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From Rent Increases To Notices: Practical Landlord Guidance Under The Renters’ Rights Act · The Property Unleashed Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: This session.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm joined by Alice Allison and Anthony, our resident lettings experts, along with other things as well.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And today they've got a great little session lined up for us because they're going to talk to us about real case scenarios, the things that actually happen out there.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not all the high-level stuff, it's sort of warts and all, but how you get around things and what you can expect from different landlords and what landlords are thinking as well.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, great to see you both.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: How are you both?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fantastic.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: When's this sun gonna come out?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a horrible, it just just it tried to peek out the other day.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I swear it did, but apparently it's coming on Saturday.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hold touching wood and holding our breath and all that.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: But oh honestly, do you have do you when you're driving to work in the morning?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: You just want a bit of a bit of sun, bit of positive.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't even mind if it's cold because normally you get a blue sky when it's frosty and stuff.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I like a bit of that, but when it's when it's like it is now, it's it's it's terrible, innit?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh dear, dear.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: But no, lots of um lots of things.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: This had been a very busy January, and lots of investors are now of a point of considering their options, and that's one thing I'll be coming on to today with one particular card.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've had lots of we did a webinar just the other week.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a lot of people now coming to us about the Renters' Rights Act and lots of questions, but lots of people considering their position as a landlord.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay, okay later.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: But then, yes, very much as as far as Allison, we've had one or two landlords that come to us each and every year with a certain bugbear.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, really?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: We can't control that, but there we go.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: But no, lots to uh lots to cover over today.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I I know you wanted to go through, you know, you've got uh a landlord at the moment that's got properties and there's certain dilemmas and things that he's looking at at the moment.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, hearing about other people's case case studies, so to speak, and what they're going through at the moment helps us all with our learning.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll let I'll let you take it away.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we had a client consultation or discovery call, which we've been offering free of charge for a number of our clients now after the webinar, because they've got concerns.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: We did a rent's rights acts webinar, uh, which we'll send you the link over to so people can watch it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of well, why are we I'm in certain positions in this position, this position.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So these are self-managing landlords, which a lot of people, and here's a stat for you, I think 80% is it?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: 85.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, 85% of landlords are self-managing, which is an incredible stat.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Us as a letting agency, well, that's crazy.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get some of those 85% of landlords to be with a letting agency.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: But what he's got, he's got two properties, him and his wife.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the first property was basically had a letting agency, they found the tenants, they did the initial checks, and that was about 15, 16 years ago.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: An awful lot has changed since then, as we know, in legislation.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what has then happened is after a period of time, because it was a single-let tenancy, there wasn't that much to worry about.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this is very true.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got one or two properties that are single-let properties, self-managing is very much straightforward to do.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll completely agree with that.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: There is lots of legislation as long as you keep yourself up to date with what you need to be doing, which is quite straightforward in a lot of cases, that's fine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: However, nothing has been done as far as a new tenancy agreement since 16, 17 years ago.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I will say to him, I says, Well, okay, are you did you issue this document and this document and this document?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Well, we do the gas certs every year.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I says, Right, brilliant.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the electrical installation, yeah, the electrical certificate.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as the EPC, I says, right.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot of tick boxes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as your safety certification, brilliant.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're in a good position there.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I then says, Have you issued the how to rent guide?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: He says, What's that?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, okay, no problem.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as the deposit certificate, I'm assuming there was a deposit, yeah, yeah, estate agent did that at first.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I says, okay, then did they issue the prescribed information?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's that then?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, okay.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a few concerns that should they wish for whatever reason to get back possession of their property, they had they had all their what's what's the something in order?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say eggs in order.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the phrase, is it?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's the phrase?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well that not the soldiers in order, ducks in the line.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was close, eggs, soldiers.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ansy tends to mix two different things, huh?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where were the fairies?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: We knew what you meant though, didn't we?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We knew what you meant.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know what it meant.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Get all your eggs in line.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ducks in line, right?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ducks are all in the line.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ducks in a row.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh dear.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We've had some drama this morning, so it's all all the new edges.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so I then says, right, okay.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Here's something that you should then consider.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because he says, This has been a rolling periodic visit periodic tenancy since then.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I says, Well, how are you getting on with the rent?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you're renting, he says, Oh, we've created our own Word document that basically gives them notice of the rent increasing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I says, Okay, so you've got documented proof you've done that, and the tenants are then happy, they're accepting that, and they're increasing.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Yeah, but we're not really charging a really because it's a friend of the family.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Right, okay, what sort of rent are you charging?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, well, he says, Well, we don't want to lose the tenant.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, they've been really, really good.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you'll have half of the town where they live in that will want to live in that property at that rent because you're charging too low.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And on one side, yes, look after your tenants, charge them rents that will be seen as beneficial, but don't gift them a property because there's a reality check there.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you come to a point at which you want to get them out and they're paying half of what they should be, you're going to have great difficulty because they're not going to be able to get into another property.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: They've got this normalization of thinking they should be paying X amount, but they should be paying Y.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So steadily increasing it year on year, giving them a slight reduction.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, if it was a£1,000 property, say, look, you know, you're currently paying, say,$7.50, I'll put it up gradually year on year, up to up to the sorts of rents you should be shooting, but not quite as much as other properties that are being advertised on the road.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know,£25 less.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because then they're seeing that as a benefit.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as the marketplace at the moment, we've been talking about a lot of landlords at the moment with this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: The marketplace is an awful lot more people that are sitting tight.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Voids are lower than they've ever been, rents are higher than they've ever been, and the amount of people moving has reduced.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So for us as an organization, the number of new tenancies that were set up with a growing portfolio on managed properties reduced by 25% last year.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: The years before that, you could almost within three or four a number of move-ins was very similar.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to my right move account manager and I said, How's things looking in the marketplace?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I obviously gave him about 25%.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Wow, you're doing better than a lot of agents.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I says, What do you mean?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: He says, There's somebody down in London that are down by 33%, 34%, 35% reduction.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Landlords are delighted because they've got minimal voids and higher rents.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: However, it's the new landlords that are trying to let properties where there's not quite so many people out there looking, and because people are happier sitting tight, thinking they're going to get a better rent.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so I've said this to this landlord.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I says, right, so with this position that you're in, he's then saying, Well, yes, but with the Renters' Rights Act, my current tenant, their rent isn't due for increase up until August.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I says, Okay.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's different things and different conundrums you've got there.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Well, surely if I give them a new tenancy agreement, it's going to become periodic anyway.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yes.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: However, you've got a tenancy agreement that's 16 years, 17 years old that doesn't protect you as much as it could, and doesn't protect the tenant as much as it could.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: My recommendation to him was do a new whole pack which gives everything they need to give to that tenant.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a brand new renewal on new tenancy agreement, new all the safety certificates, how to rent guide, the deposit certificate, the prescribed information, all the stuff he needs to give.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like a renewal, but as far as the end of the tenancy is still going to be up to the point at which the renewal is going to be coming in.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as they're fixing the terms, all the she all they're doing is regulating the situation, making sure that everything's covered.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that when it comes to the point at which they want to increase the rents in August, they can do that with the peace of mind that they've got everything as they should be, as far as that tenant's concerned.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now it says, but yeah, but if I if I uh you know, you've normally tenancy agreements are six months.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I says, yes.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: But as of the first, second, third first of May, first of May, everything goes periodic.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes no difference.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So all you're doing is regulating your position to make sure that those all that paperwork is correct as it should be with regards to that tenant, then come the point at which you then need to increase their rent.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just do a little letter that's your word document that you've used for the last 10 years.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's something called a section 13 notice.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, right, okay.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: How can I get these documents?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I says, right, another recommendation I would give you, I'll say you don't have to do this, but a recommendation I would give you is become a member of the National Residential Landlords Association, the NRL A, which means that you can download your own tenancy agreement.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: You will have access to section 13 documents.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, rather than coming to me for advice, you can go to them because that's the horse's mouth as such, as far as legislation is concerned.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, there's plenty of other benefits by becoming a member, and I believe it's only like£100,£150 a year.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: But he's now got peace of mind, then that the tenant is, you know, legitimate, compliant, the tenancy is compliant.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: All the different things he needed to worry about have been resolved.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then come to the point at which he needs to increase the rent, he can do that, and he's got the documents he can do that with.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: A key recommendation I said to him then, obviously, with us as an organization, we're doing lots of tenancy agreements and paperwork that needs to be signed.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: We use DocuSign, which is basically um, sorry, yeah, doc, no, signable, signable, which is basically the same as DocuSign, basically electronic signatures, which is recognized in court.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you send everything to your client, some of which they need to sign, they will then get a PDF of the end with everything that they've received, which means proof that you gave them everything you gave them.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I did say if you're going to do it hard copy, print two copies, get them to sign and initial everything that they've received, and then take the sign copy away and they keep the other copy.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, it may well be you then also do a cover letter, which is what we do with all of our tenancy packs, where every bit of documentation that we've given them, basically they sign a piece of paper at the end, which is kind of their welcome letter.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: We say, What we're going to do is we'll put this to one side, but this covers everything I'm going to give you today.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Put that to one side.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Go through all the documentation, get them to sign it, initiate everything they need to do.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, come back to that letter and say, Right, are you happy you've received this, this, this, this, this, this, and this.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I am.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can you sign the bottom of that letter that says you received it?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: This all may well seem, gosh, I'm you're really going to the nth degree here.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I say, Yes.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go to court, you've got proof.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's the thing that happened with another tenant.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, they didn't try and enforce it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But well, I've got no proof, you know, of the fact that I've received this, that, and so.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: They say, Well, yes, you've got a letter here that you signed to say you've received it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, I might have received it then.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fair enough then.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: if you haven't got proof, you gave the housing rank guide, you your court hearing can be thrown out very quickly.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's the littlest of detail that will go that far.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first story with one of their properties.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Any questions or anything you wanted to ask on that bit?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I think you've explained that really, really well, actually.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: But it's good to know because there will be I there will be a lot of people out there that have got this problem.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now then, the next one was with regards to a landlord that has got a property where he's pondering selling it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as far as these tenants and the situation that they're in, and it's a number of questions that they're going to ask.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's thinking, well, ooh, well, there are new tenancies up for renewal in August, but you know, do it, do I sign them for another 12-month agreement?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, you can't do that anymore.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's all going periodic as of me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, do I need to give them notice if I'm trying to sell the property?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on the situation as things how progress.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a stage by stage by stage situation.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to sell this property, and obviously, we then offer we we could try and sell it off market for you, we could try and sell it on the open market for you.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's almost a conundrum at the moment of, well, it's coming up in August, and when they're in a fixed term till then, you know, do I need to let them know what I'm doing?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, one step at a time.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, so if you've got a tenanted property, it may well be you've got a buyer that may well want to buy it as a tenanted property.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where you go through the as an investor, you'll always be doing the calculations of um the return on investment, and that's the key factor.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna invest this much money, but how much money am I gonna make out of this property?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then say, right, on that basis, if you were an investor now and you looked at that property, would you want to buy to that return on investment?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: We say, Well, probably not, no, okay.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: On that basis, its likelihood will be that there's gonna be a resident buyer that's gonna want to live there.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So do these calculations as though you're the buyer.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that they're going to want to see?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So he's then said, Well, do I let them know what's happening?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, no, because if you're going to try and sell it off market first, that's like a softly, softly approach.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a database of investors we'll offer it to.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then if that doesn't bite, then fine, we'll go to the open market.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you will need to let them know what's happening.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, what notice do they need to give and what notice do I need to give?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: With the Renters' Rights Act, this is where the conundrum was.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It says, Well, if I sell it, what notice do I need to give them?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I says, Well, at the moment, two months.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can give them two months' notice, nice and easy.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: However, as soon as the first of May comes, it's four months.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a case of right, well, if it's four months on 1st of May, that gets us to September.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens if we need to complete before then?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, this is where you need it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite a conundrum of where you're at and the facilities you've got.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: See different things you need to consider.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're considering selling a property at the moment and you need to get it vacant possession, you need to be thinking early about what you're going to do, but also make sure that your buyers are clearly aware of the position that they're in.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're going to buy it as vacant possession, that may well delay your ability to sell the property or complete on that property.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because another thing to consider if you're issuing the no-fault eviction section 21 at the moment, that's fine.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: You give them two months or more notice.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: However, they only last for six months.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have a limited time period once the So the Section 21 is only valid for six months.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you'd also have a limited time period from the first of May to take action on your section 21.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you can issue your section 21 right up until the first of May.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then once the first of May has passed, you've got I think three months before you have you've got to kind of go forward to the court possession within those terms if the tenants don't vacate.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a number of quantities there, but the key reason I'm saying this, and I wanted to highlight this today, is because it's it's a bit of a for a lot of people that have summer to summer tenancies in the past, whether it be academic years or whatever it may well be, and it's been a lovely family that's been living there in this particular property.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But having done the return and investment sums on it, it wasn't very good as an investment, unless they could do enhancements.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But again, there it was just it didn't need a new kitchen, but they could put a new kitchen and a new bathroom.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the key education side of this thing for the vendor was like this will probably be a resident buyer then that's going to want to buy to live in the property.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: With that in mind, I need to get my my ducks in order.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: The ducks in your mind as far as letting the tenants know, because the tenants may all be be happy to leave early.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just being very it's almost like a game of poker, but almost stage by stage by stage by stage, and depending upon fit how things progress.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that's one thing I wanted to make sure people are aware of.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you're coming to a point at which you're selling your property and you want vacant possession, when you issue those notices and when those tenancy or fixed-term tenancy agreements come to an end is quite key on when you can issue the notice and what notice you issue.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do do you have that?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Did you did your tenants go to court before with you?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: The other way around.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, obviously, this is this is as things happen at the moment.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's current basically the tenancy is not coming up to the end of August.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: I mean, if those tenants give notice, they have to give two months' notice to vacate once their tenancy goes periodic.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be May and June.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the start of July.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So realistically, they're already moving out a month early if they that was going to happen.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But as far as the vendor's concerned, if he gave notice on the 1st of May, once he knew what was going to happen, that's four months' notice from then.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's May, June, July, August.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So then they stay there a month longer.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So tenants can give notice during that period, so it may well be it's like the section 21s have been in the past.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You do two months' notice, but the tenant can give one month's notice as long as they're in their they're not in their fixed term anymore.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: You have been but you have been to court for it and the circumstances.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Different circumstances.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've been to court before in the past many times.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Many times?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, different circles different circumstances, whether that be tenants can move into a property, they pass the credit checks, all the different things that they pass, but then their situation changes.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: They split with their partner, they lose their job, all sorts of different situations that occur.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the key thing with anything when you go to court, it's not so much what you do when things happen and how you react.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about what you've done at the start.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if your paperwork is watertight at the start, you'll be able to get your possession back.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, if you've done a section 21, no fault eviction, and the tenant hasn't vacated, you can do something called an accelerated possession claim at the moment, which is where you don't have to go to court.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: As long as your paperwork's watertight, you've done everything, you've got proof of everything you've done, you will get your possession order back.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a long-winded process, frustratingly, but if it's a case of the tenants in breach, which is your Section 8 notice, you will have to go to court if the tenant doesn't vacate, having given them a specific notice.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the moment, if they're in certain amounts of arrears, you can give them two weeks' notice.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if they haven't vacated by that point, you can say, look, I'm trying everything I can here.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you another week to try and resolve this if they're over, let's say, two months in arrears.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if they haven't resolved that, you can then apply to the courts based on a section eight notice that you've issued.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: However, come May, different notices are going to be extended.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's the arrears notice now in May?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Coming May.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they have to be in three months of arrears before you can issue the notice, which is then four weeks' notice.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Did you because I had a section 21 once?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I did section 21 once.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I just get ordered, I just gave him uh one or two months of free rent to pay this deposit for the new uh new uh that held.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: He was he was a very annoying guy.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh also I bought him from bought it from another guy from from from a vendor, and I wanted to kick him out because I wanted to sell it on.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, Well, I can uh I will give you uh one month or two months for your next flat, and he was uh he was gone.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: I actually made a picture.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: My agent, my agent was there with section 21 handing it over, and she gave it she she made a picture of that she had received it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So as I said, any proof and every proof you can get date stamping everything.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It may seem silly, some of the extents you'll have to go to.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when I'm issuing with section 21, we'll deliver it by hand where we can.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I take a photo, get date stamp it, and we'll send it back to our team WhatsApp group.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've got a date stamp photo proof of delivery.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the key, I'll be I'll take a photo outside the house with the letter, so you can see the address, the name of the person, the property.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll even take photos down the road, date stamp, anything you can do, and then putting it through the letterbox, but then I'll also send it by email as well, which means that they've then got two routes because the courts will then say, right, look, even if the tech because we had one occasion, in fact, when I went to court, which was the most recent one, it was about a year or so ago now.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the tenant's initial stance was I didn't receive my section 21, section eight notice.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I says, Okay, you didn't receive it, fine.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: However, the judge was like, You're saying you didn't receive it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you I said I sent it by email and I gave proof of that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I also delivered it by hand with photo proof, didn't receive it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, since then you've received court notices for your court hearing today, telling you you're going to court because of your rent arrears.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did you contact homemaker properties to pay that arrears and to resolve matters or do a payment plan?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: On that basis, you had plenty enough opportunity to resolve matters and you didn't.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where if you go in there all guns blazing as far as everything you've got there to prove everything you've done, and a tenant, then all of a sudden they were claiming hardship, and it was like, no, you've had all this time to resolve matters and you haven't, you know.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, you've got two weeks, and if you don't get out, the bailiffs will be coming up.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it was great because the judge the magistrate or the judge was very much on, yeah, I mean blatantly a landlord himself, blatantly.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because everything was watertight on your side of things, it went really well.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: What I will say is if you're happy sacrificing with your tenants doing that sort of thing, go for it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the end, once you've got that possession, you've got the power.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Once what with when the tenants got possession, they've got the power and frustration.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they can hold you to ransom.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I will always say though, if you do any agreement like that with a tenant, is get them to sign something to say they have surrendered, they have agreed to surrender their occupation and they have agreed they haven't been evicted.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't want to get a legal eviction, getting claims against you for anything like that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they've signed something to say they're happy to vacate, we've come to an agreement, and the land we're happier than amicably between us who haven't been forced to vacate, it means again nothing can come back and bite you in the bum.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, very good.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: What a good idea of doing that.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Nice, nice.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And would would you ever go to the tenants and say the landlord's thinking of selling?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Are you interested in buying?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: We've done that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was one the situations with last year we sold one, didn't we?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, I did, but it was an off-market deal.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: The I remember when a number of landlords have been coming out of their fixed periods, about four or five year fixed periods at crazy low prices, and all of a sudden they're going up, and they've offered good rents to their tenants, but then it's come to a point at which I am not paying you to live in this property.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I need to make profit from my properties.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: With that in mind, your rent goes up to this, or you can buy it off me at a slightly reduced price, or I'm selling it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: 95% of them said, Right, that's fine.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that we're in the right place here.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've looked after us for a number of years, we'll stay in the property, we'll pay that rent.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: One or two of the properties in this particular portfolio says we'll need to vacate, and the property's then been sold since then.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, these things, these things happen.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But offering multiple options, so you've got your alternative clothes on the tenant is a good option to have because it means then that you're almost yeah, they're making the decision with you, or they'll feel they'll feel they've been involved at least a little bit.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And do you think with the changes and stuff that are coming in, that there could be more room for potential tenant buyers, you know, people that are moving in.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: If the landlord says, Well, you know, because of the way it is now, if I if I'm thinking of selling maybe over the next 18 months or or something like that, next couple of years, it's almost like them just saying, How would I stand?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: What do I need to do?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a case of saying, Well, uh as a company, I don't know whether you would, it's just me uh throwing it out there.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is would you say, well, we could actually look for potentially a tenant buyer so that they would be interested in buying the property off of you at a set time, and then it saves all of the other messing about, really, doesn't it?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, yes, as Alison was saying, we did it for one of our landlords, a friend of ours.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was his he inherited the property from his mum through probate, put some lovely tenants in there.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lovely family, actually, two lecturers at Bourwick University, although I will warn you on a few things with this one.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they basically we agreed an initial sale price.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: They then had a hook, line, and sinker, everything you could think of survey, because they were negotiators, and then there was this and there was this, and then there was an issue with the roof.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's then happened is the vendor has then had a legitimate roofer go out there who has then resolved a problem and then relayed the original bricks on the roof, which were perfectly fine.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: They'd then ask for a new roof.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've been told that we should have a new new roof tiles.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like absolutely fine.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: there was a warranty, and the vendor was like, Look, I've got an X amount of year warranty from the person that did the job.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll happily pass this on to you, and you can speak to the contractor after you've completed, and you can have that argument with them if you wish.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a number of other negotiations and backwards and forwards, and then there was neat redecoration.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: There was a leak from the bathroom, and there was a slight stain on the ceiling.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the the it was the ceiling around the bath, resealed, job done, no worries.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a case there was a slight little we need to have that wall redecorated, or or you need to reduce the price.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can we need to redecorate the whole lounge?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're not, you're not, you're not.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: But thankfully, there was no lending on the property, and thankfully the vendor was reasonable about that, and there was backwards and forwards, and we eventually got that, and it all went through as planned.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: But no voids, tenants don't have any issues, the urgency of a sale isn't quite so urgent, it'll go through when it goes through because the vendor's getting rent.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the because the buyer is paying over the odds on rent instead of a mortgage, they're motivated to get it done as soon as possible.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they're solicited for that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's plenty of positives with that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: HMO's a difficult situation on doing that, obviously.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's a single family let, then yes, definitely an option that can be offered, and in some cases it can work.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's cool.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, great stuff.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So uh over to Allison.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm gonna talk about say HMOs and utilities because this time of year I get quite a few of our HMO landlords contacting me saying my bills are high.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable! It's held in January.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So admittedly, some of the ones that I've seen are high.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the first thing is to check that the gas and electric are pretty even because they usually are.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had somebody, one of our landlords has come and he's got a ridiculously high electric bill, like I'm talking, he's an eight-bed HMO, and it was something like 700 pounds for the electric.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked at the gas, it was like under a hundred pounds, and I'm like, that's not right.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, see, to me, I look at that, there's something wrong with that central heating if that's slow.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was looking at our own, and in a week we've used 100 at our own house, and we're not there during the day.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's something wrong there.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, first, obviously, check that your heating is working adequately because tenants don't always report things, and the first thing they'll do is they'll just get an electric heater, plug that in, and your bills are gonna wrap up.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and we have seen a fire, well, at least one fire over the years caused by an electric heater.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, in our tenancy agreement, it does say not to use them.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, we do look out on inspections for those things.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one reason why the bills could be high.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've got to expect them to be higher in December, January, anyway.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: We have a fair usage policy in our tenancy agreements, which is£75 per tenant per month.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So admittedly, this one that I've had this week, it is over the fair usage, but I know that come the summer months, it's going to be well under.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that average it has to be over the whole year.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I would you know, July, August, you're probably getting bills£100,£200 for like that size HMO.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're getting the kind of£700,£800 these months, it will even out.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Although that is extreme.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: That is extreme.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And but most of the time, I think that it probably does even out.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never had never really successfully claimed of tenants for high bills.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's only been one instance where the landlord produced the bills over the last two years.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was documented, obviously, the usage as well as price had and they had really high bills in the summer, they were like 400 pounds, they were over the fair usage policy in the summer.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then come the winter, it was, and we actually calculated it for the tenant when they were there, what stay they had, what allocation they had.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: We went very fairly, and we were able to claim that from the deposit, so it went to adjudication and they did rule in the landlord's favour.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: We weren't sure how that would go, to be honest.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you do need to show that though, over the summer, as well as the it's an annual usage, and obviously, then yeah, comparing the same timescales over previous years, and that's the number of units, not the cost.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can also fix, you know, like we I know me and Ansi have an HMO and we have the bills fixed, so we pay a fixed amount every month.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we're paying over the odds in the summer.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: In the winter, it's a bit nicer because we're paying lower than what the actual bill is.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to keep an eye on it because you can get behind or get too far ahead.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that Rob we have noticed with one of the suppliers that they're asking us to be a month ahead, which I'm like, why don't we just pay for what we use?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's one quandary we're having now of perhaps moving suppliers because all of a sudden our account looks like it's in an awful lot of credit.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, the what the winter months will come and they'll come the end of it, then it will all of a sudden look like the fakes of that we're actually back down to scratch come the summer.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's one way or a different way of looking at it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, other things you can put in place to control your heating, which we're big fans of, and there may well be other products.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not biased on this one.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Time of stats.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which on one side you're giving access to your tenants to be able to control the heating, which you are obliged to do in a HMO.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: However, you have a control on it as well.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that means that you set it at 19 degrees during the peak time, 17 degrees during the off-peak times, and as long as it maintains those sorts of temperatures, or no, no, sorry, 19 and 21.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has to be the lounge area has to be, or living areas have to be reaching temperatures of 90 and maintaining 19 degrees.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: 19 degrees and then 21 during the peak time, so 7 till 9 in the morning, and then say 5 till 10 at night, or 5 till 9 at night at 21.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: However, if the tenants don't feel it's hot enough, they can press the boost and they can boost it for a maximum of two hours.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: That brought our gas bill down by about 25%.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: It costs a couple hundred quid to get it installed, but you get that back within about two months.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's two properties we've got that in.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we recommend it to a lot of landers.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's hive that you can get in different properties, and there's also other products where.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the key thing is if you're controlling it remotely, that's not really giving the tenants the control.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas a timer stat allows you to do that, and yes, you'll get your return investment very quickly on having that facility in there and you're ticking the box as far as the council are concerned for hate nose.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say, I'd say, if anything, maintain that gas central heating temperature a little bit higher because if the tenants are cold, the first thing they're gonna do is plug in those electric heaters, and that's where your bills are gonna rocket.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't I wouldn't be too stingy.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I have landlords that want to keep it at the bare minimum, they don't want to keep any heating on during the day or they want it really low.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I I just I'd have it a little bit under.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know in past years some landlords have had thermostats and they've locked them away in little boxes in the corridor, which initially we did that a couple of years ago, and that was fine.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there's since then HMO regulations have stated the tenants need to be able to control.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: I gosh, we're talking more like probably ten years ago, probably now, but last time we were doing that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's only some of our landlords, but they wanted to make sure that there was no abuse of the heating.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, however, those boxes are no lock, no longer locked away, and in a lot of cases, timer stats in place, which means that the control is there, but the abuse can't be.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's two degrees outside and people walking around in Bermuda shorts and vests inside, and then the windows are open as well, and you're just like so.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a good thing to have.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I we had an inspire system in one of our well, in a few of our properties, and initially the inspire ones are very easy to take off the wall.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: On one occasion, I did find it in the fridge.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a that was a wake-up moment.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we we now have them all thoroughly stuck to the wall.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: They can access them and they can boost them and they can do what they like.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I I like the time host stats, inspire and things was good, but initially I used to have the app and it bloody sends you notifications all the time.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: It drives you mad actually, and I don't want to know it, you know, keep yourselves warm and things.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: But what we try and do on my properties is I do actually with um with the gas and electric, is I try and have like a month in credit so so it doesn't build up too much.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: But like you say, when the winter months come, you start eating into that credit and things, and it it plays itself out during the course of the year.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the amount of landlords and people I see that are like, well, any credit I'm just gonna get straight back, and it's like that's gonna come back and bite you on the foot at the end of the year when they either your rates go right up or they ask you for a lump sum.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the one thing I will recommend with timer stat, which we've had quite recently, tenants reporting to us the heating's not working, the heating's not working.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm we'll then go to the property, yeah, cold as ice, and you're like, right, the boiler, repressurize.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's no error message on the boiler.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Simple batteries in your timer stat.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Change the batteries.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: The screen looks like it's working, however, if it's not functioning correctly as it should be, change the batteries.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's coming on now.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do a boost, and all of a sudden it kicks in, and you're like, right, okay, we'll remember that one for next time.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, time.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and how would you guys recommend if you are if somebody has an HMO and they think that you know maybe they have got heaters or they're abusing it and that the bills seem a bit high?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: What's what would you recommend the best way of sort of policing that?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, initially I'd I'd send out an email, or I'd recommend sending out an email just saying that you're monitoring it, yeah, it's coming out quite high.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And just remind them, please don't use electric heaters or just kind of list some of the things that they might be doing to have it at a high and just remind them that you should be doing these things.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: If this continues, we'll have to look at kind of putting in place.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Confiscate them.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Fair usage, yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Confiscate off me.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, electric heaters, in all fairness, we've had to do it go out and do, I've had to go out and deal with a fire caused by an electric heater.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: One of the I hate them, the halogen type ones that and they've been using it, and he said, Oh, the heating wasn't working.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't you report it?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, well, I thought someone else had.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, as a result, the whole room had gone up, the rest of the property, the ceiling collapsed and caused down water damage downstairs.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it was kind of like an expensive lesson for this gentleman about his electric heater.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we if I see them and the tenant doesn't remove them, we will confiscate them.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right now they are a few.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right back at the end of their tenancy.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I also heard that fair usage policies weren't really worth the paper they were sort of printed on.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's good to have it there as a guideline, but people from what I've heard and stuff are saying, well, what happens if they turn around and say, Well, I I've got I've had two weeks away, so where's the fair usage policy and all and you know what I mean?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: It can open up a rabbit hole.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: It can get messy, and to be honest with you, we haven't done them very often.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that any of a landlord really, really digs.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because we'll then say, Right, okay, well, during the summer then, are you going to give them a refund?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's the thing to it's it's good to have in there because it it's another tool that you've got in your toolkit, and it's something that'll be at the back of a tenant's mind if they decide to do something they shouldn't do.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: However, enforcing it, yes, it can be a bit of a grey area, and but it's it's a nice tool to have there as a soft tool almost.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: As a bit of a reminder to tenants that it's not unlimited.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if you're if you're wanting the tenants to o to pay the over usage at this time of year, then expect to hear back from them in July for a refund.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So and I try and get this point across to landlords, so don't always listen to me.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll worry about that then.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll worry about that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, so look forward to that.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's always difficult to deal with tenants.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's always pushback from tenants.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've done one recently where the landlord wanted to charge them and it's they come back.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see billproof, I want to, you know.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, yeah, and if you go back to the summer, they're gonna probably say all my money back there.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're not the landlord allowed to profit from the bills, the bills.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing, amazing.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's great.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Any questions on that, Walter?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, all good, all good, all good.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's brilliant.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you ever so much for that.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's always a great learning.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to have you both on as well.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: What have you got going on?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Anything uh coming up?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, we've got a webinar that's gonna be coming up.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the website is www.govtree landlordwebinar.co.uk.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what are we going into on that one?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's towards the end of April, so on the 22nd of April.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's gonna be it's a bit of an emergency last minute, what we need to do before the first coming.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's nearly here.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Renters, it's all Renters Rights Act at the moment, but it's yeah, focusing on fate on phase one and what's happening there.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're also with you next month, Mark.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: We've got the virtual event, haven't we?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Virtual growth summit that we're putting together as well, where we'll you guys will be on, sharing your knowledge about everything that's changing and coming up.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so really looking forward to that on the 13th of March.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: We've also did a webinar, um, kind of a pre-renters' rights app webinar just last week.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Was it the week before?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of weeks ago, now a few weeks ago, probably one a month ago, actually.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Weeks go past so fast.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Landlordwebinar.co.uk, is that correct?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so commentarylandoldwebinar.co.uk, and you can have access there to you register for the register for the latest one, and then we can then obviously they'll send a copy out to you on those as well.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's lots of things you need to be doing now.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, if you wait for the end of April, there's I'm gonna get these things done before the end of the week under the mud.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, but there's lots and lots coming up as an organization.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm raising money for charity and running Brighton Marathon eight and a half weeks.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just push this weather.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the reason I'm saying about the blimming weather, honestly, go on my big long runs on a Sunday.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, come on, let's let's sneak into double figures on the temperature.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's keeping you cool.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, on the other side, then it's like when's it dodging the rain showers for three hour runs, which is really, really good.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was saying a little earlier on, we do offer off-market deals if someone's interested in those off-market sourcing.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: If they're looking in the Coventry area, that is.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're looking at the fact of I haven't got the time, I haven't got the energy, haven't got the effort.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to define my properties, we do VIP sourcing as well, or you're looking for lettings management, straight things, or even a state agency.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, we can help you through the whole process, as well as the yeah, anything and everything.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: We want to help people to be successful in property, but maintain compliance.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's really, really, really important.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be an expert in everything, hence why we've got a YouTube channel, we've got our social media, we want everyone to be as successful as they can be whilst maintaining compliance.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, great to see you both.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for everybody joining us here, and uh, we'll see you all again very, very soon.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Take care, cheers, guys.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Bye for now.