Latest / Dadical / 4. Stillbirth, Grief, and Taking Off the Mask as a Dad | Taz Harding

Transcript

4. Stillbirth, Grief, and Taking Off the Mask as a Dad | Taz Harding · Dadical

• Seth Stoker: Welcome to the Dadical Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Stoker. On today's episode, we're going to hear from a dad who's willing to admit the fatherhood isn't always rainbows and butterflies. Most men, when they go through something devastating, put on a mask. they push things down and tell themselves they've dealt with it. And they simply grit their teeth and keep trying to move forward. My guest today did exactly that. And for six years it cost him more than he realized. this is Taz Harding giving us one of the most honest and vulnerable conversations about grief, marriage, and fatherhood that I've ever had. Here's Taz. All right, Taz. Hey, welcome to the Dadical Podcast. Really excited to have you today. And really we'd love to just get to know you first, get to know your your family, your background. Go ahead and give us an introduction to the Taz Harding family. Taz Harding: Well, I'm excited to be to be on the podcast with you today, Seth. I know we've known each other for man, how long have we known each other? What? Five, six years, maybe, maybe even more than that. Seth Stoker: Eight. Taz Harding: Eight years. man, yeah, it has been eight years. I wish I haven't, but yeah. So a little bit more about me. I'm 31 years old. my wife and I Seth Stoker: Just a pop. Taz Harding: yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife and I have been married for Man, going on eight years in January will be eight years. And we have we have three little boys actually. So we have a five year old, we have a two and a half year old, and we have a four month old. So we're still in that new baby phase, not sleeping as much. I'm sleeping, obviously, but my wife not sleeping. Seth Stoker: Three three boys, that's absolute chaos. Taz Harding: yeah, it really is. It really is. But I do you I don't I can't remember. Do you have brothers or sisters? Seth Stoker: Yeah, I have two brothers and a sister. Taz Harding: So the boys, I grew up with four brothers. Or so there's five, there's five boys in my family. So having three boys is like normal for me, but raising them is completely different from having brothers. Like when I was having when I was when I was growing up, having brothers, we just punch each other and we get over it, you know? But kids, I just can't punch them. So you gotta you gotta talk with them. You gotta make sure their emotions are taken care of, they're young, but they are We'll talk about this more, but they are literally the highlight of every single day that I have. but a little bit more about me and from LA originally, lived there for twenty years. I'm L E S. I served a mission in the Caribbean, so lived there for a couple of years as well, and then came home, played some basketball for a couple of colleges and then moved up to U moved up to Utah for one of those and then just never left. Met my wife. Now we have three kids and and a mortgage that's making me stay here. So That's a little bit about me. Seth Stoker: Very nice. And I always brag that I'm one of the few people who are able to lock Taz up on the basketball court, but that's probably a different podcast episode. Well Taz Harding: Whoa, yeah. Ouch. You know what though? Just to give a compliment to you, Seth. You are actually a pretty good ball player. Even though we haven't played in years. I remember you. You're good. You're good. Seth Stoker: I'm old now, man. I I move a lot slower than I used to. But Taz Harding: Yeah. Seth Stoker: but with Taz and I have had some fun battles on the basketball court. Taz Harding: Hello. Seth Stoker: Taz, I I I thanks for introducing us to your to your family and and obviously with with three kids under the age of five, th things I imagine are are a little hectic right now as a dad. But you know what? There there's seasons to fatherhood, right? And and it's funny how you know, me now wi with kids who are all significantly older, I look back and I think about how hectic it felt at the time, but also how amazing it was to be able to s like see your kids grow and and learn and kind of get their little personalities and things like that. And it's it's a fun season, even though it's a crazy season, it's a fun season that you're in. But I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit more. Let's let's back up a little bit though. I'd love to learn more about how you were raised, your relationship with your dad and your parents, and maybe how some of those things played into the father that you became. Taz Harding: Yeah. What do you want to know specifically? Seth Stoker: l let's start with y you mentioned you had you said four brothers? No sisters? Taz Harding: Yeah. Yeah. No sisters. Nope. Seth Stoker: Okay, so so what was that household like growing up and and tell me about your relationship with your dad? Taz Harding: We grew up in a as you could expect with four boys, just absolute chaos. Every brother that we had that I had played multiple sports multiple times of the year. And I when I think back to my family, I think of two things when I'm growing up. I think of all the sports that we played. And then I think of all the activities that we did. Sorry, three things. All the sports we played, all the activities we we did. outside of sports and we'll talk about those. And then I and then I think about you know, church, actually. Those are the three things when I look back at my childhood that were just the highlights. and the things that really defined us. You know, and I'll kind of dive into it, but we everyone played multiple sports. In high school, I played football, basketball, volleyball. and most of my brothers were along those same the same though those same lines. Football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, we all played kind of similar sports. So growing up it was really fun where when I was, you know, when I was six, seven years old, eight years old, I'm watching my oldest brother play varsity, varsity football, going under the lights. And I remember for over a decade, we had somebody playing playing under the lights, Friday night football, and going and supporting my brothers. Every single game. Like that was that was some of the highlights of my week when I was younger was just going and supporting my family and supporting my brothers, even if they didn't play a lot, supporting the team that they played, they played for. So that was a highlight and something that really defined me. And I think secondly to that too, all the activities you did were Boy Scouts. So we're we're all Eagle Scouts. And so can constantly camping, constantly You know, going shooting, we're throwing knives, we're canoeing, we're going on crazy trips and backpacking and things like that. and and then church too. I mean, we're all active. We all went to church every single week. Not always to our to our choice sometimes, but our parents raised us right. We're you know, they raised us what what what we what they would prefer us to do, and then we kind of make our decision from there, right? And I say all that to say that and I'm kind of an emotional guy, so if I like start breaking down a little bit, I apologize. My my wife always says she likes it, but I kinda hate it. My dad was always, always Every activity. Not to say that my mom wasn't. I know this is kind of the dad ago daddy go pod podcast. My mom was always there too. But my dad was on every outing, every camp every camp out that we went to, every activity that I went to, every game that I had, even like half of the practices, I s I swear he was there sometimes, like showing up at the end after work, coming dressed up in his collar. There at every activity. He was leader. He was a leader in in church activities for me. So he was always someone that I really looked up to. but I could I think I think back and I say my dad, one thing that about him, he was always there and always present in everything that we did. Seth Stoker: So clearly that's important to you. What impact did that have on you? Taz Harding: Well, I think I think I always was able to share those moments with him. You know, i if you think maybe on the opposite side of the spectrum, when you have a dad and it's not it's okay like your dad's not at everything. My dad was like really present in every activity. Emotionally, that's a whole nother story. He always jokes about like how he has like zero emotions. He just likes to have fun, you know. But but if you think of the other side of the spectrum where like a dad isn't there, right? And maybe and that was that was true for some of the boys that we went on, you know, camp outside with or like kids that didn't have their their dads coming to their games or tournaments or whatever it may be. I go home after those camp outs and we just reminisce with him. You know, we tell my mom all the stories, we tell my brothers all the crazy things that happened and all the fun times that happened and the scary things that happened and all that. And those memories, like they live on forever. And having somebody to share that with and to reminisce with and to have that connection with is like something that you can. kind of never replace. And so when I when I think in terms of my own kids, and we'll probably get into this more, like that's something that has ri that really impacted me that I want to make sure I do with my children as well. Seth Stoker: It's pretty clear that having a a father present in your life has a big impact. I guess I want to dig deeper a little bit into that because obviously it was special to you that he was always there, that he that you had that support and and that presence in your life. But why do you think it makes such a difference to have a dad in your life like that? Taz Harding: The the first thing that comes to my mind is the word alone. Because I feel like as I sorry if you can hear kids in the background, they're just running crazy. I don't know if you can or not. Seth Stoker: I can't it's all good. Taz Harding: Okay. They're just crazy. my two year old's learning to talk, so it's it's all he's just like blurting out everything, right? When going back to your question, I think the word alone comes to mind. and I and I think that comes to mind because, you know, as as someone that might not have a father that's either as present as they want them to be, I think you just start to feel alone. You don't have someone to share moments and memories with. And if you look back at your childhood and you don't have any any memories, moments, whether, you know, scary, happy, sad, emotional, you know, going through something, whatever it may be. Like I feel like you kind of start to be alone and you feel like nobody sees you. Or that that person that you probably you know, I'm a male, he's male, that male father figure, you you feel like no one, you feel like they they don't see you. And if that one of the most important people in your life doesn't see you, you start to feel alone. And it's actually a lesson I've learned a lot recently. a lot. So maybe we can dive into Seth Stoker: What do you mean? Taz Harding: I went on this men's retreat a couple of a couple of weeks ago, two about two months ago. And it was with with Chandler Hendry with and I don't know if you know that name. He actually just recently passed away last week. Seth Stoker: Do. Taz Harding: which has been which has just been a heartbreaker for me, to be honest. Channel because Chandler is such a an inspiration to me, another, another male inspiration. But we went on a men's retreat with him and he put this thing on, his first one. and unfortunately his only one. and hopefully we can help with that on. But hit the whole the whole purpose of that retreat was the this idea of a mask. that especially men and just but just people in general, especially men, we put on a front, we put on a mask, essentially hiding what's going on. emotionally, mentally, spiritually, we we don't show people what's going on. And when we don't do that, we keep the best part of ourselves from the people we love the most a lot. So for my wife, for example, right? If I'm not opening up to my wife, I'm not letting her see what's going on in my mind, in my heart, in my life, I don't feel seed. And so when we bring that back to like and feeling seen makes you feel like you're connected with your wife. You have a special connection beyond just the wedding ring and maybe some kids that you are each other's best friends, you are each other's rocks, you're each other's motivations. And when you bring that back to the aspect of having a a father figure that is present and versus non-present. You don't have that connection anymore and you start to feel alone. You start doing life alone if with your wife, if you're not letting her in, you're doing your life alone, you're essentially living a separated life. And it's sad because you start to go through trials by yourself. You start feeling, you start making mistakes and that shame and that guilt br creeps into your life and nobody even knows about it. And you start to feel so alone. depressed and anxious and why am I here? Seth Stoker: so so th thanks for sharing that experience. I I think it it's still, even though it seems like it's it's coming up more and more now, and I think people are realizing the the male loneliness challenge or or or epidemic that that I think is is maybe being acknowledged more and more these days. You don't hear a lot of people actually open up about it, and it sounds like you really needed that connection. Taz Harding: One hundred percent. One hundred percent. Seth Stoker: Let's go back to your dad. I love how present he was in your life. And you could see like he rushed over after work and things like that. I think that's really amazing. And I I can see how that can have a big impact on you. What did he teach you? Taz Harding: He taught me how not to shoot a basketball. My dad's not the best shooter. So I'd say that's probably one. I'm just kidding. He Seth Stoker: Haha. Dang, I thought I taught you that, man. Taz Harding: was not a three point shooter. He's not a three point shooter. By example, he taught me how to shoot a basketball, but he was not the great ex example of shooting a basketball. hopefully he hears that and says, What? I one one example really sticks out to me. and it's following promptings, following feelings. And if you want to take this back back to a spiritual level, right, following the spirit for me, right? But following that gut feeling that you have is one thing that that has stuck with me throughout the years. And I'll kind of share an experience if that's okay. When Seth Stoker: Please. Taz Harding: Man, how old was I? I think I was maybe 16 or 17 years old. then my little brother was probably 14 or so. we went on this this river rafting trip up in up in Northern California. I think it was on the American Fork River. I think that's what it's called. long time. And it was it was an amazing experience. My dad was obviously there. He went to We called it a high adventure trip. We went with our scout troop. we went with our scout troop every year on like a three to five day high adventure trip. we went places like Zion's, we went river rafting, we went we went all over. and this year we went river rafting and we have everywhere from twelve to eighteen year olds there. So it's kind of the the young men that are in like our ward or our church, but is in our scout group as well. And my dad came and we were on the river. the first day, and man, it was just an absolute blast. You know, having my dad next to me, having my brother in the in the the raft next to me, and we were able to hang out and just have a good time with 25 other boys. It was just an amazing experience, just in and of itself. But the second day we were actually getting on a raft or getting on the raft for the day. We just had breakfast, we're we just cleaned up and we were deciding like who goes in each other's raft, right? And I have my older brother there and and my dad. And I go up to him because he was for part for most of the day before he was in, I think he was in my my my younger brother's raft, which is you know, which is explainable. He he's younger, he wants to make sure he's safe, right? Take care of him. And I'm older, I'm definitely wiser, not not less mature at all. And I go up to him and I go, like, Dad, do you want to come into my raft today? And I could see on his face that he something was like stirring with inside of him. And at that exact same moment, I got the same feeling. That like, why did you ask that question? Like, don't ask that question. Let your dad go with your brother. And I could see physically, like he felt that too. And I just let it go. I didn't like, dad, like please come. I want you to come into my raft, right? So we I could tell that we both had that feeling. And later when we were going on this this going down the river. Amazing time, amazing weather, really cool rapids. There's this one rapid that's like really small. And I think this is a metaphor for life that maybe we can dive into. But the raft was pretty small. Or the sorry, the rapid was pretty small. And the guide goes, Hey, like who wants to be what we call our bow princess? Now this one's like super small. You can just hold on to the side. you don't need to be strapped in or anything. Like, just have your feet just hang over, you'll be okay. And my brother raises his hand, like, I want to be the bow princess. And so that she allows him to do it. She goes on, he goes on the the front of the raft. But there is one thing about that rap, that rapid that could go very wrong is that there's a massive rock in the middle. Actually to the side. And if you hit that rock, you'll get stuck. It'll should suck you under. So you have to go to the left. You have to make a wide left and go through the rapids. It's really easy. It's like a one. Right. For some reason, the raft went to the right. And I don't know if just the people on the left are stronger or paddling faster or what, but for some reason went to the right and it hit the rock. And my brother went under the water. And so now he's in between the rock and the rapids with thousands of gallons of water just rushing at him. And all of a sudden, my dad reaches in and just pulls him out. And after that, after that, we just we went on through our day. And at the end, we all reflected on this, this moment of of strength, of listening, of all of this. My dad shouldn't have been able to pull him out of that water. He was stuck. I don't know what the term is. My dad's a water guy. I'm not a water guy. Thousands and thousands. He's a he is a water guy. So he knows like like the strength of those, the water that's going on. He and where he was positioned, he wouldn't have been able to pull him out. And and my dad and I both to this day, like we talk about sometimes the feeling that both of us got when I asked, can you come in my rapid instead of my brother's? And it's something that has stuck with me that you need to listen to the feelings that you have. And in my case, listen to the spirit. That is telling you promptings. And that one was like an abrupt one. Sometimes it's not as abrupt, but it's telling you that for a reason. And then I think another lesson for that is stay ready. stay ready to help. If my dad wasn't physically active, if he wasn't someone that works out all the time, strong, you know, in shape, probably would not have been able to pull. And somebody else that that went into that. that boat with my brother probably would not have been able to pull him out. And so listening to your gut feelings, listening to the spirit has been something that he he's instilled with me for for a long time. And that's kind of a long story. Seth Stoker: Sounds like your th No, I I think it's a great story, but it sounds like your thought is is is and maybe just to summarize a little bit is he very easily could have just said, Yeah, sure, Tez, I'll jump in with you this time and and, you know, we'll go together today. But he felt really strongly for whatever reason that he needed to go back into the raft with your brother. So Taz Harding: Hundred percent. It would have made sense. Like, hey, you were with him most of the day yesterday. Like, why don't you come into my rap? Right. Seth Stoker: Right, right. Dang, that's a wild experience, man. Taz Harding: Yeah. That's something that stuck with me for a long time. Long time. Seth Stoker: Were you right there, like you were able to see the whole thing? Taz Harding: I saw the whole thing happen. I was I was literally riding by. They were over there and we were just riding by because they got stuck. We were right behind them and then we rode by and I I remember physically saying my brother's name, just yelling. Danner. Seth Stoker: Wow. Taz Harding: It's a scary moment. Seth Stoker: Wow. Well let's fast forward a little bit. You so you learned some valuable lessons from your dad. What's your relationship with him like with him like now as you're a dad? Taz Harding: it's great. It really is. and I see I say that because my dad, it's funny, he's not necessarily the person that's like giving you advice all the time, or like telling you what to do or or anything like that. He him and I have very cer very similar personalities where we just want to have fun all the time. If you've done some personality tests, I think we did some at, you know, when we worked together, I'm kind of like the parrot, right? The person who just likes to talk to like to have fun. And some other like personality tests, I forget what it's called. I'm a seven. So I'm like the enthusiast, right? So nothing's going wrong any at any time. We're all good. We're just having a party. We're here to have fun. And he's pretty similar to that. So we share that. Seth Stoker: Seven feels high, Taz. I I I have you about a 4.5. Just kidding. Taz Harding: Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you're if I'm a four point five, man, like you're you're looking you're like I was gonna say you're an eight. I was gonna Seth Stoker: Hey, I'm a strong three and a half. Taz Harding: say you just bought yourself down. But I'm a seven, I'm an enthusiast, we're all good all the time, there's no problems, we're good, right? at least that's what my therapy s therapist says. But we're very similar in that aspect. So we always have a good time. but my dad is very pe present with my children too, specifically. And he has a lot of grandkids he's he's present with. but I think it and I hate to say this maybe on a public channel, but I I feel like my my relationship with with my dad was probably like a lot different than most of my brothers. and And I hope that each one of them says that. And they probably do, which is, I think is another testimony to like how my dad treated each of us individually really well. But my dad specifically spent a lot of time training with me for sports. which I don't think I saw that. I'm the fourth of five boys. And so by the time he got to me, there's only two kids at home. So he's like, either I just watch TV or go work out, or like, let's just go train. And I think that. That probably played a role in it a role in it. So I apologize for the rest of my brothers who maybe didn't have that all the time. Maybe they didn't. I just didn't see it. But like he spent hours with me in the church gym shooting shots and making sure I was the best shooter that I could be, helping me dribble. he put me in speed training so I could be faster. he purchased a a college slash NFL quarterback coach to train me. actually two different ones. They were brothers. thousands and thousands of dollars probably. and so I think that's special that we were just able to spend that extra, that extra time together. And then that translated into now. And I think because we had that special relationship, I think he has that special relationship with my children as well, where I feel like my dad and I are very similar in a lot of aspects. And I raised my children probably very similarly to how he would have re he raised his children. And so I feel like we have that special bond with our kids. And I'm sure my brothers will say the same thing about their kids, which is great. I'm just talking about my from my perspective. And so he was always there. Every time my kids come over, I feel like I don't even see my dad half the time because he just takes them down to the basement and just playing basketball or playing a video game that he doesn't want to play, or like wrestling with them, playing how and go seek, playing up the makeup games that they play. It's it's really fun to see that like my dad is just taking on that. And is amazing. My kids absolutely love going and seeing we call him Pop. That's his name. So they love going and seeing Pop and ask all the time. And it's never a drag, they never feel uncomfortable at their house or whatever. they always love going and seeing him. Seth Stoker: It's interesting that a large part of your experience with your dad was participating in sports and things like that. And and i it's been a really important thing for me. I've coached both of my boys in basketball growing up. And it's funny because i is it a huge time commitment? Yeah. And and there's there's plenty of of reasons not to coach. But I think one of the best reasons to be heavily involved is because because when I'm coaching the games, we drive to get there early to the game. And so I I have that time with them in the car to talk through things and then we we win or we lose. And then you have that drive home where you talk about all right, what do feel like you did well? What what could you have done differently, you know? And and talking about the the the pains of of losing and and you talk about sportsmanship and and all these other things. And I feel like sports is such an incredible teacher. Like it's such an awesome tool that you have as a dad. And it doesn't mean every kid should be in sports. I think there's plenty of kids who probably have n they want nothing to do with sports. But I do think that that is a tool for you to be able to teach the lessons from winning, the lessons from failure. The lessons from not getting as much playing time as you want. The, you know, all these things, the the hard work and dedication and and the importance of just becoming exceptional at something if you truly want to compete at the highest level. Like there's so many lessons involved in sports. And it's really awesome to be able to coach my kids in sports because I get to be heavily involved in the teaching and and and the discussions around the lessons that come from that. And so it sounds like your dad saw a real similar opportunity with you. Taz Harding: Yeah, 100%. And you say you talk about how like a lesson that you learned is like you didn't get enough playing time. That was never something for me. So if you were like if if you're projecting on us right now, I apologize that you didn't get enough playing time. Seth Stoker: Hey, listen, I'll be the first to admit I was never good enough to see a basketball court in high school anyway. I went to one Taz Harding: Yeah. Seth Stoker: open gym and I realized, no, I'm nowhere near where these Taz Harding: Yeah. Seth Stoker: guys are. And so I wrestled as a result of that. So I I wrestled in high school. Got plenty Taz Harding: there you go. Seth Stoker: of playing time in wrestling, but that's because you know, you're in your own weight class and there was nobody else really good in my weight class. So that was so so by default I got a lot of playing time, you could say. Taz Harding: Yeah, yeah, you probably got pinned a lot too. So that Seth Stoker: Hurtful but fair. Taz Harding: yeah, yeah. jokes aside, that that is absolutely true. I just remember hours, hours in the car driving with my dad to sports teams and my and my mom as well. Always in the car. but my mom had, you know, other kids to take care of too. So Like if we go to a tournament, sometimes she she wasn't there. She was taking care of other kids. And that's exactly where she needed to be. But for my dad, we spent hours in the car. and leading up to it, like leading up to maybe going to a tournament or a game, you know, is talking about like what are the things that we we learned this week? What are you working on this week? Remember, keep your elbow and like all those things, as well as just positive motivation. Like after the games, there was I mean, he'd give me s a little bit of criticism, like maybe work on this, or like your shots seem fl I'm just talking about from a basketball perspective, like, hey, your shot seemed flat, right? Or hey, I think you need to be in this position better more often to make sure you stop the drive on defense or like those types of criticisms, but they're always really helpful. But one thing my dad never did was complain about a coach giving me more playing time. And my dad personally knew my varsity coach, personally. And he never never really clicked. He he'd always like, I think you should play more, but he never complained about how the coach never didn't play me more. You know. he always taught me, what should you do to play more? Ask your coach, what do you need to do to play more? and then we'd go and work on that exact same thing later that week. Because I know a lot of our players on our teams complained about not playing anymore. And That was something that he just did he just made sure he didn't do. And that that instilled in me a lack of victim mentality. Don't be a victim for yourself. There's a reason why you're not playing, and it's not because the coach doesn't like you. Promise that. Promise you that he doesn't like how you play, probably. Right. But it but that translates over to life. Right. Like people can either complain about their situation or they they can just either make a new situation or go go be better at the current situation that they have. And either's fine. But don't make somebody else's problem don't make your problem somebody else's problem. Seth Stoker: I love that. And I think the other thing is it sounds like your dad did take advantage of some opportunities to turn those moments into teaching moments and things like that. I actually saw a really cool video today, actually, of a dad who was sitting at a restaurant with his boys, and apparently the waiter had been disrespectful to him or something like that. I think the waiter was having a bad day. And the dad actually is teaching his boys. He actually has his son be the one to talk to the manager about the experience that they had. And kind of coaches him through it. He Hey, we're gonna be respectful here, but we're gonna share what happened. And anyway, the the manager talks to the waiter and the waiter comes over and apologizes for the way that he treated him. He said, Hey, I hit somebody with my car this morning on the way to work. There's no excuse. I shouldn't have acted that way. And then the dad had the kids be the ones to respond to the waiter and and be respectful and and forgive him. And and they even asked, Yeah, can I pray for you? And then they said a little prayer for the waiter, which I just like like regardless of of how it's being taught, I think as dads, it's easy for us to get sometimes as we're in the the throes of daily life to forget that there's so many opportunities to actually teach our kids important principles in every situation. And sometimes we're so focused on getting through it or getting to the end result that we don't slow down and teach. And anyway, I l I love that you had that experience with your dad. So now let's let's fast forward even more because Now you're a dad. So walk me through your journey of of becoming a father. obviously you you said it's been you've been married eight years, is that right? So so Taz Harding: Yeah, almost eight years. Seth Stoker: talk me through that journey now that you're a dad. Taz Harding: You know, it hasn't been an easy one. Not at all. but I I love being a father. I I'll kind of start from the beginning, I guess. And I kind of told you this when we talked on the phone, you know, we my my wife and I, we we got married and then six months in, we're like, should we have kids? And I think that both comes from a love of children from both of us. I grew up in a big family and then Post high school, I worked in a daycare for a few months, taking care of kids. And that was like one and actually, you know, it's funny, most of my older brothers did as well. We all worked at the same daycare at different points in time. Seth Stoker: Interesting. Taz Harding: Yeah. we had a great role model. His name was Mick Mel, in our church. we'll at him on this, but he was a great role model for our family. And he owned a daycare, and we just wanted to be there with him. and work for them. So we we all worked there for a little bit. some some longer than others. And then my wife actually grew up where her mom, her mom owned a daycare in her house growing up. And so being around kids, I guess didn't didn't dissuade us from having kids. It actually did the opposite. And so six months in we knew our love of kids and we're like, should we do this? You know And again, that was a prompting. That was like a feeling that my wife and I had, like, hey, should we do this? And we go, man, we're only six months in. Like, I don't, you know, we want to have the honeymoon phase. Let's go travel a little bit. Like we're making some, you know, we both work. We have a little extra cash. Let's go do that. And we both said, hey, let's pray about it. And so we did for the next week individually. We both prayed about that. And and we came back and we said, Yeah, like let's have kids. Let's do it. And so by month 10 in our relationship, in our marriage, we were pregnant with our first one. And that brought on its challenges of itself. three months in, we my wife started bleeding profusely and and was on bed rest. And when I when I was if if you ask me like six, seven, eight years ago, like if someone was bleeding during pregnancy, it's like, it's done, right? That's what happens. But my wife was just on bread rest for six weeks. in order to heal what was going on inside of her, had nothing to do with the baby or anything, but heal what heal what happened. And not nothing physically happened. It's just her body had something, an issue wrong with it. And after after those six weeks, we were in the hospital. She'd had multiple blood transfusions, multiple doctor's visits, going to specialists, seeing what's happening and And just after 20 weeks of being pregnant, you know, we we had a stillborn. So and I know a lot of people always ask me, like, was he full term? Was he full term? It wasn't full term and he was only actually only half, but we were so close to the point of valuabil viability. We were s and we were pushing for so long for that we were hoping for just a few more weeks where that baby could live, where he could go to the NICU for the first probably four months of his life. And live, and you know, it and it's and it's kind of your first child. You're so excited. Every little thing is great. You look at the apps that they have, like he's the size of a lemon, or like always the size of like a blueberry today or this week, right? And you're you were reading about it. like he's developing his heart, he's developing his his lungs or whatever it is, right? And we're so excited. Every day is so fun, every day is a new challenge, and then and then that six weeks to kind of have that like all blow up and the only thing you're really hoping for is that like can we get this baby here? And in the back of your mind, are we gonna are we gonna have future babies come here too? Or is this gonna be an issue every single time? I would say that we we saw the hand of the the hand of God in in those six weeks. In the weeks afterwards, in the months afterwards, and in the years afterwards. because if we didn't have that experience, and amazing doctors or whatever, Kirsten actually had to have a surgery afterwards that we figured out what was going on. And and after that, we had our first the next pregnancy we had we have our now five year old Taysom. Seth Stoker: Your five year old's named Taysom. Taz Harding: Yes. Seth Stoker: That's awesome. BYU fans will appreciate that. Taz Harding: Yes, sir. Seth Stoker: So so that's a tough thing to go through, Taz, for for any for anybody, but especially a young couple recently married, not not necessarily, you know, still navigating their relationship in a lot of ways too. So how did that impact your relationship with your wife? Taz Harding: No, gonna ask that question. That that's a long question to answer. But I think to give kind of a summary of that, How do I explain this? Not well. Not well. and I say that retroactively. Because because after that, for the first few weeks, you're kind of showered with gifts and attention, right? your wife and your you and your wife are in this together, right? you're crying on each other's shoulders, you're just You're just sad and and and that part was great. looking back for our relationship. Not that it was a great experience. But looking back like that was, you know, that was a Seth Stoker: Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Taz Harding: good time. But after that was kind of after the attention faded, that's where it was really difficult. Really difficult. And I think it is for a lot of men because you start to put on the mask. You start to hide your emotions and your feelings. You feel like you should be in a better point than you are. And then you kind of just stop thinking about it. And every time you think about it, you just push it down and you push it deeper. You push it farther. But what doesn't happen is your wife's probably more open with her feelings, right? She's probably talking about it constantly. And my and my wife talked about it probably every conversation. And I think it was an unhealthy way for her to to deal with it as well. And that's a whole different thing. But But but when you're not talking about a situation and your wife is, and she wants that attention, and you're like, I don't want that attention anymore. You essentially start to go like like this. And if you're listening to this, you're just essentially pulling yourself away from each other in a lot of aspects. Now you're still physically present. You probably still have great times. You still go on dates. You're still happy. But they're that part of you that starts to pull yourself away little by little. And what I've what I've learned, especially looking back, is that those things can compound if not dealt with. And sometimes you feel like I dealt with it, I cried about it, I thought about it, like I'm good. Right? Something like that is an opportunity that doesn't come around very often in your life. Hopefully, no one has to go through that. But I actually really does need some professional help and some outsub help. And I did not seek any of that. And I think a lot of the issues that arose was actually from me not being able to deal with that. And then that habit. continues to compound on your life and on your marriage, on your mind, in your relationship. And it causes that separation. It continues to cause resentment in your in your life. And those are your choices as a, as a man. And the resentment that builds up from just smaller things continues to build and it compounds unless dealt with. Unless you take off that mask, you can't really Have the relationship with your wife that you really want to. and so it heavily affected our relationship, but it crept in little by little over the next, I would probably say up until a few months ago when I went on the retreat and kind of learned for myself what the heck was going on in my life. It really affected us till then. And and you can think we've been married for seven and a half years, and that happened a year in. I mean, you can think the last six years were pretty tough for us. from that retroactively. But at the same time, you're in it. And you think I I asked my wife like two days ago. She's like, Man, I thought I had like I thought I had it great. I thought I had a the perfect marriage, right? And then you look back and you're like, wait, we didn't. But now is where I really love. Anyway, kinda rambling now, but Seth Stoker: No, I think it's good. I I think there's a lot of people who go through the pains of loss and things like that. And I I think very few people handle it. The right way. I don't know that there is a right way. You know what I mean? I I I I think everybody can I think it's very easy for people to get into a dark place and you talk about putting the mask on. I think my question is, is how on earth do you take the mask off then? Taz Harding: That's a good question. I will have to say it's very difficult to take the mask off. It's hard. But it gets easier. So here's I'll I'll kind of tell you guys my experience with that, with taking the mask off. we went on this retreat, we did some we did some some soul searching essentially. And I don't think it takes going on a retreat to have to do some soul searching. But it was very helpful for me. And I now I have a support, as kind of a support system built in place. I have probably a handful of men now that like I talk to at least weekly about the situations that I'm going through personally. And I'll kind of keep those to myself. but that I can reach out to and have follow-ups with, check-ins with, how are we doing, stuff like that. I think taking the mask off is one, just recognizing that there's probably an issue. You know, and so at this situation, probably grief that wasn't that wasn't dealt with, and then you're you're essentially hiding those emotions from your wife and not telling her what's going on in your mind in your mind and in your heart. Or if you have other situations, right? Like you know, you have you know, you have a lot of struggles at work and you're not opening up to your wife about it. You have struggles with family members and you don't really like to talk about it. You have issues with, you know, church or kids or, you know, you know, pornography, like all those things. Like there, there is hundreds of issues that you could probably have in your life. But if we're not openly talking about it with our wife, probably pretty consistently, I would say, at least on a weekly basis, and just telling your thought process and walking through things. I think the first part is just opening up to what the issue is that you're having, being vulnerable enough to say that you probably have an issue that is hurting your life. and then being able to talk about it consistently enough, where then you fe and I think this is the keyest point, the keyest, that's not even a word, but the most key point is that whatever's going on in your life. Try to find what is stopping you from having like that connection with your wife. and that's the issue you need to handle. And until that connection comes back in, you're you're holding a mask. Seth Stoker: It sounds like one of the main things you and I God, I hate to put words in your mouth here, but it sounds like one of the main things that you wish you had done differently because i y you you definitely said it took you a long time up until a few months ago to take the mask off. Sounds like you wish you would have communicated much more openly with your life along the way. And so maybe looking back, now that you're on the other side of it, like there's plenty of people going through similar stuff. What what would you tell Like w w how can they speed up the process so it doesn't take You know, six, seven years. Taz Harding: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Don't do that. Taz Harding: I said it earlier and I was like, wait, do I do that? And a good little caveat to that before is like Seth Stoker: Yeah. Taz Harding: we're probably all wearing small little masks too. And I think Seth Stoker: Fair. Taz Harding: I think like sharing every thought, every every jot and tiddle, like you know, there's always things that we're gonna be dealing with s smallly on our own. Like our our our isn't gonna know every single thought that goes into our Right. But like, or a problem that we're dealing with, like, man, I gotta deal with Seth on this podcast. Like, you know, she's not gonna know about that. Right. But like those bigger things are the things that really keep us. and sometimes they can be small and turn into bigger things. And so I would just try to keep open communication. I think that looking back at my situation, one thing that I found was like really frustrating is that like I just didn't want to talk about it anymore. And she needed that. And I what I did wasn't healthy. It was like I kind of just listened. But I listened resentfully. Because I didn't like having to talk about it. And I could l looking back, I could feel it. I could feel the annoyance. Seth Stoker: Which I imagine you probably weren't as present in the conversation either as a result of that, 'cause you're you know, you're not saying your piece, you're just like, Okay, say your piece so we can get it over with, it sounds like Taz Harding: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Yeah, you're almost like Seth Stoker: Man, I Taz Harding: please hurry this up. Seth Stoker: I I tell you what, Taz, it is a hard balance as a husband and as a father, right? Like I recently I lost my job in May. And so I have had a doozy of a few months trying to figure out what to do professionally, worried about being able to support my family and everything like that. Like I'm not gonna lie to you, it's been it's been tough. And It's the main thing on my mind. Like every day, it's the main thing on my mind. Like, what am I gonna do to to be able to provide for my family? And and one of the things that I felt is if I talk too much about it with my wife, then I'm the source of her stress too. Like I have to be able to be positive and say, hey, it's gonna work out. And I, you know, I by the way, for the record, accepted an offer this week, pretty excited to get started, but that's besides the point. Taz Harding: Hey, let's go. You didn't even tell me that. Hey. Seth Stoker: Yeah, yeah. So so it it's a it's it's a fresh thing. But but I had to I felt like I had to be like, hey, it's gonna work out. We're gonna be okay. You know, I'm confident. I had to exude confidence because the times where I would be a little vulnerable vul vulnerable and be like man, I just I can't believe that the the things that I thought would work out haven't worked out yet and things like that. And then she starts to kind of go down the path of like, well, maybe it's not gonna work out. Maybe, you know, maybe we need to make some drastic changes and things like that. And and so it's a hard balance to walk between being vulnerable and and opening up and saying, Yeah, like I'm scared, you know, and at the same time being like, Well, my family needs me to be strong. And I I don't know the perfect way to navigate that, to be honest. Taz Harding: Yeah, it's tough. It really is. And I think it just takes communication. And I'll maybe I can share an experience. My wife actually said Seth Stoker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Taz Harding: something to me yesterday about this that exact topic because it it is tough. And we'll kind of maybe use your example of like losing a job. Like you you walk a fine line, and you said that earlier. You walk a fine line between reassuring your wife. Like things are gonna be okay. So she doesn't go down through that spiral and be like, shoot, do I have to find a job? Do we need to sell our house? Do we need to Seth Stoker: Right. Taz Harding: sell out our cars? Do I sell my guns? Do I need like whatever it is to make money? Right. not that my guns are worth very much, but but like it's a source of income, right? And then walking and then the other side of the line is like you know, you you want to be able to like share what's on your mind with your wife, right? Because That helps you just think through those things so that you don't spiral, right? Because if you don't have an outlet for yourself, then you're starting to spiral. You're all you're doing is you're you're just going through this remuneration in your mind of your own problems and they stay there. But once you're able, that's why therapy sometimes is really helpful. You actually have somebody to like talk to, but like you don't love that person across from you, right? It's helpful in some ways where like you don't have to share. All of your burdens all the time Seth Stoker: Yeah. Taz Harding: with your wife. But like, you know, but and then you can think things from like a psychological standpoint, what's going on? But you're trying to walk that fine line. My wife said something the other day that was like hugely profound to me. And maybe like I'll probably butcher this like a lot, but is she essentially said, like, I want to get to the point where your emotions and what you're saying to me. And like the issues that you have are totally mutually exclusive. And I don't think she worked used that word, so I'm more profound word right here. But essentially, mutually exclusive from my feelings. So your feelings essentially what what she's saying is that like your feelings and what you're going through right now don't totally affect my feelings in the moment. Seth Stoker: Mm. Taz Harding: Right. 'Cause I think there's that slight like maybe codependency. Maybe that's not the right word, but like you're kind of codependent on the others. Like if I'm sad, she's sad. Right. If I'm mad, she's bad. You know what I mean? Seth Stoker: Well, it sounds like where she's trying to get to is the fact that like if you're so worried about how what's on your mind is going to impact her, then you're kind of policing your own communication to her and vice versa. And so it sounds like she's trying to Taz Harding: Exactly. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And and what what is that put on? Seth Stoker: get to the Yeah, exactly. She's trying to get to the point to where you can be perfectly open and you don't have to worry about is she gonna be okay hearing this? Interesting. Taz Harding: Exactly. Exactly. Right. And you you think back to my situation, why would I want to add any more stress onto her talking about my feelings when I know every conversation we're having is about that already? Right. And what she's going through. Why would I want to do that? Right. and if I bring up my feelings, now she's sad again too. And I just brought her to that same point that I already didn't even like in the first place. Why would I do that? Seth Stoker: Exactly. So so Taz, let me ask you this then, because you guys go through this extremely difficult loss and obviously had a a a lasting impact. I and it of course it will, right? Like it's it's never gonna not impact you, but somehow you guys have to make the decision to have more kids and and pursue fatherhood and things like that, despite the pain that you feel from this loss. And so how do you guys work through that portion of it? Taz Harding: Honestly, that was that was an easy choice for us because and maybe not ma maybe not the healthiest thing, but like both of us felt like maybe if we can have another kid, it would kind of fill the void that we're having. This fill the void of this emptiness that we have. And so that was our decision there was like w we've wanted kids. Let's just keep going. Hopefully this can fill some sort of void for us so we don't feel like this all the time. And I can tell you that, like, that was healthy in some ways. Yes, we're trudging on, we're keep on going. But what happens is that like new problems just arise, right? And where we didn't deal with the problems that we had before. When we get into a new pregnancy here, all we are is just worried about what's happened before and is that gonna happen again. Right. And we're just constantly worried about, especially my wife. She's constant, she's actually in it. Like she's actually pregnant. She doesn't want to go through that again, right? I don't either, but I'm pushing that down, right? And I'm just trying to be supportive of her. And I don't want to talk about it anymore. Right. But then we're going through that. And then and then we have the kid, and it's just problems always compound. So now we have our our now five year old. We're worried about SIDS. We're worried about infections. We're worried about, you know, is he eating enough? He was he was colicky. So like Is he even getting enough? He's constantly crying. Are we bad parents? Like those things just end up compounding. And if we don't deal with the first thing, then you never you never go back to that. We're always just kind of living in this state of problems and resentment and not talking about it. or talking about it two months, and we're never on the same page. And then we had we were pregnant again and we had a a a miscarriage, actually. Seth Stoker: Mm. Taz Harding: And Then those problems arise and all the same feelings come back from last time. And then we got pregnant again. And now we have a two-year-old, two and a half year old. Like those problems arise. And now we have two kids. Then we get pregnant again. And then we have our third kid. And it just compounds. And all the problems just start to compound. And the ri from my end, the resentment was the hardest part to I don't want to talk about my feelings. Why are you talking about them so much? And it creates. Seth Stoker: So the resentment of the continued communication about the the pain that you're feeling when you don't want to go there. Taz Harding: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't want to talk about the problem. And part of it is my personality. I don't want to talk about the problems. Like I'm a happy guy. Let's just be positive. Why can't you just be positive? Why can't you just put look at this from a positive standpoint? Right? But that's not how her mind works. And so the communication for me was lack. Right. Communication were her from her was like, I want to talk about this every second. And none of us were like sitting down and being like, let's let's talk about this in a healthy way for me and for you in order to work through this. Let me talk about my feelings. Let me talk about yours. Let's get through this together. Seth Stoker: So Taz, you're in a position now, I mean, with your oldest being five years old, you the world is your oyster right now as a dad. I mean, you've got you've got I I guess my my point in saying this is we're never gonna be finished products as fathers or as husbands. You're gonna have stuff, you know, you're you're you're being very vulnerable and being willing to admit, like, yeah, I haven't been perfect as a husband or as a father, and these are the things that I've struggled with. But at the same time, you've got a great opportunity to map out how the rest of your fatherhood journey is gonna go. And so I'm curious, what are the main things that you're hoping to teach your kids? and what are you being deliberate about as now you raise your young kids? Taz Harding: Yeah, that's a great question. And I feel like I I think you're always mapping that out. And so when you say, like, what are you mapping Like, man, what I'm mapping out right now is probably way different from when my my five year olds now 10, you know. But right now what I'm mapping out is the basis of honesty and communication. Cause five year olds can get caught up in I didn't I didn't take the cookie. It wasn't me, you know? Seth Stoker: yeah. Taz Harding: And so I'm just trying to instill in them, it's okay if you took the cookie. I don't care about the cookie. I just wanna know, are you gonna tell me the truth when I ask you? Because you think in my situation, like that's not the case. And in in all honesty, like it's a form of dishonesty. Right. And so like I look back and I say, you know what? I had a I had a real problem just being completely honest with my wife about where I was. Right. Of omitting what's going on in, you know, my feelings. And Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Taz Harding: that's what led us to a lot of problems. And so I'm trying to instill in them, like at Don't care if you took the freaking cookie, right? It's that kind of like just dispersing yourself from the and you know the emotions. I don't care about the cookie, just just talk to me. Right. It's not gonna affect me anymore. Right. And then so honestly and then just being able to communicate what's going on. And so I spend a lot of my time with my kids. I'm not one of those like tell me your feelings dads, right? But I wanna Like on every day when I it's so funny because like sometimes I'll forget to do this, but every night when I lay I lay down with my kids, and it's so funny because they both lay in the same bed. Like we have a queen bed. My five year old has a bunk bed, but he doesn't sleep there. He w 'cause I'm laying down with my two and a half year old. He just wants to be there too. So I have them side by side. I'm in the middle every single night. That is the highlight of my day. And I always ask, What are you grateful for? What's one thing you're grateful for? What was your favorite part of today? And then let's say a prayer. And those are the three things and I'll and sometimes I'll forget. And they're like, Dad, like you forgot what to ask what we're grateful for. What was my favorite thing Seth Stoker: Nice. Taz Harding: for today? And I just want to start that communication because I think if it starts there, it's gonna happen in other places too. So they when they come to me and like someone was a er, you know, they have that problem at the school ground where there's a bully, right? And their feelings are hurt, or like some girl said something to them in class, or they get their heartbroken when they're 17. Or they don't wanna you know, whatever it is, like they can come to me with that. Seth Stoker: You know, I think you will really down the road, you will really appreciate the way you prioritized the idea of teaching open communication. That was something that my dad was always really good at. My my dad's a professor in college, and so he he Taz Harding: I've got Seth Stoker: communicated for a living. He was a professor in communications and journalism and things like that. And you know, I have a twin brother, you know that. And Taz Harding: Yeah, yeah. He's better than Seth Stoker: There were times we would be at each other's throats, man. And my dad would have to stay up till like one in the morning refereeing and helping us kind of talk through and and understand, you know, conflict resolution and and things like that. And man, I tell you what, I I think back to that and I'm sure that was such a grind for my dad. You know what I mean? Like I'm sure there were times where he just wanted to be like, shut up and go to bed, you know? But he took the time to do it. And it's funny because I I definitely learned from that, and that's something that I've tried to instill in my kids is open communication and and the importance of like not just bottling up you know frustrations and and things like that, but actually communicating about that. And that's okay. Like even though it might be an uncomfortable conversation, it's a conversation you should have. And it's funny because my so my oldest son is 19, he's working as an electrical apprentice and he's doing Taz Harding: Okay. Seth Stoker: awesome. but he he shared an experience with me a a while back where well I got home from work and and he's like, Dad, I gotta tell you something and and he's like, hey, I was at work and my boss That he had some co-workers who communicated well and some com co-workers who may not have communicated as well. And and he he said, My my boss basically came up to me and said, I'm gonna butcher the story, but he basically said something along the lines of, Well, yeah, I know where you stand because you're actually good at communicating it. And so he he my son actually said, Hey, Dad, thank you so much for teaching me the importance of communication because it's really helped me stand out of work. And I tell you what, man, like you you want to talk about moments as a dad that just freaking fire you up. It's like, wow, it it actually worked. Like something that I did had an impact and you're able to you're able to see that impact. And you know what? It's not always it's not always gonna be that way. You're not always gonna be the s be able to see the fruits of your labors. But at the same time, like they're taking these things and and slowly but surely implementing them and and and listening to them and making that a part of who they are, which What a huge blessing it is for us to be able to have that kind of impact on. Taz Harding: Yeah. And I've seen that from you actually. I know I know what I'm gonna get from Seth Soker is the is the truth and kind of you know, bluntness and that's fine. If you don't agree with something, I know Seth's not gonna I know Seth's gonna tell me that. And I appreciate that. That's something I have. Seth Stoker: And and that's okay, right? Like we we can disagree. It's not rude to disagree as long as you do it in a respectful way, right? Taz Harding: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I and that I it's been a problem for me where I like to say face. I like I have historically been a people pleaser, right? And I I kind of hate friction, which is funny as a salesperson 'cause like you need friction to be, you know, to do well in sales. You Seth Stoker: yeah. Taz Harding: know, I've done fairly well. I feel like I'm good at it in the sales process, but not in in a in a relationship sometimes. So I have an issue with that. That's something I'm working on. and just Being commun just opening up, having that communication, taking off the mask, it's okay. It's fun. And when you do, that communication comes. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Taz Harding: Sorry, that can sorry, that connection comes. That connection comes with my wife and it's amazing. Seth Stoker: Because you're being you're you're actually being authentic. You're you're being genuine rather than rather than hiding something. And i i there's something about that that authenticity or or sincerity, even if it forces you to be vulnerable, that actually draws people closer to you. Taz Harding: A hundred percent. And I can say I can say with conviction that if if if the wife you have is the wife you love and that you know you wanna be with you guys have a good relationship in in some sort of capacity, maybe not in every aspect, like you being vulnerable with something, she's not gonna leave you for it. She's not gonna be mad more than an hour, maybe if it's something really, you know. You should have told her. or for a couple of days. Like she's gonna love you through it. And ultimately it will bring you, even though it might be hard for a little bit, to hear some things, you know, telling tell telling my wife that I was resentful for her of her for six years in some sort of fashion, that was a hard conversation. Seth Stoker: The irony is the the hiding Of those feelings from her probably feels like much more of a betrayal than than actually having those feelings. Like if you were just able to communicate about those things. And so it Taz Harding: Hundred. Seth Stoker: is it it it's counter counterintuitive. You know, it doesn't feel like that's gonna be the case in the moment, but what a cool lesson that you've learned. And and frankly, pretty early in your marriage and and in your journey together, that you've been able to learn that. Of course, it Taz Harding: Doesn't seem like it's not. Seth Stoker: doesn't seem like it in the moment, man. But I tell you what, we when you look back and you've been married for 30 years, you're like, man, we've been good at this for so long now, you know? So Taz Harding: Yeah. Seth Stoker: it's all about perspective too. But I I try to ask everybody who comes on the podcast this, but I'm curious, you know, with if we fast forward years and years, what do you hope your legacy is? Like if your kid i if your kids are asked, Hey, what what was Taz like as a father? What do you hope they say? Taz Harding: I thought about this question earlier actually. And I w one thing that sticks out to me with some kid I'll get to the answer in here in a second. Here's a little story caveat to that. One thing I hear like parents say all the time is that you shouldn't be your kid's best friend. And because you gotta be a parent and you gotta be a you know, you gotta be a dad, you gotta be a father figure, you have to be a leader, right? And but when when I look back and or I look forward in twenty years when my kid's twenty five, right? Probably getting married ish, right? Graduating college, whatever. We're and and he starts to have kids, like we're just the same. And I want my kid to be my best friend at that point. And so when I think of somebody that is someone's best friend, like my best friend would tell me when I'm doing something wrong. My best friend would correct me when I'm doing something wrong. My best friend is gonna praise me when I'm doing something right. My friend's gonna teach me the lesson he's if he's already learned it. And I think it's a little bit different from like someone that's your same age. And so I'm not saying it's completely the same. But what I want my kid to say in 30 years, when he has three kids that are five, two and a half and four months is that like my my dad's my best friend. Seth Stoker: Why? Taz Harding: And he taught he taught me a lot. I can go to him when I have an issue. I get praise from him. I can talk about the moments and the memories that we've had for years before this. And we can have so much fun together. And I know my dad's gonna shoot me straight, and he can shoot me straight, and I can shoot him straight too. And we can overcome an issue if we have to. But I want us I want him to say that like my dad's one of my best friends. So that's that's the legacy I want. Seth Stoker: I think the cool thing about that is in the moment, there's certain things that you're gonna have to do as they're growing up that they don't like, right? You talked about it, like telling them, telling them they're wrong or giving them feedback about how they can be better and things like that. And in the moment, you're not gonna feel like their best friend. But actually, what you're doing is laying a foundation of respect that they're like they're gonna be able to look back and say, Dad taught me this, dad taught me this, even if I don't didn't understand why back then. And the result of that, I know I know for me with my dad, like if I've got something I need to counsel about or something that I need advice on, my dad's my dad's the guy I call because he's he's done that for me my whole life. You know what I mean? And and once again, like, like you're I I I think you're spot on with I think you'll know the impact that you had by how willing or interested they are in involving you in their lives. And you know, you being their best friend means that you've been somebody that they've wanted close to them in their life, even even after they're out of the house the house and everything like everything like that. What more could you ask for as a dad? I think that's awesome. Taz Harding: Even if I can still dunk on them, they're still gonna be my best friend, you know. Seth Stoker: Just just be glad you can say still dunk. See, I never got to experience what the dunk felt like. And so, well, you know, you lower the rim. Yeah, Taz Harding: Eight foot red. Seth Stoker: on eight on eight foot I've experienced it. But I bet it feels really cool. I bet it feels different at ten feet. Taz Harding: Totally does. Yep. I dunked like a couple of weeks ago. It was great. Seth Stoker: I might need to see evidence of that. Mm. Taz Harding: I don't know if there is evidence. I mean there's people's testimonies and definitely definitely true testimonies. Yeah, but it wasn't in a Seth Stoker: How convenient. How convenient. Taz Harding: game. I've only dunked one time ever in a game. I'm like Seth Stoker: Really? Taz Harding: not the most athletic person, so Seth Stoker: Well, Taz, thank you so much for sharing sharing your story. It's been really great to learn from you. Obviously, it hasn't all been rainbows and butterflies, but at the same time, you've learned some valuable lessons that I think other be other people are going to be able to take away and implement in their own lives. So thank you so much for sharing your story. Taz Harding: You're welcome. And if if anybody's listening, reach out to me. Love to chat through situations that you have been in. I have a brotherhood that I'm part of that we do the same thing every single time, every single day, every week. and so I'm definitely open to working with you on things that you think you're having a hard time with that you don't want to talk to your wife about, that you don't want to open up about, like open up to me about it and I can help you. So appreciate appreciate your time, Seth. This was awesome. Thanks for let me share my story. Seth Stoker: Thank you, Taz. Taz Harding: Have a good event, yep. Seth Stoker: Taz, thank you for being willing to have that conversation. Most men never do. Now here's what I want to leave you with. The mask that Taz talked about today, it doesn't just cost you. It costs your wife, it costs your kids, it costs the people who love you most and need you the most. Taking it off might be one of the hardest things a man can do, but based on everything Taz shared today, I think it's also one of the most important things that you can do. If you're carrying something that you haven't dealt with, you know what it is. I hope today gave you a reason to start. New episodes are gonna drop every Wednesday on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with one man who needs to hear it. And if you know a dad with a story worth telling, go to dadiclepodcast.com and let me know about And as always, don't sleepwalk through fatherhood. Be dadical.