Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HEALTH-BOSS SHOOTING: IVY LEAGUE GRAD TURNED ALLEGED “ASSASSIN” CHARGED WITH MURDER

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HEALTH-BOSS SHOOTING: IVY LEAGUE GRAD TURNED ALLEGED “ASSASSIN” CHARGED WITH MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, an IVY league grad turned
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Speaker 1: assassin now charged with murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Breaking a person of interest identified in the United Healthcare
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Speaker 2: CEO shooting. A man taken into custody in Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Chief of Detectives NYPD Joe Kinney, A.
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Speaker 3: Man was taking it to custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
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Speaker 3: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
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Speaker 3: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
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Speaker 3: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
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Speaker 3: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
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Speaker 3: He has no prior arrest history in New York. This
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Speaker 3: case was brought to a successful conclusion based on the
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Speaker 3: co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the Intelligence
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Speaker 3: and counter Terrorism Bureau, of federal partners at the FBI,
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Speaker 3: the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of
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Speaker 3: the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 2: Repeat for those.
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Speaker 1: Of you just joining us, bombshell. An arrest has been
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Speaker 1: made in the so called health Boss murder of all people,
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Speaker 1: an IVY League grad turn assassin born with a silver
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Speaker 1: spoon in his mouth right now in isolation and a
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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania CI Correctional Institute at Huntingdon.
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Speaker 2: What happened?
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Speaker 1: How did a guy with everything turn into a cold
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Speaker 1: blooded assassin? Joining me in All Star Panel Straight Out
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Speaker 1: to Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Dailymail
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Speaker 1: dot Com and star of the podcast The Trial of
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Speaker 1: Didi Hermania.
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Speaker 2: Tell tell me about the arrest? Right.
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Speaker 4: So, finally, after a five day manhunt, police found a suspect,
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Speaker 4: Luigi Mandiano, at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Actually, police now
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Speaker 4: say that he had been in the state, moving back
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Speaker 4: and forth between Pittsburgh and other places for days. It
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Speaker 4: appears that an employee at McDonald's called police after someone
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Speaker 4: recognized him and said he was acting suspicious. Police said
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Speaker 4: yesterday that when they approached him, he gave the same
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Speaker 4: fake ID from New Jersey that he had given to
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Speaker 4: check into the hostel in New York. Now, when police
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Speaker 4: asked him if he had recently been to New York,
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Speaker 4: that's when he started shaking and became very nervous, and
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Speaker 4: that's when he was arrested. And now he's been now
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Speaker 4: charged with the murder of Brian Thompson.
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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Tyler Fry.
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Speaker 1: Now, this is a rookie police officer, was formerly with
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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department.
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Speaker 2: Listen whatever we got on to.
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Speaker 5: Seeing there, we were able to pretty much find where
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Speaker 5: he was at the in the restaurant, and as soon
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Speaker 5: as he pulled he was wearing a blue medical mask.
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Speaker 5: As soon as we pulled that down, or we asked
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Speaker 5: him to pull it down, we me and my partner
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Speaker 5: and I recognized him immediately. He didn't even think twice
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Speaker 5: about it. We knew that was our guy, but he
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Speaker 5: was very he was very cooperative with us, didn't really
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Speaker 5: give us too many issues. Once we found out his identity,
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Speaker 5: we took it from.
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Speaker 1: There time or Fry being lauded today in making the arrest.
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Speaker 1: That's where our friends at eleven Alive. To Dave Matt,
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Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter who's been on the
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Speaker 1: case from the very beginning. Dave Matt, the big conflicting
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Speaker 1: reports did to MacDonald's employee, I d him or was
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Speaker 1: in an elderly patron who identified Maggioni, Luigi Maggioni and
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Speaker 1: that patron then alerted an employee.
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Speaker 2: And the employee he called nine one one. How did
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Speaker 2: it go down, Mack?
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Speaker 6: That is exactly how it happened, Nancy. An elderly couple
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Speaker 6: looking over noticed him. He was sitting in the very
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Speaker 6: back of the restaurant. He's got his little blue mask up.
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Speaker 6: He's sitting there eating breakfast, looking at his laptop. But
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Speaker 6: an elderly man inscribes him back there and goes to
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Speaker 6: an employee says, I think that's the guy. So the
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Speaker 6: employee calls and the police were right there.
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Speaker 1: Now I've heard that he was acting suspiciously. To Cheryl
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Speaker 1: mccollumy's joining me, forensic expert and director of the Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, star of hit podcast Zone seven.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl, you have to have a.
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Speaker 1: Reason to detain, Okay, not arrest, but to detain.
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Speaker 2: It's an age.
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Speaker 1: Old similar case us versus Terry.
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Speaker 2: Okay, to stop someone.
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Speaker 1: Just to ask for ID so to say he was
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Speaker 1: acting suspiciously, the guys in the back booth out of
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Speaker 1: McDonald's on his laptop. I don't know what is suspicious
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Speaker 1: about that. I'll tell you what I think, Cheryl. I
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Speaker 1: think they identified him. The patron identify, find him and go, hey,
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Speaker 1: that's the guy I'm seeing on TV that's shot down.
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Speaker 1: The CEO and the employee call nine one one. I
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Speaker 1: don't know what's suspicious about that, but a police officer
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Speaker 1: has the right, based on intuition, to ask you for ID.
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Speaker 2: That is okay.
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Speaker 7: They were called there because two people, not one, thought hey,
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Speaker 7: that looks like the guy, and if he's eating breakfast,
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Speaker 7: he's having to move that mask a little bit to
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Speaker 7: take a bite. Once they approach him, law enforcement says, hey,
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Speaker 7: we were called here. Let me just go ahead and
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Speaker 7: see your ID. The ID that he gives them is
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Speaker 7: the same sake New Jersey ID that he gave to
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Speaker 7: the hostel. At that point, they're like, this is the guy.
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Speaker 7: We also recognize him from the photograph that NYPD put out,
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Speaker 7: And I just want to say that is absolutely fantastic
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Speaker 7: police work that they put his face out so fast
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Speaker 7: that somebody in Pennsylvania is going to recognize him.
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Speaker 2: Joining you right now.
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Speaker 1: High profile lawyer, defense attorney Jason Oceans, who practices in
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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, Jason Oceans, don't you just hate it as
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Speaker 1: a defense attorney when the cops do it by the book,
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Speaker 1: there's really nothing for you to complain about.
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Speaker 2: And can't you just see it. After my dad retired.
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Speaker 1: From the railroad, a group of his friends he would
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Speaker 1: occasionally go, very rarely, but they would get together at McDonald's. Okay,
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Speaker 1: they're not paying five dollars for a cup of coffee
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Speaker 1: at Starbucks. And they would be there every day, many
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Speaker 1: of them military vets like my father. And can't you
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Speaker 1: just see people that go to McDonald's every day and
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Speaker 1: they're sitting there going, Oh my stars, that's him.
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Speaker 2: And the police did not screw it up. This rookie
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Speaker 2: formally a sheriff, however, comes.
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Speaker 1: In, he's got a suspicion and he does a terry
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Speaker 1: goold terry stop.
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Speaker 2: I think you highlighted that way.
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Speaker 8: And know as a defense attorney, listen, you're presented the
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Speaker 8: evidence and the facts as they are.
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Speaker 2: Nancy, you know, we don't make that up.
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Speaker 8: We might highlight things or focus on different aspects to
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Speaker 8: ensure you.
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Speaker 4: Know, justice, if you will.
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Speaker 2: But it was a great stop.
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Speaker 8: And you quite properly note that he was experienced as
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Speaker 8: a sheriff. So we might have been a rookie to
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Speaker 8: the Altuona PD, but certainly his instincts kicked in, moved
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Speaker 8: the mass, secured the scene, made sure that he was
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Speaker 8: safe and his partner, and you know, kudos to DENYPD
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Speaker 8: and getting the information out the picture, as it's been
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Speaker 8: noted that was widespread national news and really just good
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Speaker 8: old police detective work.
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Speaker 1: Hey Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective, thirty years
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Speaker 1: in the city, now star.
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Speaker 2: Of the Goldshield Show. It's a podcast, Tom Smith, thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with me. Tom.
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Speaker 1: You know how wrong this could have gone, how sideways
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Speaker 1: it could have all turned. You know, he had the
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Speaker 1: ghost gun with him, and one of the gun charges
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Speaker 1: against him, he's got multiple gun charges is a he's
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Speaker 1: got a suppressor aka silencer. But also he had a
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Speaker 1: loaded illegal gun. There wasn't just some amo in his backpack.
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Speaker 1: That gun was loaded.
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Speaker 2: You know how wrong this takedown could have gone.
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Speaker 9: They could have gone terribly wrong. The good thing was
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Speaker 9: they got him kind of by surprise. They got him
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Speaker 9: in a confined area, and the deputies who showed up
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Speaker 9: did a masterful job at doing this. They got on
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Speaker 9: top of him quick before he could do anything or
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Speaker 9: think about anything. And like I said, being in that
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Speaker 9: corner helped them a lot and they took advantage of that.
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Speaker 1: You mean him sitting in a back booth in the corner. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there was nowhere for him.
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Speaker 9: To go, absolutely, And that's what you're talking about, yes, ma'am.
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Speaker 2: You know that's what Smith. This is when I asked
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Speaker 2: you what could have gone wrong?
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Speaker 1: I was a rookie ADA Assistant District attorney in inter
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Speaker 1: city Atlanta and had befriended a cop, a rookie cop
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Speaker 1: that had testified in a lot of I was putting
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Speaker 1: up to the grand jury, Randy Shapani, and he made
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Speaker 1: a routine traffic stop.
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Speaker 2: Routine traffic stop. That was it.
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Speaker 1: The guy rolled down, the driver rolled down the window,
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Speaker 1: took a gun and shot him in the head, just.
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Speaker 2: Like that for nothing. So you never know when is
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Speaker 2: going to be your last day all the police force.
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Speaker 10: Tom Oh.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, I lived with that for thirty years. And that's
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Speaker 9: what I mean by the great actions of this deputy.
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Speaker 9: He didn't let him get in upper hand. He took
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Speaker 9: control of the situation and had him covered, giving him
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Speaker 9: no way to get out of that area or to
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Speaker 9: any overt act towards the officers.
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Speaker 1: According to a friend of his, his vertebra were about
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Speaker 1: a quarter to a half inch disaligned. The pain was
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Speaker 1: excruciating and possibly had pinched a nerve.
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Speaker 2: Dave Matt Crime Online.
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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that he confided her friends and his
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Speaker 1: coshier on the fortieth floor of a Hawaii high rise
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Speaker 1: that he couldn't have sex because.
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Speaker 2: Of back pain.
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Speaker 6: It's a constant, agonizing feelings that he had all the time,
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Speaker 6: and talking about not being able to have sex was
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Speaker 6: just a way of him expressing that this was a
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Speaker 6: chronic situation with no relief insight. It's like rusting from
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Speaker 6: the inside.
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Speaker 1: Nancy Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Joining me.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of Body
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Speaker 1: Bags with Josephcott Morgan. Joe Scott explain the intense pain,
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Speaker 1: intense pain that comes along with a back ailment like
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Speaker 1: that and how that factors in to a young man
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Speaker 1: twenty six years old they can have sex.
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Speaker 10: Yeah, it would be horribly frustrating Nancy over this period
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Speaker 10: of time, and you can see the horrific appearance of this.
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Speaker 10: The surgery in and of itself is something that he
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Speaker 10: would have been laid up with for a protracted period
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Speaker 10: of time. We've got four screws that are being demonstrated here,
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Speaker 10: and this is a crucial pivot point in the axis
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Speaker 10: of your body. So he would have been dealing with
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Speaker 10: chronic pain, Nancy. One of the things I'm wondering about,
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Speaker 10: and I talked to Bethany about this off air, I
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Speaker 10: really wonder if he was taking medication for pain management
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Speaker 10: relative to this, because this is not something that would
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Speaker 10: have just you know, he would have just healed from
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Speaker 10: it very easily. We have to understand how far post
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Speaker 10: surgical he is to try to understand this. Was he
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Speaker 10: under the influence of any kind of medication and did
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Speaker 10: he even have a doctor that he was following.
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Speaker 1: I know where you're going with this. This is like
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Speaker 1: pouring gas on the fire. For Jason Ocean's defense attorney,
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Speaker 1: whether he was on pain meds or not does not
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Speaker 1: change intent to fire the weapon. He is currently charged
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Speaker 1: with at least three crimes one murder two in New York.
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Speaker 2: Why not murder one? Murder one in New York? Correct
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Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, Jason Oceans.
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Speaker 1: Murder one is usually reserved for a police officer. A
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Speaker 1: correctional officer that has been killed, torture is used. That's
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Speaker 1: when we see a murder one. Charged with murder one, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: you can get life without parole murder two, Jason, Police,
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Speaker 1: I don't mind if you interrupt.
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Speaker 2: Murder two is when you intend to do the act.
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Speaker 2: It's not an accident.
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Speaker 1: It's not drunk driving, it's not voluntary manslaughter. It's not
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Speaker 1: a heat of passion. You mean to.
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Speaker 2: Pull the trigger.
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Speaker 1: Yes, the sentence from murder II in New York is
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Speaker 1: fifteen to life. There is no life without parole for
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Speaker 1: murder two. He's charged with that. He's charged with forging
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Speaker 1: and that's probably going to be his passport, and he's
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Speaker 1: charged that is called forged document, either the passport or
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Speaker 1: the driver's license, and he's yeah.
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Speaker 2: And he's charged with.
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Speaker 1: One count of criminal possession of a weapon including a suppressor,
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Speaker 1: a silencer, and I believe he's going to be charged
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Speaker 1: with possession of live AMMO and a gun. Also, he
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Speaker 1: had a weapon without a serial number on it.
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Speaker 2: We know it was a ghost gun.
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Speaker 1: Now And unless I'm wrong on those charges, Jason, do
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Speaker 1: I have any of that wrong?
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Speaker 2: Quickly, no great recitation.
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Speaker 8: The top count would be a murder two, you know,
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Speaker 8: murder one referred as you did reference only to law
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Speaker 8: enforcement officers.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is talking about isy on pain medication.
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Speaker 2: You know what.
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Speaker 1: Save it for the jury because he had this intense,
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Speaker 1: intense period of time, an extended period of time where
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Speaker 1: he planned this, and there is no way he's going
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Speaker 1: to walk because he says, oh, I took a xenax.
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Speaker 1: He may have been on pain medication, although we have
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Speaker 1: not been told he had it with him.
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Speaker 2: We know he was exploring.
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Speaker 1: Alternative methods of healing and pain release, such as magic mushrooms,
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Speaker 1: but he had the wherewithal to have a gun with
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Speaker 1: him and a fake passport, according to the NYC Police Commissioner.
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Speaker 11: Tish, Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously
14:50
Speaker 11: and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a
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Speaker 11: US passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on
15:00
Speaker 11: his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with
15:04
Speaker 11: the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing,
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Speaker 11: including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted
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Speaker 11: individual Bombshell.
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Speaker 1: In the last hours, an arrest goes down of the
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Speaker 1: so called assassin wanted and the cold blooded execution of
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Speaker 1: health care boss that ran United health Care raking in
15:30
Speaker 1: millions of dollars a year. While zany theories circulated on
15:34
Speaker 1: social media that Thomson had actually hired someone to kill him.
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Speaker 1: There were illusions that Thomson's wife was somehow involved and.
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Speaker 2: It set up a hit. All of that is bogus,
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Speaker 2: All of that is bs.
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Speaker 1: Instead, what we've got is a twenty six year old
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Speaker 1: Ivy League grad double major from University of Pennsylvania. Yet
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Speaker 1: that's him if you look at his social media. He
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Speaker 1: and his family have traveled all around the world. He
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Speaker 1: had the best of everything. His grandparents Italian immigrants that
16:16
Speaker 1: can be traced back straight to Sicily work their fingers
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Speaker 1: to the bone to build a financial empire, bought country clubs,
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Speaker 1: golf course, started them home health care, living facilities for seniors.
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Speaker 1: All that money, all that education, all that privilege, and
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Speaker 1: what does he do, According to.
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Speaker 2: Police, guns down United.
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Speaker 1: Healthcare CEO and boy, according to them, did he have
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Speaker 1: it all planned out, including the use of a three
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Speaker 1: D manufacturer at home. Ghost gun, no serial number, no
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Speaker 1: way to identify it. As a matter of fact, if
17:03
Speaker 1: you do your research, you will learn that ghost guns
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Speaker 1: are only trace less than one percent.
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Speaker 2: Of the time.
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Speaker 1: He thought he had it all figured out until an
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Speaker 1: elderly patron having coffee at McDonald's saw him and raised
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Speaker 1: the alarm.
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Speaker 11: What mortem I listen also recovered was a fraudulent New
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Speaker 11: Jersey ID, matching the ID our suspect used to check
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Speaker 11: into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally,
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Speaker 11: officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his
17:43
Speaker 11: motivation and mindset.
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Speaker 2: Oh my stars, another manifesto.
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Speaker 1: Nothing can make me happier than to have an accused
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Speaker 1: killer write a manifesto about their feelings.
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Speaker 2: Joining me.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho an wants to joining us
18:00
Speaker 1: out of la author of deal Breaker. You can see
18:03
Speaker 1: her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
18:05
Speaker 1: with us.
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Speaker 2: We hear.
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Speaker 1: Veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean's jumping on something. Joe Scott
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Speaker 1: Morgan rightly said, could this guy have been on pain meds?
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Speaker 1: But did you just hear the New York City Police
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Speaker 1: Commissioner Tish state that he had this very well thought
18:24
Speaker 1: out manifesto? He had fake IDs. The degree of pre
18:29
Speaker 1: planning is off the chart. Now, why he decided to
18:33
Speaker 1: keep his beloved ghost gun with him, which absolutely ties.
18:37
Speaker 2: Him to the murder, is beyond me.
18:39
Speaker 1: I guess that Ivy League grad from graduate degree from
18:42
Speaker 1: University Pennsylvania didn't help anything when it comes to this. Hey,
18:46
Speaker 1: this photo of the fake ID that he apparently obtained
18:49
Speaker 1: from New Jersey under the name Mark Rosario. That took
18:52
Speaker 1: some thinking or from our friends at CNN. So doctor Bethany,
18:57
Speaker 1: could you help me shoot down what Scott Morgan and
19:00
Speaker 1: Jason ogens have concocted. I took his annex, and therefore
19:05
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing.
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Speaker 12: Well, Luigi Mangioni's actions are consistent with multiple pathologies psychopathologies.
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Speaker 12: First of all, he's extraordinarily entitled to think that he
19:17
Speaker 12: could solve the whole healthcare crisis, that he's going to
19:21
Speaker 12: get rid of these parasites. He's anti capitalists. He's also
19:25
Speaker 12: very that's grandiose, it's entitled to take somebody's life. I
19:30
Speaker 12: don't believe this whole thing about the relative who was sick.
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Speaker 12: I think that's just a rationalization for murder. I think
19:36
Speaker 12: he's been homicidal since his youth. He wears what we
19:39
Speaker 12: call the mask of sanity.
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Speaker 2: On hold on, doctor Bethany.
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Speaker 1: He's brought up a really good point, and I don't
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Speaker 1: want it to get lost in the sauce.
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Speaker 2: People are trying to rationalize it. They can't believe, Oh, what's.
19:51
Speaker 1: A millionaire boy like Luigi Manngioni with his Ivy League degree,
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Speaker 1: Why would he do such a thing? You know what
20:00
Speaker 1: about it gives it that much thought when it's street crime, like, hey,
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Speaker 1: book him, he's guilty, But now we're like.
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Speaker 2: Oh, why did he do it?
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Speaker 12: I think, actually there's a clear motive, and to me,
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Speaker 12: he has this type. He would be consistent with the
20:15
Speaker 12: type of psychopathology where the person attacks the very institutions
20:19
Speaker 12: of people who are.
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Speaker 2: Trying to help them.
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Speaker 12: Okay, so think of the person in a restaurant who
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Speaker 12: screams at the waiter who's trying to do everything for them.
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Speaker 12: They just think they can't get enough service, these babylike people.
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Speaker 12: So he's anti capitalist, but he comes from a very
20:35
Speaker 12: wealthy family from whom he has benefite.
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Speaker 1: How can you be anti capitalist when you were at
20:42
Speaker 1: the trough of capitalism exactly eating more than anybody else
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Speaker 1: you're a pig.
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Speaker 12: Yeah, well, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. In other words,
20:52
Speaker 12: people who want more and more and more and never
20:54
Speaker 12: works out well for them. And also, you know he
20:57
Speaker 12: has this Ivy League education. He's also anti medicine, anti insurance.
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Speaker 12: I bet he build I bet insurance covered for that
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Speaker 12: very extensive procedure that he had.
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Speaker 2: So this again is.
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Speaker 12: Where he's attacking the institutions that are there to help him.
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Speaker 12: So some people's pathology is such that they always think
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Speaker 12: things are being done to them rather than for them.
21:22
Speaker 12: And when these people go to the hospital, they think
21:24
Speaker 12: the doctors, the nurses, everybody's you know, torturing them, not
21:28
Speaker 12: giving them what they need, and they have a difficult
21:30
Speaker 12: time putting themselves in the doctor's shoes, the fact that
21:33
Speaker 12: the doctor is there to help them. In terms of medication, Nancy,
21:39
Speaker 12: the only role I could see is that opioids, and
21:43
Speaker 12: most surely he has prescribed those activate the MEW receptors
21:48
Speaker 12: in the brain, and that those are the same receptors
21:51
Speaker 12: that are activated when our mothers hold us as children.
21:54
Speaker 1: So given that, Ethne, why just a moment plays We're
21:58
Speaker 1: showing photos of him on the each in Hawaii. Okay,
22:03
Speaker 1: I don't know who can I work every day, my
22:06
Speaker 1: husband works every day, My twins go to school every day,
22:10
Speaker 1: and they work in the summer. Who has time to
22:12
Speaker 1: take this much time off in Hawaii and live in
22:18
Speaker 1: a luxury high rise.
22:20
Speaker 2: How does that happen? Yet, you're anti capitalist. That doesn't
22:24
Speaker 2: make sense to me. Two and two is not equally four.
22:27
Speaker 12: No, it doesn't equal four unless you think of somebody
22:29
Speaker 12: who is extremely disturbed and they are resentful and envious
22:33
Speaker 12: of the people who are.
22:34
Speaker 2: Giving something to them. Think of babies.
22:37
Speaker 12: The minute the mother leaves the room, the baby screams
22:39
Speaker 12: and cries and wants the mother even more. And that's
22:43
Speaker 12: appropriate for infancy. But the baby doesn't really care or
22:47
Speaker 12: is not able to grasp that the mother might be
22:49
Speaker 12: tired or depressed or whatever, has other siblings to take
22:52
Speaker 12: care of. And so if someone gets stuck in that
22:57
Speaker 12: developmental phase, nothing that they're given is enough, and they
23:01
Speaker 12: don't care about anybody around them.
23:03
Speaker 2: They scream and cry for whatever they want.
23:06
Speaker 13: In high school, he is the valedictorian of the Gilman
23:09
Speaker 13: School for Boys, a private school in Baltimore. As an
23:12
Speaker 13: Ivy League graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. He is
23:15
Speaker 13: a tech whiz, but somewhere along the way, Luigi Mangioni
23:18
Speaker 13: developed a grudge against the medical community, either due to
23:21
Speaker 13: how a sick relative is treated or maybe his own treatment.
23:24
Speaker 13: An X ray photo on his ex account shows four
23:27
Speaker 13: pins in a spine, and he has five books involving
23:29
Speaker 13: chronic back pain on his reading list on his Goodreads account.
23:32
Speaker 14: So the class of twenty sixteen that only explored new
23:34
Speaker 14: frontiers but also maintained Gilman's most important traditions. I think
23:41
Speaker 14: this combination of preservation and exploration is what Gilman is
23:44
Speaker 14: all about. Gilman maintains his classic core values by cultivating minds, body,
23:49
Speaker 14: and spirit and its students, but also champions and environment
23:53
Speaker 14: of acceptance and diversity while selling in his technological endeavors.
23:58
Speaker 14: Our imagination, drawsmir ins, and our courage largely depends when
24:03
Speaker 14: your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields, and on
24:06
Speaker 14: the stage. So parents and faculty, thank you for all
24:11
Speaker 14: you have done for us today is as much an
24:13
Speaker 14: achievement for you as it is for us.
24:15
Speaker 1: That is from the Gilman School, which is a private
24:18
Speaker 1: college preparatory school for boys only costs.
24:21
Speaker 2: I think over forty grand a year.
24:24
Speaker 1: I guarantee you he wasn't bussing tables to pay that
24:27
Speaker 1: tuition bill.
24:29
Speaker 2: You know.
24:30
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensic expert and street cup.
24:36
Speaker 2: Cheryl.
24:37
Speaker 1: So often when we prosecute and investigate crimes, we see
24:42
Speaker 1: the defendant and this is not an excuse at all,
24:47
Speaker 1: comes from low income, a low education or no education,
24:53
Speaker 1: no job, and.
24:57
Speaker 2: They end up committing crimes. That's not an excuse.
25:00
Speaker 1: There is no justification for a violent crime, period. But
25:03
Speaker 1: rarely do you see an ivy league grad with multi
25:10
Speaker 1: millionaire family members commit a crime like this, And even
25:16
Speaker 1: more rare, it's when the first crime, now true, he
25:20
Speaker 1: had a Hawaii violation of going into some part of
25:25
Speaker 1: a public park that was closed off to the public.
25:27
Speaker 2: That's it.
25:29
Speaker 1: You rarely see someone go from zero to one twenty
25:33
Speaker 1: mph a premeditated murder. So you got the silver spoon
25:38
Speaker 1: and you got the zero to one twenty mph going
25:40
Speaker 1: on here.
25:41
Speaker 7: Well, let's talk about Wales. You got you got intelligence
25:43
Speaker 7: versus streets marts, which he doesn't have any which is
25:46
Speaker 7: the reason he was caught. If you look and you
25:49
Speaker 7: think of back pain, imagine severe back pain. But you're
25:54
Speaker 7: hunched over, right in a manifesto. You're hunched over building
25:58
Speaker 7: a ghost gun. You're hunched over white known bullets. You
26:02
Speaker 7: decide to take a bus which is gonna take you
26:05
Speaker 7: four times as long as you if you drove yourself,
26:08
Speaker 7: and then you're gonna hop on a freaking bicycle. It
26:11
Speaker 7: doesn't look like back pain to me. It looks like
26:14
Speaker 7: his motive is clearly in his mind. Only in my opinion.
26:21
Speaker 1: Well true, he may have been driven to distraction by
26:24
Speaker 1: the back pain, we.
26:27
Speaker 2: Know that, But murder is not Murder is not the answer.
26:33
Speaker 1: We were listening to Luigi Mangioni as the valedictorian at
26:38
Speaker 1: the Gilman School, speaking about all the values that the
26:42
Speaker 1: Gilman School maintains.
26:45
Speaker 2: This guy came from so much privileged. Listen.
26:49
Speaker 15: The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes
26:52
Speaker 15: from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew
26:56
Speaker 15: up poor as a first generation American who built a
26:59
Speaker 15: real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments.
27:02
Speaker 15: Mangoni is the cousin of a Republican Maryland House of
27:05
Speaker 15: Delegates member, Nino Mangoni. His mother, Kathleen Zan Nino Mangoni
27:09
Speaker 15: owns a travel company and his sister, Maria Santamanngoni, is
27:13
Speaker 15: a respected doctor, a medical resident at ut Southwestern Medical
27:17
Speaker 15: Center in Dallas after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School.
27:20
Speaker 3: Right now, the information we're getting from Altuna is that
27:22
Speaker 3: the gun appears to be a ghost on may have
27:26
Speaker 3: been made on a three D printer. The capability of
27:29
Speaker 3: file with firing a nine millimeters round. Obviously that will
27:31
Speaker 3: come out during all ballistics testing.
27:33
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, but now straight out
27:35
Speaker 1: to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now co
27:40
Speaker 1: host of the gold Shields podcast.
27:42
Speaker 2: Tom, I want to talk about the ghost gun.
27:45
Speaker 1: What's your experience with ghost guns and guns made from
27:48
Speaker 1: three D printers you can make when at home, you
27:52
Speaker 1: get the parts, you can even get them online.
27:54
Speaker 2: Hey, here are some photos from our friends at CNN.
27:57
Speaker 9: What do you know, Tom, Yeah, they're extremely dangerous and
28:00
Speaker 9: kind of taking over a criminality today. And the way
28:03
Speaker 9: it's done, it's really simple. You can buy a three
28:06
Speaker 9: D printer for anywhere from three hundred to three thousand
28:08
Speaker 9: dollars and literally create this is what I'm holding in
28:12
Speaker 9: front of you, the frame of a nine millimeter You
28:16
Speaker 9: can create this. It's polymer, it's plastic, and this is
28:19
Speaker 9: what's created in these three D printers. Then you go
28:24
Speaker 9: and just separately buy all the metal parts that you
28:27
Speaker 9: need to make the gun functional. Those are done and
28:31
Speaker 9: bought in kits or separately. And the problem with the
28:34
Speaker 9: ghost gun is there's no identifying marktings on it. There's
28:38
Speaker 9: no serial numbers, there's nothing.
28:39
Speaker 10: They are clean.
28:41
Speaker 2: And then when you go and.
28:41
Speaker 9: Buy the parts or the kits, those also have no
28:46
Speaker 9: identifying numbers on them or serial numbers. So that creates
28:50
Speaker 9: a very very dangerous weapon that police cannot trace when
28:54
Speaker 9: a crime is committed.
28:55
Speaker 1: Now, generally speaking, firearms or manufactured my licensed companies, and
28:59
Speaker 1: they all have serial numbers displayed on the frame of
29:02
Speaker 1: the gun.
29:03
Speaker 2: That allows cops.
29:05
Speaker 1: Like you to trace the gun back to the manufacturer,
29:08
Speaker 1: the firearms dealer, and the original purchaser.
29:12
Speaker 2: Not true with a ghost gun.
29:13
Speaker 9: Tom, No, they're absolutely untraceable. There are no identifying markings
29:18
Speaker 9: on them whatsoever.
29:20
Speaker 2: So even if you commit the crime with.
29:22
Speaker 9: It and discard it, it's still not going to come
29:24
Speaker 9: back to anything if it's recovered. Much less in this
29:27
Speaker 9: and since catching him with it, there's no traceable evidence
29:31
Speaker 9: to it, to where it came from, who manufactured it,
29:34
Speaker 9: or anything. It's going to be strictly on his statements
29:37
Speaker 9: of having that gun on him.
29:39
Speaker 2: You know, Thoma Smith.
29:40
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but not out loud to
29:43
Speaker 1: a jury, of course. But sometimes I wonder who is
29:46
Speaker 1: going about their day and.
29:48
Speaker 2: They suddenly think, Hey, I'm going to go online and
29:52
Speaker 2: I'm going.
29:52
Speaker 1: To get the parts to three D build a ghost
29:55
Speaker 1: gun with a silencer aka suppressor. Who a has time
30:02
Speaker 1: to think about building their own gun with a three
30:05
Speaker 1: D printer thinks about a suppressor aka silencer?
30:09
Speaker 2: Who does that? Why not just you have to have
30:12
Speaker 2: a gun? Why don't you just go down to the
30:15
Speaker 2: gun shop and buy one. I mean, I think I
30:17
Speaker 2: know the answer, but let me hear you tell it.
30:19
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's just it's another aspect of criminality, and it's
30:23
Speaker 9: dangerous and it's a horrible heartbreak for what's going on
30:27
Speaker 9: in this country with untraceable weapons.
30:29
Speaker 2: It's just constant.
30:31
Speaker 9: And the thing that you just said, Nancy, you can
30:34
Speaker 9: make this gun and put it together in a couple hours,
30:38
Speaker 9: by the time is dried, and you're able to break
30:40
Speaker 9: it apart in.
30:41
Speaker 2: A couple of hours.
30:42
Speaker 9: If you have the mechanical parts to it already in
30:45
Speaker 9: your possession, you can.
30:47
Speaker 1: Get these online and put them together at home.
30:50
Speaker 2: How hard is it, Tom, It's not hard at all.
30:53
Speaker 9: I mean, look at the Internet today. You can build
30:55
Speaker 9: anything step by step. All you got to do is
30:58
Speaker 9: watch a video.
30:59
Speaker 1: You know, the first one was fired back around I
31:01
Speaker 1: think around twenty thirteen.
31:03
Speaker 2: And look how they have taken over, Tom Smith.
31:06
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, you now, it's not even handguns. It's long
31:10
Speaker 9: guns as well. You can get you know, the receivers
31:13
Speaker 9: to this made and then by the other parts to
31:17
Speaker 9: a long gun now in ar or anything like that.
31:19
Speaker 9: It's taken on a world of its own, which is
31:21
Speaker 9: really dangerous.
31:30
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Harmonion Rodriguez joining US chief
31:38
Speaker 1: US reporter for deallymail dot com.
31:40
Speaker 2: Harmonia with all.
31:42
Speaker 1: The plate, the pre planning, the meticulous uh visiting the scene,
31:49
Speaker 1: going to a hostel under a fake name, getting a
31:52
Speaker 1: fake jersey ID, getting a fake passport, wearing a mask everywhere,
31:57
Speaker 1: his getaway on the bike, going through Central changing clothes
32:01
Speaker 1: SA almost out of a James Bond movie, except he
32:06
Speaker 1: kept the ghost gun, he kept the passport, he.
32:10
Speaker 2: Kept the fake ID.
32:11
Speaker 1: He kept about ten thousand dollars which he can tests
32:14
Speaker 1: cash with him and foreign currency.
32:17
Speaker 2: Is it true he still had the ghost gun on him.
32:21
Speaker 1: Correct.
32:21
Speaker 4: That's one of the interesting things about these cases. He
32:24
Speaker 4: did go through so much preparation, yet he made several
32:28
Speaker 4: mistakes that got him caught. The first one, of course,
32:30
Speaker 4: being when he pulled down his mask to flirt with
32:34
Speaker 4: an employee.
32:34
Speaker 2: At the hostel.
32:35
Speaker 4: That's how police were able to get his image, which
32:38
Speaker 4: eventually led to his arrest. And as you mentioned, he
32:42
Speaker 4: had on him at the.
32:43
Speaker 2: Time of his arrest.
32:44
Speaker 4: All these clues that then, aside from his face, of course,
32:47
Speaker 4: made it clear to police that this was their guy.
32:50
Speaker 4: I mean, he kept the same ID that police already
32:53
Speaker 4: had issued a picture of because the hostel had a
32:56
Speaker 4: picture of that fake ID from New Jersey. He also
32:59
Speaker 4: had the same sad to weapon as well as the
33:02
Speaker 4: silencer in Nancy. So yeah, a lot of preparation, but
33:06
Speaker 4: there were several things that he overlooked which eventually led
33:09
Speaker 4: to his demida.
33:10
Speaker 1: Howy you think about it, Cheryl McColl explain, It's not
33:13
Speaker 1: hard to break down a gun.
33:15
Speaker 2: Oh, the photos of the gun are from my friends
33:17
Speaker 2: at seen in Cheryl.
33:18
Speaker 1: If he could put the gun together, he couldn't think
33:20
Speaker 1: to break it down and lay various parts of it
33:23
Speaker 1: and bodies of water or different trash cans along his
33:25
Speaker 1: bus route.
33:26
Speaker 7: He was proud of this gun nancy he made it.
33:30
Speaker 7: He took the time to get the plans, to get
33:33
Speaker 7: the equipment, to get all the material. He was never
33:36
Speaker 7: going to throw that gun away. This is something that
33:39
Speaker 7: means more to him than the average person could understand.
33:43
Speaker 7: It is also associated with the biggest thing he's ever
33:46
Speaker 7: going to do in his life. He's proud of that moment.
33:50
Speaker 7: If you look again what he did, the time that
33:53
Speaker 7: he took, stay in for the ten days, building the guns,
33:57
Speaker 7: taking a bus ride, getting the monopoly money right, the manifesto,
34:02
Speaker 7: waiting on the victims. This was not something he planned
34:05
Speaker 7: in a day or week. This is something that meant
34:10
Speaker 7: a lot to him.
34:11
Speaker 1: You know, Jason Oceans, we are now looking toward extradition. Extradition.
34:18
Speaker 1: I've handled one hundred of them. They take about ten minutes.
34:21
Speaker 1: It's not about finding guilt or innocence. Extradition it can
34:25
Speaker 1: be from another state, like from Pennsylvania in this case,
34:28
Speaker 1: to New York.
34:28
Speaker 2: It can be from Mexico or Paris to the US.
34:32
Speaker 2: If we've got an extradition treaty, but nobody's saying did
34:36
Speaker 2: you do this? There's no jury trial. It's just very simple.
34:40
Speaker 1: It's a are you Luigi Mangioni? And TOI are you
34:45
Speaker 1: the Luigi Mangioni named? And this warrant for your arrest?
34:49
Speaker 8: That's all it is, right, It's just you have some
34:53
Speaker 8: speedy trial issue issues that come into play in terms
34:57
Speaker 8: of extradition, and from the time that you have, you know,
35:00
Speaker 8: a suspect in custody, and so that's exactly as you said,
35:03
Speaker 8: that's in play now. Simple extradition and YPD detectives will
35:08
Speaker 8: take them.
35:09
Speaker 4: I don't know that he'll object.
35:10
Speaker 8: It doesn't make any sense to it just prolongs the
35:14
Speaker 8: process and they bring them.
35:14
Speaker 1: To New York. Here's a technical legal term. I don't
35:17
Speaker 1: know if they taught you this at your law school,
35:19
Speaker 1: but a lot of times in extradition hearings you run
35:23
Speaker 1: into a world class a whole and they just won't
35:28
Speaker 1: agree to extradition then rather languish. In this case, Pennsylvania
35:33
Speaker 1: CI in Huntington as opposed to facing the music in
35:38
Speaker 1: New York it's going to happen. All you have to
35:41
Speaker 1: do is get a fingerprint and go. He is not
35:43
Speaker 1: telling us, but this is Luigi Mangioni, and he is
35:47
Speaker 1: the Luigi Maanngioni in this warrant. That's a solid is
35:50
Speaker 1: this two questions? But sometimes because the defendant is an
35:55
Speaker 1: a whole technical legal term, they won't agree. So you
35:59
Speaker 1: just send them back to the zielta. You get the fingerprint,
36:01
Speaker 1: and you say, enjoy your stale.
36:03
Speaker 2: Sandwich exactly, And you're sitting County not assigned a prison
36:08
Speaker 2: cell in a group setting.
36:11
Speaker 8: At that point, take the extradition and deal with the
36:14
Speaker 8: notoriety and at least perhaps you'll have your own cell
36:17
Speaker 8: instead of being in a group.
36:18
Speaker 2: It's about all he's got.
36:19
Speaker 4: Looking forward to him.
36:20
Speaker 1: You are hearing Jason Oshins, who has handled many, many
36:23
Speaker 1: extradition hearings, but now listening to Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.
36:29
Speaker 3: We're going to have to work that out with the
36:30
Speaker 3: Manhattan District Attorney's office in Altuna, Pennsylvania. He's going to
36:34
Speaker 3: be facing gun charges there, and at some point we'll
36:36
Speaker 3: work out through extradition to bring him back to New
36:38
Speaker 3: York to face charges here. Working with the Manhattan District
36:41
Speaker 3: Attorney's Office.
36:42
Speaker 15: Luigi Mangoni has been ordered held without bail and does
36:45
Speaker 15: not enter a plea. In his first court appearance in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania,
36:49
Speaker 15: Manjoni is escorted to his preliminary arrayment in handcuffs, with
36:53
Speaker 15: multiple police officers from different departments walking with him, as
36:56
Speaker 15: he is facing five charges, including one fellony kount of
36:59
Speaker 15: forgery and one fella he kind of carrying a firearm
37:01
Speaker 15: without a license. Manjoni is the loan person of interest
37:05
Speaker 15: in the brazen murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson
37:08
Speaker 15: in Manhattan last week, but he's not charged with that crime.
37:12
Speaker 1: I'm sure defense attorney Jason Ohs doesn't want to hear this,
37:14
Speaker 1: but Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor forensics. He stated,
37:18
Speaker 1: very plainly, Hey, you know what, I respect the FBI.
37:22
Speaker 1: You guys have done so much for our country. Let
37:24
Speaker 1: me just save you some time. I acted alone. He's
37:27
Speaker 1: perfectly coherent. So, Joe Scott, here's my question. What do
37:31
Speaker 1: you think will be the single most important evidence in
37:35
Speaker 1: this case? And I'm guessing it's going to be forensics.
37:37
Speaker 10: Yeah, it will be, But I think maybe in a
37:40
Speaker 10: different area. It's going to be electronic forensics. Let's think
37:42
Speaker 10: about what we have. He's going to be tracked moving
37:45
Speaker 10: along now that we know who this guy is, his
37:48
Speaker 10: movements on the bus line, did he have multiple phones?
37:52
Speaker 10: Did he have an actual phone that had his name
37:55
Speaker 10: attached to it as well as a burner phone that
37:57
Speaker 10: maybe was tracked concurrently with the burner phone. Also, you know,
38:03
Speaker 10: we haven't talked a lot about Brian Thompson here. What
38:08
Speaker 10: did this guy do to stalk him? You know, we
38:11
Speaker 10: go back to this idea that he knew he was
38:13
Speaker 10: in Manhattan, that he knew he was at this meeting.
38:17
Speaker 10: Is his history digital history going to have a big
38:21
Speaker 10: reveal about this relative to him following him day to day?
38:26
Speaker 10: Did he ever actually make any trips to Minneapolis to
38:29
Speaker 10: kind of inspect that area. That's going to be a
38:31
Speaker 10: big part of this is putting all of this together.
38:34
Speaker 10: I think that, yeah, the ballistics are unique, I think
38:39
Speaker 10: if you can even attach it, But I think one
38:42
Speaker 10: of the biggest, biggest pieces of evidence here is all
38:46
Speaker 10: of this electronic data that's going to come into play.
38:49
Speaker 10: And also, don't forget this, Nancy, he has a real
38:53
Speaker 10: understanding and a real love for Ai. We've seen this
38:56
Speaker 10: throughout throughout his social media post the life that he lived,
39:02
Speaker 10: his bachelor's and master's degree in computer science. H the
39:08
Speaker 10: three D ghost gun. You know, he's familiar with that.
39:11
Speaker 10: That's a big part of new technology and just being
39:14
Speaker 10: able to generate false IDs, all of that along the
39:18
Speaker 10: way is going to be a big, big dagger in
39:21
Speaker 10: the heart for him.
39:22
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. You know what, let me just give you
39:24
Speaker 2: an example.
39:25
Speaker 1: The ghost gun, fore's sake, is the sing most important
39:28
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. I tie it with a fingerprint.
39:32
Speaker 7: The single most important piece of evidence to me is
39:34
Speaker 7: we've got him on freaking video commit murder. Everything else
39:38
Speaker 7: is going to be tied to it. The gun, the clothing, fingerprint,
39:42
Speaker 7: everything else is coming DNA.
39:44
Speaker 1: Single, single, single most important piece video and quickly to
39:48
Speaker 1: Hermania Rodriguez Dailymail dot Com. What happens now, we're just
39:52
Speaker 1: waiting on the extradition hearing.
39:54
Speaker 2: Correct.
39:54
Speaker 4: So he's supposed to appear in court again in Pennsylvania today,
39:58
Speaker 4: and now the process of extradition moves along. Charges have
40:01
Speaker 4: already been filed in New York, so we don't have
40:04
Speaker 4: to wait for him to be physically in New York
40:06
Speaker 4: for that. But now that process starts and we are
40:08
Speaker 4: yet to hear what his defense is going to be.
40:11
Speaker 4: Is he going to oppose extradition as you mentioned, and
40:15
Speaker 4: that's what's going to start now the legal process and
40:18
Speaker 4: all this evidence is going to emerge.
40:20
Speaker 1: Tonight we honor two American heroes. Number one, the so
40:26
Speaker 1: called elderly patron having his or her coffee at a McDonald's,
40:32
Speaker 1: just like every single morning, who took it upon themselves,
40:36
Speaker 1: whether they knew it or not, to risk their.
40:38
Speaker 2: Lives to catch an alleged killer.
40:43
Speaker 1: We discussed earlier how very often arrests go sideways, much
40:48
Speaker 1: less the arrest of a violent criminal who's carrying a
40:52
Speaker 1: loaded ghost gun. And also hero Tyler fry A beat Cup,
40:59
Speaker 1: a patrol officer in Altoona PD. He knew he was
41:04
Speaker 1: going to apprehend the health boss assassin as he has
41:09
Speaker 1: been called. Did he shrink back, No, he strode in
41:15
Speaker 1: and he made the arrest.
41:16
Speaker 2: By the book. If it weren't for.
41:19
Speaker 1: Those two individuals, Brian Thompson's two boys may never have answers,
41:29
Speaker 1: but tonight they do. Thank you to that patron at
41:35
Speaker 1: McDonald's and to patrol Officer Tyler Frye.
41:40
Speaker 2: We wait for justice. Two unfold.
41:42
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,