Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killers Amongst Us: 19-year-old artistic beauty disappears after car found abandoned on bridge. What happened to Sarah Stern? (Part 3)

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Killers Amongst Us: 19-year-old artistic beauty disappears after car found abandoned on bridge. What happened to Sarah Stern? (Part 3) · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here Welcome back to Killers amongst Us,
0:08
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. The disappearance of
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Speaker 1: a gorgeous teen girl, Sarah's Stern, her car found abandoned
0:17
Speaker 1: late at night on a remote bridge, New Jersey, with
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Speaker 1: US Sarah's dad, Michael Stern, local reporter on the story
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Speaker 1: from the get go Alex Napoliello, Lead detective on the case,
0:28
Speaker 1: Brian weiss Brott. Also with US renowned Hollywood psycho analyst's
0:33
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. Last week we ended with police body
0:38
Speaker 1: him footage as they searched the area and Sarah's home,
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Speaker 1: looking desperately for clues. What they find is even more
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Speaker 1: of a puzzle when put together. Could it lead to
0:50
Speaker 1: multiple possibilities? Did she jump from the side of that bridge?
0:55
Speaker 1: Did she run away? Or was their foul play? And
0:59
Speaker 1: if so, Where's Sarah's body? As investigators go on to
1:03
Speaker 1: sift through the clues, the town gathers to search for Sarah,
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Speaker 1: a popular, beautiful, happy, go lucky member of their very
1:13
Speaker 1: tight knit community. Let's pick up the story. This is
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Speaker 1: a small town where travels fast. The cops know obviously
1:23
Speaker 1: a lot of people in this small town. They have
1:25
Speaker 1: a car parked on the bridge, and they quickly find
1:28
Speaker 1: out it's normally driven by a nineteen year old by
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Speaker 1: the name of Sarah Stern. Phone rang around three o'clock
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Speaker 1: in the morning. You know anything about the car? You know,
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Speaker 1: gray Oldsmobile, And I said, yeah, my daughter drives that car.
1:47
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace killers amongst us. A million things go through
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Speaker 1: your mind. You were in Florida. Yeah, we drove from
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Speaker 1: Florida back to New Jersey. Three thirty four o'clock in
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Speaker 1: the morning. Is now traffic, so he can drive pretty quick.
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Speaker 1: Sarah Stern was very well known to the community. The
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Speaker 1: fact that her family was very well known. Sarah was
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Speaker 1: a kid that everybody knew, she was always around, kind
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Speaker 1: of threw everybody off with that car just being left
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Speaker 1: at the top of that bridge, with absolutely no good
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Speaker 1: rhyme or reason as to why no one knew where
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Speaker 1: Sarah was and they didn't know why they couldn't get
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Speaker 1: in touch with her. She was attached to her phone
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Speaker 1: like most nineteen year olds are, and there would be
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Speaker 1: no reason for why her phone was off and she
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Speaker 1: wasn't taking calls, taking text messages on a Friday night,
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Speaker 1: no answer on her phone. Police then immediately started investigating,
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Speaker 1: and this becomes not just an abandoned car on a bridge,
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Speaker 1: but a missing person. There's this nineteen year old girl
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Speaker 1: who has gone off the grid and no one knows why.
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Speaker 1: Where is Sarah Stern? A gorgeous nineteen year old girl.
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Speaker 1: Oh if you could see her, you know what I mean. Beautiful, long,
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Speaker 1: dark silky hair, big, big brown eyes, a perfect smile,
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Speaker 1: everybody's sweetheart. She's an athlete, she's an artist, she's a photographer,
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Speaker 1: she makes good gray. She's the apple of her dad's eye.
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Speaker 1: She lived through the death of her mom, who battled cancer,
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Speaker 1: just to stay here on earth with her. Sarah Stern
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Speaker 1: goes missing. Her car found on an obscure bridge early
3:48
Speaker 1: early morning hours like three am. Why Dad, Michael Stern
3:53
Speaker 1: on a Florida vacation, just one week he's gone and
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Speaker 1: he gets this call, your daughter's car has been found abandoned.
4:01
Speaker 1: He gets in the car three am and starts the
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Speaker 1: drive back to the little shore town in New Jersey.
4:09
Speaker 1: You just heard our friend Amy Roebuck at twenty twenty
4:12
Speaker 1: describing the call Sarah's dad gets in the middle of
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Speaker 1: the night. Well, once they determine that she is not
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Speaker 1: in that car and there's no trace of her on
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Speaker 1: the bridge, they go straight to her home. Listen, there's
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Speaker 1: a teenager that's supposed to be driving it's parked on
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Speaker 1: top of that bridge. Or getting no answer at the house,
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Speaker 1: I have an open door at the house. I'm light up.
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Speaker 1: Go inside and make sure everything is kosher here. I
4:35
Speaker 1: don't want to make sure we don't have a jumper.
4:37
Speaker 1: Anounce yourself a little Well, that's the same bours. Hello, Hello,
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Speaker 1: that's says police go to her house. The back door
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Speaker 1: is open and the lights are on and there is
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Speaker 1: no sign of Sarah. Hello. That is actual body am
5:00
Speaker 1: footage of cops entering Sarah's home. Also our friend Amy
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Speaker 1: Roebock with me now Sarah's father Michael Stern, along with
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Speaker 1: a crime and court reporter from New Jersey dot com
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Speaker 1: and star ledger Alex Napoliello, Doctor Bethany Marshall's psycho analyst
5:17
Speaker 1: from LA you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 1: dot com. And Detective Brian Weisbrot from Mammoth County Prosecutor's Office.
5:27
Speaker 1: To Sarah's dad, Michael, I want to hear through your
5:33
Speaker 1: eyes a description of the home, because I hear the
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Speaker 1: cops rushing in, and yes, cops sound rough and tumble,
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Speaker 1: like they're ready to take you down, and Tay's are
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Speaker 1: you at the first glance? And there's a reason for that.
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Speaker 1: For all they know, Sarah is in the home being
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Speaker 1: held by kidnappers that are armed. They never know what
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Speaker 1: they're going to encounter when they go into a home
5:57
Speaker 1: like that. But when I think of cops breaking down
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Speaker 1: the door of our home with the twins inside, it's
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Speaker 1: a whole different can of worms. So tell me about
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Speaker 1: your home, Michael, Tell me about where they thought Sarah. Maybe,
6:13
Speaker 1: well that was the thing they were looking for Sarah.
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Speaker 1: Nobody seemed to know where she was, so that was
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Speaker 1: that was the biggest problem. Nobody knew you know, whether
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Speaker 1: she was with somebody or you know where she went
6:28
Speaker 1: or what happened, or why the car was up on
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Speaker 1: the bridge. There was no answer. Tell me about your home,
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Speaker 1: single story to story. When you walk in the front door,
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Speaker 1: is that wooden? Is it slate? Is it brick? Is
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Speaker 1: at tabby? What is it? What did cops encounter when
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Speaker 1: they went in as their front porches their driveway. Tell
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Speaker 1: me about it is that a condo is an apartment,
6:51
Speaker 1: a single family house, split level. You walk in the
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Speaker 1: living room, dining room, kitchen, TV room, and bedrooms upstairs.
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Speaker 1: It's basically basically it standard nineteen fifty in the house.
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Speaker 1: I've looked at videos inside your home and everything is
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Speaker 1: perfectly in order, and I'm just imagining the cops going
7:17
Speaker 1: in there. Now. This is one thing that really stuck
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Speaker 1: out to me like a sore thought. The only thing
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Speaker 1: home is her dog Buddy, who she loved more than anything,
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Speaker 1: who normally has his run of the house. And now
7:35
Speaker 1: when they went to go look for her, he was
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Speaker 1: locked in his cream. But the dogs on a cage,
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Speaker 1: So somebody put the dog in a cage. Hello, where's
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Speaker 1: the bartman? She had so much love in her heart
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Speaker 1: for her friends and her family and her dog Buddy.
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Speaker 1: She loved that dog more than anybody I've ever known
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Speaker 1: to love an animal before. Well, I guess that two's
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Speaker 1: gonna have to figure out what their mindset of this
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Speaker 1: kid is. We'll see dog treats anywhere, dude. Maybe I'm
8:05
Speaker 1: looking for the doggee, good dog for the doge call.
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Speaker 1: We went through the whole house. There is nobody home.
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Speaker 1: Our friend Amy Roebuck at twenty twenty joining me right now,
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Speaker 1: Alex Napoliello joining us. Alex described the neighborhood for me,
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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why that one fact about Buddy
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Speaker 1: is driving me crazy. We have a cat, a dog,
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Speaker 1: and two guinea pigs. The guinea pigs stay in their
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Speaker 1: luxury cage and my daughter and son's room. The dog,
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Speaker 1: when he's in the house is either with us or
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Speaker 1: he's in a crate because he will t t. The
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Speaker 1: cat has the run of the house except where the
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Speaker 1: guineas are because she will eat them. So if someone
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Speaker 1: came in our home and they found the cat and
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Speaker 1: the dog in the crate locked up, and us gone
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Speaker 1: in our car off parts somewhere else, you'd know something
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Speaker 1: was very, very wrong. So let me just start with
9:08
Speaker 1: the home and the dog. Alex tell me about the home. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: the home is located in Neptune City. Neptune City is
9:16
Speaker 1: a tight knit community where everyone knows each other's names.
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Speaker 1: It's nestled in between Belmar and Asbury Park is just
9:27
Speaker 1: a couple miles north and most people when they hear
9:31
Speaker 1: the name Asbury Park, they think Bruce Springsteen. So this
9:34
Speaker 1: is a place that people know they're familiar with. You
9:38
Speaker 1: could drive, you know, five ten minutes and you'll drive
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Speaker 1: through several different beach towns if you start from Bellmar
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Speaker 1: and head to Asbury and Neptune City is one of
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Speaker 1: these towns. So Sarah's dog, Buddy, she loved Buddy. People
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Speaker 1: who knew Sarah automatically knew that you would have Buddy
10:01
Speaker 1: by her side a lot. She used to take him
10:03
Speaker 1: for walks on the beach in Bradley, So the two
10:07
Speaker 1: were a familiar Satan town, you know. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: psychoanalyst joining us, Doctor Bethany, this is always I remember
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Speaker 1: when I would walk into any crime scene, and there
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Speaker 1: have been thousands of them now and sometimes and it's
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Speaker 1: not always the case. As you can imagine, I walk
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Speaker 1: into the scene and it strikes me how lovely the
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Speaker 1: home is. And I don't mean expensive or a mansion.
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Speaker 1: I mean you smell good smells there, like something was
10:38
Speaker 1: just cooked, and the beds are made, and there are
10:43
Speaker 1: pictures of the family sitting out and you see evidence
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Speaker 1: of a happy home where you feel like you could
10:52
Speaker 1: just walk in and sit down at the supper table
10:55
Speaker 1: and be welcomed. Yet you know that something is wrong,
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Speaker 1: and the dichotomy is something that was always very jarring
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Speaker 1: to me. Alan Crime says, well, when you say that
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Speaker 1: something's wrong, I mean what's wrong to me is that
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Speaker 1: the dog is in the cage and a nineteen year
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Speaker 1: old is missing. And we all have that sixth sense.
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Speaker 1: We have what I would say right brain thinking. Right
11:22
Speaker 1: brain thinking is when you use your gut, you use
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Speaker 1: your instinct to survey a room. And it's the kind
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Speaker 1: of thinking that's outside the world of symbolism meaning speech.
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Speaker 1: It's in the world of feelings. It's in the world
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Speaker 1: of emotions. And I can imagine I'm not a detective,
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Speaker 1: but a detective, and especially a father with the father's instinct,
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Speaker 1: would walk into a room like that and know immediately
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Speaker 1: that something is a miss Joining me right now from
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Speaker 1: MoMA County Prosecutor's Office, Detective Brian Wife, Detective wisprot thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know why is it?
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Speaker 1: Detective And I don't know if you've seen this over
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Speaker 1: the years. You've been a detective, and that's no easy
12:11
Speaker 1: position to obtain. Typically you have to go through years
12:14
Speaker 1: and years of beating the streets as a beat cop,
12:16
Speaker 1: and then you move up, then you move up, finally
12:19
Speaker 1: you hit the big time with detective. It always seemed
12:23
Speaker 1: to me that is just at the exact moment when
12:27
Speaker 1: you don't want something to happen, that's when it happens.
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Speaker 1: For instance, the dad, Michael Stern, who was with us
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Speaker 1: right now, he finally takes a vacation, he's gone one
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Speaker 1: week and Sarah goes missing. Is it that way across
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Speaker 1: the boards, It's always at a time, seemingly when you
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Speaker 1: feel helpless and there's nobody to give you any answers
12:50
Speaker 1: and you're just out there trying to figure it out. Again,
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Speaker 1: that's absolutely the case. We certainly would have been in
12:58
Speaker 1: a different position had mister Stern and been home, because
13:01
Speaker 1: she likely would have been able to repute us with
13:03
Speaker 1: information as to as to where Sarah, you know, was
13:07
Speaker 1: earlier in the day, who she had planned to be with.
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Speaker 1: We did have Sarah's friend across the street that had
13:15
Speaker 1: an opportunity to see her, and some of the folks
13:18
Speaker 1: at the bank in the area that saw her too.
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Speaker 1: Michael Stern, this is Sarah's dad. Tell me about Buddy
13:24
Speaker 1: and why it was just so bizarre that Sarah would
13:28
Speaker 1: ever leave. Because what struck me and nobody had to
13:30
Speaker 1: tell me this. Michael, I saw that there was a
13:32
Speaker 1: cookie jar, like a human cookie jar, a ceramic cookie jar.
13:37
Speaker 1: I have one, and it's a bewitched would bewitched on top.
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Speaker 1: And they look in the cookie jar. The cops do
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Speaker 1: on the body cam and they take out doggie gourmet
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Speaker 1: doggie treats and they give it to Buddy who's locked
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Speaker 1: in a cage. And it struck me. She's got these
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Speaker 1: gourmet doggie treats and a ceramic cookie jar for people,
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Speaker 1: and they're right there by the dog. Nobody would go
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Speaker 1: to all that trouble to take care of a dog
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Speaker 1: that well and leave it locked up. Tell me about Buddy, Michael, Well,
14:08
Speaker 1: Buddy was the you know, family pett He was ten
14:12
Speaker 1: years old at the time, but as the American fox
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Speaker 1: Town weighed about one hundred pounds, and Sarah's best friend.
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Speaker 1: And Sarah considered Buddy, you know, her brother, and you
14:24
Speaker 1: know he just you know, they loved each other, and
14:28
Speaker 1: you know, Sarah just had a good time with Buddy,
14:30
Speaker 1: stressed him up for Halloween and take him for long
14:33
Speaker 1: walks as that was indicated earlier, and everybody kind of
14:38
Speaker 1: knew her, you know, from around town. She sometimes walked
14:41
Speaker 1: the dog for an hour, hour and a half from
14:44
Speaker 1: Neptune City all the way down to the beach, which
14:48
Speaker 1: is I guess about a mile and a half and
14:52
Speaker 1: then walk along the beach. So a lot of people
14:54
Speaker 1: knew her. And she also worked as a gatekeeper in
14:58
Speaker 1: Bradley Beach, you know, for Badge Cha and you know
15:01
Speaker 1: that previous summer, so a lot of people knew were
15:03
Speaker 1: from there too. So wait a minute, Wait a minute,
15:07
Speaker 1: Wait a minute. She worked with the public at the
15:10
Speaker 1: beach right there. Okay, I'm gonna come back to Buddy
15:14
Speaker 1: the dog, Detective wife brought right there. You know, when
15:18
Speaker 1: you have a young woman that's working with the public,
15:22
Speaker 1: for instance, at a restaurant, at a coffee shop, in
15:25
Speaker 1: a mall, at a beach, they come in contact with
15:31
Speaker 1: so many people. Detective, it's my experience, and I think
15:36
Speaker 1: generally you start in a small and eculeu. It's like
15:39
Speaker 1: you look at the family, you look at the next
15:40
Speaker 1: door neighbor, you look at the boyfriend, the ex boyfriend,
15:43
Speaker 1: and you start moving out. But when you have the victim,
15:48
Speaker 1: the missing person in a melu where there's thousands and
15:52
Speaker 1: thousands of people that she could come in contact that
15:55
Speaker 1: may have gotten a crush on her, that may have
15:57
Speaker 1: been obsessed with her. You got used like looking for
16:00
Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack, then, Detective, Yeah, absolutely, we didn't.
16:05
Speaker 1: We didn't know what we were active facing at the
16:09
Speaker 1: time that Sarah was reported missing. We didn't know, uh,
16:13
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't know if she had left voluntarily.
16:15
Speaker 1: We didn't know if there's any foul play involved. We
16:19
Speaker 1: were certainly searching for, you know, any small pieces of
16:23
Speaker 1: information that we could that we could get to help
16:27
Speaker 1: lead us. Oh Man, detective, why sprout you you got
16:32
Speaker 1: your work cut out for you here? Because what Michael
16:36
Speaker 1: just told me changed the complexion of the investigation completely.
16:40
Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, Uh, you don't have to
16:45
Speaker 1: be fantastically beautiful. You don't have to be special, unlike
16:49
Speaker 1: this girl who is special, who is beautiful. For some
16:54
Speaker 1: nut to get a crush on you and to put
16:57
Speaker 1: it mildly and follow you around, you may not even
17:01
Speaker 1: know they're there. I didn't realize she worked at the beach.
17:04
Speaker 1: She was probably wearing either a swimsuit, or a pair
17:07
Speaker 1: of shorts, or a lifeguard outfits, something like that. Working
17:10
Speaker 1: at the beach, this beautiful girl sing every single person
17:15
Speaker 1: that came in the gate. Oh no, no, no. That
17:18
Speaker 1: changes things, Bethany, Well, Nancy, absolutely, because if somebody saw
17:24
Speaker 1: her in public and started to stalk her, they are
17:27
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to have her email address or her
17:30
Speaker 1: phone or any kind of a device where you could
17:34
Speaker 1: track that person so they could stalk her in secret.
17:38
Speaker 1: Stalking is one of the most serious disorders in my field.
17:41
Speaker 1: We consider it an incurable disorder. And when somebody a
17:45
Speaker 1: stalker develops a fixation on a young woman like Sarah Stern,
17:52
Speaker 1: the desire to stalk never goes away. It can go
17:55
Speaker 1: on for weeks, months, years, and to develop into such
17:59
Speaker 1: an extreme obsession that they want to completely control her.
18:02
Speaker 1: And you and I have talked about this many times,
18:05
Speaker 1: but the psychology of stalking is that the stalker feels
18:09
Speaker 1: that he has a unique and special relationship with the victim,
18:13
Speaker 1: even when there's no evidence to support that, and then
18:16
Speaker 1: he goes after the victim to punish her for perceived rejections.
18:21
Speaker 1: So she's out there in a swimsuit shorts as beautiful
18:25
Speaker 1: as she was and somebody was stalking her, that really
18:28
Speaker 1: makes her a prime target. And you know, Michael Stern,
18:31
Speaker 1: you know I have twins, John, David and Lucy. I
18:34
Speaker 1: don't want Lucy to feel like she can't go to
18:36
Speaker 1: the beach and wear her swimsuit or her shorts. When
18:39
Speaker 1: we're outside and we say that as if somehow it's
18:43
Speaker 1: the girl's fault. It's not the girl's fault. And you know,
18:50
Speaker 1: Sarah just seems like a happy, go lucky person. Did
18:53
Speaker 1: you share the home with her? That was you two
18:56
Speaker 1: live there? Correct? When you heard cop say made it
19:00
Speaker 1: to the home and she wasn't there, what went through
19:03
Speaker 1: your mind? Well, you know at the time you were driving.
19:07
Speaker 1: So we're in communication with the police department in the
19:11
Speaker 1: Neptune city in Belmar, trying to put things together to
19:15
Speaker 1: try to find out where Sarah was. Of course, early
19:18
Speaker 1: in the morning not too easy to get information. But
19:22
Speaker 1: by five o'clock, you know, people were up and you
19:25
Speaker 1: know things were happening, and you know, we just, you know,
19:30
Speaker 1: try to piece things together. I'm trying to imagine that drive, Michael,
19:34
Speaker 1: guys with me. Sarah's dad, Michael Starr, and her only
19:37
Speaker 1: parent since her mom passed away after a battle with cancer,
19:42
Speaker 1: a fierce battle with cancer. I'm trying to think about
19:45
Speaker 1: you in the car. It's three am in the morning,
19:48
Speaker 1: it's dark, pits dark outside. You don't want to say, well,
19:52
Speaker 1: she'll turn up call me in the morning. Oh no, no, no, no.
19:56
Speaker 1: You get in the car and you put the pedal
19:58
Speaker 1: to the metal and starting driving Florida to New Jersey.
20:03
Speaker 1: You say you're in constant contact with the police. They
20:06
Speaker 1: tell you the cars on the bridge. You know that's
20:08
Speaker 1: not right. So, Michael, when you get back home, you
20:12
Speaker 1: drive all night. You get there. What was your first thought?
20:16
Speaker 1: Do you remember walking into the home. Walked into the
20:20
Speaker 1: home and took a look around, looked up in Sarah's
20:23
Speaker 1: room and she hadn't even finished unpacking from the Florida
20:27
Speaker 1: trip the week before when she came back, so her
20:31
Speaker 1: to one of her suitcases was still had most of
20:34
Speaker 1: the stuff in it, and it was still on the
20:36
Speaker 1: floor in her bedroom. Next thing, we just took a
20:39
Speaker 1: look around outside and they went, wait a minute, So
20:42
Speaker 1: she had not even unpacked her backs. What else did
20:45
Speaker 1: you notice, if anything, Well, it's just you know, her
20:49
Speaker 1: room just seemed pretty warm, a little messy, you know,
20:52
Speaker 1: typical of a teenage girl's room. But other than that,
20:55
Speaker 1: it just didn't look like anything was really you know
21:01
Speaker 1: that did anything had happened up in the room. It
21:03
Speaker 1: just looked kind of normal, and you know, the rest
21:07
Speaker 1: of the house, nothing seemed out of place. That was
21:10
Speaker 1: my next question. Did it look like it had been
21:12
Speaker 1: ransacked or untithy or anything broken. Nope, not that, you know,
21:18
Speaker 1: not that I could see. And then they looked around
21:20
Speaker 1: the yard, the backyard, same thing in the um. You know,
21:25
Speaker 1: I couldn't really see much. It was I guess, let's see,
21:29
Speaker 1: it was about seven thirty at night when we got
21:32
Speaker 1: home Saturday night, and just briefly looked around and that
21:37
Speaker 1: was that all we could do. And he's still making
21:40
Speaker 1: phone calls and you know, yeah, but in the house,
21:46
Speaker 1: there's no scuffs on the wall, nothing's broken, nothing's out
21:50
Speaker 1: of place, No rugs all bunched up like something had
21:53
Speaker 1: been dragged or a tussle had taken place, nothing at all. Nope,
21:58
Speaker 1: nothing at all. What did if you don't like when
22:00
Speaker 1: you went in? When I come home and every the
22:04
Speaker 1: house is quiet, that is an eerie feeling to me.
22:08
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm ever at the house without
22:10
Speaker 1: everybody else there. We travel as a pack. So when
22:14
Speaker 1: you walk in and nobody's there, how did that strike you? Well,
22:19
Speaker 1: the only the only one that was here was actually there,
22:23
Speaker 1: the dog buddy, and he just seemed a little out
22:28
Speaker 1: of place, you know, somebody had come over and let
22:30
Speaker 1: him out, stuff like that. Neighbors. You took care of him,
22:34
Speaker 1: you know, for the morning, in the afternoon until we
22:37
Speaker 1: got back. So dog, you know, the dogs seem normal too,
22:41
Speaker 1: but you know it's they don't talk, and I just,
22:47
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Let me ask you this,
22:51
Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought joining me from Mammouth County. Was
22:56
Speaker 1: the door to the Stern home walked or unlocked? The
23:01
Speaker 1: front door was unlocked, the officers were able to get
23:04
Speaker 1: into the home from the other front door. Is that normal, Michael,
23:07
Speaker 1: that your front door would be unlocked? Now not if
23:11
Speaker 1: nobody was on the door would normally be locked, huh.
23:15
Speaker 1: And if Sarah went out, you would turn the lights
23:17
Speaker 1: that you would only leave lake a light on in
23:19
Speaker 1: the living room, you know, in the front entrance or
23:24
Speaker 1: maybe the porch light, but you wouldn't leave any other
23:26
Speaker 1: lights on. And the half turn them off. That's interesting,
23:29
Speaker 1: Detective weisbrot where the lights on are off in the home,
23:31
Speaker 1: the lights were primarily all the lights were on. So
23:36
Speaker 1: from looking at the home from the street, you would
23:39
Speaker 1: think there would be a houseful of people inside. Okay,
23:43
Speaker 1: right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanais joining them from LA.
23:47
Speaker 1: We've discussed this over and over and over, particularly in
23:50
Speaker 1: the case of add on say yet routine evidence. If
23:55
Speaker 1: someone came to our place and the doors were not locked,
23:58
Speaker 1: you would know something is very wrong. It's like pulling
24:01
Speaker 1: up to your home and you see the front door
24:03
Speaker 1: wide open. Okay, that's not right. You know immediately. I
24:10
Speaker 1: even have certain lights that I always leave on and
24:12
Speaker 1: certain lights that are always turned off. So for Michael
24:17
Speaker 1: to get home or the detectives to get there and
24:20
Speaker 1: the front door is unlocked and all the lights are on,
24:24
Speaker 1: you know, that's not the way Sarah would leave it,
24:28
Speaker 1: and I would have defense. Our attorneys argue with me,
24:31
Speaker 1: that means nothing. It means something to me, Bethany, are
24:35
Speaker 1: we really creatures of habited Nancy. The reason it was
24:38
Speaker 1: unusual that they came home, that the detectives showed up
24:42
Speaker 1: the door was unlocked, the lights were on, everything was
24:46
Speaker 1: not in its normal Part of a normal routine is
24:51
Speaker 1: extremely important because patterns and rituals are very important to
24:57
Speaker 1: human beings. So in my private practic I always know
25:01
Speaker 1: which patients are going to show up five minutes early
25:04
Speaker 1: or seven minutes late, Who's going to turn on my
25:06
Speaker 1: waiting room light, who's going to forget to do it,
25:08
Speaker 1: Who's going to spill coffee on my sofa. They do
25:11
Speaker 1: the same thing week after week. When I come home
25:14
Speaker 1: at night, I know if my husband will be here
25:17
Speaker 1: or not. If he's here, I know what lights will
25:19
Speaker 1: be on. Our rituals are grounding to us. They make
25:24
Speaker 1: us feel secure. So we human beings do not change
25:28
Speaker 1: our rituals because we need them to feel regulated. It's
25:32
Speaker 1: not just that Sarah's trying to keep her dad happy
25:34
Speaker 1: by turning off the lights. That's not what it's about.
25:37
Speaker 1: It's that she needs it for a sense of safety
25:39
Speaker 1: and security in the world. So of course it's unusual
25:42
Speaker 1: that everything is not in its normal order. You know,
25:46
Speaker 1: I think I take it over the top, Bethany. I
25:48
Speaker 1: like to have everything, of course, with this many animals
25:52
Speaker 1: and my mother and my husband and the children. There's
25:56
Speaker 1: never anything really in place, but it makes me feel
25:59
Speaker 1: come to to go about a routine. I do this,
26:03
Speaker 1: and I do that, and I do this, then I
26:05
Speaker 1: do that. And Sarah always left the home a certain way.
26:09
Speaker 1: That was her routine. Was there any kind of a
26:19
Speaker 1: note or a message Sarah had left you, Michael, No,
26:23
Speaker 1: no notes, no messages, nothing, Well that was that like her. No,
26:26
Speaker 1: she usually wouldn't leave any note. She would just call
26:29
Speaker 1: or send a text that she was going out or
26:31
Speaker 1: you know, she'd be back or where she was going.
26:34
Speaker 1: But since I wasn't there, it wasn't necessary part and
26:37
Speaker 1: let me know she was going to be home, because
26:39
Speaker 1: you know, I figured she would. You know, she was
26:42
Speaker 1: just doing her normal, her normal thing. And Friday night
26:45
Speaker 1: sometimes she'd go out and you know, they uh with
26:49
Speaker 1: some of her friends and they go for appetizers and Applebee's,
26:53
Speaker 1: or they might just go down and have pizza or
26:57
Speaker 1: meet someplace, you know, and just to have some then
27:00
Speaker 1: he eat and then you know, she wasn't a late
27:03
Speaker 1: night person. Once in a while maybe one o'clock in
27:06
Speaker 1: the morning, twelve thirty, one o'clock, but normally by midnight
27:11
Speaker 1: she was she was back home. When did they tell
27:13
Speaker 1: you they have gone through the home, she's not there
27:16
Speaker 1: and Buddy's in the grate locked up. That was some
27:20
Speaker 1: time early morning, and you know I knew what you know,
27:26
Speaker 1: the police officers that hadn't gone to the home, so
27:28
Speaker 1: you know, they were asking me questions and they just
27:31
Speaker 1: you know, when they started telling me things like Buddy
27:34
Speaker 1: was in his h you know, in his cage, which
27:36
Speaker 1: is you know, he just wasn't in there very much
27:39
Speaker 1: in the last three or four years because she calmed down.
27:43
Speaker 1: You know, when he's puppy, he was, you know, he
27:45
Speaker 1: very curious, ready to run out and take off to
27:49
Speaker 1: do it, could sprint to you know, probably a mile
27:51
Speaker 1: in a minute. But you know, as he got older,
27:55
Speaker 1: he was more docile and just friendly and curious. And
27:59
Speaker 1: he wasn't he just didn't put him in the He
28:01
Speaker 1: just wouldn't be in the cage for any reason. Even yeah,
28:05
Speaker 1: I had read or someone told me that Buddy had
28:08
Speaker 1: the run of the house, so for him to be
28:11
Speaker 1: in the crate was unusual. When would he be in
28:13
Speaker 1: the crate? When would she put him in the crate?
28:15
Speaker 1: Only if there was maybe a lot of people in
28:18
Speaker 1: the house or you know, there was you know, things
28:21
Speaker 1: going in and out, you know, a lot of movement,
28:23
Speaker 1: but in the last couple of years, very rarely. I mean,
28:27
Speaker 1: you know, he just didn't you know, he didn't have
28:29
Speaker 1: to desire here, would go outside, he'd walk out in
28:31
Speaker 1: the front yard, walk around and and come back in.
28:33
Speaker 1: He wasn't he just wasn't in the sprint mode for
28:38
Speaker 1: the last few years, and he just didn't need to
28:41
Speaker 1: be in the in the crate. So if somebody came over,
28:44
Speaker 1: that was you know, maybe he was, uh, you know,
28:47
Speaker 1: wanted to get more friendly with and sniff around and
28:50
Speaker 1: you know, kind of get some feedback from them. You know,
28:53
Speaker 1: we might put him in there just to keep them,
28:55
Speaker 1: you know, just from you know, yeah, we we hardly
28:59
Speaker 1: ever have ours there, and I'll tell you why. We
29:02
Speaker 1: have it all set up with pillows in a blanket.
29:05
Speaker 1: He likes his crate, but he likes being out more. So.
29:09
Speaker 1: I understood that buddy had the run of the house
29:11
Speaker 1: and had only been the crate, like you're telling me,
29:13
Speaker 1: on very rare occasions. So it wasn't like Sarah to
29:17
Speaker 1: put him in there and leave him. No, absolutely not.
29:20
Speaker 1: She just wouldn't. When did you do you remember that
29:23
Speaker 1: moment when you're in the car and the pitch black
29:26
Speaker 1: outside and they tell you we're at the house and
29:28
Speaker 1: she's not here. What happened? Well, it was you know,
29:31
Speaker 1: that's you just I don't know, you just go through it,
29:36
Speaker 1: you know, to think in your mind, like where is
29:39
Speaker 1: she and why didn't you home? And you know, if
29:43
Speaker 1: something was wrong with the car, you know, did she
29:46
Speaker 1: not want to tell anybody? You know, did she run
29:48
Speaker 1: out of gas? Was she embarrassed? And you know it
29:51
Speaker 1: was just hight Now for a while, we just didn't
29:54
Speaker 1: have a clue. So the first thing we did is
29:56
Speaker 1: just contact its neighbors and family to see if anybody
30:01
Speaker 1: at her fromer gusins, you know, local cousins that are
30:05
Speaker 1: you know, within a mile or two in the house,
30:06
Speaker 1: so you know, they might have heard farmer. He might
30:09
Speaker 1: have been out with her. So we just you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: at that point, we just didn't know. So Cyrust are
30:14
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. She's not in her car abandoned
30:17
Speaker 1: on a remote bridge, she's not at home, her dog
30:19
Speaker 1: locked in the crate and now this rears it's ugly here, Okay,
30:26
Speaker 1: she brought over today. I've been can I friend of
30:30
Speaker 1: my mother's stuff to your house. So she wrote a
30:32
Speaker 1: bin of stuff of her mother's to your house. I said, yes,
30:35
Speaker 1: I'll put it in a cubby, and I tried texts
30:40
Speaker 1: in her and nothing. We know that at some point
30:44
Speaker 1: Sarah was taking personal belongings, putting them in bins and
30:48
Speaker 1: distributing them. And on that particular day, the day that
30:51
Speaker 1: Sarah went missing, Sarah went over to the Draper's house
30:56
Speaker 1: and left off some bins of some of her personal items.
31:00
Speaker 1: And as she depressed, as I think, not suicide on anywhere.
31:05
Speaker 1: Do you think I don't know, taking her mother's belongings
31:09
Speaker 1: to neighbors that day, the day she goes missing, joining
31:14
Speaker 1: me of crime and Court reporter from New Jersey dot
31:16
Speaker 1: Com and star Ledger Alex Napoliello. Alex, that is very
31:22
Speaker 1: odd to me. That is a big red flag. Why
31:27
Speaker 1: would Sarah be taking her mom's belongings in bins to neighbors.
31:32
Speaker 1: That's not good. That sounds mord to me, like she's
31:35
Speaker 1: planning to leave town. Just just tell me what you
31:38
Speaker 1: know happened that day just before she goes missing. So
31:42
Speaker 1: on the day before Sarah's carr was found missing, we
31:46
Speaker 1: know that Sarah was collecting belongings and dispersing them, and
31:52
Speaker 1: one of the places she took some of those belongings
31:55
Speaker 1: was to her neighbor's house, the Draper Home, and Aara
32:00
Speaker 1: have been close friends with Carle Draper and her mother,
32:04
Speaker 1: Robin Draper. Robin was almost like a second mother to
32:09
Speaker 1: Sarah after Sarah's mom passed. So these are people she trusted,
32:13
Speaker 1: and so she's taking these belongings. She's with her friend,
32:17
Speaker 1: her best friend, Liam Leah mctaffney, and he's helping her
32:22
Speaker 1: get rid of these belongings. It's it's strange that she's
32:28
Speaker 1: taking belongings and putting them elsewhere, because we don't know
32:33
Speaker 1: why she's collecting these things there. They have been at
32:37
Speaker 1: her house, so we don't know why she suddenly feels
32:40
Speaker 1: the need to take these belongings and start dispersing them
32:45
Speaker 1: outside the home. Yeah. I mean, Alex, that's a huge
32:50
Speaker 1: red flag to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out
32:53
Speaker 1: of la Bethany, I mean, not only is she dispersing
32:58
Speaker 1: I was belonging to her mother. I mean, you know
33:02
Speaker 1: how I hold on to my dad's stuff. I wouldn't
33:06
Speaker 1: dare leave it anywhere else ever, and she's enlisted her
33:12
Speaker 1: best friends. She had two really good friends I always
33:15
Speaker 1: called the three Musketeers, Liam and Preston and her And
33:21
Speaker 1: she has one of her best friends going with her.
33:22
Speaker 1: Why would someone, in your opinion do that, Well, my
33:28
Speaker 1: professional opinion would not be that she's depressed because it
33:33
Speaker 1: takes an enormous amount of energy to gather up possessions
33:38
Speaker 1: and take them to somebody else's home. Okay, so that's
33:41
Speaker 1: not depression. It is something that we commonly see in
33:44
Speaker 1: people who are suicidal, that often they will take their
33:48
Speaker 1: most valuable possessions and give them away. How can you
33:51
Speaker 1: not link suicide with depression. She's not depressed, but she
33:55
Speaker 1: could be suicidal. Now you're talking a lot of psycho
33:59
Speaker 1: lingo to that doesn't make it. Well, when you commit suicide,
34:02
Speaker 1: you are depressed. Actually, people are at the greatest risk
34:06
Speaker 1: for suicide as they're coming out of a depression or
34:10
Speaker 1: if they have a burst of energy. If you're too depressed,
34:13
Speaker 1: you won't be able to kill yourself, But as you're
34:16
Speaker 1: coming out of a depression, then you will have the
34:19
Speaker 1: energy to do it. So you know, ninety percent of
34:22
Speaker 1: people who successfully terminate their life, either have a co
34:25
Speaker 1: occurring substance abuse disorder, which obviously she did not have,
34:29
Speaker 1: or some kind of mental illness common lead depression, but
34:34
Speaker 1: when you're at your lowest point of depression, you won't
34:37
Speaker 1: do it. It is as when you have some burst
34:39
Speaker 1: of energy, like you're on some kind of drug, you're drinking,
34:43
Speaker 1: maybe you've been at a party, maybe something just piques
34:47
Speaker 1: your spirits just enough that you get the courage to
34:50
Speaker 1: do that which you've been thinking of all along. However,
34:54
Speaker 1: if she was suicidal, you would also see a withdrawal
34:57
Speaker 1: from friendships, a lack of interest in normal activities in
35:02
Speaker 1: her life, like a psychological social withdrawal. And I don't
35:06
Speaker 1: see that here, which makes it a very strange clinical picture.
35:10
Speaker 1: I want to go to Sarah's dad, Michael, Michael Stern
35:13
Speaker 1: joining us. Michael, she did not use drugs, She was
35:17
Speaker 1: not a drinker, to your knowledge. Was she depressed? Why
35:21
Speaker 1: would she be putting her mom's belongings in bins and
35:25
Speaker 1: giving them to a neighbor and dragging her friend along
35:28
Speaker 1: with her. Well, that was that was a bit confusing
35:31
Speaker 1: because some of the stuff that was brought over there
35:33
Speaker 1: was only two basically two things that were brought over.
35:36
Speaker 1: The one was a pin that had, you know, like
35:40
Speaker 1: the small collection of stuff that was actually from her
35:44
Speaker 1: great aunt and a couple of her great aunts and
35:48
Speaker 1: papers and a few I don't let go on knickbacks
35:52
Speaker 1: and some paperwork and some stuff from her grandfather who
35:56
Speaker 1: had tapped away on her mother's side. And then the
36:00
Speaker 1: other thing was a box that was actually from the
36:05
Speaker 1: Disney World, which was from the Haunted mansion. It was
36:09
Speaker 1: a tombstone that was in a box that was a
36:14
Speaker 1: plastic thing, but like a hallway decoration. This one fact,
36:18
Speaker 1: Michael has thrown the whole investigation on its ear. Joining
36:23
Speaker 1: me Detective Brian Weiss brought from the Mommouth County Prosecutor's office.
36:27
Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought that to me. I'm thinking, Okay,
36:32
Speaker 1: did she jump, But there's no history of depression. She
36:36
Speaker 1: was very brave through her mom's passing and soldiered on
36:41
Speaker 1: and rebirthed herself through photography and art, made all these
36:45
Speaker 1: close friends. I don't see her as being depressed. She
36:49
Speaker 1: was very outgoing when she worked at the beach, So
36:52
Speaker 1: that leads me to she's leaving town. But now with
36:57
Speaker 1: this taking possessions to a neighbor for safekeeping. What did that?
37:01
Speaker 1: What do your mind when you heard that, Detective. Yeah, so,
37:04
Speaker 1: when we had learned that Sarah was packing up their
37:07
Speaker 1: belongings and bringing them over to a neighbor's house, we
37:11
Speaker 1: obviously we were highly concerned about that, especially considering the
37:14
Speaker 1: fact that her car sat on the bridge. We don't
37:17
Speaker 1: know where she is, um, you know, we had a
37:20
Speaker 1: lot of discussion about that, is she was she giving
37:24
Speaker 1: her belongings away because she didn't need them anymore or
37:26
Speaker 1: didn't want them anymore. We certainly didn't know why she
37:29
Speaker 1: was doing that at the time, and that's certainly was
37:32
Speaker 1: something that we had to work through. Take a listen
37:35
Speaker 1: to our friend Amy Robot. It definitely never made sense
37:38
Speaker 1: to me. She loved everyone, so for her to leave
37:41
Speaker 1: without a trace and not say goodbye to a friends
37:44
Speaker 1: and family, that's that's not Sarah. That wasn't Sarah. Her
37:48
Speaker 1: ability to disappear and move to Canada and create some
37:50
Speaker 1: fake identity was never really plausible. The suicide angle of
37:56
Speaker 1: it was a little bit more believable. Michael, What do
38:00
Speaker 1: you make of the theory that she had committed suicide
38:03
Speaker 1: because she was depressed. Well, when I talked to her
38:06
Speaker 1: the night before, she wasn't depressed, and there was nothing
38:10
Speaker 1: out of the normal, was Sarah. She just seemed like
38:12
Speaker 1: your regular self. That was about it. No indication at all,
38:19
Speaker 1: And that's what her friends say, Doctor Bethany Marshall. Are
38:22
Speaker 1: there always indicators of a potential suicide because people always
38:28
Speaker 1: go we didn't see it coming. And I had a
38:31
Speaker 1: very dear friend commit suicide and at the time I
38:35
Speaker 1: was like, I can't believe he did this. I didn't
38:38
Speaker 1: see it coming. But in retrospect, when I look back,
38:43
Speaker 1: there were plenty of red flags because what you see
38:46
Speaker 1: is isolation, withdrawal, numbing, loss of pleasure, and things that
38:51
Speaker 1: normally are normally pleasurable, disinterest in everyday activities, hopelessness, despair.
38:58
Speaker 1: In my experience as the people who really intend to
39:04
Speaker 1: prematurely end their lives do not tell other people about it.
39:08
Speaker 1: They keep it a secret and they always have a
39:10
Speaker 1: firm plan. Those who are just hopeless talk about it
39:15
Speaker 1: all the time. There's two kinds of suicidality. One is
39:18
Speaker 1: where the person thinks, boy, I would be better off
39:21
Speaker 1: if I were dead, and they have fantasies about it.
39:23
Speaker 1: But they would never do it. The second type is
39:26
Speaker 1: where the person really intends to end their life and
39:30
Speaker 1: then they really don't talk about it because they know
39:32
Speaker 1: that other people will interfere. But the thing about Sarah Stern,
39:37
Speaker 1: she was full of life, full of activities. She had
39:41
Speaker 1: interest in everything that was going on around her. People
39:45
Speaker 1: who are suicidal are withdrawn and disinterested. That's what we
39:49
Speaker 1: primarily see. Well, that would not be Sarah. And then
39:54
Speaker 1: out of the blue and the theory that she left
39:58
Speaker 1: to go meet a friend, a boyfriend in Canada to
40:05
Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought from Mommouth County, that's a real
40:10
Speaker 1: that's a that's a real lead, a solid lead because apparently,
40:14
Speaker 1: you know, she was so involved in the video world
40:17
Speaker 1: and Canada was a big influence in those various um
40:23
Speaker 1: online communities that she was a part of. So I
40:26
Speaker 1: could absolutely see her connecting with somebody online. Detective. Yeah,
40:30
Speaker 1: Sarah had visited Canada just about a month and a
40:34
Speaker 1: half prior to her disappearance. We knew and understood Canada
40:39
Speaker 1: to be a place that Sarah was comfortable. We knew
40:42
Speaker 1: she had friends there that she met from the online community,
40:46
Speaker 1: and that that was a place where she aspired to
40:49
Speaker 1: ultimately move to. The One thing that we learned as
40:53
Speaker 1: the investigation progressed was that Sarah had a very solid
40:57
Speaker 1: understanding that she couldn't just crack up one day and
41:01
Speaker 1: moved to Canada. That she had to have a plan.
41:03
Speaker 1: She had to have a job, she had to have
41:05
Speaker 1: a car, she had to have money, you know, she
41:08
Speaker 1: had to you know, have the means to live and
41:10
Speaker 1: survive there on her own. So it was more of
41:13
Speaker 1: a out a short to a long term goal. Oh, detective, detective, detective,
41:21
Speaker 1: are you trying to apply common sense to a team
41:25
Speaker 1: girl that thinks she's in love? Because that is just
41:29
Speaker 1: not going to work. Okay, I've even learned that with Lucy,
41:32
Speaker 1: my daughter, the eleven year old Frankly John David too. Yeah,
41:36
Speaker 1: you'd think you'd know, you need a car, you need
41:38
Speaker 1: a job, you need a way to support yourself. You
41:40
Speaker 1: don't just take off for Canada. That's me and you talking.
41:44
Speaker 1: That's not an eighteen year old a team girl talking.
41:48
Speaker 1: So not only are police investigating the theory that Sarah
41:52
Speaker 1: was depressed, but now speculation mounts that she's taken off
41:58
Speaker 1: for Canada. Listen to Amy Rowe. She seemed very happy
42:01
Speaker 1: and she asked me to hang out that night. Carly
42:03
Speaker 1: Draper had an encounter with Liam and Sarah the day
42:07
Speaker 1: Sarah went missing, and she was telling me that she
42:10
Speaker 1: wanted to move to Canada. She hugged me and I
42:15
Speaker 1: was like, love you them. She was like, love you too,
42:17
Speaker 1: And that was the last time. I said. Michael Stern,
42:20
Speaker 1: had you ever heard anything about her friends in Canada? Uh? Yeah,
42:25
Speaker 1: they were basically the internet, you know, the social media
42:30
Speaker 1: yet but there was a few few friends up there
42:33
Speaker 1: that she knew. Some of the people she had met
42:36
Speaker 1: up there were actually from other areas that they met
42:38
Speaker 1: at the VidCon convention in Toronto. So it was oh,
42:43
Speaker 1: oh wait, wait wait. You know how things when you
42:45
Speaker 1: go on a vacation and you meet somebody on vacation,
42:49
Speaker 1: you're away from the real world. Nobody's working at the
42:52
Speaker 1: donut shop or going to school or their job, and
42:55
Speaker 1: it just seems so wonderful. Okay, that throws another wrench
42:58
Speaker 1: into it. Joining me is Alex Napoliello. Alex, tell me
43:04
Speaker 1: about any connections between Sarah and Canada that you managed
43:08
Speaker 1: to unearthed. Yeah. So, after Sarah went missing, we spoke
43:12
Speaker 1: to a number of friends at that she had met
43:16
Speaker 1: at these conventions, these digital media conventions. UH one had
43:20
Speaker 1: told me that they were planning on having a vigil
43:24
Speaker 1: in Toronto in Canada for Sarah. And these these people
43:29
Speaker 1: loved Sarah. They had They didn't have much interactions in
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Speaker 1: person because they only had that short time at the
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Speaker 1: conventions to interact with her. But she kept in constant
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Speaker 1: communication with these folks that she met the Internet and
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Speaker 1: FaceTime chatting and internet texting and all that kind of
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Speaker 1: online interactions. So she was very close to these people
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Speaker 1: and they loved her. They had they had when when
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Speaker 1: they heard the news that Sarah had dominate saying they
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Speaker 1: were deeply upset. Many of them went to YouTube. Some
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Speaker 1: people who have millions of followers went to YouTube to
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Speaker 1: express how sad they were of the news of Sarah's disappearance.
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Speaker 1: So this was the community that, although was not close
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Speaker 1: by geography, was very close with one another through the
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Speaker 1: internet communications that they had. Well, you do not want
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Speaker 1: is your team girl getting hooked up with somebody on
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Speaker 1: the internet, someone that would lure them from home, waiting
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Speaker 1: till their dad's out of town for a week and
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Speaker 1: then Suddenly, bam, she's gone. Amidst the Canada search, amidst
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Speaker 1: theories of suicide and depression, the search intensifies. Right there
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Speaker 1: at home, Nancy Grace signing up Good Nights