Latest / WoT Spoilers / An Arrival, A Narrow Passage, Pond Water - New Spring ch17-19 - EP588

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An Arrival, A Narrow Passage, Pond Water - New Spring ch17-19 - EP588 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: When I met Never, she definitely wasn't much of a
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: book worm, but you know, said she was a david
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: reader as a kid, but you know, adult life comes
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: along and you don't get to it. And then she
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: started reading smut romanticy and all of a sudden, she's
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: going through a trilogy a fucking week and just like, oh,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I need more audible credits, Oh I need you need
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: to download these books for me again. Oh I'm out,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: my kindle needs refreshing. It was like, holy crap, how
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: many books are you going through? Even I can't keep
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: up with this. So yeah, things have changed. The kindle
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: is getting it's like burning hot, you know, it's flipping
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: pages so fast.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So it's always fun to discover, like a genre, a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: book that pulls you back in and gets you back
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: into reading. I think that's really important.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Returning to a childlike level of enthusiasm for something is
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: like such a sign that you're doing the right thing
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: right and that you are well regulated and well resourced
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and actually feeling safe and oh so good to hear.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Speaking of childhood things, New Spring and Arrival.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this book is from my childhood. That is true.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: We all have time for me very much. Is a
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: childhood thing that I've been obsessed over for the last
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: ten years.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Is Like, I would never
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: claim that these are somehow like the best books ever
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: or like books that everyone needs to read, But man,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: did these books form my childhood and define how I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: got out of childhood and into adulthood. And like they've
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: been there for me since childhood. And yeah, is there
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: comfort blanket books?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And I wouldn't call them childish books, but they were
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: there for me in my.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Childhood precisely, precisely. But you know, as I've gained a
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: wider horizon of literature, it's like, yeah, these are pretty
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: pretty basic books in some respects compared to other stuff
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that exists. I would not claim that these are the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: pinnacles of all literature, but they are there for me.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: They're the pinnacle of They were my north star as
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I was getting through stuff.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: And I think they still do something that I don't
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: think any other series has pulled off as effectively.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, within the sphere that it operates, yeah for sure, Yeah,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: for sure, for sure.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And like the grand storytelling and the POV writing. I think,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody else writes as good povs
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: as Jordan does or has sense and the way that
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: things are from that POV you can see things going
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: on that you have no idea what they are, but
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: you can still comment on them, and then you can
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: put those clues together in the background and find out, like, oh,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: if you know all these different povs, you can figure
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: out what's actually going on. But no single POV has
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: any you know, knows everything. And I think he's still
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the best at that. I think that that's like what
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: he does better than anybody else.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't even try to find anything else
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: in this space at all. I've just completely moved on
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: to other genres, Like this to me is high fantasy,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm just anything else I'm reading. I'm not even
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: reading in the same space anymore. I'm completely elsewhere with
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: what I read. And I don't know.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would call Dungeon Crawler Carl high fantasy.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It's certainly not sci fi, despite the fact that there
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: are aliens coming in the game.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Mechanics are really different as a textural palette to be
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: world building with.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: And That's where I think I've said this before, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I really consider the lit RPG genre to
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: be something that's not fantasy and not sci fi.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree with that. That's why I wouldn't
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: bin them the same, because like, this is fantasy. What
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: we're reading here, Dungeon Crawler Carl is its own beautiful monster.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: It is in a different genre. It's just in a
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: different genre. The whole game mechanic aspect of it is
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: just it's just not comparable to any kind of magic
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: system I've ever read. It's too technical and too digitized.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't feel analogue like every other magic system I've
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: ever read.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You know, because I mean it's a set of game rules.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It's it's like literally it's jamanji, you know, Like.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is this is fantasy in the best
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: sense of the word. There's yes, smart horses, and there's vibes,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and there's mysterious birds, and like, this is fantasy. This
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: is swirly robes and perfectly artful hair and you know
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: all that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And often when I find, as I read, especially fantasy,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: very little fantasy is perfect. But often they do. The
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: stories I read do one or two things really well,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and if I can enjoy those aspects of it, I
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: can ignore. You know, like I go back to like
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Caanus trilogy. Do I think they have the best characters? No? Do?
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I love that series for its time travel mechanics and
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: it's you know, really good twists and the way it
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: wraps it all up in the end that is incredible satisfying. Absolutely.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Would I then say it's a bad book because it's
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: characters aren't the best, No, No, not at all. I
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: still think it's a really excellent book. And that's just
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: not the point of that book is not to focus
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: on creating these complex, best characters who go through this
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: incredible journey. Now there are one or two who are
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: very very good, right those the main characters, But in
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: terms of like creating a large, diverse cast who I
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: care about, that's not what that book is about.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Totally, totally. But what this book is about is Land
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and Moraine meeting and Land throwing Morain at a pond.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Perhaps everyone's favorite moment from this book. I definitely one
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: of the top three if you ask anyone like what's
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: good about this book? That time that Land threw Moraina
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: into a pond.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Definitely it's also the thing that's referenced, right, that is
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the anchor of the story that they tell, Right, is
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: that like when we met, I threw you in a pond,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: and also all the bugs and insects.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Which we'll get to, and then you dumped the pond
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: on me later, right, which.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Happens and both that happens in the sequence. Right, It's good.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: It's the anchor. Like you said, it's totally the ancher.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Plus a little bit of Codswain, you know, is she
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: dark friend material? Which at the time that fed into
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the book in which this was public right, because like
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: when Codswayin was introduced, there was that little bit of
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: a question like is she a dark friend when Varren
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: was going to poison her?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, for sure, you can tell when this was published.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You can tell where this was in the publishing order
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: by the fact that it is making kat Swain an
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: unknown quantity, Yeah.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Which that was. I still don't understand Codswain's purpose in
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: this story from beginning to end. I never understand her
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: purpose in this whole story. Teaching them to be men
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: again just feels like she was a rock in the
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: road that he stumbled over and went oh, I guess
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: men stumble right, like, and I guess her job was
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: to be the rock, you know, Like, I don't know, man,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: she's as a Marine replacement, she's not my favorite.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I'm nodding. She's a crappy mentor. That's the best I've
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: got is that she's Jordan exploring the concept of sometimes
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: even shitty mentors managed to not screw up. Like that's
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the best I've got. It's such a like kind of explanation.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, as a Moraine replacement, and seeing her here
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and how she handles early Moraine and like Marine, can
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you just punch her, just hit her with a knife
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: like rate in.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: The solar place? Can you decide that she's also a
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: dark friend and just take her out in this moment? Please?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, exactly.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I think I should probably read us into chapter
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: seventeen and arrival. And the symbol is the moon and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: star's hair ornaments, the Codswain, the CAD's sway charm.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Chasing after Prophecy Moraine had decided by the end of
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: the first month involved very little adventure and a great
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: deal of boredom. Now three months out of tarvalin her
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: grand search consisted mainly of frustration. The three oaths still
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: made her skin feel too tight, and now saddle soreness
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: added to the mix. The wind rattled the close shutters
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: against their latches, and she shifted on the hard wooden chair,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: hiding impatience behind a sip of honeyless tea. In Candor,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: comforts were kept to a minimum in a house of mourning.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: She would not have been overly surprised to see frost
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: on the leaf carved furniture or the steelcased clock above
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the cold hearth. And yeah, the scene is her on
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: her umpteenth visit to a woman who had a son
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: born around the right time and discovering bodies instead of
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: simply an inaccurate identifier.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: And we're at three months, three months out, you've got her. Basically,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: she gets news about Kyrie in and sort of hears
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: about this war that's killing a bunch of people, and
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: she's kind of like, E, if I'd been taking the throne,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: that or may not have been so bad and maybe
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: people wouldn't have died.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Like people still would have died, but maybe not as many. Possibly, Yeah,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit of guilt there, and Also she's trying
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to be very grave and have loss of gravity and
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: be very serious, and she's she's knowing that she's too
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: gosh darn young.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is pull that off. There's a little
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: bit of that again, just that the parallels with the Supergirls, right,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: because they are trying to pull off being I said,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I very young. They're faking it. Moraine's actually been raised,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I sid I. But in some ways she's less exceptional
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: than they are. She's one of the more powerful, I said, I,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: but she's not legendary the way the Supergirls are. Right,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: there are women who are more powerful than she is
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in the White Tower, and we're about to meet one
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well in the White Tower is yeah, well.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: White Tower.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but but yeah, it's just again funny contrasting Morain
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: before she it's the ageless Face, and before she has
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: much experience outside of the Tower with Moraine twenty years later,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: which he's got the ageless Face and has spent twenty
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: years carrying the burdens that she is in the act
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: of picking up. Over the course of this book, like
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: she's so just the ultimate gravity. Well, once we get
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to her in twenty years, but here She's like, augh, man,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: this is just I'm too young looking for this shit.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I think I am now the age that Moraine was
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: when she went into The Two Rivers.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, right, in Moraine's age.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I'm an old Moraine, old Morain's age because she was
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: she's twenty five here, and this is twenty years before
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: she goes into the Two Rivers. Yeah, so she's forty
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: four to forty five ish at the beginning of the series.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And you started out reading them when you were ramsig
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: take younger than that.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, younger than that probably Raven's age, Ravens's age.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, more accurate to me too.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, kind of kind of crazy to be,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: like to go through that and be like, oh, yeah, no,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I went from being younger than the emmons Field five
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: to being these damn young whipper snappers. Don't know what
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: they're doing going out into the real world, Gonna have
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: to train their asses.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: So.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Moraine has not only been finding corpses, right, she's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: also been finding girls and people that were born too
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: far away, et cetera, et cetera. But she's also at
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: the same time finding people who were just a little
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: too lucky for their own good. And that's the case here,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: is that the baby she saw, as well as all
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: of his male kin all died and what is clearly
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: an assassination looking for lucky people.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is definitely the black a jaw for
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent, like taking out anyone who's lucky. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: then of course if they're lucky, then they have channeling
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: in their family. And since channeling is genetic, question mark
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: because it's also linked to the soul. But whatever, we
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: won't get into that right now.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have time. Ain't nobody got time for
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So says it's genetic, the black out jaw is taking
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: out the entire family just in case one of them
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: happens to be you know, the dragon reborn or related
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to it. Right, that's why we're getting all of these murders,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and especially the murders of the lucky people, because that's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: how the power manifests. People go, oh, they don't think,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: oh this man is channeling. They think, oh, he's lucky.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: And that's that's happens a lot with women who are
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: channeling too. Right, it's very it's amazing that that she
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't think about that pattern and think that like, oh,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: maybe these lucky men are channeling when she thinks so much.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she thinks about it, but we
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: know that women who are lucky often are milders.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna put this out there. This feels
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: almost like a weird, unexamined sexism thing because women aren't
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: lucky because women don't gamble, right, A woman will have
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: an instance of luck where a branch falls and saves her,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: but only men do the dirty, nasty, sinful thing of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: gambling where you would observe luck. Like when is a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: woman ever described as lucky?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So okay, here's my take on it is that because
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: men channeling is so bad, that's why the it's no
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: one even wants to consider that they're channeling, whereas women
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: maybe they're lucky, but maybe they're like, oh, well, maybe
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: they're just channeling. So that's because the corruption and the
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: taint and all that kind of stuff, right, Like.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: That's the well, that's the thing is that like a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: lot of men should be going insane, right though I
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: guess in flicker flick eror flicker, Rand does have one
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: vision where he's just lucky for decades as a soldier
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't. The rot doesn't come for him until
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: like late in life. So I guess that could be
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: happening like with a lot of these guys with the luckiness,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Like the ones that don't go insane for a long time,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: can just stay lucky for a long time. I don't know.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I think most of these lucky guys are just lucky.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think these are a lot of channelers that
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: are being like hunted down and killed, Right, that's not
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: what I think is going on.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Oh Okay, they're just being so scor shirth about it.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just scorre shirt. They're taking out anyone who's
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: even got a rumor of being lucky much less is
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: actually lucky or is actually channeling. They're just sort of
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: using a proxy variable, is how I would describe it.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So that means that they're taking out a lot of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: people who are like, for lack of a better word,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: subclinically tivererin.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Well, and then then you have to ask yourself, like
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: how lucky They can't be lucky because that's getting them
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: killed they can't actually right.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, is luck real just a phenomenon or
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: like a thing that we think we observe as pattern sneakers.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Do you want to talk to mad about that?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Well, because that's and that's where I got to the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like maybe these people were like could have had relevance
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: in how the last battle went down as like a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: bannerman or or quartermasters or like these little things that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: like because ultimately, right, everyone is connected, everyone is involved,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and so if you're the kind of person who would
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: go towards being involved, like with the war at the end,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a little bit of like tevere and tugging
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: almost that gives you a little bit of luck, so
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you're available. And then I don't know, I just is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: luck real because Matt has special magical reasons for being lucky?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Is that true of everyone else? Or is luck some
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: sort of natural emergent phenomena? Or is luck just a
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: pattern seeking hallucination of the human brain and these people
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: are dying more or less randomly because they happen to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: have a string of random occurrence has happened to them?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Or is luck pattern seeking? Get it rock?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, which pattern seeking?
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Is this?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Is this capital P pattern seeking? Or is this lowercase
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: P pattern seeking?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Little bits about early Morraine instead of saying the wheel
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: weaves is the wheel wills. She says, the wheel of
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: time weaves us into the pattern as it wills, but
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: the pattern is the work of the light.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that needs an editor, needs some work.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: But she is going by Alice, which is the name she.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Uses, Alice.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: We also get the name of the book. How these
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: people could call this new Spring without a hint of
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: mockery was beyond her.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: That's the second time they use it. I think it
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: gets used repeated the book just because it's like a
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: nice little touch stuff.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and okay, here's something pretty important. So you
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: know this was a novella before it was.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: A novel, right, No, I don't think I knew that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, So actually I found this in my research recently,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if I brought it up. But
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: New Spring was written short of as a short story
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: by Robert Jordan first, and he expanded it into this novel. Okay,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So there's two versions of New Spring out there. There
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: is a novella, short story version of it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I did not know that.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: So in the novella where she says the book contained
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: hundreds of names, there are some examples of names in
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: her book Oh really, there are there are names. Sarah
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Dosin Mail Aidwin carry All thor Mail Tamlin, second captain
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: of the Ileinar companions. There she is so yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: So the fact that she had a newborn, she and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: tam to some extent went and registered the newborn for them.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: There's something. Oh but remember you don't have to someone
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: can tell them, right because if you you're told.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the woman who was childless and then got
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: a baby delivered to her fresh from the battlefield would
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: have made an impression on her tent neighbors in the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: camp for sure.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And also it's tam Lynn, which tells us that tam
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: M's full name Tamlin t A. M. L I N
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Tamlin althor.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's his full government name. Are there other names?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Those are the only two. I'm reading the notes of
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Encyclopedia Watt and so those the only two that are listed.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, cool, that was fun. I don't have access
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: to the New Spring novella or whatever you want to
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: call it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, Athlon tam was from the Two Rivers, like born
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and bred, and then left and adventured and ended up
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: ultimately joining the Illy Honor Army. In the course of
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: those adventures.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And married Carrie. Married Carrie, I don't know what her
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: original last name was, Althor. While in the army, she
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: wanted a kid. They couldn't have kids. At the end
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: of his tour, he found rand It left the Eye
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: after the Aelo War, and took both his new wife
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and his new baby home, claiming basically that she was
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the mother.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean she was going to be taking care
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: of a brand's bank and new infants, so that's pretty motherly.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Right, So let me read this. New Spring was originally
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: published in a note as a novella in the speculative
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: fiction anthology edited by Robert Silverberg entitled Legends Short Novels
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: by the Masters of Modern Fantasy. This was at least
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine between Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: He later expanded the novella into a standalone novel, although
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: fairly short, and was published in two thousand and four
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: between Crossroads and Knife of Dreams.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Interesting, I had no idea.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: This was originally written back basically have Bright before Winter's Heart. Interesting.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna see if I have can get a hold
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: of the of that book. Legends Short Novels of Modern
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: fantasy that should be a chievable. Yeah. I don't know
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: if it was the first of an outrigger novels. It
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: feels more like he wrote a short story as a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: prequel and then expanded on it. Yeah, I think that's
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the one man. These are the names of the names.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Stephen King's The Dark Tower, Terry Pratchett, Stick's Discworld, Terry
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: goodk kind sort of truth right, even though he's a scumbag,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: he was part of that group.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Of like this is nineteen ninety nine, this is going
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to be a dated levels that's got cards. Also a douche.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Robert Silverberg who actually read his books, they're very you
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: get sucked into a D and D world. I would
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: call that one of the first lit RPG genre books
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: that existed. Ursula K. Legwinn, Tad Williams, George R. Martin
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: and McCaffrey, Raymond he Feist and Robert R. Jordan. I've read.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I recognize all but one of those.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Names, which one don't you recognize.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Like the fourth last one and this new one that
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: you just get anyway. Silver Burg, Ye, yes, Silverberg, I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: hadn't heard. And then Tad Williams on Yeah, Tad Williams.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: That doesn't ring a bell.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: You have not read Tad Williams.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Oh man, okay, that is The Dragonbone Chair is a
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: really good classic. Now I'm not sure that it holds
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: up as well as it should, but it holds. I
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: think it does hold up. We want to talk about
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Tad Williams because he also wrote some He wrote something
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: called other Land as well, which is you get pulled
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: into a VR world and again a little bit of
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: rpg A right, Like the genre has been around for
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a while, depending on how you want to classify it,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: but that's some of the first Like you're sucked into
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: a VR that you can't get out of and how
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: do you deal with that? And like this, if you
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: die in the virtual reality, you die in the real world. Yeah,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: City of Golden Shadow and yeah, Tad Williams. And then
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: he wrote wrote one of a really good, really really
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: good a memory of a Memory of Thorn in Shadow
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: or something like that. That's the first book, is The
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Dragon Bone Chair. Let me look it up.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Huh. Well, this kind of sounds like a good anthology
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: book to get just on its own.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Merit, Memory Sorrow and Thorn trilogy. But yeah, I mean
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: this is this is if you know all those other
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: authors that I just mentioned and you haven't read Tad Williams.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, yeah, like hmmm, one of these things
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is definitely like, yes.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it's like you should probably just go ahead and
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: read it, right Yeah. And they're big tome I mean,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: they are Robert Jordan's size books. They're they're thick. You know,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: the third book it's a four book series because the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: third book was too big to publish as a single book,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: so it's volume one and two.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Right, like these people in their final book.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, Simon, a fourteen year old boy is
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: the chosen one, right, Like, it's the really good books.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Highly recommend them if you like that nineties genre and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: you're willing to go back and realize that, yes, this
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: was written in the nineties, so it's going to have
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a certain level of tropes and such in it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Neat. So the next thing I've got in the book
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: is her walking down the street looking at how there's
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: lots of eyes to die, and you know, she's obviously
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: playing up that she's a wilder, but she's seeing actual
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: eyes to die, and she sees a stout woman that
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: brushes by, and I'm like, a varn Is it vern
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: she's thinking about? Is said, A stout woman is there?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Surely it's Varren.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It might not be very I think that's a reach.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I think that's a reach.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Should be the only stout woman in the world is Varren.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: But then again, there's black ou Job high jinks, and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe Varyin's out here killing lucky men.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: You never know, you never know, you never know. But anyway,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: we're introducing the fact that Moraine is surrounded by is
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: sade while pretending not to be. Is said, because I
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: said I, a lot of them have not been around
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: long enough to or not been around in the tower
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: recently enough to know that she's inn is to die,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And she went through the training relatively quickly, right Like,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: staying out of the tower for a couple of years
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: is no big deal for some, I said, I, but
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: they missed her entire journey because she only took what
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: how long was she in the tower?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Six years?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Six years?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is really quick. Yeah. So yeah, if a
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: woman's away for a decade, she could have missed the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: entirety of Moraine's career as a student. And then there's
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: this note about the fact that there's a true wilder
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: at the Inn. Mistress Asher, this woman who can't channel
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: very strongly and is a merchant and she's super self
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: effacing blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, is
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: she the kid? She's a successful merchant who wants to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: avoid the eye of eyes to die, but is a wilder?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: My money's on kid, Yeah, very much.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Could be.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Like her gray hair ensures that they're not interested in her,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and she's trying not to draw their eye. But she's
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: also like doing what we know the kid do, which
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: is being around the continent doing successful business things, bringing
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: you know, eyes and ears and recruits and resources as necessary.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good call. Yeah, no, I think
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that's absolutely what she is.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And me Aaron the mistress, well, the former mistress of Novices, right,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: she's not Mistress of Novices anymore because of the Omberline change.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Every but dark friend who's gonna get stabbed in the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: back for being a dark friend? She's here.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And again I think this is the only time
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: we hear about Mistress Asher.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I figured so but there's no reason not
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to think she's kid. So I'm head cannoning she's kiding
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: like the stout woman being Varren is a stretch. Missrs
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Asher being Kin is not a stretch.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And Laurel is hanging out with Miren.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: The last time we hear from Morrel is after Miron
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: says that she changed her mind about going to Cha
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Chin and headed south in chapter twenty five. She never
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: appears again in the series.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Oh she's dead under it in a ditch.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she ends up dead in a ditch for sure.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: She she is shallowly buried on a rural road. That's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: where she is. Kat Swain sentences her to death when
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: she insists that the two of them accompany Moraine. She
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: essentially consigns that one to death.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Bit, basically, I mean, Maarn's the real bitch here, but right.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Right for killing her. It's like, you know, was assuming
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: codswayn didn't know she was black because Codsway seems to
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: have the woolpole over her eyes when it comes to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: the Black Aja. She's very much focused on external threats
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: the way that Baron is focused on internal threats. It's
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: like the State Department versus the the army or whatever.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: No internal affairs, I don't know.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, CIA versus the FBI.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, we'll go of that. And they sort of
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: they they make they're assuming that Moraine is one of
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the Wilders.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Athen says there is a Laurel. No, yes, is there
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a Laurel a memory? But I don't know. Flana sounds
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: like a name we do see later.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, there is a Laerel of the Blue Aja
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and a sitter from the Hall. She's from Kyrie Anne.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: One would assume that is not the same who's the
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: gray Adja in New Spring?
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Do we see Falana later? That name sounds really familiar
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: She is in Knife of Dreams. She is part of
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the group that captures a GWayne at South Harbor and
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: bring her to the White Tower. They find they bring
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: bayonin to Alida when she betrays the rebels.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, Iflana is a loyalist, just.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Around and they stand guard at Lianne's cell when Agwaine
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: comes to visit. Pretty much background loyalist character, no big
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: lines or anything like that.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, as Moraine is waltzing through the room,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: getting around all these different eyes to die avoiding them.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Catswain shows up and she knows exactly who Moraine is
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and is not allowing the misapprehension to go unchallenged.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: No, no, and the strength differentially differential between them is stark.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we get a good chunk of cat Swain
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: backstory as Moraine reflects on this.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a king of Terrebaan winked out of his palace
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: when it learned he could channel carried the tarvall and
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: to be gentle to one army that did not believe
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: chased after to attempt rescue. I don't know if there's
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: any details more than that, but we can imagine.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. She says a thing
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: for kidnapping I noticed in this, and I feel like
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: that's also in support of the idea that she might
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: be Black Ajia, given you know Rand's relationship to kidnapping, right,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: It's like, huh hmmm, can we trust Katsmin. She's got
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a thing about kidnapping, and kidnapping has only been done
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: by the bad guys, So.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Didn't she also kidnap a king in the modern world
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: like Darlin? Is that?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah? She took away a Darlin And uh, Caroline Damadred.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: She imprisoned them under house arrest for a bit. I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: don't think she was responsible for getting the King of
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Ilion or Ara Domain kidnapped, but those were both eyes
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: that die plots right.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Well, here it says she had the probably this is
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: old news, but the king of Aradomon and the Queen
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of Saldea both kidnapped. Puts them together and basically makes
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: them argue and come to a piece.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those were different monarchs. Because her lifetime is quite long,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: she's like.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: How many kings of Aradomon have I kidnapped?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. It's also rumors that she once assaulted in
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Omerlin and got away with it.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I believe that.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: She's really strong in the power, she's really strong in
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: her personality, and she's really strong in her reputation and
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: track record, so she can do whatever she wants, and
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Moraine is not going to go against that at this
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: point in her life.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Well, she says here, even a woman as strong as
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: cod Swain had no right to order her here. But
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't it just because they're out of the White Tower.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I thought cod Swayin is the more powerful one to
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: have every right to order her around.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: But she's really strong. Katswain can suggest what she should do,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: but she's cod Swain, so you obey.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: That's the thing is, she's got more than just power
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: matthy hierarchy behind her. She's got her personality on top
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of that. Plus, you know, Morain has barely fledged her
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: wings as an isod eye.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: But why does Morene says she had no right to
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: order her here? Right? I thought that that would be
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: like God Swayn would have every right to order around
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: because she's more powerful.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: She's not that much more powerful.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: But I thought, you know, I was thinking Moraine and
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Swan hadn't reached their full potentially yet, so they're not
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: quite at their power level that the they achieve in
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: either world.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: You know also that Yeah, yeah, it's like it was
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: what she says here. There is something of Swan about
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: this woman, only magnified. Swan had been born to lead,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Kad Swayn had been born to command. It's just you
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to challenge that and see what happens, even
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: if legally technically you're within your rights to tell her
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to fuck off, Like, do you really want the smoke
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of doing that?
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So God Swaying gets the low down on Moraine and
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: all the bullshit she's pulled as a novice, and like
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the pranks and everything and so on, the connection to Swan,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: the fact they're pillow friends.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that they're good friends, close friends, romantically
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: involved and academically entwined and prank prone and all of that.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: What goes for one goes for the other.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: And then of course Moraine lets it slip that she's
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: going to cha chin.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Womp, womp. She gets a lot of people in the
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: line of fire when she says.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: That the inexperience of Moraine here, who the experienced Moraine
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: would never let it slip. This is sort of contrasting
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the one we see in the later books versus this.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: One Moraine and I have the world is not going
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: to be furiously attempting to keep her tongue still in
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: this moment. This is a Ninive level of temper. Right,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: This is how Ninive responds to Moraine in twenty Years,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Right is Moraine is sitting there, being calm, being firm,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: telling her what's what, while Ninive struggles to contain her words.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: But this is Moraine before she learns that chillness. Right,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Moraine in twenty years having the same conversation with the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: same kat Swain would be way more for dy chests
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: about it. But now this Moraine is a child in
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: so many ways. Still she's easily goaded.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You know, like no, So then I have codswayin sort
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of violating a bunch of norms and talking about age
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and power levels out loud.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: And being sarcastic, Am I disturbing you? In this like
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: incredibly like false tone of voice, like, which is a
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: great way to use the three oz's, and also be
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: snarky as hell because she is literally asking am I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: disturbing you? But she's asking it in such a way
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that she's like, and if you're disturbed, you're a wuss
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and I have never respect for you. And I love
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: that from her.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Pants has the information from the novella. I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: want to read that out.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Ooh Brown Aja for the wind.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Hundreds had given birth during the Key ten Days, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: in that sort of gathering with soldiers from nearly every land,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: too often there was only rumor as to exactly where
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: or when a child had been born, or to where
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: the parents had gone. With the war ended in the
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Coalition army melting away along with the coalition. There were
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: too many entries like Sarah docin husband Edwin from Mirandi,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: a son, question mark, a whole country to search, only
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: a pair of names to go by certainty the woman
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: had born a boy. Too many like carry all thor
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: from andor question mark husband Tammelin, second Captain of the
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Illanic Companions, took discharge. That pair might have gone anywhere
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: in the world, and there was doubt she had had
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: a child at all. Sometimes only the mother was listed,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: with six or eight variations on the name of a
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: home village that might lie in one or two or
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: three countries. The list of those easy to find was
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: growing shorter rapidly.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Oh that's good. That pair might have gone anywhere in
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: the world and there was doubt she had had a
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: child at all. Boom, there it is.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: That's the answer. That's the entry. I wish that was
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: still in this book. I wish she hadn't taken that out.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Honestly fail. Yeah, I don't know whose call that was,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: but it was the wrong one.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But I love that that entry is in there and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: get mentioned, gets mentioned.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Ah, thank you, doctor Pants. On top of giving us
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the cool icons for every episode, you all are coming
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: in with the paragraph long facts. So yeah, kat Swayin
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: basically throws out this counter to the idea that she's
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: just an antagonist and she's just black Auja, because she says,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to break all of these customs and norms
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: to have a discussion about how we dwindle. And that's
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: a problem. And Moraine, you know, has spent a lot
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of time worrying about that in this book, worrying about
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the fact that the isid I are dwindling and what
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: are we doing about it? And the fact that kad
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Swain is like willing to upset all these traditions to
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: talk about it makes her seem more enticing than just
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: an antagonist, which is interesting.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: She does mention five powerful Isidi that would include Lelaane
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: and Romanda Romayne or two of them.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, of course.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And then Alida is the next one after.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: That all antagonists.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Codswain and Mylin are the two she talks about here,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: and then of the next three that would.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Be, oh yeah, Mylin and Karen are strong. But Mylin
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: dies also because she's one of the searchers.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I think she's just old.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: As Karine does look Karenni let me look her up.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Uh yep, she is murdered by the Black Eye.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Ja.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So not only do the searchers get killed, but
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of the strongest channelers that Taber has left
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: to offer get killed. Kad Swain survives yet another gauntlet
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: when she does not get purged in all of this,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: which is entirely because she was not around to get
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: tapped by the Ammerelin to be brought into this, because
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you know that if Tamara had had access to Kad Swayin,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: she would have brought her into the search.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Right well, because I think when Moraine's like, oh, she
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: mentioned two of the searchers, I wonder if that means
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: she's black, and it's like, no, the Ammelin just picked
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the strongest I Sidi to be the searchers, and she's
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: talking about the strongest I sidy, so that I feel
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: like is just a coincidence that she's talking about the
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: strongest and of course the Ambulin picked the strongest to
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: do the sir.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Katswain has no reason to believe that Rand has
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: been born. I think until more or less of these events,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I think the events of this book might be what
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: triggers Kad swayin to start wondering between this and all
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the murders. Right, the events kind of this year in
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the next couple of years is why what is it?
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: How she puts it to Rand, like when he's still
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: a dripping from one end or the other. Right, she
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: gets clues that he exists, but she's like, yeah, he's
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I'll come back later. This is part of how she
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: gets clued into that. But yeah, she has no idea
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: about the search that Tomra initiated. She has no idea
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: about the list of names. That's all stuff she's going
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: to have to put together over the next couple of
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: years as she collects these clues starting now. Basically, this
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: is the moment kad Swain gets brought into it by
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: virtue of running into Moraine and asking questions. This technically
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: initiates her into the series of events that leads her
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: to being Rand's advisor. Great, sometimes you know, you just
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: got to be in a tavern and run into a
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: new question initiation, and then that's what happens for the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: rest of your life.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: So it's a Teverean tavern.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Basically, Basically, this is what is this called the gates
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: of heaven. Yeah, yeah, so you know she walked through
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the gate into the heaven of being critical to the
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: end of the world.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Interesting reference heaven. Yeah, in my Wheel.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Of Time there's I think a Sean Shan reference to heaven.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: But that is it otherwise.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Because there's no biblical heaven and there's no either's rebirth,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: So what does heaven mean to them?
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hmm hmm.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Man reading Miren as a dark friend is knowing she's
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: a dark friend. You see these lines where when Codswayne
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: forces the two. I said I to go with Moraine.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Miron took it better, saying she would look after Moraine
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: like a daughter, though her smile hardly looked please.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like hmm. Interesting. I don't know, just there's just
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: knowing how she's like, oh, yeah, I'll look after like
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: a daughter. Will you or will you kill her?
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Who knows? Maybe she has killed other people she's taken
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: in charge before. I mean she was mistress of novices.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Kat Swayin basically says Moraine is so strong
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: in the power that she's too valuable to be let loose.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to just pick the next two eyes
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: to die in the room and assign them to watch
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: over her and just make all these decisions. For these
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: full grown adult women who have perfect rights to do
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: whatever they want. I'm just going to tell them all
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: how to live their lives and expect nothing to go
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: wrong about it. It's really in a lot of ways,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: kat Swain still has some growing up to do. You know.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: She still thinks that she can just order the entire
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: world to suit her, and she ultimately has to learn
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that that's not completely true. But she won't learn that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: until Rand goes all zen Rand in like twenty two years.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: So for now she's just arrogant and annoying at max volume.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And one small change from the novel to the novella. Here,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Katwayne says, you've won showll only four months or so,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: and you have and you have affairs that cannot wait.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: In the novella she says five months. Minor difference. That
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: got corrected. She's been on the road for three months
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: since she won't left a month after she got was
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: raised right, So at some point he did the math
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: and went, oh, that's four months, not five.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just a small correction. But yeah, she says,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: you haven't learned your first real lesson that it's time
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: to start learning, and also caution and also I will
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: beat you up so bad if you do not stay
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: in bed tonight. Moraine kind of freaks out and skidaddles
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: out of there. As we transition chapters.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Chapter eighteen, Moraine returns to the common room.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Chapter eighteen is a narrow path and the symbol is
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: the dark friend eyes to die faces.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Interesting because it really feels like this chapter is focused
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: on cod Swain and using the dark friend facing icon
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: makes me really think that the Cod Swain is a
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: dark Like he's dropping these hints left and right, the
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Codswayn is a dark friend.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's making it very clear that he wants you
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: to wonder that if she is a dark.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Friend, right and totally a red Haring away from.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Mirn exactly exactly. And the first relevant thing that happens
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: in this chapter is that Swan pokes her head in
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: the door in direct response to Moraine wishing that Swan
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: was there. It's like Taverin levels of poof there you go.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: And you know the first time I read this, I
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, they're still in Tarvallin, so Suan just
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: like no, They're like, she's been on the road for
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: three months. How did Suwan track her down?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Because they both have the book Morain said when she
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: hugged her and left, she said, you know where I
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: will be in what order? So Swan knows the path
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: that Mareen was taking, and she doesn't have to duplicate
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: all the interviews, right, so she can just speed run
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: that distance, knowing what the trajectory was, right, because they
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: organized the names by distance from.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Still Man, knowing the timing and how long it takes
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and where, like she would have to just run behind
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: like pick up the path where she was.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Okay, she's part of the Blues, Eyes and
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Ears network. At this point, she knows what the order
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Moraine is going to go, and she just has to
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: spot check the progress as she makes her way in
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: that general direction. But yeah, Swan shows up and talks
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to Moraine. You know. They go into this narrow passage
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: into this alley way so that Swan can share the
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: disturbing news that all of the searchers are dead and
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: she has proof positive that one of them died under
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Right, died in her sleep and yet was not in
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: her bed when she died in her sleep.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe six other eyes to die all died peacefully in
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: their beds were randomly while traveling, but that one didn't.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: We know that for a fact. And also note cheswel
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Emory is the one who makes the announcement, and we
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: know she's dark, dark dark. She is black, black black
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: black black Aja.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Well, which is interesting that they don't investigate her but
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: never like Oh, chesmul the one who spoke the lie
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: might be the one who's black.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: You would think that that would be relevant.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: She also a moment here where Suan slipped a note
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: with her suspicions under Sirrin's door about the black Aja, right,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: just so somebody else knew. Guess what happens to Siren?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Really she dies in her sleep too.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Chesmel Emory takes her out.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, how did cheswel Emory know but not get
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: to Swan? If Swan putting the note under her door
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: makes the difference in how does Swan not get targeted too?
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Or is it just because she's Omorlin and the note
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with it?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: It might have nothing to do with it. It's she dies,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I mean she rules for another five years so this
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: is no, you know, probably nothing to do with the.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Note, unless it prompted Sierraan to start doing an investigation
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: that led to her getting.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Right maybe eventually. But this is Cheesmul induces in a
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Crown of Swords and Winter's Heart, we find out that
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Cheesmul basically manipulated the Red Ajaw to murder that amuln
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: So why we don't really have good reasons, but wow.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, they skip through the idea that it could
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: be a red plot pretty quickly and move on to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: holly crap, the Black Aja is real and we are
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the only ones left because Tamra never formally mentally filed
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: us in with the searchers, and.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's because she like dismissed them out of hand.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I think it was a plot on her part to
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: have searchers that aren't official.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think that she could intend it and not
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: confess it, but I think that she allowed it to happen.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Like saw it happening and let it happen.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think she orchestrated it from the beginning,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: but when she saw it happening, she very deliberate. They
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: looked away so that way she would have contingencies she
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: couldn't control. I like to believe that she saw what
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: was happening and very deliberately allowed it to exist.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: It all seemed hopeless. Who could say how many black
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: sisters there might be? Twenty fifty and a terrible thought more.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Isn't it like three hundred something like that. Yeah, it's
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a third.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Of it ends up being a quarter of all the iceidy,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: it's like a third or third of the reds I think,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: but it's a quarter of all iceid eye which yeah,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: when and that number is around one thousand, give or
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: take at the beginning of Eye of the World, three
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: hundred go with the rebels, three hundred go with the
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: White Tower, and three hundred are just wandering around to
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: give or take. So yeah, if a quarter of those
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: are black, Auja, that's two hundred and fifty, right.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So when she thinks.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe more than fifty five times are upper range, Yeah, yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: That's quite the underestimate, my girl. And then there's this
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: great moment of you know how the boys are always
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: talking about how the other ones are good with girl,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: and how the girls always talk about how the other
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: one is more brave. This is one of the most
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: like self aware versions of that. It was gratifying that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Swan only nodded she would not give up for all
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: her talk of shaking, and she never considered that Moraine
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: might most gratifying, especially when she still doubted her knees.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: It's the most self aware version of that, where they
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: actually are seeing each other in that, and it's it's
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: cute because they're really good friends. They've been friends longer
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: than we see the Mmon's Field five interacting on the page, right,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: like the Amospel five have been friends longer, but in
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: terms of what we get to see happen on the page.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I mean certainly longer than like Elaine is friends with
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: any of them, or you know me and is friends
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: with any of them, right, Oranda or Aviendo?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or even as long as Marine has known any of.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Them, right, right, if only she had Suan's courage.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Then we get a line where Robert Jordan tries
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: to say that they're not real lesbians because uh, Moraine
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: reminded her of their pledge during their first months in
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the tower that what one owned and belongs to the
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: other as well, and she muttered, we swore we'd find
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: beautiful young princes to bond too and married them besides,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that's Jordan being like no, no, no,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: see see, and I reject that that is not relevant.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I don't believe Moraine ever wanted to marry a prince,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that she rejected that life. That's why she became isid.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I she had that opportunity, Like I just I don't.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that is appropriate evidence. Contrary, I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: think Robert Jordan's just trying to say that what we
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: can all see is not what's really happening. And I
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: feel gas lit sir, so no, I will not be
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: accepting that.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I just I find it ridiculous because it doesn't fit
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Marine's you know, part at a school story arc at all.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but now we get to the good part, which
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: is where a random dude is interacting with a randomized
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: to die and it's super obvious to us that that's
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: some black men, black dark friend, blackaja plottery that is happening.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: And I mean Moraine kind of clocks it too, right.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I mean she's like, I'm thinking about dark friends. I
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: see this weird behavior. I think it's dark friends, and
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: it is it's dark friends. And it's just like I
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: don't know. That feels a little weird to me. I
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: kind of like I would I would like more evidence
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: than just an I said, eye talking to a dude.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Well, but we do get more evidence by the end
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: of this section, right, because she sees that it's the man,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: it's Rain. Right when she sees Rain later, she's like, Oh,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: it's that guy that I saw, and we know there's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: at least one dark friend amongst all these eyes that
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I one assumes that that's what he was talking to.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I That is such a lethal logic to me. I
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: don't believe that you can make that assumption.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: He was talking to some other eyes to die.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Sure, I wouldn't like why. Like I said, I talk
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: to men.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: They're all suspicious of eyes to eye. Those three men
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: are so suspicious of all eyes to die.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: So I assume that the only eyes that I he
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: would go near is the one that he has to
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: because black aja obliger dark friend obligations override.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: I understand why it's obvious to us. I don't understand
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: how more Rain is clocking that in the slightest.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Because she's paranoid. She's not clocking it. She's just paranoid
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: as fucking every single thing seems like black godgs and stuff,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: and so it's funny that she sees actual black godges
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: of happening in front of her and has no idea
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: if it's her paranoia or if it's real. That's what's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: how I read it is just like just because your
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you, right, Like, that's
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: what this is. She has no ability to discern what
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: is paranoia and what is really happening. But because we
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: have time to be any type plot fourth wall stuff,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: she is actually seeing real evidence of dark friends right
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: in front of.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Her, because I mean, she says to herself, light new
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I said I did speak to men, and some did
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: more than speak, you know, and like, so there's nothing
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: suspicious about my said I talking to a man, especially
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: a pretty one like rain.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Right, But she just had the most intense revolution of
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: her life from Swan and so everything looks like black
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: cogs and stuff. She also thinks about how the only
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: reason why people suspeur to the Dark One is because
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: they think that'll get immortality. And I would have thought
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it was more complicated than that, but apparently it's just
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: the question for immortality. So then Maurine gets inundated with
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: street level information about how being a nice to dye
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Novius will be.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: But I just want to do one little thing. So
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: in Winter's Heart chapter ten, ches Mil brags about her
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: part in questioning Camera and how she induced the Red
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Aja to murder Sierin. So that's where we get that
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: information from. Is when it's art chapter ten, Chesmul's bragging.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: We don't know.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Why, okay, but it's around here, and if it's inducing
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: through the red then one assumes it has something to
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: do with fallout from the vileness or something, because it's
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: in this general period of time.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just it's weird that it's four or
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: five years from now.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Well that's when the vileness head rolling thing happens though, right,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: that's when people like Sutama gets sent off into exile,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I mean, not that that's why
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: the Omolin was killed, but like various layers of fallout
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: from that. I think maybe or maybe Chiesnol's just kind
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: of nuts and thought it would be fun to see
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: if she could get an Omerlin killed. Marien thinks about
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: how she's got another five years to go until she's
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: fully powered up, which kind of tripped me out thinking
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: that when she gets to the Two Rivers, she's only
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: like fifteen years into being fully fledged as an isid
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I all the way powered up, warded up, seasoned experience, Like,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: she's really only fifteen years into being a properly matured
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: eyed said eye when she rolls into the Two.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Rivers, she's still a pretty new I sid I. That's
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: why I like she becomes a legend after she tackles
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: land Fear, not before we know she's legendary, But she's
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: not legendary to the other I sid eye. She's just
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: been some Isidi traveling around, not really participating in the
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: politics of the White Tower.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Right, Like the paint is still wet on her shield.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: She's still green, you know, in the uncured sense when
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: all this stuff goes down. Sitters aren't allowed to even
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: think about being sitters until they've been eyes to die
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: for one hundred years. She hasn't even been ice to
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: die for half that. She certainly hasn't been a properly
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: matured eyes to dive for even a quarter of that.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And it also sort of gives you a timeline on
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: just how forced Agwayne must have been to get to
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: her full power in a couple of years Elaine as well.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I'm actually Elaine. I wonder about that because I don't
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: think Elaine was forced in the same way, was she?
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was never clear on when in the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: White Tower Aguaine was forced.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: It wasn't. She was forced when she was captured by
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: the Shawn Chan.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: No, but Swan apologizes for forcing.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Her, right because she put them in the way of danger.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: She sent them hunting the Black au jib Oh. Okay, okay,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: that got them sent off to the Shawan Chan. And
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that's what when she was forced.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, Elaine only was forced to the extent
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: that she could push herself on basis of emotional anxiety. Right,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: She was not Shawn shannified, nor was Ninive.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: But Ninive had years and years and years learned to
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: use the power before the beginning of the series.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: She didn't really use it that much though, like it happened,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: but she wasn't developing it.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: No, but she was powerful, she wasn't. She was no
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: longer love, she was no longer developing her power levels.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: At the beginning of the series, she was as powerful
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: as she was going to get at the beginning.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even makes sense to me because she wasn't
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: channeling on the regular before that, So like, how on
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: earth does that even make sense? It wasn't even I mean,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I guess it was about six years since she'd cured
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: a grain of breakbone fever or whatever. I don't know.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Some of these how the power matures through a person
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: rules feel a little inconsistent from person to person to me.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Sure, which kind of makes sense that it would be
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: a little inconsistent. But they they say them like they're
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: hard and vast.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: That's my problem with is if they said each person's
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: a little different, I wouldn't mind, but they're like, no,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: everyone's the same. And it's like, I don't think so sure,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like it. So yeah, Moraine basically decides
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: to go full pocket hobo and leaves with all of
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: her possessions behind her. She leaves her saddle bags, she
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: leaves everything with which she can fit in her pockets
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: in order to get away from Kat's wing.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of fleeing going on.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: She's got her book, some money, her sewing kit. Yeah,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: and she flees, she runs away.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: It kind of feels like you have the strip marine
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: down of all the privilege that she had in the
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: White Tower and as a.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Noble her baggage. Yeah quite literally literally yeah, and figuratively, Yeah,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: exactly religit. That's why I'm like, not everyone's the same.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: So yeah, with that, we can move on to chapter nineteen,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: the infamous meeting pond Water, and the symbol is of
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: course the snake in the wheel, because this is such
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: a fateful meeting.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: A fated meeting. Yeah, I mean, how important is it
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: that Land be the mentor for rand right?
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Like so important? And how important is it that ninive
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: grab Land and keep him alive for another for that
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: last stand? Like how important is it that he gets
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: that motivation, that fire under his ass that can actually
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: allow him to make that last stand for mal care.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Sam Moraine basically zips out like the gang does out
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: of barylon Right, gets to the gate and slips on
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: out with her horse earli early in the morning, and
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: there's three other dudes on horses that immediately clock her
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: and pay attention to her the whole time, even though
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: she thinks she's being very casual.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like, She's like, I'm staying inside of them
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the whole time, but I don't want to spook them
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: and let them think that I'm following them though. And
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: it's like, girl, the way she like gallops to catch
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: up with them, you think they don't see the trail
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: of dust in the air of you galloping like this
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: is very ignorant Moraine at this point.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: And granted she doesn't know that they have special reason
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: to be afraid of a lone woman because of the
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: whole you know, Lance ex lover wanting him dead thing, right,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: But even without that, girl, you are the most obvious
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: thing in the world. This is that bear like hiding
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: behind a phone pole.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very obvious. No, she stayed only close enough
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: to maintain sight of the men. No one need to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: attract their attention until she wished. Are you kidding me, Malkierre.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: That's like it's like following someone in a car and
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: driving like a party bus and being like, I'm not here,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know it just it feels so obvious. It
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: feels so obvious that Marina is staying within sight of them.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: She knows of Malchiir, but she knows like half of
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: the first sentence of the Wikipedia entry on malcire Like,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: she's just this is Elaine child, It's so Elaine like,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: which you remember, this is Elaine's aunt. They do have
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: a genetic relationship.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And they're both raises nobility.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is just very she's so arrogant and assumes
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: that she could just get away with me. It's kind
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: of cats mean, Like.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Really, three men on a deserted forest road could well
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: decide a young woman alone was a heaven scent opportunity.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: What is this heaven? Where in the world cosmology is
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: there a heaven? Show me on the doll? Where is heaven?
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. This is a world without heaven, without hell.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: This is a world with a very vague and ironclad
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: sense of there's a goddish creature and a devilish creature.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: And of course we also have to acknowledge. We have
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: not questioned the fact that Book five is titled The
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Fires of Heaven.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: But at that at least you would argue heaven is
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: the sky because they are calling fire out of the sky.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: But who is sent out of the sky? That makes
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: no sense. No one is being sent out of an
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: anonymous natural sky. Yeah, there's the gates of Heaven next
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: door in the town. There's a heaven sent opportunity for brigands.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: There's the fires of Heaven.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Those do feel different than fires of heaven, Yeah, because
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: fires of heaven does, fires of the firmament, fires of
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: the sky, right, Like, that's lightning coming out.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I think calling down lightning from the heavens is a
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: line that gets used a couple of times. But this, yeah,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: this implies the level of.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Capital age, heaven power the heavens.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Same with gates of Heaven, like I guess gates of
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: the sky. I don't know. We're probably overthinking this, but
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: that's what we do. That's why we get paid the
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: big bucks. Or it's just Christian figures of speech sneaking it,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: which is a simple explanation.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Interesting line here, a red crested eagle sort overhead, not
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: twenty paces up and became became a shape against the
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: descending sun, and so like an eagle outlined by a
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: red sun. To me, that just screams sean chan imagery.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's menethin, menethin that yes.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you. I knew it was some sort of imagery.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I was looking for that's the Menethren.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: That's fucking menetherin a red eagle on a field of red. Yeah.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: That that's which I mean, it's we're not really doing
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: a Menetherne sequence right now, but I think that's the
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: flag of Anetherne.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Menethrene is a red eagle against a blue background.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe it's just the fact
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: that they are both being called to the service of
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the Menetherine boys and girls.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because red Eagle Entertainment. Fuck those guys, right, they right, Yeah, exactly.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: I knew red Eagle was definitely a thing that yeah, yeah, yah, yeah,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: yeah because of those assholes.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, red eagle against a blue background or not
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: necessarily descending sun, but the blue background of the sky.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Against this clear sky will allow it. Yeah.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, the sign of Menethrine as the two of
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: the meet.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's well faded, well starred. There's a good omen.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: If if a shan Chan was observing, they'd be like,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: that's a powerful omen. Whatever this meeting is. This meeting
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: is about to be very important.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: So then, because the three men know exactly what Marine's doing,
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: they set a trap and Land goes off by himself.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: He noticed how he makes the trail for her to follow,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: like real easy. Yeah, he goes out of his way
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: to make some even a child could follow it, even
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: though she actually is not like other girls and likes
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: woodcraft just like his future wife lady, he makes it
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: easy for her to follow, just in case she's a
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: dumb city girl who doesn't know anything about tracking.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: It appeared this man was no woodsman though broken twigs
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: and kicked winter leaf fall left a trail a child
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: could have followed. Uh huh yeah, Land no woodsman whatsoever
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Because he doesn't trust that a lady in still knows
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the first thing about tracking, so he tries to make
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: it real obvious. But Moraine apparently is not like other
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: girls and likes to like to get dirty back when
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: she was a kid and actually knows a little bit
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: about tracking, and so finds him to be o fish
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: in his passage through the woods.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: And then I love her description of him an animal
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: too fine for his coat, so he must be a
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: bandit right like not? Oh, this is a man who
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: cares more about his worst than this appearance.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So judgy, so judgy, So like Ninive, she can track
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: him and she's just judging him head to toe constantly.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: He has a type, even though he's never romantic with Moraine,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: there is a type of woman who was attracted to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Land as a protector.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: So he's sitting down sort of watching the pond.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I think he's meditating.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, looking vulnerable is kind of how I put it.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he I think he's meditating because it gives him
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: massive awareness. But he's trying to, yeah, tempt her into
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: making a move that will allow him to assess and
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: disarm the situation.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: And so she steals his sword, but she uses the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: one power to do it, so she's able to do
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: it from the wrong place, right, So she grabs his
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: sword and he turns around. Later we see him sort
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: of looking at where he was sitting and where she
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: he grabbed her, and going like that.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Doesn't add up, right, because he was going to go
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: from more of like a martial arts like takedown thing.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she ended up getting like leveraged and launched
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: off of the sword, I think almost instead of you know,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: having her arm like twisted and brought down to the
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: ground like one might expect. But yeah, she has the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: very impulsive decision that she should startle him and be
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: standing behind him, holding her weapon and his Like, it's
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: the the series of her logics here is like an
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: eight year old, Like, what are you thinking?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Wrap them up with the one with air in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: the one power.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, there's so many more safe ways to do this.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Then I'll steal his sword from behind him and then
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: startle him while I'm holding a knife, Like what if
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: he assumes that you're about to attack him because you're
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: standing behind him holding a knife and taking his weapon, Like,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: this is very unsafe as a way of introducing yourself
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and making sure that he doesn't stab you. You're lucky
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: he only threw you in the pond.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: I also love that she can't hold on the side
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: r through being thrown in the pond.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: She's been struggling to maintain her composure through the temperature
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: of the air.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Getting thrown in the pond way too much for her
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: delicate self.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: And it kind of matches because it wasn't ice. The
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: worst thing that happened to her when they were testing
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: deal with the ice, Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Was ice forming inside her dress. Was in surefire, we're
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: to make her loser concentration.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Huh, So freeze water pretty close to ice? Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: especially over your whole body. Yeah, he stood, shaking his
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: head and frowning and puzzlement at the spot where she
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: had stood a long stride from where he had been sitting. Right.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: He's like, how the hell did this tiny girl reach
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: over a long stride, grab my sword and get back
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: into position in the fraction of a second he took
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: to turn around and grab the sword. He's he doesn't
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: add up to him at this point.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's too short for that, Like, literally, that's
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: the length of her body's worth of distance. That makes
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: no sense.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: It's like she couldn't have moved that fast.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: There's no way unless she's got magic. She'll figure out
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: in a couple of hours.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: So he builds her up a fire and like apologizes
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: for well does he apologize?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: No, he just offers to make it better. Right, He
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: hangs up the blankets to give her a privacy screen
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: and makes the fire. He won't apologize. What does he.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Try separating a man from his sword, My.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Lady, hardly an apology.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Hey, youah fucked up. You shouldn't do that. It's not
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: an apology.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: She reads the lowering of eyes and the lack of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: anger as humility. And shyness. It's not humility or shyness.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: It's deference and distance and respect, like the wary kind
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: of respect. It's not difference, it's it's distance. It's just distance.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: She's also soaked through.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Well, he won't me a woman's eyes, period. We've seen
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: that repeatedly. He just won't meet a woman's eyes, much
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: less a woman who's you know, soaking wet.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Right, probably outlining everything.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's wearing pretty heavy clothes because it is cold,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: but right, right, right. She had never heard of a
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: shy dark friend, although she supposed there could be some. Okay,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: let's just not stereotype people's personality traits is making them
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: more or less likely to be dark friends.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: I've never heard of a horny dark friend. I don't know.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: I just doesn't.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: Dark friends are not like a well lonner stood phenomenon
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: like you don't know, there's not a tax on exactly.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Fouji Pater is a very shy, weird, not confident dark
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: friend like silly Morain.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: And yet deep enough in the shadow that the Dagger
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: called out to his soul, which only the most corrupt
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: of dark friends would sense.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was really close to the dagger physically,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: he was very close to it.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: We we just get the statement later that only the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: only dark friends whose souls are truly in the shadow
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: consents the dagger.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: He was still shy despite that. Being a bad guy
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: didn't give him confidence.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, I'm not saying he wasn't shy. I'm just
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: saying I think he was a real bad dude, right
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: like he was. Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When Reese comes back, he comments on how Moraine's
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: clothing must have been so wet that it made show
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: up every curve, and Land immediately goes full, I'm gonna
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: kill you be respectful to women, which is just like, okay,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: chill out. We don't need to be that extreme. Dude
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: was making a joke. You don't need to kill your
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: best friend over this woman who tried to take your
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: sword because he made one off color joke. Like, let's
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: just try to be reasonable.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: I think what it's showing, though, is that Rain no
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: longer shares the morals of a malchier man. He doesn't abide.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: By that field anymore.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I agree. It's a stuffy attitude, but
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: he has changed his ways. He is no longer the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: honorable Malkier, I think is what it's trying to show.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Who would divert his eyes away from a changing woman?
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know he's making off color jokes instead, and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, I will literally kill you.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I've worked in enough kitchens. You know
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: the difference between someone who's trying to be respectful and
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: someone who's not. You know, with the comments, and there
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: can be jokes made that are respectful, and there are
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: jokes that are made that are not, and the line
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: is thin.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: But when everyone's holding knives, people are ready to stab
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: a bitch. I guess that's Helena is anyway. And yeah,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Morain on the basis of half remembering a Wikipedia entry
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: that she read one time here says I'm a woman
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: in distress. You have to protect me. Help And because
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the Malchiri are weird men Bookamma and Land are like, fine,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: we will literally promise to you. You have no choice,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: you know, to have our lives matter less than yours
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: a random woman who we don't know and who might
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: be trying to kill us for all we know. Sure,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: no problem, Our honor is our word. Very weird.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: They do make a point of having Rain and Land
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: do a little contest after they challenge each other over
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: mo Rain and Rain kicks Land's But that.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Is such an interesting little off scene, off to the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: side scene.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: And that makes me go like, is Land just not
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: as good as he ends up being later? Is Rain
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: just that good?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: I am inclined to think that Rain is kind of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: like a parallel to Alida for Land, someone whose skill
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: and power drives him to do better than he's ever
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: had to before, just to survive, not necessarily just here,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: but also in the fight that they have later where
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Land kills him. I think he is that good. I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: think he does genuinely give Land a run for his money,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and Land being able to survive that is him forcibly
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: leveling up. I think that he does get better at
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: his swords skills because of the need to keep up
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: with Rain and ultimately kill him. Dude's really good with
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: the sword, and.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: I kind of assume that Land continues to improve as
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: a swordsman over the next twenty years of traveling with Moraines.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: For sure. For sure, and he's good enough to survive
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: a warwith a Yell already, but he's still got much
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: growing to do.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: And then Moraine gives them money.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, half remembered Wikipedia entry from like three
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: years ago. Oh my, don't pay them for their honor,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: you need mad.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Right, just how offensive that is. And like I think
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: from his point of view later, Land's like, I don't
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: know why she kept insulting deliberately. It seemed really ridiculous,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: and just like insult after insult after insult after insult
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: when you actually look at like what her actions are
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: and how little and how uncultured she is, even for
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: someone who supposedly grew up, you know, studying other cultures
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: in other countries, and then in the White Tower.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: And Or and kyrie In and Tarvalan all kind of
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: have like European colonial mindset of we are bringing civilization
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: to you uncultured savages everywhere they.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Go, because it's England in France.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and Rome yeah, and Harvard or Oxford whatever one
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: of the firds.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: But I mean tarbol is definitely Rome, yeah or Oxford,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: depends on how you get.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: The Ivory Tower aspect, which is all of academia, right,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: so pick your institution of snobbery. But yeah, it's very much.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: We know that other cultures exist, but we don't really
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: think that their culture is valid or worth learning about
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: beyond like hello, no abla Espanol, you know. So, yeah,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: she's very uncultured. She will get much better over the
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: next twenty years. And I assume that there are some
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: funny instances over the next twenty years where Land has
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: to teach her, like how to use chopsticks or why
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: you don't eat the tops of the red peppers, you know,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Like, I'm assuming there's instances where Land helps
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: her get a little more worldly that are fun and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: just fun over the course of their twenty years together.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Can't all be serious battles, you know, some of it
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: has to be like here's how you actually slurp noodles
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: for real zoos though.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: But I imagine they do a little bit of that together,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: because I mean's he's somewhall worldly, but he has also
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: been very focused. He's also I guess he's quite a
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: bit older than she is at this point.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, how much older is he than her?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: He's like thirty.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Or is he that much older? Aren't they about the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: same age?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Isn't he is he in his twenties at this point?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's older than ninety eve, right, But yeah, yeah,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: I remember I said Moraine is about forty five at
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the series, and he's like and he's
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: like in his mid forties to late forties. He might
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: be a year or two older than her, but I
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: think he's about the same age. I can't imagine he's
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: much more cultured.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: So maybe actually more of those bonding moments are them
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: making cultural faux pause together and like learning how to
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: do stuff together, and like covering up for each other's
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: mistakes and like having like fun little moments like that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: on the road.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: This land that we meet is a much more repressed,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: much more hide bound, much more culturally inflexible land. The
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: other land point does a better job around, you know,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: adapting to the other cultures. This one he's offended by
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: people who don't follow the Malchire way, whereas later it's like, yeah,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: they're not Malchiere whatever, you know. So I do feel
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: like they both have a lot of growth and show them.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I was reading a little article that said,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: you know, why does land have is so much closer
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: to his final form, and I'm like, I don't think
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: he is, like his confidence around his lover that like
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: he like does what she says in a way that like,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I don't imagine modern Land would ever be taken in
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: like that and forced to do those sorts of things,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: no matter how culturally well.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: He does burn the hair that binds him to the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: woman at the end of the book. In fairness, he
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: makes that choice as part of the growth of this book.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's easier for me to forget that
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Lana is not in his final form than with Moraine.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: It's easier to just yet assume he's got way more
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: experience than he does. Where'st with Marine is really obvious?
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: It is, Here's just because we're in her head more.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: And I think also he has been out in the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: real world longer, even if he you know, it's the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: ever seeing someone who starts working when they're eighteen and
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: someone who goes to college and now they're both twenty two.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he's got four years of experience under his belt,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: which is a little bit more, but he's still, you know,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: a baby when it comes to, you know, working in
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: the real world. He's on his second job, right, you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: she's on her first, right.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, totally, And yeah, last thing I've got
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: is the pond encounter, Yeah, which is just to heat.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she gets tossed in and then she dumps it
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: on his head.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fall up to the pond encounter, I should say.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: So she's waking up every time they change shifts because
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: she wants to keep an eye on them, And when
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Land says i'd sooner trust in eyes to die, she snaps.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: Her temper that she's been holding down completely snaps, and
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: she uses the power to pick up a fire hose
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: of water out of the pond and blast it at
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Land for ten seconds before letting it go completely, throwing
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: fish and pond weed and everything over all. The men.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: They freak out, and she says, bitch, how daring.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Well and the fact that he doesn't get knocked over
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: by that torrent of water talks about his strength and resilience,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: like yeah, bothers the fuck out of her, but also
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: like that's badass, Like water knocks you over. Water is
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: heavy and powerful, and the case the immovable force that
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: is Land that can stand against a wave, like that's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: what makes him. It's almost like a little test to
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: see if he would be a good worder. I feel
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: like in her mind she's already testing him she doesn't
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: realize it yet.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: The contest of Will's has begun.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it has. He threw her in a pond
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: and that has gotten up her put a bug up
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: her butt.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she threw the pond at him.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and now she's gonna put a bunch of bugs
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: up his butt.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There was. When I was in Iketo, we would
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: practice sort of the mental headspace of being a heavy
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: rock versus being able to be easily pushed over. It's
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: definitely really matters with martial arts, like how you've organized
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: your brain and not even stance, but like literally like
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: your headspace. You can be more or less easily disturbed
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: based on how you arrange what's going on in your head,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: and your body sort of falls out from that. And this,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: to me is an example of Land has got that
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: even in the midst of this really intense like yeah,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: you can really breathe, right, you're getting hit with all
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: that water pouring down, and he just doesn't let it
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: disturb him and knock him over.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: He just.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Is calm. He just has his center of gravity and
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: ice and low and he's doing his breathing, his oneness.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: And yeah, she looks at that. She says, I am
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: going to disturb you. I am going to find a
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: way to disturb your equilibrium. And yeah, the only reason
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: she would want to do that is if she's interested
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: in having his solidity at her side.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It's not exactly an enemy's the lovers, but it's
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: definitely a I'm gonna poke at you until a good
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: enough Yeah, enemy's allies or annoyances to allies, you.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: Know, antagonists allies might be the real way to look that.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: So like, ah, she really pisses me off, I can't
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: stop thinking about her, Okay, you know, like that means
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: something if you really can't stop thinking about her.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, Like you have a strong reaction to them,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: and that's what counts. And like, I love how they
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: never have a romantic aspect to it. It's entirely platonic,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: but it's so intense. It's just as intense as any
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: romantic relationship. It just has no chemistry towards romance. But
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: this kind of yeah, will they won't they contest of
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: Will's I can't stand you, I hate you is like
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: that's a good basis for a long lasting bond.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Well, and think about like, yes, it's not romantic, but
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: it is a lifetime bond, and so it has a
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: lot of the sort of similar aspects to it.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: In sickness and in health. Yeah, until death do us part? Right,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: poverty and wealthy. They are stuck with the consequences of
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: each other's actions, with the dangers, the assassins.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And when I go back and look at like Robert
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Jordan's relationship with Harriet right, she was his editor. They
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: had this working relationship together that was on top of
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: the romantic one, you know, and I can see them,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: you know, so him sort of separating those two relationships
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: out totally.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: So yeah, with that, I'm ready to do a readout
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: unless you've got anything else on this.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, just the only thing that when when she talks
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: to Rain about chan Chin, she asks him why he's going,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: and he says, every man has to die.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Somewhere ominous and cryptic.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think he was told something like what is
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: the deal with going to Chanchin and him? Because he
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: does die in Chonchin?
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, well, we know he was talking to and
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I is to die. Who I'm postulating was Mihren on
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: Black Aja business. We know that Miharn is going there
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: to kill the king and his son, and we know
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: that Rain will be put on killing Lan both in
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the case both because of luck. Right, Rain might be
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: knowing that, like, I am going to have to try
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: to kill Lan and that is going to be really, really,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: really hard. I don't know if he knows he's going
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: to have to kill yet, but I think he knows
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: he's being pointed at a succession of assassination missions that
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: will ultimately leave him dead.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, I kind of imagine it's just like, yeah,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: we're gonna go kill a king. That's that's risky as fuck.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does he's not? Is he involved in the assassination
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: of the king, because I know Mier is the one
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: that like does it, but does is Rain helping her
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: with things? So I think So, I think that Land
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: and Marine kind of both arrive on scene because they're
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: both tracking the other.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, he knows he's going to kill a king,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: and it's very hard to get away with killing a
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: king and a prince and not end up dead at
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the end of it. No one else made a sound
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: except for Boukama's grumbles as he shifted his bed away
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: from the mud. Rain spent a long time, moving his
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: blankets in silence, giving her small bows whenever she glanced
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: his way. Land made no attempt to dry off. He
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: started to choose a new spot for his watch, then
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: stopped and sat back where he had been in the
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: mud and water. She might have thought it a gesture
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: of humility, only he glanced at her, very nearly meeting
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: her eyes this time. If that was humility, kings were
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: the most humble men on earth. Spoiler alert, he is
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: a king. She wove her words around them again, of course,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: if anything, revealing herself only made it more necessary. She
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: did not go to sleep for quite a while, though.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: She had a great deal to think about. For one thing,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: none of the men had asked why she was following them.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: The man had been on his feet when she drifted off.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: She was thinking of Rain strangely, a pity if he
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: was afraid of her, now a great pity if he
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: turned out to be a dark friend. He was charming
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: and quite pretty. Really, she did not mind a man
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: wanting to see her unclothed, only his telling others about it.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: She's a horny bisexual.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Do you think Rain thinks she might be black? Aja?
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: I mean men like him. Are not going to know
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: the all of the Black Aja Ray. They're only going
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: to know them when they reveal themselves. So yeah, Annie
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Eye is to die. Who's near him to be wondering
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: if she's going to give him the little hand signal.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: At some point, Boo Kama and Lande both think that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: she is related to Land's Karnaira sending like a sexy
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: assassin after him. Rain goes along with that theory, But yeah,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: I suspect that his issues with her are more issue
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Blackgja and will she be demanding conflicting things from making
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: in contrast to the orders I've already been given.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I have a lot more to
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: say about that other than Land and Marine. The first
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: pairing of our whole story starts now, because I don't
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: think anybody else has met anybody else. I guess Ninive
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: is technically a baby.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Niniva is alive. Rand has obviously, you know, been
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: adopted at this point, so you know that's happening, which
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: means that Matt and Paren have both been born. Right.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: If Rand is alive and adopted, then Matt and Paren
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: are both little baby.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Within a few weeks, they might be like, you know,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: three months, so yeah.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're babies at this point. Agwayne hasn't been
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: born yet because she's two years younger. Ye, but yeah,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: Nainiva is old enough to have, you know, occasionally be
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: in charge of watching the infants while a parent gets
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: you know, a quick napp or runs off to the
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: bathroom right right, because she's you know, six or whatever.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: It's old enough to watch infants for twenty minutes. Maybe
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: it often is, whether or not you think it's appropriated. Yeah,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: little kids being put in charge of other little kids
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: for a quick minute is definitely a thing. But yeah,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: no one has met in a significant way that has
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: plot relevance because they're all too young, aside from yeah,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Lann and Moraine, who have met via a pond. Loraine
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: has been thrown in a pond. She has thrown the
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: pond back at land and we're off to the races
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: with their antagonists to allies ARC and yeah with that, surely,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: as peaches are poisoned, we are done.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: Surely as peaches are poison.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: By done, I mean we're gonna take a break and
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: then record another podcast.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, because peaches are not poisoned, even in Wheel of
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: time peaches are not poison, They just are thought to be.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: As it turns out, ye, so yeah.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:21:58
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• 1:22:01
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• 1:22:05
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• 1:22:08
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• 1:22:12
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