Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Success as a Financial Planner in the Offshore Market – Chris Ball

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Success as a Financial Planner in the Offshore Market – Chris Ball · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Chris Ball, Chris's managing partner at Hoxton Capital Management.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Chris shares his career journey from leaving school at the age of 18 and becoming a tax advisor at KPMG.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: He carved out a really great career, six and a half years, but at the age of 24, he dropped it all to go and work over in the UAE as a financial advisor.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about his transition from accountancy over to offshore financial advice and what the realities of working over there was like for him.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler alert, he slept on a blow-up mattress for quite a fair amount of his early career over there.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um he stuck at it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: He worked incredibly hard and he worked his way up through the ranks, but eventually setting up his own business, Hoxton Capital Management, in his kitchen.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: He went from five staff to 200 plus staff within the last three years.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's amassed half a billion under management with offices worldwide and in the UK.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is an absolutely fantastic entrepreneur, and he is driven to build a business in the offshore market like no other.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast, all the way from Dubai.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sunny Dubai, I hope.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, probably isn't it?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's always sunny in Dubai, it's a desert, isn't it?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, indeed.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: How are you, mate?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: You right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am very good, thanks.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And yourself?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm wicked.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wicked.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of days off last week, uh back in today and been flat out.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, lovely, mate.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's sort of coming out now in the UK.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I saw I live in the central in central Bristol.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've been to Bristol, but just down now on the waterfront, and it's um it's becoming alive now.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone's coming out, getting on the sesh.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, getting a bit crazy in central Bristol.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I bet.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I bet.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: As uh as all parts of the UK seem, it kind of COVID doesn't exist in a lot of these uh beer gardens, it looks like.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly, exactly.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're all having a good time though, so that's the main thing.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Chris, yeah, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm always keen to get people on who have gone to the offshore market as a financial planner and made it become a success because you because you do hear about all the horror stories, people going out there and coming back with less money and then they went out there on.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um, yeah, it's really great to get somebody on who's been a success out in the offshore market.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're now managing partner at Hoxton Capital Management.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll talk a little bit about your company, what you're doing now, your sort of journey really in the offshore market and how you got into financial planning.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's not the traditional route.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um great.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um, first off, what I always like to do is ask somebody the first question it is, you know, how how did you actually become a financial planner?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get into the profession?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I got into the profession.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was sat in London doing some accountancy exams at the time.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was converting my uh ICAW exams over to uh Institute of Child Accounts of England and Wales and Scotland.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, it was uh I remember sitting in the exam and my friend had uh my friend had reached out for me.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to school uh with a chap called James, James Green, his dad is Nigel Green, uh, and his dad owns the DeVere Group and set it up from scratch.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he approached me and asked me if I wanted to come out and work with him in Abbhabi.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was completely off the cuff.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd always known that uh I'd always known Nigel and James from since I was kind of 13 and that was kind of what 24.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a what I've been I'd known him a while and I'd known that they'd done uh they'd done very well and uh and they'd had great success.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I thought, what have you got to lose?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh made the uh I made the jump pretty quickly.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think he approached me.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I went to one of their interviews or one of their uh their their seminars or whatever they had at the time um uh two weeks after, and then kind of four, six weeks after that, I was on a plane on the way to Abu Dhabi.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was all pretty quick.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it was um it was uh yeah, it was uh it was a great move, it was a fantastic opportunity at the time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was it wasn't what I expected, um, to be brutally honest.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was uh it was a it was an amazing learning curve, and yeah, uh never look back.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you're one of the guys who actually went out and and well, not one of the one of one of the many, I suppose, that went out and worked for DeVere.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously DeVere, who's not listening, is a you know an international firm, isn't it?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um DeVere is I think the breeding ground for pretty much I would say 90% of uh people that come from the uh IFA community.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's a fantastic training ground, a fantastic uh learning uh curve.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have to uh you know, the the training they give is good.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the environment is uh very what's the word I'm gonna say here, is it's it's it makes you grow up pretty quick uh and it sorts of memory from the boys, I would say.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's not for the faint-hearted, that's for sure.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you met James then.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned about some exams there.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So what exams were you taking?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was uh taking my uh accountancy exams.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well I was converting because I so I I started my career at KPMG.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was there for seven years, uh and under their training regime, it was Institute of Chartered Accounts of Scotland, uh, and I was changing them from ICAS to ICAEW doing some conversion exams basically.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, so it was a uh it it was an interesting time, and it was probably a time when I've been sick and sick and tired of studying for uh all the time you're at school, and then kind of five plus years of uh accountancy exams, which aren't the most interesting exams in the world, let's put it that way.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you you decided to get yourself into okay, so you left school, university, yeah, university?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: School.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, didn't go to university, went uh straight from school into KPMG um and went down that route.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I not that I think there's anything wrong with university or anything else like that, but I was quite focused on what I wanted to do and I wanted to get out and uh work.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't really have any huge interest in university or the lifestyle that university had to offer.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I you know I kind of jumped into work and was happy to get paid while I would while I was effectively learning a professional qualification.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they had a they had a really good school leaver program that was fantastic, um, lots of opportunity, lots of good people on that.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and uh and and I enjoyed my time there.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So did you leave at the age of 16 or leave school at the age of 18?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: 18.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: 18.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: 18.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did your A levels and moved moved across and to KPMG?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you chose the route of becoming an accountant, spent five years within an accountancy role, and then an opportunity came up to the complete unknown of going over to work abroad in Abu Dhabi, and you thought, yeah, I'll have a piece of that, why not?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're just bored at the time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did you think to yourself I've made the wrong decision?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Accountancy?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: What why was it that you just dropped your hat drop drops it and said, All right, then I'll I'll come with you?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I think look, I I I was doing the county for seven years, so it was quite a long time.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that I realized that it wasn't necessarily for me.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that wasn't because I, you know, I think it's boring or anything else like that, but I just realized that maybe it wasn't a good fit for for what I for what I wanted to do and my aspirations.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I wouldn't say I was on the lookout, but I was becoming more and more aware.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not to the point where I was kind of, you know, going, oh God, I know I don't want to do this, but I was becoming more and more aware that there were other opportunities outside, especially within financial services.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it just so happened, you know, kind of fate uh that James contacted me and you know I was uh I was keen and game and uh that that's where it started.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you got yourself over to souvenir then.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they took you over to where, Abdhabi?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Abu Dhabi.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I le I left.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I never I'll never forget, I left kind of working in London at KPMG.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: They as you'd imagine, their offices are very nice, glittery, um, shiny, and uh obviously made my way over to uh made my way over to Abu Dhabi.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I got to Abu Dhabi, and David's offices weren't in a nice big glittery, shiny building.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: They were in a villa uh in the in the middle of Abu Dhabi, um, which uh which isn't Dubai.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's it's it's quite it's quite a bit different, um, especially at that time as well, which was what, uh nearly 11 years ago now.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, we were we started off in a holiday inn, uh sharing uh sharing a bedroom with James and uh and uh going uh going about our uh going about our business.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you you're you you went out to you went out to Wabby Dabby and you worked in pretty much a holiday inn, and that was your office?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, our office was a villa, but we lived in the holiday inn, which was about uh which was about what 500 metres from the office.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we go to the office, work away, go over to the mall for lunch, come back, continue to work, then go home in the evening to the holiday inn for the first month, and then we uh then we managed to uh get a one bedroom flat between us, which again was uh was quite interesting.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we were sleeping on airbeds, and I remember my airbed didn't flow blow up.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was an interesting experience.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I mean, you know, it was kind of it was kind of sorting the memory from the boys, and it was kind of sorting those that were kind of, you know, I think if you were used to uh or accustomed to a uh weren't gritty, I would say, uh, then you probably wouldn't have done as well there.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so someone with a bit a bit of um a bit of grit, somebody who's got a bit of staying power.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wasn't wasn't ultra precious about uh sleeping on an airbed.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think it's I think you've I think with any of these kind of roles you've got to realize that you're you're right at the bottom of the food chain when you come in and you've you've got to be able to put in the hours and put in the put in the work to get there.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and nothing easy in life uh you know should should come or nothing good in life really comes easy.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really important that you uh you know you put yourself in these situations and push yourself to be uncomfortable.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, like I said, completely not what I expected, yeah, and uh and completely different.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, uh, and like most people within these within these roles, you kind of get into them and you're thinking, you know, six weeks in, like, you know, what have I done?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Have I made the right decision?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Am I should I be doing this?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And all those thoughts go through your head.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the same for anyone in these positions, you know, the not necessarily the weaker people, but the people who it's not for at that point will generally fall away.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then within six months it starts to become easier.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Within a year, it becomes easier, and the longer you stay in these places, the the generally the easier it becomes.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which, you know, I th I think is is true for most things in life.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: The the longer you do them, the better you become.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yes, that's taken a while, but here now I've got you know and uh and and enjoyed every step of the way.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, well, okay.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's just say let's focus on this Abby Dabby, this this um this role then with with the veer.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you said like the first six weeks, first six months, and if you can get past the first six months, then you're on your way.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of separate the week from the chat, really.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so what you know, you had no experience of financial planning at all.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: No experience of financial advice.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: You came from an accountancy background, you're I mean your perception probably of going over to Naby Daphne was gonna be quite glamorous, probably.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was an element of glamour, you know, this is gonna be this is gonna be different.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a great idea in my head of what this is gonna be like.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: You turn up, you're working in a villa.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds a bit like a boiler room.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what it what was it like then?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, talk me through what your what your baptism of fire into the world of financial advice was over in uh Abu Dhabi.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, I suppose I did have an idea of what financial advice was.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had obviously worked for KPMG and a lot of the kind of a lot of the role that I was doing there was uh especially towards my latter term there was personal tax.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know the the personal tax side came came uh came well, came uh came easily.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: More, you know, kind of more of what you would expect or what I would expect the financial advisor to do.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had contracts lined up, I was speaking to clients that were already pit were already you know onboarded.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um we was assisting them, helping them with any queries that they've got, um, you know, processing tax returns, answering tax advice, helping them with different uh elements of that.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously when you go over to uh when I went over to work for the Vere, it wasn't like that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was the baptism of fire, as I suppose as you put it, was making sure that you can go out and find clients.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um DeVere is big on client acquisition, um, so it's really generating new business uh and finding out ways to do that, which actually I found extremely interesting.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't like it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the reason why I think a lot of people don't like it is because it is particularly hard.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately to be a good financial advisor, you can be the most technical person in the world and have all the have all of the best attributes.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: However, you know, in all of the professions that I've seen, from you know, from people that are lawyers to accountants to uh tax advisors to financial advisors, that the ones that do the the best are the most personable uh and also the ones that can bring in the clients in through the door.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that they are they are the top billers, they are the people that uh that typically do well.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and like with most of these professions, it's uh you know, it's it's all about what you bring into the business typically.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was a it was a very interesting uh interesting role, uh, and I learned a hell of a lot uh doing it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it really opened my eyes up to yes, you need to have you need to know what you're talking about, uh, and that makes obviously makes it a lot easier when you're talking to people because they don't think you're a complete idiot.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but at the same time, you know, being able to acquire clients, go out, get them uh and go through that process is I would say the most important uh most important part of whether you succeeded or whether you didn't.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're in those early stages, did you did you bang this off the back of your your your accountancy experience then?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did you use that to relevate yourself out there?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I had a I I've I've obviously got a very good understanding of UK tax and how that impacts people from a pensions perspective, from a uh, you know, from a personal tax perspective that a lot of people wouldn't have had.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and obviously I think with most things tax related, as long as you've got a broad understanding of the main concepts, it's relatively transferable across different jurisdictions.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: You've just got to learn the look the rules in in those jurisdictions.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that definitely set us apart.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and ultimately a lot of people are out in the Middle East and places like that because they don't like paying tax.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously it's tax-free here.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they're trying to shelter their wealth uh from tax when they go uh when they go back to the UK or other uh taxable jurisdictions.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Fine, okay.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so using that experience that you had built that kind of deeper relationship with clients when you were going out prospecting.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like you just come out of a jobbing comet or something, was it?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you were coming out of an accountancy firm into a financial planning role, although you hadn't ever done it before, you could speak the language and you could talk the talk because you understood tax, and tax is a big deal out there, as you rightfully said.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people are out there trying to earn as much money as they can and pay as little tax as possible.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great stuff.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you obviously went out there, you cut your teeth out there, you managed to, you know, hold on for dear life, and uh you got past the six weeks, up to six months, you're doing really, really well.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you progressed through DeVere Group then.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did you can you know was there a training structure in place?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did you develop up into a manager or what what was your sort of experience at DeVere then?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so DeVere had quite clear roles, which was uh coordinator, um, which was basically coming in and prospecting and finding uh business for a financial advisor that we could then go out and speak to clients and advise them on their products.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then above the financial advisors, you had managers, um, and then obviously you had your senior area managers and then you know reporting into uh reporting into the big boss.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, it you know, it was um it was uh yeah, that there were there was a clear structure to get from coordinator to advisor.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then managers were typically coached and mentored mentored by their managers.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was very fortunate that I had a fantastic advisor I was working with.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I had great managers to lean on when I was there uh and that really helped me develop.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately I was reporting up into Nigel, and you know, obviously uh you know he's been extremely successful and had fantastic uh you know success in the business and you know built uh a lot of people would say, you know, some of the best managers that uh that that that are out there that are that are currently doing it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some still working for him, some are other companies, some that have gone and set up on their own.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was very fortunate to be able to do that and to be able to learn from these people.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, nice.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So mentorship was mentorship in the early stages was a massive part of your of your success then.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that in those roles, especially for anyone that's kind of looking at those roles, that's the key that you want to be able to do because ultimately, if you're not with an advisor with a company that wants to take care of you and wants to put, you know, their kind of arm around you, I was very fortunate in the fact that I was with an advisor that did.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was plenty of advisors that didn't want to do that uh for their coordinators.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, James now runs their Western Europe business for them and is probably one of their strongest managers that I've ever worked with.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then he learned off his manager, which was a guy called Graham Bentley at the time, and he was an extremely strong manager, uh, you know, and uh and gave a lot of time in developing and and and sorting uh and sort of people out.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we was very fortunate that we that we learned uh that we that we learnt from uh from really good people, but also there's people that aren't aren't great as well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really about speaking to the people that you're gonna learn from, I think, uh and making sure that you know you're you're you're lucky enough to to be with people that do want to uh take uh take an interest in you and help develop you out.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh when you're over in Abu Dhabi or Dubai, one thing I'm always told is there's a huge amount of socializing going on out there.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, lots of there's lots of socializing, taking clients out.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and some people I know, I've got a friend in Abu Dhabi at the moment, and he just seems like he's flat out party all the time, you know, he's on boats and all this sort of stuff, and there's a lot of boozing going on, even though it's a Muslim country, isn't it?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's lots of drinking still still goes on and and all of that kind of thing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you find did you did you get involved in that in the early stages, or did you think, Christ, I'm not getting involved in that because I'm I'm gonna spend all my money and just just not make success of this?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I was 24, 25 years old.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, go, you know, go going out when you're going out when you're that age is a big part of what you want to do.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I were I was I was fortunate enough that I was able to go out and mix and part and do good things with my friends, but I was also um fairly tuned in.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I couldn't do it all day every day.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh you know my career was a big focus uh and I and that's what I wanted to do.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also uh gifted with two young children.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been out here, I joined in the August, I went uh and I uh found out that I was having twins when I was in the February um of the following year.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of a quite a big wake-up call and going out partying every day of the week.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think becomes tenable.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and my lovely wife would have uh no doubt rate me in as well, who's also, you know, but I've been very lucky to have someone who's been ultra supportive with me because I know there's a lot of uh people that aren't necessarily.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, she's been a she's been a massive driving factor and also uh grounding uh person to uh always bring me back into check.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not I'm the boss at work, but she's the boss in the house.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh fair play, yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, nothing's more grand than getting kids, I can tell you.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I'm exactly the same.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: But how old were you when you had your first your first then?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I was 25 uh when I had uh twins, and I was I was coordinating out here.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it's it's funny when you see people come through and you know they're talking to me about it's tough when you come out and you know you might not get paid a lot of money at these companies because a lot of them operate on you know a percentage of the fees that you generate um only.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, I I remember going to I remember going to the waitros and everything and and worrying if I couldn't, you know, couldn't uh afford to buy the milk and the and the nappies for my children, let alone you know going out partying all the time and uh and worrying about that.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it does definitely bring you into focus uh and you don't lose sight on what's important ultimately.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's quite interesting because obviously when people go out to um the offshore market and way back when you were doing it, I mean, I was I suppose like 13, yeah, about 11 years ago, so it's about 12 or 13 years ago, I started doing recruitment and I remember the offshore market then.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there wasn't very many roles that paid you a salary, that's for sure.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: They were always commission based.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you had to get out there and you had to get stuck in pretty damn quickly.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: You might be lucky to get a couple of you know, your your air tickets, your plane tickets paid for, or your first month's rent paid for, or something like that.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it really was kind of if you think you're worth it, get out here and try and make some money because here's a you know, here's a pay slip of the guy who's earning 300 grand a year or 400 grand a year tax free.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you reckon you want a piece of that?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um was it a very similar sort of setup for you then when you went out there?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you went out there without any that was it financial support?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, look, I think if you'd have told me that I'd be having children uh kind of you're what's it a year pretty much into my journey or slightly less than a year into my journey there, then I probably wouldn't have gone.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, you know, ultimately at the time I was 24, 25, I knew I had good qualifications.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that if I ever needed to come home, I could and I could earn uh I could earn a good job role.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't really, it didn't really bother me uh in in in that aspect.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously always worrying because you go from earning a salary to not earning a salary, it's uh it's always an issue.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: But as uh as one of my friends said, you know, everyone's uh everyone's on a contract.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just think still think it's for life, but ultimately I think COVID's taught us this it's not in a lot of these places.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, it was it was it was it was a good learning curve uh and it definitely makes you work harder, I would say.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or for some people anyway.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you you're obviously an accountant, you're an accountant in the UK, so you're probably earning an all right salary, weren't you, in the UK?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was earning very well for someone who was 24, 25.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, earned decent money.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to knock that on the head and go uh go and go and do something else was a risk, but I I I thought it was a worthwhile risk, as I think you've got to look at uh most things and you know and see um assess the risk, assess the likelihood of you being able to succeed in doing what you're doing, what's the worst case that can happen?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, worst case is I come back with my tail in between my legs, I have to live at home for a few months while I get myself back on my feet again, and then I go again.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't it wasn't a big risk.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so I was I was comfortable with that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So risk versus reward then, let's talk about that then.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, what were your expectations about the reward?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: What did you envision the reward to be within your first year, for example?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I kind of use the word break-even, I suppose.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I had an if I if I wasn't if I wasn't having to worry about money, that would be okay.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: As in, you know, I could go out and I could buy a uh I could buy a few dinners, go out my you know, my wife at the time was my girlfriend, she was living in England.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: If she'd come out, we could go and have a nice time, go out for a few drinks with my friends on the weekends.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had uh I was living with one of my really close friends now, Lewis.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, after after James and I kind of uh moved out of living underneath each other's feet and working with each other.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, it was it was just to be able to make sure that I could get by, I think, in the first few in the first year.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think ultimately that's what it is.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it's any apprenticeship, whatever you go into.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you walk into somewhere and you're earning them and you're earning a few hundred thousand pounds in your first year, there's normally, you know, you're normally pretty good at what you do to start off with.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're definitely not an apprentice like I was.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, you have to earn it and you have to build it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was coming in with that expectation.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I had that expectation again, was uh, you know, it wasn't a get rich quick scheme.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was a come and take your time and build it up properly that uh that that that we did okay.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think you know, putting a figure on it, I think if I know if I was kind of saying if it was 30 grand in my first year, I'd have been chuffed and you know, we hit that and more.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So in your head, you were thinking back then if I could earn 30,000 pounds tax-free, I'd be I would be happy for my first year.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would that'll get me up and running.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's not many jobs as an apprentice where you can earn you know nearly, you know, what's that, two and a half thousand pounds a month tax-free in your first year?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I was chuffed.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you were right, you started as a coordinator then, did you?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was, yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is that still the same model then that a lot of firms and obviously we get onto the fact that you you you now run your own firm and obviously you hire and you build teams?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but going in as a coordinator, that you know, is that quite the tradition?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's talk about the offshore market and getting into becoming an offshore financial planner.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the traditional path that people go down still?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: They come in as a coordinator to cut their teeth.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's traditional.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean some people come in as advisors.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know you you know you were talking about other people earlier that we were, you know, we were discussing.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they came in as advisors and did and did very, very well.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it, you know, it's different horses for different courses.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I found that the coordinator route has worked extremely successfully.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of people would turn their nose up at it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it's if you want to succeed in the offshore market, you have to have that business development skill.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no better way to learn that business development skill uh than by doing thousands of hours uh doing that at the start, uh, you know, and and cutting your teeth and working with someone who's been there, done that, got the t-shirt already.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I all I you know predominantly now, I'd say the top 10 people in our current business have been coordinators.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's no it's it's no fluke.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um that you know, there's the top, you know, when I left De Vere, the top guys there have pretty much all been coordinators.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know most of the other companies uh in the Middle East, their top guys had been coordinators.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So coming in at that level and not earning your stripes, but learning the business and learning it from people who are more experienced, uh uh, I think is uh I think is a very wise and smart move to do.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So as a coordinator, just sort of for anybody's listening to this at the moment, and they would go into, they were going thinking about going off to Abbey Jabby or anywhere really where they've got the offshore market.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a role that was considered to be a business developer or a coordinator, however they want to dress it up.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just just talk us through what someone would expect out of a role like that.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, brutely honest, it would be hammering the phone for the best part of 10 hours the day, trying to reach out to people uh to get meetings booked for your advisor.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is the role of a BDM.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a number of different parts to that role.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: The the first part is is getting the you know, being able to find enough people to speak to in that day.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be prospecting.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, people now have got more ingenious uh ways of doing it.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So now they you know they might get on Facebook, they might send messages on LinkedIn, they might, you know, run ad campaigns, you know, there's a whole kind of there's a whole kind of uh you know business uh in itself.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously calling those people and speaking to them.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to speak to enough people a day to be able to book in enough meetings a day to make sure that your advisor sits enough a day uh and monitor it uh from there.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, the the the best the best people always had the best data that they were calling, so they would find ways to speak to the right demographic of people.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um they would obviously be knowledgeable to get P to get in front of people and knowledgeable enough to spark someone's interest to want to sit down with a financial advisor.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and that that was the aim of the game.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was taking someone from point A to point B and how you went about that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when I was doing it, you know, we were typically uh trying to you know come out of ingenious ways.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the ways that we did was work with a recruitment company and uh sorry, uh a relocation company and give them hampers for people that were just moving over uh in exchange, you know, hopefully they would uh then be interested in a call with us.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are there are numerous methods that we use, but yeah, it's uh it's uh it's very interesting, that part of the business.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it it teaches you a lot about what it takes.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a slog, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a slog.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit similar to recruitment, it's kind of like similar to recruitment.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing someone into like a trainee recruiter, you don't expect them to be like a full 360 recruitment consultant straight away.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: You might get them into a resource role, like a resource of being somebody that would just be flat out phoning candidates for one of the senior recruiters who's opening the jobs, you know?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, you just you're flat out on the phone booking appointments, booking people into people's diaries and getting the right people in front of the front of the front of the more experienced staff within the office.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, what were you earning, sort of commission off the back of that then?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So 50 so if something went through, you would earn a commission on it, would you?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So so if so if somewhere so if something went through, my advisor would obviously get paid fees from the product that they placed placed the the client into, and then I would earn a percentage of those fees that were generated.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I bet back 11 years ago, really, you weren't using LinkedIn or anything like that, were you?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was kind of it was pre-Linkedin.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was all pretty, it was all pretty uh, you know, it was all it was all pretty ad hoc uh on the way that you would go about trying to get uh trying to get hold of people.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it was interesting.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, look, it was um, you know, some I mean, when you first started, you'd probably be given the yellow pages and you'd be kind of like, uh, you know, start the section, go through it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: That that was it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and uh and ultimately there were people that earned a fantastic living from doing that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy to think of now because obviously, you know, technology's improved and everything, the way that we do things has got much slicker and much more efficient.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that was real, cut your teeth and uh, you know, and uh and get involved, you know, pull up your sleeves and uh and get going.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think technology has made it easier or harder?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd say a bit of both.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd say obviously within the industry it's much more regulated, especially in the offshore uh side than it was.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying it's much more regulated in the UK, because clearly it's not, um, but it's much more regulated than it was, which is a good thing.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say that technology has definitely played a part in making things easier and making it more efficient to service clients.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would say technology has uh helped uh businesses and able to provide the ongoing client service that uh that maybe they couldn't previously.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for instance, client portals where they can see their valuations, emails to keep in touch with people, you know, WhatsApp, all of these things have helped improve.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I think um you know it's made people more efficient and more being able being able to focus more on finding the right people that they want to speak with rather than needle in the haystack.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what about um I find um I find uh LinkedIn when it first came out, for example, from a business development perspective, I think it's massively underutilized.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like financial planners in the UK don't really still don't use it very well.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's one of those things that's massively underutilized.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: People didn't really kind of understand the value of it, and then all of a sudden it became saturated.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you couldn't move, could you, for people trying to message you on LinkedIn, for example.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's a very useful tool for BD, but it can't you, I think you have to be you have to stand out and you have to kind of make yourself look slightly different because there's a lot of people doing the same thing, you know, sending automated messages out and all sorts of stuff, you know, numbers game.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that being something that is quite niche and stands out to your target audience is hugely important as well.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of trying to just spread your net massively wide and just capture everybody, you have to kind of be a bit of an expert, don't you?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be a bit of an expert in what it is you're doing and try and attach that, try and attach yourself to that niche and be the go-to person within that that that little that space.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Does that work so does it work the same over on the offshore market?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but is there less clients for you to go after?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, is there a lot more financial advisors going after less count clients?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I'd say look, it all it comes down to whatever you do in life, it's how you differentiate yourself from everyone else, isn't it?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's your USP?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yes, I would say that I don't I don't know if there's more I don't uh I wouldn't be able to comment between how many you know saturation points or non-saturation points, but I would say there's always someone making money somewhere.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I can bet that there's always a lot of people making money, whether it's in the UAE, whether it's in Oman, whether it's in Qatar, whether it's in Saudi.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's always people doing business, it's just how hard that you want to you want to go out and find it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for people that sit there and expect business to come to them, it doesn't happen like that.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that just doesn't work uh in the offshore environment.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like in the UK where you can sign up for things like unbiased and uh and other platforms and you know, wait for leads to come in, you call them and go from there.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be more much more proactive.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um But at the same time, I think you know, differentiing if you know differentiing differentiating yourself with a good LinkedIn profile is good.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I also feel that advisors that really know their stuff do well.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, all right, well, you know, thanks very much for explaining that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you obviously were at the Veer for quite some time.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: You left DeVere and you went on to set your own business up.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was, yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, so tell us a little bit about that then.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you left the Veer Group, you set your own business up.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just give us an overview of the company that you've set up.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we uh I helped found Hoxton Capital Management uh with uh my business partner Matt.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's in the UK and he runs all of the UK operations and looks after all of that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I look after all the overseas operations uh and uh and offices that don't sit in the UK.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, it was it was it was a uh it was an interesting point uh uh you know on why we set it up and and how we went about it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um we both decided, you know, Matt was quite entrepreneurial himself.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: He'd set up a business.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been interested in setting up a business.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, we just we went out and did it basically.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we started off.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I basically started off the kind of role from my kitchen table uh with my PA at the time, who was Christine.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had my uh two coordinators uh working with me at the time join as well straight away.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and they've been you know they're still with us, which is which is absolutely fantastic.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: One of them's gone on to be a very successful advisor as well, the other one's still working with me as my coordinator, and he's probably I would say, you know, I'll bias, but I would say he's probably the best coordinator I would say in the offshore industry.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and then Matt started off in the UK and we and we, you know, and we kind of and we built the business uh and we went from was it five people uh initially um to over 200 today, um which is uh which is which is great growth.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's been measured growth.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's been uh it's been quite a journey, and it's if it's it was three years a few weeks ago, um, but it feels much longer.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like we've been doing it for a while.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but my wife says the opposite.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: She says it's you know, it feels like you've hardly been doing it for that long at all.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's um yeah, I suppose we're we were on the business, working in the business all day, every day, and um, and we love what we do, and it's it's been fantastic so far.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's Matt then, did you say?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Dean, yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Matt Dean's your business partner, yeah.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: You set it up together.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we start we started it together in the UK, yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, fantastic.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so you did you go back to the UK then?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you stay out in the office?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I stayed out here.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I stay I stayed out here and uh and I stuck uh and basically had an office in Abu Dhabi.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, and he opened up an office in uh in London, uh like a like a meeting room in London, and then most of the back office was done from uh from our uh offices in Watford.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, talk me through that then.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: How come you how come you set up an office in London and an office in Abbie?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the reason being is that we decided that actually most of our clients were British.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we were focusing predominantly on the British expatriate market.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um we realized that most of the people that we were looking after would want to move back to the UK at some point.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we thought it would be good to have an office there.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: We also thought that the UK market was a good market to be in, that we, you know, predominantly deal uh with pensions, ISES, um general investment accounts, these kind of things.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, great to be in that business as well in the UK.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and obviously we've got a lot of experience in the offshore market, uh, and that's you know, that that tied in very nicely.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose as well, there's a lot of people will go out to um different countries to, you know, it's part of their jobs to earn money.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean they're going to stay out there and live there, is it?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they've come from the UK and they go to Abby to Abby, they might spend 10 years over there, earn some really good money and want to go back home.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose traditionally a financial planner that was out over in the offshore market would essentially lose that client, I assume, if they were to go back to the UK and then they might see a UK advisor and they might not be making any money anymore from that client.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, exactly exactly.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, that that whole kind of being able to look after clients wherever they are.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously, you know, look, that the the offshore market, as you and I both know, was quite uh well was predominantly upfronts uh commission uh or upfront fees that were paid on day one, and then there wasn't a lot of incentives to look after the client uh afterwards, much like it was in the 80s and 90s in the UK.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's why the offshore market had had a bad reputation for for quite a while, just because they weren't servicing the clients that they did policies for.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's massively shifted uh, you know, over the past, I'd say, five years or so, it's become much more of an assets under management play, um, which is like, you know, obviously more like the UK, US, Australia, Europe, these kind of places.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that reciprocal ongoing fee has become very important to us as a business, um, and ultimately to the advisors that we work with.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they spend a lot of time focusing on assets under management and building that up and uh and putting a fee on it, and then to have to give that away when, oh not give it away, but you know, not have the ability to be able to service it because you don't hold the qualifications or don't sit on the correct license was always a pain.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the clients would either you know retire to the UK or to or to Europe, and obviously at the time Europe was passported from the UK, you could use the permissions there.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the UK was a nice natural fit and it um you know was was something that we we we saw uh would be an attractive proposition for our advisors, obviously, if they're suitably qualified to be able to go back and uh bit beyond that license as well to continue providing a great service if their clients did move back and continue that advice for them.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you started your you started your business basically from your kitchen table.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, it did.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll send you a picture afterwards.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then three years later, you've got 200 of you.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, indeed.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got uh we've got half a floor of a building now, um, we've got uh quite a big office in the UK, um, we've got another two two offices in the same building that we're in as well.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's grown quite rapidly, um, which some people would say, you know, you know, that's well, you know, kind of that that's that is very rapid growth.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we've been fortunate enough to to grow the business in a way that we monitor and control absolutely everything.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: We set it up that way.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh to be, you know, we use technology, as you were saying previously, and uh, you know, the different tools to be able to monitor what areas of business were doing well, what wasn't doing so well, and focus on those areas that uh that have been doing well.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: So out of those, so those two hundred those 200 staff members, are they are they employed, are they self-employed?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a mixture or it's a mixture?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got 51 advisors um and 50 coordinators.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um then we've got um we've got uh a team of uh you know, we've got a team marketing, we've got compliance, we've got administrators, um, you know, we've got a development team, um, you know, we've now got a mortgage team, we've got a property uh team, uh, you know, we we we've we've built out the business um with revenue generating areas and you know areas to support the revenue generating areas.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, so obviously that that needs a mix uh for both.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So at what point then?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're sat at your desk, right?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well you sat at your your breakfast bar, or whatever you'd say you were home wherever.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've got his picture of you like sat up next to you on your breakfast bar, haven't you?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Doing it, probably not like that at all, actually.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um at what point did you realize like this is kicking ass here?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're we're really going strong.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's start hiring some more people to you know into the business.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because to go from five to 200 in three years is insane growth.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's like easy growth.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was the journey?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: What was the tipping point that made you think, wow, we can really push forward here?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say it was kind of after the first that so we started off in April and we got to the kind of end of December.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we hadn't gone bang, uh, we were still in business.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: We were, you know, we had we had a handful of staff, uh uh then advisors, uh clients.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: But what we've been really good at doing was um was running it as a lean business.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And by that I don't mean you know, we didn't have you know 20 PAs or whatever it was, you know, it was it was lean, it was mean, it was keeping our cost focused.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um the business was obviously profitable, we've been cash flow positive since we started, which extremely proud of.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've been profitable since we started.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it was kind of all right, we're on to something here, and then it was the next, so the next year, um so in 2000 uh 2019, um, the year before the pandemic was our our first full year.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it got to the end of the year then, and that was when it hit me that, yeah, you know, I can not that I didn't think previously that it wouldn't do well, but I thought, yeah, do you know what we've got this we've got the foundations of solid success here and we can really build on this.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the key to that was hiring really good people at the start, and probably better people than we could have afforded, um, and better people than we probably deserved at that point, but people who took a active um, you know, an active liking to what we were doing uh and saw potential in the business, liked the way we did things and wanted to be involved in it, and and we've managed to retain those people and they've you know themselves have recruited fantastic people, and that that's how you know that's how we've grown.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so interesting then.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what you know you obviously left DeVere.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Were you kind of trying to create a business that was different from DeVere?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and no, I think.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think with any business, there's good things, there's bad things you like.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever company you're in, I'm sure there's people that work for us and they think they find really good things and they don't find things they don't like, and if they did it There would be things they take and things they don't take.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that was the same.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't say it was, you know, we were striving to be massively different.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: We were trying to do this, we were trying to do that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we just wanted to do things our own way, which was the key.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's been our you know, kind of thing that we say to our guys is that it's it's very easy to concentrate on what everyone else is doing and try and rubbish this person and that person.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, there's enough room for everyone, and what we want to try and do is create a really good industry that people want to join.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, that was what you know our main driver was was to make a good business that people would, you know, say, Oh, I've heard of Ox and I think they're really good.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm hoping so far that we've you know we've kind of come along that way.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's them, you know, that that's what we're trying to do.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to say we're trying to be do-gooders or anything else like that.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, we're trying to be a business that people are proud of to work in.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, I I was proud that I worked for DeVere.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there were some things that I loved, and there were some things that I maybe would have done slightly differently.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my own business, and we've been able to do that going forward.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what are those things then that you've done differently?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so some of the things that I think we've done slightly differently is we've really focused on our online brand uh and building that up.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've tried to we've tried really heavily to develop that and to try and uh to try and to try and build that.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things I think uh DeVir did really well was obviously acquire new clients.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and definitely towards my end of my tenure there, it was more about client servicing, but we put client service in right at the start and right at the front, and that was what our focus was on initially.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also feel that we were lucky enough to come in without any legacy issues or you know, things that had maybe happened previously that weren't going on now, and you know, we were kind of coming from a clean state in a much more regulated uh arena.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that meant that we, you know, that we had a we had a really you know clean, positive brand that we was uh, you know, we we were able to build from the start, which you know, I think was a blessing.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's not to say David haven't got any of that at all, but that was just something that we wanted to focus on and we thought would be would help us attract good staff and good talent.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I must admit, actually, I did a bit of um digging around online for your at your brand and your website reviews, all that kind of stuff.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it all comes across beautiful.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: It looks great, it's really slick, it looks clean, you know, it's got that international feel, not so kind of like I'm an you know, uh we're an offshore state agency type feel.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of them feel a bit a state agency, or they're a little bit too kind of like global, wanky kind of weird, yeah, we're fucking this, we're that, and a bit bit wall for wall street.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yours look yours yours has got the feel, but it's a bit more of a professional services feel.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like that I liked it, I think it looked really good.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the website I went through it all and I was going around, it was slick as you like, and it's really clean.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I could see if someone ever like if a candidate, for example, was interested in working for you, they landed on there, they would love it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um as well, if a client's doing their research on you and you've got 300 odd, I think it's 375 odd views, um, reviews, I think, decent five-star reviews, and I know it's legit.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it does read well as well, you know.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um online you guys are doing really well.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So big thumbs up to your marketing and branding.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, yeah.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Very good team and and uh and great people we got working there.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you hire market do you hire people for marketing in-house or do you outsource?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, all the time.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've got so so we, you know, kind of we that was an area that I felt that we really wanted to position ourselves well in.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um we was we were really lucky.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we got paired up with Alan, who's our head of marketing, um, fairly early on.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: He came on back in the back end of 2018.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, again, like I said, probably didn't deserve someone who'd, you know, who'd who who had his capabilities at that point, but he was, you know, fortunate enough to see uh you know, see see some good stuff in the business and what we were trying to do and came on and really transformed it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so we've got six, I think it is, full-time hires in marketing that work all day, every day on marketing.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: They don't do you know any advising or anything else like that.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they focus on.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we got a team of 12 developers that run our CRM uh that are in-house, um, that run our uh you know, that run our um uh websites uh and and all the you know all the all the things go in it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we've invested in it heavily um because we see it that is the way that the that is the way that the world is going, everything's online.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: You and I are talking online, we're not sat in your office you know over a coffee.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is how everything's going, and therefore we if we want to press on and we want to continue to strive and do well, that's what we've got to focus on.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've got to hire people with good skill levels to do that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see the role as a financial of a financial planner now to be a kind of face-to-face financial planner, but on the other hand as well, have to be quite a good marketer themselves individually?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think well one of the things that we've done well as a business is we've allowed people to focus on what they do well.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, do I want my advisors worrying about how to run advertising campaigns and writing loads of copy?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't, you know, I want them to be in front of clients and speaking to people and imparting the years of a you know knowledge that they've got um to help people have a positive outcome.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it helps if you've got an understanding, but I think it's about pairing yourself with a company that offers that support and uh you know gives you um gives you the ability to be able to uh you know focus on the things that you want to focus on as opposed to you know having to worry about worry about all that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can be everything, but I think having an understanding of it definitely helps.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the problem, isn't it?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've got these guys that are coming in and they're wearing so many hats now in the financial advisor role.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same with any kind of profession, really, where you're out there trying to win clients and they're kind of expected to be a marketing machine and go out and win clients face to face and go and see clients and do reviews and do all your back office functions and everything.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a huge amount of work.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people really understand the tr the time taken to do marketing correctly and efficiently, effectively.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it can really screw people over.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: You get that whole fear of missing out as well, don't you?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: You go online, you see one company's absolutely nailing it, and you think, oh God, why aren't I doing that?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: They must be earning loads of money.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've obviously invested in marketing.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's clearly obvious it's clearly got to be working for you if you're employing more people.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when you bring financial planners into your business, and you mentioned there that you know, you don't want your financial planners having to write their own copy and having to design their own marketing and uh uh add word lead generation or landing pages, whatever it might well be.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So does a financial planner come into your business and work alongside marketing and they might have an idea in their head of what they want to do to target specific types of clients, and then the marketing team will then implement that for them.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it kind of works?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and not, I mean, we we run a centralized strategy for marketing.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we will have advisors chip in.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say, for instance, our we had a company podcast for a while.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the advisors will go on there.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: We run regular webinars for our clients and prospective clients' advisors will go on there.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: We might ask them to participate in a specific piece.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: So our PR girl might get a uh you know, an inquiry into someone, you know, from a from a from a publication on IHT planning.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: We might speak to an advisor and ask them for their you know their bit on there.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all very structured.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And rather than them coming to us and telling us what they will want, we will work with them to find out what we reckon clients need, and then we'll you know help people uh get their name out there and build their brand with it, but at the same time not you know having to build it up from scratch and work.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, if you can use economies a scale and work with each other to build it up, that works much better than everyone doing the same thing and competing against each other for the same space.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find it quite anxiety sort of inducing when you first in because you've come from a background of pretty much old school, really, just picking up a telephone, like instead of yellow pages and making telephone calls.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, I think at that still absolutely has its place.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, picking up the phone, smashing the phone, getting out and meeting people just works.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think sometimes we hide behind social media because we think it's agreed kind of like an amazing cloak that's gonna kind of get us everything that we want.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's expensive and it's confusing and it's competitive.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so did you ever kind of when you started investing money in marketing, did you get a bit anxious about, oh my god, are we gonna get a return on this investment?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I think it's measuring the metrics and believing in the process.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I was fortunate enough to have someone that had done it.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think the key, you know, is that a lot of people go out and say, Well, I'm gonna say, you know, I'm gonna give my uh I'm gonna I'm gonna spend 200 pounds a week uh on adverts, which is great.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, we spent hundreds of thousands of pounds a year on marketing, and that's just on you know, our advertising bill.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's that, you know, it's probably in seven figures once you take into account salaries and everything else like that that goes into it.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's a big chunk of money that you have to do it, but you have to be consistent with it as well.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, you know, you can't, you know, with your podcast, you do it once, you're not gonna get a lot of listeners.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you do it two, three, four, ten, twenty hundred times.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's when you start seeing momentum build.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, for for me, it was uh it was I I I know I knew it could work, and I know it can work, um, but it was giving it the time.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it most importantly, first things first, is it was the people on the bus that were the important to getting us there to our journey.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was the driver of the bus, and the driver was Alan, and I knew he could get us to where we wanted to.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and he's done a fantastic job of doing that.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it was uh that that that's what worked well.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was less anxious because I knew I had someone good driving the bus.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Fine, look, totally, absolutely.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: So getting yourself so great of advice there, really.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Find the top talent, bring them in.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel sometimes that you were trying to do it yourself and wear that hat and you think, oh, I can do this?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you delve into it, or did you just go, no chance, I'm gonna pay someone to come in and do this.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I th I felt I at the start, I like most advisors and coordinators, I tried it, I dabbled in it myself.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I had an understanding.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I did generate a few leads that converted into clients, so I knew it could work, but I knew it wasn't my skill.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, much like you know, much like compliance and much like um admin and much like you know, all the different functions that we do in a business, I feel to do it properly and to do it well, you have to be giving it 100 focus all-time every day.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: You treat something like a hobby, it pays you like a hobby.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: You treat something like your full-time, you know, what you you you gain, you know, credibility and momentum with it.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and therefore, we're lucky enough that we've got people all day, every day that focus on it.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're only playing it, are you going to get playing at it results?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: So 51 advisors then, these 200 staff as well.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: This spread out across just just across um the UAE and the UK, or are you after global domination?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we've got offices in the US, um, we've got offices obviously in the UK.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've recently uh got some offices in Europe, we've got offices in the UAE, and we've uh got an office in Australia.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got one person in Australia, right?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which obviously, due to COVID, has been tough.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'd have, you know, we we got our license there last year, we acquired a company there last year, and it'd have been great to have someone over there sooner, but COVID has not allowed that.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so getting more people over there has has been tough.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've got obviously offices in the US and we've got a couple of people uh on the ground there, but again, that's been tough getting people you know over there, um, which is uh which is which has been difficult.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: So predominantly most of our advisors do sit in uh the the UK and the uh and the UAE.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: So from a model perspective then, are you an employed model or you a self-employed model?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: A bit of both.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have some people that work employed and some people that work self-employed.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, we try and cater for what people we realise that need you know one or the other is not the right thing 100% all the time.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do definitely see the offshore market maybe moving to more of an employed uh pathway uh as we go forward and as we take on more assets.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um but ultimately at the moment when you're in client acquisition mode, most of those people that do well in client acquisition mode actually like to be on that um, you know, that kind of self-employed or esque role.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say it's a lot less self-employed than maybe it was 10 years ago.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of you know that a support from a good company is uh is a massive thing now to deal with regulation, compliance happening, all of these things that are all needed to operate in the uh overseas market now.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: So pairing yourself up with a with a good company definitely helps.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: And what about you?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about the coordinator role there though, but you know, coming into a business like yours, working offshore, do you have the the administration, the power planner support, all of the stuff as well?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got um, I think it's I think it's eight, but we're hiring two more.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got 10 power planners, we'll have 10 power planners that work for the business full-time um soon.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's uh obviously uh, you know, that's obviously been completely different to what most people in the offshore business would it would expect.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um we see that as a big part again, mate, letting the advice helping the advisors and assisting them in providing a great service to their clients, um, which is what we're ultimately focused on.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then the administrators, you know, have to be skilled and technical.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's no longer kind of you know, back of a fag packet, financial advice, suitability reports, applications, illustrations, you know, all of these things have to be done properly, have to be, you know, past uh compliance before they go through.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore you need, you know, able and quality administrators.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been very, very lucky that we, you know, I said my PA joined us, which she's an absolutely amazing lady, Christine, and uh, you know, she's took that by the teeth, and you know, she now runs that whole side of the business for us, which you know is dealing with you know hundreds of applications a year and client and thousands of clients now.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh, you know, it's it's uh it's again great people within the business has helped us get to that point.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: So uh let's talk about sort of assets under management then.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: So what have you generated so far as a business collectively in respect of your AUM?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got we've got now got half a billion pounds um sterling of assets under management, um, which you know coming from kind of 30 when we first started has been fantastic.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's been you know dealt.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of it's been brand new, uh obviously, um, and then some of it has been from uh acquiring advisors with existing books, which has obviously been great as well.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and we're and we are on a uh acquisition trail in terms of AUM.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking to acquire more AUM, we're looking to build AUM, we see that as a massive part of the business to and the you know and key to longevity in the business on an ongoing basis.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And is that you is that sort of worldwide as well, acquisitions on a worldwide basis, not just say from the UK?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, acquisitions of books, acquisitions of quality advisors who will bring AUM in, building up that from taking people from our academy up to um you know, up to kind of financial advisors and you know, get and bringing in business that way.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're we're we're trying to take it from all avenues.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we're not gonna focus on one over the other.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but obviously a a good way to build up AUM pretty quickly is to try and acquire uh businesses.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I would say that's kind of step two of what we're gonna look at uh and try and get more uh and try and do more of that going forward.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: 30 million to half a billion is wicked, isn't it?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was good, but again, great team.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got we've got fantastic advisors, fantastic support staff.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't you don't kind of get there from uh for for for from anything less.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to have the fantastic support uh from the back office all the way through to the guys on the on the ground bringing you know bringing it in.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it it it's it's been it's been great, it's been hard work.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, you know, everyone's done a fantastic job, and we're very pleased and proud of where we are.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned the US market.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you've stepped over into the US market.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: How you know what do you what's your sort of uh view of the US market and and why did you set up over there?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: I feel it's a fantastic opportunity.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that the demographic of uh the US is extremely exciting.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um 350 million people that live there, it's the biggest market in the world.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's no there's there's no um you know it's no fluke that you know I think it's like 65% of the world's equity market sits in from the US, you know, it's it's is a place to do business and it's very exciting from our point of view.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um we think it's a fantastic opportunity.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: We think people that go over there will do really well, especially if they uh you know if they if they're looking to build a career.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, people in the US understand financial advice.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're you know, they're they're used to speaking to advisors, it's it's a wanted thing.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously very high levels of regulation.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: People are looking to do and uh and and do right by their clients and do the right things, and it's a very mature market, which is uh exciting for us to be, you know, try and be part of.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: What about like Asia then?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you over in Asia?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have any um we don't have any offices in Asia at present.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it is an area that we're gonna look at in the future.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've obviously got the uh office in Australia.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um Asia's an interesting one because obviously there's parts of it that are very regulated and parts of it that aren't so regulated, so it's kind of picking and choosing the places that you would like to operate in.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's um yeah, it's uh it's it's it's an interested market, but it's one that we've not got round to yet, focusing on kind of UK, Europe, uh, US and Australia.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: So whereabouts in whereabouts in Europe are you are you based at the moment then?
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh currently we've got um offices uh that we will uh be unveiling fairly shortly.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've also got a network that we operate under in uh in in Ireland as well.
• 1:01:47
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which is where we do our business through there.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: So but you're looking to be able to kind of operate across Europe then?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean we can passport in from from the entities we've got now to to to the whole of Europe, yeah.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we're looking to build up uh you know a good advisory function in Europe too.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, cool.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what does the next sort of three to five years look like for you then?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the next three to five years, I would say, uh, you know, really going to be focused on on uh building the business uh and trying to generate more revenue from different streams, I think is key.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think we've been in a in a in a very uh uh lucky environment at the moment when we've joined the business, when obviously interest rates have been low, uh, which would mean pension values have been uh have been highest.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's been a very lucrative market for us as interest rates uh you know will rise, no doubt, over the next five years.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: We need to make sure that we've got wide uh revenue streams and we're not relying on one function of the business.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's important again to build up good AUM.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, continuing to quality to try and employ good quality talent.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're you know focused on and we want to build because we realise that you know, without good quality advisors, you know, our key is to provide great advice uh and to be client-centric.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, you've got to have quality people that work for you.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's you know, that that's the way that we'll grow.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just end it on that then.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just talk about what a good quality financial advisor is to you.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of good quality financial advisor would fit in with you guys there at Hoxton?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would say uh someone who's obviously, you know, if they were coming in from an advisory point of view, then I would say someone who is uh, you know, who has obviously got uh a good level of qualifications, who has taken qualifications seriously in the UK and has taken personal development, so not just professional qualifications, but you know, likes to develop themselves and likes to uh go the extra mile, read books, you know, do whatever it is to help them get get get further uh on what they're doing.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um we look for people that are gritty, so people that aren't you know afraid to roll up their sleeves and help their coordinators go out and find business, especially initially and build up that client book.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and someone who's very client-centric.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: We want people that uh put want to put the client first.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want someone that you know is happen is happy to earn an extra pound if it's for the detriment of a client.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make sure that our advisors are good ethically.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we don't allow egos, we don't allow people into the business who have got, you know, um who have got uh prima donna status uh and you know and uh and and think that they're better than other people.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone in here is equal, down from the T-boys up, you know, up to the up to the senior managers.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone works off an equal foot and everyone's integral to the business.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to make sure that we're working with the right people.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling me you've got T-boys working for you?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have in uh in uh in uh in the Middle East, they're uh uh they're fortunately a uh yeah, they're fortunately we're lucky enough to have uh great office boys, I suppose they're we would we would call them, but yeah, uh they're uh they they they help the office function, and it's obviously uh much cheaper out here to to be able to do that than it is in the UK.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, mate.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, someone coming around making me cups of tea would be awesome.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now some of we also, as well, like the um especially let's talk about the offshore market just very briefly before we before we sort of bring this to a close because uh earnings, you know, you always see adverts, and you always had have seen adverts in the past promising you know the streets of pay for gold, if you like, if you come and work over in Abu Dhabi, if you come and you know uh work anywhere in the Middle East, you know, you earn loads of money.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now uh is it true?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, can you earn considerably more money in the Middle East as a financial planner than say the UK?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would I would say no is the honest answer, because I'd say in the UK there's the earning potential to earn huge amounts, it's just how much you want it.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same in in the Middle East, it's it's it's how much you want it.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's a massive um there's a massive uh incentive that is tax-free.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously you're not losing 40, 45%, or if you're doing it for your own company, 20%.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's considerable tax breaks, which obviously does boost up your earning potential.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's advisors over here that earn seven figures.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's advisors in the UK that earn seven figures, um, you know, that uh high seven figures.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, yeah and no, I think is the honest answer.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: Seven figures over there, you know, you're not paying tax, are you?
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're paying bugger all tax.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: Seven figures in the UK you're paying a fortune in tax.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you are paying a fortune in tax.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: So like that's what I was saying, you know, kind of having the uh having the no tax part definitely helps.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: There there are advisors that are doing it, but these aren't people that have come out and done it in one or two years.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: These are people that have been established here for a long period of time, have successfully grown, nurtured their client banks, um, have been very successful in client acquisition and have been very successful in looking after and retaining their clients.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult to earn seven figures if you if you're not doing all of those boxes, working six days a week, you know, 12, 15 hour days, uh, you know, ultimately.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and have a fantastic support that sets staff around you because it's very rarely that a financial advisor earns seven figures, it's the 10 people that he's got backing him up that enables enables him to or enables that business unit to go and bring that those kind of levels of uh remuneration in.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: The days of the product flogger out, you know, making a load of money out there in um the Middle East is gone, really.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna come over to the Middle East offshore marketing, you have to be kind of going out there as a career, yeah.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: The advisors that earn the most out here, and I know most of them, are people that are have been doing it for a long time.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not people that have come out in year two or year three uh and uh have been doing it.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: They've been here for a long time.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: They've said, this is where I'm gonna you know build my client bank, this is what I'm gonna do to do it.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they've gone out and executed their plan year after year is consistency.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the key to success.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing a bit about your journey and a little bit about Hoxton.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm certainly sure that we're gonna work together a little bit more in the future.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: So a company that I would like to promote because, you know, there's plenty of people that come my way who are interested in working in the offshore market, and there are a select few other of you guys out there now, which I would consider to be companies that have worth working for, especially the ones that have got a foot in the UK market as well, which you guys absolutely do.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, yeah, really appreciate your time today.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um have an amazing day.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Sam.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: Really good to speak.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.