Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / What's the price on Brendan Donovan? + new prospect rankings released!

Transcript

What's the price on Brendan Donovan? + new prospect rankings released! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes joined by Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson. Hopefully
0:15
Speaker 1: everyone made it through Snowmageddon safely and intact. Before we
0:20
Speaker 1: get started, I know you guys don't like to start
0:22
Speaker 1: with this, but I'm told to start at the beginning
0:25
Speaker 1: with our plea for more subscribers. See, we were tasked
0:30
Speaker 1: with getting to five thousand. We blew by that. Now
0:34
Speaker 1: they want us to get to seven thousand subscribers, So
0:37
Speaker 1: please hit the subscribe button because you don't want aj
0:41
Speaker 1: Prazinski to make fun of us, because it's emasculating. All right, gentlemen, First,
0:46
Speaker 1: Lance you told me you had to snowplow out your safe. Kyle,
0:50
Speaker 1: do you have a snowblow or a plow? How did
0:52
Speaker 1: you get through the tons of snow we got?
0:57
Speaker 2: I was in the tractor.
0:58
Speaker 3: You've have a blade on the back in the driveway
1:02
Speaker 3: trying to stay off the sledding hill that goes up
1:04
Speaker 3: above the house. We have a driveway that goes above
1:06
Speaker 3: the house to make a little lean to field up there.
1:08
Speaker 3: We left that one clean. Let the eye let the
1:12
Speaker 3: snow kind of turn into ice. And a slick hill,
1:14
Speaker 3: so that'll be lightning today, is the hope. But we
1:18
Speaker 3: bladed down the driveway to the road, and I've got
1:21
Speaker 3: to blade the driveway to the new home construction going
1:24
Speaker 3: on here in a little bit. So and then it
1:27
Speaker 3: was a light snow, so Elizabeth took our leaf blower
1:30
Speaker 3: and she was the leaf blowing and shoveling off the
1:32
Speaker 3: spot by a car.
1:33
Speaker 2: So we had a few people over here sledding yesterday.
1:36
Speaker 1: It was fun, nice and lann't you you have a
1:39
Speaker 1: tractor and you you just took care of business, didn't you.
1:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just move it to where you want to
1:46
Speaker 4: and then go about your day.
1:49
Speaker 1: I of course had a little old man shovel, just
1:53
Speaker 1: very aware of getting a heart attack because it's a
1:55
Speaker 1: dangerous thing for a man in Yeah, I have a
1:59
Speaker 1: sixteen year old who was trying to help, well pretending
2:02
Speaker 1: to help, and then was like out doing snow angels
2:06
Speaker 1: and not helping it all. All right, So the news, Yeah,
2:10
Speaker 1: I'm a bad parent because he turned out this way.
2:14
Speaker 1: He's a wise guy, don't know, I'm a bad parent.
2:17
Speaker 1: The news from Cardinal World this week isn't really news.
2:22
Speaker 1: You guys have been talking about it for a while,
2:25
Speaker 1: but reports at Heim Ballooma is saying, hey, maybe we
2:29
Speaker 1: don't have to trade Brendan Donovan. He's talking about maybe
2:34
Speaker 1: a deal that just knocks his socks off. They would listen.
2:38
Speaker 1: But maybe there's wisdom in keeping a guy like Brendan Donovan.
2:42
Speaker 1: I know you guys have been all for keeping Donovan.
2:45
Speaker 1: Why not? He hits, You can plug him in anywhere,
2:48
Speaker 1: gold glove defense and a bit of leadership in the clubhouse.
2:52
Speaker 1: So Lance, do you consider this good news or do
2:55
Speaker 1: you just consider this what was going to happen anyway
2:59
Speaker 1: because you need a guy like Donnie on the roster.
3:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you obviously need a guy. That's why
3:05
Speaker 4: everyone sees the value an him. But I think this
3:09
Speaker 4: is kind of the obvious trades where the three that
3:13
Speaker 4: have been traded, and then when you say everyone's kind
3:16
Speaker 4: of available, because you're not gonna sit here and say
3:18
Speaker 4: nobody's untouchable because of what you're trying to build. So
3:23
Speaker 4: if you could have thrown him in with one of
3:25
Speaker 4: the other guys and maybe sweetened the deal or this
3:27
Speaker 4: or there, got a package that really kind of turns
3:29
Speaker 4: over your upper farm system and or your young everyday
3:33
Speaker 4: players or maybe even a future as you can't turn
3:37
Speaker 4: those down. With the guy that's I think he's twenty
3:39
Speaker 4: eight going into twenty nine season, got two years left,
3:43
Speaker 4: so the value is only going to kind of you know,
3:46
Speaker 4: it kind of gets in that point where it could
3:48
Speaker 4: go up at the trade deadline this year too, So
3:50
Speaker 4: you don't do anything if you don't have to. But
3:52
Speaker 4: if it was a spot that, hey, this team's gonna
3:55
Speaker 4: give us this future ace this you know, future top
3:58
Speaker 4: of the rotation arm or this and that that might
4:01
Speaker 4: be you know, younger and it fits your time frame,
4:04
Speaker 4: then you got to listen to it. But it doesn't
4:05
Speaker 4: sound like anything like that's happened. And if that doesn't happen,
4:08
Speaker 4: then it's the obvious choice of you put him with
4:11
Speaker 4: the guys that are already there, the younger group. You know,
4:14
Speaker 4: these guys are all going and they're early, you know,
4:15
Speaker 4: they're twenty two to twenty five years old, and you
4:18
Speaker 4: get him a guy that can just be stable, you know,
4:20
Speaker 4: hopefully in like the two hole with Mason Hitt and
4:23
Speaker 4: lead off and then you can kind of fill in
4:25
Speaker 4: behind them as this season goes on and see what
4:28
Speaker 4: you got. And that puts you in a decent, decent
4:30
Speaker 4: top of the lineup that can do some things. Play.
4:32
Speaker 4: You know, you can play multiple positions, so you can
4:34
Speaker 4: make a spot for people. So when you look at
4:37
Speaker 4: it that way, it's like, hey, why trade him if
4:39
Speaker 4: you're not getting anything? That's like no.
4:40
Speaker 1: Doubt or cal You've been saying this for a while, right,
4:44
Speaker 1: if you have a guy who's usable, who if you
4:47
Speaker 1: had to deal them trade deadline comes up, will still
4:50
Speaker 1: hold his value. You think this is the proven thing
4:53
Speaker 1: to do.
4:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely.
4:56
Speaker 3: I mean I think I think I would love to
4:59
Speaker 3: see them make Donovan an offer that would not get
5:02
Speaker 3: socks off and keep him around.
5:04
Speaker 2: Obviously I've been pretty vocal about that, but I.
5:07
Speaker 3: Mean, I think the interesting thing that just kind of
5:10
Speaker 3: came to mind here is we're thinking about Donnie's versatility
5:13
Speaker 3: and and what the Cardinals are probably asking for him.
5:17
Speaker 3: There's a chance that, in my mind, there might not
5:20
Speaker 3: be that many teams that are set up to play
5:23
Speaker 3: him all around the diamond and then also pay the
5:27
Speaker 3: price that the Cardinals.
5:28
Speaker 2: Are gonna want.
5:29
Speaker 3: Now, maybe that sounds crazy, but you know, I feel
5:32
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of teams that set themselves up
5:34
Speaker 3: and say this is our shortstop, this is our second basement,
5:38
Speaker 3: this is our outfield, how it's set up here, And
5:40
Speaker 3: maybe adding a Donovan is kind of like adding a
5:43
Speaker 3: utility player, whereas you're probably not going to give up
5:46
Speaker 3: a frontline starter or something else for in their mind,
5:48
Speaker 3: the utility player. Obviously we know as Donovan just being
5:51
Speaker 3: the jugger out that he can go everywhere. I think
5:53
Speaker 3: it's a benefit for a team like the Cardinals, and
5:56
Speaker 3: could be a benefit for everybody. But if your team
5:59
Speaker 3: is not set up that way, then you're probably not
6:01
Speaker 3: looking to pay a premium for a guy that does that.
6:05
Speaker 3: Maybe that's not why he's been moved, you know. Maybe
6:07
Speaker 3: it's just a ridiculous theory that I just came up with,
6:10
Speaker 3: but I do feel like if you have a player
6:12
Speaker 3: that is a specific position, with the specific skill set.
6:17
Speaker 2: It might be a little bit easier to move them.
6:18
Speaker 3: But man, I just think with how this team set
6:21
Speaker 3: up and what Donovan can do, you know, I think
6:24
Speaker 3: he's somebody that you build around the utility and you
6:27
Speaker 3: let him win his utility gold Glove every year. And
6:30
Speaker 3: if you find a home and you find a couple
6:32
Speaker 3: of players that you want to add and you know,
6:34
Speaker 3: maybe he doesn't play second anymore because JJ's there, so
6:36
Speaker 3: maybe it's third outfield, and then all of a sudden
6:38
Speaker 3: Gorman takes off and now he's your third baseman. Then
6:41
Speaker 3: you can move down to the outfield, and then maybe
6:43
Speaker 3: it solves itself. But I just kind of wonder if
6:46
Speaker 3: that might be inhibiting the value that the Cardinals are
6:49
Speaker 3: getting back.
6:51
Speaker 1: Although you know, I think if you have a need
6:53
Speaker 1: at second base or even third, you get a guy
6:56
Speaker 1: like Donovan who hits hits for average. I think he's
6:58
Speaker 1: probably got some more power are tucked in there. Certainly
7:03
Speaker 1: a great guy to have in the clubhouse. I thought
7:05
Speaker 1: someone at this point would at least be offering, but
7:08
Speaker 1: we don't really know. But it does bring another question
7:11
Speaker 1: to bear, Like I think JJ Weatherholt is making the
7:15
Speaker 1: team out of spring training. I think that's already been decided.
7:19
Speaker 1: They're crossing their fingers that he gets a little traction there.
7:23
Speaker 1: I think the best position for him is second base.
7:25
Speaker 1: So where does that leave Donnie? How would you navigate
7:29
Speaker 1: this lance?
7:30
Speaker 4: I think we you navigated in this way if he
7:33
Speaker 4: does what he needs to do in stream chaining, that
7:35
Speaker 4: is in JJ then yeah, he put him at second
7:38
Speaker 4: base and you let him do his thing, and then
7:39
Speaker 4: that opens third base or left field, depending on your
7:42
Speaker 4: pitching matchup, because I think Donnie's in the in the
7:45
Speaker 4: game every day. If JJ breaks camp, he should be
7:47
Speaker 4: in the game every day. So there's two left handed bats,
7:50
Speaker 4: So okay, where can you get if there's a lefty
7:53
Speaker 4: that day that's starting to gets you can you get
7:55
Speaker 4: a right handed bat and left field or right handed
7:57
Speaker 4: bat to play third, and then Donnie's in the other spot.
8:00
Speaker 4: So that's the beauty of having Johnny on your team is, hey,
8:03
Speaker 4: you're probably good to bat second, and you're going to
8:06
Speaker 4: play second, third, or left one of every day. And
8:10
Speaker 4: if JJ is available that day, he's playing second, So
8:12
Speaker 4: you're at third or left depending on what you got
8:15
Speaker 4: going on, and then you kind of build your roster around, hey,
8:19
Speaker 4: here's what I know I'm going to have every day
8:21
Speaker 4: when healthy, and then here are my maybe my plituton
8:25
Speaker 4: spots in the d H or first base, third base,
8:28
Speaker 4: and left field with what you got going on. So
8:30
Speaker 4: I think that's kind of my mindset when you look
8:33
Speaker 4: at it, especially if JJ's you're no doubt second basement
8:37
Speaker 4: because if you break camp with that guy, he's got
8:39
Speaker 4: to play every day. There's no need and no point
8:41
Speaker 4: to sending him to the big leaguer and he's not
8:43
Speaker 4: going to play every day.
8:44
Speaker 1: So we all agree on Jim Jim question.
8:47
Speaker 3: Jim, I've done this in the past, not as much
8:50
Speaker 3: go ahead territory.
8:51
Speaker 1: You're recognized, the day is recognized.
8:53
Speaker 2: Kyle Gibson, Yeah, thank you.
8:57
Speaker 3: You know, we've talked a few times about having too
8:58
Speaker 3: many lefties and that does for the lineup or finding.
9:01
Speaker 2: A right handed bat.
9:03
Speaker 3: Is that more the actual lefties because obviously you put
9:06
Speaker 3: Donovan on the infield. When Burt listens out there, you've
9:08
Speaker 3: got three lefties across the infield. You got new Bar
9:11
Speaker 3: possibly Vic in the outfield. Right you're looking at five lefties.
9:14
Speaker 3: Is that because in your guys's mind, the lefties are
9:17
Speaker 3: so similar, all of them, and we don't necessarily have
9:19
Speaker 3: one that stands out as a three four hitter. Maybe
9:22
Speaker 3: a JJ is that guy? I don't know, or is
9:24
Speaker 3: it just because of left handed because I kind of
9:27
Speaker 3: feel like against a righty, don't you want to stack
9:30
Speaker 3: some lefties here and again? And I get maybe against
9:32
Speaker 3: the LEFTI you have an issue but just interested in lance,
9:35
Speaker 3: like is it because you think they're all pretty similar
9:38
Speaker 3: and that you know, kind of creates a little bit
9:40
Speaker 3: of an issue.
9:41
Speaker 4: So my my truthful, honest spinion, if the righty's on
9:44
Speaker 4: the mount and Gordman's at third, Donnie's in left, JJ's
9:47
Speaker 4: at second, Burley's at first, figure out what you want
9:50
Speaker 4: to do in the d H spot large is in right.
9:53
Speaker 4: I would get a right handed hitting center fielder that
9:55
Speaker 4: can be in there in that day because I think
9:57
Speaker 4: that you know that can go in, or right hitting
10:00
Speaker 4: outfielder that can go in on a day that you
10:02
Speaker 4: need to. So maybe Vic can have that day off
10:04
Speaker 4: against a lefty, or if another guy needs a day
10:06
Speaker 4: off against that lefty, you can give him a day
10:09
Speaker 4: and you have some you know, some way to do
10:11
Speaker 4: that where they can play left center. And that's my
10:14
Speaker 4: thought process and your the all hope is, Hey, when
10:16
Speaker 4: you have a tough lefty, then maybe you're your right
10:19
Speaker 4: handed bat and the DH right field spot and is
10:22
Speaker 4: is Walker, and then that can and that's a plus
10:25
Speaker 4: for you too. So I would still get a right
10:27
Speaker 4: handed hit if you can get Walker and another right
10:30
Speaker 4: handed hitting bat in the outfield against your lefties that day,
10:33
Speaker 4: with maybe Herrera playing as DH that day, AHAs or
10:37
Speaker 4: hitting right, then you're in a good lineup against lefties
10:40
Speaker 4: that day. And that's really not changing up a whole lot.
10:42
Speaker 4: That's that would be my mindset going there. Most of
10:45
Speaker 4: these lefties are every day guys barely every day, Donnie
10:48
Speaker 4: every day, JJ every day, Nude every day. And I
10:51
Speaker 4: want Gore to be every day. But he's going to
10:52
Speaker 4: show me a little bit because I think he could
10:54
Speaker 4: be every day. And they all take their walks, they
10:57
Speaker 4: do their things a little differently. Gorge more power large
11:00
Speaker 4: or large can take his walk down. He takes his walk,
11:03
Speaker 4: does his things so and Bareley just barrows everything that
11:06
Speaker 4: you throw out him. Doesn't matter which way you throw it.
11:08
Speaker 4: You can throw it underhand, overhand, sideways, lefty, righty. He's
11:11
Speaker 4: gonna throw. He's gonna take a swing on a put
11:12
Speaker 4: barrel on it. So I'm not worried about him either.
11:14
Speaker 4: So that's my thought. It's not platoons, to per say,
11:18
Speaker 4: but having those abilities to do stuff when you need to.
11:21
Speaker 1: I mean, any manager likes the balance righty, lefty, righty, lefty.
11:26
Speaker 1: That way, it's tougher to picture and that's I think
11:29
Speaker 1: what they always go for. It doesn't always work out
11:31
Speaker 1: that way. So I just want to make sure we're
11:34
Speaker 1: all on the same page here. So Jj we think
11:37
Speaker 1: will make the team at a spring training that second base?
11:41
Speaker 1: What's that?
11:42
Speaker 4: That's those are your words? You think he's on the team.
11:45
Speaker 4: You don't, No, Hey, I'm just selling that's with you
11:49
Speaker 4: that we're going off your your says every day. So
11:51
Speaker 4: JJ's on the team.
11:52
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say that I'm right because I usually am,
11:56
Speaker 1: uh second base, right? I mean, is that word? Go ahead? Lance?
12:02
Speaker 1: Second base? Because he can't play other positions, but you
12:05
Speaker 1: want to nurture this guy, and that's his most comfortable position.
12:09
Speaker 4: I think if you look at the roster, the way
12:11
Speaker 4: it's set up, with the talent that it has, that
12:13
Speaker 4: they need to really kind of get at bats, and
12:16
Speaker 4: what he's supposed to be comfortable with, second is the
12:19
Speaker 4: obvious choice because Donnie can go to left and gorgo's
12:21
Speaker 4: at third. That's my initial thought right away. So I mean,
12:25
Speaker 4: I think, Kyle, I think you're kind of seeing it
12:27
Speaker 4: the same way. If we kind of what we've been
12:29
Speaker 4: going on this so that would be the ideal spot
12:32
Speaker 4: put him in place he's comfortable, but it also makes
12:34
Speaker 4: everybody else play positions they're comfortable to comfortable position players
12:39
Speaker 4: usually swinging bat.
12:39
Speaker 1: Well, what did they come?
12:45
Speaker 2: Yeah? I would agree. I mean I think see where
12:48
Speaker 2: is comfortable? See where?
12:50
Speaker 3: You know, maybe I feel like some young players need
12:53
Speaker 3: the consistency of.
12:54
Speaker 2: Where they're playing.
12:56
Speaker 3: Other guys just want to play, you know, they just
12:58
Speaker 3: want to be like I want to be on the field,
13:00
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, you know, put me somewhere like so j C.
13:02
Speaker 2: That's that guy.
13:03
Speaker 3: You know, put me somewhere skip and I'm gonna go
13:06
Speaker 3: play and I'm gonna go be a ballplayer because that's
13:07
Speaker 3: what SAgs does, right. So you know, I don't know
13:11
Speaker 3: JJ at all. Maybe maybe he does want a little
13:14
Speaker 3: bit more you know, consistency here, and maybe that's good
13:16
Speaker 3: for the team.
13:17
Speaker 2: I don't know.
13:18
Speaker 3: I I tend to think that man, if you can
13:21
Speaker 3: move him around and you know, put him at third sometimes,
13:25
Speaker 3: put him at second sometimes. Uh, maybe if he can
13:28
Speaker 3: give Mason a day and play shortstop.
13:30
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe that's just not a.
13:32
Speaker 3: Good idea, but that's where all I think he's going
13:35
Speaker 3: to know the players and he's gonna be able to
13:37
Speaker 3: to put him in a chance a situation.
13:40
Speaker 2: Excuse me to succeed.
13:42
Speaker 1: Now, speaking of JJ, MLB Pipeline has put out its
13:47
Speaker 1: top one hundred prospects. The Cardinals have five in all.
13:52
Speaker 1: You can see them all, Doyle, Rodriguez, Biaz Burna, with
13:55
Speaker 1: JJ coming in at number five in all a major
13:59
Speaker 1: league baseball. That's why I'm bullish on the guy. Plus,
14:01
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of clips, I've interviewed him. That's
14:04
Speaker 1: all I can That's as deep as my assessment goes.
14:07
Speaker 1: But leg that's good news, right that the Cardinals have
14:10
Speaker 1: five guys on the top one hundred, and JJ the
14:13
Speaker 1: guy who, let's face it, we're talking about likely or
14:17
Speaker 1: at least in my opinion, being a big part of
14:19
Speaker 1: what the Cardinals are this year. Number five in all
14:21
Speaker 1: of baseball. That's a good sign, isn't it.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:24
Speaker 4: I think you're looking at they drafted well in the
14:26
Speaker 4: first round the last two years, so that's a positive.
14:29
Speaker 4: And then they're developing catchers when they get him in
14:32
Speaker 4: the system. They've been in here for a couple of years,
14:34
Speaker 4: so all in all, you're looking at all, right, the
14:37
Speaker 4: system was in a good spot when him's taken over
14:40
Speaker 4: and now he's added a bunch of arms and via
14:43
Speaker 4: the trades, So we'll see where those arms pop in
14:46
Speaker 4: to prospects, you know, rankings and stuff like this as
14:50
Speaker 4: the year goes on. But on all the system wasn't
14:53
Speaker 4: in a bad spot. And then now you've kind of
14:55
Speaker 4: reloaded underneath them with arms and stuff like that, so
14:59
Speaker 4: you know, it's going to be a good situation to
15:02
Speaker 4: kind of see what you have in the big league level,
15:04
Speaker 4: because the big league level isn't old, right, So a
15:06
Speaker 4: couple of those guys, four or five guys got to
15:08
Speaker 4: be your guys, and then you figure out how you're
15:10
Speaker 4: going to kind of load in around them, whether it's
15:13
Speaker 4: JJ coming in and being another guy, and then okay,
15:16
Speaker 4: what can we do free agency here and there to
15:19
Speaker 4: kind of put together the other little holes we might
15:21
Speaker 4: have until the next group wave shows up. So they
15:25
Speaker 4: put themselves in a situation where their prospects are are
15:28
Speaker 4: coming and they're growing in the right way, which is positive.
15:32
Speaker 4: And then the big league level, they've got guys that
15:34
Speaker 4: can be very good big leaguers and then now they
15:36
Speaker 4: just got to kind of take that step. So it's
15:38
Speaker 4: gonna be an interesting year all the way. Around, to
15:40
Speaker 4: be honest with you, with those prospects that they've got
15:43
Speaker 4: and what they have at the big league level, because
15:46
Speaker 4: they got to kind of weed themselves out and then
15:47
Speaker 4: you got to see what you have.
15:50
Speaker 1: Kyle, this is what a build looks like, right, just
15:52
Speaker 1: stockpile young talent. There's guys that the Cardinals are high
15:56
Speaker 1: on that are not in MLB's top one hundred prospects,
16:00
Speaker 1: So they have they're building depth down there.
16:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so you want to have you want
16:05
Speaker 3: to have depth. If you're not able to go and
16:07
Speaker 3: sign depth, you want to have depth in your system. Inevitably,
16:11
Speaker 3: there's gonna be injuries and you know, at some point,
16:13
Speaker 3: maybe they do move donn me in the middle of
16:15
Speaker 3: the year, and then you need somebody to step in.
16:17
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I think the more quality players
16:20
Speaker 3: they can get, you can get them in in the
16:23
Speaker 3: big leagues and you can get them learning the game
16:25
Speaker 3: and around other quality players, and you know they can
16:28
Speaker 3: you know, maybe they already are what Matt Carpenter would
16:31
Speaker 3: say as a winning player. If they're not a winning
16:34
Speaker 3: player and they're just a really good or a great player,
16:36
Speaker 3: they can learn the culture and they can become a
16:37
Speaker 3: winning player that makes other people around them better. Uh,
16:40
Speaker 3: you know, it's sharp mentally almost all the time. And
16:43
Speaker 3: and it's just a player that makes everybody around them
16:46
Speaker 3: h you know, elevates their game too. So yeah, you
16:49
Speaker 3: want to stockpile good players and then ultimately get them
16:52
Speaker 3: to the big leagues and let them play.
16:53
Speaker 1: You know, some people like the stockpile merch And if
16:56
Speaker 1: you like Cardinal Territory, we got mar Okay, you can
17:01
Speaker 1: get yourself a Cardinal Territory, a T shirt, a hat,
17:06
Speaker 1: maybe a hoodie, all kinds of gear. It's quality merchandise
17:09
Speaker 1: because they sent me some. It's very nice and it's
17:12
Speaker 1: at a reasonable price. So if you like Cardinal Territory,
17:15
Speaker 1: hit the subscribe button and also go to Cardinal Territory
17:19
Speaker 1: shop dot com. Mugs, drinks, hoodies, t shirts, so little
17:26
Speaker 1: travel bags. We got to get some of those. Go
17:28
Speaker 1: to Cardinal Shop.
17:29
Speaker 2: I gotta step in. I gotta step in. I think
17:32
Speaker 2: we should apologize. Lance.
17:33
Speaker 3: I don't know if you got this text message, but
17:35
Speaker 3: I did get a text message last week asking for
17:38
Speaker 3: my hat size and shirt size for Cardinal Territory. And
17:40
Speaker 3: then Thursday I was joining in blowing up the people
17:44
Speaker 3: for not sending us gear. So if you didn't receive
17:47
Speaker 3: a text, Lance, then you know you have that excuse.
17:49
Speaker 3: I did get a text, So apologies to the foul
17:53
Speaker 3: Territory people. They tried to get me some gear and
17:55
Speaker 3: I just apparently ignored. So I just want to get
17:58
Speaker 3: that out there.
17:59
Speaker 1: You know, just did you get did you get the communicate? Lance?
18:03
Speaker 4: I got it. I got a shirt. I got a
18:05
Speaker 4: Cardinal's Territory shirt. I didn't get to talk about it.
18:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, Lance is part of foul Territory end up.
18:14
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are former Major leaguers. You have
18:17
Speaker 1: more gear than you know what to do with. So
18:19
Speaker 1: one of the things that happens every year in Major
18:23
Speaker 1: League Baseball is that there's a new it thing. Okay,
18:26
Speaker 1: like the sweeper a couple of years ago, which has
18:30
Speaker 1: been around under different names over the years. Pitch shaping
18:34
Speaker 1: was a new thing, which is legit, but they started
18:37
Speaker 1: calling it some different torpedo bats. So the new thing,
18:42
Speaker 1: and I heard it from some of the young pitchers
18:45
Speaker 1: at at winter warm up, including Andre Polante, is the
18:50
Speaker 1: kick change. So I don't know if you gentlemen have
18:54
Speaker 1: ever toyed with a kick changes. I understand it. It's
18:57
Speaker 1: a way to get different movement by putting one finger
19:00
Speaker 1: off the ball. So lamps, have you know something about
19:03
Speaker 1: the kick change, can you please explain it to us?
19:07
Speaker 4: As far as I know. It's a way to kill
19:10
Speaker 4: spin by taking a finger off the ball. Some people
19:13
Speaker 4: bend it, some people do will you know, take it
19:15
Speaker 4: off something like that. So it's a way to kill
19:18
Speaker 4: to kill spin rate. But it's also a way to
19:21
Speaker 4: make the right fingers clip the ball. So then it's
19:25
Speaker 4: you know, the seam shift or whatever. If it's for
19:28
Speaker 4: guys who can't quite get it to spin the way
19:30
Speaker 4: they want to, or they have you know, too many
19:32
Speaker 4: RPMs on their change up spin, so they're trying to
19:34
Speaker 4: get to die more so, it's another way to throw
19:37
Speaker 4: a version of a split without throwing a split and
19:39
Speaker 4: risking I think arm injuries too, So there's a lot
19:42
Speaker 4: of positives for it. The question is is you know,
19:45
Speaker 4: is it one of those things where hitters are gonna
19:47
Speaker 4: start seeing the fingers sticking in the air and knuckles
19:49
Speaker 4: sticking in the air and doing things like that as
19:52
Speaker 4: they you know, start seeing it. But you know, it's
19:55
Speaker 4: not something I haven't seen before. It's just something that
19:57
Speaker 4: people have talked about now all of a sudden.
20:01
Speaker 1: Kind and your experience have have you ever heard of
20:04
Speaker 1: something new that the kids at the cool table are
20:07
Speaker 1: starting to do that seems new even though it's everything's
20:10
Speaker 1: been around.
20:11
Speaker 4: In baseball forever.
20:12
Speaker 1: But do you recall ever trying something different that seemed
20:16
Speaker 1: to be a trend?
20:19
Speaker 2: I mean I tried.
20:20
Speaker 3: I tried something that really wasn't a trend back in
20:22
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen and got made fun of it by a
20:25
Speaker 3: few veterans just in joking away doing the throwing sock
20:28
Speaker 3: and the connection ball to kind of clean up my
20:29
Speaker 3: arm path. But something that Vera Lander and a couple
20:32
Speaker 3: other guys had done, you know, more notably, but really hadn't.
20:36
Speaker 2: Caught on yet.
20:36
Speaker 3: So I had to describe why I was carrying a
20:39
Speaker 3: kickball and an o a mint to practice most days.
20:42
Speaker 2: But that was it was just something a.
20:43
Speaker 3: Little bit different, but obviously in that regard that changed
20:46
Speaker 3: my career and probably saved me from having, you know,
20:48
Speaker 3: a surgery that I thought I needed.
20:50
Speaker 2: And then you know, Randy Sullivan at.
20:51
Speaker 3: The Floor Baseball Armory turned me on to it and
20:55
Speaker 3: man changed my career there. But the kick change to
20:58
Speaker 3: me is something that you're finding a way to leverage
21:02
Speaker 3: a specific finger on the baseball in a specific way,
21:06
Speaker 3: and that is not a new thing, but maybe for
21:09
Speaker 3: the changeup is a little bit. But there's always one
21:12
Speaker 3: finger that the baseball comes off last for the most part,
21:16
Speaker 3: and you want to get that finger in the right position.
21:18
Speaker 2: You know. For me, it changed kind of how I
21:20
Speaker 2: looked at certain pitches.
21:22
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two when I realized
21:25
Speaker 3: that my pointer finger did a lot of the work
21:28
Speaker 3: on my fastball, when I kind of thought it was
21:30
Speaker 3: my middle finger, so I shifted my two sting around
21:33
Speaker 3: to make sure my pointer finger was the one leveraging
21:35
Speaker 3: the baseball at release. Same thing kind of with my
21:38
Speaker 3: slider and my sweeper. When I realized that it came
21:41
Speaker 3: off that finger last, you know, through egotronic video like
21:44
Speaker 3: we just showed about the pick change, it kind of
21:46
Speaker 3: changed how.
21:46
Speaker 2: I looked at that pitch.
21:48
Speaker 3: So, whether it's a curveball, change up, fastball, sinker cut,
21:51
Speaker 3: or whatever it is, you've got a finger that is
21:53
Speaker 3: most important in my mind and how it leverages the
21:56
Speaker 3: seam and creates the spin and the movement. So you
21:59
Speaker 3: see people with that finger up. Uh, you know, it
22:02
Speaker 3: changes how those fingers, you know, kick the baseball and
22:07
Speaker 3: kicks the spin to create the movement and the visual
22:10
Speaker 3: to hit her that they're looking now.
22:12
Speaker 1: I didn't mention in our group text that I'm going
22:16
Speaker 1: to bring this up because I forgot, but I did
22:19
Speaker 1: put it on the group text. Did you see Pete
22:22
Speaker 1: Alonzo giving you props? He was out on the Oriole Caravan.
22:27
Speaker 4: And yeah he was.
22:28
Speaker 1: He asked who was the toughest pitcher ever faced, and
22:31
Speaker 1: he said Kyle Gibson. He was oer for seventeen career
22:35
Speaker 1: against Kyle Gibson. But he called you the nibbler.
22:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I can't deny that.
22:43
Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to stay out of the middle
22:45
Speaker 2: of the plate quite a bit later on, especially later
22:49
Speaker 2: on when I was eighty nine to ninety two and
22:51
Speaker 2: not ninety ninety five. So yeah, the Nibbler.
22:55
Speaker 3: I'm excited to, you know, maybe meet the polar Bear
22:58
Speaker 3: at some point and entered introduced myself as the nibbler
23:01
Speaker 3: to the polar Bear. But yeah, that was That was
23:04
Speaker 3: a pretty funny video. I got a kick out of
23:05
Speaker 3: that with my kids and had some people send me
23:08
Speaker 3: that video. One guy from Baltimore actually asked me if
23:10
Speaker 3: I paid him to say that at that caravan, which
23:13
Speaker 3: that is completely false, that's made up. But yeah, you
23:16
Speaker 3: know one of those guys, one of those interesting hitters,
23:20
Speaker 3: like you look back, you're like, man, you know, Peter
23:22
Speaker 3: a loonso really didn't get a hit, you know, for
23:24
Speaker 3: as many homers and as good of a career as
23:26
Speaker 3: he's had, and it's going to keep going. It's kind
23:29
Speaker 3: of a cool little thing to be able to say
23:30
Speaker 3: he kept one of those guys from getting a hit.
23:32
Speaker 1: But did you know, did you know he was oh
23:35
Speaker 1: for seventeen against you?
23:36
Speaker 2: I did, Yeah, I did, Yeah I did.
23:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's one of those guys like but
23:40
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have I wouldn't necessarily have said that. He
23:42
Speaker 3: is one of the easiest hitters I faced, right, even
23:44
Speaker 3: though he's over seventeen. He put together good at bats
23:47
Speaker 3: quite a bit. He probably called me the nibbler because
23:50
Speaker 3: there's a lot of times right through that back door
23:51
Speaker 3: two seem three to two and get it looking strikeout
23:54
Speaker 3: or just something on the edges quite a bit, and
23:56
Speaker 3: he probably felt like he walked back a lot of
23:57
Speaker 3: the times and didn't get a good pitch to hit.
24:00
Speaker 3: But you know, I definitely wouldn't say he's one of
24:02
Speaker 3: the easiest here's I faced, even though he was over seventeen.
24:05
Speaker 3: But yeah, I thought it was a pretty good little
24:08
Speaker 3: throw in where they said that I signed with the
24:09
Speaker 3: Red Sox ten minutes before tune Yeah standard Pete said, well,
24:14
Speaker 3: that's a good thing I'm doing, So that's pretty funny.
24:16
Speaker 1: He's a big, strong guy, not as strong as Stubby
24:19
Speaker 1: Clapp who took him down when they had that little
24:22
Speaker 1: bro lance. Last thing before we let you guys go,
24:27
Speaker 1: is like, you know who you dominated? Is there a
24:29
Speaker 1: guy that you dominated that you're proud of how you
24:34
Speaker 1: were able to take care of, like a name hitter
24:37
Speaker 1: that you dominated. I'm sure there's quite a few on them.
24:40
Speaker 4: I'm going to say that dominated. I don't know. I
24:42
Speaker 4: think I faced mccutching a lot over the years, and
24:48
Speaker 4: I think I had pretty good success against him. The
24:51
Speaker 4: best is when they guys when they tell you they
24:53
Speaker 4: hate facing you, like like Pete did for Kyle there.
24:56
Speaker 4: And I know that Cutch was a guy that I
25:00
Speaker 4: faced a lot. So we had a lot of battles
25:02
Speaker 4: but had some good success. I can see.
25:06
Speaker 1: Very cool gentlemen. Good job again today. That's going to
25:09
Speaker 1: do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory. Stay safe, everybody.
25:13
Speaker 1: We'll see you for the next edition and hopefully that
25:16
Speaker 1: one won't suck.