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Confidence That Survives Change · Divas That Care Network

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's Divas that Care Radio.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Stories, strategies, and ideas to inspire positive change.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Divas That Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is a global movement for women, by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: To find out more about the movement, visit divas that care.com after the show.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Confidence in Bloom, the podcast where we explore what it really means to build confidence from the inside out.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking about something so many women experience but don't always have words for.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when life changes, but your sense of who you are hasn't quite caught up.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's moving to a new country, changing careers, stepping into a new season of life, or simply realizing the path you've been on no longer fits, those transitions can leave even the most accomplished women questioning their voice, their value, and their confidence.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Anka Naogi, founder of Silver Smoke Coaching, a clinical hypnotherapist and NLP master practitioner with a remarkable journey.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Originally trained as a chemical engineer, Anka spent more of her than two decades working internationally in senior roles across the oil and gas industry before following a completely different calling into coaching and behavioral change.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: What I love about Anka's perspective is that she reminds us confidence isn't about becoming louder or taking up more space.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's about staying connected to your knowledge, your values, and your dignity, especially when life feels uncertain.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Anka, welcome to Confidence in Bloom.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to have you here today.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Tina.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to be here.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even though this is my first podcast.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I have a bit of um anxiety or nerves, but uh your um reassurance, reassuring presence makes uh makes a big difference.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I tell my guests to bring a coffee or a tea, right?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we are going to just have a cup, we're just gonna have a discussion.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're don't you know try to forget that we're recording anything, okay?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what we're gonna start with.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now you your story is anything but convention conventional.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: You built a successful international career as an engineer before becoming a hypnotherapist and a coach.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: What was happening internally that made you realize that this is the time to follow a different path?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know that on paper um this seems like uh an enormous leap.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh and yes, I I did train as a chemical engineer and I worked in um oil and gas uh for many, many years in corporate environments as well as in manufacturing sites.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now, lo and behold, I changed to NLP and hypnotherapy and overall uh coaching.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but from inside, this this change seems uh more continuous.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because you see, engineering taught me to um look for patterns, uh, causes, systems, and uh what is actually producing an outcome.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, as an engineer you do work with uh processes and systems um and with scientific data, however, um you work with something else um which I found it way more fascinating, and that is the human system.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I saw during my uh years um in corporate and engineering very, very capable people who knew exactly what they were doing, um, and yet under pressure um they would suddenly become hesitant, defensive, silent, or even overwhelmed.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I became very much interested in analyzing the gap that sits between what someone knows and what they can actually produce or access, if you want, uh, in a particular moment.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um by training as a hypnotherapist uh and mainly as uh NLP, which stands for um neurolinguistic programming, um, gave me another set of tools with which I could explore the gap.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I can say that although unconventional, the engineer in me never quite disappeared.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she just changed the angles and became uh more interested in something that I think is far more fascinating, and that is the human being.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that was an important part of the reinvention.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we don't really start from zero, uh, we start from experience.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that is so true, and I love how you said that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I don't really know a whole lot about engineering and the process that you go through, but I have always been like fascinated at why humans do what they do, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like how what creates the interests in me, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do I want to do that?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I want to say that?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why, why does she do that?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you know what I mean?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean like in general behavior as well as in work, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, like you know, you you're under pressure, and now these people are they're overwhelmed or they, you know, they they disappear in one way or another.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: What makes you do that?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And what I've learned in coaching, there's things that we go through, like we experience through life, and our brain, our nervous system, we they get stored.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they come out, right, that's how they if they it affects our behaviors when we're under pressure, or you know, we do things that you know, consciously we would think that's like so wrong, but unconsciously, right, our body wants to do them.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's interesting to hear you say that, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because NLP, I mean, this is a tool that we use.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: You and I both use the same tools to do our coaching to get our clients from you know where they are today to where they want to be tomorrow.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's yeah, yeah, the body is amazing, it's amazing how we store and reflect, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree with you.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree with you, and I love that you brought in the unconscious because um as a scientist, as a as a you know, um a person who dealt with data and um evidence, um, that was a big uh pivoting moment for me because there is no evidence.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: There is no evidence that unconscious the unconscious exists, however, it is there, and it appears, it controls everything we do, whether we realize or not.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree with you.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, we have all these patterns that we store, and when when we go under pressure, um, I think the unconscious takes over, and you just respond in a way that you've learned um that once upon a time, back in the past, that pattern helped you survive.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, you are a different person now.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: We we constantly change, uh um, and that pattern might no longer be useful.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: However, unless we realize that it's no longer useful, we keep employing it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where many people find themselves stuck.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um it's it's always easier to be um to do a critical analysis of what's outside you, and it's always harder to do a critical analysis in inside um of what's going on inside you.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're that objective.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I have another comment, another opinion about why capable people sometimes lose their voice under pressure.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you know, knowing something and expressing that something are sometimes completely different things.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, put someone in front of a senior executive.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Heck, I've been there for so many times in my career.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, ask or or ask them to perform in a second language.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly, uh, and I'm talking about what I've noticed with about myself, you know, I had to present um a proposal in front of um the CEO or in front of uh of the manager of the refinery, and suddenly I found myself that part of my attention wasn't there anymore.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking, am I saying this correctly?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do they think I'm stupid?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how am I coming across?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is he smiling?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Does this mean he's good or bad?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the person um is not less acknowledgeable, but I you just become you pay less attention, you know, your attention becomes divided.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I really believe um uh confidence, it's not about adding something to somebody, but it might mean remove that noise, that interference that between the person and what they already know together and package that together uh with becoming aware of the patterns that we deploy unconsciously and keep us stuck sometimes.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love that because that's that's like the intimidation, right?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're you feel like you're in this low position, and now I have to present to the CEO or to the manager who they're in, they're a bigger person than me, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: How can I impress them, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Little me, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: I get that, I get that, and I know like I know we don't want to get too much into how NLP works, but NLP is a tool that we can help with those barriers, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we can have it's not just for things like that, it can help with public speaking, we can help with you know anything that you feel that you cannot do, right?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell so I've been to a couple weddings this year, and I've heard people say that I can't get up in front of all these people and you know, give a toast or say a speech, or and I'm like, actually you can, and you can because you know, you can if you tell yourself that I can't do it, we won't do it, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna believe that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: But if you keep telling yourself, right, yes, I can do it, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: You will eventually, well, it doesn't happen right away, but you can do it, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you're done, you're like, oh, look at that, I did it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're you're spot on there, and um and I would like to to mention something else, which I think it's also um quite quite important, um especially for my context and for what I'm focusing at the moment.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have moved countries, I have uh relocated myself, starting with moving from my birth country, which is um Eastern Europe, Romania, to Australia and uh becoming uh a proud adopted Australian.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think uh people underestimate how contextual confidence can be.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um because when you move countries, you you not only that you can lose your fluency, but also you lose your referential, you lose your bearings.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing is familiar.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: You are you are you are you can be fluent in a language and still you have to ask questions about how to perform basic um tasks.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't sometimes you don't even understand the humor.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: We we people really underestimate contexts.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the reason I'm saying this is because what I focus at the moment is helping, especially healthcare professionals who are not uh English speakers, like native speakers, who want to um broaden their experience and relocate in a different country where they will practice mainly in English.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and because of my experience and background, I'm especially focusing on healthcare professionals who want to work in the Middle East, and they have to see the licensing exam, which happens to be in English.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's incredible how very competent healthcare professionals come across as uh less knowledgeable uh when in fact it's not the case.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just they they are struggling to perform uh to their full potential in um in a second language, in a different culture, uh, and to navigate a completely new environment.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where um I fit in and I'm helping them with the uh preparing for the exam, but as well as communicating under pressure and learning the ropes of a new environment.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, honestly, I think that that's really super admirable because here in Canada we have many immigrants from India.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I mean, I remember stories of our parents, you know, like you know, my parents immigrated here from Europe.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I think of what they had to suffer with and how I see these new immigrants, it cannot be easy.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, luckily for them, from what I see, many of them speak English.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they have a heavy accent, but they speak English.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So someone like that you're working with, where they might not speak much English, they just, you know, might know the basics.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have they have to write a test or they have to read a paper that's all English, that has to be super difficult for them.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: But they have someone like you who's amazingly patient and able to explain all of that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: That because that's what you're doing, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're explaining how the agreement works, what what it requires of them.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, well, I basically um teach them how to um how to how to interview a patient, for example.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you have that conversation in a different language?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I do not focus on teaching them vocabulary or grammar, I focus on teaching them chunks of language that they can retrieve uh instantly.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, I'm moving the knowledge from their conscious mind into their unconscious mind.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my favorite example for them is when I ask you in English, how are you?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: What do you answer?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they always say, I'm fine, thank you.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I ask them, Well, did you think about it?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or it came automatically?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Well, it came automatically.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, you know, that's how you're gonna have to learn these chunks of language to interview a patient.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, they will have to learn, but it's not about learning language rules.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: It about is about giving them chunks of language that will help them interview a patient or sit and interview with an employer, and um facilit this these chunks of language facilitate for them to present their true knowledge.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because you know, um, when someone has a back pain, a back pain is a back pain, regardless of the language.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So once you know what to ask, you will know how to treat and you will know what to do.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and humans are fantastic at communicating when they really want to, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when they really believe that they can.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, what I'm trying to teach them is that to believe in them, to find that confidence in a different context, and to make sure that they can.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, it's a it's a two-pronged approach, if you wanna, if I may say so.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I teach the language part, and I also teach the um the um workings behind acquiring a language, how it is to be confident, uh, be in the correct state.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you go into an exam and you are scared, you won't be able to retrieve the language, the knowledge because you'll be scared.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you move, how do you change your state from anxiety into a state that facilitates you uh passing that exam?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is where uh part of what I've learned through NLP, what I've learned through hypnosis, and what I've learned as um as a Celta uh qualified instructor, which is a Cambridge certification to teach English as a second language for adults.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: They all come together and um I uh I'm doing my best to help my clients um actually achieve their dream life because if you think about it, the exam is just a door, it's a door to a new life, a new experience.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like so the difference between like you're teaching your clients the difference between speaking with confidence and simply just sounding confident, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think what you've you you kind of explained there is you can still be quiet, have a powerful voice, right, and know the difference, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's what what we tapped at the very beginning.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of what you said, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: We can still, you know, we don't have to be quiet or loud.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to, I guess it's more you said, we don't have to be loud to be heard, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: We can be quiet and still be heard.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what you're saying you teach your clients to have.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I think I think um I think you're very making a very good point there, Tina.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna do my best to to answer that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And let me know if you believe I'm answering the question.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do not think confidence means walking into every room convinced that you are the cleverest or most impressive person there.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: That to me, that's performative confidence.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: For me, genuine confidence is much closer to self-trust.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that is that is a great subject to talk about, let me tell you.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, because as women, I believe a lot of us, and I'm included, uh, I'm talking for myself.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I struggled for years with self-trust, and I'm still uh doing an LP on myself to get myself into the right state to um to nurture self-trust.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think self-trust means knowing that you can say, I don't know, you know, or you can ask a question, or you can simply disagree, or even make a mistake.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm okay, you know, when you when you when you find the peace in being okay with being challenged, and you know um you have the knowledge that you can recover.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that that this is when you actually um have real confidence.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Performative confidence, in my opinion, needs to look certain.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Real confidence, I believe it can tolerate uncertainty.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I think.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think I agree.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I believe, you know, confidence is not knowing that everything will go well.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: We both know that very rarely in life everything goes really, really well.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe confidence is about trusting yourself uh that you will find the right response or you'll know where to find the right response uh in those moments when things don't go very well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right, it's and that's yeah, that comes from self-free.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Self-trust, right?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, there's you know, you can go through, you know, this person told me this, or that this person, or I read this, but the truth is experience, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like your own, like I went through this, I didn't know what I was doing, but I did it anyway, and I learned, I learned from it, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I have to agree with you.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk a little bit about boundaries.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, please.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think it fits in with the whole self-trust, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I find women have a hard time setting and and really um implementing boundaries, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and as a woman, I feel like they're very they can be uncomfortable, right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I find women because because women always want to please others.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: How would you communicate a boundary clearly without becoming defensive or aggressive or the best one?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this is my thing, is carrying guilt, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I set a boundary, I, you know, okay, that's it, I'm not doing this anymore.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then I feel guilty about it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you manage that?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's a very interesting question, and and um it can be very um confronting in many ways.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll and I'll tell you how I see it.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and please feel free to interrupt me anytime you see fit.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I believe this brings in uh back, this brings us back to the discussion of patterns, because I think there is another dimension to to finding to putting healthy boundaries around you, and that is goes hand in hand with finding your voice.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: You see, um, women, um, we can spend an extraordinary amount of time and amount of our lives by being accommodating because these were the patterns that we were taught.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we absorbed, sometimes explicitly, and sometimes simply through what we see around us.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we we were trained to be the good daughter, the good wife, the good mother.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have we always make sure that everybody is okay, we notice moods, we remember the birthdays, we keep the household running, we support the husband.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, we make sure we have the right body, we look attractive, the house is immaculate, housework is done, food is fantastic, kids are perfect, and somewhere um in between all of this, uh, apparently we should build a brilliant career.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is the patterns that we've been taught to um enact and reenact over and over and over.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: We become extraordinarily competent at meeting everybody else's needs, but the danger is, in my opinion, that you become so accomplished in accommodating that you lose sight of who you really are.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: You lose sight of the person that does all this accommodating.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I've done my uh child rearing years, and um I I stopped asking, what do I want?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: What do I enjoy?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I choose?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I choose?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I choose, not in terms of partner, but who do I choose in terms of who I want to spend my productive hours with?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do I choose when when nobody wants anything from me?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's that's a quite confronting, a confronting question.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, um, you know, I don't believe caring for other people diminishing it is something that diminishes us.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think love, family, motherhood are are very meaningful and very rewarding parts of life, but there is a difference for choosing um between choosing to care for people and gradual disappearing into this, into the role.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is when the pattern brings the guilt, you know.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Compromise is part of all the relationships, but self-erasure should not be.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why when we speak up, we might feel uh guilty because we think we're selfish, you know.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why uh guilt does not necessarily mean that you're doing something we're doing something wrong.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes it simply means that you have violated an old rule about who you are supposed to be, you know.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um feeling guilty about a good point.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good point.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that I've done something wrong, but I feel like I've overstepped what I normally do.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, that's why feeling guilty, in my opinion, feeling guilty about a boundary, it does not necessarily mean that the boundary is wrong.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it just may mean that the boundary is either an old boundary that we overstepped or that the boundary is new.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And also, boundaries they do not have to be aggressive, you know.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've we've learned in NLP that all emotions are useful.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, anger is important because anger makes you pay attention when something is not right about your environment.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: For example, a boundary being breached.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: However, a boundary does not need anger in order to be legitimate, you know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um a boundary, it's it's it's we we confuse a boundary with an instruction at times.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a boundary is really what I am willing to participate in.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what I tolerate and or what I want to do, you know.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it can sound incredibly ordinary, such as um, I don't think I can do this.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm happy to discuss this, but not when we're shouting.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a boundary, isn't it?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, um, I I can have this ready by Friday, but I cannot take both pieces of work.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a different boundary.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also, as women, I think we're terrific at communicating the boundaries um and whilst diminishing ourselves.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I was the queen of apologizing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm so sorry.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this might be stupid.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, um it's just an idea.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've always felt that if I say I can't do this and I don't put, I'm so sorry, I'm aggressive or too demanding, or or I can't raise up to the challenge.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, sometimes finding our voices and setting our boundaries can can start with something extraordinary small.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just saying a sentence without apologizing for it first.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would uh tell our listeners, because I've done it, uh, for one day, just notice how often you are using words like just to make your opinion, your request, or your contribution smaller.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just count the justs.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's that's interesting.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so just out of curiosity, what what would you say that you know using that word just impli implicates?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like what are like what are we saying or what are we not saying when we say I just want you to know, or I just want to know?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe I don't know.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: It could be, for example, um mind reading, you know.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it could be um I'm using just to diminish my request or to soften it, because I'm thinking that if I don't use it and if I don't soften it, um some the my the person I'm talking to will think that I would be difficult or demanding.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's mind-reading.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or um, for instance, um, you know, it's what uh call NLP calls loss performative.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I shouldn't ask for too much, therefore, I'm using just it's just a small comment, yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to take the whole room, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you're diminishing your own personality to make someone else feel that they have a little bit more like um presence, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or control.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe this fits into the pattern of being the good girl, pleasing everybody, being nice, you know, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I over the years, I mean, you and I are similar in age.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, we've we've both have adult children, we see the difference, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like we know that there's a time when we all sort of we we keep our our voice more quiet so that everyone else can have their say.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I notice myself, like it's and I I don't think my kids are spoiled, but what I do notice is now they think that they know more than me, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and I'm not saying that they don't know more than me, because it's very possible that they can know more than me, but they don't have experience the way I have it, right?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: I have 30 years on them.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what they learn in life, I will always have 30 years more of life.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And when I, you know, sometimes the way they talk to me, I think, I think I created this, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I allowed them to believe that they will always have the upper hand with me, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I noticed the way they talk to me, and so now I, you know, I shut them down.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I've had enough of that, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Either you keep it quiet or you know, this conversation is over because you know, I'm still a human, right?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if you talk to me like that, you better not be talking to other people like that, right?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's it's disrespectful and it's all the things.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I notice that now, like now I see it.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't see it when they were growing up, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe now because of all the personal development work that I've been doing, I'm able to see it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe I talk to my mom like that and I don't notice it.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I think as a woman, I think that that's a normal thing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have to like allow the voice to come up.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: We have to allow that self-trust, right?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to, we are allowed to be confident.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: We are people, we are humans, we deserve to be here.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree with you, and I think you named exactly um the difference.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: They they may have knowledge, they have more, they may have more knowledge, but knowledge is not experience, and sometimes knowing something does not necessarily that you take into account all the parameters that can change constantly at any time, and we know it because we have the experience, we don't know how they change, but we've learned through trial and error that we always need to make allowance for contingency and for a change of plans, and sometimes that knowledge may not be sufficient.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you may need to know where to find different knowledge that maybe you don't have.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I agree with you about the voice.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it's also I I I believe that it also comes with the age.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you go back when we were in our 20s and we felt invincible, and we were yeah, yeah, we were with yeah, and we were willing to take chances without really calculating the consequences.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but life has a funny way of of filing that away and makes way to a moment when you meet your own mortality and you learn that you're not invincible.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe, yes, we need to have a voice for our children, which is the hardest thing to have.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've learned that when I use my quiet voice is when they listen.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that, but but it is, you know.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um but also I believe we also need to make sure that we are there to to offer shelter when they bruise when they bruise their wings in their young flight of their life.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's what I think when they become adults.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I agree with you 100% there.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask you if there is someone listening to us today and they believe that they've invested maybe too many years into their career or that they're too old to reinvent themselves, what would you want these women to know about changing a direction without losing herself?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would tell these women to begin through listening because um we spend decades in a noisy environment.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: The house is noisy, there are demands, we raise the children, everybody's schedules, everybody's needs, and then one day um you wake up in a quiet house, and the society has found a rather charming little phrase for it: empty nester.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds almost cozy, doesn't it?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: But emptiness can be also frightening and overwhelming.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: However, emptiness brings silence, and in the quiet, in the absence of what's for lunch, mom?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where is my sports gear, mom?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hun, do you know where I've put my fill-in the blanks?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other questions might start become louder.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I now?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: What am I interested in when I'm not organizing someone else's life?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And also, what happened to the woman that I was before becoming all these things to all these people in my life?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I want to do with the years that I still have ahead of me?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because um, you know, sometimes this can feel like grief, but once you get over that and you you have the courage to put it on paper, um, maybe something wonderful would come up.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you figure out that you are ready to change direction.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you change your career, it's frightening because you know uh you have an external validation somehow.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: When you say, I'm an when I was saying, Oh, I what do you do?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm an engineer, nobody would question that, isn't it?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're an engineer, and that's okay.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: But external validation, but when you start changing your domain to a complete opposite side, you become a beginner, and that means accepting that some people may not understand um what I'm doing now versus what I was doing then, and maybe they will not consider it as legitimate or as valuable as the identity that I had before, and and that is something that will occur.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what I would tell our our listeners that are really willing to take the plunge, I would say do it, but be realistic in what you can do, and um be patient with yourself and find that that confidence that means trusting in yourself, and just you know, don't think about it as a huge mountain that needs to be conquered, approach it step by step, day by day.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Work work at it and work away every day.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Consistency is the clue and the key.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, do it, absolutely do it, because you don't want to wake up 20 years later with the regret, I could have done it and I didn't, or with a question, how would have my life turned out to be only if I would have?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, do it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe we need to maintain um we need to gauge the reality.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am I am 58, yeah.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm going to tell you that I will become the next um ski best uh down ski um person skier.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, downhill skier, um, I would be fooling myself.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I first of all, I don't know how to ski, but even if I learn, I'm 58.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe maybe I can do stuff to keep myself fit, but my joints still know that I'm 58.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: No amount of cosmetic surgery is gonna change that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, right, no, right.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So be realistic in in your dream.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's okay to have a wonderful dream and might sound like a fantasy, but try and adapt it to your reality.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not the dream you had in your 20s, it doesn't mean that it can't be a a different one, maybe better, maybe maybe something wonderful will come out of you know, small tweaks here and there.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Anka.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: This has been so amazing, and I love the reminder that confidence isn't just about becoming someone or something different, it's about trusting the person you've been and what who you're becoming all along, right?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that you brought that up.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for having me.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure, Tina.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to our listeners uh for taking the time to pay attention to our conversation.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: To everyone listening, if today's conversation resonated with you, I hope you'll take a moment to reflect on where you may have been making yourself smaller, staying silent, or questioning your own value.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the next step isn't becoming more, it's remembering who you already are.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you'd like to learn more about Anka and her work, be sure to connect with her through Silver Smoke Coaching.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: If this conversation has stirred something in you and you're finding yourself in a season of transition, questioning your confidence, or ready to reconnect with your inner wisdom, I'd love to support you too.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Through my coaching, I help women move from overthinking and self-doubt to greater clarity, confidence, and self-trust one intentional step at a time.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for spending time with us here on Confidence and Bloom.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, share it with a friend who needs to hear this message, and remember, confidence doesn't bloom because life is easy.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: It blooms because you choose to keep growing.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep blooming.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: This show was brought to you by Divas That Care.
• 43:23
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