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See New Metrics On Amazon Music · Buzzcast

• 0:00
  Kevin: Alban Do you know that we're doing the show right now?
• 0:02
  Kevin: Like, Jordans recording this?
• 0:04
  Kevin: not turned on your show voice. You're just like, Yeah, I don't know.
• 0:15
  Alban: I'm also over here eating like Cheetos flaming hot fries, so probably wouldn't do that if I knew you're recording.
• 0:22
  Jordan: Okay, so we're recording the shows right now and you're shoving Flaming Hot Cheeto fries into your mouth.
• 0:30
  Alban: Breakfast of champions.
• 0:31
  Jordan: Oh, god. Yeah, it's like, what? Seven o'clock in the morning?
• 0:35
  Alban: 7: 30
• 0:36
  Jordan: What are you, ten?
• 0:40
  Alban: All right, can we start?
• 0:48
  Kevin: You guys wanna play game?
• 0:49
  Jordan: I'm always down to play games. I love games.
• 0:51
  Kevin: Alright, Jordan, you go first. How many microphones can you name?
• 0:55
  Jordan: Oh, no. Okay,
• 0:57
  Kevin: What's this one?
• 0:59
  Jordan: Pod mic?
• 0:59
  Kevin: Yeah. What's this one?
• 1:01
  Jordan: Q2U
• 1:03
  Kevin: Correct. This one.
• 1:06
  Jordan: MV7...SM7B?
• 1:07
  Kevin: Yep.
• 1:09
  Jordan: Q7V5? That's a mic right?
• 1:14
  Kevin: No. Alban. Do you know?
• 1:16
  Alban: I know what it looks like in real life. I don't remember the name of it. It's one of those condenser mics.
• 1:21
  Kevin: It's the RT20. Alright, this one
• 1:24
  Jordan: ATR something, something maybe?
• 1:27
  Alban: LPR 40.
• 1:28
  Kevin: That's right. And then the bottom left.
• 1:32
  Jordan: It's funny, because I think you have this one. Kevin.
• 1:37
  Jordan: It's a road. Do you know,
• 1:39
  Kevin: I have the PR40. Oh,
• 1:41
  Alban: That used to be Travis's mic.
• 1:43
  Jordan: I don't know what that is. I know. I've seen it before.
• 1:46
  Kevin: It's called the Procaster. Anything about that?
• 1:48
  Alban: Yeah, that's a cool shirt.
• 1:50
  Jordan: Yeah, that's cool! It would be just called Mic or Mike. Yeah. And we just put up a
• 1:51
  Kevin: So I want to do a grid of nine different mics. And then just put like a Buzzsprout logo, like on the back up on your famous mic or a famous microphone, right? It's actually neck, and just bring like 100 of them to Podcast Movement. That would be really cool. And then play a little game at the booth.
• 2:02
  Kevin: Like anybody can get a Buzzsprout shirt, but you want to make sure you gotta name like four of the nine mics. And I thought it'd be fun to have like a little sheet of paper for anybody who's like, really doesn't know mics at all. Then they could like play the alternate version, where we have like, Mike Tyson and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson. They can just pictures of them. And they can just name five of those Mikes.
• 2:29
  Kevin: it's a combination of the two.
• 2:29
  Kevin: Kevin Right.
• 2:31
  Kevin: It's a game if you want to win the mic shirt. You can name the mics on the shirt or the famous Mikes.
• 2:35
  Alban: Yeah, I'm excited about Mic or Mike. I'm actually writing this down.
• 2:38
  Kevin: Mic or Mike to win the mic shirt.
• 2:40
  Jordan: We'll play that Podcast Movement. Speaking of which, we're going to be a Podcast Movement. All three of us, right? Yeah. So on Wednesday, at Podcast Movement, Alban, you're gonna be on a panel with some really cool people talking about how to maintain motivation while podcasting.
• 2:56
  Jordan: Yeah, who put that panel together, Alban?
• 2:58
  Alban: Fatima from Quill reached out, they're sponsoring like a whole, I think like a whole stage. And so they were putting them all together. And yeah, I'm really excited. I saw everyone who was on it. And I was like, Oh, this is going to be good. So I'm actually the moderator. I'm putting together questions. And I'm sure it's gonna be exciting.
• 3:14
  Alban: I'm excited to be part of it.
• 3:17
  Jordan: Really cool. And then on Friday, the Buzzsprout crews all getting together and we're going to talk about what indie podcasters are doing to rival the pros. I'm really excited about this one. This is a fun topic. So it's going to be you and me and Gilon and Sarah, who people might recognize from the YouTube channel. So that's gonna be a really fun one. And then a whole bunch of us are going to be holding down the fort in the expo hall.
• 3:42
  Alban: Yeah, yeah. Kevin's coming. Tom's coming. Our friend Reggie is coming. We're gonna have a big group. It's gonna be fun.
• 3:49
  Kevin: Are we doing any like meetups or anything? Happy hours, something like that.
• 3:53
  Alban: We don't have any planned I we put something together. I'm sure.
• 3:56
  Jordan: We should!
• 3:57
  Alban: The best ones we've ever done is like we just walk up to a bar. And we're like, Hey, we got a tap now. And we told everybody to come over here. We could collect like cell phone numbers or something. Or some way to like contact people.
• 4:10
  Kevin: Oh, it'd be like a pop up party.
• 4:11
  Alban: Pop up party! Yes!
• 4:12
  Kevin: So we could put a signup sheet at the booth and they can write down their cell phone number for pop up party. And then we will at some random time. Give everyone like 10 minutes notice. Pop up party.
• 4:21
  Alban: I'll be honest, if somebody put Give me your cell phone number for a pop up party, I would not put myself number down.
• 4:27
  Jordan: I would have 1,000% but my cell phone number down.
• 4:29
  Alban: You're gonna get random texts.
• 4:32
  Kevin: Yeah, I would do it.
• 4:32
  Kevin: You're not putting it out there for everybody. You're signing up on the Buzzsprout sheet for the Buzzsprout pop up party. It's totally fine. You don't want to put your cell phone number down then you don't go to the party.
• 4:42
  Kevin: I mean, I'm not talking about you because you you're putting on the party. Yeah, everyone's gonna be there. So I think it's thing is pop up party thing, or do we just invent that? I'm sure it's the thing. It's gonna be a thing at Podcast Movement. Can you put like a QR code down and people can scan it and then join your Whatsapp group? Yep. For real Then that's it, scan this QR code for the pop up party.
• 5:04
  Alban: Alright, so we'll have a QR code on the table, we'll figure out a way to message everybody like to WhatsApp or some sort of like chat group, because then everybody can connect about not just the one or two like, Hey, we're going out and grabbing drinks. But if people want to get dinner together, if people want to go to talks together, hey, what talk are you looking at? Hey, would you give me your notes, building those connections?
• 5:24
  Alban: Because if you go to a conference by yourself, totally, it can get pretty lonely or boring. And it's so much more fun to go with a group of people. And you know, keep up with them after the conference ends.
• 5:35
  Jordan: Yeah, that was what was really surprising to me was like how easy it was to get looped into like group chats and stuff.
• 5:42
  Jordan: I mean, I knew some people like from the Facebook group and stuff. So it was really cool to meet people from the Facebook group. But yeah, I was really surprised at how easy it was to get looped into chats, and then you'd like randomly get like a message like, Hey, we're gonna go out to dinner or like, you want to come or we're gonna go grab lunch. Do you need lunch?
• 5:58
  Jordan: It's definitely good way to do it. So yeah, if we had a Buzzsprout group chat kind of thing going on, that'd be a great way for people to not be alone if they're going by themselves.
• 6:07
  Kevin: Alright, so Podcast Movement plans are coming together. Right, so talks are locked in. We've got a game to play at our booth. We've got some new shirts coming and a good crew
• 6:21
  Jordan: So have either of you two ever been treasure hunting?
• 6:24
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Alban: No, but I definitely started once I read what you posted. I started going through this poem and trying to pull out clues and got some ideas
• 6:34
  Jordan: It's interesting to me that you guys have not ever been treasure hunting especially since you live in Florida you guys got like the like pirate gold and like the Spaniards
• 6:42
  Kevin: I have been treasure hunting
• 6:43
  Jordan: You have been?
• 6:44
  Kevin: Yeah a lot.
• 6:45
  Jordan: Like on a ship?
• 6:46
  Kevin: No.
• 6:47
  Jordan: Oh.
• 6:47
  Kevin: No, that's not real.
• 6:47
  Kevin: People in Florida don't really do that.
• 6:50
  Jordan: You never did like the diving stuff?
• 6:52
  Kevin: You do the geocaching.
• 6:53
  Jordan: Me too!
• 6:54
  Kevin: Yeah, that's treasure hunting.
• 6:56
  Jordan: We should go geocaching.
• 6:56
  Jordan: Yeah, I love geocaching. It's very fun.
• 7:00
  Kevin: Oh Alban's looking like you don't know what this is. You know what geocaching is?
• 7:03
  Alban: Yeah, I know geocaching is I've gone for runs and seeing people geocaching. I wouldn't describe what I saw as a lot of fun. I try my like, I following like the GPS coordinates to a location. And then it's like, look for the old pill bottle.
• 7:20
  Alban: Like oh, there it is.
• 7:21
  Alban: Jordan, I'm assuming to do this with your kids, right?
• 7:24
  Jordan: No! no.
• 7:27
  Alban: I knew it. Oh.
• 7:31
  Jordan: I actually really enjoy geocaching. Like when I go traveling and stuff like that, like go like different places.
• 7:36
  Jordan: Because typically what people do is they hide the caches in a spot that's really special in some way. Or maybe like a place that you want to go. It's a really good way to like explore city or something. I mean, it's not always like a pill bottle.
• 7:48
  Jordan: Like they have macro caches too, that are just like ginormous.
• 7:52
  Jordan: And then they have micro caches that are like the size of a pill. It's a it's really, really, really fun. But I was really excited about this X marks the spot podcast is a podcast about Forrest Fenn, who's that kind of like eccentric art dealer that hid $2 million worth of treasure in like a bronze chest. And he wrote a book. And in the book, it had clues to his treasure as well as a poem. And some like information about it. But this podcast X marks the spot kind of tells the story about that. And it's only nine episodes long, which is really nice, actually just binged it this week. And it's very, very well produced.
• 8:30
  Jordan: It's fun, fun, listen, so I definitely recommend it. But at the end of the podcast series, they actually announced that they themselves have created a treasure hunt within the podcast, they have $50,000 up for grabs as the prize for whoever can solve it. And it's really exciting that it's a digital treasure hunt. You know, you can be just one of those like armchair to treasure hunters. I went to the website and the admin for the website said that clues are dispersed throughout both the YouTube and the podcast, audio feed. And the clues in each are not the same, which I thought was really interesting because I went to the YouTube channel, and I thought maybe it would be video so there'd be like a visual aspect to it. But it's just like the static podcast cover. So I think that there might be discrepancies in like the audio between the podcast and between the YouTube Audio. And then they also indicated in a couple spots that there's clues hidden in their social posts as well. But I guess most of the clues to this $50,000 prize are within the podcast itself. And then they have a poem listed too.
• 9:37
  Jordan: Yeah, this is just like all my favorite things. I love riddles.
• 9:40
  Jordan: I love games. I love treasure hunts. I love podcasts like it's just like this culmination of very exciting things. So I have to admit I thought about this a lot more than I thought I would.
• 9:52
  Kevin: This is a marketing angle. Is that what I'm hearing?
• 9:55
  Alban: ]Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're getting everybody to go watch you on YouTube and listen to the podcast probably multiple times really closely. You know, this has happened a few times with different books. Yeah, that people have hidden stuff inside of the book, or they've hidden treasure and said, Hey, this book contains the clues. It drives up the sails because everyone's like, frantically going around. And then you see someone like digging in a random area. They're like, what are you doing, like, are trying to find some treasure for a book? And, hey, this is good, free marketing for you. So I mean, we wouldn't have talked about this podcast.
• 10:27
  Kevin: What did you mean, Jordan, when you said it was like a digital thing? Like you can solve this whole mystery just from sitting at home in front of your computer? You can solve the whole thing?
• 10:35
  Jordan: Yes, yeah, you can. So you can register on their website, I'll put a link to it in the show notes. But when you enter the treasure hunt, they will actually send you an email that has like a little bit more information and some hints to like help you along the way. But it's only open to people in the United States. Some honestly, like having listened to the whole series through one time, I'm super tempted to listen again and just see if there were things that like I missed, it's very, very fun.
• 11:05
  Alban: I'm in real time like researching stuff, trying to find what some of these references. Can I read some of this poem? And he's pretty good.
• 11:09
  Alban: "I know the keeper has three keys, but he keeps them away from me. Ever watchful Cerberus sees, let's hear closely what awaits me." If it's digital, and three keys, doesn't an SSL certificate have three keys, Kevin?
• 11:25
  Kevin: I do not know.
• 11:26
  Alban: I think it does. I think you have a session key private key and public key services, the three headed dog that guards hell, right? Yeah. Yeah, this is one of the things that's like very unhealthy for me to get interested in. Because like, I'm either going to be like, Ah, this is dumb, and move on. Or be like, Alright, so now I need to rip the audio off these YouTubes and transcribe them and then compare it with the podcast transcript that I write and, okay, what's the discrepancy? Is there a way to analyze to see if there's actually any changes in the video? Or is it really just static or is like stuff pop up on the screen for half a frame, you know, going line by line trying to pull it apart? I don't know. Like, it just seems like one of these things like you could spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on. And then you find out somebody else found the treasure and it was totally a direct path. And you're like, Oh, great. I need to go get a new job now.
• 12:18
  Jordan: I love stuff like this.
• 12:18
  Jordan: Like I've even done the home like murder cases and stuff like that and solve those. I'm just like a sucker for riddles and brain teasers and things like that. So
• 12:31
  Alban: Well, I think it's a super cool idea. I wish it was available to people outside the US. It's kind of a bummer.
• 12:37
  Jordan: If you're gonna play along, though.
• 12:40
  Alban: A little bit of a bummer, right? It's like you can play along with somebody else's get away in your $50,000 like, Okay, thanks.
• 12:46
  Jordan: I have to admit, I'm, I'm going to try to solve this myself. Do I think I will be the first one to solve it and get the 50k? No, but for me, it's kind of like more fun in the solving of the problem is gonna be
• 12:59
  Alban: like four months from now. Jordans, like becoming increasingly disheveled in all the videos and it's like, "I found it!"
• 13:08
  Jordan: I'm gonna start looking like that It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia meme of the guy with like, the cigarette.
• 13:13
  Alban: Exactly. Charlie, all the strings.
• 13:16
  Kevin: Yeah, Pepe Silvia. It's a great idea for a true crime genre podcast. Because all the people who listen like you're giving them an opportunity to solve a mystery to write like, follow clues solve Well, I don't think it is a true crime genre kind of fits into that right, isn't it? Like, I mean, you listen to the podcast, I didn't.
• 13:33
  Kevin: But I feel like a treasure hunt is kind of like solving it is not not like true crime mystery, but solving a mystery of where's this treasure? And so people who like true crime probably like this, people who like true crime probably like the idea of I wish I could follow the clues one day and like, here's an opportunity to follow some clues and not necessarily solve a crime but have a reward at the end.
• 13:53
  Jordan: Yeah, I think that there's like that element of adventure and outdoors. And there's also like a historical element to it. Because there's some references to like historical figures that might lie in the clues and stuff like that. So it's a little bit of everything. I like it. I mean, that's kind of thing is like, we love treasure hunts. We love the Goonies, we love Treasure Island, we love National Treasure. You know, like those movies are exciting, because there's like a thrill in figuring things out and like getting to the prize,
• 14:23
  Kevin: you probably have some level of success, even without the price, like just solving the puzzle. It makes me think like whenever somebody puts a big prize at the end of something like this, it makes me feel like you want me to take on this hobby. And now you're you're like trying to force me to take it on with this massive prize that only one person is going to win. I'd be more motivated to do it without the prize, like the prize is the journey, right?
• 14:41
  Kevin: That's going to be fun.
• 14:44
  Alban: So you're actually saying it's the fact that you're a US citizen is why you're not doing it.
• 14:47
  Kevin: I'm just saying like Jordan brought up the Goonies example, isn't that a great example? Like who wouldn't? Like if you had the opportunity to take a Goonies adventure like wouldn't you take the Goonies adventure? That sounds like a blast, right? I don't need all the gold and rubies at the end.
• 14:59
  Kevin: But if there are golden rubies at the end, and then I don't get them, that's a massive disappointment. And then I miss out on the fun of the journey.
• 15:04
  Kevin: Anyway, I'm just trying to say, if you have an idea like this that could work for your podcast, you don't have to put up a $50,000 prize, I think you could still make a fun thing that might work as a marketing tool, people still might just enjoy the process.
• 15:17
  Jordan: What if you do a treasure hunt? Like a digital treasure hunt? And the prize is the link to a secret bonus episode of your podcast? Yeah, that can be fun. Yeah. Alvin does not look enthused.
• 15:32
  Alban: Nobody's tried to solve a riddle for a bonus episode of Buzzcast. Or I don't even know what to record.
• 15:37
  Kevin: This is what we're gonna do, we're gonna workshop this out Podcast Movement, you can join the WhatsApp group to get the first clue to where the party is. But you got to follow the clue to find another clue.
• 15:45
  Kevin: Another clue. And at the end, there'll be like one person that shows up to our party.
• 15:51
  Jordan: It'll be me. I figured it out, guys.
• 15:55
  Alban: Jordan. You were there in the meeting when we planned this.
• 16:03
  Alban: So Amazon Music has joined Apple and Spotify and Stitcher and Google by adding some more of their own platform stats. So there's all the stats that you know, Buzzsprout can create for you based on who's downloading files. But there's also some stats that are not super easy to be passed to the podcast hosts.
• 16:22
  Alban: And Amazon has added, you know, a bunch of those to their platform. So Jordan, can you tell us a little bit about what kind of stats we can expect from Amazon music?
• 16:29
  Jordan: I went ahead and connected my podcasts to their podcasters dashboard. And they're actually very basic stats, you know, they have starts place the number of listeners and the number of followers, which is always nice to see. And you can actually look at it for the last seven days or up to like last 90 days or so.
• 16:48
  Kevin: So what's helpful about these stats is they show followers and like listeners, listeners usually will probably tie pretty closely to the Download stats that you see in your Buzzsprout account. But followers, not something that we have. So that's cool. And now you can get it from Apple podcasts. You get it from Spotify. Google stitcher has some analytics. I don't think many people listen on Stitcher, but Amazon continues to grow slowly in the space and you can send any followers you have on Amazon. It's not a breathtaking amount of data. But it is something and if you're in the stats, it's another thing that you can add that when you're going through your data, you can check Amazon now. So that's cool.
• 17:20
  Alban: When players provide this, like podcast Apps Show this data, think the play through data is the most valuable that and the Hey 40 people downloaded it, but only 20 of them actually played any of it. Those are those two stats that I really want to see.
• 17:36
  Kevin: Yeah, but I think it's alright, though, don't you because Amazon represents such a small number, like a small percentage of total plays right now, it doesn't even really matter. The good news here is that they're interested in providing some stats back to podcasters when you list your podcasts on their platform, and so I imagine as they continue to get more and more influence in the space and listener share, they'll probably add more stats.
• 17:55
  Kevin: Right now if they were showing you the play through data on the 10 downloads that you did through Amazon music. Again, it would be such a small percentage of your total downloads. I'm not sure how helpful it would be but I like that they seem to be moving in that direction.
• 18:11
  Alban: Vengeance is new movie that comes out today. The first time that BJ Novak has directed something.
• 18:17
  Kevin: He never directed any of The Office episodes?
• 18:19
  Alban: He was one of the writers.
• 18:21
  Jordan: He actually was a director on a couple on like five different shows. But it's his directorial debut for film I believe. Even though everyone's saying it's the directorial if you go to his IMDb it's he's got bunch
• 18:34
  Alban: That's like a pretty niche like announcement. Ooh, isn't my directorial debut of a film that he's directed like a ton of hit TV shows. It's not like the office is some obscure nobody's ever heard of it. But keep he's probably a pretty good director.
• 18:48
  Kevin: I think that's what builds the excitement is that people who have seen him on TV and they liked the episodes of the television episodes that he's directed there, like now you can watch that same style in film. That's the excitement. I don't think it's like an accolade.
• 19:00
  Alban: He's playing a guy from New York who's investigating the death of a girl he was dating or interested in or something. And she has died in West Texas and he is a podcaster and he is traveling around interviewing people and probably doing show reads for Blue Apron and Casper mattresses along the way.
• 19:19
  Kevin: I thought I thought the trailer was like good and bad.
• 19:22
  Kevin: There was moments where I was like, Oh, this could be a really good show. It looks promising.
• 19:24
  Kevin: And then there's parts of the trailer that looks really hokey and terrible.
• 19:28
  Jordan: You know, it's funny because the reviews that I've seen have been very mixed about this movie. So I think it's one of those things where like, I'm gonna have to see it for myself and maybe just not look at it through like a critical lens but more is just like a bit of like a dark comedy or something like that. I get the feeling that there is some like humor in it that is not quite landing for some people, but maybe seeing it through the lens of a podcaster I'm sure that there's some things that might be a little bit more funny to me than it would be to someone who doesn't know anything about it.
• 19:58
  Alban: This may not be a flattering portrayal of podcaster may be like a person who's a podcaster and thinks they're a journalist and thinks they can solve a murder. But instead, they just get themselves into more trouble than they mess up law enforcement. We don't know what there's gonna be a positive portrayal.
• 20:11
  Jordan: Based on what I saw. I'm kind of curious if he is portraying, like a characterization of Payne Lindsey from Up and Vanished.
• 20:18
  Jordan: There's there's just like certain things that remind me a lot of Payne Lindsey so I'm interested to see if he is sort of poking fun at that kind of podcasting journalist.
• 20:31
  Alban: I think that's just a very attractive thing to write into a story because one, it's like, completely absurd. And it comes across as like a little egotistical like, Oh, you think you're gonna solve this case, but then it keeps happening that people are getting out of jail or like cases are actually being solved. And like investigative journalists have done for a really long time is they're like, hey, there's something kind of weird about this case.
• 20:53
  Alban: And they look into it. And if you have someone who's smart, paying attention and reading everything for months, eventually some of them go, oh, I actually found something that probably law enforcement could have caught and they get something reopened and it kicks off somebody being released or somebody being captured.
• 21:12
  Jordan: It's really, really exciting when you're listening to a podcast, and then you get to an episode where it's just like, hey, update, there was actually like a break because like a listener recognized somebody from something. And like that listener reported it.
• 21:25
  Jordan: So I've actually listened to podcasts where they actually brought the story to the masses through the podcast, and then a listener was like, Wait a second. I mean, that's what America's Most Wanted. And Unsolved Mysteries did a lot to where they would like present the story. It's just kind of like a different medium. I used to be so scared of America's most moronic. Yeah, like the scary music, and it's like this person still on the loose as a kid, oh, just like, Oh, my God.
• 21:56
  Alban: So I have heard I don't know this is true that America's Most Wanted was actually highly influenced, like, who was on the list was highly influenced by people they thought they're ready to capture. So is actually like propaganda. I don't know if that is true in any way. I have heard that. It'd be interesting to look into. But also like having your face out there as like a terrible criminal. Like somebody works with you at Arby's, and is like, oh my gosh, that guy I don't like is a serial killer. I knew it. I'm turning him in.
• 22:26
  Kevin: It's got an 80% Rotten Tomatoes and 70% Fan score.
• 22:29
  Kevin: That's pretty good. Yeah. And the more podcasts show up in mainstream, like the better for the whole podcasting ecosystem.
• 22:36
  Kevin: So that's great.
• 22:37
  Jordan: I am really excited about this movie, because I do like BJ Novak. I love him as an actor, as a writer and as a producer, so I'm excited to see him do a movie too.
• 22:53
  Alban: Alright, so speaking of investigative reporters, solving crimes, did you guys read this article from James Cridland trying to solve the crime of people spamming? podcasters?
• 23:04
  Jordan: Yeah, he really set up quite the trap, which is very funny and very creative of him, James Cridland, he updated the RSS feed for pod news with trackable email addresses. And then he keeps a running list of the podcast companies that are combing through the RSS feeds to spam podcasters. So he's got a results list that is actually like currently being updated still. And we'll have links to that in the show notes. But this is a really interesting story.
• 23:36
  Alban: What happens is we put our email addresses in the RSS feed. And it's a way for you to validate like, hey, actually control this podcast and you submit it to directories. That's the main reason that it was put in there. The main use case is for companies to go through millions and millions of podcasts, grab all the email addresses out, and then send a bunch of garbage to everybody.
• 23:56
  Alban: And so what James did was he set up a totally different email, because everyone's sending stuff to like, whatever his you know, general inboxes. So he sets up this new one is his spam trap.
• 24:08
  Kevin: Yeah. So based on the user agent that's requesting the feed, he gives them different email addresses, which is pretty clever solution. So it's probably all lands in the same inbox. But if it's Apple podcasts that's requesting it, they'll get one email address and Spotify get another and overcast to get another and so then he can tell like which directory they're using to be able to pull his email address from
• 24:30
  Alban: Ooh, interesting. Yeah, it's clever. So what were the results
• 24:35
  Jordan: since he did the spam trap in May? It looks like the number one top spammer was backtracks. What's kind of interesting about this? When you look at his graph on the spammers list, you can see that majority of the spam emails were received in May and June, and then almost as soon as James can Hold out the spammers. You can see there's this definite drop in the spam emails on his graph that he's got going on. It's just almost zero.
• 25:09
  Alban: Yeah, you're right. May it just keeps escalating. And then in June, it just like totally cuts off. So do you think I thought there could be two reasons like one is yours, but I actually think is might be right that maybe people noticed it? And we're like, oh, we're gonna get called out? Or do you think it could also be that it's like when a new podcast feed comes out? Is this a new feed?
• 25:28
  Alban: Or is this just the he said
• 25:31
  Jordan: in May 2022, we amended PodNews's podcast RSS feed to produce a near infinite amount of trackable email addresses as a kind of spam trap.
• 25:40
  Kevin: That's interesting, because I was, I knew where you're going with that album.
• 25:42
  Kevin: And I agreed with that theory.
• 25:45
  Kevin: Whenever I publish a new podcast, I seem to get more spam on the new one. And then it dies off after a little while,
• 25:50
  Jordan: I still get a lot of spam on my personal podcast email.
• 25:54
  Alban: So that could still be a way that this is like a newness issue. Like you're gonna have these trackers that are going around trying to grab email addresses. And maybe when they see a new one, they're like, ooh, new email address, put this on the like fresh list or something and send out a new collection. So it could be that since he was dynamically putting new email addresses in maybe he was getting more hits, but that seeming less and less likely to be now I'm think I'm convincing myself of years Jordan that maybe what's happening here is people saw it, and they're like, oh, gosh, I really don't like all this a cast. You know, reporting that's been coming out of everybody seems to be kind of piling on and talking about how bad they cast spam is. We've actually been sending a ton of spam from backtracks and backtracks is like, you know, let's, let's tone that down. So what were the others on this list?
• 26:43
  Jordan: So the other ones were on podium, good pods, pod vine, who actually did not have a way to unsubscribe for their emails to which James called out and then they later fixed and then Gmail and one that I'm pretty sure all the other podcasters listening this are familiar with wisdom app. Wisdom app sends copious amounts of spam email, I was actually surprised that they weren't at the top of the list and backtracks was, because I think wisdom is one of the top spammers in the industry right?
• 27:13
  Jordan: Now,
• 27:14
  Alban: this might seem pretty obvious to everybody else. But when I saw Gmail, I was like, what is what is Google sending?
• 27:21
  Alban: And, like, realize these are the domains that are sending the emails. And so this is just like kevin@gmail.com alvin@gmail.com Writing people. So as people are scraping a list and sending it from their personal Gmail, it's not like Google workspace is sending a bunch of like, hey, get your podcast onto this platform or something.
• 27:40
  Jordan: Yeah, if you scroll down a bit, he actually has the emails listed out if you scroll down, it looks like pod machine is also spamming a lot based on this.
• 27:50
  Alban: Yeah, there's a lot that are just like, here are the podcasts that are trending.
• 27:52
  Alban: Here's your podcast, and it's ranking in this chart. Here.
• 27:56
  Alban: It's ranking in good pods. That seems to be some of the top spammers. They're really just saying, like, Hey, your podcast is trending here. And I'm sure it's a way for them to kind of gin up a little bit more engagement on their app, or their tracking setup. And they're like, Hey, come over here and set up an account. And you can see how your podcast is tracking with backtracks or good pots, or how it's performing over here, we're gonna have to just say, we can't even have email addresses in feeds. If every time you sign up, you get one email from Apple saying, hey, please verify. And like one from Google, you get like two emails that are like, Hey, let's verify that you control this podcast. Everything else is like, hey, why don't you sign up for the service that you weren't looking for? And not that the services are bad, but the marketing tactic is definitely bad. I can't unsubscribe. I can't get out of it. And I didn't sign up for this to begin with.
• 28:50
  Jordan: Yeah, why do we have the email addresses in the RSS feed?
• 28:54
  Alban: The it's just for the verification, Apple used to some of the other directories used it so that you could say, you know, I submitted this podcast, but now I have a way of getting communicated to by Apple. I think that was the theory for why it's put in there to begin with. But you're actually signing up for Apple podcasts connect Spotify, you're submitting via an API through your podcast host. So we're actually finding ways around this anyway. I almost wonder How bad would it be if we just stopped putting that in there?
• 29:24
  Jordan: Do you think that there's any possibility of email addresses being removed from the RSS feed?
• 29:29
  Kevin: I think there is a possibility of doing that. I haven't read James proposal for doing it. But I'm sure it's good. I'm not against it, we probably will have to do it at some point. It's just the problem is the spammers, like slimy marketing tactics. And it annoys people. somebody knocks on your door at six o'clock when you're trying to get dinner ready, and they want to sell you whatever magazines that's what spam feels like. Until I'm like listening to a podcast. And there's an ad where I understand the ad is helping to pay for this podcast that I'm receiving for free or subsidized by the ad or something like that, like that feels like a fair exchange.
• 29:58
  Kevin: Or if I'm doing a Google search, and there's During the ads for something relevant to what I searched for, that kind of feels like a fair exchange, like I'm actively seeking out something, you're trying to be helpful. And there's some advertising dollars. There are models that feel less scammy than this. But it's just disruptive. It's pushy. And that's the problem.
• 30:16
  Kevin: And so I Liked this article, I like what James is doing. I think this is a good use of his journalistic power to try to shut some of this stuff down. So the problem isn't necessarily email addresses in RSS feeds, we might be able to solve that. But that's not really the problem.
• 30:27
  Kevin: The problem are people who are using that to do things that is just turn off for people. He had Ross Adams from a cast on pod land last week or the week before Sam, I think asked him the question about spamming. And I thought it was like, I don't know, like, you can listen to podcast, you can decide for yourself for me, I listened to his answer. He said, Yeah, we A B test lots of different marketing channels. And you know, if it works, we do it and like that we're actually cutting back on. But he didn't say we're cutting back on it, because it's crap and thing to do. He said, we're cutting back on it, basically, because it's not working. And it's like, well, is that really the brand image you want to put out there for people is that we'll do things, whether they're, they're good or bad, or they make people feel good or bad, or whether it's pushy or scammy, or spammy or whatever.
• 31:07
  Kevin: If it works, we'll do it. Like, that's what I took away from that interview. So if that's the type of company that you want to be fine, go ahead. There are many of those companies all over the world. And if people want to work with those companies then Have at it, you know, we're not going to do that. I was disappointed to see good pods on there. Hopefully, they learned a lesson about doing stuff like that, because good pods is a good company with good people, like don't hurt your reputation in that way. But everybody else on that list, like they kind of are garbage companies. It doesn't surprise me that I see garbage marketing tactics from garbage companies.
• 31:39
  Alban: So Acast may not have been the first people to figure out how to spam you. But Robin Williams may have been the first podcaster what do we have here?
• 31:48
  Jordan: James Cridland wrote up an article stating that he thought perhaps Robin Williams could have been the first podcaster. And he brought receipts. He had YouTube videos from 2000 when Robin Williams, who was an early investor in audible had actually created a show on Audible that you could download. And they had this like tech that would go along with it. So he was actually doing rounds on these talk shows in early 2000. And it's so funny to watch these videos, because it's him saying like, well, it's an mp3 and it's a show and I have like this celebrity on and we talked about this. And the hosts are just like so confused. Like I don't understand, what would you do with this. And so he's like, trying to explain to them how downloading audio to your device works. And it's just it's really fun to watch. So, there's some interesting things that James Cridland brings up in this article.
• 32:46
  Alban: The first experience I had with the story was James put out a like a little sarcastic tweet, he found something on Audible and was like, maybe Robin Williams was the first podcaster and he's like, What is this kinda like? Well, great, another person who says the first podcaster and then started researching it. And when I've watched these clips, and I read this article, what Robin Williams was doing in 2000 is more like what I would say, is a podcast than what is happening on a lot of YouTube channels that I call podcasts. It's missing these like technical things like a lot of the argument now is about like technicalities, like, Oh, does it have to be distributed an RSS feed with an audio enclosure?
• 33:27
  Alban: And like it wasn't using an RSS feed and audio enclosure? So if that's your definition, no, it doesn't work. But these are Robin Williams talking to celebrity friends in these kind of like uncut interviews, and they're having fun. And you can download the audio. And you can play it on your device. And you can listen to it, you can subscribe to it. So that is automatically downloaded. And the way he's talking about it sounds exactly like a podcast, even the reasons like oh, well I can connect better to the audience. It's longer form. I don't have to try to fit the radio style. It's uncensored, and I have complete control. I'm like, This sounds like the stuff that we hear at Podcast Movement here. And 22 years later, it was almost kind of surreal. And it's like everybody's so much younger in the videos. It's actually pretty cool.
• 34:16
  Alban: Yeah, you know what it reminded me of? I don't know the whole backstory. But do you remember the Jerky Boys?
• 34:22
  Alban: What are the Jerky Boys?
• 34:24
  Kevin: The Jerky Boys were these guys who did prank phone calls.
• 34:27
  Kevin: And they did all these silly voices. They'd call random people they'd call restaurants they'd call whatever businesses and they would do these really funny bits
• 34:35
  Alban: Like Crank Yankers or whatever.
• 34:36
  Kevin: Yeah, kind of like that.
• 34:36
  Kevin: And this was like, I must have been in middle school when people would get Jerky Boys cassette tapes that started as a very viral underground thing.
• 34:47
  Kevin: Somebody would have a tape and you'd listen to and it's hilarious and you would double it. You'd make a copy of that tape and then you'd make copies for your friends and you were spreading this stuff around because they were they might have been they want to work for a radio station or something like that. But I think they started just like completely on their own. And they made copies of these tapes for their friends. And then those friends made copies for their friends.
• 35:07
  Kevin: And then I think they got picked up and I got a radio gig. And then at some point, they actually got a deal. And they got CDs. But it started like on cassette tapes, copies of cassette tapes that were being spread around. And before that, there were ham radio operators, and everyone that has wanted to, like, have a show have a radio show, right? Like, how do I do this just as a normal person, I don't work for a radio station, how do I create audio content and share it with the world. And whether that your solution to that was ham radio operator, or whether your solution to that was, I'm just going to record myself to a cassette tape and make copies for my friends, or your solution was Robin Williams, you know, knew somebody at Audible and recorded himself talking with other celebrities. And they published that through audible somehow, I think the beginnings of podcasting, just go back forever. And you'll always probably be able to find somebody further back who did something similar, which is fun to explore the rich history of that. But I don't really understand our podcasters who get all uptight about who is the official first podcaster. Like, who really cares. I just think it's really fun and interesting to see that there's roots like to what we're doing now, like the roots go back so deep. And so that's really fun and interesting.
• 36:11
  Alban: Did you ever watch this documentary about the origins of Who let the dogs out know the song who looked up? From the Baja boys?
• 36:19
  Kevin: That was for the Chihuahua movie, right?
• 36:21
  Alban: It was in the Chihuahua movie. It was a hit song, and you know, about 2000 or 99, or something. And this guy, a comedians, like, oh, there was actually a bunch of lawsuits about who wrote the song. And then he starts going back farther and farther. He's like, oh, this person claims they wrote the song. And then he goes back, and he talks to them. And he's like, but then it actually seems like somebody else claimed it, and then somebody else and he keeps going back further and further and further. And it's just ridiculous. Like, he's going from 99 to 96 to 95 to 94.
• 36:52
  Alban: And then there's someone in 88.
• 36:57
  Alban: And it just keeps going. It's like, it's one of these things like you're like, okay, the story's over now. And then there's some prior version, that slightly different, you know, some things just seemed like there wasn't really something totally like this until it's happened for the first time. But other trends like you can just see the threads for dozens and dozens of years, and it kind of is materializing into its final form. And podcasting feels like that in 2006, like iTunes ads podcast, and that's a huge moment, but then you're like, well, 2004 there's people are podcasting. And actually 2001 We have Adam curry and Dave Weiner, like trying to put audio into the enclosure, probably it's like two dozen ones, the beginning of podcasting. And now we're seeing man Robin Williams was doing something seemed a lot like a podcast, and then rob Greenlee over at Lipson popped up and was like, if that counts as a podcast, I was doing this other thing and 99 that kind of counts. And I don't know if it's like the world's most interesting conversation to argue about who is like technically number one, but it is a really cool piece of history to see, oh, this has actually been materializing. For a long time. Maybe the Jerky Boys were number one candidate.
• 38:07
  Kevin: Yeah, I just looked at Wikipedia. They started in the 70s. Yes. Okay. So we need to
• 38:11
  Alban: reach out to a bunch of journalists, we found diverse podcasters the Jerky Boys,
• 38:17
  Jordan: I think with that train of thought we're gonna wind up at the Gutenberg Press. If you're gonna go back, like, like a cassette, this link to this is linked to that.
• 38:29
  Kevin: Yeah, I mean, I agree that Dave and Adam were the two guys who put the technology together that gives us the podcasting that we know today, right, like a digital audio file distributed through an RSS enclosure. That's what we know, is podcasting today, but even today, the definition of that is continuing to get stretched and expanded, like is a YouTube show. That's just you know, two or three people talking about microphones is that a podcast a lot of people say it is. And that's not distributed with an RSS feed and enclose your tag and all that other kind of stuff. So who really cares?
• 38:58
  Kevin: What's interesting here is like all the fun versions of the history and not only like where it started, whether it be cassette tape or ham radio, or, you know, whatever slate and chisel all the way through like in the future, what could it possibly become?
• 39:13
  Alban: I would like to be clear that the only thing that actually seems a lot like a podcast that's before the RSS is this Robin Williams thing, like all the style is there. The conversations there, unedited.
• 39:25
  Alban: The point is that I can do it and there's no gatekeeper on a radio station. There's no regulation over this thing so I could totally be myself interviewing.
• 39:35
  Alban: Well, the Jerky Boys fit that mold too.
• 39:37
  Jordan: Subscribing for automatic downloads...
• 39:39
  Alban: Subcribing for automatic downloads.
• 39:41
  Kevin: The Jerky Boys didn't have subscriptions.
• 39:42
  Alban: If a new jerky boy cassette drop, Kevin would drive into your house.
• 39:47
  Kevin: It was a big day in middle school when somebody had a new Jerky Boys tape telling you and then all your friends had to bring you blank tapes so like because they're like make me a copy. I'm like bring me a blank tape. I'll make you copy.
• 39:58
  Alban: Is this is this real?
• 40:00
  Kevin: This is real. This is how we used to do it.
• 40:03
  Jordan: He was running like a Jerky Boys ring.
• 40:06
  Kevin: Yeah, I never even thought to sell them and never even thought to sell them. But I probably could have I could have been a premium podcast distribution model could have been the first
• 40:13
  Jordan: I wonder what the statute of limitations on cassette duplication is.
• 40:17
  Kevin: Yeah, I didn't think about that.
• 40:19
  Alban: Yeah. Jerky Boys V. Kevin Finn.
• 40:22
  Kevin: If I were smart, I would have gone to local retailers and I would have had like, let the Jerky Boys do a little five minute bit and then I would have done my ad for the local arcade.
• 40:30
  Kevin: And then five more minutes of Jerky Boys and then Kevin do an ad read for another local business. The ice cream shop down the road.
• 40:36
  Alban: Kevin's selling actual blue aprons. Yeah. "Do you have a white aprons, they get stuff all over them. But now with Blue Apron. You've got color hiding technology"
• 40:48
  Kevin: "Visit me at locker Bay 17 to pick up your Blue Apron today."
• 40:53
  Alban: It has to have an audio enclosure and RSS feed. If it doesn't have a blue apron or a Casper mattress ad in it, doesn't count as is a real podcast.
• 41:01
  Jordan: Not a podcast. Debunked.
• 41:11
  Alban: So Robin Williams might not have been reading advertisements in this possible first podcast ever. But if you've been using Buzzsprout ads, he would have been able to include some ads in there.
• 41:20
  Alban: Kevin, do we have an update?
• 41:23
  Kevin: Yeah, there's there's some big news where Buzzsprout ads...your transitions are ridiculous. Yeah, so let me give you an update, we are working on some new code for people who are creating advertisements. So if you're doing an ad for your podcast, you're gonna get a whole new section of reports.
• 41:40
  Kevin: And that is going to drop we're recording on Friday, this episode is going to come out a week from now. So it'll be out by the time that anyone's listening to this. So I'm just gonna go and tell you about it and hope that it doesn't get delayed. So what happens now is you place your ad and you get three air checks, which means we basically tell you three of the many podcasts that your ad gets dropped into, then you can click and listen to it in any of those three podcasts. But we've been hearing more and more that people want to hear, like all of them, they want Air Checks for everything and airchecks kind of a funny word, because it's in there for a little while, but then it can come back out of that episode. That's the dynamic nature of the advertising that we're offering. And so while your ad is running, if it's running in 20, or 30, different podcasts, you're gonna get links to all 20 or 30 podcasts that it's running in. And we're also providing the feedback now for like why some people have chosen not to run your ad. And I think that's the other valuable piece is that right? Now people can accept your ad or they can decline it. And if they decline it, we ask some questions about like, why are you declining? It?
• 42:35
  Kevin: Are you just not interested in it is the audio quality poor or something else, I forget what the third one is, but now we're going to show you that on your reporting page as well. So when you run an ad, you can see that, hey, it matched for 200 podcasts, but only 30 of them ran it. And 20 People said that, you know, they weren't interested in it. And but 10 of them said the audio quality was an issue for them. So if the audio quality was higher or better, or maybe it didn't have music in it or something like that, maybe you would have gotten in more podcasts. So all that information is coming in this new update. It's a big one, it's super exciting. That should be live by the time you're hearing this. The other big announcement is that podcasters are making real money with Buzzsprout ads, it's exceeding our expectations big time. And so if you're a podcaster, and you qualify, you should definitely give this a look, we've paid out now $100,000 To podcasters, who were just running ads with Buzzsprout ads.
• 43:25
  Kevin: So in the first five weeks, since people have been able to get access to Buzzsprout ads and run ads in their episodes,$100,000 has now been paid out.
• 43:31
  Kevin: So that's amazing.
• 43:35
  Alban: 100,000 is a lot because this is money that people were not making. So this isn't like, oh, you turned off some other ads feature. And you turned this on. This is in addition to anything that our podcasters are doing on their own. So people always could have been doing value for value or donation links, or using dynamic content, put in their own ads, or doing baked in ads or doing a Patreon, like all that stuff is still available. And that's not included in this number. This is all just the Buzzsprout ads, once you start getting to a few$1,000 to make some material difference in your life. This isn't like you know, $5 that you're like, Okay, you know, I'm going to buy like a happy meal or something like a few $1,000 that changes the budget for your family's finances. And things are getting really different.
• 44:23
  Alban: And the prospect of, hey, I really don't like the job I've been doing during the day and maybe this podcasting thing can become a bit more of what I'm doing full time. That starts making sense once you start getting into those numbers. And so it's very exciting that this is just a piece of the monetization for Buzzsprout podcasters. Five weeks in, it's very early, we have hundreds and hundreds of great ideas of how to improve it.
• 44:52
  Jordan: It gives so much more control and so much more insight to the podcasters that are actually doing the advertising and putting their podcasts promos into the other podcasts, they have the ability to make sure that the shows that are running their ads are a good fit for them as well, which is really good. That's something that they were asking for. And then with the feedback, the feedback, super helpful, but it's also anonymous for the podcasters that are choosing that it's not a good fit. So just so that people know, like, they're not going to know that this podcast said that my audio quality was poor, it's completely anonymous. And it's just kind of summarized for those people to observe.
• 45:33
  Kevin: There's two sides to this marketplace, right? There's the podcaster side who are running the ads. And then there's advertisers who are right now they're all podcasters running ads for their podcasts. And so when we launched, we really focused on, you know, both sides, but really focused on making sure podcasters had control of what was being played in their podcasts, that was the most important thing up front.
• 45:52
  Kevin: Now, we were able to roll the second side where we say, hey, advertisers also need control.
• 45:55
  Kevin: And they're paying for an ad spend. And it's going to be played in a whole bunch of different podcasts, we want to make sure that they have the controls that they need to feel good about the money that they're spending to run their ad. And as Jordan was saying, like, you're not only going to see the full list of podcasts that are playing your ad, but you can also pull it out. So if you say you know what, this person got matched with my ad, and they accepted it. But after looking at that podcast or listening to it, I don't actually want my ad running in there, you can just hit block, it pulls your ad out, and adds them to a block list. And now when you run ads in the future, you don't have to do that, again, they are blocked, as long as they're on your block list.
• 46:29
  Kevin: You can no if you change your mind down the road, you can always go back to that block list and take them off. But that's the type of control now that we're going to have on both sides of the equation.
• 46:38
  Alban: One thing I would like to point out because this wasn't obvious to me, when Kevin first told me how it worked, the Air Checks are only going to work while your ad is running. And I was like, Oh, why can't we just keep that so that everyone can listen to the your checks forever. And he's like, Well, because those ads will no longer exist. So once the ad has been run, we can tell you how many times there was played. And we can tell you a lot about it. But well, it's no longer in that episode. So if you were to click through, you would just hear probably a different ad. So that's why those Air Checks are there while it's being run. And while you can make a change. And you could say I don't like how this sounds, I want my podcast ad out of here, I don't want to pay for this. So you can make that you can make the decision to block them.
• 47:25
  Kevin: Yeah, we've also we're starting to move away from the term Air Checks because air check is traditional industry term for a host read ad, that's where you would do the air check because you gave a host talking points, and then they just did their own version of your ad. So you don't really need that when it's a pre recorded ad, you can listen to your pre recorded that whenever you want. Whether the ads running or not. What I was talking about is hearing it in context with the episode that you can do while the while the ads are live. But they come in and then they play for a while then your ad fulfills and they get pulled out. So you won't be able to hear it in context anymore. Once that is fulfilled, but you can always hear your ad we keep that on file.
• 47:59
  Jordan: Alright, that ends our show. So with that, thank you for listening and keep podcasting.
• 48:03
  Alban: Did you have any feedback from the Kevin Snopes editor that... did it make it into our podcast?
• 48:13
  Jordan: I don't remember if it made it in.
• 48:14
  Alban: No? I mean, that was a good bit.
• 48:16
  Kevin: It did. I think that was the that was an open wasn't. I thought it was the open but maybe it wasn't now the open was you given me harsh feedback.
• 48:23
  Jordan: Josh told me he was like, you probably really hurt his feelings. And I was like, I don't think I did. He's like you probably did. You probably really hurt his feelings. And I was just like, Oh, I didn't mean to.
• 48:35
  Kevin: No, you don't. My feelings are reserved for my children. So we don't have feelings on the show. You're fine. You can say whatever.
• 48:42
  Jordan: That sounds very passive aggressive.
• 48:44
  Alban: Sounds like your feelings got hurt.
• 48:46
  Kevin: No, I'm not. I'm literally like, as your children get older, you will start to realize that they are so mean, teenagers are so mean. And so my feelings are hurt so many times during the day that when I have any sort of other interaction with an adult, it doesn't really matter what they say, I've already been like, torn down to nothing. There's no more, there's no lower it go. I have no pride, or self confidence or anything. I'm just okay. That's totally fine. You don't like
• 49:13
  Jordan: I know you're trying to like assure me that I did not hurt your feelings. But--
• 49:17
  Alban: By saying that other people are ripping you apart.
• 49:20
  Kevin: I've got nothing left.
• 49:21
  Jordan: You have no feelings left and like you know and to build you up. Which is making me feel worse.
• 49:30
  Kevin: Your feedback was good.
• 49:30
  Kevin: We moved quickly based on your feedback, sent it off to the printer and ordered it. And I asked Alban I said, should we even show it to Jordan? And he said, Are you going to change it? I said no. And he said, Well, then don't show her.
• 49:44
  Alban: That's pretty good advice.
• 49:46
  Jordan: It's solid. Just don't, don't bring her into it.
• 49:50
  Alban: There's two types of feedback. One is, hey, I'm ready to make big changes to this. Let me know what you truly think.
• 49:58
  Alban: Another type of feedback Is this pretty much has to go out right now. And I don't feel 100%. So if you were to tell me something nice about it, that'd be cool.
• 50:07
  Alban: But what I get myself into trouble is when I'm in group two, and I'm like, Kevin, what do you think about this? And he's like, do you do a lot better than this? This kind of stinks. No, we don't have time to do that. He's like, okay, then why are you asking me?
• 50:23
  Alban: Like, we don't have time. I don't know what to say. You just want me to say this looks good.
• 50:26
  Alban: Yeah, it looks good, dude.
• 50:29
  Kevin: Yeah, I mean, sometimes you're trying to do the best work of your life. And sometimes you're trying to make a slight improvement over what you have, even though it's not the best.
• 50:37
  Kevin: And we were we were there. We were trying to get a slight improvement. So it's fine. What I showed last week was a rough concept of a rough idea. And Jordan said, stop pursuing that idea. Fair enough. We still had three days till it had to go to the printer. So a new concept?
• 50:52
  Kevin: Yeah, yeah, a new concept came together. And I showed Alvin and he's like, it's better than we have now. So let's go. Have you guys started thinking anybody looked at our show schedule? And see if we're supposed to be recording the week that we're doing the or work retreat?
• 51:09
  Jordan: Yeah. So we're recording to stay. Here's the thing is we are supposed to record next week?
• 51:16
  Kevin: Well, I'm just wondering if we are if we're on the work retreat while we're supposed to record. I wonder if that gives us an opportunity to do like a remote show.
• 51:23
  Alban: We could also do on a podcast movement. Yeah. Live show. Yeah.
• 51:26
  Kevin: Let's look at the calendar quick. Let's see, because we could meet somebody else there, maybe interview him having a guest on the show.
• 51:32
  Alban: I like that idea. I did that with POD land. We went and recorded the James and Sam. And it was nice to be able to be at the conference and in person doing a podcast recording it much better than doing the Zoom calls, or Riverside calls. Like I love that this technology exists. But it's
• 51:50
  Kevin: tough. Oh, I got an idea.
• 51:50
  Kevin: What's the idea? I'm so excited about it. All right. At this pop up party that we have, we set up a little recording area. And we do like speed podcasting. So anybody who comes to our pop up party can sit down in the speed podcasting, and we'll record to do three to five minute interviews.
• 52:11
  Jordan: But you want to say I mean, also we're talking about like a pop up party in a public space. I'm not editing our ambient restaurant noise.
• 52:21
  Alban: I think you have to accept the restaurant noise is part of the charm. I don't know if I want the is James have got podcast about Jane podcast. It's like a talk about you know, dating, relationships, politics.
• 52:32
  Alban: Yeah, we're talking. You're like, Oh my this why we brought up with this.
• 52:38
  Kevin: And I think what you want you want to ask them questions about what they're learning at Podcast Movement. Like, what's your best takeaway from today?
• 52:44
  Kevin: What was the best talk that you're Yeah, who's the best?
• 52:47
  Alban: What's the number one thing first Podcast Movement?
• 52:49
  Kevin: Or how many you've been to? Why do you keep coming back?
• 52:51
  Kevin: Why is this first one? How long have you been podcasting stuff?
• 52:53
  Kevin: Like,
• 52:54
  Jordan: oh, so it's not gonna be like a montage reel of like, podcasters being like, oh, yeah, I just went to this panel is really cool. Like, it's not gonna be like that.
• 53:03
  Kevin: You don't ask all the people all the questions you asked one person the question,
• 53:07
  Alban: Jordan, I loved it. You talked about how hurt Kevin was and how hard is it? And then as soon as the idea came out, she was like, this idea is garbage.
• 53:15
  Alban: Oh my gosh, terrible.
• 53:18
  Kevin: I'm not gonna listen to that. Jordan so concerned about my feelings. Is there like a book that teaches somebody about like the safe space that's created around brainstorming?
• 53:31
  Kevin: Because I would like to order that for Jordan?
• 53:33
  Alban: I would like for other people on this call to read that as well
• 53:36
  Kevin: get that all right. Well,
• 53:38
  Jordan: I love that journey for you but maybe not
• 53:42
  Kevin: my journey is not your journey Well, the pop up party is still happening.
• 53:48
  Alban: Oh yeah. Kevin and I are going to go rogue record like a few minutes get it in and we're just going to tack it on to the end of the episode of the post show is going to be the pop up party.
• 53:57
  Kevin: We're bringing a recorder with us we're gonna do it
• 54:02
  Jordan: I think it's cool to have like cool people on that like actually have something like really interesting to say,
• 54:09
  Kevin: Oh, you're gonna get some hate.
• 54:11
  Alban: I'll be honest, it's always bugged me Kevin that like Travis and Jordan they have like complete immunity? We're on the line all the time. They see what they want and they go number he could delete or they were you record themselves. I know Travis did it, I don't know if Jordans done that, record, splice it in.
• 54:29
  Alban: We're we're on the line. We say something stupid. Guaranteed it's getting locked into the episode.
• 54:34
  Jordan: I actually did try to do that once because I misspoke about something. But the thing is, is that like the audio quality, recording into Riverside is different than the audio quality of recording directly into Audition, Adobe Audition. Like it's just it's so much cleaner and more crisp. So it's like really obvious if I'm talking and then like all of a sudden like just the audio quality completely changes for like two words and then it changes again. I tried to fix something, but it sounded stupid. I was like forget it. So you have to worry about that with me.
• 55:11
  Alban: But the reason is not that you don't have editor immunity. It's that when you tried to do it, you went, Oh, I don't actually sound much better. The audio quality is a little obvious. So then you backed off.
• 55:23
  Jordan: It was just it was like a stupid thing that I like, couldn't fix. And I think I ended up just deleting the sentence altogether. It was it was like something like that just because it wasn't
• 55:32
  Alban: Case in point!
• 55:33
  Jordan: I delete out your stupid stuff all the time. Come on.
• 55:36
  Kevin: Yeah, that's true.
• 55:38
  Alban: No, I've listened to these episodes. Most of the stuff I've saying is