Latest / Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson / Healing Horses, Healing Humans: Dr. Janet Varhus on Ulcers, Posture & Equine Well-Being | EP 35

Transcript

Healing Horses, Healing Humans: Dr. Janet Varhus on Ulcers, Posture & Equine Well-Being | EP 35 · Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

0:00
Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World.
0:02
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling
0:05
author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land.
0:08
Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge
0:12
thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen.
0:15
I have a request.
0:16
If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend.
0:22
It really helps us get this work done.
0:24
As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad.
0:27
And over the last 20 years, we've developed several
0:31
equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs.
0:35
If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning.
0:40
com.
0:41
So without further ado, let's meet today's guest.
0:46
Welcome back.
0:47
Alright.
0:48
Many of us in the equine assisted world are somewhat not lost, but are
0:55
not confused necessarily, but let's say spoke for choice in many of the
1:01
options that are available to us in terms of our horse's wellbeing and these
1:08
equine partners that we rely upon to give wellbeing to the monkeys, to the
1:13
humans that are coming through our door.
1:15
No matter whether we're doing our work mounted or unmounted or with direct
1:19
contact or within direct contact.
1:22
We all know that equine wellbeing is paramount, but it can be let's say
1:27
increasingly difficult to discern what certain bottom lines are.
1:32
And if you are someone who's come to the horse, the horse late in
1:36
life it can be even more difficult.
1:39
And there's a lot of conflicting philosophies out there as
1:42
always in the horse world.
1:43
So how does one bring it down to certain denominations of fitness soundness,
1:50
mental and physical emotional wellbeing?
1:54
And how does one combine the really solid old school horsemanship, which,
1:59
you know, has existed for thousands of years and created, you know.
2:04
Very, very healthy horses and newer ideas, more holistic
2:08
ideas, which are equally valid.
2:11
And how does one bring those together rather than see
2:13
them as two separate camps?
2:14
Now I'm very lucky today to have Dr.
2:17
Janet Vaus, even though she spells her name V-E-R-H-U-S.
2:22
It's spelt as if it was an a Va Hus because it's a Norwegian name.
2:27
But she's not Norwegian.
2:28
She's,
2:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:28
it is spelled with an A
2:30
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, it is spelled with an a.
2:30
Oops.
2:31
The, I stand corrected.
2:33
I had it written as with an E.
2:36
Alright, so forget everything I just said.
2:38
It's Va Huss spelled with an A, it's a Norwegian, but she's not Norwegian.
2:42
It's a Norwegian origin name.
2:44
And Janet has spent decades in veterinary practice but has also been in influenced
2:51
by the likes of heavily influenced by the likes of Linda Ellington Jones.
2:55
She'll be very familiar as a sort of patron saint really, of what we do.
3:00
And also a dear friend of Mark Rashid and Chrissy McDonald, who are
3:05
definitely people who have, many of us know, have advanced, you know, the
3:08
fields of equine wellbeing a lot in the past 15, 10, or 15 years or so.
3:13
And it's, it's rare that we get someone who really can give us a
3:19
roadmap through the traditional and the holistic the experimental,
3:24
the new, the old, and really.
3:26
Give us some guidance in this.
3:27
So listen up guys, because there's gonna be tons and tons and tons of really
3:31
good practical information in here.
3:32
Don't miss out.
3:33
So Janet, thanks so much for coming on the show.
3:36
Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and how you came
3:40
to be the sort of vet you are?
3:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
3:44
So I love the mountains.
3:46
So when I graduated from vet school in Iowa, I went moved west to,
3:52
to Utah where women veterinarians were a rarity back then.
3:59
What year was that?
3:59
Do you
4:00
Rupert Isaacson: remember?
4:00
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
4:00
It was in, huh?
4:01
82.
4:02
What year was
4:02
Rupert Isaacson: that?
4:03
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
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1983.
4:04
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
4:05
Yeah,
4:05
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
4:05
actually I first went there in 82.
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So I was the third female vet in the state and the second one was my classmate
4:14
that got there two weeks before me.
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Rupert Isaacson: So you like a challenge?
4:18
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
4:18
Yes, and I went to the south end of the state.
4:21
So, seven years later I moved to Montana and I was still the only woman south
4:28
of Provo, which is 300 some miles.
4:32
Okay.
4:32
So I practiced after a year I practiced in my own clinic solo.
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'cause I had met my husband in Utah.
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And so I stayed and opened my own practice for six years.
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Which was, was rough being in a rural area and being a small, petite woman.
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But we moved to Montana and I call that my childbearing years.
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So I had two kids.
4:58
Mm.
4:58
And then his job moved us to Colorado.
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So we've been here for over 30 years now.
5:05
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
5:05
And just tell us quickly what your husband does.
5:08
'cause I think that also gives a bit of context to your
5:12
life there in the mountains.
5:13
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
5:13
Yeah.
5:14
My husband's a civil engineer and he worked for the Forest Service.
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So that at least brought us to really pretty areas.
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Hmm.
5:22
And and it was, you know, we live up in the mountains now in Salida and it's
5:27
been great 'cause I can be at a trail with my horse in about 15 minutes.
5:33
Mm-hmm.
5:35
So it's, it's a nice area.
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It, so I ended up working as relief for a few years and then
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I joined an older rancher vet.
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And you know, I, I love the old school and, and I was so impressed with how loyal
5:55
the clients were and how, how loving, you know, the community was to him.
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And eventually he was well in his eighties when he retired and I.
6:06
Bought it out the practice and built a new clinic.
6:09
So I had my own practice for about 20 years.
6:13
And through this time as you said, when I was in Montana,
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I met Linda Tillington Jones.
6:18
And I guess the backstory, when I was in Utah, I got into endurance writing.
6:24
So Dr.
6:25
Kerry Ridgeway and Linda Tillington Jones were big in endurance at that time.
6:29
Everyone pretty well knows Linda and Dr.
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Ridgeway was a chiropractor, an equine chiropractor early on was
6:38
very active in the endurance.
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Ended up developing an acupuncture technique to release fascia.
6:44
So they, they were my heroes, my icons.
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And in 92, my daughter was five weeks old and I loaded her up with my horse
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and went and met Linda Tillington Jones.
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And you know, basically changed my trajectory with horses.
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And and so then I've, you know, worked with her ever since, well, with about
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a 10 year hiatus of raising kids and and have got to know her really well.
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And so over the years, my dream was to work with these two people.
7:22
And I would say they influenced me very early on.
7:26
Rupert Isaacson: Let me ask you a couple of questions.
7:27
Obviously, I'm Linda's a one of our dearest friends and, you know, has
7:35
generously, generously supported all we've done with Horse Boy Method and our other
7:41
programs, basically since the get go.
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And as you know, she's one of these people who gives of herself massively,
7:48
and we've had her on the show.
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So for those listeners who don't yet know much about Linda Tillington Jones,
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you really, really need to, and please go listen to that, to that podcast.
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There's actually two of them, one on this show, one on my other
7:59
podcast live free, ride free.
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But just right now, for those listeners who are less familiar with her, can
8:05
you give me sort of in your own words what you, what drew you to Linda?
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Because I think this is gonna help people to understand where you stand as a vet
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and what, what do you feel her work does?
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Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
8:23
Well, what drew me, I mean, she was just a front runner in, in ways
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to work with horses that probably, you know, resonated with me.
8:35
Mm.
8:35
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
8:35
And and the interesting thing as I've moved through my career and learning
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more and more modalities, I've learned the scientific justification or proof
8:49
of so much of what she's taught.
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And I guess for my science brain, I'm not into evidence-based medicine
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so much, but I really appreciate seeing the science back, the things
9:03
that she's taught for so many years.
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Rupert Isaacson: What, can you be a bit more specific?
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What science have you seen that that backs what she does?
9:11
Again, this is helpful for re for our listeners, I think.
9:15
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
9:15
Yeah.
9:15
Let me think of, well, the most recent I did a posture rehab course,
9:20
which was pretty mind blowing, where it combines basically everything
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I know into posture and how that's affects the wellbeing of the horse.
9:31
And Linda so much emphasizes, you know, relaxing where the head's at getting
9:39
them to relax in the neck bringing their head down having them feel safe.
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And all that strengthens their back, brings their back and the
9:50
belly lifts bringing their back up opening up the, the withers.
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So with kissing spines, you know, you have to open up the, the withers and,
10:00
and it's just, it's the reason, part of the reason that things change so fast
10:07
is because when their posture is better, they're in a more sympathetic state.
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So it just becomes this circular thing of the horse feeling safe,
10:18
being relaxed, being in good posture and then able to function in a,
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you know, whatever they need to do.
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So, it's, it's just been kind of a little mind blowing, but, you know,
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I never doubted what Linda taught.
10:35
It's just nice to see it
10:36
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
10:37
Validated.
10:37
Yeah, absolutely.
10:39
And I think we'll return to her a couple of times in the course of this.
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One of the other things which listeners you may not be aware of Linda pioneered
10:46
something called T Touch which she actually learned from it had come down to
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her from effectively Russian gypsies as a way of calming horses and making horses
10:59
feel good in challenging circumstances.
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And she tells that story herself on the podcast.
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I, I don't want to steal her thunder, but it's very interesting
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how these lineages come down.
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If you think about what Russian gypsies are or were, those, were
11:15
the people of the step who of course were the first force tribes.
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So of course knowledge coming from there would be useful.
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But it's so easy to lose.
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The thread of where the actual horse tradition comes from.
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You know, we, we all who ride horses ride horses that basically go back as a genetic
11:36
throwback as far as we can see, to a tribe called the Cinta who were living somewhere
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in that region of western Russia.
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Or at the beginning of the Bronze age, end of the neolithic time.
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So between four and 5,000 years ago.
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And pretty much every horse that we ride was Sele.
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It goes back to horses that were selectively bred for the
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higher weather and trainability by this tribe in this area.
12:00
So, you know, we are all benefiting from, from these lines that come through.
12:04
And it can get confusing because it can think, oh, this is a Linda
12:07
Tallon Jones thing, and Linda herself would say, no, no, no.
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It happens to have my name.
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But actually it's a much older tradition and one can see how these traditions,
12:19
of course, are so practical, you know, horses were needed for survival.
12:23
There's no woowoo in it, even though it seems that there is,
12:29
because if there were only woowoo, it simply wouldn't have survived.
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The people would not have passed it down because we monkeys
12:37
are more practical than that.
12:38
We tend to get rid of things that don't work.
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So again, it's, I like what you say about that science now vindicates what
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Linda and before her, these Russian step people, we're teaching because it just is
12:54
gonna make it more available to people.
12:56
Tell me a little bit about Kelly Ridgeway and I'm not, I'm less familiar.
13:01
What was her work, why did it attract you and how has it influenced what you do now?
13:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
13:06
Dr.
13:07
Carey, it was man he, he did some endurance and then he was a chiropractor
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and started studying the fascial trains.
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And, and I studied with him.
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I mean, he was pretty amazing at what he did.
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He was good friends with Linda as well.
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And his, his goal, which he didn't succeed before he passed, was to find
13:35
the one point that would release all the fascia, but he was pretty close.
13:40
You know, that just a few distal points, and you can make a huge
13:44
change in the fascial planes.
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He was, he, he said in the class that when he'd started doing this, he found that he
13:55
only had to adjust one or two vertebrae.
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So as I'm not a chiropractor, that wouldn't mean much coming
14:03
from me, but for someone who had.
14:07
Done chiropractic so many years and one of the first acupuncturists,
14:11
veterinary acupuncturists.
14:14
That was a profound statement that I always remember about every time
14:19
I work, you know, I just look for the points I need to help the horse
14:25
release and adjust themselves.
14:27
Rupert Isaacson: What, what are those points and why should we be
14:30
concerned about fascia with horses?
14:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
14:33
You know, I guess it's whatever doctrine you wanna believe, but I've always kind of
14:40
thought that if you can relieve the soft tissue, that's what pulls things away.
14:46
And and so if you don't work on the soft tissue first, it doesn't make sense to me.
14:52
Which, like I said, I'm not a chiropractor, so somebody may
14:56
need to educate me, but to adjust the bones without making the soft
15:00
tissue not pull it back out of place doesn't make sense to me.
15:05
And these points are there's a lot of 'em that are about an inch above the
15:09
ting, points above the coronary band.
15:13
And it was pretty interesting 'cause once I worked with him, you
15:18
know, once you see something, now I, now I can find these points.
15:23
Never knew they existed.
15:25
But it, it's, I'm always surprised and, there are some YouTube
15:32
videos he made before that.
15:34
I know there's one, there's a shoulder point that's in the
15:38
pectorals and it will le release the shoulder and the neck on that side.
15:44
There's a GV point, a point up in the hip behind the lumbosacral junction
15:51
that will release the whole hind end.
15:54
And those two points right there, you've helped release two thirds of the horse.
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Rupert Isaacson: And when you, when you release them, how do you do it?
16:03
Are you doing it through Accu?
16:04
Are you doing it through pressure?
16:05
How, how are you doing it?
16:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
16:07
You can do it all that.
16:08
I'm a acupuncturist, so I'm a purist.
16:10
I like sticking needles in.
16:12
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
16:12
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
16:12
I sometimes use a laser pointer on the horses that don't like that.
16:18
He also developed a technique and through an acupuncture exam to to
16:24
diagnose ulcers in horses and, okay.
16:28
His wi his widow has an online course to do that, and I, I teach that a lot
16:36
because you don't have to scope them.
16:38
I find it pretty accurate.
16:40
And if I diagnose a horse with withers or with ulcers, then we can
16:46
also tell how our therapy's working.
16:49
Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us a, a bit of an a 1, 2 3 of
16:52
how you would do that diagnosis?
16:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
16:54
There's a, there's a series of points and I take a needle cap, which you can
16:59
take, you know, something fairly firm and I stroke like up over the shoulder.
17:07
I always think of a, a racing saddle.
17:10
So you go around the back partway up in the girth area, you know, lots
17:15
of girthy horses would have ulcers.
17:18
You can also stroke behind the last two ribs and you've got liver 14 and
17:25
another point their stomach 35 down on the midline or just off the midline.
17:31
That point can be dangerous.
17:33
I've had a horse that I thought about checking that point and it's cow kicked.
17:39
I, I didn't even get within a foot of that point.
17:43
And that horse is like, you're not going there.
17:46
And then there's a point up on the hip that depression behind the
17:51
hip bone up above the hip bone.
17:55
It, there's, there's diagrams to show.
17:57
Okay.
17:58
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
17:58
But it, it's, and if it's on both sides, you tend to make what tells you
18:03
Rupert Isaacson: when you are, when you are on those
18:04
points that Okay, it's ulcers.
18:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
18:07
Yeah.
18:07
So then those points are specific for ulcers.
18:11
And so I'll always check a horse.
18:13
At the beginning to find out, because as Mark Rasht has said, horses can't
18:20
separate physical from emotional.
18:23
So a lot of horses that are floated hot or hard to handle just have ulcers.
18:29
And if we address those, and those horses don't usually like needles.
18:34
So I'll use my laser pointer.
18:36
Okay.
18:36
And once I treat those points, they'll calm down and I can do whatever I want.
18:41
Rupert Isaacson: What, what I'd like to know though, is when you go to
18:46
that point with your needle or with your laser pointer, what in that
18:50
point tells you, okay, it's ulcers?
18:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
18:54
Well, it's the series of points that I check.
18:57
Is it a reaction
18:58
Rupert Isaacson: in the horse?
18:58
Is it the feeding tissue?
19:00
Yes.
19:00
The horse will react.
19:00
Okay.
19:00
They'll be tender.
19:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
19:02
Okay.
19:02
They'll be so with an acupuncture exam you check reactive points.
19:07
Mm-hmm.
19:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
19:08
And then that will tell you help you pinpoint where the pain is, which is,
19:12
it's really sad that in traditional veterinary medicine, they don't
19:17
teach this information because it opened up a whole different world
19:22
for me on diagnostics with my hands.
19:25
I I, you digressing to dogs.
19:28
I had a dog come in that was not doing well.
19:32
Pretty vague.
19:33
Nothing.
19:33
He was real acute.
19:34
So.
19:36
I was trying to decide if I should do blood work or treat
19:38
it symptomatically and its liver points on its back were very tender.
19:44
So I did blood work and the dog ended up in early liver failure and, you
19:50
know, I would've totally missed it.
19:52
So those are the kind of things that I'd like to teach the owners because you can
19:57
tell a lot about the horse and how you're
20:01
Rupert Isaacson: doing.
20:01
So you, you can teach owners to go over various points in their horse.
20:07
Yes.
20:07
See what the reactions are, and then if they get certain reactions,
20:12
what would then be the thing to do?
20:14
So let's say they go over these ulcer points and they
20:18
find the horses tender there.
20:19
Okay.
20:20
Maybe the horse has ulcers, then what's the next stage?
20:24
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
20:24
I like to use laser pointer.
20:26
And, and I There are specific points then on the body that
20:32
you can, acupuncture or laser.
20:35
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
20:36
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
20:36
And those will help relieve the ulcers.
20:38
Rupert Isaacson: Even, even as a non-qualified practitioner, as a horse
20:41
owner, you could learn to do this.
20:43
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
20:43
Yes.
20:43
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
20:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
20:44
You just you know, by law veterinarians put the needles in, but you can use a
20:48
laser pointer, you can use a pressure.
20:50
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
20:51
You can use your, your fingers or your thumb or touch.
20:53
Yeah.
20:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
20:54
Acupressure is, is a lay person's.
20:58
Rupert Isaacson: Technique.
20:59
So the reason I'm very encouraged by this is if one thinks about where you
21:05
went in, which was endurance, you know, endurance of course, that the emphasis
21:10
on fitness and soundness is enormous.
21:15
And because you're not going in there for like a short round like you would
21:18
in show jumping or even a modern day dressage, you, you, any, any holes
21:26
in the fitness or the soundness are gonna knock you out and the horse
21:29
out of the game similar to eventing.
21:32
But it, it, it, again, it's very practical, no-nonsense sort
21:37
of basis from which to build.
21:41
It's very similar to the background I grew up with, which was hunting,
21:44
eventing, team chasing, point to pointing where again, the fitness
21:48
and the soundness was everything.
21:50
You either could or you couldn't do it depending on how fit or how sound your
21:53
horse was, there was no in-between really.
21:56
So we were all had stuff about muscle building, soundness and fitness
22:01
drilled into us from quite young.
22:04
And it wasn't until I got, I, I, I jumped a little bit
22:07
semi-professionally in America when I, earlier on when I was there.
22:12
And I was shocked at how unfit and unsound horses were sometimes, for sure
22:17
not everywhere, but sometimes, I realize, oh, I see that that stuff isn't really
22:22
taught outside of like the fox hunting or endurance or eventing worlds where
22:27
people know because that's the culture.
22:30
And within equine assisted work, a lot of people are not
22:33
coming out of those cultures.
22:34
So how would they know?
22:35
So the fact that you're coming from that is very encouraging to me because
22:40
again, we are getting, in our field mostly donated horses and donated horses
22:45
often come with injury, old injuries, their thoroughbreds off the track.
22:49
You know, they're gonna come with ulcers, possibly.
22:52
They're going to come with bone stuff, they're gonna come with tendon stuff.
22:56
And if they're sport horses, they're gonna come with back stuff, or western horses,
23:00
they're gonna come with back stuff.
23:01
Among the other things that they could have.
23:03
So I, I like the fact that you're starting from that basis of what's
23:10
going on with your spine, what's going on in your stomach and your gut.
23:14
Let's look at this first, because this is the part of the body which
23:21
is most in contact with the human.
23:22
In fact, apart from the head and the, and the nose.
23:25
It's where you sit.
23:26
It's what carries you.
23:28
It's where your legs are wrapped and so on.
23:31
So even before we think about the legs and the brain.
23:35
And of course it's affecting the brain.
23:36
So, okay, so you, you come in through endurance.
23:39
You, you, you encounter Linda TTouch, you encounter Carrie you begin to learn
23:46
the acupressure, the acupuncture but you're still running a regular practice.
23:51
What happens next?
23:52
What, how do you take this?
23:55
These which at the time are seen as very woowoo.
23:58
Now they're more mainstream, but at the time, back in the eighties, we know that
24:01
people would absolutely roll their eyes and poo poo at the word Accu acupuncture.
24:06
They were not acupuncture schools, you know, in every city like there are now.
24:10
Insurance was not covering acupuncture like it does now.
24:13
You know?
24:13
You are right there at the pioneer, and as you say, you're a petite woman
24:16
running a practice in the mountain west with a lot of people who are going to
24:21
be looking at that, the skepticism.
24:24
Talk to us about those years and how you built your practice and,
24:27
and where it went from there.
24:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
24:29
I think the thing that, in hindsight I realized a couple things was that
24:36
one, I, I started my own practice fairly early out, so I thought if I
24:42
didn't know how to treat something, it was because I just didn't know.
24:46
So I needed to find out.
24:49
So I would, you know, we didn't have internet, but I would call.
24:53
Colleagues, I would, you know, read books.
24:56
I would find ways to figure it out.
24:59
And, and, and most of my career I practiced solo, which I realized in
25:06
talking to Mark Rashid, he made a comment about he grew up working with horses
25:12
without a lot of outside influence.
25:14
Mm.
25:15
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
25:15
And I, it dawned on me, I grew up as a veterinarian without a lot of
25:20
outside influence, so I could bring to the table whatever I wanted to.
25:26
And so I was kind of, you know, I grew up with the Dr.
25:29
Doolittle books.
25:30
I wanted to talk to the animals.
25:32
I wanted to, you know, be able to see what they needed.
25:35
And one time when I was working with Linda, she said,
25:39
you are not like normal vets.
25:41
I had no yardstick to measure that by.
25:45
Okay.
25:46
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
25:46
And I didn't know what she was talking about.
25:49
And it wasn't until my practice here grew and I hired other
25:54
veterinarians that I started understanding that I was different.
26:00
And I saw things different.
26:01
And I rely a lot on clinical experience and a lot less on evidence-based medicine.
26:10
And and so that's kind of what led me down that track and, at one point I got really
26:17
ill, and acupuncture had always fascinated me from the time I was in vet school and
26:25
it was just coming to the United States.
26:27
And so acupuncture basically saved my life.
26:32
And then I needed to know why it worked, 'cause of the way my brain works and
26:37
be able to offer it to my patients to,
26:42
to not give them the drugs I wouldn't take.
26:45
And, and I've been fortunate to have a strong intuition.
26:50
I used to call it the God who looks after stupid veterinarians, but an inner voice
26:55
that would kind of often wake me up in the middle of the night and tell me, oh,
26:59
that cat has the plague, or whatever.
27:02
So that I, I had a very strong intuitive hit that if I did
27:06
Western medicine, I would die.
27:09
It wasn't a fear, it was a knowing.
27:11
So I, of course, I went to acupuncture and within one treatment I wasn't
27:16
well, but I was significantly improved.
27:20
And so that really took me to acupuncture.
27:24
And everything has just one thing has led to another.
27:28
To most recently the posture rehab, which is a lot what Te Touch does,
27:34
what does the acupuncture does?
27:36
It's kind of bringing it all together.
27:38
You
27:39
Rupert Isaacson: said you wanted to, you needed to find out why acupuncture works.
27:42
Why does acupuncture work?
27:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
27:44
And then there again, it's through the fascia.
27:47
There are meridians, energetic meridians, and they've been proven throughout the
27:51
body and the Chinese, just iit, I don't know how they came up with it, but it's
27:59
a technique that's over 2000 years old.
28:02
Mm-hmm.
28:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
28:02
And and by putting a needle into those meridians at certain points, and they've
28:08
dissected those, and that's where their nerve bundles, there are a lot
28:13
of things that cross at those points.
28:16
They, they have an anatomical significance and so that can affect
28:23
the whole meridian and Reba, the body has a unique ability to live on this
28:29
planet, and so that helps rebalance the body in its own innate wisdom.
28:38
Rupert Isaacson: When you are presented with horses that are that have
28:45
stories behind them, have a past, do you have a kind of a, because in our field
28:51
that's mostly what we're dealing with.
28:53
Do you have a kind of a 1, 2, 3 that you, you more or less always start with
28:58
you, you kind of go in there going, I'm probably gonna first start here
29:03
and then I'm gonna first start there.
29:04
Or maybe there's like patterns of horses that you've come to
29:09
recognize over the years that, you know, it could be this type, oh,
29:12
this is a pattern one type horse.
29:14
I'll start like this, this is a pattern two type horse.
29:16
I'll start like this.
29:17
And you can sort of see that simply by a quick glance and you
29:22
kind of know, okay, I'm probably gonna start with this approach.
29:26
I'll revise that approach.
29:27
If, you know, that doesn't tend to be turn out to be the case, but let
29:31
me start here through, from your experience, you walk into the, you,
29:38
you, you walk into a barn, you look around you, what do you see normally?
29:45
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
29:45
When I go in with a new horse, I usually stop and I observe
29:52
what's, where's the head at?
29:54
What's the posture?
29:56
Okay.
29:57
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
29:57
Are they comfortable?
29:58
Not, and I will connect you know, and I sometimes I even say, I see you.
30:06
Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.
30:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:08
I, I think it's important that they know who I am.
30:11
As important as I see who they are.
30:14
Mm.
30:17
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:17
And, and I, you know, where did you,
30:20
Rupert Isaacson: did you, did you come up with that yourself?
30:21
I see you?
30:22
Or did someone teach you that?
30:25
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:25
I think just through the training.
30:27
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
30:28
You
30:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:28
know, working with the different people like Linda, you, I've picked that up.
30:32
Mm-hmm.
30:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:33
But I, you know, I have horses of my own and definitely they
30:37
have been my hardest teachers.
30:39
Yeah.
30:40
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
30:40
And, and so I've learned to slow down the one mayor I have, I, I
30:47
can't say I liked her very much, and we didn't get along because she
30:51
came when I was running a three vet practice and was highly stressed.
30:56
And she's half Mustang, so she's like, I don't wanna be with you.
31:01
And so I, I practiced loving her in my meditations.
31:06
And I started noticing when I would go out to the corral that
31:11
she met me in a different way.
31:13
And I think that's probably the biggest influence was I mean, I used to have
31:21
to meditate for an hour to be able to go out into the corral to Wow.
31:24
Groom her.
31:25
I mean, I
31:26
Rupert Isaacson: that bad.
31:27
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
31:27
Yeah.
31:28
Yeah.
31:28
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
31:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
31:29
And and so, yeah, and, and it was very fun the last time I had her at
31:33
one of mark's in Chrissy's clinics.
31:36
Was Mark repeatedly saying all through the 10 day, that horse really likes you.
31:42
That horse wants to be with you.
31:44
She feels safe with you.
31:46
And he didn't know all that with her.
31:50
But
31:50
Rupert Isaacson: up until that point, you, you feel that really she'd
31:53
just been responding to your stress, the stress that you were under.
31:56
She was a
31:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
31:56
mirror.
31:57
Yeah, totally.
31:58
And she's a big part of where I'm at now, but it's been some really hard lessons.
32:05
But
32:06
Rupert Isaacson: okay.
32:06
Just, just back then to you, you go into a barn, you observe, you
32:10
slow down, you observe, but you look, you, the first thing that
32:13
came out of your mouth was posture.
32:17
So talk to us about that.
32:20
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
32:20
You know, how they stand or how they want to stand, tells you a lot
32:23
of how they feel is their head up their feet camped underneath them.
32:30
Some people call that goat on a rock.
32:32
Mm-hmm.
32:32
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
32:32
They should have at least three legs straight up and down.
32:37
And, and so you, you know, if you just stop a minute and take
32:42
time to just notice, you don't, you don't make a judgment.
32:46
You just say, this is where they're at today.
32:50
And then I you know, I usually start with the ulcers points and, and work.
32:58
I may not do a lot.
32:59
I just want them to meet me and to trust me and see that I'm gonna help.
33:05
Rupert Isaacson: What percentage of horses that you come to do you think have ulcers?
33:12
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
33:12
Probably at least half.
33:13
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
33:15
And where do you think those ulcers mostly come from?
33:20
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
33:20
Management.
33:21
I mean, certainly like I, not to stereotype, but the off the track
33:27
thoroughbreds that have been turned into hunter jumpers to me are the, the ones
33:32
that I get maybe 'cause at the rescue or, or you know, they get passed down,
33:37
they've just not been listened to.
33:39
They've not been heard, and no one has slowed down to take the
33:43
time to connect, gain their trust, and then teach them to move on.
33:49
And we have a few of those at the ranch and it's just, it's wonderful to see
33:53
them blossom where they, you know, when they've slowed down, address the
33:58
ulcers, address the body mechanics.
34:02
It, it's fun to watch those horses bleed.
34:04
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, do you feel that most of those ulcers
34:07
are coming from stress or just from the wrong foods or both?
34:11
Or what's the main It's a combination.
34:14
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
34:14
Yeah.
34:14
I think a lot of it's stress just because our husbandry doesn't
34:20
often doesn't meet the horses'.
34:23
Native requirements.
34:24
And if they have an injury or something that adds, and then the food you
34:29
know, we can go down a whole rabbit hole of the contaminated food and the
34:35
Rupert Isaacson: go down that rabbit hole a little bit.
34:37
Tell us a little bit about con what you mean by contaminated food.
34:41
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
34:41
Well, my biggest, I think the number one issue is is glycosate in, in grains.
34:49
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
34:50
Interesting.
34:51
Glycosate Roundup.
34:53
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
34:53
Roundup, yes.
34:54
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
34:54
Agent Orange.
34:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
34:56
Yeah.
34:56
So it's sprayed on grains you know, corn, wheat, soy right before harvest to
35:04
desiccate it so they get bigger yields.
35:08
Rupert Isaacson: I see.
35:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
35:08
And that's putting it right into the food supply.
35:10
I mean, this is true for dogs, cats, people, horses.
35:14
Yeah.
35:15
Horses are a little better, and I think I'm lucky in Colorado because
35:20
the ranchers up here tend not to spray things on their fields.
35:25
And we're kind of at the top of the world.
35:28
Our water runs down and our contaminants run down to everybody else, but we don't,
35:33
Rupert Isaacson: are they not, are the farmers up there not spraying because
35:35
they feel a sense of responsibility for the people in the water table below them?
35:39
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
35:39
I would say it's probably more not necessary.
35:43
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
35:43
Because it's dry.
35:45
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
35:45
It's dry.
35:46
Okay.
35:46
And a lot, you know, some of the hay fields are are native
35:51
okay.
35:51
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
35:51
Grasses.
35:53
But then when you go buy your package, feed your senior, your
36:00
not to name names, and I, I go to the feed store, I read labels.
36:04
I mean, when I'm bored and don't wanna come home and clean
36:07
house or something, I will
36:08
mm-hmm.
36:09
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
36:09
Read dog food labels, horse food labels.
36:11
And, you know, I recently had an older horse with not much teeth, and I was just
36:15
mortified at the, on the shelf diets for horses because it will, it will say, you
36:24
know, grain byproducts or it doesn't even tell you what's in it and not Well that,
36:28
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
36:29
How do you know it's, they're not gonna say glyphosate probably, are they?
36:31
So how do you spell No,
36:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
36:33
no.
36:33
And, and it's, there's no certification that says that they're glyco free.
36:40
Fake free.
36:41
And if it's non GMO, that doesn't mean anything because they spray
36:46
the glycosate before harvest.
36:50
It doesn't matter if it's GMO or non GMO.
36:52
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
36:53
So how do you know if you're buying, how can you discern between a glyphosate
36:58
food and a non glyphosate food?
37:01
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:01
They stay away from grains.
37:04
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
37:04
Is you think they all have
37:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:06
it.
37:06
So I, I assume they all have it
37:09
Rupert Isaacson: and unless
37:10
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:10
it's organic.
37:11
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
37:13
Now it's easy to say stay away from grains.
37:17
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:17
Yeah, yeah.
37:17
No, but
37:18
Rupert Isaacson: it's not easy to do.
37:20
If you say, okay, well I'd like to buy organic grains, but they're
37:28
significantly more expensive.
37:31
What would be plan B?
37:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:33
Humic acid will remove will denature.
37:37
Glycosate
37:38
Rupert Isaacson: what?
37:38
Acid again?
37:39
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:39
Humic acid.
37:41
H-U-M-I-C.
37:42
Rupert Isaacson: Humic.
37:44
What is humic acid?
37:47
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:47
I don't, I'm not a chemist.
37:50
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, okay.
37:50
I'm gonna,
37:51
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:51
it's fascinate that, but it's
37:52
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, how do you, how do you buy it where you, you buy?
37:55
So there's a product
37:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
37:56
I, you can spray it on fields and it will denature roundup where it's been sprayed.
38:02
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
38:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
38:02
So, I think it's relatively low cost and obtainable.
38:06
Rupert Isaacson: How does one obtain it?
38:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
38:08
You can get ion, which is a brand that makes that for humans.
38:15
You know, I put my dogs on it.
38:16
I assume we all have it unless tested otherwise.
38:22
And interesting.
38:23
A, b, C plus.
38:25
Advanced biological concepts makes a horse mineral supplement that has that in it.
38:33
Rupert Isaacson: So you would mix a small amount of this with
38:36
any grain standard grain feed?
38:39
Yeah.
38:39
Yeah, yeah.
38:40
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
38:41
As a supplement.
38:42
Mm-hmm.
38:43
Rupert Isaacson: I'm just gonna read out what AI has given
38:45
me because I just Oh, good.
38:47
I just typed humic acid into my phone.
38:49
It says, humic acid is a naturally occurring organic substance found
38:55
in soil peats, oceans, and fresh waters derived from the decomposition
39:01
of plant and animal matter.
39:03
It's a dark brown substance with large men, large molecular weight, mostly
39:09
insoluble in water at high pH values.
39:12
Humic acid plays a crucial role in soil health, nutrient
39:16
availability, and plant growth.
39:19
How, how is it known that it's, it neutralizes glyphosate?
39:25
I do see here that it says humic acids can collate, IE
39:30
bind to and take outta the body.
39:33
Nutrients, especially iron, making them accessible to plants.
39:35
Is it a collating agent or, yeah, I
39:38
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
39:38
would think so.
39:39
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
39:41
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39:44
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41:00
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41:03
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41:08
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41:12
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41:15
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41:23
absolutely gives you this.
41:25
How did you find out about it?
41:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
41:28
Oh, that, that was another rabbit hole.
41:30
Okay.
41:30
I do ozone therapy.
41:32
Huh
41:32
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
41:32
And I mean, I've known about it, but I went to the Ozone conference and there
41:37
was a two hour presentation on Glycosate.
41:40
Okay.
41:41
And that's where I really became convinced of the seriousness of it.
41:46
And the, and it gave me hope that there is a way if people will stop using
41:52
Roundup to get it out of our soil again.
41:55
And, and I think regenerative farming is doing that.
42:00
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
42:01
So interesting.
42:02
Would it also be there in alfalfa
42:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
42:07
if they spray it?
42:08
But probably not.
42:09
Because if they sprayed Roundup on alfalfa, it would
42:12
Rupert Isaacson: kill the alfalfa, not,
42:14
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
42:14
it would kill the alfalfa 'cause.
42:15
Right.
42:15
Rupert Isaacson: So if someone's feeding up alpha pellets, for example.
42:18
So I think, I think the hay
42:19
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
42:19
is cleaner.
42:21
Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh.
42:21
I
42:21
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
42:21
did see a study done on dog food where they measured the amount of
42:26
glycosate in it and it ranged from like 50 parts per million to over 800.
42:34
Okay.
42:35
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
42:35
And there again, it was how much grains were in the food.
42:40
Okay.
42:40
Kind of told how bad it was.
42:43
Rupert Isaacson: And for those listeners who aren't familiar
42:45
with glyphosate and it's not great thing just type it into Google.
42:52
But, bayer, the German pharmaceutical company who recently, or in the last,
42:59
not so recently in the last 10 years, bought a roundup from, as a product
43:04
from, I forget which American company was staring down the barrel of a
43:09
gun with potential, you know, mass class action lawsuits about people
43:14
dying left and right from glyphosate.
43:16
Well, buyer are now staring down that very same barrel and I think have
43:20
just had to do a very big settlement.
43:22
I think, I think, I think I might even look it up now.
43:26
So don't underestimate glyphosate and the need to deal with it.
43:32
What, so do you think back to horses with ulcers, do you think the ulcers
43:37
are causing the, the, the, the glyphosates causing the, causing
43:40
the ulcers, or is the glyphosate causing other, other problems too?
43:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
43:44
I always think it certainly is causing other problems.
43:48
It's hard to think that it's not affecting the ulcers because it affects
43:55
the gut biome and the gut bacteria.
43:58
So especially we see a lot of hind gut ulcers in horses.
44:03
So it, it certainly isn't going to help the situation in Right.
44:08
I'm
44:08
Rupert Isaacson: just looking here, by the way buyer, it's a 611
44:12
million judgment against Roundup.
44:15
Make our buyer.
44:16
Upheld by the Missouri Appeals Court a day one day ago.
44:20
And of course what that does is it opens up the, it opens up the company
44:26
to lots and lots of other lawsuits too.
44:29
But this has been brewing for, for decades.
44:31
By the way, Bayer also brought us, you do you know, the other wonderful product?
44:34
Bayer brought us in the early 20th century.
44:38
You might know if you, it's just a, a fun little trivia fact,
44:43
right?
44:44
Rupert Isaacson: Heroin, they invented heroin.
44:46
Oh.
44:47
Rupert Isaacson: And they, I didn't know heroine as opposed to held in,
44:50
which is Yeah, it's German company held in, would be a heroine as we
44:55
think of a female hero, you know, in German they call it heroine because
44:59
it was supposed to be a non-addictive form of laden, you know, opiate.
45:04
So it's basically the fentanyl of its day.
45:05
And well, the rest is history, isn't it?
45:08
So well done.
45:08
Bio.
45:09
So yeah, we are not on team glyphosate.
45:12
Yeah.
45:13
But it's good that you draw our attention to this because I think
45:16
you know, we don't wanna shame people from running bonds on a budget.
45:22
And what one has to do is give people, you know, a more accessible roadmap to
45:29
how to find the better products, you know, so, or mitigate the less good products.
45:35
So the fact, for example, that you talked about the humic acid.
45:38
Supplement if someone has, is buying cheaper grains.
45:41
This is really useful for people, I think.
45:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
45:44
Yeah.
45:44
And I think the hay pellets are kind of a great thing that have come out because
45:51
a lot of horses don't need the grains.
45:53
You can feed the hay pellets.
45:55
Mm-hmm.
45:55
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
45:55
They're gonna be a lot lower in glycosate and the horse.
46:00
It's more natural to what the horse has evolved to eat.
46:06
So I, I think the grain products have been way over pushed.
46:12
That most horses really don't need that.
46:15
Right.
46:16
Maybe the
46:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
46:16
higher performance.
46:17
I get that.
46:18
But I think they're, I think there's just better ways Mm.
46:24
To help them.
46:26
And if you maintain their weight,
46:27
Rupert Isaacson: it's alfalfa, pate's better choice than most grains.
46:31
If only for the fact that they're not gonna have the glyphosate contact
46:36
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
46:36
that and they're gonna be produced less a higher pH in the gut where it
46:43
needs to be, you know, balancing that because the grains, you know, affect
46:48
the gut biome as well and causing acid.
46:52
'cause they're acid type effect.
46:53
Huh?
46:54
Rupert Isaacson: Because they're more acidic.
46:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
46:56
Yeah.
46:57
The way they, they encourage different bacteria in the, in the hind gut.
47:02
There's not supposed to be grains in the hind gut.
47:04
And so it, you know, it's just the way horses have evolved was not to eat grains.
47:11
And so we do, because we ask a lot performance wise, but a lot of
47:17
horses are not being asked to perform hard, but yet are fed those brains.
47:25
Right.
47:25
So it's kind of, being more aware of, of what they really need.
47:31
And
47:32
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I think I'm gonna go, go, go to what Do
47:34
horses really, really need it?
47:35
I'm actually gonna ask you that question in a minute.
47:37
But talk to us a little bit about the hind gut.
47:39
What is the hind gut and why do we need, so
47:42
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
47:42
the hind gut is the horses have a very large, large intestine where it
47:46
ferments food like a cow has a rumen.
47:51
So it's the large intestine in the cecum.
47:54
Okay.
47:54
So it's part
47:54
Rupert Isaacson: of the large intestine.
47:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
47:56
Yes.
47:57
It's, it, the cecum is in there.
47:59
So it's all the large in, what's the seum,
48:01
Rupert Isaacson: tell us about the seum.
48:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
48:02
The cecum is kind of a dead end pouch.
48:06
It's quite large.
48:07
It would be this equivalent of our app appendix.
48:09
Mm-hmm.
48:10
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
48:10
Only it's huge in a horse.
48:13
And that's where the grasses and stuff get fermented.
48:17
Okay.
48:19
And that's what its intent is.
48:21
Okay.
48:22
So if you feed a high grain diet.
48:24
Okay.
48:24
Then it gets there in the hind gut and that tends to change the pH.
48:32
It's, it was not intended to ferment grains.
48:35
Okay.
48:36
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
48:36
And does that then cause inflammation?
48:39
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
48:39
Yes, for sure.
48:40
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
48:41
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
48:41
And then, you know, that causes a cascade of mm-hmm.
48:44
Of things.
48:46
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
48:46
Very interesting.
48:48
These are really nice, clear answers for people.
48:52
And also I, you know, I love the fact that you're giving alternatives
48:56
and alternatives that are easy to find, not obscure supplements that,
49:00
you know, might cost a million bucks and you can't get at a feed store.
49:04
Okay.
49:05
So we want to look after the horse's hind gut.
49:08
We don't wanna ferment grains in there, if possible, because we don't
49:13
want to affect the pH balance there.
49:16
And we don't wanna cause inflammation, which as you say, can lead to what
49:21
we know inflammation can lead to.
49:23
Where you talked about the horse's basic requirements, the horse's basic needs.
49:27
What are a horse's basic requirements?
49:30
We might think it's patently obvious, but even if it is patently
49:34
obvious, tell us what they are.
49:36
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
49:36
Well, they're, they're herbivores, so they eat grasses alfalfa.
49:42
They can have it's higher protein.
49:45
If they need that they need salt and it's better to have, you know, natural salt
49:54
than that white iodine, salt, and minerals free, free choice is the ideal world.
50:02
But that's not always easy to do in management.
50:06
But they don't require a whole lot more in the wild, the herbivores.
50:11
They would eat the herbs that they need.
50:13
And I find that fun in treating horses.
50:17
Because of my Chinese medicine background, I use a lot of herbs
50:22
and that's getting more popular.
50:24
But I used, I love to watch them graze
50:28
and
50:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
50:28
see what plants they eat today
50:30
mm-hmm.
50:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
50:31
And what plants they eat two weeks from today.
50:33
Mm-hmm.
50:35
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
50:35
It, it, it, it just fascinates me because they have that
50:37
ability to know what they need.
50:40
Rupert Isaacson: It's we're doing this podcast in early June of 2025.
50:44
So you're up there in the mountain pastures.
50:47
What, what are the herbs that they're currently eating?
50:49
What were they eating two weeks ago and what are they eating now?
50:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
50:54
I haven't done this for a while, but I I, I find dandelion is one of 'em
51:00
that they will eat and this is liver.
51:03
We're just coming out of liver time of year.
51:05
Hmm.
51:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
51:06
So, you know, if you go the circadian calendar you know,
51:10
you could pick herbs from that.
51:13
I don't always know what plants they're eating.
51:15
I just noticed that,
51:17
Rupert Isaacson: but tell us what you've noticed.
51:18
Yeah,
51:19
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
51:19
so I would, I walk my gilding 'cause we don't have a lot of pastures.
51:22
So I'd walk in down the borough ditches and he would eat all the alfalfa plants
51:28
'cause we don't have that on our property.
51:31
And then a couple weeks later, he was kind of looking like maybe
51:34
he would colic or he was off.
51:37
Mm-hmm.
51:37
So I thought, well, something green would be good for his gut.
51:41
So I took him walking.
51:43
He would not touch the alfalfa plants.
51:46
He was going for the grasses.
51:48
He would only eat dandelions some of the time.
51:53
Not, not every, all the time.
51:55
Sometimes he would leave them.
51:57
I've, I've watched him in the mountains eat things that I don't think are edible.
52:02
Okay.
52:03
And, and they're fat on them.
52:05
You know, so it's, I I wish I was a better botanist that I could to
52:10
pick out those different plants.
52:12
Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting.
52:13
My we had a superb vet growing up in Leicestershire, which
52:18
is similar to Virginia.
52:19
In the USA, it's fox hunting, jumping.
52:25
Sporty horsey area, but for, you know, the last three, 400 years or more and large
52:33
animal agriculture area, you know, beef, cattle, that sort of thing, and sheep.
52:37
And so we, a lot of the vets in the old days, there were horsemen and
52:43
our vet always used to say, yeah, you always want to call in Dr.
52:47
Green.
52:48
Don't call me, call Dr.
52:49
Green.
52:49
And what he meant was, turn your horses out on the most natural pastures
52:54
that you can, pastures that have not been treated pastures that have
52:57
not been fertilized pastures, that have not been planted with ryegrass.
53:01
And a lot of the stuff, which, particularly at the end of the
53:06
winter when they need their immune systems built up again.
53:10
And he says, Dr.
53:10
Green will take care of most of the stuff.
53:12
If Dr.
53:12
Green doesn't cure it, then call me.
53:15
And he was so right.
53:16
The, but not everyone has access to that kind of pasture.
53:22
Not every horse, of course, thrives on the type of rich limestone
53:25
pastures that, you know, are thoroughbreds and hunters thrived on.
53:30
That can be too much for some horses.
53:32
And as you know, a lot of pasture is non-native planted monoculture.
53:40
So knowing that.
53:44
What are the herbs?
53:45
If, if your pasture isn't herb herbaceous and the horses can't
53:50
just go find what they need what do,
53:55
if you were going to suggest to someone who is running a barn particularly with
54:01
senior horses that you know, as a lot of therapy bonds are, that need a bit
54:06
more support, what would be the sort of go-to hubs that you must, you might
54:10
say, Hey look, just be aware that you might wanna have these, these, these,
54:13
these and these kind of in your armory that you might go and buy in your
54:18
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
54:18
bulk.
54:19
I, I saw something recently that I thought was very clever, was a raised bed
54:25
where they raised, they grew some herbs.
54:27
Mm-hmm.
54:27
And they had a, a wire over it and the horses had limited access to it every day.
54:34
But they could pick which ones they wanted.
54:37
And, and that to me, I think I've
54:39
Rupert Isaacson: seen this.
54:39
Yeah, it's clever.
54:40
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
54:40
Is, is a short a short version.
54:43
I use a lot of slippery elm or marshmallow root licorice for ulcers.
54:48
They heal mucus membranes.
54:51
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
54:52
So,
54:52
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
54:52
the, you know, going back to the ulcers, a lot of, there's a lot of
54:58
ulcer guard and I, I don't remember all the names, but the drugs don't.
55:04
They stop stomach acid, but horses produce acid all the time.
55:11
Unlike people because they're grazers, they their stomach just so if you,
55:16
Rupert Isaacson: so they need it.
55:17
Stop the acid production.
55:19
Right.
55:19
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
55:19
You get, you get a rebound effect.
55:21
So you get more acid production.
55:23
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
55:24
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
55:24
So the, the, it's great if you have a horse that's colicking due to
55:27
ulcers, but you need to do something to heal the mucus membranes.
55:33
And so those are the some common herbs I use.
55:37
You know, there's dandelion milk thistle to kind of help the liver because it's
55:42
stressed getting all those grains.
55:44
Rupert Isaacson: And are you buying those as dried herbs that
55:46
you're just putting a pinch?
55:47
You can, there's,
55:48
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
55:48
there's some really good herbal companies that have come out in, at least I've been,
55:53
become aware of in the last few years.
55:55
Mm-hmm.
55:55
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
55:55
That, you know, you don't have to be an herbalist.
55:58
You can there's, there's just some good companies making those and you really need
56:05
to tailor it to what your horse needs.
56:08
Mm.
56:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
56:08
You know, I can't give a blanket statement because they all come
56:12
from different constitutions.
56:15
Different,
56:17
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, sure.
56:17
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
56:17
Even if they're in the same barn, they just are not, but being aware of
56:21
Rupert Isaacson: herbs and herbal supplements is a good place to start.
56:23
We can agree with that.
56:24
Yeah.
56:24
I membrane.
56:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
56:29
Yeah.
56:29
And, and you know, balancing the, the gut biome, the, with
56:34
probiotics if they need it.
56:35
Be aware if you put 'em on antibiotics, you're gonna mess that up.
56:39
So what are you gonna do to fix it?
56:41
Mm-hmm.
56:41
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
56:41
You know, or, or things that we need to start being more aware of.
56:46
I, I find I don't use many drugs anymore in my practice.
56:54
Rupert Isaacson: What, so you're, you're using a combination
56:56
of things like acupuncture, acupressure, the use of the herbs.
57:00
Is there anything else that we haven't covered that is a, a bit of a
57:04
go-to that you use in your practice?
57:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
57:07
Yeah, my, my number one go-to is a low level laser.
57:12
And it's what?
57:13
Laser?
57:13
A low level laser.
57:15
Rupert Isaacson: A low level laser.
57:16
Now tell us what that is.
57:18
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
57:18
So there's kind of, lasers is a big term that incorporates LEDs and true lasers.
57:27
And then there's cold lasers, which don't heat like a surgical laser.
57:31
Mm-hmm.
57:32
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
57:32
But those of us with this type call it low level because it does not heat the tissue.
57:41
It works at wavelengths of light that cells function at.
57:46
And and then I can, it's, the one I have is made by UIA and it's a class two
57:52
Rupert Isaacson: by who.
57:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
57:54
Aia, E-R-C-H-O-N-I-A,
57:58
Rupert Isaacson: aia.
57:58
Okay.
58:00
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
58:00
And I think Christy calls 'em my magic wands, but they,
58:04
Rupert Isaacson: that's Chrissy McDonald listeners who you that we
58:08
have a great po couple of podcasts with her and Mark Rashid, who you
58:12
need to know about their work as well.
58:13
Okay.
58:13
Just that an aside for sure.
58:15
Okay, so tell us again, low level lasers made by ocon.
58:18
They're your magic wands.
58:19
Why?
58:20
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
58:20
So they're, they're class two, which means class tubes, the classification of lasers.
58:26
Class fives are surgical lasers.
58:29
Okay.
58:30
A
58:30
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
58:30
lot of veterinarians have class fours, which are FDA clearance by the same
58:36
way under the co cover of a heat lamp.
58:39
Okay.
58:39
That
58:40
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
58:40
they heat the tissue, so they help with pain in inflammation with
58:44
the class twos, the light, you can program different frequencies.
58:50
So different frequencies can resonate with different kinds of cells.
58:56
Like a tuning fork would resonate with notes.
58:59
Right.
59:00
And so I use combination of frequencies and
59:04
Rupert Isaacson: how do you know which frequencies to, to use?
59:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:07
A lot of them are based on rife frequencies.
59:10
Rupert Isaacson: On what?
59:11
Frequency?
59:11
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:11
So everything.
59:12
Huh?
59:13
Rupert Isaacson: On what frequencies?
59:14
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:14
Rife.
59:15
RIF.
59:16
Rupert Isaacson: What's a ri?
59:16
What's a rife frequency?
59:17
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:17
So there was a.
59:19
Rife machine that years ago Dr.
59:22
Rife started and he, he accumulated frequencies that of different things
59:31
like a nerve cell homeopathics everything vibrates at a frequency.
59:38
Mm-hmm.
59:39
And so those are just known frequencies for, you know, bacteria, whatever.
59:44
And do
59:45
Rupert Isaacson: you know what off the top of your head, what
59:47
some of those frequencies are?
59:48
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:48
Nine is nerves.
59:50
Rupert Isaacson: One more time.
59:52
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:52
Nine
59:53
Rupert Isaacson: is nerves.
59:55
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
59:55
Yeah.
59:55
I think
59:57
42 is inflamma is swelling.
1:00:01
Edema.
1:00:02
I used to know 'em, but the newer mega have a memory.
1:00:04
These
1:00:04
Rupert Isaacson: mega, when you say nine, what are these?
1:00:07
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:00:07
Number nine,
1:00:08
Rupert Isaacson: but nine.
1:00:09
So the light
1:00:10
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:00:10
blinks at nine.
1:00:13
Nine milli.
1:00:14
Nine hertz.
1:00:16
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:00:16
So these are very, very slow vibrations, sort of.
1:00:19
They can
1:00:20
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:00:20
be, or, or the sympathetic for people is 213.
1:00:26
So with this laser I do they al
1:00:29
Rupert Isaacson: always add up to 3, 6 0 9?
1:00:32
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:00:32
No, no.
1:00:33
I just, my memory does.
1:00:35
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:00:37
Only because, are you familiar with something called the Sulf Scale?
1:00:42
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:00:42
Yes,
1:00:43
Rupert Isaacson: a little bit.
1:00:43
For those listeners who are not it was banned or parts of it were banned
1:00:48
by the Catholic Church in the 16th century, but a lot of Gregorian Plain
1:00:51
song, a lot of early Christian music is actually in the Sulf Regi scale.
1:00:56
And there are certain frequencies that, that, that it's a scale of
1:00:59
notes that they're usually at higher frequencies of, and they almost
1:01:03
always add up to three, six, or nine.
1:01:04
In fact, I think they, they do, if they're on the Sulf Regi scale and different ones
1:01:08
seem to affect us emotionally in these different ways, and that, so much so that
1:01:13
the Catholic church got annoyed and said, these are connecting people with God.
1:01:17
We can't have that, so we're gonna ban some of this.
1:01:21
So
1:01:21
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:01:21
yeah, I do use those in my laser as well.
1:01:24
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:01:25
Okay.
1:01:26
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:01:26
So the interesting, and, and as you
1:01:27
Rupert Isaacson: know, Nicola Tesla, by the way, was also the one who
1:01:30
famously said, if you want to know how the universe works, think in terms
1:01:33
of, you know, frequency and vibration, energy, frequency and vibration.
1:01:37
So, but I, I'm just interested that, that's why I asked if
1:01:42
you knew what some of them are.
1:01:43
And it, it does seem in fact that, yeah.
1:01:48
Okay, so, so.
1:01:50
I'm trying to marshal my scattered thoughts here.
1:01:53
A conia is, is the product line.
1:01:56
Who turned you on to those?
1:01:58
Why?
1:02:00
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:02:00
So this was part of the rabbit hole.
1:02:02
So I learned veterinary, veterinary, orthopedic manipulation.
1:02:05
And he mentioned in, in one of the classes, this laser, which I had used
1:02:11
back in 82, 83, we had lasered horses.
1:02:15
We were doing racetrack work and horses.
1:02:18
That boat attendant, if we lasered them, they could race the same season.
1:02:24
Okay.
1:02:25
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:02:25
And so I, that's impressive.
1:02:27
And you know, I moved on and busyness of life, I forgot about lasers and
1:02:31
tell my own horse, this is where our hardest lessons come from.
1:02:36
He was injured.
1:02:38
It wasn't a bad injury, but it would not heal.
1:02:41
And I took him to the university and mostly 'cause there comes a
1:02:48
point where you need, you need somebody else to be your vet.
1:02:53
So I took him there and they could find, you know, everything else checked out.
1:02:58
So I asked him to lay him down and debride his leg to clean it up for me
1:03:04
because he was, he came to me traumatized.
1:03:08
We hadn't really got through things when he had this injury.
1:03:11
So I wanted it done by somebody else.
1:03:14
And four days later, it was worse than when I took him.
1:03:20
So I brought him, he was home.
1:03:22
I doctored him myself and then it went south.
1:03:26
He was boarded and it, they called me and he was now three-legged.
1:03:33
He had this huge open wound on his right o blow and over his hawk.
1:03:40
And and so I took him to my clinic then and put him in a
1:03:43
stall and he was losing weight.
1:03:45
He was three-legged, not weightbearing.
1:03:48
So I took him to what I consider the best private clinic in Colorado.
1:03:54
They laid him down again, debrided it, put him in a cast to a stifle for a month.
1:04:00
I left him there because I live over two mountain passes and it was January and
1:04:07
when they took it off, they graciously offered skin grafts 'cause that's how
1:04:13
much it wasn't healed, which we did.
1:04:16
'Cause at this point it was, you know, just what's more money.
1:04:19
And a long story short, I did everything the best vets in the state could do for
1:04:26
seven months and could not heal his leg.
1:04:29
And I had a three to four inch diameter chronic wound, lots of scar tissue.
1:04:36
When I finally listened to my gut, which kept telling me that
1:04:40
a laser would help him, and took.
1:04:44
Took the first class with her coia on the laser for animals and bought it.
1:04:51
And I kid you not in two weeks his leg was healed and normal.
1:04:56
I mean, there was insignificant scab.
1:05:00
The scar tissue went away.
1:05:02
He was sound.
1:05:04
Rupert Isaacson: Do you recommend that barn owners should buy some stuff from the
1:05:10
ACON range and have it just in their barn?
1:05:13
I, I, I,
1:05:14
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:05:14
they have to, I mean,
1:05:18
I use mine for all my animals and the, you know, the price tag is a
1:05:24
little steep, but so is healthcare and so is veterinary care, no
1:05:28
Rupert Isaacson: doubt.
1:05:28
Is there a model that you recommend?
1:05:30
Is this like the sort of standard that everyone should kind of probably have?
1:05:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:05:33
Yeah, they're their introductory level.
1:05:36
It, the, the least expensive.
1:05:38
It's about 10 grand.
1:05:40
Mm-hmm.
1:05:40
And it's just the red, and that's what I had to begin with.
1:05:44
That's what healed my horse.
1:05:46
It, it's a, it's a, it's a very good laser.
1:05:50
They then have one that is red and violet and the violet
1:05:55
is antibacterial, antifungal.
1:05:58
The red is somewhat so, but the violet a lot more.
1:06:03
And it can do other things with the nerves and.
1:06:07
You can use it as a preventative, like shine it in your
1:06:11
sinuses and throat and stuff.
1:06:14
Thymus to try not to catch the leading virus that's going around.
1:06:19
Then they came out recently with a violet and green.
1:06:23
So you get the antibacterial, the green is, seems to work better
1:06:28
with nerves and chronic pain.
1:06:32
So when I do it, I, I use them in combination so I can stimulate the
1:06:39
brainstem, the spinal cord, and the area of interest and your vision.
1:06:44
So I've kind of evolved these things at those
1:06:46
Rupert Isaacson: areas.
1:06:47
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:06:47
Yeah, they're, yeah, it's, and it's, it's lines of light.
1:06:50
Mm-hmm.
1:06:51
Which
1:06:51
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:06:51
my horse had explained to one of the many therapists I incorporated
1:06:57
to help find out how to heal him.
1:07:00
And and that's unique and patented with zirconia so I don't have to be right
1:07:06
on the horse because it is a true laser and I can cover a pretty big area.
1:07:14
When I first got it and when I had my clinic, kind of, my, I hate to say
1:07:19
it, my bread and butter was paralyzed dogs and between the acupuncture and
1:07:23
the laser and sometimes the dog would be so painful, all I could do is
1:07:27
laser him 'cause I couldn't touch him.
1:07:30
And they would walk within two or three days.
1:07:33
So it's okay.
1:07:35
It's really good for nerve problems I've found.
1:07:38
But I think that being able to reconnect the brain to the rest of the
1:07:44
body helps the body integrate that.
1:07:49
Rupert Isaacson: Do you recommend just lasering your horses on a week to week
1:07:55
basis, just to kind of as a, as you say, as a preventative, or do you do it in the,
1:08:01
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:01
in the human world, they're using it for performance enhancement,
1:08:06
so definitely, and I'm, I'm hope to get a study going soon using it
1:08:13
for metabolic disease in horses.
1:08:14
Okay.
1:08:14
So
1:08:15
Rupert Isaacson: as a horse owner yourself, how often do you, you
1:08:17
know, with no crisis going on, how often do you lazy your horses?
1:08:22
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:22
I try to do body work on them if I haven't, if I'm gonna go ride.
1:08:27
Mm-hmm.
1:08:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:28
I don't ride as often as I should, but you know, in my ideal world,
1:08:33
I would do it at least every week.
1:08:36
And I have this How long would you do it for?
1:08:38
What's that?
1:08:39
Rupert Isaacson: How long would you do it for?
1:08:40
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:40
It takes about 10, 15 minutes.
1:08:42
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:08:44
Okay.
1:08:44
Not so, it's
1:08:44
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:44
not, it's not a big thing, but like, certainly.
1:08:49
As I was telling somebody the other day, when you have an injury,
1:08:52
you need the laser and you know, need to know how to use it now.
1:08:56
Okay.
1:08:57
So, so
1:08:57
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:08:57
it's not something you're gonna buy unless you're like me and
1:09:02
you struggle for seven months.
1:09:04
Right.
1:09:04
When
1:09:04
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:04
I could have paid for the laser upfront with not having that, all those vet bill.
1:09:12
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure.
1:09:13
Okay, so tell me, and I, I've done
1:09:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:16
in course, in course of uveitis
1:09:19
mm-hmm.
1:09:20
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:20
The laser's safe enough to do eye problems.
1:09:23
Okay.
1:09:24
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:24
Okay.
1:09:25
Wound management, you know, tendons back.
1:09:30
I What about, about skin
1:09:31
Rupert Isaacson: stuff, skin problems, what is the itch?
1:09:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:33
Yeah.
1:09:33
And the violet is really good for that.
1:09:39
Rupert Isaacson: Just writing that down.
1:09:40
I've got a couple of horses that itch.
1:09:42
Yeah.
1:09:42
And you would do that just all over the epidermis area?
1:09:45
You just like, or you just go to the areas that they tend to itch.
1:09:49
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:49
So some of the studies show that in the blood are free floating mitochondria.
1:09:54
Mm-hmm.
1:09:55
And
1:09:55
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:09:55
the,
1:09:58
the lights, the three different colors stimulate the cytochrome
1:10:03
oxidase steps in the mitochondria to produce a TP or energy.
1:10:08
Mm-hmm.
1:10:09
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:10:09
And they, they affect different steps.
1:10:13
And by doing that then they.
1:10:16
The mitochondria can do, provide the cell with more energy to do whatever the cell
1:10:24
needs to do, heal, function, whatever.
1:10:28
So there are free floating mitochondria in the blood.
1:10:32
So if you laser the blood, the cells will pick up those mitochondria that need them.
1:10:39
And so you can laser the right hind leg for an injury on the
1:10:47
left front and make a difference.
1:10:49
Say, granted, you're gonna have a better, I wanna say
1:10:52
Rupert Isaacson: itching its tail or itching its main or itching its face.
1:10:56
Are you, are you zapping that, that area or are you zapping any area for
1:11:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:11:02
that reason?
1:11:02
Well, I'll, I'll zap the most important areas.
1:11:06
Okay.
1:11:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:11:06
Realizing I'm gonna help the minor areas as well, but I don't have to feel
1:11:12
like I have to laser the entire horse.
1:11:15
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:11:15
That's also, I think
1:11:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:11:16
that it works by, the frequencies are like a light vibration.
1:11:22
Mm-hmm.
1:11:22
And that gets into the water or the horse's 80% water.
1:11:28
Mm.
1:11:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:11:28
And it's transmitted like a sonar in a submarine in the ocean.
1:11:33
Okay.
1:11:35
And so there's, there's different ways that it can affect the cells
1:11:41
and do that kind of healing.
1:11:43
You can also also use laser, do lasers on
1:11:44
yourself.
1:11:46
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:11:46
Yes.
1:11:46
And I do, there's one technique you know, lasering your brain.
1:11:50
I've had five traumatic brain injuries.
1:11:53
I've invested a lot of money into my brain.
1:11:55
So I, two or three days a week I try to do every day.
1:11:59
But that doesn't happen.
1:12:01
I laser my brain.
1:12:02
Okay.
1:12:03
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:12:03
And whatever things might have other things that need to go with it.
1:12:10
You can laser thyroid, you can laser heart.
1:12:13
Rupert Isaacson: So you use the same devices on yourself
1:12:15
that you use on the horse.
1:12:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:12:16
I do.
1:12:17
And in two years everyone in my family had an orthopedic surgery
1:12:23
and it got used on everybody.
1:12:25
My leg.
1:12:26
I fractured my tibia and I lasered a week before surgery.
1:12:34
And the surgeon went, the surgery went so well.
1:12:36
Instead of being in a cast, I could be in a boot and start using it right away.
1:12:41
And I kept lasering.
1:12:44
And laser can cut healing time in half.
1:12:49
So using the Linda Tillington Jones principle, I told myself every time
1:12:54
they told me six to eight weeks, I went, oh, you mean three weeks?
1:12:58
And at three weeks I got them to X-ray and they could not see
1:13:02
where I'd ever broke my leg.
1:13:04
Rupert Isaacson: That's so interesting.
1:13:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:13:06
And so, you know, in a dog or a horse, if you can cut their healing time in half
1:13:11
mm-hmm.
1:13:12
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:13:12
Before they can do more damage by being locked up or mm-hmm.
1:13:17
You can get 'em back into work sooner.
1:13:19
They haven't lost so much.
1:13:21
Mm-hmm.
1:13:21
Mm-hmm.
1:13:21
There's
1:13:21
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:13:21
just so many other things with that.
1:13:25
And I, I've even, you know, used it for cellular memory of trauma.
1:13:31
I've been able to help horses that have trauma release that, and,
1:13:40
and I've had the misfortune of trying it out on myself for that when I had
1:13:47
one of my dogs killed by a horse and being the vet, I was the one trying
1:13:52
to save his life as I was freaking out that I couldn't save his life.
1:13:57
Mm-hmm.
1:13:57
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:13:57
And and I was having a tough time there again in the dojo with Mark
1:14:03
and Chrissy Rashed, and something triggered me and I left, and Chrissy
1:14:09
said, have you done that on yourself?
1:14:11
And I, you know, had never thought of it.
1:14:13
And I did.
1:14:14
And it was so interesting that what I was experienced was trauma, not just grief.
1:14:23
And by taking out the trauma, then I could handle the grief.
1:14:28
Hmm.
1:14:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:14:29
It was, it, it just, I, I never equated those as two different things, but,
1:14:35
so, you know, working in a rescue, I almost always start there with a horse
1:14:41
because I don't have to know what trauma they had to help them get rid of it.
1:14:48
And it's, yeah, it's, I, I can't really explain the mechanics or the science base.
1:14:55
Mm-hmm.
1:14:55
I'm just not.
1:14:56
Rupert Isaacson: But you're still working with the laser horse at this point,
1:14:59
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:14:59
huh?
1:15:00
Rupert Isaacson: You're still working with the laser at this point?
1:15:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:15:02
I, I use it, yeah.
1:15:05
Yeah.
1:15:05
And
1:15:06
Rupert Isaacson: can I ask you about another device you know the
1:15:08
Beemer blankets, B-E-M-E-R Uhhuh
1:15:11
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:15:11
Yeah.
1:15:11
Rupert Isaacson: By the Swiss company.
1:15:13
What's your take on those?
1:15:15
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:15:15
I, I really, I have it.
1:15:17
Linda introduced me to that.
1:15:18
I, I really like it personally for, I use it for my horses because mm-hmm.
1:15:25
The two times when I wouldn't be without it is colic.
1:15:29
Mm-hmm.
1:15:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:15:29
I've, I've seen it.
1:15:31
I've even seen my horse like grab for it off the fence when she was colicking and
1:15:37
then while she had the Beamer on, I did T touch and within 10 minutes she was fine.
1:15:43
Okay.
1:15:44
I also found that when I sedate a horse, if I beamer them, they
1:15:51
go deeper and I need less drugs.
1:15:55
And at which, you know, because it opens up the microcirculation.
1:15:59
The drug gets where it needs to be faster mm-hmm.
1:16:02
And more effectively.
1:16:04
And it puts 'em in a sympathetic state, which adrenaline is
1:16:10
like an antidote for drugs.
1:16:12
Yeah.
1:16:12
So I don't have to keep giving more and the, it's worth it.
1:16:16
But in my world, that's a, that's a homework issue.
1:16:20
I don't have, I often don't beamer the horses I'm working
1:16:25
on because I don't have the time
1:16:28
Yeah.
1:16:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:16:29
To do it.
1:16:30
And I don't need to do it.
1:16:32
The ranch where I work, they have two beamers.
1:16:34
If I'm running late, they'll throw a beamer on the, on my patient,
1:16:38
or if there's volunteers around, they'll throw one on after I'm done.
1:16:42
But
1:16:43
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:16:43
I'm, I have a couple and I'm a, I'm a great believer and Jet Linda
1:16:46
Pennington Jones turned me onto them.
1:16:48
And she said, Rupert, this will take away your jet lag.
1:16:50
See?
1:16:50
Know I'm often on planes and Oh yeah.
1:16:52
Yeah.
1:16:53
And it sort of did and I was like, oh.
1:16:54
And then we noticed the effect on our horses.
1:16:57
When you are back to what you said you, when you're riding, you will
1:17:01
laser your horse before or after?
1:17:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:17:06
Usually I do before.
1:17:08
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:17:10
So I'm also thinking about therapy programs where the horses are
1:17:12
serving client after client.
1:17:15
You know, we have some centers that do what we do in Ireland
1:17:19
particularly, that have really heavy client loads that are funded.
1:17:23
Now at a state level or at least by charities that are
1:17:26
receiving state funding.
1:17:27
So they have to meet certain quotas.
1:17:29
And so we're always looking for ways to make it better and easier for the horses.
1:17:34
We do tons of lunging, we do tons of long reigning, we do tons of
1:17:38
in hand work for brain and body.
1:17:40
Yes.
1:17:41
But your thing about the laser is interesting to me because I could see
1:17:45
that being really useful if a horse is going to do several sessions in a day.
1:17:50
And when they have having the downtime in between luckily they all get
1:17:55
completely turned out on pasture at night no matter what the time of year.
1:18:00
So they're not confined to stall.
1:18:02
They, they go into stores in the day simply because you can't always go
1:18:06
to the field, catch a horse and clean it in the rain and the mud, you know?
1:18:09
But they're getting outta those stores all the time.
1:18:12
So they're really just in there to chill in between, eat hay and them,
1:18:15
boom, they're out in herd otherwise.
1:18:17
But I like the idea that you said of lasering them beforehand.
1:18:23
We would also want to beamer them, but as you say, the beaming sometimes takes
1:18:28
a bit of time, and in the course of a busy day, it's easy for that to get lost.
1:18:33
And we have to give.
1:18:35
The professionals tools they can actually use that aren't gonna just
1:18:38
stress them more because they haven't got time to use them, and now they feel
1:18:41
guilty because, you know what I mean?
1:18:42
It's, it's, that's, that's not, that's not helpful.
1:18:45
So I'm gonna turn them onto the aia range.
1:18:49
I'm really grateful that you've and I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna
1:18:52
give it a try with my horses too.
1:18:53
Horses.
1:18:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:18:54
Sure.
1:18:55
I can give you the contact.
1:18:56
Rupert Isaacson: That would be great.
1:18:58
That would be really great.
1:18:59
And maybe we'll share that with listeners too.
1:19:01
Okay.
1:19:02
Now you talked earlier about the basic requirements of a horse and you brought
1:19:06
it down to grass of salt minerals, but we know it's more than that too.
1:19:10
We know it's how they live.
1:19:12
If you had your perfect world,
1:19:17
how would every horse live?
1:19:19
And given that not everyone has the state of Montana or Colorado as their backyard,
1:19:24
right.
1:19:24
Rupert Isaacson: And then it would be quite useful to look at, okay, well if you
1:19:29
haven't got that, what are the strategies that we can do that would approximate
1:19:33
towards that in less ideal situations?
1:19:38
So what's the, what's the, the ideal?
1:19:42
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:19:42
One thing I, I see a lot of is, I think horses, they're herd animals.
1:19:47
Mm-hmm.
1:19:48
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:19:48
That it's important if they can have contact and be with
1:19:53
another, and that, you know, gets.
1:19:56
Safety, the more expensive they are, can they be there?
1:19:59
But you know, I think for their wellbeing, yeah.
1:20:03
Probably one of the primary things is to be, have companionship
1:20:08
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:20:09
Where they can actually physically touch.
1:20:10
Yeah.
1:20:11
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:11
Yes, yes.
1:20:12
That's, now this can
1:20:12
Rupert Isaacson: be tricky if you've got stallions.
1:20:14
Obviously
1:20:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:16
some people have worked that out even with stallions.
1:20:18
Yeah.
1:20:19
I mean, so, it's changing the paradigm from early on.
1:20:24
I think it's, it's possible.
1:20:26
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:20:27
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:27
You know, and I think,
1:20:28
Rupert Isaacson: but, but most people do not have stallions, so.
1:20:30
Yeah, yeah.
1:20:30
Yeah.
1:20:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:31
And we can't, we don't live in a perfect world.
1:20:34
Mm-hmm.
1:20:34
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:34
But you can, you know, exercise is really important.
1:20:38
Hmm.
1:20:38
That they get the miles one way or the other.
1:20:41
And like you said, I, I worked on a racetrack for a while and was just amazed
1:20:46
at how little exercise those horses got
1:20:49
Hmm.
1:20:50
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:20:50
Compared to me as a youngster riding eight or nine hours a day.
1:20:57
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
1:20:58
Absolutely.
1:20:58
Absolutely.
1:20:59
Yeah.
1:20:59
Growing up hunting, I mean, a hunting day was
1:21:05
we back in those days, this is the eighties, early eighties, you'd
1:21:10
ride to the meet if it was within an hour of your, of where you lived.
1:21:15
if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then
1:21:21
you've probably also always wondered a little bit about the old master system.
1:21:26
of dressage training.
1:21:28
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step
1:21:36
exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse
1:21:43
of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional
1:21:49
well being of the horse and the rider.
1:21:52
Intrigued?
1:21:53
Like to know more?
1:21:55
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.
1:21:59
Check out the free introduction course.
1:22:01
Take it from there.
1:22:03
So you've got that, and you'd ride at a steady walk or trot.
1:22:07
You arrive at the meet.
1:22:09
Stand around for 20 minutes, and then you're hunting for six hours,
1:22:14
which is not all hard action.
1:22:15
You know, there's stand roundy bits as well, but you're basically
1:22:19
on the move fast or slow.
1:22:21
And then you would ride home and sometimes the hunt would end like two or three hours
1:22:29
from home and we'd ride home, you know?
1:22:32
And even in the dark along the roads, because back then in the roads in England,
1:22:36
people kind of expected to meet livestock.
1:22:38
You couldn't do it anymore, you know, that you just get killed.
1:22:41
But back then it was, there were less cars and the rural traffic, you know,
1:22:45
was more horse friendly even at night.
1:22:47
And so you'd put all that together, I mean, at night, meaning it also gets
1:22:51
dark at like four o'clock in December, you know, so it's not exactly late.
1:22:54
And you've got like an eight hour day of movement, just
1:23:00
movement, movement, movement.
1:23:01
Not all hard demanding movement, but just movement.
1:23:04
And of course also exploration and being in a herd with all their
1:23:07
friends, you know, because hunting is usually done with group and so on.
1:23:11
So whatever you think about whether one should go fox hunting or not.
1:23:15
And I actually don't live hunt anymore and go out with the bloodhounds, which
1:23:20
we hunt actually one of our friends.
1:23:22
But we still have a lot of fun doing it.
1:23:24
You know, I've, I've never encountered such happy horses as horses that
1:23:27
regularly go hunting because they.
1:23:29
They, a lot of their needs are met just through the course of that
1:23:32
provided that fit, you know, and well, but as you say, that's just not how
1:23:37
most horses are moved these days.
1:23:38
And a lot of my clients, I have a, you know, another hat that I wear
1:23:41
as a dressage teacher and, you know, the vast majority of my clients, they
1:23:46
have a job, you know, so the horse is boarded and they get to that horse if
1:23:51
they're lucky, you know, an hour a day.
1:23:53
They might have other people that share that horse or sublease that
1:23:56
horse and can move it more in the day.
1:23:58
But basically that horse is standing around most of the time.
1:24:01
And a lot of the issues that I see in people as well as horses, I
1:24:07
think come down to chronic boredom.
1:24:10
And it's almost like we've become so inured to boredom and sedentary lives,
1:24:15
and now we lead sedentary lives.
1:24:17
So we go out to our horse as a sedentary person.
1:24:19
We now can't necessarily accept a whole big bunch of energy, like a big puppy
1:24:24
jumping up and down that's pleased to see us, but yet that horse has been standing
1:24:28
there, and now we are suddenly the party, you know, and the chance to move.
1:24:33
We, that's what we represent.
1:24:35
And then boom, that doesn't go so well because the monkey's not ready for it.
1:24:38
And the monkey's also too sedentary and perhaps not fit enough,
1:24:42
and it's a downward spiral.
1:24:44
So I like that you brought up movement.
1:24:48
What are some strategies that people could look at to make sure
1:24:54
their horses get enough movement?
1:24:56
For their bodies and for their brains.
1:24:59
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:24:59
Well, yeah.
1:25:00
You said brains.
1:25:00
So brains use a lot of glucose so you can get exhausted by using your brain.
1:25:07
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure.
1:25:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:25:08
And so, you know, adding enrichment, I really like the surefoot pads
1:25:15
because they, what are those?
1:25:16
Our novel Wendy Murdoch came up with the Surefoot pads.
1:25:22
They affect the proprioception.
1:25:24
They just work on so many levels, and I often use them before treatment, but I
1:25:32
will also know that I need to work with my horse, but I don't have the energy.
1:25:36
So I'll go out with the surefoot pads and I always see it as a game that
1:25:42
the horse gets to make the rules.
1:25:43
So I don't go there with a structure.
1:25:46
And
1:25:47
Rupert Isaacson: the horse stands on them, right?
1:25:48
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:25:48
They stand on 'em.
1:25:50
And you can, that's not a
1:25:50
Rupert Isaacson: lot of movement, right?
1:25:51
I mean that's, or they, they do a lot of movement concentrating,
1:25:54
so that's using up energy,
1:25:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:25:56
but they're using their fine motor muscles.
1:26:00
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
1:26:00
So they're
1:26:01
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:01
can, they can get sore if you let 'em stay on 'em too long.
1:26:05
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:26:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:06
And so it's, it's,
1:26:08
Rupert Isaacson: I'm looking them up here.
1:26:09
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:09
It's fine motor movement.
1:26:11
It, it, it's proprioception.
1:26:15
You can mix, you can stack 'em, you can put 'em on different legs.
1:26:19
You can do one leg at a time.
1:26:22
And you just walk 'em between times.
1:26:24
They get, if they wanna step off, if you let 'em step off and go for a walk, okay.
1:26:29
And then you do it or you can do you know, t touch the labyrinth or
1:26:33
mm-hmm.
1:26:34
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:34
You know, ground walking, all those things enhance riding.
1:26:39
And gives the horse a novel, a new way of
1:26:44
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
1:26:45
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:45
Being so Right and
1:26:46
Rupert Isaacson: novel, novel movement, as we know, promotes a
1:26:49
protein in the brain for listeners.
1:26:51
Yeah.
1:26:52
BDNF and, and derive neurotrophic factor, which is neuroplasticity.
1:26:56
Yeah.
1:26:57
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:26:57
So you can, you know, you can set up those things to work with your
1:27:00
horse to keep 'em engaged and, and help 'em focus, which will bring down
1:27:07
that energy that they don't always have to just expend as a blast of,
1:27:15
Rupert Isaacson: but sometimes horses do need a blast.
1:27:17
I mean, they're like kids.
1:27:18
They do.
1:27:18
They do.
1:27:18
And
1:27:19
Rupert Isaacson: this is one of my issues with the way things have gone in the last
1:27:23
10 years, particularly in certain aspects of the equine assisted world where there's
1:27:29
a real emphasis on everything being quiet down, regulated, and not fireworks.
1:27:38
But I do know horses and I know that they like fireworks.
1:27:42
I turned my, you know, horses out this morning 'cause they live in an
1:27:45
open area, but after I fed them in the morning, I let turn them out to pasture.
1:27:51
They're not installed, but they're open area with free hay and all that,
1:27:55
but they still want to go to pasture.
1:27:56
And when they go to pass, they play and they're quite explosive in their play.
1:28:02
Just like kids.
1:28:03
And one of the strategies we came up with when we, for a while had to
1:28:08
board horses here in Germany, but they weren't getting out that much.
1:28:11
We were like, oh shit, what are we gonna do?
1:28:13
'cause they, these guys need a lot.
1:28:15
We came up with the idea of crazy time.
1:28:17
And it was something we did with kids anyway, always in the work that we do,
1:28:21
not with horses, that before we work, say with autistic children or kids
1:28:27
with a DD or whatever, we are never gonna say, concentrate on this thing.
1:28:30
You know, when the kid just walks, it's like, no, come on.
1:28:32
That's not what a kid wants to do.
1:28:33
They, they, they wanna play.
1:28:35
They wanna see the all the play equipment.
1:28:36
They wanna go nuts for a bit or not, or just engage with it in
1:28:40
the way that they wanna engage.
1:28:41
But there's always a certain population that want to go nuts with it.
1:28:44
And then when they've done that for a while, the endorphins
1:28:47
kick in and they're like, then they're like, okay, I'm available.
1:28:50
You know, what should we do?
1:28:52
And I'm always astonished that this is not how people approach horses, you know?
1:28:57
That if the horse wants to buck and play and ride, like, no, no, calm down.
1:29:00
Calm down.
1:29:01
Like.
1:29:01
Why, if that's not, if the, if where the horse is at, well, we
1:29:05
know why, because it causes us fear.
1:29:08
We obviously don't wanna get bucked off.
1:29:09
We don't wanna get hurt.
1:29:10
So what we did was, for us and for our clients, there was a big
1:29:17
indoor arena because it's Germany.
1:29:20
So we said, okay, that's what we've got.
1:29:21
And it's also icy outside and it's dark, so let's use that and have crazy times.
1:29:25
So we began to build obstacle courses that were, you know, like you said,
1:29:29
the Tonys and Jones labyrinths.
1:29:31
But where you could go, the horses could run around, and the horses
1:29:34
that like to jump, we'd build jumps.
1:29:36
And what we do is we'd change it every two minutes.
1:29:40
So we'd get them in there, usually in a group, at least
1:29:44
in a pair, occasionally solo.
1:29:46
But as you say, they, they really appreciate it if they
1:29:49
can do it with their mates.
1:29:50
And then they'd sort of, it got to the point where they'd go in
1:29:54
there, see what we built, and they, they would need no encouragement.
1:29:58
They'd just could start running at it and jumping it and making up their own fun.
1:30:02
And it got really interesting to see you could build them
1:30:05
jumps where there'd be choices.
1:30:07
You could jump here, you could jump here, you could not jump there and just
1:30:10
go over a pole, but there's a yoga ball in the way or whatever, or whatever.
1:30:13
And it was interesting how often they would choose to challenge themselves.
1:30:16
They'd go for that biggest bit and we weren't even asking them to
1:30:19
do it, you know, they were just.
1:30:22
Joyfully Ecstatically Express.
1:30:25
And we weren't even particularly saying to them, you need to jump now.
1:30:28
We are saying, here's the thing, we'll encourage you a little
1:30:30
bit, we'll interact with you.
1:30:32
See what you wanna do.
1:30:34
And what we found was that we'd, we'd sort of hit a magic key where then the horse
1:30:41
would turn and look at you after a while.
1:30:45
There would always be these little pauses in, in between.
1:30:47
But let's say you did 20 minutes of that, and the horse would
1:30:49
kind of go to go, okay, I'm good.
1:30:50
And they'd sort of just come, or they'd go to a corner and stand and kind of
1:30:54
look at you and say, okay, what now?
1:30:57
And you'd say, okay, you ready?
1:30:58
And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
1:30:59
And then you could ask them to then engage with that 65-year-old
1:31:06
person who's just come from her job as a, a lawyer or accountant.
1:31:09
You know, she'd be sat there all day.
1:31:11
There's no way in hell she could sit on a horse that is full of that kind
1:31:14
of bouncy fun, but it wouldn't matter because the horse had had a chance
1:31:19
to express that with their friends.
1:31:21
And now they're like, okay, I'm, I'm here.
1:31:23
So.
1:31:24
Do you have Strat?
1:31:25
Similar strategies like that.
1:31:27
And obviously we made sure the horses were fit, that their tendons were good.
1:31:30
We wouldn't do that with horses that were not like that.
1:31:33
But I don't hear people talking about this kind of thing so much.
1:31:36
I, I hear much more people talking about, no, no, let's calm it all down.
1:31:40
Let's calm it all down.
1:31:41
But what if that's not where the horses at?
1:31:43
You know?
1:31:44
And horses get so bored, you know?
1:31:46
And they love to go nuts.
1:31:48
They're playful animals.
1:31:49
So can do what, how do, how does that affect your, your practice and your work?
1:31:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:31:56
I'm not a trainer, so Yeah.
1:31:58
But I love that idea.
1:31:59
And in, in a way, that's what I do with my horses.
1:32:02
Yeah.
1:32:02
They
1:32:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:32:02
get turnout time most mornings, and they run and, and act crazy.
1:32:10
And sometimes when I go to get 'em in, they, they're not ready.
1:32:13
Yeah.
1:32:14
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:32:14
And so then I just marvel it.
1:32:17
And I think sometimes they just like to show off for me.
1:32:19
Mm-hmm.
1:32:20
And I go,
1:32:21
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:32:21
wow.
1:32:21
Yeah.
1:32:21
Look at what you can do.
1:32:22
You know?
1:32:23
And, and appreciate their energy.
1:32:26
And I think we don't give horses voice.
1:32:29
That's, that's a good
1:32:29
Rupert Isaacson: word.
1:32:29
Appreciate.
1:32:30
Sorry.
1:32:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:32:31
We don't, we don't, we just don't recognize their, giving them options.
1:32:37
And that's what struck me.
1:32:39
You're giving them options.
1:32:41
Mm-hmm.
1:32:41
You're, you're saying, Hey, what would you like to do?
1:32:44
How would you like to do?
1:32:45
And, and I think that can take a lot of different ways.
1:32:50
Mm.
1:32:51
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:32:51
But and, and I, I also have a, a habit, I think it would Carolyn Renick is
1:32:59
a a trainer and I, I learned that a big thing is to sit with my horses.
1:33:07
Mm-hmm.
1:33:08
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:33:08
I have a mounting block in their corral, and I often just sit with
1:33:12
them and become part of the herd.
1:33:14
Hmm.
1:33:15
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:33:15
And I think that connection with other horses, but if they can't with
1:33:20
someone, is important to recognize.
1:33:24
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
1:33:24
I mean, horses are domestic animals, and it's interesting, you know, people
1:33:28
talk about the wild horse, but none of the horses that we ride are wild
1:33:34
in any, have, have been wild for thousands and thousands of years.
1:33:37
They're being selectively bred to seek out human interaction, what
1:33:41
people would call trainability.
1:33:43
You didn't breed from the horses that didn't like that, because why would
1:33:46
you if you were on the steps that's, you know, entirely impractical.
1:33:50
So back to those ach, to people, you know, thousands of years ago,
1:33:54
beginning to breed the, the horses that we now use today I think it's
1:33:58
often forgotten that horses actually want interaction with the monkey now.
1:34:01
But they, as you say, they do want options.
1:34:04
And in the.
1:34:06
Tribal sense you would live with your horses.
1:34:08
Right?
1:34:08
You, you live in a yacht.
1:34:10
Yeah.
1:34:10
Horses are around you.
1:34:11
You're never not with them.
1:34:13
Okay.
1:34:13
I don't wanna make people feel bad if they have to board a horse, but I like
1:34:17
your idea of, again, how do you recreate that to some degree with something
1:34:22
as simple as, as you say, taking a mounting block and just sitting with them
1:34:27
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:34:27
and, and you know, to, to spare people from too much guilt.
1:34:31
Mm-hmm.
1:34:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:34:31
I had a gilding the one that was injured.
1:34:34
We had a connection and I often beat myself up that I couldn't provide him,
1:34:40
you know, with acres to run and things.
1:34:43
Mm-hmm.
1:34:44
And when I would try to board him somewhere where he could, he was
1:34:49
more comfortable being where I was.
1:34:52
Right.
1:34:52
In a less than ideal situation.
1:34:55
Yes.
1:34:55
Than he was out on 40 acres.
1:34:57
Rupert Isaacson: This is so interesting that you bring that up.
1:34:59
Okay.
1:35:00
Please.
1:35:00
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.
1:35:01
Go on.
1:35:03
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:35:03
But that, that was something, it was hard for me to accept.
1:35:07
And, and so that's you know, he, he taught me a lot of things because
1:35:12
of our connection and because Wow.
1:35:15
He was here in my backyard.
1:35:17
And, and sitting with him was, was just life-changing experiences.
1:35:24
Having that connection.
1:35:26
I used to take him because at one point I couldn't ride him anymore, so I
1:35:30
would take him hiking in the mountains and people would give me a bad time.
1:35:36
'cause I had a young dog on a leash and my horses at Liberty in the mountains.
1:35:41
Ah.
1:35:42
And you know, walking a dog is pretty cool, but having a horse in the mountains
1:35:48
where they could go anywhere Yeah.
1:35:50
But they prefer to walk down the trail with you is, is an amazing experience.
1:35:56
Rupert Isaacson: No doubt.
1:36:01
Yeah.
1:36:02
And if you think about, you know, the Arab perms about having the
1:36:04
horse in your tent with you.
1:36:06
Yeah.
1:36:07
You know, I've, I was been, I've been in Mongolia, I've seen horse
1:36:10
culture like that at firsthand.
1:36:12
That yeah, we are supposed to, if we are horse people, we're supposed to
1:36:15
live tribally not keep them necessarily like you would in a cavalry barracks,
1:36:22
which is where we inherit the current stabling systems that we have.
1:36:27
That said, of course, those cavalry horses, what's forgotten is that they
1:36:32
would go and campaign and not just when there was a war on, but they would
1:36:36
go on constant maneuvers, you know, of military exercises all the time.
1:36:41
And of course then they were picketed, they were standing in
1:36:44
picket lines out there grazed, you know, with all their friends.
1:36:48
So they actually weren't spending as much time in a stable stall as
1:36:53
we think they were, those days of the old cavalry schools, actually.
1:36:56
And if you think about to the old, old days of urban horses, if they were
1:37:01
out there pulling a cart at a steady pace around the city for the day,
1:37:08
then they're gonna be pretty happy to stand even in a small place and chill.
1:37:12
And just kind of in the same way that I don't care the size of my
1:37:14
bedroom, you know, when I'm tired, I just want to kind of chill.
1:37:18
I only care about the size of my bedroom if I don't get outta my bedroom very much.
1:37:21
So I agree with you.
1:37:22
I think a lot of this has been forgotten.
1:37:24
And in the course of my work, you know, I, I see a lot of horses kept different
1:37:27
ways and I used to have more hard and fast opinions about it, but I've realized
1:37:32
that those opinions mean nothing.
1:37:34
'cause I've met, as you said, horses that are really happy, living in less
1:37:40
ideal situations, and horses that are chronically bored and often a bit
1:37:44
sour, living in more ideal situations.
1:37:47
And what it seems to come down to is the, is the quality of the
1:37:50
human interaction that they have and the quality of the interaction
1:37:54
with each other that they have.
1:37:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:37:56
The last two winters we bought a place close to my grandkids.
1:38:02
So we have 25 acres in a barn and we live in the barn.
1:38:05
Mm-hmm.
1:38:06
And
1:38:06
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:38:06
it has been such an experience where the horses.
1:38:11
Can come into the barn if they want to, or they can out and to live that closely.
1:38:18
I have pictures.
1:38:19
In fact, my mule did open up the apartment door and go in at one point.
1:38:24
Yeah.
1:38:25
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:38:25
And, and I course should, the storms are so horrific that they
1:38:29
have to come into stalls at night.
1:38:31
Yeah.
1:38:32
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:38:32
And so they're literally out my front door across the aisle
1:38:36
and living there with them.
1:38:39
It, it's, I I go out to the arena then come into the
1:38:44
arena from the pasture nothmm
1:38:46
and
1:38:46
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:38:46
do my meditation or some distance work or something, and the horses join in
1:38:53
with me and, and we, we do that together.
1:38:58
Or they just come in and have coffee with my husband at
1:39:02
the picnic table in the barn.
1:39:03
Or it's, I it's such a cool experience to just be in, living
1:39:09
in the same building with them.
1:39:10
Rupert Isaacson: I so agree.
1:39:11
I so agree.
1:39:12
You know, often when we're with the kids, you know, we're sitting at a
1:39:16
picnic table and the horses just come and join us, you know, and yeah, they
1:39:21
also wanna see what we're eating.
1:39:22
But it's not just about that.
1:39:23
They, they wanna hang.
1:39:24
And then practically, there can be times when this is really good.
1:39:30
Like a couple of times they've broken out, you know, at night
1:39:32
and, it's no hassle to go get 'em.
1:39:35
You know, they, they wanna just go graze over there a little bit.
1:39:38
No problem.
1:39:39
You say, are you good?
1:39:40
If you, if you had your film, they're like, yeah, okay, fine.
1:39:43
Let's, let's go back in.
1:39:44
Whereas in previous years, you know, if my horses got out, that
1:39:47
might involve a bit of a drama.
1:39:50
And
1:39:53
it's taken until quite recently for me to understand what it is to give
1:39:58
the horse a chance to say no and how good that is for mental health.
1:40:02
But how to actually balance that because we tend to, you know how it is, we tend
1:40:06
to view things a little bit in extremes of, well, if you let the horse say no,
1:40:09
then they're gonna say no to everything.
1:40:12
And I've realized that rather, like with crazy times, it's not true.
1:40:16
So for example, in the work we do with autism, once, if I've got your
1:40:19
autistic kid or your autistic grand kid up there with me in the saddle,
1:40:24
I can't afford to have the horse say no in any way at that time.
1:40:27
Mm-hmm.
1:40:28
So what I realized was I needed to give them times to say no.
1:40:31
In other times, 'cause as you know, horses have that innate sense of fairness.
1:40:36
And so if I go out to catch a horse and it's just me, there's no other, and
1:40:42
the horse just kind of turns his butt walks away, I'm like, okay, I hear you.
1:40:48
If I then go out the next day and it's not for me, it's for one of
1:40:54
the kids or something like that, and I say, Hey, today I need you.
1:40:59
Then it's really interesting.
1:41:00
They're like, okay, fine.
1:41:01
Between like the crazy time and that, and then I can say
1:41:04
to them like, dude, come on.
1:41:05
You know, I, I'm looking after this.
1:41:09
You have agency and if you really said no in this situation, okay, fine, I'll
1:41:13
respect that too, but please be a mench.
1:41:16
You know, please help me out here.
1:41:18
And it's so interesting how they rise to that occasion, but I was
1:41:21
never brought up with that, you know, as I'm sure you weren't.
1:41:25
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:41:25
Yeah, no, and that's, it's, it's, they are so intelligent that just letting them
1:41:33
know why you're there and what you need.
1:41:35
And there's been times when you know, I really need you to do this.
1:41:39
I know you don't want to, but we really need to do this today.
1:41:43
Can make all the difference in the world at how they work.
1:41:48
Rupert Isaacson: It's, I, it's so interesting.
1:41:50
What's it, Linda says I asked her, what's, if you were to say to somebody,
1:41:54
what is the most important thing
1:41:59
int touch or in anything, just what's the most important thing?
1:42:01
She said, gratitude.
1:42:03
Just say Thank you to your horse and see what difference that makes.
1:42:08
She said, and she just threw that out as a challenge on the podcast.
1:42:10
She said, everyone just try it.
1:42:12
Whether you believe in it or not, won't matter.
1:42:14
The horse will appreciate it.
1:42:16
Just like people appreciate it and it, and it can be silent.
1:42:18
Just say it to your horse silently, but why not say it out loud?
1:42:23
You know, we
1:42:23
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:42:23
all like to be appreciated.
1:42:25
Rupert Isaacson: We certainly do.
1:42:26
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:42:26
And they're, they're certainly no different.
1:42:29
I think, you know, the horses have signed up in the long term with us.
1:42:34
Mm.
1:42:34
And I think that if we give them the voice, I think they have a lot of wisdom
1:42:41
to help us know where we're going forward.
1:42:46
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly, exactly.
1:42:47
Well, they've been carrying us for millennia, haven't they?
1:42:51
Yeah.
1:42:51
And if you think about what we've asked them to do, we've, we've created,
1:42:55
we've committed a lot of atrocities on horseback, you know, for sure.
1:42:59
Conquest.
1:43:01
And,
1:43:02
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:43:02
and yet they desert us.
1:43:04
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:43:05
They, they've kind of hung with us.
1:43:08
And it's so interesting too.
1:43:09
Like we could be the conquistadors going to the Americas and the horse
1:43:14
becomes an instrument of conquest, and then those same Native Americans
1:43:18
take the horse and say, okay, fine.
1:43:21
You know, and the horse goes, yeah, yeah, I'm here available.
1:43:24
And, but what we found with the work we do with autism is that the horse would
1:43:31
actually much rather show up for healing.
1:43:33
But they're so generous that if you ask them not to, they'll
1:43:37
kind of do their best for you.
1:43:40
But I don't think that does them any good.
1:43:43
You as, as, as, as a veterinary practitioner when you're getting
1:43:46
horses that have come in with stories.
1:43:49
Okay, now they have, they've taken hits to the body and that they've
1:43:53
got ulcers and so on and so on.
1:43:57
Maybe this is where we should go as we sort of go towards the conclusion.
1:44:00
And by the way, I would like this to be just the first of a couple of
1:44:03
conversations that we have because there's other things I'd like to get into with you
1:44:07
that I'm sure listeners would much more on, on the physical health side as well.
1:44:12
Let's say somebody's running a barn where they are routinely bringing, bringing in
1:44:18
donated horses is sort of where we began.
1:44:20
And you said, I look at the posture.
1:44:22
I'm gonna look for the ulcers and see what I need to do there.
1:44:26
Okay,
1:44:29
I'm gonna maybe invest in these acon a lasers.
1:44:33
Now let's just move to the spine and let's move to the legs.
1:44:36
Let's say there's kissing spine.
1:44:39
Let's say there's tendon damage, splints, hawk, arthritis, stifle issues.
1:44:49
It's the standard stuff.
1:44:51
Can you kind of go through the horse and say, okay, barn owner, kind of here's my
1:44:56
recommendation about how to approach this.
1:45:05
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:45:05
I, you know, that's where I think Tea Touch is good to learn.
1:45:09
Mm-hmm.
1:45:09
But it's, you know, it's so important that they have a good farrier
1:45:15
and the feet are trimmed right.
1:45:17
And the teeth are good.
1:45:20
All that affects the horse's balance and symmetry.
1:45:25
And, and if they don't have those two key things, we can't do a lot.
1:45:33
We can only go so far.
1:45:35
Mm-hmm.
1:45:35
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:45:35
And it's interesting 'cause in my early training I was taught
1:45:40
to start at the feet and work up.
1:45:43
I now start at the spine and work down.
1:45:46
Because you've got to, the, the leg problems come from not using their body
1:45:52
appropriately and being out of balance.
1:45:55
And I find often those issues, if not too severe, can go away by getting
1:46:02
them to use their body appropriately.
1:46:05
And so that's kind of where I, I start is, is, you know, working on the fascia
1:46:12
and I, when I started kind of going down this big rabbit hole, have been amazed at
1:46:20
what we called confirmation is posture.
1:46:26
I worked with Dr.
1:46:27
Rachel Bini Hart.
1:46:29
We would sometimes meet up at the ranch, and our work was very synergistic.
1:46:36
She's a chiropractor, okay.
1:46:38
And and one day I, I mean, I saw an andalusian that had huge shoulders,
1:46:45
super high head and no hip.
1:46:47
And when we finished, she looked like a quarter horse.
1:46:50
Mm-hmm.
1:46:52
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:46:52
I mean, I, I didn't, I thought that was her confirmation.
1:46:55
And I told Rachel, I said, I don't see these kind of changes
1:47:00
when I'm working by myself.
1:47:02
I, I truly respect you.
1:47:04
And she said, oh, me neither.
1:47:07
Okay.
1:47:07
So combining our modalities, and I like that both of what we do didn't
1:47:13
overcook the horse by combining them,
1:47:16
but
1:47:16
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:47:16
the horse was able to to be in its body in a better way.
1:47:23
And that, I think is the foundation of, I mean, if they're feeling better, the
1:47:28
ulcers will get better, the movement will get better, the legs will get better.
1:47:32
And that's where you have to train your eye.
1:47:36
And, and so I, I took this posture rehab 'cause I'm like, well,
1:47:40
that was posture we're doing.
1:47:42
And I, and I realized then with this deep dive, you know, how important.
1:47:49
It all is.
1:47:51
And that's the holistic approach to me is how are they housed?
1:47:58
Do they get to move?
1:47:59
Are their feet right?
1:48:00
Are their teeth right?
1:48:02
Are they moving in a relaxed manner with their head down, like
1:48:07
in, in t touch encourages that.
1:48:10
The surefoot pads encourage that.
1:48:13
Mm-hmm.
1:48:13
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:48:13
Movement encourages it.
1:48:15
Husbandry is your barn, is your stall flat?
1:48:19
Is it been used for 20 years?
1:48:21
And there's holes so the horse cannot stand in a balanced way in that stall
1:48:28
or
1:48:29
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:48:29
loafing shed.
1:48:30
All those things start to come into play and, and you just have to go walk out
1:48:36
to your barn and see different eyes.
1:48:39
How are they standing?
1:48:41
And how can we help that?
1:48:44
And, and you know, and it's not a perfect world.
1:48:48
And then there's things we can do, you know, is a saddle
1:48:50
fit is do we need to shim it?
1:48:53
'cause there's asymmetry.
1:48:54
But if that symmetry gets better, so it's, you know, it's,
1:48:58
it's not a one and done thing.
1:49:01
Mm-hmm.
1:49:01
Mm-hmm.
1:49:04
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:49:04
Interesting.
1:49:04
So yeah, we have a whole nother thing to talk about.
1:49:06
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, we do.
1:49:07
And I'd like to get into that.
1:49:08
You know, when we discovered classical in hand work.
1:49:13
Yeah, it
1:49:13
Rupert Isaacson: was just such a game changer.
1:49:15
You, you'd have horses coming in with kissing spine, you'd have horses coming in
1:49:19
with, you know, stifles that effectively weren't there anymore and stuff.
1:49:23
And just by going through these patterns, rather like a martial
1:49:27
arts pattern or a, you know, a yoga pattern sort of, you know, it would
1:49:32
completely, completely transform the horse, as you say, provided certain
1:49:36
other things have been taken care of.
1:49:38
And that absolute no hopers, you know, would come in and just completely
1:49:44
transform over time through this type of movement, which again, just comes down the
1:49:48
ages provided it's not done forcefully.
1:49:51
So it, it's so interesting how you've also pinpoint movement and as you say, all
1:49:56
the stuff that say Linda Ellington Jones teaches, which is often modified forms of
1:50:00
that and the labyrinth work and the way she wraps the horse's bodies and gets them
1:50:06
to activate certain parts of the nervous system as they're work, as they're moving.
1:50:10
And this sort of thing.
1:50:12
What I feel is often missing, but I'd like to, we'll go into this in the
1:50:17
next one is it can obviously be very stressful for people who are running
1:50:20
programs to think, oh shit, well when am I gonna do all this stuff?
1:50:24
'cause I haven't got time because, you know, I just got loads of clients coming
1:50:28
in and I must serve these clients.
1:50:29
And also this is what pays, you know.
1:50:32
My wage and the pay bill and so on.
1:50:34
So what we, we've evolved is a way of making sure that every
1:50:38
client session includes this very kind of movement weather mounted
1:50:42
or unmounted and always both.
1:50:44
And if it is gonna be a mounted session, it's always gonna include these unmounted
1:50:48
exercises as part of the therapy session so that there's no chance of kids ever
1:50:53
just being like, led around in circles.
1:50:55
But it took us a while to evolve to that, you know, and to say, okay,
1:50:58
well one can actually address that time conflict and that stress that
1:51:04
so many bar owners and that guilt of, God, I'm not conditioning my horses.
1:51:08
You know, because people are coming at it with good intentions.
1:51:11
And to learn how to do it at the same time.
1:51:13
So what I'm also intrigued by is, you know, and perhaps we should talk about
1:51:16
this too on the next one, is how to begin to teach not just barn owners,
1:51:21
but also their clients, how to do the very things that you are talking about
1:51:27
here, the acupressure, the posture stuff, how to use the lasers, you know, how
1:51:34
to recognize what is a good farrier, what is a good dentist, you know?
1:51:38
'cause people don't know, you know, and they only know if someone tells them.
1:51:43
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:51:43
That's why I'm doing a class in July.
1:51:46
Okay, so how do we find out about your class?
1:51:48
So a three day
1:51:48
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:51:48
class, and it's, you know, I'm not, I'm gonna introduce those different things
1:51:53
because you don't have to do it all.
1:51:56
Some of it will resonate.
1:51:58
Yeah.
1:51:58
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:51:58
But you should be aware, and just like when my horse was
1:52:01
injured, I was aware of the laser.
1:52:06
Granted it took me seven months to listen to myself, but
1:52:09
mm-hmm.
1:52:10
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:52:10
You know, if, you know, these things are out there and, and not to bash colleagues,
1:52:17
but when you go into a vet or with a trainer, you need to know what is okay.
1:52:25
Mm.
1:52:26
'cause you'll be presented with things that may not be, and I don't know
1:52:28
many horses that are born that have a steroid deficiency in their joints.
1:52:34
Rupert Isaacson: Mm mm mm.
1:52:35
And
1:52:35
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:52:35
need constant, you know, and Oh,
1:52:37
Rupert Isaacson: so agree.
1:52:38
I so agree.
1:52:38
And,
1:52:38
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:52:38
and the, you know, that goes down another rabbit hole, but injecting
1:52:43
the joint when it's because they're not using their shoulder.
1:52:46
Right, right.
1:52:47
Or, or, you know.
1:52:48
So, that's my purpose of the class is to tell us
1:52:52
Rupert Isaacson: about the class then.
1:52:53
Where is it?
1:52:53
When is it
1:52:54
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:52:54
It's at Happy Dog Ranch in Sedalia, Colorado.
1:52:59
July 21st.
1:53:01
22nd.
1:53:01
23rd.
1:53:02
It's three day.
1:53:03
Okay.
1:53:04
The amazing thing with the ranch is they have rooms to rent.
1:53:08
So what I love is when there's clinics, there is the networking and the bonding.
1:53:15
So Happy Dog Ranch is a place that
1:53:16
Rupert Isaacson: people should be aware of.
1:53:17
No.
1:53:18
Like Chris.
1:53:18
What's
1:53:18
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:53:18
that?
1:53:19
Rupert Isaacson: Chrissy and mark Rashid work out of there.
1:53:22
Yeah.
1:53:22
Just tell us a little bit about Happy Dog Ranch.
1:53:25
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:53:25
It's, they, they were pushed out of Littleton, but it's an old sport
1:53:30
horse barn, so it's a gorgeous indoor arena, gorgeous outdoor.
1:53:35
They, they are sanctuary when they take in a horse, they don't try to flip
1:53:39
it in and adopt it back out because they, part of their philosophy is these
1:53:43
horses have come there for a reason, and the ones we can rehab, they'll rent
1:53:49
out to people who come from Europe or East Coast that don't have a horse.
1:53:54
Mm-hmm.
1:53:55
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:53:55
And for like Mark and Chrissy's class, or there's experiential learning.
1:54:00
So they, all the clinics they attract are things that help the horse and
1:54:09
human bond, I think is a, is a way.
1:54:12
You know, they're, I've all, like my, I've, I've been aware of Happy Dog
1:54:14
Rupert Isaacson: Ranch for a while and I I need to go check it out.
1:54:16
You know, everything like you
1:54:17
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:54:17
do.
1:54:18
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:54:18
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:54:18
And I'll be glad to show you around.
1:54:20
But now they have 120 acres and the horses get to live out on
1:54:25
pasture most of the year in herds.
1:54:29
Mm-hmm.
1:54:29
And, but the, you know, the workshop, what I love is how, you know, a chiropractor
1:54:35
comes from Vermont and, i've met different work Linda telling Jones has been there.
1:54:44
You know, all these different modalities.
1:54:47
Mm-hmm.
1:54:47
I met them when I was learning cranial sacral therapy.
1:54:52
We were working on their horses.
1:54:53
So the horses get lots of body work Okay.
1:54:56
Through the massage class or cranial sacral.
1:54:58
Rupert Isaacson: So they're feeling pretty good.
1:55:00
Yes.
1:55:01
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:55:01
Yeah.
1:55:01
So, you know, so they give back.
1:55:04
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:55:04
Yeah.
1:55:04
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:55:04
And, and I, I think a classic, I went there because I read
1:55:09
the dial qui and I knew that my gilding worked with me like that.
1:55:13
So I wanted to go horses.
1:55:15
I didn't know.
1:55:16
Okay.
1:55:16
Which took me to Sharon Brion in at Happy Dog, and my first lesson was
1:55:24
to move a horse in the round pin.
1:55:27
But being a veterinarian, I had to do, I had to do it from my heart and not
1:55:31
from my head, and I could not do it.
1:55:34
I got that horse to go maybe a quarter of a circle.
1:55:37
Okay.
1:55:37
And, and I, you know, I, I didn't take up their time because I could
1:55:41
see this was not gonna happen.
1:55:43
So fast forward 15 years later, I was in Linda's or Sharon's class because it
1:55:49
was there and we were supposed to go out in the rant, out in the gilding herd.
1:55:55
And she wasn't gonna let me in to do this exercise because she thought
1:55:58
they'd all come up and ask for help.
1:56:00
And this is where the horses know.
1:56:03
But I did get to go in and we had to connect with the horses from our heart.
1:56:08
And so I connected.
1:56:09
I mean, they knew the exercise.
1:56:11
No one came up to ask for help, but at one point I was surrounded by
1:56:16
three horses, like surrounded with horse heart energy, and, and I'm just
1:56:23
marveling that 15 years ago I couldn't even connect with one horse heart.
1:56:28
And, and it was, it was just the neatest feeling.
1:56:33
And, and the next day I was surrounded by Mark and Chrissy's three horses as well.
1:56:38
So, it's it's place where magic
1:56:42
Rupert Isaacson: happens.
1:56:42
Well, people will be listening to this podcast at any time in
1:56:44
the next, you know, 10 years.
1:56:46
Right?
1:56:46
So they may not make your July, 2025 clinic.
1:56:51
But if they, I presume you're gonna be running them.
1:56:53
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:56:53
I hope to continue and ex probably expand.
1:56:57
Rupert Isaacson: So this is where, you know, how do people get in touch with you?
1:57:01
How can they book up to do these clinics?
1:57:04
And also how can people consult with you perhaps online and, you know,
1:57:09
get the benefit of your wisdom?
1:57:11
How do people contact you?
1:57:12
Yeah.
1:57:13
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:57:13
Probably the best way is j Varus DBM at gmail or@yahoo.com.
1:57:19
Rupert Isaacson: J bar, V-A-R-H-U-S.
1:57:25
And after that.
1:57:26
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:57:26
DVM Dog Veterinary medicine dvm@atyahooyahoo.com.
1:57:35
Rupert Isaacson: So I'm gonna read that back for listeners.
1:57:39
Contact Janet on J-V-A-R-H-U-S
1:57:50
dvm@yahoo.com,
1:57:55
J bar dbm@yahoo.com.
1:57:58
Do you have a website as well where people can find out about your courses?
1:58:01
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:58:01
I, I don't when I left my practice site, I'm technically retired,
1:58:06
but that hasn't gone real well.
1:58:08
Rupert Isaacson: Why would one do that?
1:58:09
Yeah.
1:58:10
One could be talking something to do something else, but Yeah.
1:58:13
Yeah.
1:58:13
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:58:13
No, but you know what?
1:58:14
I went into veterinary medicine because I knew, I didn't know enough to make
1:58:20
a living, raising, breeding, training horses, but I could learn to be a vet.
1:58:24
And, you know, about 15 years, 15, 20 years ago, the horses
1:58:29
started calling me back.
1:58:30
Mm-hmm.
1:58:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:58:31
And I, I credit them for saving my life in childhood, and now
1:58:36
I get to give back to them.
1:58:38
Yeah.
1:58:40
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:58:40
And it, it's beautiful.
1:58:43
It's my passion and what I've always wanted to do, so.
1:58:46
Rupert Isaacson: So can, so people can, can contact you there to
1:58:49
come and partake in your courses, looking at equine wellbeing at,
1:58:54
at every level, at this, at Happy.
1:58:57
They can
1:58:58
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:58:58
also get ahold of at Happy, happy info@happydog.org.
1:59:02
And
1:59:02
Rupert Isaacson: do ha And does Happy Dog Ranch also post presumably when
1:59:05
you're gonna be there, I should imagine?
1:59:06
Yes.
1:59:06
Yeah.
1:59:07
Yeah.
1:59:07
So Happy Dog Ranch also has its own website.
1:59:10
I'm sure I'm gonna
1:59:12
Yes.
1:59:12
Rupert Isaacson: Go look at it in a minute.
1:59:13
But type in Happy Dog Ranch listeners and you're gonna find Janet, mark, and
1:59:17
Chrissy and other wonderful people there.
1:59:20
And can people also consult with you online?
1:59:23
Like could they zoom like this and say, okay, I've got this issue, you know?
1:59:28
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:59:28
Yeah.
1:59:29
Because of the veterinary constraints, I often do nutrition consulting.
1:59:33
Okay.
1:59:34
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:59:34
But a lot of what I do is not drug based.
1:59:37
Yep.
1:59:37
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:59:37
So it can fall in the scope of of just consulting and not out of not
1:59:44
practicing veterinary medicine.
1:59:46
Rupert Isaacson: Got it.
1:59:47
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:59:47
But I do a lot of online consulting or
1:59:52
Rupert Isaacson: because we've people in the UK or, you know,
1:59:56
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
1:59:56
yeah.
1:59:56
And I've actually done some distance work with people in Europe.
2:00:01
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, good.
2:00:02
And Asia, you know, there's, there's a lot of need.
2:00:05
Yeah.
2:00:05
Yeah.
2:00:06
And
2:00:06
Rupert Isaacson: you know, particularly we, we work in Asia
2:00:08
quite a lot and again, people are trying to do the right thing, but.
2:00:13
They're often being told something that may or may not be so useful,
2:00:18
you know, then they see that their horses are going downhill.
2:00:20
This often happens, and they can really benefit, I think,
2:00:23
from this kind of knowledge.
2:00:24
So I might turn some of the people that we have over there onto you and say,
2:00:28
look, this lady's a great resource.
2:00:31
She'll help you look at it from a, there's the work.
2:00:34
I'll help if I can point of view.
2:00:36
Say that again?
2:00:36
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:00:36
Yeah, that's, I'll help if I can.
2:00:39
Rupert Isaacson: Great.
2:00:40
Okay.
2:00:41
So listeners, yeah.
2:00:42
Contact her do the right thing.
2:00:43
Pay her.
2:00:45
But, but contact her and, and ask for her help because there's, there's a,
2:00:47
there's a lifetime of, of wisdom here.
2:00:50
And the reason that we connected, by the way, is because Mark and Chrissy Rasheed
2:00:54
said, look, you have to talk to Janet.
2:00:57
She's like, the bear, talk to her.
2:00:58
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:00:59
Okay, mark and Chrissy told me to do it.
2:01:00
I'm gonna do it.
2:01:01
So we immediately kind of reached out.
2:01:03
And so I'm, I'm so glad this happened, but I do feel we've only scratched
2:01:06
the surface in the time we've had.
2:01:08
So could we agree that we'll do a part two and possibly a part three and go
2:01:13
into other aspects like the movement, you know, like how can we perhaps avoid
2:01:19
injecting joints and things like this?
2:01:22
I, I, I think this is the stuff that people really do need practically.
2:01:27
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:01:27
Yeah.
2:01:27
Sure.
2:01:28
And I, I mean, I think financially it's a less least cost.
2:01:33
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
2:01:33
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:01:33
Often.
2:01:34
And with a better outcome.
2:01:36
Rupert Isaacson: I so agree.
2:01:37
I so agree.
2:01:38
So
2:01:38
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:01:38
yeah, no, and that's, that's just my, like the laser.
2:01:42
I just want to get the word out that there are options.
2:01:45
Rupert Isaacson: Great.
2:01:46
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:01:46
And, and on so many levels, there's, there are options and, and people
2:01:52
are looking for that, I think, more than they were 10 years ago.
2:01:55
Absolutely.
2:01:56
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
2:01:56
Well, I think we, we've all tried the other way and for sure.
2:02:01
Yeah.
2:02:01
And when you bump against the limitations, you must look for
2:02:04
other things, otherwise, yeah.
2:02:07
You'll just keep bumping your nose.
2:02:09
Yeah.
2:02:09
Yeah.
2:02:10
So Janet, thank you so much for coming on.
2:02:12
Thanks for giving up so much of your time.
2:02:14
Thank you.
2:02:16
It's been an honor.
2:02:17
I've learned a ton and I've taken a bunch of notes here and
2:02:19
stuff I'm gonna follow up on.
2:02:21
Well,
2:02:21
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:02:21
considering I had no idea what we were gonna talk about,
2:02:24
has we gone by really fast?
2:02:26
Rupert Isaacson: It has.
2:02:27
So can we book another time to go down the rabbit hall again?
2:02:31
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:02:31
You bet, you bet.
2:02:32
I love that.
2:02:33
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
2:02:33
I'll be in touch.
2:02:34
Okay.
2:02:34
And I look forward to meeting you in person.
2:02:37
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:02:37
Thank you.
2:02:37
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you.
2:02:38
All right.
2:02:38
Till the next time.
2:02:39
Dr. Janet Varhus DVM:
2:02:39
Take care.
2:02:41
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2:02:44
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