Latest / Luke's English Podcast / S1E30 - What Remains_ The Hagans Siblings on Love_ Loss_ and the Night Jonathan Disappeared(M4A_128K)

Transcript

S1E30 - What Remains_ The Hagans Siblings on Love_ Loss_ and the Night Jonathan Disappeared(M4A_128K) · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On Tragedy, we cover cases that involve real people and
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: real events. Episodes may include discussions of violence, criminal behavior,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and loss. We shared these stories to honor those impacted
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and to raise awareness, but they may not be suitable
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. It's hard to
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: imagine what Jacksonville Beach felt like that June evening in
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. The sound of the waves, the glow
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of the lights, and a family out celebrating what should
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: have been an ordinary night. Three year old Jonathan John
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: John Hagens was there with his parents and siblings, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: before the night ended, he was gone. More than fifty
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: years later, Jonathan's family is still serve for answers. Tonight,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: we hear their story through the memories of his sister,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: who was fifteen that night, and his brother, who was five,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: two voices remembering the same night in different ways and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: sharing their different perspectives. This is Tragedy, a true crime podcast.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Tragedy.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I'm Michael. Before we get started, I
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: understand that you have some updates on our FOYE request
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: for the Jonathan Hagen's case. You want to share those
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: with us.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, I do. Like with every other family story that
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: we cover, I always reach out to local law enforcement
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: under the Freedom of Information Act, which is what we
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: call the FOYA, and so I have done that with
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Jonathan's case several weeks ago, and I received an email
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: back from the records department at Jacksonville Beach asking me
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: to reach directly out to the detective who covers the cases.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: This is the first time something like this has happened.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we hear nothing, sometimes we hear no. But this
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: time they directly said reach out to Detective Warren with
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville Beach PD. So I sent that email over there
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and I got a phone call earlier in the week.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my understanding it was from the detective.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I got a phone call from Detective Warren,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and Detective Warren indicated to me that I could go
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: ahead anna Resa at the FOYA request to the records
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: department and that it had been approved. So I did
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that and I heard back immediately from them. This police
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: department has been extremely responsive in this case, which is
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: really really nice. So they've requested that we mail a fee,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: which is fine. Some police departments do ask a fee
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: when you request a foya, So I'll be sending that
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: fee out as soon as they get it. They will
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: let us know that they have it, and then they
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: will pull the report. And when I spoke to the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: gals and the records department, they said, then we need
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: to take some time to do any redacting that they
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: needed to do, but then it would be sent to us.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: So that's great news.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully it's not a lot of redacting. And this
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: is a pretty old case and so I wouldn't expect
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: a ton And what I'm hoping, you know, mostly from
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: this is, you know, as we listen to these stories
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today, you know there's some discrepancy,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: some things that aren't clear, some things that are different
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and be interesting to take those stories and then compare
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: what we see in the foy itself.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. I mean we do obviously keep in
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: mind that this is this is fifty seven years ago,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: and certainly, I mean I can't even remember what I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: had for lunch last week. People's this is true, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: people's memories changes, and lunch is not a traumatic thing, right.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Losing your sibling is very traumatic, and there are lots
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: of layers that go into what somebody remembers, and so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: our hope in getting this for Yeah, particularly is that
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: maybe we can get some clarity because I do know
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: from speaking to some of the siblings that they were
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: interviewed by police in the immediacy of Jonathan, within days
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of Jonathan disappearing. So I'm really hoping that we can
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: get some information from that, FOYA that will shed some
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: light on this. Obviously, we're always trying to support the
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: family and get as much clear information as we can.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So I think that's a good update, and we'll keep
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: everybody updated on when we get that.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, as far as today's episode, one thing that's a
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: little bit unique is, you know, we have Joe, which
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: is you know, one of Jonathan's brothers, and of course
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: we have Susan, which is one of his sisters. Susan
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: was quite a bit older, she was fifteen, and Joe,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, he was five. Is that correct, Yes,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: We talked to both of them about coming on the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: podcast and this particular event. While there has been a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: lot of time that's passed, it's still incredibly traumatic. And
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: so what they decided to do instead is provide some
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: statements that we're going to go through and kind of
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: pull out the narratives we can, so we can you
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: can kind of see from their individual perspectives. Now what's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: all going to be different is we're going to use
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: some AI voices to tell their parts. It's a little
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: bit more storytelling. So hopefully that's you know, it's the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: first time for us too, so hopefully it's entertaining and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: simfully it's helpful and it's not just listening to the
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: two of us drown on reading someone else's emails.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: So he's important to us that when we hear from
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: our families that we give them an opportunity to share
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: what they want our listeners to know about their loved one.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And so we did that with Susan and with Joe,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and you will hear that they both describe Jonathan as
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: very independent and in their storytelling you can hear a
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: mix of pain but also some positive memories as well.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Jonathan was an adorable, blonde haired, blue eyed child who
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: seemed a bit serious for his age. He definitely was
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: a daddy's boy and was beautiful, which in retrospect made
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: him a target back then kidnapping and trafficking weren't on
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the radar as they are now. We didn't have him
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: long three years, but none of us who were old
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: enough to remember him have ever forgotten how special he was.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: Jonathan was very special to me because not only was
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: he the closest in age, he was a brother. I
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: had three older sisters and one older brother. My older
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: brother was the second oldest and understandably not on the
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: same level as me, and had his friends. I only
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: had three years of this companionship. As I remember, Jonathan
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: had a personality that was special. He spoke very little,
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: but what he said and how he said it was
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: profound and to the point. One quote I remember is
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: u's mind your own business. He would say that to
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: certain people that whatever they were saying, he felt the
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: need to respond to them in that manner. He was
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: an independent little boy with a mind of his own.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: As we moved along in a story, we understand that
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: there was a celebration happening between two families. They were
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: having pizza at place on Nick's Pizza, and then we're
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: moving along down to the beach.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: At this point, yes, that's correct. They left Nick's Pizza
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and then they ended up at the sixteenth Avenue car ramp,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: and that's where our story continues.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: On June eleventh, nineteen sixty eight, a Tuesday, I think
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: my mom decided to celebrate either my great uncles and
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: his wife's anniversary or hers and my dad's or both,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: just not sure. It was decided to go to Nick's
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Pizza at Jacksonville Beach after work, which would have been
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: after five pm. We stayed at Nick's Pizza longer than
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: was planned, as it was dark when we left. My
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: mom had promised the boys they would go to the
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: beach after we ate, but as it was so late,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: she said we should go home. The boys started crying,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: and my dad reminded her that she had promised, so
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: she relented and gave in. We went down to the
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: beach proper, which was several blocks away, and ended up
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: at a ramp on eleventh Avenue. We parked at a
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: bar there on the beach, and my dad took the
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: boys down to the water, which was up to the ramp.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: It was high tide to let them play for a bit.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: My girlfriend and I walked into the bar, not realizing
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: that's what it was, and although we weren't asked to leave.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: We became uncomfortable with the attention we received from some
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: male patrons there and asked my mom could we go outside.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: She agreed, but told me and Becky to watch the
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: boys and send Dad in. I know she regretted that
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: decision the rest of her life. We did that, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: we positioned ourselves on the ramp, with me being further out,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: with the water past my ankles but not quite mid calf.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Becky was further up and the water was barely on
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: her feet, and the boys between us. I don't remember
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: how long we were out there, but I don't think
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: it was very long.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: I can say that as a five year old, I
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: do remember vividly most events of that day as I
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: remember it. There was a place on the beach that
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: served food and drinks on the north side of the
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: sixteenth Avenue ramp going down to the beach. We arrived
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: during daylight, and my mother and aunt sat inside, and
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: my oldest sister, her friend Jonathan, and I were allowed
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: to sit at the base of the ramp leading to
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: the beach. The building was an older building, running parallel
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: with the road and having a patio out in front
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: facing the ocean. The patio was closed in by a railing.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: It was elevated from the patio down to the beach.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: I remember as the tide came in, we were told
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: to sit at the top of the ramp and not
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: to go down to the beach. I remember the building
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: having glass facing the ocean and seeing my mother and aunt.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: They could see us as well.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: So at this point, it's late, it's dark. We left
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Nick's Pizza, and the family is down at the beach,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and there seemed to be in two separate locations. We
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: have some family member up at this bar restaurant, and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: then we have other family members who are on the ramp,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: possibly in or near the water.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: What you're going to notice here, too, is this is
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: when our story starts to deviate a little bit. We're
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: going to get into some more those details later in
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: the podcast, but just take note of I'm as you'd
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: listen to their stories.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Becky mentioned a light on the water, and I turned
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: around to look at it again. I don't remember exactly
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: how long I was turned around, but my best estimate
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: is no more than a minute. When I turned back around,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: I missed John and asked Becky where he was. She
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: looked behind her and said he was just here behind me.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: She was positive that he had gone up the ramp
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: looking for my dad and was with him. We looked around,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: couldn't find him, and alerted the parents. All heck broke loose,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: and the rest of the night was mostly a blur.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: I do remember a bunch of lifeguards showing up from
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: a meeting close by, and of course several law enforcement
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: were there.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Some time later, my brother wanted to go inside with
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: my parents, and I watched him walk to door that,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: as I remember, was a screen door, and he reached
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: up and opened the door and went in. I turned
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: around and faced the ocean again, and as I remember,
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: that was the last time he was seen. Some time
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: passed and my father came out to check on us
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: and asked us where was Jonathan, and we replied that
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: he went in to be with them. This is when
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: we all first realized that he was missing.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: This is the point in the evening where the family
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: begins to understand that they can't find Jonathan. And I think,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: as a parent, maybe several of us have had an
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: experience where for a slight moment, we lose talk of
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: our own children, whether it's in a grocery store or
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: at the park, and so we can begin to imagine
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: how chaotic this would be. And Susan talks about how
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it's just a blur and there's really nothing else from
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: her at this point. Moving forward from the night, however,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Joe is very specific about what he recollects.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: As a five year old, I saw a look in
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: his eyes at that time that was hopeless and lost.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: As a five year old, I felt my world come
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: crumbling down seeing my father with that look on his face.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: I remember the nightmare that followed like it was yesterday.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: My mother was in full panic mode, my dad taking
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: me by the hand and going around the parking lot
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: and adjacent places, hunting and hollering. Jonathan the police showing
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: up the Red Cross with the best equipment they had
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: at the time. It was total chaos. My dad put
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: me in the car and parked it at the ramp
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: with the headlights on, sitting there what seemed like hours,
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: wondering if he was going to come back, my mother
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: receiving information that he was found and safe, only to
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: find out that was not true. I remember being handed
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: off to a friend of another aunt that lived at
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: the beach and feeling totally abandoned. I was taken back
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: home the next afternoon to find out it was as
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: grim as the night before.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, now Jonathan's missing and we've got out look chaos
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: going on at the time. The next question or series
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: of questions we asked was really to get joe and
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Susan's perspective on what law enforcement did at the time,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: as well as what they've done throughout the years to
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: follow up on this case.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I was taken to the Jacksonville Beach Police Department and
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: asked to write out a statement. The original police guy
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: who interviewed me wanted to make out that it was
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: negligence and focused on how much my parents drank. My
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: dad doesn't drink, never has, but my mother and great
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: uncle did. I do remember them being taken to the
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: hospital due to hysteria. I called my boyfriend and my
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: youth pastor and they came together to get me. There
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: was a significant water search that went on for days,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: but his body was never found. There should be archived
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: newspaper records of that. I know my mother had them
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: at one time, but I haven't seen them in years.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: When the case was reopened, Joey and I went to
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the Jacksonville Beach Police Department. It's not the same building,
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think, and we were interviewed separately. I went first.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: When I brought up the written statement, they didn't know
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: anything about it. They seemed sincere about looking into my
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: brother's case with fresh eyes, and they did verify my
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: recollection of the bar and ramp by pulling old architectural records.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: The efforts I remember from my mother was endless. As
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: a five year old, I remember going to places in
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: surrounding areas, even up into Georgia, following any lead she
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: would find, going to courthouses and such to look at
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: newspaper articles that were on file for leads or pictures.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I remember going to the beach and sitting in the
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: car at common areas for hours, waiting to see someone
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: that might have kidnapped him. I remember the agencies giving
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: up on him being alive, stating he was presumed drowned.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: As we close out sharing what we learned from Susan
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and Joe, we gave them an opportunity to speak about
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: how Jonathan's disappearance has impacted them throughout the years.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: After I married and had children. Due to John's disappearance.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I was definitely paranoid about my children being snatched, and
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: consequently was overprotective and limited their activities. I think all
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: of my siblings have had a form of that paranoia
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: due to it, even if they weren't there or, like Julie,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: not old enough to remember the incident, but lived in
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: the aftermath. My children resented me being so in their
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: business and checking up on them frequently, but now that
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: they are older, they understand and sympathize. I used to
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: panic if they were five to ten minutes late getting
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: home from school or from work when they got their
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: first jobs at sixteen. My daughter has two girls, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: although she wasn't as paranoid as I was, she has
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: admitted to me that our loss of John and my
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: hypervigilance with them made her more aware and careful. My
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: daughter resides across the street from me now and is
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: single at fifty two. I still get nervous when she
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: doesn't arrive home from work at a normal time. She
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: has a long commute to work roughly ninety minutes, so
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: even though she's grown and response, I find myself fretting
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: about her safety when she's not home. It's unreasonable I
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: know that, but it's there.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: As a large family, we leaned on each other for
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: comfort and hope. We have never given up to this day.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: We hope to be reunited with Jonathan or at least
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: have closure. Life became a mess for our family. I
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: didn't understand her ways at the time. I know that
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: it has affected all of us in a detrimental way,
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: each of us differently. My father still grieves and wants
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: nothing more than closure before he is called home. He
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: will be ninety in December. Looking at pictures of him,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: he always has a look of emptiness in his eyes.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: I lost my son at nineteen to a construction accident,
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: and now I fully understand my mother's grief and demise
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: and my father's empty looking eyes in pictures.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I'm sure anyone who's listening to this this evening was
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: or this morning, I guess topin when you're listening, you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: these are some pretty impactful statements, and it's it's been
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: really interesting to hear their stories because you know, Joe
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and Susan were both there, and so even though Joe
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: was five, his recollection is pretty vivid when it comes
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to what he remembers, and you know, and we hear
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Susan's story. Now, do we hear some discrepancies in this story? Yeah,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: we absolutely hear that. And it's going to be interesting
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: to see how, you know, when we start thinking about
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the FOYA that we talked about earlier, you know how
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that how that's gonna line up, because even though one
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: of the things we've learned, you know, through doing this
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: podcast is the information we can get from the as
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: close as we can get to the event tends to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: be the single point of truth that you want to
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: focus on.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, and she mentioned something very specific in her email,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: something that I have actually been looking for for several weeks.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Is it's referred to as a snack shack or a
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: bar or a restaurant through various people's eyes, they all
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: say something different. I've really been trying to figure out
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: what what is this? What is the name of that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: place that was on the sixteenth Street boat ramp. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that the FOYA will help with that. Because
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Susan mentioned architectural records, I've been in contact with Beaches
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Library and several different organizations in that area. They've given
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: me screenshots and scans of yearbooks from nineteen sixty eight
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and nineteen sixty nine desperately trying to figure out what
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the name of this location is. And so I Susan
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: really helped out with that in her response where she
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: talked about architectural records and trying to figure out the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: name of that place. I'm hoping that that is released
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to us when we get information from the police department.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other piece of it too that I
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: think it'll help, you know, other people that have been
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: involved in the investigation. You know, we haven't really talked
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: about Paul yet. And Paul, you know, was part of
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the investigation pretty early on, is you know, well, i'd
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: say early on, but once it got picked back up,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: he was a real you know, he really spearheaded a
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: lot of additional work that was done on it. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: he even mentioned to us during the interview that you'll
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: hear coming up about the snackshack and how he was
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: unable to find it. But Susan's statement that she made
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to us made start to think, well, maybe there was
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: no snackshack. Maybe we've been searching for the wrong thing
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: this whole time.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think that is an excellent point, and thank
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you for bringing up Paul from sent Evidence Canine, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: they know that he has been a significant support to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the family. We first heard of him from Joel, and
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: now we're hearing about Paul again from Susan, and we
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: did speak to him, and so we look forward to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: talking with him and sharing that information with you all
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: next week. Two Voices, Two Memories, One Night that Never fades.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Their stories remind us of how trauma travels through generations,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: but love travels with it, and how the smallest decisions,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a promise, a glance, a screen door can echo across decades.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: For the Hagen's family, telling this story keeps Jonathan present.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It turns memory into legacy. If you have any information
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: about the disappearance of Jonathan Hagen's please contact the Jacksonville
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Beach Police Department, the National Center for Missing and Exploited
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Children at one eight hundred the Lost, or submit a
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: tip through the Charlie Project at charliproject dot org. Every
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: lead matters, no matter how small. To the Hagen's family,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: thank you for your courage in sharing these memories, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to everyone listening, thank you for remembering them with us.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: We hope you'll join us next time you've been listening
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: to Tragedy a True Crime Podcast. Our purpose is to
• 20:45
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• 20:49
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• 20:53
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• 21:02
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• 21:32
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