Latest / Revolution of Purpose Podcast / ROP Episode 33 Purpose in Action with Reverend Dr Tyler Christensen

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ROP Episode 33 Purpose in Action with Reverend Dr Tyler Christensen · Revolution of Purpose Podcast

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What if a calling isn't something that's just reserved
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for pastors and rabbis and clerics? What if
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every one of us is being called to become more fully
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who we were created to be? Today we're talking about what it looks like
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when your purpose becomes purpose in action.
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Welcome to the Revolution of Purpose podcast. I'm your host, John Street,
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and each week we bring you conversations with thought leaders,
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entrepreneurs, and individuals who have aligned their life with
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purpose and created extraordinary results. So I'm going to live through it
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and accept it radically with grace and hope and love. I mean,
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I would be proud to be in this council. It was an honor. I had
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so much fun. Tune in every Monday for the Revolution of Purpose solo
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show and every Thursday for Revolution of Purpose Conversations.
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Welcome to another episode of the Revolution of Purpose podcast where we explore
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what it means to discover who you are, step into your purpose,
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and create a life that reflects the the person that you were
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created to become. Today's conversation is particularly meaningful
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to me because my guest was my pastor for 6 years.
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Reverend Tyler Christensen currently serves at Riverchase United
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Methodist Church here in Alabama, and he was born and raised in Minneapolis,
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Minnesota. His journey in ministry has taken him to churches in
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New Jersey, Minnesota, and now Alabama. Tyler earned
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both his Master's of Divinity and Doctor of Divinity degrees from
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Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary after earning
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his bachelor's degree from Luther College. His wife Eleanor is also
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in ministry and serves at a different church. Together they have 2 children,
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Wes and Greta. But his resume is not really
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why I wanted him here. I've had a lot of pastors throughout my life,
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and one of the things that always stood out to me about Tyler was how
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completely he seemed to inhabit his calling.
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He could preach, lead, counsel, provide pastoral
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care, handle administration and somehow even stand
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up every week to preach his entire sermon without
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using notes. That especially got to me as someone who does
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public speaking. But beyond any of those individual skills,
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there was something else. For some people, being a pastor can be a job
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or a title, but watching Tyler lead for 6 years,
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I experienced something different. For Tyler, being a pastor
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seemed to be his purpose in action. And that's what I want
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to explore today, because while Tyler's purpose happens to be something that
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we explicitly call a calling, maybe all of our
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purposes are callings to some extent. And you certainly don't
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have to pastor a church to live the life that God, the universe,
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however you understand your creator, has uniquely equipped
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you to live. So Tyler, welcome to the Revolution of Purpose podcast.
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Thank you, John. I'm so pleased to be with you today. Thank you for the
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invitation. You're very welcome. It's an honor. I'm so glad you're here. So I,
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I have the same question that I asked everybody that appears on this podcast,
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and it just, to me, it really tells us so much about a person.
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And it's, it's this one: who are you today that your younger
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self would be proud of? It's a, it's an important question. In fact,
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I've, I've done some exercises over the years to,
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to reflect on that. Like, are you living the life that you want
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to be living, that you feel that you should be living? I've thought many times
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over the years, especially having children. Like,
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are they going to be proud of what their father has
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done with his life? Will I make choices? Will I make
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stand at the right times? Will I live a life
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that feels like I'm the same person in front of the congregation that I
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am at the dinner table with my family? Those things make
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a big difference. So it is something that I have reflected on,
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and I think the answer I would say is yes, to a
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point. I mean, it depends on, I guess, how far back we'd want
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to go. There was a time when I was a child that this was nowhere
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on my radar for what I would eventually be doing vocationally,
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but also feeling like I was living into the purpose that I was meant
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to do, meant to be. But there are parts of
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me now that I feel like, yeah, I think I'm
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getting a lot of it right, I hope. And I also recognize that
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I'm a work in progress. If I found out
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that I had to change roles, have a completely different understanding
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of who I am and what I'm supposed to be who I'm supposed to be,
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yeah, I would feel like there was— the report card would show an incomplete.
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I feel like there's more to be done even
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if I'm not always clear on exactly what that is,
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but to me it feels like trying to, you know, that whole idea
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of kind of doing the next right thing or taking the next step forward,
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and as a person of faith, there's a big piece of that which is
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I do the things that are within my ability to do.
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I control what I can control, and then I have to trust
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that, that God will, will fill in the gaps, will, will make things
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possible, will do what I can't do, or will influence other
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people in ways that I can't do that for them, that kind of thing.
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So yeah, I say maybe that's a cop-out answer, John, but I would
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say yeah, I think so, and yeah, work to
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be done. Yeah, I think that's awesome, and, and I, I think it's a good
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answer actually. Uh, you know, you mentioned kind of younger in life you're
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like, I didn't see this on the radar it first, you know, or at some
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point it— I guess the, the calling sort of found
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you. You awakened to it. Like, was there a moment where
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young Tyler said, I think I'm called to the ministry? Like, what did that
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look like for you? What was that moment like? Yeah, actually,
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yes. And if I, if I had to, I probably could go back and find
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an actual date and time period within a few
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hours. In some ways what I might share
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now is not necessarily something that would feel universally
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helpful, but I'll share more, and I think that
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it might be more useful for some of your listeners, but just with integrity
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I'll share the whole story. So I had grown up in the church,
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and I was always very involved. I was a curious kid.
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I took my faith seriously even if I don't think I—
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even though I think I didn't have a great grasp on a lot of things,
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it was always— there's always something deep within me that that was an important
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part of my life. And my mom and actually
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both of my grandmothers who were involved in my life, all 3
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of those women said, we think you might be a minister someday.
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And I sort of laughed it off because I didn't want to do that with
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my life, at least as a child. I wasn't That wasn't something I was considering.
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I wanted— I thought I wanted to be a schoolteacher. That's what I thought I'd
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do. Or I thought I would want to be a photographer, maybe.
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Those are interesting things, but they were the kind of things that kids think about,
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you know, early on in their life. And when those women in my
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life told me that, it was interesting to hear them say that, and I knew
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that their hearts were in the right place, but I thought, they don't count,
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because, you know, your mom and your grandmothers, they also tell you that
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you're the most handsome boy in the world, and you're so, so talented, and you
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have a beautiful singing voice, and all these things that you know, family members say,
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and as you get older, you're like, yeah, maybe they feel like
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they're supposed to say that kind of thing. So I sort of dismissed it.
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Then I was working as a junior counselor at a
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summer camp, and I had a friend who was a year older
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than me, and he was going through a bit of a low-grade crisis
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moment, kind of a 17-year-old crisis moment, and I
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comforted him, and he was very upset, and we talked,
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and we prayed, And he looked at me that night and he
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said, you're going to be a minister one day. And that
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was it, John. Like, that was the moment that it changed for me because
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it was hearing that from a peer instead
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of somebody that was supposed to say things that were supposed to be,
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you know, build up my self-esteem, or the people that
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tell you, you can be anything you want to be when you grow up,
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that kind of thing. And now all of a sudden I had a peer who
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was identifying something within me that I hadn't necessarily seen myself,
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and at that moment something that I
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would describe— I guess the best language I would have for it was it was
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kind of a mystical moment, and I just felt like I felt God's presence
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in a very real way, and we were outside
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at the time. It was late at night at this camp, and I just
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looked up into the stars, and I just prayed. You know, there's this
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There's a song that came out probably, I don't know, 40,
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50 years ago. It's called Here I Am, Lord, and here
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I am, Lord. Is it I, Lord? I have heard you calling in the night.
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I will go if you lead me. I will hold your people in my heart,
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and that night that song came into my head, and I had heard God
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calling in the night, and I just said, I will go if you lead me,
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and so all of a sudden Mitch went from— that was my friend— Mitch
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went from the guy that I was comforting to now He was comforting me,
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and he said, what did I say? And I said, I think you told me
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what I needed to hear. And then after that, I began to
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wrestle with that, right? Like there were moments that I said,
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I don't want to do that. I don't feel like— I'm 17
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years old. I don't feel like I want to be given this responsibility that feels
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burdensome to me. I don't feel like I'm the right person for
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the job. There are more qualified people than me. Why do
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I feel like I don't have a choice in this? When it feels
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like this is put upon me and I wanted to run from it. And I
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feel like in some ways I almost tried to sabotage what
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I think I was supposed to be doing. And that was really about
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not having sort of enough belief in myself that it was possible.
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And there'd be moments where I'd say, okay, yeah, I get it.
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I can see why that would be, why this makes sense. And then other times
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I would say, no, no, no, that's— I'm way off base on this. But what
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I came around to understanding is that there were so many things in my life
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and parts of my different eras, different chapters of my life that
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had kind of shaped me for this thing that was this purpose that I was
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being led to. So things like, yes,
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obviously a strong faith, a connection
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to church, a good rapport among my peers in
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the youth group, this thing being validated in and
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affirmed in me by adults who were
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around me like the pastors that I had or the adults
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that helped teach Sunday school classes or lead confirmation programs,
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that kind of thing, but also other things that were outside
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of church like being interested in doing theater
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and public speaking and writing and
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creativity and being in front of groups.
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Natural opportunities for leadership that I would step up even
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though I didn't ever run for any office on student
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council or things like that. Other opportunities where I was recognized formally or
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informally by my peers that put me in
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positions of leadership and guiding groups and
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delegating and things like that, and so by the time I started
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college a couple years later, I knew that that was the
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direction that I was, that I was heading in. And I started to see all
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of those pieces that felt like various parts
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of me. I saw how they began to fit together and
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point to why this thing that I knew deep
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down within me is what I was being led to do,
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why that made sense. And I began to see this as less of
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something that was being put on me or a burden
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to carry, and more like I see why this is more of
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a natural fit now. And it didn't mean that there weren't struggles and there
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wasn't more learning to do, and it wasn't like I was a natural, so to
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speak, but I saw all of these different facets of
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my life coming together in a way that there was a synergistic
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quality between all of those various kind of aspects of
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who I was and my interests and my gifts and my
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talents and that kind of thing. You know, and in a way it was probably
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relieving once you got used to it to identify your purpose
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and calling that early in life. You know, so many people, they go into
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their 40s and 50s and, and haven't stopped to ask,
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why am I here? What am I supposed to do? What is a way that
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I can leave greatness, you know, and, and, uh, and a legacy? And I
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think that's almost a gift too, that you, you got that
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early in life, even if there were still struggles or whatever. And I talk a
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lot on this podcast about the identity of, of ourselves when we find
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our purpose, when we realize, hey, this is what I'm supposed to flow in,
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the way we bring it about is by seeing ourselves in that role.
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You know, like, you know, starting this podcast,
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I'm like, well, am I a podcast host? Well, it depends. Do you have a
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podcast? You know, it's like, there's an old, uh, there's an old quote from Family
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Guy where, uh, where Brian's girlfriend
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calls and asks him, she's like, hey Brian, am I a Christian? And he's like,
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well, I don't know. Do you believe in Christ? She's like, yeah. He's like,
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then you're a Christian. You know, and I think a lot of times we have
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to like see ourselves in the identity of who we
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are. And for you, it sounds like you wrestled a little bit with that,
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but at some point you accepted it because it was so natural,
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like because you got the confirmations from your peers and because you just felt like
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this was right. And has there ever been a time after that that
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you wondered, did I make the right decision? Or has it always been kind
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of smooth sailing once you made that, that path? No, it has not
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been smooth sailing. I mean, in some respects,
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yes. Like the pieces have continued
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to fall into place, but not in ways that were always effortless
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or without some challenges or second-guessing,
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right? And yeah, no, there are times where I have had
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especially— I mean, if I'm being honest, I can get discouraged easily.
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A couple of bad days in a row and I start to have those kind
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of questions like, maybe I should be doing something else. Do I have it in
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me to continue on this path for the rest of my
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life? And then what invariably happens is that after a
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few days, there will be something that will be— something will change
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and things will start trending in the positive direction again and I'll say,
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okay, yeah, that was just a dark moment,
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or those were a couple of unpleasant days, or several consecutive
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things happened that were a real struggle in a row, but that doesn't
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mean, um, that this— that I'm on the wrong path.
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And then there has also been times that I have— there have
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been times where I've needed someone else to say, this doesn't feel
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healthy in you, or I feel like you're behaving differently.
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You know, whether that's a spouse or, you know, a child that says,
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Daddy, I've missed you, and it's like well, I've maybe just been at
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the office too much, or, you know, that kind of thing where you need a
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little bit of course correction on that, and so part of this
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is I can have this thing that I feel is a calling,
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and that I feel like I am supposed to be, meant to be,
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created to be doing, and I can lean into that
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so much that I forget that my identity also encompasses or
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is also made up of other equally valuable parts
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of who I am too, that I do not want to wreck those or
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diminish those at the expense of leaning so heavily into the one
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thing that happens to be both very— I am,
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yes, in some ways I think what you said, John, is true. Like, I am
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in one of these roles where a huge part of my identity
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and my faith and my understanding of who I am and my
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vocation are all one thing, and the danger
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in that too is that I'm in one of these professions, and I see this
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with doctors a lot too. Like their identity in
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their community and among their peers and so forth
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is that it's so much wrapped up in their vocation that
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they don't know how to step away from it. That they're concerned, can I take
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downtime? Can I have a day off? Can I take a vacation? Can I retire
16:25
someday? And, and, and those who struggle with not having anything
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other than the one thing, I see, I see some,
16:33
some harm in that too, because then there's a, there's a crisis that happens,
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you know, in the last quarter of their life. And that's,
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that's not how anybody wants to finish either. So how can you continue
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to hold on to some of the things that are at the
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core of what makes you who you are without making the vocational part
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of it something that if I don't do this, I don't know what I'm going
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to do with myself. I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know
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if I will be seen in the same way by, by my, by my community
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and so forth. That, that's really powerful actually to say that. And well,
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first of all, when you were talking about how having challenges,
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I think, you know, anything worth doing is going to
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challenge us. And I feel like You know, yes, that doesn't
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mean we shift our identity or believe that we can't do something, or we fall
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into limiting beliefs or question ourselves, but it, it is a moment where
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it causes us to, to grow. You know, we almost
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have to when there's a moment where it's like the 2 options seem
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grow or quit, you know, and you're like, well, I don't feel like I can
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quit, so how am I going to grow in this? You know, Steve Jobs talked
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about how you can't connect the dots looking forward, but you can connect the dots
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Looking backwards. And for me, I can look backwards and
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say I can see God's hand in my life. And in those moments where
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I was challenged, I do feel like I grew. I feel like
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that, that helped me grow not just as a person, but in
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my identity and my purpose in what I'm doing. And then the other thing you
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just talked about that's so powerful and kind of leads me to the next question
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I was going to ask is about when your purpose is so important
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to others that it can carry like a weight of responsibility?
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Like, how do you think that people can distinguish
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between like a career, a vocation, and a calling?
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Please pardon this interruption to your podcast episode. This will not take but a minute.
18:28
Before we continue, I want to ask you something. Do you know that you're capable
18:32
of more, but your life right now just isn't fully reflecting the person
18:36
you know you can become? Then I want to personally invite you to schedule a
18:39
Shift Mindset call with me. This Shift Mindset experience
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is something that I created to help you identify one decision
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that you can make that will shift your life. And when I say that this
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is a call with me, I mean exactly that. This is a live one-on-one
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personal call between you and I. This is not prerecorded.
19:00
This is not a member of my team. It is you and I having a
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real coaching conversation about your life, and it does not cost
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you any money. It is a 45-minute exchange of time. I'll give
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you 30 minutes of my best mindset coaching to help you identify a decision
19:15
that will create a real shift in your life. And in exchange, I just ask
19:18
you give me about 15 minutes to show you the coaching experiences that
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I offer. There's no obligation, but there is an opportunity
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to create a meaningful shift in your life just
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from this call. You can schedule yours today at johnstreet.org.
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Just click on the button that says schedule your shift call.
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And also, if this podcast is helping you, please subscribe.
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inspire someone else to create their best life through
19:50
also living their own revolution of purpose. Now let's get you back
19:54
to the Revolution of Purpose podcast. The first would be about, you know,
19:58
when other people sort of— their perception of you in
20:02
this purpose that you are living out. I think that that's
20:06
important, you know. It's important not in the sense
20:09
of I'm evaluating myself purely on what others are thinking of me
20:13
or what I am able to produce that people consume
20:17
or things like that, but I do think that when we are
20:21
doing what we are supposed to be doing, and by that
20:25
I mean the thing that feels like a call or a purpose
20:28
in our lives, I think that part of the way that you measure
20:33
that is by other people affirming that. And so,
20:36
you know, again, in our church world here,
20:41
in our tradition, we have a process where
20:44
if you say, I feel like God is calling me to be a pastor,
20:48
we say, great, let's have you talk about that with
20:52
a group of people from your church who know you, and they need
20:55
to be able to say, yeah, we see some of those qualities or those gifts
20:59
in you too, and their affirmation then is what allows you to move on to
21:03
the next step, and we have a very systematic process for how one
21:07
becomes a pastor in the United Methodist Church that
21:11
then you go on to— that's at the most local level,
21:14
and then you go out to a little bit bigger circle which is the district
21:18
level, and then you are surrounded by other Christians in the same tradition
21:22
who are in your city or general area,
21:26
and those people are made up of clergy and laypeople.
21:29
And they validate those things that they see in you through their interviews
21:33
and through some of your paperwork and that kind of thing, and then you move
21:37
out one circle bigger after that, and you look at conference-wide,
21:40
so that's even a bigger swath of people who get
21:44
to sort of evaluate whether or not you are prepared
21:48
for or later on effective in your ministry, and so it
21:52
isn't just about what I think about this. In some ways the
21:56
affirmation of others is what tells you,
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yeah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Other people recognize this in
22:04
me too. I mean, you could convince yourself that you're the world's greatest
22:08
musician, but if other people are like, I'm not seeing that, I'm not sure
22:11
that you have found your purpose. So it's
22:15
not only about what others think, but I think that that
22:19
is an important thing to consider when thinking
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about this. The other part of the question was about, you know, the difference
22:26
between vocation and calling, purpose, that kind of thing.
22:30
Sometimes I tell folks that their profession
22:34
or their vocation is the thing that enables them to do what
22:38
their calling is. Now from, you know, from my perspective,
22:42
call definitely has a spiritual component
22:46
to it. Or that is one of the things that makes calling different
22:50
to me in the way that I talk about it, and so for example once
22:53
I had a guy who was an attorney, and he worked
22:57
for— he was the resident attorney for
23:00
a large banking system, and he had
23:04
a deep faith, and he felt very passionate about
23:08
a number of specific kinds of things particularly like ministries
23:12
that were serving others and, and helping those who were
23:16
in need. And he met with me and we talked for a long
23:19
time about whether or not he should quit his job so he could focus on
23:22
that. And I said, I mean, maybe. I can't make that
23:26
call for you, but is there a part of what you do in your
23:30
professional vocational life that allows you to
23:34
do this other thing that you are passionate about in a way that other people
23:38
wouldn't be able to do it? Or do you bring a background or
23:41
resources or a huge number of contacts and
23:46
connections that can help you do this thing that you feel very passionate
23:50
and called to do, which may be different than what you do,
23:53
you know, as your 9-to-5, what you do to make
23:57
a living, and I think piggybacking on that too, I think sometimes we
24:01
forget that these purposes or these calls
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can be for a season. I feel like people oftentimes find themselves trapped
24:09
in something that they, they say was, this is absolutely what
24:14
I knew I should be doing, and now it's not life-giving,
24:17
or now I feel stuck in this, or my spark
24:21
has gone away for this thing. I'm just no longer inspired and interested in this
24:25
like I was. And, and it's, it's okay to sunset
24:29
something that for a season was the thing that was life-giving,
24:33
that brought so much purpose and meaning to your life, and to say, and now
24:37
my interests My passion about something lies
24:40
elsewhere. And I think that changing that is
24:44
sometimes hard to do, but we need to give ourselves permission
24:47
to do that too. Because sometimes those things dovetail
24:52
into something else that is what we should be doing. And I mean,
24:55
that can be an amazing opportunity. That's where some of the best stuff
25:00
happens. But I don't think we do ourselves or kind of the
25:04
bigger sphere around us in terms of the people that we influence
25:09
or impact, the people that we have our interactions with, the community that
25:13
we are part of. I don't think we do them any favors either by being
25:17
so firmly committed to something that we were once very clear that
25:21
this is what we were supposed to do and by forcing ourselves to stay in
25:23
that. I think that that is not offering your best and your
25:27
gifts and really embracing the things that you are excited
25:31
and passionate about. And I think that that can be harmful to you and
25:35
potentially to all of those in your orbit. That's very
25:39
well said, you know. And it's so important to realize that, like you
25:43
said, things can come in seasons. Your purpose can look different in one season
25:47
than it does in another. You're— you don't have to leave your J-O-B,
25:51
your job, to just to go, you know,
25:55
save the animals. Like, I have, I have a coaching client right now where we
25:59
were just talking about how The things that she loves to do are not necessarily
26:02
her passions, but she can make money from it. And I was like, well then
26:05
how can those give money to people who are doing your passions? You know,
26:08
what are some ways that you can live out your purpose that way? And I
26:11
think people kind of lose that. I, I teach a lot about the
26:15
ancient Japanese principle of ikigai, where,
26:18
you know, you ask yourself, what do you love? What are you good at?
26:22
What does the world need? And what can you be paid for? And there in
26:25
the middle is your ikigai. But that icky guy is not necessarily
26:29
showing itself in the same way throughout your life.
26:32
You know, it could be your icky guy is serving people and you love to
26:36
serve people, even serving people in a spiritual way like yours.
26:39
But that, that can also show itself in multiple different,
26:44
different expressions throughout your life. And it doesn't mean you've
26:48
gotten off track. I think you said such a huge thing in what you're responding.
26:51
Does it give you life? You know, is it still giving you life?
26:55
Because if it's not life-giving, then it's time to ask yourself why
26:59
that is. And that doesn't mean it's always time to move on, but it could
27:01
mean that you need some boundaries, you need some, some personal
27:05
revival in an area of your life, some rest, you know,
27:09
to recoup and then decide how you can do it in a way that does
27:12
give you life. So I appreciate that answer very much. So I
27:16
want to make sure that I touch on this while I have you, because one
27:19
of the things that I'd say impressed me the most when you
27:23
were the pastor at Grace, where I attend United
27:27
Methodist Church, was the way that you spoke from purpose and
27:31
conviction while creating a space for people
27:35
from multiple walks of life, people from multiple backgrounds,
27:38
people that don't all vote the same, people that don't
27:42
all see the world the same. And I think that's so important because right
27:46
now we live in a world that is very much driven by tribalism,
27:50
us versus them. And, you know, we— that is
27:53
certainly something we deal with in the United States, but even for viewers who watch
27:56
from around the world, I know this is a big thing in a lot of
27:59
countries right now. So how do you believe we can create
28:03
a feeling of genuine belonging for those that maybe
28:07
see the world differently than we do? Well, yeah,
28:10
I'm not sure I'm the one to answer that question, John. I think that
28:15
That's fantastic. But no, I think you're right. I think
28:19
that part of the space that I inhabit means that I
28:22
am in a group of people that
28:26
have a number of different perspectives politically,
28:31
may be in different economic brackets, people that come
28:35
from different educational levels of experience and backgrounds. All of
28:39
that is true. And that is one of the things I love about the
28:43
church is that it seeks to bring in people and says
28:48
the church is committed to bringing in everybody,
28:51
wanting them to feel welcome, wanting them to experience a connection
28:55
with one another, a fellowship, also an encounter with God when
28:58
they are there to worship, a place to grow,
29:02
and I hope that people come in with both the maturity
29:05
and the humility to say, I can be in the same space with
29:10
someone who might be very different than me in ways that
29:13
I feel very strongly about, but I'm committed to the
29:17
idea that being in a space with somebody different than me
29:21
is good for both of us and is good for our community
29:25
as a whole at large, and there aren't that many spaces where we can
29:29
do that, and the church being one of the only intergenerational
29:33
places that we have left in our society. The church being one of the only
29:37
places that at least every church's website says
29:41
all are welcome. Now whether or not that's how people actually experience
29:45
it when they get there, it's tragic when that isn't the case, and I'm sure
29:48
that even doing the best we could, there were people at
29:52
the churches that I've served that didn't feel particularly welcome, and that was
29:56
never intentional, but I think that that's probably just the reality.
29:59
I'm being honest about that. But part of it, part of what I— and I
30:04
feel like I've watched some people who have been sort of unofficial mentors
30:07
to me a lot of the time— part of creating spaces like that is
30:11
making sure that you are open to understanding
30:15
where people are coming from. And it doesn't mean that you are selling out your
30:18
own values, and it doesn't mean that you have to agree, but you
30:22
also have to start at a place that doesn't— isn't dismissive
30:26
or say, saying, well, this person clearly is ignorant because
30:30
they believe XYZ. Most people have arrived
30:34
at their understanding of things in an intelligent way and
30:38
think those things for a reason. Maybe it's because they have been
30:43
taught that. Maybe it's because it's cultural. Maybe it's because
30:46
they haven't experienced what you've experienced. Maybe they haven't been exposed
30:51
to some, some other, some other things. I mean, listen,
30:55
when I moved to Alabama from Minnesota,
30:58
and the furthest south I had ever lived was New Jersey, like I
31:03
had some assumptions about what I would encounter in
31:07
my congregation, and I was humbled again and
31:11
again that some of the things that I made assumptions about turned
31:16
out to be incorrect, and in fact I was the one who
31:20
turned out to be embracing some ideas that I think were ignorant,
31:25
and they were based on things that were not
31:29
true, and so I want to be able
31:33
to have the humility to admit that I was wrong
31:36
about those things too, but that doesn't mean— I guess the
31:39
other hard part, John, is that I don't think that just because you're
31:43
in a place that says we want to foster a sense of community and a
31:47
difference in views on any
31:51
number of things or how we vote, like everything's okay. I mean,
31:54
I do think that there are some lines that we don't cross,
31:58
and there are some things that feel out of bounds, and those
32:02
are hard because even by drawing some of those boundaries,
32:06
it does mean that there will be some that
32:10
say, well, then I don't know that that's my place or that that's my community,
32:14
and that's a painful thing, but it also is done because
32:18
these are larger values that the community claims
32:22
or upholds for itself. So again, it's sort of not an I'm okay,
32:25
you're okay, everything's everything's great. There are
32:29
some things that are clear that we make known
32:34
about boundaries and about how we care for each other, but it also means that
32:38
when you do become a part of that community and you do enter some of
32:42
these places of trust and real relationship that you're able to
32:45
have conversations that you don't have anywhere else,
32:50
and coming away from those conversations and I
32:54
know it's kind of become a cliché, but this agreeing to disagree.
32:58
I know that people use that as a conversation killer,
33:02
but when you genuinely practice that, where it's
33:06
like a really strong friendship or
33:11
perhaps the relationship that is in a marriage, like you
33:16
know that you can have this disagreement. You know that you can have a fight
33:19
tonight and that tomorrow you're not at risk of saying, will this
33:22
all fall apart? Because you have built up enough trust and
33:26
strength in the relationship in the time that has passed
33:31
that you're not necessarily worried that if you pull on this string that
33:35
the whole thing comes unraveled, and I guess I don't know if that
33:39
answers your question, John, but when I think about moments at the
33:44
church we were at together, we worked hard on some of those things.
33:47
And when it did come that you put some people whose
33:51
ideas were in opposition to one another or their values,
33:55
it didn't mean that it was important for one party to convince the other.
33:59
It did mean that I heard you. It helps me to understand your perspective.
34:04
I feel like I understand you better, and we're still going to be friends.
34:08
We're still going to be siblings in Christ tomorrow, but I'm grateful
34:12
that we had this conversation even if we didn't end up in the same place.
34:14
Us. And wow, like, that is just a— in a
34:19
society of you're with us or against us kind of mentality,
34:22
that was an important part of that congregation that
34:26
I valued so much. And because I think it's a part of
34:30
me. I don't think that God's desire
34:34
for humanity is uniformity or homogeneity.
34:38
I think it's diverse and wonderful, and it's not complete
34:42
agreement and alignment, but more a way of coexisting
34:48
and with mutual respect and concern
34:52
for our neighbor. And, you know, by doing that, by having that
34:56
respect, we're— if nothing else, we're respecting the humanity.
34:59
We're respecting the divinity in other people, and I think
35:04
that's important. I mean, there's, you know, we're all a product of of
35:08
our environment. A lot of people shift as we grow older. You know, Maya Angelou
35:12
famously said, as we know better, we do better. And I think all of that
35:16
is important to realize where we may be different places on our journeys.
35:19
And there are definitely going to be people whose maybe values, you know,
35:22
when it— and I always tell people, listen, we can disagree on politics,
35:26
I— but my, my boundaries are human rights and values
35:30
and things like that. But, you know, I, I have people who, you know,
35:33
watch this podcast, especially people who are local that maybe knew that I used to
35:36
pastor a church, or they know that I come from a Christian faith tradition,
35:39
and they're like, hey, you know, how are you,
35:42
you know, sometimes referring to God as the universe or whatever? And,
35:46
and for me, inclusive language is a way for me to let folks who
35:50
are from a different faith tradition know that they're welcome to watch this podcast.
35:53
They're, they're— just because I hold some,
35:57
some certain tenets of faith very dear doesn't mean that I don't
36:01
respect someone, you know, my friend Zunaira and client
36:05
in Pakistan who's Muslim, or, or my friend Greg in Atlanta who's,
36:08
who's spiritual, you know, like, I think you can respect people
36:12
without trying to convert them to believe exactly the way you believe on things
36:16
that are even very important to you. And that kind of prompts one more thing
36:19
that I want to mention before we wrap up is I know that
36:23
you travel a good bit, like that's something that you love to do.
36:27
And do you think that from seeing so much of the world and different cultures,
36:31
has that kind of helped you in this? Has that been something that has helped
36:35
you maybe just having exposure to seeing different cultures to find sort
36:39
of that humanity and divinity in other people? Absolutely. I mean,
36:43
100%, I think that's the case. I— look, I realize that
36:46
being able to travel is a great luxury.
36:51
That is a gift that I try not to
36:55
take for granted because I know that that is not a possible thing
36:59
for— it's not a reality for a lot of folks. And so I
37:02
also want to be sensitive in how I talk about it because you can I
37:06
mean, you can talk about how much you enjoy traveling and it becomes
37:10
kind of an arrogance or a bragging kind of thing too. But I
37:14
will say that seeing other cultures, seeing other
37:18
places, engaging in their customs,
37:22
their language, their diet— I mean, I think that that's
37:26
all really fascinating stuff and it makes me realize
37:30
how big the world is, how impressive humanity is,
37:34
and despite all these differences, how much we have in common. I know that these
37:38
are very kind of travel cliché type things, but I feel that.
37:42
Sometimes the places that I've been to that a lot of people,
37:46
they raise their eyebrows when you talk about visiting these kind of places because they
37:50
have made such— they've made all kinds of assumptions about the safety
37:54
in those places or how they'll be treated in those kind of places. And almost
37:57
always, the thing I walk away with is people are
38:01
people and we all want the same kinds of things and we all are
38:06
social creatures and we all are interdependent on one another.
38:11
And what a beautiful wide world that we have.
38:14
I traveled abroad for the first time— well, I guess
38:17
I traveled when I went across the border into Canada and
38:21
into Mexico a couple of times. Before I went across overseas,
38:26
but I did do a study abroad in college, and I just
38:29
remember my parents telling me later on that I came home different,
38:33
like I had turned from a kid into an adult, I think
38:37
was what their reflection back to me
38:40
was, and I think that that's probably true.
38:44
Getting to see a different place, you recognize that
38:48
sometimes the things that you see as sort of being the be-all end-all
38:52
are really not that significant from a global perspective.
38:55
And it's humbling in a way,
38:58
but also, I think, empowering just to see I
39:02
get to be a part of this great interconnected fabric
39:06
of humanity that is such a wonderful and a beautiful thing. So,
39:10
yeah, I think that traveling is something that is
39:14
a passion of mine. I share that with my wife, and we just made
39:18
a commitment during COVID to say when
39:22
this was no longer something that we could do for a period
39:26
of time, we committed to saying when the world returns
39:30
back to as it was, if that ever comes true,
39:34
we will not put off some of this traveling until
39:38
we have all the money we feel like we need to be able to do
39:41
this comfortably or until we retire
39:45
or No, we said, no, let's do this now. Let's try to involve our kids.
39:48
Let's make this a priority, and this feels
39:52
important to us and to the values that we want to
39:55
pass on to our kids, and I would say some of the things that I
39:59
want to share with my congregations.
40:01
Thank you, Tyler. Well said, and I share
40:06
that love of seeing the tapestry that makes us so different
40:10
and beautiful around the world. That's phenomenal. Thank you
40:14
so much for being here today. You've really, I think you've helped a lot
40:17
from a spiritual sense, talk about purpose
40:21
in action, but also from a practical sense as well. And so
40:26
I appreciate that very much. If people want to follow you, connect with you,
40:30
what's the best way? Certainly all of the archives
40:34
on YouTube for Grace BHM,
40:39
where I was your pastor for 6 years, as you said. And now
40:42
I'm at Riverchase United Methodist Church, and both
40:47
are accessible on YouTube where you could find
40:51
weekly sermons and other content. We'd love to have
40:54
people join us there. That's awesome, Tyler. Well, thank you again so much
40:59
for being here today, and thank you for tuning in to another episode
41:03
of Revolution of Purpose. Don't forget the solo show where we will be deep
41:07
diving into mindset will come out on Monday. And, uh, this was a great
41:11
show, Tyler. I'm so glad that you're a part of it. And for all of
41:14
you watching and for all of you listening through your favorite podcast provider, until next
41:18
time, keep living your revolution of purpose.
41:22
Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. If this
41:26
episode encouraged you, if it challenged you, or if it helped you see
41:30
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41:49
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41:53
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41:57
schedule your complimentary live Purpose and clarity call with
42:01
me. Until next time, remember, your purpose
42:05
is not something you find. It is something you awaken to,
42:09
and then you choose to live it. Go make today another
42:13
step in your own revolution of purpose.