Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1160: Land Speed Records, Mountaineering, Entrepreneurship, Skiing and More with Tom Kubiniec

Transcript

Ep. 1160: Land Speed Records, Mountaineering, Entrepreneurship, Skiing and More with Tom Kubiniec · Adventure Sports Podcast

• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: your listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talk with adventures from around the globe to give you the inspiration you need to get started in the outdoors or keep moving if you're already there.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now here's your host, Kurt Lindville.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm looking forward to sending off 2025 in style and welcoming 2026.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: What a year, 2025 was pretty darn good.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to admit, could've been a lot worse, could've been much worse.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I appreciate 2025 for what it had to offer.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I wish you the happiest new year and have a safe,
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Enjoyful and fun celebration and now here is today's episode.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey friends, thanks for joining the Adventure Sports podcast.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, today, this is gonna be a real kind of a cool one.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we talk to someone about a sport or an adventure, a trip that they did, but we're gonna have a longer arc to this one.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking today to Tom Kubin, and I wanna talk about his life of having an adventurous life and maybe a life that is a little unexpected, a little less off the beaten path,
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: and Tom Kubanik started out right out of high school as a guitarist for heavy metal bands and toured around doing that for a while and then he got into mountain nearing and he did that for a while and he's most recently working on setting a land speed record at the Bonneville salt flats and we're going to talk about that a little bit.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He also is an entrepreneur started his own company has been successful with that so lots to talk about.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tom welcome to the program.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you very much, looking forward to the conversation.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Always, always good to talk about outdoors and adventure.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's been such a huge part of my life, and I think the lives of our listeners too, and it's just been such a fun time to get to visit with fantastic people, Tom, about all the things that they do.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think we need to start with a heavy metal bit, even though that's all topical little bit, but people are gonna say what?
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, well, did you end up going to college or did you just like, oh, high school, heavy metal, I don't I don't learn in a classroom setting, okay.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got I got good grades in high school, I hated it.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I graduated when I was playing guitar on graduate high school about four to six hours a day and then once I graduated I got obsessed with it.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: and I was playing in the local bands, this is out of like Buffalo Rochester, New York area.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And did that for several years and just really practicing, and then in 1984, guitar player magazine, which was the magazine of the day, I didn't article on me as one of the best unknown guitar players.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I sent a demo tape to a guy, and, uh,
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had to do an article on me, and that magazine, also, my phone was lighting up and all sort of stuff was happening.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, at a time when my parents were about to kick me out of the house and, you know, you're wasting your life kind of a thing going on.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I packed up and moved to Los Angeles, lived in Hollywood, and, you know, the goal was to be the next guitar player with Ozzie or one of the big bands.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I played a lot of cool people, but I developed 10 to 90s in my arms.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right at the moment where I thought my crew was going to take off, it was just rug was pulled out.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a big hit at that point.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of sold search for a little bit, but I had to make money.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Took a job, tell a marketing typewriter, and printer ribbons, because they'd hire anybody.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And uh...
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was horrible at it, but the guy liked me, he moved me to a non-sales position, but that was kind of a, I thought that was a dead end, so I quit and took a straight commission job for another company, doing basically the same thing, telemarked and computer supplies, and instead of practicing guitar, six, eight hours a day, I am immersed myself in the world of sales, and just all day, just books, tapes, you know, back down's cassettes.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And two, about a year and a half, two years to become modestly good at sales, I quit and started my first company in an apartment in Panorama City, really bad neighborhood, and Los Angeles.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we could afford.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, then I built that company up to 20 sales reps, sold it three years later, started another company doing the same thing, built that up.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: and got in the laptop storage when the HIPAA laws came out and then a kind of a fluke phone call a guy called me and say, can you store an MP5?
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, sure, thinking it's a computer.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said, what's an MP5?
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, the small sub machine gun he was with the FBI that was in 2002.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got fascinated with firearm storage.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd never owned a gun at that point, but we started pursuing it and worked as a dealer for another company where we were giving them a lot of input.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in 2008, I designed and patented the secure tactical weapon storage platform.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: What we simply call cradle grid now.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And by 2011, we were the primary supplier of the US military.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was considered the leading authority in smaller storage armored design.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for many years, I've traveled all over the world.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Designed this industry.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So here's a couple of questions regarding entrepreneurship and sales and you'd never set out to start with an arms storage focus that wasn't that wasn't what you started up to you know you were just moving through life and saw opportunities as they came and sometimes I have to tell people we don't know what's going to happen when we go and we start and we learn and we interact with people and we meet and it's the same way with adventure sports if you stay home nothing ever happened but if you go
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: door start to open and you didn't go to college.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you jumped out of high school, you decided to be the heavy metal guitar guy, but that led to what people would consider to be quite a successful life.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was as it been a pleasing life or you glad that you chose the path you
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, it's um, I really like, I like a high level of randomness in my day and in my life.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could never sit and work at a job when you're coming to your processing the same thing every day.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like the fact that I go in every day and I don't know what's going to happen.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that randomness of, I call it the randomness of possibility.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every day I go in, we get the opportunity to get the biggest order in the history of the company or to uncover something or to develop a new product or it's hard to put in a word sometimes.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I look at in business.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Creativities with separates winners and losers, not work, not ethics, not work ethic, not not how hard you try.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's harnessing creativity.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you look at, like I look at outdoor sports and outdoor activities as, you know, we pursue these things because we love them, but also it's how you clear your head.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: of all the noise, all the, I use the term single point focus and some people don't will never experience it, most athletes will.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that, you know, rock climbing is a great example because you're going to have a lot going on in your life.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you're on,
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you're on the mountain and you're climbing, you're on your third pitch, you're going if you're getting some altitude, you are so single point focused, you've forgotten everything about your life, except what's required for the next move, and you're so down to just the nuance of all them folks and answer these three fingertips here,
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: My toe here, I got three points of contact, I'm going to roll, and here's your so-so.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And achieving that, even in a big climb, you achieve that hyper-focus for just minutes at a time.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very fleeting, but when you can do it, it's, um, I don't know, there's something magic about it.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's like you're stopping time.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: because you can't be calling me in the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name of the name
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: same engine, same everything and it came down the driver's skill in utter race track when you're it's not you know White knuckle hole as fast you can drive driving quickly is all about creating a pattern that you can replicate every lap Or it's this is my breakpoint.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is my turn in point accelerate next turn breakpoint turn point Aged point and just your pick in these points and you're building this road map of the track and when you're racing it's about hitting those marks
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I found myself in a, it was a race I ended up winning, and during the race down the main straightaway, it wasn't a long straight.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our top speed was probably 85 miles an hour.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But my turn to put, after the end of the race, I finished.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always sit in the car and just go through the race.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: About 20 minute race, I just go through it my head, replay everything that kind of happened, things that I did wrong, things I did really well as a learning point.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going through it my head and I realized coming down the straightaway in the back and during the race you keep moving those turnpoints to get as much straightaway as you can.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: My turn in point for turn one at 80 or a breaking point at turn one, but 85 miles that was a drop of oil on the track.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the tip going, and you know you go on a freeway driving 60 miles an hour, you can't see a drop of oil on the track.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in that level of focus, I'm looking and just, I'm hitting these things, I'm saying, you know, because you come into a turn, if you break point and you realize, wow, I could have gone faster, so you move your break point up five feet.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're breaking, but now you're going a little quicker, because you don't have time to break.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's that kind of a, you drive yourself to that level of focus and that level of achievement and like a world of,
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: A world opens up, or it just compresses down to this tiny narrow band, but it's like time stops in this just.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all slow.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing happens if you've ever been in a car accident.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a moment where I, you know, guy pulled out in front of my wife and it was a hard hard hit.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: and he pulled, I don't even touch the brakes, but in that half a second, it feels like 20 minutes one.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, I think we're gonna hit.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sitting and looking at this big, it's big panel van going, don't hit the wheel.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go for the soft.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I turn the car to try to miss his wheel and hit the side.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And just think you're going through and then we hit the car one up in the air.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: everything, all of that was like such slow motion, it happened in the 10th of a second.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I processed, make sure Shida, I want her to hit the windshield.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You should go through all this stuff in your head that you realize afterwards saying, I had time to think about a lot.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a mess.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It happened in the 10th of a second.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, but again, that's hyper-hyper-focused.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me, I want to make a couple of points.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: One is, when you're doom-scrolling on your phone.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: then it numbs you out and there's no hyperfocus and it just turns into hypnosis is what it turns into and it's also they can sell you stuff but I just want to contrast that with what you just describe and most people these days find themselves
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: spinning so much of the energy on the phone instead of experiencing life in a way that can just really open up so many crazy possibility.
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: It just seems, uh, it seems like such a loss because that being in the flow, being in the zone, you know, being present in the current moment, we get that from adventure sports, we get that from other other aspects of life, but anything that requires that kind of hyper focus, I think it's so healthy and we can surprise ourselves
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: in those moments.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you already attributed your success in business to the ability to do that.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you got that partially from the Venture Sport?
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Did you get that from Adventure Sports in part?
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Adventure Sports, the things I liked really getting out and doing these things is more about getting away from.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how I basically, you know, you're working, I'm in a business, I'm working on a company, and all these things are happening.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got all these perceptions of what it, what's this, what's said, and things are stressful.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now all these different things happen.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very complex, and then you go out and rock climb in.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: your whole world just blows up and disappears.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you're dumb, climb me, come back, you can take a shot, but now you come back the following morning, and your slate is clean.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your head is clean.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of the crap that it built up from the previous day is just gone, right?
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's still there, but it's no longer clogging.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's that clogging your brain.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can choose to upload all this stuff again and think about all of it.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can say, let's just focus on this one piece of solar.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just focus on something that's past the problem I'm dealing with.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's focus on that because I get there, the problem no longer exists.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just people use the term a clarity break.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard that before like in modern business.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I either clarity break.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: For some of us, a clarity break is, you know, 400 feet of rock, or is, you know, doing something.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I find just a walk in a mature forest, changes, your changes, your mood changes, your day, there's no scientific studies I don't think, but there's an energy transfer or something.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've got my, we've got our hunting ranch.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I go up there and spend as much time as I can.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not always adventure sports, sometimes I'm just driving a tractor.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: or working out a trail, being in raw nature like that, away from everything, it's just you can't not be happy, you can't be miserable in that environment, but we've created, you talked about doomschool and kids sitting
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: you spend an hour in the morning flipping through your phone.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's an hour you're never going to get back and you accomplish nothing, but adventure sports gives you an incredible hit of adrenaline, of dopamine.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was all these things that we find pleasure in, that they call me adrenaline junkies or all these things, but probably I see with a lot of the modern tech,
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I even see it in our food supply is there's scientifically engineering all these things to give you The same dopamine hit the same adrenaline rush that you'd get if you're out Engage in a truly wild adventure sport Yeah, they're really good at it.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: They should be outside doing stuff and they're all a sudden, you know, and I want to have goes by and you're just sitting on the phone flipping through pictures or flipping through the real.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to what you mentioned when you said that you got really focused on learning how to do sales and the reason I want to say this, I've interviewed so many people who are trying to make a business out of the adventure sport that they love.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: and so they need to be able to sell whatever it is that they're offering to be successful and to make that lifestyle work and I think a lot of people in our audience are probably like boy that'd be great.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to be able to travel full-time while I earn money or I would like to be able to focus on my climbing and somehow support myself and you know where all of this leads.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the bottom line is if you can't sell
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: what you're offering.
• 15:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're probably not going to do very well at it.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So how did that play out in your own life?
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, how did you learn how to sell?
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, how can you make that work for you to benefit others?
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Micro level work.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a term I would use.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I learned how to sell.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was telemarketing and I knew I wasn't very good at sales, but I was learning.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I couldn't outsell the guys who are good, but I could make more calls.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: The average guy in our in your organization that I worked for, who had a lot of accounts and they were doing repeat sales, they were making 40 to 60 calls a day.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was making 160 to 200 calls a day.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I just, I just, I just volumed it out, but I also, that gave me a lot of,
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: personal experience.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not making all those calls day in day out thousands of call each call you learn something.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You pick up experience.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But to get back to your original question and try to turn a, uh, if you're trying to turn a sport you love into a, into a living people always think macro.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm going to do that how this big, this company, I'm going to do this.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I make money.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I want to do.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Take it down to a micro level.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you, if you're doing something a sport and you want to try to make money at it.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: then at a very, very small level.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Find a way to have somebody give you just even pay you a tiny bit of money to do something.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you can't convert it at a micro level, don't spend your time in a macro level at won't, it has to, you know, I mean, that's, I always say is, you know,
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Secure itself, we do millions and millions of dollars in business a year in what I do, but it all traces back to my ability to walk in and get one person to buy my product, which I can do.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can, you know, I can, and that's what, that's really, you gotta stay micro level, you the entrepreneur, or you the adventure sports guy.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you get one person to pay you as a guy once?
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you do that?
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't, if you, if that's what your goal means, God, he's just in guiding his example.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't get one person to pay you, don't create a business, but if you plan, then get another one, and then get another one.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And each time you get one, you're learning different things.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you got 15, 20 people of page, and I'll say, hmm, okay, all these people of this income, and now you kind of, you're marketing plant, almost will fall into this lap of who these people are with, okay,
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I talk to more of them?
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Megan, do between AI tools and, you know, using the Internet properly for research, you can dig into now ways to expand what you've done at a micro level.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't walk into business and I want to be a guide.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to open up a company and spend all this money on marketing and advertising and get people to pay me to guide.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Get one person.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just, if you can't operate at a micro level, it will never work at a macro level.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: question for you Tom.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard it said that you have to try something long enough until you figure out if it works or not.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And one example is people will say, well, I'm going to try this.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: They try 50 times, which sounds like a big number to a lot of people.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they don't get a sale, or they don't close a deal, or they don't get the customer.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, well, it doesn't work.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if they keep going till they got their first customer, maybe that's a hundred times, then they could say, why did I get that cut?
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how many more times do I need to do this to get my second customer?
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's not 100 now that I learned from the one.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe I can make a business where it's okay to get only one customer per 100 contacts.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can develop a business around that ratio.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what your thoughts about that.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of the digital world.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a tough one because there's effort and there's actual knowledge or experience.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's these different things that come together.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And unbelievable effort can overcome a lot of inexperience and a lot of things.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this still doesn't meet a bad idea, still a bad idea.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: A good idea, still a good idea.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can tell the difference.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's checking your ego at the door.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I always tell, I was like, I'm a owner of the company.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the CEO and it's easy to get people to say yes to me, because they want to.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very big about hiring people and telling people, look, when we sit down and talk about this, we're all equal.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you need to, if you think I'm wrong, you got to tell me I'm wrong.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was taught to look in a vacuum.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going really fast in the direction that I want to go.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Problem is I make mistakes.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I need you guys.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you think I'm making a mistake, hit me in the face with it and say, look, time you're wrong.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because then I'll listen and we'll say, okay, you're right.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's adjust.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think even people looking at starting at a small level of this level, you've got to be able to assess the results you're getting or not getting.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not getting results, then you guys say, okay, well, am I, am I, am I making enough call?
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm making it, you know, I'm putting a lot of effort.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it's not effort.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what is it?
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it, you know, the information you're using?
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, try a couple different branding messages.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: If that's not working, then you need to move on to something else.
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you haven't found the need yet.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: You may be, maybe you haven't found the need yet.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: The need that's trained to solve.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: is possible.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's also, you know, people who want to be an entrepreneur.
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I say there's entrepreneurs and there's one entrepreneur.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: A entrepreneur wants to be an entrepreneur but they're not.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not, you can't learn it because the difference between a true entrepreneur and a non entrepreneur is risk tolerance.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: The ability to like, you know, running a business right when I was running my telemarketing business before the internet, you know, you'd wait till Monday for the mail to come in with all your checks.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because the biggest mail day was always Monday, I was one of the most checks on it.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my payroll would get pulled on Tuesday, you know, the payroll company would pull it.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd so Friday, I would not have enough money in the bank to cover payroll.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I knew the history of my company of say, well, Monday, I know I get so much in checks and Monday will cover it.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the entrepreneur sleeps like a baby all weekend.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And non-entrepreneurs says, what if I don't get enough checks?
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, I can bounce payroll.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it, you know, all these, and now you can't, the stress can consume you.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you know, people, if you're pursuing money, get a job.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you, you know, pursuing the freedoms of entrepreneurship, if you have an idea that you just want to pursue it, but understand money is a byproduct of achieving your goals with your business.
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: If the goal is money, it's never going to.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we've, we've never we yeah, my company makes money, but.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our goal is to solve problem.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, in the military, we completely change the way the military stores and organizes guns because they had significant problem.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see significant problems in consumer fire.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm storage and we're trying to.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our win is to get people to change the way they think about storing their guns.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we win, America is a lot safer.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Doing that will also generate revenue.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think revenue is a byproduct of of laying out a plan and executing against a plan to achieve a result.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: good words.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, you talked about risk tolerance there.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go into mountain airing and rock climbing and talk about.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I personally feel like if people get involved in a sport that they can do safely, but that creates that feeling of danger, that challenge that stretches us and helps us to grow, that we learn how to manage risk better.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we become a risk tolerant.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe, but how did that play out in your own life?
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting because I've always been physically not, and as a kid growing up doing stuff, you run the risk of getting hurt.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's never been an issue for me, getting hurt by people, or by somebody saying something or, you know, that's always been a bigger concern of mine.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do people think?
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's, as I was like, I think I've grown past that many, many years ago, but yeah, it's interesting.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I never, because when you look at adventure sports, I don't think the people that really get into this stuff think, I mean, you, you do everything you can to be as safe as possible, but you're not thinking about the danger.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're aware that it's there, and you take the danger to the implied or the dangers that exist, drive you to take the necessary steps to be safe.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like rock climbing, I've never, I mean, I'm afraid of heights, the first pitch of a rock climbing, the first hundred feet, I'm terrified because I can see the spotlight hit.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a point where you get to a height, though, or all of a sudden, everything becomes surreal, and now I relax and just can climb.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it always takes me that first pitch I'm terrified.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: But for me, pushing past that, there's no greater feeling than doing something that you're really, or a point when you're scared.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And say, I'm not gonna let fear stop me, I've got the ropes on me, my partner knows his stuff, we're good, and working through it, because once you get past it, it is such a great win.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for you, it's a matter of getting past the first pitch and getting into that flow.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm getting into that zone, that, yeah, that hyper focus for just the world melts away.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's just you rock, you know, in a rock climbing, I used to really enjoy ice, as a, because you're using tool.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I do a lot of, I do car restoration, I fix up, and I always love the concept of really cool tools.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're achieving you, really cool capabilities.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a, I don't know, there's a organic nature to that whole ice climbing thing with the, you know, depending on the condition of the ice.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many tiny variables that you're working with.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when it all clicks in, it's just, it's just cool.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no words to describe it.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's just really, it's just really an experience.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: If someone wanted to try ice climbing, a rock climbing or something like that, what advice do you have for them?
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey friends, I want to take a minute to tell you about campfire ranch.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: My friend Sam started campfire ranch several years ago and his goal, his mission, his to energize places by creating meaningful human experiences in the outdoors.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And all of the campfire ranch locations from their campgrounds to trail side lodges to backcountry huts, their goal is to help you stay in the place and in the way that you want so that you can spend more time getting out there and getting after it.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Campfire Ranch Little Sugar is a trail side lodge located in Belivista, Arkansas, just north of Bentonville, the mountain bike capital of the world.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: The lodge features seven private bedrooms with on-sweet bathrooms and communal spaces for gathering, meeting with others and relaxing after a long day on the trails.
• 25:21
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• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So grab some buddies and go to www.campfirerange.co slash ASP.
• 25:45
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• 25:46
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• 25:49
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• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this opportunity is valid all the way through 2026.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you know how these things go, your weekend is going to fill up quickly.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So go right now to campfirerans.co slash ASP to plan your big adventure.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to find good people to climb really.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's I mean, I got very lucky in In climbing my business partner was it was my first business jet computer was her name was Elizabeth and her boyfriend was Kevin Thorough who went on to become one of great Britain's top mountain years He and I became very good friends.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I had the opportunity to climb with you know
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody, he's got, he's, holds speed records in Yosemite up in the Canadian Rockies.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's just, I mean, free solo climb.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's just, he's done it all.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I had the opportunity to climb with him.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it got me into a pretty high level of climbing, very quickly.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That would.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't always do that, but it's, I mean, you want to, if you're interested in rock climbing, find out where the local bulldozering area is and go there every day.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: live not that far from San Fernando Valley had a bouldering area.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just stop every day after work.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just jump out of the car and go boulder for a while.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you're doing that, you're meeting people.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing people.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you go there, if you really into it, you go there four days a week practicing.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, other people are there.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Realize, this guy's here all's high.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to friendships.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey,
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go do this climb and you'll make the contact, but you've got to show up every day at entry level stuff and even a climbing gym is a if you really want to get in the climbing climb four days a week just find a climbing gym find bolding area it finds there's I mean if you live in the middle of the Midwest and there's no climbing gym maybe you want to find a different adventure sport it's a lot of things have to line up sometimes
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've also heard people say do it every day because your body gets into the habit of it and then your body almost goes into withdrawals if you don't which is really good for health because you realize now movement makes me feel great and if I don't move I feel bad so I'm going to do the thing whatever it is because it becomes a healthy life but what you just illustrated with the people you meet people are like no no that's guys for real he's always here
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the key, the key to business, the key to sports.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I run a very successful business, but I didn't do this on my mind.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had more mentors, more coaches, more I'm always looking to find people who are far more experienced than I am and can help me and can offer me advice because, you know,
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's too hard to solve all your own problems when your people out there that have been through the same thing right and if you can leverage their experience, it just speeds things up a lot.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you mentioned bouldering and showing up every day and pretty soon that people recognize you and they're like, hey, dude, we're going to do this thing.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to be a part of it.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you do that in the business world?
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you show up every day and find the right people?
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that's it for me.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm of I joined me to quick then my first business jet computer products then I had greenline data Then I had secure it all three companies grew to about four to five million and sales in three years all of them and they all said
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: at 4 million a year in sales.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And secured had so much potential that there's a point when I realized it's like 2009 made 2008 that, wow, this is my third company.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: All three of my companies do 4 million a year in sales.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I must be a 4 million dollar a year person.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the common, I'm the common denominator.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the business, it's me.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a ceiling of 4 million that I can't break through.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I say, you know what, I'm going to have to change.
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did this just kind of on my own, but I started looking at business coaches.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I joined this stage, which is a CEO peer group I meet with once a month with about 12 other CEOs of small-to-medium-sized companies.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a speaker and we work through helping each other solve problems.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's really you're having to like 12 business coaches or a board of directors.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: that I meet with once a month.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was doing all these things to really realize, you know, I was a salesman.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't a CEO.
• 30:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a very big difference.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And people in, you know, 99 or 90 was 93% of all small businesses never get past 4 million.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's where one man
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: at 4 million.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hiring people.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing everything that I'm hiring people to help me.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: At 20 million, I'm delegating everything to people to do it and allows me to operate a higher level and more brain power, the term, you know, work on the business, not in the business, but that's the big, that big separation is going from
• 30:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: involved with everything to delegating it.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a hard transition for me.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not hard to do.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you have to actually do.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I put a sign on my wall, my office, and says, what are you doing?
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: They should be delegating.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I hired a guy that I knew who he had sold his company.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he wasn't, he was, he was available.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said, Frank, I'm going to hire you for two year contract.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Teach me how to be a CEO.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're the number two in the company.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Teach me how to be a CEO.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he was a
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it worked out really well.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's time.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you doing that, delegate it?
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just kept driving.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, you think if you delegate everything, you do, you'll have nothing to do.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But all of a sudden, I'm just doing different things.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now, in the company to start just started growing, growing, growing, growing, growing, growing.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We made ink magazines, fastest growing company twice in three years, which making it once is one thing.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: The second time's hard because you've already got a level.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now, getting 500% growth is pretty hard as you're getting bigger.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: because your numbers are so much bigger, so I'm thinking about the entrepreneur who wants a start in the outdoor space and they're trying to build a company and they start out with an idea or maybe they say, if I may just gizmo that did this better than I could sell that and that's kind of where it starts, I think.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then there's a big difference between being the company and building it around yourself.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you walk away from it, the company's gone.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You are the company in that
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: or building a company where you could walk away in the company can continue to exist and produce and be productive.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do people make that transition?
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how can they make it in time?
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you look at something out there, they want to start a business.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want to develop a product and sell the product.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, go back to my simplest thing, cell one.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one cell one.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, people have these I, if you're going to, if you're going to make a new widget that does something better than anybody else is, make a small quantity of them and sell them.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can't sell one, two,
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're making it like a piece of rock climbing, well, if you can't sell it at your local rock or people at rock climbing, don't create a website and go online and think you're going to sell thousands of these to rock climbers.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can't sell one, and as always, and if you're trying to sell your first product, it's really hard because you don't know how to do it, but you kind of wallo through it, you find you, and also you sell your first one, you're like, okay, cool.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it goes like, tell me what you think.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody else you know
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It pays to go into these things at a micro level, because your risk exposure is so little.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And new entrepreneurs need to go through that door to door salesman phase.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: To, if you meet your product based, there's certain companies that are tech or idea based, where they come out of the gate and just add a big scale, that's a whole different thing.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the investors and all this, all this very complex that I don't get involved.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what was it about your storage system for firearms that set you apart as we have a better solution?
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: What was the, the stick?
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So to speak.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the military, it was simplicity.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really, what was happening is they were transitioning from the M16,
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: which is a 39-in-standard rifle to the M4, which is really a modular weapon system.
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of attachments, it comes in various sizes.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my competitors were all making weapon modular weapon racks, or they'd make a rack.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Big cast, he'll cabinet, and they'd have all these different brackets to hold the guns, so that you get the rack, you get the brackets, and boom, it holds everything in the armory.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, perfectly.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, four months later, they get new equipment or these things change and things are changing and the military once they have something installed, they can't easily go out and buy new components.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not how purchasing.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just hard to do.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So as things change, their armories now, they've got brackets for a certain rifle.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they no longer have that rifle.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've got these new guns.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to use a wrong brackets and it keeps going all send five years later.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've got all these guns and all these cabinets and nothing fits any.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So my system has one moving part.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a patented, we call it the upper cradle, and it holds everything from the smallest of machine gun up the shoulder launch weapon system.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It adjusts on the fly with no tools.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So an armor can walk up to my weapon rack.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: The gun in one hand, open the door, adjust it, store it and walk away.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas my competitor is required to unscrew the brackets, it's a lot of complexity.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we were able to reduce it down to one moving part.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So simple adaptability.
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, simplicity, you know, if you walk in and secure it, the big sign of the wall is big, it says, innovate and simplify.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything can make, anything can make, anybody can make a, can solve a problem with a complex solution.
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Adding layers, adding layers make it work.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you know the guys like Steve jobs with Apple.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you look at when the iPad and the iPhone came out, they were successful because of simplicity.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: There were no buttons.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were just, and like, I don't know that my first iPad.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no directions.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And just like, Tom, just use it.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no directions.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just turn it on.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you start touching it.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, you realize, oh, and you're pretty much an expert at it fairly quickly, because the interface was so simple.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I look at that and everything we do is, you know, the simplest solutions with stand the test of time.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you create a product that simplifies a problem, that solves the problems you're simply simplifying the issues, you've got a good chance of marketing.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you've got a product that becomes, I'm not a big fan of things that get complex quick.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Eventually they become the problem instead of the solution.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, look at look at the auto industry.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just got a, I bought a brand new Ford truck.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I drove it home 23 miles.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a check at the dealership for me.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ford had to buy it back.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: 23 miles home and it died.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Could not start it and they could not solve the problem before.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ford bought it back and I actually got a new truck.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: My new truck, the driver's windows is acting goofy now.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's but the level of complexity in these vehicles is ridiculous.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of vintage cars.
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a store old cars and I've got something tiger at an old Corvette.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're under the dash.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's 15 wires.
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: That F-150.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw the dash taken apart.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's over a thousand wires and it's just the level of complexity and I think
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to drive certain industries.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see a massive change in the automotive industry and complexity is simplicity will replace complexity.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who the players are going to be yet, but I think a lot of the German guys are going to be gone in 20 years.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see them surviving.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, my first car was a 1968 Volkswagen Beetle.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mine was a 71, my wife was a 72.
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got her a 70.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got about simplicity.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got my wife a 71 Volkswagen.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all restored about seven years ago for a birthday.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we still have it.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's fantastic.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's we still take it off for a drive.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a comfortable car to drive.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there are a lot of fun to drive.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the reason I bring it up is because it was designed to be about as simple as as you could make a car.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and it was a separate reason of so that it wouldn't break out of simplicity.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then if it did, it was easy to fix.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, speaking of cars, we have to go into the speed sports.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is an adventure sport as well.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You said you raced for several years, but you're also now planning on trying to set a new record at Bonnet.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's that about?
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: We actually achieved our goal in August.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you did it in August.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we built a class J, a land speed car.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, my car is a 1956 Elmquist Saber, which no one has ever heard of it.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have two of them.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: The first one I found in a field,
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I bought it for $800 as spent about 12 years on a restoration and that car ended up winning a class awarded Amelia Island, which is probably a number two car show in the world, ends up being a very historical car.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not valuable, but a unique piece of history.
• 38:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the car that started the Kit Car industry.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very first car that was marketed, hey, you could build your own sports car.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because sports cars didn't exist in America, not like they didn't Europe, and this
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a guy had a saber body said, Tom, I got a body I'm not using, you can have it.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I gave me a hundred bucks for the body.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my guy that was helping me restore the car, first one.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: He said, what are we going to do with this thing?
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was Bonneville.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, oh, that's good.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I, as a kid, I remember watching ABC's wide world of sports.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: They'd cover Bonneville.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once in a while, remember just as a kid going, what do you need to do in life?
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: End up there doing that.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it took us two years to get the car built.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a class J sports car.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So class J is a motor 750cc or smaller.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's the tiniest engine they run at Bonneville.
• 39:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, motorcycles had bigger in that.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, yeah, this, we're running a Suzuki GSX 750 motorcycle engine in a sedan with a it's got a big Garrett turbo on it and a Haltech EFI system.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can produce 420 horsepower out of that tiny motor.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So as we struggled, we struggled with the setup of the car and for the week we were there, what we finally dialed in, the record was 111.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: We ran 172 as our top speed.
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The trap speed was 161 and then the end of the two runs.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to back it up.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I managed 113, so the record we have on the books is 141.
• 40:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go back, we're going to win tunnel the car right now, and then get some dyno time with the motor.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We still are nowhere near the max power we can make with the engine, and now I want to get over to, I think we can get about 230 out of the car, which
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, a 750cc car, nobody's ever seen, nobody's ever seen a car that small.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go that fast.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually going faster than the next two classes.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Next two, but like the 1000cc, we're actually breaking their records too.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a, it's just a unique marvel of it's little car.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it is tiny.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is, uh, trying to put you compare it to it.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's bigger than a go car, but it's, it's one of the smallest cars, like my little
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is really the, I saw a picture online of one that was royal blue with white stripes.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the street car.
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It looks a little bit like an AC Cobra, but it's 10 years earlier in a lot smaller.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a sweet looking ride.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you this is a few.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I saw the car in a field.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was an eBay.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was a photograph this thing and I was just riding in a field.
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I threw a bit of $800 on one and I cost me more to ship it and then it was a long journey.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's been both of the cars I've got the street car now on the race car and we got invited to the Detroit Auto Rama, which is probably the biggest car show in the world in Detroit and we're going to bring in both cars we've got a little fenced off area with a display
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the history of the Sabers, so to be asking me a lot of, I'm hoping I can get an audience with Jay Leno.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to do an episode of the garage?
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would be fun.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd have to be cool.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in Bonneville, did you drive it?
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'm the driver.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I tell you what, it's my wife is not happy about that.
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, and this is goes to a lot of adventure sports.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: The same thing, because people ask me about, they think it's nuts.
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you want to drive this tiny little cart?
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you want to go 200 miles an hour?
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason, there's nothing to gain.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: My comment, my response was, you know, you can read about Bonneville.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can watch videos and see movie about guys going to Bonneville.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you don't know what it's like unless you've got behind the wheel of the car and done it.
• 42:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you know, I look at life.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Life is about experience and experiences.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I couldn't imagine not, you know, getting to the end of my life and not having that experience.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: because I just hate something, it's, you know, the first runs, you know, we were really restructuring and we're trying to get this car going, it's not going very fast, you know, I'm not worried about speed, I'm worried about screwing up and looking bad in front of all these seasoned racers.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the safety at the way they run this is extremely structured.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then our last run, when we finally get things dialed in, I said, let's change your rear gear and let's do this, let's do that.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, they pushed me off, I pushed the truck, I put the hammer down.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And all of a sudden, I was just, I became more like, oh my God, we're going fast.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my head was pinned to it, and it's an open, so my helmet is sticking out of the car.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a roll cage around me, but my head was pinned against a roll cage.
• 43:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't move it, and the vibrations, without a pad on my helmet, I couldn't read the dash.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could just barely make out the tack and hit the shift points, and the car was just like, I knew if I any input on the steering wheel while I would have spun.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just like, just...
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stay on the track.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep it straight.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rifting to the right, you just kind of thinking or just thinking to the left, I'm going just thinking right, just leaning on the steering wheel a little bit because you don't again, you want really light input.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in the room is over and I look down.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm recording a GPS speed.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was 172 with our top speed.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we hit the rev limiter on the car.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: On the rev with protects the engine, so shut the engine down.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hit the rev limiter at 1.5 miles.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had two more miles to accelerate if I had to get said, had we changed the gearing of the car we would have gone well over 200 miles.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the whole week there, just the whole learning curve, I had my youngest son with me, he's a car kid, and there was a four man, we had a four man crew with us.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a videographer, we're making a little documentary that should be released on YouTube.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a YouTube channel, probably in about a month.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it was probably one of the most amazing weeks of my life.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: and it was a lot of downtime, but you're just this group of four guys, tiniest car, we're the rookies, we weren't supposed to go that.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we weren't simply, I mean, a rookie team setting a record is very unusual, but then destroying it.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we kind of, because we had the smallest car by far at this thing.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a very, very nice looking, we did a really good job at the paint job.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we were just, every time we went anywhere, pushing the car around to the track, everybody's out with a camera's photographing.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just became a very popular, you know, everybody was rooting for us because we were this tiny little team, a very low budget team, you know, coming to this event.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: and kind of shaking the shake in the world a little bit.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a, we made a statement.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now if we come back and run 230, that's a record that'll be on the books.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's going to beat that record because well long time.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody would spend the time and effort to, to get a 750cc motor to run a real-wheel drive car is really hard.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It took us, it took us a long time.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you talked about being in the zone or the flow state when you're, when you're rock climbing, when you're in the car, it's for a much shorter period of time But you have to be hyper focused to make that work.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean you're talking about such a short wheelbase narrow as well, and It man to keep that thing from shaking loose on yet.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you did you get there
• 46:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you do.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because the first runs were shaken the car down.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going that fast.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're in that 105 and it's really more about figuring the car out.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm focused on the mission of hitting my shift points of managing all the tech of the car.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: while I'm driving.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I had a adjustable turbo waste, I had some controls in there.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it does happen very quickly.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very focused on not making a mistake hitting doing the things I'm supposed to do, because we're building data on the car, we run, we download the data, and now we tweak and we're changing, and we're every, so it's like, I want to make sure I'm giving this software a guy what he needs.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then once we got it dialed in, you're still in this high level of focus.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: but it was Mr. Toad's wild ride.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden, I get this big, I'm just laughing in the car and just like, holy crap, I'll be cold.
• 46:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a cool win because none of the guys know, you know, they're back.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: They push me off.
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're in a truck and they push me to about 30 miles an hour when I start going.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then they pull off and they're driving down the side of the track and the access roads when I pull off, they can tow me back.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're listening to a radio station.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that like holy cow this thing this car's on fire It's going so fast and I pulled my pair of pair of shoes.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I slowed them pulled off the track and they came driving up And they're listening on a radio to the to the announcer on a little am station after the track and they announced the car 161 it's second season two guys just flip out in the truck They were hoping I could get 125
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it was the whole experience being out there, too, is just surreal.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just a beautiful area.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't describe what it's like to be out on a salt flat until you're there.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was just a unique, it's like being on the moon.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of people there, but it's so spread out.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You still feel isolated, which I kind of like, kind of like the, you know, our little crew and our little, you know, we had a little pit area.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were pretty, it was just us, the salt, then getting her done.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to the big picture here.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You kind of took the road less traveled by saying, nope, I'm not going to college.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: You learned how to sell, and you learned how to build a business, and you learned how to make the business something bigger than just your one-man show to get it beyond the $4 million.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: You learned about risk tolerant.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to think that the rock climbing had to play a big role in there.
• 48:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: If nothing else, just to clear your head so that the creativity could set in and you could do a better job making the important decisions.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But now you're setting speed records.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's so fun.
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: But can you summarize how adventure sport played into all of them?
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: What did it do for you in a way that might be meaning?
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's the mindset of people who really get into the adventure sports because in the fact that the word adventures in front of them implies something that there's an element of unknown, why is it adventure sport?
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's adventure because
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's there's risks or there's unknown that are going to make it an adventure.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you can you can you can understand the risk prepare for them.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you're going to all these these these pieces and the way it relates to business is best.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I see this in business all the time and decision make.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always tell people when you get to the cliff jump, you will find a spot to land on the way down.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But don't stand there and look.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because that's, you've got to, you've got to make decisions quick and that, you know, in business and I think in adventure sports, like I like, I like the ski a lot.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like the ski fast.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but it's, you know, I use the ski moguls as a kid.
• 49:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm too old the ski moguls now.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just beats me.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I get frustrated.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to carve big, but you're, you're going quick in,
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, at 30, 40, 50 miles an hour on snow, things are coming at you fast and you're making decisions and you have to make the decision because the world's going by you so fast, you have to decide.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: People in business, you don't have to decide.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, again, you can pause at any time and sit in your chair and just read more.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Learn more, get more it, but you know what?
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at decisions all the time and just like, guys, what's the, I always say, what's the biggest decision you're facing?
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they don't have a big decision, you've got to dig more in what you're doing, and then what's preventing you from making that decision?
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any other information that's really going to change?
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, then make the decision go.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And people need to make decisions quickly.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're wrong, of course, correct.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's nothing wrong with being wrong.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: We teach, you hit on it briefly the very beginning, but there's this risk tolerance and winning and losing.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And right now we're raising kids like youth soccer, little kids.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't keep score because they don't want the kids to look, you know what?
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
• 51:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got helicopter parents that aren't allowing their kids to be exposed to any risk whatsoever, and these kids have no capacity to judge risk.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: To actually analyze, is it the risk real or is it a perception or is it just fear?
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't have that ability because they've never, you know, when we were kids, we all went out, you know, we set up jumps and jumped our little bikes over ramps and we climbed out.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We did all sorts of stuff.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you're learning, you know, there's times when you fall and you get hurt, you know, like, okay.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're learning how to do all these.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the, I guess the point to get to it with that is adventure sports requires for the most part quick decision making.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have a lot of time.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with your rock climbingers, I mean, skiing, the ones we are actually, you're moving,
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's coming at you, you gotta decide.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in business, you need that same mentality of make your decisions fast.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're wrong, fail fast, because every time you fail, you learn and keep moving, the other analogy last time I always give people what I'm talking to like,
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: my office or just if I'm talking to a group you're driving down a road you kind of think you know what you're going you're not a hundred percent sure or bingo that's every business you're ever going to run you kind of think you know what you're going but you're not hundred percent sure same with adventure sport you kind of know what this path like the ski trail is but you
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: don't really know what can have it.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there something falling in for what's happening in front of you?
• 52:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're driving and you come to a fork in the road.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't anticipate.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have three choices.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can go left.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can go right.
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can stop and analyze it and figure it out.
• 52:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: The guy that stops and analyzes it will always be in last place.
• 52:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't stop.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: The two cars, the two cars that fork off, or one's going right, one's going wrong.
• 52:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: One that's going right is miles down the road.
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: The one that's wrong, realize it and course corrects and makes a left turn and drives back or going, you know, it's back on the correct path and now they're going.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The guy that's stopped and is analyzing it, he's in the last place and he always is.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: and entering.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So much, so much in business success comes down to don't be afraid to make decisions quickly.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's, or when you really got a big decision and you're having and hanging, don't get too much information.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You probably got enough.
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Make a decision and commit to or say, you know, guys, we're doing it this way.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And on January 3rd, we're going to evaluate all the parameters.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't like it, we're going to make some changes.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: boom, let's go.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, you know, when we're redoing our website website right now.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And to all these questions, they're not, that's fine.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Get it done.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Get it done.
• 53:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get the site up.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once the site's up, we can, we can monitor so much data.
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can make corrections if we have to.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't, don't spend, yeah.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: don't spend, you know, two weeks to make a decision that you can make in two hours.
• 53:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it's so much more important to get something out there and see how it performs, I think.
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Tom, you're the first person that I remember that answered that question in that way that adventure sports, it was about being decisive.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it is, you have to make the decision or you have to crash and burn.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: While I was talking through that, I was realizing,
• 54:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the appeal of adventure sports for those who really like to participate in them?
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's forced decision made.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't procrastinate when you're going 42 miles an hour down a steep hill with some moguls in it.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're so dialed in or you're going beyond your butt sliding.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: You got to take a best shot or you have to be in trouble.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's also why I think you see a lot of people in adventure sports that they do well and you know I've seen a lot of successes.
• 54:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean again you always hear about successes but I think it's that it's quite possibly that decision making is the difference.
• 54:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like that.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a beautiful place to wrap it up, Tom.
• 54:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can people learn more about your business?
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where can they find you?
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just Google my name or Google Secure it is my company Secure it, tactical is a company, but we are all over the way.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: So just the word Secure it as one word will find my company.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Google my name and I've got there's stuff.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Enough stuff out there on social media about what I do and what we do.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so it's been, it's been a lot of fun.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's how long we've been talking like an hour.
• 55:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're not doing an hour.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're exactly an hour right now.
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's always, yeah, we could go another hour without an hour.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You want to speed up time getting involved in a good podcast conversation because we started talking about 12 minutes ago and now it's been an hour.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's exactly right.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is a lot of fun Tom and for everyone out there who needs to hear it again, it's Kubanik and secure it.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Secure it.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Secure it on storage.com, has our website.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and hey, thanks.
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I love to talk to people who said, you know, I'm doing it my way and you made it into something fantastic.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, congratulations.
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you very much, you bet.
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, everyone out there, I love Tom's idea that Adventure Sports force us to be decisive and that's really, really cool.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, another way that Adventure Sports can benefit you.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, whatever your sport is, make sure you keep doing it every day, get out there and have some fun.