Transcript

Sharri | 22 May · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Good Evening. One of Channel nine's on air stars has
0:10
Speaker 1: revealed her former boss, Darren Wick, allegedly sexually harassed her
0:14
Speaker 1: in public, groping her and breathing heavily down her neck.
0:19
Speaker 1: In an emotional interview, the presenter spoke about how she
0:23
Speaker 1: was so distraught by the toxic culture under Wick that
0:27
Speaker 1: she raised it with a board member, but nothing was done.
0:31
Speaker 1: The star, who has agreed to tell her story but
0:34
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be named, said many female colleagues were
0:37
Speaker 1: revolted by Wick's behavior. She also claims that complaints about
0:42
Speaker 1: his alleged conduct were dismissed by a senior female executive
0:47
Speaker 1: who said that's just wiki. The revelation from one of
0:51
Speaker 1: nine's recognizable faces exposes the network to accusations that at
0:57
Speaker 1: the very highest levels it covered up or ignored a
1:01
Speaker 1: toxic culture that saw other female employees experience harassment by
1:07
Speaker 1: its news chief. Nine Chief executive Mike Sneezeby addressed the
1:11
Speaker 1: crisis engulfing nine in an all staff email today, where
1:16
Speaker 1: he said that inappropriate behavior in the workplace wasn't tolerated
1:20
Speaker 1: and that complainants wouldn't be victimized well. Darren Wick, the
1:24
Speaker 1: former director of News and Current Affairs. Left the network
1:28
Speaker 1: in March, claiming he was exhausted after four decades in
1:32
Speaker 1: the industry. Sky News has this week exposed allegations of
1:36
Speaker 1: his historical inappropriate conduct towards women. At nine and Today,
1:43
Speaker 1: a nine star took the courageous step of publicly revealing
1:48
Speaker 1: what she has been subjected to at the network. She
1:51
Speaker 1: said she was speaking to me to help with her
1:54
Speaker 1: healing process, but also to encourage change so that the
1:58
Speaker 1: next generation of women don't have to endure the same treatment.
2:03
Speaker 1: And the star spoke about the sexual harassment she allegedly
2:07
Speaker 1: experienced by Wick when he was intoxicated. She said, on
2:12
Speaker 1: the dance floor at the Gold Coast Logis after party,
2:15
Speaker 1: he was gropy. He had his hands everywhere, breathing heavily
2:20
Speaker 1: in my ear. I had to peel him off me.
2:24
Speaker 1: Any other man I might have kicked or pushed, but
2:28
Speaker 1: he was my boss. And she said Wick was often
2:32
Speaker 1: drunk and inappropriate. She said it was commonplace for him
2:36
Speaker 1: to drink heavily it functions, and he would often get
2:39
Speaker 1: in women's personal space. We were revolted by him. The
2:44
Speaker 1: presenter spoke about Nine's head of corporate affairs Victoria Buckan. Now.
2:49
Speaker 1: Buckan's role is Director of Communications and public Relations at nine,
2:54
Speaker 1: where she leads both corporate affairs and publicity, so it's
2:58
Speaker 1: not her role to manage or deal with HR issues,
3:02
Speaker 1: but multiple employees I've spoken to this week felt that
3:06
Speaker 1: her actions protected Wick, with whom she's good friends, and
3:11
Speaker 1: she was also often involved in managing talent well. The
3:16
Speaker 1: nine star told me today that Victoria Buckin's job involved
3:20
Speaker 1: working with the talent, including young women. She would brush
3:24
Speaker 1: aside any suggestion of inappropriate behavior, saying that's just wiki.
3:31
Speaker 1: I think she could have stood up to the sexist attitudes,
3:34
Speaker 1: but she was in cahoots with Darren Wick. She said.
3:37
Speaker 1: Planting stories was commonplace during contract negotiations as a way
3:42
Speaker 1: of diminishing talent and bullying them into submission. Management would
3:48
Speaker 1: then gaslight you, saying they had no idea how confidential
3:52
Speaker 1: details that only a few were privy to were leaked now.
3:58
Speaker 1: It was at this point in our conversation today that
4:01
Speaker 1: the nine presenter became more upset when she spoke about
4:06
Speaker 1: how she tried to raise the toxic culture at the
4:09
Speaker 1: highest level, but nothing happened. The presenter even raised with
4:14
Speaker 1: a board member how the culture was affecting her mental
4:18
Speaker 1: health and her reputation. And she told me I once
4:22
Speaker 1: spoke in confidence to a board member expressing my desperation
4:27
Speaker 1: that my own bosses were planting lies that were incredibly
4:31
Speaker 1: damaging to my reputation and affecting my mental health. There
4:35
Speaker 1: was no assistance provided by the network to source the leaks,
4:39
Speaker 1: stamp out the toxic behavior, or change the culture. And
4:45
Speaker 1: after the board level, there's nowhere to go. And I
4:48
Speaker 1: was fearful of losing my job. Through tears and clearly emotional,
4:55
Speaker 1: the presenter said she felt completely powerless. Now this is extraordinary.
5:02
Speaker 1: A high profile woman was brave enough to raise what
5:06
Speaker 1: she described as a toxic culture at the highest levels
5:10
Speaker 1: a director of the board. No action was taken. Now,
5:15
Speaker 1: the board of Channel nine is chaired by a former treasurer,
5:17
Speaker 1: Peter Costello, and I contacted Costello, Victoria Bucken, and Darren
5:23
Speaker 1: Wick today for comment. They haven't responded. This week, at
5:27
Speaker 1: Sky News, we've revealed that Wick was hansy with nine
5:31
Speaker 1: employees at a Christmas party that he engaged in inappropriate
5:35
Speaker 1: conduct at the twenty nineteen lo disafter party, that nine
5:39
Speaker 1: engaged an external legal firm to investigate a fresh complaint
5:43
Speaker 1: against him this year. The firm was unable to substantiate it,
5:48
Speaker 1: but the board felt it best to let Wick go
5:51
Speaker 1: given his past behavior, and yet he was seen back
5:55
Speaker 1: in the nine newsroom in late April. Nine Chief ex
6:00
Speaker 1: Secutive Mike Sneezeby sent an email to staff today saying
6:04
Speaker 1: that many of you will have seen external media over
6:07
Speaker 1: the last few days that draws attention to our internal
6:10
Speaker 1: processes and policies regarding complaints about conduct in the workplace.
6:15
Speaker 1: It is important for everyone at nine to know that
6:17
Speaker 1: we don't tolerate inappropriate behavior in the workplace and want
6:21
Speaker 1: to know if there is an appropriate behavior occurring so
6:24
Speaker 1: that it can be addressed promptly. Now. Wik's departure from
6:29
Speaker 1: nine after twenty nine years was prompted by the fresh
6:33
Speaker 1: complaint of inappropriate behavior by an employee in the newsroom.
6:39
Speaker 1: But when Wick left the company, he sound out a
6:42
Speaker 1: memo saying, after many long beach walks and even longer conversations,
6:47
Speaker 1: I know in my heart that this is the right
6:49
Speaker 1: time for me to step down and leave night. I
6:52
Speaker 1: don't want to use the word retiring because I don't
6:55
Speaker 1: know how to sit idle, but I'm going to take
6:57
Speaker 1: a very long break from what has been four decades
7:01
Speaker 1: of working as a journalist. He said, I'm tired and
7:05
Speaker 1: need a rest. A NINEES director of Television Michael Healy
7:10
Speaker 1: praised Wick's enormous impact, saying that his recent work heading
7:13
Speaker 1: up the news division came at a time of great transformation.
7:22
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to have more on this story tomorrow night.
7:25
Speaker 1: We're going to keep investigating it, including what the nine
7:28
Speaker 1: Board knew about any of these allegations. Also the use
7:31
Speaker 1: of non disclosure agreements. More brave women are coming forward
7:35
Speaker 1: every day. I'm going to have more tomorrow night. This
7:39
Speaker 1: is also the front page of the Daily Telegraph when
7:41
Speaker 1: it comes through. When it lands, I'll show it to
7:43
Speaker 1: you live on air. This story the front page of
7:47
Speaker 1: the Daily Telegraph tomorrow now. Also ahead on the program tonight,
7:51
Speaker 1: a report just handed down highlights the political nature of
7:55
Speaker 1: Labour's funding for its mobile black Spot program. Plus, terrorists
7:59
Speaker 1: glorify a Sydney bakery with her musk themed birthday cakes
8:03
Speaker 1: for a child's birthday. I'm going to have more on
8:06
Speaker 1: that in a moment. And Peter Dutton says he's open
8:09
Speaker 1: to cutting ties with the ICC after its decision to
8:12
Speaker 1: seek arrest warrants for Israel's president Henry Ogas. Would join
8:17
Speaker 1: me live shortly, but first let's bring in our panel tonight.
8:21
Speaker 1: Joining me former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and
8:24
Speaker 1: former Labor Senator Graham Richardson. Welcome to you both. Look,
8:29
Speaker 1: let's start with this disturbing story in Sydney today. Bakery
8:34
Speaker 1: is the center of a lot of media attention for
8:37
Speaker 1: posting photographs of what appears to be a her Musk
8:41
Speaker 1: themed birthday cake. My colleague Caroline Marcus broke this story exclusively.
8:46
Speaker 1: Have a look.
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Speaker 2: This cake was prepared by a Western Sydney bakery for
8:51
Speaker 2: a four year old. The child, dressed as a militant,
8:55
Speaker 2: appears to have had a harms themed birthday party, complete
8:59
Speaker 2: with balloons, drinks and cupcakes.
9:04
Speaker 1: Michael, this is a child's birthday party here in Australia.
9:09
Speaker 1: Is this appropriate?
9:13
Speaker 3: Well, now, of course it's not. It's disgusting and it's
9:16
Speaker 3: the type of grooming of young people you'd expect to
9:18
Speaker 3: see in Gaza. We know from the school books and
9:22
Speaker 3: other publications that have come out of there that these
9:26
Speaker 3: young kids are indoctrinated as soon as they get to
9:28
Speaker 3: primary school and onwards into secondary school, so that this
9:31
Speaker 3: has now come to Australia, this type of insidious grooming
9:35
Speaker 3: is a shocking thing and it just shows you once
9:38
Speaker 3: again what sort of far left fanaticism has crawled out
9:43
Speaker 3: from under the rocks as a result of what's happened
9:45
Speaker 3: in the Middle East. We see all these extremist views
9:48
Speaker 3: at demonstrations, at universities and now even at kids' birthday party.
9:53
Speaker 3: So this is a significant worry that this type of
9:56
Speaker 3: mentality exists in Australia. It is extremely worrying, Shari and
10:00
Speaker 3: rich O.
10:00
Speaker 1: That's the concern that we're causing even more not us,
10:05
Speaker 1: but that there will be even more division, even a
10:08
Speaker 1: further erosion of social cohesion in the next generation. We
10:11
Speaker 1: don't want the next generation to be bred on a
10:14
Speaker 1: diet of anti Semitism.
10:16
Speaker 4: No we don't. But if you give sucker and comfort
10:19
Speaker 4: to harm us and those who support it, then that's
10:23
Speaker 4: an inevitable result. And I really think we've got to
10:28
Speaker 4: take some very strong action. I'd be looking at the
10:31
Speaker 4: status immigration status of some of these people any way
10:34
Speaker 4: that we can get rid of them. We should this
10:37
Speaker 4: is having these.
10:39
Speaker 1: They're probably Australians. You can't kick out Australia.
10:42
Speaker 4: No, you can't kick out Australians. I understand that. But
10:46
Speaker 4: if you can, if they're not quite Australians yet, kick
10:49
Speaker 4: them out. That's all I'm saying. If they are Australians,
10:52
Speaker 4: then like, all you can do is make sure that
10:56
Speaker 4: on shows like this we can out. Just make sure
11:02
Speaker 4: that we get messages across that are decent, that are proper,
11:07
Speaker 4: and just overrule them. That's all we can do.
11:13
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I reckon the parents who bought their four year
11:16
Speaker 1: old a birthday cake on not watching sky News tonight.
11:19
Speaker 1: Maybe the best we could do is give them all
11:21
Speaker 1: a free Sky News subscription so they can get a
11:23
Speaker 1: bit of an education on anti Semitism.
11:26
Speaker 4: That wouldn't be a bad idea.
11:28
Speaker 1: Now there's been speculation around an early federal election. I
11:31
Speaker 1: keep saying there's not going to be one, and today
11:34
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister denied these rumors. In an interview with
11:37
Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand in the Telegraph. He said, I think three
11:40
Speaker 1: years is too short. What we're focused on is an elections.
11:43
Speaker 1: What we're focused on is the need to provide that
11:45
Speaker 1: cost of living relief. Our immediate task is to get
11:48
Speaker 1: the job done and to get inflation down. Michael, he's
11:53
Speaker 1: in black and white there saying that he is serving
11:56
Speaker 1: a full term. He's not going to go this year.
11:58
Speaker 1: Do you believe him?
11:59
Speaker 3: Yet? He can always change his mind. He wouldn't be
12:03
Speaker 3: the first to do that, Jarry. But no, I'm with you.
12:06
Speaker 3: I don't think there'll be in any election. There has
12:08
Speaker 3: to be an interest rate cut surely before he has
12:10
Speaker 3: an election. I mean, he can't go to the election
12:13
Speaker 3: without a cut in rates. If there's a cut that shows,
12:17
Speaker 3: he can then say, look, we've got inflation under control. Finally,
12:20
Speaker 3: things are getting better. Your best days are ahead of you.
12:22
Speaker 3: But it's got to be before the next budget though,
12:25
Speaker 3: he's not going to hand out another budget as sure
12:28
Speaker 3: as anything. There will not be a twenty twenty five
12:30
Speaker 3: budget before the election will be after. Why because Charmers
12:33
Speaker 3: are sort of well, Charmers is trying to make his
12:35
Speaker 3: name on the basis, Hey, I'm a superstar. I've had
12:37
Speaker 3: two surpluses before. He has to say to people. On
12:40
Speaker 3: the other hand, I'm a duffer. I've now got one
12:41
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty million dollars worth of deficits in the
12:44
Speaker 3: next four budgets. So he doesn't want that message to resonate.
12:47
Speaker 3: So he's got to run off the back of his
12:49
Speaker 3: two wins. So it's going to have to be before.
12:51
Speaker 3: It's going to be March April next year.
12:53
Speaker 1: In my opinionship, I mean they're still the media economic
12:56
Speaker 1: fiscal art. Look, that's usually in Decembar. There could be
12:59
Speaker 1: a minig budget, but my IFO means that those numbers
13:03
Speaker 1: you know, can't be hidden. Richo Albanizi told Joe Hilda
13:07
Speaker 1: Brown today that he's not going to go to the
13:08
Speaker 1: election until he's fixed the cost of living. But he
13:12
Speaker 1: might never call an election.
13:13
Speaker 4: Then to say it might be a long time before
13:18
Speaker 4: we see an election, I'll be a long time dead
13:21
Speaker 4: in that case. But look, I think Elbows, I think
13:26
Speaker 4: you'll go a full term or close to it. I
13:29
Speaker 4: don't think that he sees any great advantage in going early.
13:33
Speaker 4: You always get some resentment if you if you try
13:35
Speaker 4: and do that, and everybody likes Elbow, So why would
13:40
Speaker 4: he want to try and alienate any part of the unity,
13:43
Speaker 4: good fellow, He should just keep going to being elbow.
13:46
Speaker 4: That's all he needs to do.
13:49
Speaker 1: Everyone likes Albo except for probably ninety percent of our viewers.
13:53
Speaker 1: But yeah, everyone in your eye, in your world likes Aalbo.
13:57
Speaker 3: You've you've got to get out more. You got to
13:59
Speaker 3: get it out more, Graham.
14:01
Speaker 1: You got to spend some time studio. And you know what,
14:06
Speaker 1: I do think he'll stay a full term one because
14:08
Speaker 1: I've got it on good authority from very senior sources.
14:11
Speaker 1: But secondly, for no other reason. Then he wants to
14:14
Speaker 1: keep flying around in Toto one. He doesn't want to
14:17
Speaker 1: give up the perks of being PM anytime soon.
14:20
Speaker 4: Now.
14:21
Speaker 1: Labor Today has seized on the csio's latest report. It
14:25
Speaker 1: has painted a grim picture of how expensive nuclear would be.
14:29
Speaker 1: The report found that a large scale nuclear reactor would
14:32
Speaker 1: cost up to seventeen billion, it'd take almost twenty years
14:36
Speaker 1: to build, and it would produce electricity that would cost
14:39
Speaker 1: twice as much as renewables. Well, of course, Treasurer Jim
14:43
Speaker 1: Chalmers spoke about this today.
14:45
Speaker 5: Here is CSIRO has completely torpedoed this uncosted nuclear fantasy
14:52
Speaker 5: of Peter Dutton's. You know, nuclear costs more and it
14:56
Speaker 5: takes longer, and Peter Dutton won't tell us where the
14:59
Speaker 5: reactors are going to get. It makes absolutely no sense
15:03
Speaker 5: for Australia to go down the nuclear road.
15:06
Speaker 1: Michael. Is this CSIRO requirt a problem for Peter Dutton?
15:13
Speaker 3: Well, it's not helpful to him. But on the other hand, Shari,
15:16
Speaker 3: the CSIRO haven't got the credibility they had twenty or
15:21
Speaker 3: thirty years ago. They've been very politically active in the
15:25
Speaker 3: last fifteen or twenty years and it's always on the
15:28
Speaker 3: side of political activism. And we don't forget remember TENNASA
15:31
Speaker 3: years ago, that's fifteen years ago, they were predicting that
15:33
Speaker 3: every citizen in the cities was going to run out
15:37
Speaker 3: of water. They were saying the drought in Australia is permanent.
15:43
Speaker 3: Murray Darling basin was collapsing. They've sort of been on
15:47
Speaker 3: a global warming bent in the last ten or so years.
15:51
Speaker 3: Is it a surprise they've come out against nuclear power.
15:54
Speaker 1: No.
15:54
Speaker 3: I think they're probably much better authorities that know a
15:56
Speaker 3: lot more about nuclear power of the nuclear industry than
16:00
Speaker 3: the CSIRO, who've done a report on it.
16:03
Speaker 1: So is it helpful?
16:05
Speaker 6: No?
16:05
Speaker 3: But look, do people take the CSIRO as holy writ
16:09
Speaker 3: that they might have when I was younger, They absolutely
16:12
Speaker 3: do not, because they've been very much part of the
16:14
Speaker 3: sort of screaming cultural left on these environmental issues over
16:18
Speaker 3: more than a decade now, and they just don't have
16:20
Speaker 3: the credibility they used to now, Richo.
16:23
Speaker 1: I mean we've spoken about this previously and you've said
16:26
Speaker 1: you're open to nuclear you personally, you're open to nuclear
16:29
Speaker 1: being part of our energy mix. But the polling shows
16:32
Speaker 1: that it's still pretty unpopular. You know, around thirty five
16:35
Speaker 1: percent of people support it and an equal number don't
16:39
Speaker 1: support it. So the Coalition does have a big job
16:43
Speaker 1: ahead of them to convince Australians that this is the
16:45
Speaker 1: right path.
16:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, they do, and if they tried to do that,
16:50
Speaker 4: they waste an enormous amount of time when they could
16:53
Speaker 4: be talking about some things that might actually help them
16:55
Speaker 4: get into government. And so I don't think Dutton's that stupid.
16:59
Speaker 4: I hope not from the Liberal Party's point of view,
17:02
Speaker 4: because if he is, then I think Albow is just
17:05
Speaker 4: coasting through the victory. Again.
17:08
Speaker 1: Well he probably is anyway, according to you, because everyone
17:10
Speaker 1: loves the bloke.
17:11
Speaker 4: Disappoint he's a great fellow.
17:16
Speaker 1: Now, Farmer Labor Senator Nova Paris has resigned as co
17:19
Speaker 1: chair of the Australian Republican Movement in a stance against
17:23
Speaker 1: fellow CoA chair Craig Foster and his comments on Israel.
17:27
Speaker 1: The Herald broke this story, but Nova was on with
17:29
Speaker 1: Chris Keady earlier and here's what she had to say.
17:33
Speaker 7: I was quite disappointed with his with his commentary, and
17:37
Speaker 7: you know that his reference to maslaua of innocent Palestinians.
17:40
Speaker 7: You know, we should be upholding true and we should
17:44
Speaker 7: be upholding objective dialogue rather than semere tactics in inaccurate
17:49
Speaker 7: language around genocide and apartheid.
17:52
Speaker 1: Michael, this is actually devastating. Nova Paris has a huge
17:56
Speaker 1: contribution to make to Australian life. People might agree with
18:00
Speaker 1: her on everything, you know, whether it's a republic or
18:03
Speaker 1: the Voice referendum, but she shouldn't have to leave a
18:06
Speaker 1: job because of this.
18:09
Speaker 8: No.
18:09
Speaker 3: Well, now he's going, he's announced he's going, So I
18:13
Speaker 3: hope that's an opportunity for Nova to come back and
18:15
Speaker 3: take her position back. But look what an extraordinary interview
18:19
Speaker 3: she gave. I must say I followed her career but
18:22
Speaker 3: not that closely. But what an outstanding performance by her
18:25
Speaker 3: to resign on this point. Of principle. When this fellow foster,
18:30
Speaker 3: who's part of the hards that of left glitteraties into
18:33
Speaker 3: every sort of progressive cause, is trying to get FIFA
18:37
Speaker 3: to kick Israel out because he's worried about human rights
18:41
Speaker 3: and genocide and these things. Well, you know, as people
18:44
Speaker 3: have said to him, Craig, have you written to them
18:46
Speaker 3: saying North Korea should be kicked out of FIFA or
18:49
Speaker 3: Cuba or China or Russia. No, again, he's part of
18:55
Speaker 3: this group of people that sees Israel as the problem.
18:57
Speaker 3: Jews are the problem everywhere. Say to Craig, have a good, long,
19:02
Speaker 3: hard think about what you've been doing, my friend, because
19:04
Speaker 3: what you've done is disgraceful and you are on the
19:08
Speaker 3: wrong side of history. You know, whatever has happened in Israel, mate,
19:12
Speaker 3: it pales into insignificant since what's happened in China, where
19:17
Speaker 3: millions were killed under male North Korea et cetera, et cetera,
19:20
Speaker 3: et cetera. So he's picking on Israel for goodness sake, mate.
19:24
Speaker 3: You know, think again, what a disgraceful performance by you
19:27
Speaker 3: and a big tick to Nova Paris.
19:30
Speaker 1: Look, I don't even think you can compare Israel to
19:33
Speaker 1: any of those other countries. I mean, Israel is simply
19:36
Speaker 1: defending its citizens, defending itself after the most barbaric terror
19:41
Speaker 1: attack we've seen in years. Correct, Richard Richo, what do
19:47
Speaker 1: you think? I think Nova has been incredibly courageous in
19:50
Speaker 1: her defense of the Jewish people, her fight against our
19:53
Speaker 1: di Semitism. She's actually received an enormous amount of hate
19:58
Speaker 1: and backlash for it. Is standing so strong.
20:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a courageous woman and she's to be congratulated
20:06
Speaker 4: for this. And I think Foster should hang his head
20:09
Speaker 4: in shame. I think it's a disgrace what he's done.
20:12
Speaker 4: And good on Nova, Peris. I think she's fabulous and
20:16
Speaker 4: I think Australia needs more people like that and less
20:19
Speaker 4: like Foster.
20:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, all right, Michael Kroger Graham Richardson, thank you
20:23
Speaker 1: both for joining me tonight. Now still to come, Peter
20:27
Speaker 1: Dutton is not ruling out cutting ties with the ICC
20:30
Speaker 1: after its decision to seek a rest warrance for Israel's
20:34
Speaker 1: Prime Minister. Henry Ogas, the esteemed economist and colomist, will
20:39
Speaker 1: join me next. Welcome back. Well, I'm going to bring
20:46
Speaker 1: you now Tomorrow's front page of the Daily Telegraph. They've
20:49
Speaker 1: gone big on my story tonight, which I've written for
20:52
Speaker 1: The Telegraph as well on Darren Wick. They've got me too,
20:56
Speaker 1: scandal presenters Shock Logi's harassment claim against former Network News
21:01
Speaker 1: boss Nine's wicked ways. So that's the front page of
21:06
Speaker 1: the Daily Telegraph tomorrow, where Ben English is the editor
21:10
Speaker 1: and he's just sad that through to me. The full
21:12
Speaker 1: story is also up on our Sky News website right
21:16
Speaker 1: now now. Peter Darten has today said that he's open
21:21
Speaker 1: to cutting ties with the International Criminal Court, and this
21:24
Speaker 1: follows its shock decision to request arrest warrants for Benjamin
21:28
Speaker 1: Netanyaho alongside her mus. It's drawing an equivalence between Israel
21:35
Speaker 1: and terrorists. Now, I had a lot to say about
21:37
Speaker 1: this on our last night, and tonight I'm joined by
21:40
Speaker 1: one of the world's best writers and thought leaders, economist
21:44
Speaker 1: Henry Ergas. Henry, I'm so delighted to have you join
21:47
Speaker 1: me tonight. What is your response to the ICC Chief
21:51
Speaker 1: prosecutor who claims that he had reasonable grounds to believe
21:55
Speaker 1: that Netanyahoo and Yoav Gallant were criminally responsible for war
22:00
Speaker 1: crimes and crimes against humanity?
22:05
Speaker 6: Well, I was, like many others, I was very surprised
22:09
Speaker 6: by his recommendation, and I wonder what the underlying elements
22:20
Speaker 6: or cause of the ease. I think it raises any
22:25
Speaker 6: number of issues. Amongst other things, there's a question about
22:30
Speaker 6: whether the ICC has jurisdiction in respect of nat Yahoo
22:37
Speaker 6: and the Defense Minister, given that Israel has a fiercely
22:42
Speaker 6: independent and very effective judicial system, and there's an underlying
22:47
Speaker 6: principle that where allegations can be pursued through the national
22:55
Speaker 6: judicial system, that is what should occur, rather than those
23:01
Speaker 6: allegations being taken up in the ICC. And I think
23:05
Speaker 6: that's fundamental objection to this process, that what it implies
23:12
Speaker 6: is that in any democracy, the ICC could take over
23:18
Speaker 6: functions that really are best handled by its own judicial system,
23:24
Speaker 6: and could do so in the cases of Nitta Yahoo
23:27
Speaker 6: and the Defense Minister on ground being unlikely to meet
23:33
Speaker 6: the standards it has itself set for finding criminal liability.
23:40
Speaker 1: But Henry, aside from the jurisdictional issues and the issues
23:44
Speaker 1: of due process, you know, do you agree with the
23:47
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal that said that this would be like
23:50
Speaker 1: condemning Churchill and Roosevelt in World War Two for going
23:54
Speaker 1: after the Nazis.
23:57
Speaker 6: Well, it's certainly an important element of that. You just
24:03
Speaker 6: need to read the things Churchill said, including when he said,
24:09
Speaker 6: well we will basically bomb them to Smith areens. The
24:14
Speaker 6: point about it really is that in a sense, war
24:18
Speaker 6: is war, and countries pursue wars. Countries like Israel, Australia
24:23
Speaker 6: for that matter of the US get involved in wars
24:26
Speaker 6: whether there are vital interests at stake. And if you
24:31
Speaker 6: are involved in a war, the objective of the war
24:34
Speaker 6: is to win, and you do what is reasonably necessary
24:38
Speaker 6: to achieve that objective. That doesn't in and of itself
24:41
Speaker 6: justify war crimes. It obviously doesn't do that, but you
24:46
Speaker 6: have to be very careful to ensure that you're being scrupulous.
24:55
Speaker 1: Yes, and there's no evidence, of course that Israel has
24:59
Speaker 1: committed any crimes at all. In fact, all the evidence
25:02
Speaker 1: points to it going far above and beyond what any
25:06
Speaker 1: other country around the world has done to protect civilian life.
25:10
Speaker 1: I mean, Israel distributes leaflets warning people to evacuate before
25:15
Speaker 1: it moves into an area. It has stayed on the
25:18
Speaker 1: phone to people before they evacuate to make sure they've
25:21
Speaker 1: evacuated a building before it strikes you know it goes
25:24
Speaker 1: above and beyond. An analysis that others, much more across
25:29
Speaker 1: the figures than I have have done, shows that actually
25:32
Speaker 1: the civilian death toll proportionally is quite low in this war,
25:37
Speaker 1: and lower than others. But Henry, what do you think
25:40
Speaker 1: of the Australian Prime Minister's unwillingness to criticize the ICC
25:46
Speaker 1: while Joe Biden and the UK and you know others
25:50
Speaker 1: around the world have said the decision is outrageous and incomprehensible.
25:56
Speaker 6: Well, to my mind, the Prime Minister should take a
26:01
Speaker 6: stronger view, not merely because this decision raises so many
26:08
Speaker 6: questions of substance, but also because of the risks opposed
26:12
Speaker 6: to Australia itself. If the ICC is allowed to essentially
26:19
Speaker 6: intrude in domestic jurisdictions when it doesn't under its own
26:25
Speaker 6: charter have that right, then that will raise substantial problems
26:33
Speaker 6: and risks, not really for the US but for Australia.
26:38
Speaker 6: And so we need to be vigilant to maintain our sovereignty,
26:44
Speaker 6: including our sovereignty relative to the ICC. And that's why,
26:51
Speaker 6: on top of the all the other aspects of this decision,
26:55
Speaker 6: why President Biden has been so strong. His response, the
27:02
Speaker 6: US isn't a number party to the ic C. But
27:08
Speaker 6: if the ICC pursues in this course, then there's no
27:11
Speaker 6: prospect whatsoever that Congress will ever accept the United States
27:19
Speaker 6: becoming subject to ICC jurisdiction, and that in turn will
27:26
Speaker 6: severely limit whatever the legitimate ambitions may be of an
27:31
Speaker 6: entity such as the ICC.
27:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Henry, I guess thank you very much
27:35
Speaker 1: for joining me this evening. Now let's move on to
27:40
Speaker 1: a story that we broke on this program last year
27:43
Speaker 1: that then sparked an investigation into Labour's mobile phone black
27:47
Speaker 1: spots scheme. Now, the program promised to fix mobile phone
27:51
Speaker 1: black spots in regional communities, and last February we reported
27:56
Speaker 1: that Labour stood accused of pork barreling by picking the
28:00
Speaker 1: locations that would get funding. Have a look, rather than
28:05
Speaker 1: allowing communities to apply based on their need for improved
28:08
Speaker 1: coverage based on their black spots. The government seems to
28:13
Speaker 1: have hand picked the fifty four specific locations. Tonight we
28:18
Speaker 1: can reveal the vast majority of locations being funded are
28:23
Speaker 1: in labor held seats. As it turns out, forty of
28:28
Speaker 1: the fifty four locations are in labor electorates and just
28:32
Speaker 1: eleven locations are in coalition held seats. Now, our report
28:39
Speaker 1: sparked an investigation by the Order to General and today
28:42
Speaker 1: it was handed down and it found that seventy four
28:46
Speaker 1: percent of all target locations selected by Minister Michelle Roland
28:50
Speaker 1: were in labor electorates. The report finds that departmental officials
28:55
Speaker 1: conducted themselves appropriately, but it did highlight the political composition
28:59
Speaker 1: of locations picked by the minister. And I'm Joe now
29:03
Speaker 1: to discuss this by Shadow Communications Minister David Coleman. David,
29:08
Speaker 1: thanks for your time. Look of the fifty four target
29:11
Speaker 1: locations for forty four were in marginal seats, so this
29:15
Speaker 1: was clearly a political program.
29:20
Speaker 9: Oh one hundred percent, Shari, I mean this is hypocrisy
29:23
Speaker 9: written large. Like before the last election, now, Prime Minister
29:27
Speaker 9: Alberanzi was out saying funding shouldn't be allocated based on
29:30
Speaker 9: seats being marginal. I mean the Order the General has
29:33
Speaker 9: found today that more than eighty percent of the seeds
29:37
Speaker 9: for which funding was allocated by Minister Rowlands were marginal seats,
29:42
Speaker 9: and even worse, seventy four percent of them were labor seats.
29:46
Speaker 9: So I mean the minister here has done absolutely the
29:50
Speaker 9: wrong thing. She has allocated funding based on politics, absolutely
29:56
Speaker 9: the opposite of what the government said they would do,
29:59
Speaker 9: and they need to be called out on it.
30:01
Speaker 1: There were no damning findings though, were they Even though
30:04
Speaker 1: they were political locations, it wasn't in breach of any laws,
30:11
Speaker 1: you know.
30:12
Speaker 9: The reporters found that the departmental officials acted appropriately and
30:18
Speaker 9: they had to deal with the hand that they were dealt.
30:21
Speaker 9: And what the report shows very clearly is that the
30:25
Speaker 9: so called target locations were not chosen by the department
30:31
Speaker 9: but by the minister. So the minister basically handed over
30:34
Speaker 9: a list and said, here are the target locations. It
30:37
Speaker 9: just so happens that three quarters of them are in
30:39
Speaker 9: labor seeds and then the departmental officials did their jobs
30:43
Speaker 9: in appropriate fashion. But the bottom line here is this
30:47
Speaker 9: is a massive pork barreling program that the Labor government
30:51
Speaker 9: has put in place, and the Order the General has
30:53
Speaker 9: said very clearly that it's important to look at the
30:57
Speaker 9: political composition of funding and that's exactly what's happened here.
31:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the reason we kept highlighting this issue
31:03
Speaker 1: is because it was a case of pork barreling and
31:06
Speaker 1: other regional communities who did have black spots, and they
31:09
Speaker 1: can be life threatening if it's a flood zone or
31:12
Speaker 1: a bush fire zone and people need to be able
31:15
Speaker 1: to contact emergency services and they can't get coverage. That's
31:18
Speaker 1: why this is a serious issue. And yet you know,
31:21
Speaker 1: there were pot finds that Labor was allocating funding based
31:25
Speaker 1: on politics rather than where was desperately needing that funding.
31:31
Speaker 1: But David, I want to put to you though, that
31:33
Speaker 1: both sides of politics engage in pork barreling. So do
31:37
Speaker 1: you think that if you're in government, you know, can
31:40
Speaker 1: you commit to not giving funding to broke programs based
31:44
Speaker 1: on politics, based on where we'll be politically advantageous.
31:50
Speaker 9: I think it's incredibly important, Shari that funding is allocated
31:53
Speaker 9: on a fair basis, on the basis of need, not
31:56
Speaker 9: on the basis of marginality of seeds. That's what the
32:00
Speaker 9: said they did. They have done the exact opposite, and
32:04
Speaker 9: in the report it specifically talks about the fact that
32:07
Speaker 9: communities were going to the department and basically saying, hey,
32:10
Speaker 9: why can't we apply? And the reason they couldn't apply
32:14
Speaker 9: was because they weren't on the minister's handpicked list. So
32:18
Speaker 9: it's very important that funding is distributed in a fair
32:20
Speaker 9: way and that's not what's happened here.
32:23
Speaker 1: All right, David Coleman, thank you very much for joining
32:25
Speaker 1: us tonight, and we'll approach Michelle Roland about this and
32:29
Speaker 1: thank you and we'll see if she can come in
32:31
Speaker 1: the program tomorrow evening. Now after the break, the rogue
32:34
Speaker 1: Labor senator who went against Prime Minister to repeat a
32:38
Speaker 1: hate chant now has joined anti Isral protesters at Melbourne University.
32:43
Speaker 1: Plus Labour's detainee Debarcle snowballs yet again. My fiery political
32:49
Speaker 1: panel will be on right here live next Welcome back.
32:58
Speaker 4: Well.
32:59
Speaker 1: Labour's detaining crisis continues. Revelations today in the Papers that
33:04
Speaker 1: another former detainee has been released back into the community
33:07
Speaker 1: on a twelvemonth suspended sentence. This is despite the forty
33:11
Speaker 1: two year old man breaching his curfew conditions and failing
33:15
Speaker 1: to maintain is uncle monitor. The ex detainee also reportedly
33:20
Speaker 1: has a long and colorful criminal record, and he had
33:24
Speaker 1: his visa counseled on character grounds back in twenty seventeen. Well,
33:29
Speaker 1: let's bring let's bring in tonight's political panel. Liberal Senator
33:32
Speaker 1: Holly Hughes, who looks like she's got the yellow memo tonight,
33:36
Speaker 1: and Labor MP Daniel Malino. We're matching, Holly. Good to
33:40
Speaker 1: see you both. I love it's a little bit twitty.
33:43
Speaker 1: How are you, Daniel, Let's start with you. Look, this
33:48
Speaker 1: seems to be getting worse for the government. Every week
33:51
Speaker 1: there's another scandal with one of these detainees.
33:57
Speaker 8: Back to a point that I feel we've covered a
33:59
Speaker 8: few times before, which is that this was the result
34:03
Speaker 8: of a High Court case which we opposed, and a
34:06
Speaker 8: lot of this has flowed from that, so it was
34:08
Speaker 8: something which the government opposed. I also want to stress
34:11
Speaker 8: that this is a system which was set up based
34:14
Speaker 8: upon a bill that we put forward, but which a
34:17
Speaker 8: number of amendments were made to which we accepted from
34:19
Speaker 8: the opposition. So it was basically a system that was
34:22
Speaker 8: set up with both major parties voting for it. We
34:25
Speaker 8: basically accepted the amendments put forward by the opposition. So look,
34:30
Speaker 8: it's a system which is operating according to the parameters
34:34
Speaker 8: that both sides voted on. I think that's really important
34:37
Speaker 8: context here.
34:39
Speaker 1: Well, well, let's get Holly's response to that. I mean,
34:41
Speaker 1: do you agree with that? Do you accept it. Are
34:43
Speaker 1: you just as responsible for this crisis?
34:48
Speaker 10: No, absolutely not, because when this all happened, Alberinezi was
34:52
Speaker 10: on one of his many jaunts overseas and Richard Miles
34:55
Speaker 10: was in fact the acting Prime Minister and he came
34:59
Speaker 10: to who mister Dutton early one morning and said, please
35:02
Speaker 10: help us. We need some legislation here. And mister Dutton
35:07
Speaker 10: and our team put together a series of proposals, gave
35:12
Speaker 10: them to the government, who then had the legislation drafted.
35:16
Speaker 10: This was, remember, supposed to be the toughest set of
35:18
Speaker 10: reforms that had ever been put forward in this area
35:21
Speaker 10: by Clara O'Neill. This was drafted by the Labor Party.
35:24
Speaker 10: This was put up to the Parliament by the Labor Party.
35:26
Speaker 10: This is their legislation, So the legislation is in play.
35:30
Speaker 10: What is interesting about what's happened today is clearly the
35:34
Speaker 10: political will or the will coming from the Minister Andrew Giles,
35:38
Speaker 10: the man who is in perpetual hiding. It would now
35:41
Speaker 10: seem but the Commonwealth Prosecutor once again has made no
35:46
Speaker 10: claim for this person to be on remand they've supported
35:51
Speaker 10: bail applications. I mean, how many times do these people
35:54
Speaker 10: need to breach either their curfew conditions or break the
35:58
Speaker 10: law before this common Wealth government will enforce the legislation
36:02
Speaker 10: that is there. These breaches were punishable by one year
36:07
Speaker 10: in jail each. Yet this guy's been let out again
36:10
Speaker 10: with no objection from the Commonwealth prosecutor to we'll just
36:14
Speaker 10: say how you.
36:15
Speaker 1: Go next time.
36:16
Speaker 10: Well, next time it might not just be a curfew
36:18
Speaker 10: breach and that is squarely at the fate of this government.
36:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the issue, Daniel Malino. You know that
36:24
Speaker 1: the people are concerned about that the minister is taking
36:28
Speaker 1: the advice in many cases of this community Safety Board
36:32
Speaker 1: that might not recommend an ankle bracelet or might not
36:35
Speaker 1: oppose bail. And you know, Anthony Alberinezi prides himself on
36:39
Speaker 1: not losing any ministers to scandals. But on the other hand,
36:42
Speaker 1: isn't he starting to look weak for not sacking Andrew
36:46
Speaker 1: Giles or Clara O'Neil.
36:49
Speaker 8: But look, I think fundamentally we have a system of government,
36:53
Speaker 8: without wanting to state the obvious, where we have a parliament,
36:57
Speaker 8: an executive, and a legislature and a judiciary and some
37:00
Speaker 8: functions we leave separate from the executive. Now, the system
37:07
Speaker 8: that was set up again according to this bill, was
37:09
Speaker 8: that there be this tribunal and that the minister not
37:13
Speaker 8: sign off on the detail of every single decision.
37:17
Speaker 1: Actually, the actually the board's role is to give him
37:21
Speaker 1: recommendations and it's up to him to take their advice
37:24
Speaker 1: or not.
37:26
Speaker 8: But we also, I think have seen a number of
37:28
Speaker 8: instances where prosecutors have made decisions which I think some
37:32
Speaker 8: in the media have questioned. And again I just think
37:35
Speaker 8: we've got to be a bit careful about imagining that
37:39
Speaker 8: ministers or politicians are going to second guess prosecutors at
37:43
Speaker 8: every step of the way. I mean, I think we've
37:44
Speaker 8: got to figure out what system do we want and
37:47
Speaker 8: if the opposition is now saying that they want a
37:49
Speaker 8: totally different system, than happy to hear it. But this
37:55
Speaker 8: was again something which both sides voted on.
37:58
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. Now we've seen that the
38:01
Speaker 1: Senator Fatima Payman, she was the one who repeated that
38:05
Speaker 1: hate chant last week, even though Anthony Albanezi said, you know,
38:09
Speaker 1: chancer from the river to the Sea have no place
38:11
Speaker 1: in our streets. Where she has now appeared at the
38:13
Speaker 1: University of Melbourne where Auntie Israel protesters are occupying one
38:18
Speaker 1: of the buildings. Have a look. My conscience has been
38:23
Speaker 1: uneasy for far too long and I must call this
38:28
Speaker 1: out for what it is.
38:30
Speaker 7: This is a genocide from the river to the sea.
38:34
Speaker 4: Palestine will be free.
38:38
Speaker 1: And those were her comments before. And we're going to
38:40
Speaker 1: show you now a picture of her at the University
38:43
Speaker 1: of Melbourne today. There it is the os run it Holly.
38:48
Speaker 1: Is it appropriate that she's turned up to protest it
38:51
Speaker 1: this encampment?
38:54
Speaker 11: No, it's not at all.
38:55
Speaker 10: She's a West Australian senator. I'd be very intrigued as
38:58
Speaker 10: to what parliamentary business she thought she was doing in Victoria,
39:01
Speaker 10: particularly at Melbourne University today attending a protest and what
39:07
Speaker 10: is the camping that's been occurring in this university which
39:11
Speaker 10: they've blocked the second encampment they tried to do today.
39:15
Speaker 10: It is absolutely inappropriate. But again this is a failure
39:19
Speaker 10: of alber and easy to show any leadership. Remember the
39:22
Speaker 10: Labor Party used to be pretty strong and abiding by
39:25
Speaker 10: caucus rules. Well, Fatima Payment is now pushing those out
39:29
Speaker 10: the window. She's going against what the Labor Party's policy is.
39:33
Speaker 10: She's in complete breach of what their caucus has agreed
39:36
Speaker 10: to when it comes to Israel and Palestine, and yet
39:40
Speaker 10: nothing has been done and she still sits on a
39:43
Speaker 10: Foreign Affairs and Trade committee. He has done nothing. It
39:46
Speaker 10: is leak week leadership, and of course we know this
39:49
Speaker 10: is driven by internal politics. For four Southwest Sydney seats.
39:54
Speaker 1: What do you think, Daniel should she have turned up
39:56
Speaker 1: to an encampment where we know students have anti Semitic
40:01
Speaker 1: comments and slogans.
40:04
Speaker 8: Well, can I just preface my answer by saying that
40:07
Speaker 8: on the weekend I attended the Victorian State Labor Party conference.
40:12
Speaker 8: Attended through the front entrances. I think anybody should have the.
40:15
Speaker 5: Right to do.
40:17
Speaker 8: There was a lot of pushing and shoving and jostling.
40:20
Speaker 8: There was a lot of over the top behavior, a
40:22
Speaker 8: lot of swarming and screaming in my face. I think
40:26
Speaker 8: when they realized there was a federal MP and look
40:29
Speaker 8: for me, let's.
40:30
Speaker 1: Just SEEPA view is that there were pro Palestinian protesters there.
40:34
Speaker 1: That's what you're referring to, Yes.
40:36
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, And look it led to me reflecting on
40:40
Speaker 8: that balance between I think what's a very important part
40:44
Speaker 8: of our democracy, which is the robust competition of ideas.
40:48
Speaker 8: The right to protest. I think clearly what happened on
40:51
Speaker 8: the weekend across the line and what I think, and
40:54
Speaker 8: I think, look, you've talked about this Sharhi in other
40:57
Speaker 8: contexts and other MPs as well, but I simply wanted
41:01
Speaker 8: to reflect that.
41:02
Speaker 6: Look, for me, there.
41:04
Speaker 8: Is a creeping extremism to some of the language and
41:08
Speaker 8: the demeanor and indeed at times the physicality of the
41:11
Speaker 8: discussion and the way in which people are conducting themselves.
41:14
Speaker 8: So look, what I think in general is we need
41:17
Speaker 8: to have a broader discussion about the way in which
41:19
Speaker 8: we as a community discussed this issue where there are
41:22
Speaker 8: highly varied, very strongly held views, but we as a
41:25
Speaker 8: democracy need to be able to have a discussion about
41:28
Speaker 8: those in a way that is peaceful and that is respectful,
41:33
Speaker 8: and that is as empathetic as possible. And so what
41:36
Speaker 8: I would say is, in general, look, there have been
41:38
Speaker 8: a number of instances where I think things, Oh, I.
41:42
Speaker 1: Think we're just losing Daniel's audio there. Look, in my opinion,
41:47
Speaker 1: you know, free speech is essential, sure, but there's no
41:51
Speaker 1: place for hate speech and there's no place for violence.
41:54
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll leave it there with our political panel tonight.
41:57
Speaker 1: Holly Hughes and Daniel Melino. Now after the break, more
42:01
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump's historic hush money trial as testimonies finally
42:05
Speaker 1: come to a close. The Australians Adam Crichton will join
42:08
Speaker 1: me live from Washington after the break. All right, now
42:16
Speaker 1: to the US, where Donald Trump's historic hush money trial
42:19
Speaker 1: is finally nearing its end and his defense team rested
42:23
Speaker 1: their case today. Many in the media were disappointed when
42:27
Speaker 1: the former president chose not to testify and this brought
42:31
Speaker 1: testimonies to a close. But Donald Trump Junior did have
42:35
Speaker 1: this to say outside of court.
42:39
Speaker 11: What's going on here is an absolute force and anyone
42:43
Speaker 11: in America should be embarrassed at the absolute miscarriage of
42:47
Speaker 11: justice that we're seeing here. The star witness in this
42:50
Speaker 11: case is a what nine times convicted liar and now
42:55
Speaker 11: an admitted fief. That is who they're hanging the entire case.
43:00
Speaker 11: The other one happens to be a porn star. Not exactly,
43:04
Speaker 11: not exactly the ultimate form of jurisprudence here.
43:09
Speaker 1: And of course he's referring there to trump'sformer fixer and lawyer,
43:14
Speaker 1: Michael Cohen. With the Australians Washington correspondent Adam Crichton joins me. Now, Adam,
43:19
Speaker 1: great to suit. You. Look, the jury's now going to
43:21
Speaker 1: start deliberations next week. What can we expect. How long
43:26
Speaker 1: do you think it's going to take?
43:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, look, that's right.
43:30
Speaker 12: The jury gets a six week break. Now they come
43:33
Speaker 12: back on Tuesday for the closing arguments, which the judge
43:36
Speaker 12: thinks will take just one day. So therefore it's quite
43:38
Speaker 12: conceivable that by the end of next week we have
43:41
Speaker 12: the verdict from this jury. Look what's going to happen.
43:44
Speaker 12: I mean, it's interesting most of the legal scholars on TV,
43:46
Speaker 12: the experts, they don't think that the prosecution has reached
43:50
Speaker 12: the level of beyond reasonable doubt. And these include many
43:54
Speaker 12: kind of Democrat aligned experts.
43:56
Speaker 6: But you just can't.
43:56
Speaker 1: Predict the jury.
43:57
Speaker 12: There's seven men, there's five women. Interesting, there's two lawyers
44:01
Speaker 12: on the jury, so that can sometimes throw a curveball.
44:05
Speaker 12: But basically it just comes down to what they think,
44:07
Speaker 12: whether they're going to believe Michael Cohen or Donald Trump.
44:10
Speaker 12: That's really all it comes down to. And look, this jury, remember,
44:14
Speaker 12: is drawn from a voting area that I think voted
44:17
Speaker 12: for ninety percent for Joe Biden in twenty so it's
44:21
Speaker 12: quite possible that there are very few Trump supporters of
44:24
Speaker 12: the jury.
44:25
Speaker 1: Well, either way, it's kind of impossible to find any
44:29
Speaker 1: members of the jury who would not have an opinion
44:31
Speaker 1: on Donald Trump. I mean, he's one individual that I
44:34
Speaker 1: haven't met anyone who doesn't either hate him or love
44:38
Speaker 1: him now. I Meanwhile, the Trump campaign is reportedly threatening
44:42
Speaker 1: legal action against a fictionalized biopic, The Apprentice. Tell me
44:48
Speaker 1: what this is about?
44:51
Speaker 12: Yeah, So this film tracks the rise of Donald Trump
44:54
Speaker 12: in the nineteen seventies in the nineteen eighties in New York,
44:57
Speaker 12: and it generally paints him as an absolutely horrible human being.
45:01
Speaker 12: There are parts in there where he rapes his first wife, Ivana,
45:06
Speaker 12: and apparently the scene is quite shocking. There were gaps
45:08
Speaker 12: apparently at the carn Film Festival when it was played. Interestingly,
45:12
Speaker 12: there's no distributor yet for this film, so that probably
45:14
Speaker 12: suggests that it's really more an exercising TDS or Trump
45:18
Speaker 12: derangement syndrome. I would say for the producers and the directors,
45:21
Speaker 12: I mean, it's probably not going to even hurt Donald Trump.
45:25
Speaker 12: I mean, to some extent, we've seen his rise. I mean,
45:27
Speaker 12: he generally benefits from these sort of attacks from the
45:30
Speaker 12: so called elites. So I don't think it's going to
45:32
Speaker 12: hurt him. I don't think he's going to win or
45:33
Speaker 12: lose any votes at the carn Film Festival.
45:36
Speaker 1: Well apparently at the Cairn Film Festival. I mean the
45:39
Speaker 1: film was apparently well received and it was even given
45:41
Speaker 1: a standing ovation. Have look, So that's what it takes
45:55
Speaker 1: to win awards, Adam, you know, produce a film about
45:58
Speaker 1: Trump raping some might not his first wife as it
46:00
Speaker 1: turns out. Now I want to ask you about Julian Assigns.
46:04
Speaker 1: This is quite an amazing development. Yet again, he's won
46:07
Speaker 1: the right to appeal his extradition to the US. This
46:11
Speaker 1: comes after the High Court judges ruled that he could
46:13
Speaker 1: be prejudiced there under the Constitution's First Amendment because is Australian.
46:20
Speaker 1: Explain this for us. Why would the fact that he's
46:23
Speaker 1: Australian mean that he could appeal his extradition to the US,
46:28
Speaker 1: where he'd surely end up in prison And he says
46:31
Speaker 1: he fears for his life if he were to end
46:33
Speaker 1: up in prison.
46:36
Speaker 12: Well, basically, there's a principle in American jurisprudence that if
46:39
Speaker 12: you're not a US citizens you're not necessarily given the
46:41
Speaker 12: protections of the Bill of Rights, so free speech in
46:44
Speaker 12: this case, and obviously that's a huge part of the
46:46
Speaker 12: charges against Jewan Massage and his lawyers in the UK.
46:50
Speaker 12: They wanted the US government to provide guarantees to the
46:52
Speaker 12: British government that he would have First Amendment rights, free
46:57
Speaker 12: speech rights. But my understanding is the reissue swerrences were
47:01
Speaker 12: not strong enough for the court in the UK, and
47:04
Speaker 12: so they're going to allow him to appeal the whole extradition,
47:06
Speaker 12: which of course could take many many more months and weeks.
47:08
Speaker 12: This has already been so drawn out. I mean, you
47:10
Speaker 12: have to feel sorry. At least I feel sorry for
47:12
Speaker 12: him on one level. I mean, it just takes so
47:16
Speaker 12: long for the judicial system to work.
47:20
Speaker 6: You know, what are his prospects.
47:21
Speaker 12: I mean, generally the British judges have been extremely bad
47:25
Speaker 12: for assumed. They generally side all the time with the
47:27
Speaker 12: US government. So I mean, I don't think his prospects
47:30
Speaker 12: are necessarily great. Just because there's an appeal, we have
47:33
Speaker 12: to wait and see.
47:35
Speaker 1: All right, Look, just finally, before you go, Adam, you've
47:38
Speaker 1: written your column for The Australian tomorrow on the who
47:42
Speaker 1: pandemic Treaty. This is starting to gain traction, but in
47:46
Speaker 1: Australia we don't really know what it's about. Are we
47:50
Speaker 1: going to sign up to it? Explain this?
47:54
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, I mean it's extraordinary how little media attention
47:57
Speaker 12: this gets. I mean it's a pretty significant change. You know,
48:00
Speaker 12: there'll be no changes to the World Health Organization's regulation
48:03
Speaker 12: since two thousand and five. These are binding agreements between
48:07
Speaker 12: nations on how to deal with pandemics and basically there's
48:10
Speaker 12: a treaty that's going to be voted upon next week
48:12
Speaker 12: in Geneva, which will significantly increase the parent influence of.
48:16
Speaker 6: The World Health Organization.
48:17
Speaker 12: Now, you know, my view is it did a terrible
48:19
Speaker 12: job during the pandemic. We don't need to give it
48:21
Speaker 12: any more power. A little scrutiny of these changes.
48:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean exactly. The WHL told everyone to continue travel.
48:30
Speaker 1: That opposed the travel bands said the virus wasn't infectious COVID,
48:34
Speaker 1: there was no human anyway. Adam Crichton, thank you for
48:36
Speaker 1: joining us. Now, if you missed my exclusive on Channel
48:39
Speaker 1: nine at the start of the program, head to the
48:41
Speaker 1: Sky News website. We'll have more on the show tomorrow night.
48:45
Speaker 1: But right now here's pon Murray. I'll see you tomorrow
48:48
Speaker 1: at eight