Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 879: Arizona Jaguars, CWD Elk, and a New One-Buck Limit for Michigan Hunters

Transcript

Ep. 879: Arizona Jaguars, CWD Elk, and a New One-Buck Limit for Michigan Hunters · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Cal's back and on this episode, we need you to
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: help us solve a mystery. Cal Who's back, talks corner
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: crossing updates another jaguar is hanging in Arizona, or as
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Spencer Newhart says, Jaguar Michigan makes some major buck hunting
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: rule changes, and Giannis is here to.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Tell you all about it.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Seth reports on the end of the integrity of fishing,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: but that's probably not how he looks at it. My
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: wife took a mouse home, which still surprises me. South
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Dakota sets an unprecedented elk hunting management plan and more.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: But first our news. Here's the biggest thing.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Periodically on the news show, we're gonna start doing this
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: is quick, but periodically on the news show, We're gonna
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: start doing these little we need these, we need audience help.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We are doing finally, we are in the mid We're
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: in the process of working on an extended series about
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the mystery of who killed the world record white tailed buck.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Was it Milo Hanson who recently passed away, or was
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: it Mitch Rompola And the main thing is is the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Rompola buck legit. We're doing a whole series on it.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Jordan Sillers, who you know in Love and Blood Trails,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: is running this project with my assistance.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: We're cranking on it. First. Here's the first call for
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: help that we need.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: If you, if you listener, if you someone in your network, whatever,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: There's two people we're looking for right now. If you
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: know about a Texas man who in the late nineteen
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: nineties was negotiating the purchase of the Rompola buck and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: backed out of that purchase, can you send us a
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: note again, a Texas man who was negotiating the purchase
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: of the Rompola buck in the late nineteen nineties and
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: ultimately decided to back out of that purchase, please reach
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: out to us.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: How do people supposed to reach out? Where they Where
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: should they send the note?
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: What's the meatiam min Argist podcast, the meet Eater podcast
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: at the meeater dot com, The meat Eater podcast at
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: themeeater dot com. Put Rompola ro O m p O
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: l A in the subject line. Second thing, if you
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: or anyone you know worked for an outfit called the
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Arkansas County Seed Company in the late nineteen nineties or
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: early two thousands, please reach out to us again. Anyone
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: who worked at Familiar with knows someone who worked at
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a place called the Arkansas County Seed Company in the
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: late nineteen nineties or early two thousands, please reach out
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: to us.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Did you ever watch Unsolved Mysteries?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Steve No, I know about it. My agent used to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: produce segments. He used to reenactments.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Hosted by Robert Stack. There'd always be a great moment,
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: sometimes like one in five episodes. At the end of
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: the end of the episode, they'd have an update, and
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: you get a little rush watching that because they've just
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: like potentially cracked the case. That's how this feels. That
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: you're you're like casting a wide net and sure, we're
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: gonna have an update come next episode.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I hope, So, I hope so. Uh yeah.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: My agent, Mark Jerrold, my literary agent. He's been my
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: agent for over twenty years. He used to did you
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: say America's Most Wanted?
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: No Unsolved Mystery?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Sorry, he used to produce the reenactments for America's Most Wanted,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: like back a million years ago, the weirdest job in
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: the world. Yeah, like when it gets all like trippy,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you know, and there's like a shooting in a hotel
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: or something that was his job.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: It'd be fun.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Oh here, here's the deal. It sounds that weird to me.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Sounds like no, yeah, like not weird, but like yeah, yeah, like.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: One of those things they don't tell you about high
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: school at career day. It's like a not a job
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: that comes up. Yeah, Steve, get closer to the mic.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: My wife, Oh my god, look at this. My wife
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: was hiking the m hill in town and she sees laying.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Look at this, she sees.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Listen to him, laying in the trail, laying.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: In the middle of the trail on a rock.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: A brand new born mouse that doesn't even have his
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: eyes open yet.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Look at that picture. Huh, it's eyes weren't even open.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: Are they born with no hair?
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: I thought they're born hairless.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Well, he's not brand new there, but like, what the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: hell is he doing out in the middle of the trail.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just laying there, eyes closed. Do you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: know what kind of mouse it is?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Jimmy thinks that he thinks it's a deer mouse or something.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Look at listen to listen. So it's eyes weren't even
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: open yet, and I'm thinking, there's no way they're.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Going to keep that thing alive. But my boy starts,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: where's that little deal?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: He starts feeding it even though its eyes are closed.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: He's feeding it with this.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Here for me.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: He's feeding it branch dressed puppy puppy milk replacement.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: It's yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 7: Were you guys all like, thank god, we don't live
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: on a cruise ship.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Well, that's one of the issues that came up was
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: all that anti virus ship. So I had to keep
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: telling my wife like, he's probably gonna catch something from us, We're.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Gonna catch something from him.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: And then uh, then our dog got sick, and then
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: she thought the mouse was killing the dog.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that doesn't seem to be it.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: What's the long term plan with this?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Watch it? See if he's hungry right now.
• 5:53
  Speaker 7: Musky baites.
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: Look at that. He knows what's up.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, it's great. This little mouse.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Squeaking. It sounds like the A frame.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: You gotta watch this. This is the weird I'm hoping
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I can trigger the weirdest part of this. Get a
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: good loading there, Okay, watch this is the weirdest weird. Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: he doesn't know how to swallow real good watch, so
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: he has to do this little thing where you think
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: he's having a seizure.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Watches. You might be getting too old for it. Now,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: no second, I see it coming your hand. It lasts
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: ten seconds when he has a seizure.
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: Look at its please, he's.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Not there anyway, we can move on. But the surprising
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: part about this is, you guys know Katie.
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: That's pretty cute.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Katie is the last woman on the planet. It's going
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: to bring a mouse home?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Obviously not well no, but you would.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Think, right, it's not she's gonna step on but she's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: she's not gonna like squish ship, but she's not gonna
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: bring it home.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I want him to do his seizure.
• 7:06
  Speaker 8: It seems to me that she's more frequently to get
• 7:09
  Speaker 8: weird stuff out of the house.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is paybag.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: See when he gets mad at he's when he's done,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: he's done, he makes all kinds of noise.
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: Let's he dragging around on his belly there then dried up.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: He just took a growler.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, I don't wash up because I don't want the hantavirus.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And then you guys can keep talking about the news.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Now that's interesting, NOI isn't it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 9: You guys haven't come up with a plan for that
• 7:41
  Speaker 9: mouse his future.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yet how long do they live? Not gonna get rid
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: of them?
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: That's what I was asked, let it go that they
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: let it go out in the yard, and I don't.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: The kids aren't interested in that yet. They were like, no,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: is there a name yet? It's Mabel, but Yanni's daughter.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: But with a E meeble the mouse Google search.
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: How long randall you should go into your captivity.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just don't think people are interested
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: in my chickens. I am.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: I think we think, well, give us the quick version.
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: We are Steve's washing up.
• 8:23
  Speaker 9: I just I feel like, yeah, okay, well just three
• 8:28
  Speaker 9: pet mouse.
• 8:29
  Speaker 8: We lost another chicken to birds of prey and got
• 8:32
  Speaker 8: home from the Great State of Florida on Monday, and
• 8:37
  Speaker 8: I thought, man, there's a lot of big chickens there
• 8:41
  Speaker 8: that the chickens have all grown and turned dark. Instead,
• 8:45
  Speaker 8: it was twelve vultures they were killing or they were
• 8:48
  Speaker 8: consuming one of our chickens.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: When you pulled up after being gone, Yeah, twelve vultures
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: were there.
• 8:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah, And then they came back. I chased them off,
• 8:56
  Speaker 8: and then they came back about an hour later.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So I've been looking at into.
• 9:00
  Speaker 9: Uh yeah, circle in your house.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've been back three times now since then.
• 9:06
  Speaker 7: Are you gonna apply for a US Fishing Wildlife permit
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: to destroy vultures?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Did you? Oh? Did you read ahead? No, you don't
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: even have that in front of you. I've looked into it. Yeah,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I've looked into it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 8: Depredation, uh, depredation permits, because I don't really know what
• 9:20
  Speaker 8: else to do.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Do you have a netting over the top of your chickens.
• 9:26
  Speaker 8: Well, now we have, we have fishing lines strung up.
• 9:29
  Speaker 8: We've got reflective stuff strung up. We're doing all we can.
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: Lethal measures because they're covered, they're covered under the especially
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: if it's hitting your your livestock.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: Next episode, we did yeah, poorly, poorly.
• 9:48
  Speaker 8: We just got through the chicken segment. It went about
• 9:50
  Speaker 8: expect Yeah. I didn't come into the right attitude.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Though he didn't. He didn't bring any energy. I didn't.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I would have brought a dead chicken down here and
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: like laying it out.
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: The fun thing to me. Yeah, And it's a delicate
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: conversation around the Williams ranch Williams Chicken ranches that they're
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: not at the point of chicken farming yet to where
• 10:13
  Speaker 7: a dead chicken is means absolutely not just sweep it up.
• 10:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I'm there, get there.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I missed it, Like, I'll watch later, but like I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: don't one to ten, Like, is he just maybe not
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: cut out for that kind of segment.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: No, I just think the chicken.
• 10:28
  Speaker 8: I just think that our audience the chicken, the chicken stuff.
• 10:32
  Speaker 8: I just think they're they're tired of it. I think
• 10:34
  Speaker 8: they got the.
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Well, it was the buzzards, not the chicken.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: You'd have a vote, like a vote where people vote
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: on the mouse segment or the chicken segment was better.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I still have that.
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: I still have that interest meter up in my office,
• 10:46
  Speaker 7: Steve that that guy made.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: The mouse to bring that down sometimes, Yeah, we can
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: do it next week.
• 10:50
  Speaker 7: I think people need to vote on what they would
• 10:52
  Speaker 7: think of Randall. If he were to get a US
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: Fish and Wildlife Depredation permit, nuisance permit and remove of
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: twelve vultures.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: That's to saver that one's going to care about vultures.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: That's not bad optics. Now, if he was gonna wack
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: some bald eagles.
• 11:11
  Speaker 8: And let me be clear, I'm not this is not
• 11:13
  Speaker 8: a plan I'm making I've only done the preliminary research,
• 11:16
  Speaker 8: but it's three now, three chickens now by the buzzards.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: If I came upon that scene, I wouldn't automatically assume
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: that the vultures killed the chickens.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It was like a stray cat.
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: It seems like they're cleaning up.
• 11:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's my initial assessment. There's been some there's
• 11:33
  Speaker 8: been some very hasty internet research that says they do
• 11:38
  Speaker 8: do that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: When you're on there, When you're on the internet, there
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: can you find out what kind of mouse that is?
• 11:43
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I actually have a better I have
• 11:46
  Speaker 8: a better story than the chicken vultures. It's the time
• 11:48
  Speaker 8: Sydney called me to say there's a mouse in the house,
• 11:50
  Speaker 8: and I said, I thought I killed them all. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 8: then I go back and there's a little bald baby mouse.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Did you raise it up? Nopea chickens. But I wondered how.
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: I wondered how it got on the floor of the
• 12:01
  Speaker 8: closet because he couldn't walk.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And so then I started going through all the stuff
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: above in the closet.
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: I realized there's a travel pillow up on the top floor.
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: Up on the top shelf of the closet that had
• 12:12
  Speaker 8: been chewed up and hollowed out, and then I started
• 12:14
  Speaker 8: going through all the pockets of the shirts and coats
• 12:17
  Speaker 8: below it found ten of those suckers.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know you lived in Philip and Squalor.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, was this.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: The best efforts? Yeah, this was in Missoula.
• 12:28
  Speaker 8: So then I had ten ten little baby I think
• 12:31
  Speaker 8: my understanding is that i'd probably trapped their parents the
• 12:34
  Speaker 8: day before, and then they went out in search of
• 12:37
  Speaker 8: a guardian like Steve's family.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: That could have been why he's in that trail. Anyhow, God,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: my stories are that they do you want to start up?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Phil So we're out of time, all right?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Uh so coming up here Monday. There's there's no interview show.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: There's no interview episode dropping on Monday on the Meat
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Eater podcast feed, which is Memorial Day. We had a
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: we had an awesome guest booked. They had a health thing.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: They're rebooked. Don't worry, they're fine, But there's no episode
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: on Monday.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: It's gonna be good. Can we give like a little
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: teaser about what's gonna be.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: A person that studies the old factory capabilities of animals
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and humans. And one thing we're gonna talk about is
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: this idea that people and I say it too, that
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: humans have a bad sense of smell. One of the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: things is that's not true. There's some things we can smell.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: There's some things we can smell very acutely, but we
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: just don't put any value on them anymore.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Sulfur, Like if you take a grizzly bear on rotten meat.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And whatever you get into like parts per whatever. A
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: human on sulfur is unbelievable. We just don't respect it. Anyways,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And a lot of her research is around squirrels, interesting
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: old factory capabilities of squirrels. She's fine, she's them can
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: can be good for you should already rescheduled?
• 14:02
  Speaker 8: Could she potentially speak to the great dry land tracking
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: versus snow track?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: You know what, why don't you come down?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: You can sit into Yanni's sitting in because Yanni's gonna
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: ask her.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: I've already sent her twenty oh questions like that and similar.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So anyways, on Monday, what will happen instead on Monday
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: is we're gonna fill that slot with something we were
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: already doing anyways, which is Yannie's twelve and twenty six
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Companion Podcast episode Answering your questions about his Manitoba caribou hunt.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: What could people expect to seeing that video?
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Yanni, Uh, they can expect to see a grand adventure
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: to the North country of Manitoba where some mong Yang
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: and I went and did another hunt with our buddy
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: now Craig McCarthy North Mountain Adventures, who I Bear hunted
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: with the previous spring, and he was looking into possibly
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: expanding his operation into the North country for some caribou,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: and he kind of needed a group to go and
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: then just do a trial run. And I was like, Oh,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: that could be us. That sounds like a good time.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: I like going on hunts like that where it's like
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: it's not like he's been there for ten years and
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: you know exactly what you're gonna expect. So yeah, samong
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: and I went when Max Barda and Eli Harris filmed it,
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: and we had a great time. You know what we did.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: We did the thing that you often don't like. We
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: brought two weapons.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Playing it on taba. HOWD disapprove of that?
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: But I think you would approve it. Make your bed
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and lie in it, That's what I say.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: But I think you would approve because we didn't do
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: the thing where you go up there and you're like,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna hunt with my boat and then when I
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: can't get it over my bow, I'm gonna pick up
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: my rifle and shoot one. We instead went out first
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: with rifles and said we're gonna knock down a couple
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: of a couple of boo, get our meat hanging, then
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: we're gonna go have some fun bow hunting. That makes
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: no difference, doesn't matter, I think. But that doesn't That
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: doesn't change.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: It's not like a deal.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: It's not like a well, it's not I got to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: make a law about it.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: It just always strikes me as odd. It always strikes
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: me as odd. Always. Yeah, if you can kill, who
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: approach makes sense? Who cares what I think about it?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: This just always strikes me as odd.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: I just thought that this would have changed it, because
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: I felt like your complaint in the past was that
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: people act like they're gonna be serious about bowl hunting
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: and then they give up and they switch to the rifle.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I just don't do like years ago.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Remember you were there, Remember we had on, Remember we
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: had on we interviewed bo Jackson.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, bo Jackson is very interested in.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: He's very interested, like getting a deer with a pistol,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: getting a deer with this, getting a deer with that,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, like very interested in the weapon
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: of choice.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: I'm tracking.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: He's very method of taking. Like if I go spear fishing,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I don't be like, well, I'm gonna bring a homemade one.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring of this one. I'm gonna bring of
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: that one, you know what I mean, I just like
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: bring the appropriate spear guy. Yes, I'm not like a
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: mixing up method of.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: Take down instead of using rod and reel out of
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: a boat, which you could just as probably well catch
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: all those fish.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: That you're shooting.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: No, you can't ask Seth. Seth will tell you they're
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: always hitting on steel.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Seth. I'll tell you, Seth, I don't want to go ahead.
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: You're doing the whole show to prove or disprove this theory.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Actually, so we are, Well, Yeah, you can pull up
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: to an oil rig, you can drop all the baits
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: and throw all the jigs and do everything you want
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: and nothing right. You think that there's nothing there. You
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: dive underwater and it's carpeted and fish It's.
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: Like, that's true, heart, that's true.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Carpeted and fish even with some live bait.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: I don't know if we tried live bait.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, carpeted and I want to keep going on
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the news show though anyways, doesn't think tell people about
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the video real quick because we got them.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: So Simong and I went hunting with Craig and Uh
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: I had a lot of luck. Smong did a I
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: can't believe we've never done this in all the years
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: of film and meat eater. He did a h he
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: did tripe cariboo stomach, which is way cool, something we
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: had never covered off on.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And did he call it anything weird? Nope, he called
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: it monks dow.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Yang was making me some of that, and
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: he called it poop soup like you got a brand, Yeah,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you rebrand poop soup dah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: He did say though, that in tougher times they would
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: eat the stomach contents with the you know, with soup
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: as as opposed to cleaning it all off and just
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: eating the tripe. But we weren't in a position where
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: we needed to do that. But surprisingly, actually it wasn't surprising.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: I mean enough tripe to know that it's really doesn't
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: even have a flavor. It's more of just the texture
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: and it's like a filler like I would imagine.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: There's probably not that many. I don't know. There's probably
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: some calories and the stuff that I don't like. I
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: don't like lung brain and I don't like stomach.
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: Oh, man, go get a tripe taco where it's fried
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: crispy and then it's guey on the inside.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, maybe loung brain and lung brain and gut.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not my scene. Well, it was a great adventure.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: You can see it now on the meters.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's like Yanni hunts Cariboos.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yanny catches a Caribou's first archery cariboo.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: There you go, Oh, there you go.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: You know how, we're always trying different thumbnails with sometimes
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: different titles, So I don't actually know if it was
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: a title. But if you shoot search Yannis meat Eater Caribo.
• 19:51
  Speaker 8: I'm sure if you search Gianni's apostrophe first Archery Cariboo,
• 19:55
  Speaker 8: you'll definitely get meat Eaters twelve and twenty six.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll you'll be right there.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: But yeah, if you have any questions after you watch
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: the episode, that you'd like me to answer, put them
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: in the comments, and uh, Karinn and Corey and myself,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: we're going to go through there and curate the best
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: questions and then I'm going to answer them on the podcast.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: It's going to come out on the Memorial Day.
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: All right, Cal'll take it away, corner cross Where do
• 20:23
  Speaker 7: you want me to start on this thing?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Just like what Let's go back to the beginning. Let's
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: not go back to Adam and Eve. Yeah, but.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Uh, let's take it from how it was.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Good law? Where was it declared corner crossing. Let's not
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: do the whole checkerboard explanation, good law, Federal Court, Supreme Court,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and what's next.
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: Again, The main thing is is folks who've been tracking
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: this Wyoming since an sits in the Tenth Circuit Wyoming
• 21:04
  Speaker 7: over the course of three years, went through a corner
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: crossing case that that made it up through the Court
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: of Appeals and then was reviewed by the Supreme Court
• 21:16
  Speaker 7: of the United States and ultimately determined that the lower
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: court's rulings were were good. And that's where the Tenth
• 21:25
  Speaker 7: Circuit sits. Me Eater was a big part of that
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: because we did a bunch of fundraising through our Land
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: Access Initiative for that corner Crossing case, raised support for
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: for the funds for that that legal fight Montana. Since
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: it sits in the ninth circuit.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Ever since, can you refresh me a little bit like
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: tenth is New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming. Yeah, and ninths must
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: be US Idaho, Washington is how it goes. Yeah, someone
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: grabbed that way Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: is what that would be? Tenth Okay, and hit me
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: with ninth Randall's on it Internet.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It seems like a really easy and I know he's
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: never gonna which.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, and Arizona, some big
• 22:27
  Speaker 8: heavy hitters in there.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And the Northern Mariana Islands.
• 22:33
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and we get a lot of mail from Guam. Yeah,
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: so we we have there through our Armed Forces initiative,
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: We actually have a bunch of b H A.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: R Is on Guam.
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: Okay, they they just kind of live in one particular
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: spot and have access to a lot of fun stuff. Anyway,
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: within the ninth circuit, So that tenth circuit case would
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: be the case that gets referenced if there was a
• 23:04
  Speaker 7: federal case in the Ninth Circuit, it is persuasive, but
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: it is not technically the law in the ninth. But
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: it would be that thing where it'd be like, boy,
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: it went all the way through here.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: So you know what corner crossing was going through the
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: tenth And then the thing people would reference was the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Unlawful Enclosures Act. If it went through the ninth, you
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: would sort of throw that out and reference yes, you
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: would start referencing the latest iteration, which was the corner
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: crossing question. Yes, so people would be like, well, the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: precedent or whatever or the guideline is really fresh from tenth.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: And the thing to remember too, there's their state and
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: federal law. Unlawful Enclosures Act is federal. It was a
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: law and you know, passed through Congress, signed by the
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: President I think four years before Montana ever became a state.
• 24:07
  Speaker 7: So there's no question as to what came first. But
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: there is no federal case in Montana. And how it
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: became a federal case in Wyoming. Most people are like
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: just because like didn't necessarily have to, but it was
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: interesting enough at the time that a federal judge decided
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: to pick up that case. So, and it's not it's
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: odd that you can't. There's avenues to make an appeal
• 24:41
  Speaker 7: to a federal court, but it's not just something that
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: that is is. You can't just pick and choose randomly.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: So where whereas it in the tenth in Wyoming? What
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: what the incident that led to corner crossing being clarified
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: legal is that there was some guys that corner crossed.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: They were cited for corner crossing and they were acquitted.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: The landowner appealed, they won, and that was the inciting incident.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Was a specific corner crossing mechanism.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: Yep, and.
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: A lot of similarities to right. The state of Wyoming
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: had said, this is not something that we're going to
• 25:30
  Speaker 7: prosecute on both your game wardens. Basically your law enforcement
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: agencies were already at the point of like, this isn't
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: something that we we do unless there is actual trespass,
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: which means like causing damage, spending time on private ground.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And if this had if just a little civics lesson here,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I think I'm clear on this. The landowner that was
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: trying to keep it illegal, to make it illegal corner
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: cross tried to take his case to the Supreme Court. Yes,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court declined to hear it. Yeah, so that
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: ends that, That ends that legal fight.
• 26:10
  Speaker 7: It does for there.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: But had the Supreme Court taken had the Supreme Court
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: taken it and again declared it's legal, would that have
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: then been Would that have then been for all districts?
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: That would have been like the precedent setting case.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: So that would have all of a sudden made it
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: that it's just like across the West where applicable it's legal.
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know it's our right. We can still
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: fight these things. But an attorney is going to be like, hey,
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: here's the deck that's stacked against you, Like I'll take
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: your money, but.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Like they declined to hear it, right yeah, yep.
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: So back here in the Ninth Circuit, the state of
• 26:56
  Speaker 7: Montana has this long history of paying attention to corner crossing,
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: not paying attention to corner crossing, internal memos saying we
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: are gonna we are not going to issue citations, will
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: defer to the county attorney's office. Once the Tenth Circuit
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: Court decision was made, then we started to see things
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: change here in the state of Montana. Where they were
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: kind of beefing up their language. The state was beefing
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: up the language Montana Fish, Wildlife and parks is you know,
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: they don't get to create laws and rules and regulations,
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: they just enforce them, and so they're they're the mouthpiece
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: for this, right And eventually they essentially created a rule
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: by saying wardens are going to cite for corner crossing,
• 28:04
  Speaker 7: and at that point Montana bha and eventually myself had
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: had multiple conversations with the states.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I pause you for a second, yes, because there's the
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: thing that just now is confusing to me.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it never confused me before.
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Why is corner crossing a fishing game? Like?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Why is it a fishing game issue? If it's a
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: state wildlife agency and corner crossing can be federal or
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: state and you could feasibly corner cross to go do anything.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, you could corner cross to go.
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: Camp, hike and bike, take a bathroom, cutwood or whatever.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Why is it their problem?
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: Because this is largely just focused on on hunting, right,
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: It's like vast Bureau of Land Management land out there
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: typically yeah, a lot of state land too, because it's.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Just who's doing it like who's likely to do it.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: It's not a dog walking it's not regarded to a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: dog walking issue.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 29:07
  Speaker 6: I think there's also an aspect of like taking game
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: off of sure public game of you know what I mean?
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I get why, Like I get why, but I just well, well, the.
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: I mean, the real I think the real way to
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: break it down, right is because in our state trustpass
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: laws you have civil and criminal and within that you
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: have hunting without landowner permission. Okay, right, and that is
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: something that game wardens there there, there, your your people.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: That makes sense because it's not the public end of it.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: You're right, it's not the BLM end of it. No,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: it's the the dude who's land your shoulders are passing over?
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: And then and then you get into all the things
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: that we heard in Wyoming case, which is like how
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: do we define airspace? And and is this if it
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: is trespassed, what are the damages? And how do we
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: how do we define and and value the damages to
• 30:19
  Speaker 7: private airspace? And it and a lot of this is
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: just like totally academic. It's like having a really fun
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: physics teacher, right, It's like, well, how many ants stretch
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: around the circumference of the world right versus just like
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: the practical nature of like are there damages? Is this
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: something that the whole world needs to be involved in?
• 30:49
  Speaker 7: How how do we extrapolate this out throughout time? All
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: those all those fun things. So Montana BHA had had
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: many many conversations with with the state on just simply saying,
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: go back to the previous memo. There is no law
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: in the state of Montana that regards corner crossing. Go
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: back to this legal gray area. And for those who wish,
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: they can take their chances on being referred to a
• 31:25
  Speaker 7: county attorney. But the reality is like no county attorneys
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: want to take this case. And you know, I can
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: tell you right now, like I've never corner crossed. I
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: know lots of people who do. This is not a
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: new thing. It certainly gets headlines, but it's been going
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: on forever. Years ago, when we were like researching places
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: to hunt within the state of Montana to like helicopter
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: into because they were they were so landlocked. Inevitably, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: would talk to somebody and be like, well, you're not
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: gonna be the only person in there. People corner cross
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: in there all the time. It's just like something that
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: is done. And then we started hearing this from Fish,
• 32:16
  Speaker 7: Wildlife and Parks. You know, I just asked directly, I said, so, why,
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: in our opinion there's an escalation in the language around
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: corner crossing. Can you tell me why that is without.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: A foundational change and that's quite the opposite.
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: And they said yes, it's because they said, you're right,
• 32:37
  Speaker 7: we are using stronger language around corner crossing, and it's
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: because we've received more calls on trust passing, not at
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: the corner, to which I responded, well, that's great, that's
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: trustpassing and we have lots of laws for that. Yes,
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: So that that was just like an interesting bit of conversation.
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: But then yeah, we decided to file a suit against
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, which again is like the
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: mouthpiece for this. And in that suit we say, hey,
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: you guys stepped over the line. You guys created a
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: rule without going through the proper public process that we
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: have here, so that's illegal. And then we would like
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: the judge to define corner crossing in the state of Montana.
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: We're asking for a declaratory judgment, so that's no jury,
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: that's just the judge gets to decide. It's a very
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: relatively quick legal avenue to getting a decision on something,
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: not a first choice scenario at all. A lot of
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: time there's risk involved with taking something to court because
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: you may get a favorable decision that isn't exactly what
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: you wanted either. But we do have a legislative session
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: coming up here in the state of Montana, and that
• 34:16
  Speaker 7: would be another way to define lawful access to publicly
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: managed the ground.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Do you see is there a world where it would
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: be beneficial to have a person.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Who is cited.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And do the same thing that happened in Wyoming, like
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: if you knew a guy. Let's say you knew a guy.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: Well, there's no guarantee it's gonna be picked up by
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: a federal court. And we know the federal argument works great,
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: and we don't you know, it is down to interpretation. Yeah,
• 34:59
  Speaker 7: And the court cases that exist here in Montana are
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: similar but different, you know, and some of them are
• 35:09
  Speaker 7: pretty fun, like guys shooting ducks over other people's property.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: What can choose?
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: You know, stuff that is very much in the hunter's wheelhouse,
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: and it's it is a good reading. And so I
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: would say, no, I don't want people to go out
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: and get caught and cited and then and then say
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: please please, let's go to court over this. You know,
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: the better pathway was one to have the state to
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: find this and two would go through the proper legislative
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: route and and and get this buy in right. So
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: there's a lot of actors at play here represent different groups,
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: you know. I'll tell you Like when we made the
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: announcement of incoming CEO to to Baha, I had a
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: lot of people in the agriculture community, you know, just
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: throughout like my friend and family network reach out and
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: be like, Okay, how are you going to screw us?
• 36:19
  Speaker 7: And how are you going to help us. It's really
• 36:22
  Speaker 7: the whole.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Conversation the corner crossing thing.
• 36:26
  Speaker 7: No, interestingly enough, when I talk about this, almost almost
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: every single person that I talked to, and these are
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: like old Montana families, they said, now, if you could
• 36:43
  Speaker 7: tell me that corner crossing would move the elk off
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: of my absentee landowner neighbors property so they keep moving
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: around instead of just coming onto my place at night,
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: I'd be all for corner crossing.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Well, this guy, I got it right.
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: But the next door neighbor who is completely absentee, doesn't
• 37:08
  Speaker 7: do anything but show up for a couple of days
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: during elk season. That's who I want help with.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Got it? When are we going to know more? How
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: long will it be?
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: So the.
• 37:24
  Speaker 7: We filed a couple of weeks ago, then you have
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: to serve, to my knowledge, it has been served. And
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: then the state will have forty two days from from
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: when they received the paperwork to uh make some sort
• 37:41
  Speaker 7: of an action.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Got it?
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: So more than more than likely what they will do
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: is ask for the case to just be dismissed. Say it, well,
• 37:49
  Speaker 7: it doesn't meet no, no, no, this was just a memo.
• 37:53
  Speaker 7: We didn't create a rule or a law, and as
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: for asked for the case to be dismissed.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: In the mean time, if you or your friends are
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: somehow taking a more casual attitude to trespassing because of
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: your understanding that corner crossing is legal, and you just
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: now feel like you're just allowed to go where you want,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: you're not only hurting you're hurting yourself, You're hurting hunters
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: in general.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: And it sounds to me like you're also hurting this process.
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely, And the Lieutenant Governor gave a statement last
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: week about corner crossing and essentially sort of just declared
• 38:36
  Speaker 8: it illegal.
• 38:38
  Speaker 7: And I don't I don't think the Lieutenant governor quite
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: did that. She made her opinion, benod right, then Representative
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: Paul Fielder.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, thanks for telling us what the law is.
• 38:50
  Speaker 7: Yes, he is the one who Then.
• 38:52
  Speaker 8: But someone at the someone at the committee meeting said,
• 38:56
  Speaker 8: you know, if this is illegal and has always been illegal,
• 38:59
  Speaker 8: can you get us examples of people who have been
• 39:02
  Speaker 8: cited for corner crossing? And the only she said, well,
• 39:05
  Speaker 8: there is this corner crossing case, but it turned out
• 39:08
  Speaker 8: that they were actually just truspassing. And there was this
• 39:11
  Speaker 8: corner crossing case, but it turned out like when they
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: went back and investigated, these guys were just it was
• 39:16
  Speaker 8: just a plane trustpass So every example that she gave
• 39:19
  Speaker 8: to sort of throw doubt on corner crossing is a
• 39:22
  Speaker 8: legitimate form of access. Every one of those was were
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: cases in which people claimed they're corner crossing, but they're
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: actually just trustpassing.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Because I think what's motivating that with people is guys
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: are saying, hey, once we're on there, we'll just say
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: we crossed at the corner, right, And those guys are
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: going to screw this whole thing, right, Yes, those guys
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: are going to screw this exactly, because if we're on
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: there to say, we can't just like say we came
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: over from blankety blank corner.
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah, especially when you're out there in the middle of nowhere,
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: right and oftentimes there are no fences. You're like, well,
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: this seems pretty arbitrary.
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, right.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: If I was a landowner, I'd put a camera on
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: my property on the corner. And then when guys are
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: like my corner across and I know they didn't corner across,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I know they came in from some other way, I'd
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: be like, well, let's go have a look. Your picture
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: should be on my camera, and behold, you ain't on.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: It, yeah, at the corner.
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: The other interesting thing that the Lieutenant Governor brought up
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: is problem corners, which is something that came up in
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: Wyoming as well, where we don't have the exact location
• 40:28
  Speaker 7: of a corner anymore because it was marked with a
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: pile of rocks or a you know, dinosaur bone is
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: something people reference. I've never seen that personally, and or
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: there was a tree there, or there was something other
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: than a survey marker, right, Big Boulder, something that is
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: going to be very, very hard to cross over the
• 40:51
  Speaker 7: top of without having to step on on private land.
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: It's awesome that the Lieutenant Governor brought that up. The
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: state of Montana is not doing anything to identify those.
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: Neither has the state of Wyoming. We created a site
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: at Backcountry Hunters and Anglers use an rgis where if
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: you would like to turn in problem corners so we
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: can identify them, that you can just PLoP your coordinate
• 41:20
  Speaker 7: coordinates in there. And that can be a misaligned defence,
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: that can be a missing monument marker, that can be
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: all all sorts of things that just go, oh, this
• 41:30
  Speaker 7: puts me outside of this legal gray air.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I was, and the lead up to this, as this
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: is going on, I was picturing and I don't even
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: know how it would play out. I was picturing doing
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: fundraising in order to help clarify mark and identify corners.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: The problem with that, I can I imagine my own
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: problem you would run into is you would need to
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: get the Land Management Agency on board yeap, and it
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: just might not be a thing they want to entertain.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But if you to go out and be like, hey, no,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: we're going to pay for it. We'd like to have
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: we'd like to have the corner surveyed and marked, But
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: then you'd have to do with the permit process with them,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: and depending on their attitude about how much they want
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to court controversy, they might not welcome that input and
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: they might not have a mechanism to accept that money.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: Anyways, you probably have to get the landowners involved too,
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: which they.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Might they might not be that excited about that.
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it was.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: In my mind.
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: And the thing that we've said from the get go
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: or ed is like, we just need a nice, very
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: quiet solution because the vast majority of these people don't
• 42:38
  Speaker 7: want to be hassled. They don't want to see a
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: bunch of trucks piled up at a corner. And I'm like,
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: and neither do hunters. Like, we just want to know
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: that we're in the right and not be hassled and
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: go do our thing, and that is it. So there's
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: a ton of ton of ground in the middle here,
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: and we're really really trying to keep it that way.
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: Versus see, some of these arguments get picked up like oh,
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: it's anti private property rights, whereas we're trying to define
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: private property rights, and like happened in Wyoming, we were
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: very supportive of a bill that clarified private property language
• 43:18
  Speaker 7: and you know, gave some assurances to the private side
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: of the fence that people know what private property is.
• 43:28
  Speaker 7: But what we're seeing out of the state so far
• 43:31
  Speaker 7: is a lot of acknowledgment of the problems without any
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: work towards fixing those problems, or like you said, you know,
• 43:45
  Speaker 7: I had brought a solution that would take a lot
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: of work, but I think would pay really big dividends
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: for everybody. And you know, there just wasn't a lot
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: of interest in endorsing that effort or even acknowledging it
• 44:03
  Speaker 7: as something productive. But I think we'll get there, and
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: that might be something that this lawsuit helps with. There's
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: another program that we put into action in Montana through
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: the legislature that would provide private property owners the ability
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: to create easements through the block management program, so they
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: wouldn't have to open up their property to hunting, but
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: they could provide an access corridor to landlocked lands or
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: corner locked lands. Man so same deal willing buyer willing
• 44:39
  Speaker 7: seller scenario, and would be contractual, just like our block
• 44:44
  Speaker 7: management private land public access program.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Is slick man pay people for pay people for trespass.
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: However, we can't get any metrics out of the state
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: as to how many people were in asked in the program,
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: how many people they actually talk to about it, any
• 45:03
  Speaker 7: sort of feedback. And so, you know, I think if
• 45:08
  Speaker 7: we want this program to succeed and be a viable option,
• 45:12
  Speaker 7: put a couple of bucks in the pocket of producers
• 45:15
  Speaker 7: who are keeping land open for wildlife connected.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: That might be a good private That might be a
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: good privately funded effort.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And it's going to make a little pot of money,
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: make people aware of.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: We got to move on.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: But but picture you set it up and you make
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: a little pot of money and strike your own deals
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: with a private with a private entity yep, nonprofit entity.
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: Yep.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: All right, ladies, gentlemen, Ryan Callahan back from the dead,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: CEO of back Hunter Hunters.
• 45:43
  Speaker 9: Names, welcome back, col Thanks right, thank you.
• 45:46
  Speaker 7: Do I get to sit in on the rest of
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: you out.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Can I say one last thing? I'm looking at the
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: thirty one page document with the Montana Lieutenant governor like
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: made this announcement on slide seven of thirty one slides.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: They say ownership of real property extends above and below
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: the surface. From ancient Roman law quote to whom whomsoever
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: the soil belongs, he owns also the sky and.
• 46:10
  Speaker 7: To the depths, from the heavens to the hell.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I think if you're if you're referencing what do they
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: say about COVID vaccine recomend, if.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: You're referencing something from five hundred BC, from an empire
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: that doesn't exist, you're on the losing side of the
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: argument that that just like doesn't work.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: That reminds me of die do a from the land
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: and from the sea.
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: From there there's been this is where this is the
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: structure of a lot of our private property. Lin in
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: America right comes Roman England over here, and that has
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: been referenced many times. Is like, yeah, that's a fun
• 46:47
  Speaker 7: history fact. But is it applicable.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: People that kill Jesus?
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: What if we find something from like the uss R
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: that said something about like stepping from one.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Because that's not because law and flow that way. I
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: gotta move on. There is a thing to this.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: There is a thing that bird like like, why why
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: can't we do the USSR?
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't work that way? Okay, it's like the
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: cradle of Western civilization.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, a new jaguars and Arizona. They named it Sinco,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: somewhat arbitrarily.
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: Good job, Phil, good looking, kid looking jaguar.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Dude, you want to see a great photo, Phil type
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: in Jaguar in the snow.
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: Just just a random jaguar, just.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Jaguar and the snow. I know what image you're gonna
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: pull up. Yeah, I'll tell you. It's somewhat arbitrary. It's
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the fifth jaguar known to be in Arizona in the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: last twenty years. Okay, it's more it's more interesting than that.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is so so this jaguar is hanging around.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: The people that are tracking it with trail cameras don't
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: want to be too specific about its location, but it's
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: in the sky island out and chains south of Tucson,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: in Arizona and cous to your country. Here's where it's interesting.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: This jaguar Sinco is using the same travel corridors it's using.
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: Which one of these you want to look at?
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Never mind? I thought you'd pull it right up.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Arizona jaguars snow. There's a trail cam photo. Just whatever,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: never mind, keep that one up.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: For that's sinko. It is using this is where it
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: gets good. It's using the same.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Water holes, travel corridors, trails as another one of these
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: jaguars did in the past.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know which one, but it's it because so
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: it's like there's there's two things.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: One is it that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: This piece of habitat is so good and it's like
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: such a signature of what jaguars want.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: That it's like he just settled into the same place.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Or is it that.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: There is years old residual odor from a jaguar which
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: is holding this jaguar's attention, Or is it like site fidelity,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: meaning if you let's say you went to a farm
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: and you killed all the deer off a farm, so
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: there's no institutional memory, right, and new deer come back,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: They're probably gonna wind up coming out of the same
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: corner bedding in the same area, right, Like they're gonna
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: look at it the same way you take all the
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: fish out of a lake. It's not like you put
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: new fish in the lake that they're gonna have a
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: totally different way of hanging out. They're gonna like the
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: same stuff. I'm just guessing here, but it's probably true.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: So it's just interesting that they're drawn to certain things,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: which opens up the possibility because when jaguars turn up
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: in Arizona, they're always males. They're dispersing males coming out
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: of Mexico. But it opens up the possibility that what
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: would seem so random that a female would s up
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and you'd be like, w how the hell's a female
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: ever going to find a male?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: But maybe there's something about the site specificity that opens
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: up the idea that you could plausibly, instead of having
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: one jaguar at a time in Arizona, you could plausibly
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: have two that are drawn to the same place and
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: find each other, which is promising. Again, this dude, Sinko
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: is a male. All these are males.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: There's a guy. There's a researcher quoted in this Tucson Star.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Is that the name of the outfit? The name of
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: the old rag Sentinel? Tucson Sentinel.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: There's a researcher saying, perhaps these jaguars, I don't know
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: where he gets this. They're fleeing persecution in the South.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Come on, that's not what's the jaguars? Not like I'm
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: sensing persecution of myself in the South. I'm gonna move
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: up to like the North. It's dispersing males. It's like
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: males trying to find new territories.
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: When he says persecution, I don't mean by other males
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: or likes.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: The same guy also get to their point. That guy,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the same guy said, that's.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: A jaguar in Arizona. Picture of that jaguar in the snow.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: That's what I want more of in my life. Jaguars
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: in the snow. I'm a big, huge you might not
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: notice about me, huge jaguar advocate.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I want jaguars back in America. Big cat guy, big
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: cat guy, not just that big jaguar guy. They don't
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: want to put a.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Collar around these jaguars because they got a hangover from
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: They got a hangover from the Macho be I know, listen,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna hear about it. I have dear friends that
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: don't like talking about this. There's a hangover from an
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: incident called the Macho b incident where in Arizona. I
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: don't want to get into it too much. In Arizona,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: they caught a jaguar and sedated it with the sedative
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: That is good for mountain lions, but is not good
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: for members of the Pantera genus.
• 52:24
  Speaker 7: And how'd they find that out?
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Because it had kidney failure.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: So now there is a man. Let's not be putting
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: no collars, I no jaguars, I without being a without
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: being a wildlife professional, I think you should. The reason
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I think you should is because it would help you
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: when some guy sees this and shoots it because he's
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: wondering what it is. It would help you know that happen,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: where that happened. Potentially who did it?
• 52:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, who the persecuting party?
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: When it goes off radar. If you're only using trailcams
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: when it goes off off radar, only thing you know
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: is that it's not walking in front of your cameras.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: If you got a collar, you get a mortality signal.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: It just seems to me be better to put a
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: collar on that son of a bitch, to to risk,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: to take the risk put a collar on it. If
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: it was a female, I might be like, too risky,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: don't do it on a male.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I'd put a collar on that sucker.
• 53:23
  Speaker 7: But isn't it heffle fingers? Like long position? Like how
• 53:27
  Speaker 7: much actual mating went on in the Arizona side of
• 53:32
  Speaker 7: the line.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I am not gonna mention Jim Heffelfinger, Okay, except for
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: just what I did right there.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, perfect, I am not mentioning.
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, yeah, good, good Yeah.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: The same researcher. The trouble with all this is this
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: damn border.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Fence between US and Mexico. I give my I'm not
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: even gonna give my spiel again about this. This is
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: a wildlife show, so I'm not talking about egg production.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: This is a wildlife show. The one way we can
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: guarantee to never have jaguars back is you build an
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: impenetrable barrier between US and Mexico because they're coming out
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: of Mexico.
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: We're going to talk about that next week.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: One of the researchers saying, when these jaguars come up
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: against the border fence, he suggests, I get what he's getting.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: Act.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: He's trying to be like real anti fence, which I appreciate,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: but in this case this is his job.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: But then he.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Uses the same scare tactics that I hate people using, like, like,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: just be honest, He's like, they come up against the
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: fence and they'll just walk along the fence until they
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: die of thirst or starve to death.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: No, that's just not what animal How animals?
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: How many like go to any fence and walk along
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: and find all the starve to death, died of thirst,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: deer along the fence, They come up to a fence,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: they try to find a way through, and then they
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: go about their business.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think that deaths could.
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: Be true if you're talking about I get it.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: He's kind of like being like, man, I don't want
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: this fence. What can I say? That sounds like crazy
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: that walk down the fence until they starve.
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: And he's like.
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: South Texas Colt Snap.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: I thought, or it seems like the beach the Atlantic
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: coast would just be dead animals that hit the shoreline
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: and then walked until they starved to death. It would
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: just be nothing but dead animals up and down the coastline.
• 55:29
  Speaker 7: I thought, Uh, we're making big headway on having permeable
• 55:33
  Speaker 7: sections of the border down there.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm a big advocate of electronic barriers.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: As technologies get so good, Lord know's drones are getting good.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: As their technologies get so good, some people are even positing.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's even people that are primary, and again.
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: There is like that Constitutional Sheriffs group down there that
• 55:53
  Speaker 7: was like, no, we do not need a wall through
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: Big Ben National Park and through Yeah.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: It's more more, and it's like we are brand promise
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: is we focus on wildlife and outdoor stuff and hunting
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: and fishing.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm not talking about this.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: It's out of this show's area of expertise to talk
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: about the impacts of illegal migration, which are huge, and
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: there are plenty of places you can go listen to
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: the news and hear about that. This is a wildlife show.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: The fence is a good for wildlife. You can accept
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that and then come up to whatever decision you want
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: about fences.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: That's up to you. I respect your decision, But for.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Wildlife it ain't good. You can decide that you don't
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: care about that. That's totally fine. That's your right as
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: a listener feel what you think. For wildlife, it's a bummer.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, I'll say for the wildlife question,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: there's also increasingly there's an argument to be made that
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: electronic barriers are more effective, quicker to put in place,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: and ultimately less expensive.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: I'll just leave it at that. There's plenty places to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: go read more about it. And we're also now going
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: to talk about Jim Hefflefinger.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: Can I talk about going.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Real fast? Get ready for an email?
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: The other day, In an email, Jim called himself Forrest Gump.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: I'm currently reading. I'm currently reading Forrest Gump. He's not
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Forrest Gump.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, you can't read. It's terrible. It's really the book.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: In two pages, Forrest goes from protesting the Vietnam War
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: to being thrown in a mental health hospital, to becoming
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: an astronaut, to going to outer space with a gorilla,
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: the wrong gorilla, to crash landing the space shuttle with
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: in Papua New Guinea where he lives with cannibals. That
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: all happens in two pages. So I'm sorry, Jim Hefflefinger,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: You're not Forrest Gump. Wow, the book is in and.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I read that, damn.
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: But don't read the book.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: The movies. The movie's great. I love the brick. Yea
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: half a Finger not for kids? Half a Finger, No,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: there's a part. Yeah, I just want to move on.
• 58:03
  Speaker 9: Let's move on.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Just this morning, I was talking about having half a
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Finger come back on the show, about something totally different,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: which is super fascinating.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: He can speak for himself. Okay, who's up? I can't
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: wait for him? Speaking of technology, ladies and gentlemen. This
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: is Seth's first news story.
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: Hopefully it goes well.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: See did you practice in front of your wife's no guarantees?
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Seth?
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: I'm not worried about it.
• 58:31
  Speaker 10: A recent study published by the i c S Journal
• 58:34
  Speaker 10: Marine Science found that boats using the omni sonar or
• 58:39
  Speaker 10: omni directional sonar while fishing the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament,
• 58:45
  Speaker 10: which is a billfish tournament.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Morehead City, North, kind of acting Michael Jordan competes.
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: Now, yeah, is that.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: The same one where the dude had the one that
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: got bit by a shark or something like that.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:56
  Speaker 10: They they found that, uh, boats that were using the
• 59:00
  Speaker 10: technology experience sixty to eighty four percent higher catch rates
• 59:04
  Speaker 10: than boats without the technology.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I wish I could whistle better because I go.
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: What is omni sonar? You might ask, well, it is.
• 59:15
  Speaker 10: It is an advanced underwater scanning system that gives anglers
• 59:19
  Speaker 10: a three hundred and sixty degree live sonar view.
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: That's what the screen looks like.
• 59:23
  Speaker 10: Visual aid so that there on the left would be
• 59:27
  Speaker 10: a mark a fish.
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: Really, Yeah, what's the other stuff.
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: It's just it's it's like c current and you're not
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: able to tell how far that mark is from the boat.
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, somehow. I don't exactly. It's like very high tech
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: stuff that I have no experience with.
• 59:43
  Speaker 10: But and I was watching a video on it, and
• 59:45
  Speaker 10: it's it seems like they can click on that with
• 59:48
  Speaker 10: a cursor and they can go to it, go to it.
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: I can track it.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: Oh well, not remy, but Renee, Renee, he uses it.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I called him a few times and everything.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: He said that they basically they don't troll anymore. Yeah,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: they find the fish and then they feed that fish
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: a particular bait that they I was watching.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 10: A video of it, and they're like, oh, there's a mark,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 10: and he like clicked on it, and the boat like
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 10: kind of navigated to that mark. And he's like, all right,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 10: we're going over it right now, and he scans over.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 10: He scans his phone over to down image and he's like,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 10: there's the fish. And then he turns around and starts
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 10: filming his baits that he's trolling, and then he hooks
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 10: up on a fish Sons.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Of Bitches Man, which called jealousirt.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 10: Yeah, man, anyway, it's like it's like Ford facing sonar,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 10: but it's like a three It cast like a three
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 10: hundred and sixty degree beam around the boat and.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: Like yeah, and it descends out of the hole.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a through the hole transducer. I have pictures
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: of the thing.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: If we were a long time going someone invented a hook,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: would we be like, what's the world coming to you?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 7: I was in a technology seminar at the North American
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 7: Wildlife Thing a couple of weeks ago, and one of
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 7: their examples of emerging technology was choke tubes, and people
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 7: were like, what's.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: The world right there to number.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 10: Three right here the far right is the actual unit,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 10: and then that's the whole, the hole in the bottom
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 10: of the hole in the middle, and then that's the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 10: transducer coming out of the bottom.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Put that sucker in and retract it out. This is
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: a phenomenal.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: You don't want to be underway. I don't think with that.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: You know, you gotta you gotta.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 9: Did it say how much these systems cost?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I was gonna get to that towards the end.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to need a new job. I'm gonna
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: get off the island, all right.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 10: So the study analyzed two years. Randall c over there,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 10: Sure it's nice and warm. The study analyzed two years
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 10: of data from this specific tournament twenty twenty four twenty
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 10: twenty five, and the scientists doing the study compared catch
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 10: rates between boats equipped with the technology and without it,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 10: and they found that the technology significantly increased catch rates
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 10: of blue marlin and other plagic species. Data from three
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 10: hundred and two participants was analyzed in twenty twenty four
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 10: and two hundred and seventy two participants in twenty twenty five.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 10: Of the five hundred and seventy four participants, about fifty
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 10: to fifty were using the sonar. In the two years
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 10: that were analyzed, forty six of the boats Okay, this
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 10: is a lot of numbers here. Forty six of the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 10: boats caught four or more billfish. So you can kind
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 10: of see in this chart here the light blue does
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 10: not have it, Dark blue has it. So allwood left there.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 10: That's you know, one hundred and sixty plus boats that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 10: do not have the sonar caught zero fish. Okay, you
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 10: know whatever. Seventy five ish caught no fish. Now, if
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 10: you go all the way to the right.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: So one hundred and sixty boats with no sonar caught
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: zero fish. Seventy eight boats with no sonar caught zero
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: fish with sorry, So if.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 10: You go to the right, here there is you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 10: you start you start getting to the part of the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 10: chart where boats with without the sonar aren't catching over
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 10: you know, five fish?
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Can I can I deterprete this real quick?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Go ahead.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: It's a little confusing, No, it is, but I'm but
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I'm just under trying to think about people not listening.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: So if you look at like boats that got skunked, Okay,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: you got one hundred and sixty boats with no sonar
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: that got skunked. You got seventy five boats with sonar
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: that got skunked. So it's not a guarantee, right, But
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: then you get down and let's say you're talking about
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: catching four fish at the point when it's you caught
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: four billfish. No boats with no sonar caught four. Ye,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Only people that caught four are boats with sonar five fish.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: No one with no sonars catching five, six, No one
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: with no sonars catching six, seven, same eight, same nine, same.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: So if you don't so basically this chart is saying,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: if you don't have sonar, your catch is capped at
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: three billfish. If you have it, it seems you'd have
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: the potential.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: To catch nine.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: But then this is the question I got for you,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: and I told you this when we talked. Is it
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: just the classic case of that those dudes that the
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: dudes that are so serious they would have caught more anyway,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: are also the guys that happened to have the sonar.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: Well, I got something for you.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 10: Whoa there were from twenty twenty four twenty five, there
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 10: were sixteen boats that went from not having the technology
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 10: to having it and their catch rate increased by ninety
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 10: four percent.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, seth, you can can pay someone in a jury trial.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: I liked the.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 7: Four catch because that's like, like you, it's like people
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 7: without sonar but really know the system, the currents there there,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 7: they're fishy dudes. That's where they drop off, right, It's
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 7: like they they've all that skill then is outmatched by
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 7: the advantage of technology.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Am I hallucinating? Is there a blip?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah? So yeah.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: I even there's a sonar boat that is clocking in
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: at eighteen billfish.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that had six of those on ours.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: I mean another way to read this they had one
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: really good day.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 8: Another way to read this is that the majority of
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 8: boats without sonar got skunked, and that boats with sonar
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 8: were just as likely to catch one or two, essentially
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 8: as ripping bills.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: Why this might come back to the cost thing, but
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: why would some boats not even have it because it's.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: New or well, so he's got something for the great question, Brody.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 10: The researchers looked at the teams that struggled during the tournament,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 10: and of the boats that didn't catch any billfish, those
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 10: without omnisnar out numbered those with it more than two
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 10: to one. So cost breakdown the the omni directional sonar unit,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 10: depending on who you get it, from ninety five to
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 10: one hundred thousand dollars install is twenty five to thirty grand.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Could you death?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Could you install them?
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: I'd have to I go.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 11: You got cut a whole. It's not just any boat
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 11: is a million.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: Or seventy kings that big expensive boat.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: I feel like for a lot of these boat owners
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: that cost is.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: This just kind of puts in perspective.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 10: The tournament entry fee is fifty thousand dollars per boat,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 10: and the the purse in total is just over six
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 10: point three million dollars.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: You're wasting money if you're fish and without Yeah, but
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: you still gotta have it.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Be your wife's like looking at credit card stuff and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: there's like a zinger.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: There is a zinger maybe on there that isn't normally
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: on there. What's this one hundred thousand dollars?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 7: I'd be really interested to know, Like fuel consumed with boats,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 7: yeah versus without good argument.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: That's what you went up telling me, is like, baby listen,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: this is more. This is gonna save me on fuel.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and winnings. The percentage of time on the water
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: goes up higher.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 7: That's the reasonall uh the twenty three boats out there
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 7: is there's a lot of side money being wager.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: The Calcuttas is the big money in these tournaments.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: So then you just say you like, baby listen, man,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: it's like when you look at all my prize money
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: and fuel savings, you're gonna thank me.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 8: I can go out and get a fish and be
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 8: back for time at the country club, play a game
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 8: of tennis.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: On the afternoon, to take your mom on the best
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: in our relationships.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: Actually it'll be uh, they'll be like, oh that Mark's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 6: not big enough.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 9: We need to go find another one.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: His first year that one of these was in the tournament.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: Was there one boat that had it? Or was there
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: are five boats that had it?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Like, was there one year where one guy was just
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: like yeah, or the boats that were thinking that?
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 10: You know, I think that's how What are you sure about?
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 10: I think that's how it was with like the beast
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 10: Master lead series. You know, like somebody the first year
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 10: forward facing sonar came on the scene. A couple of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 10: boats had it. Yeah, they were doing it well, I
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 10: mean it took a lot.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: I like to know if it was one or if
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: it was ten the first year.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Hey, I want to point out to Seth was talking
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: about that he got bad grades in high school.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Jimmy has a brave So there is a path forward.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: This guy, this guy over here, This is an amazing segment
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: keeping up to the Jordan's power.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: This thing down Phil amazing, I note, Yeah, lunchtime.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Spencer.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: South Dakota announced earlier this month that they are creating
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: a new ELK unit that will have an unlimited number
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: of tags. Before we talk about that, though, we should
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: look at the history of ELK in the state kind
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: of frame how we got here. Native to Damn near
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: the entire lower forty eight Phil has a map there
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: forests that shows this from the US Forest Service shows
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: their historic range outside of Florida and a little bit
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: of New England. Elk touch Damn near every state and
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: for context, their footprint is very similar to the distribution
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: of white tailed deer. Like that's how much they they
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: crossed the entire cont.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I didn't know. This is a
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: great graphic. What I didn't know is that they didn't.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Like the cascades. Yeah, they liked both sides.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: They didn't like the actual spine now specifically the Sierra Nevada.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Sorry, didn't like the Sierra Nevada. Guesscades.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: I'd say that's out there North Washington, Central Oregon, specific
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: to South Dakota, Manitoba, and Elker native to the whole state,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: as they are much of the Great Plains west of there,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: starting in central Montana, central Wyoming, the Rocky Mountain Elk
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: east of there starting Minnesota, Iowa, or the eastern Elk
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: Elk were extirpated from South Dakota in the late eighteen hundreds.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: It's thought the last one was killed there in eighteen
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: eighty eight. The state started restocking them almost immediately less
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: than a couple decades later, and they got those elk
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: from Yellowstone Jackson Hole, and by nineteen twenty eight, South
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: Dakota had an elk season again, so you know, thirty
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: years later they were hunting them. Now, those restocking efforts
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: were focused on the Black Hills, which is where about
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: eighty five percent of the state's herd lives today. There
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: is a picture from wind Cave National Park of an
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: elk cred if you're not familiar to the Black Hills
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: are located in way western South Dakota. It's where Mount
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: Rushmore is, just east of Devil's Tower in Wyoming. The
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: Black Hills they rise up out of the prairie. It's
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: separate from the Rocky Mountains, and it's actually home to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Black Elk Peak, which is the highest point east of
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: the Rocky Mountains seven two hundred feet. The Black Hills
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: are just like textbook l cabitat. There's about eight thousand
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: of them that live there today. Now most of the
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: bull tags that are considered once in a lifetime tags.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, forty two thousand hunters applied for
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: twenty five hundred licenses. Actually, today as we sit here,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: the archery draw happened and the rifle draw, so some
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: folks are finding out that they just one of these
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: lifetime tags. They just got their email congratulation this morning.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, forty two thousand hunters applying for
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: twenty five hundred licenses. Even having dozens of preference points
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: isn't good enough to guarantee a tag. Last year, in
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: one of their more popular units, there were six applicants
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: who had twenty seven preference points and only one of
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: those six drew a tag. That means those hunters had
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: been applying since the nineteen nineties at one point. They
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: still have to wait some more. We're looking at one
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: of these draw tables right now. There were three guys
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: with twenty eight points and only one of them drew
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: a tag. So you're up for a long wait there.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: Harvest rates are always really high, though, because there's intense
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: management spreads out hunting pressure limits licenses for bulls. Again,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: that's specific to the Black Hills, where most of the
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: state's elklive. The other fifteen percent of the elk are
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: spread out across the prairie, and there's some very limited
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: hunting that happens with those herds. Most of those elk
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: live on the west side of the Missouri River. The
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: Missouri River kind of perfectly splits the state in half
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: and actually plays a significant role in the state's wildlife
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: management when it comes to big game deer, turkey's, elk,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: even some of their waterfowl. The state has kind of
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: broadly created three distinct zones that they manage. There's the
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: Black Hills where all the elk live. Then there's West River,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: which is everything left of the Missouri River that's not
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: part of the Black Hills, and then there's East River,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: which is everything right of the Missouri River. When it
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: comes to elk, it's easy to remember, Yeah, when you're
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: having like a conversation with another South Dakota and it's
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: like East River, West River, you know, it comes to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: like deer hunting. You grew up where you fezan hunt.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: It's just like perfectly cut the state and half makes
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: it very clean for managing game as well as just
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: communicating about game. Now when it comes to elk, the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: Black Hills has those herds that we talked about, and
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: then there's the West River where some sporadic populations live.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: Variety of landscapes, butte country badlands, cedar draws, cattle pastures, prairie,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: egg river bottoms. It's not all that different than what
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: you'd find in eastern Montana, for example, or western Nebraska,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: where elk also live. There's about a half dozen West
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: River units that give out some tags, and it's thought
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: that there's a few thousand elk that live west of
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: the Missouri River that are not in the Black Hills.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: Then there's East River. There are just a sprinkling of
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: elk that exists east River. This is a trail camp
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: photo I got three years ago way eastern South Dakota,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: not even really close to the Missouri River, but they
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: do exist there.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: Where are they coming out of?
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: If you see one where I grew up in way
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: eastern South Dakota, there would be equal chance that it
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: came from western South Dakota or western Nebraska, or it
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: came from a high fence farm somewhere in Minnesota. Eastern
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: South Dakota just wandered off one day and got away.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: So this is a bowl elk. I got a pinch
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: point I was bow hunting. I think in twenty twenty three.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: I also saw one on the hoof in twenty seventeen,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: so it happens. It's a thing. The state doesn't provide
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: any official numbers for the herds east River. There's just
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: some guessing as to what their rate is. But up
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: until this year, if you were to shoot an elk
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: east River, you'd be considered a poacher. You get fat, fine,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: you lose your hunting rights. You'd just be labeled a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: straight up evil person by your fellow autdoorsment because you
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: took one of the state's most coveted animals out of
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: a range that is expanding to all on its own.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: That is no longer the case though, in South Dakota,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: because they are now giving out an unlimited number of
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: elk tags for everything east of the Missouri River, besides
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: tribal lands, which is its own thing. They want they
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: want them gone, they want to eliminate them. Agriculture. Yeah,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: we'll get to it.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: The new two.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: No, it's I like.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: The new elk tag.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: It's it's created to eradicate the elk that live east
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: of the Missouri.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: River because when they eat something that's different.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: Very different. Here's some quotes from the South Dakota Game
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: Fish and Parks reps about this new tag. Quote, elk
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: are a fantastic big game animal that are welcome in
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: every other part of the state. But the fact that
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: the fact is we just can't tolerate having them in
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: eastern South Dakota. Here here's another quote from Director Tom
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: kersh Uh. He said this in the meeting where this
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: was voted on, quote, we have no intentions of managing
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: elk on the prairie in the eastern part of the state. Now,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: during this brief process, the GFP is refer instan that
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: these elk are creating problems with landowners by eating crops
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: and wrecking fences, which is why they explicitly said they
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: will not tolerate them. Here's a picture in western South
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Dakota of a bowl elk that is feasting agriculture.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: So bitch is like at a blind.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's standing right in front of an elevated redneck blind.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: Legislative committee voted forty two to allow this. In a
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: separate vote by the GFP commissioners, it's a group of
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: eight appointed by the governor. They unanimously voted to approve this.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: So the GFP suits are all about this elk eradication plan.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: Residents do not agree with him, though. I posted a
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: poll in a private Facebook group called the East River
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: South Dakota Hunting and Fishing, which is just what it
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: sounds like. It's largely made up of South Dakota residents
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: who like the hunt and fish east of the Missouri River.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: There are seventeen thousand people in this Facebook group. I asked,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: what do you think of the new unlimited East River
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: elk tags? Do you approve, disapprove, We're not sure. Three
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: hundred twenty three people took this poll. Seventeen percent said
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: that they approve, seventy three percent said they disapprove, and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: ten percent said they're not sure. That means that more
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: than seven out of ten South Dakotas do not like
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: this management.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: You sure that wasn't the Iran War.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen that talked about in the East River
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: South Dakota Hunting.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: And remarkably similar breakout.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: It's a similar approval rate.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: Of the seventeen approves in defense, Sorry, go ahead of.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 7: The seventeen percent that approved. Do they have access to
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 7: a play out?
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 10: Uh?
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Huh, yeah, I've been seeing one. Yeah, it's it's it's indefensible.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: I'm with you.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: I agree it seven its native. It's like God put
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: them there.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: I was expecting you, Steve to do a gotcha and say, well,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: they're rocky mountain elk, so they're not actually native. But
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: South Dakota in their elk management plan, calls elk the
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: biggest native uh deer that's hunted in the state, so
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: they they consider even though they're rocky mount rocky mountain
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: elk and not native to South Dakota, they call them
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: a native animal.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 6: But I mean Pennsylvania and Kentucky are rocky mountain elk too,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: But if they knew that it was all game farm escapes,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: it's not I could see it. If you have elk
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: wild elk walking in on their own four feet onto
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: native habitat, that's a that's a no no. Yeah, there's
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: like a moral no no.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: Their main argument is that the elk are creating private
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: land conflicts. Well guess what that happens in every state
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: Eastern Montana, western Nebraska, western North Dakota, eastern Wyoming, eastern Colorado,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: central Pennsylvania.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, and kill every elk in the country and.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: Just across the Missouri River. In South Dakota, the same
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: thing happens.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: And this is the ass depending on your perspective, totally.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: You hit them with your car, that's a pain in
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: the ass. They eat your crops, that's a pain in
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: the ass. I don't know, ticks, whatever, You should kill
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: all everything, it feelss can be a pain in the ass.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe this is where they would have landed eventually, but
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: they skipped like twenty steps to get here. You know,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: they went from Hey, we have elk expanding all on
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: their own too. We don't want them here, so we
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: just have to eliminate them.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Turkeys can be a pay They should kill all the turkeys.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Turkeys can be a pain in the ass.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's hazing programs, there's depredation tags, there's reimbursements given
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: to landowners who carry that burden of feeding elk. There
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: are reimbursements given to landowners that allow elk hunting. These
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: are all tools that South Dakota currently uses when they
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: manage their elk. But for some reason, they've they've gone
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: away from all of those for this East River herd
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: and they're going straight to we need to get rid
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: of them.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 6: Is there other state that maybe you looked into this.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 6: Maybe is there other states that feel the same way
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 6: about elk, like Kansas.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: Or well Yanni brought it up there, like in Texas.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, Texas, I agree.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: I but Texas turned around and made native made, made
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: native elk non native.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 7: Think uh Ark and a lot of their reintroduced states
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 7: do have zones of like tollerants kind of like we
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 7: do for the Byson. So it's like outside of here
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 7: then there's way more liberal tags or you know, various
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 7: ways of man understood.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: It's easy to say, oh, let's just have them there,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: but you have to remember that it costs a lot
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: of money to manage these animals. And when you have
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: a new population like that, it's like if all of
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: a sudden you said, oh, I have the money, I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: will pay for it to for you to manage these animals,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: they'd probably be more forthcoming.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: How much does it costing them? And again like that,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: oh I think a lot.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: I mean just the well, because it's it's the ag depredation, right,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: like that's what they like.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: But the elk west of the river are eating crops.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: They are, but it's been like socially accepted there.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: It's like the West River prairie unit that's like kind
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: of new as well. I mean, like if I were
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: to talk to my dad or my father in law
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: that came along in their lifetime and they're just like
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: cool with you know, having Elton West River that landowners
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: deal with.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 6: Is it a thing where the damage is happening now
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 6: or they're just trying to get ahead of it as
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 6: before that population.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know this, but I know you know what
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. You ever have a thing where you know
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: but you don't know.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 9: Well, there's some guy.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: There's a well healed guy. There's a well healed guy
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: that has the ear of his local politicians, and he's
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: down there and the local politician really looks off to
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: him because he's like the salt of the earth and
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: he wishes he was like that guy, right, And that
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: guy is.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't want you some of the bitch and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: elk running around. Yeah, And the guy's like, oh, I'm
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: tough too. I'm a big tough guy, rancher guy. And
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: so he's like, we shill kill them all when you'll
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: see how tough I am.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: When they the East River population of Elk, they say
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: they mostly exist between peer and chamber, and Peer is
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: the state capitol. And so it's exactly what you said, Steve.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: That's what people suspect is that like there is someone
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: who has the dinner of Peer, there is a donor
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: who would like will get to benefit from this, or he.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Just wants to be able when they show up. He
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: wants to be all shooting because it's big bulls. He's
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: got a big bulls. An example of my argument if
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: you can do it quick, because we got kids show
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: I was talking to some of our neighbors who experienced
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: elk depredation of their crops last year, and a couple
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: of counties to the north it happens all the time,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: and they pay out the farmers it's no big deal.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: So they've been letting like this population is growing. It's
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: come down into the county where we have some land
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: in there, the Cirtle. The soil is extremely more fertile
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: than two counties to the north, so there's a much
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: higher production per acre and so the payout that they're
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: having to do for this for the same amount of acreage.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: When an elk comes in and kills you know, one acre,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: it can be tenfold.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 5: The dough.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: But extend the logic. All wildlife is a pain in
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: the ass. I understand.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: It's like geese eat crops. So if the logic holds,
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: they should cease to exist. It's always been true of everything.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: If the fact that something causes problems means it shouldn't
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: be around, and you extend that logic out, it's silent spring.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: All wildlife is a pain in the ass. From someone's perspective,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: I have a.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Thing living in my wall right now.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Whatever that is, I'm not gonna I believe it might
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: be a pine squirrel.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be like they all need to die.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 9: You might have a mouse soon.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: No, it's too big. This thing is big.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 9: No, I'm saying that mouse.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty soon they're gonna hang out of that mouse
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: to hit them out getting out of that thing.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: A couple more things real quick.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: I feel like typically it's kind of a lazy argument
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: when wildlife man should be like, we should just relocate them.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: If there's like a problem bear, we should move it.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: You know, there's like elk are causing crop damage, we
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: should we should move it. From the nineteen seventies to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties and a twenty year span, South Dakota
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: relocated over seven hundred elk. So this is like something
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: they've done in the past. They're very capable of putting
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: these things.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: On every one of those thousands of dollars.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, but like that's a better alternative I think than
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: just like getting rid of these things.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: Make it disagree. I want to move on by disagree, but.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: Then then relocating them. I'm saying the state's.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 7: Don't have trouble with a new format of the there's
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 7: this drive to keep moving.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's the episode of title today.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 6: Just let them hunt the damn things, but don't make
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 6: it unlimited.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Give us some takes. Just keep moving. You got anything else?
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: Go to my final image film, last hurried, last thing
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: the state record typically was killed a few years ago.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: It gross or it scored three ninety two gross, three
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: eighty three net. And guess what that elk was living
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: on private land in western South Dakota on the prairie.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: Like this is a bull that just on the other
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: side of the river, spent all of his life, for
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: most of his life, living on private ground, and South
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: Dakota is very happy to manage these helk the ranchers
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: deal with them, and we produced a state record bowl.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 8: And a very happy man.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: You could you produced the state right, you could have
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: a spike be the state record.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: You'd have to be. We produced a world record bowl.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: Well, we produced a three hundred and eighty three.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: But like you see what I'm saying, right, Yeah, I
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: don't want to spend too much time on it.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 9: Speaking of elt, I got another story about out.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: We need to manage him like a game animal, not
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: a man.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: Done done, I'm gonna send a letter of complaint to
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: the South Dakota Tourism Board.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 9: Chronic wasting disease.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: Well, before I get to the National Olk Refuge, Delaware
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 6: just became thirty seventh state with CWD, which leads into
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 6: what I'm going to talk about. Chronic wasting disease was
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 6: just detective, like officially detected on the National Elk Refuge
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 6: near Jackson, Wyoming. If you don't know what the National
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 6: Olk Refuge is, it was established in nineteen twelve near Jackson,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 6: Wyoming after a severe winners and over hunting decimated the
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: elk herd in that area in the late eighteen hundreds
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 6: early nineteen hundred's kind of the same story that was
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 6: happening everywhere.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: It's where South Dakota got some of their elk.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a federally managed wildlife refuge. Congress created it
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 6: to provide winter habitat and do supplemental feeding to avoid,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 6: you know, having that whole herd start to death. Ultimately,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 6: it became the largest wintering ground for elk in North
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: America and on average anywhere from eight to eleven thousand
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 6: elk spend the winter there and it's become a major
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 6: tourist attraction.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Just to bring it home and Suspenser's gale.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: Part of the current justification for the elk refuge is
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: that it did it reduces they supplemental We're going to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: get to that.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, that's alright, alright, that's all right, jump.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: Before we get Steve, it's hard.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 6: I'd like to move on before before we get to
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 6: the CWD end of this thing. The National elf Refugees
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 6: federally managed. Why the state of Wyoming also has twenty
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 6: one other elk feed grounds in the northwestern part of
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 6: the state. Now, the it's the same reasoning to have
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 6: these things prevent large scale winter starvation, maintain large elk
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 6: populations and associated hunting opportunity, reduce conflict with ranch a
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 6: ranch lands.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 9: Like haystacks, livestock feed.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 6: Reducing transmission of brucellosis between elk and cattle, and to
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 6: support tourism and wildlife viewing. People like c w D,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 6: like scientists have been warning about these feed grounds forever
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 6: as far as what seed, as far as CWD is concerned,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 6: But the State of Wyomings kind of painted themselves into
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 6: a corner with this supplemental feeding, and they acknowledged that
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 6: without these feed grounds, Northwest Wyoming would likely support fewer elk,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 6: and the distribution of those elk would would shift substantially,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 6: they'd go other places. But again, like researchers have been
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 6: warning about this because on these feed lots, elk feed
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 6: nose to nose.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 9: Could yeah, got it up.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 6: They feed nose to nose along feed lines, and they're
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 6: they're concentrated like unnaturally and unnaturally dense concentrations during the winter. Additionally,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 6: these the prions from CWD they accumulate, and the soil
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 6: and elk are repeatedly using the same contaminated grounds you're
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 6: after year.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: So the guy that invented the word says Prions.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 9: Okay, that's good enough for me, told me man more Heffelfinger.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 6: So in May of this year, wildlife officials like confirmed
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 6: the first known CWD positive elk on the National Elk Refuge.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 6: It was an adult cow that was euthanized. CWD had
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 6: been detected in the broader like Jackson area surrounding the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 6: refuge in twenty twenty, but this was the first time
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 6: it was detected like on the actual elk refuge. On
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 6: other Wyoming feed grounds there's twenty one of them, but
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 6: Scab Creek, Dell Creek, Horse Creek, Black Butte, Muddy Creek.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 6: Cwd's been detected on all of those feed grounds within
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 6: the last.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 9: Couple of years.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 6: So, like what, You've got a situation where it's like
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 6: pretty obvious that concentrating these elk in small areas, a
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 6: bunch of them over the winter and feeding them supplementally,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 6: like artificially feeding them is causing a problem with CWD.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Well, you you don't know that because you have CWD.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Like Montana doesn't do feed. Montana doesn't allow.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: Bait, right, you can't bait in the state, and the
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: state doesn't feed. But state's got CWD popping up all
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: over the place. Okay, So I'm just saying it's like you,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: you can't say that the only place that it's occurring.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 9: I didn't say it's the only place.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: And I'll be saying it's leading to problems. We don't know,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: you don't really know.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: You can you can guess, But where is it coming
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: from and all the other places?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 7: Oh well, I think the safest gas, right, Like, we
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 7: can throw the origin out if it's here now and
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 7: this continues, Yes, this is going to be a breeding
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 7: situation for the spread of CWT.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: I would expect to see.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with you there, I would expect to
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: see a higher rate of transmission. But I'm saying, like,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's birthing. It's not birthing the disease.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 9: It's not, But it's contributed.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 6: It's likely going to contribute to the spread of the
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 6: disease at a much faster rate that they're worried about,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 6: more persistent environmental contamination, so in the soil and vegetation
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 6: things like that. They certainly think it's going to cause
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 6: higher term higher long term infection rates could lead to
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 6: increased mortality and long term population declines.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 9: In some some elk herds.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 7: Plus it's got close proximity to high fence operations. They
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 7: have terrible records of keeping animals within the high fence.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 6: So like there's been Wyoming is not going to close
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 6: these feed lots.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 9: They're just not going to do it.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 6: Why because pened in thirty years they need to They're
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 6: they're kind of in a situation where they need to
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 6: maintain these elk numbers, right, there's an expectation for it.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 6: So the plan is expanded surveillance and testing, having hunters
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 6: turn in more animals, increase monitoring things like that.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then you just know, okay, yeah, they're.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 6: Just like I'm just telling you that's their plan.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: That's not that's just like being like hey, uh you know,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: it'd be like, hey, you know my kids dying of
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: a fever.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm gonna keep taking this temperature. Sure, just
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: eradicate them, keep taking this temp.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 7: Or the states known that this was like an inevitable
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 7: situation forever, and so it's like what did the state?
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 7: Has there been any.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like you're going to keep taking his temp.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: But are you bringing them to the doctor?
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: No, it's monitoring temp yeah.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 9: I mean they don't have an answer.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 6: Their their their answer is to maintain feeding operations and
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 6: do what they can to slow disease transmission, whatever that means.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 7: And so long as we don't feed it.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like they're gonna put up a sign please elk. Yeah,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: don't go super close to each other while eating the
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: food we put out for you.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: I listen. I just want to clarify. I totally coming
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: at me pretty hard.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I was hoping you'd have a better plan.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not coming at you. I don't know the answer.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know that the answer is to stop doing it.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: It's just I don't know. I seem like I'm like,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: I want to clarify. I'm just a curious guy sitting Yeah.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know the right answer, I think, and.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 6: From my perspective, the answer would be to maybe slowly
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 6: wean them off of this situation. They starve to.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: Death if they just quit feeding them.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 5: Some would, some would for sure.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, you've got like an unnaturally high concentration of animals.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: It'd be like if we quit making GMOs, you're gonna
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: have tons of humans starved to death.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: Eventually, you won't need a man think about.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 6: A severe winter where there would be natural winter kill
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 6: like around here. Down there, they're like loving life, it
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 6: doesn't matter how severe the winner.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: Is has some images here that are very real, but
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: they look like photoshop because it's just such a ridiculous
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: amount of help in one space.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 6: There have been efforts, lawsuits to try and get these
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 6: feed lots.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 9: Closed, but they've failed.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: So you know, when I come from hunters, does it
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: come from animal rights people?
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 6: You know, I think it's more along the animal rights
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 6: end of things, but I'd have to look into it.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 7: No, I mean on this disease thing, like because Idaho
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 7: feeds on occasion and in certain areas, and they have
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 7: different they have feeding programs that that started when elk
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 7: from Yellowstone and Jackson Hole were brought to Idaho to
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 7: re establish herds that are that are still going. They're
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 7: arguing meant those like this polls elk on their migration
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 7: route away from like population centers and avoids some human conflicts.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 7: So it's not just purely the food aspect. It's it's
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 7: like manipulating where animals go in the winter.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 6: Sure that helps to prevent conflicts with ranching operations, but.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 7: I mean, hunters have been saying this is going to
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 7: bring disease to the herd.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 6: Some hunters, but for a lot I think there's also
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, say to Wyoming says it too. It's like
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 6: we're sustaining these large elk populations and that sustains great
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 6: hunting opportunity for sure.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: But do you want a lot of burger that you're
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: paranoid about or less burger that you're not paranoid?
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 7: But there is an unbelievable amount of elk in that country.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 5: It is wild.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's where we're not during It was bound
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 6: to happen and it did, is basically where we're at.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Brody.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 5: Yep, Thanks Brody.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 8: Back on Randall's weekly Bad Stuff Happening public Lands Beat today,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 8: we were going to talk about the rescinding of the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 8: public Lands Rule. Then we moved on to certified public
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 8: Lands Transfer guy confirmed as BLM director. Then we're going
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 8: to talk about the House bill to repeal the Roadless Rule,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 8: which goes to committee on Thursday. But we've got another
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 8: bad idea to cover, and this one is a bill.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 8: It's a proposed bill that's originating in Republican Senator Bill
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 8: Castey's office to transfer roughly twenty four percent of the
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 8: Kisachie National Forest to Louisiana's Grant Parish, which is louisiana
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 8: equivalent of a county. Specifically, the land would go to
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 8: the local school board and the Police Jury, which again
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 8: there's all kinds of different names in Louisiana for things,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 8: but that's basically the county commissioners and the Police Jury,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 8: to their credit, immediately voiced its opposition to the bill
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 8: because they saw how deeply unpopular it was. Again, this
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 8: is just a draft bill as far as I know,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 8: it hasn't been introduced, and I always think that's important
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 8: when you're talking about legislation to look at where it
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 8: is because you'll see, you know, you'll read headlines that say,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 8: like the Democrats and whatever want to ban pants, or
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 8: the Republicans want to do this, but it's oftentimes just
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 8: some whack job who's written a bill in their office
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 8: and has no you know, chance of passing. So just
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 8: that disclaimer out there. But the bill, this bill would amend.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: I do, I do love a bill to ban pants,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: just to see how just I love that bill.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and then you can go back, you can go
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 8: back to your wackadoo donors and tell them, you know,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 8: I'm fighting the fight against pants.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 8: But this, this bill would amend the Internal Revenue Club.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 8: I wasn't even thinking about like alternatives. This would build
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 8: and support alternative lower half of your body garments.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of just yeah. But no, that's why.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 8: It's important to have like a very careful legislative staff.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 8: But this would this would direct it would amend the
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 8: Internal Revenue Code of nineteen eighty six and direct the
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 8: Secretary of Agriculture to forfeit all rights, title and interest
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 8: to all portions of the Kassachi National Force contained within
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 8: the borders of Grant Parish, which is about one hundred
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 8: and forty thousand acres of public lands.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 8: This so the bill would just say that goes to
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 8: the county. They would also get the buildings, the vehicles,
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 8: the equipments, and all.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: The records of the Forest Service.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 8: The the I guess the justification for this is that
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 8: Bill Casty claims that this is the National Force is
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 8: hindering economic development in Grant Parish, but.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: He just got his nut slap by Trump so bad
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: he did he.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 8: Did, so I think this I think this hit the
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 8: headlines like the day after.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: That's why everybody knows who he is now.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 6: So his logic behind this is economic development.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: Yes for that land.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 8: Yes yes, And and hat tip to the Louisiana Wildlife
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 8: Federation kind of rang the alarm about this, And then
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 8: I saw the story from Travis Hall at Field and
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 8: Streby does a great job of covering all kinds of
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 8: public land stuff. But the Louisiana Wildlife Federation issued a statement.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 8: I mean, one thing that they point to that's interesting
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 8: is they're tucking this public land transfer into a big
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 8: tax and economic development bill. And so the Louisiana Wildlife
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 8: Federation is pointing, like, what you're doing here is reducing
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 8: the visibility of public lands policy decision making by tucking
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 8: it into this other you know, like like.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Burying the pants ban, like in the pants ban and
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: some complex things. So some guy one day realizes in
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: the bottom of it it says, oh, no, no more pain.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no more pants, no more pants.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 8: So you know, you got to read these things carefully.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 8: But they they have raised the rang the alarm, raised
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 8: the red flag over this. I don't necessarily know where
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 8: this is going, if at all, because it's a.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: Very very early stage.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 8: But again it's just like, man, these like there are
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 8: people out there who want to do this stuff. It's
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 8: not a boogey man, it's not a it's not a
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 8: you know, far off like there's people hidden away in
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 8: back rooms who are never actually going to do this stuff.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 8: Like his office is working on this and this as
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 8: far as I understand just from reading about it, like
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 8: this seems like a treasure of our public land system.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 8: It was clear cut and then established in the nineteen
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 8: thirties under the Weeks Act, where we get a lot
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 8: of our eastern National Forests and it's it's got a
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 8: lot of.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: Long leaf pine, a lot of wildlife. There's there's fishing, hunting, camping.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 8: It's like a prime recreation destination in the central part
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 8: of the state.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: When the US Mints did a quarter dedicated to the
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: Kasachi National Forest, all they put on there is a
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: wild turkey.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I brought that.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Quarter in.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 6: If this is one of the still got.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 7: It Louisiana where you know how you can never kill
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 7: white tails on public land Louisiana.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know that.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, people talk about.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 8: And from what I read briefly it's like known for
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 8: big Deer, it's known for big Bucks.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 6: Does Cassidy have a history of.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 8: Not that I know of, Not that I know of.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 8: It's it seems like it's kind of out of left field.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 8: I mean, he's really known as I believe he's a physician,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 8: and so he's really a lot of his controversy lately
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 8: has been his relationship with like RFK. Voted to confirm RFK,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 8: and then he's come out against a lot of the
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 8: stuff that's happening over there.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: But I appreciate the I appreciate his Maverick nonpartisan streak.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, the kind of going your own way
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: and not taking, not taking, you know, not listening to
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: the boss man for everything you do.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But this is dumb. Yeah, and he
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: knows it's dumb.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 8: And it's and a lot of the guys who are
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 8: demonstrating this nonpartisan not bowing to the boss behavior the
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 8: ones that are on their primary So a big picture,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 8: like you know, we have the Forest Service overhaul, they're
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 8: going to be closing research stations in Louisiana. The roadless rule,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 8: as I said, is there's now a House bill to.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: Rescind it.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 7: So not only rescind it, but make it mandatory that
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 7: we the people, the taxpayer, pay for new roads.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so just there's there's arrows coming at the National
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 8: Forest from all sides right now.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 4: One of the last things I did last night, I
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: was Broby ten pm, I called Zinky and Downing left
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 4: the message about that nice because I received get another
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: email from BH. I was like, all right, I'm doing it.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't be your phone lady. It's bad for your sleep. Okay.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 6: I don't understand what his incentive is to do anything now,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 6: Like you know.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: No, I think this will yeah, this will go away,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: so fun to talk about. So we can do a
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: good news story when he when it doesn't go anywhere.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: That's true, that's true.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, reporting from the Michigan uh deer desk. We're really
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 4: bouncing around the country today.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: That's intentional good. It's a programming decision.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 4: This one, I figure is gonna be a real challenge
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: because you and I have so much attachment nostalgia to
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 4: the story that uh not me.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: I grew up north of the Lion, dude.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 4: I know exactly, which is why I feel like you're
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 4: gonna have to weigh.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 5: In your side.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: So big news out of Michigan. It's beca coming a
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 4: one buck state and has a limited eliminated their southern
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 4: shotguns zone, meaning the entire state is now open to
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 4: rifle used for deer hunting. So for those that you
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 4: don't know, you can throw up our little map there
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 4: and uh this I took this from on ex Thanks guys,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 4: but h zone one there is the upper Peninsula, and
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: you could use a rifle up there. When I was
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 4: a kid. In the lower Peninsula, you can use a
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 4: rifle above that line that cut cuts through the middle
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 4: where Steve was. Below that line, we had to use shotguns.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: Reason being when I when I grew up. The reason
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 4: being for that, they always told us, is because it's
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 4: a highly more highly populated area. And if you had
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 4: a real rifle, high powered rifle, and you're shooting a deer,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: you're more likely to shoot out of the woods across
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 4: the county road and into some school.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 9: We got the same rule right here in the valley.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: They put a hole through old Lady Burns's house or something.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I asked, uh, Brent Rudolph, who's Michigan's deer elk
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: and mooseman specialist moment.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: Their deer specialist is named Rudolph.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 4: I know I didn't bring that up with him, but yeah,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 4: a hard time not bringing that up.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: But I didn't want to take too much of his
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't bring it up. Uh huh.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 7: He always know, you know, when he has a good idea.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: Better name than half a finger ouch ouch ouch.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 5: Not only.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 4: Uh, what was it for the safety thing? But that
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 4: rule was implemented back when we didn't have as many deer.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that that was part of the motivation.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So part of the motivation was like, hey, so
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 4: that every deer that comes out on the you know,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 4: back crop field doesn't get whacked, let's limit weapons a
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 4: little bit so that you're back then we were limited
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 4: to fifty yards. Now shotgun shoot two hundred yards.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Well, they went straight wall cart right, and.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 4: So recently and a few years ago, Michigan, along with
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 4: other states too, allowed straight walled cartridges. Was just like
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 4: inching towards going to high power. But not quite Again,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 4: Brent told me, he's like, yeah, we actually don't have
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 4: data that proves that using high powered rifle cartridges is
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 4: any less safe than using the shotguns.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: So as a move to but it's kind of like,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: you know, like Bob Dylan said, I.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: Don't need a weatherman to tell away the wind blows,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: meaning you might not have data.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: But come on.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 6: Plus, I think you can also make rules like come
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 6: on to keep the people that aren't hunters like to
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: kind of passify them be like.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: But of course it does because imagine the extreme. Imagine
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: he made an infinity an infinity round. It just went
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: around the world and around the world and around the world.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: It's going to hit something. Yeah, I don't think it'd
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: make it around the world once. No, I think I
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: hit something.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So back then they didn't want to kill uh
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 4: people or too many deer. Now Michigan is we've covered this.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 4: I think it was it last year or two years
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 4: ago that they wrote a letter to Michigan's sports people
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 4: and said, folks, you guys have to kill dose. They
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 4: didn't do it. So this is a step towards making
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 4: it easier. They're hoping it's small, incremental, but a way
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 4: to like less barriers. Right, you don't have to have
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 4: another you know, a shotgun to shoot slugs to shoot
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 4: a deer, right, you just have your thirty six because
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 4: you hunt somewhere where you can use that.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 6: All those people are gonna have to go buy rifles now.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: I got I got a text message from guys walk
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: the other morning. He said he's getting out the old
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: thirty thirty six and he says, you've never seen a
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: run on.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 5: Animal like you see, that's amazing.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: He's right, he's right.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I think that that's it's a good thing.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: It's like simplifying the whole thing.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: I support it. I support it. Yeah.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: But what's funny about it is because I always thought
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: it was a safety issue, and it's not like there's
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: less houses now.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: Than when I was a kid. Definitely not so.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: But hearing that it was an efficacy issue as well,
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: trying to reduce efficacy, I see. But I also think
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: that it felt unnecessary.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a big thing for me when we
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 4: used to then go over to hunt, Wisconsin, when I
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: used to actually get to hunt with a bolt action rifle,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: It's like, it was very exciting.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's why we drove to Kentucky.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 4: Right, because you guys were a shotgun state. Yeah, Ohio
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 4: is going to come back into my reporting here shortly
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 4: for the second part. Lovely, So, if you guys don't
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 4: have any further questions about being able to use a
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 4: rifle across the state of miss I'll move on.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: No, if you're in southern here's the If you're in
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: southern Michigan, it's game on this fall. They could be
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: way across Old Lady Burns his field and you can
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: still shoot.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: I'd like to move forward to the part about Ohio.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 7: Well, I think valid info here too. Just it's not
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 7: particular to this, but it is in the context of Michigan.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 7: Michigan is one of the states where big game hunting
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 7: is on the decline, fewer licensed deer hunters or fewer
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 7: people hunting deer.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 3: I would like to know how Mit Trumpaula feels about this.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: Is he not going to tell you?
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 3: Is he zoned two or zone three?
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: He's zoned two? Hes zoned two? You know what I heard?
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: I heard a rumor there. Now I want to.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 5: Just I'll say it.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not trafficking in rumors, dude. Okay, another big change.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 4: This one's going to go and effect him twenty twenty seven,
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 4: some folks thought it was going to go in effect
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: this year, it's.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: Not the case.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: In twenty to twenty seven, Michigan is going to a
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 4: one buck uh limit, just.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: Capped one buck one buck? How many bucks are allowed
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: there now? Two? Oh?
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 4: They're offering up two different licenses. This is for the
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: Lower Peninsula the Upper Peninsula. Nothing changes. I didn't write
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 4: down the details of that, but whatever the rules were
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 4: up there, they're staying the same. Lower Peninsula though. Now
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 4: you can buy if you are so cheap that you
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 4: can only afford a single deer license, you can buy.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 4: You can buy one that's a buck only tag and
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 4: it's for one antler deer with an antler point restriction
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 4: of three points on one side. The other license that
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 4: they're offering for the Lower Peninsula is a combo and
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 4: that's one antler deer of any size and one antlerless deer.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 4: They're hoping that this is definitely one hundred percent. Rent said,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 4: it's like it helps revenue that they will buy the
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 4: more expensive combo in the because they want to have
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 4: that option and to not have to shoot an antler
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 4: point restricted buck.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 4: Again, this came about, Uh, there's there's there was a
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 4: surge of of the local hunting community. And and again
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 4: they every people that I talked to, mostly Mark Kenyon
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 4: and Brent Rudolph, feel like it's a small subset of
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 4: the hunting community, but like the quality deer management, more
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 4: people that are into shooting bucks have been like raising
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 4: a stink about, like hey, like let's change something so
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 4: you can get a better you know, age class of
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 4: bucks rolling around in Michigan. And this was proposed other
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 4: states around like Ohio, UH Indiana. UH was Kentucky one too,
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 4: remember now, but definitely Ohio and UH Indiana have gone
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 4: that way and it has helped their their structure point
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 4: restriction right, so they went Antler point restrictions. I don't
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 4: know they had one buck state too. Yeah, And so
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 4: saying there, man Mark was telling me that they're that
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 4: guy that started in with the Antler point restrictions. Like
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 4: that guy had to get out of wildlife management.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: We were trying to get him on the show, but
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to him.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 9: He was a professor at Penn State.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: When I was here, we were trying to get on
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 4: The threats and everything was Gary Gary Gary Selena Zito
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 4: recommended recommended.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 5: His relative works for wild cheap founders.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 9: But he likened things around in Pennsylvania.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: Oh big time.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 4: I think now he's like he's he's they applaud his
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 4: work and his ideas.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: Garyl Yeah, what what do you say he didn't want
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 5: Just a little bit later, I think he may have
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 5: been for Gary.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 6: He may have ended up working in the state of
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 6: Wisconsin after.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I think you don't.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 5: Think so whole job is that?
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: No, Well, here's the deal.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 4: It's like why, uh you asked why? Like why the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 4: Michigan DNR really care about that?
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: Like that's not necessarily So they have a small group
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 4: of people that are like, hey, we want you know,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: better bucks, and like we all know those. These wildlife
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 4: agencies have to not only manage the wildlife, but they
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 4: have to manage the people that enjoy the wildlife in
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 4: the In the name of managing the wildlife, dn R
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 4: wants Michigan hunters to shoot dose bad So again, this
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 4: is a way they're hoping that like the guys that
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 4: used to just shoot the first buck that they saw
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 4: are now and and then hold out for like the
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 4: big buck and never shoot a dough. Now they're hoping
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 4: that if you're in the field, you only have one
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: buck tag and you like to shoot deer, you like
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 4: to have a couple of deer in the freezer. That's
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 4: gonna this is going to hopefully promote antler lists harvest.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: I don't buy it.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 6: I don't.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah again, they don't.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 4: Everybody, everybod He's clear that if it's anything, it's going
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 4: to be incremental. The last thing I will leave you with.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: And this is interesting because I hadn't really thought about this,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 4: and Brent said this is that if they don't Michigan's
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 4: hunters don't start killing those, hunting as a management tool
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: might become archaic and something else. They will find another
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 4: way to manage this deer population if it can't be
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 4: done through hunters understood.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 5: So it's like a.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 4: Real It's just I think it's a serially serious call
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 4: out to all hunters around that like.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Some some industry is going to come in and be like,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: we'll take it from here, boys. Yeah.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And then the anti can use it as like, hey,
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 4: you guys weren't doing your job that you guys always
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 4: said you're going to do. You guys are always you know,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 4: talking about being you know, balance of nature exactly, and.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 7: All that I'd be I'd use it as an incentive.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 7: Just have the ability to be like, this is going
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 7: to be nothing but brought worst, like bang dough off
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 7: to the processor, brought worst. This thing is gonna be
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 7: nothing but sandwich meat.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 5: Here we go.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: You know what I do if I wanted to increase
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: harvest is I have like those you know, little sausage
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: making kits, the dry seasoning kit that comes staple to.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: Your deer tab.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: So when you're sitting there and you're blind, you just
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: got your hand in your pocket, you're feeling that broad seasoning.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 6: You just gotta wonder why they don't why that earn
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 6: a buck.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: Thing deeply unpopular, I know, but they're actually.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 4: They're they're doing a test in a certain part of
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 4: the Southern Peninsula where there it's going to be an
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 4: earn a buck for a second buck tag.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin got into earn a buck and it proved unpopular
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: with with.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: You know, not everybody, but it was unpopular with the masses. Yeah,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: the masses.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of economic drivers, right Like most people
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 7: are making it out for a weekend at at most,
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 7: and could this incentivize people to go out and get
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 7: a dough one weekend and then try to find a
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 7: buck another weekend, and they're spending more money around the counties. Yeah,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 7: it's just surprising to me because in our my camp
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 7: where I grew up hunting in Michigan, like we pounded
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 7: does and so to know that.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: About getting a dough. Take, Yeah, so the only jeers
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: you've got a dog on.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 7: Twenty percent of.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: Michigan hunters will kill a dough. It's like, who are
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: these guys?
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was cooked as day as long. But we
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: didn't know about that kind of thing at the time.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: You know, everybody to put their mom in for a dough.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 6: Oh, yes, the thing in Pennsylvania here.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: I got a dough tag, won't be my mom.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 7: I guided some Michigan hunters for black Bear in Idaho
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 7: spring black Beard jillion years ago, and they were mule
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 7: ear does running across the road and they were like
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 7: yanking on the door handles, being like, can't meet, can't meet,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 7: And I couldn't. I was, you know, I was like
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 7: it's spring and I'm like I couldn't quite there. Well,
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 7: you know, can't meet. It's like you just shoot a
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 7: dove to have a camp Oh.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: Man, you talk about that. You go to your camp
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: first and you do a shoot a dope like pre
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: like a preseason.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 7: Just to get things started the right way.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: Oh everybody, please subscribe to the Meat Eater podcast YouTube channel.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: Okay if you want more news and subscribe to our show.
• 1:58:31
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• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: and you turn your phone on.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.