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Feel Your Way with Arkadiy Volkov · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gamiferson
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Speaker 1: and I interview incredible people who share the story of
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Speaker 1: how trauma has shaped their lives. And a big thank
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Speaker 1: you for sponsoring today's episode goes to my guest and
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Speaker 1: our sponsors. So five, four, three, two and one, our folks,
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Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have as
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Speaker 1: my guest today. Arkadi volkov Ar Kati Welcome.
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Speaker 2: Thank great. I appreciate being here. Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 1: You are welcome. Cutti is a registered psychotherapist and the
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Speaker 1: founder of Fuel Your Way Therapy, private practice in Toronto,
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Speaker 1: specializing in trauma informed care. After a decade long career
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Speaker 1: as lawyer, Arkati made a personal and professional transformation, shifting
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Speaker 1: into psychotherapy to help people heal from anxiety, trauma, and
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Speaker 1: relationship challenges. At Fuli Waight Therapy, he leads a team
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Speaker 1: of therapists who work with individuals, couples, children and families
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Speaker 1: using approaches such as emotional focus Therapy MDR DBT, among others.
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Speaker 1: His work has rooted in an attachment theory and believe
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Speaker 1: that healing happens through safe, attuned connection. All Right, Arkati
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Speaker 1: obviously just a little bit about you before we going
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Speaker 1: share with the listeners where you're from originally and where
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Speaker 1: you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Originally I am from Russia. I was born in
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Speaker 2: the very north of Russia in Mormansk. Then I grew
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Speaker 2: up in Moscow and I moved to Canada six years ago.
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Speaker 2: So currently I am in Toronto, in Ontario.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so lawyer. Some might think of those as opposite
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Speaker 1: ends of a continuum sense. What how did things evolve
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Speaker 1: for you such that you were like, so, like, I'm
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Speaker 1: no more lawyer, I need to become a therapy How
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Speaker 1: does that happen? What happened?
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Speaker 2: I often wonder about that myself. I guess one was
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Speaker 2: one of those probably millions of people right end up
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Speaker 2: with a kind of career with the vacation without really
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Speaker 2: knowing where they would end up when they chose the past.
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Speaker 2: First law was read something that appealed to me or
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Speaker 2: seemed attractive. But once I got my first monsters and
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Speaker 2: I started working within a couple of years, I just
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Speaker 2: realized that it was not the best fit for me
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Speaker 2: in terms of what was interesting for me, what I
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Speaker 2: wanted to do, and maybe I wasn't the best lawyer
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Speaker 2: there is, but still I went on to do that
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Speaker 2: for around ten years.
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Speaker 1: But where was that cutting?
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Speaker 2: Yeah that was back in Moscow. Yeah, that was in Russia.
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Speaker 2: I worked for a bunch of companies to doing all
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Speaker 2: sorts of things for a commerce, real estate investments, which
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Speaker 2: I actually then started to appreciate once I started my
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Speaker 2: private practice because that knowledge of the business world and
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Speaker 2: the way things run from that more logistical and business perspective,
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Speaker 2: that really helped. But at that time that just seemed
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Speaker 2: something to get away from as fast as they could,
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Speaker 2: And I got my second masters in consul and psychology
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Speaker 2: while working, went for an evening program and completed that.
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Speaker 2: Over several years, I kept working as a lawyer full time,
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Speaker 2: but I started gradually adding trainings to my education, started
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Speaker 2: seeing some clients as a part time job, and over
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Speaker 2: the years that expertise build that experience which then helped
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Speaker 2: me to transition to therapy full time once I came
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Speaker 2: to Canada.
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Speaker 1: So the field of law, being a lawyer has a
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Speaker 1: certain cachet here in America, and I'm guessing it's kind
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Speaker 1: of in Toronto as well. It also has a certain
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Speaker 1: perception about it, some negative as well. Is it the
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Speaker 1: same in Russia.
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Speaker 2: I'd say that little profession, yeah, is more or less
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Speaker 2: the same all over the world, from at least from
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Speaker 2: what I know. I've met lawyers from all over Europe,
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Speaker 2: from the US, from Canada, first as colleagues, then actually
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Speaker 2: as clients, and I realized that that profession puts a
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Speaker 2: very similar pressure or its members all over the world.
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Speaker 2: And yeah, this kind of perception of how the profession works,
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Speaker 2: I think is very similar. That's another thing that I
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Speaker 2: started to appreciate about my work experience in the legal
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Speaker 2: fields because I find, at least I hope that I
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Speaker 2: can relate to people who work as lawyers and understand
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Speaker 2: their challenges. There's a lot of burner, there's a lot
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Speaker 2: of stress, there is a lot of anxiety, and a
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Speaker 2: lot of isolation because it's seldomly talked about, probably not
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Speaker 2: the first thing that comes to your mind when you
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Speaker 2: think of someone working as a lawyer.
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Speaker 1: So what you said, you practiced for ten years, that's
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Speaker 1: a long time. What was it What started to happen
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Speaker 1: where you were like, huh uh, I need to shift?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, very similar to that. Actually, I think I've always
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Speaker 2: known that I had an interest for just the way
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Speaker 2: our mind works. And first it was just to study
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Speaker 2: in philosophy, studying history of thought to be drawn towards
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Speaker 2: art and the way we can represent ourselves through so
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Speaker 2: many creative outlets. And I first thought that it would
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Speaker 2: just read something that interests me, and I can just
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Speaker 2: keep at a hobby while doing something else. But I
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Speaker 2: think as I worked, I just came to listen to
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Speaker 2: myself and understand that, yeah, I can come trually split,
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Speaker 2: that I come to be someone else as a full
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Speaker 2: time job and then leave who I really am for
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Speaker 2: later for some hours in the evenings on the weekends,
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Speaker 2: and I started to look for somewhere where I could
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Speaker 2: actually just be myself. I think that's what that was
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Speaker 2: about for me. And I didn't know anything about therapy
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Speaker 2: at that point. I didn't know not much about psychology
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Speaker 2: even and I was looking for something that would resonate,
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Speaker 2: that would appeal to doing my research. I stumbled upon
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Speaker 2: a program in council psychology, and the more I read
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Speaker 2: about that, the more recognized that, yeah, that's actually what
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Speaker 2: I want to do. And then the more I started,
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Speaker 2: the more I then practiced, and still with each session
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Speaker 2: I have, I just realized that, yeah, that's exactly what
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Speaker 2: probably was meant to do it. Even putting it that
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Speaker 2: a way, that's not.
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Speaker 1: A little realization. I mean, you know, I want to
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Speaker 1: find something that resonates more with me. That's huge. A
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Speaker 1: lot of us go years without asking that question, without
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Speaker 1: hearing that knocking on the door in a sense, because
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Speaker 1: we have bills to pay, right, people we need to
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Speaker 1: appeal to or whatever. And my guess is correct me
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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. But sometimes it's even harder to
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Speaker 1: do that when you're in a field which many would
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Speaker 1: say really doesn't even honor that type of awareness. Is
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Speaker 1: that is that fair to.
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Speaker 2: Say that's true? Yeah, it doesn't honor that kind of
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Speaker 2: right kind of inclination or awareness. It also creates a
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Speaker 2: lot of comfort in a way that it is paid well.
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Speaker 2: And when you already right, it can see a way
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Speaker 2: for you to be side in life. So to say,
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Speaker 2: why more they're thinking about some other stuff. Why can't
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Speaker 2: you just tell yourself, Hey, I'm all right, it's not
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Speaker 2: as important. That's true.
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Speaker 1: So you start to take classes, you start to get
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Speaker 1: more into it, it starts to resonate more authentically with you.
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Speaker 1: What do you start to or do you start to
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Speaker 1: think Okay, maybe I want to go in this direction
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Speaker 1: and maybe help this population, et cetera. What is starting
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Speaker 1: to align with you more about in the therapy field.
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Speaker 2: That's an amazing question, actually, and I find it right now
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Speaker 2: at this point in my career where I work with students,
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Speaker 2: I supervise other therapists, and I find that is a
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Speaker 2: question that is so important when we start the practice,
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Speaker 2: and yet often overlooked because there are just so many
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Speaker 2: approaches laid out in front of you, and right, you're
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Speaker 2: just invited to peak you an initially you want to
7:52
Speaker 2: work with or pick an approach or even better, right,
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Speaker 2: what I see more and more, just pick this and
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Speaker 2: this and that from every approach, do something eclectic, and
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Speaker 2: then just go and start practicing. What I appreciated about
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Speaker 2: the way my professors invited me to think about that
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Speaker 2: was first to understand how do you actually see your
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Speaker 2: clients right, how do you actually see the process of therapy?
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Speaker 2: How do you understand you can be helpful? What are
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Speaker 2: you hoping to happen in the process of therapy that
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Speaker 2: would heal your clients? And then building new approach from
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Speaker 2: those more general high high level ques. Once you get
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Speaker 2: this idea of who you see in front of yourself
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Speaker 2: as a human being?
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Speaker 1: Right?
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Speaker 2: Do you see a soul? Do you see a body?
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Speaker 2: Do you see a mind? Too? Right? Do you see?
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Speaker 1: This?
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Speaker 2: Is that combination of all this? Then you can ask yourself, Okay,
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Speaker 2: how can I help them? Right? Would that be through
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Speaker 2: understanding maybe the orationality of some of their thoughts or assumptions? Right?
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Speaker 2: Or will that be about being more connected to their body,
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Speaker 2: or maybe looking for some deep meaning and connecting to
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Speaker 2: their spirituality? And these answers will really define what the
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Speaker 2: way you will work. But I find that the piece
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Speaker 2: is as often missing in the training of therapies nowadays.
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Speaker 1: It's okay, so how did you answer that question? What?
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Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 1: The first one was like who do who? Did you see?
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Speaker 1: How are you approaching this? What were you imagining that
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Speaker 1: was going to be in front of you?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, something that I think resonated with me from the
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Speaker 2: very beginning with the client centered approach, and I think
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Speaker 2: it really kind of resonates with the way I see
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Speaker 2: other people, maybe with the way I was shaped by
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Speaker 2: my own family experiences where I was very aware of
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Speaker 2: my inner world and that of everyone around me. Right,
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Speaker 2: where inclined to settle any conflict or not very comfortable
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Speaker 2: with any kind of tension, to trying to understand everyone
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Speaker 2: and kind of keep the peace. So who I see
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Speaker 2: in front of me right when a client walks in
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Speaker 2: my office or there is a person on the screen
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Speaker 2: in a virtual space, is just another another world, right,
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Speaker 2: another universe, right, with completely different sometimes maybe perspective right
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Speaker 2: the way I've seen themselves, the way I've seen others,
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Speaker 2: a world that I will never be able to fully understand,
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Speaker 2: but the I can try to understand at this attempt
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Speaker 2: at ready to find in the common language, attempt at
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Speaker 2: trying to understand how they experience is shaped. I think
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Speaker 2: that that very attempt can create this particular attention that
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Speaker 2: I think can only happen in therapy where I'm desperately
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Speaker 2: trying to understand someone I can't fully understand, but my desire,
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Speaker 2: my interest, my care sparks something in the client.
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Speaker 1: Having said that, what do you feel or what were
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Speaker 1: you thinking or feeling or hoping that you could bring
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Speaker 1: to that relationship.
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Speaker 2: That's a good question, I would say sometimes probably the
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Speaker 2: baseline for me was to bring that understanding, right, to
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Speaker 2: bring that attention, to bring that focus, that feeling that
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Speaker 2: this person matters to me, this person is interesting, I'm
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Speaker 2: curious to know. I want to help. I'm here to
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Speaker 2: be there for them. And I think that was the
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Speaker 2: foundation that still remains the foundation of the way I
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Speaker 2: see the work. But then I learned how to help
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Speaker 2: the client be more aware of their inner world right,
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Speaker 2: because sometimes we just do so many things because we're
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Speaker 2: used to doing them that way, right, we're just doing
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Speaker 2: them out of habit. Because of the work, and being
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Speaker 2: aware of them right really start to shift things and
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Speaker 2: also connecting to those different parts of our worlds, different
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Speaker 2: parts of ourselves that are often either neglected or shut
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Speaker 2: down or just do not feel as important as others.
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Speaker 2: That's how I probably see my work now, being able
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Speaker 2: to help the clients to embrace themselves more fully, right,
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Speaker 2: to connect with themselves more fully, to be safe in
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Speaker 2: doing that, to be safe with any part of the experience,
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Speaker 2: and also to be safe when related to others.
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Speaker 1: Now, when you were studying, was it in Russia.
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Speaker 2: Yes, my masters I did in Russia, and then I
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Speaker 2: did on my additional training here in Canada.
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Speaker 1: Now I'm curious to what degree the culture of the
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Speaker 1: Russian culture plays into first firstly reception of therapy in
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Speaker 1: and of itself, and then secondly how that impacted you.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I mentioned observation actually because I think our
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Speaker 2: culture really shapes read so many things about us obviously,
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Speaker 2: and in therapy it is very relevant. I think lately
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Speaker 2: things have changed a lot, but even when I was
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Speaker 2: doing my studies it was very different. There's still a
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Speaker 2: lot of stigma around therapy and counseling in Russia, something
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Speaker 2: that I sometimes observe here Againada, but to a logic extent,
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Speaker 2: a logic degree, where a lot of people consider therapy
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Speaker 2: something kind of a medical nature, something that only person
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Speaker 2: that has kind of a serious disorder might need, or
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Speaker 2: assigned that right a person there's something wrong with them,
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Speaker 2: or they can't be part of a society, or a
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Speaker 2: sign of weakness. Read so many obstacles that kind of
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Speaker 2: get in the way of getting people get in help.
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Speaker 2: And at the same time, and I think something that
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Speaker 2: I really liked there was that psychological school of thoughts
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Speaker 2: where that academic psychology with a very high emphasis on
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Speaker 2: a theoretical background, on deep foundations and understand into whatever
13:11
Speaker 2: you do, where a lot of psychological and counseling work
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Speaker 2: stayed in that abstract theoretical field. Probably even my generation
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Speaker 2: of students that started after me, we tried to bridge
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Speaker 2: that gap, probably between that theoretical foundation that was there,
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Speaker 2: but also putting things in practice and seeing how they work,
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Speaker 2: and also feeding into experiences of specialists from other countries,
13:35
Speaker 2: from other ends of the world. But there was so
13:37
Speaker 2: much sharing going on.
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Speaker 1: In those years. So at what point did you move
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Speaker 1: to Canada?
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Speaker 2: Was twenty nineteen six years ago?
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Speaker 1: And how is it different for you? How did you
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Speaker 1: perceive the difference in how therapy is perceived?
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Speaker 2: So many things actually jumped to my mind. Well, well, first,
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Speaker 2: the whole field of counseling of therapy isn't regulated battle
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Speaker 2: in Russia, any person with a diploma in psychology can
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Speaker 2: call themselves well that way they want to actually write
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Speaker 2: a therapist, a counselor a psychologist to well, except for
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Speaker 2: a psychiatrist, which is still a medical profession there. So
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Speaker 2: coming to Canada and understanding how regulated things are here
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Speaker 2: and how this whole system works and where is my
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Speaker 2: kind of place in that system was a bit of
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Speaker 2: a challenge, but I grew to really appreciate it and
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Speaker 2: the comfort that gives a client who know who they're
14:29
Speaker 2: dealing with and what kind of support they get, although
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Speaker 2: sometimes it's pretty complicated for them as well. But then
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Speaker 2: also being able to work with such a vas to
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Speaker 2: diversity of clients coming from completely different cultural backgrounds, speaking
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Speaker 2: different languages, bring in different life experiences. It was something
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Speaker 2: I was not accustomed to, and probably read those clients
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Speaker 2: I saw educated me a lot about just the diverse
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Speaker 2: human nature.
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Speaker 1: We just remind everyone. I'm speaking with a pretty volkov
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Speaker 1: of feel your way therapy so interesting. I mean, you
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Speaker 1: have such an interesting background. I'm curious, was there ever
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Speaker 1: any It's not just coming from the field of law,
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Speaker 1: but coming from the culture of Russia, where there's a
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Speaker 1: certain perception of therapy. Was there ever the question of
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Speaker 1: what the hell am I doing?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, that's a very good point. Yes, I often
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Speaker 2: ask myself that, and actually, looking back, I often wonder
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Speaker 2: how I kept going and trust in myself. Probably I
15:35
Speaker 2: think that was a matter of just trusting myself basically
15:38
Speaker 2: because there were a lot of things were not working
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Speaker 2: out right, or I wasn't sure what to expect to
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Speaker 2: at the next area, or how this will unfold. All
15:48
Speaker 2: at the same time, knowing that I let go of
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Speaker 2: a perfectly clear or a career. So yeah, there were
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Speaker 2: a lot of doubts, a lot of anxiety still are
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Speaker 2: sometimes as right as I grow this as a business now.
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Speaker 2: But I think what really helps is that feeling that's
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Speaker 2: thankfully right. I'm very grateful for that that I got
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Speaker 2: some time back knowing what I really like doing, where
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Speaker 2: I really feel myself and not letting go of that,
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Speaker 2: to read reminding myself of that, and to sometimes just
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Speaker 2: trusting that it is worth it.
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Speaker 1: So fill your waight. Therapy, trauma informed care. Why that
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Speaker 1: that's to me? Trauma is something that is particularly I
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Speaker 1: think can be very challenging for a lot of us
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Speaker 1: for a lot of different reasons. What drew you to
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Speaker 1: that and continues to draw you to that?
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Speaker 2: So the way my focus is actually shifted right a
16:44
Speaker 2: lot over the years. So as I was first figuring
16:47
Speaker 2: out what interests me, what appeals to me, who I
16:52
Speaker 2: work well with, and so at first I was very
16:56
Speaker 2: interested in working with clients present with anxiety in its
17:00
Speaker 2: many forms, probably because I personally can relate to that
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Speaker 2: and it was part of personal exploration as well, but
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Speaker 2: that the more I worked, the more I saw that
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Speaker 2: it's not almost always. It's not just anxiety, it's not
17:13
Speaker 2: just depression, it's not just issues with regulating our emotions.
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Speaker 2: So often there is something behind that. And the more
17:20
Speaker 2: I talk to my clients, the ware I the more
17:23
Speaker 2: I learned, the more I talked to my supervisors, the
17:26
Speaker 2: more I understood that share element is very often trauma
17:29
Speaker 2: in its many forms, and I become fascinated with the
17:33
Speaker 2: way our life experience is either prolonged to or read
17:38
Speaker 2: those intense similar situations can really shape our whole being,
17:44
Speaker 2: our sense of self, our view of others, so the
17:47
Speaker 2: way we feel in our bodies to The more I
17:52
Speaker 2: thought about that, the more understand that, Yeah, that's where
17:55
Speaker 2: I can actually do probably the most helpful. I can
17:58
Speaker 2: still relate to clients in terms of how their symptoms
18:02
Speaker 2: feel in the nowadays. Anxiety, this can be a low mood,
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Speaker 2: this can be regulation, this can be issues in relationships.
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Speaker 2: But inviting them to reflect on how their world their
18:14
Speaker 2: experience was shaped and to identify those traumatic symptoms and
18:19
Speaker 2: traumatic occurrencies. So that really shifted my practice.
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Speaker 1: I think. So you start seeing clients at some point,
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Speaker 1: at some point someone comes in who's experienced some heavy
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Speaker 1: duty trauma. What was that like for you to deal
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Speaker 1: with that? Because it's one thing to want to work
18:35
Speaker 1: with people who've experienced that. It's one thing to you know,
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Speaker 1: read all the books and go to the workshops and
18:43
Speaker 1: have all that information and knowledge. It's another thing when
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Speaker 1: you've got someone in front of you who's had an experience.
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Speaker 1: What was that like for you? How did you manage it?
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Speaker 2: It was very scary, I would say, very scary, right
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Speaker 2: to face an experience of another person that is so
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Speaker 2: sometimes out of kind of my scope, right out of
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Speaker 2: what I'm familiar working with, and to find myself questioning
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Speaker 2: everything I do because I understand how much of that
19:12
Speaker 2: pressure is already on the client and easy it is
19:15
Speaker 2: to hurt them right or to be insensible to whatso
19:19
Speaker 2: they're going through. And I think there were two major
19:23
Speaker 2: shifts which really helped me both drownd myself and be
19:27
Speaker 2: more helpful to the client. Once, when I discovered semitic
19:30
Speaker 2: based approaches and learned about to read the role that
19:34
Speaker 2: our body plays in process and trauma and also in
19:38
Speaker 2: healing from trauma, pe to living sematic experience and was
19:42
Speaker 2: really kind of groundbreaking for me in that way. And
19:45
Speaker 2: then discovering emotionally focused therapy and attachment theory and understanding
19:49
Speaker 2: how trauma can impact our attachment and what role can
19:54
Speaker 2: attachment play in healing. That probably was the most important
19:59
Speaker 2: thing that happened in my practice in terms of giving
20:01
Speaker 2: me a clear map that that helps ready to find
20:04
Speaker 2: where the client is, that to help them make sense
20:06
Speaker 2: of the experience, and also to understand how we can
20:10
Speaker 2: proceed from there.
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Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about attachment theory and what
20:16
Speaker 1: drew you to that and how you're bringing that into
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Speaker 1: your work.
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Speaker 2: I think something that always was on far front of
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Speaker 2: my thoughts of my reflection about therapy was how terrifying,
20:29
Speaker 2: how awful it is to be alone. And I was
20:31
Speaker 2: always questioning this idea, read this or magical idea of
20:35
Speaker 2: being a lone person alone wolf and read that loneliness
20:38
Speaker 2: and with all that flair that often comes in popular culture.
20:41
Speaker 2: With knowing how actually terrifying it is to be really alone,
20:45
Speaker 2: to feel truly alone, and how different we can feel
20:50
Speaker 2: in the presence of another person, and knowing that this
20:53
Speaker 2: person cares right feeling that warmth this is so hard
20:56
Speaker 2: to put your finger on. But at the same time,
20:58
Speaker 2: probably even what I say, of that, right, probably you
21:01
Speaker 2: think of a couple of instances where you felt like
21:02
Speaker 2: that with other people and how healing that can be.
21:05
Speaker 2: So what I find what often happens when we survived,
21:08
Speaker 2: is that our experience of connecting to others is really hurt,
21:12
Speaker 2: and it becomes so very dangerous or very unsafe to
21:15
Speaker 2: allow ourselves to connect to others. Because when I speak
21:19
Speaker 2: about connection, when I speak about relationships, it's always twofold.
21:22
Speaker 2: The clothes that we get to another person, the more
21:24
Speaker 2: they can help us, the better they can make us feel.
21:28
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the more they get hurt us, right,
21:30
Speaker 2: the clothes that they get to another person, the more
21:32
Speaker 2: this person can make me sad or angry or scared.
21:36
Speaker 2: And so I often find that when people go through trauma,
21:40
Speaker 2: it becomes impossibly scary to trust another perposon again, to
21:44
Speaker 2: trust themselves again, sometimes right, and we build layers upon
21:47
Speaker 2: layers of protection, which makes total sense. We would try
21:51
Speaker 2: to protect ourselves, but unfortunately those protections, those defenses, also
21:56
Speaker 2: limits our range or feeling of connecting to others. And
22:00
Speaker 2: that's where I find therapy in.
22:02
Speaker 1: So, at what point did you found feel your way therapy?
22:06
Speaker 2: What was it?
22:06
Speaker 1: What was the purpose there?
22:08
Speaker 2: Why do you I think it was? There were several
22:12
Speaker 2: lays to that, right. Of course, there was more practical
22:15
Speaker 2: or kind of layer of expanding my practice and just
22:17
Speaker 2: being able to help more clients or rather than just
22:21
Speaker 2: be me by myself. But at the same time I
22:24
Speaker 2: mentioned that there's such a vast red richness or approaches
22:27
Speaker 2: or the things we can do now, and so you
22:30
Speaker 2: can only do so much. Right, you find your focus
22:33
Speaker 2: and you work within that right. So for me, it
22:34
Speaker 2: is that combination problem of CBT and EFT at the
22:37
Speaker 2: moment that I'm building my practice around. But I'm also
22:40
Speaker 2: sometimes fascinated when I read when I discuss RATI approaches
22:44
Speaker 2: like EMD, r IFS, Somitic experience and that I mentioned,
22:49
Speaker 2: And I understand that right many clients would would be
22:52
Speaker 2: better working with specialists who who knows what they do
22:56
Speaker 2: in that field. So I had that idea of rebuility
22:59
Speaker 2: team where where I could do something where I'm good at,
23:02
Speaker 2: but I also could have colleagues that could offer much
23:05
Speaker 2: more and could help clients with different guides of issues,
23:07
Speaker 2: offer more approaches, work with different populations. Right we now
23:10
Speaker 2: we have such amazing child therapists, right, something I probably
23:14
Speaker 2: will will never do. But at the same time, it's
23:17
Speaker 2: such tremendous help that right a person can get with
23:19
Speaker 2: still at a young age. So there was also that
23:21
Speaker 2: just expanding on what I can offer and moving towards
23:26
Speaker 2: what we can offer as a team.
23:28
Speaker 1: So you folks working.
23:30
Speaker 2: Yes, we find that there is such a demand now
23:32
Speaker 2: for in person after probably all those years of being
23:37
Speaker 2: locked to all the screens. And at the same time,
23:40
Speaker 2: we see a lot of couples, we see a lot
23:42
Speaker 2: of children, and I find that those two kind of
23:45
Speaker 2: populations are particularly re resonating with in person sessions, just
23:50
Speaker 2: because how naturality is right for children or teas to
23:53
Speaker 2: interact with a person in a physical space, but also
23:56
Speaker 2: with a couple with so much going on in the
23:58
Speaker 2: therapy room and so much to work with. It's my
24:02
Speaker 2: experience and something that many leads to share that in
24:05
Speaker 2: person sessions just work.
24:06
Speaker 1: Better for those all right, okaty, how do people learn
24:09
Speaker 1: more about We.
24:10
Speaker 2: Need to look at our website it's Philiotherapy dot Ca,
24:14
Speaker 2: or look us up at Instagram or Facebook. It's easy
24:17
Speaker 2: to find us for a name, philio Way Therapy.
24:19
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have that linked up here at the show
24:22
Speaker 1: notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Once
24:25
Speaker 1: a Way, that's Feel your Way Therapy dot ca a
24:28
Speaker 1: occati awesome, thank you, I appreciate you, conversation.
24:32
Speaker 2: Thank you.
24:34
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right, take care