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Conversations #2: Dear God, Can I Speak to Management? · The Father's Business Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome everybody to the Father's Business Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Kimberly, Roddy, and I are here today with you.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, oftentimes, Kimberly, when we're not recording, there are conversations you and I get into that I've thought, you know, that would be a great discussion to have on a podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: So a few of those have bubbled up in the last month or so.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we have decided to do a short podcast series called Conversations with Elizabeth and Kimberly for lack of a better title for it.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: But a couple of weeks ago, I think, you and I were talking, and it was just a throwaway comment.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like we weren't even talking about this.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: You were just saying that on the way to something else.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you were talking about that it's easier for you to trust in the sovereignty of God than it is the provision of God.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not as easy.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not as I'm sorry, I said that backwards.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as easy for you to trust in the providence or the sovereignty of God as it is in the provision of God.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we went on to say something else, but I I I was like, huh.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm the uh I'm the opposite of that.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's easier for me to believe in the sovereignty or the providence of God more so than in his provision.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So and that just kind of got my mind turning.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, let's okay, really, let's kind of dive into that and kind of figure out where that's coming from.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: When this conversation just I mean, it it really wasn't a conversation.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're having the conversation now.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have not really had this conversation.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I remember we we do a lot of Marco Polo, that's the app we use and we talk back and forth to each other and we're doing a lot of different things.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember the full context, but it's not really that relevant.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I do remember saying something about it's I just find it so much easier to trust in the provision of God.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I immediately thought, okay, well, is that connected to my gift?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because we do talk about our gifts here at the Father's Business.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I am a giver gift.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Givers often find favor in the marketplace.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're not looking for it, but there is a connection to favor and and provision.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just kind of thought, well, I just naturally trust, and maybe that's just my gift mix and how God's wired me.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then you made a comment back when you were talking to me about how, well, I would say the opposite.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a simple comment.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then you also said something about our families.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, family systems is a big thing that I like to study and talk, we talk about.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, well, that's obviously connected to my story.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have often said I had a dad who would show up and I knew he would work hard for our family.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't doubt those things.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like my dad was a contractor for many years.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: When I was in college, he was working for another company, and that company, something that happened with the company with downsizing or whatever, he lost his job at that company.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, don't worry about it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then he struggled to find another job, and they're like, We think we need probably need to come home for a semester.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I went home and I was really upset at God because I was like, you could fix this.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I was like, I watched my dad work to provide.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I watched him over and over again go to work and show up.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he even wrestled with a calling.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I wondered at times, does dad feel like he wants to do more with his life, but he feels like he's got to provide for his family?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because he didn't have a father that showed up for him.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know that totally, but what I do know is that in my family system, my mom's parents worked hard, my parents worked hard, and there was just provision.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I have always felt intuitively, deeply internally, like God's got it.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just God's gonna work it out.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: He will provide, he will show up.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is different from God's sovereignty.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you would say that it's harder for you to believe that God's just gonna show up and provide?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I believe God is in control and he is in all things and all over all things.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And but when it comes down to the day-to-day things, as I, you know, the one comment I made to you back, and I was like, let's talk about this later on a podcast, was some of this I can trace back to the family system.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So because on both my mom and my dad's side, my dad's dad, he lost his mom when he was a teenage boy, and it was the middle of the depression.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he was sent to go live with some older aunts who when money was scarce, so you there wasn't a lot of food.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: But also these two aunts who had never had kids of their own had no understanding of how much a teenage boy eats.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he was always hungry when he was in high school and college because they they thought whatever portion they ate, as you know, 70-year-old little old women, was should be enough for a 14-year-old boy.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: That is not going to be the right amount of food.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so he never got over that feeling of not having enough.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was this scarcity mindset that he then ingrained in my dad.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And even when my dad had a job and you know bills were getting paid or whatever, there was always the, but everything, it could all fall apart.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like you always had to be prepared that it was not gonna be there.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that wasn't spoken really loudly at the home, but you knew that was the vibe.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't spend money on things because we have to make sure we have enough in case something horrible happens, kind of thing, which is wise financial stewardship.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, but it was heightened.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And also, my mom will joke that, you know, if worrying was an Olympic sport, dad would be gold medalists.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there was this, there was a culture of worry about things.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I am one who has to think through the three contingency plans of what might happen, just so I kind of know in my head, okay, if this happens, what would happen?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which is hysterical because when a crisis really hits, all that goes out the window.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't know what to do.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But my brain has just been kind of wired to constantly be thinking about plans A, B, and C.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And some of that was being raised by my dad.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Also, on mom's side, her story, you know, if you've read Safe in the Father's Heart or heard our podcast, is her dad left their family.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so now my grandmother's been a stay-at-home, you know, person and now is having to find work a job or whatever.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure mom also grew up like provision has left, you know, because again, this is a time and age where the man was the one who worked and provided for the family, and he said, see you later.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I inherited from both of them this idea of maybe there's going to be provision or maybe there's not, because all of those families, deeply, deeply devoted to God, believed.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my grandfather grew up to be a music minister.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there was faith there, but there was still this feeling that while God is great and good and sovereign and big and in control of the whole universe and all these things, there may or may not be enough.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And as I, you know, was processing through that one little statement you said, you know, using my car time to think about these things, I was like, you know, I also was in my mid-30s before I got married.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: That is, I'm one of those people that I was just hardwired from 16.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about when I'm going to get married.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you go to college, you meet someone, you get married, you start a family, because that's how everyone in my family had done it before me, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when I graduated from college and wasn't married, not even dating anyone, that kind of threw me for a loop.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then we get through all of my 20s, still not married, into my 30s before I finally do get married.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really struggle with a lot of jealousy over every time someone else got married, God wasn't providing for me.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Part of the season God had to take me through is just because God gives something to someone else doesn't mean he's holding out on you.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like God's big enough.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: There, there's enough either money, husbands, whatever in the world.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like if she gets married, that means I'm not gonna have a husband.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I really struggled with worry and jealousy.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And as you made that comment the other day, I was like, okay, this is where my story has helped craft my vision of God.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I have got to learn to lean into the truth, which is he is always faithful.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he has always provided it, hasn't always looked the way I wanted it to, but I have to work hard to believe it's all gonna be okay.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I know just from being around you, like there's a lot of us.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, it's it's gonna work out.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, how?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, it's gonna be fine.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even as you were saying that, I was just thinking about my grandmother, my dad's mom.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad had a sister, and their father left when he was in second grade, she was in first grade.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so my grandmother basically raised my grandmother raised him alone, and with the help of her mother and her sister, I believe.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so my dad grew up in a house with a lot of women.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what I remember is when I was a kid, we would go to grandma's house for Christmas Eve, was our tradition.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And my grandma worked in a South Carolina mill her whole life, I guess her whole life.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't know if she was working when her husband left her or not, but she obviously had to start working with a first grader and a second grader.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Christmas at grandma's house was like Christmas morning.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so just even thinking as you were sharing about your your family, I'm thinking, you know what?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: My grandmother, who worked as a single mom, single grandmother, sometimes made my parents mad that we got so many presents on Christmas Eve, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, wait, you're overshadowing Christmas morning.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But my grandmother showered us with provisioning gifts and loved doing that, like very generous, even when she was she was living in a duplex.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she did not have a lot, to be honest.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my my mom's parents, my grandparents on that side, my papa and grandma, my grandfather was a music minister, and then they had a laundry business with his brothers, and they were very generous as well.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I remember just very deeply rooted in hymns and music and just joy and being filled with just contentment and praise.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my mom always singing that song, He's been faithful, He's been faithful.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, there is a rich history for both of us.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a rich history in our families of trusting God and looking to God and believing in God.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: But somewhere in there, we everyone clings to different characteristics of God that stand out in their story.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I can't totally speak to everything in my in my story as far as provision, my family story as far as provision.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I was just thinking about my grandmother in that particular story.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for me, even when my dad was sick, I didn't doubt that God was gonna show up.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I always knew he was there.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, sometimes I was like, could you just leave me alone?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think you've been good right now.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I trust your sovereignty.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big piece of my story.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to be defined by that, but that was a huge marker spiritually in my life of God, I don't know that I can trust you to be good.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I can trust you to be in control.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because if these are the decisions you're gonna make, this feels like you just ripped the rug out from underneath me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yet through all of that, I saw his provision and his care.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that in control, God in control piece is not easy.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in our last conversation, we talked about how are how are we different, how are we similar.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: One way that we're similar is we both like control.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and if we're both in control, we can butt heads a little bit after I figure it out, you know.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that probably do you find that tension of God being in control versus you being in control?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And yet you're saying at the same time, you're saying it's it's easier for you compared to provision, God's provision, it's easier for you to trust his sovereignty.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you reconcile some of those concepts?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I mean, my constant line often is I I'd like to speak to management, please.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I know he's making all of the decisions.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in the you know, 50,000-foot view.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: God is in control.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: A bird doesn't fall out of a tree without God knowing about it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's every detail of all of our lives.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: He is present and he is never surprised.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: God is never surprised because he is so other than us.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I can believe in the bigness of God very easily.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the control piece is sometimes sometimes I don't see his provision at all because it doesn't show up in the way that I thought it was going to.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a timing issue.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, you show up at the last minute, but you know, you could have shown up a little earlier.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that would have made me feel more comfortable, which is the control issue.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would have been more at peace knowing this is taken care of, which would require less faith on my part.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or going back to the idea of whether it's marriage or being single or they got a new car and I don't, like, you know, whatever this thing is, there was a season.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am much better about it now.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a season really in my 20s when I saw God blessing someone else with provision.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: My immediate thought was kind of like he's got only got so much in his bank account.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that meant something was just taken away from me.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not true because he can bless all of us as much as he wants to bless us.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think subconsciously, like my parents never sat us down and said, Okay, here's the family budget, and we only have this much money this month.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: But there was kind of an understanding in the house that everything we wanted was not going to happen because of our income at that time.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, later in life, they were in a different season and they became, I mean, I watched when uh when the grandkids show up, things change and and they were very generous and still are and and love abundance and those types of things.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it just left me wondering, not that can he do it?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he can, but will he?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where the provision piece um is a little harder for me.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question that you may or may not want to answer on camera, Kimberly, but I know another part of your story goes all the way back to the very beginning when you had colic and your mom didn't they didn't understand it was colic.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if even it got printed back that far that there's no one no one here is in control and no one here is big enough to make me feel better because you were in a lot of pain.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't understand that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was told I had a temper at first, so the baby must have a temper.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how are you telling a baby they have a temper?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're crying, something's wrong, but I was crying all the time, three days old or whatever, and mom couldn't figure it out.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, a doctor just said, She's got the good old Tommy colic or whatever, you know, and so my stomach was just irritated.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm bursting blood vessels in my fingers because I'm clenching the sheets so tightly.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a firstborn, and mom didn't know what to do.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember mom telling me later that at one point she said to my grand both my grandmothers, I need you to take care of her.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she went on a small business trip with my dad that he was going on, and she cried the whole time.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do think the reality is my mom didn't know what to do.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, I didn't know what to do because I was dependent upon my mom.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just didn't know what to do in all sincerity.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And no blame or anything there.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You just you don't know what to do.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Your children and your parents and your families don't come with manuals.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it could be that early on I knew I'm having to fight for myself.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't even know what that means as a three-day old or five-week old or what however long it lasted.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But God bless my mother, however long it lasted, I think it must have been miserable.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I know things changed when she figured a few formulas and different things out or whatever.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I I it could it could go back to that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mind talking about that part of the story.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've done some work around trying to understand that, but it's so much of it you can't understand because you were a baby.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've I've asked the Lord, you know, we talk about what it looks like to be in the womb from our perspective as a child and also for the mother's perspective of carrying the child, and we've done some work here at the father's business of through the womb exercises.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been times when I've asked Jesus, you know, help me understand, share with me insight because you knew me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: You made me in my mother's wound, you knit me together.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, why why does anything happen that happens?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's the grand old question.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can talk to God about that one day.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it won't matter as much when we're with him.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it will.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, those things shape us no matter what.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so probably, I mean, the simple answer is probably.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: It it probably shaped the fact that no one, it didn't feel like anyone was in control.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Especially the the authority figure, the person who's kind of you know the not saying your mother is God, but the godlike image in your life didn't know what to do.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was not in control.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And didn't fix it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the other thing, is like you were referring to.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to talk to management.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: There is a there's a key factor.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I like I go back to Genesis and I think about Adam and Eve in the garden.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I go, yeah, I I want to do things my way.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy when I'm in control to figure out how to fix it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes it's not, honestly, but most times it's like, okay, I'm gonna fix this, I'm gonna take care of it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whether I do it right or wrong, I'm gonna fix it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna jump in and fix it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: When we don't see God doing that, I I honestly have a really hard time with that.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: When my dad got sick, that was such a big marker for me because he was a young 51-year-old at the time, and I'm in my 20s, and my brother's even younger.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, you know, mom and he are supposed to have this life ahead of us leaving the house.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't what it's supposed to be, just like you were saying, and yeah, you know, you dream of being married and all these kinds of things.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's lots of stories there, but I could not reconcile why God would choose that path.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it just for me, it just became he can't be a good God to choose that path.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, I think through that, through my anger and wrestling with him through that journey, what I did see was his provision for me.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which probably even further cemented in me, he'll show up.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like the way he shows up.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But he showed up.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though I struggled to trust, is he good?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's like the lion, the witch in the wardrobe, right?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like Aslan, is he is he good?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is he good?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: He may not be safe.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: But he's good.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: But he's good.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes we, I mean, we all at some point, I think, wrestle with this.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: If we're honest, I don't like it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some people are taught not to be honest with that.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew, God, I don't like this is not good.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, because this is not good, and I know theologically, mentally, intellectually, you're in control, then therefore I don't know that I want you to be in control because I can't trust you to be in control.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yet you're showing up for me all the places over here, and I know you are, and I know it's you.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I trust you.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the tension in the faith where we walk through these seasons and people are like, You're gonna lose your faith.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're so struggling, you're doubting God.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I was like, there's no way.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I see God through and through in this.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't like this characteristic and not real sure it's real and good or true.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yet I know it is.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point you have to lay down that wrestling and go, all right, ultimately I'm gonna trust you.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And decide how to do that.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or how to continue wrestling through it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure those early moments play into it along with all of our other stories.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's true for all of us.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone listening to this podcast.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talk about it some in the Safin the Fathers podcast about your earthly relationship with your father will impact your how you see God as father.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think even broader than that, just the whole family system, the life circumstances, everything that you have experienced is going to imprint your perspective on who God is.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Much like we talked about in our last podcast, you referenced the moon is around.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: God is the moon.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same moon for all of us.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the way you see the moon versus the way I see the moon is like the quarter, the half, the sliver, the full, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So each of us, as you said, there's areas where it's it's gonna be easy for us to believe certain things about him.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And other places we're gonna struggle.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the beautiful thing is, is God knows that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: He knew that when he knew what our stor how our story was gonna unfold.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I think about Job and all that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: God's like, yeah, he's been one of my most faithful people.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's one another one I'd love to talk to management about someday.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, no, now why was this necessary?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he didn't do that to Job because Job hadn't been faithful.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's because he had been.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then he goes through all of that, and Job finally, I think one of his greatest acts of faith was coming to him and saying, excuse me.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he had his own let me talk to management moment, where through several chapters he says, Why are you letting all this happen to me?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he couldn't from his human perspective.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And God's response never answers the question.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where that is more my bent is, okay, you're not gonna answer the question of why you waited this long to allow this into my life or provide it this way or handle it that way.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna feel at times like you promised me things and then you broke your promise, but I know you didn't because you don't break promises, but it feels like it.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when I come to him with my why questions, it's very rarely that he has ever, I mean, I'd have to really think hard to think, has he ever answered my why?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's given me the same kind of answer he's given Job, which is this is who I am.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now it and with Job, it was like, where were you when I was creating this?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, can you do this and do that and kind of put his glory on display in front of Job to remind him of how big he is.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I I'm able to hold on to that part of it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a verse that really was a life verse for me for most of my life, which is I know who I've believed in, and I'm convinced or persuaded that he is able to keep that, that I commit to him.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that piece where I can trust to the I know the long term view that he's able.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But that's also where my biggest heart rate comes from, which is what you're talking about, is you could have done something different.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: You could have either not given our dads the diseases they had, or you could have cured 'em and you didn't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you could have provided this thing that I wanted.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I was praying for my future husband from the time of like 14 or 15 years old.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I just had to pray for him that long.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: He needs a lot of prayer.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: But all these verses, you know, trust in the Lord and He'll give you the desires of your heart.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm not asking to be rich and famous and be a supermodel.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm asking for something that you say is good, which is it's good for, you know, man and woman to join and ha and have a family and and yet you're not giving it to me in the way that I want it in the time that I want it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that that is that wrestling of I will never not believe that he is able.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then I'm not seeing him be able the way I want him to be able.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as we've taught as we've talked about this a little bit, all of God's characteristics are linked together.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: His faithfulness, he'll be faithful to us and he'll be faithful to his own word.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we don't feel like he's faithful to us, but he's faithful to himself and the truth of who he is.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he'll provide for us and he'll show up for us and he will be sovereign over and in control of all things.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we wrestle with how we see that and how we experience that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yet there is a bigger cosmic order to things that he understands and sees in a different way.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so you've even said a couple of things in this conversation that I think would be interesting to revisit.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to ask you those things right now.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to hang on to those in my head and we'll come back for another conversation of just thoughts from Kimberly and Elizabeth about things.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to that.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for being with us today.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.