Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / See it, Believe it, Be it – A Financial Planners Guide to Achieving Career Goals

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See it, Believe it, Be it – A Financial Planners Guide to Achieving Career Goals · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And this week I'm joined by Bethany Lawton, Chartered Financial Planner at AV Trinity.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we talk about pushing through adversity.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about how to keep being your own champion and striving for your own personal success.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we just discussed the exam journey and not all the highs.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about the lows and how to push through them so you can be successful and like Bethany, who has the highest accolades you can have within the profession.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about being a younger age-profile financial advisor, how we can champion more young people into the industry and strive for the success of those within your team.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, Beth, it's lovely to have you with us today.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the first question that I start with all of my guests.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about your career journey today and how you got to the point you're at now?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I left school in 2010.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't want to go to university, which at the time was quite an unpopular decision.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I went to a grammar school.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you weren't going to university, you were one of the very, very few.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much expected that you should go.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really big thing for me at that time not to go.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so that's why I didn't want to go to uni.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I fell into an administration job, um, which was IT software.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: To this day, I still don't know really what the company did, if I'm honest, because I was literally doing the administration for it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how I joined the industry was we used to work in a within a really, really big building, and I'm quite chatty by nature.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we shared a kitchen, and essentially one day somebody came up to me and said, Would you like a job in financial services?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to become a power planner?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh my god, I've never heard of a power planner before.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this was back in 2013, and so actually, power planners were very, very new at that time.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I went away, did a bit of research about what a power planner was, and thought, you know what, despite the fact I don't necessarily know what I want to do, there's no harm in giving me giving this a go.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I went into the job, and really the rest is history from there.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I started being an administrator there because I worked in a one-man band.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there really was just four of us.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there was the advisor, the power planner, an insurance administrator, and then there was me.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Very quickly, because I was enjoying learning so much.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I very much got into the power planning side and I was somewhat shadowy in the power planner there.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I decided that really that is what I loved.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I thrived in it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So started doing exams.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously carried on being a power planner, despite the fact I was never actually called a power planner, because when you work in a one-man band, you could be doing the role of a power planner, but actually you're not really given that title.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So carried on doing that until eventually I became a trainee financial planner in 2019, it was fully signed off October 2020, and I've been an advisor ever since.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think it's really funny as well, going back to the very beginning there, what you were saying about, you know, going to a grammar school, coming from a very academic background.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think in those settings there is naturally a lot of pressure that the next step is university.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you've come from a position where you took your own route and you built a really successful career in your own right.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because how long did you say that you've been in financial planning?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Was it 10 years per se now?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's two, yeah, 2013, which is actually mental when you think about it, because I saw I remember that day so vividly him approaching me in the kitchen.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and don't get me wrong, there's been a lot of hoops I've had to jump through, there's been a lot of exams that I've had to jump through, but it really does feel like yesterday.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's 10 years.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, and and the career is the the profession has changed so much from then, even when you're saying then like power planning.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think lots of people outside the industry still don't have a full understanding of what a power planning is, power planner is, but that's fully a profession in its own right, you know, 10 years later.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that you mentioned then, you know, you've had to jump through a lot of hoops, you've had to have to go through lots of exams.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can you sort of explain to us a little bit in terms of like what your exam journey was like?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the exam exam journey is a difficult one.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I really can't dress it up.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, particularly being completely fresh to the industry.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when I first joined the industry, I knew what an ICE was because I had an ICE.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that a pension would pay you an income in retirement, and I genuinely knew nothing further than that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I somewhat joined that day, and it was like a foreign language was being spoken everywhere.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there were abbreviations for everything, and I was thinking, oh my god, and I was always making notes.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So starting the exam situation was tough because obviously I literally came from nowhere.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the first exam that I had to sit was the R01, which is regulations and ethics, and that is very difficult because it is the FCA and all um bodies like that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, when you have no real idea what any of these products are, you're then not going to know what the bodies are that they're going to be looking after them.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very difficult.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I struggled at first because I I first took my R01 and I failed my first exam.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, what my boss had done is he'd given me a book.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't ever blame him for this.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: We were a one-man band, but there was no help, there was no resources.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much here's the book, and off you go.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I totally get that because when you've got a young person that comes into the industry, you've never had that before.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: You've never had somebody with, I suppose, with that ambition before to want to move on.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he probably didn't know how to help me.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I came out of that exam and I'd failed it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I didn't know that I had to use past papers or anything like that, which is number one tip if anyone's listening to this, past papers are key.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember just crying in a bus stop thinking, oh, this is so unfair, you know.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I tried so hard, I'd rewritten that book three odd times, and I really did sulk for a couple of weeks.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just put that book away and I thought, no, that's it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's it's too much for me.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: When I got my results back a couple of weeks later, so you you were told there and then that you failed, it's a multiple choice test, but a couple of weeks later, I then found out that I'd only failed by five marks.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was at that point that I was like, get yourself back up, girl.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is ridiculous.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I just had that fire in my belly after that point.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I knew what I'd seen, I knew what I was going to be up against, I knew the type of questions that there was going to be.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never seen it in that format before.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing studying it, it's another thing seeing the questions.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then after that, I really did hit all of my exams in exactly the same volition.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I then had that exam technique.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I needed the practice test, I knew that I needed all of that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in total, I've done about 18 exams because I'm chartered and fellow now, um, which is ultimately the highest accreditation that you can get from the CII.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, yeah, that was about 18 exams.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in total it took me about six years, six and a half years.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot of work, but it's so worthwhile.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, chartered fellow in six and a half years, that is so impressive.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, you go back to your first exam then when you're sat at the bus stop, and I fully appreciate that you put in so much effort and so much hard work to be in a position to take it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it doesn't go your way, it really is devastating.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But as I said, like, you know, six and a half years now later, you're chartered fellow.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes to show that with the right attitude, the hard work, the determination, you can get the highest accolade that you can in the profession.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess there might be people in the audience that are listening to this who are like you were six and a half years ago, you know, just the beginning of their exam journey, finding it difficult, might have failed one exam, might have failed a couple, and really been struggling to pick themselves and brush themselves off.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know you mentioned like exam past papers and stuff like that, but you know, coming from someone, as we mentioned, that's got, you know, the highest accolade you can now, what would be your tips and tricks tricks to anyone listening?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you could go back and speak to yourself, you know, in that position.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: If I could go back and speak to myself, I would have, I would have actually given myself a lot more credit for actually picking up the guts to actually even sit that exam that day.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because first things first, anybody joining this industry is an incredible profession and you are training something, you are training for something that is incredible.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you are even trying to sit these exams, you need to give yourself a big pat on the back for that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: If that exam hasn't gone your way, I think learn where you went wrong.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I knew the second that I sat in that exam that day, because I've done practice questions that they did on revision mate.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So CII has something called revision mate, and it ultimately will give you a few questions.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very simple like what's the maximum that you could put into a pension or something like that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: When I then got into the exam, they actually gave me people.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this person earned this, this person earned that.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: What was the maximum they could put in?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the way that the questions were was just so different.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say to people, try to identify where you went wrong.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I knew straight away that it was the way that the questions had been written through me, and I was like the horse that bolted.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I would say, which is something that my first boss taught me actually, always trust your gut.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because nine times out of ten, you will, particularly in these multiple choice, you will be drawn to one answer.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And nine times out of ten, you'll then change it because you'll start to doubt yourself.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would always stick with your gut, but I would say just keep going.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is difficult, and these exams are hard.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But genuinely, I remember that day thinking, because you know what it's like, you'll feel sorry for yourself, I'd failed an exam, the world was ending.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, maybe I'm just not good enough for this.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, you are, because with enough hard work, determination, and drive, you will always get there, but you've got to put the work in and you've got to put the hours in, but just don't give up.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say pass papers and go with your gut.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's some great advice.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think obviously you did the level four diploma, which is like industry standard, what you need to be a financial advisor.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: But what then made you progress to take your chartered exam as what wanted you to keep studying further?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So every job that I had been in wasn't a chartered firm.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I joined AV Trinity, which is a company that I'm in now in 2017, and I was one exam away from becoming diploma.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I literally, I think I joined there in the February and I took my diploma exam in April.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, as I say, a chartered firm.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of the advisors there at the time were aspiring to become chartered, they will sit in the exams.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my boss at the time pulled me into a meeting and he said, once I pass the exam, he said, Well, that's great, Beth, but what's next?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What do you mean what's next?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've just spent three years of my life wedded to a book sort of thing.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, no, look, if you want to become chartered, I can draw you up a sort of plan as to the way that you should get there that will actually expose you to all avenues of financial advice because ultimately to get chartered, you need a certain amount of credit.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: The way that my plan was tailored was that I was going to be exposed to equity release advice, I was going to be exposed to long-term term care advice.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually, I was getting the most pertinent credits because I was sitting the most pertinent exams.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, it was literally what he said that day, what's next?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember embarking on, you know, if I thought that the diploma was bad, I remember embarking on the advanced diploma with so much trepidation because the other people at my company that were sitting these exams at the same time as me had been financial advisors for years, they were about 15 years older than me.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, you know, that self-doubt starts to creep in, doesn't it?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you look and you just think, well, hold on a minute, they've got so much more experience than me, this girl that's just gotten her diploma.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I always went in there with a massive fire in my bed because I felt like I had a point to prove.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily to anybody else, but I was sort of like, you doubt that you can do it, but you're like, no, I'm gonna keep working.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: This has worked before, exam technique, past papers, let's go, let's give it a crack.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so about three years after becoming diploma, I then got chartered and fellow.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But those exams were difficult, and the self-doubt does creep in.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes you've just got to rise above that and just say, I remember my boss once said to me, I don't know why you're so nervous, it's not like you're gonna walk in there and die.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's a really good point.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, isn't it?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because realistically, the worst that is ever going to happen is that you are gonna fail it and you've got to do it again.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't matter as long as you've tried it and you just keep going until you get the result you want.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's such a funny point, then that you mentioned then, like, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: The worst thing that happens is you fail and you have to do it again.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is like a it's a really obvious point, but I think we forget that we can have so much doubt and build these situations into something almost so much bigger than it is that you almost have to like bring it back down a little bit and remember that, like, you know, the worst thing that happens if you fail it, you're not gonna go in there and die.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I say this very often to like the people on my team.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm there like, we're fortunate enough that we have jobs which add a lot of value and are in their right of super important, but you're not in a situation where the worst case scenario is really that detrimental.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is you have to get up, brush yourself off and keep going.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we've touched on then, and you've touched on then um a lot, Beth, in terms of, you know, that self-doubt creeping in and you know, pushing that down, the hard work, the determination that goes with it.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's no doubt that, you know, big getting your level four diploma or becoming chartered requires a certain amount of knowledge because you're building on your technical skills.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think to get those accreditations, it also is a lot about mindset and you know, being able to be structured and organized and all those things?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, definitely, because my work always called me a machine because I had such a plan in my head of okay, this is this exam, then after this exam, it's this exam, then after that, it's this.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I had such a well-oiled machine going, I never stopped.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: No sooner did I come out of one, I went into the other.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I'm not saying never have a break, but I think don't take the foot off the gas.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Whilst you're in that real mindset momentum, you know, it was hard.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Leaving school in 2010 and sitting my A levels, and then three years later having to put my head in a book, that was daunting enough in itself.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you give yourself months off of sitting these exams, you could easily lose the momentum.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it is mindset, and I think every time you would sit an exam and you would pass it, you would get a buzz, which is great.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: The first time that I passed the AF5, so that was the first advanced paper that I did, it gave me the confidence that I would then be able to sit and pass them.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's not to say that every single exam I then went into, I wasn't thinking, yeah, but you probably got lucky that that time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: That sort of thing always creeps into your mind, but you do somewhat have to squash it, I think, and just think, no, don't be ridiculous.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to work extra hard at this one and you will be fine.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's absolute mindset, isn't it?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's positive mental attitude, I think.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so easy to let negativity creep in.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: But that's why I say, you know, anyone that is sitting in these exams, literally good for you because these are hard exams.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you have turned up, you've made an effort to study, you're trying, you need to give yourself a pat on the back for that, regardless of the outcome of it, in my opinion.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I completely agree.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a really big striver in work life and in my personal life, that we've got to celebrate the little wins, even the little wins, you've got to grab them with both hands and you know, and celebrate them.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, the fact that you've even signing up to do it and you've got the confidence and you're gonna work hard to do that is a little win in itself because there'll be lots of people, you know, that that don't for do further examinations.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, financial planning is w one of the professions where you do have to keep building on things on an examination where in other careers you don't necessarily have to do that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that you want to, you know, do uh an RO exam or you want to do your AF5 and you're gonna work hard towards it is a big win in itself.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So grasp that with both hands.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've spoken then a lot about your exam journey um and ultimately how you know part of your success with that has been um mindset and your attitude towards it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that in itself is a great nugget of wisdom to people in the audience listening to this that you might doubt yourself, but if you've got the right plan in place, you know, the right ethic, you dedicate your time to it, I'm sure you're gonna be successful.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but your attitude has also helped you in other areas of your career today.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we've spoken about previously how you know you're really settled at A V Trinity now.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been sort of like your home, but prior to then you had to sort of, I guess, go through a bit of adversity to get to the point that you are now.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to elaborate on that in a little bit more detail for us?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my first company that I work for, as I said, it was a one-man band and it was a brilliant place to get my claws in.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think ultimately my ambitions, I wanted to be seen as a power planner there effectively.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he wouldn't, he wouldn't allow it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at the time my age hampered me a little bit because I was 23, perhaps, no, 21 when I joined his company.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that my age hampered that a little bit.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew that I was doing the role of a power planner, but I didn't have an exam, as what we've said.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've sat in a bus stop crying, didn't have my exam yet.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think my age didn't help, and I just wasn't able to be seen as a power.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, obviously I didn't get the salary that went along with a power planner.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember there were so many times that I thought this is ridiculous.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could go and work in a call center and earn more money.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I'm knocking being in a call centre, but you feel like you're you're right at the beginning of your career and you could actually go and do many other jobs and you would actually be getting paid a higher salary.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at that time, you know, that's a real pivotal time of your life.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd been with my partner at that point for three, four years.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: We were saving for a house, which was very, very difficult.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I had external aspirations that I needed to achieve that depended on the job that I had.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up losing uh leaving that role to go and work for another company.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I actually went into an administration role there because there wasn't any power planner roles available, but that was my foot into the door of a bigger company.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not long after I'd been there, I got involved with power planning again because it was my strength, it was what I enjoyed, carried on sitting exams.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a power planner then left.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I applied for his job, and they essentially said, Well, no, you're you're not a pointer, you only work on templates.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking, well, hold on a minute, the power planner that I'm sitting next to is doing exactly the same thing to me.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, how am I not really seen as a power planner here?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, at this point, I think I've got four exams under my belt, and I was doing exactly the same role as them.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the salary issue was there.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't until I then came to AV Trinity that, you know, I felt like I was constantly swimming against the tide.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I was doing everything right, I was thriving, I was learning, I was sitting my exams, I was showing will in, I was putting myself out, and yet years after joining the industry and years after doing a paraplanner role, no one would still call me a paraplanner.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up coming to AV Trinity actually as a trainee paraplanner.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because again, I couldn't put paraplanner really on my CV because I hadn't been one.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no sooner did I get there, I passed my probation period within three months, and it was at that stage that they made me a full paraplanner.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the first time in my life, and that was four years after joining the industry that I finally felt that I'd actually been seen for what I was doing.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, everything that I'd said that I was doing, I for the first time I was actually seen.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there were so many times during that time period that I thought, what's the point?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my mum's always said to me, work hard in life, babe, and you'll get to where you need to be.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt like I spent four years doing that, and yet no one would give me that opportunity.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: No one would say, Yeah, Beth, actually, you are doing a good job, and I would class you as a paraplanner until I came here.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so easy to give up.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, what my mum said was right all along because actually I did end up getting what I deserved.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: It just took a long time.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, for anyone that's in that situation, that's looking at that situation, thinking, This is so unfair, I've been whittling away at this.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: One day you will walk into an interview and someone will see that determination and that drive, and they will give you a chance.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: It might not be now, but they will if you carry on.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I fully appreciate on your side, like how frustrating that must be, you know, especially when you're in a position where, you know, when you're in that firm and the power planner leaves and you go for the role and they say, no, you're not there yet because you're doing this.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the person sitting next to you that has that job title is doing exactly that thing.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it naturally is um, you know, obviously, I come from a rough recruitment background, and I speak to a lot of people that unfortunately do feel that frustration um when they are doing a certain role without the title.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it only negatively impacts um, you know, the the culture, you know, people's motivation, people's drive.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, as you've seen for yourself, staff retention because you ended up going somewhere where you can be really happy and that did see that little bit of something in you.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you mentioned then it was, you know, that mindset was a big thing because it must be really difficult to brush yourself off and keep going when you feel that frustrated.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Was there well, was there points when you did think, you know, I'm gonna throw the towel in, you know, this industry isn't for me, or did you always have that sort of fire to keep keep moving forward?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite conflicted, I think, because I think it's very easy sometimes to have your head turned by money.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes you you think, well, hold on a minute, I'm gonna be owning more doing this, but I loved the industry.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the biggest shift in mindset that I had, and I've had this twice in my life, is that whenever I've gone in for a job, I'm very, very loyal when I work for a company.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I, in both jobs, I wanted to do the very best that I could for the company.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you were studying because you wanted to be better at your job, so that then, you know, when you're writing reports, you know this about pensions, you know that about pensions.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: In both instances where I was treated like that, my mindset changed that actually I wasn't doing it for them, I was doing it for me.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there was just that fire in my belly because my mum always said to me when I was younger, once you've taken your exams, no one can take them away from you.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of then studying that company that I was working for, that quite frankly wasn't treating me very nicely.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Nicely, I was doing this for me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't matter how they were treating me.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, I was going to get my diploma and I knew I could walk into any job that I wanted with a diploma, showing that I'd worked for three years and I had that determination.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was the biggest shift in mindset for me.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like, all right, you do you then, but I'm going to get this for myself.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was everything changed.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you said as well, like earlier on, obviously, you're just talking then about like going into a different job when someone, you know, is not treating you the way that you deserve, and you begin to recognise that shift of mindset as like, I'm not doing this just for my employer, I'm doing this for myself and for at the point where I want to be.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, you had job changes then before you've got to somewhere where you feel really settled.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you even touched on this earlier on, you know, you were doing the job but didn't necessarily have the title.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you navigate like interview process um and having discussions with prospective employers and trying to get that across?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think lots of people in our audience will really resonate with that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually, if I'm honest, particularly when I train to AD Trinity, you're having conversations where you're actually explaining your background.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, there's probably a lot of people listening to this thinking, I'm working for a one-man band, which means that if there's people like me out there, if you then go into a job interview and you're having that very same conversation with somebody, that people are human beings at the end of the day.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So all you really need to do is talk about cases that you've worked on and things like that to really show that actually you know what you're talking about and that you have done those things.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But just explain the situation and just say this is the setup because actually it's very common in our industry to work for a Wamabam, but actually, loads of people are getting involved in loads and loads of different roles.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that potential employers would be surprised to hear that there are other people in that situation.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean that they can't do the job, it just means that perhaps there is no scope in that company to move them up from a money perspective, from a job role perspective.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are human beings, and I think they'd understand that.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I would recommend just to be honest.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, you know, coming from a recruitment perspective is something that I hear very, very often.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've had multiple conversations with power planners that really are senior power planners, you know, they sit on client meetings, they have discussions um with clients to go through more technical things in cases, power planners that really are team leaders doing workflow management, you know, um doing like man and mentorship, doing the mentorship, the training.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So unfortunately, it is a lot more common than people in the audience might think.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're having those job interviews and meeting prospective employers, just be honest with the situation.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't, you don't need to taint your current company with a bad brush, but you can say, this is what I'm doing day to day.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, good companies will pick up on the fact that those duties really do correlate with other roles, but you've really got to champion yourself at this stage and you know, use those conversations as an element to really promote what you do.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I guess coming from a place now where, you know, I know Beth, you get involved with sort of like new people that come within the business, you know, and you've obviously now a financial planner, so higher up within a business than you were in these positions.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to employers out there that, you know, we get business owners that listen to this, and someone might be thinking, oh, that person in my company really is doing that job, but I'm I'm not giving them the accolade that they deserve, you know.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to the the business owners and the managers who people that might be putting their employees in this position?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think give people a chance because, you know, A B Trinity gave me a chance.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was difficult for me when I became an advisor because A B Trinity, so we we've got seven advisors, five of them are women and two are men.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're quite unusual.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think everybody else had had previous advisor experience.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my colleagues actually came from a bank assurance experience.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was the first person that had come in as a trainee paraplanner, then a paraplanner, then a senior paraplanner that showed any moves to want to become an advisor.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And from their perspective, they were like, she's earned her strides.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: We know that she's she's good, she's she's loyal, she's determined, she's driven.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: But how do we train her?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm really, really lucky actually that they gave me a chance because they could have so easily not, and they put together a really clear and cohesive plan for me.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we did a lot of observations, we did a lot of role plays, and I've been so lucky with the other advisors that I've worked with because they have helped me along the way.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I first became an advisor, every day was a school day.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were coming across things that as a power planner you wouldn't thought twice about, but as an advisor, because you're being asked the question, and all of a sudden that the confidence goes.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been given so much help from the people along the way, but you have to give people a chance because otherwise, if you don't give people a chance, they will go and reach their ambitions elsewhere.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: If they're really serious, they absolutely will.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, you could have somebody who is determined, driven, never off sick, hard worker, and you could see that person walk out the door just because you're not going to give them a chance.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it just seems criminal to me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's such a great nugget of wisdom there.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think maybe a bit of reality check to hopefully people in the audience won't necessarily resonate with that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, there will be people in the audience that do um, you know, will feel that they're undervalued by their current employer.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of this about your exam journey and your career journey to date to get you to a point where you are successful, really successful, comes a lot down to, I said this expression to you before, being your own biggest cheerleader instead of your own worst critic.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um we touched on positive mental attitude, but do you think all of that sort of like really supporting yourself, backing yourself, has played a big part in getting you to the point that you are now being a chartered fellow financial advisor?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well, the one thing that that my boss has always said to me is be more assertive.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is so easy when you are younger, when you feel that perhaps you don't necessarily have the footing.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody doubts themselves within a company.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: You feel like you haven't necessarily got the footing within a company, but if you want something, you have to be assertive.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that everybody, me included, has spent years dancing around hoping that if you mention that you want to be an advisor and you get your exams and you're getting chartered, that somebody's just gonna walk in and say, Hey Beth, do you fancy being an advisor?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be assertive and you have to say, Look, this is what I want.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna get there?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there the capability within this company?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: What hoops do you need me to jump through?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because then at least that point you've got a clear plan, but you have to be assertive.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's positive mental attitude and being assertive, deciding what you want and not stopping until you get there.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think that's a great, you know, for our audience listening to this, for the listeners, the viewers, if you've got ambitions and you've got a place within this industry that you want to go, if you work hard enough and you believe that you can do it, you can get there.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one little story that we've not mentioned, but you said to me before that I think was so nice that I'd like to bring to the audience was obviously you didn't go to uni, so you didn't have a graduation, but that was something that was you know always a line of sight for you.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to go into that story in a bit more detail?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I never went to university and I never thought that graduating was something that was ever going to be in my grasp, so to speak.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to my sister's graduation and it was lovely, you know, she was in her gown and her hat and whatever.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was around that time that my boss had said to me, What's next?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that a graduation came at the end of that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh my god.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm being completely honest, I didn't really get chartered to be chartered.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I got chartered because I wanted a graduation.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm honest, that was my driving force, having that nice day in London, you know.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would go for a walk of an evening time, you know, during COVID, don't you really have too much to do, did they?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I would imagine myself at my graduation, and at the time, that, you know, not things like, you know, what acceptance speech I'd do or anything like that, you know, what your outfit would be, where you'd like to go for dinner afterwards.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, at the time I didn't know that was manifestation, but it absolutely is.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel like manifestation is a lot more prevalent within the last couple of years, but you're just imagining things in your head.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that manifest I I knew that no matter what happened, no matter how long it took me, I was going to become chartered one day because I was going to that graduation.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I think that's it, isn't it?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of having that in your mind and imagining yourself at a place because if you imagine that you will get there.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what if you did charter just to have your um graduation, I think that's a good enough reason as any other to go through your exams because it is a it is a great experience.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and ultimately, your graduation is a celebration of your success and how much hard work you've done to get to that point.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So while it's lovely, the gowns and the dresses and where I'm going to eat, it's just having that moment where you know you can sit there and you can bring your family and it can be a celebration of how hard that you've worked.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the manifestation point because it's something that I talk about a lot.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know Sam and Charlie, the other hosts on the podcast, all are interested in their personal professional lives.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's something that anyone can use.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you really want to be a financial advisor, just imagining yourself in, you know, those client meetings, sitting in down in front of people.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I still have instances of things that I want to do um professionally, and I just envision them happening in my head.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell myself that with the hard work and the determination that, you know, one day that we can get there.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you obviously have noted um that you joined the industry very young.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you still are a younger profile financial advisor, even though you're you're chartered and you've got fellow.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we've discussed a bit about like changing the narrative about age and gender within the industry.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to go into like your opinions and things like that in a bit more detail?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I personally think, I mean, I appreciate that, you know, I am probably on the younger side.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing is, I keep bragging about how young I am.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I am 31, you know, the 20s are long gone.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think, you know, that is still young to be a financial advisor.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was obviously 27 when I was a financial advisor.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well, this industry is largely men heavy, isn't it?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm completely honest, I have never really felt that my age or my gender has ever actually held me back.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether or not it's because I went to an all-girls school that perhaps there was never that competition between men.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether or not it's because the way that my parents raised me just to believe that I could achieve whatever I wanted to achieve.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I sort of came in here not even considering that my gender would ever be an issue.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, don't get me wrong, when you go to conferences, they are largely men, but never once have I walked in and thought, oh, you know, I feel like I shouldn't be here.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think age as well.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've I had one client meeting once where I was asked about three times what my age was, because it was a case of, you know, well, you must be the same age as my daughter.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I never jumped on it because I thought, no, it doesn't matter how old I am, you're gonna be able to see at this point that I know what I'm talking about, and age is nothing but a number.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've also had the other situation where I've had clients actually specifically decide to go ahead with me because of my age, because they don't want to go with somebody that will be retiring the next few years.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: They want somebody that they can work alongside for many years.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've had a real positive experience.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would always say to people, you know, if you are a bit younger, if you're a girl and you feel that that holds you back or whatever, the the just go for it because actually you'll be fine.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a positive experience.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've got um a friend who's also a financial advisor, she's a similar age to me, and she's had exactly the same as well.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think never let preconceived ideas put you off of going down a career path because actually I feel that I've had a real positive experience there.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um it was a really interesting, it's a really interesting point because I think until we initially spoke, and you sort of shined a light on it, um, it was some an idea that I'd never thought about in that particular way.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, as you said then, you know, it is a male-dominated industry.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are new advisors coming into the profession, but we always talk about the advisor cap uh advisor gap as um more older advisors will look to retire in the near future.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and don't get me wrong, you know, I'm sure people have very valid instances where they feel like their age or their gender or, you know, ethnic diversity or anything like that has impacted their, you know, impacted as a scenario or something like that.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: However, when we shine too much of a light on that, we almost need to change the narrative, as we just said then, about how, you know, wherever you come from, whatever age, whatever gender, the there is space in the profession for you.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because the opposite is when we talk so much about how these factors can affect your career, it might disencourage people to join, which is ultimately what we don't want to be doing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well, coming to Fabie Trinity for me was so refreshing because obviously I started off as a junior power planner, but the majority of the advisors at my company are women, and you look at them and you're like, particularly when I was younger, you aspired to be like that because they took it all in their stride, they don't care about their gender, they they know what they are, they know that they're good at their job and they have that confidence about them.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I definitely would never let preconceived ideas put you off of somewhere because actually there is the right fit for you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you are if you are a victim of prejudice for whatever reason, age or gender, I think A, it says more about the person that is doing it to you than than yourself, and B, if that's in the workplace, you get up and you go.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is the top and bottom of it ultimately, because there will be somewhere out there that will facilitate you for you.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's with any career there is really.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: There is obviously an issue.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: We need to promote more young people, we need to promote more women, more people from ethnic minorities into an in into the industry.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there is a a doubt about that.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: But with any career in any profession, there is always going to be bad apples, you know, you're always gonna have that that boss that isn't particularly nice.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that is specific to the financial planning profession.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, as you said then, you know, if you are unfortunately in a scenario where you are mistreated and you can be, you know, um, you can be like a a white elderly man and still be mistreated, you know, it doesn't always just come down to prejudice.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you get in contact with a bad apple, you know, it says more about the bad apple and there will be better places for you to move on to.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well, don't take it personally, because in my second role that I worked in, I worked with a real bad apple.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And at first you start to take it quite personally, and then actually, as your confidence grows a bit more, you actually realize that that is literally a them problem.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where, again, that mindset shifts because actually it doesn't matter what they think about you, you know you're gonna wander off with your diploma at some of you bad three years or three months or whatever, but you are gonna wander off with your diploma and leave that person in the dust.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the confidence to know that, and I think that's so important.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's with life across the board, isn't it?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever someone is yeah, whenever someone is being rude to you, or you know, even I've had it times when like someone brushes past you in the street and just whispers or says something under their breath at you, so like I always think like, wow, what negative situation are they in that they feel like they have to project that onto me, you know?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's you know, a great thing for you know, take it on board with the workplace and then just everything in general that if someone is acting in a certain way, they've got to be unhappy enough in their self for them to do that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a ref it's not a reflection of you, it's a projection of how unhappy or stressed or frustrated or angry they must be.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think with little things like that, you've you've often got to take it with a pinch of salt and just sort of move on with things because you can spend so much time getting bogged down on things which really aren't personal.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're more to do with that person than yourself.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the longer you're doing that for, the longer you're then not focusing on where you need to be.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, you're just wasting valuable time, aren't you?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've spoken about then um, you know, how your experience within the industry have been very largely positive.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, you've got other people, you know, professional people friends in the industry, and you know, that they've had very similar experiences.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, from someone that is very not directly within the profession, but very immersed in it, you know, I love being an extension of financial planning because I genuinely think it's an incredible industry where you can add a tremendous amount of value.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to keep that thriving profession, we need to encourage more young people, you know, people like yourself, the from school leavers, um, to get into the profession.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you feel like we navigate that?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what do you feel like we can be done to keep encouraging young people to think about a career within financial planning?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that more needs to be done in schools.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't know about financial services, um, didn't even really know about it, even when I started working in it, you know, all those years ago.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we as a company, we've done a few things where we've done, say, for example, careers fests at local schools, because you know, children nowadays are being conditioned to believe that the only way you can be successful in life is if you go to university.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that that is utterly damaging because don't get me wrong, there are some professions that you absolutely need to go to university for, um, doctors, surgeons, and things like that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, in our industry, I look at, you know, the fact that I'm chartered fellow, I'm going to be graduating soon.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at that and I think I've achieved everything that those people that went to university have achieved.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, I've done it at the same time that I've got experience and I've got no debt under my belt.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that actually things need to be spoken about in schools to try really and encourage people.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I don't know whether or not potentially apprenticeships could be a good idea in the financial services industry, but I think a lot more should be done in schools to really tell people that actually there are a lot of other ways that you can be successful because let's face it, it's not just financial services.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can go into plumbing, you can do all of these things and be incredibly, incredibly successful.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, what's being drummed into children's minds at the moment are university or nothing.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I was at school, you were somewhat treated as an outcast because you weren't going to university.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally like, okay, well, the people that are going to uni can go to the assembly this morning, but if you're not going to uni, you don't need to worry about it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was literally like 10 of us left kicking around after that's not great, because you know, it gives the people that are going to university a feeling that they're somewhat superior, and it gives the people that are not going to university that feeling of, well, they've all got their mind and life in check, and I haven't, but there's nothing wrong with that.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're 18, you know, and I think that so much more pressure needs to be taken off of that.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can I completely agree.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's that that in itself is really damaging to input with children that you, you know, you're almost, yeah, as you've seen, seen as superior because you're going to university.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not, you know, you don't have to worry about that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely agree with your university point of view.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I've, you know, I'm the opposite.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I went to university.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have a human geography degree, and I'm sat here doing, I don't even know what job is related to having a human geography degree, to be completely honest.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved my time at uni, and I did a lot of the things that I learned about and the themes that I've learned about are still look relevant to this day because I did a lot on feminist geography, which is a lot of why I'm like interested in like women in the profession and hearing and shine a light on women's stories.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: But if we get to the nuts and bolts of it, I didn't need to go to university.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't need to go to university to do my job or to do my job or to be successful.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely agree.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was quite academic at school.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then naturally, you know, what was the next step to go into university?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, I loved my time doing that, but I do think that we took put way too much pressure on that being the next step.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've had people that have come on the podcast who are at the same age as people that are leaving university and they've already got their level four diploma and they're already in, you know, power planning roles, and then graduates step out and are interested in these positions and they're three years behind the game.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, in fact, in those scenarios, not going to university can work in your favour.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one, I completely agree with you that encouraging more young people into the profession is in turn showing them the avenue that can be had, and that does not necessarily require going to university.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: That can be starting in a full-time job and then continuing with your education alongside that, you know, shining a light on different avenues.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even though I fully appreciate the university is absolutely amazing and as I said, made so many, built so many skills and life memories there.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the next step is once people are in the profession or have started their first job job, I guess something that you lacked earlier on, but you're really passionate about doing moving forward is just championing, championing, champion, I can't say that, championing the young people once they, once they're starting out on their career.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big believer in paying it forward.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I, I mean, don't get me wrong, I never felt that it was somebody else's responsibility to help me.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: As I say, actually, people not helping.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Me gave me that fire in my belly that I was like, all right, then well, I'm gonna do it anyway.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: It might take me a bit longer, but I will get there.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until I came to AV Trinity that my boss at the time said to me, um, there's no such thing as a stupid question.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt so safe at that point.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, you probably regretted ever saying that because I used to stay late to study and I'd be picking all the advisors' brains.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain this?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain that?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And but they all took the time and they all did that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the first time that I've ever had that where you actually felt like you're in a team.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're all employed advisors, we're not self-employed, and so we do work very well together as a team.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you actually want your colleagues to do well because you know, you're a team, you there's no difference between between you effectively, and that's lovely.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've appreciated that so much that when I can then help other people that are studying for exams, I am all for that.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I we've got a girl at work at the moment who's just studying for her AF5, she's been given her fact find, and she said, Could you please have a look at it for me and let me know the type of thing that you you think is going to come up?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately everyone's gonna come up with a different answer, everyone's gonna pick a specific sentence out that is relevant to something else.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big believer in that, you know, and I spent half an hour putting together notes, sending them on, because if people hadn't have done that to me, I wouldn't be where I was.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And who is anyone to deny anybody else reaching their full potential and their ambition, in my opinion?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I really think that if you are in a position that you know you've received help past, or even if you haven't, just pay a little something back to potentially the not even the younger people, the people that are less experienced.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these could be people that are joining the industry at a later stage in their life, desperate to have a new career.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even age, but if somebody is trying, I will always help.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I completely agree then, you know, not just you know, young people that might be coming out of education, no second careerists.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are so many people that have had a successful career but want to build a career within financial planning, because as we keep saying, it's such a wonderful industry to work within.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess it's all about being the change that you want to see on the person that you you want to see.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you said then, like if someone's ever helped you out in any shape or form, paying that forward and helping someone else, or maybe as you might have felt in the past, if maybe there were situations where you know you could have maybe done with a bit of more support, you know, being that supportive figure that you would have wanted at that moment in time.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where some people go wrong is that people are in competition with another.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes people want other people to do well because if that person does well, would that then mean that they're better than me?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've only ever been in competition with myself.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I strive to achieve the best because that's what I want for myself.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not, I'm very sort of, you know, the horse with the with the eyes, I'm very sort of tunnel vision.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get to where I want to go to, and I don't necessarily notice what's going on around me.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some people that I have come across in the past don't want to help you because they don't want to see you getting better at your job and things like that.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's what I would never ever want to be.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: As long as I've achieved the things that I want to achieve, I absolutely want that for everybody else, you know.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I it doesn't bother me if somebody comes in and they end up being a million times better than me.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Good for them is what I think, you know.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's exactly the right attitude to have Beth.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess to round this all up nicely, you're obviously someone that's very driven, really organized, really motivated.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna put you on the spot.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you might not necessarily have a direct answer for this.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: But do you have something that you do every single day that's like part of a morning routine, part of an evening routine, like something that is like non-negotiable for you day to day that you do part of your working day?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I do during my working day.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I write lists.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: I am a list person.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, and do you know, I'm one of them people, and this is really sad to admit, but even if something I've done something that wasn't on my list, I will add it to my list just to cross it off.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am very, very driven by lists, you know.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very structured, I'm very ordered, and don't get me wrong, best laid plans and all that, because actually, you know, sometimes you get a client call come in, you do this, but I will always go back to my list.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not necessarily rigid with it, but I like to have a sense of direction for my day.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I like to know where it's going.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I would just say, yeah, you've just got to focus your mind on something, haven't you?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And mine is definitely lists.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: List.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it gives you that sense of achievement at the end of the day when you know, some days you look at it, so I do lists, and some days I look at it and I go, bloody hell, I've done two things on that, and it's 5 p.m.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it definitely gives you a really nice sense of achievement when you get to whatever time and you're like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, uh, and you've done them all.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess as you said, then that can keep you motivated and focused and allow you to concentrate on on all different avenues, may you know, be in a position where you're studying for exams or you've got a certain case that you need to work on.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm actually I'm moving more into studying again, actually, because I'm gonna be focusing.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've I work with divorce people, which generally appear to be women that I have been working with, and I really, really like working with those people because actually a lot of the time people come to you and they are quite vulnerable, understandably, because you know, divorce is the most stressful thing you can go through.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, part of my job, I think, is hand holding and making sure that people understand exactly what's going on and watching the confidence rise in these people that have never invested before, they've never sought financial advice before, they're going through the most stressful thing in their life.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Watching their confidence boost is just fantastic.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's it's definitely the area that I want to go down.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we I'm going to be studying quite a lot to do the I don't know whether you've ever heard of POD reports, which is pension on divorce expert um reports, which are a complete different kettle of fish to normal advising, I suppose.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it's getting back into that for me now.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm doing a lot of reading and I'm incorporating that sort of thing back into my day.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: So three years after sitting an exam again, I'm I'm getting back into it, but it's always making time for it, isn't it?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Adding it to your list and then making sure that you get it done.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Adding to adding to adding it to your list and making sure that you get it done.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much, um, Beth, for taking the time this morning to speak with me.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um loads of helpful nuggets in there in terms of like facing adversity, your exam story, and we've shined a light on, you know, not just all the glossy highs, but how you can navigate those lows as well.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me this morning.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's been lovely.