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Transitioning Triumphs: Navigating from a Corporate Job to Entrepreneurship with Business Coach, Leigh Howes · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, the mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Today I'm delighted because I'm going to be chatting with Lee Howes and she is going to be talking about her experiences running her own business, where she mentors and coaches other business owners to achieve success and also define their own versions of success as well.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: But Lee has had a really varied career.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: She's worked at a head of HR level in a number of leading restaurant groups.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking about her shift.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: She's had a number of shifts and pivots over the years.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking about that and her experience, then of moving from corporate life to running her own business.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, lee, for joining me today.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's such a pleasure to chat with you and learn what about you and your experiences.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So I really appreciate you taking the time to talk today.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you holding the space, so thank you for having and inviting me?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: No, it's absolute pleasure.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So I was on your website before we jumped on the call and I could see there was a lot about how individuals define their versions of success, particularly business owners.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So what is your experience when people come to you and how are they measuring success and how do you help them see things differently?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, a wonderful question.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I think success is so unique, isn't it, to the individual.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: What I notice this is what I notice, and what I'm going to do is I'll just speak about people that perhaps have worked in employment and then come out to run their own businesses, because I know that that will apply to a number of your audience.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I think we get caught up sometimes in the shoulds and the needs, and I think, to be honest, a lot of people that generally I find myself in front of in some shape or form have almost created that for themselves, and what I mean by that is we go through these periods of evolution right.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So along our journeys, things change, life, stuff happens, and therefore I don't know that we take enough time to almost step off that hamster wheel and reflect and think about what is important to me, because that, to me, is what success is about.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: What's important?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Because if I judge my version of success as the same as yours, I might find things important that you don't.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So I think, firstly, it starts with that.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: So people will come sometimes and they've got caught up in what they're doing and for the most part, they love it, but when you lift them out and just really almost like give them that opportunity to reflect on what matters most to you.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Then you can find out what success really actually means, rather than the version that they thought they needed to be part of.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: And I honestly believe that that change is particularly when you become a parent.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think what I would have defined success as being pre-being a parent versus now are two very, very different things.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: So for me, success me personally it would be about having enough in order to live the life I want to live, and the life I want to live varies according to the stage my life is at.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm all about the simple things now, whereas if you'd have asked me 20-30 years ago, it would have been probably more of the material things than perhaps those I have now.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if that's sort of like round the houses of what success looks like.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I think the key thing for me is I have to strip it there.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So, with my clients, I have to go.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Let's just strip it there and really understand what matters most to you and let's really understand how you're working now.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: So what's the current reality versus the way you really want to be living and working and fulfilled and then we can build out that version and the tactics and you know all of the strategy and the version of yourself in order to become that version of success.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of noise as a business owner.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: There is so much.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: You just have to scroll through Instagram, you know, rushing teeth, whatever, and it's like launch a six-figure business.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I launched a six-figure business in three months or something.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Then you were like, oh, my business been going so long and it hasn't made this and therefore it's failing, or whatever.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And I think there is so much external pressure.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we feel external pressure in all parts of our lives.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: But you know, as a business owner, it's quite hard then to think, oh, am I doing things wrong, because I've not done this that's supposedly successful.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think it is really important.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I do think as you get older you become more equipped to be able to see that.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: We were chatting before we came on.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: How fast has the internet evolved.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: You know, many, many years ago we didn't have those comparisons.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: We might have had them in the office.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: You know workplace friends, you know colleagues, etc.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But we're surrounded by it now and I think we have to make a conscious decision to step back and really go into, like that core piece, because you know I'll have clients that might have much more, you know, bigger, substantial businesses than I'll ever dream of having, because it's just not on my wish list, it's not something I want to build.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: So you know, for me, like one of the first questions I will also ask clients who are building businesses is what are we building here?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Are we building something that pays you a wage?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Are we building something that you want to sell and leave a legacy?
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Are we building something that generates you cash that you can invest elsewhere?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Like, what are we actually building?
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And again, that taps into that version of success and once I think you can stand in that almost that strong self-esteem of what you're building yourself.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: The noise, naturally, will drown out.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: When you're, you know, fulfilled on a purpose, you know your own direction, then I think you have the ability to just, you know, close the ears, close the eyes and see what you need to see.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I think when you're in a period of doubt and lack of clarity, it's easy to look back to right, much easier.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Did you always want to work for yourself?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: No, I don't.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Now, in fact, it's so funny you asked that question because I just it's so fun when I'm having these conversations like something will just come in my mind that I haven't thought of for years.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: And as you've just asked me that question, I know I didn't because I used to interview.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So when I worked for the companies I worked for, I said a lot of interviewing and I'd have some people sit in front of me who had worked for themselves and a question would be in my head why would you do that?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Do you work for yourself?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: My dad did run his own company, but he ran it by himself.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: So this is another interesting piece.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: He never really hired people and I did a question because obviously he could never build it as big as he wanted to build it, but no, there was never.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't look at my dad and think I want to do what my dad does.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed working for other people.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: No, there was no aspirations until I became a parent.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: So what was the drive of this?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: You became a parent.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Did you go back to?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: work to corporate.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I took I did take a big chunk of maternity leave, so I was definitely the person before the baby was.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was commuting at the time from Hartfordshire down to Surrey, so you know anyone that's done the N25, it's a long commute.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: It's a short commute when there's no traffic, but when there's loads you're a bird, you're exactly.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Or if I could just tap my heels together, I could be there really quickly, but anything up to you know, from an hour to three.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So, pre-child, I was never a clock watcher, probably always one of the last in the office.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I was ambitious, driven, very, very focused on my career.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: And then I took 14 months off to have my eldest and I came back to work so the time I was heading up HR in our head office.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So they were very kind to let me do three days in the office and to at home, which I'm, you know, going back 10, 12 years now.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: That was big and this wasn't normal at all because of the nature of the role.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Really you needed someone on site.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So they'd already made some compromises for me to do the role, which I'm, you know, always very grateful for, but for me then to come back and do four days, which is really what I wanted to do, and also continue in that role, it just wasn't feasible and therefore that in itself opens up lots of different questions about where have you got to all that hard work that you've put in to reach a stage in your career which was on an upward trajectory?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Like, no doubt about it, this was like it was a big move.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It was a move that scared me every day the promotion I had into the role.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: So I was on an upward trajectory and then it just plateaued because I was like, where do I go?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: What do I do now?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: So I moved into a project role.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: They created a role for me and I moved into a project role and it was yeah, it was a difficult time, but the journey continued.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I was then fortunately given an opportunity into a seconded role with a sister company which was closer to home because I was also commuting.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Still, it was all just, it's just a lot of balls are up in the air.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Everything was felt so different.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: The person, my identity had changed.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: All of these things.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: The conged role made it a lot easier.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I was able to commute.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I was back in my real love of the work that I wanted to do.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I was heading up with the manager and director of the pizza, the pizza company that I was working for, and working alongside the operational team, and again, it put me back on an upward trajectory.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And then some circumstances happened within the organization that meant that I needed to go back to the company I was and the only role that they could really put me back on was back in the field, which is the role that I did before I'd been promoted into the heading up HR, whilst the salary would have stayed the same.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: It was a step back and I just wasn't prepared to take it.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: What I started to do was I started to look for other opportunities and actually, when I reflect now and look back, it wasn't that long ago, but people's circumstances and attitudes to flexible working just was.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: It wasn't really a thing, and every person I spoke to was itching to get me in front of their clients.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: But they were like we need your full time and you either you can either do this lesser role part-time or you can do this full time run.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: And I just I think I have this.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I'm an only child, I am fiercely independent and I do have a bit of a stubborn streak, and I just thought I'm not prepared to do that.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I started to look at what else and I'll be honest, it was terrifying.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: But at the time I'd also started a bit of a side hustle in network marketing and I think what it did would open my mind.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So your earlier question about did you want to work for yourself?
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: But when I started doing this, I was like this is quite cool, you're in a bit more control.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So it was network marketing with a company called Forever Living Products, which I'm sure many people have heard of.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I still have.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I still have a business with them.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge advocate of the industry done right.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I think it has a bit of a bad rep, doesn't it?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: It does, it really does, and I think I found that hard and definitely.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's like anything when an opportunity is open to everyone, that's amazing, but with that comes challenges and therefore it's really about it being done right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think there's a stereotype of you know whether or not it is something that people approve of or not, but what it did do was it showed me a different way.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I was very conditioned as an employee and that was just how.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: That's why I would sit with people and think, why do they want to work for themselves?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Like, it seemed my dad and he'd done well for himself, but I'd also seen you know the challenges that come with running a business.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: But I was like maybe, just maybe, I could do something.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And then, because we started having these conversations, I just craved flexibility.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I think that was the thing for me.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: My identity had changed, my circumstances had changed.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't prepared to compromise and I just thought I honestly don't see how I'm going to continue to grow doing what I'm doing unless I go full time.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: And I just wasn't prepared to go full time.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So you know, for me that was part of the reason why I am.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I decided to step away from that, to be honest.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: What did you do when you stepped away?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Did you do what you're doing now?
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: What did you start doing something differently?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: When I stepped away.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So this is a really important part of my journey, because it's the one thing I say to people that I think is a really good lesson for those who I support, and that is I winged it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So I had no real intention, I just stepped out and was like okay, what skill set do I have?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So I literally was like okay, so what am I going to do when I come out here?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I've got this skill set.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I don't really understand about running a business, and so what I did was I just went out to my network and I just said to them I'm available.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Like what do you, what do you need?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: So I really was unintentional about it, which is crazy.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: You were a freelancer sort of to begin.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I thought I'd come out to run a business, but you know, when I reflect back, I wasn't running business, I was absolutely a freelancer and I had contacted you know a number of people to say, look, this is me, this is me available.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: If you need me to help you, then let me do that.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Within two weeks of deciding to move somewhere else, I had got a gig working.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I was facilitating a senior leadership team within a very, very well known restaurant brand At the time.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It's so funny because I go, I had a broken my foot and I was five months pregnant with my youngest son as well, and I rocked up to this leadership meeting.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I remember it and I loved it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I was absolutely terrified because you're on that other side of the fence, but I absolutely loved it.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: So it came out.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I did some consultancy within sort of HR, facilitating leadership development, but also my probably my biggest gig to start off with was working alongside an executive headhunter and moving, because I've done a lot of recruitment but I've never gone on the other side, so I'd always done it in house.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So that was a real experience as well.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: So I did all sorts of different things, probably for two years, I reckon.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Freelancings is great, you know, and I think he's not really talked of as a career option for people.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I work with freelancers and speak to a lot of freelancers and people that are freelanced at some point in their life and it does give you that flexibility and it does keep you in your industry or in work and you know it pays well and yeah, I agree, and it comes back to your earlier question about what does success look and feel like?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I truly believe the better we get to know ourselves, the more we can build something that's in alignment with what you know, leverages more of our brilliance.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And running a business does not suit everybody, and freelancing could be a better option.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So you know what is the right way to bring in revenue for you and it can pay really really well, it can.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, because I'll get some that are like oh my goodness, they're earning a huge amount of money, they have one major client and they're working the way they want to work, that they're going into that panic mode, which is right.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: It's risky, of course.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: It's risky when you're a freelancer.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: If you just rely on one, you know stream of revenue coming in, but it also brings its benefit.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: So you just have to weigh up.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You know the pros and cons, don't you?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: People obviously think that owning a business, online freelancing, is risky, but you know we're talking at the moment, september 2023, there's been so many redundancies that have been announced you know, recently with Wilkinsons, but you know we've seen them all year.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Now a lot of tech companies have gone under and I see a lot of people you know my peers that are looking for work on LinkedIn.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of a myth that employment is more secure, because I feel, as a business owner, I know how much when he's in the bank account, I know how much that, how long my business can be sustained for.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: As an employee, you are completely in the dark and actually you're at the whim of somebody else.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that control piece right?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: It's, yeah, and I think the beautiful thing about it right if you're planful and you can see ahead what's coming, then you have the opportunity.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a skill set piece there as well.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot to learn becoming a business owner, and I think some people it's never been easier, has it?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say this in my book it's never been easier to set up a business.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: No, it was never this easy before.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: But keeping your business and sustaining your business is the challenging part.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: But you do have more control of it than you do when you're an employee.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So again, it's pros and cons and you have to find what suits you best, I think.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So that's what I did when I came out, to start off with a bit of this and a bit of that.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Wow, and then you moved out.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So now you've taught me through, so you help us through who you help and what you do now in your business.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So we've been going now since 2012 and it's been an incredible journey of evolution, learning mistakes and everything in between and along that way to that earlier point of discovering self.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: The peace for me that has always been flowing through my veins is an absolute love of both development, coaching and leadership, if I think about the three elements that have lived out throughout my entire career.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: So if I look at the chapter that we're in now, within the organization, we support businesses, I guess, that are at that point of starting to think about a team and I might not have a team in place right the way through to establish businesses that have, you know, all manner of size of teams.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So it's really looking at the leader and for me, some people don't see themselves as a leader until they've got a team, but actually they're leading when they're freelancing.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: We're leading ourselves every single day.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: We're leading ourselves in employment.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So, in terms of how I help them, we help them with coaching, consultancy, facilitation and training, and really the whole intention of what I do is helping them elevate that leadership, elevate that mindset and elevate that communication, because they're the real three things that can make, in my opinion, the biggest difference to the impact they have, not only on themselves, but for those that are taking with them on the journey.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's really where we're at in terms of our passion in the business.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: How did you go from freelancing for clients to doing this?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: So where talk us through that transition?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: the change?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Where the change?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I think, in my head.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a freelancer when I started, so I thought I'd started a business, but there were a number of mistakes that I made along the way and I think the biggest paradigm shift came for me in 2014 when Charlie, my youngest, got pneumonia and I found myself by the side of his bed.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: He was really poorly and they didn't know how it was going to go, so it was horrendous for anyone that's been through anything like that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, I only had to experience it for a week and it was probably the worst week of my life.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And in amongst all of that, I found myself taking a phone call from a client and I didn't take the phone call from the client because the client insisted, and that's really important.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I say that it was all on me.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I did it because, back to your yeah, I needed to, because I, at the time, was doing some exec headhunting, so it was recruitment.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: You know as well as I know, within the recruitment industry, I had months that were super, super flash, like really, really high revenue months, and then months where they weren't and I hadn't been intentional and plan for back to your early point, and therefore I was in that month, that was like we need to get this deal over the line, and that's why I took the call.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And it was almost like a massive shift of perspective in that moment, as I'm sitting by his bedside looking at him on the phone, the last place I wanted to be was on the phone and in that moment I thought this is not what I signed up for.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't leave employment in order to have to do this.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I should have just not have to take this call.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: And it was in that moment I decided that I wasn't going to do that again.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: So I made a decision at that point, throwing myself into the network marketing.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So again, I was unintentional.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I think there's some patterns there that I've learned about myself over the years.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, right, okay, I need to address this, so I'm just going to dive in.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Network marketing seems like it must be the answer, and I dived in and there were many strands of network marketing that worked in my favor as a result of that, you know, being more in control, being able to create some consistent.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I'm a massive advocate and it's what I pride myself on building my business and for my clients who want it, that recurring revenue that covers that baseline operational costs.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: That was important for me.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: So we did the network marketing and it was at that point, as I went on that journey, that I still hang on a minute.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: There are many aspects about what I'm doing in network marketing that I'm enjoying, but it still isn't what I want to do.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And as I was going on that journey, really what I started to then decide was this is how I want the business to look and feel.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So I became much more strategic, much more intentional.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I dug deep into what is it that I am brilliant at, what is it that I love to do?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: How do I want the business to look and feel?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And it was at that point then that we decided to set it up with some clear products and services, get really, really clear on what the business model needed to look and feel like, how I wanted to work, how I was going to support, where was the money going to come from.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: So I think there was a paradigm shift that shifted me into network marketing and as I went through the network marketing journey, I learned a lot about the work that I love to do and a lot about the work that I didn't want to do.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: In a way, I didn't want to work.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: As an example, I found myself working evenings and weekends and I didn't want to work evenings and weekends and because I'd been unintentional about that, you get swamped up in it Again.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: It's almost back to those shoulds and needs.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So I think the learning I guess from that, as well as answering your question, is be very intentional.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Where you can be very intentional when you start, if you're a freelancer or whether or not you're running a business, be clear about what it is that you're building and why and it is okay to change, I guess.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Do you think more women should run businesses?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I think if that's what they want to do, then yes, I think that your point around it's okay to be a freelancer, it's okay to work.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not that person that would say you know, there are a lot of the old.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Employment is terrible.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Don't start an employment.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I think we are so fortunate now I've got friends with families who have incredible jobs within incredible companies and they are supported tremendously well.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: There are many I know that have leapt across and run businesses and love it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So, in answer to a question yes, I would love to see more women doing really impactful jobs, whether that be working for themselves, freelancing or being employed, because I think there is so much talent out there that we probably haven't leveraged enough of, and I think that when companies or businesses that are set up by the person themselves realize that, then we just we have the ability to change the world, which seems so big and very cliche, but I genuinely believe that it's possible we were going to talk about in this episode, I believe, when we set it up about becoming switching your mindset, I guess, from being a founder to a CEO.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: So talk us through how you help people you know switch that mindset.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Someone's listening to this and they founded a business and they want to take it further.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe some tips that they can use as well.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I think the greatest piece for me is that it is back to this intentionality.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: If we start something and are intentional about it, then what we need to start thinking about is even though we aren't running.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: You know, there's this whole stereotypical piece around a CEO.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: In fact, I've got involved in discussions where people like you can't be a CEO because there's only you and my pushback on anyone just to give some context to that is I don't really care what it is you call yourself like, call yourself whatever you like.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's the difference?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Actually, I suppose we should start there.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: What's the difference?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I think that when I think it's a stereotype.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've run so many training sessions where I put up the word CEO and I'm like just tell me what you think of when I say it and you can probably imagine what comes through on the chat and the conversations I had.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: You know it's definitely evolving and I think there is a stereotype of this is what a CEO does.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: But ultimately a CEO is a decision maker within a business.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: You know they may have a senior team supporting them to support those decisions, but you know whether you've got.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: You know you might have a chairman I'm not going to get into.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: You know the positions within various different organizational structures, but a CEO ultimately is the one sort of directing the ship.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: That's how I look at it and therefore what I encourage people to do is to think about their role as the director of that ship.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: So the reason why I'm encouraging people to move from being an owner of a business is I think we can get lost in the doing and we forget about the directing, the strategizing, the.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: You know where are the ideas coming from, what are we building?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: So it's back to that intentionality and also the role that you play within it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: So certainly some of the work that I do when I work with people is figuring out where do you sit within your organization, because we know whether you I mean it is very similar for freelance as well you've got 20,000 different hats to wear, and I think sometimes what happens is we fall into.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time I have delivery, we're in doing mode serving.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: That's why we set the business up, for whatever reason whether there's a passion, isn't it?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to do me the admin, or whatever you don't, and I think it's, and that's the thing it's about getting clear about.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: If you've got, let's say, there's eight different roles within all businesses that have to be done, it is making an intentional, conscious decision which of these roles do I sit within?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And also back to my earlier point and what are we building?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So are we building something that is paying you an income and literally that's all you want?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You just want to replace the income that you had when you were working.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, if that's the case, what does that need to look and feel like?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Because even within that framework, there is an opportunity for you to step away from some of the things you don't want to be doing, because there's the ability to outsource to some tremendous people, exactly to a freelancer.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: And I think the thing that people lose sight of is they feel like I have to employ someone, I've got to put them on my payroll and I can't afford them, and I'm like you could have a freelancer doing an hour a week and that hour a week could free up five of your hours to do something that you would be more income generating or more strategic, more directional with.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: So, coming back to your earlier question, the reason I talk a lot about moving from owner to leader is, I think we fall into the doing, particularly if we've come from employment, because I think we're conditioned to work that way.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: As an employee, you're hired to do a job like just.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: It might be a multifaceted role, but it's a job.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And when you are a business owner and or a freelancer, but definitely more so when you're a business owner you are wearing a multitude of hats and you might not have the skill set to do all of those.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: So we naturally gravitate to the thing that we want to do and the other bits get neglected.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And that's why we don't necessarily start to lead ourselves and then lead the business.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: And that's why I challenge anyone that says I'm not a leader.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not a leader.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Where you are, you're leading like you have to lead.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: So irrespective of whether you have a team right now, you are responsible for leading yourself.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You're responsible for leading the decisions of your business and all of those different roles that fit within it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: So that's why I feel really passionate about it, because I know, once we start to see ourselves differently, it's not about the title.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: You know, like I said, really doesn't matter these days what the hell you call yourself.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: It's really about the mindset and the behaviors and the way that you create space to do more of the strategic things, or you make a decision to bring somebody in to do that for you.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Can you give us an example of someone that started working with you and maybe wasn't leading in the right way and was drowning?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean gosh there's.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: it's probably why a lot of them come to be honest.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So there's many examples.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a really positive one because she's really fresh in my mind.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: She was an incredible leader, so she's led before in organizations.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: This is also interesting.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Just because you've been a leader in an employed capacity doesn't mean it's easy when you come out to do it for yourself.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And I was going to ask you you've never managed before.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Can you manage in a business?
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I think, again, it's just a soul searching exercise to work out.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: You know, what is it that is needed within that role.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Again, what are we building?
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Because you know, if you're building an empire, that's a very, very different role of leader than one who's maybe just doing vast majority of it by themselves and wants to bring in a freelancer.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Like it's a very, very different piece of leadership.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: There will be some overlap, but I think the one that sort of rings true is I can think just a year ago, working with somebody and they have had their fingers burned, hiring.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So what happens then?
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, you've led before an employment, you know the benefits of having people around you, but you've tried it yourself.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: It didn't work.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: So then you go I'm not hiring, I'm not hiring in anyone.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work, I'm not doing it.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: And there you are, because you are so brilliant at what you do.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Your finding clients is not an issue Like this is a beautiful thing to be, you know surrounded by, but you are starting to drown, you are starting to feel overwhelmed.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: And how do you get past that plateau?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Because you're either going to burn yourself out.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: You've got to think about I mean, there's obviously this different business models you can start looking at.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: How do I serve more people, how do I leverage my time?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: But ultimately, what we needed to do was go.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: What role do you need to have or want to have within this organization?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And what we did was we started by mapping out a five hour a week role that had scope to grow, and it was the safest way for this person to feel like she could bring somebody in, so like you'd be out here for five hours, yeah.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: So, and this is the other thing One of the things that I also encourage people to do and it'd be interesting to get your take on this is I think there is a natural tendency to lean towards a VA.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a massive.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Let me just caveat that I'm a huge fan of VA's.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I have VA clients, but you have to decide what's right for you.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I do know what you mean on that, because I hired a VA and actually I don't know if it was quite what I needed Exactly.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: And that's the first thing.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the industry is very well marketed because there's a small business and you think, well, I need one of those.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I just need a virtual assistant, yeah, and it's like, yeah, it may be virtual, but you might need somebody on the door.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So, again, everything that we do we have to do with intention.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: So I have an approach that people might look at my business and go I run my business like it's a much bigger organization than it is, like the way I've brought people in, the way I support them, the way I communicate, and I only have really two key people that work with me and neither one of them are on my payroll.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: And that's the point I started going what do I need?
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: So what we did with her is we mapped out a very specific job description.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: We were really clear about what it was that she needed.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: We didn't go down the VA route, but we did go out to market and she bought in somebody as a marketing and it kind of evolved as we went through the process and she bought in a marketing assistant and as a result of bringing in that marketing assistant, we sort of relinquished some control initially into some of the easier tasks to let go, but gradually this person has become embedded with it and now has moved from five hours to 30 an hour, looking at whether we take them on as a full-time member of staff and just what the pros and cons of that are, and also has hired in somebody else.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: So once she sort of started the process going, now that sounds like it's been really smooth and I'd be lying if I said it was.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: There's been teasing problems along there, there's been questions and doubts and all of the other bits that go in between and fear, because the other thing is if you perhaps lose a client that you didn't anticipate you were going to lose, you're worried.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I need to reduce the hours.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Hang on a minute.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Let's look at this strategically.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So I would say that's probably a great example.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Now the benefits of the situation doing the work that she loves way more than she was, the business is growing exponentially.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: She is able to get these individuals that she has within her team doing work for herself, so building her own business but also building the clients and she has.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: So I can come on to the personal contract.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: She has a clear personal contract of how she works in the business.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So she works part-time and she gets time off.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So she has time off but the business carries on in her absence and that's just for two members of staff Do you know what I mean.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I heard someone recently another recruiter and that is really what my business needed, but it took me two years to get to think, to figure that out really.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I think it does and people are terrified.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's brilliant, and I actually managed to go on holiday and really switch off because I knew that there was somebody else that could replicate my role.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: It's so important.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: When I started, I hired, so the lady I have with me.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: She's been with me now eight or nine years, I think, and at the time I literally wanted someone.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I think I would have said it probably would have been less than five hours a week.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I just wanted someone to help me with my admin.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: So I did the same.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't know any different.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I think this was the thing.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: No, I think you'd go oh, you need a BA Right now.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: It's like I'm just going to put a job spec.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: This is what I would have done if I was hiring.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'd have put a job spec together, a person spec, and just gone out to market wherever those people are, and that's.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I think we do overcomplicate it and it becomes.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: We attach so many layers of fear top of it, and I've repeated this process with so many of my clients and they've got some.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Honestly, we've hired some super talented people and I just I think we're in a really exciting time because people are so much more flexible.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, would we have been able to do this a few years ago?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe not, I don't know.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Does it matter?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: No, because right now there's some super talented people out there, as you well know, more than anyone yeah?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: looking for flexible, looking for flexible work and they don't.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: They're not part of an agency per se, so they're not a VA, but they're sitting there and if you look in the right places then you may well find them.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: And that's exactly what my clients are doing.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: They're doing it a bit differently and they're finding some gems honestly, some real gems and it's making such a difference to the business.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: But we're onboarding them right, we're supporting them right, we're communicating.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: You would never know that they're not part of their payroll in terms of the way that they treat them, and I think that's really important, brilliant.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: It sounds fantastic.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So where can people you know find if they've got small business or if they're thinking?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Do you help people that are thinking about running a business for the first time, or is it some?
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Is it better for somebody?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Probably less so now I think I did used to.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, my book, foundations to Lead From, is a really great in fact.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I've had some such amazing feedback recently and it really warms my heart, because you can't touch everybody.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Not everybody has, you know, the time or the money to invest in support Like I totally get that and that's why I wrote the book.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: And the book contains every mistake that I've made and probably continue to make as I go through my journey.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I was put on this earth to screw it up so that I could teach other people not to do that.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: So the book really just shares very candidly and I would say, if you're looking at starting a business, just get your hands on Foundations to Lead From, because I promise you it's really comprehensive and it will help you start to think like I wish I had when I started my journey.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: So, no, I don't.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Generally, and I think because of the nature of my products and services, there probably isn't something there for people to get support.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: But I would say you know, connect up with me because you're probably going to pick up some nuggets along the way.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Jump on my email list.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: But if people are at a point, I would say where they're.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You know, they may still be working by themselves, or they may have taken somebody on or even further along the lines and they've got, you know, a huge, great big team, but they just feel like something needs to change in their leadership.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I'd absolutely love to hear from them and they can find me.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I'm on most socials Instagram, linkedin.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Facebook, and is it service, business, product, is it any type of business?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I think service my sweet spot is service based, but saying that I'm working with an amazing e-commerce business right now, she blows my mind of how brilliant she is and her business is going levels that I can't even comprehend.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Honestly, she's so talented.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: So she, you know, she found me.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: So occasionally we get, you know, some product based businesses that come up, but I would say, if I look across my client base, predominantly their service base.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: But I love what I will say and I think people quite like this is I serve both on and off line businesses as well.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: So you know physical bricks and mortar businesses as well as those in the online space, and I actually think people quite like that diversity.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: And probably that plays out because of my love of hospitality and retail, you know from my previous life, so that's probably where that comes from.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's brilliant.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: It's been so good to chat with you.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I can see how passionate you are.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I can see you sort of get energy from speaking to clients Very animated Looks like you have such a you know, a real passion for what you do, so it's so nice to learn more about that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your time today, lee.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: We'll put all the links in the show notes.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mon podcast.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: If you're unlinked in, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site, investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your big dreams.