Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Azadari Explained: Culture or Controversy? - ft. Shaykh Mohamed Abbas Panju

Transcript

Azadari Explained: Culture or Controversy? - ft. Shaykh Mohamed Abbas Panju · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:00
  Smila Rahman, Rahim Salaam, Alaika Abdullah, brothers and
• 0:03
  sisters, wherever you are tuning in from around the world.
• 0:06
  Assalamu Alaikum Muhammad, Allahu Barakatu, and welcome
• 0:09
  back to another episode here on the Aftermath Podcast.
• 0:13
  If you've recently been tuning in to our episodes, you would
• 0:16
  have noticed that you recently launched a new campaign called
• 0:19
  Partners in Hidma where you can contribute to After Maghrib on a
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  monthly basis to allow us to sustain the studio space,
• 0:26
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  new content. And Shah Allah is beneficial not
• 0:31
  just to us as Shia, but the entire Muslim Ummah and Shah
• 0:35
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• 0:39
  visit aftermaghrib.com/shia Hossein and you'll have all the
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  information available there for you and Shah Allah.
• 0:46
  Now to kick start off today's episode, we want to discuss all
• 0:50
  things relating to the Azadari of Imam Al Hussein, Alayhi
• 0:54
  Salaam. Now for me on a personal level,
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  Al Hamdulillah, I grew up with this, I was nurtured with this,
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  and I thank Allah Sapana Wattala for allowing me to have parents
• 1:04
  who taught me the love of Hussein, the headma of Imam Al
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  Hussein, to serve Imam Al Hussain, and of course, to
• 1:11
  encourage me and support me to go towards the Azadari of Imam
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  Al Hussain Ali Salaam. So this conversation is not
• 1:16
  strange to myself, not to the team here after Magadab and of
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  course, not to my brother Ahmed Gokul.
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  But what we want to understand is, are we able to have better
• 1:26
  understanding of what Azadari is?
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  Because I can go online today, I can open up the Internet, I can
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  open up comment sections on YouTube, on Instagram, on
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  TikTok, wherever it may be. There are Shias asking these
• 1:38
  questions and there are none Shias asking these questions.
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  Are the practices, are the rituals that we do mourning Imam
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  Hussain Alihi Salaam? Are they, some of them
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  acceptable? Are they away from the the folds
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  of Islam? Are they, for example, something
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  that Maraji have understood to directly be backed by the hadith
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  of the and what framework? What framework rather do our
• 2:03
  jurists use for us to make permissibility when it comes to
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  the morning and the Azad of Imam Hussein al Islam.
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  So there's a lot to unpack Inshallah today and we are
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  joined by an amazing scholarly guest who's going to allow us to
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  understand and have better Marafa with the Azadari Binabad
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  Hussein. But before we introduce the
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  respect to scholar, I have to start by sending my salams to my
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  brother Ahmed, my mutman, my Mukhla, my mulali, my Husseinia
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  brother. Salaam Allah, how you say how?
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  Are you doing? I'm good, bro.
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  I'm excited for today's conversation.
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  Yeah. I think mainly the reason why is
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  because we have discussed a lot over nearly 200 episodes,
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  Hamdulan, Arthur Magrez and in this space of Muharram and
• 3:02
  Safar, over the last five seasons of Muharram Safar, we
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  have never directly, transparently, candidly been
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  able to talk about the Shire, the ritualism, the methodology
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  of mourning, about Abdullah Hussein Ali Salaam, to the
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  extent I think we will do today, inshallah.
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  We, as you mentioned very rightly, we always hear a
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  variety of polarizing opinions when it comes to the methodology
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  and the expression of grief that the Shia do.
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  And you will not find, I think, something more dividing in the
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  Shia community today than the methodology, as I said, of
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  ritualism and the way we conduct our Azhar.
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  We have those who say in our community that there are people
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  who are way, way, way too excessive in their grief.
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  They give us a bad name, They misrepresent Islam.
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  They're not doing it for God. This is Bidar.
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  And then we have the others who say these people who don't give
• 4:08
  themselves their passion, their devotion for about Abdullah
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  Alayhi Salaam, their moccasters, and they don't have love that
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  for the Alibait I am Salaam shot Allah with this sensitivity.
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  We will try and approach this from a more mature perspective
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  and shot Allah 1 today, which is not emotionally driven. 1 today,
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  which is not trying to take a bias, but rather being able to
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  assess the full information under the guidance of a
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  respected scholar who we love, who's returning to the podcast,
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  who we consider to be a mentor to us both, and that is Sheikh
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  Mohammed Abbas Panju Islam Alaikum.
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  It's an honor for me to be here with you brothers, and the work
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  that you were doing in order to promote the teachings of Ali
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  Mohammed. Truly, it's inspiration for us.
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  So I should be thanking. You.
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  Not at all. Not at all.
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  It's too generous in your introduction.
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  Not at all. Don't deserve this.
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  Not at all, at all. Those who know you know you and
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  I'm, I'm sure most of the viewers know you and the benefit
• 5:09
  you've had, I think on all of our lives for for so many years.
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  May Allah bless you and continue to give you the opportunity to
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  to serve the the ADA beta animal Salaam through your words, your
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  wisdom and your teachings and Sha Allah, Jeff.
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  Now I know this is a topic we're all very passionate about and
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  with your permission, we'll jump straight in.
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  There are those who are watching this and perhaps we'll have a
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  preconceived notion as to what Azardari means.
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  What is the correct definition of the word Azardari?
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  Sure, Azzar. So when you look at the concept
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  of Azardari and you you study the the concept of Azardari you
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  will find that there is an entire chapter in fic known as
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  fic Hoshaha, the fic behind the Shah al Hosseinia and we have a
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  number of overlapping terms. So what Azhar for example might
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  mean in Arabic and how Azhar is understood for example in the
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  subcontinent they may be differences while at the same
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  time being overlaps. The same thing with Mata, Matam
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  in Arabic means something, Matam in Urdu and Hindi means
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  something else. Even though there are
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  commonalities and overlaps, even if it is by a dimension.
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  So keeping in mind the the differences as per the language
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  and as per the culture, if we were to take a holistic
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  understanding as a Dari in which we encompass the barriers or the
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  separations that may happen by language.
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  Azadari in general is a definition given to mourning
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  ceremonies through which we uphold the grief and the tragedy
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  of Imam Al Hussain ruhila Ulfidah in particular and the
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  Ahdul Beit in general. So morning ceremonies in which
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  we participate in the grief or in the tragedies of Ali Muhammad
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  a manner. And this azadari as a concept
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  includes a number of a number of functions, a number of
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  activities. So this could include damage
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  list where a salmon is delivered.
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  This could include the Masaeb, which is the recitation of the
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  eulogy and the tragedy. It includes the the Marthea or
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  the Noha, for example, where you're reciting poetry or you're
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  reciting the actual latmia, the recitations of the eulogy.
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  And it also includes the hitting of the chest or the hitting of
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  the face as an expression of grief.
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  So these functions through which we demonstrate our grief for Ali
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  Muhammad in general, are all categorized under this one
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  umbrella definition known as Azadan.
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  I said before we move on to the next question share, I want to
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  make point in reference to some contributions from the guests,
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  from the from the viewers and to everyone at home.
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  Thank you as always for kind of showing your thoughts.
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  You guys are producers of this show.
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  We asked three questions Shakhna to the to the audience.
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  The first question is when it comes to mourning the tragedies,
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  do you feel modern day ritualism is rooted in tradition?
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  To which 86% of people said some rituals are, some are not
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  justified and then the remainder said either there's full
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  justification or there's no justification.
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  The second question we asked was is there a limit on how and how
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  much 1 can mourn for the greatest tragedy that Abu
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  Abdullah Alayhi Salaam, 50% of 57% of people said there is no
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  limit in mourning, to which 43% said there should be limits on
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  how much we mourn and how we mourn.
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  Sure. The last question we asked
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  people was do our rituals reflect well on the non Shia and
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  should we care? 40% of people said I don't care,
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  I mourn for my own reasons. 3737% of people said we should
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  do as are but we shouldn't post anything online and 23% of.
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  Reason we should not post. Anything online, 23% of people
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  said our rituals reflected very badly on us.
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  So nearly 1/4 of people. This is obviously very
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  contentious. And then we asked, you know, do
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  we have any mind? Me asking you a question?
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  Sure, If you don't mind, I'll just interrupt you.
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  So the sample population or the number of people who
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  participated in the polls, so we can get an idea of, yeah, how
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  big it is in terms of a reflection.
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  Demographics, yeah, several 100, several 100 and they are viewers
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  mainly from the West Europe and North America predominantly and
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  typically speaking for those who know our audience between the
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  ages of maybe 18 and 30, so young professionals and
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  students. So I, I personally feel our
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  audience is quite reflective of the, the Western Youngshire
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  mentality. Of course it's it's a very
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  tricky conversation, but I think we don't want to be around the
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  Bush, as I said, say, do you have something specific that you
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  wanted to ask? Yeah, Scheckner, with your
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  permission, if I can ask this question, you know,
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  alhamdulillah, as I said in my introduction, you know, Azadari
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  is not strange to us. So sometimes when I have
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  conversations with other people, they asked me.
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  They asked me, for example, I I haven't been able to answer this
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  and I haven't really asked the scholar this question.
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  And it's is the Azadari we see today, is it rooted and backed
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  from centuries ago? Is there, how can I put into
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  words, is that what we do today, the Majalis, the Lotto, as far
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  as, for example, the Tatabi and things like this?
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  Did this exist from day one when it came to us as Shia mourning
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  the tragedy of Imam Hussein Ali Hassalam And if it did, what's
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  the proof for that? As many people say, the Imams
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  didn't do it. If you go back in centuries, no,
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  as evolved over time, things changed.
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  People had did new things, removed stuff.
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  But if we go back to the traditional times of the debate,
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  Ali Hassalam, what was the minimum in terms of asadari of?
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  Course, these are I think very, very important issues that
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  you've highlighted. And to be very honest, each and
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  every concern that you've brought out is perhaps a chapter
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  or a podcast on its own. And the idea behind this is
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  that, see, when we are drawing conclusions as believers, be it
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  Muslims or Shia, non Shia or Shia, the idea is that when
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  we're drawing or when we are formulating conclusions, there
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  is a methodology behind this conclusion.
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  The conclusion then being your belief on whether X is correct
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  or not, whether this aspect of Azadari is acceptable or not
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  acceptable. This conclusion then ends up
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  being your belief. So the methodology in which we
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  get to our conclusion is absolutely important from
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  understanding our practices. Every opinion that we hold about
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  Azadari, about our Dean in general, needs to be an opinion
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  that is backed through the hadith, through the Quran and
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  through the teachings of the Maharaja.
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  Because the Maharaja, the fokaha themselves extract is timbat,
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  their estidal is based on primarily the Quran and the
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  Sunnah. So it is very important, number
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  one, for us to possess or to be aware of the right methodology
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  through which we can then deduce the right conclusion.
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  Now when we're doing this, there are a number of concepts which
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  we need to almost declutter. So for example, a concept such
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  as or. If it didn't happen at the time
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  of the Imam, this means it's a bidder.
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  Yeah this is wrong. There is actually no
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  correlationship between a timeline of the introduction of
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  a certain action in regards to its validity or non validity or
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  rather its association to Bida or not.
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  This actually is a principle. It's a misconception which
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  emanates from non she affairs Bida.
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  Many people are under the impression that bid are well, if
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  it was not done at the time of the prophets or the imams and
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  it's being done now, it's a bid said this.
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  This is not true. And you take for example, the
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  most simplest of examples. During the time of the imams and
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  the prophets, our dress code, the imams, the prophets never
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  used mobile phones. Does this mean using a mobile
• 14:41
  phone now is a bit of a So when we are looking for extracting
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  conclusions, the methodology is very important.
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  Tamam. So there is a big difference
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  between the concept of bid R and whether an action occurred at
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  the time of the imams or not. There's actually no correlation
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  between these two directly. Bid R is when you claim a
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  certain act is ordained by Allah subahanawata Allah, when in
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  reality it is not. Or if something is not ordained
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  by Allah subahanawata Allah, I come and say that no, it has
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  been ordained in the Sharia. This is been our timeline and
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  occurrence or the surfacing of an action after the time of the
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  Imams or the Nabi has no correlationship with us.
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  And within our fic we have to also understand that the nature
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  of thick is that it is expansive.
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  Thick as a science allows the religion to keep expanding,
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  accepting new practices as we move across the passage of time
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  and at the same time reject passages that may corrupt the
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  essence of the Dean. And you find this within our our
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  outcome. So, and within the rules of fic
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  principles within fic. So for example, to make this a
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  little bit more clear, in fic we have a Kaida, we have a rule
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  known as Isalatul Ibaha. Isalatul Ibaha.
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  This is a general fic concept that allows the expansion of
• 16:26
  fic. Isalatul Ibaha means what?
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  That every action which is not explicitly prohibited within
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  religious text by way of Quran and Hadith, then its default
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  nature is that it is permissible.
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  It's a little ibaha and it also is related to another general
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  principle where we have Bara Bara, a rule in which whereby if
• 17:08
  there is no direct guidance given to us in a particular
• 17:13
  issue by the Imam or by the Prophet through the Quran and
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  the Sunnah, then for Allah subhanawata Allah to punish us.
• 17:23
  This having not given us guidance also doesn't make
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  sense. So we need to understand the
• 17:29
  architecture of fic. There are certain guiding
• 17:32
  principles that are foundational that will then have a great
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  impact when we are analysing the legitimacy of a concept or the
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  illegitimacy of the concept. So by rule of thumb, if we
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  understand our fic is built and these principles come from the
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  Masoom imams, Needless to say. So the starting point in fic IBA
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  is, is isalatul ibaha. If I want to understand whether
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  a certain practice that has emanated either due to
• 18:05
  technology or the changing of cultural practices.
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  If I want to understand whether this practice is halal or Haram.
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  The starting point when a faqih looks at this, the starting
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  point is Heliya halal. And then I need to travel back
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  and see is there any religious text that can be used to deduce
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  its hormone. Mohim Jiddan look at the change
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  in perspective 180° if I see a new practice and just because it
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  is new if my starting point is not this is Haram, show me the
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  proof that it is halal blah the fake of imams are because
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  actually is bilakis the starting point is halal and to show me
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  where is the. Horror of its horror.
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  The the onus of establishing the proof of impermissibilities on
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  the person who is opposing it. So the starting point of the
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  methodology is so critical because it has a direct impact
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  on your conclusion. Yeah, this is #1 #2 when it
• 19:17
  comes to opinions about what is acceptable and what is not
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  acceptable in Azadari, the reality of the matter is, is
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  that this goes back to a great extent for us to return back to
• 19:32
  the Fukaha of our time. Because the Fukaha being the
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  specialists in being able to apply the Quran and the Sunnah
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  with everything that comes within this science, to be able
• 19:46
  to extract the hokum sharadi, whether it is halal or Haram.
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  So to be able to or to formulate this is the message that I want
• 19:56
  to get for myself and for the viewers to formulate opinions on
• 20:01
  certain aspects of Azadari without returning back to the
• 20:05
  fakih of our time or the fukaha of our time is a grave error.
• 20:10
  Then what we have done is we have subjected the religion to
• 20:14
  be a belief system based on our taste, based on our lens through
• 20:23
  which we view the world. LA there is somebody much
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  greater than than us. These are the fokaha.
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  So this is important #2 #3 is that when it comes to the
• 20:37
  institution of Azadari, coming back to correcting
• 20:40
  terminologies, because if our terminologies are incorrect, our
• 20:44
  conclusions are also incorrect. The difference between when it
• 20:52
  comes to defining Azadari is Azadari in this manner, hitting
• 20:58
  the chest out of grief, what we would say in the Arabic language
• 21:03
  as Latam and within the subcontinent as Matlot.
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  So this act of hitting the chest or hitting the head or hitting
• 21:15
  the face or hitting the back with all its intensities, OK.
• 21:21
  Is this #1 an Islamic practice or is it a ritual?
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  Many times we are of the understanding that no, these are
• 21:32
  the cultural aspects of commemoration of Ashura.
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  So the first thing we need to do is thank you.
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  Let us set this foundation and understand the definitions of
• 21:44
  the subject matter that we're discussing.
• 21:47
  Standing in a halakhah in beating your chest, is this a
• 21:51
  cultural form of commemorating Ashura and Muharram or is this
• 21:56
  something Islamic? See, every action that we
• 22:01
  perform has to fall in one of five.
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  When it comes to akham, it's either wajib.
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  Mustahab is either makrooh or Haram.
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  Or MOBA. And the fifth one is MOBA.
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  So I need to ask myself that when we hit our chests out of
• 22:21
  grief, when we say cultural, these are cultural or these
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  cultural acts of grief or ritualistic acts of grief, we
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  have to be a little bit more precise, of course.
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  What does this mean? Does this mean that it falls
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  into one of these 5, or are they independent of these five?
• 22:40
  We can't say they are independent of these fives
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  because every act that a person performs falls under one of
• 22:46
  these fives. You cannot find an action under
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  the sun that doesn't fall under these 5, correct?
• 22:52
  Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:53
  I fully understand and I agree. I think there's there's a few
• 23:00
  things if you don't mind with Joshua Shekhar.
• 23:02
  I'm going to ask first is in terms of the the connotations
• 23:07
  that come with the word cultural, like you said, very
• 23:10
  conflated cultural when we say, oh, that's a cultural thing, a
• 23:15
  tribal thing. Generally when it's said, it's
• 23:18
  said with a negative tone or negative connotation to imply
• 23:22
  that something may be backwards and therefore perhaps implying
• 23:26
  that it might be Makuru if not Haram and at best mobile.
• 23:31
  But I feel personally like there are people in the community who
• 23:36
  think it spans across a very so across different degrees and it
• 23:40
  varies across different degrees and it's not linear.
• 23:43
  So for example, some cultural practices or let's say cultural
• 23:47
  influences of Azadari may be more acceptable if we're talking
• 23:54
  about the general perception. And I know you said we cannot
• 23:58
  see things from a lens. And there then comes the
• 24:01
  question of odd, which I know we will probably touch on.
• 24:05
  I also understand that there's such an important emphasis on
• 24:08
  the fokaha. We look at, for example, the the
• 24:11
  ritual of Tatbir. We know Tatbir is mustahab
• 24:15
  according to many ulama Aitola Sajad Kuruhani, Aitola Bashir
• 24:20
  Najafi idolize Hakfiah Rahmatullahi Ayatullah Muhammad
• 24:26
  Muhammad Saeed Hakim Rahmatullahi Ayatullah Shirazi,
• 24:29
  like a lot of the maraja of our generation have said that this
• 24:35
  act is mustahab. It will get you closer towards
• 24:38
  our last panel to Allah, which to me as a layman implies that
• 24:42
  this is an act which gives you all about an illallah, gives you
• 24:45
  proximity towards our last panel to Allah.
• 24:48
  But then I, I, I believe that people's issue generally
• 24:53
  speaking with this does not lie with the permissibility.
• 24:58
  And I think that might be a question from a logical
• 25:00
  perspective. Some people may say, how does
• 25:02
  this get me spiritually closer to God if it if it is so graphic
• 25:08
  and you know, so forward in that sense.
• 25:11
  But I think the issue perhaps for many people lies in the the
• 25:14
  imagery that comes with it, perception that comes with it,
• 25:17
  that if in the times we live in, we're not portraying Islam in
• 25:20
  the best way possible to those around us.
• 25:23
  To me then comes the question, well, what is the purpose of my
• 25:26
  Azhar? Is my purpose for mourning or is
• 25:29
  my purpose for the portrayal of Imam Hussein's message when I
• 25:33
  beat my chest and no one will be able to tell me you're mourning
• 25:36
  too much. You shouldn't do this.
• 25:38
  I will beat my chest as much as I want and I will beat my chest
• 25:41
  in the way I want. I will slap my face in the way I
• 25:44
  want. This is the greatest tragedy
• 25:46
  which is afflicted the race of mankind.
• 25:49
  Not just how the Shahada of Karbala were martyred, but who
• 25:53
  was martyred and and in the way in, in the the manner in which
• 25:57
  they lost their lives and they gave for a last panel to Allah.
• 26:01
  So no one can tell me you cannot mourn.
• 26:04
  But then the validity of the question, what will others feel
• 26:09
  about your method of mourning? To me, on a personal level, I
• 26:12
  feel it's a valid question, of course.
• 26:15
  So I, I know I'm asking a lot of questions and I know there's an
• 26:17
  element of, you know, you can argue that there's, for example,
• 26:21
  wujub. Salat is wujub.
• 26:22
  If it looks silly, for example, let's stuff roll out a bit.
• 26:25
  If it looks silly to pray in, in the car park.
• 26:27
  But Salat time, who cares what people think?
• 26:30
  Salat is Salat. Does the same argument perhaps
• 26:33
  apply with Azadari? Is there an element of Wujub
• 26:36
  that comes with it? And does that fall into
• 26:38
  practice? Tell mum, sure.
• 26:41
  If we were to go back to the roots, I think when it comes to
• 26:45
  addressing this issue and how we need to be formulating our
• 26:50
  perception of Azadari, we need to go back to the roots.
• 26:53
  And the first thing that we do is we'll have a look at, for
• 26:56
  example, the hadith. Let's just have a look at of
• 27:00
  where this origin emanate, this practice originates from.
• 27:04
  If we understand the origin, it helps us in our journey, the
• 27:09
  methodology to be able to come to the right conclusion.
• 27:12
  Sir, we have a hadith which is at the highest level of
• 27:16
  Attabariani hadith MO Attabar in Tahdibul Akam of Shekhar Tusi
• 27:23
  where which is one of our four fundamental texts for Istidlal.
• 27:28
  And it's a hadith narrated on authority of Imam Jafar Asadiq
• 27:33
  Salawatullahi Wasalam who alay where he's speaking about the
• 27:38
  state of the Fatimiat, the fawatim upon the martyrdom of
• 27:45
  Rasulullah and the Imam describes their state where he
• 27:50
  says was Shakkanal juyub, walatam Nalhudud.
• 27:56
  They tore the outer seam of their garments.
• 27:59
  There's a lot of detail in what this actually means.
• 28:02
  So we will park this on the side so that our conversation doesn't
• 28:05
  get very spread out. Walatam Nalhudud and their beat,
• 28:12
  their chest, their cheeks. Latam in Arabic, by the way,
• 28:16
  means to hit the outer surface of your body, any outer surface
• 28:23
  of your body. Linguistic definition is to hit
• 28:26
  the outer surface of your body anywhere with the palm of your
• 28:30
  hand. So this, this this is defined
• 28:36
  linguistically as latam, OK? Look at what the Imam says in
• 28:42
  description of the Fatimiyat Walatam Nahudud.
• 28:47
  And they hit their cheeks out of grief.
• 28:52
  OK. The Imam is describing to us the
• 28:56
  action of the pure women of Alun Beit.
• 29:01
  Is he condemning them or is he praising them?
• 29:06
  Look at the tail end of the hadith.
• 29:08
  The Imam then goes on to say what Allah Mithila Hussain told
• 29:15
  Tamil hoodooed what a show called you and it is upon the
• 29:22
  likes of Imam Al Hussain that the cheeks should be hit in
• 29:27
  grief. Washington Allah mithil Hussain.
• 29:32
  If you look at the grammatical structure of this hadith, the
• 29:37
  end Washington Allah mithil Hussain told them Al Hudood
• 29:40
  Washington Allah mithil Hussain. This phrase in osul al Fik, the
• 29:47
  grammar suggests that it is sigat phelil amber.
• 29:52
  It's a command tense. It's interpreted as a command
• 29:56
  tense. So a command tense can either be
• 30:01
  within the world of fake can either denote wujub or denote
• 30:08
  mustahab. So this conversation now pack it
• 30:11
  on the side. What is important is from here
• 30:15
  that the Imam has issued a command that upon the likes of
• 30:23
  Imam Al Hussein the cheeks should be hit.
• 30:27
  This means endorsement. Not only endorsement from the
• 30:32
  Imam, but command. A command from the leader
• 30:36
  requires what actualization, fulfillment.
• 30:41
  When Allah Azza Wajal commands us in the Quran, Akimo Salat is
• 30:47
  a command fulfilled. The Salat what is required when
• 30:51
  a command is issued? The actualization, the
• 30:54
  fulfillment or the implementation of the command.
• 30:56
  For when a Massoom Imam Muftara Dutta, whose obedience is
• 31:01
  compulsory upon us as a God chosen individual, commands the
• 31:07
  masses that it is upon the likes of Imam saying that the cheeks
• 31:13
  should be hit. So This is why you will find a
• 31:18
  lot of the people within the Iranian community, Azerbaijani
• 31:24
  community, the Pakistani Indian community, Iraqi community as
• 31:28
  well. You see them in the Milwaukee
• 31:29
  where they're. Hitting their face.
• 31:31
  Their faces out of grief. Now, can I say this is backward
• 31:37
  or first number one, can I say this is cultural?
• 31:40
  It's not cultural because the command for this sort of
• 31:45
  exhibition of grief emanates from the masooming Imam.
• 31:49
  So the issue of this being a cultural practice went out the
• 31:54
  window and then #2 is this a backward practice?
• 32:01
  So again we come back to the hadith, the the person issuing
• 32:05
  the command is a Masoom Imam, Imam Masodic.
• 32:09
  Is it possible for a godly appointed individual to command
• 32:17
  the masses to engage in a practice that is backward
• 32:22
  mustahil? See now this answer that came to
• 32:26
  your mind in less than the blink of an eye, faster than the blink
• 32:30
  of eye, Mustahil. Why did you say mustahil?
• 32:35
  Because there was a muftarapa, whatever they say.
• 32:40
  Barakallah, this response of yours, this quick fire response,
• 32:45
  almost a reflex response, is as a result of your understanding
• 32:50
  in the concept of Imammath, that a divinely appointed Imam, a
• 32:57
  divinely appointed Imam leads the Ummah towards the pleasure
• 33:02
  of God and cannot lead you against the pleasure of God or
• 33:06
  towards a practice that is backward.
• 33:09
  The appointed Imam takes us towards progress, takes us
• 33:13
  towards completion, towards perfection.
• 33:17
  So see how our our understanding of Imamat, what would seem to
• 33:24
  the naked eye is an independent field.
• 33:27
  But it affects my conclusion in Azadari.
• 33:30
  I want to be able to just show you of how this is a network of
• 33:34
  sciences illums that are interconnected and if I have a
• 33:37
  deficiency in one department. Effects everything.
• 33:40
  Else it's going to affect everything else baraka lobbying.
• 33:43
  So again similarly we have in the principles of jurisprudence,
• 33:48
  again also alfiq that every command issued by an Imam or a
• 33:53
  command issued by Allah Subahanawata Allah, the command
• 33:57
  has a muscly heart behind it. A thing, an action is only
• 34:05
  designated as being obligatory or recommended if there is a
• 34:10
  muscly heart behind it. And similarly something can only
• 34:14
  be Haram or macro if there is a masada behind it.
• 34:18
  There is some sort of spiritual facade Sahi.
• 34:22
  This is the underlining principle in Osol Alphic.
• 34:25
  Allah would not command you to do something if there is no
• 34:28
  spiritual benefit in it for you. This is not the action of
• 34:32
  somebody who is Hakim. But in my Osuluddin I know Allah
• 34:36
  Zawajal is Hakim and his hikma is more than visible in his
• 34:41
  creation. Shufu the interconnected links
• 34:45
  over here. So if the Sharia, the Masoom
• 34:50
  Imam, has commanded us to hit our cheeks as an expression of
• 34:55
  grief, this command has an underlining divine muslah behind
• 35:02
  it. Our goal is to be able to
• 35:06
  uncover what is this muslah. If I didn't understand what this
• 35:11
  muslah is, I discount it as being something that is backward
• 35:15
  or unimportant or cultural, correct?
• 35:19
  Yeah. So the first thing is that we
• 35:21
  must understand that Azadari Latam matam, as we say within
• 35:27
  the subcontinent, is not a cultural practice rooted in
• 35:31
  ethnicity or tribalism. It is a command that emanates
• 35:37
  from the representative of God on earth.
• 35:39
  This in Arabic is the concept of lat Latam, the concept which is
• 35:45
  why? What did we say?
• 35:46
  The definition is hitting the palm on the outer surface of the
• 35:51
  body. Now this is the concept.
• 35:54
  But how does this concept actualize itself in the outside
• 36:00
  world? You have a concept in your mind.
• 36:03
  When the Imam told us on the likes of Imam Al Hussein the
• 36:06
  cheeks should be hit, we should in the outside world.
• 36:11
  How is let them actualized? Now before I say this let me
• 36:16
  also make one thing clear. If hitting the cheeks, this is
• 36:20
  how the fokaha will deduce proof.
• 36:23
  If hitting the cheeks out of grief is allowed, then by
• 36:29
  default hitting the chest is also permissible.
• 36:34
  It's called the Mahfoum al Muafiq Yani by default.
• 36:38
  How? Because hitting the cheeks is by
• 36:41
  far more painful than hitting the chest.
• 36:46
  So if this which is more painful we have been commanded to
• 36:51
  observe, then this by default is also accepted in much more.
• 36:57
  It is part of the commands. Of course, some are formal
• 37:00
  morphic and there are many examples of this in the Quran.
• 37:02
  By the way, in the Quran do you find that Allah Subhanawata says
• 37:05
  do not hit your parents? No, the Quran says do not say to
• 37:11
  them even if mufmul muafiq. So we understand if to say off
• 37:18
  to my mother is not permissible then by default hitting her or
• 37:23
  abusing her is not possible. Now the the Sharia Allah azza
• 37:27
  Wajal or the Imam doesn't need to go into further detail and
• 37:31
  tell you Baba hitting them is not allowed.
• 37:34
  Abusing them is not allowed. I don't know.
• 37:38
  Isolating them is not allowed. Hurting their feelings is not
• 37:40
  allowed. The Shari doesn't have to go
• 37:42
  into all these details. It's given you.
• 37:44
  It's given you a major guideline here.
• 37:47
  Yes, framework. Off is not allowed.
• 37:50
  Finished after everything I don't need now Nas has.
• 37:53
  Yeah. Text proof.
• 37:55
  Yes Sir, The ACL also has a role.
• 37:58
  This is why we've been elevated over over all other creations.
• 38:03
  So similarly when it comes to Azadari, when the Imam has come
• 38:07
  and has said the higher has set a benchmark of pain to be
• 38:12
  experienced which is striking the cheeks, then by default
• 38:16
  striking the chest. As permissible is that I don't
• 38:19
  need textual proof by the way, because I can deduce it from
• 38:22
  here. Is that is that a benchmark or
• 38:25
  is that a limitation? So for a capacity limit in the
• 38:28
  same way off is the capacity limit.
• 38:31
  You cannot be, you cannot cross this verbal line obviously.
• 38:34
  Then they can't become physical with your mother in abuse.
• 38:37
  Sure. So then is slapping the face the
• 38:40
  limitation which is given to us, right?
• 38:43
  Do you see what I mean? Or is that the endorsement of
• 38:45
  the best form of Azadari? So to answer your question, when
• 38:51
  we are trying to understand the institution of Azadari, we
• 38:54
  cannot understand the entire institution from a single
• 38:58
  hadith. Of course.
• 38:59
  So now we need to look at. All the.
• 39:02
  Hadith that speak about this subject in order to be able to
• 39:08
  understand the theme of the azadari #1.
• 39:13
  What are the limits? For example #3 what they
• 39:18
  symbolize. This is very important.
• 39:20
  If we don't understand what the striking of the cheeks
• 39:23
  symbolize, then it's very easy to discount it as being backward
• 39:30
  or unimportant. In fact, it might even become
• 39:32
  the most irrelevant part of the modulus, of the of a modulus or
• 39:37
  a program that is being organized, for example, by a
• 39:41
  centre or by a high or so on so forth.
• 39:45
  So now we need to attack the roots.
• 39:47
  Let's understand step by step. Having said this, we are trying
• 39:52
  to now understand the restrictions, where are the
• 39:56
  heights, the limits? There are some nuances, but then
• 40:00
  I also, Hartman, want to touch on what it represents, because
• 40:04
  if we understand what this act represents.
• 40:07
  We are more educated when we are embracing the ACT or we are a
• 40:11
  little bit more cautious if we reject the ACT.
• 40:16
  We are a little bit more cautious in condemning other
• 40:19
  people. This is what we want.
• 40:20
  This is a community that has my alifa.
• 40:24
  So Inshallah this is our road map when we look at the entire
• 40:30
  corpus of the hadith that have reached us and nobody can claim
• 40:36
  that they have a full grasp on the entire corpus.
• 40:39
  Having access to hadith is one thing, understanding the hadith
• 40:42
  is another thing. But to your point, is this the
• 40:46
  HUD the highest level? No, we have another hadith which
• 40:52
  is narrated by Imam al Rida, Imam Alibnam Musarida.
• 40:56
  In fact I have this written down Alayhi Salaam where he States
• 41:00
  and I think I have the reference here as well, Imam Rida Salaam
• 41:07
  Alayhi Kitabullah amali of Sheikh Saduk where he says in
• 41:13
  Naomi Hussain akaraha jufana jufu Nana Washington Azalea Dumo
• 41:23
  Ana Washington Adala Azizana Bihar de carbine Washington Bala
• 41:31
  Washington AU rathnal karbiwal Bala illa yo mil in queda FA
• 41:36
  Allah myth Lil Hussain feliyab Kiel bakun.
• 41:42
  Again the same thing Washington Allah FA FA Allah mythil Hussain
• 41:48
  feliyab Kiel bakun and it is upon the likes of Imam Al
• 41:51
  Hussain that the cries should cry.
• 41:55
  Again, while Allah mithril Hussein sigrat fi El amber it
• 41:59
  shows a command. But to your question, look at
• 42:02
  the Imams he says Imam Alidah says in Naomi Hussein
• 42:06
  Akarahajufoonana what does this mean?
• 42:10
  Akarahajufoonana, the day of Imam Al Hussein has wounded our
• 42:16
  islands. And I wish within your audience
• 42:26
  you have experts or students within the medical field.
• 42:31
  What extent of grief or weeping or wailing should one go through
• 42:41
  to the extent that your eyelids are wounded?
• 42:45
  The most delicate part in your face?
• 42:48
  On your face? The eyelids.
• 42:50
  What inside of our eyelids has ruptured such that the blood has
• 42:57
  clotted? This is #1 #2 how painful is
• 43:01
  this? Is this a category of
• 43:05
  self-inflicted harm? Sure, this is a point for
• 43:11
  contemplation. We're trying to understand how
• 43:14
  far we can go or what is considered to be excessive.
• 43:18
  But I'd move on from there. Zyarathi Nahiya of Sharif, where
• 43:27
  he says, I shall lament you every morning and every evening,
• 43:38
  wala AB Ki Anna alaik badala dumor E daman hasratan alaik.
• 43:46
  I shall weep for you tears of blood instead of normal tears.
• 43:52
  I shall weep for you blood. And if you go on to see the rest
• 43:57
  of the sentence, which the Imam recites and in a more eloquent
• 44:01
  way, which I'm going to paraphrase, he says until I die
• 44:06
  out of this lump of grief that is stuck in my throat.
• 44:12
  This is to paraphrase a statement.
• 44:14
  You can check the statement is the other thing I have for an
• 44:16
  accurate meaning. So over here again within the
• 44:20
  medical field, we need to go back and we need to see what is
• 44:24
  the extent of the weeping and the grief that our current MMM,
• 44:29
  who we are praying so ardently for to return back to us, is
• 44:35
  weeping to the extent that the capillaries in his eyes are
• 44:41
  ruptured and blood is flowing out.
• 44:48
  Now, Ahmed, I might come and say Habibi sayeed.
• 44:51
  I might even think and say this is a metaphorical expression of
• 44:54
  grief. It's possible I've heard could
• 44:56
  be metaphors. So again, within Osunol Fekka,
• 45:01
  we have a science on how to distinguish a literal meaning
• 45:06
  from a metaphorical meaning. It's a science.
• 45:10
  We have certain guidelines. If you come and you look at the
• 45:13
  grammar of the verses used by the Imam when he resides, this
• 45:19
  voila AB Ki Anna aleka badala dumo E Damen wala AB Ki Anna AB
• 45:26
  Ki is the verb for I shall weep for you.
• 45:30
  This is a verb present tense Sahi, and derived from the word
• 45:34
  or One of its derivatives is bukka bakka, the past tense.
• 45:39
  But notice the Imam didn't say what AB Ki aleka badala dumui
• 45:43
  daman. He said voila AB Ki Anna.
• 45:47
  The verb AB Ki is preceded by Alam and ends with the noon and
• 45:54
  the shadda. So we say voila AB Ki Anna, this
• 45:58
  lamb and this noun that has a shadda, which are connected on
• 46:03
  the beginning and the end of a verb in Arabic grammar and even
• 46:07
  in balaga is known as adawati takid, takid yani, Particles of
• 46:17
  affirmation and particles of confirmation that are used when
• 46:24
  the other party, the listener, may have a doubt in the message
• 46:30
  that you are portraying. So in order to remove the
• 46:33
  possibility of doubt, I use particles of affirmation.
• 46:38
  So emphasize here. Man is going to show.
• 46:41
  Man is going to die one day. This is a statement indeed man
• 46:46
  is going to die one day. This indeed the Anitaki don't in
• 46:51
  your mind, even if you have a a a inch of a of a of a doubt in
• 46:57
  your mind that if I you know, micro needle and go to the gym
• 47:01
  and show your anti anti wrinkle cream.
• 47:04
  I'm going to try and squeeze in a few years.
• 47:08
  Marco indeed finished. You see like 1 Assad Allah takes
• 47:13
  a cost man is indeed man is at loss in Adawati taqid.
• 47:21
  Don't deceive yourself and think even for one moment that enter
• 47:26
  you are safe from destruction law.
• 47:29
  Well Abkian, because the grammar here suggests that the actual
• 47:36
  weeping of blood is not metaphor is not a metaphorical
• 47:40
  expression. It is Hakiki.
• 47:43
  So again, coming back to our conversation over here, if I
• 47:47
  understand number one, if I take home as a conclusion from this
• 47:51
  podcast that the ritual the what we consider to be practices of
• 47:58
  expressing our grief through Latham on the face or on the
• 48:03
  chest or to the extent that blood is shed.
• 48:08
  This is not cultural. This emanates from the very
• 48:13
  source of legislation within our Deen comes straight from the
• 48:19
  Imam to command tents and then we have the actual practice of
• 48:22
  the Imam. The Imam is for us to emulate or
• 48:25
  not to emulate. Of course Imam is there to
• 48:28
  emulate. Now having said this, we must
• 48:32
  also take into consideration so that is in self is balanced and
• 48:38
  inshallah our viewers will be able to appreciate this.
• 48:43
  So from some of the the alleles, some of the proof that is used
• 48:48
  for intensive, I don't use, I don't like to use the word
• 48:53
  excessive Mata or excessive more intensive to the extent that
• 48:59
  blood is shed from the head through that beer or blood is
• 49:02
  shed from the back with Zenji, for example, the permissibility,
• 49:11
  the permissibility to begin with and then the istahbab because it
• 49:15
  falls under the commemoration of the Shaha Eralema, the
• 49:21
  permissibility is built as a hokhmul awali, the primary
• 49:28
  ruling. So the default you can say the
• 49:32
  default ruling by way of permissibility from which we are
• 49:35
  able to extract istahbab. And also I should add one thing
• 49:40
  you know any act which is MOBA, if you do any acorbatan illallah
• 49:44
  it becomes mustahab of course. So having said this, there are
• 49:52
  also Fokaha who have said based on a Hokhmuth than we on a
• 50:00
  secondary ruling. Perhaps the shedding of blood is
• 50:05
  not permissible. Secondary ruling meaning what
• 50:10
  the exception to the default. So the default ruling is is the
• 50:15
  hebab. Now comes the exception to the
• 50:18
  rule Hokhmalawali Hokhmothanawi where the fakih through his age.
• 50:27
  The hard is of the opinion that engaging in acts of Ted Bear or
• 50:35
  Zangier give a negative image to theism and to Islam and hence
• 50:45
  they are of the opinion that this is not permissible.
• 50:50
  And there then there is a big variance.
• 50:52
  So you have on one's end of the spectrum is the hebab.
• 50:56
  In fact not even is the hebab Markham for example, Taki al
• 51:01
  Qommi said wajib kifai. So to show you the extent of the
• 51:06
  spectrum, so we have from Wajib kifai all the way to horma
• 51:13
  impermissibility and then in between is the we as a Shia
• 51:21
  community who are bound to taklid of our fukaha.
• 51:29
  It is important that each one returns back to their marjah
• 51:35
  takhlid when it comes to defining the intensity at which
• 51:44
  you can do Aza. Therefore, the passion who
• 51:48
  follows A faki who says it is mustahab or wajib kefari, they
• 51:54
  follow that Marjah and the mokalid whose marja says that
• 52:01
  this is not permissible based on hokumathanawi because it gives
• 52:05
  Islami bad image, then they are compliant.
• 52:08
  The art of having a cohesive Shia community is where each
• 52:17
  mokalid respects each other and we respect the mokalad, the
• 52:23
  fakih. So if I am following a certain
• 52:27
  merger, it is important for me to respect you.
• 52:30
  Who's doing the plead of another merger?
• 52:33
  The true spirit of cohesiveness and coexistence within a
• 52:38
  community is not all of us to be uniform in our practices.
• 52:44
  It is to be able to be understanding of the differences
• 52:49
  within our practices and yet not be malicious towards 1.
• 52:54
  And this is not only by the way to Azadari, it's not restricted
• 52:57
  to Azadari, it's not restricted to Tatbir or Zanjir, but rather
• 53:01
  this also comes into moon sighting.
• 53:04
  We have a wide spectrum of differences and each Faqi has
• 53:09
  his Delhi unless I am a fucky as well.
• 53:12
  At that level you bring your Dalil but still you cannot force
• 53:16
  somebody into the lead with more sighting.
• 53:20
  More sighting, how much we have in terms of variance, unity of
• 53:25
  the horizon. The horizon is not uniform.
• 53:28
  Is it restricted to the naked eye or can you use the
• 53:31
  telescope? Yeah, sure.
• 53:32
  No, we kill each other and we destroy each other on these
• 53:35
  differences. Yeah.
• 53:36
  No, we have to be understanding. I have to complete because I
• 53:40
  feel that he is the most learned and hum, this is his Delhi and
• 53:44
  we learn to live and respect each other's differences.
• 53:48
  Yeah, This, I believe, when it comes to Azadah, is very
• 53:51
  important. This mentality will also dictate
• 53:55
  what we write in comments on social media, how we respond to
• 54:00
  other comments. I have to be respectful of the
• 54:03
  fact that people have different mukhaleds, different fokaha,
• 54:09
  that they do take lead off and they have different opinions.
• 54:12
  Hi, nothing more than this. You've said that very
• 54:14
  beautifully and eloquently, and whoever didn't understand this,
• 54:18
  I think it needs to go rewind and hear it again.
• 54:20
  Hello, Dalil. And there is Dalil Tarafane.
• 54:22
  I mean, there's Dalil on both sides of this.
• 54:24
  So one can argue that no, it gives a bad image.
• 54:28
  And on the other hand, you can argue that no, it doesn't give a
• 54:31
  bad image. It actually strengthens the mud
• 54:34
  hub in either way. The reality of the matter One
• 54:37
  thing that I would like to say is that the reality of the
• 54:40
  matter is that images of Azadari are now widespread on social
• 54:44
  media. Be it Matam of the hitting of
• 54:47
  the chests, be. We are identified by the snow.
• 54:50
  Asant Barakala and it could be. They say Shia, they think of
• 54:53
  grief for the tragedy of Karbala, which by the way.
• 54:57
  Which by the way, is not a bad thing.
• 54:59
  It's actually something of pride because we we deduce this from
• 55:03
  the words of Imam. How?
• 55:04
  Many people have come to the school of debates by saying,
• 55:07
  what are these people mourning? Who is this for saying that?
• 55:10
  Who are they if I'm? If I'm going to be really honest
• 55:12
  with you and and I know we're coming towards the end chef, but
• 55:15
  I do want to mention just one thing and then I'll pass over to
• 55:18
  you because I'm sure you've probably got something to ask or
• 55:19
  say. But one thing is for example,
• 55:22
  the moon sighting comparison. I agree.
• 55:23
  I think this is there's a similarity in the sense of this
• 55:27
  unnecessarily polarization or difference of opinion or
• 55:31
  becoming a tribal and, and, and putting yourself in camps based
• 55:35
  on where you stand on a 50 issue.
• 55:37
  However, one may argue that whether I do it on this day or
• 55:41
  that day, if it's it's between me and you, it doesn't.
• 55:46
  It doesn't have a repercussion on the wider community, the
• 55:48
  wider society and their impression of us.
• 55:52
  Whereas for example, with Zenjir, with Tatbir and even
• 55:56
  with Martam, even though we may on a personal level agree or
• 55:59
  disagree, it has an impression on how people see us.
• 56:03
  Therefore, as many people as there are who have joined the
• 56:07
  school of the Alhabet Alhabhim Salaam, there are also people
• 56:10
  who have left the school of the Alhabet Alhim Salaam because of
• 56:13
  their perhaps understanding or misunderstanding of Azadari, the
• 56:19
  impression which they have been given or not given of what
• 56:22
  Azadari is or should be. And finally, of course, now more
• 56:25
  than ever, on social media, every two minutes when I'm on my
• 56:29
  algorithm on Instagram, I will see a real, which is intensive
• 56:36
  as as I think is a very nice word.
• 56:38
  You chef, good word to you. Change the perspective.
• 56:42
  Yeah, yeah, it's definitely intense in some cases.
• 56:45
  In my humble opinion, it baffles me because it looks like like
• 56:48
  I've seen some things which to me, on a personal level make no
• 56:51
  sense. Like, for example, I saw today a
• 56:54
  guy who was dressed up and he was like had paper mache on him
• 56:58
  look like a pinata and people were hitting him.
• 57:01
  And I don't understand like, and perhaps this is my untrained
• 57:05
  eye, but then one may think this is how the average Joe may look
• 57:08
  at things. We are used to culturally being
• 57:11
  used to and and so on. But I just wanted to add that
• 57:14
  thing. And do you want to add something
• 57:16
  as well? Sorry.
• 57:17
  Super important? No, no, super important.
• 57:19
  There's a question I will ask you is that, you know, coming to
• 57:23
  how people view the method, for example, and we gave an example,
• 57:27
  we, you gave an example as well of Azadari or, you know, the
• 57:30
  idea of some Baha saying this may give a bad image to the
• 57:34
  religion or things like this. One thing in particular I wanted
• 57:38
  to ask in addition to this is that when it comes to the Azhar,
• 57:42
  to the mourning of Imam Hussein Alayhi Salaam, he has a unique
• 57:46
  level of mourning specifically for him.
• 57:49
  This because I've I've come across this.
• 57:57
  I was discussing I think with a brother who's part of the team
• 58:00
  as well here after Mahreb about the jezza of Imam and Hussein Al
• 58:04
  Esalam. And then I remember he was like,
• 58:06
  we were discussing whether it's excessive, not excessive.
• 58:09
  And then I remembered something that I heard from my marcher,
• 58:12
  which was that for about Abdullah Al Hussein say the show
• 58:15
  that it's not just Jezza. Go as far as hella.
• 58:18
  Hella. So actually it's funny you
• 58:21
  mentioned that because it's in the one of the hadith.
• 58:23
  OK, I had no, I had written down over here.
• 58:27
  It's quite a lengthy hadith, but it's found in Kamalu Ziyarat and
• 58:32
  I believe it is a conversation between Imam Sadiq Ali Salaam
• 58:36
  and his companion Masma Kiriddin Masma.
• 58:41
  So Masma was from the Ahmed Iraq.
• 58:43
  Just to summarize real quick what you were saying, he was
• 58:46
  from the AL al Iraq. So Imam Assad, he went to visit
• 58:48
  Imam Assadi Kali Salaam. Imam Assadiq said to him, do you
• 58:52
  you're from the al al Iraq? He said yes.
• 58:54
  He said, do you visit Imam al Hussein?
• 58:55
  Masma said no, Imam has said why?
• 58:59
  Imam Assadiq said why? This is because I'm from the
• 59:03
  people of Basra and the the the governor who is from the Nawaz
• 59:10
  sib knows me and they know people within my family also
• 59:16
  know me. I'm a known person and if it is
• 59:20
  known that I went for the Ziara of Imam Al Hussein, they are
• 59:25
  going to not only execute me but they're going to decapitate me.
• 59:29
  You must see Luna be he says. They will not only execute, they
• 59:33
  will decapitate me. I mean I'm Bainal Cosain.
• 59:37
  It also shows you the phases in which Shia ISM went through in
• 59:42
  order to protect the institution of Ziara Tamam.
• 59:46
  So he couldn't go for Ziara Imam al Hussain al Imam Assadi Kali
• 59:50
  Salaam asks him. Sure AFA tadjza Ali, do you
• 59:57
  display? Just that means extreme anguish
• 1:00:02
  do you exhibit. Extreme anguish in your sadness
• 1:00:09
  for Imam al Hussein, in your grief for Imam al Hussein, he
• 1:00:13
  says of course he says to paraphrase.
• 1:00:16
  Again, you can refer to Kamalu ziyarat for the hadith, Hadith
• 1:00:19
  masma, this conversation with Imam Saldik where he says to
• 1:00:23
  paraphrase. I cry.
• 1:00:26
  I weep to the extent that I then even refrain from eating food.
• 1:00:37
  Do you know when you are so consumed by your grief?
• 1:00:43
  Yeah. Shabab, this is the key point
• 1:00:47
  behind everything. This one statement when you are
• 1:00:51
  so consumed in your grief that in the process your chest got
• 1:00:58
  bruised. You are so consumed in your
• 1:01:01
  grief that in the process you shed blood from your head and
• 1:01:07
  from your back. This is the keyword.
• 1:01:10
  Look at Masma. You are so consumed in your
• 1:01:13
  grief that you just to the extent that you lost your
• 1:01:16
  appetite, you don't even feel like eating food until the
• 1:01:21
  effect of this is was visible, he says.
• 1:01:25
  Is visible on my face. My family members can notice
• 1:01:30
  that my complexion has changed due to the intensity of my
• 1:01:36
  weeping and me refraining from food consumption of food again.
• 1:01:41
  Yeah, right. Our our nutritionalists were
• 1:01:44
  either on set or watching in the crowd.
• 1:01:47
  To what extent do you have to refrain from food or drink such
• 1:01:53
  that this abstention will reflect in your complexion?
• 1:01:59
  I These are noukat kalesh Mohemlal is the Lal for us to
• 1:02:04
  understand what the institution of grief means.
• 1:02:08
  Tamam Did the Imam condemn him for going to this level law?
• 1:02:16
  Imam in fact endorsed his behavior and said to him indeed
• 1:02:21
  you will be rewarded and you are from amongst the Ahlil Jaza
• 1:02:27
  which allows us to understand that in for amongst the people
• 1:02:33
  who weep for Imam al Hussein lament Imam al Hussein Dara
• 1:02:39
  Darajat and there is one da Raja known as the little Jaza, the
• 1:02:46
  people who display anguish and the Imam Sadiq endorsed this
• 1:02:54
  position. Tamam and then the rest of the
• 1:02:58
  hadith goes on. But because you mentioned this
• 1:03:01
  Jaza and the in the other hadith, in another version there
• 1:03:04
  is Jaza wahala which is a level further than Jaza.
• 1:03:09
  But having said this, see one thing that also comes to the
• 1:03:12
  mind is this Imam Al Hussein. And the expression of grief is a
• 1:03:17
  language of love. The language of love is really
• 1:03:23
  never understood. It's felt, it's felt.
• 1:03:29
  The person who stands in the halak of the martyr and beats
• 1:03:33
  his chest out of grief knows the value of this connection that he
• 1:03:40
  has with the Imam. It's forging a connection of
• 1:03:44
  loyalty. So I wanted to again, I'm also
• 1:03:47
  mindful of the time that we have, but I think this is very
• 1:03:51
  important. Why?
• 1:03:53
  Why we we, why we inflict upon ourselves this pain and grief?
• 1:04:02
  Why should we experience this to the extent that the Imam has
• 1:04:06
  outlined for us? Why number one, what the Imam
• 1:04:15
  said, Imam Sahib al ahmarinzi arte nahiya Sharif, because I
• 1:04:21
  was separated from you by the passage of time.
• 1:04:25
  I shall lament you every morning and every evening when I stand
• 1:04:31
  in the halaqa to hit my chest as an expression of grief.
• 1:04:37
  In essence, what we're doing is this.
• 1:04:41
  This is the divine. We're trying to uncover the
• 1:04:43
  muscle. We said every command act has a
• 1:04:46
  divine muscle behind it, the spiritual muscle.
• 1:04:49
  Every time I stand in a halaka and I hit my chest, what I'm
• 1:04:54
  saying to the Imam is that this I want to feel even an ounce of
• 1:05:06
  the pain through which you went. This grief which resides in my
• 1:05:13
  heart, extreme grief for the manner in which you were
• 1:05:21
  martyred on the plains of Ashura and for the manner in which the
• 1:05:27
  horses trampled your chest. I find no way of expressing this
• 1:05:34
  extreme grief other than for me to also feel a part of this
• 1:05:41
  pain. I have to quantify the grief in
• 1:05:48
  my heart through the physical feeling of pain.
• 1:05:57
  This is something deep, my love for the Imam.
• 1:06:01
  There's another dimension. My love for the Imam is such
• 1:06:06
  that how can my body not be bruised on a day that the
• 1:06:14
  grandson of Rasul Allah was covered in wounds?
• 1:06:18
  Imam Sadiq al Salaam says in one of the hadith, Sheikh Jafar a
• 1:06:22
  toaster in Hassan is al Hosseiniya 313 sword wounds on
• 1:06:28
  the body of a mammal #3 You know, we also have in
• 1:06:34
  psychology, and this is actually warranted within our fic of
• 1:06:39
  Azadari, the concept of muasat, that you share in the pain of
• 1:06:46
  the one who you love. Having said this, when you share
• 1:06:55
  in the pain of the one you love, the bond of loyalty is strength.
• 1:07:01
  Strengthens. Absolutely.
• 1:07:03
  This is it. All this, all this, this issuing
• 1:07:10
  of commands is because this act is a wasila, a means.
• 1:07:19
  You can imagine grief, you can read about, you can imagine
• 1:07:24
  pain, you can read about pain, you can imagine thirst, you can
• 1:07:30
  read about thirst. But when you experience pain,
• 1:07:37
  when you experience thirst, the level of connection is far much
• 1:07:42
  more different, is much more stronger.
• 1:07:46
  So why Imam says that even on the day of Ashura abstained from
• 1:07:49
  drinking the water, for example, until the time of Salatul ASA,
• 1:07:53
  in terms of participated feel the first same thing when it
• 1:07:58
  comes to Arbayin. Arbayin, why we're insistent to
• 1:08:02
  walk in the heat, experience the pain Now, the next time you hear
• 1:08:08
  that the sabaya were taken from Kufa to Sham under the scorching
• 1:08:13
  sun, or enter you here in the Majlesh, that the camp of Imam
• 1:08:18
  Al Hussain was thirsty for three days, more, more, more, you
• 1:08:23
  know, you just pass by the statement.
• 1:08:26
  It's one thing to conceptualize. You feel it.
• 1:08:29
  But it's different when you felt it.
• 1:08:33
  And this is one thing we want to take home from today's podcast.
• 1:08:37
  The sentiment of grief is sacred.
• 1:08:42
  The sentiment in itself, the feeling of grief itself, the
• 1:08:48
  feeling of anguish itself itself is something sacred.
• 1:08:54
  Yes, a weirdo again. Pick up Camelus Yara wasa
• 1:08:59
  Ilushiya. A minimum of 55 hadith, 55
• 1:09:09
  hadith just on the importance of crying for a mammal.
• 1:09:15
  Hussein and the Masoom Imam, the only one command from the Imam
• 1:09:20
  is enough. 55 times the Imam reiterates the importance, the
• 1:09:27
  necessity, the backbone of our Iman being rooted in shedding
• 1:09:33
  tears for the Imam. How ignorant am I when I come
• 1:09:38
  and I say crying is the emotional part of a Muslims.
• 1:09:42
  We need to pay attention to other things, to pay attention
• 1:09:46
  to the ailment, to the values of the revolution is important.
• 1:09:49
  Bilal shakinwala Arabe and it is toxic to fall short on this.
• 1:09:55
  But to downplay the institution of grief.
• 1:10:01
  This is a crime in the eyes of Allah.
• 1:10:03
  Subhanawatah 55 hadith from the mushroom imams between Wasai
• 1:10:08
  Lucia and Kamilosi Arat on crying.
• 1:10:10
  And the reason why I say this is that sometimes people say we cry
• 1:10:13
  too much. We need to pay more importance
• 1:10:16
  on the lessons of Ashura, on the values of Ashura LA, we're mixed
• 1:10:22
  huck with a bottle. It is absolutely important for
• 1:10:25
  us to practice the values, implement the values for which
• 1:10:29
  Imam Al Hussain stood up for in terms of justice and honor and
• 1:10:33
  dignity. Bella shakinwala Arabe There is
• 1:10:37
  no There's no compromise on this.
• 1:10:40
  But I cannot push this message at the expense of downplaying
• 1:10:45
  Azadi. Of course, now we begin to mix
• 1:10:48
  hack with batter. This is as important as this.
• 1:10:54
  In fact, the weeping is what leads us to.
• 1:11:00
  The reflection. Reflection and reformation in
• 1:11:03
  our action Tama. Now somebody might come and say,
• 1:11:06
  Habibi Ahmad Sayeed, the we have changed the Ashura programs
• 1:11:13
  because our objective is to come latam boka and we turn back to
• 1:11:19
  the same sins. So as a result, what we should
• 1:11:22
  do reduce the Boka, reduce the Latam and focus more on the
• 1:11:28
  values Salat. What is the what is one of the
• 1:11:37
  primary reasons behind the institution of Salat as a wajib
• 1:11:44
  act of worship in the Salat Tanha Anil Fahshahi?
• 1:11:50
  The goal behind Salat is that it should.
• 1:11:57
  It should as an institution allow us to refrain from
• 1:12:02
  sinning. Yani my Salat as a shield.
• 1:12:06
  This act of worship is supposed to be such a strong shield it
• 1:12:10
  weakens, rather it nullifies the power of temptation.
• 1:12:14
  So two people can disagree on this.
• 1:12:17
  Now if I find that I person is reciting Salat 5 times a day but
• 1:12:23
  at the same time is sinning, does it make sense?
• 1:12:27
  Is it out of wisdom for me to go and tell him your prayers mean
• 1:12:31
  nothing? Stop praying.
• 1:12:35
  Same thing when it comes to Azadari shufu ikma.
• 1:12:38
  If a person is doing one good thing and 10 bad things, don't
• 1:12:43
  attack the good thing he's doing.
• 1:12:45
  Rather now as leaders of the community or concerned Shabaab,
• 1:12:51
  we need to double down on this Azadari, on this crying, on this
• 1:12:56
  weeping, on this commemoration. Double down on it and see now
• 1:13:00
  how can I take the Shabaab in the community to the next level
• 1:13:04
  where they can extract the treasures of Marifa and
• 1:13:11
  character that are encapsulated within Azhar.
• 1:13:15
  So if I'm loyal to the Imam and I demonstrate this loyalty
• 1:13:21
  through my matam and hitting my chest, then this loyalty needs
• 1:13:27
  to translate in my actions. When I have a choice between
• 1:13:32
  halal and Haram to make money the halal way or make a quick
• 1:13:37
  buck the Haram way, the loyalty that I cultivate through my
• 1:13:42
  matam now needs to translate on this new battlefield because
• 1:13:48
  loyalty here now I'm loyal, I'm sure.
• 1:13:51
  No, I beat my just for Imam Hussein.
• 1:13:52
  What is the extra $100,000 Salah?
• 1:13:56
  This is what we need to work towards.
• 1:13:57
  Not that we destroy this in order to build that or this or
• 1:14:02
  even how Mushkil Kabir we said no, as long as I cry for Imam Al
• 1:14:06
  Hussein, I don't need anything else.
• 1:14:08
  Even this Imam Al Hussein, like the way we read in Ziadat
• 1:14:11
  Arbaeen, and you gave to paraphrase, and you gave the
• 1:14:16
  blood from your arteries in order to remove the people from
• 1:14:23
  the depths of ignorance. The beginning was this is the
• 1:14:31
  first part of the Arthel Arbine that we recite.
• 1:14:35
  So therefore, my arefa to be cognizant #1 when it comes to
• 1:14:40
  Azadari opinions that we create about azadari #1, we need to
• 1:14:47
  take a little bit of time to understand our hadith.
• 1:14:50
  These are not rituals. They're not cultures that are
• 1:14:56
  embedded based on, you know, tribal affiliations.
• 1:15:01
  The source of this Matam latam emanates from the emancipals.
• 1:15:06
  This is #1 #2 we cannot say that matter more.
• 1:15:13
  Crying is as emotions is the least important part of Muharram
• 1:15:20
  and the more important thing is the values that the Imam stands
• 1:15:23
  for. Now these still go hand in hand.
• 1:15:27
  Two different sides of the same. Coin.
• 1:15:30
  Coin you remove anyone side that coin is in remain.
• 1:15:34
  This is number 2 #3. The Fukaha and the Maraja are on
• 1:15:40
  a spectrum in regards to the intensity of azadari that can be
• 1:15:47
  performed in public. It is important that each person
• 1:15:53
  refer back to their faki, and it is as important for each person
• 1:15:58
  to respect the fatwa of other fukaha.
• 1:16:03
  I don't have the right to transgress on other mukhalidin
• 1:16:08
  come up. This is number 3 #4.
• 1:16:12
  I wanted to mention this over here.
• 1:16:16
  It's a bit out of order in some. Things but.
• 1:16:21
  Inshallah, we said so, the Latam, we said Latam.
• 1:16:24
  See now where the balance between Dean and culture comes
• 1:16:28
  in. This is a beautiful point, Imam
• 1:16:32
  says. Or linguistically the definition
• 1:16:35
  of Latam is what that you hit the with the palm of your hand,
• 1:16:40
  the outside surface of the body. Yeah, this is the definition.
• 1:16:45
  When we say definition of latam, this is the definition of latam.
• 1:16:50
  Sorry. Imam Sadiq then came and said
• 1:16:52
  latmil hudud, latam nal hudud. They hit their cheeks come up
• 1:16:58
  and then from there we deduced with tarikatin Ola the hitting
• 1:17:01
  of the chest. So we have a definition, a
• 1:17:06
  conceptual definition of Matam or latam, which is the hitting
• 1:17:11
  of the chest. It's conceptual.
• 1:17:16
  This definition is a definition that exists in our mind.
• 1:17:22
  The root of this concept emanates from the religion,
• 1:17:28
  which is a hadith, is a command tense from Imam Sadiq and Imam
• 1:17:31
  Reda Ali Salam SA. Yes.
• 1:17:35
  How does this concept manifest itself in the outside world?
• 1:17:43
  So the concept in Arabic is known as Mahfoum.
• 1:17:47
  This is the Mahfoum, the concept, the definition, the
• 1:17:51
  terminology. But how is this definition or
• 1:17:55
  how is this concept actualized in the outside world?
• 1:18:02
  It is actualized through our cultural affiliations.
• 1:18:09
  Therefore, the actualization of the hitting of the chest with
• 1:18:13
  the palm for the Iraqi community will manifest itself through the
• 1:18:21
  Nesla. For example, for the Pakistani
• 1:18:25
  community, I don't know what Lambahatam Koja community
• 1:18:31
  through the Softmatam and for the Iranian communities,
• 1:18:36
  Sinazani or Shore. Now look at the beauty, how the
• 1:18:42
  cultural, the differences, the cultural manifestation of Latam.
• 1:18:50
  The cultural manifestations of Latam are different
• 1:18:55
  manifestations that come back to 1 Islamic root.
• 1:19:00
  Famous sense where you are culturally, there's a different
• 1:19:04
  way of performing that. Yeah, OK.
• 1:19:06
  Why Islam doesn't impose upon you one uniform way of
• 1:19:11
  performing London. Each person's expression of
• 1:19:16
  grief is to a certain extent builds in the cultural backdrop
• 1:19:24
  in which we grow up, of course, and it is a disservice to Imam
• 1:19:28
  Al Hussain to try and impose upon people a form of mourning
• 1:19:34
  that do. They do not relate, of course,
• 1:19:37
  and the beauty is Karbala. When you see more than 50
• 1:19:44
  nationalities come together in their different cultural
• 1:19:50
  expressions of matam and you look at the different colours of
• 1:19:55
  flavours through which the one of whom which is the command of
• 1:19:59
  the Imam manifests, it's. Just speaking on this, I think
• 1:20:04
  2-3 days ago I came across a clip came on my Instagram and it
• 1:20:08
  was like Japanese Shia performing as a lash in their
• 1:20:15
  own way. It was behind the stood as
• 1:20:18
  latum. It was latum, but it was very
• 1:20:20
  different to what I've ever seen.
• 1:20:21
  So, so it goes back to the point that you mentioned, like every
• 1:20:24
  culture, every background has their own way of how they
• 1:20:27
  perform the Azadari, but the essence.
• 1:20:30
  Is the same if I can just add as well.
• 1:20:31
  I think it's one thing is we, we have this tendency every year at
• 1:20:37
  this time of the year, which is such a holy period for all of
• 1:20:40
  us. And when in reality we should be
• 1:20:42
  the most united under the ban of Imam Hussein Ali Salaam that
• 1:20:47
  these conversations pop up and continuously there is judge
• 1:20:51
  mentalism and there is always reflection, there's always areas
• 1:20:54
  for improvement. Communities can improve.
• 1:20:57
  You know, all of those who are pitted against one another can.
• 1:21:01
  We can all improve inshallah. Ultimately this is our
• 1:21:05
  salvation. Imam Hussain is.
• 1:21:07
  Without a doubt. Salvation, our beacons of
• 1:21:09
  guidance and we have to move forward.
• 1:21:12
  This reflective point. Absolutely.
• 1:21:14
  I, I, I feel very strongly about this personally.
• 1:21:17
  And you touched on the point which about replacing Matam or
• 1:21:23
  any form of Azhar with strictly looking at it from an Elmi
• 1:21:28
  perspective or reflective. And you mentioned before the
• 1:21:30
  podcast the balance of Elm and Amal, which is so important.
• 1:21:35
  Unfortunately, I know it's that there's there are so many more
• 1:21:39
  things I want to talk to you about and ask me.
• 1:21:41
  Inshallah, Inshallah. Part more thing in one more
• 1:21:46
  thing. I'm getting sick and if I can
• 1:21:47
  just throw something a span in the works, I'm getting non-stop
• 1:21:51
  calls from empty and sib. So yeah.
• 1:21:53
  Just I'm just letting you know. They know where recorded.
• 1:21:57
  I've told them, I've told I'm going to show this to them.
• 1:22:01
  No problem. We're going to edit all this
• 1:22:02
  year. Yeah, of course, of course,
• 1:22:04
  yeah. You know what, even editing, you
• 1:22:07
  may want to edit if you find all the information or everything,
• 1:22:11
  we've surpassed the time. You may want to edit the first
• 1:22:14
  part of our introduction if you find it was a little bit too
• 1:22:17
  technical. It was in terms of the five
• 1:22:20
  common cultural ritual. If you find it's not beneficial,
• 1:22:27
  this is 1 important thing that I wanted to and you actually
• 1:22:30
  touched upon this point, which is important for us to give
• 1:22:33
  answers to. At the end of the day,
• 1:22:36
  regardless of whether we understood Azadari, we didn't
• 1:22:39
  understand Azadari. We are for Azadari, we're
• 1:22:41
  against Azadari. The reality of the matter is
• 1:22:43
  that all these images are on social media.
• 1:22:47
  They are on Instagram. And like the way you said, you
• 1:22:50
  know, you're going to have images of people soaked in
• 1:22:52
  blood, images of men who have removed their shirts and are
• 1:22:56
  doing LOTAM in the middle of the streets, for example.
• 1:22:58
  And in the West Now, how do we it makes us look back.
• 1:23:02
  It makes us look backward. This is 11 concern that comes in
• 1:23:06
  and the concern Yani Mottaram, it's from the right of the
• 1:23:09
  people to ask this because at the end of the day, we're living
• 1:23:12
  in a shared space with non Shias and non-Muslims.
• 1:23:17
  The realistic, the realistic solution to this is what the
• 1:23:25
  realistic solution to this is. The more these images get
• 1:23:29
  posted, the more and more we need to work hard to educate the
• 1:23:36
  people on what these rituals, if we can use the word ritual over
• 1:23:41
  here, what these rituals symbolize.
• 1:23:46
  People by default are afraid of practices and behaviours that
• 1:23:53
  they do not understand. And just as the way the number
• 1:23:58
  of images of Matam of Aza with all their intensities are
• 1:24:03
  getting uploaded on Instagram on a daily basis, parallel to this,
• 1:24:08
  it is our responsibility to keep educating the people with as
• 1:24:13
  much intensity on what these acts symbolize.
• 1:24:18
  It's very important. We need to educate #1 our own
• 1:24:21
  people, but on the outside world, to the non Shia, to the
• 1:24:25
  non-Muslims. We need to explain to them what
• 1:24:30
  this expression of grief symbolizes, why we are engaged
• 1:24:34
  in this expression of grief. At the end of the day, though,
• 1:24:38
  they can decide to agree with you.
• 1:24:40
  They can decide not to agree with you.
• 1:24:42
  Our responsibility is to educate them.
• 1:24:45
  And the reality of the matter is people at the end of the day
• 1:24:48
  have a themir, they have a conscience.
• 1:24:51
  And even if they don't believe in what you are doing, they're
• 1:24:53
  going to respect you for who you are.
• 1:24:56
  You think about it, how many senseless rituals and practices
• 1:25:03
  exist in the world today where the people engaged in them, They
• 1:25:07
  don't care for a second what the other party will think about
• 1:25:11
  them. There was one thing I was
• 1:25:13
  reading about, I think, I don't know where is it.
• 1:25:14
  I think it's in Spain. There's a day where all of them
• 1:25:17
  wear white T-shirts and they, they, they smashed tomatoes of
• 1:25:20
  each other. Yasobhan Allah.
• 1:25:24
  Why? Why nobody points the finger at
• 1:25:26
  them? No, what are we going to think
• 1:25:27
  about Spain's national image? Paramat we're going to
• 1:25:31
  immigration will stop to our country.
• 1:25:36
  Where are the human rights people?
• 1:25:37
  For half the world is dying of starvation.
• 1:25:43
  They're doing something battle and they don't care about other
• 1:25:46
  people's opinion. Is that real thing?
• 1:25:48
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:49
  That's Google it. My daughter told me about to buy
• 1:25:52
  the she she just turned 9 recently and I don't.
• 1:25:54
  Know somehow. True, it's real.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah, look at that. They have another festival, I
• 1:25:59
  don't know which. One day of the year everyone is
• 1:26:01
  lined up in in a narrow lane and they free up the bulls and then
• 1:26:06
  apparently you're supposed to dodge the bull otherwise you get
• 1:26:09
  tossed up young. People die from this as.
• 1:26:11
  Well, my column over here is this.
• 1:26:15
  People who are involved in public acts of Jahl, they're not
• 1:26:21
  ashamed on how they're going to be judged.
• 1:26:24
  And now we're people of Haq, why are we scared of being judged?
• 1:26:28
  Our job is to educate them, and you're educating them towards
• 1:26:32
  lofty principles. I have to show them who and why
• 1:26:39
  I am willing to experience this pain on my chest.
• 1:26:44
  And again, there has to be wisdom.
• 1:26:46
  There has to be hikmah. There's time, place, pamphlets,
• 1:26:50
  honey, coordination. We need to have institutions
• 1:26:54
  that are coordinated in helping the non Shia community to
• 1:27:00
  understand what these behaviors stand for and represent.
• 1:27:05
  Michaelish Mohem and on the other hand, for the martinis.
• 1:27:12
  Again, before I post a picture of Azadari of Ajulus, of a
• 1:27:23
  matter, I have to be familiar with the thick of photography as
• 1:27:29
  well. Does the fic allow me to capture
• 1:27:35
  a picture? To take a picture or a video of
• 1:27:38
  somebody and then upload it without their consent or no
• 1:27:42
  masala fikhia Lola, I have to think about this.
• 1:27:46
  Perhaps I took a picture and that person is not happy that
• 1:27:49
  his image goes on Instagram or Facebook.
• 1:27:52
  Women in the background. There's a lot.
• 1:27:54
  Women in the background. If I can just.
• 1:27:56
  Show I have to on that fake perspective.
• 1:27:59
  We need to be important, we need to we need to be careful
• 1:28:03
  otherwise we are claiming to spread because the idea behind
• 1:28:06
  putting the images on social media is what spread the Azhar
• 1:28:09
  of Imam Hussein Samam is spreading the message of Imam Al
• 1:28:11
  Hussein by promoting ignorance and FICA and trampling on the
• 1:28:16
  rights of other people. So I will and mohim person has
• 1:28:19
  to go go back to the faki and understand what is the fak
• 1:28:23
  behind this malalo Haram without their consent or law.
• 1:28:26
  Can I upload pictures of people without their consent #2 There
• 1:28:33
  has to be a reason and the wisdom behind posting images,
• 1:28:42
  pictures, videos, whatever it is about Azadari in general.
• 1:28:48
  What am I trying to achieve from this?
• 1:28:52
  And let your stories and your feeds and your reels were
• 1:28:57
  everything else that is connected to this.
• 1:29:00
  Let it be connected in such a way that it allows the people to
• 1:29:05
  understand why it is occurring. We are so fixated on the on the
• 1:29:12
  is it called, what is it aesthetics, on the aesthetics of
• 1:29:16
  the occurrence. But then we neglect why this
• 1:29:23
  occurred to begin with. So we all did fair fine tuning
• 1:29:28
  in this. And at the end of the day, we
• 1:29:29
  are one community. We hold each other's hands, we
• 1:29:32
  educate each other. Sessions like these, you know,
• 1:29:35
  outside of the podcast Yabe, these things need to be
• 1:29:39
  coordinated. There has to be a reason.
• 1:29:41
  There has to be a hikma behind this.
• 1:29:44
  And as long as we have a hikma and a goal and a target defined,
• 1:29:48
  then you notice even the quality of the posts begin to change,
• 1:29:54
  begin the reels begin to change. And this is the power of social
• 1:29:58
  media, by the way, marketing. You can make one action be
• 1:30:06
  perceived as the most despicable action on earth, and at the same
• 1:30:13
  time you could make that same image be perceived as the most
• 1:30:19
  beloved action. That's true.
• 1:30:22
  How you deliver it? Yeah.
• 1:30:23
  Yeah, man, I cannot be. This is Hidma also to a moment.
• 1:30:28
  Sure, we I know, I know we probably don't have time today,
• 1:30:31
  but in that on that note as well, we received so many
• 1:30:36
  questions about the photography and videography of Julius where
• 1:30:42
  you have topless men and the modesty question.
• 1:30:47
  We received a question from a sister who, paraphrasing, she
• 1:30:51
  said she's a revert to Shiism and she's recently joined the
• 1:30:54
  school of the Adebet. I am Saddam, she says.
• 1:30:57
  This is one thing I don't understand.
• 1:30:59
  It's something I'm struggling with.
• 1:31:01
  The the practice of modesty is so embedded in our tradition,
• 1:31:06
  more so than other schools of thought.
• 1:31:08
  But it's one thing which comes across as contradictory.
• 1:31:11
  Of course. Again, there's a cultural
• 1:31:13
  element to it. Some communities engage in it
• 1:31:15
  more than others. Is there any quick fire answer
• 1:31:18
  you can give on that specific point or is that?
• 1:31:25
  From what I understand is that removing the shirt on its own al
• 1:31:31
  assal, the hokum on its own is jawaz, is permissibility.
• 1:31:37
  However, this permissibility is not unconditional.
• 1:31:41
  It is conditional permissibility.
• 1:31:43
  So it is restricted to a number of criterias and these criterias
• 1:31:49
  are dependent on time. These are dependent on space.
• 1:31:55
  It's dependent in the environment in which you are
• 1:31:59
  removing the shirt in for men, in a men's Hosseinia, for
• 1:32:05
  example. In that sense there is no harm.
• 1:32:09
  But even in that setting there are conditions, of course.
• 1:32:12
  So I know that the Maharaja have gone into quite a bit of detail.
• 1:32:17
  And then on the other hand, there is sometimes, excuse me,
• 1:32:20
  sometimes there is the issue that comes into play, the issue
• 1:32:24
  of tazahom. Tazahom is when you have two
• 1:32:27
  principles that are contradicting with each other.
• 1:32:31
  You have two concepts that are contradicting with each other.
• 1:32:34
  So on one hand you have this perception that modesty is not
• 1:32:40
  being observed and on the other hand you have the concept of the
• 1:32:47
  expression of grief in which the shirt is being removed.
• 1:32:52
  Now when these two clash, which one you have this concept of
• 1:32:56
  Mohim waham, the important and the more important.
• 1:33:00
  This is for a fucky to decide and I know they are varying
• 1:33:04
  answers in this so I would not want to be in a position where I
• 1:33:08
  transgress or give a personal opinion.
• 1:33:11
  You can refer back to the words of the for Kahinda Olama in
• 1:33:15
  terms of the the boundaries that are being drawn.
• 1:33:19
  But definitely, again, you know, we need to understand that this
• 1:33:23
  is a communal movement and. There's nuance.
• 1:33:27
  There's nuances we need to work with each other, and everybody
• 1:33:32
  involved in this institution needs to understand what the
• 1:33:35
  impact is on those around them as well.
• 1:33:38
  This factor needs to be taken into consideration.
• 1:33:41
  At the end of the day, our goal is to father the the, the, the,
• 1:33:47
  the decor and the values for which Imam Al Hussein sacrificed
• 1:33:51
  his life for. May we be successful for Him.
• 1:33:55
  It always brings so much joy to us to be able to sit with you
• 1:34:01
  and learn from Him. And we ask our last one to Allah
• 1:34:04
  to give you more years of Hedman service to the Allah to give you
• 1:34:10
  a long life in their service and to give you a lineage and you
• 1:34:14
  know prosperous lineage Inshallah of generations to
• 1:34:19
  follow in your family who continue the service to the
• 1:34:22
  Allahabad Alayhi Salaam until we inshallah unite under the I know
• 1:34:26
  of the amount of our time. I'm sorry, it's a lot to other
• 1:34:29
  followers, thank you so much. I think it needs a Part 2 one
• 1:34:32
  day. That in sharp message.
• 1:34:34
  Probably part three-part 4. In fact, I would like to thank
• 1:34:39
  you baby Ahmed Sayed for your for your kind words and honestly
• 1:34:45
  praising, which I don't even really deserve.
• 1:34:48
  I think you're very generous in the in, in your words and in
• 1:34:51
  your description. And at the same time, I would
• 1:34:53
  also like to thank you for the hard work that you do in terms
• 1:34:58
  of propagating our our faith and the message of Ahmed Bait
• 1:35:04
  throughout the year in a very tireless manner.
• 1:35:08
  And the impact that you are having on the wider society in
• 1:35:14
  terms of establishing Tashayo not only in the United Kingdom
• 1:35:20
  but beyond, I think this is something great.
• 1:35:23
  To be very honest. You are sources of inspiration
• 1:35:26
  for me. Not at all.
• 1:35:27
  And Alhamdulillah Washokar, if we are able to, to cooperate and
• 1:35:33
  help each other in this, in this aspect, encourage, motivate each
• 1:35:37
  other, there is no greater, there is no greater bond of
• 1:35:40
  brotherhood other than through service.
• 1:35:44
  So it's the bonds of will. I are by far the strongest, so I
• 1:35:49
  thank you for giving me the opportunity to be on this
• 1:35:51
  platform with you and I pray for your ongoing success in Shah
• 1:35:57
  Allah and for you to continue to touch thousands and thousands of
• 1:36:01
  hearts in Shah I'm. Something chef I argue so much.
• 1:36:04
  In Shah Allah keeping your duas in Shah.
• 1:36:05
  Likewise, remember us in your duas as well.
• 1:36:10
  Inshallah we will be back. As always, before you leave,
• 1:36:13
  make sure to comment below how you felt about this episode.
• 1:36:16
  Hopefully it's opened up a new world of information for you
• 1:36:20
  all, as it has for say that Ali and I.
• 1:36:23
  Any questions you have, comments, feedback, thoughts,
• 1:36:26
  drop it in the comments below. We will be back next week and
• 1:36:29
  make sure you check out the website.
• 1:36:31
  I say that Ali said aftermarket.com/ya Hussein to be
• 1:36:35
  a part of the Aftermarket team, to keep supporting us, the work
• 1:36:39
  we do and inshallah the journey continues.
• 1:36:42
  Take care. Inshallah we'll see you next
• 1:36:44
  week. Salam Alaikum.