Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (4/4)

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Talks to Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Welcome back to our Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife.
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  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
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  Here we are for episode 4 of Terror of the Zygons.
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  We've had three brilliant episodes so far.
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  I'm here with a glorious Simon Moore.
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  Hello, Simon. Hello, Joe.
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  Yes, ready for episode four. He hasn't disappointed.
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  Thus fine. I don't expect to in the next 25
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  minutes, with one possible small exception.
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  And even that, on some sort of kitch level is glorious, I
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  think. Brilliant.
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  Exactly. Exactly.
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  That's the spirit. Do you have your finger on the
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  button? I have my finger on the button.
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  Then I'll count as in in 321. Off we go now.
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  Diddly dumb. I've got a theory that season
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  sorry. Episode fours of Hinchcliffe's
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  era are generally disappointing. I think they set up brilliantly.
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  I think in 14 it's particularly bad.
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  That's very interesting. I think I, I, I disagree
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  significantly there. I think that's I I think that's
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  what happens later in the series.
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  That's what happens. That's what the heart little era
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  is like, because it just suddenly often or like the final
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  episode often it just sort of stops.
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  I think whether it's episode 4, episode 6, the final episode, I
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  think in the Hinchcliffe and Barry Letts eras, they in the
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  main understand that the final episode is to they use the
• 2:09
  entirety of the final episode to wrap up the story.
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  And that's what's happening here.
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  We're already at the climax. The climax is already happening
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  around us The the error they make in the in a lot of the
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  Hartnells is that the climax actually happens in the last
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  five minutes of the last episode And so you don't get that that
• 2:25
  feeling of build. Whereas I think the the the let
• 2:27
  stories are structured the bets the best of all of them of each
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  stories are still structured structured really well.
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  And even though I mean even later it's mainly the the, the
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  cardinal stories that I find kind of a let down by the final
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  by the resolution unfortunately, where they they don't live up to
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  the promise of the first episode, but they're still,
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  they're still great. You can kind of, you said wave a
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  tentacle, I love this expression, wave a tentacle,
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  that's we use that expression all the time.
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  So you need to go out into the balcony and wave a tentacle.
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  Is that the bit where he says. Isn't it a bit a bit big for six
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  of you? But yeah, I don't think it's a
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  bit big for six of you. Yes, it's a bit big for six of
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  you. Yes, Hang S from Loch Ness or
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  someone using cursive. Goodness me.
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  Hey Stuart, will you stop pointing out the production
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  deficiencies please? I know we've only got 6 icons,
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  but never mind. Now you're talking about 6:00.
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  This was supposed to be a six parter, wasn't it It?
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  Was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  I'm not sure how you'd put it out to six though.
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  Who knows? Like, I I don't know what, what
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  stage. It was reduced from 6:00 to
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  4:00, but it would have been a stretch with the material
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  they've got now. I don't know how you'd have done
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  it. Maybe you have two episodes in
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  London as like a kind of a two-part of the the the tag at
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  the end. Possibly.
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  I don't know. I honestly don't know.
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  I mean Bruton. Seeds of Doom, which is
• 3:45
  obviously the same writer, the same director.
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  It does that 24 brilliantly. Maybe they would have done
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  something like that. Oh, here we go.
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  We're back-to-back to normal Sarah and Harry.
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  Yes. Stop wasting your time over
• 4:00
  there, Harry. Come over and help me.
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  You know they're great. They're so natural together.
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  Yes. And there was no guarantee of
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  this. She was already in the show.
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  Then Tom came, Then Ian came. There was no guarantee that
• 4:17
  chemistry was going to be there. No, but, but, but isn't Ian cast
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  Because they don't know who the Doctor's going to be?
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  They create the character Harry because they don't know if it's
• 4:24
  going to be a young Doctor, an old Doctor and.
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  He do that and that's why stuff. That's why they get rid of him,
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  because he's he's surplus the requirements, which is a shame
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  because I don't think he is surplus requirements.
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  I think it works out as a brilliant I've always loved and
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  maybe again maybe it's because you know the first episodes I
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  watch, you know after Planet of the Spiders and I'm kind of and
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  then he regenerates and then suddenly Harry's there.
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  I just this idea of the Doctor with two companions seems to be
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  to me to be the the perfect set up.
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  I don't know. It's one too little and three
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  too much then. Three's certainly too much.
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  Three is certainly too much. And look at that model.
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  I mean, that's just great flying over there.
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  I I think 3 is definitely too much and I think that was that.
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  What that's why it was a bizarre decision for the Jodi era to
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  have three companions for all that, for a large chunk of it.
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  I mean, really. Well, we went to two in flux.
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  It did work a lot there, I thought.
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  It did work a lot better. Yeah, exactly.
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  I mean, I've always liked, I liked Amy and Rory for the same
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  kind of reason, you know? It just works.
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  What on earth is that hideous orifice?
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  It's a great but it's an orifice.
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  Isn't that fantastic? And again, it's moist.
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  We don't do organic spaceships very often, do we?
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  I can only think of it's an Axos and that's about it.
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  Yeah, that's true actually. Axos isn't moist though.
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  No, it just has sort of weird crab claws coming out of the
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  walls. Yes.
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  I like the fact that Tom was just there, causing mischief on
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  the spaceship. Now he's doing his thing.
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  Yes, yeah. But what's great is.
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  Nice to see the shadows. Sorry.
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  What's great? What?
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  I was going to say is that there is actually like a potential
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  mortal peril to him sending the signal.
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  Yes, yes, yes. Because they think he is dead
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  after they give him a kick. Yeah.
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  Oh, that's listen. Oh oh, that's so mundane.
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  Last scene heading over Leicestershire.
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  Oh bless. Just like every officious office
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  manager, he's there with his hands behind his back, staring
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  at the wall. It's interesting, Great.
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  As the cliffhangers are, I was just thinking back to you
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  saying, you know, watching it as the, the, the, the omnibus on
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  the VHS when, I mean it's released, it does actually work
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  and it's got the pacing of a of a film you you can watch it
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  through quite happily in one go, all joined together without it
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  dragging and without you feeling whatever.
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  Have we just done this without kind of feeling like you're just
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  looping back for a bit to to stretch out an episode?
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  The artistry of the the artistry of the of the pacing of the
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  writing is so great, isn't it? What is it you admire?
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  Our technology? Human.
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  Well, I'm not human. And I've seen better.
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  Better than this? Oh, yes.
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  And he just he he just refuses to be scared.
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  They walk in the door, these bloody great monsters, and he
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  goes. So one thing, social call.
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  Yes, but the one thing I will say that they do get wrong and
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  they did it before with the cable when he turned it turned
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  into the Zygon, turned into the camera that that haven't
• 7:36
  actually got the sizing right. The Zygon.
• 7:39
  It seems small like suddenly John would not appeared there as
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  the Duke and he seemed bigger. He seemed to take up a bigger
• 7:45
  space than he should have where the Zygon was.
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  I mean, it's a minor quibble. That if that's all we can
• 7:52
  criticize. If that's all we can criticize,
• 7:54
  I think we're doing pretty damn. Work in two seasons time we'll
• 7:57
  be watching Underworld, OK? Now that's that's.
• 8:01
  Oh dear, dear, dear, that's. That's.
• 8:03
  Something born of desperation. Terrible poor decision.
• 8:08
  A myriad of poor, poor choices to get to that, you know,
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  unforgivable, basically. You know, I'm actually recording
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  that tomorrow. Are you the?
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  Fellow's done a lot of research. I can't wait.
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  God. I mean, I know that they were
• 8:26
  supposed to film in caves and so on for that.
• 8:28
  But it's kind of like if you're trying, you're trying to be too
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  ambitious with the stories like this is this is what this gets
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  right is because yes, you've got all of these.
• 8:37
  You know, I just sorry, I love the, the polar ice caps must go.
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  It's just such a brilliant line using forced labor like.
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  Going down the shops to get some milk.
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  The polar ice caps should go. You'll go, you'll probably go.
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  It's just yeah, but he. But the thing they get right and
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  this is where I think a lot of the Hinchcliff stuff gets right,
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  is that you have your stock sets.
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  The castle, the pub, the office and so on, which is stuff that
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  they don't need to think about. The set designer can grab
• 9:04
  something from from the stock and dress it up and it's all
• 9:07
  beautiful, and then they can spend their time and effort on
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  this. I think when what what happens
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  with the Graham Williams era is you get into a situation with
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  basically virtually all the stories.
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  And there are some exceptions, but virtually all the stories
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  require bespoke scenery and costumes and that costs money
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  and I think added to the other issues that they were having at
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  the time, you're you're going to end up with something like
• 9:26
  Underworld and and then the debacle that you get with
• 9:30
  Invasion of Time and it's kind of a not the similar sort of way
• 9:33
  with the with the hospitals. The ambition outweighs the
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  means. Exactly.
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  And I'm very I'm all for ambition, but also I'm also also
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  for realism and what is achievable.
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  Well, one of I saw Philip Hinchcliffe convention recently
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  and he said he did start his stories and this might seem like
• 9:51
  an unambitious way to start. Can we do this?
• 9:55
  That was how we saw it. Like, can we make that?
• 9:57
  When they said we're going to do this planet in Planet of Evil,
• 10:00
  he was like, OK, can we realistically?
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  Can we actually do? This planet, that, and look,
• 10:04
  they did it. And to be fair, even though I do
• 10:06
  like Planet of Evil, that is actually probably got some bits.
• 10:10
  Not the forest. The forest all Shadow Ealing is
• 10:12
  just super but some of the spaceship stuff is quite is a
• 10:15
  bit on the plain side and so that's a great sort of example
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  of of what you end up with. And but the problem is that just
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  kind of multiplies starts to multiply when every story is
• 10:29
  like that. You know as I said then you do
• 10:31
  Pyramids of Mars and you've got all that kind of you know
• 10:34
  Victorian house sort of setting. And so that that's a doddle for
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  the BBC to do in this era when they've got you know all that
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  all those scenery you know stores and so on or as as well
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  they know how to do it. The lighting people know how to
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  light it. The scenery people know how to
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  build it and the directors know how to shoot it.
• 10:51
  Yeah. But like as well, just think
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  about the location, what this year as well, they're like,
• 10:55
  right, what have we got? We've got Fabulous Woods, so
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  let's do that in Android Invasion and Pyramid to Mars.
• 11:01
  We've got amazing more, you know, countryside.
• 11:04
  So let's do Moreland and Tear the Zygons.
• 11:06
  We've got a gorgeous country Manor.
• 11:08
  Let's do that in Caesar Doom. And it all works like
• 11:10
  gangbusters. Absolutely.
• 11:13
  And then again, one of the least successful looking stories is
• 11:16
  Brandon Morbius, because you've having to create the EX series
• 11:19
  of a planet in a studio and it does look a bit dicky.
• 11:22
  But you know, fine, you've got that.
• 11:23
  But you've got all this other stuff, you know, surrounding it.
• 11:27
  I'll forgive anything for that scene where he's straddling the
• 11:30
  the brain going Morbius, Morbius I.
• 11:34
  Love it. Oh, look, we've got them.
• 11:37
  Mr. Benton, Yes. So whereabouts have they landed
• 11:43
  against Derbyshire? Somewhere like that.
• 11:46
  I don't know. They've actually landed in a
• 11:48
  quarry this time, I think. Yes.
• 11:49
  Come on, dog. You see?
• 11:53
  That light, silly breathing. Light pulsing in the back there.
• 11:55
  That is a particularly stellar example of organic
• 11:58
  crystallography. I didn't like that one.
• 12:05
  Did you leave? Excellent.
• 12:07
  He goes off so smooth and this shot in a second where there's
• 12:11
  they jump out of the spaceship. So they've got the model in the
• 12:14
  shot. They set up the table top so
• 12:16
  it's sand, and then they have they and apparently it took them
• 12:20
  hours to line up the shot and they're jumping off.
• 12:22
  Cheap, right? But yeah, exactly that is that.
• 12:26
  It's artistry, it's it's brilliant, it's false
• 12:28
  perspective and it's simple, elegant, works.
• 12:31
  Let's not, you know, try to do something which is not
• 12:34
  achievable. I did just see production
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  deficiency there and I feel a bit colourish to mention it.
• 12:40
  I did just see a boom, my shadow, but you know, on the
• 12:44
  side of. His head.
• 12:45
  I'm very unobservant when it comes to things like boom
• 12:48
  shadows and and not to mention Boo, even boobs coming to shot.
• 12:52
  It's amazing how many you're seeing now on the Blu Rays that
• 12:54
  come out. Well, it's a great terrorist
• 12:56
  sticks line, isn't it? If you're worrying about things
• 12:58
  like that, we didn't do a very good job with the story, did we?
• 13:01
  There you go, yes. And for the most part, they did
• 13:04
  here. Oh, this is the what you talked
• 13:08
  about earlier, where we see Sister Lamont as she really is,
• 13:11
  and the Duke as he really is. Yes.
• 13:15
  And then they're all nicer, like they all act nicer and softer
• 13:17
  and a bit more like the way he's there and he's overcoat.
• 13:20
  Sister Lamont should come out just as nasty, you know, like.
• 13:23
  Yeah, or nastier, like she should squeeze.
• 13:28
  Squeeze. Look, that's squeezing.
• 13:30
  Oh, isn't it great, the fact that those things squeeze under
• 13:32
  his under his hands? It's yes, it's some of the more
• 13:37
  phallic controls that we've seen in Doctor Who.
• 13:42
  But certainly sensual allergies. Definitely sensual and maybe I
• 13:47
  should go see a doctor. It's so smooth.
• 13:55
  Here stride stride. This is great.
• 13:58
  I'm going off to give my demands to the world.
• 14:00
  See you later. And what is it?
• 14:05
  An an electricity conference in London or something like that?
• 14:08
  It's. I remember what it is.
• 14:10
  It's really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:12
  But there's going to be, well, who's going to be there?
• 14:14
  Various MPs or something on the. That's right.
• 14:16
  He's going to take out the lot with the Scarasan.
• 14:19
  I should broadcast my demands of the world and it's just as well
• 14:21
  we never see he's broadcast to the world.
• 14:23
  Because that would have been ridiculous and awful.
• 14:25
  So. Well, it would have been
• 14:25
  Lookopolis, wouldn't it? Yeah, Look at it.
• 14:27
  Look at it. That's.
• 14:28
  Just amazing. So that's all.
• 14:30
  That's all live as it as it were.
• 14:32
  That's all set up. So that's a.
• 14:33
  You're saying that's a table with sand on?
• 14:36
  It so where the spaceship is and underneath the table is yeah.
• 14:38
  And then it's it's married in with the location work.
• 14:42
  Yeah, it's and, but that looks seamless to me.
• 14:46
  Yeah, it looks you. You would think that they've
• 14:48
  built an enormous spaceship it it's even even now looking at it
• 14:51
  on this massive television. I'll give you another example of
• 14:54
  the same thing that's less successful to contrast and that
• 14:57
  is crow emerging from the depths where you've got a model and
• 15:01
  you've got location work and there's a very visible line
• 15:04
  between the two. Yes, yes, that that's because
• 15:07
  you can see the line and you know it or you're aware of the
• 15:09
  line. So that's unfortunate.
• 15:12
  Maybe they didn't quite have the map same amount of time.
• 15:15
  Or is it the fact that the film wobbles a little bit more?
• 15:17
  And sometimes when they shoot film you can sort of see that
• 15:19
  the image isn't quite still. I don't know.
• 15:23
  Doctor Who and his new crew here.
• 15:25
  The caber. Yeah, you you said.
• 15:26
  The companions, yes. Break this off, Snap, don't
• 15:31
  damage the set. It's not broken enough.
• 15:33
  It's more than enough. Do you know the sad truth?
• 15:39
  I think. I think these lines are lodged
• 15:40
  in our head as well somewhere. These lines are what?
• 15:44
  Sorry. From these stories we watched
• 15:46
  when we were younger, you could probably verbatim, say the
• 15:49
  script. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 15:52
  yeah. I don't, I really don't need the
• 15:53
  the sound on, you know, and it works like this, you know, it's
• 15:58
  just, yeah, I I could probably recite it.
• 16:00
  I can certainly recite, you know, 60 minutes worth of
• 16:02
  Genesis of the Dialects backwards thanks to this NLP
• 16:06
  slash tape. And I'll never forget Tom Baker
• 16:08
  watching this scene now on Tom Baker, The Early Years.
• 16:12
  Oh, he cut to him and he's going.
• 16:13
  Did you hear those voices? Open this.
• 16:16
  Door's door open. This door, he's going, it's very
• 16:19
  good, isn't it? It's hello.
• 16:21
  Good. Oh, this is brilliant.
• 16:22
  Here we go. And the and the and the fact
• 16:25
  that the building you're getting, the sound of the the,
• 16:26
  the the rising sound of the machinery of the space, you're
• 16:30
  about to blow up here even like kind of a sound.
• 16:32
  What is that? A sort of sand, Sort of that's a
• 16:36
  thing? Definitely is a quarry, so I did
• 16:38
  promise to take Nathan to a quarry when he visited, and we
• 16:40
  never quite got there. We went to the castle in
• 16:42
  Androids of Tara instead. Oh.
• 16:44
  My God, Harry's changed our fish.
• 16:46
  Here they go. Here we go.
• 16:47
  They're all jumping out the ship now.
• 16:48
  Look at that. Yeah, fantastic.
• 16:53
  And I love this. Her goes straight up to the
• 16:55
  camera and screaming Doctor. Yes, yes, that's that's hitting
• 16:59
  your mark, that's really hitting your mark and that's great.
• 17:05
  And then this explosion now. Yeah.
• 17:09
  Because it's slowed down to such an extent, you can just see
• 17:12
  every section of the ship going. Yes.
• 17:15
  And why are they incapable of doing explosions like that for
• 17:19
  other spaceship later? Like that's one of the few
• 17:22
  spaceship that they that they spaceship explosions that that
• 17:24
  it's all slowed down enough that you you get a sense of the
• 17:28
  scale. It's the question I've asked my
• 17:30
  scale doing. This is why do they forget how
• 17:33
  to do things. Yes.
• 17:35
  Why do they know how to do this? And they forget how to.
• 17:37
  Yeah, exactly. Because aren't the aren't a lot
• 17:39
  of the special effects people the same from story to story or
• 17:42
  or? Like during during eras.
• 17:45
  I think they are, yeah. And then I saw a new producer
• 17:47
  coming in. Yeah.
• 17:49
  Or there there's just a natural turnover.
• 17:51
  But but but yeah, I I just don't get why that looks like that.
• 17:57
  But then other things don't. I mean, because, I mean, I don't
• 18:01
  know how much oversight the director has of the effects.
• 18:04
  I don't think they have much oversight because it's kind of
• 18:06
  happening somewhere else. Yeah, there's your footage.
• 18:10
  Insert it, you know. Yeah, yeah, This is what we've
• 18:13
  got, you know? Oh, here's your line.
• 18:16
  That's right. I am, yes.
• 18:17
  That's right, I. AM and Sarah just happens.
• 18:22
  But he'll have a past. The Duke is the president of the
• 18:25
  Scottish Energy. I suppose she might have done a
• 18:31
  story on it in the past the. Scottish Energy Commission.
• 18:37
  I don't know what John. Levine's Did you?
• 18:39
  See John Levine in the back of that scene, chatting away with
• 18:41
  one of those soldiers. Yeah, well, that's good.
• 18:42
  You know, they're not just standing there looking stupid.
• 18:45
  Now, where is that on the Thames?
• 18:46
  Can you tell me? Is that is that sort of?
• 18:49
  No, I can't. Because that must be way down.
• 18:51
  That's not anywhere near. I think that might be the same
• 18:55
  building that we get a pan down in Attack of the Sidemen though,
• 18:59
  when we first see Liton and his folks.
• 19:01
  Brilliant. Yes.
• 19:03
  Excellent. See the lights are down again
• 19:06
  marvellous the. Lights are down, and we've even
• 19:08
  got a staircase in the set. Must doesn't echo.
• 19:12
  It doesn't. This is the only point in the
• 19:14
  story as well where you actually have a physical confrontation
• 19:18
  between a Zygon and a human, and I think it's wise to not do that
• 19:21
  too much. Yes, yes, exactly.
• 19:24
  You know you suggested. It's suggested, not.
• 19:28
  To well, and the the skill of it is we cut away to Sarah running
• 19:34
  down the corridor screaming, you know, Brigadier come quickly and
• 19:37
  then we cut back and the Doctor is just flinging himself across
• 19:40
  the room and that's enough to know that Proton is very strong.
• 19:44
  That is all you need. You don't need a a long drawn
• 19:46
  out choreographed sequence which inevitably will be a little bit
• 19:50
  naff. I'm trying to think of another.
• 19:52
  Multicam Studio. Comparison.
• 19:54
  Now think of Ingrid Pitt versus the Merka, you know?
• 19:58
  I'd rather not talking less successful.
• 20:01
  Executions. Oh, somewhat.
• 20:05
  No, there's. Some good fights there.
• 20:06
  There can be some good fights. There can be some good fights.
• 20:08
  But again, you don't need to. It's it's knowing what not to
• 20:11
  show as we we keep coming back to this thing.
• 20:12
  Don't show everything, you know, just show what you need to.
• 20:16
  Less is more shadows. You don't need to see everything
• 20:19
  so clearly. It is on this documentary that
• 20:22
  Hinchcliffe says he did have a fight.
• 20:24
  Sometimes with the lighting, people that were saying, well,
• 20:26
  you can't see anything and he can say that's the point, you
• 20:28
  know, Yes, I know, I don't want to scare people.
• 20:31
  Yeah, well, because that's the problem is that most of the
• 20:34
  lighting people, as I understand it and I might be wrong here,
• 20:38
  but those lighting people are also lighting, you know,
• 20:41
  something like Parkinson or a game show or or you know, the
• 20:44
  morning breakfast show. They're they're they're lighting
• 20:47
  things like that. And the and the news, the,
• 20:51
  although they're also lighting things like you know secret army
• 20:53
  or or whatever that is to be so and that's got lots of shadow in
• 20:57
  it. Something just happened in the
• 20:59
  80s, so where all the lights went up.
• 21:03
  Yeah, yeah. And those video cameras came in.
• 21:06
  Yeah, this is great. Look at run down the corridor,
• 21:09
  him throwing him across the room.
• 21:11
  Yeah. Giving him a neck massage, it's
• 21:14
  all going on. Yeah, in the head and the sound
• 21:19
  as well. I mean, that's quite, that's
• 21:20
  quite vicious, that soundtrack in terms of the the groton's
• 21:24
  screaming. It's a weird alien script and
• 21:27
  you actually see the bullets, don't you?
• 21:29
  Going into. Him.
• 21:29
  Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing.
• 21:32
  It's there's there's a cut here. That should have happened
• 21:35
  earlier, though, because when he falls, yes.
• 21:38
  You know what I'm gonna say, don't you?
• 21:40
  Oh, yes, yes, unfortunately, you see his Zygon top?
• 21:43
  Not quite. Meet his Zygon trousers.
• 21:47
  Oh, never mind. Never mind, we've got the Scout
• 21:51
  sound coming along now. Pretty damn good.
• 21:53
  Pretty damn good, all things considered.
• 21:55
  That's that's that's. And there are some.
• 21:57
  And also there was they couldn't shoot again.
• 22:01
  No, you just don't have time. So and admittedly as you're
• 22:05
  saying, you know that's something that I don't that I
• 22:07
  can tell you in 1979 when I was seeing that for the first time
• 22:11
  when it was a repeat, but I was seeing it for the first time and
• 22:14
  then the second time and the third time.
• 22:15
  I can tell you after that I was, I did not notice that that thing
• 22:18
  that you know his top and his bottom are kind of slightly
• 22:20
  coming Askew. It's not something, you know,
• 22:23
  just on a 33 centimetre television.
• 22:26
  But it is something you notice on your third watch, yeah.
• 22:30
  When you've watched it again and again, you're just looking for
• 22:32
  details after that, yeah? Exactly, exactly, exactly.
• 22:35
  I did love that, he goes. It's a signal device.
• 22:36
  Can you hear it? You go.
• 22:37
  It's in my pocket. They've managed to pull it down
• 22:42
  as it's it's fine. It's rather lovely.
• 22:44
  That's actually a defeat the monster by giving him a a very
• 22:47
  small meal. Yes, well, he just goes back to
• 22:51
  his knob there. So fetch it, fetch it.
• 22:52
  Oh dear. But it's so quick, it's kind of
• 22:58
  quick, you know, like. Yeah.
• 23:00
  If I get, let's get let's. See, I was just thinking you
• 23:03
  could have probably done that differently and knowing how
• 23:05
  crappy the the Scarrison sort of looks, Is there a way of doing
• 23:09
  it where you just hear the see the back of the like you shoot
• 23:11
  it the other way so you kind of get a a, an out of focus back of
• 23:14
  the Scarrison's head and the doctor sort of pointing and you
• 23:17
  certainly don't get that shot. You certainly don't do that shot
• 23:19
  with the car going past. I think that's there are lots,
• 23:22
  there's a ton of traffic going past.
• 23:23
  Nobody's stopping to look at the enormous monster that's popped.
• 23:26
  Out. Or are they trying to drive away
• 23:27
  as quickly as possible? Maybe.
• 23:31
  I know he knows. That's nice ends.
• 23:33
  Maybe I would have done it all just shooting the regulars,
• 23:35
  going Oh my God, it's huge. Yeah, exactly.
• 23:38
  Yes, huge look at that lovely Daniel Mont scene here.
• 23:43
  I think this is so lovely and I think it it very.
• 23:46
  I mean you can tell it's designed to be the end of the
• 23:48
  season the end of the previous season.
• 23:50
  Unlike the end of The Revenge of the Sidemen, which is kind of
• 23:52
  just stops, you know, this is, this is a great great.
• 23:58
  It's just that great Daniel Moore and it just makes you feel
• 24:02
  it just gives you that sense of satisfaction that you know
• 24:04
  you've been with these people, they they've they've taken you
• 24:08
  on this journey and it's all wrapped up, everyone's safe and
• 24:11
  we've all gone back up to Scotland.
• 24:13
  For some reason the brigade has gone with them.
• 24:14
  I don't know why. In fact, Harry, I don't know why
• 24:16
  Harry's gone all the way back to Scotland, given he's not
• 24:17
  intending to go with them. I mean, we nearly had four in
• 24:20
  this. He basically asked all of them
• 24:21
  to come into the targets at the end of this.
• 24:23
  Yes, exactly. Yes, Planet Planet of Evil would
• 24:25
  have been a slightly different story as a result.
• 24:28
  I love Harry's. Just very, very simple.
• 24:31
  I'll stick to Intercity Dr., Sorry, yes.
• 24:35
  But it's nice that they've taken the trouble.
• 24:37
  He's still got his little bump on his forehead, Harry.
• 24:39
  He's got his little bruise. And it's worth remembering Sarah
• 24:43
  has been through hell in season 12.
• 24:46
  And so to give her the option, do you want to come?
• 24:48
  And she's going all right. Yeah.
• 24:53
  Sick to intercity this time, doctor.
• 24:57
  I did like that line that kept the myth of the monster alive as
• 25:00
  well. I thought I saw a glimpse of it
• 25:02
  in the lock. I can't be sure.
• 25:04
  I can't be sure. The light was in my eye.
• 25:06
  Yeah, that's lovely, providing we go straight back to London.
• 25:09
  But I just love the the smile, you know?
• 25:11
  Oh, yes, I promise. I promise.
• 25:12
  You know, I'll take you straight back to London.
• 25:13
  And she knows. He's like.
• 25:15
  What happens next week? Oh dear, yes, I know it's.
• 25:19
  A minor. But isn't that great?
• 25:22
  I mean, it's just such a wonderful relationship.
• 25:25
  Just, you know, Doctor Who at its best, look at that simple
• 25:32
  rollback and mix. Don't have anyone in the shots
• 25:34
  so that it, you know, they move slightly to the left.
• 25:38
  And we end on a job and. This is a great line.
• 25:40
  Yeah, exactly, but without it being a stupid Scooby-doo level
• 25:43
  joke. I thought you're a Scotchman.
• 25:47
  Yeah, they're they are very, extremely tired.
• 25:50
  Of Scots, aren't they? But even John Wood, that's got a
• 25:54
  little laugh and smile and that's great.
• 25:57
  Absolutely Glorious isn't. It isn't.
• 26:01
  It just unbeatable. How would you how would you sum
• 26:04
  up Terror of the Zygons for you then, as we out this last
• 26:07
  episode? Well, look, it's it's one of my
• 26:12
  it's it's one of my comfort food stories.
• 26:17
  It's a great story. It is something that I that I
• 26:19
  know backwards but it's something that I can watch.
• 26:22
  As I said I like to watch you like in the winter time or
• 26:24
  something when it's a bit cold and you need to be sort of
• 26:26
  snuggled up a bit to appreciate the the pseudo Scottish weather
• 26:30
  that's going on in it. But it's it's just got the the
• 26:36
  it's got a sort of a not repression claustrophobia about
• 26:41
  it which which I love and I think that's when Doctor Who's
• 26:43
  most successful. It's not it's not trying to to
• 26:45
  do too much in terms of there aren't lot there aren't hundreds
• 26:48
  of Zygons or thousands of Zygons and there aren't slits of
• 26:51
  spacecraft and so on like that all the action takes but most of
• 26:53
  the action takes place in a very small confined area without it
• 26:57
  being a base under siege situation and I I think it's
• 27:01
  just incredibly appealing. The guest cast are perfect to a
• 27:05
  fault. 10 out of 10 if if we're. If we're using such a scale, I
• 27:09
  mean. I I usually ask for three things
• 27:11
  at the end of the The end of the Story for people to recommend,
• 27:14
  but you've just detailed about 10 there so thank you very much
• 27:19
  I. Should shut up then.
• 27:20
  Delightful. Simon, it's been wonderful to
• 27:23
  talk to you today. Thank you so much for your time.
• 27:26
  It's been an absolute pleasure. Loved every second of it.
• 27:28
  Thanks Jay so much.