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The SBC Fallout · CrossPolitic Show

• This is God's world and he gets to set the rules. That's right. I see godless ideologies that have spread throughout Western civilization over the last several decades with a vengeance. I just like to directly address my white brothers and sisters out there to tell us what we are supposed to be seeing. We're just not experts in this. I believe it's also given particularly what we call white evangelicals of divine opportunity. Many of these ideologies have been smuggled into many evangelical churches and organizations through the Trojan horse of social justice. We've got an opportunity to prove we need to listen more than we talk. I was not trained in any of this. Churches are going to be better for finding subject matter experts and pulling them in. We've not been black. This understanding. We've not been black. It's so many who are moving in these circles, advocating these ideologies to tell people in the hegemony that what they must do is sit down and be quiet and listen. Let's really step up to the plate and humble ourselves the way every Christian should humble themselves and say to the de Hades and say to my brothers and sisters here, teach us. I think the gospel of the events much more rapidly if we ingratiated ourselves to the culture. So there's that in Paulson and sometimes just a tinderness like, what could possibly matter if she preached? She's got a Bible word. I heard somebody else give it in. She preached better than my preacher. A Southern Baptist convention that doesn't have a place for Beth Moore doesn't have a place for a lot of us. We need to turn the women loose with the gifts that God have but gave them to even preach to men and women. And that's exactly what Paul is struck to febber to do. And then we talk ourselves into outsmarting the Bible. And it's almost like, yeah, let's try a little bit. One of that wouldn't matter either. And then you wake up one day and like your egalitarian. We're always having the powers, the spiritual powers and principalities exert pressure on us. That's not new. So if we can take a clear passage of scripture that says, I do not permit the woman to teach her exercise authority when we're finished with it. It now says, I do permit a woman in some cases. Then there is no stopping where you can take that for that. I had a major newspaper called me in a costume with that. Yeah, can you deny the complimentary is behind much abuse? I said, well, clearly it was not motivating Harvey Weinstein. The idea is the liberal Christianity did not die. And they're here with vengeance. That critical race theory and intersectionality of simply analytical tools. I remember it being used as tool not as a, they're not true. And we're seeing all of this overt attack from the left outside of the church, but the insidious stuff inside the church frequently that people don't even recognize. That uses our guilt and our shame against us to get us to do self destructive things. You see, it's a plus life's game at this point. That's true, too. Well, I think we're being placed. We recognize the obligation and we can be played into their agenda as to what to do in order to pursue justice. That has been their core tactic for a century and a half. It's not new. It's not even new to Southern Baptist because Satan does this. He is constantly telling you. He is constantly asking you to live with regrets when the father is taken all the sins of the world. That's right. Amen. Wow. Man, I haven't watched that full trailer. Probably since it blew up originally five years ago, Knox. And now looking at it, it seems even more relevant than it was then. A lot of it's come to pass. And a lot of what was critical then is more obvious now. I mean, that's just not going to welcome everybody to cross politics. Hey, all welcome to cross politics live. Me, Knox, Pastor Toby's actually on the road. He's traveling up to Canada, me with a bunch of pastors up there doing the ministry. He's going to America. He's going to Northern Canada. Actually, I think he's going to help set the Albertians free. Come on. Come on, let's see the Alberta. Let's go. So it's good to be with you. I know these last couple of months, we've dropped a lot of synodocs. We've done a number of shows. Our schedule is changing if you haven't noticed some of the obvious. We're going to be doing live shows regularly on Tuesday. And they're going to be dropping the synodoc once to twice per month, depending on how our schedule allows. If you guys didn't catch the last synodoc on the SBC in the me two of the SBC that happened in was it 20 was it 2020, Knox to 2019 2019. Yeah. Let's give a little context here. You first of all, you got to go watch the last synodoc we just dropped. I'm called SBC and me to had a couple of different names to it. SBC me to and how the SBC got played. I think was the main title. Yeah, how the SBC got played. And it's just a 35 minute capture of summary, really summary of how liberals played the SBC and particularly how the liberals use Rachel Dinhalner and the me two movement and her client Jen to really basically strip the SBC is about $13 million changed leadership at the SBC. It affected so much. The largest denomination in the United States is the SBC and the SBC got played really bad through that whole process and also got taken for its money in the whole process. So you got to go back and watch that. You know, Gabe, I just there's a couple things I want to do. First, I want to start off some correction. But before I do, I think people really need to know the importance of strong Christian, conservative people in America are the foundation of America. If you want to take over America, one of the things you have to do is split that group. And so the SBC was essential in making sure that we can bring in liberal not only ideology, but liberal politics to America. You got to split that base. And so the liberals knew that if they were going to actually have some sort of ground in the political arena, what they had to do was destroy the SBC from its political roots. I mean, the SBC and most people probably in the SBC would never consider themselves like hardcore Christian nationalists. But then you pretty much are in every way. Like they love the Bible. They believe the Bible. They believe America is a Christian nation. They believe America is supposed to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ and obey the Bible that America's law should be biblical and that we shouldn't have abortion. We shouldn't have murder. We shouldn't have, you know, mistreatment of little ones in the womb. And so like they're the strongest. Like if you had to say, man, where is the strongest conservative base at that we can actually target in order to have some political breakthrough in the secular world. It would be the SBC. And so like it's no question to me that that was clear in the minds and the hearts of them. But before we even go there a little bit, I want to deal with some of the fallout that I think is important around the doc. Around this recent doc. Around this recent doc. There's two docs. And we're going to get into the two docs into the trailer. The trailer is the pinnacle of it all because the trailer presents the doc that never actually got made that we end up making. And the only reason we can make that doc was because of the ethics review of Guy post on earth, everything that that original trailer posted to the reason why you're watching AD Roblas sit here and have this conversation in 2019. 2019. Yes. It was I believe in July. We did it. So I was out filming it as we see in June. And then we released a trailer trailer like in July or something like that. And then so but what happened was the trailer made so much noise. It got so much drum. If you see that trailer, there was four of the six SBC president that were supposed to be in the film. Yeah. And all committed to the film and had all had pre recordings of it, right? You know, had you had you recorded it? No, they had at least in the I think they at least seen the trailer. They had not seen the film. They were just a grand. Did you pre record interviews with them? Yes. All the yes. Yes. They had already accepted a role in the documentary and they've already been recorded to be in the documentary when the trailer got released. Okay. That's a point. That is an important point. So after the trailer was released and they all stepped away. Okay. I want to come back to this. Hold on a second. I got it. Since we're in it, I'll come back to my corrections later. And so once the trailer got released, it blew up. It was. You know, first of all, Pastor Ascle did a fantastic job. He knows these people know him. He is insider. He's a he's a statesman gentleman like there's no doubt about that. And so everybody that he asked said, yes, including now, Mueller. Now all of these presidents as soon as I tried to point nox. Yeah. So so Pastor Thomas School before the trailer got released, sent it out to the presidents that were involved in the doc. I believe so. I know for sure, our Mueller guy. I know for sure, our Mueller. And he sent it to Al and Al said, thumbs up the trailer. Looks great before it went live the next day. Correct. Keep going. If I remember that correctly. And so everybody was on board. And then, you know, so part of what you do in a trailer is tease what you believe is going to be a very important point somewhere in the trailer. You tease like the film is going to this is going to be a very important point in the film. And most people wouldn't recognize how important it is. And so I'm going to tease this and let enough information go there that it creates like what are they about to say about this. And so when we were at the Southern Baptist Convention, the reason I came there to work on this film was because founders wanted to do something concerning the ideologies that they believe were leaking in inside of the Southern Baptist Convention. And they wanted to point them out to bring light to the brothers and sisters and say, let's not get played by this because we're getting played. And so they brought me into work on this film. And there was two things, well more than two, but the main things was like the social justice movement was a huge point and people didn't understand Marxism. They didn't understand social justice, what they were actually meaning what they were trying to do and what their goals and intention was even though we had one kind of conversation that they were talking about. And it's like, no, this is way more nefarious than just, oh, we care about our brothers and sisters. The goal was to take and replace people in positions and leadership to have more liberal folks in positions of authority and leadership. That was the goal. And so it was, and then it was also the SBC is starting to fall back into the, the, the past where they were so that the SBC was the only conservative denomination that has been able to defeat liberalism. So the conservative resurgence, you know, they was a 13 year plan in order to change the SBC from liberal to conservative. They won in about 93 or 95, I believe. And that was an institution of Albert Moller at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. And so since then they had been moving far, far, far, far to the right, more and more conservative, way more reformed. And and this was starting, now we were starting to see from this social justice stuff, the creeping in of not just the social justice, but women as pastors and, you know, churches going farther left that direction. So then it was like, okay, we're going to talk about social justice movement. We're going to talk about women and pastor in the pastorate stuff like that. We got there the first night. There was a SBC and sexual abuse panel that happened. And I'll never forget because the whole rule and the whole goal was, hey, pastors, you're ignorant on this. You need somebody to train you and teach you about what's really going on inside your church as it relates to the social justice movement. You need somebody to train and teach you as it relates to like, you need women voices. And you're not here women voices. And so because of that pastor, you're not capable of managing your flock well. That was overarching narrative. And everybody who was on the conservative side was willing to have that battle in that fight. Yeah. But that night on the panel with Beth Moore, Rachel Den Hollander, Russell Moore. It was JD Greer. Rachel Den Hollander was saying a lot of the same things, but she was cloaking it underneath sexual abuse. And one of the things that she kept talking about and it was repeated over and over during that Southern Baptist convention was pastors, you're not capable of handling situations like sexual abuse in your church. You don't know how bad victims have been hurt and you need to have experts come in and train you how to deal with these people. Yeah. And whenever I see someone coming after the staff of a pastor to be able to protect and keep his people, right. And say, you're not capable of doing that and hand that job to somebody else. Matter of fact, we'll take care of it for you. Call of a certain star here in his and sound. Mm hmm. I was like, wait, if you have a biblical standard on things, then you know that the pastors keep the shepherds keep the souls of their people. And so if there's anything that a pastor is particularly skilled at, it is making sure that hurt people can heal. Right. Like if there's anything that a pastor has the ability to do over any sort of other counselor out there is to restore broken sinful people back to Jesus. And I'm hearing in these conversations that, oh, yeah, that's pastors. You're not capable of handling this. Matter of fact, if you listen in the trailer, you hear what's his name? Oh, I remember his name right now. Like don't you know, I'm thinking of the pastor in Texas. They had to fly into the Oh, that's him. That's a cop out is what that is. It was, well, if you don't, you don't need to be pastoring. Like if you can't bring, that's right. Oh, to your people, like that's one of the responsibilities that you have as a pastor is to be able to, I mean, that's what the gospel does at its very core. And for pastors not to be able to do it. Anyway, so I saw that, that there. I'm like, wow, she's perfect because no one was going to be suspecting that sexual abuse would have been the way that we would unearth the SBC from its authority. Right? Like that would have been like you wouldn't have told us a social justice movement. Everybody sees it. We can fight about it. But even the people who were on the good side of the conversation, people who I agree with on the social justice stuff, you know, absolutely thought that the issue with Rachel Dinholender was a bridge too far. Yeah. And said, no, brother, you're missing it. But I wasn't making the assumption off of the sexual abuse. I was making the assumption off if everything's supposed to be done biblical, then a pastor given over his authority that he has over his sheep to somebody else, something's wrong with that. Mm-hmm. And that's what we're seeing. And so, anyway, okay, so. A little background there. Okay, that's a little better. Yeah, that's a little background. That was enough to point me to say this is important. We have to pay attention to it because something's creeping in here. Now, since this doc has come out. The reason why some of these points are important for people who are listening to an in who haven't seen by what standard and who don't remember the trailer that dropped in 2019, one of the reasons why what knocks is kind of talking about the background of what he's laying out is important is because the trailer dropped with Rachel Dinholender and Dinholender in it. And then every that crazed such a stir because Rachel was in it. All these SBC presidents Owen Strong and others had backed out of the documentary because of that trailer. The trailer changed everything. And so. When I tell you that Tom Askel was left alone, I mean that. I ended. I mean, I was strong. I had an hour and a half conversation with that dude and he won't even acknowledge the documentary anymore. There was I have a lot of respect for past to ask all after that moment because I haven't I haven't been up close to someone to see him abandoned in that way. Or people who had been in such close proximity to him. Like I can understand like if you have a disagreement with somebody and you're like, you know what I disagree with you on that. I don't think it's right. And I can voice that and still be unified to you. Like we don't even agree on everything. And I haven't been like, well, I'm a banding. It's not going to happen. And even if we have a point of contention, but this was so powerful that it made people that I thought would never bend or never break and made them break. And that's why to me, the stuff that I've seen happen like from Tom Buck, like Tom Buck, he owned it. He what a dude. Like just a G all the way. I remember when this dropped, he gave it to me very one thing I love about him. He'll give it to you really clear and straight. You don't have ever have to wonder about where he's coming from. And I always appreciate that. You know, even I think they're wrong or whatever. I always put it. Yeah. And he gave it to me straight and lit me up and said, brother, I think you made a mistake going after people who are abused. You know, he had talked about his situation with his wife and my wife couldn't understand it. We couldn't understand why you would do such a thing and just lit me up, man. And I took it and I listened and it's like, okay, yeah, and I try to explain it. And but it wasn't until maybe like two years ago or something like that. Maybe a year ago, I think he had kind of went through the bus saw himself of Den Hollenner and those guys and the SBC and and he came back and brother his, his, he reached out personally. He said, Hey, I just want you to know, sorry about that. I was wrong. I missed it. We forgive me. And I thought that was good enough. But then the brother went out public and said, Hey, I'm sorry. I publicly missed it. And I was like, whoa, he didn't have to, it just says the integrity about him. Hey, I could talk about that for a while. But also I just to say like, I think Tom Hicks could have done better. But I'm very grateful that Tom Hicks even said and he was one of the guys who left. He was born. He left Tom's board over the trailer and he came out publicly in a statement a couple weeks ago where he kind of owned. He's like, I was wrong for leaving Tom Askels board over the trailer. I thought and I thought that was honorable. You know, we have some disagreements still on that. And but I think I would like to see something like that happen for everybody because here's what I was telling to I think Tom Buck, the outcry for what happened during the trailer, talking about what was going to come if we continue down this road, which was vindicated. If I think Tom is clearly vindicated now, was so loud and created so much pressure. The by what standard documentary, I can't tell you if a day went by that pastor Askel wasn't getting a text or pressure from somebody not to do the dot. Al Moller was pressuring him not to do the dot until the very day we had to do edits on the last day for the release for it. Leave it was like it might have been December. And feel getting text messages. I mean, gutted the board. I mean, it was he was at full out war. And you know, I don't know. A lot of people probably don't even remember it, but he was under so much pressure at the time that after the Sunday after we released the trailer and I remember how solemn he was the day before the releasing the Sunday after he released the trailer is when he was in Sunday school and fell out of the chair and hit his head on the ground and was unconscious. And I don't know if he would agree with me saying this, but I'll tell you, I watched the pressure that the man was under. It was a lot of pressure and coming from and when pressure comes from the from your enemies, it doesn't come fair. It doesn't come from a place where you invited directly. It comes at all of your people around you. It comes at your friends. It comes at your wife. It comes at other companies. It comes everywhere. And I watch him deal with the first time up close to somebody pressure that was uncontrollable. Like you just it was coming from everywhere. And so I believe that what happened that pressure was a lot and it wamed on him. And I think that's I believe that's why he passed out. Yeah. And so for me, for me coming back to this full circle is kind of like when that report came out on the ethics committee and from the from the ethics company, I can't remember the name of the group right now. Oh, it's slipping my mind. I'm sorry. I'm not at mine. That's why I usually have all I know. I'm not guideposts. You don't talk about guideposts. I have to go to the one that that talked about the guidepost. The lawyer when that came out and it released all the findings and what was going on and the how many hats that Rachel Den Hollander wore. You know, how much they were able to get from the SBC. What all took place? It was like vindication for a time asco to me. Like he, right. He said it. Nobody believed them. And it's like it should be just as loud about what he had to go through and what he had to deal with it. The repentance on this should be just as loud as all the accusations of the trailer. If not more because when you're wrong, you put things back right. Yeah. And you put them back right in such a way where it says, yeah, that's it's more. It's more than what was taken. And so I was like, man, praise God. It's hard because you got so much. So many conversations that are going on. So many people are making political moves who don't want to stay with you. Some people are quiet. There were people who were in the film in the end that stepped away in the middle of the fallout because they were too afraid to deal with Den Hollander. They came back. So you wouldn't know it. And past asco just didn't hold him hold it against them. He didn't say anything about it. He just let it happen. I'm like, okay, that's honorable. How many? The urge to say I told you so. It's not there. I promise you, it's not there. Not for me because first of all, I think when you're watching God, we may operate in the moment. There's a level of humility that God gives them that you realize that either they're understanding their own simple nature. And so they're almost feeling bad for the people that are coming after them. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and I'm like, I'm not built that way. Nope. Nope. Nope. No, that's right. But I think it helped frame me so that it wasn't. If if it was about. I told you so, then we can't have revival. That's right. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, what I, here's what I want. I want people to see this moment and say, never again. This wasn't because the thing that the people who were making the plays and who were doing the maneuvering, they were malicious. There were people who were good folks who just got played that were not malicious. That's the people who I want to see what happened and say, Lord, help us to be strong in such a way that we never make those kind of mistakes again. Because when you're a Christian and you're seeking the good and you actually do have bad things that have happened or mistakes or something wrong, the tendency to for us is to give up our hands and turn it all the way over because we have to make mistakes. Right? Like that's the tendency is like, oh, yeah, you like, you know, if a husband has not protected his family well, you know, he just, he'll just turn it over. Well, you protect them. I'll give it to you and you can have all the time. Whatever. That's a great example. The government, the problem is the government isn't designed to protect your family. Right? They're not designed to do it. And so the goal was to get you not to do it. Even so that's why repentance is so important. And I think we said this in the doc, the Southern Baptist convention was closely being berated with the reality of slavery so that they can weaken them so that they can give up the keys to the kingdom, right? And it's like, or how about we repent for our sins and then we act accordingly to the office in which God has required us and not give up anything. That's right. If there were real sins there, then what we're going to do is we're going to repent for those sins. But here's what we're not going to do. We're not going to let a third party non Christian entity be in led by a woman that wants to remove Christian principles at the end of the day and give them the authority to tell us how to operate. Mm hmm. So I want to pause right here real quick, Knox, because a lot of people are asking, okay, what are you guys talking about it? For those who missed it, you can go to cross politics, YouTube page, and you can find the title, how the SPC got played. And this is a synodoc that we released about two weeks ago. And you can watch the synodoc and it kind of, kind of, just maps out from 2019, how the SPC got played and got kind of played by liberals. And we based, we based some of the analysis on actually Gary North's book. Oh gosh, what's title? Cross fingers. Yeah, cross fingers. Gary North's book where he kind of details how Presbyterians got played by liberals. And so it, Gary North does a pretty good job basically kind of mapping out in the Presbyterian world. If you guys followed the Presbyterian split, Gary North maps out, hey, this happens, then this happens. This is how institutions go left. And so we follow Gary North's pattern in analyzing the SPC and how the SPC got taken for a ride by leftists in the SPC. And so go watch the documentary. I want to, let's play a clip from it so people can see what we're talking about. What clip do you want to bring in here? And then before we run that clip, I got a couple of plugs, what I need to read. Go ahead. What what clip? Okay, you, you, you'll talk about the clip here in a minute, nox. You bring up the clip that's in your mind right now. All right, guys, our show can't, can't live without our corporate partners. Very grateful for classical conversations. Are you concerned your child's current education won't give them the skills necessary to succeed in any area of life? Consider homeschooling of classical conversations by applying the classical Christian model of education, the classical conversations, curriculum, encourages students and how to learn, how to think for themselves. So they can adapt to every challenge that life throws at them. Have you seen AI join over 50,000 families in 60, 60 countries who have chosen to educate their kids with classical conversations, visit, go visit classical conversations.com. Ford slash F. L. If you put that forward slash F. L. 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That New saying Andrews host here during the summer in July. So hope to see you guys out there. Nox what clip do you want to play to kind of bring everybody into this? Well, you forgot one. You forgot one at Gabe one one of the most important ads that you could be reading right now and you didn't you didn't you didn't read that that would be if you aren't a fight laugh fees cross-polytic club member, you need to go sign up. We are right now on the war path to create a higher level better quality, better experience version for you. We want to give you films around 25, 30 minutes long that are deep dives entertaining and engaging and also helping you to make sense of the world. There are a lot of great takes out there. People got great takes that grounds covered. We did that for over 10 years. It's lovely. I want you to find shows that have great takes. What we want to do is build foundational doctrinal pieces that you can start developing your own great takes. That's why you want to sign up become a club member across polytik.com or download the pub tv app. Give us $10 a month so we can make productions and films like the Southern Baptist Convention and how they got played. We got five more to make. So do not delay. Go sign up. I want to answer the question here from 60 seconds, 60 seconds scripture. So I'm I'm just tuning in. I've got some friends in the SBC. Is there a documentary? I can send them. Is it recent or made a few years ago? What's the name? Okay. The first place you want to start is by what standard? Like that is the one. It covers all the details. It's free on YouTube is made by founders. And that's 2019. Yeah, that was 2019 and it still is relevant today. And then the battle that's there. And then I think after that, you should watch the documentary that we just released last Tuesday. How the SBC got played. The link is inside the comments. I believe our wonderful producers are make sure that you get that. You know, I don't have a particular clip that I think you play and you can play anything. Whatever they got this. I got one. One of the let's actually start off with the by what standard in 2019. We already played that one. Knox kind of illustrated some of the challenges that were behind the scenes and some of the stress and pressure that Tom Ascle had to face with good friends. Oh, I know. Friends who jumped off his board. Friends who quit on him. Friends who are in the dock and asked to be pulled out of the documentary. And so Tom Ascle really had, I mean, the win was blown against the brother. And Knox maybe you could set up this clip a little better, but Knox had Tom sitting on a couch in his house. No, um, no, we weren't. We were actually at the SBC. So anybody who remembers the follow-up. I don't know if you're an alligator or this is house. Oh, you got the alligator? Yeah, that's the clip I want to play. Oh, I don't know which clip you're talking about then go ahead and tell me what. Okay, maybe maybe your I was thinking of different scene. Maybe I just remember Tom's house and the alligator. I know. I know what you're thinking about. No, yeah. This this clip um, was we had just, I had my taste of probably the most amazing center of the Baptist convention that I think I that exists because it was probably my first one. Well, it was my first one at the center of the Baptist convention. I watched a political maneuvering around resolution nine. And if you're a filmmaker, one of the things you're always looking for is like, what is going to be the pinnacle of my film and the turning point and where's all the excitement and energy going to be at? And I remember filming this and I couldn't have been more excited because I knew what my film was going to I knew where the pinnacle of the film was going to be. I knew it was going to start out. I knew it was going to be the energy of it with the narrative. I need to be Rachel Denholland. It was a part of it. But then this was the driving force and it was the whole situation from resolution nine. And so they were trying to fight off resolution nine, a men resolution nine, which was that we would use critical race theory as an analytical tool and adopt it that way. And so there was a huge fight. Tom Askel, Tom Buck at the time, it was a few other solid men from G3. They all got together. I believe Al Molar called and initiated the the whole setup. But I believe Tom Askel was going to speak against it anyway. But even Molar was a part of it at one point. And because I think he reviewed it to help make sure that it would go well with the the messengers. And so they're hearing about resolution nine. They're all at a table. They're writing about it. And so we're trying to make sure resolution nine doesn't get passed in 2019. Everybody's working on some sort of a mend them to it. I believe Tom Buck did speak against resolution nine. But there was this time crunch. There was this not accepting the proposal. It was just like everything blew up. And you can see that the front of the house played their hand still as to control the situation. After what was over, I didn't let pastor Askel talk to anybody. I didn't let him answer his text messages. I wanted to get just a raw reaction of how he felt the whole thing went. And from that, this is what happened when we were at a hotel, put him on the couch and just hit record. Got people texted me over the nation saying, what happened? Can I talk to you? What happened? I'll tell you what happened. What happened? We've been played. We've been played. That's raw. That's for sure. That was as a filmmaker. That said in one sense because you don't want that. But as a filmmaker, you're so giddy. You're like, oh, we got a movie. We got a movie now, people. This is going to be amazing. This is how I would have directed a film to go. I'm like, you know, we're going to need this. We're going to need that. We need some tension. We need something like. And I didn't have to work hard to make this. It was really even though this was the second idea of the film. Ultimately, those were pieces that would have been in the first. But I had to make a second film because the reason I meant to say this earlier, the reason why we were watching the 80 Robeless version was because all the pressure had come down so much that Rachel Dinholender and that narrative of the sexual abuse basically was kind of moved aside. So that it wasn't main part of the film anymore. And so that reassessed. And so part of what I had, I mean, one of the things that happened, you guys queue up the video of Rachel Dinholender and Matt Chandler. One of the things that happened at the Sun the Baptist Convention. And I don't think this narrative is known very publicly, which was during the night of the sexual abuse panel that I was talking about earlier. She came out and basically took Matt Chandler and his church to task and took him to task in such a way that Matt Chandler from what I understand was unsubbatical and had to leave sabbatical to fly in to the SBC the next morning and record this particular interview that I'm going to play you. And that interview, it was clear to me that, wait a second, you, I'll play it for you and then we'll talk about it. But it's Matt Chandler, up-apparent, parallel and against what it was that Rachel Dinholender was accusing him of. And their critical mistake was that then when they announced to the church what had happened, they did not identify the abuser. The detective asked us not to mention his name for fear that it might obstruct the investigation. They did not identify the exact type of crime that had occurred. When we call a meeting with all the parents that we knew and could find that we had a child that that camp and then had detective Hernandez come and actually be in the meeting with the parents because we were being told there's certain things you can say, certain things you can't say. And so we just didn't want to look shady at all. And so we actually let the parents ask detective Hernandez anything they wanted to ask. And they stated that the person had no access to children in the village church without informing the congregation that they had been on staff and did have access up to that point to children in the church. Like we were the ones that put on the front page of our website, told our people, put on our social media outlets, it's a former staff member of ours got help us. And the reason that that is such a critical mistake is because they instigated a police investigation that then no one in their congregation who might hold a piece of that puzzle could participate in. It had the people that can kind of look at it in retrospect and say you should have released the name. Like I would be the New York Times article would have looked very different. It would have been how we actually obstructed the investigation because we released the name. They created a situation where no one, no parents who might have children who were victimized could check with their children. So the police investigation that they started was good, but they did not create a scenario where their church could actually actively be involved in the police investigation and a real investigation could occur. We were the ones that put on the front page of our website, told our people, put on our social media outlets, it's a former staff member of ours got help us. And part of the reason that that took place is because they followed a model that was more institution protected than victim oriented. But when it comes to reporting as soon as we heard, taking our cues from the detective and the family, I'm not sure what we could have done different. Just to even talk about biblical justice and all this, Rachel Tinholder talks about institution protected versus victim oriented. How about just what does the Bible say? Why do we have this polarization between victim protected or institutional protection? It's what what a scripture teach us in these situations. That was never brought up. That was never a part of the conversation game. Like that whole night, but that the framing of how Rachel Tinholder friends, that's what framed the whole fallout. That's right. That video. And that's what in all the SBC good guys should have pushed back to that framing right then and there. This is not how we frame this issue. We do not frame this, you know, as some sort of victim protected centric problem or some sort of institution centric protection or branding issue or something. The polarization of that framing is what actually got people and I think so many pickles is because everyone kind of played their cards based off that framing. Yes, it's often what does the scripture says? It's something that we said in the doc that I thought was really important. And I've learned this now. There are sometimes ways in which you can't defend yourself and ever look right to the public eye. Right. Like, you know, there's just something like once Rachel Tinholder got on that stage and made her comments about Matt Chandler's church, even though they were according to him completely opposite of everything she was saying. Right. He forever looks bad. Like because of what she said, she was able to get pastors and manipulate pastors into buying into her form of destruction and saying if you do anything that we think is wrong, you are institution protecting because you wouldn't sign over attorney client privileges as the executive committee. You are institutional protecting. It's like, or I am protecting the people who are in and under the institution. Right. How about that? Right. Like, the institution is a thing that disciples and develops people to function and flow in a particular type of way. And the institution is so important that the liberals that are coming after it are seeking to destroy it because it makes people that they don't like. Like, that's what's going on here. So, to even have this false dichotomy of institutional protecting, I will forever and always protect the institution of the family. I will forever and always protect the institution of a pastor. Right. And the institution of a civil government, a civil magistrate. But when you say you'll protect it, what you're doing is you're just saying that this is how God built the world. You aren't talking about protection in some sort of like, Hey, if you got a bad dad or a bad governor, you aren't talking about this, this blurred protection of, of absolutely not of faults, you know, of sinful authority. No, absolutely not because of the institution that God has given. There is a certain way you have to conduct yourself in order to be able to hold those office of institution. And I'm going to hold you by those in the same way I'm going to hold people who hold the people who want to re, destroy the institution. I'm going to hold them that same standard. So if you need to be rebuked, I'm more than willing to rebuke you. But what I don't want to do is destroy the institution. I think that there is part of what's happened right now with the woke movement with the Marxist movement is that both sides somehow find agreement and wanting to destroy institutions one way or another. Yeah, right. And destroying God's design and authority and governments that he's instituted. That's right. Exactly. Right. And that's what I mean by that. Right. So look, the institution of the Southern Baptist Convention could have very well had problems like they were suggesting that they had, although that was not true. But we have ways of going about doing that that don't require us to manipulate the institution. Right. And as soon as I see manipulation of the institution to get something else, I'm saying that's nefarious. And that's what was so clear about what was going on the SBC. And so somebody asked if I was, was chocolate knocks ever a former Southern Baptist. No, I wasn't. I was never when my friends, when they, I got asked to do this dog by founders. I was never Southern Baptist. But when I joined them to make this dog, I became whatever they were. Right. And in order to be like, like, to see, to see things from their eyes. But I did something changed in me forever. The importance of the Southern Baptist to exist and how much they are a pinnacle of American society, whether you like it or not, they are essential and are to me a pillar. And if you can make that pillar, in the last conservative pillar, I think that's as far as a public is concerned, I can't think of a larger institution that still matters in the same way. When they speak, you know, you can get somebody from the PCA make a statement and they're not going to get any news about it. Right. You get the Southern Baptist Convention President making the say, making a statement and it makes public news still, right. And it's different. And so their institution that matters and that's why they're in such attack. And so, okay, I have to get these out because otherwise I'm not going to do it. There's been some criticism. I haven't seen a whole lot, which has been surprising. It's been some criticism. And the criticism of our state doc that we released a couple of the doc that we released of the Southern Baptist Convention, how they got play, how the SBC got played. Go look it up on YouTube, you can find a link in the comments. One of the criticisms were that we messed up on the fact that the Southern Baptist Convention has not sold their Nashville building. It is still for sale. It is not sold. Got it. I think the point still stands, but I'll take that, make that correction. Southern Baptist Convention building, SBC building in Nashville is up for sale has not sold, but they would like it to sell because money. Anyway, that's one of them. The other thing is, Ricardo Davis said that you messed up on Gary North that he was not an economist. He was a historian. And I'm like, I don't know about that. I think you can look up and find that that was. He'd be both. That's my thought. The other thing is, and this is on me. The 25% of y'all that make it to the end of the films, your boy doesn't know how to number the docs. It seems like every time we finish a doc and in heirs, I get a text message from Toby saying, hey, you put the wrong doc number at the end of the doc. And he put five. And it was one off. And after you have a doc that does this good, you're like, well, I'm just, I'm just gonna live with that. I'm just gonna do two fives. Yeah, but a couple of things I think are really important, though, for people who have watched the doc and might not be something Baptist or who are something Baptist, go get Gary North's book Crossfingers. It is free at GaryNorth.com for it's slash, I think free books or just Google it. It is a free PDF download. Drop that book into chat GPT or any sort of AI, hello, Liam. And have it breakdown for you each chapter, give you a summary. It is worth reading. Gary North did us a favor. We owe him for this to show us how we get played in conservative institutions by liberals. And you know what they play on? They don't play on our strengths. You know what our weakness is that we love people. That's what they play on. And they count on us loving people. And because we love people giving up the standard. And I've learned something about this. This is why the Bible talks about don't show favoritism towards the rich and do not show right favoritism towards the poor because what happens is when you care for people to the point that you change the standard, you can't see the wickedness that can come through. If you love the standard and you operate in the standard and you're not showing favoritism, you have a better chance of perspective so that you don't get caught. And everybody has to go through the same process regardless of who they are. Rich poor man, woman, ugly, pretty, don't matter. Right. Same standard to everybody. And when you don't do that, you start operating, say like, okay, hey, I understand you have an accusation against this man. I get that. I'm willing to entertain your accusation. But you need to know that this man, according to the scriptures, is innocent until otherwise proven guilty. And so you understand this. If you're caught lying, what you're wishing that would happen upon him, the judgment, it should be happening towards you as you need to restore this man's name. Like when we approach all situations like that, we are caring for the victim. And that's one of the things that I don't think we had to chance to talk about in the doc or even in this moment, there are real victims and real people who have been mistreated. And because we have, I hated this whole thing with the social justice stuff, there was, there's real racial things that we need to work out. There's real things and tensions that are there that we can work out inside of the church. But because it was used as a tool to bludgeon people and to manipulate them and to gain power, we will never get to the issues of some of those things because we can't even have honest conversation anymore. And that's the same thing around some of the sexual abuse. If there are some issues that we need to deal with, and what's amazing about the Southern Baptist Convention is that they had actually been dealing with a lot of them. When you go and you look at those cases, I believe all but like three or seven or something like that, very small number had either been dealt with of those 200 have been already in court or were being taken to court. Those guys had been removed from their church. Some people, I think there was like three that they were still three or four they were still dealing with. And it's like, wow, you know, it is not good that the Southern Baptist Convention over 20 years had 200 cases. That is not good. That's bad. Yet the noise being made about the Southern Baptist Convention is far greater than any noise being made about public schools and education. And they're at a rate that's 20 times as bad as anything in the SBC. Matter of fact, if they had the record of the SBC, we would say what a victor. And most of the people that are in the SBC are sending their kids to these government schools that are far, far worse than anything that's happening at the SBC. And the SBC is not trying to hide it. They're not trying to cover up what they're trying to do is deal with sin where it is. And it was used as a form of manipulation to say, you got to send in your life. It's like, yes, and I'm working to get rid of all of it. Like, and praise God for that. I would be more concerned if the SBC was like, we don't give any cares. But we heard about from Rod Martin. If it was true that this guy had did this thing to reach, he would have been like, hey, this dude. Yeah. Right. But be cautious of people who don't want to wait for a court case who don't want to wait for the principles for the process to go through, right? Like do process people who don't want to wait for that. Be lary of them. Because they are looking to maneuver and manipulate something out of the system that is going to destroy what it does to protect people. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Nox. Guys, for everyone who's tuning in, you can go. We were talking about our documentary, our Center doc. We just dropped folks. We're trying to do that five more of these synodox on various topics. And as you join the club support, our work and what we're doing, we can do these documentaries. The documentary we just released about the Southern Baptist Convention. You can go to our YouTube page and watch that, find that. And it's gone far and wide. I mean, all a lot of the leaders have tuned into it. A lot of the Southern Baptist presidents, a lot of the Southern Baptist pastors who are involved in this. I think there's a lot of encouragement because I think a lot of the leaders were even thinking that they were crazy for not getting on board with Rachel Denhall and her narrative. So I think it was kind of refreshing for a lot of the leaders who were not on the Denhall and her narrative and everything. So go there, check it out. You can download our app, FightLab Feast or Cross-Politik in your app store. You can download it. You can get a lot of this content, especially club members behind the firewall. What's going on there too? And everything. So we really thank you guys for tuning in, Nox. You're going to close us out here, buddy. I also want to say the next documentary we're going to be doing, I believe is on gambling. Why you're going to hail if you, no, I'm just joking. But it really is on gambling. Pasitobi, we were talking about this and he feels like gambling is going to be one of those things that is going to be a huge problem for us in the future because ultimately, it doesn't lead to true productive people. And right now, it's huge. I was just looking at something on Facebook and you can literally make bets on snow. You can make bets on parking lots. You can make bets on weather. Like I just couldn't, everything is just gambling. It's a betting. And so we're going to tack more. Not just sports. No, not just sports. It's everything. Yeah, you can gamble on anything. So if you're single, get married, if you married, have you some kids and if you have kids, go baptize them until next time. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Go fight, laugh and feast. This is Cross-Politik.