Latest / Reel Talk with Rich: Stories in Sportscasting / Reel Talk with Rich: Tom Hart
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- Rich: Welcome to Reel Talk with Rich Stories in Sportscasting. This is a podcast about sports, media, and the intersection of both. I'm your host, Rich Hollenberg. I'm a veteran play-by-play announcer, anchor, and reporter at the top levels of this business. And I'm also the host and founder of the Break It and Breakthrough Sportscasting Cohort, a program designed to reach the next generation of top talent who have the passion and potential to chase their dreams. Each conversation will make you better in front of a mic by taking you behind the scenes. No bull, no fluff, just the straight scoop on sports casting. This is Reel Talk. Welcome to this edition of Reel Talk Stories in Sportscasting with me, Rich Hollenberg. My guest this week is Midwest Born and Bred, but now he's turned into the voice of the South. And more specifically, the Southeastern Conference, the SEC. Tom Hart's been with ESPN in various capacities for the last 15 years, and he's had plenty of interesting stops. Along the way from Columbia, Missouri, where it all started, to Atlanta, Georgia, and beyond. Tom's always a fun hang, and you'll see that from this conversation. Don't forget, subscribe, rate, and review to this podcast. I want to know what you think about it, how we could be better, who you might want to hear from in the coming episodes. Also, check us out on YouTube. There's a video portion of this at Rich Hollenberg B I B. T. Without further ado, Reel Talk with Tom Hart. All right, Tom Hart. Let's start with this. I wanna go all the way back to the beginning. When did you decide that Tom Hart was going to be a sportscaster? Tom Hart: Probably back in in high school. So my origin story starts with a high school basketball injury. played with my best friends, played on a great team. We ended up going to the state final four, my junior year of high school, but I broke my wrist. early in February. So I was on the shelf for the last month of the season. And at that same time, I had just started taking a radio broadcasting class that was offered at my high school. Also in conjunction with that, Rich: For for for listeners and watchers, Tommy, where are you from? Where are we talking about? Tom Hart: sorry. Yeah, it's back up. Columbia, Missouri, Rich: There we go. Tom Hart: Rockbridge High School, a lot of tie-ins with the University of Missouri. I grew up just blocks away from campus. one of which was the original teacher for this course was a mentor named Rod Kelly, who has since passed away. Rod was the longtime color analyst for Missouri basketball on the radio. So, what a great guy to learn the industry from. Well, Rod went in for a medical issue. Early in the semester, and now of a sudden he's out. And we have an English teacher who knew nothing about radio broadcasting. Thank you, Miss Miller, who took over the class. Well, Rod left after the first class, in which he had given us the assignments, and we all had a certain role for that week. Those roles were supposed to change weekly. They didn't change because we ended up with a backup teacher. I was the host week one, yada yada. I ended up being the host the entire semester. And as part of the host, I would wrap up the show. I would package it. I would drive it across town and put it in the overnight mail slot at KFRU AM Radio 1400 in Columbia, Missouri. And I would go over there probably Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and drop it off. And it would air Sunday mornings at I think 8 a.m. Okay, great. You know, here we go. And I had fun putting it together and had fun hearing my voice on it and and thought, this is kind of a cool way to do things. Well, one Saturday morning I'm leaving, I'm leaving basketball practice and I still have this big cast on my arm, and I'm trying to maneuver my 1979 Pontiac Bonneville onto South Providence Road, and I take the turn a little bit wide instead of cutting it like I should have. Boom, fender bender with this elderly couple in Columbia, Missouri. We get out, we exchange information. The lady looks at my license and she goes, Tom Hart from KFRU. We listen to your show every Sunday morning on our way to church. So that was that's the origin story. that was just the watering of the seed, right? I mean, 16 years old, maybe, yeah, 16. I have no idea if there's a career in this thing. I I enjoyed doing it and I enjoyed it being a distraction from the frustration of not being with my buddies on the basketball court. But it it was just a thing that I did. And then lo and behold, I gained some confidence and learned that maybe I could be okay at this and there's a future. And then that that motivated me to push more doors open, I think. Rich: Outstanding elderly Missouri lady reference. the imitation was terrific. I've always known and admired your pipes, but I didn't know you had that in you. That was great. so when obviously most people now know you as a play-by-play voice for football, for basketball, and baseball. So, when did you learn the so to speak blocking and tackling of play-by-play and what it takes to make it in the business? As a play by play announcer. Tom Hart: I I don't mean to use this term as a put down of anybody who helped me in my career, because I got help at a million different turns and I pick brains for advice left and right. But generally speaking, I think of myself as self-taught. And the reason I put it that way is because when I was going through college, there wasn't really there wasn't a play-by-play course that was offered at that time. There was you could take a million different journalism courses, broadcast, print. hosting you go the meteorology route you could do whatever you wanted but there was nobody to teach me play by play so somehow i talked my way into a minor league baseball internship and got on the air and every night and i must have picked this up from from another minor league broadcast right but i was told hey you've got to you've got to self-critique you've got to listen to your own tapes and make yourself better and And by the way, send off to others or ask for advice. That's fine, but you're going to be your best teacher. And so every night I would finish the broadcast, which I had recorded on a mini disc, and I would pop that into my mini disc player on the bus on the way back. And I would have to listen to my own game and go, gosh, that was terrible. Hey, let's stop being repetitive with that term. let's find s some ways to expand the vocabulary. And let's and and my knowledge, Rich, was really, yeah, I took classes and I knew kind of what I was supposed to do, I guess the very basics, but my knowledge was based on my listenership or viewership as a fan. I knew broadcasters I liked, I knew the styles that I liked, and and it wasn't it wasn't imitating Vin Scully or trying to be, you know, for some people, trying to be the next Michael Kay. No, it wasn't. It was what is good, what is not good, what do I enjoy hearing? How can I put my own voice to those backgrounds? And Rich: Yeah. Tom Hart: and how can I kind of write this song out to where I'm comfortable with how it sounds? and it takes, you know, what did Malcolm Gladwell say? 10,000 hours, right? Like Rich: Yeah. Tom Hart: it takes a long time to find the voice, to find the delivery, and then and I always tell people this as a teaching tool. Everybody wants personality. Like that, that is a key, that's what makes you stand out. But you can't jump out day one, in my opinion, and be the personality guy. Right. As a play-by-play announcer, you've got to have all the basics down. You've got to be able to block and tackle before you throw a flea flicker. Okay. So let's figure out the basics and let's make sure our I's are dotted and our T's are crossed. And then once you get comfortable with that, and that it almost becomes muscle memory. Now all a sudden you can add a little personality and some humor and you know, you can spice up the pot roast a little bit, but you better make sure it's cooked first. Rich: Well said. And the experience that you gained. That's the biggest teacher that you or anybody could have. And it it leads perfectly to my next question. What I'm curious about growing up in Missouri, in the Midwest, the heartland, who were your sports casting heroes? I I I've known you for a bunch of years. I think you were a Royals fan growing up. Tom Hart: Yeah, yeah. so Grom Columbia, Missouri, if you're a baseball fan, you had St. Louis two hours to the east, Kansas City two hours to the west. Rich: Right. Tom Hart: I was my my dad's family is from southeastern Kansas. I was pulled towards the Royals. the Royals, in my opinion at the time, were more the blue-collar, gritty team and the Cardinals, and I this is especially true of the broadcasters, or in my opinion. The Cardinals were, you know. Little more hoity toity than than the West Side of Set. Yeah, a little bougie. Rich: Yeah, bougie. Tom Hart: And by the way, that that that was reflected in the booth. Buck and Shannon were broadcasting royalty. You know, like it and I envisioned their booth as having this velvet rope around it. And you know, you'd be you'd be welcome to watch from a distance, but hey buddy, like this isn't maybe this isn't for you. Pool or a pond, right? A pond would be good for you. Like that, but I I held it in such high esteem because man, that seemed like the coolest place to be in the entire, you know, in all of Bush Stadium. Whereas the Royals with Fred White and Denny Matthews, they were s just seemed so much more inviting to me. And and Rich probably part of it was this the Cardinals were much more popular. KMOX was this boomer, right? Everybody listened. And the Royals broadcast just seemed more intimate. Like they were talking directly to you. You, Tom Hart, sitting in your mom's car while she's in the grocery store that night. and the Cardinals, you were trying to be part of this bigger community. And I've always thought about that, not necessarily intentionally going into a broadcast, but I I I think it's a fun exercise to do. Well, well, which would you rather portray? Right? Would you rather portray the Hey, I'm talking directly to you as a listener, and I want you to be part of this. And we're at the bar hanging out together. Or hey, you're part of this audience, right? And you're here as an audience member. And I don't know one's right or wrong. It just struck me that intentionally or unintentionally, those were the vibes that those two broadcasts gave off. And I thought Rich: Yeah. Tom Hart: that was really cool. but by the way, University of Missouri broadcast back in the day. I mean, I remember sitting in my living room waiting for a friend's, you know, mom to come pick us up. And I'm listening to Kevin Harlan do Missouri basketball on the radio. John Rooney did Missouri football for a number of years. The the guys that came through and did especially Missouri football broadcasts were fantastic. Costas did it. Costa called Missouri basketball. Joe Buck was doing Missouri basketball on television, you know, the the local broadcast for a couple of years. So Man, you got everybody. And and but generally, Rich, generally it was what you were kind of alluding to at the beginning, which is Midwest sensibilities, not a whole lot of flair, pot roast, meat and potatoes, give me the basics. And you know, yes, are are there Midwest accents? Yeah, you get to Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan, you can hear them. but generally speaking, in mid-Missouri, there there aren't real strong regional dialects. D do they say quarter weird in St. Louis? Yeah. And there's a difference between pop and soda in St. Louis and and Kansas City. but it's not what you get, you know, in Jersey. It's not what you get in other portions of of our country, Texas, for example. So I think that also helped throughout my career. Rich: What are trying to say about New Jersey, Tom? What's wrong with that? Tom Hart: Only great things, only the best things. Rich: I that's what I love about where you grew up in that area as I came to learn it as a broadcaster was you appeal naturally, like in your DNA, you appeal to the masses, and it's not intentional, it's not put on. It is as authentic as it could be. So in that sense, you had a great advantage and a great leg up, and it's neat that. As an up-and-coming sportscaster, you recognize that and embraced it as well because I hear it in your broadcasts now. So what do you think all these years down the road, what do you think the main ingredients are to making a great broadcast across any sport that you've called? Tom Hart: Well, first of all, that's a great compliment. It really is. And it's nice of you to say. And even though it's not intentional in a broadcast, I think it is intentional from an approach, right? To be inclusive, to use a you know, a buzzy word. And that means a lot of things to a lot for a lot of different people. But to me, it means when I come into a town to do a broadcast, I'm not just parachuting in, I'm learning more about the town and the people and the fans. and once again, not put on. It's not a it's not a duty. It's something that I enjoy doing in my daily life, whether it's, you know, g getting the breast breakfast spot recommendations from you, or going to the steakhouse or, you know, grabbing a pop at the bar, whatever it might be. Like I I'm gonna go out and be social instead of locked into my hotel room. I think there's value to that to me, is to talk to people and get a feel for for what we're doing. the second part, the actual question that you asked. What was it? Rich: Main ingredients to a great broadcast. Tom Hart: yeah. Well, listen, I think the number one the number one ingredient is simply to be aware of your surroundings. And that that can mean a lot of different things. It can be, you know, putting the game first. It can be you know, knowing the room and and what's happening, the stresses of the of the game, what the coaches and players are are going through and all that stuff. It's just kind of being aware of that. But most importantly, You're going be working with a partner most of the time. I know, you know, growing up and starting this thing out, I was on the air for 140 nights of summer doing minor league baseball just by myself. So Rich: By yourself. Yeah. Tom Hart: I understand they're, you know, that's part of the growth. But be a great partner. Be a great partner by being a great listener. Listen to them. Make them comfortable. get the best out of your partner. And in in some ways, it's servicing that relationship before you service being the play by play guy. Now there's Careful how I say this, but there's room for selfishness. but that has to be in a very specific part of the broadcast. You know, hey, listen, final two possessions, it's on me. Look, I need you to get in and out. No matter the sport, I need you to get in and out so we can set up the play. last 30 seconds, you know, of the basketball game. It's on me. Let me do it. Let me call the game. This is my strength. but that's a tiny, tiny portion of the broadcast. And it's also a tiny portion of relationship with your analyst, right? The the two hours or three hours you're on the air is just part of it. It's being a good partner outside of that time to learn what's important to them, to learn what they want to talk about, to put them in a position to succeed. And if you don't do that, and the people listening to this, like it specifically, if you don't do it and I'm watching your game, I hear that. bosses hear that. Does the average fan hear it? They hear it in a different way. Right. They something they they understand that there's a lack of connection there. but to me, that's the main ingredient is is being a great partner and being selfless 99% of the broadcast and getting out of the way, so that person can succeed. And then now all of a sudden you've got community, right? You've got a relationship that you're building and you've got two people talking about a game. That the audience is interested in hearing from and being with. Rich, you and I are married. We've been to plenty of of events with our significant others where we walk in and you see a couple across the room and you go, Okay, no, I can't. They fight all the time. He hates her, she hates him, or what I we're not dealing with them tonight, right? Let's go talk to the people who like each other and like to be around each other. Conflict may work for morning talk shows. It does not work for a game broadcast. Rich: Yeah, well said. you you already answered the question about chemistry. And for those of you watching or listening right now, you've probably seen Tom for close to the last decade with the same crew. That doesn't happen very often in our industry, but now all of a sudden, new football season, new crew for you, Tommy Hart. So how do you I I'm gonna deem you a master at building chemistry in a broadcast booth? How do you handle that? when it becomes something new for you instead of something that you're used to and already feels baked in. Tom Hart: Yeah, great question. And I actually on our production call la before our first game of this college football season, I apologized to our crew. I said, Bear with me, I'm going to go through some growing pains. Because there are things that I developed over nine years in the booth with Jordan Rogers and ten years with Cole Kublik on the sideline that I was able to tuck into muscle memory and take for granted. in fact after our first game, I was talking to Roddy about it and and I had to apologize to him. just to Get into the details of it real quick. I worked with Jordan for so long that when he was calling a replay or walking through a replay or going through something complicated, it could be a targeting call that has multiple replays. I was able to remove myself from that part of the conversation and take care of work on this side of the booth. For example, my stats guy, Greg Campbell, has been with me along with my spot spotter Chris Capo since I started at ESPN 14 years ago. I can turn and have a conversation with them. I'm hearing what my analyst is saying, even though I may not be able to process every word because I'm getting specific. Hey, pull up this specific rule. I need this. whatever the conversation you have off-air with your stats guy, that can occur while he's doing work over here, which is going on over there. And there's a trust factor that I can pick up on key words. And get back into that conversation without forcing them to be redundant or me stating something that they had just stated. So that's a that that's a difficult road to weave when you're working with somebody for the first time. Number one, going back to what we talked about earlier, it can make them uncomfortable because they ex are expecting to have a conversation and you are giving them the Heisman to turn your attention to your stats guy to make sure that you're getting the proper information over here. So that's hard. and that comes with time. And and you kind of get that's a very specific example, I know. But to answer your big picture question, it's it's you know, Roddy lives in Atlanta. He and I went for coffee in a couple weeks before the season started. And we've known each other for for years anyway, so that makes it easy. And it's hey, let's go grab dinner Friday night, right? Like, hey, let's we the games run all day, let's let's grab lunch together. And watch the games together. And it's conversing in a way that is natural, human, friendly, but taking nuggets of those conversations and putting them in your back pocket because and and and using them in the broadcast. to back up, it may not be specific. Something you say at lunch may not be fair game for me to hold you to during the broadcast. But if I know how you feel about a certain topic. And that came up while we were having a cheeseburger and fries at walk-ons. I actually love the strawberry salad, while watching games, then I can set you up and we can have that conversation again with a much larger audience because I know it's something that you're passionate about. Or I know it's a you have an interesting angle on a certain topic. And I think all of that is really important when it comes to chemistry. once again, rewinding, I'm talking a lot, but it's about being a good listener. It's about listening to what your partner says and what matters to them to get the best out of them and and to develop that chemistry. But a lot of it is you know, ninety percent of that's off air. Rich: Right, right. You're you're it's hard work making it look easy. Part of the way you do that is you do your work before you go on the air. And I tell up and coming sportscasters all the time, Tom, that you could be authentic and strategic at the same time. Both of those things can be true when you're interacting with people because it serves a purpose. And ultimately, if you're making them look good, then you look good as the lead broadcaster, as the play-by-play guy. Speaking of play by play, most of us know you as a triple threat. I'm sure you've covered other sports, but as the sports calendar makes a circle around the sun, you're going from football to basketball to baseball. How does handling all three of those sports, or just in general, a variety of sports, multiple sports, how does that inform the job that you do in any given event you call as a broadcaster? How does that help? Tom Hart: Well, I I think generally speaking, and we can talk the X's and O's of it. in fact, we'll let's start with the X's and O's of it, and I'll circle back to my big picture thought on it. being a part of broadcast year round gives you a leg up on the analysts that you work with that are only part of broadcast for their specific season, which for me, if you divide it in thirds, that's a pretty small window, right? By the time I get to basketball season, I got basketball analysts coming out of their skin, wanting so badly to share everything that they know. Where I'm coming off the tail end of a football season where we've already whittled all that stuff down. You know, like the the erosion of over talking has already occurred over three months of football. And so I think I can be helpful to those basketball analysts and go, hey, listen, nobody knows who the third string point guard at Wisconsin is. So you can't just say Smith or Johnson. Like you're gonna have to use names. We're gonna have to be a little bit more treetop. Ease people into your season, right? Instead of hitting them over the head with this hammer. so that's an advantage, I think, in in doing multiple sports. The pace of each sport, as we all know, is different. I'm not a hockey guy, never been a hockey guy. But if they called me up to do hockey, I would say, okay, that pace is so much different than anything else. Now I'm gonna have to be a memorization announcer and an identification announcer with my eyes, as opposed to. A chart guy who can glance down and remind myself how old that kid is or where he was before, whatever biographical information that I deem imprope appropriate, generally speaking, I don't need to memorize. I'm gonna be familiar with it, but I can read it off of a chart during a game. So I think that's a big difference is learning how the t different tempos fit. what can you take from calling a no-huddle, pushing the tempo, two-minute offense football team? To your first basketball game. how do your basketball stories and ability to tell a story in a concise manner when a player's at a free throw line and you get eight seconds to get the story in, or it's two shots, you got 16 seconds plus the ball getting back to them. how does telling a story in that concise manner and getting the most out of it translate into weaving a story into a player's at bat where you don't know how long it's gonna be? And so all of those things work in concert, I think to make you better from a a well-rounded perspective. But the bottom line is in the big picture answer to that is generally speaking, the athletes are fans of other athletes. They're fans of other sports. They may not sit down and watch red zone all day, but they're probably in a fantasy league, right? They they watch Sunday night football. They watch Monday night football. They maybe didn't go to games like you and I did throughout their childhood because they were too busy playing all these games. but they appreciate LeBron's talent. And I'm speaking with a, you know, big general day. And so when you can use that crossover to and I've got a I got a couple of great examples of that, but when you can use that crossover to break the ice with a coach and or a player and get information from them. Just bait I you're not mining for information. I don't mean it to sound like that. But you can have a conversation. I can have a conversation with Michael Harris a second about him having the first pick in the Atlanta Braves fantasy draft and what direction he decided to go. is that the most important information in the world? No. But that helps humanize Michael and his next at bat. Let's talk about the str the stress that he had in the fantasy draft. Well, what you going quarterback or running back with a first overall pick? You can take Jameer Gibbs. Is that is that what we're gonna do? Like what what's the decision here? And I think that makes for a more interesting broadcast. And if you can work those stories in, not only is it better for the viewer, but now all of a sudden you've got another touch point with the people that you cover on a regular basis. Rich: I don't wanna get too serious or too deep because we're having too much fun to do that, but every sportscaster at any stage of his or her career is gonna face some semblance of adversity. How have you handled whatever adversity you faced in your career, Tom? Tom Hart: that's a great question. You know, it comes at you in different ways. And and in different waves. So I I don't know. I'm trying to think of Dealing with disappointment on a daily basis is a a something we all humans go through, you know, and and whatever that could be. It could be the death of a loved one, it could be the inconvenience of a flat tire, it whatever. It's a pretty wide spectrum right there, right? So to me, the question is how do I compartmentalize whatever I'm dealing with away from the broadcast so folks at home have no idea that. That got in the way. and there's a couple of different ways to do that. And and you may be asking more big picture, and I might be going more micro here. but I think it's all related in that if let's just say it's a flat tire. I mean, th there's no comparison to a flat tire and death of a loved one, except for the time that it takes you away from the game, right? And the game, the preparation to broadcast, the traveling in late, whatever it might be. If you're a hard worker and your work ethic is such that you've already got the hay in the barn, then you can deal with a last minute detour. You can deal with a disruption in your schedule because the work is already done. I remember hearing the story of a broadcaster who didn't get the time that he wanted with the head coach at shoot around. And all he did was bitch and moan to the SID. I need to talk to that coach. I need to prepare for this game. I need this, I need that. Well, bullshit. If you're prepared, you don't have to speak to that head coach. You know, you should know everything about his team. You should have watched the press conferences already. is there value? Absolutely. But you shouldn't be asking those same questions anyway. You should be asking questions that build off of that. Your own unique experiences. but but you should be. prepared to go into a broadcast and do it without those touch points. and then I think the other part of it, like the more big picture, the macro, for those of us who have been in the industry for years, is you're going to lose jobs, you're going to be let go, you're going to have a contract non-renewed. you're going to be pulled off of packages that you've given your heart and soul to for a number of years. and you're going to wonder, well, why would they want to lose the institutional knowledge that I bring versus, you know, The next person. And the reality is it's a business. It's a business. And you've got to be invested in yourself to the point where. Those managers, whatever title you want to give them, don't impact your happiness on a day-to-day basis. You might lose a job, you may lose an assignment, you may not get the game that you were hoping for and watch it go to somebody else. I've learned over the years to not let that bother you as much or to not get frustrated by a specific manager. Rich, they're probably gonna be gone in 12 to 18 months. Rich: Mm-hmm. Tom Hart: That's just the churn that occurs at the corporate level. And I know you can you're probably going through your brain right now, going, hey, yeah, that's right. Over in this sport, this this the churn looks like this. In this sport, the Rich: Yeah. Tom Hart: churn looks like that. it took me a long time to realize that. Like I I thought when I first showed up that the coordinating producer that I had in this sport was gonna be the person who's gonna be there lockstep in my career forever. The truth of the matter is. This person gets promoted. This person leaves for another opportunity. This person gets laid off. Like there's a lot of churn. So don't get caught up in frustration with manager B because they don't believe in you or they don't invest in you, even though you wish that they would. be a professional, deal with them on a professional level and understand that you're in it for the long haul. You know, these are long careers. We don't have to retire at 50. Right. You can keep doing this job for a very long time and you're going to work with a lot of different people. So keep it professional. Don't get frustrated by them and understand that a lot of times the decisions are coming from from other directions. And if you can't manage up, if if that's not a strength of yours, or you just don't have that opportunity, you know, bite your lip, bite your time. there'll be change. That's that's what we know. There'll be change Rich: Yeah. Tom Hart: coming. Rich: Yeah. The job is the job. And that's what you can control at the end of the day, because there's so much that's out of our control. And yeah, it can get frustrating. all right, let's have some fun. I don't know if these two moments are the same moment or separate, but as a sportscaster, I want to know what your favorite moment has been in your career. But by the same token, I also want to know. What was the best game that you've called in your career so far? Sometimes that's the same answer, sometimes it's Tom Hart: Yeah. Rich: different. Go ahead. Tom Hart: Well, w what I've really enjoyed about my career is is generally speaking, the variety that I've had. one of my favorite moments all time was being the field reporter for the Braves, Chippers last year. And a very specific moment to that. And by the way, it wasn't just like it was cool, right? Like freaking Chipper Jones, right? But what was really Cool about it, if you want to use that term, is how much it meant to the fan base. Like him being with the same team for 20 years and and the investment that the fan base had on him and how it elevated that season for him and seeing what what his time in the net uniform meant to the fan base, I think was was really cool to follow along. So in the my in the micro, he going on the field. To interview him right after what turned out to be the last home run of his career, which was a walk off, I believe it was in the 10th, against Jonathan Papelbaum. It might have been in the ninth, but regardless, home walk off against Papelbon, his last home run, and the energy that you feel in the building. And Papelbaum was the premier closer in the game at the time. And Chipper was, you know, Hall of Famer. And I wait for the celebration, the mosh pit to end at the pit. And when you you know this, when you're in you're embedded with the team, you enjoy their success. it's not just good for you, but it you like you, you know, it's great. and he comes out of the mosh pit and he's a professional and he sees me sitting there, standing there, and he knows he knows what we're about to do. Rich, he dapped me up after his last home run. Rich: Love it. Tom Hart: And it wasn't like like I listen, I know some people are fanboys in moments. I wasn't fanboying, like I had a job to do, and it was just natural. I'm holding with my left hand and he comes walking up. Come on, man. Come what? You just went yard off a papa bond to walk this thing off. And so that moment was really cool. And then big moments, Other games. I think it's what resonates with you, right? we had the chance me, Jordan Cole, to go call the Rose Bowl on radio. It was Ohio State, Utah. It was like 50 48. It was an amazing game. But to me, it was the Rose Bowl, what that represented. I'd I'd never been in the building. I'd certainly never been there for a Rose Bowl game. That was awesome. And then just to kind of tie it all together, have one game. That I've requested from my bosses over the years, where I've said, hey, listen, I'm not a schedule hawk. I'm not begging for stuff, but this one game means a lot to me. And if it works out, I would appreciate the opportunity to do it. And here's why I think having me on the game would be beneficial. And that's Missouri. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's Missouri, Kansas. Like Rich: I know what you're gonna say. Yep. Tom Hart: that's the rivalry that I grew up with. And so having that, putting that request in and having the bosses go. Yeah, you know, like we don't have anybody in the building that knows that rivalry like you. Sure. You're gonna do it with different guys. You're gonna go to Allen Fieldhouse, you're gonna go to go do that game. Like fourth grade Tom would have just been over his skis. And the first time, and I'd been to Allen Fieldhouse before, but I hadn't been for a big game. So and Bill self appreciates the rivalry, and I got a million offshoots of of these events over the last, I guess I've done four of them. Maybe five. Yeah, five of And since a rival return. So two years ago in Columbia, Missouri, Kansas comes in number one. Missouri knocks them off. Court storm, the whole deal. And post game interview, no sideline reporter, post game interview at the desk with the crowd on the court was was really, really cool. I had I had it was an early game. I had a flight that night out of St. Louis, so I wasn't staying the night. But I did have some downtime and had some time to kill. And so and I was driving to the interstate. I was like, I could I could get to St. Louis early. And I pulled off and I went to my favorite, you know, restaurant that we went to when I was a kid. And it was just this family style, you know, G and D steakhouse. I'm gonna go grab a gyro and same meals that I had as kind of the comfort food. Rich: Right. Tom Hart: of my of my youth and coming off of that game. Like it was it was really cool to tie all that stuff together. Rich: And you were calling that game with Fran, if I'm not mistaken. Was that a Fran for Schiller Tom Hart: Yeah, yeah, that one was with Fran. Rich: partnership? Tom Hart: Yeah, yeah. And Fran knows the rivalry and knows it really well. So it was cool Rich: Yeah. Yeah. Tom Hart: to have him. they rotated a couple analysts through when this rivalry first came back based on where it fell on the schedule. so yeah, to having Fran there. a guy knows Norm Stewart really well. He knows obviously the Kansas program and the Big Twelve so well and the history and him having done Big Monday forever. That was yeah, that was a cool partnership. Rich: Yeah, so made it extra hard for you because you had to carry him through the whole broadcast, but that's okay. We love Frank Freshilla on this podcast, by the way. He will be a guest. And he has a book coming Tom Hart: Awesome. Rich: out this year, Tommy. I don't know if you knew that. Franny wrote a book, Tom Hart: I didn't know that. Rich: so we're gonna be promoting that on this podcast. That's coming up as Tom Hart: Yeah. Rich: we get as we get closer to basketball season. Tom Hart: I did hear a rumor, I did hear a rumor that he was workshopping titles and I don't not sure if he landed on this one or not, but it was the ten smartest people in college basketball and what I think of the other nine. Rich: I like that. That would be vintage Fran. I have it on pretty good authority. He went another direction. But I Tom Hart: Okay, fair enough. Rich: I I like that one too. That's a good one too. all right. I got two more for you. One is a little out of left field. but I've always I mean this completely, sincerely, and wholeheartedly. I have always admired you on social media. you and I joke, for people listening, I've known Tom for 15 years. We've been friends for a while. And your Facebook account got hacked. So you are now. I know I'm not probably not supposed to bring names into this, but you have been known on Facebook as Ivan Johanna for years. And we have an ongoing joke about that. But all kidding aside, you have a tremendous social media following, and you seem to be someone, at least through my lens, who was an early adopter. Like get on board or get out of the way because this thing matters and it's relevant. What would your advice be to the up-and-comers about using social media to your advantage? Tom Hart: Well, that's a great question because I see people who do it wrong a lot, in in my eyes, and that's just my opinion. But Rich: What does that look like? Tom Hart: that looks like being obnoxious, that looks like being over the top, that looks like being a me person. This is all about me, me, me, me, me. To me, and and I think being authentic, now there the platforms g give you different opportunities, but my goal early on was Let's use this as a tool of engagement, not a tool of promotion. This isn't just about me, hey, catch me tonight on this or here's my upcoming schedule. No, it's it's showing your personality a little bit, engaging with fans. And it when I say engaging, I I'm sure I could build my following more if I followed tricks of the trade. if I got on every hot button issue and said, wow, what an unbelievable scene. At the big house today. What do you think of the clock situation? And then it's I'm I I'm not running a, you know, I don't know. it's not a blog. So anyway, I'd like to put myself out there a little bit. show personality. Everything's refined, right? Like to me, it's also I I don't want to say I don't want to be real, because I want to be authentic in everything that I do, but all of social media is curated. To a certain extent. And so in that regard, I would treat it like my resume tape. Like, I don't want to put anything out there that doesn't reflect well on me, either as a broadcaster or a person. but I like to have a sense of humor. So, whatever your personality is, give people a peek into that window. From a broadcasting perspective, you know, it's not all glamorous, it's okay with as long as it doesn't come across as a complaint. I I think it's interesting sometimes to show that you're up at 4 a.m. to drive to the airport for that 6 a.m. flight. but there's a difference between, man, big game last night, nobody's on the road this morning. hashtag team no sleep. There's a big difference between that and my God, another flight delay, another early flight. This is the worst. Like n no one feels sorry for you, for us, nor should they. Like the it it can be a glamorous. presentation, even though it's not a glamorous lifestyle. So I would say like be yourself, give people a peek behind the curtain, right? Engage. but don't don't overshare. Don't make it all about you. Don't don't pretend like you're the most important person in the room. Like it should be communal. It should be a way to engage with people and have them relate to you. To me, the biggest compliment I can get is when people make assumptions of you, and the assumption puts them in their group, right? And and listen, you could boil it down. Nobody wants to be a misassigned politically, but I've had people on both sides who have conversations with me who assume that I'm with them and believe it. And to me, that's because they like me and they want to engage with me and they go, he's one of us, right? And even if it's not. Politically, because that is a hot button issue, right? Obviously, it's hey, you must be a fan of our team because you know so much about our team. Like, and you know about how the fans talk about our team, or you know our favorite restaurant, or you know what it's like to go to this event in town that's separate. And so to go from to jump from point A to point B and for people to assume you're one of them, whatever that looks like, that can also be part of the social media engagement, right? And it's as simple as you're on the couch. I mean, last y yesterday, well, I just say recently, there's a lot of sports going on. And I had the Braves game on and Ronald Acuni hit a huge home run. And so I just tweeted out Ronald with three exclamation points. That was my reaction when he did it, right? In a big moment, a big game. And what did that do? That spoke to all the Braves fans that are on my timeline timeline. And that there's a good chunk of them. Who knew that I was doing the exact same thing that they were doing at that exact moment. Like he's one of us. He's on the couch watching this game just like I am. And he had the same reaction that I did. And now I have a connection and another touch point with this person who is one of us or one with me. And so I think, I think it comes down to community. Man, Rich, that was a really, really long answer I just gave you. Rich: it was wonderful. At Tommy Hart on Instagram. At Tommy Hart on Instagram. all right, last question, brother. I I don't want to ask you to give your best advice to up-and-coming sports casters. I'd rather look at it this way. When young Tom Hart had made that decision that this is what you're going to chase as your career dream, what was the best advice that you got? At that point in your timeline where you still look back and say, it's valuable to this day to use those pearls of wisdom. Tom Hart: I think the most basic thing is take every job you can get. Say yes to everything. go for me in minor league baseball, I I had other friends and we were w working in parallel tracks that also wanted to get that next gig or whatever, who only called baseball. And they would treat the offseason like the offseason and and they had, in my opinion, narrow-minded goals that I only want to get to major. I want to get to the big leagues. I only want to get to, and that means only major league baseball. Okay. Well, you just cost yourself all these other opportunities out there. All these other I understand you want to be the voice of the Yankees. That's hard. Like the there's not a lot of churn there, fellas. so say yes to all the other sports, even if you don't know them very well. I had a chance to call out an Ohio State lacrosse game back in the day. I didn't want to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I don't I I didn't think I could serve it well. But I had to do it if I wanted to call the Ohio State Spring Football Game. Simple as that. That's how it was presented to me. Okay, guess I'm gonna learn lacrosse. We're gonna knock this out and I'll get to cover Urban Meyer and Ohio State Spring Football. Cool. say yes to everything. You may think that you have a direct line here. Probably don't. you may think that this direction is your passion that can change. Your interest can change over time, believe it or not. And so you might. You might shift from being an NFL only fan to being a college football fan. You may shift from being an NBA fan to realizing, and I say fan, I mean I'm really talking about passion. do you have more interest in hockey? Like you don't know until you experience all that stuff. So say yes to everything, be a voracious reader, learn everything that you can, go down rabbit holes, find nuggets, let your general curiosity take you to places that will pay off, even if it's not a direct payoff in a broadcast. And I think that general curiosity, just that word and that way of thinking can serve you well in a lot of different ways. The curiosity of, I got this offer to go call high school football in the town next door. Yeah, I'm curious about that. Let's go see what it is. you know, hey, I got this opportunity to go do something on my day off. Yeah, I'm curious about that. Let's go see what it is. Let's go see if that can pay off down the road. so th th those would I think generally speaking would be my two areas of focus. Don't say no. Be curious. Like go find stuff out. the the best scene, one of the best scenes in television, Rich, is the Dart scene in Ted Lasso when he talks about, you know, you the Emerson quote about being curious. And he said, You didn't ask me if I ever played pool growing up. Yeah, I played every day from eight years old on. And then boom, barbecue sauce. Like that's what made that a winning scene wasn't him hitting the bullseye at the end. What made it a winning scene was understanding that that curiosity fueled him throughout that character's entire life and career, but also fueled him in that moment and and allowed him to, you know, put down the big bully by throwing three darts at the end of the game. Rich: All comes back to Kansas City. How about that? Tom Hart: That's right. Gate's barbecue baby. Rich: well, Tom Hart, this was a a blast of a conversation. I knew it would be. all I could tell you from the bottom of my heart, you're as good a broadcaster as you are a friend. I thank you for joining me on Reel Talk, by Friend. Tom Hart: what an honor. Thanks for having me. Thanks for thanks for asking and thanks for being curious about my path. I appreciate Rich: As advertised, Tom Hart always a good hang, just like I said earlier. he's a blast to talk to, and he carries that into his broadcasting techniques. He even said it during our conversation. He wants to broadcast as if you're hanging out at a bar talking to him. And that's what the experience is like. Whenever I get to hang with Tom Hart, three big takeaways. From this conversation for up and coming and aspiring sportscasters, first off, being inclusive. I love how he brought that up. There is a Midwestern ethos to that. You are not broadcasting at someone, you're broadcasting with someone. And the inclusivity is not just with your broadcast partner, your analyst, but it's also with your audience. And Tom does a fantastic job of. Making local references or regional references in his broadcasts, not to be pandering to the audience, but to show that he is one of them. And he's always sounded and felt that way to me whenever I tune into one of the games he's calling. Takeaway number two: being a good partner on a broadcast equals being a great listener. You have to engage your analyst in conversation. You have to Set that person up to succeed. And when you do that, you end up looking good as well. It is a tandem effort when you have a two-man or two-person booth in broadcasting. And the same goes if it's a three-person booth, but you have to focus on making your analyst look good. And when they look good, we look good as play-by-play announcers. As for the third takeaway, From my conversation with Tom Hart, I think it goes all the way back to the beginning and the basics, which Tom talked about. He said you have to master the basics first. We both refer to it in this conversation as the blocking and tackling. You have to get the names right, you have to get the numbers right, before you could ever. be yourself uniquely, the biggest version of yourself, you have to be the best version of yourself on the air. And that best version of yourself goes all the way back to the basics or the blocking and tackling. I hope you enjoyed my conversation. Reel Talk with Tom Hart. As always, I would really appreciate it if you guys would subscribe to the podcast, would give us a really good rating, five stars preferred, and also write a review because I want to hear what you have to say about this podcast. Are you learning? Are you entertained? All that good stuff. Please let me know. And know that you could check us out on my YouTube channel, which is at rich hollenberg B I B. T. So check us out in any number of ways, Apple and Spotify podcasts or on my YouTube channel. That's it for this latest edition of Reel Talk with Rich. This time it was Tom Hart. We'll see you next week for more great stories in sports casting.