there are people
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: out there who are so brainwashed and are so suffused
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: with hate. But you know, I wrote this book. I
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: was on your show talking about my book it could
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: happen here. And the point of the book it could
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: happen here was what happens when hate goes to the unthinkable?
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: And how can we stop it? Like, and the whole
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: point of the book was when you use this hateful rhetoric,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: when you demonize people, when you dehumanize them, it creates
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a conditions in which genocide can happen. And so whis
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: why we got to stop it. Why we speak out
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: against hate when we see it anti semitism, anti black racism,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: anti you know, Hispanic xenophobia, you speak out against it,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: because if you don't speak out against hateful comments, it
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: can you know, a sort of like what would you
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: call like evolve or can move up the chain from
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: comments to actions to systemic systemic policies to violence to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: genocide and when I wrote that two years ago. It
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: was certainly based on things like the Holocaust, It was
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: based on things like Rwanda. It was based on what
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I thought the world had learned. And yet here we are,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you know, literally sifting through the rubble and counting the bodies,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: trying to identify the victims in a way which suggests
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: we haven't learned the lessons at all.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: What would you say to people who say that because
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: you said you've criticized the iss before, Sure have MSNBC
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: I saw something yesterday said Israel's far right government fuel
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: tensions with Hamas.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: So what would you say to look at Kamas wrote
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: their charter in nineteen eighty seven. Nineteen eighty seven last year,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the Israeli government was a coalition. It's a coalition government.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: They had Jews and Muslims in the government. They hadn't
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: they had gay and straight and conservative and liberal. This
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: government is certainly more conservative, more right wing than that one.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is Hamas didn't change
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: their charter when they were you know, Palestinian Arabs in
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the Israeli government. So I don't think it matters who's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: in the Israeli government. BB in Yahoo in the government Hamas,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see so I do. I'm not gonna
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: do what they do regardless.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Hamas is going to do what they do regardless. Hamas's
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: charter hasn't changed. So it's certainly true that, like I
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: have been, someone who's been pushed the Israeli government for
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: years to negotiate with the Palestinian authority to try to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: find ways, try to explore, try to use their kind
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: of political and moral imagination to find ways to bridge gaps.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Because again I meant what I said before, but two
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: state solution. But when the when I see no public
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: demonstrations in the Arab capitals, when I see no words
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: from the Palestinian leadership, when I see them in fact,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: celebrating and hooting and hollering and giving out candies, it
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: feels like they don't want a two state solution. They
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: want a final solution. And the final solution is the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: term that Hitler used to describe what he wanted for Europe,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: which was to exterminate all the Jews. And what we
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: saw happen this weekend in Israel was an extermination of
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the Jews. And so for Jewish people like me who
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: lived just two generations from genocide. Is this is you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a book. This isn't some abstraction, This is reality.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Is it true when they say that the far right
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: government in Israel has escalated military occupations over Palestinians in
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the name of Jewish supremacy.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Look, so a couple of things. First, there's gods in
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the West Bank. So let's break it down what the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: difference is. So, first you have the West Bank. The
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: west Bank is the area that's controlled by the Palestinian authority.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: There is a strong as military presence. They're still in
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: parts of it. There's area there are different areas, they're
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: designated areas A, B, and C. There are parts of
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the west Bank that Israel doesn't go in at all.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: There are parts that are totally controlled by the PA.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: There are parts that are controlled by the Israelis. And
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: it's true that the net and Yahoo government has allowed
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: for the building of settlements and parts of those area
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that are infuriating to Palestinians because they can't build the
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: same way. And again, hopefully when there is a two
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: state solution or there is some motor of peace like
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: that area is going to be controlled by the Palestinians,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: so they can live with dignity and equality. So there's
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: no question that policies of the current government in Israel
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: have done nothing to strengthen the opportunity for peace in
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that part of the land. Then there's Gaza, Gaza that
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Hamas controls. Gaza, Israelis withdrew from in two thousand and seven.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: The Israelis used to have settlements there. They used to
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: be Idf presence there. They're gone. Like when I say
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: they're gone, there isn't a single Israeli in that ship
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of land, not one zero. That's part of why there
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: was this intelligence fail because no Israelis there. The Israelis
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: do control the borders into Gaza, as does Egypt. So
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Gaza is bordered by Israel and Egypt. So now it's
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: true again the Israelis control the flow of things into Gaza,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: like cement and supplies. Why do they do that because
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: there are that the Kamas will use cement and supplies
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: to build arms. Turns out that's true, but they control that,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: so do the Egyptians. Again, it's not just the Israelis,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: it's the Egyptians too. But this far right government, the
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: BB government has continued to supply electricity to allow supplies
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: to flow, and they have allowed for permits for Palestinian
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: workers to come into Israel. Like I don't know if
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: you know this or not, but Palestinian workers come into
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Israel from Gaza every single day, thousands of them. And
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: they do this in order to allow these people to
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: make money and have a decent living.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Well, they say, they say, the BB government. You know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: they do home demolitis and violent expulsions of people in
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: math killings and military raids on refugee camps. And I
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: hear people trying to use that at the justification for
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: what happened, which I think is they're saying.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's no justification for raping women, butchering children period.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: So what happens in the West Bank, they do do
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: home demolitions of a home where it's someone who goes
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: in and commits a terrorist act. They do that. They
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: do that. They don't do mass killings. That's just not true.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: That isn't true at all. Now, they may go into
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: arrest and kill someone who is a terrorist who's committed
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: an act against Israeli civilians. They do do that, for sure,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: But these things aren't true, and they don't do anything
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: in Gaza, so it's hard to It feels like victim blaming.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: It feels like saying, you know, oh, it's the Jews.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm seeing this people saying it's Israel's fault
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that their people were murdered, it's Israel's fault that their
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: children were kidnapped. And I just think victim blaming is disgusting.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It's despicable, especially while we're still burying the bodies.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And history less hamas, like, just read it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's right here. They're not hiding it, like, you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: good for them, Good for them for not hiding it,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Good for them for making sure we all understand. But
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: bad on us for not taking it more serious.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: You think the US is doing enough?
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: No, what do you think that? I mean? I will
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: say President Biden's words were strong, and they were meaningful,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and they were important, and I think that the other
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: European countries have been good. And I think, by the way,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: like in Congress, you know, I think I'm not always
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: a fan of some of these politicians, but I think
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: both on the right and the left, they've gotten it right.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders said he thinks Israel seeds on gods is
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: a serious violation of international law.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I would say to Bernie as soon as
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: the I mean, I don't know what Bernie said in
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: response to the savagery that happened. I don't know. I'm sure,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I would think he criticized it.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I hope so.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: But I think there's a way to end this. What
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: did he call it this?
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: He said, it's a serious violation of Israel seeds on siege.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think number one Bernie Sanders should use
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: every time he talks about Israel, shoud talk about Egypt
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: because Egypt barricades blockades that place too. By the way,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: why does Egypt Because they don't want Hamas terrorists in
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Egypt either. But number two Bernie Sanders should instead of criticizing,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: he should propose, how do we end this? Agent guys
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: that give all the hostages. Let all the hostages out.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Hamas announced they're ready for peace negotiations with Israel and
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: ready to accept its existence. That would end this like that.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: But if they're not willing to do that, I don't
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: know what he thinks the Israeli should do. Does he
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: think that the Israelis So if he doesn't think the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Israeli should cut off the supplies, what does he think
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: they should do? Does he think they should go find
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: a Palestinian concert and rape their children? Does he think
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that the Israeli should the Palestinian terrorists? I shouldn't say Palestinian,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the Hamas terrorists. The Hamas terrorists went into these towns
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: and went house to house and murdered entire families. We
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: have the videos. So you think you said the Israelis
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: call house to house in God and murder entire families.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Of course not. Should the Israelis go in find some
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Israeli find good luck finding a music concert in Gaza
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: since they don't allow it. But should the Israelis go
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: murder teenagers? Of course not? Like So, what the Israelis
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: need to do is to create pressure to get Hamas
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: to release the hostages and to realize they have to
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: live with their Jewish neighbors.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: So you said the US should do more?
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: What could the US could do? So? I would like
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: right now to make sure if Hamas is a foreign
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: terrorist organization like you were asking Envy, like there should
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't allow people to provide supplies or support for
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Hamas we should give We should pressure Cutter where these
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: people are living, all the leadership to extradite those people
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to Israel so they can stand trial for their crimes.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: We have a big military base and Cutter their quote
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: unquote an Ally, there are also Hamas leadership in Turkey.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: We should pressure our allies in Turkey to have those
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: people stand trial. We should make sure that there's not
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: a single sent from anywhere and that goes to Hamas coffers.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And finally, Iran. We need to be a lot tougher
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: on Iran because Iran, if you cut off Iran and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: you cut off the flow of money, it would force
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Kamas to realize they have to work with their neighbors,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: you know, and can't try to mutilate and murder them.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: So I think I'd like to see our country do
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: more to quell the flow of money and arms and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: ideas from Iran to Ramas.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I got a couple more questions.
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: You know, they've been putting this thing out on social
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: media where it says sixty four hundred Palaceinians and three
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: hundred Israelis have been killed, not counting the recent fatalities
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: have been killed since two thousand and eight. Who's responsible
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: for that? Is that Hamas? Is that Israeli government? Like,
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: who's responsible for that?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Well, look, it's hard for me to talk in the abstract,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: but like, this isn't a game. This isn't like, oh,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: we're scoring points here, right, Like, I don't think we
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: can think about this as if it's something we're watching
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: on ESPN. Well, who scored more points?
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: That's true, I.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Mean that just isn't a construct that applies here. It's
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: not about the number of people who have been killed. Although,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: just so we're clear, the death of any innocent person
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: is a tragedy. Like the death of any innocent person,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: any child, a child in Gaza, a child in you know,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: still Row. I mean, these are tragedies, but there is
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: something qualitatively and just like obviously different than again, a
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: terrorist with a machine gun shooting at families, right, and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: again the grandmother who was burned alive in her house
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: because she was too weak to leave. They burned her
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: alive in her house because she was too difficult to kidnap,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: and they filmed it. So like, again, I don't think
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: it's about scoring points. I think it's about recognizing the
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: dignity of every human life and approaching it on that.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: Bas I'm glad you said that because I'm sitting here
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: trying to figure out, why do you think, whether you're
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: pro Israel, pro Palestine, why do you think people try
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: to justify these attacks and people losing?
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Well, look, we should talk about that because there have
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: been rallies here in the US that are pro Hamas,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: like the the BLM chapter in Chicago and in LA.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Did you see like glorifying these people and saying all
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: these things that, oh, the resistance and this and decolonization
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: if you think decolonization requires you to like sodomize the elderly,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: like there's a special place in hell for you. So
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I like, and I'm someone who stood up and said
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: black lives matter, I said it on your show, Like
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I believe in these I think, like, why are we
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: even talking about these are basic principles that like, of
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: course our lives are created equals. Of course there is
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: systemic discrimination against Black Americans. And if you don't understand that,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you're not looking at the data and you're like divorced
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: from reality, but pushing for equality and justice for black people,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: pushing for you know, reform of a criminal, like an
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: incarceration industrial complex pushing for you know, the ability of
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: every American of access to vote however they want. Has
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: nothing to do, no relationship whatsoever to again, the savagery
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: that we saw in Israel and the people who conflate
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: the two who say, well, this is what decolonization looks like.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Like again, I'm sorry, but the level of moral degeneracy
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: there is off the fucking charts, use my language. And
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: so that's like I'm.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Having a bit.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm having a big problem with this. Maybe
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: you guys can help me, Like I can't. I can't
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: stand up there and say support Black Lives Matter when
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: they support the genocide of Jews, Like, how do you
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: guys deal with this?
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: Well, I would tell you that was one chapter black
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: Lives Matter Chicago don't think.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: That, of course not, of course not.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know if the whole I don't know if
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: Black Lives Matter National has spoken out against that yet.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I haven't. I don't know yet, but I definitely don't.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's just one chapter.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: You got to look it up, because like the Movement
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: for Black Lives which I think is the kind of
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: umbrella group, has also talked about actually, can you send
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: that to me? Dan? What did the Movement for Black
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Lives say? Can you pull it up?
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: Do you know Jonathan has to leave soon? Oh yeah,
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: I just had a question to you know, on social media.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you're you're on social media as much,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: but you see some of the big conversations with celebrities
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: not mentioning it, and wanted to know what your thought
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: about it when they mentioned Drake or they mentioned DJ Khalett,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: who's kalid As Palestinian and Drake is.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Jewish as well.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: So when you see celebrities talking about it, how do
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: you feel about it?
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I feel sad. I feel alone, Like celebrities didn't hesitate
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to say black lives matter, and they should, like just
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: so we're clear after the death of George Floyd, of
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: course they should. And you know, celebrities ran to talk
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: about and influencers and people like, I don't know exactly
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: what Drake or DJ college said.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: They didn't say anything. People saying that they never do would.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, So like I don't. I don't want to pick
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: on them in particular.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Celebrities in total, because they it's hard.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, as a Jewish person, when you see when
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you look, I've stood for Black Lives matter. I fought,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I fought to stop Asian hate. We launched
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the Asian American Visition. For goodness sakes, I'm I you know.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I co chaired the sixteen versus that march on Washington
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: with Wherever now a few weeks ago, and I have
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: proudly stood and we'll continue to with the NBA and
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the Urban League and LDF and all these groups. These
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: are my friends, and their cause is just, and I'm
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: not going to stop. But like the Movement for Black
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Lives the talk that justifies the genocide of Jews that
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: says Zionism is racism, anti Zionism isn't just anti Semitism.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I use to say that. I used to say anti
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Zionism is anti Semitism because dehumanizing Jews, right, or saying
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I love the Jewish people. It's just a Jewish state
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: that's illegitimate and needs to be destroyed. So I've said
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: for years anti Zionism is anti Semitism, But anti zionem
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: is actually genocide. It's an argument to savagely rape and
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: mutilate and murder people.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me with it.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like who can be so I don't understand. I
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: truly don't understand how you can say you're an anti
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: racist and an anti Zionist in the same breath. Anti
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Zionism is anti humanism. And just so we're clear, Zionism
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: is the idea that the Jewish people should have the
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: right to self determination in that piece of land. It
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: does not exclude Palestinians in that it doesn't say anything
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: like the Hamases Charter, that's all. And that's how you
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: get Arab Israelis and Israeli Muslims and Israeli Christians in
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the government survey in the IDF, And that's how you
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: get Ethiopian Israelis and Yemeny Israelis and people from all
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: ethnicities and walks of life in the country treated as equals.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Now is their discrimination in Israel? Sure, there is absolutely,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: And could Israel? Does Israel have to work to make
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: itself more perfect so that all people, regardless of their religion,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of their ethnic origin, are treated exactly the same, of course,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And yet it's the only democracy in the region, it's
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: the only place where LGBTQ people feel safe. It's the
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: only place where you can have these sort of interfaith families.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Look and while there are, there have been and will
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: continue to be. You know, Palestinian Muslims in the Israeli government.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: You think there any Jewish people in the Iranian government?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, they're not democracies with coalitions, let's just
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: acknowledge it. But do you think there's any like a
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Jewish minister in the Algerian government? And I'm not saying
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: that to make fun. I mean, there's a thousand year
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: history of Jews in Algeria. There's a I think three
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: thousand year history of Jews in Iran. But the rights
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: that people are affwarded in Israel is just qualitatively different.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: That's because Zionism is not an ethno nationalist exclusive idea,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: but anti Zionism. That justifies again, shooting teenagers in the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: back while they flee. I mean, that is barbaric, that
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: is sadistic, and it's just plain wrong.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: All Right, there you have it.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: The director of the Anti Defamation League, Jonathan green Black,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: For Can I just say one other thing, of course,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me the
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: chance to talk about this. And it's hard like you're Jewish,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: like this is the week when you should be reaching
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: out to your Jewish friends. You're Jewish colleagues. Like all
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: of us have family in Israel, all of us have
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: friends in Israel, all of us have people over there.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: And even if you have someone of you who doesn't say, well,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I know anyone in Israel, if you're Jewish, you're a
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: target today on the global Day of Jihad. So I
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: would say this to everybody watching or listening, like this
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: is a time to like reach out to people and say, hey,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: we got your back, We're there for you, because, like
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I can tell you this too, I'm not going to
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: stop speaking out for the rights of my black brothers
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: and sisters. I'm not going to stop speaking out against
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: anti black racism. I'm not going to stop speaking out
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: against other forms of hate. So you guys and your
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: audience being there for your Jewish brothers and sisters, you
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: guys being there and speaking out against anti Semitism and
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: anti Zionism, like this is the day, this is the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: moment to do it, because this is when it really matters, all.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Right, Jonathan Green Black, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys, wake that answer up in the morning
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: for Breakfast Club