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Independent Bookstores–Sharing Some Love · Reality Writes

0:05
SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: I am author Ellie Alexander and I'm here with I am the Tech Guy.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: The Tech Guy.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: And uh we do a podcast where we talk about pretty much anything that falls under the scope of writing and the reality of that, yeah?
0:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everything that goes into it, everything it does to our relationship.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean for our relationship.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: Um we cover it all.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, this week we're gonna be sending some love out to uh bookstores.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: This is love.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: So it's fitting, darling.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm giving him a little, you know, heart finger.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Um it's fitting because I'm like finger.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: No, a hard finger.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: I think it's fitting because we both love and always have loved bookstores.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: In fact, early on when we were dating, one of our favorite date nights was to go to Borders.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: We'd get a late night coffee.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: I loved their snickerdoodle cookie.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And we'd just wander the bookstore for hours.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: Or like a Saturday, we'd head down to Powell's in Portland.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: Um I don't I don't know if Powell's is on our list that we're gonna talk about, but yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: That well, let's let's add that to the list.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll start right now with Powell's.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, that was like the quinta because we lived in Portland, like yeah, we just thought that was normal to have a bookstore like Powell's, and then we're like, oh wait.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for for the for those out there, the darlings listening that uh don't know, Powell's city of books in Portland is a massive, massive bookstore.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: It is an entire city block, square block of the city of Portland, multiple floors, and it is just like you can you get lost for hours.
2:04
SPEAKER_03: And we would do that like Saturday mornings, go for a walk, then we'd go down to Powell's and we'd go grab a coffee, yeah, kiss each other goodbye, and yeah, see you in a couple hours because that was it.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Wade, like I'd go, yeah.
2:19
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you knew where you could always find me in the the sci-fi fantasy section, and and I knew where I could find you.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: And but it was just you could just wander it forever and just so much cool stuff, and it and it's still there today.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: It's still there today, and so many great used books too.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Like it was a mix new books, used books, events.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: I heard so many authors talk there long before I was writing myself.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, this was also in our early days, this was long before cell phones, too.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: So you we really would get lost from each other for hours.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Like we weren't like in the same section, maybe in the same floor.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was yeah, we could be one aisle over and not know it.
2:57
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, they um yeah, lost in the stacks.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: That could be a good book.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: It's a book idea.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: So romantic.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so I thought it would be really fun to talk about uh the independent bookstores who have really like helped make my career what it is today.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Like without them, I don't know that I would have the same level of readership because they helped connect me to so many readers early on.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: We've had such incredible experiences getting to travel to bookstores.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: And um, I thought we could share some of our favorite memories of trips over the years.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: And I have to start with vintage books because uh when my very first series came out, the Pacific Northwest Pacific Northwest Mysteries, blah, blah, blah.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh I the very first book was coming out.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And because of just us and who we are, I said to you, like, I don't want to just have a bookstore signing.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: I want to bring readers into Meg's world.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: So I want to do an event that has like beer tasting and pink cupcakes and like, you know, all of the fun, like little pink charms and things that she would have.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I reached out to a local restaurant that was also, it had this great big outdoor patio and they served coffee and beer, so it was perfect.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: It was all the meg things.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And um, then I tried to figure out like how are we gonna get books there?
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Because readers might not know this, but if you are published by a traditional publishing house, you contractually cannot sell your own books.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: So, like, we couldn't just buy books ourselves and show up and sell them there.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: You have to have a bookseller to sell for you.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, I made a ton of calls and everyone was like, we don't know who you are.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, we're not gonna show up, we're not gonna order books.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: And okay, new author, whatever.
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: But um, vintage books, and this is actually thanks to my publicist at Kensington at the time.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: My publicist reached out to Vintage Books on my behalf and said, Hey, is there any chance you would come be the bookseller there?
5:08
SPEAKER_01: And they said yes.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they came and immediately like we were just the best of bookish friends.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then over the years, especially while we were living in the Portland and Vancouver area, we went on tons of adventures together.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Vintage books would say yes to anywhere that I went.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Like we ended up at a lingerie shop one night.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Like opening.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that was like a first Thursday thing, right?
5:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: I remember that.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Pepper, who was a dear friend and one of uh vintage's long employees and booksellers.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: She's like, what are we doing here?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: But this is the best night of my life.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, we're gonna sell books in the line.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: Selling cozy mysteries and lingerie.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what like really got it started.
5:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they've been, I mean, uh supportive is such an understatement for for what they've done for for you know, you for us over the years.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: And and actually, um, one thing that you didn't mention at the beginning when you were talking about uh bookshops and just what they've done for you and everything is we've learned a lot from the independent bookstore owners.
6:17
SPEAKER_03: Like learned a lot about the publishing industry, about uh book marketing, uh, and you know, uh just a lot of things.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: And and so they've been like so generous in sharing their knowledge and experience and and everything.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: It's it's just been like I I it's safe to say that we would not be where we're at today with the Ellie Alexander writing empire without the independent bookshops.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: No chance.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: No, there's no way.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're right.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, so much partnership and collaboration over the years, learning, especially early on, learning how bookstores purchase books and why they purchase what they purchase, and then like the back end of how books end up getting reviewed or on bestseller lists, or I remember when um I got the Sloan series and it was coming out in hardcover.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Becky, who owns vintage books, was like, oh my gosh, this is a major breakthrough for you.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: This is like a shift in your career.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, I don't think it matters.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, oh no, there's a whole different level with hardcover because then a lot of libraries purchase hardcovers.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And that was all information that we learned from, yeah, our book selling friends.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: I never learned that from the publishing house even.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: It was uh, yeah, I mean, that I would never have thought of that, but that's why you see more hardcovers at libraries than paperbacks, because it just they they're more durable, they're they last longer.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: Because people uh uh people probably, I mean, most people probably don't know this.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Darlings, most darlings probably don't know this.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: The libraries pay more for for each book than than you do as readers, like a lot more, a lot more.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, because they buy fewer copies, and then in theory, hundreds, maybe more people check the book out.
8:00
SPEAKER_03: So they pay more up front.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: So it is good when they get books that last a long time because libraries don't always have a lot of money.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, and they should.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: They should have more.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: But um we should do another podcast just about library love.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: This is bookstore love, but we'll have to do a library one love.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Libraries gave me my start.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, I wouldn't be a writer today if it were not for my local Vancouver Public Library.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: Well, we know so many librarians too.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: So now, yeah, it would be.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that'd be that that'd be a good episode.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, and since this theme is love, like I do think it's fascinating and not at all surprising, but like we've we've built like real friendships over the years with booksellers and librarians because they're book people, and I know we're biased, but book people are the best, yes?
8:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:46
SPEAKER_03: Well, and some of them are beard people too.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: So I kind of got the double whammy with a few of them.
8:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: So early on in my career, we had our very first event, and um, Drew Carney from KGW came out to cover it.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I think I can get some press.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it just turned out to be the most wonderful night of my life.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: My kindergarten teacher came, my fifth grade teacher, some of my high school teachers, like it was just this book love fest, and it would not have happened without vintage.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: And so then I really like went on this mission to say yes to any offer that I got to come to any sort of bookstore event, um, which sometimes was a great success in terms of connecting with readers.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes one reader would show up, but that was okay because then I got to meet booksellers and we I think we logged, I think it was I I might be wrong about this, but I feel like at some point in time, and I know I have this in a note somewhere, I think that first year we logged like 25,000 miles on the Subaru.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: We did, yeah.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, on our first Subaru.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: It was 25,000 miles we drove that year for just for book events.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Just for book events, yeah.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: We went everywhere in the Pacific Northwest.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Um California.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: And California.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, that was the radius that we could afford.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: That's that's another thing that I think um is a misconception that authors get paid to go to bookstores.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And every once in a while that happens.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: And I'll talk about a few op, you know, of those that have happened over the years as my career grew.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: But um 99% of the time, the author is paying their way to go to a bookstore signing, which is great because again, the bookstores are taking the risk of purchasing the books and um, you know, inviting you into the store.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: But it's not usually that um, you know, your publishing house is paying for you to go do this.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: Right.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: Um Wait, one thing that we should mention, because you you just mentioned um that bookstores take a risk with ordering the books uh that that uh the darlings might not know that bookstores can return books um if they don't sell.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: However, if a bookstore invites an author and has that author sign all of those copies, those copies now belong to the bookstore.
11:02
SPEAKER_03: They can't re can't be returned.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: So once they've been signed, so and that is a testament to the relationships that you've built because there's not a bookstore that we go to anymore where they don't have you sign all the stock.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Right, you know, yeah, and and that includes uh couple branches of Barnes and Noble, which a lot of copies of stock.
11:24
SPEAKER_03: We've got to do your social media.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: There's one picture I remember where you must have signed well over 200 copies of your books.
11:32
SPEAKER_03: And that was so amazing to see just the they were like, Yeah, we're gonna sell these, of course.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: Sign them all.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and well, that's the thing.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Like booksellers, um, they hand sell so many books, you know.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: That that there's such truth to that.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: If somebody comes in and says, Hey, I'm in the mood for a cozy mystery that's you know, got like a little touch of baking and it's set in the northwest, they're gonna be like, I have the series for you, you know.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Um yes, they can return copies that are not signed, like you said.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And this is one of the reasons that um sometimes it's difficult for independently published authors to get copies into bookstores because bookstores cannot return those copies, so they have to sell on commission, which is just a totally different model.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a different model, it's a different revenue stream.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: And um independent bookstores will often do that, but it's not um, it's not a guarantee.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's right.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: That's the difference.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so uh we have to talk about some of like the highlights.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that sticks in my mind is uh we went to Sun River Books many times.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: And I have two stories that I have to share about this, but I want you to share the first because you are our snow driver, and we went when it must have been on thin icing came out, maybe.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that sounds about right.
12:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because this was a while ago.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was late December.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: And Sun River is in the high desert, and we said, yes, of course, we want to go because it's an excuse to get to go to Sun River for a long weekend, and we had the most epic snowstorm ever.
13:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, so it's important to set it up.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: This was scheduled months in advance, months in advance, and as you'll get into um uh Dion and is it Rich?
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: Sun River books, they um wonderful people, um, so supportive.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: And again, just like you know, just been an amazing help over the years.
13:31
SPEAKER_03: And Sun River, for those who don't know, is a little um community of uh in in kind of the the forest.
13:42
SPEAKER_03: It's uh um in the high desert.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: Um it's a community, it's got you know, there's golf course there, there's hundreds of miles of bike trails, um, there's a big aquatic center with pool and everything.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of a vacation destination, although there are a lot of people that do live there full time and um a small community, I shouldn't say a lot of people.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, um Sun River Books is in the main shopping uh restaurant complex it within Sun River.
14:11
SPEAKER_03: And um, and uh so months ahead of time you'd set up a sign in for new release.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, and and the uh the weekend that we were supposed to go out that Friday night, it just it we it wasn't just snow, it was ice.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: And that that that was the yeah, so it snowed, and then there was just this the um Columbia Gorge, uh the when the east winds blow um the temp in from Portland out to Mount Hood just drops, like it just bottoms out.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: And so if there's any moisture in the air, it freezes solid and um and it was icy, and you know, you you didn't want to go.
14:54
SPEAKER_03: You were like, I I have to call and cancel.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, we can't cancel.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: It's like it's the day, it's like the night before.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: We got it, like we she's expecting us.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And there's a foot of snow and like a good inch of ice, ever Portland is shut down.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was so it was so bad that there were like raised ruts in there in the road from where the snow had built up and then frozen solids.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, as you were you were kind of like on your car was like a toboggan.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: You're just like going down the the chute.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: Um and I said, no, let's let's just try it.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: It's probably stupid in hindsight because Luke was pretty young.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: So we had you know, we had our son in the back seat.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but we had we had a Subaru Forester.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: I love Subaru.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh but my dream would be for Subaru to sponsor an episode.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Subaru is definitely gonna sponsor it.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: We'll just put that out there.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: I was confident we could make it because we had a Subaru, though.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: So um uh I was less confident, I will say.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: I think I wide knuckled that entire drive.
15:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I white knuckled it.
15:56
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't feel my hands for like four hours after we got there.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so uh well I mean it's not much of a spoiler alert.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: We made it alive, right?
16:05
SPEAKER_03: Because we wouldn't be here.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: But but it was um what does it usually take to get to Sun River?
16:10
SPEAKER_03: Like uh maybe like driveways three, yeah.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: Three and a half hours, something like that.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: Three, yeah.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: It took like five, five and a half.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: I think it feels like it took like six.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: It was a lot.
16:20
SPEAKER_03: We were going very slow.
16:21
SPEAKER_03: We had one really, really close call where we were actually sitting at a light off on an off-ramp, and a truck came down off the freeway coming the other direction, um, a pickup truck, and the guy was going way too fast, slammed on his brakes and turned sideways and was sliding right toward us.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: And there was nothing we could do.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were the car like I we were just sitting there just waiting, and that truck stopped maybe five feet from our car.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: Um but the whole time we were just like, ah, you know, like here it comes.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: And uh, but thankfully everybody no, nobody got hurt.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh we're, you know, good thing we brought change of clothes.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, but um we made it when and when we got there, I still remember DM's like, you actually came here.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Why did you come?
17:14
SPEAKER_03: She was like, What?
17:16
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, she couldn't believe it.
17:18
SPEAKER_03: She was so excited to see us, but she was like, You did not need to risk your lives to come here, you know.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: And these are the things we do, these are the things we do for you, darling.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: It was early on, though, in your writing career.
17:28
SPEAKER_03: So we were like, you know, we could like we can't break these.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: So we did it.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: It was a full house.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Everybody came.
17:36
SPEAKER_03: I know it was crazy because everybody in Sun River was snowed in.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: They couldn't go anywhere, so they just all walked down to the bookshop.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: It was great.
17:44
SPEAKER_03: It was such a great event.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: And Dion and Rich always do such a great job.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: They have like wine and little snacks, and she always does giveaways and hypes up the next author who's coming.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: It's not just me, like every author who they have, they they just do a fantastic job.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, the other fun story that they have.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: No, I I just want to set up the other story because Okay, good.
18:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes, perfect.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: This is also related to some.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:08
SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that um, because you know, if we with the pandemic and everything, we kind of went away from doing this as much.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that you've always been good at with book signings is like taking it up a notch.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: So trying to incorporate something else into it that's r related to the book, and and a lot of the times that includes bringing somebody else along from like another business or something.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: And and so that was the case for this visit to Sun River Books.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: What book was it for?
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is for um the Rose City series.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: And so you brought a florist.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: I brought a florist from Sun River, uh, a f a nearby floral shop, uh, to come do a demo and everything as part of the book talk to kind of like level it up and and keep the interests in everything.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: And so exactly take away.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, much like our early, our very first launch with vintage, that's always kind of been my slant.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Like we've we've had pastry chefs come do uh.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: Lot of chocolate.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Lot of chocolate.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Lots of chocolate, yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: Lots of chocolate.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Coffee, um, yeah, beer tasting.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: We did uh beer tasting at Bloomsbury that year, remember?
19:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: They were like, yeah, bring bring the brewery, that's fine.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Um yes, okay, so this was Darlings.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: You might not know this, but I wrote a very short-lived two book series, uh, The Rose City Mysteries.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: And I I think it was for Violet Tendencies, the second book.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: It did not go anywhere.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I invited, I looked for a florist at Sun River because I thought, oh, that's perfect.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: They're already there.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: They can come do a flower demo and I'll talk about the book and it'll be fun.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of the night, I'll give away some books and the florist will give away the bouquet, and then you know, readers will get to go home with something special.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Great.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: So I called Dion um a few days before and said, Hey, I would like to invite wild poppy florist to come to the signing with me.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: Um But you didn't talk to Dion.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: You talked to me.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Dion was not in that day, it was one of her staff, and her staff took the note.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: And this is the classic experience of telephone.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: Game of telephone.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Um the the young staff member says, That sounds great.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: If Dion or Rich have a problem with that, I'll let you know.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: But otherwise, yes, that sounds great.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's it.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: And you were kind of like a problem.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:32
SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe they were worried about allergies with the flowers.
20:35
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Anything?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: No.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we uh we get to Sun River, and we have also not only brought Sky Guy, our son, along, because at this point in time he's like, I don't know, 12.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's excited because he's gonna meet up with a friend.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And we also brought our dog, Dot, who uh was the best dog.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: She was part Aerodel Terrier.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, go the other.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, look at Dot.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna get all cheery now.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: I know that's the worst.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Part Aerodel Terrier, part Bernice Mountain Dog.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, just the best dog.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: The Thai Kai needs a minute.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: So sad.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: We we lost her a few years ago.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she loved the outdoors.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: She was and Sun River's just perfect, right?
21:23
SPEAKER_01: She was fantastic with kids, she was fantastic with people, a nightmare with other dogs.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Like we tried training, we got kicked out of training classes.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: No joke, we got kicked out.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: We were asked to leave the class, refunded our money, and just told to take our beast and go.
21:41
SPEAKER_03: She was the most adorable, lovable dog, but she just wanted to eat any other dog, literally eat them, like just yeah.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was the terrier in her.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: But okay, so we show up with Dot, we leave her at the cabin, and we walk over to the bookstore and Dion greets us at the door and she's like, Where's your dog?
22:05
SPEAKER_03: We were like, What?
22:06
SPEAKER_03: I don't how did you know we brought our dog?
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Like we have a yeah, like we were totally confused.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: And we're like at the cabin.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Well, where like aren't you bringing like go bring her?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't even think she said aren't you bringing her, but it's like go get her.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was like, I don't like she's a hundred pounds.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: First of all, she's a big dog.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: Like, she was not overweight, she like she was a hundred pounds of pure muscle and and big shaggy, she had like a three-foot-long tail that was just like a baseball bat when she was wagging it and just sweep everything off tables and stuff.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I really don't want to bring her in the store, you know.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking at you going, you figure this out because I don't want to bring a dot.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Like I go get her?
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Like what?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So then um we kind of move over because the the front of the store is like the checkout and cash cash register area and like bookshelves, and then the side of the store is where they have space to set up the chairs and the wine and everything.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: And we walk over that way, and or I do, I don't remember if you came with me for that part.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: And um there's like a yeah, there's a young, there's again, there's a nice audience because they Dion always did a great job of bringing readers out.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in the front row, there's a young girl who's like four.
23:29
SPEAKER_03: Um clearly there with her grandmother.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was it was definitely a grandmother, granddaughter, and I was like, This is weird.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: In the front row.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Front row, yeah.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't usually have a lot of kids who are super excited.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do I get young readers every once in a while, but not a four-year-old.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And her grandmother was like, she is so excited.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's so excited about this.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, We were like, what?
23:54
SPEAKER_03: Wow, so you you've been reading the books to her, like what what is what's going on here?
24:00
SPEAKER_01: I am missing this.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, it's getting it's getting closer, and wild poppy florist has not shown up yet.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm kind of chatting with people, and Dion is still pretty insistent that you need to go get Dot.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: And we're both kind of like, I don't think that's a good idea.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: And then finally she says, Look, when I sent out the email to my readers in the newsletter about this event, I promised them that you were bringing a wild puppy.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: I promised them a wild puppy.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: Suddenly it all made sense.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Where's the puppy?
24:43
SPEAKER_01: You can't script this.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we laughed so hard.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Wild poppy, poppy flowers.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Who did show up?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: We never brought dot.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, the little girl was bored out of her ever-loving mind.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: I went, I I did go and get dot um at when you were wrapping up so that the girl could meet her.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: And she did meet her outside.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: I did not bring dot into the bookstore.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:15
SPEAKER_03: Wild puppy, wild poppy.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: So close yet so far.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Lost in translations transmission.
25:23
unknown: Yeah.
25:23
SPEAKER_03: Dion was not happy with the woman who worked for her that took that phone message.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: No, I know that I felt terrible.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm a florist.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a little bit.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: It all worked out.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: It was a great event.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: But everyone laughed.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: We got a I mean, everyone who came, that was a great laugh for the except the little girl.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Except the little girl who was like, why did you bring me to this event?
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of our early travels took us all up and down uh the coast, too.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: We went to lots of beach bookshops.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: So we had Lucy's and Astoria and Bob's and um what else?
26:02
SPEAKER_03: Uh beach beach books.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: Beach books, canon books, canon beach books.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: That's a mouthful, beach books.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the all of them, again, just so supportive.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: Astoria with Lucy's was always so fun because your dad and sister lived there.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So every time we would visit, it would be like your entire family would come show up and support me.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And then Beach Books, uh, they did the same thing because they had a lovely, they still do have a cafe attached.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: So um we did a whole basically like literary lunch.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the beautiful thing is a lot of these bookstores you can order from.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And Beach Books is so great at giving book recommendations.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: I feel like they've become your personal like go-to.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: Spend a lot of money there around the holidays.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: A lot of money with Beach Books, yeah.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And um, what's the little special touch that they do?
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, they they um so books uh independent bookshops get uh trade magazines all the time for you know to advertising like uh Ingram, like a big book distributor, will send out a giant magazine that will have like ads basically for all the books, the upcoming books and everything.
27:16
SPEAKER_03: And so Beach Books reuses all of these magazines and they wrap all of the books that they ship out.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: And when I say rap, I am like they if they don't, they should have YouTube videos on how to rap because they should.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: I would just every time.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: Beautiful, but there is kind of a funny story about it too, because yes, they always write little notes.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: They write little notes like, you know, thank you, like, you know, appreciate you and like enjoy this one, or tucked in a little something extra, or whatever, you know, it's just like it's so great.
27:53
SPEAKER_03: It's like getting a box full of presents.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: However, if you're ordering four presents and you have multiple people you're ordering for, and you buy like five or six hardcover books, they all come wrapped.
28:09
SPEAKER_03: And so it's kind of made a fun game around the holidays for us because I'll get like four or five for you, and then a couple for our son.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: And I'm kind of like, okay, well, you both need to open these at the same time.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: And you know, Luke could open one and go, Oh, get kind of a weird look, I'm like, Oh, here, give me that.
28:30
SPEAKER_03: This is for your mom.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, just like, and you'd inevitably get a Star Wars book for sure.
28:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, because you just don't know, like they're wrapped, and I and the wrapping is I again, it is absolutely perfect.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: It looks so cool when it's wrapped in uh it's their books wrapped in pages about books, yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: And so it's kind of fun.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, but when you order like five or six hardcover books, they're they're all about the same size, and you have no idea which is what I guarantee you you could just tell them to put a little note on it.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you won't do it because it's such a fun game now.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: It's fun.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly why I haven't, because it's ended up being such a cool game of like, okay, who's gonna get what?
29:16
SPEAKER_03: And like, yeah, it's it, but I mean, it's just little touches like that that that really uh I you know make make bookshops stand out for sure.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I use them as inspiration for my new secret bookcase mysteries because I'm having them do like special raps in that because it's just so cool.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh so if you're not great at rapping, yeah, it's done.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Your gift is it's ready to go.
29:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:43
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: We were just uh in Leavenworth.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
29:51
SPEAKER_03: I love that place.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: I love that place too.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: So um a book for all seasons, which is the local independent bookstore there, and again, just an incredible shop, incredible people.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: They have put Sloan on the map because of their like dedication to the series.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Like there's always an entire half of a bookshelf that is dedicated to Sloan, like it's incredible.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, actually, um, I will always remember this.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: We were we were out there for the first time for uh um uh Death on Tap.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: And um the first book in the Sloan Krause series.
30:35
SPEAKER_03: And you were doing you you had done your book talk and done the signing and everything, and and you were just um you were uh talking to a few people, and I was just kind of standing back um looking at all the amazing things they have in their shop because I just get lost in there too.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: And and I kind of glanced over and they've got this wall um of books, uh, and it it you know, the like the books are perfectly spaced, and there's one copy of each book, and I look up and they've got this really cool neon sign, and it says PNW bestsellers at Pacific Northwest, for those who don't know.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: And um, and I look at the the top row and like number three is Death on Tap.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what?
31:21
SPEAKER_03: And that was the first time that you were like, Whoa, cool.
31:24
SPEAKER_03: You like you we didn't even know that was a thing, and there it was, and so that was really cool that they they again just a fun, super creative display of like this is not New York Times, this is the Pacific Northwest, so this is local.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: This is like, and and it makes sense given that your book is set in Leavenworth, but it was that was really cool to see.
31:45
SPEAKER_03: And we would we would have never known if it wasn't for a book for all seasons.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: No, and again, going back to like um what we've learned, not only things about the publishing industry, but someplace like Leavenworth, every bookseller um who I've ever interacted with at a book for all seasons, and then including Donica, the owner, um have given me so many insider tips about the village.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, no, um, you should take a note, Ellie, because if I'm like walking across the street to go talk to some other business owner and I see a tourist, I will always stop and ask if I if they want me to take their picture.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, that's brilliant.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: That goes in a book.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, so even just having those kind of resources at a local level or people that then over the years who I will email and go, okay, I'm thinking about this.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Does this feel right?
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just it's such an incredible resource if you're writing about a place that you're not actually living in.
32:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
32:40
SPEAKER_03: And that that has been true for every bookshop, uh, whether it's Vancouver or Cannon Beach or Hood River or Sun River.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, it's just like every they all they know they know their communities.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's been really that that is uh I like you can see that has bled into the settings of a lot of your books for sure.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and made them so much more authentic and real because I'm actually, I mean, obviously there's yeah, there's a brother sometimes, you know.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: But people die, which you know for for most of these small towns is pretty rare, believe it or not.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: It's pretty rare.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, we talked a little bit about then um, you know, obviously like our own travel to a lot of these places.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: There are times then when um my publishing house will get involved, and that happened early on in the Sloan series with Murder by the Book in Houston.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: And that all comes from somebody like John, who is one of their booksellers who will reach out to I know he's the best.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Um again, somebody else for whom like I'm always like, I need book recs.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: So many books that I've gotten for you and Luke from him, too.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he'll reach out, or any bookseller from um some of these bigger mystery shops in particular will reach out to the publishing house and say, Hey, we'd love to have Ellie come.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes if that happens, the publishing house will actually offer to pay for like a flight and one night at a hotel to get me there, which is always um great because you know, it can we drive a few hundred miles in our Subaru?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Like for sure, but it it would get really expensive to fly all over the country, right?
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Although now, whenever we're doing any sort of personal travel, we just try to make sure, like, oh, can we tack on an independent bookstore while we're visiting wherever we're at?
34:34
SPEAKER_03: Well, and we always have a box of books because i interesting fact about uh murder by the book.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, I actually went to that bookstore years before you.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, I I was hoping you would tell the story.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So this is before I didn't even you just had This was Scene of the Climb.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: An arc of scene of the climb.
34:53
SPEAKER_03: Right, yeah, yeah.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, it was so your your first cozy, and it um I was working for the ad agency at the time, and uh my job had I traveled a lot to various parts of the country to meet with clients, and um I had to go to Houston, and you were like, Hey, you know, it when you're down there, there's this really big bookstore.
35:18
SPEAKER_03: Can you can you go by and take this art by, you know?
35:21
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yeah, sure.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: And I I went in and um took an Uber out there, and um uh and I was like, hey, you know, I was I would well first of all, I was I I walk in and I'm like, it's a big store.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: Um I it like one of the bigger independent stores, I would say, um, in terms of like physical footprint.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: And I went in and I I was like, you know, I was nervous because we were still very new to this whole thing.
35:50
SPEAKER_03: And like again, book hadn't even come out yet.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: And I I didn't know much about uh the publishing industry at the time.
35:58
SPEAKER_03: So I had this ARC, and I I remember before I left, I was asking you, like, are you sure?
36:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, are you sure if I walk in there?
36:04
SPEAKER_03: Are they gonna be this is a crazy person?
36:06
SPEAKER_03: No, get out of here.
36:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, what are you doing?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, and for any darlings who don't know, an ARC is an advanced reader copy.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: And so pre-COVID, the publishing houses used to print physical copies.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: They don't so much anymore.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Maybe with a brand new series, sometimes they will, but um, they come unbound.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: They're also called galleys with just like a basic light blue cover with a title, and they're they're still uncorrected proofs, but it's a way to get excitement early on.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
36:33
SPEAKER_03: And so I walked in and I got about halfway through uh um my you know opening sentence about my wife is an author and Kensington, and I said the word Kensington, and the woman I don't remember who I was talking to at the time, but she was like, Oh, Kensington, oh great.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: And she took it and she's like, Oh, this is so wonderful.
36:53
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, It is?
36:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah, it is.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: It is.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, okay.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, and she's like, Oh, well, um, you know, Joanne Fluke is gonna be here later with her people from Kensington.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: If you want to stay around, I I'm more than happy to give you a ticket.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh, um, yeah, okay.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I was flying out later anyway, but um, but I was just like, and that again before your first book came out.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, Joanne flew with her people from the publisher.
37:28
SPEAKER_03: I was like, wow, yeah, this is what it's gonna be like.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, then the whole world changed, but whatever.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Whatever happened, it's okay, it's all good.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: We we found our people, we found the best people anyway.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: But I but I was I I just like I can't remember who it was at uh the the woman at Murder by the Book that I spoke to, but I just I will always remember that she was very kind and very like because I was super nervous.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: I didn't like I didn't want to screw anything up for you, and then I wasn't really sure if like am I giving her something that she knows about, like and doesn't want.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she was just super supportive and just it was great, super cool.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Which seems to sort of be the theme most of the time with the people that most of the time, yeah.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: We've had a few.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I do want to tell a story about that, but first, um, the other place I have to talk about now that we're living in California, I was so nervous about leaving Ashland.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: We had our just like sweet community.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: We knew everybody, like you literally walk down the street and everybody pretty much knows your name.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Maybe sometimes for better or for worse.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're moving to like the Bay Area, California, Sunny Bay, like big tech, right?
38:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was lamenting to you, crying a lot in the early weeks of making this decision to move.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how am I gonna meet my people?
38:49
SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna do?
38:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we don't even use paper here, so it's not right.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's like that that's kind of where you were going with with that when books were.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: So many misconceptions.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: But oh yeah, um, one of the very first things that I did was figure out like where is my local independent bookstore?
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And um, that's Lee's bookstore and uh on Murphy Avenue.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And I went in and I was like, hey, you know, I'm I'm new to town.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Do there do you happen to have any book clubs?
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, and um that week they were starting their very first, Lee was starting her very first literary lunch.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: So for the first year I was here, I would go every Friday or once a month on Friday, um, and we would have lunch, and I met so many great people.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and of course, like Lee and that whole book club have become our friends and our community down here.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and such an important third space.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: And so Lee and I were chatting about third spaces, and she's really wanting to make the bookstore even more than that.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, you know, I've been wanting to do a mystery book club.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe we could do like mysteries and mock tales.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: So we started this book club um that's just been such a gift.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh so once a month on Thursdays, we have a whole group and I make a special mock tail that goes with the book.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we we chat about the book, and um yeah, it's just and now you even have readers showing up because they've learned that you have a book club here in the city.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: That's true.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is so fun.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: I know.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: We're not reading my books, it's not that kind of books.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: And then we're reading those.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: But right.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, okay, so there have been a few misses over the years.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Um we won't name any names, um, but I would say this tends to happen when there are like bigger events at bookstores.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: So we were at a bookstore.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I I won't even say where.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: I was at an event.
40:45
SPEAKER_03: Um and an unrelated event.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, yeah, we were going up that way for Sky Guy, right?
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Was it or was that March Madness?
40:56
SPEAKER_03: It was March Madness.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: It was March Madness.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: So we were going to March Madness basketball games because our ducks were in it, Go Ducks.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And um there was a book what's that?
41:07
SPEAKER_03: They were in it for a little while.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: They were in it for a little while.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: No, actually, I think they made the final four that year.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say didn't wasn't that the final four year?
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, if somebody really wants to be a sleuth, you can figure this all out with these clues that we're dropping.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Um so I can't remember what the event was happening at the bookstore.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't, it might have been Independent Bookstore Day, but I don't think that's the stuff.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: I think it was like small business Saturday or something.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:32
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, no, no.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: Is that that's not in March, is it?
41:36
SPEAKER_03: That's uh that's after now, yeah.
41:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: It probably doesn't matter, but maybe it was because I feel like independent bookstore day moved a few years ago.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: It it's irrelevant though.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: There was something like that happening, and I reached out to the store and I was like, hey, we're gonna be in town for March Madness.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to come by.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Oh my gosh, this is fantastic, yes.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there were other authors in the store that day because it was a full event, and it's a very bookstore.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: The bookstore was great.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: This is no shade on the bookstore at all.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: Um, the bookstore is beautiful.
42:08
SPEAKER_03: That is a really cool bookstore, yeah.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's one of those things where they have tables set out all throughout the space.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: And I was sharing.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: It's a big bookstore too.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: What's that?
42:20
SPEAKER_03: It's a big bookstore too.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like two stories.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was sharing a table with um someone who had recently independently published.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: And um they uh if I'm doing an event like that, I you would usually like make some merch for me, and I might have like some stickers and bookmarks and sign up for my newsletter.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, the bookstore had books so that if any reader wanted to purchase a book and have me sign it while I'm there, that's great.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: But normally I'm just I'm like this.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking to people, I might be chatting about like other book recommendations, not even my own.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing a hard sell ever.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Like that is just not my personality.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, um, the author for whom I was paired up with was all in.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: We're talking like used car salesperson.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I do to get you in this book today?
43:12
SPEAKER_01: This is the best book you'll ever read.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Literally, like waving it in readers' faces, forcing them to come over.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm just mortified um the entire time because what?
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is not how this works.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, nobody wants that.
43:26
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's not even the worst part.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: That is not even the worst part.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, a few kind readers would sort of engage for a few minutes and then I think they were scared, not kind.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: I was scared.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: I was like moving away, like, oh, how do I get out of this situation?
43:45
SPEAKER_01: And we were there for like, I can't remember, but it was like a two hour window or something where, you know, there was a rotation of authors throughout the storm.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: So I am stuck for two hours with this person.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And um, so a handful.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm just choked because I'm so vacumped about it.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: A handful of readers every once in a while would stop and engage in a little conversation and then politely be like, Well, yeah, I don't, I don't need the book today, but you know, whatever.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: Then this author has the audacity.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: They had printed out business cards and would push them at people as they're coming by, and they would say, Don't buy the book here.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot cheaper on Amazon.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Just go buy it on Amazon.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: Don't buy it here.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Here's here, get the get it on Amazon the entire time for two hours, nonstop.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: A bookstore has invited you.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: A bookstore is giving you space.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: And you oh, it was I wanted to.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: Here's a here's a pro tip for the darlings out there that uh are aspiring authors um or new authors.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh if you want to build and maintain relationships with independent bookstores and their owners, don't push Amazon while you're at the bookstore.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: Like it's just that's poor form.
45:05
SPEAKER_03: It is really poor form.
45:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Terrible.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And I will say that um when the event was over, I tattled on this author.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: I went out to the main bookseller and I was like, I just want to let you know.
45:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, it's not, it's it's their livelihood.
45:24
SPEAKER_03: And if they're giving up space to somebody to advertise their books and everything, like you gotta, you gotta like the sales need to happen through the bookshops.
45:33
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's just how it works.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: That's how it works.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, like, readers can buy on Amazon.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: I have no problem with that.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: But if I'm doing an and we promote my books on Amazon because lots of readers find them that way.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: But if I am doing an event at a bookstore and a bookstore is hosting me, I am 100% making sure that if a reader is interested in purchasing my book or really any other book in the store, that's usually my my talking point.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, please, we need, like I'm talking about with Lee's, we need third spaces, we need places where we get to go on date nights.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: So well, and actually, since we're on the subject of that, another quick tip that you know, hopefully people know, but if they don't, I know enough books sellers that I can bookstore owners that I can say this with 100% confidence.
46:18
SPEAKER_03: If they don't have a book you're looking for, just ask them.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: They can probably get it sometimes even the next day, but definitely within a day or two, and they'll have it for you at the bookshop, or they can probably have it sent to you too.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: But just ask because they're more than happy to order it.
46:35
SPEAKER_03: And it, you know, these are in many cases not like they don't have a ton of shelf space, they can't have thousands and thousands of books.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: So they have a wide mix of some of the best-selling or more niche books that that are out there, but they can order anything, they can get you any book you want to read, and they're happy to do it.
46:59
SPEAKER_03: So please just ask them.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: All right.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think on that note, that wraps up um our theme of bookstore love.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Go spread some bookstore love, darlings.
47:11
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: We um like there are so many out there.
47:15
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I feel like we could do another episode of this.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Um we could talk about.
47:20
SPEAKER_03: I I've I feel like we've forgotten a few that we've got.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: I know we've forgotten so many.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: Um we have talked for years about at some point in time, wanting to rent an RV and do like a cross-country book tour.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: That would be amazing.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Somebody just did that.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Who did that?
47:37
SPEAKER_01: An author.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we saw that.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: She had an airstream trailer.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Um that I can't remember.
47:43
SPEAKER_03: I can't remember.
47:44
SPEAKER_03: This is such a cool idea, though.
47:45
SPEAKER_03: So we will borrow that and then put our own spin on it.
47:48
SPEAKER_03: Maybe we want to do it.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: But in the meantime, vacation.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
47:54
SPEAKER_03: Working vacation.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we do.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, go check out your local indie bookstore.
48:00
SPEAKER_03: Right.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: So until next time.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: Until next time.