Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / Moving Beyond the Hustle as a Female Founder with Valerie Hirschhauser | Ep. 135

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Moving Beyond the Hustle as a Female Founder with Valerie Hirschhauser | Ep. 135 · Women Disrupting Tech

0:10
Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
0:13
My name is dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast, I give the women
0:16
who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
0:20
each other. Join me on a journey into the
0:23
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
0:28
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
0:32
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
0:36
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
0:45
Disrupting Tech, and thank you for tuning in to episode 135.
0:50
This week, I sit down with Valerie Hershouser to explore
0:54
why the Startup playbook so often leads to burnout and what
0:58
it really takes to build a business that is sustainable
1:01
without sacrificing your well-being along the way.
1:05
After founding Frank About Tea, Valerie experienced first hand
1:09
how hustle culture can slowly pull founders away from their
1:12
values, creativity, and sense of self.
1:16
That experience LED her to sell the company and start 1,000,000
1:20
Women, a leadership platform focused on helping women build
1:23
bold businesses without burning out.
1:26
In this episode, Valerie explains why she sees hustle
1:29
culture as a system glitch and sometimes even as a trauma
1:33
response. We talk about how profit and
1:36
purpose can reinforce each other, why intuition deserves a
1:40
place alongside data in startup boardrooms, and how founders can
1:44
start designing their days around their energy instead of
1:48
constant availability. And we dive into Funding Father.
1:52
He shares why investors should fit your business and your
1:55
values, and why venture capital is not always right answer.
2:00
So when you're ready to move beyond the startup playbook and
2:03
build without burnout. Please welcome to Women
2:06
Disrupting Tech Feladi Hershouser.
2:09
Hey, Feladi Hershouser. Good.
2:12
Hi, good to have you on women disrupting tech.
2:15
Welcome question. I always want to start with is
2:19
to to get some background on you as a person.
2:22
So please tell us a bit about who Feladi Hershouser is.
2:26
I guess I don't want to like just go down my biography, but I
2:29
suppose I think a nice anecdote is where I am now in my life and
2:34
what it looked like before is yesterday, for example, I was at
2:38
the spa with my mom middle of the day and weekday and we
2:42
bumped into a friend of my mom's and he looked at me and he asked
2:46
me, don't you have to work? And I remember just like smiling
2:50
at him. And I said, well, I'm completely
2:52
flexible. If I want to go to spa with mom,
2:54
I can do that. And I wasn't saying that to
2:57
boast to be boasting. It was more like a reminder, I
3:01
think to myself of how different my life is now.
3:05
So what I can say is that these days I really prioritize,
3:09
well-being and resting over just adding more hours to my work
3:13
day. I live a much smaller, slower
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life in Portugal now, no longer an Athens.
3:20
But yeah, that that all just didn't fall from the sky.
3:23
It wasn't like an overnight thing.
3:26
It really came after years of searching for freedom, burning
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out in the hustle culture, and realizing that real freedom for
3:35
me is really something internal. And part of that comes from my
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background. So I grew up between 3 cultures.
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So from a young age, I was quite, yeah, I would say
3:46
fascinated about how different people live and what connects us
3:50
across the world. For some reason, food and drinks
3:54
became my lens into that fee account, like a lot of things
3:59
that we consume every day in the West, part of our daily routine,
4:04
but that actually grow here. So I wanted to know, how are
4:07
things grown? Why?
4:08
Who are the people behind it living or not?
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So I think that's really what fueled my entrepreneurial
4:14
journey. So after university I briefly
4:18
tried being an employee, but I quickly realized I just
4:23
couldn't. What made you really realize
4:26
that? I just didn't do well with being
4:29
told where to be and how to do things and I think freedom was
4:34
always been my highest value. So yeah, eventually I Co founded
4:38
Frank about tea. On paper, technically I now had
4:42
all the freedom of a founder, but actually in reality, I felt
4:46
quite trapped because I was really following the startup
4:49
playbook, like doing the things the way they were supposed to be
4:52
done. But in the process I really lost
4:55
the actual freedom that I was searching for.
4:57
So I would say that's my journey in a nutshell.
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So you lost yourself in the startup journey.
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What made it not work for you? I wouldn't say not, certainly
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not work. I think it was just an
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incredible learning ground. I mean, it still is, but I, I
5:18
think it's coming into it with a certain expectation, like one
5:22
being like, oh, I have, you know, I'm going to be my own
5:24
boss, have so much freedom, whatever they want.
5:26
I can really shape this in every shape, you know, in every way I
5:30
want. We're going to solve the world.
5:32
We're going to make sure that in our case, you know, all the tea
5:34
farmers will have a great living from now on.
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And you come in with a really, you know, big dose of ambition,
5:42
which is I think really great, but that a lot of that ambition
5:47
for me at least, was fueled by more external factors, external
5:51
expectation validation. So it didn't feel like it was
5:56
authentic coming from an authentic place.
5:58
It just felt like we need to build this in the way that's
6:01
supposed to be done. We need to be doing this and
6:03
that we need to be, you know, we need to be online, we need to be
6:06
e-commerce, We need to be need to see, we need to have sure we
6:09
need to have investors and like kind of going through that loop
6:13
I would say and not staying true to myself enough in that in that
6:18
process I would say. OK, so building something that
6:23
someone else invented rather than something of yourself.
6:27
In a way, yes. I mean, what we were doing at
6:29
the time was unique, but I think the way we were, the how we were
6:33
really trying to put ourselves into a mold.
6:37
Yeah, more than was necessary. So I read somewhere that you
6:43
said that or wrote that hustle culture is sort of system
6:47
glitch. Can you double click on that for
6:51
me? What does that mean?
6:55
Yeah, for me, hustle culture is a system glitch because we
6:59
normalize to the point where people like almost brag about
7:05
how exhausted they are, how many hours they worked.
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It's we treat it as a proof of ambition, but actually for me,
7:14
it's proof that the system, something in the system isn't,
7:16
is broken. If that is like if these are the
7:19
lengths we have to go to to make it.
7:21
Work. And something for me in the
7:22
system is, is glitching and related to that, you know, I've,
7:28
I've recently on another podcast talked about like possible being
7:32
a being a trauma response. And that's related because I
7:37
think many of us are driven by an inner fear or inner wound,
7:43
for example, fear of not being enough, of maybe being left
7:47
behind or fear of disappointing others if we don't, you know,
7:51
act in a certain way. So hustle often becomes like a
7:55
coping mechanism. If, if I just work harder, if I
7:58
just work really, really hard and keep going, I'll be safe,
8:01
I'll be respected, I'll be loved.
8:04
And it it's often ceases to be about creativity or joy or
8:08
impact and it just becomes survival really.
8:12
So I think like still, I'm still amazed by the amount of LinkedIn
8:17
post every day around, you know, you just got to push through and
8:21
60 plus or 100 plus hours are normal.
8:24
Don't complain, let's go. I just find that fascinating
8:27
because even even just from a leadership point of.
8:30
View I think. If you need to put in that many
8:32
hours consistently, something, yeah, this is still not working
8:36
either. So yeah.
8:38
Yeah. It's, it's interesting that you
8:41
say that. I was thinking while you were
8:45
mentioning this like, OK, but it is about impact, it's about
8:52
results, not about working hard. And still people sort of, if I
8:57
hear you correctly, people see hustle as a sort of form of
9:02
validation, self validation. Yeah, batch of honor as.
9:07
Well, so if I work hard, it's then I'll be OK instead of if I
9:13
get results, then I'll be OK, which obviously is a is a much
9:19
healthier thing. Yeah.
9:21
So how, how did you find out for yourself what works for you?
9:26
How how to get from a place where hustle sort of Eastern
9:31
norm to a place where you feel like, hey, yes, I can do the the
9:38
things I want to do the way I want to do them.
9:41
Yeah, I guess I learned by doing them.
9:45
They're not the way they're not supposed to do them.
9:49
So I had to go through, yeah, through that same hostile
9:53
experience as well, I would say. So when I was at that peak of
9:57
it, I was it, it was, it feels like constantly, it's just
10:00
constantly being on. So even when I was in a laptop,
10:04
my mind was continuing to run numbers, strategies, next
10:08
investor meeting, next campaign. I remember at some point my, my
10:12
brother lives in the, in, in the Caribbean for, for a long time
10:15
and I remember visiting him and, and I just like, I don't even
10:19
can't even recall any of the things we did.
10:21
I didn't enjoy the beaches, I didn't enjoy the turquoise
10:24
waters. I just couldn't be there.
10:26
And all I was doing in my mind was just thinking about work
10:30
and, and being on on, on being focused on that.
10:33
And I think that was, yeah, it was even like, I would say like
10:38
armor in a way, because I was pretending I was really fine.
10:42
But underneath I was like exhausted, disconnected from my
10:45
body and honestly from joy. So I couldn't even enjoy a
10:49
Caribbean holiday. So yeah, that toll felt pretty
10:52
big. I would say physically I wear
10:55
myself down, mentally I lost my creativity and emotionally I
11:01
felt like trapped in something I'd actually chosen myself.
11:05
So that was kind of the irony of it.
11:06
You build a company to be free, but I wasn't free at all in
11:10
mentally. So what that taught me that
11:13
freedom is not just about being your own boss.
11:17
Freedom is really something internal.
11:19
It's knowing when to stop, when to rest, when to do things your
11:24
way. I would say instead of following
11:26
the playbook and slowly over time, I mean, I was forced to, I
11:31
would say unlearn hustle that had to reconnect to why I
11:35
started being an interpreter in the 1st place, you know, which
11:39
in that case was curiosity. It was creativity and behind the
11:43
people behind the products and how do we, you know, change
11:47
consumers lives for the better? Yeah.
11:50
But it was a, it was a, it was a rough journey.
11:53
Yeah, I can imagine. Especially if it's ends in
11:56
burnout rather than in in success.
12:00
I'm just thinking. I mean, The thing is, I think a
12:04
lot of the, so often we, we hear burnout, we see burnout and it's
12:08
like people that just take off time from work and yeah, they're
12:13
just like kind of seen as OK, I'm, they're burned out.
12:16
They can't do anything anymore and everything stops.
12:20
I would say I was in a burnout, but I continued to to continue
12:24
to work. So that made it in hindsight
12:26
even worse. But it went on for years.
12:28
So no one outside, you couldn't see it.
12:32
Like it wasn't visible to the outside world.
12:33
So technically like the success was like affected in the
12:38
external in the external sense, but I myself was playing paying
12:43
the price for it. So what?
12:45
Out of curiosity, what happened to the company?
12:48
The company we yeah, we raised two or three, yeah two
12:52
investment rounds and we were grew to a certain stage where.
12:57
I mean my Co found and I really came came at it from a more
13:00
impact angle. And at a certain point, we got
13:03
to the barrier of like it just needed a bigger commercial base.
13:08
So, yeah, after the, I think one year after the last round, which
13:11
was the point where I had to make a decision because I, I
13:15
just thought I couldn't do it anymore.
13:17
I something about stepping to the investor and I told them I
13:19
can't do this anymore, which was my make a huge step of
13:22
vulnerability for me. And then we all agreed that we
13:25
would look for an early buyer. And yeah, we managed to find a
13:30
really nice tea company that ended up buying two years ago.
13:34
And so the brand is still out there, still thriving, actually
13:37
launched a whole new line yesterday and it's going to be
13:40
all over support. So yeah, quite.
13:43
It's still being alive, but it's no longer owned by us, so no
13:46
longer led by us. OK.
13:48
Do you still have any involvement though?
13:52
No, only because the money from the sale went into a separate
13:56
foundation and one of the directors of the foundation.
14:00
So we, we invest in tea projects, things like that.
14:03
Because there wasn't, you know, there wasn't, I would say enough
14:07
money to, to, to buy out every investor.
14:11
So then US1 and our biggest investor, and as founders, we
14:16
decided it would be better to, yeah, close the circle and put
14:19
it into a foundation, which is what we ended up doing.
14:22
But it's also a very good way to continue the impact through that
14:28
foundation, I think. No, 100%.
14:30
I mean, I always believe the impact needs to be in the core
14:32
business model, but the foundation definitely helps to
14:35
continue to support projects on the side and to make sure that,
14:39
yeah, enough money is going into the communities.
14:42
OK. I want to switch gears a bit
14:45
because you do also besides the other work, which we'll get to
14:51
in a bit, you do a little bit or lots actually of mentoring work
14:55
for our startups. So in term, linking back to the
15:00
to the hustle culture, what do you see as common struggles for
15:05
other female founders that you talk to in coach and mentor?
15:09
Yeah, I would say there's a few common themes and one of them is
15:16
carrying, carrying everything themselves.
15:19
So really struggling to let go and to trust the team, trust the
15:23
Co founder, trust someone else to handle it in a, you know,
15:28
satisfactory way. So it's really that feeling of
15:30
carrying everything themselves constantly.
15:34
Also, there's of course a issue around the impact space,
15:37
specifically around balancing your purpose with the pressure
15:41
of profitability. I mean we.
15:44
Can get to that later, but there's always a fine line there
15:47
and it's not always easy, especially if the purpose is not
15:50
fully. Integrated into the business
15:51
model. And I would say like a lot of
15:54
FEMA founders that I work with, they also deal with invisible
15:57
barriers. So there's some, you know, lack
15:59
of access to certain networks, certain capital, or even just
16:02
role models. And it's often that they, you
16:07
know, include myself there that we need to feel like we to
16:09
prove, prove the proof ourselves twice, like once you prove
16:14
yourself as a founder. And then you need to prove
16:15
yourself as a woman. And that's.
16:18
Pressure. Can yeah, can definitely have an
16:20
impact on how you scale as a founder.
16:23
So what's the difference between proving yourself as a founder
16:26
and proving yourself as a woman? I would say like it's more like
16:30
a double edged sword in the sense of often there's already a
16:35
certain, I mean there's now a lot of research for example,
16:37
done that in investor conversation, for example, that
16:40
women are tend to be asked more performance based questions and
16:45
men are asked questions more around ambitions, projection,
16:51
things like that. So.
16:53
As a for example, that you have to like really make sure that
16:57
your performance, you know, is is defend yourself in the way
17:01
you perform and make sure that's you know, being as after up to
17:03
date as often this. I got that question a lot
17:06
question around how you're going to be managing the family and
17:10
potentially have children with work.
17:13
It's like things and questions that many men just don't get
17:18
that take, you know, a certain Yeah.
17:21
And some it just takes a lot of energy sometimes to having to
17:24
deal with that, which is already it's already hard being a
17:27
founder. It's so difficult.
17:29
So yeah, sometimes it's just unnecessarily difficult by yeah.
17:34
Also just being a a a woman founder, yeah.
17:37
So what do you think is causes this difference between female
17:42
founders who get more need to have done it already almost
17:47
versus male founders? Oh, how are you going to do it?
17:54
So much more forward-looking, much more indeed the projection
17:57
part and we trust that you have the capabilities, but we want
18:01
you to tell us how. Why is that in your view?
18:04
What what is your experience with that?
18:06
Well, I think it's, I mean, it's always a combination.
18:08
I don't want to blame it just on the system.
18:10
I think a woman have a role to play in that as well.
18:12
I mean, there's, I always wonder in a way, we're asking the many
18:17
women to to learn the language around, for example.
18:21
Then the investment world of startup world that was often
18:24
comes from was invented or thought about by men.
18:28
And we kind of asked them to take on that language and
18:31
become, you know, fluent in it. And it's a way to move in the
18:35
ecosystem, right? That makes it just easier.
18:39
It's a certain vocabulary, it's a certain attitude, certain
18:42
energy. Now sometimes I wonder like why
18:43
is it the? Woman, I have to learn, but I
18:46
have to adjust. But I think that is the way it
18:48
is. So part of that is.
18:50
I think on the woman to be able to do that.
18:52
Can we change that though, that that it's up to a woman to learn
18:56
it instead of the system changing?
18:59
Because personally I think it needs to come from both sides.
19:03
Yes, there are certain rules of the game that just work the way
19:07
they do, or that we cannot change in the short run.
19:09
Let me put it that way. But there's also a bit of change
19:13
that can come from I. Think it's it starts by
19:18
questioning your own bias. Are you backing what looks
19:22
familiar or are you backing what has true potential for example.
19:26
And it's around I think and part of that is also just timelines.
19:30
I think that's more impact related like impacts businesses
19:33
take longer to skill usually, so they need to invest, need to
19:37
make sure that the timelines adjusted to that as well.
19:41
Yeah, I think just, and it's in, it's not just capital, it's
19:44
really around the introductions. And we're taking a more of an
19:47
active role perhaps in in making these introductions that the all
19:51
boys clubs already have that's, you know, has access that women
19:55
haven't had in the past. So how do we make sure that we
19:58
are pulling each other into the right rooms and that's, you
20:01
know, something that's also done on on the woman's side and how
20:05
do we make sure that we're not like.
20:07
And I think it's funny enough, I think often the the biggest
20:11
resistance comes from other women.
20:13
I mean, we have this word in Dutch, right, the cover month,
20:16
meaning, you know, if, if, yeah, one woman tries to get up, we
20:18
tried to pull each other down or pull her down, which I think is
20:22
still happening to some extent. It's changing, but still I still
20:26
see it happening. But yeah, I think overall it's
20:29
around supporting each other, making sure we, you know, we,
20:32
we, yeah, put each other into the, bring someone into the
20:34
right room. It's around investors really
20:36
looking at their own buyers. It's about.
20:39
More. Female investors entering the
20:40
space, which is happening. So that's great.
20:43
And I think it's yeah, it is also in a way just it's also a
20:50
matter of in a way, of course, we always talk about confidence
20:52
and I think that is important. It is important the energy you
20:57
bring. And, you know, sometimes, you
20:59
know, some, some say like we should, you know, women tend to
21:02
not like, promise huge hockey. Stick growth and are just.
21:05
More realistic, which in the end works out, but then you know, it
21:09
makes it sometimes harder to raise funding.
21:11
So I guess the question is also. But isn't that part of the
21:14
system that expects to hockey stick because they're only
21:17
looking for those unicorns instead of looking for a
21:20
balanced? Well, to the extent you can have
21:23
a balanced portfolio in a high risk environment, but at least
21:27
to to have maybe have a portfolio position where you
21:32
will have to need one or two Unicorn candidates.
21:35
But also let's say two or three companies that can 10X your
21:41
return, or maybe 4-3 or 4X your return to have at least basis.
21:46
Yeah, No, agreed. I mean, I think we're then
21:48
mostly talking about the VC space.
21:51
And I do think there's also often overlooked a lot of the
21:55
family offices, you know, Angel investors are getting like
21:59
writing more and more bigger tickets.
22:01
So I think it's also just as a woman to really also seek out
22:04
that connection with an investor and about, you know, maybe
22:07
signing the fence. Yes, we see fund, but it's more
22:09
around you have the right match to to be on this adventure with
22:13
you. And I think again, that comes
22:16
down to not always having following the playbook and going
22:19
for what's most respected, but we're going for what works for
22:23
you. And that can look different for
22:25
everyone. And I think women in particular,
22:28
it needs also certain type of flexibility, you know, just
22:32
around scheduling, around childcare, things like that.
22:34
And just as much for the man, like it's a, it's a, it's a
22:37
playoff. I'd say moving with the demands,
22:42
you know, of, of moving with the the tides of a certain season
22:46
and being able to an investor's understanding that one season
22:48
can look different than another season.
22:51
And it's just in the end, it's about the long term game and
22:55
it's about what actually, you know, works.
22:57
It doesn't have to go in the way that we, yeah, we expect things
23:01
to go. Let's say yeah.
23:03
Yeah. And especially in the impact
23:04
phase that you would expect investors to be that way, to
23:08
look at it that way question mark.
23:11
Yeah, you would. I mean very much just depends
23:14
again on the on the investors. I think in the impact phase,
23:17
there's no. If you're not a fast.
23:19
Growing tech company in many ways we see doesn't make sense.
23:23
Yeah. So unless you are, you know,
23:26
yeah, a tech solution or maybe some like a product that needs a
23:31
lot of R&D and a lot of, you know, pre investment then sure.
23:35
But other than that, I, I think I just see a lot of founders,
23:40
especially a lot of women still seeking the wrong type of
23:42
investment for the phase then for the type of business they're
23:46
having. Is that also the biggest mistake
23:49
that female founders make, that they are looking for the wrong
23:54
type of capital? To some extent, yes.
23:58
I'm not sure if it's the biggest mistake, but I think it's
24:01
definitely, definitely a way to lose a lot of to waste a lot of
24:04
time on on the one things, yeah. OK, So how does coming back to
24:11
hustle culture working hard? Because if if you do attract
24:16
external capital there, so it sort of also fuels the, let's
24:22
call it sense of responsibility. It triggers a bit that you have
24:30
to work hard then to validate that you are worthy of the
24:33
money. How else does that also play
24:37
into how female founders struggle?
24:42
Or does that particularly affect how female founders?
24:47
Generally, of course, I mean, I don't want to.
24:50
I mean, we all know as founders. It's, it's just, it is hard work
24:53
and always is. I think that's the difference
24:54
between. There's a difference between
24:57
working hard because you believe that you're only worthy if you
24:59
sacrifice everything. A.
25:02
Woman that might mean putting off having children, for
25:04
example, or you know, things. So instead of building a
25:08
business that sustains the founder as well, we we burn out
25:13
trying to show that we can keep up with everything.
25:16
And then it starts. Compounding because society in a
25:20
way also expects women now to do it all and to have it all.
25:23
And we want to have it all. I think you.
25:24
Can, but just not at the same time.
25:27
And yeah, I mean the reality is when you probably raise funding,
25:30
that will probably be a time where you know more work and
25:34
focus is required at the same time.
25:37
I really believe if you have the right systems and if you, you
25:41
know, dare to delegate, if you're like willing to let
25:44
things go, that it's actually possible not to work yourself
25:48
into the ground even after field receiving.
25:50
Funding, you know, it comes down like are you is does the
25:54
business, what kind of funding are you receiving?
25:57
You already have put up market fit or not.
25:59
I mean, there's so many factors that play into it.
26:01
What I see a lot is that. Oftentimes we are busier than we
26:05
need to be and that's and that's, that's a belief.
26:08
OK. How do how do you sort of sense
26:11
that? How do what are, let's say,
26:14
flags that are that raise when this happens?
26:20
Yeah, I mean often. I mean I I remember doing the
26:23
same. Like I would sometimes write
26:24
emails at really late times on the weekend.
26:28
Just a kind of show I was working, which is ridiculous in
26:32
hindsight, but I think it shows in the sense of even just ask
26:35
any person in in the Netherlands, like how are you?
26:38
The most common reply is busy. I mean, we can't tell me that.
26:43
We're yes, life is busy, yes, sure, and it always will be and
26:46
there's no. There's an illusion of having a
26:49
no To Do List just doesn't doesn't exist.
26:51
So it's really around being conscious of taking time when
26:56
it's needed. So I think it ties into being
26:59
connected to your body. I mean, that's.
27:00
Just the key of it, if you're not connected and you don't know
27:03
what you actually need, so then you just kind of keep going
27:06
without being conscious of what you're doing.
27:08
So it's a, it's a. It's a way to.
27:11
It's a way of checking in with yourself and you can often tell
27:14
if people are not doing that. Because it's just.
27:17
Yeah, they just don't even understand.
27:19
Like where? How the energy moves they don't
27:22
understand like when do I need to go like a bit faster and when
27:25
can I slow down? Like.
27:27
What? Season are we in?
27:28
House, you know, how are the business?
27:30
How's the business? Performing What's the team
27:32
dealing with right now? Can I actually offload more to
27:35
them? Yes or no?
27:36
So there's all these factors that play into it, but then most
27:38
people are just constantly, constantly busy.
27:42
And I think then you're not checking in with yourself.
27:43
You're not really being aware. Yeah, being realistic about
27:46
what's really needed. And it's a lot of busy work,
27:49
right? It's a lot of busy work out
27:50
there, yeah. Yeah.
27:53
So how do you shift then? How do how do you tune in to
27:59
yourself? I mean, I know I meditate, for
28:03
instance, probably that's one way, but are there other ways
28:08
also maybe also to to check in on the on the seasons that you
28:14
mentioned, because each company and each founder goes through
28:18
seasons. Maybe talk us through what that
28:23
means, how you find out how how checking in with yourself and
28:27
delegating, how that all plays together in many managing
28:32
yourself through those seasons. Yeah, I mean, I, I always talk
28:36
around energy management and it's not available for anyone.
28:41
But what it means is that you, you optimize your schedule or
28:46
your work for time. So I mean time management,
28:50
sorry, means you optimize for time.
28:52
So you have your schedule and people put meetings and you
28:55
schedule meetings and you're like, OK, I'm working in these
28:57
hours. Let me, you know, let me fill
29:00
up, pile up the calendar. These are the, you know, the
29:04
times that I work the what happens in your life, whatever
29:07
season you're in, but then energy management optimizes for
29:11
energy levels. So go around following your
29:15
naturally natural energy rhythm of a predetermined schedule.
29:21
What that means in practice for women, for example, we the easy
29:24
way to start is with being aware of your cycle.
29:28
We all go through a motorcycle every month, even in
29:32
perimenopause. Menopause is still hormonal
29:34
changes. So how can we first of all be
29:37
aware of what's? Going on in our bodies.
29:40
And what's going on around us? And second of all, yeah, what
29:44
does that mean for the type of work we'll be doing in certain
29:46
times of the month? So as an example, I mean,
29:51
ovulation for a woman is, is an amazing time to be out there
29:56
pitching investors, doing sales, being going conferences, giving
29:59
speeches, amazing. I mean, we can do literally
30:02
anything. We're like Super Bowl on in that
30:04
week, in another week, in the week, you know, before
30:08
menstruation, for example. It's there's no point doing
30:10
that. It's just makes a lot more sense
30:12
to. Focus some more details on
30:14
certain projects. Wrap things up, make sure that
30:18
you know the details are taken care of and it's just a very
30:20
different way to spend your time.
30:23
And it's not always. Possible and it's not the ball
30:26
for everyone of course, because you know there's a reality of
30:29
children just daily life things that happen but it is it's a
30:33
very it's a it's a first step so I.
30:35
Think the whole. Like key is just being more
30:39
tuned into your body and meditation is a great tool.
30:42
Breathwork is a great tool. This many many great tools.
30:45
The problem is not the lack of tools.
30:47
And the problem is. Feeling like you're worthy
30:49
enough to actually spend time on that.
30:52
I think that's the main problem. It's like people don't actually,
30:56
there's a lot of resting with feeling guilty for, for taking
30:59
time off, right? For us, I think as long as we
31:01
have that guilt fueling us, there's a lack of, yeah, I would
31:06
say there's a lack of self worth and feeling that you really
31:08
deserve to be energized, to be fueled and to go through the day
31:13
with, you know, full of creativity and joy.
31:16
And you don't have to constantly feel like you're at the edge and
31:19
completely drained. OK, so, so how do we start to
31:22
feel worthy then? Because it, it's, it's a bit,
31:26
yeah, it's it's a bit of a mindset game.
31:29
But, but here's where why I'm coming to that.
31:32
I've done quite a bit of coaching and are gone quite a
31:37
bit of coaching. And one of the things I took
31:38
away is that the only way I can succeed if is if I can create
31:44
circumstances that make me succeed.
31:47
Now I'm, I'm a man, so my hormonal cycle is nowhere near
31:53
as complicated as a woman cycle. It's it's like there are ups and
31:58
downs in the in the testosterone, I think, but
32:02
that's 24 hour cycle and it's pretty equal throughout the
32:07
month. But how do we get to a place
32:10
where women A understands that part, and B then also understand
32:15
that they're worthy of really following that cycle?
32:21
Because it's them, it's their life.
32:23
It's not going to change. Yeah.
32:25
I mean, it's, it's the inner work, right?
32:27
I mean, it's, I think entrepreneurship generally is a
32:32
huge mirror to ourselves, to our inner, to our inner worlds.
32:36
You get confronted with yourself pretty quickly and then you have
32:39
a choice. You either do something with it
32:41
and that can be in the form of coaching or, you know, getting
32:44
other sub support, mentoring, investing in in in coaching and
32:48
training for your team, for yourself.
32:51
It's you need to do something. I mean, if you don't like change
32:54
anything, then there's no results going to change either.
32:56
So I mean, we can't expect a different outcome with the same
32:58
input. So it starts with a choice to
33:03
want to do it differently, to not be consumed by the system
33:08
and society, expectations and things, but to to choose to have
33:11
some agency in it and once. Is that a choice agency?
33:18
We're getting quite philosophical, I guess.
33:19
No, no. But I'm I'm genuinely
33:21
interested. I I think, OK, I'm, I'm
33:26
referring to a certain subset of society that, you know, has, you
33:30
know, the choice or that chooses to be founders, for example,
33:33
with some can argue as a privilege that, you know, tend
33:37
to be well educated and have, you know, live in the Western
33:42
environment. So I would say that in that's
33:45
context, our basic needs in the muscle hierarchy of needs are
33:49
satisfied. So I think once that's the case,
33:52
then yeah, it becomes a choice to want to move beyond the
33:56
status quo and and take some agency of your own life.
34:00
Yeah, yeah. I think it's.
34:04
Yeah. I'm just wondering if it's just
34:06
related to indeed meeting the magic needs of Maslov or if it's
34:12
also a way out. It's it like like the the brain
34:16
can't? You can tell the brain pretty
34:17
much everything you want because it will believe everything you
34:22
say. But then it always being aware
34:26
of thoughts and understanding that you have also agency in
34:29
that. Yeah, yeah, OK.
34:31
True. Yeah.
34:32
And for that, that, yeah, I don't know if it requires higher
34:36
education, but. Not necessarily, but it requires
34:39
awareness. All I'm saying is that, you
34:42
know, in some circumstances you're just trying to survive.
34:44
You're just getting, trying to get food on the table.
34:46
And it's, it's just a lot harder in these these circumstances to
34:49
do a lot, to do a lot of self actualization work and to really
34:55
have the room and the time and the the resources to question
34:58
certain ways of being and, and working.
35:00
Yeah. So going back to female founders
35:05
have for a bit, so many founders struggle.
35:09
I think you also said that at the beginning a struggle to
35:12
balance purpose where impact with profitability, especially I
35:17
think this is in the in the impact space, this plays a huge
35:20
role. So can I actually be a make a
35:23
profit? Am I allowed to make profit if
35:27
if I'm an impact? How do you help them achieve
35:32
both? How?
35:34
How do you get get that imbalance?
35:37
So yes, you can do this. Well.
35:40
First of all, one is need to see that purpose and profitability
35:44
don't have to be opposites, that they can actually reinforce each
35:48
other if you structure things right.
35:50
And I think one of the first steps in that is clarity.
35:53
So what's the like the most important non negotiable of your
35:58
mission? What are things that are just
36:00
nice to have? I'll give you an example.
36:02
In our case, at the time, we were very focused on on living
36:06
income, for example, yes, it was also important to be sustainable
36:11
and to be green. But if we had to choose, you
36:13
know, do we make an entirely green products, it's your two
36:17
emissions or the whole shebang and focus on living wage or
36:22
living income, then we would have not have any chance in the
36:26
market. So it's around like what's
36:28
understanding? Also, what's your core, your
36:31
core mission, your core non negotiable and that I often
36:34
would say make a KPI out of it because if it's, if it's impact
36:38
in a way also need needs to be and can be measured because if
36:42
it's a measurable, tangible something, it's integrated into
36:45
your core business model. So then it becomes easier.
36:48
The the more, let's say units you sell off something or the
36:51
more software you, you get out there, the impact increases with
36:56
that in parallel, right. So it's about understanding to
37:00
to no longer dilute your purpose with side projects or things
37:04
that don't actually move the business forward.
37:08
And then I think secondly, it's also realizing that
37:12
profitability is a fuel for the mission.
37:15
It's not a betraying of the mission, it's fuel for it.
37:18
So for example, if you want fair wages in your supply chain, you
37:22
need healthy margins in order to pay them.
37:24
So if you want to innovate sustainably, you need cash to
37:27
invest. So profit in that sense becomes
37:30
more of like I would say the oxygen for purpose.
37:34
And I would and I always bring it back again to the energy
37:37
management. If, well, if the founder is
37:40
depleted because it's trying to save the world all by by her or
37:44
himself by that company will reflect that.
37:48
So it's also around coaching them to manage not like not only
37:53
financial capital, but human capital, their own energy is an
37:55
actual resource. How do you scale sustainable you
37:59
that a business that feeds your mission, but also your
38:03
well-being and therefore also profitability in the long term.
38:06
So it's it's not isolated, it's all works in in tandem.
38:10
Yeah. So what do you say then to
38:11
people who say, oh, but you want to make an impact, a positive
38:15
impact, so then you have to do this for free.
38:19
No, it's bullshit. I mean, then you're going to,
38:20
you're going to be stopping after one year and the impact's
38:22
done. I mean, it takes, I think
38:24
they're worth the impact. It takes time to actually have
38:27
an impact. I think even after, you know,
38:30
all of this being around now for maybe 9 years, I don't think our
38:34
impact is that insignificant. Let's be honest.
38:37
It's still, it's always a small, you know, drop on them.
38:41
What do you call in the ocean? So I think by yeah, doing.
38:44
Things for free or? It's just you're just setting
38:47
yourself up for failure and therefore you're never going to
38:49
create any impact in the 1st place.
38:51
No, it's in the system. We live in a capitalist system.
38:53
And you know, as the young, we try to fight the system for a
38:57
long time and then eventually you just have to accept this the
38:59
system when yes, we can change things.
39:00
But in the baseline, we are we're operating in a monetary
39:04
system, so. Yeah.
39:06
Need to play the game? So how can founders make, let's
39:10
say, small shifts to to both scale successfully and
39:17
profitably and at the same time avoid the hustle we're having
39:22
having to to hustle too hard? Because I don't think hustle in
39:27
itself is necessarily bad. If you, let's say, if you have a
39:30
Sprint to, to a finish line, then working hard just there's
39:36
no, no problem with that. But your point is more like if
39:39
you do it consistently then you're burning yourself out.
39:44
Yeah, I think. I think even the word hustle, I
39:46
think for me also means resourcefulness.
39:51
So I mean just making something out of nothing, right?
39:53
I mean, I think it's incredible. It's an incredible trade.
39:56
You know, many of those have. So I agree, nothing wrong with
39:59
it in particular, but it's because it starts when we try to
40:03
chase is everything being done? Is that success that every
40:07
completed everything or? Is it about did I actually move
40:11
the needle on what matters today, right?
40:13
Is that actually what I've been focused on?
40:16
And I mean, I was in that trap too.
40:18
Like did she all the founders, that's actually why they come to
40:22
me there. I can look at their calendar and
40:25
like more than half of that can go immediately because it's just
40:28
margin busy work. It's not actually moving the
40:31
needle. And that might require having a
40:33
shitty website for a while. It might require, you know,
40:37
yeah, sacrificing other parts of the business, but it's really
40:39
understanding what does that success look like every day.
40:43
It's not about having an empty jewelist.
40:45
That's just impossible. Yeah.
40:47
And I think as well much as important is just to have to
40:49
really protect some space for yourself.
40:52
I always say, like, blog at least one morning or maybe even
40:55
2 hours a week where there's no meetings, no laptop.
40:59
You're just breathing, thinking, maybe going on a walk.
41:02
And that's really when like the biggest idea is yet, it's really
41:06
when things integrate, come together, solutions appear and
41:10
it's really around as well, like zooming out and looking at am I,
41:14
am I still focused on the mission?
41:15
Am I, are we still locked in, you know, and that possible to
41:20
to fuel or ask yourself that without any space in your
41:23
calendar. So I think these are really
41:26
important things to do. And yeah.
41:29
So there there are, let's say folk make a list of things that
41:34
really matter versus things that are quote UN quote night nights
41:38
to have. I usually work with with Moscow.
41:40
So must have, should have, could have, would have and would have
41:47
is are the the things that you don't need to be busy with at
41:51
all. And then the second thing I
41:53
heard you say is, is carve out time for yourself to really
41:57
reflect just by the way is, is that time for yourself?
42:01
Is that the time that you can spend in a gym or is that really
42:05
idle time as in not doing anything?
42:09
Ideally it's idle time yeah, because even in the gym, like
42:13
we're still performing, right? We're still focused on a certain
42:16
outcome and goal and and things. So I think it's more around
42:20
like, yeah, I don't this is it's scary for a lot of people.
42:23
So I mean, doesn't the whole morning, but you know, go, go
42:27
for a walk, go have a coffee with yourself in town and just,
42:30
yeah, just be, just be there and see what what arises.
42:35
It's for the magic happens. Yeah.
42:37
So how do you go, just briefly going back to the energy
42:42
management, how you be, besides knowing your cycle as a woman,
42:47
how do you, let's say, find a good way to manage your energy?
42:56
Is that a matter of making a list of activities that give you
43:00
energy versus a list of activities that, well, you
43:05
pretty much hate so that will cost you energy?
43:08
Is it that simple or is there something else you need to do?
43:12
I think it's a great start. Again, I think it's never a
43:15
problem of not there being enough.
43:18
You know, there's so many notebooks, there's all these
43:19
lists and things you can do, but it's, that's much easier than
43:23
actually checking in with your body, tuning in and being like a
43:27
where is my energy at right now? What I have planned for the rest
43:32
of the day doesn't make sense. Is there anything I can do?
43:35
Is there maybe you know, a way to kind of take a few minutes if
43:39
it's just 2-3 minutes, go outside, sit in the sun, do a
43:42
bit of breath work. So it's around.
43:43
It's, I think lists are definitely great and it's a good
43:46
for awareness, but it really comes down to consistently
43:49
throughout the day checking in with your state of being.
43:54
And that's, yeah, that's a physical check in, maybe feet on
43:58
the ground and really just feel yourself for a few seconds and,
44:01
and yeah, you will get a better understanding of where you at.
44:05
Yeah. And then then do you also do you
44:08
also take let's say notes about just to capture also how
44:15
progress? Yeah, you can.
44:18
I mean, I used to do a lot of that.
44:20
These days, I, I, I don't because that just feels like it
44:24
still feels very rational to me, But I think it's, I mean, it's
44:28
good to have an understanding what what drains me.
44:31
And then the next step is, is it necessary?
44:33
If it is, then can I delegate it?
44:37
So yes, and I think a list and, and is a great start for sure.
44:41
And, you know, there's all these energy trackers even in just
44:45
like ever know the notion have all these templates where you
44:47
can just keep track of things. So yeah, I think that's a great
44:51
things to do, especially for the more data-driven people out
44:54
there. And I mean, I, I right now my
44:57
life is so flexible and open that it's much easier for me to
45:02
to be able to work around my energy than it was like being,
45:05
you know, in the midst of building the business.
45:07
So it also depends of where you are in your life.
45:10
But yeah, I think understanding what energizes you and what
45:13
drains you is an incredible start, yeah.
45:16
Yeah. OK.
45:17
So what role does location play? And reason I'm asking is you're
45:22
in Portugal and you mentioned at the beginning that life is
45:26
slower there. Yeah.
45:27
I mean, let me be clear though, I think you can go to the most
45:30
remote tropical islands and you'd still take yourself with
45:33
you, right? So it's not like location is
45:36
magically going to fix everything.
45:38
For me. However, what I did, what I
45:40
realized living in the Netherlands, that nature is #1
45:46
for me, it's just the number one place where I feel connected,
45:49
where I feel home, where energized, and I was always
45:52
taking and having to take the car into nature.
45:55
I mean, the nature is not very rough necessarily in the
45:57
Netherlands either. So it's always like going into
46:00
nature briefly and I just wanted to be part of nature more on the
46:04
more consistent basis. And yeah, that for me was the
46:08
main reason that it became Portugal.
46:10
I'm have some family living here as well.
46:12
So it's just location certainly helps.
46:17
I'm surrounded by, you know, retired grade people most of the
46:21
time. Pace is just a lot slower.
46:24
People take time for lunch. I mean, just last Tuesday I was
46:28
briefly getting some dinner and there were bottles of wine on
46:30
the table at 10:00 PM Tuesday. Very normal.
46:33
It's just, yeah, part of that is location, sure, but I think I
46:37
could just just be as busy here if I wanted to because there's
46:40
no more. I have a Home Office now, so
46:42
there's no more border right between home and and work.
46:45
So technically I could sit down my laptop all day long even and
46:48
not have any time wasted in traffic, not have any time spent
46:51
on other things, so I could keep myself busy if I wanted.
46:54
To me, it was a non understanding.
46:58
What's the one thing I need to feel good, to feel connected, to
47:01
feel joyed, to feel creative, You know, what do I need for my
47:05
own personal definition of success?
47:07
And for me, that was nature. Yeah.
47:09
OK. And then you don't need to keep
47:13
yourself busy anymore. No, because I I mean I right now
47:17
I'm looking at the ocean and the sun is shine like when are we
47:19
done? I want to take out my paddle
47:21
board. OK, so I OK then.
47:23
I'm not going to keep you a lot longer because yeah, I'm joking.
47:29
But. No, of course.
47:30
Yeah, it's, yeah. It's easier to slow down, I have
47:33
to admit. Yes.
47:34
Yeah, No, no, no that, but that's what I figured you'd say.
47:39
That is, if if the the whole environment around you is is
47:42
slow, it makes it easier to slow down yourself and not to make
47:49
yourself busy. No at.
47:51
All cost, yeah. And I mean, there's always
47:54
sacrifices to it as well, right? I mean I'm you have to self
47:57
motivate a lot. More.
47:58
Because people around you are not necessarily having, you
48:01
know, huge ambitions or big dreams.
48:03
And it's comes needs to come from inside.
48:07
It's less, you know, less exposure around you.
48:09
I mean, I do go into the capital Lisbon regularly if I need my my
48:14
entrepreneur fix, but. It's yeah, it.
48:17
Becomes more of a choice, not instead of being in it the whole
48:19
time, but it's. I mean, I know some.
48:21
People that couldn't do the life I'm living, it's it's it's more,
48:25
yeah, it's in a way more solitary.
48:27
Even though I feel a lot less. Alone.
48:29
But it's, yeah, it's just a different life and it's not for
48:32
everyone. No, but it's sounds good to me
48:36
at least. So I.
48:39
Love it too. Yeah.
48:40
So you're also doing late leadership training and, and,
48:44
and also the for the mentoring work.
48:47
And I read on your website that you're working with subsidies.
48:51
So this is like a going back to funding for for a brief stint.
48:57
This is like one of the parts of entrepreneurship that is it
49:02
really explored at all. Yeah, I mean more and more, but
49:07
I I think subsidies have this image of feeling very
49:10
bureaucratic, very intimidating and very time consuming.
49:15
And yes, they are to some extent.
49:17
There's no such thing as free money up anymore.
49:20
And I think many founders think they don't have the bandwidth.
49:23
And in our particular we in the leadership ship work we are
49:27
offering, we could see that it just didn't always.
49:29
First of all, it's not always a priority, even though I'm really
49:32
believe it should be. And there's a lot of stress over
49:34
budgets, right? So we were like, OK, then can we
49:37
tap into existing subsidies to take away that the budget
49:40
stress? And I really think that
49:42
leadership work and development shouldn't be a luxury, it should
49:46
be a necessity. So.
49:48
We. Decided let us you know, look
49:50
into the subsidies available and make it more accessible and we
49:54
you know by simplifying the process.
49:56
We offer the completely done for you support.
49:59
And we just show also people that money is actually out there
50:04
to support you, you just need to know how to access it.
50:08
So yeah, that's that's one of the solution we found to make
50:11
sure that more people were actually prioritizing leadership
50:14
work. Yeah, but then also to to help
50:18
people. Of course.
50:19
I mean, it's, I think the work is so powerful.
50:22
I mean the, the subsidies, the vehicle, right?
50:24
It's just a way to make it possible.
50:27
But it's the way it works, you know, is in the actual, in the
50:30
actual, yeah, in the actual leadership work.
50:32
So I don't do it. I I don't facilitate myself.
50:35
We have. A group of really experienced
50:38
facilitators and strategists. So it's more around I facilitate
50:42
the access to. Funding around it, yeah.
50:44
OK, so you you deal with the bureaucracy, so to say.
50:50
It's. Germany, me, that goes very well
50:52
on it. Yeah, yeah, OK, OK, well, well,
50:56
at least then it's done gruntly. Yes, very gruntly.
51:00
OK hey, I want to move towards slowly towards the end I read
51:07
that you believe that the future belongs to women who lead with
51:11
heart and strength. So what then?
51:17
Given that, what does leadership look like in let's?
51:21
Say 10 years from now. If we have more women who
51:25
actually do that leadership that way.
51:28
Yeah, I think it's not about just having more women, it's
51:32
about having women that, you know, can lead from the heart
51:36
and and and in from their strengths.
51:38
So what I mean by that, I really imagine 10 years from now that
51:41
the boardrooms intuition is just as much valued as much as data,
51:47
for example, in the boardroom. So it's not just about the data,
51:49
it's about what are we as individuals in this room right
51:52
now? What's this our intuition say?
51:54
What do you that we actually got excited about?
51:56
So it's around intuition be playing a more important role.
52:01
It's around decisions that balance profitability with
52:07
planetary and human well-being. And it's, I think it's a space
52:11
where women don't have to toughen up to be taken
52:14
seriously, but they can actually lead with their truth, with
52:18
empathy, creativity, with resilience.
52:22
I mean, I think Justin Daoudon is a great.
52:24
The ex Prime Minister of New Zealand is a great.
52:26
Example of that. I love to have book on a podcast
52:29
where it's really about like empathy is her was her number
52:32
one principle in leadership. And I think, yeah, that's the
52:36
way, you know, way to to move. Forward and I think strength
52:41
will mean. Beings like reading from
52:44
strength means that you're grounded in values, and leading
52:48
from the heart means that you are daring to build differently.
52:52
You're not just squeezing into an old mold, but you're daring
52:55
to make different choices. And in 10 years from now, I hope
52:59
that these are things that have become very commonplace in the
53:03
boardroom and beyond. Yes.
53:05
So why do we then? You think we rely heavily on on
53:09
data? Are we afraid of of that
53:13
intuition part? Yeah, I mean, data is safe,
53:16
right? In some extent.
53:18
You can always blame it on the data afterwards.
53:20
It's yeah, it's it's, I would say more accepted and and and
53:26
accessible to some people. But data never tells the full
53:30
story. I've seen too many examples of
53:34
businesses founders making very irrational choices that lead to
53:40
exceptional outcomes and data would not have gotten in there.
53:46
And it's just, I think it's about normalizing that and it
53:48
would acquire some guts and confidence to be able to rely on
53:52
your intuition. And again, that in turn requires
53:56
being more connected to your body.
53:57
Yeah. Is is there a specifically
54:01
female trait to also that intuition?
54:04
Because I hear that a lot. Yeah, I think inherently women
54:10
are more connected to the Earth. We're caregivers, we birth
54:15
literally. I mean some literally, some
54:18
don't. But like we, we, we birth new
54:21
life, new ideas. It's it's a yes.
54:24
I think it comes easier to many women.
54:27
But at the same time, I think men have also have access to
54:29
intuition for sure. But for all irrelevant of
54:32
gender, intuition can only speak when we slow down.
54:39
Intuition doesn't scream, it's quite quiet, it's quiet.
54:42
So don't allow any quiet in your life, then intuition is probably
54:46
not going to be heard. So yeah, it's it all starts from
54:51
the inside out again. Sounds like a beautiful place to
54:55
move to. My last two questions.
54:58
So just Speaking of building a better future, what we've been
55:05
talking about funding of female founders.
55:10
What can investors do better to support female founders?
55:15
Also to, to I, I was not going to use the word protect, but I'm
55:22
because I'm lost for words. I'm going to use it anyway to
55:25
protect them from hustling too hard.
55:29
I think it's it's trust again. It's trust.
55:32
It means if you as a, I mean, it's you work as a team, right,
55:36
investors, founders, and it's around accepting, setting a
55:41
vision that everyone keep on and then letting go, right?
55:45
And then trusting that, you know, with the right type of
55:48
interventions and things that things will work out.
55:52
And that it's not about the founder being constantly on and
55:56
working and send you emails at midnight, but it's around like,
55:58
is the founder still tapped into the mission, whatever that looks
56:02
like? It's the founder still
56:03
energized, still able to make good choice, good decisions,
56:07
because the founder feels, you know, feels well resourced.
56:12
And I think many investors are waking up to that for sure.
56:15
I think we've had some great ones in our business as well
56:18
that we're very much concerned about our well-being.
56:20
Because I mean, let's be honest, in the first probably in 10
56:24
years or or maybe less, the founders are still the biggest
56:27
asset. So it's as a smart investor,
56:30
you, you safeguard that asset in any way you can.
56:35
That requires the founder to take some time off, then that is
56:38
what needs to be done. Well, it's, it's, it's looking
56:41
at the bigger picture. It's beyond just the KPIs again,
56:43
right. You're entering, you're entering
56:46
a marriage together in a way. So it's, it's not about, I mean,
56:49
it again, depends on type of investors.
56:51
Of course. If you look at the VC business
56:53
model, it's just the model that's it's a crazy business
56:56
model. So like we said, it's all about,
56:58
you know, chasing that Unicorn and already knowing that more
57:01
than 90% will not make it. But it's, I think it's just that
57:06
one part of the ecosystem. There's so many other ways, so
57:09
much other sources of money out there.
57:11
And we see landscape is also changing.
57:13
So, yeah, so I'm looking, looking further, yeah.
57:18
OK, so with women in Disrupting tech, I'm building a tool that
57:22
connects female founders with investors in a better way.
57:26
So so a helping them with, let's say, optimize their
57:31
storytelling, but also connecting them to investors
57:35
that actually match with them. From your perspective, what is
57:41
an important ingredient to make that work for female founders
57:45
particularly? I mean, I would say it's two
57:47
things. It's data and it's design of the
57:49
of also, I mean logically speaking, if you train AI on
57:53
biased historical data, then we're just reproducing the same
57:56
patterns. I think it's about needing
58:00
diverse input from founders themselves.
58:03
What do they value in investors? What kind of support do they
58:06
actually need? And I think then it's also about
58:09
the design of the tools. So is there enough transparency?
58:13
Like why, for example, I can imagine why are certain matches
58:17
or recommendations made, for example?
58:19
I think it's that combination of getting input from this, from
58:23
the actual stakeholders and also being, you know, having a
58:27
transparent open system that yeah, that that shows what's
58:32
going on behind it. Yeah, and also also explaining
58:35
then the recommendations. Yeah, yeah, of.
58:39
Course. And yeah, I think that's a great
58:41
one. I think I see a lot of, I mean,
58:44
there's these tools now that you can select on founders that are
58:47
interested in, in, you know, investing into female ownership
58:51
and leadership. But I think a lot of these tools
58:54
are still a bit short sighted because then you are just
58:58
filtering on the gender. You're not filtering on, on like
59:03
other things that matter. I mean, in, in, in essence, it
59:05
shouldn't matter that you're a woman.
59:07
It does still, but it's, it's about like looking beyond the
59:11
gender, right? And it's taking away these
59:13
biases. I think sometimes we have to be
59:15
careful. And I mean, we're doing this
59:17
with our one man and woman platform as well, but to be
59:19
careful not to emphasize the woman only approach too much
59:24
either. I think it's in that balance.
59:27
OK. So, so why, why shouldn't we
59:31
overemphasize, let me tell you where I'm coming from.
59:35
So I think there's, there's this pendulum that is swinging left
59:39
and right and right now it's really on the on let's say the
59:44
right side of the spectrum where male domination etcetera.
59:48
So I want to get it to the left side a bit.
59:51
So for the for that to happen, I have to start pulling really on
59:55
the, let's say, almost ultra left side of the spectrum.
1:00:00
Is is it so? So that's why I was thinking
1:00:03
like, let's first start with the women.
1:00:05
And then indeed, in the end, I think the tool should benefit
1:00:09
both men and women. Don't get me wrong.
1:00:12
No, I'm not saying I think it's, I think because just because the
1:00:15
Bayers that are there, that woman, there's needs to be more
1:00:19
support. I think that's great.
1:00:20
Nothing wrong with that. I mean more when it comes more
1:00:23
about like matching messes just with a woman because she's a
1:00:26
woman versus matching investor because there's adna fit right
1:00:30
or there's a like that investor actually believes in the vision,
1:00:34
the idea. And I think it's going beyond
1:00:36
the gender. That's I agree with your point
1:00:39
that yeah, at this point, we still we just need to dismantle
1:00:43
the way things are done now. And that requires maybe more of
1:00:46
a, yeah, I would say maybe extreme swing of the pendulum
1:00:50
than, you know, to to actually somewhere end up somewhere in
1:00:53
the middle. And that's where ultimately we
1:00:55
need to end up, I think. Falidi Herschhauser, thank you
1:00:58
very much. Good pronunciation.
1:01:00
Thank you for an Yeah, thanks very much for an amazing
1:01:03
conversation. Where can listeners find more
1:01:08
find out more about you and about the programs that you
1:01:12
offer and how to apply for subsidies, etcetera?
1:01:17
Say the best place is LinkedIn. Valerie Herschhauser, My name, I
1:01:22
share pretty openly about leadership and scaling impact
1:01:24
businesses, things like that. And 1,000,000 women.
1:01:27
That's one millionwomen.com is where we support founders and of
1:01:32
all genders, actually, with leadership training, with
1:01:34
coaching, with funding tools like subsidies and make sure
1:01:38
that everyone's getting the leadership support that they
1:01:40
deserve. Yeah.
1:01:42
Wonderful. And we'll include those things
1:01:44
in the show notes. Great.
1:01:46
Thank you Dick, Valerie Hershouser, thank you very much
1:01:49
for an amazing conversation. Listeners.
1:01:53
Thank you very much for listening.
1:01:54
And until the next episode, when hopefully my voice will have
1:01:58
recovered, keep being awesome. Well, that's it.
1:02:06
Thank you for listening to episode 135 of Women Disrupting
1:02:10
Tech titled Moving Beyond the Hustle as a female founder with
1:02:14
Valerie. Hershouser.
1:02:16
I hope this episode helped you see that you don't need to be
1:02:20
hustling continuously to build a sustainable company, and that
1:02:25
when things get feel exhausting, it's not a personal failure but
1:02:29
often a sign that something in the system is not aligned.
1:02:33
One of the moments that made me pause was Valerie's take on
1:02:36
intuition as legitimate asset in the boardroom, especially in
1:02:40
environments where data is treated as the only say for
1:02:44
input. Which made me wonder, which
1:02:46
moments stood out to you? Was it the idea of hustle as a
1:02:51
system glitch, the shift from time management to energy
1:02:55
management, or the question of what kind of investors actually
1:02:59
fit your business and values? Let me know your thoughts in the
1:03:02
comments on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
1:03:07
If you want to connect with Faladi or learn more about your
1:03:10
work with 1,000,000 women, you can find all the relevant links
1:03:13
in the show notes. And as usual, you can find the
1:03:16
show notes and women disrupting tech talk block via the link in
1:03:19
the caption. If you found this episode usual,
1:03:23
I have a question for you. Please take a moment to rate and
1:03:26
review the show on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or YouTube.
1:03:30
And if you haven't already, please hit the subscribe button
1:03:34
so you never miss a future episode.
1:03:36
Once again, thank you for listening.
1:03:38
I hope to see you in your next episode.
1:03:40
And until then, as always, keep being awesome.