Latest / Business Roundtable / Clarity in Sales: How Business Owners Can Sell Smarter with Joe Gregory, The Sales Catalyst

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Clarity in Sales: How Business Owners Can Sell Smarter with Joe Gregory, The Sales Catalyst · Business Roundtable

• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: am your host, David Carr, founder of Steward your Business
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: bringing people together to accomplish great things. And this week
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: we have another great new guest, Joe Gregory, the sales Catalyst.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have Joe on here. Joe, welcome
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to the podcast.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, David, And it's a joy
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. You know, sales comes up a lot for
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: me and I wanted to have you on here. You
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and I have some mutual connections. We're a part of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: another networking groups, Success Champions Network, among others. And one
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of the things that when when I first met you, Joe,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: that I felt was so valuable and why I wanted
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast is that, you know,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of business owners that their way approached sales,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: how they look at things is not clear and they
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: lack some clarity. And uh, night before we started even
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: recording this, I was sharing how we're at another event
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and giving greater clarity and businesses like I just need
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: to sell more. What am I selling? And so I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: just wanted to bring you on here on the podcast today, Joe,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: because you have a wealth of experience. We're gonna give
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: you an opportunity to share. Share that today. Get into that.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: But you know, take us back, Joe, where tell us
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: about your story in your your background, where you came from,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and why you are you know, so passionate about what
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you're doing now at the sales Catalyst today.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, thanks for that question. And so my
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: my journey and I'm sure at one point because it'll
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: come up later in our conversations. I was a psychology
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: major for my undergraduate degree at the University of Richmond
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: in Virginia, And little did I know at the time
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: that psychology is really what life is about, right, and
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: what sales is about because we're just other human beings
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and understanding of what people what makes people tick. So
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: psychology has been a deep interest of mine and I
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: bookshelves filled books around a psychology and too psychology with you,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I'll turn the clock back. So when I when I
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: first got out of college, I got in I was
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: in investment property sales and then decided to make a pivot.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And that's another key lesson in life right as we
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: make pivots, especially now more than ever right for people.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: And so I went to work for AT and T
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: in New Jersey and it was a real interesting start
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: for me and kind of ironic that I have my
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: own and for eleven years now I've had my own
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: sales coaching, training and sales performance business. And when I
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: started with AT and T selling hardware and software solutions
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to companies in northern New Jersey, quite frankly, I sucked.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I was I was terrible, and I got put on
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the uh, the old performance improvement plan, yeah, which you know,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: it's like I'm starting to break out in hives just
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: thinking about it, right, I mean, there's the worst three
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: letters to salespeople, you know, pee a pip right, And
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: unlike most folks though, I took it seriously and it
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: was embarrassing to me, and I was like, Okay, I've
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: got to up level my skills. You know. I went
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: from investment property sales of having to do three or
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: four deals a year to make some decent money, right
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to now I got to do six deals are more
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: a month, right, So it was completely different, and thankfully
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I got help. I got help from one of the
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: top sales guys. In the office. He spent several days
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: running sales calls with me and gave me some really
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: good feedback and thank you, Glenn, Kay if you're out
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: there anywhere listening. It made a huge difference for me
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the rest of my career. So that taught me that, Okay,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: little adjustments can give you outsize results. Right, you don't
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: have to throw out the baby with the bath water, right,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: just make some adjustments. And he gave me some adjustments
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: to make. I took him to heart, made them. In
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: my career took off from there. So I was in
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: a telecom hardware and software sales for a couple of decades,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: multiple leadership roles I got from. Moved from Jersey to Chicago,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to Boston, back to New Jersey and then to Colorado.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: So relocated, taking promotions and greater responsibilities. And along the way,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: since I worked with Loosent Technologies, which was AT and T,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: which became Lucid Technologies, which became a buy in exponents,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you know, large companies, I went through all sorts of
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: training and development, not just sales things, but this is
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: specific to sales today, and I thought, you know, that
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: would be really cool to do at some point in
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: my life and then fast forward in two thousand and nine,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: like so many others, I got laid off. You know,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: my branch was doing great, we were performing well. But
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: life happens, right yep, and absolutely, you know, we get kicked,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: we get knocked down, and what are we going to do?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: And while that was a painful transition point for me,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I went to work for one of the large, very
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: recognizable brand names of sales and leadership development companies and
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: did that for two and a half years, then went
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to work briefly for a client of mine and then decided, okay,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: now what am I going to do? And I'm like
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: this on my own? Yes, right, so another pivot point studying. Okay,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to develop all my own intellectual material, the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: things that I've learned over the years, and go and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: help people like Glenn did when I first started. And
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I was so fortunate to work for large companies where
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I got all sorts of really good training. A lot
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of people don't have access to that.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Yep. Absolutely, absolutely well, and that's why we have you
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: on the podcast, because we're all about giving, helping and
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: hearing from different voices. You know, I find that you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you've got to find somebody that resonates with you. It's
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: kind of like a doctor, a counselor. It's like a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: lot of people can do sales, but it's like, do
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: identify with Joe and his method, the way he's showing up,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the way he coaches, and and and and So I
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: love having different voices on here because I'm hoping you,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: as a listener leaning in, you're like saying, maybe I've
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: heard somebody else talk about sales in the past, but
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Joe's got a different perspective. He's been through a different journey.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: We all have different experiences, and so to hear Joe
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: your journey both both working in these large companies over
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the course of your and now running your own company.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: And it's a different thing when I feel I'm a
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: memoism now I'm actually living this out and somebody else's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: this is mine that I've created and what does that
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: look like? And I feel like a lot of business owners,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I'll put myself in there too. We make mistakes when
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: it comes to sales and approach, and we try to
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: do a one size fits all or just like, well,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: this is the this is it. It's like like you said,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: you just told me one example of a different sales cycle,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I can't apply that same thing.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: There's a different way in a different relationship and a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: different end street. And so understanding, you know, I think
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there nowadays that say
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: we'll just do these tactics and that's not it doesn't work,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: especially like I said something the oldest I can hit
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: up all the time, or like well, just make more
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: sales or you know, And I see business owners struggling
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: with saying this because they're not clear. And I love
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: to dig into a little bit. What are the common
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: mistakes you see as you're in your journey and Joe
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: that business owners are making in this sales conversation?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, there's a lot to unpacked there. Yeah,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: and I'll and I'll start by saying that, uh, not all,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: but a lot of business owners themselves have been rain
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: makers right when they started their business, uh, by necessity. Now,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: necessity is a great motivator, by the way, They had
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to go out and sell, right, So they were the
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: ones bringing in the clients and the customers and getting
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: things done and the and a lot of sales executives
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that work for larger corporations. The trap that we fall
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: into is my way is the way that works right.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And I'll never forget when I first became a running teams,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I got relocated by AT and T to Chicago to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: open up a branch in a suburb of Chicago, and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I was beating my head against the wall. Why don't
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: people do what I do right? Why don't they put
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: the time and the effort in that I do. Why
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: don't they sell the way that I do? And that's
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: when my hair started going prematurely gray. So when I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: started leading teams of people, now it's genetic, but it
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: did coincide with that, and so many owners and executives
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and sales leaders it's like, it's like, this is the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: way that we do it right. Well, I got to
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: help David be the best David he can be. Right
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: when Gwen was working with me years ago, he was
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: trying to help Joe be the best Joe because it's
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: not a one size fits all. And I think a
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: lot of owners have been really successful, say on the sales,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: you know part of it. So it's like, this is
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: how I want you to do it right, So right there.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: That's a huge one. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: The other big mistake owners, it's not necessarily a mistake,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: it's how you get your business story. But at some
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: point you've got to take yourself out of the equation, right,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, you cannot be the number one rain maker.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: That means you're not an owner. You have a job, right.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: If you're looking to increase the value of your company, right,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: you have to take yourself out of the equation and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: have a team of salespeople that are self reliant. You
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: need to provide focus and direction, right and arm them
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: with good training and coaching as well. But that's another stake,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: right is that? Uh, you know when to take themselves
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: out of the question. And it's not just in sales, right,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: and it's other way business too. You need to step back.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely well, I mean that's a conversation I've had
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a number of guests, especially in the merger's acquisition based joke,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: because like you said, why would I want to have
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a business? You're if you're leaving the business. If you
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: want to leave the business, you're the remain rain maker.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: You know all this stuff, You've not been you haven't
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: built a team, Like what am I actually buying here,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: how valuable is the company actually? Right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And then uh and and by the way, it's
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: not just business owners that do this, uh, sales managers.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: When we first step into a role as being sales manager,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: we want to jump in and be the hero, right
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and save the deal and stuff, and that that doesn't develop.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: There's times when you need to do that, but it
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: should be the exception, right. You need to develop people.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And again it goes back to my uh opening comment
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: about you know, majoring in psychology and being a huge
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: student of human psychologies. We're dealing with other human beings
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  Speaker 2: and that's what sales is. Unless you're selling a commodity
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: online and stuff, we're dealing with human beings. And when
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: we're dealing with human beings, there are two nervous systems
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: that are interacting, right, and we move between fight at
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: flight and freeze and also being in our parasympathetic nervous
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: system where we're calm, cool and collected right on sales calls. Right.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Buyers by definition right, they're nervous, right, so we need
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to be able to help settle them down. A lot
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: of the coaching I do is around how do we
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: show up in a way where our buyers feel safe,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: right right now, and right now, buyers don't feel safe.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: They're overwhelmed with information, they're tired of the traditional sales tactics.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: They don't want to deal with a salesperson. What they
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: want is a guide, a guide to help them make
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: sense of all the information that's out there, how to
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: navigate their own politics within their own company, and how
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: in the world do we make a good decision? Right?
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And a good decision I defined is high confidence, lower
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: gret right. And it's that lowergret. You know, oftentimes people
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: are confident when they buy something. In afterwards it's like,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: oh god, that you know that wasn't a good decision.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: So right now we've got buyers are fearful of messing
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: up right. So that's why there's delayed sales cycles, there's
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: uh stall deals, no decision, all those things. They're afraid
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: of making a bad decision. And one more point of
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that that I'll let you comment on. It is the
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: big problem that I see around all of that is differentiation.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And my message to people, my tagline is how you
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: sell matters. You as the salesperson, are the differentiation, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it is the buyer having a different experience with you
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that they are with everybody else. And what all the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: data tells us is you're not. You don't look we
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: have the same problem. The product looks the same, the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: service looks the same, You look the same. You know
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: what doesn't look the same the price. So they go, Okay,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: who's cheaper?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Things being equal? Right, Yeah, everything else is the same,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: go to price. That's a that's very powerful, Joe, as
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you're you're breaking that down, and I unfortunately, I see
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of the tactics, like you're saying, where people
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: are doing and they're they're using AI or technologies and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: they're coming up with like this formulaic you know thing,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: and it's like, well, I'm hitting hit. It's it's it's
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: basically the same thing. I get it up, you know
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: almost I'm pretty much daily, whether it's email or wreck message,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, there's no sense of like understanding me
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: as a potential buyer. It's it's more of I'm I'm
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I've got I've got something to sell and I just
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: want to I gotta find I just you know, I'm
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: just trying. Anybody could be that, And I'm like, if
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: anybody could be that. It just it doesn't. That doesn't.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I don't feel drawn to that. I definitely don't feel safe,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like you said, Joe.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and it's remarkable, right and and we
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: have we have all these great tools to be able
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to help us right technology right, and but it's a tool, right,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: it doesn't it shouldn't be replacing you. And the human
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to human interaction like we're having right now is the
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: key thing. And people do not feel heard and understood.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Buyers tell us that overwhelmingly they don't feel heard or understood,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: so they go not okay, right, they're feeling not okay,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: they're nervous systems activated. Right. Oftentimes it brings up their
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: mommy and daddy issues because either mommy or daddy did
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: take the time to hear or understand them. Right. Oh,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: by the way, mister and missus, business owner, this is
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: happening all through your business. Your employees don't feel hurt
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: or understood or care for right caring, just showing that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you care for the customer to really listen to them.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And the survey show that buyers think we do a
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: horrible job of listening to them.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: We go in it's like we're trying to sell them
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: something and they're like, no, I got a problem I'm
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: trying to solve. Right, first, help me understand what my
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: problems really are. You then help me solve them. And
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that's where being that mindset shift of I need to
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: be a guide and not a salesperson comes in.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I think that's such a great I mean insight, Joe.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: As you're saying that, you know, that's why I love
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: having you on the podcast is my synergy is building
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on what you're saying there is being a guide helping
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that because I think, like you said, if if you're
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: not clear on that and you're in your employees are
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: not clear, they're definitely not going to and if they
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: don't feel safe, there's certainly not going to exude that
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: into your client's customers because they're not feeling it within
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the organization, like and if they're just like, well just
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: sell more, just get this. Can't you figure this out?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I did this before and you should be able to
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: figure this out. And it's like, well hold on, let's
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: back it up. And what I'm hearing you say is,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you know, working with the business owner show from them
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: all the way down into the organization creating that safety.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: And I love that. I love that word because I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: use that too in my own coaching a guy somebody
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: helped understanding that what they need and saying, Okay, maybe
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: maybe we aren't a good fit for you, and that's
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: okay too, recognizing you know, we don't have to try
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to again. I think, you know, we don't want to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: use pressure and manipulation. I mean, unfortunately these things do
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: work to a degree. They can get us sale and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: you can check the box and my quota quota right, like, oh,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I got the sale, you know, because I don't want
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: to get being gonna be and I'm gonna p I
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: P you know, performance an improvement plan. So I'm going
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to do this. But it's like to what cost? Right?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh uh exactly and and you know we put
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and listen. Life is about how do we deal with pressure? Right?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And so some of the things I see right now is, uh,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: there's a huge issue around pipeline development. Uh in businesses,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you know, people are looking at how do we get
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: new clients? Right? How do we how do we uh
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: do more business? You know with existing clients and the
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: pressure that we put on people. What I see is
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: that they're constantly using CRM tools right to monitor pipelines.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing to do as an owner and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: as a sales a sales leader, but are we uh
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: are there the unintended consequences of people putting in stuff
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: in their uh in their pipe that has that really
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: isn't qualified and shouldn't be there just so that it
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: looks like they have a healthy pipeline. I go in
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and I'll do pipeline reviews right, and quickly the pipeline
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: turns into a sewer line. There's a lot of crap
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: in there, right, And it's to make the bosses feel
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: better that okay, well we have healthy pipelines when we
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: really don't. And there's that fine line, right, we need
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to develop our pipelines, but not with the unintended consequence
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: of we're working deals that we shouldn't be working right,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And what are the things the big shifts that I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: made years ago working for AT and T. At the time,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I was also in a graduate school getting my MBA,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: so I was really pressed for time and stuff, and
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm done. I got to get better at qualifying,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So I would start to look instead of qualifying opportunities
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: actively look to disqualify them. And I did an analysis,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you know, a win loss analysis, and I learned that, okay,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: that there are three key boxes, and people that are
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: listening think about this and how to apply this uh
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: to your box to your business. So my three key
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: boxes were, uh, they had to come in to see us. Uh.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: You know, we had a demo center where we could
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: debble all the hardware and software. We knew that once
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: they made that commitment, the odds of us winning would
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: go up. Uh. And the other thing was I had
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: to have access to people. You know, I couldn't just meet,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: say with the VP of it or uh you oftentimes
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: you get pigeonholeded it. But I needed to speak to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: other people.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And the third thing was no more than three bids
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: because I've always been in new business development. You know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: it's a rain maker bringing in new business. And uh,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: we were thirty percent more than our next competitor, much
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: less chuck and a truck, you know, the small business
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that can provide it. So somebody's getting five or six quotes,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it's like I'm out, all right now. I made some
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: exceptions for certain brand names of checking those three boxes
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: but they were exceptions that they were rare. So for
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the listeners, right, now, what are your key things right?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Where do you win? How do you win? What are
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the commonalities? Right? And go through your pipeline And for
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: most people it's like, oh my god, I don't have
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: any of those three boxes checked right? What are those
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: just a few key things?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's great to have somebody like you, Joe
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: that you can pull back look at that I find
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and I do find businesses they but what even they
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: sell something because they're so they're so desperate for they
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: want to get the sale and it's not the idea,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like you said, they get the sale and now it's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: an ideal client. And actually at the end of the day,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: is it even profitable? You've got the quote sale? But
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: now they're a very difficult client to please, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and they're never going to buy from you again most likely.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And that goes back to buyers are
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: looking to make a high confident, low regret decision, right,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So we as the sellers right and again I'm breaking
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: out in hives like some of the deals. You know
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: that both as a sales leader and as a salesperson,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: you know that I won where I knew and typically
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: knew early on that this customer there going to be
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: a pain in the ass or you know whatever it is, right,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: And always it would come back in sight and I'd
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: look at myself and say, I knew this early on,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: and I took it anyways, and that's on me, right,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: that's you know, that's not on them. And another story.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: You know a client of mine, a company that I
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: worked with when I first got in there. Everybody's talking
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: about it was their largest client, our revenue wise that
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: they had, and this client was ridiculously demanding. Uh, you know,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the type of people you don't want to work with.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: But they were generating so much revenue. And I asked
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the question, we make it any money on them?
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Right? And so we have the controller's office, you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: run an analysis in financial analysis. We were losing money
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and the customer was demoralizing our workforce. Right, So we
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: met with them. I facilitated the conversation, here are the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: rules that we can play by, here's the pricing, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: we agreed to part ways, right, and it was like
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: a celebration of okay, yeah, the revenue drop. But we
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: were losing money on it, right, Yeah, and the morale
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: of the people in the company of having to deal
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: with this. So that was a very low regret a
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: sale that was made, or excuse me, a very high
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: regret sale that was made. So you know, where do
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: we have that? You know, for business owners out there,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: who's your customer that you need to have a serious conversation.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: With, right and they have somebody like you, Joe come
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: in and help them and guide them. I think is
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: so important because I've seen exactly what you're talking about, Joe. Particularly,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've worked with a diversity hire company
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: where they're subcontractors well a larger company and so they're
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: pushing all of them down, if you will, And I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: get it, they're trying to maximize things, but you've got
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: to do it. It's got to be mutually beneficial. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: it was not mutually beneficial. It was pretty much one
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: sided to what your point is great, Joe, and I
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: feel like business owners can get like you said, they'll
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: see the revenue that the revenue coming in, but at
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, actually what's the profit And
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: that's really what we need to focus on, is what's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the apple.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: David. You know, what's coming up for me is, uh,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: you know, we we need to have an intention going
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: into a sales call, right, and and and two. Oftentimes
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: salespeople are like, all right, uh it maybe I want
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to get a want to get the appointment if I'm
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: making a prospecting call, or i want to make the sale.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: My intention, and I teach this and my attention because
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I'm in sales, is to have a relaxed conversation human
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: being the human being, to see if I can help
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: them or not. And I'll say that again so the
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: audience can write it down. And then I want to
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: unpack it, to have a relaxed conversation human being to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: human being, to see if I can help them or not.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: So it starts out relaxed. I got to show up relaxed, right.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: And here's my metaphor that I use as the snow.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Globe you're listening, Yeah, you got a snow globe there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a snow globe. I use this with
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: my clients and I actually give them to them. And
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: it's snoopy with a woodstock. And this is our this
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: is our head. Right. When we have less on our mind,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: we do better. Our nervous systems. Unfortunately, you know, we're
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: thinking about all the stuff we need to get done
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: on the sales call, or we just got you know,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: bad news and a voicemail, or we saw something on
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: the news. We're shaken, right, Remember they're shaken when they
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: show up at a meeting because their guard is up
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: around salespeople. I have to be regulated, so they regulate.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: So we need to relax, right. And by the way,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: going back to Glen, that was one of his big
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: pieces of advice. It's like, Joe, you're way too uptight.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: To see your foreheads all crinkled up and you're really
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: really intense, and it's like, you've got to relax more.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: The next word is conversation. It's got to be a conversation, right.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: No one wants to be pitched, right, No one wants
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: to be sold to. So have a conversation human being,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the human being realizing that they're another human being. They've
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: got all their pressures at work, they've got their pressures
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: at all. All, right, really connect on a human level.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And then it's to see if I could help them
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: or not. Some people aren't ready to be helped, even
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: though they desperately need it, right, And it's my job
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: as the guide, right, is the facilitator. I teach how
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: to facilitate a buying conversation to help them realize, oh
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: that I need Joe in my life, right or for whatever.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You're a product or services, so you know that's a
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: philosophy that I teach. And as you know, I mean
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: too oftentimes with traditional sales training, and you know it's linear, right,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I've run thousands and thousands of sales goals. They are
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: not linear, right, They are all over the place. That's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: why we need to be settled down so that we
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: can hear the key things to say. You know what, David,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: you mentioned you know you mentioned ABC a couple of
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: minutes ago. Tell me more about that. Right now, I've
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: got them talking about a potential issue for them. But
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: so oftentimes we miss it because I've got my ide.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got you've got my other thing I've got
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to get through, right, Yeah, And we may be we
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: may This has been my experience to Jo or I've
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I've talked past it. They're actually ready to buy the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to keep going and I'm like, I
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: haven't listening. Better, Like, listen to the cue, listen to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: how they're saying what they're right, be calm and and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and curious, uh, and listen and see what what is it?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Like you said, where could I help them?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Go?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: With? I like how you said, I'm going with intention
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: into the call bill have this conversation or the lax
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: conversation I'm repeating back everybody gets us the lax conversation.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And to see where I may be able to help them.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I may not be, but hopefully I'm always I'm always looking.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you are, like, where can I help I have?
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: I want to add value? Is there something in a
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: way that I can serve them?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Right? And and part of that process, right is helping
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: them settle down to see that they want to play
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: with us?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Right? Because uh, for in sale and in life, right,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: our time is incredibly valuable. Where are we putting our
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: efforts towards? And the metaphor uh that I use uh
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: and I use this with with customers because oftentimes you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: you know, even to my business. Now, you know, I
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: get brought in and and they're on guard, right, and
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: they're not sharing things with me, and it's my job
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: to get them to open up. So the metaphor David.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: That I use is.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And I'll call the time out. I'll go, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: time out. You know, I'm I'm I'm sensing here that uh,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing you know, a good job, you know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: asking uh the right questions. And uh, here's a metaphor
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I'd like to share with you, David. And the metaphor
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: is the way that I work in sales is, uh,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: we're putting together a puzzle. And David, when we put
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: together a puzzle, if we're putting a puzzle together, what
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: does that look like? You can answer me? What I'm
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: putting together a puzzle? Oh?
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm getting all I'm getting all the pieces
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: out there, laying them out there, and then I'm trying
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to figure out how they all go together, you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: and what's this? Yeah, you know? Yeah.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: And if we're doing that together, right, we're on the
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: same side of the day. Yep, We're on the same team.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Unless you've got a crazy mind that pieces upside down.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we lay it all together.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: And I love what you said. We're on the same team.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: We need to put together a puzzle here right. What
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like right now is we're playing tennis where
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: there's a winner and loser on every point, right, and
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: tennis isn't my game in sales, right. I don't want
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you to ever feel like you're losing something, and neither
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: do I. Neither do I on my end, We're not
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: on opposite sides of the court. We're sitting down putting
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: together a puzzle. And when I share that metaphor with them,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: they typically start to relax, they start to get it right,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: and if they don't, then I realized, Okay, well, if
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: if I'm not going to get access to people right
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: and the things that I need to do the right
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: fit for them at this particular time, and.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: That's and and that's okay too. I know we're getting
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: close to end of the podcast. Joe, this has been
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: very insightful. I hope everybody is listening. Here's show's unique
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: approach on this, and I love the relationship side of things.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Show that the way you're you're describing it. You know,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: we've covered a lot and I know we could definitely
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: go more, so we'll probably have to have you come
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: back to the podcast, but I you know, what would
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you say, is you know your key takeaway if you
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: heard nothing else, if you're listening to this and you're
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: struggling with sales, You're you're struggling and you're whether you're
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the business owner, sales manager, what what the case? What
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: would be your key takeaway?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Here it is and people should write this down. What
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: does a good day look like? For you? What does
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: a good day look like for you? And David I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: do expectations gap analysis. I go into businesses and organizations
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: and ask I asked people that what does a good
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: day look like for you? They don't have any idea, right,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And a good day related directly to sales has to
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: be process oriented, not results oriented. What are the two
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: or three key activities that drive business in your particular business?
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And those are the boxes that need to be checked right.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And this applies not just to the salespeople on your team,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: but in all the other roles that people play. Do
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: they understand what a good day looks like? And I
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: promise you they don't. You're very few organization. These people
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: are all over the place. And I'll close with David
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: was saying that the scariest part is when I ask people,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: when you come to work each day in any role,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: how do you know what to work on? You? Know
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: what the answer is. Almost all the time email, email
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: is driving people's days, right, instead of what are the
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: key levers of my business for this particular role, right
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: that I need to check the box. I don't care
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: if you've worked twelve hours. If you haven't checked those
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: two or three boxes, you haven't had a good day yet.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: This goes back to you started with talking about clarity,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: right yep, you know, getting really really clear on what
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: are the levers that move your business right and making
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: sure people are moving those levers and moving the needle
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: every single day.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Oh man, you given us great insights. Guys can connect
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: with Joe and I. We're actually connected on LinkedIn as well,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: but the sales catalyst you can conet connect with Joe there. Joe,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. I feel like
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: you This is episode wasn't you know? There's no hype here.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: It's really about health, Like how do we build sell
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: health health? How do we build leadership health? You know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: we want to help you be the healthiest person in
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: all aspects, and sales is one of those parts of
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: the big part of the of the business.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Bo. So thank you, my pleasure, thank you for having
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: me David absolutely.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for being here with us up on the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: podcast once again. We of course invite you to like
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and subscribe wherever you may find the podcast on your
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: favorite platform. Leave any comments you have. We'll make sure
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: that Joe gets them so he can respond to them,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and we look forward to having you back again on
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: our next episode of the Business round Table Podcast. Thanks
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: again everybody for joining us. Have a great day.