Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of The Intelligent Home | Yves Behar | S8 E7

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Future of The Intelligent Home | Yves Behar | S8 E7 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:22:06 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Future of XYZ. Joining us today is a man who needs very little into introduction. To those of you who are designers watching and listening, Yves Behar, welcome to Future of XYZ. 00:00:22:08 - 00:00:24:14 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me, Lisa. 00:00:24:16 - 00:00:58:09 Speaker 1 Well, it's quite an honor. I have to say, you are one of the kind of leading voices I would argue, in design in the world. the founder and CEO of your own design agency based in Lisbon and mostly in San Francisco, called Fuse Project, which you launched in 1999. subsequent to that, you have, is a design and innovation studio, I guess, but you guys have designed hundreds of projects for really big brands, as well as launched early stage ventures and startups across categories. 00:00:58:09 - 00:01:08:05 Speaker 1 And and today, we're going to be talking about the future of the intelligent home, which seems to be a growing category for you personally, as well as for Fuse project. 00:01:08:07 - 00:01:09:15 Speaker 2 Right. Thank you. 00:01:09:17 - 00:01:31:08 Speaker 1 Absolutely. let's dive in. I want to start, as we always do, Yves, which is defining the topic at hand. And in this case, we're talking, as I just mentioned, about the future of the intelligent home. So in the context of this conversation and your expertise, how do we define, an intelligent home? 00:01:31:10 - 00:02:02:18 Speaker 2 Well, I think that's a very good question. we have been working on home products that attempted or attempt to make, the home intelligent, probably since the late 2000s. In 2012, we launched, Auguste, Auguste Smart Block, which is door access to, you know, to to the smart home. It's you really have to start at the door in order for, for a home to be smart. 00:02:02:20 - 00:02:30:03 Speaker 2 and it was called the smart home then. And there was a lot of excitement, a lot of hope, different products, you know, around, home ventilation, security, heating and cooling, and, you know, connecting all of your appliances and, you know, 12, 13 years later, I'm looking at this space and I'm like, the home never got smart. 00:02:30:05 - 00:03:02:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. So. So we need to think of it differently. I think, the approach of a bunch of disparate products that, sort of appear on your walls, outdoors indoors, and that tried to connect to each other or give you control, you know, is was really the first step, but doesn't make for a compelling coordination of the home itself. 00:03:02:11 - 00:03:30:22 Speaker 2 And, so I'm we know we moved on from that. and we call it the intelligent home now. And the goal here is, you know, the way I see the intelligent home is that, you know, it needs to sort of disappear into the architecture, and it needs to get away from being device centric and shift towards being environment centric. 00:03:30:24 - 00:03:38:08 Speaker 2 and I think that is, a different approach which led us to start a company named Doma. 00:03:38:10 - 00:03:44:07 Speaker 1 Oh, interesting. And Doma launched just in December this last year, if I'm not mistaken. 00:03:44:09 - 00:04:14:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, we just launched. it's been a couple of months. and they're, you know, again, it's the August smart, you know, lock team. Smart home team. we sold the company in 2018. it's still the number one, door lock. you know, in the world, it's still, reference in terms of functionality. It still uses the same app, which is amazing because when you design something that works, I like to see it. 00:04:14:10 - 00:04:15:06 Speaker 2 stay around. 00:04:15:11 - 00:04:18:10 Speaker 1 Good for sustainability and user experience. 00:04:18:12 - 00:04:37:16 Speaker 2 Yes. but, you know, it is handling, you know, the door. and and it's, it's a door lock. And I feel like the technologies that we have today that are available to us today, really allow us to go a lot further. 00:04:37:18 - 00:04:58:03 Speaker 1 It's interesting. I want to come back to my, in a, in a in a minute. I want to kind of, like, backtrack, if you don't mind. Yves, you're an industrial designer by training and practice who studied at Art center, which is really, I mean, in the US, but globally, one of the most recognized design schools in Pasadena, California. 00:04:58:05 - 00:05:26:12 Speaker 1 but you're also an entrepreneur, you're an agency owner, you're a multi-time co-founder, and you do a lot of public speaking. how before we get into, like, intelligent home even further, like, I'd like to understand more about how you got into industrial design and what it means to you and like, kind of how this practice continues to evolve to the point that now you have just in December, launched this, like, amazing device connector for the intelligent home. 00:05:26:14 - 00:05:51:01 Speaker 2 Well, that's a that's a multi-pronged question. So I'll try to answer, in a, in a, in a, in a speedy way, I think. I think the two phases for me where at 15 years old, deciding to become a designer, that was the first phase. and the second one was emigrating to San Francisco and the Bay area. 00:05:51:03 - 00:06:15:06 Speaker 2 And those are the two sort of big triggers of how I got to where I am. And, you know, and if I go back to the first one, I'm 15 years old, there is not really good design schools in Switzerland at the time. My parents have no idea what an industrial designer is, and none of my friends either. 00:06:15:08 - 00:06:47:15 Speaker 2 and as I said, there is no no, really adjacent schooling. So, I start to make things and my parents basement. and it's also the punk era, which is incredibly open to people without knowledge, without craft or without apprenticeship, without, knowing anything about a certain trade to go and try it, whether it's music, whether it's fashion, whether, it's writing, whether it's design, you can just go and build it and make it. 00:06:47:17 - 00:07:07:21 Speaker 2 And so I feel, you know, lucky to have lived in an era where, trying things, building things, was, you know, was was, something you could do without, a lot of judgment, and without. 00:07:07:23 - 00:07:08:13 Speaker 1 Pressure. 00:07:08:13 - 00:07:30:23 Speaker 2 Even, you know, without pressure. And so I started making things at my parents basement, and eventually I, I go to school, I learn to draw. and then once, I'm done with school, that second phase is, I come to San Francisco in the Bay area after I graduated, graduating from Art center. And here I find a similar open mindedness. 00:07:30:23 - 00:08:02:14 Speaker 2 A lot of other immigrants like me, a lot of people starting things, less judgment all around what you're doing or what, you know. What are you starting? but more support in general for new ideas, and also less judgment about, you know, failure. And so, you know, those those two moments and the permission I feel I was given to, to try things to integrate into a different world. 00:08:02:16 - 00:08:30:16 Speaker 2 you know, from Europe, from my upbringing, bringing etc.. those were really sort of unique, times when I felt incredibly empowered, where I felt that I could, participate, I could insert my ideas and my opinions and my background and my experiences, in a way that, you know, is rare. I mean, this is rare in the world, right? 00:08:30:18 - 00:08:31:10 Speaker 2 and so. 00:08:31:13 - 00:08:32:07 Speaker 1 It's a privilege. 00:08:32:12 - 00:08:41:02 Speaker 2 Those are those are two moments, I guess, of, being in the right place in the right era and at the right time. 00:08:41:04 - 00:09:11:11 Speaker 1 I mean, it's, it's, as you say, it's it's a privilege and, of of a moment, you're, you've been known to say is that product, digital and brand design are cornerstones of any business. Obviously, you in your career have worked with huge brands from Herman Miller, GE, Puma, PayPal, SodaStream, L'Oreal, Nivea, Issey Miyake products, etc. and many others. 00:09:11:13 - 00:09:18:02 Speaker 1 what does that mean to you? That product, digital and brand design are cornerstones of the business. 00:09:18:04 - 00:09:44:01 Speaker 2 But what it meant to me personally is that I wanted to do it all. And I believe that, if you if you think through the strategy and the meaning and the purpose of of, what you're doing, what a what a company wants to build, what, you know, a set of engineers or scientists want to put out in the world, for example, in the case of startups. 00:09:44:03 - 00:10:14:17 Speaker 2 you you can think through it and in its entirety, you can create an ecosystem. And, you know, in the 90s, if you look at design, then, you know, companies have completely different approaches to their brand, to their marketing, to their industrial design, to the experience. It's completely siloed and, and disconnected from one another. And it creates a lot of friction and frustration. 00:10:14:19 - 00:10:41:15 Speaker 2 for consumers. And it also lacks good communication. of course, Apple comes in and shows you that, oh, well, the product and the experience and retail and and, you know, software and online and, you know, the business model, everything has to be sort of one. and so I decided 99 to start for this project around this notion of an integrated design approach Fuse. 00:10:41:15 - 00:11:15:19 Speaker 2 And, I realized that, some people claim they're doing it, but in reality, those offices also are very siloed. I used to work in some of them, and, and I really want to, have an approach that makes more sense, that cuts through, I think a lot of the noise and a lot of the distraction of having sort of multiple teams, well, with multiple opinions and multiple agendas, work on things. 00:11:15:21 - 00:11:41:02 Speaker 2 And, I guess I got lucky a few times. I'm able to build brands. I'm able to build products, I'm able to, work on the, on the graphic design as much as, the user experience as much as the product itself. and that really becomes sort of a second, round of, learnings for me, a second round of education for me. 00:11:41:04 - 00:12:14:11 Speaker 2 and you start doing this enough times. you start doing it, you know, nonstop for, for, for years and years after years. I think eventually, you know, it becomes clear that we can do it on our own. That meaning that we can become true partners to, again, scientists, entrepreneurs, technologists. And and we can build all of the external touchpoints of a brand, whether. 00:12:14:13 - 00:12:31:24 Speaker 1 It's pretty remarkable and I don't know if I'm extrapolating too far what Fuse project means, but fuzing this ecosystem across touchpoints seems, a logical conclusion. Or it could be the start of something. So, it might be a double entendre, I don't know. 00:12:32:01 - 00:12:58:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, both. Both meanings are there. initially I was saying that we wanted to Fuse different disciplines at the service of an idea. but what that means is it's really the idea that becomes the driver, the catalyst. and we never know where the big idea comes from. I mean, it can be sort of embedded in, and the notion of this new company or new product. 00:12:58:20 - 00:13:33:04 Speaker 2 but it can be, you know, that this sort of core starting point of, of how this ecosystem is built, can be about the experience, can be about the brand can be, about, the product itself can be about the tactility and, and letting that sort of come to the surface. And then all these different disciplines being at the service of this idea, to really amplify it, to communicate it as best as we can. 00:13:33:06 - 00:13:55:15 Speaker 2 is has been sort of the, the way that we, that we work and also the way that we are able to apply, this to many different fields, you know, from automotive to smart home, the intelligent home, consumer industrial, you know, medical and throughout. 00:13:55:17 - 00:14:29:14 Speaker 1 I feel like I just got a masterclass in, like, strategic branding. as as that's what I spent a lot of my career doing. And I wish that everyone agreed with you. so I'm excited. You one of the projects that you all worked on and you're credited with, with designing is the Samsung frame, which is not only a smart TV, but, I own it, and it allows there to be, like, really high pixel, high value art, on a digital screen in the home. 00:14:29:16 - 00:14:38:12 Speaker 1 would you consider that a product of the intelligent home? And was this kind of like in some ways your first foray or like, where does it fit? 00:14:38:17 - 00:15:06:15 Speaker 2 Well, I wouldn't say it was our first foray into the intelligent home because we, we've we worked on August and, you know, other, other types of, companies before. But I would say it it was it's the first sort of post black screen television, or media delivery, into the, into your home sense. I don't know, the 1940s. 00:15:06:17 - 00:15:40:15 Speaker 2 and you know, the, the beauty about working in fields that are, kind of so well established with, with with a partner like Samsung, is that, you know, they don't really need us to come in and slowly evolve their product line or, you know, iterate on what they already have. And so we can come in with some big, very naive, you know, childlike questions. 00:15:40:17 - 00:16:13:16 Speaker 2 and, and the first question, I mean, we we've had our relationship with Samsung for 15 years where we've worked with every CEO so we could ask these questions at, at a, at a high level and sound even more naive. with people who've worked in the field their entire lives. but I think, you know, the question for me was why does a screen have have to remain black and really become, a void, you know, a black void on your walls. 00:16:13:16 - 00:16:40:14 Speaker 2 And as people's homes are getting smaller, as people's taste come up more up to the surface. you know, and people want to express themselves. I was like, I don't understand why TVs are just sold on brightness and slimness, how thin they are. you know, I it's it it just felt like we needed to think of something completely different. 00:16:40:19 - 00:17:11:10 Speaker 2 And so this is a good example of a big idea because, you know, everybody, I mean, not everybody, but a lot of people struggle with hiding the TV, right? You have kids, even a black screen that's inanimate is a distraction because, you know, you think about what could be on their they think what could be on their and, so instead of hiding it in a cabinet or into the wall or the ceiling. 00:17:11:12 - 00:17:49:24 Speaker 2 the big idea was, what about if we hide it in plain sight? and then the notion of art came about, and I made an experiment, essentially, on one of our screens here in the office, and we went from a bright sort of entertainment, you know, based kind of visual video to a static piece of art and a smooth transition, where within that transition, the art would be dimmed as to not look like it's a backlit. 00:17:50:01 - 00:18:12:24 Speaker 2 And because backlit is a visual interruption as well. Right. And so the ambiance killer, and so I made that experiment and I was so excited about it, I was just like, wow, this is so cool. Like, we can hide TVs in plain sight. People will not even know you put it next to a painting or to a drawing or a photograph in a frame, and you can't even see the difference. 00:18:13:01 - 00:18:37:15 Speaker 2 I was so excited about it. I basically organized a call with the top management at Samsung and on zoom. I didn't even like. I mean, I used to go 4 or 5 times a year there, but I was I that couldn't wait. And I showed it to them and they were like, we don't really understand what you're doing, but you seem so excited about it. 00:18:37:17 - 00:19:08:23 Speaker 2 Let's keep moving. Let's let's move forward. because because the, the the plan for, an art based, television, didn't exist then. there. So, we continued and we eventually made sort of large prototypes and, and flew in and flew them to, to, to Seoul and presented them and, you know, the rest is history, but, you know, the, the. 00:19:09:00 - 00:19:33:04 Speaker 2 You know, I guess what I'm saying here is the big idea is important, but you also need great partners and, you know, great design work only happens when you have this melding of the minds. You have, people who open to each other's strange and naive and different points of views. 00:19:33:06 - 00:19:58:21 Speaker 1 it's so interesting. I love that they had that much confidence and trust in your enthusiasm, and I'm really glad you created it, because my house would not be the same as a small house without that. So thank you for that. let's go back to dormer quickly. so as you mentioned, it's the first is touted as kind of the first intelligent home platform that unifies the home without gadgets or clutter. 00:19:58:23 - 00:20:12:20 Speaker 1 representing a new chapter in the evolution of the home. One where intelligence is embedded directly into architecture rather than added as a collection of devices. Tell us more. 00:20:12:22 - 00:20:42:18 Speaker 2 Well, you know, we call these, you know, your video camera and your camera and your your, you know, I don't know all your your bright lights outside of your home. We stick all these things indoors and outdoors to provide us some kind of service. And I call them warts. I mean, they're just just black. They're, you know, stuck on, you know, products. 00:20:42:18 - 00:21:15:15 Speaker 2 And instead of being, you know, instead of instead of being a product you install, we really want to build a living system that you inhabit. And, you know, the focus is, is twofold. It's, safety and health. And when we really look at the macro trends going, you know, moving forward in the world, personal health, well-being is number one. 00:21:15:17 - 00:21:45:00 Speaker 2 There isn't a hotel or project being built that doesn't tout some type of, better living, you know, better health. so I'm interested in and, you know, and it's important to people, and I'm interested in bringing that to, you know, in a way that people can really, have sort of power over the decisions that they make every day. 00:21:45:02 - 00:22:12:23 Speaker 2 And for some of that to become automated. so that's what I would call an intelligent home, the one that manages safety features and health and well-being features in a way that it eventually just goes into the background and you can focus on living, you can focus on the relationships, you can focus on being present. you can, you know, and and and you feel great. 00:22:12:24 - 00:22:15:16 Speaker 2 So that's that's the ultimate goal. 00:22:15:18 - 00:22:36:06 Speaker 1 I love it, and I have to concur that I think well-being is, all the rage and design conversation right now. I actually, the day we're recording this just had a Fast Company article come out talking about design as a catalyst for well-being. So I'm completely on the same track. so I agree, but it's interesting to me when you think about like what? 00:22:36:06 - 00:23:03:22 Speaker 1 Beyond kind of, as you said, the integrated flow, you know, without these friction points, as you mentioned previously, it can be, part of your robotics. And I work again as a multi-disciplinary, cross-functional, designer, has included quite a bunch of robots. I mean, moxie is an emotionally intelligent robot for children. LAQ is an AI companion for the elderly. 00:23:04:03 - 00:23:16:21 Speaker 1 And then you have Maximo which is an AI driven robot that installs solar panels in half the time and therefore kind of at half the cost. What role do you see robots playing in the intelligent home? 00:23:16:23 - 00:23:19:03 Speaker 2 So we also have Snoo. 00:23:19:05 - 00:23:21:04 Speaker 1 oh. Right. Well known. 00:23:21:06 - 00:23:50:07 Speaker 2 You know, that, supports parents, and newborns. so, the question is, you know, do we want a physical humanoid robot to walk around and live amongst us? and I would say, yes, under certain conditions. do we need to tell the robot, hey, can you go lower the temperature or open the window for me? 00:23:50:09 - 00:24:20:09 Speaker 2 I don't think that's the robot that we're looking for. I don't think there is much value there. is it a robot that supports, aging in place? somebody somebody sort of living, you know, in their home in old age? Absolutely. Is that a robot within the health care, system? Absolutely. you know, is it is it a robot that helps with arduous, or, you know, complex tasks? 00:24:20:11 - 00:24:57:05 Speaker 2 yes, as well, but a robot, you know, just to sit around and, check on who is at your door. You know, as a security, car concierge, I don't really see the usefulness of that. And so I think embedding that kind of functionality into the walls and to the doors and to the windows, is, you know, is is is, you know, probably more intelligent than swallowing some somebodies, you know, around the house. 00:24:57:07 - 00:25:22:23 Speaker 2 so maybe I should explain a little bit how you know what Doma is. Yes. so, you know, Doma at the door, for example. not only lets you into your home, but also opens a door for you, and closes it behind you so you know for sure that it is closed. if somebody delivers a package, you have a 360 degree view of that activity. 00:25:22:23 - 00:25:54:05 Speaker 2 That's being delivered into your home. and we use six different ways to make sure the person coming into the home is, is is who it is. some of them are traditional, like the phone. but some of them are, really eye enhanced. So facial recognition, for example. we use, UWB the matter standard. 00:25:54:07 - 00:26:26:20 Speaker 2 and then there is also a keypad and a barcode, and a remote, you know, a remote app for example. and then on the interior we use millimeter wave radar because I'm a big believer in, privacy. So you actually don't see the person, but you have, you, you you have a sense of what's, that, you know, of of what somebody's moving around or what what they're doing in, for example, in case of, of delivery. 00:26:26:22 - 00:26:57:23 Speaker 2 there's no batteries. Everything is powered in. There is no visible, closure, for example, you know, robotic closure to open and close the door. Everything is handled within the hinges and within the frame, the door itself. so it's quite a different experience. It's quite, futuristic experience of the door. Kind of magical. and, you know, if your kids shows up at the door and they don't have a phone or a watch, it lets them in because it recognizes them. 00:26:58:00 - 00:27:22:13 Speaker 2 it does leave a little message on the outside. You can leave a cute little message for somebody, you know, who's showing up. So all this really increases awareness at the door, increases access because I can carry, you know, luggage, you know, children, if I'm, an elder or or handicapped, you know, obviously, this is very, a very practical feature. 00:27:22:15 - 00:27:51:10 Speaker 2 And then on the health side, by automating the by moderating the opening and closing of windows, we can balance out the air in your house, meaning, the AQI, indoor and outdoor, which is the, the level of pollution. often the air inside your home is, more stale or more polluted than outdoors, we can balance that out, or vice versa. 00:27:51:12 - 00:28:15:22 Speaker 2 we can balance out air and fresh air. we can balance out, for example, CO2 when you're sleeping, right? though, if you have more CO2, you will sleep better. so these are like small things that can happen in the background while still giving you awareness. Oh, all my windows are closed, right? You never really know whether you left a window open or not. 00:28:15:23 - 00:28:25:02 Speaker 2 Like, you know, we're we're all running around, you know, asking ourselves these questions. Well, I want to remove these types of, friction. 00:28:25:04 - 00:28:43:17 Speaker 1 thank you for talking through. I think everyone, myself included, even though I read the case study on the website, now has a better sense of this. I want to do because we're coming towards the end. I want to do, like, a rapid fire round, if you don't mind. And none of them are going to be rapid fire questions, just to give you a heads up. 00:28:43:17 - 00:29:05:05 Speaker 1 But we're going to do, as, as quick as you can. do you think that an intelligent home is the same as a few years ago? I know you said they never got smart, but like we used to call it IoT. Like the internet of things. All these connected devices. Is it the same or is it the next gen, or is it totally different? 00:29:05:07 - 00:29:33:21 Speaker 2 I think it's completely different from thinking about a device centric solution. rather than, architecturally or environmentally centric solution. is it using some of the same technologies? Yes. it can but I think the way to think of it, rather than putting the onus on the owners to connect all these devices and keep track of them and maintain them and make sure they're all still functioning. 00:29:33:23 - 00:29:44:19 Speaker 2 this is more part of the infrastructure of your home, than it is, a bunch of, as I said, warts that you're sticking up on your walls. 00:29:44:21 - 00:30:13:00 Speaker 1 I love that. Thank you for clarifying it. sustainability. I know you're like, you're you're into sustainability. I’m the global head of sustainability for iF Design, who presents this podcast. It's an important piece of things to me. I look at two aspects of this. One, a lot of these connections. Number one, draw energy. They require storage, you know, data, cloud storage kind of things. 00:30:13:02 - 00:30:34:10 Speaker 1 some eventually probably will require blockchain securities and things like this. All energy intensive, water intensive technologies. A is there a way to build intelligent home to be sustainable and then be on the other hand, there's this security that you just talked about and then wellness, which is like changing out air, which is all about like passive House, right? 00:30:34:10 - 00:30:47:08 Speaker 1 I mean, in or passive building. and things that are really, really good for humans and for the environment. So I see kind of the intelligent home having a risk and a reward. Where do you see it falling? 00:30:47:10 - 00:31:18:20 Speaker 2 Well, for us for for security reasons, for privacy reasons, we believe that, the intelligence side is within your home, meaning it is not sent to the, expensive servers. it is not processing huge amounts of data. it's it's it's it's much more our home base. one of the reasons for that is we want it to be, functioning for a really long time, regardless of, who the ownership of the company is and whatnot. 00:31:18:20 - 00:31:59:18 Speaker 2 And we also believe that privacy, people owning their own data is really important. But I think in general, you you, you raise, an absolutely valid point, which is no where should I be used? Because it is more efficient and, the right solution or where is it that that it's extraneous and incredibly wasteful? And to me, embedded AI, which is essentially the intelligence that goes into products again, in health and health care and, and, personal well-being, etc. is really the solution. 00:31:59:18 - 00:32:25:14 Speaker 2 And where AI is, very compelling as, as a technology, where I don't find it compelling, is actually in the way that we experience the product today as a question and answers, query, product, as a way to enhance our shopping or our, our social media. that is just more of the same. 00:32:25:20 - 00:32:33:22 Speaker 2 I mean, the incentives, the business model of these things is exactly the same, which is of search, subscription and advertising. 00:32:33:24 - 00:32:34:14 Speaker 1 100%. 00:32:34:19 - 00:33:00:19 Speaker 2 Which please get us out of that, you know, doom loop of, of, you know, distraction and social media. And, you know, I really feel AI companies, are going to convince us that these technologies are beneficial to humanity when we focus them on things that humans truly need, not things that humans can be exploited for, which is our attention. 00:33:01:21 - 00:33:33:07 Speaker 1 I mean, I, I'd like to, like mic drop right there. It's exactly right. couldn't couldn't couldn't agree more. Especially in 2026. we're seeing it all the time. okay. Last, last question before we move to the very final question, Yves. Fuse projects design philosophy is rooted in the belief that design accelerates the adoption of new ideas, shaping products and experiences that define categories and transform the way we live. 00:33:33:09 - 00:33:40:04 Speaker 1 How is the way we live being transformed as we speak? 00:33:40:06 - 00:34:16:15 Speaker 2 Well, I think there are very important ideas, some of which you brought and this 21st century sustainability inclusiveness. well-being, you know, mental, and physical well-being. you know, these are important ideas that people want to apply to their own existence. and what design does is that it accelerates its adoption, by making it, available, frictionless, maybe the right price point. 00:34:16:17 - 00:34:46:00 Speaker 2 you know, by making it palpable. I think so often we as as humans, you know, we want things. And we also believe that industry or businesses will never bring it to us. And I feel in so many ways we've given up on certain notions. Right. Sustainability. You know, I don't know. I mean, I see a lot less conversation about it these days. 00:34:46:02 - 00:35:16:24 Speaker 2 because it is not sort of easily, readily, available to us. but as designers, we can continue to press on these, you know, these important new technologies and materials and ways of experiencing, you know, the physical world around us. We can continue to push for that, to build it into, into the core of the companies that we we help and support. 00:35:17:05 - 00:35:51:01 Speaker 2 I mean, You know, there's there's a very important sort of stat, which is 80% of all sustainability decisions in a product are made at the point of conception, meaning at the end, very early stages of its conception. And if you don't have designers around the table speaking to it, pushing for it, making it palpable, you know, making it at the right price point, making it beautiful. 00:35:51:03 - 00:36:08:06 Speaker 2 But thinking through these notions, it, it just, you know, it never comes back. Meaning, you know, you've passed the time where that can be actually, built into the product or the business that you're launching completely. 00:36:08:08 - 00:36:36:01 Speaker 1 I mean, and it's and it's devastating. But I think it's one of the things that I'm very, bolstered by at the moment, in all the conversations with designers, there aren't many high end. And I say high end, meaning like, people like yourself, like acclaimed designers, people leading big companies who don't agree with that. Right? It's a matter of like making the business case to the business people who seem to not understand its inherent value and so, I, I f yeah, go ahead. 00:36:36:03 - 00:36:45:01 Speaker 2 I'll use the one example just because it's top of mind. It's happening all around me right now where we're designing, you know, the exterior and the interior of the Tello. 00:36:45:03 - 00:36:47:10 Speaker 1 Which you're a co-founder of as well. Tello trucks. 00:36:47:16 - 00:36:57:19 Speaker 2 Tello trucks. which is, which is a, mini pickup truck that has more capabilities, than the big, you know, the big monster trucks. 00:36:57:24 - 00:36:59:14 Speaker 1 But it's an EV. 00:36:59:16 - 00:37:25:23 Speaker 2 It's certainly is an EV. but, you know, the interior of a vehicle, we're pushing so hard to be using materials that, are healthy and that are, you know, that that, want to have all that, off gassing. Yeah. you know, the. Oh, man smell. You know, that smell that that that new car smell. Some people like it, but until you realize that it's the smell of cancer. 00:37:26:00 - 00:37:58:12 Speaker 2 So, you know, I, you know, I we're pushing through and through, whether it's textiles, whether it's the, the, the, the, the hard materials that are used, you know, to really have a mixture of materials that will have, you know, very low, off gassing. So the first I would say healthy interior. but, you know, that's not something that you can expect from mainstream in the industry today. 00:37:58:14 - 00:38:24:01 Speaker 2 And I want consumers to expect that. I want them to say it's possible that it's being done. You know, let's move forward with this type of solution. because, again, we're we're we we can vote with, our footsteps and we can vote with our money. And, we need to show the way as designers. 00:38:24:03 - 00:38:49:23 Speaker 1 So here, here, here. And I will just make a shout out to iF Design award, where we two years ago embedded sustainability into the primary jurying criteria across all nine disciplines and 93 categories. It's now 20% of the score equivalent to the other four criteria. So I'm always extremely proud of that decision because, we agree that sustainability needs to be embedded, not, secondary. 00:38:50:00 - 00:39:08:14 Speaker 1 Last question, Yves, always the the fun one. What is your greatest hope for the future of the intelligent home in, let's say, 25 years, which puts us roughly in 2050, 2051? 00:39:08:16 - 00:39:38:08 Speaker 2 I mean, look, my greatest hope is to be, you know, surrounded by family and friends and and even grandchildren. but what does that mean? That means that we're present, that we're together or we're not kind of running to our cars or the phones, you know, with phones in our hands, or we're not, distracted by technology or screens, that are happening throughout. 00:39:38:10 - 00:40:17:11 Speaker 2 And so, you know, for me, the greatest gift, that's hopefully, you know, the right technology can deliver is a sense of belonging and a sense of being together and a sense of presence. that's why I believe that things should continue to disappear, into the infrastructure of, of the home. So my, you know, my greatest hope is that, you know, we live closer together than ever and certainly closer together than we did today. 00:40:17:13 - 00:40:40:10 Speaker 1 Yves Behar, thank you so much for being on Future of XYZ. You were named one of Time magazine's top 25 visionaries. I think Forbes called you the most influential industrial designer in the world. Your work is in all sorts of museums, including MoMA and SFMoMA. it's just like such an immense privilege to have had you on Future of XYZ. 00:40:40:11 - 00:40:44:23 Speaker 1 Besides the fact that Fuse Projects has won a lot of iF Design awards. 00:40:45:00 - 00:40:48:10 Speaker 2 Well, thank you for both. Lisa. 00:40:48:12 - 00:41:12:03 Speaker 1 for everyone watching and listening. you can check out Fuse project at Fuseproject.com. You can also follow Future of XYZ anywhere you get your favorite podcast and on YouTube, as well as on social media, especially Instagram and LinkedIn. We thank you for tuning in to the intelligent home. And again, Yves, thank you and we will speak to you soon. 00:41:12:05 - 00:41:13:16 Speaker 2 Thank you.