Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 21: De’Vion Harmon | The Player’s Perspective—Inside Impactful Coaching

Transcript

EP 21: De’Vion Harmon | The Player’s Perspective—Inside Impactful Coaching · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

0:00
He said that I don't know what happened, but I don't know what
0:03
happened. That's like a light bulb went
0:04
off like and it changed me for literally forever.
0:08
Sometimes you get into that space where we just want someone
0:10
to tell us how good we are, but I feel like that's for us to
0:13
remind ourselves if I'm gonna let money get in the way of
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that, like no, because the money is not long enough anyway.
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So I'm deliberations are way more the perspective is more I
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can take this to how I parent my son, you know, like it's way
0:25
more important now to go where you're wanted and needed.
0:29
Find some of this money is taking kids away from the
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process of being becoming great and and loving the game.
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You got to love it. The money will always come.
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Welcome to the Strength and Numbers Podcast.
0:43
I'm your host, John Bloom, and today's guest is Davion Harmon.
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Davion played this past year in the NBA G League with the Mad
0:48
Ants. In college, he played at
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Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas Tech, which is where I first got to
0:53
coach him. As coaches, we often go to each
0:55
other for perspective, but I think it's really important
0:57
tonight just stop there, but to also get feedback and insight
1:00
from different viewpoints right from from from our athletes.
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That's why I want to get started having some athletes on here to
1:07
get their perspective on things that us coaches talk about all
1:09
the time. And I couldn't think of a better
1:11
person to start with. The Debian who has been around a
1:14
ton of top coaches and programs and just has an incredible
1:18
credible perspective. We dive into what type of
1:20
coaching helps in the most, how he'd build a roster and handle
1:23
NIL if he were a college coach right now, what he would change
1:26
about his development if he could go back in time and much
1:29
more. Enjoy the episode.
1:30
Dave young man, I'm I'm pumped to have you here.
1:33
You know, you're you're the first non coach for our first
1:36
real athlete that's been on this podcast, which I'm really
1:38
excited to kind of get your perspective on things right.
1:40
We, you know, as coaches, we talk about stuff all the time,
1:43
but I think given a different perspective, especially from
1:45
Someone Like You that's been around, been around a lot of
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really good coaches, a lot of really good programs around
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basketball a long time. I think it's going to be really
1:52
cool to get your viewpoint on a lot of things.
1:55
Man, I'm, I'm grateful for you being here.
1:57
Now I'm excited man, appreciate you having me.
1:59
Yeah. So it's real quick.
2:00
Can you just get a little background just on who you are
2:02
for people that don't know who you are?
2:03
Yeah, name is Davey Harmon. I feel like I I don't want to
2:07
talk about basketball first. I'll talk about the person more.
2:10
I think I was raised in a two parent household.
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Guys blessed me with two parents under the same roofs.
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You know, me and my brother have always been really lucky to have
2:19
that. Part of the reason the way I am
2:21
today is because I've had, you know, a dad that's always been
2:25
there that always came home and then have a mom that just
2:28
continues still to this day that works her butt off and tries to
2:32
do so much for our family. It has just been, you know,
2:35
trying to, you know, being a Big Brother.
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I have a brother that I have. I have a brother named Deuces in
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his last year going to his last year at going to his last year
2:42
at SMU for footballs. Obviously we're an athletic
2:47
family and have a cousin that plays point guard at the
2:52
University of Texas on the women's side.
2:55
Have like a close family friend, I would say call my cousin who
3:00
who's trying to get into the NFL, Noah Kane, who played at
3:04
Penn State and played at LSU. So sports run deep in our
3:07
family. I went to went to went to Ding
3:09
Dyer High School didn't win a state championship, but we
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should have we should have we should we should have at least
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two. But yeah, I got to play with
3:17
with Jalen Wilson, who's with the Brooklyn Nets now manager
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when we were eight years old. I'm a guy Jacoby Coles, the
3:24
trade Arthur who plays who plays overseas.
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So a lot of talent. I've always been around a lot of
3:28
talent That's a was blessed to have get recruited got recruited
3:34
by Oklahoma committed to Oklahoma went there for two
3:36
years end up transferring after that after my sophomore year
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going to Oregon for one year and then kind of realized that it
3:44
wasn't really for me that that up there in north in Northwest
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and the Pacific Northwest. So came back home to Texas went
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to love again. That's for me.
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And you started to, to to form a bond and I'm just blessed that
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we've been able to keep our connection.
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That was three years ago. So it was rare that you share,
4:01
keep a relationship with coaches and teammates after after the
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time there is over. And so I'm just very grateful
4:07
that we've been able to keep them.
4:08
Yeah, man. No, I mean we had a, we had a
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great workout this morning. Now that that was awesome.
4:12
You know, as you talk about being around a lot of talent,
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obviously a lot around a lot of how little programs they talk
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about, you know, playing at Tech, playing at OU, playing at
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Oregon and now playing in the G League, you've been on a lot of
4:23
good coaches too. What have you figured out about
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how how you like to be coached as an athlete and what helps you
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the most as an athlete? Definitely, you know, being
4:33
coached hard, kind of learned. No, I've always coached hard
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from from my dad growing up. But I would say like the best
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thing is if like a coach doesn't like kind of if he doesn't lie
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to you kind of thing, you know, if he just kind of shoots it
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straight, you know, and there's a good communication between the
4:50
player and coach, you know, sometimes that can be difficult
4:53
and it can be hard. But if you can have that level
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of trust, you know, in that relationship is going to go.
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I probably get to go. It's going to be good for the
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coach, but I think it even be better for the player because,
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you know, the coaches did the coaches terms are game times.
5:08
We have to, you know, try to just, you know, pick their
5:11
brains, see what they want. But I feel like, you know, a
5:14
coach kind of letting you be a little bit free.
5:16
Obviously everybody's a role, plays a role.
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You know, you do what you do play your strengths, you know,
5:22
but allowing for a player to make mistakes and not like they
5:26
make a mistake, one or two mistakes or even 3 and like it's
5:29
like over, you know, that's it's kind of hard to play like that.
5:33
You know when you play free, you play.
5:34
You play way better than you probably even thought you would
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play. Yeah, it's definitely, it's
5:39
definitely hard to play when you're looking over your
5:40
shoulder at the bench every time you make a mistake and and
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worrying that if you miss, you're going to go out, then
5:45
you're going to stop taking the shot.
5:46
Right? Exactly.
5:48
Yeah. And as you talk about, you know,
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coaches, right, being being truth tellers, right, I think
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it's so important to have truth tellers around you in your
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circle. And I think one of the the one
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of the best at doing that is when we were around Darby Rich,
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I'm at tech. And with with that being said,
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like for you as a player, what are the things that are maybe
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hard for you to hear that people like tell you the truth about,
6:12
but like, you know, you need to hear them, even though like you
6:14
don't like it in the moment of hearing it.
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I mean, there's a thing it's like, I mean, for instance, like
6:19
way you're hearing stuff from like front offices and
6:22
everything and you're going to the offseason, you have these
6:24
exit meetings. And to tell you the truth and
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for me, it's like, you know, keep working on the three, keep
6:30
working on the three. For me, it's all been confident.
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So that's what I'm doing when I'm getting into these pickup
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runs. I'm working, I'm shooting.
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I know I can do this, but I'm going to do this so I can, you
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know, get that confidence and get that rhythm.
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And I'm five on five play. I think that's in like that's
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vital. Yeah, is the truth.
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Sometimes we don't want to hear it because it could, you know,
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they may not. Some teams may not want you
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because of this. So but you have to hear it and I
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think it makes me better. So I think I've this offseason
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for sure just been trying to listen to the feedback and
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really and really use it and not kind of be like, oh, OK, here
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they go. They're just trying to find
7:04
something else that's just like a nice.
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It's not a good mental mentality to go to that because then
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you're not going to listen and you're not going to fully work
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on that. So been trying to really just
7:13
hone in on that and it's been going good so far.
7:16
No, it's awesome. Like I actually heard, I heard
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kind of someone talk about the other day where is like
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beginners or or like average people, like they want to be
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told they're good and like be assured that confidence and like
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the people that are really good, they want to be told like how
7:30
they can get better. Like they're not worried about
7:33
being told, OK, you're doing great.
7:34
Like they want to know like what can I do better?
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Like you're saying, like what do I need to do, like to get that
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contractor to be the player I need to be?
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Like what do you think of that statement?
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I mean, I think it's true. That's why I even me, I
7:46
sometimes we get into that space where we just want someone to
7:48
tell us how good we are, you know?
7:50
Yeah. But I feel like that's for us to
7:51
remind ourselves, because if we don't remind ourselves, then how
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do we expect someone else to remind us how good we are, you
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know? So yeah, I believe that you and
8:00
you have to remind yourself something.
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Like something I do to remind myself is I'll pull up old
8:04
videos of me of playing good or go reminisce and some of those
8:08
games remember and still that confidence.
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But no, like, OK, I do need to work on this if I want to get
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that next contract. You know, like that's the goal
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is to always keep improving, keep evolving.
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And for us to keep improving and to evolve, we have to adjust to
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the game. And so I've learned that, you
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know, I have to adjust my game, you know, like instead of
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instead of a couple, I like to shoot the mid range, maybe
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instead of take some of those away.
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And then I, I, you know, work and, and we're shooting the
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three, you know, getting all the way in making a assist.
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So just adjusting the more people that I feel like the
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more, the more people that the more people can adjust to
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different situations, I think they'll last longer.
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For sure. And you know, like you're saying
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about like you can't rely on other people to like tell you're
8:49
good or feel that because like you kind of need this internal
8:52
conference in yourself. Because if you're relying on
8:54
other people, like when it's going well, like, OK, you going
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to have social media telling you're great.
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You have people telling you're great when it goes bad, they're
9:02
not going to be there. And if if that's what you're
9:03
relying on, like what are you going to do in the bad times?
9:05
Like you got to have something internal inside you.
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Like, no matter what, you know who you are, you know how you're
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going to show up, no matter people are talking about you,
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they're not talking about you. Like whatever it is, like you
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determine you and you get that confidence inside you.
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I agree. That's 100 percent, 100%.
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You know, shift a little bit and with your experience in college,
9:27
multiple programs right now, the, the, the landscape's
9:30
changing a lot, right? With the transfer portal in NIL,
9:32
if you were a head coach right now, oh, like how, how are you
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with rosters turning over almost fully?
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Like how are you putting the team together?
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That's like going to come together when you got a bunch of
9:45
individuals coming from different situations rather than
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just like, you know, splintering and any kind of people having
9:51
their different things they want versus like, OK, we're going to
9:54
come together even though we might just have nine months and
9:57
then everybody's leaving their separate ways again.
9:59
But like, we're going to the most success we can right now.
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I know the landscape is crazy. Is he way more crazier?
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I thought it was crazy when my last year at Texas Tech, but
10:07
it's crazy now with this lump sum of money that's handed out.
10:11
I think honestly, if I was a head coach, I feel like one of
10:14
the first things that I would first of all build a great
10:16
foundation with coaching staff and coaches, a great support
10:20
staff that I have assistance to where I know they're doing, you
10:22
know, director of player development, director of
10:25
operations, Like everyone's playing a role, Everybody from
10:27
me to the, you know, every person on staff.
10:30
And then I think I would get with them.
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And I was like, yo, we got to find players.
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I thought you have to find players especially.
10:36
And now on this has been through adversity.
10:40
I don't know if the money can't save you when he when you when
10:44
you go through adversity and you got to get yourself out of it.
10:46
You know, so I feel like I will start there when I'm going.
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And I know I know when they go and do in home visits or you're,
10:53
you know, having kids come up, like try to put them in when you
10:57
talk to him, give him examples and then actually see if they've
11:01
been in some real life like adversity moments.
11:04
Ain't gotta be nothing like crazy super adversity, but just
11:07
a little bit and see how like how they've responded because
11:11
that's going to tell a lot. You know, you feel like you want
11:13
somebody on your side won the battle with you who's been
11:15
through adversities because you're going to go through
11:17
adversity in the summer and the workouts.
11:19
You're going to go through adversity during the season.
11:21
You know, games, you know, you're not going to win every
11:24
game or you're going to be down by 20 sometimes and second-half
11:28
like we were against Iowa State, yeah, at Texas Tech and we came
11:32
where we were down 20 something, 25 or something 23.
11:35
It was 23. We came back from down 23.
11:38
Only team to do it. I think we are.
11:40
I think if I, I think we might have been only here to do it,
11:44
maybe one other, but I think we're the only team to do that.
11:47
We came back with two minutes like that.
11:49
That just shows you grit, determination.
11:50
It shows you, it shows you how how we handle adversity.
11:54
So I will start there. Yeah.
11:55
And so, you know, you get your team, you know, so you got a big
11:58
program where there is a like you're saying there's lots of
12:01
money changing hands to get those players in there.
12:03
How do you, how do you, how do you think a program can build an
12:07
environment where that doesn't cause problems in the locker
12:10
room or like, you know, that's not divided by, hey, like this
12:13
guy's getting this much whatever it is and that OK, like people
12:16
are getting what they get. But like we're like, we're not
12:18
worried about that. Like we're still a team here.
12:19
And. I think I'm not the NCAA.
12:21
I think they have to put they have to make like ACBA, kind of
12:25
like the NBA, the NFL, like you got to have a cap.
12:28
But because I will say that there there there's some guys in
12:30
college that you know, the 10th 12 man, I'm not knocking nobody
12:34
but the 10th 12 man on bench is asking for half $1,000,000.
12:38
Yeah, it doesn't really make sense, You know, especially
12:40
coming because I was starting play a lot of minutes.
12:43
We at all three schools. But let's just go back to the
12:45
last year when NIO was really in at tech like started like
12:49
started every game, played a lot of minutes.
12:52
These kids are breaking a bank now you I feel like there has to
12:56
be a cap. Like you have to like know your
12:58
role. The best player gets paid the
13:00
most money, right? That's how it should be.
13:02
But then I don't think the 10th man should be like not that far
13:06
away from the best player has to be a cap and everybody has to
13:09
know the role. I don't think no one.
13:11
I don't think people they you, you, they think so they get this
13:14
money and then they think like they're just like they're
13:16
untouchable almost. And then they can just do
13:18
whatever. And then you can't be worried
13:20
about the next person. You can't count other person's
13:23
pockets. Like that's, I think that's
13:24
what's kind of messing it up there.
13:25
It seems that you're saying my teammate is making two or
13:27
$3,000,000, four mil, whatever. Like that's not about that.
13:30
Like you run your own race, like 3,000,000 a lot of money, half,
13:34
1,500,000 a lot of money, 200 is a lot of money.
13:37
Like you get what you get. And to know, like, you know, I'm
13:40
shooting for more. They want all this at one time.
13:43
You can't have it all at once. I learned that the hard way.
13:46
Yeah. You can't have it all at once.
13:48
And I feel like that will, you know, I feel like that will keep
13:52
'cause I bet that goes in lockers.
13:53
I feel like that some of that will keep some of that out the
13:55
locker room. If everybody knows the role, OK,
13:58
that's the best player. I know he's going to make more
13:59
than me. I'm I'm going to stay with mine
14:01
and I'm going to keep working and maybe I'll get there.
14:04
I think that's. Important.
14:05
Do you think? Like one of the biggest things
14:07
like for the staff when they're recruiting all those players is
14:11
to actually be real about roles rather than if we're if we're
14:15
bringing in 10 people, which that is the case a lot of time
14:18
now it's like all ten of those people think they're coming in
14:20
as a starter or getting starter money.
14:22
It's like if, if everybody likes expectations, some people are
14:25
going to be upset, right. So do you think it comes down to
14:27
OK, like this is actually what? Like this is how we see you fit
14:30
in the program right now? Like obviously you can
14:33
outperform that, but like this is where we see you rather than
14:36
maybe just not addressing it, like just hey, we're bringing
14:39
you in you. They think they're going to
14:40
start and then that causes problems.
14:42
Like that does cause problems. I feel like coaches had to be
14:45
more straight up. I don't want to bet, but like
14:48
from my experience personally, I have like coaches need to be
14:50
more straight up. And then like from the start,
14:54
you know, so then like the kid knows, like, hey, do I should I
14:56
think about going there or should I just look so somewhere
14:58
else? And I think that will keep it
15:00
because then like I know my role and then when I go in, I'm
15:03
asking negotiations with NIL people or whoever.
15:07
I guess now that the the ad leg department can pay the players,
15:10
like you go have those meetings or whatever, you know what
15:13
number you start now you're not saying some number that you
15:15
know, you shouldn't be asking for.
15:17
You know, it's like the NBA, like the best players are making
15:19
the most money. You know, then you got the mid
15:21
tier, then you got the guys that would be like me on, you know,
15:25
rookie on on rookie scale deals. But there's still a lot of
15:28
money. It's still a lot of money.
15:30
Just, you know, I find some of this money is taking kids away
15:32
from the process of being becoming great and and loving
15:35
the game. You got to love it.
15:36
The money will always come. The money will come later.
15:39
I feel like I still truly believe that that's why I'm
15:41
doing this. It will come later.
15:43
You just got to put in the work right now and cherish it, man.
15:46
And the results were dead. I think the results will pay off
15:48
later and pay off later. Yeah, No, I think that that's so
15:51
good because it's like, I think I mean with coaches, with
15:54
players, with really any profession or thing you're doing
15:57
in life, like if you are just focusing like I'm trying to get
16:00
this much money or whatever and that's what's pushing you.
16:01
Like, you're gonna go so much further if you're focused on
16:04
being chasing mastery of whatever craft you're in, and as
16:08
a byproduct of that, you're going to get paid because you're
16:10
so good at. It.
16:12
But if your mind says just on the money, you're not going to
16:14
become a master or whatever it is, or go as far as you could
16:17
have gone. Sir, not at all.
16:19
I agree with you saying it's 100%.
16:21
Enjoy. You got to enjoy this, man.
16:23
It's so much you can get, you get so much more out of it, so
16:26
much perspective out of it. I know.
16:28
But the path I'm going down, it's hard.
16:30
Like I've been down. But I've also been blessed to do
16:32
this and go to three prestigious schools, you know, and to make
16:37
relationships that I wouldn't have made if I wasn't doing
16:39
this. And if I'm gonna let money get
16:41
in the way of that, no, because the money is not long enough
16:44
anyway. So I'm deliberations are way
16:46
more, the perspective is more I can take this to how I parent my
16:49
son, you know. So it's a lot of things that can
16:52
come out of this. No, that's so good.
16:54
OK, So if we're looking at high school players right now, it's
16:58
harder for them to get recruited because so many coach are like,
17:01
I'm I'm getting older kids from the on the transfer portal.
17:03
If you're a high school recruit, like, like what should they be
17:06
doing to try and separate this house and put them in a position
17:09
to get recruited with what the landscape is?
17:12
And like, like, what are the things that maybe they focus on
17:14
that aren't actually as important as they think?
17:17
And some things that they're not focusing on that are way more
17:20
important than they think. Start with the first part
17:22
honestly, I'm gonna say I don't know first, because like when I
17:25
was in school, they didn't have this.
17:27
We you know, you come in, you know, they they want you to to
17:30
play the star, you know, now guys, you know, they're they're
17:32
going to the portal. They do Adams football, you
17:34
know, see here Deon Sanders talk all the time.
17:36
I go to the portal. You know, I love the portal.
17:38
So I mean, it does hurt like high school recruits like
17:42
because you have to be like top high school recruit, you know,
17:45
you can't be like top 30, you can't be at #2530.
17:49
You might get lucky, but you got to be like top three, top five,
17:53
maybe top ten, mate, top ten maybe.
17:55
But outside of that, it's kind of like it's kind of tough now
17:59
because they're going to the post of that.
18:00
That can hurt. So in that way, I'm like, damn,
18:02
because you know, I'd have to go through that and like, you could
18:05
have done all you could have done everything you're supposed
18:07
to do for the most part, you know, and it still happens like
18:10
that because they they have the portal and it's and it's pregame
18:13
and it's open. So I would feel like in this
18:14
point, like it's really, it was vital then, but I think it's way
18:18
more important now to go where you're wanted and needed because
18:22
then you can. When we were when I was coming
18:24
out in 2019, you could go where you're wanted and then you may
18:30
not go where you're like absolutely needed, but you can
18:32
still make it work in a sense. But now with this portal, you
18:35
can't do that no more. And with the money can't do that
18:37
no more. You need to go where not just
18:39
where you're wanted, but where you're needed.
18:41
That would be my advice to a high school crew to go where,
18:44
but more on the side that you're needed instead of wanted.
18:48
Click, everybody wants you, but they may not need you.
18:50
So I would say that for that first part and then next part
18:54
should what they do. My answer is always just to
18:56
work, man, just like hard work. And I feel like that's like that
19:00
gives you the best, that gives you the that gives you the best
19:02
chance to make something happens when you work hard because you
19:05
don't work hard, you have absolutely no shot.
19:07
There could be other things that come involved.
19:10
You know, even if you do work hard, there could be other
19:12
things that come involved. That's that's life that happens.
19:15
Whatever you got to eat, But you can push through those.
19:17
It's just a little adversity, but you control how hard you
19:20
work. That's one thing you can
19:21
control. So I would say to work, work,
19:23
work. And when tough stuff happens,
19:25
some people nowadays, they, they, these coming kids just
19:28
give in. Like, no, you got to keep
19:30
tapping in and you're going to learn a lot about yourself and
19:33
then you never know what can happen.
19:35
I'm saying the football gods will be doing football,
19:37
basketball, tennis, golf, baseball, softball.
19:42
If you truly believe you put in the work, you put in real work,
19:46
and you're consistent, whatever sport you you play, the gods
19:49
will reward you. No doubt.
19:51
I think that's interesting as you talk about like go where
19:54
you're wanted and needed. Because I think like if I'm, if
19:58
I'm in a position right now as a crew, like I would much rather
20:03
let's say pick like a mid major that really wants me, then go to
20:07
like a maybe I got a power 5 offer and I'm going to go sit
20:10
the bench. At first, it's like you go to
20:13
mid major, you get a play, you get it.
20:14
I, I think you can add to that, go to a place where you're going
20:16
to be prioritizing your development versus just kind of
20:20
cast off, go play, get developed through actually getting to
20:25
play. And because that I, I think
20:27
that's huge with development and where they're really
20:31
prioritizing you. And then it's like, then it's
20:33
basically like film. And if you are trying to go to
20:36
the bigger place versus going to the big place, not getting the
20:38
chance at all. And then like you're saying,
20:40
boom, transfer portal, we need to, we don't, we don't know if
20:42
you can do it because we didn't even see anything or give you a
20:45
chance. Now we're going to bring in
20:46
somebody else that's older again.
20:47
So it's like, OK, go somewhere you can play, you're needed,
20:50
you're wanted, you're prioritized, you're developed,
20:52
develop and put up numbers. Then maybe you can go up to
20:55
another level, as long as that's another place that actually is
20:59
going to want you, not just to fill a scholarship for the end
21:02
of the bench. That's I couldn't say it any
21:04
better. Let's let, I mean, that's right
21:06
on the spot. When you when you went through
21:08
your initial recruitment as a high school player, like what
21:14
are some of the things you wish you knew that you know now that
21:17
at that time, you know, obviously it's a brand new
21:19
process for you? Well.
21:20
One time I really I really wish that I took a more time because
21:23
I committed my junior year November of my dream of high
21:26
school and I was not to toot my horn, but I was recruited by so
21:29
many schools. So I wish I would have gave
21:31
other schools more of an opportunity to really recruit me
21:34
harder, you know, and really, really, you know, I can really
21:37
think, think, think out my decision, you know, and I have
21:40
wait a whole nother year, you know, a lot of time to think and
21:43
go on these business and do that.
21:45
But I mean, you don't know what you don't know when that time,
21:49
you know, I mean, I think my dad's the same way.
21:51
Like how how I went through my recruitment and how my brother
21:54
went through my recruitment. It was different.
21:56
I'm just because of the sport, because like he knew how to deal
21:59
with it a little bit more too. He said he says it all the time.
22:01
Sometimes we'll reminisce on we'll go down memory lane and
22:04
we're like, Dang, like, I wish we would have took more time and
22:08
it could have still been going to Oklahoma, you know, it could
22:11
have still been going to Oklahoma, you know, and it could
22:13
be not. We don't know that.
22:14
We never will know that, but we we just wish that we would have,
22:17
you know, took more time. We kind of, we would wish if we
22:21
knew what we do now, take more time, enjoy the process, have
22:24
formed the process, go to these and made.
22:26
There's so many amazing schools out there.
22:28
Go and talk to these coaches, develop a relationship and then
22:31
actually come down to A to a decision, talk about it as we
22:35
talk about it as a family and then make it from there.
22:37
So that's the thing that I wish I would have know more and did
22:41
more, you know, that, you know, I wouldn't change that much, but
22:45
I I would change that, yeah. Did did that change then how you
22:50
viewed it and went through it when you were in the the times
22:52
you were in the portal after kind of seeing that?
22:54
Yeah. I mean, yes, a little bit
22:57
definitely. It just know when you're in the
22:58
portal you don't have as much time as.
23:00
I know it goes. Faster.
23:01
It goes by so fast. You're getting taken.
23:03
Yeah, it goes by so fast and sponsor getting taken and stuff.
23:06
And like you also, you know, you obviously you want to have that
23:08
confidence in yourself, but you can get over recruited.
23:11
Someone else says they're coming first before you.
23:13
They're going to they're not going to say no to that person
23:15
because they want you. You know, none of us are LeBron
23:17
or Michael Jordan or nothing. None of us, you know, so they're
23:19
not doing that. So it was, it was more, I mean,
23:24
I feel like I talked, I talked to a lot of schools.
23:26
Not that first time in the portal, but the second time when
23:29
I left Oregon, I knew where I was.
23:31
I knew where I wanted to go. I I knew I wanted to be closer
23:35
back home. Obviously still had a powerful
23:37
boat at a big at a big time school closer to a little
23:42
closer, definitely a lot closer to home.
23:44
And when I was going through, I was thinking about different
23:47
schools in my head and ones that I started to when I got in the
23:51
proto text car, it was kind of quick.
23:54
I knew I was going to Texas Tech Yeah, I knew it like really, I
23:58
mean off the first conversation I was like, I'm not going to
24:01
play with this. I it's my last year.
24:03
I'm going I'm going to go here. I played them before when I was
24:06
at Oui know the atmosphere there.
24:08
I know, I know a little bit of how they operate just from
24:11
playing them, so I'm gonna make this decision and we'll just see
24:14
how it goes, yeah. Now I feel like, I feel like
24:16
I've seen that like with, with older players, especially like
24:18
grad transfer players, there's a lot more clarity on knowing like
24:21
what you actually care about, what you want versus, you know,
24:24
sometimes in the high school, it's like it's the experience of
24:26
seeing all the cool stuff, the cool visits.
24:28
But OK, once you've been through, it's like, I just need
24:31
to find the best place for me and like my development, my
24:33
future and you, you've been, you've seen the thing you, you
24:36
know what college is like and you can better see, OK, this is
24:39
where I need to be. And I don't need to kind of
24:41
worry about as much of the, the other fluff around that. 1% I
24:44
agree. I think you have a better grasp
24:47
like you said on what's to come and what or what could happen.
24:50
You know it's not you don't need as long as you can make it.
24:53
I know I like, I like you said, I know what I want.
24:55
I don't know how it's going to happen, but I know what I want.
24:58
So I know you know you you don't know what's going to happen to
25:00
what happens. Like for this, you know,
25:02
wherever, when it's time to make that decision and you've done it
25:04
before, you're like, OK, I know what I want, so I'm going to
25:08
make this decision and you have to support your decision.
25:11
Yeah. Now, as you think about going
25:13
from high school to starting as a freshman at OU, like that's,
25:16
that's probably one of the biggest periods of adjustments
25:19
is like high school to college at first, right?
25:20
The pace of the game, just the whole different lifestyle.
25:23
As you think about like for coaches with incoming freshmen
25:26
or people in that transition, big transition phase, like what
25:29
are the the things they can do to help athletes succeed the
25:33
most during those periods of transition or starting as
25:36
freshmen? I think you have to make the
25:38
game like it is in like it is in college.
25:40
Yeah, I think that's the best way to do it because in high
25:45
school, college, for instance, guys can sit in the paint.
25:48
There's no difference in three seconds, right?
25:50
So the space is a little bit condensed, right?
25:53
You got 7, you got 610 seven footers down and they can just
25:56
sit there is their page. And so it may be better for for
26:00
taller guys, but for like guard, for like point guards, you know,
26:03
it's a disadvantage. It's always feel like I think
26:05
like high school, the high school game has to try to make
26:09
it like college. The college had what, 30 seconds
26:10
shot clock? OK, I feel like college, high
26:13
school music. If you don't want to, you ain't
26:14
got any 24 like the NBA or the G.
26:16
You do 30, you know, like college.
26:19
And I feel like you don't have to really change it because I
26:22
feel like quarters is good. I think college should change
26:25
the quarters instead of haves. But I feel like you got you have
26:29
to kind of for it to be still going to be a hard transition.
26:32
But I feel like to lighten up the transition is to try to make
26:35
the game closer to like college. You know, you can't just, you
26:39
know, playing high school, you can just start the ball the
26:42
whole time. That's not going to happen.
26:43
You can't do that. That's how we lost in the
26:45
national, in the championship, in the state championship
26:48
semifinal game to go to state and it was my junior year, like
26:51
they just stalled the ball. You can't do that with no shot
26:53
clock. And so I think that will help
26:56
guys and it will help their game develops when they get to that
26:59
summer. They have to develop till maybe
27:01
the little bit of the speed, but they've already had speed, 30
27:04
second shot clock. You got to play with a good
27:06
pace. You may have to adjust to how
27:08
athletic the guys are, how fast, but you can't.
27:10
You'll adjust to that over time just by, like you said, playing
27:13
and developing. You'll naturally get better.
27:17
Now I definitely seen more high school games this year.
27:19
That's one thing I said every time it's like Texas needs to
27:22
get a, a, a shot clock in high school because sometimes it's
27:25
hard. It's it's hard to watch on the
27:27
defense too. It's like you could have a great
27:28
defensive possession and they just take it back out, reset for
27:31
another plus set or something. It's like, man, in defense, that
27:34
would be a great, you know, 30 seconds right there or in
27:36
college that'd be a great 30 seconds.
27:38
But now in high school, it's like they just, they just reset.
27:41
Playing deepest for two for a minute, 2 minutes, a minute,
27:44
like and then you're like, I mean, you're going to get tired
27:47
eventually. You have a good deep suggestion
27:48
and sometimes you know, they shoot the ball, then it rebound.
27:50
It's like, you know, so it's offense has such an advantage,
27:54
you know, and then the offense is not even that good anyway.
27:56
So I'm like, you got to give deepest the advantage too.
27:58
They know they what gave it. They gave the team no shot, 30
28:03
seconds time to go to the other end.
28:05
Now playing in the G League. Now what?
28:07
What lessons have you learned from being a professional that
28:10
you wish you knew or had as a college or high school player?
28:15
I mean, I don't know, because I feel like you in the G League, I
28:18
feel like it's it's so different in this.
28:20
It has some similarities, but it's so different.
28:22
It's. Like even from how you?
28:25
From my From my. The work or the game?
28:27
But how I approach when it comes to like when it comes to being a
28:30
pro and this is what you do, you have to have like the level
28:33
approach has to be like, I mean, you have to be to the smallest
28:37
detail. You know, you got to have a good
28:39
routine because you know, it's, it's not like, you know, in
28:41
college is so structured. You know how we had it, you
28:44
know, you would go to Darby, have our lives down like we're,
28:47
we're doing this, we're waking up and then we're, we're, we're,
28:50
we're working with the GA's at this time.
28:52
We go lift, then we chill, whatever.
28:55
Then we got practice at what we have.
28:57
We have prices like one 2:00. No, it's not like that.
29:00
It's that adjustment. It's it's not like that in the
29:03
NBA or G like you get your work in and if you don't, then it's
29:07
going to it's, it's going to show you know you have practice
29:09
for during the season. You mean you play so many games,
29:13
travel, you have practice for like give you a quick rundown of
29:15
a day. You have practice at like 11-12.
29:18
You go, if you have practice at 11, you'll go to 12:30.
29:21
That ain't going to be two hours.
29:23
Rarely go to 12/30. What are you going to do with
29:26
the rest of your time? It's not required.
29:28
You know, like in college, they'll make, they'll do like
29:30
things, OK. You have to get this amount of
29:32
this amount of shots, you know, over the summer or, or per week
29:35
or whatever, you know, to keep guys in the gym or we don't get
29:38
it as a punishment. Oh, you're a grown man and you
29:40
got to figure it out. Get your work in, get up.
29:42
You know, you may have a schedule if you may not when it
29:45
comes to a lot of games, you don't have that.
29:46
So you get your lift in. It ain't got to be long.
29:49
You talking about 30 minutes? Get your lift in, get on the
29:53
court. If you had practice, get on the
29:54
court after that, come back and come later at night, whatever
29:57
your routine is, get your shots in.
29:59
But you have to get your work in.
30:01
And I think that's the biggest adjustment from going to college
30:03
to the to the pros is it's not structured.
30:06
And some some of some guys can't operate when it's not structured
30:09
or it takes them a really long time to really get a routine.
30:12
And I think if and some of that with some guys that could hurt
30:17
because you may not have lovely the luxury of other guys of, you
30:20
know, you have you getting chance after chance.
30:23
So you'll be all right. But sometimes you got to, you
30:25
really got to lock in and get your routine.
30:28
Yeah. Do do you feel like you know the
30:30
extreme structure of college can hurt guys long term because it
30:36
kind of gives them a crutch of not having.
30:38
To take ownership. Sorry to interrupt you, but I
30:40
do. I agree with that 100%.
30:42
I agree with that one. These kids are making a lot of
30:44
money now. They're making a lot of money.
30:46
So I think that if they're making this much money, these
30:49
kids can afford, they can afford a lot because they're going to
30:52
buy cars and houses anyway. You know, I think they should
30:55
make it. They they should, they should
30:57
adjust it now to more like the pros.
30:59
You have an offseason. OK, cool.
31:01
You can, you know, go back and forth to whatever between
31:03
school. I know they want team
31:05
camaraderie and the workouts and everything.
31:06
That's fine. You want to see what what these,
31:10
you know, if these kids are really serious about their
31:13
craft, what we do in office after after the offseason, most
31:15
guys that go to wherever they're from or wherever they live or
31:18
whatever and they get to work like me, me and you working
31:21
have, you know, back on the offseason.
31:23
We do that. So let guys do that.
31:26
Let's see who's taking care of the body.
31:27
Let's see who's getting trained or whatever, getting in the
31:30
weight room, getting on the court, getting trained.
31:33
Like that's going to tell you a lot.
31:34
Could you just hate and do this, this money and they're not
31:37
really having to invest in themselves because they're still
31:40
having a structure too. So then they go blow the money
31:42
on to stuff that they don't have.
31:44
They don't need to blow it on. I think you, I think you need
31:46
to. I think it's really need or
31:48
schools need to try to try to do that.
31:51
Obviously you can still have summer workouts, whatever, but
31:54
don't make it so structured. Let let them go, go away because
31:58
sometimes some schools only give their guys like a week or two
32:00
weeks after the season. I'm like, that's not even, I
32:03
don't know if that's even good for the mental to be honest
32:05
after, after being around somewhere around each other
32:07
every day for 7-8 months. So I think you could make it,
32:11
make it more like that and it could benefit and you're going
32:14
to see which guys are going to be ready when October, November
32:18
comes. Yeah, yeah.
32:19
When I think about that, I guess here's the dilemma I see if, if
32:22
we're looking at from the the coaches perspective in college,
32:25
it's like, OK, we do that. Yes, I, I think, I think, right.
32:29
I, I think obviously, like anytime you let people
32:31
experience something and fail on their own, that's going to
32:34
create the longest, the greatest long term change, right?
32:37
Just like if, if there's a parent that's always, you know,
32:40
helicopter parent, always over there kid and never letting them
32:42
fail or, or get hurt, like that's going to hurt them long
32:44
term. But I guess the dilemma then, as
32:46
I look at from the the the college coach perspective, it's
32:49
like, but we need to win right now and they may not be even be
32:52
here for another year. So it's like I'm just trying to
32:55
like, we need to get as like maximize this nine months for
32:58
them. And if no, we let all these, all
33:01
these guys go do what they want. I don't know where we're going
33:03
to get. So like we need this structure
33:04
because I need to maximize right now.
33:06
And like hopefully they're good long term, but that's ultimately
33:08
not where where we're going to get the value from, if that
33:11
makes sense. Right.
33:12
I agree. It has the coach perspective.
33:14
Yeah, mine was like from the player's perspective almost
33:17
coaching perspective. I think I would do it like, I
33:20
don't know, I, I think I would give the guys more all the time,
33:23
like on their own to go do what they need to do.
33:26
And then once we come back, then that's where I see like who's
33:28
like who's been working, who's been taking care of their body?
33:31
You know, who's been, who's been in the gym, you know, or, or you
33:35
just been taking vacations and having fun with all this money
33:38
you have and you're losing what you're here or what we are here
33:42
as a team, as a staff on what, what we're here to accomplish.
33:46
And that's when as winning games and as winning a national
33:49
championship. Now only one team can win a
33:51
national championship. So if you don't, I don't think
33:53
it's like a yeah, you can only one team can win.
33:56
But are we on the better side of having a good great season and
34:00
not like an all right season? Now you know one thing I've
34:04
thought about Google as a company they like for their
34:08
employees, they listen to like 20% time.
34:10
We're basically like 80% is like the task that they need their
34:13
employees to do. And then 20% is basically they
34:15
get to work on like whatever they want, whatever fun projects
34:19
they want to come over. They, they, they get to just get
34:21
creative and do that. Like I've thought about that as
34:24
it relates to like development and like, OK, I think it'd be
34:27
cool. I can in the like the summer,
34:29
the offseason, you know, it's like, OK, we've got that 80%
34:32
that as a team, this is what we need to do.
34:34
And like the 20% like maybe maybe that's when you're working
34:36
like with the, you know, player development coaches on your more
34:40
one-on-one type. So it's like you get a drive 20%
34:43
or like whatever portion of this of like what you want to work
34:45
on, kind of how you want to approach it and allow kind of
34:49
that autonomy for the players, which I think, you know, maybe
34:53
from your perspective. But I I feel like that would
34:55
bring a lot more motivation from a lot of players versus always
34:57
just being told what to do and allow you to kind of feel like
35:00
you're working on the things you need to work on.
35:02
And then, you know, maybe once you get further like into the
35:04
season, it's non conference, like, OK, now this is even that
35:07
we're going to hone this in even a little more structured because
35:10
now it's like it's game time and we need to fit into the system
35:13
of how we play as a program and team.
35:15
What? What's your thoughts on that?
35:16
I mean, I agree. I think that's good because like
35:19
you say, I think you you end up finding your role, especially
35:23
when games come around, you end up you end up fighting your role
35:25
a little bit more. Like even as far as like the
35:27
rotation. OK, I know like OK, I may get in
35:31
at this point, right? OK, I know I'm gonna come out at
35:33
this point. So it keeps guys from pressing
35:36
too, you know, like I it keeps guys from like saying, OK, I got
35:38
to do this, I got to do this. No, I know what I'm doing.
35:40
OK, So I'm, I could like say, even if even if like say I
35:45
start, I start OK and I'm gonna play probably until the second
35:49
TV timeout, right? Or some point before the second
35:54
TV timeout. So the second TV timeout in
35:56
college is at 12. So I know I may come out before
36:00
that. So then I'm not pressing right.
36:02
And like that's the way of finding my room.
36:05
OK as way. And you find, you rule out that.
36:07
And then obviously you have the coaches that tell you the kind
36:10
of what we need. Then you go to your player
36:12
development GA, whatever who you're with or who is your
36:15
player development coach. And like you said, you're
36:17
working on that, so you're getting better on that.
36:19
And then you don't have to think too much when you get to the
36:21
game. It's like clockwork, you know,
36:23
it's routine, it's muscle memory.
36:24
It's so it's so beneficial. Yeah, yeah.
36:27
Now as we talked about players having ownership of their own
36:30
process, their want, their own habits, like you, you have one
36:34
of the most unrelenting work, work ethics I've seen or been or
36:36
been around for you. Like when, when did you start to
36:40
really own your own process, your own habits, right, Your own
36:43
work, rather than have one, having someone kind of drive you
36:47
toward that or, or was it, is it always your own process?
36:50
Nah, I, I, I still remember this to this day, which is funny
36:55
because this is the first time I'm really saying it.
36:57
I remember this to this day was, I remember, I think I was, I was
37:01
on my way to basketball practice.
37:02
We were in the car for my dad. I can't remember my brother or
37:06
my mom was there, but doesn't really matter.
37:08
You're gonna call my dad and I think I was 11 years old at the
37:12
time, 10 or 11. And he would talked about how
37:14
like he's like, you don't work hard enough, like you don't work
37:17
like you just think this is going to happen.
37:18
You don't put in no extra work. You just go to practice and all
37:21
that. And I don't really understand
37:22
that. But when he said that, I don't
37:24
know what happened. I don't know what happened.
37:26
It was known over the switch over.
37:28
It was just like a more like a light bulb went off because I
37:31
don't believe that you can just turn switches on and off.
37:33
I don't I don't believe that you can't do that.
37:35
But there's like a light bulb went off like and it changed me
37:38
for literally forever. That's when I was 1011.
37:41
I'm 24. I still remember it.
37:42
I would never forget that. I would never forget that
37:44
moment. It was such like, it was such a
37:47
clear one or five moment for me in my life and my work ethic.
37:51
I remember that and I just started to work and no one was
37:56
going to keep me from working. I started going to the gym and
38:00
I'm on the gym. We used to have a basketball
38:03
goal in the front and I'm out there for hours.
38:05
It's raining, I'm out there. I don't know what it did to me.
38:08
It just did something so wired me so differently that after
38:12
that talk, other than my dad, I really just listened for real.
38:15
So after that talk with my my pops in that car when I was at
38:18
1011 years old, it changed me forever.
38:20
It's such a, it's the moment. It's so clear for me still.
38:23
I still remember him getting on to me.
38:24
Like not really get on to me. Just tell me straight up, you're
38:26
not going to make it if you don't work.
38:28
And I just started to work. That's that's powerful.
38:32
As you think about that, like, like that moment, like you're
38:34
saying, you know, that was 13 or so years ago and you can still
38:38
picture it perfectly. Are there have you had other
38:41
experiences with coaches in your life where like you still hear
38:47
the things that they used to say to you or or the the habits or
38:50
things they taught you like you, you still see show up and, and
38:53
in your day-to-day all the time, even though it's been years
38:55
since you've been with them? It it still shows up, man.
38:59
I find that's the way like coaches can like make a lasting
39:02
mark on a player. Whatever is like create
39:05
assistant coach in high school coach cord.
39:08
We called him chef cord because he always we he cooked up
39:11
everything plays everything He was a guy he stuck with he's he
39:16
stuck with me and so much because he was another guy that
39:18
made it about habits me and him will get up.
39:20
He would get up at 5:00 AM 5/30 with me and we're working me and
39:24
my pops and we're training. I mean we're we're doing a
39:28
Damian Lillard workout the force before before the team comes in
39:32
and lifts and then we're working out after.
39:33
Like he just made such a lasting impression on me.
39:36
Crazy just told me about habits. Like it could be the smallest
39:39
detail off his defense is the little habits and I still take
39:43
those with me. I took him with collars with me.
39:45
I took him to now being a pros. It was he, he was another guy
39:49
that he, he was so good, man. He, he taught me so much just
39:53
about consistency and not just about being good, but being
39:56
consistent. You'll get better if you're
39:58
consistent. But if you're great, if you're
40:00
good and you're not consistent, you're it's just going to go
40:03
down and go down. So he, he taught me a lot, man.
40:07
I love him for I appreciate him. I don't talk, but we don't
40:11
connect as much like anymore. But if he was there, he called
40:15
me. I mean, I'm answering first ring
40:18
and we'll be on the phone for hours.
40:19
Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome. And I think like, just like
40:23
something that came to mind as you're saying, it's like like
40:25
habits will always catch up to you, like no matter your talent.
40:28
Like, I know I I thought about this like with like, I don't
40:31
know if you watched that documentary on Johnny Manzo that
40:33
came out like a year or two ago. And it's like, I was like his
40:36
habits were not the best, but but he did pretty well, right?
40:40
He, you know, went in the highs and all that, but eventually he
40:42
gets the NFL and it's like on that point, he's like, I really
40:45
watched 0 minutes of film. It's like it caught up to him,
40:49
right? You know, and some people that's
40:50
going to catch up to you in high school.
40:51
Some people is going to catch up to you in college, after
40:53
college. But eventually your habits are
40:57
going to overtake your talent. That's for.
40:59
Sure, you have to have good habits or great habits.
41:01
You have to have really consistent habits.
41:04
That's that's a perfect connection.
41:05
I love watching the Johnny Manziel and I still watch it.
41:08
You know, Hannah gets upset with me sometimes.
41:11
I still watch it. I watch everything over and over
41:13
again. Some does something to my mind
41:14
like he was so good the way he could have been like it's crazy.
41:18
I think I'm gonna realize, well, he could have been as
41:19
ridiculous. Like I'm talking about out of
41:22
body experience, like just something like out of this
41:24
world. Just those habits weren't there,
41:26
man. But if he had those habits and
41:28
he's sitting in some of his interviews and stuff I had, he
41:30
could. He could have done so many
41:32
greater things and he had already done.
41:34
Yeah, yeah. What's what's 1 like simple
41:38
thing as we talk about habits like what's the habit of what
41:41
coaches could do for athletes not gonna be any crazy that that
41:45
would really impact the athletes experience though just in that
41:49
program or with that code it's. So it's so many, but it's simple
41:53
what have it to get someone I don't see see, I think I don't
41:57
know if we know if it starts from the core of the core on the
41:59
field or anything. I think it starts like off to I
42:03
think it's I think it starts off the field.
42:04
I know some people may not like Deon Sanders, but I mean, I love
42:07
him just the way he does it. And I mean, you tell me he talks
42:10
about like how they are in the classroom because he's like, if
42:13
I agree not going to classroom, I can't trust you out here.
42:16
Apparently my daddy said that to me, right.
42:18
And I'll be like, oh, wait, no, there's not, there's a there's
42:20
no, but there's now I know there's no double standard.
42:23
What you are is what you are there and, and over here too.
42:27
So that's not right. You, you can't be right over
42:29
here either. I think that I think it's I
42:31
think it starts off the court that that habit right there, you
42:35
know, walking, carrying yourself off the floor, off the field
42:39
with, you know, having integrity, having some dignity
42:42
to that. I think when you go, you get on
42:45
the you get on the court, on the field, that's what takes it
42:48
over. I think that's the best habit.
42:50
And I think it does start in the classroom.
42:52
I wish I was better at that, and I wish I knew more that, you
42:55
know, like we said earlier, you kind of don't know what you
42:57
don't know until you do know it. Yeah, one person I've had on
43:02
here before, Kawasaki talks about like an iceberg where like
43:05
the top of the iceberg stuff showing above the water, that's
43:07
like the skill and all that stuff.
43:10
But then underneath that, like the things that don't people see
43:12
but that actually hold the whole thing up is like the the
43:15
character, the habits, like all that stuff and like the talent
43:18
and the skill. It's so fragile if there's
43:20
nothing underneath that, right? You have to I've like just I
43:25
thought it comes down to obviously like how you're
43:28
raising, but like I, I just feel like it's you got to have a you
43:32
got to you got to everything has a foundation.
43:34
You have to have. You have to, it's like a, you
43:37
know, house with habits with, you know, human like all we we
43:41
have to have a good foundation for everything else to to stay
43:44
right up. You know, house don't work.
43:46
You don't have a good foundation.
43:47
You just, you know, when stuff comes hurricane or you know,
43:51
tornado, like sometimes it can take it over anyway.
43:54
But you have a better opportunity, better chance if
43:56
you have a good foundation. Even when me and you work out
44:00
that when we were that, that that first first block that we
44:03
ever did. And when I was when I came to
44:04
you in late April, it was building foundation.
44:07
And then we got to the next block and I was like, but
44:09
anyway, it's not as bad. You know, it's still tough, but
44:11
I would you know, you, you told me it won't.
44:14
You'll feel like as as you know, as bad I was, you know, you
44:18
stronger. We built that foundation.
44:20
It starts with foundation is everything, man, when it comes
44:23
to relationships, you know, with your wife and, and then when I'm
44:26
with Hannah now when I'm with DJ, we got you have to do a
44:29
strong foundation. So then when we go through tough
44:31
time, we already have that foundation.
44:33
So we so we have a better connection and we have a trust
44:36
level of trust level of love, a level of courage and care to get
44:40
through it. And I think that's how it
44:42
starts, man. That's how I like to operate my
44:44
life. It works better for me.
44:46
Yeah. And that's great.
44:47
And as you talk about that and talk about like family and, and
44:51
you talked about the conversation you had with your
44:53
dad, what role do you think parents should play in like
44:58
guiding and directing and pushing their kids like, but
45:01
also allowing them to take that ownership of their own process?
45:04
I mean, obviously that kind of changes as they, you know, as
45:07
they get older and older, but kind of how does that look from
45:09
like a younger kid to older and how how parents can guide and
45:12
push them without taking them on on, you know, on their own path
45:16
versus the kids path. Yeah, I think I am my dad.
45:20
My dad pushed us like no other. I think there, there has,
45:24
there's like, I feel like you there's sometimes you can get
45:26
into like a happy, happy median about it.
45:29
You know, you want to push him, but you also don't want to push
45:31
him too crazy because some of these kids know they're young.
45:36
You're talking about young, 8 years old, nine years old in
45:38
there. He's telling these parents were
45:39
like pushing and pushing them crazy.
45:41
Like almost as like they're trying to live through their
45:43
child, I guess. And I'm not going to do that
45:46
'cause I know how hard it is. Like I'm going through it, like
45:49
I know how hard it is. I, I know how tough it is.
45:52
And someone just, and you're going crazy, going crazy all the
45:54
time. You're going to be like, all
45:56
right now, like you got to shut up at some point, you know?
45:58
So that's when you let them. OK.
46:00
Yeah, You, you go do it. And if you need me, I'm right
46:02
here. I'm going to be supporting you
46:04
the whole, the whole step of the way.
46:06
And then when I feel like I need to come in, I'll come in.
46:08
But like, as they get older, they can make their decision and
46:12
so on. My dad's been telling me
46:14
sometimes I wish that we let you make a little bit more on your
46:17
own 'cause then it bears even more when I'm at this age.
46:21
And you got to make decisions about a whole lot more than just
46:24
sports. You got to make life decisions,
46:26
you know, now you know, me being a dad too, you got to make
46:28
decisions about this all, all their plays, hand in hands, you
46:32
there's you got to, you got to have, if there's some wiggle
46:36
room in there, you got to know when you can test it, you know,
46:40
and then when you can't test it. Yeah.
46:43
No, that's really good. And it's, you know, I don't, I
46:45
don't, you know, we don't have kids yet.
46:47
But but I know even just from coaching and stuff like, like
46:49
it's hard because like you always want to see them succeed
46:52
and you want them to go the right route or the right
46:54
direction and you want to push them there.
46:56
But sometimes it is like you have to take a step back and be
46:58
like, OK, like they need to, they need to get there on their
47:01
own or else they're not going to go where they need to go.
47:02
Once, once we're not there to to help them because we're not
47:06
going to, you know, we're not going to be there always to
47:07
coach them or we're not going to be always there to parent them
47:09
forever. That's true.
47:11
I mean my God, like, I mean, I mean, I, I'm grateful for so
47:14
many people that I've had that coached me, coached me hard.
47:17
But for instance, I don't care when talking about my parents,
47:20
like talking about my dad, 'cause he was more he was the
47:22
one that like he was, he, he was to push her.
47:25
And I even I'm open about it, even me and him, like he, he,
47:29
he, he pushed so hard, like so, so hard that like me and him
47:33
like sometimes we wouldn't be in like in a good place.
47:35
Sometimes, you know, our relationship wouldn't even be in
47:37
a good place. Thinking about living in the
47:39
same house with someone that either relationships kind of is
47:42
hurt. That's that's a tough way to
47:44
live because you got to see him every day.
47:46
And you know, it was tough. Those few years were tough, but
47:48
we went through it. There is there are no other.
47:51
Everything is good on the other side of the heart, are you?
47:53
But you got to get on the office.
47:55
You got to give them the other side of the heart 1st.
47:56
And even me and my pops, I mean, we did that and we've been, I
48:00
mean, we've been better than ever, man.
48:02
Like our conversations just talking about anything.
48:05
Give me advice on, you know, just had a little little just
48:09
little Nuggets about parenting and not even just sports.
48:11
So I mean, it helps so much. You know, sometimes you don't
48:14
want to go to that time, but you know, probably that's probably
48:17
what maybe maybe we had to maybe the little like you got, you got
48:20
to I got to give you this, give you and your dad this.
48:23
So then when you do get older, you know, and I'm not like
48:26
older, but I'm older than when I was more when you know, listen
48:30
to take it in and to, you know us to have, you know, a good
48:33
relationship and that's what we have.
48:35
I love that if you could go back to when you you were that
48:38
younger kid and just knowing what you know now, would there
48:41
be anything you would change about the way you developed
48:44
yourself as an athlete from young kid all the way until now
48:47
that you think could have, you know, you could have done better
48:49
to help yourself out more or anything or, or do you feel like
48:53
you know, you're you're you're good with kind of where that
48:54
path was? I I would change yeah, I was
48:57
changing one thing. It might could be a couple, but
48:59
let's just well change one thing.
49:01
I would I would hope more play 5 on five.
49:04
I just like hoop as much as possible because we can all get
49:08
in the gym and we can go shoot, we can go hard.
49:10
We go shoot, get shots. If there's nothing like when
49:12
you're playing, you know, against someone, you have a real
49:16
defender and you have to make real moves at different angles.
49:18
OK, how can I get this shot off this way?
49:21
OK, I now I can, I got time. I can get my shot off regular,
49:24
but someone's running at me. OK, I got a pump fake.
49:26
Take a dribble like all those things.
49:28
I, I wish I'm doing that a lot now and I did that last awesome.
49:32
But it takes a few years. You know, it takes, it's not
49:34
just one offseason and it's like boom, I got it.
49:36
You know, it takes like 3 offseasons.
49:38
You know, you get better each 124 offseasons, you get better
49:41
each one. And I wish I just would have
49:43
hooped tomorrow when I was younger, like, I'm sorry, I'm
49:45
talking about 14151617 all throughout high school.
49:48
And I think it would have benefited me a lot more if I did
49:52
it then. But I mean, I guess it's never
49:55
too late, but I wish I would have started it there and just
49:57
hooped like all the time playing pickup all the time.
50:01
It it just builds your confidence.
50:02
You get confidence too when you're doing it out there.
50:04
You're like, OK, when I get back to the season, I've already done
50:07
it 3-4 months of this. I get back training camp with
50:11
with, with, with, with the team, get to games.
50:14
It's like it's it's muscle memory at that point.
50:16
I've already done it for 3-4 months.
50:17
So that's the one thing I wish I would do was I wish I would have
50:21
played more like pickup, you know, not just games, but more
50:25
pickup without coaches. And you know, when coaches and
50:28
sometimes when you got coaches, you know, sometimes you can't be
50:31
free like that. But when you're playing pickup,
50:33
you can try different things working what you need to work on
50:36
and you're getting better and you can try new stuff.
50:38
OK, I, I thought I can do this move.
50:40
Try new move. I thought I can do OK.
50:41
Then you, you take it to your workouts, I'm wrapping it out.
50:44
Then you get back to your pickup and I'm doing the move and I'm
50:47
seeing how I can do it on a live defender.
50:49
So I would say that that would mean that would be my thing and
50:51
it'd be something I'd tell someone that younger than me.
50:54
Hoop, hoop, hoop as much as possible.
50:56
It's great. And I feel like, I feel like
50:58
that comes back a little bit to what we said way in the
51:01
beginning. We're about like, like beginners
51:03
want to be told they're good. And and and I think it's like
51:07
when you're young, you know, you can go do spot shooting or
51:09
whatever it is like no defense, not live.
51:13
And you can see success probably a little faster there.
51:16
We're saying, OK, I'm going to just do the same thing over and
51:18
over. I'm going to get better at that.
51:19
But then OK, you go play pick up.
51:21
Maybe it's with older kids too. It's like you're going to fail
51:23
and you're going to mess up, You know, you're not going to make
51:25
as many shots, you're going to turn the ball over, you're going
51:26
to get blown by. So it's like I feel like there
51:29
might be a little bit of buoyance of that failure, but
51:32
putting yourself in those positions where you do fail and
51:34
you do have those live environments.
51:35
You get to you get to create, you get to experiment, you get
51:37
to, you know, play with different with new things like
51:40
you're talking about, like that's when you really do grow.
51:42
So I think it's like stepping out of that, like momentary
51:46
feeling of wanting to just feel like you had success just
51:49
one-on-one on your own and allowing yourself to step into
51:52
environments where you do feel like you can fail, but that
51:54
that's what's going to push your skills the most.
51:56
Exactly. That's how you get better.
51:58
That was me. I was that one.
51:59
I was that type. That was that player where I
52:01
felt like that I just wanted to do drill because I knew I'd make
52:03
shots and it felt good. When I went home and I was laid
52:06
my head on the pillow, I felt good.
52:07
When you get to like practicing games, you're like, OK, like I
52:10
got to catch this catches moving on the run, someone's flying at
52:14
me or I gotta make this dribble, pull up, I gotta get this angle,
52:18
go this way, change back this way to get by somebody and you
52:21
all can only there's only one way to do that and that's to
52:24
play 505 and get those reps. You know, I'm saying that is
52:28
better than just going to gym and trying to make 251 hundred,
52:31
52150 shots, 305 hundred, whatever because you're actually
52:34
getting real game speed stuff. You can go into gym and just
52:37
shoot and just shoot. You know, like you said it, it
52:40
may not bear good when it comes to, you know, when it comes,
52:43
when it comes to pricing game time because you're moving at A
52:46
at a different pace. Man, Dave, and this has been
52:48
awesome. I've loved getting to have this
52:50
conversation with you just get to see your inside and just, I
52:53
mean, you've had some awesome experiences, but you know, you
52:56
can tell you, you learned a lot from that.
52:58
And, and I think it's cool. Just, you know, I, I see it each
53:01
wing every day, like how open you are to trying to impact,
53:03
whether it's the younger kids or the other people working out and
53:07
just trying to pass on like what you've learned.
53:09
Obviously still learn stuff too, but you're like, I see it a lot.
53:12
Like it's not just about, it's not just about you getting
53:14
better, but you, you like actively like want to help other
53:16
players and other people get better.
53:18
So man, it's just so cool to see that.
53:19
I love it, man. Why else do it if you can't
53:22
bring people with you, you know? Yeah, because you can't do it by
53:25
yourself. And I'll, I hate and I don't
53:27
like when people say that I'm doing this.
53:29
I'm all you never do anything on your own.
53:30
So I appreciate you. And when everybody comes in
53:33
there to work out and all your and all the other kids come in
53:36
there to work out, I guess they're not really kids, but all
53:38
the other people come in and work out.
53:42
I love seeing everybody in there.
53:43
If there's nothing like walking into a gym working and people
53:46
are coming through the door ready to get some work in, I
53:48
just let's just the process of it like people are or doing
53:52
other things that other people at their age aren't doing.
53:54
They could be out there having fun, chilling on the lake in the
53:56
summer and at 2:15 it's hot outside.
54:00
They're in there in the gym, putting in work.
54:02
We're all getting better, sweating together.
54:04
There's nothing. I don't think there's nothing
54:05
more beautiful than that.