Latest / The You Project / #2192 You Can't Save Everyone - Bobby Cappuccio

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#2192 You Can't Save Everyone - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good a champs.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: It's Bobby and Craig. It's the project that's you. Tip's
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: not here. I didn't really look at the thing that
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I should look at. I don't know if she's meant
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: to be here or not. But nonetheless, the two boys
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: are here. The two boys are here, Bobby's here wearing
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: his beret? Is that how you say it? Is it? Bet? Now?
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: This is this is a this is a flat cap.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Oh I didn't join the Guardian Angels.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, the Guardian Are they still around the guard
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  Speaker 2: Guardian Angels.
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  Speaker 1: No, I don't think they are still around. I mean
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  Speaker 1: they were really good. I was growing up in the eighties, right.
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  Speaker 2: They were like a group of dudes who just took
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  Speaker 2: it upon themselves to protect people and be you know,
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  Speaker 2: like unofficial police or guardians around l A, mostly.
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  Speaker 1: Not around New York City. So in New York City
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  Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, the crime was really bad. I
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  Speaker 1: know a lot of people have a lot of stuff
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to say about New York, but if you look at
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  Speaker 1: the crime stats, it's not nearly as bad as people
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  Speaker 1: make it out to be. And I would say from like,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know, nineteen ninety six, to twenty sixteen, it
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  Speaker 1: was a very very safe city. I think it peaked
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  Speaker 1: in safety around twenty eighteen nineteen, just before COVID, if
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  Speaker 1: I got my facts straight. But back in the nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighties that was not the case. So the Guardian Angels
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  Speaker 1: would have a presence on like subways or whatever, trying
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  Speaker 1: to deter crime, protect the general public.
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  Speaker 2: How were they perceived by yeah, the general public because
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  Speaker 2: they weren't an official organization or a sanctioned organization by
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  Speaker 2: the city, I would imagine, But how were they perceived
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know it's tolerated the right word by
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  Speaker 2: the city and the cops and the public.
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  Speaker 1: I think it was all around the mixed opinion. Some
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  Speaker 1: people are like, yeah, all right, you're not cops. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we don't need vigilantes, like piss off, you're not helping
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  Speaker 1: other people. I thought it. They appreciated it like this.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: People were trying to do something on behalf of the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: general public. Yeah, so I think some people really were
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  Speaker 1: a fan. Some people weren't like anything. But that was
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  Speaker 1: that was the climate back in the nineteen eighties, and
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  Speaker 1: the Guardian Angels were a fixture. Like if you remember
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  Speaker 1: New York in the eighties. You remember, you remember some
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  Speaker 1: really cool stuff. You remember not some cool stuff, but
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  Speaker 1: you had your squeegy people. You had your guardian Angels.
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  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, if you're and into a Guardian Angel,
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  Speaker 1: it wouldn't ruin your day. Squeechy person, not so much.
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  Speaker 2: What's this? That's someone trying to wipe your window? Clean
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  Speaker 2: your window.
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  Speaker 1: The squeegy people were someone who would as your entry.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: It sounds nice.
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  Speaker 2: An offshoot of the Jesus people or that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the bloody hippies, the squeegeye people.
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  Speaker 1: There you going no they Yeah, they were squeegy people.
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  Speaker 1: And if you were coming into the city, like let's
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: say you were going through the Holland Tunnel they weld,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you'd be in traffic and they would come up you
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, they would try to clean your window. Now,
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  Speaker 1: by clean your window, they would make it much dirtier
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  Speaker 1: than there already was. But if they just dirt around
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  Speaker 1: it was gross. But a lot of times they would
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  Speaker 1: harass people. You know, they get a bit volatile. If
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  Speaker 1: you didn't have them clean your windows, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: anybody missed them once they were gone. That was one
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  Speaker 1: of the things that they started cleaning up back in
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  Speaker 1: the Giuliani.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we had this. We probably still have the
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  Speaker 2: same people out there trying to earn a buck or
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  Speaker 2: make a living or survive or you know, doing the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: same thing. Yeah, there's there's what's the homeless like in
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  Speaker 2: New York? I know in LA it's like it's kind
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  Speaker 2: of out of control. Well, if you listen to Joe Rogan,
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  Speaker 2: it's out of control. It's it's you know, like half
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  Speaker 2: a million people or some crazy number or I don't
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  Speaker 2: know it is.
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  Speaker 1: It's it's starring in some places. I mean, it depends
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  Speaker 1: on where you go, like where and where are you
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: talking about bel Air? You're talking about Malibu? Are you
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  Speaker 1: talking about skid row in downtown La? So it's very different.
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  Speaker 1: I lived in downtown San Diego and it was jarring.
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  Speaker 1: Where in New York, I'm sure we have our fair
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  Speaker 1: share of homeless people, but it blends in with the environment.
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  Speaker 1: It's not nearly as noticeable as it is in San Diego.
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  Speaker 1: Let's says it's a rough situation.
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  Speaker 2: How do you had this experience the other day and
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  Speaker 2: I was not the best version of myself. I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to say that, like I've anyway, I try. I try
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  Speaker 2: to walk my talk, and I think most of the
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: time I'm in the ballpark, but not always. But I'm
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  Speaker 2: always interested in how I take an interest in people
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  Speaker 2: who live on the street and people who are genuinely struggling,
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  Speaker 2: and if I can do something help, I'll do that.
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  Speaker 2: So something usually, probably not all the time, if I
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: don't have the awareness or whatever. But the other day
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  Speaker 2: I walked from the gym and just there's a little
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  Speaker 2: kind of shopping center where the gym is very small,
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  Speaker 2: like ten shops, eight shops, and I had to walk
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  Speaker 2: from the gym and past a booze shop, and then
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  Speaker 2: just past the booze shop there's a little left turn
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  Speaker 2: into a little alcove and then there's the seven eleven.
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  Speaker 2: I realized that's not the premiere location in Australia for coffee,
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  Speaker 2: but nonetheless I get an extra shot. It's tolerable. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: go home, I have my coffee, I sit down, I
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  Speaker 2: do work, and probably to my own nervous systems detriment,
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  Speaker 2: I'm reasonably productive from then on. But I walked around
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  Speaker 2: the corner and there was a gentleman there. Because I
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  Speaker 2: don't even know thirty to fifty kind of hard to
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  Speaker 2: figure out in this kind of dirty, messy coat with
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  Speaker 2: stuffed blankets, and it was just a it was like
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  Speaker 2: quite confronting. And I just turned the corner and he
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  Speaker 2: was a meter and a half away, and I just
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  Speaker 2: kept going. I didn't look at him, I didn't acknowledge
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  Speaker 2: him like I saw him. But and as soon as
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  Speaker 2: I walked past him, I felt shame and guilt, right,
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  Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to do with that. And
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  Speaker 2: then I got inside, and you know, if there's a God,
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  Speaker 2: it was like God was gone, come on, mister, walk
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  Speaker 2: your talk, come on.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: I just felt bad. And I never have cash, but
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  Speaker 2: I had a little bit of cash on me fortuitously,
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  Speaker 2: so I went right. And I'm not trying to sound great,
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  Speaker 2: but I normally don't have cash, so I couldn't have
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: but I did. I had some, and I went, all right, well,
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  Speaker 2: I'll go out, did my thing, got my coffee, walked out,
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  Speaker 2: and I looked at him, actually walked up to him,
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  Speaker 2: you know, looked him in the eye. He couldn't He
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  Speaker 2: had a disability, so he was very difficult to understand.
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  Speaker 2: And I kind of wished him well and told him
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I hope, you know, he could stay warm, and it
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  Speaker 2: was also it was raining, so he was shoved in
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  Speaker 2: this little alcove and the overhang verandah kept the rain
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  Speaker 2: away from him from his body by about maybe two feet,
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  Speaker 2: so he had to scooch right back to actually just
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  Speaker 2: be dry. So I gave him some dough and I
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  Speaker 2: walked away, and I just thought, all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: I had. The guilt continued and the shame continued, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to go home now, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to drive that well it's not a fancy cap.
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to drive that nice, warm, safe car home
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  Speaker 2: to that nice warm safe house. I'm going to open
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  Speaker 2: my fridge full of food and my pantry full of food,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm going to I'm going to turn on the heater,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm going to walk in my fucking plush carpet
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  Speaker 2: in my bare feet, and I'm just going to have
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  Speaker 2: a big fucking mountain of food and I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: watch whatever I'm going to. You know, it was for
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  Speaker 2: me quite I didn't know what to do with that,
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  Speaker 2: and I still don't know what to do that with that.
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  Speaker 2: But I feel like, and I've probably only said this
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  Speaker 2: to two people. But I feel like part of my
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  Speaker 2: life moving forward will be doing something if not in
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  Speaker 2: that space, in a space where people are in some
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  Speaker 2: way disadvantaged. It may not be homelessness, it might be
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  Speaker 2: something else. But every time I'm in the proximity of
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  Speaker 2: people who are in real pain and in the kind
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  Speaker 2: of the shadow of my very shiny, comfortable, easy life,
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  Speaker 2: I feel very convicted. So I don't know what I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to do with that. But what about you? Like
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  Speaker 2: when you because you must walk past that time, so
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  Speaker 2: many people with so many needs, But do you have
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  Speaker 2: a strategy? Are you numb to that? I'm not saying
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  Speaker 2: you're a bad person, but are you like at at
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  Speaker 2: some stage you've got to keep walking. You can't stop
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  Speaker 2: for every person.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like, what has happened to me living in
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  Speaker 1: a place where you're just inundated with homelessness. I have
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  Speaker 1: desynthesized myself a little bit. Like if anybody asks me
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  Speaker 1: for food, I'm gonna give them food. And they asked
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  Speaker 1: me like for something to drink, I'll get them something
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  Speaker 1: to drink. Like if you ask me for anything within reason,
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  Speaker 1: I'll do it. But I noticed that a lot of
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  Speaker 1: times I'm putting my blinders on because every time I
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  Speaker 1: leave my house. And one of the reasons why I
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  Speaker 1: moved out of downtown San Diego was we realized we
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  Speaker 1: weren't leaving our house, we weren't going for nightly walks,
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  Speaker 1: we weren't very active, like in terms of day to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: day like I would go to the gym in my building,
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  Speaker 1: which was really nice, but I would try to like
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  Speaker 1: not leave as often as I could, and that's not good.
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  Speaker 1: But I started noticing that I am not noticing as much.
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  Speaker 1: New York is very different. Where in New York I
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  Speaker 1: felt a lot more connected to people, where I would
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  Speaker 1: notice something and if I could proactively do something without
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  Speaker 1: being intrusive, I would. And I noticed in San Diego
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  Speaker 1: I was not that person. And either I'm becoming cold
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  Speaker 1: and heartless or I guess it was maybe so much
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  Speaker 1: that I haven't been the best version of myself. But
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  Speaker 1: you would have to engage me in order for me
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  Speaker 1: to notice, and that is something I'm really well aware of.
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  Speaker 2: Sorry, do you think that there's a a functional or
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  Speaker 2: operational tipping point for empathy, like you can get to
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  Speaker 2: the point where you're actually doing yourself harm?
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  Speaker 1: Now?
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  Speaker 2: Because you'll constantly this definitely not me, by the way,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: but like and this is not the right term, but
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you know people who I was going to say, people please,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: it's not the right term, but constantly trying to save
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  Speaker 2: and help everybody to the point where now they're kind
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  Speaker 2: of fucking themselves up and their own health is suffering
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and their own life is suffering, and it is there.
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  Speaker 2: You know, this is just a conversation. This is not
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  Speaker 2: either of our areas of expertise, but like, when do
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  Speaker 2: you know that's it? I can't like for today anyway,
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  Speaker 2: I've got to shut this down to I can't stop again.
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  Speaker 2: Or it might be just even as a coach, where
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you know, there are a lot of people in my
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  Speaker 2: life that I only get a message a text from
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  Speaker 2: when something's bad, like they want something, and sometimes you
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  Speaker 2: get those messages from twenty people in a day, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, I can't do all the things I have
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to do today and record three podcasts and talk to
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  Speaker 2: my parents or visit my parents, or do this research
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I've got to do because I'm submitting my research very
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  Speaker 2: all these things, Like so how do you self regulate
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  Speaker 2: and recognize what finance, what emotional dollars to spend and
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  Speaker 2: what to keep in the bank.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like that's a huge question because self awareness
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  Speaker 1: is the key to a lock on change, and for me,
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  Speaker 1: it's a few things. One, am I getting so caught
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  Speaker 1: up in emotional contagion empathetic contagion where I can't self
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  Speaker 1: regulate anymore? Or Two? Am I mostly focused on my
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: feelings and my struggle in the face of somebody else's
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: issue more than them? And have I found myself able
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to be compassionate in the past? And for me, I'm
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: going to define compassion to where your empathy leads you
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: to take an action on behalf of someone. Where is
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that something that's harder and harder for you to do?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: And for me, these are all warning signs. I remember
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: when I was going through burnout for at least eighteen months.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: There was an eighteen month period I had literally nothing left,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: like even conversations were painful for me, like a phone
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: call would just exhaust me where I couldn't function After
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  Speaker 1: When you're at that point, you need to step back
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: because you hit the nail on the head. If you
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: really want to help people, you want to be someone
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  Speaker 1: that lifts other people up and contributes for whatever reason
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  Speaker 1: moves you to do that. You can't minister to absolutely
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: every need. You can't solve every problem, so you have
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to really choose where can I be effective one where's
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: my locus of control? Because I could give a lot
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of effort to something and not move the needle at all,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: like I think, maybe the bad example. But arguing on
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: social media, we talked about this in the past. I
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: could argue with every obnoxious, inhumane comment and at the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: end of the day, I didn't shift anything except I've
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: exhausted myself. So now when I'm in a position we're
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: given my resources, environment and context, I can be of value.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I have nothing left in that moment. So that's something
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to think about. And I noticed that. And it's like
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: when downtown there were certain things that were highly disruptive
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and I would find myself losing empathy just I don't
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: know if that was me getting cold or if that
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: was a matter of necessity, but it's like, you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: you people are the cost of living is skyrocketing down there,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and there were broken windows, and there's human wastes every where,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and it's just like it just keeps piling and I
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: know that there are so many reasons. There's so much
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: complexity to life. So if you've got three hundred people
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: that are homeless in your area, they're there for a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: variety of reasons that you know nothing about. But still,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I think the collective impact pushes me anyway into a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: direction where it's like I need to tune out. So
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I think that's something very real in day to day work.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I used to talk about this concept, which sounds unrelated,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: but I'll come back to what we're talking about. With
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: my trainers, of whom you met many and even taught
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: and coached over the years, that about your performance threshold
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: or your your shit threshold, And I'd say, your shit
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: threshold is when all right, So hi, folks, I don't
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: know what you missed or what you got then, because
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: both of our screens just shut down and zoom just
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: went away, and then I was just talking to my
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: drink bottle. So we're talking. I was talking about this
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: idea of, you know, basically, how how much of doing
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: a good thing can we do at a level. And
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I was comparing you know, caring for people, being empathetic
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: for people, serving people, helping people with like on the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: gym floor, I would say to my trainers, how many
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: hours of this can you do per day where everyone's
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: getting the same high quality of service and care and attention.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And some of those truly it was four. And some
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: of them would come back to me and they'd be like, oh, twelve.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you can't do twelve. You can do twelve sessions,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: but can you do twelve? Brilliant, amazing.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to see what those sessions actually look like,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: because it's very different if you tell me four, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's not leasiness, I think that your four
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: sessions look very different than the other person's twelve.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and just that yeah, the physical and the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: mental and the cognitive and the emotional toll or cost.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're with someone for an hour and
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you genuinely buy in and it is all about them,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and you're not thinking about dinner, you're not thinking about
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: looking at your fucking phone, you're not talking to the
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: other trainers across the room. You're just plugged into this
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: human being and all that matters for one hour is
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that person. All that matters is this workout, this experience,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: this outcome that we're working towards. Right doing that for
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: twelve hours a day, you know. I mean I had
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: a very very big threshold and I could not do
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: twelve amazing sessions a day. I would do twelve often,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: but I know there were you know, three, four, five
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: that were probably a six or seven out of ten a.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Row as a personal trainer would wake me out completely. Yeah,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: So any I was as focused as I could have
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: been anyway.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Back to this kind of empathy threshold, you know, is
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: knowing I think how much you have in your emotional
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: compassion empathy tank, and at what point you continuing is
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: actually bad for them and you because they're not getting
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: great you, they're getting compromised you. And when you go
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: away and reboot and recharge, plug yourself back into whatever
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: it is that lights you up and re energizes you,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: then you can show up again and be the best
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: version of you. And whether or not that's helping people
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: on the street, or whether or not that's in your career,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: or whether or not that's with your partner. Like sometimes
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Melissa will ring me and she will want to talk
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: about a business thing, and it's eight pm, and I
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: know that I'm running on three cylinders, not eight, and
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I go I am really interested and I'm not deflecting,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: but I know that you will get a much better
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: outcome if we chat about this at eight am tomorrow
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: not eight pm tonight. I'm interested, I'm excited, but right now,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: my concentration, my focus, my cognitive ability or performance is low.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So you just recognize that and you I mean, that's
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: all part of as you said, self awareness, self regulation.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, how do I optimize me so that I'm
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: good for me but also good for others.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: There's been three principles that have worked well for me,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and the first one I learned from I learned from Amy,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: which is quit every day, like no matter what you're
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: doing within your drive, and that example with Melissa's perfect
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: where I I feel like sometimes it's like, all right,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna knock off work. It's eight o'clock, but you
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: don't you think about work, right, You're ruminating, you're dwelling
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: on it, and like take all your problems and all
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: your concerns, everything that you're worried about, everything anxious about,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: everything that you need to solve for, like put that
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: down in a journal. I think that's a way of
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: like taking all of your cognitive load and putting it
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: into a place where you know all of your problems
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and concerns will be there tomorrow. You've put them in
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: a book, and then quit, like quit your job. Be
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: like I've just quit, and don't revisit it, don't think
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: about it, do something else, unplug, do something mindless, or
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: do something that takes a little bit of focus, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: it's a bit divorced from your work, yet you still
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. That's one principle. Second principle, and this you're
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: talking about your trainers, and I would work with trainers
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: on this. You're responsible for effort, not outcome. If you're
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: putting the effort with other people, don't become attached to
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: what they will or will not do, because that's something
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that I think completely depletes us. So if you know
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that you're doing everything you can to, let's say serve
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a client and they go home and they do something
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: that you put a value on being bad like I'm
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: going to reach for the pint of ice cream, that
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: is not on you respect people's autonomy and their decisions.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: So that's the second one is you're responsible to effort,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: not outcome. And the third one I got that out
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of it I got this from the movie adaptation. It
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: was brilliant with Nicholas Cage. You are what you love,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: not what loves you like. Put out love into the
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: world because of who you want to be and what
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: it means to you, not because of how people will
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: respond to it. I know that is easier said than done,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: especially since I have really fallen short there so often.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: This was a beautiful scene in the movie adaptation. So
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: it's about two twin brothers, Charlie and Donald Kaufman and
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: starring Nicholas Cage and co starring well Nicholas Cage, and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: there's this one scene where one of the brothers, Donald
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: was talking to Charlie and he's like, oh, you remember
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that girl back in high school, Sarah, And he's like,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: oh yeah. Instantly you could see him go back. He's like,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: you were so in love with her, and it's like
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: in his mind he's imagining this girl. He's like, right
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: back in high school, right back in love with her.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And then Donald says, you know, there's something I never
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: told you, And do you remember one day you were
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: outside the library and you were just talking to her
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and then you walked away and you just kind of
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: like had this look on your face where you had
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: never been happier. And he's like, oh, man, I remember
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that conversation. I remember that is so I didn't know
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: how to tell you this, but when I was looking
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: through the library window watching this, and as soon as
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you walked off, she went to her friends and physically
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: was making fun of you. And it hurt me because
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: you know, he was his twin brother in a way.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: It was like she was making fun of me and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: she was so cruel. And this is brilliant. Charlie says, yeah,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I know. I knew. And he's like, you knew she
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: was making fun of you. And he's like yeah. He's like, well,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: how could you love someone so much who was so
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: cruel to you? And he said, well, I loved Sarah
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and the love I had for her that was the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: best thing in my life when I was in high school.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And that was for me. That had nothing to do
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: with her. Nobody, not even Sarah, could take that from me.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: He's like, Donald, you are what you love, not what
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: loves you. I thought, wow, is that powerful? Because we
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: have all these stories.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: That is a nice story, but fuck, that would be
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: hard to live in the middle of. As a reality
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: where you love somebody, you know that you really love
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: somebody that doesn't love you, and not only do they
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: not love you, they insult you. You know that's yeah,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: But that's a self esteem podcast right there.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Anything worth having is hard, right, It's hard to attain
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it's hard to maintain. But I think it
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: disconnects you from having this rumination around expectation and wearing
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: yourself out. Like, if I give you love, that's one
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: for me, and you can't take that for me. Two.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Once I give it to you, it belongs to you.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You can love me back. You cannot love me. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I know, as hard as that principle has been for me,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: there have been times when I've lived in alignment with it,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and oh my god, does it take a load off
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: of you because the things you're doing becomes about who
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you want to be in the moment, and you're talking
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to someone who is a perpetual, chronic people pleaser. So
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that level of acceptance, accept me, love me. It's been
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: at the core of my personality and it's been a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: struggle with me for so many years. It really does help.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: You, Okay, So I want to juxtaposition this all over you.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So we were talking about Okay, pay attention, it'll it'll
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: become apparent. So we go, all right, we need to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: figure out how many hours or how much of a
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: thing can I do while I'm still giving my best
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: and being my best and doing my best for the person.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: You know, we need to look after us. We need
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to recharge our tank. Da da da. And I just
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: when I do a podcast, I'm always thinking about how
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: is what we're saying being interpreted by the people who listen.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: What are different ways of looking at or experiencing or
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: interpreting what we're saying where somebody might go, yeah, that
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: makes sense. I definitely like, you know, we need to
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: look after ourselves so we can look after others and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: we can get up in the morning and we can
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: be you know. And I understand that, Craig when you
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: say to Melissa, da da da. But then there are
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the people that don't have the luxury of because they
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: might have a disabled child twenty four hours a day
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and they can't go too much hard work on bugget,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: or they might just have three kids that require a
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: lot of the tension, and two of them don't sleep
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: well at the moments, and Mum and Dad have both
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: got a job and life is tricky and you know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah, and the experiential reality for them
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: is hard, and it's hard in a myriad of ways.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And when I wake up in the morning, it's ill,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: still all there. You know, it hasn't gone away.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: What about? What about that?
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm not looking for some wise philosophical answer, but
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: because a lot of people can't. You know, you're you're
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: or you're not single, but you're you don't have kids, right,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I don't have kids. I have very it's so easy.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: But it's so easy for you and me because we
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: don't live like You and me are not normal in
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: that we are not the typical fifty slash sixty year
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: old men most you know, like my life is fucking Disneyland.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So I totally acknowledge that I can't have the perspective
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: of somebody who's in the middle of the shipfest because
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not there. So I'm trying to be sensitive and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: aware because all the stuff we're saying here is theoretically
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: great for you and me, But what about our listeners
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: that aren't you and me, that are nothing like you
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: and me? That they're they're day to day in environment, situation, circumstance,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: reality is you know a mountain of hardships on top
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of ours. Well, I think one that's not no pressure, right,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: no pressure.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Now that's a real situation though, And I work with
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: people all the time that probably fit into the category
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that you're talking about right now. And I think it's
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: it's important to say because a lot of times on
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: social media you'll hear somebody say something and yeah, it
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: might be fundamentally true, but not universally true for every
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: person in every situation. And I know, like I've had
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: businesses before where like after after you're done paying all
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: your expenses, I didn't even know like how I was
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: going to pay money for rent next month, and you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: can't put it in a park for ten seconds. So
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I understand the pressure that's involved with that. And sometimes
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: you can't really change what's demanded of you or what
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: you do, but how you approach it. And this is
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: an example where you're responsible for effort, not outcome, Like
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: you can only do everything that you're able to do,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: but no more so that that's one thing you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: somebody asked me in very close to what you're asking
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: me right now in a seminar. Well, you're talking about
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: your values and doing things you love. I hate so
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: much of my job and my work. If I don't
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: do it, my family is in a lot of trouble.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: So what do you say there? And not having a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: complete answer, I can say there were times where there
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: were aspects of my work that I absolutely hated and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I had to sit back and go, Okay, one, what's
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the meaning of this? Like in what way if this
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: can't be enjoyable, it's actually meaningful? And I'll give you
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the example I gave them. One of the things I
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: hated doing early in my career is my boss thought
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: that I was a quote unquote motivator of people, which
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. So every time somebody called to quit the gym,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: they get Bobby on the phone. Bobby's gonna save them. Now.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I hated this job for a few reasons. One, the
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: level of expectation was if I came out and they
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: still joined the gym, everybody was astonished and disappointed. So
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: tons of pressure there. Two people were calling to join
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the gym, and a lot of times they had a grievance.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: So I get on the phone, they really weren't patient
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to talk to me about it, so you would get
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of abuse, And I was like, I hate this.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: But then I started to think, how many people are
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: really angry and they can't see past their own face
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: right now, And if I can ask some questions, and
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: if my goal is not to get them to stay
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: in the gym or not, but to identify what they're
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: feeling and try to shift that feeling a little bit
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: so that they could think more clearly about what they
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: want and whether or not the next decision they're about
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to make supports that it works against that. What if
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that one decision changes someone's entire life? So that would
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: have meaning for me. It would also bring in a
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: little bit of enjoyment because it wasn't about success or failure.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: For me, it was about gamifying literally where someone was
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: emotionally and seeing if I could do something to reduce
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: a negative emotion, or was there something I could say,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: or was there a space I could hold that would
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: kind of elevate a positive emotion. So it kind of
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: became like a game detaching from the outcome. And I
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: know that's different. If you have a sick kid, you
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: might not be able to make that detachment. But what's
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the meaning, what's the value that this represents, what are
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the possibilities here? And how can I reframe this on
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a behavioral level rather than like up chunking this into
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: all the things I got to deal with today? So
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think future perspective makes a big difference,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: like what's most important for the next hour in my
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: life versus what do I have to do this afternoon
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: or do I have to complete today? Now, Hey, if
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: there was one thing within thirty minutes even that I
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: think is important, what is that most important thing? And
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: then can I disconnect even for five minutes. So it's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a matter of how you approach it and how you
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: frame it. None of that makes hardships go away. And
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: also recognizing that two things could be true at once.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: It could be true that yeah, this sucks, and yes
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I need this job, and yes, you know I might
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: not I might not really enjoy where I'm at at
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the moment. But the thing that's also true is this
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: can be fulfilling. I can get through this, I can
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: have meaning even in the absence of enjoyment, and I
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: don't have to tackle the totality of everything that's in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: front of me. Maybe just the one thing right now. Yeah,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: it's complicated. Many times over the years, as you would have.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Somebody asked me the other day how many actual PT
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: sessions I did, and I can't be I don't know
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: within a thousand, but it was definitely it was definitely
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: around fifty thousand. So you think that's fifty thousand conversations.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And I had lots of conversations with people who didn't
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: like their job, and lots of other things. But let's
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: just stay with the job. And many times, not because
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I did anything amazing, amazing, but many times I was
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: talking to somebody and let's say they're thirty four. They
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: hate their job, but the pay's pretty good. So there's
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: that they hate the culture, they don't like the boss,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: they don't like the actual work itself. It's not rewarding
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: or fulfilling for them. But as you said, they make
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: enough dough to keep the kids and the family financially
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: safe for now and all of those things. So it's
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: this kind of on the one hand, it's good. On
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the other hand, I hate it, right, And so I
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: used to say to them something like, all right, what
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: forget the practicality or the time frame or the likelihood
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: or the logic. What would you actually just like to do? Like,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: what would you forget? You know, don't find nine reasons
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: why you couldn't do it, But if there was no barrier,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: what would you like to do? And sometimes they'd tell me,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: actually have a bunch of examples, but I'll tell you one.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: But that tell me I would love to be You know,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: this is when I actually had I would love to
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: be a vet. So one of the guys that I
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: used to train loved animals. He was an accountant and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: he was good at accountancy, but he fucking hated it.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: But he always had dogs and he was always interested
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: in everyone else's dogs and he was just a dog person,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: just an animal person. Blah blah blah. And he said
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: something like, well, I'd actually love to be a vet,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: a vet, but that you know that boat has sailed,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that ship has sailed. I'm like why, And I said,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: why don't you do this? I go, just as an exercise,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: figure out if you started figure out one firstly, where
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: you can do vet science and if it's possible to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: do it part time. And this was just when the
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: internet was coming in see if there's like a I
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: probably didn't word it like this, but a hybrid version
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: where you can do a bit online, some in classroom
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: and could you start doing ten hours a week and yes,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: you'll be busy, blah blah blah. And then theoretically, how
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: long might it take because maybe you wake up and
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: you're not thirty three. Maybe you wake up and you're
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: thirty nine, and now you're a vet. Now you're working
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: with animals all day. Now you live it, you know,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And that guy did exactly that, he did exactly that.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It took him till he was I don't know, it
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: probably took seven years in total, and he's still a vet.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and it just worked out that way. But
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I said, we don't need so you're an accountant today.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: That's not happy. We don't need to be a vet
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: next tuesday. But if we start the wheels turning, if
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: we create momentum, you know, let's say you're a vet
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: at forty, for example, you're going to spend the next
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: two and a half three decades doing something that you love,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: getting paid pretty well, an environment you like, with creatures
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that you like. And I think we can apply that
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: kind of idea across lots of different context and challenges,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: as long as we don't need instant change, like there'll
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: be a period of time where, you know, like without
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: trying to make it about me at all. But so
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I submit in eighteen days, we're recording on the second.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I submit my PhD on the twentieth and it's over
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: six years, and there's just been six years that were
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: not very much fun. And really I didn't enjoy a
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: lot of it. I enjoy the fact that I'm objectively
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: that I'm doing this thing. I'm running this research, I'm
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: gaining insight awareness, I'm bringing new science into the world
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. Yep. Sure, I'm writing papers, I'm getting published.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: It's exciting, but the actual boots on the ground process
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: is fucking horrible. Like most PhDs will tell you that
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: it's not a fun, enjoyable process. The outcome is nice,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: but you go, well, the thing that you want might
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: take five years, it might take two years, it might
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: take six years. And as painful as it is or
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: as inconvenient as it is, we can't click our fingers
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: most of us, some of us will just get an
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: amazing job offer, and we're often running and it happens
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: in a week. But for the majority, it's about figuring out, well,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: where am I now and where do I want to be?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: What would This is not optimal, This is not enjoyable,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: this is not fun cool. We acknowledge that, now, one
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: what is the thing that would be highly desirable for you?
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: And two what are the decisions that you need to make?
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: And three what are the things that you need to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: do to make that theoretical idea or that theoretical life
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: or reality your life or reality? And this is one
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: of the problems with personal growth broadly speaking. Sometimes it's
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: a long, shitty and fun process, but the outcome is great.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: All that, all that is absolutely true for me. What
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I think is also there is Sometimes you gotta ask
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: yourself why do you want what you want? Like a veterinarian,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I love animals, That's pretty straightforward. I love animals. I
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: want to care for them, right. I want them to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: feel safe, nurtured, be healthy. That's that's fantastic. But for
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: other people it's like, just because what it is you
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: want didn't show up the way you thought it should
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: show up doesn't mean you can't have it. So yeah,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I want it to be in the theater. And I
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: remember that because I would watch movies or I would
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: watch plays and go, ah, you know what, I would
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: love to do that and create that experience for people.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: And then my stepdad, you know, I would voice that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and like literally he would kick the living shit out
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of me. Men don't do that, all right, So that
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: was that was his response. Or I would start writing
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: essays and he would read them out loud. He would
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: find them, go through my go through my room when
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I wasn't there, and then read it and market So
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I thought, ah, you know what, maybe this just isn't
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: for me, and I got into the gym business, which
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: he approved of because you know, it was a quote
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: unquote man thing great. But then if you if you,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: if you look at it, like, why did I want
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: to do that? Is it the outfits, the fancy dress?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Is it the tights in headgear?
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Is that what I wanted to wear? Some cool hats? Yeah? Maybe,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: but that wasn't That wasn't it for me. I wanted
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to create a context in or frame to where I
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: can communicate in a way where people felt something, where
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: people were moving and it evoked transformation either in the
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: way they felt in the moment, the way they thought
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: about something or an action they took something they did.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Oh well, in the fitness industry, I found myself on
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: stage doing exactly that with tools and strategies and resources
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: where people cannot only do that for themselves, but take
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: what they're learning and help others. So I got what
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I wanted, but it wasn't in the way that I
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: thought I was going to get it. So, yes, if
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: you did love your job, what would be different and like,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: what would you be doing differently? What would be the focus? Okay,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: well why are those things important? If you're really dissected?
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Is it the thing or is what the thing means?
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, best time in my life is when I went
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: on holiday? Well what wasn't about the holiday? Well, as
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: with people I really loved? Okay, so was it that
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: you were with them by a waterfall or was it
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I could really unplug and spend time I'm completely focused
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: on people I care about. Jeez, that's important. Now the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: reality of is it? I can't like go to a
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Fiji every week, but can I spend fifteen minutes in
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: a day recreating that and being totally present for people? Yeah?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: So sometimes you don't get what you want and the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: way you expected it. And when you're on that bridge
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: in recreating your life, like accounting to vet, what can
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: you do daily that kind of brings some of that
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: into your life. I mean, like, this person's a vet. Great,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: but maybe I could foster a pet while I'm in accounting,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you know, and I could spend time with that animal,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: making that animal feel safe and cared for, nurtured. And
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: that's only going to increase my motivation and the proximity
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of the reward as I'm on my way to becoming
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: a vet.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: And Marian, you know what I think about about you?
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I think and people who don't know Bobby, well, there's
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: one hundred episodes with him in it. Because you had
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: a very tough childhood. You were abused physically, mentally, emotionally, verbally,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: like and we've heard lots of stuff and I can't
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: even begin to imagine how hard it was. And I
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: don't feel guilty, but I definitely have an awareness that
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: my childhood was Disneyland compared to yours. And I wonder
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: if you the same. You grew up in a different
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: place with different parents, and you went to a school
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: where you were embraced and loved and supported and challenged
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: in the way that you needed to be challenged. And
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: you had parents that loved you no matter what, but
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: also told you when you would being a dickhead. But
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: they just you know, there was never any abuse, and
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: you basically were given all the opportunities that you wouldn't
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: need to flourish, as well as there being consequences for
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: when you being a dickhead. Right, I wonder how you
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: would be now. I wonder if you know, not to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: sixteen or eighteen, that was your experience with no abuse,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: with just the normal kid challenges. Right. We're not talking
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: about growing up in a Disney movie, you know, but
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: just that normal, healthy, loving, nurturing great dad, great mom,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: a couple of siblings that you had some issues with,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: but you ultimately loved each other. Fun experiences, tough experiences,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: but surrounded by good people and good energy. Do you
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: ever think about what you would be and who you
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: would be all the time?
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And I think, in some ways I would be a
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: better person, in some ways I'd be worse. But here's
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the reality. Here's something I'm painfully aware of, and none
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: of what I'm saying, right, I was meant to be
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: insensitive to anyone's situation because I always understand that the
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: world is so much bigger than I am, and if
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: somebody is struggling with something, I don't have an opinion
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: of how they should engage with it. Like the other day,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I was reading a post that says, as a grown man,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: you should be ashamed to ever say you have trauma.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: That's not a thing that men should still be dealing with.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Make a different something. Yeah, it was the stupidest, most unlike,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: tell me you know shit about behavior psychology and neuroscience
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: and being a human being without telling me you know
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: shit about that, like idiotic stuff. But everyone who's suffering
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: and look at and angry about it and looking for
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that type of stance to leverage off of is like, yeah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: that's absolutely that's absolutely true. And you know it's like
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: if I just stay with this line of thought, I
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: can get out of this. So you've got You've got that.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: But some of the things I'm painfully aware of is
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: nobody or very very few people could give a shit
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: less of what you went through as a kid. Very
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: few people care that I was tortured as a kid.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Very few people care that I got brain damage, and
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: it's very hard for me to emotionally regulate and function
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: day to day like truly nobody cares and like it
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: like I've even worked with people who in meetings are
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: very empathetic to people like me, but not me in
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: the real world. You know, in conversation, absolutely, and that's
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: fine because the truth of the matter is for me.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, when I'm when I'm at my best, how
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: do I use this? What benefit does my experience serve
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: for the person I want to be in other people?
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And I was taught talking about this out of college
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: very reluctantly because I know how this might sound to
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: people and how it comes off. But the only time
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: people care about what you went through is when you're
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: able to tell a story about your experiences that has
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: very little to do with you. It's the listener, it's
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: the participant who's the hero of your story. It's truly
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: about them. And that's what that has been for me,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: a powerful coping mechanism. So when you're in the middle
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: of a shit show, hold, I just want to finish this.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: When you're in the middle of a shit show in
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: your life, who one question to ask? Not when you're
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: like in the middle of something that's urgent and emerging.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: But when you get a break, who am I becoming
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: as a result of this? That can make me useful
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: or that makes this meaningful, or that can make me
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: more of someone who I would be proud of. Because
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: sometimes even like when you're going through pain and suffering,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: but there's meaning attached to that, you're able to endure
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: it to a much greater degree. And then again that
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: comes back to you are what you love, not what
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: loves you, because when you go out there and you
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: use that and you share that, not everybody's going to
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: connect to it, but some people will. And I think
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: that meaning is what when I was younger, took me
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: from being lost, like what do I do to Wow?
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: This didn't happen to me in a way, this all
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: happened for me because it helps me do the work
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I want to do now and connect to people that
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: most people overlook and that makes it Is that true?
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it made a difference.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about you in that room where everyone collectively
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: would have compassion for or whatever care about or awareness
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: of somebody with a disability, and you know, being what
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: doing the right things, whatever that means. But then there's
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: you in the room and they're not delivering, like despite
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: the fact that they you know, they have this alleged
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: asterisk standard of how to treat people with, you know,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: some kind of disability or intellectual issue, cognitive issue, brain injury,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But I want to know, do those
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: people in that room know that you have a brain injury?
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, are they? Yeah?
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: So why do you not challenge that? Why do you
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: not say? Like? I also think sometimes if you were
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: you would know better than me. But I feel like
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: right now, if you were a child with those challenges.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I guess it depends on the situation and contexts and environment,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: but I feel like there would be an a lot
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: more compassion and resources and you know, exposure to the
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: things that would be valuable to you. And I think,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: and this is not excusing anything, I'm just trying to
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: understand the totality of it. Also, because you are so capable,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: and you are so intelligent, and you are so articulate,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Like the last thing that you've seen is like a
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: person with a disability. So I think for some people
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: that might be confusing, you know, because you're maybe the
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: best speaker I've seen. I'm just going to share a
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: quick story that you aren't like. But one of our
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: friends got married probably ten years ago. How long do
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you reckon? It was with that sounds beautiful, But when
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: do you reckon? Body's wedding was ten years ago?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Oh right, so bodye lot longer than that.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Actually anyway, So one of our friends got married twelve
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: years ago, let's say, it doesn't matter when, but a
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: long time ago. And Bobby delivered this. And I've been
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: to a million weddings and I've spoken a lot, and
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: I've bloody mced a lot, and I've done you know,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: which is great. I love it. It's a privileged blah
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: blah blah. But Bobby delivered this speech at Bodie's wedding,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: which was like absolutely unforgettable, and it was all people
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: were talking about. But the funny thing is we get
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: to see you doing your thing and you morph into this,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: you know, and it's not it's funny because it's not
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: particularly inspirational, but it is. It's not really creative, but
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: there's this creative interpretation, and then there's this quality of delivery.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: There's all these convergent things that are happening to make
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: the experience for the listener fucking incredible. Like, imagine how
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: many talks I've seen and been around in the last
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: twelve fifteen years, like thousands, because I'm always at meetings
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: and conferences and whatever, and that was maybe the most memorable.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: It's hard when you are a high performer, which you are,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: and then people to go to have compassion around your
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: limitations when they see you as someone who is exceptional.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm saying maybe to that because you don't seem
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: in any way handicapped.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I think that makes people very angry. And it's confusing
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: because we tell stories about people, so if something happens,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: there's a story. I understand why we do that. You know,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: it's a heuristic, you know, so we can navigate through
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: the world without having to stop and analyze every detail.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about cognitive load. That's intense. But
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: where of times I'll multitask, which I know is a
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: it's a horrible thing to do, but I'll have a break.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I'll be in a meeting and I know it's going
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: to be all day, and all right, let me get
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to a few emails here, and my brain it works
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: over time to do simple things anyway. An example is
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: like there's this one time where somebody sent me something
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: and it's like, all right, Bobby, there's there's a conference
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: coming up, and here's three things that they want you.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Here's three things that they want you to talk about,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and you know, and then this person went on to say,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I think the thing that would be most aligned with
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: you is option A. And I'm reading this and I'm
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: having a really hard time processing in the moment because
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: for me to process it takes a ton of focus.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: And so I sent back something to the effect of, yeah,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I'm in we'll we'll discuss this when I'm back from
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: my meeting. But I think, you know, option A would
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: be most appropriate for me. And they went and told
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: their boss, like, I can't work with this guy. He
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: is just so hard to work with. And they wrote back, well,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: if you would have read my entire email, you would
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: have noticed that I said option A. And they're like,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I had to write a whole new email that took
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: me fifteen seconds to explain this to you. And it's like, well,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Bobby just doesn't pay attention. Bobby does this, you know,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: like like Bobby doesn't focus on what he's doing. It's like, no,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: like I have a really hard time processing multiple streams
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: of information, and it's like there's this whole story about
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: how much I have lack of attention to detail because
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: of that what I missed in an email, and a
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: lot of it is Yeah, if you can, if you
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: can get on stay and you can do this, emails
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: should be no problem for you. So the conclusion is
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: you're just not paying attation.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it, I get it. We better go
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: because they've got to go do some stuff. You've got
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: to do some stuff. People can find you on LinkedIn.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Damn, I'm on LinkedIn. You know, Robert. I have a
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Robert caapuccio dot com as well. You can visit me,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: check me out, say hello.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: And emoji sales just turn up every week or so
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: on the Youth Project and you'll hear him here.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: You can do that.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I know I'll be here all right, Bro, your dysfunctional,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: a little weirdo. I love you. I'll see you.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Have a great day. Bye bye.