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The Fantastic Miss Piggy Podcast - Episode 10: Calista Hendrickson Interview · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

0:00
When we're talking about who created Miss Piggy and developed
0:03
her into the superstar that she became, obviously the first name
0:06
on that list is Frank Oz. But there are other people who
0:08
also deserve credit for this bizarre practical joke that The
0:11
Muppets played on the world in the 1970s.
0:14
There's Bonnie Erickson, who created the puppet.
0:16
There's Jerry Jewell as the head writer Michael Frith, who
0:18
developed Piggy's persona in print.
0:20
And then there's Calista Hendrickson, Miss Piggy's
0:22
costume designer. Starting with the second season
0:24
of The Muppet Show, Melissa's responsible for getting Piggy
0:27
out of that Gray satin dress and into an astonishing range of
0:30
outfits that she wore on the show, as well as the 1st 3
0:33
movies, the Miss Piggy calendars, Miss Piggy's Guide to
0:35
Life, and an endless series of photo shoots for licensed
0:38
merchandise. During The Muppet Show years,
0:40
Calista did some interviews for newspapers, including The New
0:43
York Times. Where to step back for a second.
0:46
They printed breathless, adoring interviews praising the woman
0:49
who designs clothes for this Make Believe pig puppet.
0:52
And the thing that really stands out in those interviews is that
0:55
Calista Hendrickson had a vision for Miss Piggy that complemented
0:58
what Frank Oz and Jerry Jewell and Michael Frith were doing,
1:01
but added her own unique and distinct take on who Miss Piggy
1:04
is as a character. I'm just going to give you a
1:06
couple quotes from the New York Times.
1:08
Miss Piggy's not aware of the fact that she's overweight.
1:10
She dresses as if she's 30 lbs lighter, and here's another one
1:13
from the Philadelphia Inquirer. I see her as someone who spends
1:16
a lot of time in front of the mirror, always adding a few too
1:19
many accessories, but no matter how silly it is, she always
1:21
manages to be alluring at the same time.
1:24
So Calista had a real idea of who Miss Piggy was and how she
1:27
felt about herself, and her costume designs really brought
1:30
the pig to life. And today on the show, we're
1:33
going to hear all about it. I can't give you anything but
1:38
love. Baby.
1:42
That's the only thing I have plenty of, baby.
1:50
Kissy kissy and welcome to another episode of the fantastic
1:53
Miss Piggy podcast. I'm Danny Horn and this podcast
1:56
chronicles my journey to learn everything there is to know
1:58
about that divine swine, the incomparable Miss Piggy.
2:01
It's a special day today and I have a special Co host for this
2:04
episode. Returning to the show,
2:05
filmmaker, designer, illustrator, and bon vivant
2:08
Peter Savieri. Kissy kissy Peter.
2:10
Hello, Demi. How are you doing?
2:12
Welcome back. I'm good.
2:14
Welcome. Welcome myself back.
2:18
And and of course, our guest today, the one and only, Calista
2:21
Hendrickson. Kissy, kissy, Calista.
2:24
Hi, Kissy Kissy. Welcome to the show.
2:28
Well, here I am. I'm delighted to be here.
2:30
It's one of the favorite times of my life, so I like to look
2:35
back on it and remember those days.
2:38
I was, as I was saying earlier, I I always think I was in the
2:41
right place at the right time and just fell into this job in a
2:45
way that I hadn't planned. I hadn't even planned to have a
2:47
career. I was about, I had two young
2:50
children at home. I was gonna be a full time mom.
2:52
And then this this show came along, which was good to be
2:56
true. You know that Bonnie Erickson
2:59
and I had been working together in various Off Broadway costume
3:04
shops and each other over several years.
3:08
I I she had, she had a son. I had two sons.
3:12
And we compared notes about how to juggle motherhood and career.
3:18
What? Were you doing and and how how
3:21
you got started with The Muppets?
3:22
Well, I'd been. I'd been called in, called upon
3:26
to help them finish up the first season of the Muppet Show that
3:29
was that was in a crunch time. And so I came in and worked a
3:34
week or so and they shipped it out.
3:37
And then in the fall when they were back, I guess I came in to
3:46
to do some other stuff for Sesame Street.
3:48
They'd call on me just because I was a costume person and could
3:51
whip something up quickly. Then I heard that they were
3:54
doing this show, the Emma Daughters jug band Christmas,
3:58
which was a very ambitious show that Jim had decided to take on
4:02
that involved the puppets rowing a rowboat down a river.
4:06
And it was the first time they used remote control mitts that
4:12
Boss Rizales had made for them. That's when they first tried
4:16
them out. So what was unusual about Emma
4:21
daughter? It came from a children's book
4:23
and the characters were all more like Beatrix Potter, little
4:29
dressed up woodland cultures. And they were full body puppets.
4:33
They were not just to the hips. So that was a very exciting
4:39
possibility, That job and I I grabbed it.
4:43
I thought, oh, this is perfect. And they knew you just because
4:46
you knew Bonnie Erickson. Well, because we because I had
4:50
come in and done some costume work in the shop on and off for
4:55
a couple of years. The first job I did, actually, I
4:57
had a shop set up at home and they sent me Big Bird's legs and
5:04
I sewed the trim on and my kids were quite intrigued with that.
5:09
But, you know, on and off there'd be jobs.
5:11
When Bonnie was in a pension, she'd call on me.
5:13
So then Bonnie was going off to start her own business and she
5:19
dropped out and I could step right in and say I'll do it, I'd
5:22
be happy to do it. That sounds like a great job.
5:24
And we we quit. And Don Celine was still there
5:29
at The Muppets. John Celine and Kermit love and
5:33
some of the old timers that I got to learn more about puppetry
5:38
through them. Faz Fazakis who I remember my my
5:44
sessions with him with his mocked up rowboat and putting
5:49
the Emma daughter puppet on it and seeing if the if he could
5:53
really you know row the oars and that they wanted to be sure the
5:56
costume didn't limit his his movement in any way.
6:00
And I I just kind of got hooked on these people that were such
6:04
beautiful Craftsman. It was at the New York workshop
6:07
that was on East 67th St. which then the top floor of that
6:11
building became in the photo studio that I worked a few years
6:15
later. So Emmett Autor was it was a
6:18
whirlwind as they always were. The jobs went you know just
6:22
happened really quickly. We wouldn't have a whole lot of
6:25
time, but you know, we were maybe 2/3 of the way through.
6:29
And then somebody said what about the shoes?
6:32
And somebody and I start molding little latex shoes to go up, you
6:38
know, lace up boots and things made of latex.
6:43
But there was a lot of craft technology that was really
6:46
appealing. One of the things that really
6:51
won me over about working in the workshop where they're building
6:55
the puppet and then dressing them was I could, I could talk
6:59
with the puppet, with the puppet builders about the body shapes.
7:03
So that, you know, there's a a character, Gretchen Fox, who has
7:09
a green satin dress and she's very haughty Victorian.
7:13
And so I could explain to Mari who was building it.
7:16
You know, if you, if you do this powder pigeon corseted look of a
7:21
Victorian lady, then it's gonna be the perfect shape for the
7:25
dress. And that collaboration was just,
7:30
you know, overwhelming to me because.
7:33
Yeah, and a rare, rare example of tailor making the model to
7:37
the outfit. Or or I could make a request
7:42
for, you know, really long arms. Or I don't know, I I just
7:46
developing characters. There was there was that
7:49
possibility that was you know all to me that was great.
7:54
And as I said the other day with the having fittings makes it so
7:57
much easier when they're all just on a rack right next to
8:00
your table. Put it putting it on my table
8:04
and pinning it in place and sticking pins wherever I want to
8:07
stick the pins in nobody's. So there were those kind of
8:13
satisfactions working with puppets and and shame had always
8:17
specified, you know, as far as the costuming for the puppets,
8:21
it needs to be lightweight, fluid, bright color.
8:27
Second, movement was always a big consideration as well that
8:30
that sense of movement after the puppeteers stopped moving the
8:33
character, that things can still flow and wobble and give them
8:37
movement. Right.
8:37
And it and it helps bring the puppet to life, you know?
8:41
Yeah. So I just I try to keep to that
8:43
pretty much. So Bonnie left at the end of the
8:47
first season of Up A Show and and you came in.
8:50
Did you go to London at that point?
8:53
No, I I worked on Emmett Otter and in New York and then we flew
8:58
to Toronto to shoot it and I had a my one son was I think just
9:07
about a year old at the time. So, I mean I always had an
9:10
agreement with Jim about my family and he was, he was
9:13
wonderful about it. I always, I like to mention that
9:16
because I think I was the only one in the workshop who had
9:19
children for John Lovelady who had some older kids and he had a
9:24
wife at home and would be the you know, parent.
9:28
But so when I did start traveling for The Muppets and
9:32
going over to London, our agreement was I'd go for not
9:37
longer than two weeks and then be back in New York for a while
9:40
and then go back for another two weeks.
9:43
But that was fine with him and he understood that.
9:46
So let me get back to Emma, daughter.
9:48
So we shot it there. We came home and then I and I
9:54
was called in to have an interview with Jim, who was who
9:57
was editing Emma daughter at the time.
10:00
I remember being looking up at this big screen while he's doing
10:03
stuff and he says to me, OK, Calista, what do you wanna do
10:06
with The Muppets? So that was my entree to say,
10:11
well, I I wanna dress them. I wanna do their clothes.
10:15
I want they're gonna need to change their clothes.
10:17
It's a it's a variety show we're gonna need, you know?
10:20
Yes, variety. Basically, yeah.
10:22
So I talked. I talked him into it, I think,
10:25
and he took, he said yes, but you'll, you'll make puppets too.
10:29
And I said, OK, I'll make puppets too.
10:31
I did it. I did a few.
10:33
The little babies were mine. That Bobby Benson's.
10:39
Well they turned out you know they turned out to just to be
10:42
kind of snarly babies. I I did.
10:46
I did these drawings of little newborns with their facial you
10:50
know how they changed their face for 30 seconds and and I thought
10:54
oh soft phone and I was thinking of these sweet little puppets
11:00
and the and then I I given putting them in the hands of
11:03
Richard Hunt and and Sherry Nelson and all they just all got
11:08
to be really. It's so interesting hearing the
11:13
the, the, the sort of projected idea of the way that they could
11:18
have looked or should have looked or how you imagined them,
11:20
and then having them reinterpreted in this way that
11:23
we've all just received as the intention.
11:27
Hilarious. But you know that that's part of
11:30
the magic of puppetry is you know that you you create this,
11:37
this idea of a person, but it's not really a person until the
11:40
puppeteer puts it on their hand and starts bouncing around with
11:44
it. And that was a great thing in
11:45
the workshop, 'cause we had mirrors on walls where the
11:48
puppeteer could just put it on and start always working with a
11:51
mirror to see how how the mouth worked and to see, you know,
11:57
what they what they could come up with.
12:00
So it was a very wonderfully impromptu art form, I think,
12:06
yeah. So I I agree then.
12:08
And I would work on The Muppet Show and I would be the costume
12:10
designer. So that meant really within a
12:14
couple of weeks packing up, moving to London and leaving my
12:19
kids behind for a couple of weeks, they came over then to
12:23
spend the summer there with me. But that the the workshop that
12:28
was adjacent to the studio. I think it was a good size
12:32
space, but it hadn't really been equipped yet.
12:36
I mean there was one rack for puppets and a few tables and you
12:39
know, Bonnie will talk about the first season and how they, you
12:43
know, slowly were putting together the shop.
12:45
But I think in the second season we made specific requests about
12:50
more puppet bodies from the workshop and more and not to
12:56
have to take things apart the minute they come off, you know,
13:00
it was just didn't have enough raw material to work with.
13:03
You know, they put together characters for at the dance and
13:08
they're they're already hired working on another number just
13:14
the way we needed more bodies to get going.
13:19
And they totally, I remember writing a memo to Dave Laser.
13:23
He by the way was a wonderful, wonderful man.
13:25
Very great producer. I mean, he's still around, I
13:29
think, but I I I he made everything possible.
13:32
I have to say, I never had a budget.
13:36
Nobody ever said to me, you know, you can't spend more than
13:39
this. If I needed Boas, I got Boas.
13:42
If I needed whatever. You know so.
13:45
Heaven created Utopia. Yeah, exactly.
13:49
I mean I I nobody ever said to me I was spending too much
13:51
money. I don't think I was spending
13:53
that much money but it but it was just a freedom to think need
13:57
it you got it. So that was that made a
14:02
difference. Plus we were doing because we
14:06
were doing more costume changes. I think that number I referred
14:09
to when we talked Danny Quanta Lagusta that that Carmen Miranda
14:16
number from the 40s, well, that was, that's what I recall as
14:22
being the first, I think in gym afterwards when they came off
14:25
the set, he said something. That's our first musical number
14:28
or something, my production number.
14:31
That was your first kind of your first time really, like, getting
14:34
Piggy out of that Gray dress and making something really special
14:38
for her. I think she'd had a couple of
14:41
changes by then. We were kind of feeling our way
14:43
with how she should dress and you know.
14:47
That's a silver dress, Danny. Not a Gray dress.
14:50
Silver dress. Her character was in the process
14:53
of developing. Somehow the costumes came along
14:57
with the growth of her diva hood, as we say.
15:03
You know, I what I remember about developing her style was
15:07
that we started out really thinking of her with more humor,
15:13
like in her clothes. You know, I think for me it came
15:17
from an article I read in Woman's Wear Daily, that
15:20
wonderful. They had a wonderful fashion
15:22
journalist at the time, Chauncey Howell, and he was kind of a
15:25
fashion review of Trisha Nixon's wedding at the White House.
15:29
You're too young to remember that.
15:30
But he referred to Martha Mitchell as wearing her very own
15:36
version of Scarlett O'Hara. So I began to think of Miss
15:41
Piggy and and her fantasy life and how she would do her very
15:46
own version of whatever it is she was looking for that day,
15:51
you know. So that's a phrase I kept in my
15:53
mind. I think we were doing that a lot
15:55
more with Miss Piggy's Guide to Life.
15:58
If you look at those, it was wackier.
16:00
She had too many accessories or she would just like throw, you
16:03
know, too much is not enough. You know when the fashion world
16:07
was saying less is more, we were she was saying, you know, you
16:12
could just hold it on. So I think we were just always
16:16
going against fashion trends and making fun of the fashion world.
16:20
And that is the her very own version is her thinking.
16:24
She's plusing it up and making it, improving it and getting it
16:28
right. Yes, exactly.
16:30
Doing her own version, making it much better because of.
16:34
Yes. When when you started kind of
16:38
costuming Miss Piggy, like Frank Oz I think had sort of opinions
16:41
about how she should look and kind of what the costumes.
16:44
Are when I when I said to Jim, you know we we need to get Miss
16:49
Piggy out of that grey dress and you know have a have a wardrobe
16:53
and he said, well you're gonna have to talk to Jim about that.
16:57
I mean, you know, Frank about that, Frank, you know, being a
17:00
traditional puppeteer, puppeteers, you know, puppets
17:04
wore the same outfit all the time.
17:08
I think the idea was, you know, oh, they wouldn't know who she
17:11
was if she didn't have that dress on.
17:13
But it, you know, it wasn't a very distinctive dress.
17:16
And I think as soon as, you know, I told Frank that she was
17:20
a actress backstage, she'd have to have a, a, a bathrobe, a some
17:25
a robe to, you know, between costumes.
17:29
I did a very fluffy marabou trim thing that he could flounce
17:36
around with. He had a great time with it and
17:38
that, you know, after that I didn't have any problem.
17:40
Frank loved the costumes and he he he would always say in
17:44
interviews that all her clothes came from the House of Callista.
17:47
I love. It.
17:50
So I I used that later in life when I had a little a business.
17:54
Oh, did you actually use that? Seriously.
17:56
Oh, that's so. Funny, I did I I thought I'd try
17:59
it out. But anyway, I remember thinking
18:02
at the time, oh, that's a good name for us.
18:06
Does so does that mean that Miss Piggy getting those negotiations
18:10
to get Miss Piggy into into a greater variety of costumes LED?
18:15
That sounds like it kind of opened a door to more costuming
18:18
for for the other characters too.
18:20
Less than Miss Piggy, but still. Yeah, whatever was needed.
18:25
I mean, you know, I remember, you know Link hog throb the the
18:30
Little pig on Pigs in Space and yes I did design those costumes
18:34
Dan. Oh.
18:35
You did the fix in space costumes.
18:37
That's great. Well, that was, I think they
18:39
just were, Weren't they starting that the second season?
18:43
I don't think the first season. Pigs in Space.
18:47
My kids loved that one. But you know Link, who was, you
18:53
know, such a male sort of dopey protagonist when I I maybe he
19:00
needed to have a a powder blue leisure suit.
19:03
I don't know if you remember leisure white belt white shoes
19:08
like very Southern and and everybody seemed to think that
19:13
was perfect for him. I think I just started thinking
19:17
of it as as you do when you're doing a soap opera.
19:20
You know you you have a all the characters have a wardrobe,
19:23
literally a closet where their clothes are kept, and as as
19:28
things come up and they need an outfit for a particular
19:31
occasion, you build it and put it in the closet.
19:33
So eventually Piggy of course had quite a closet to come and
19:38
see. See her closet and very often
19:42
what people wanted to see what were her shoes and her actual
19:47
the Miss Piggy Shoe originally was was molded by Wendy.
19:54
Wendy Meister, was that her name?
19:56
She Wendy, who married Brian Froud.
20:00
Who were they were working on Dark Crystal on another floor of
20:03
the building and we asked her to just do a shape that would be a
20:07
little piggyish, a little cloven hoofish, you know, did this
20:11
little fat shoe with a fat heel and it was always sort of the
20:16
significant piggyfoot. We love the shoes.
20:20
We actually had a a bit of a discussion about the I can't
20:23
remember if it was on the the podcast or just privately about
20:28
the about the shape of the shoes and how sometimes over the years
20:32
she's been sort of put in much less piggy looking shoes.
20:36
Maybe maybe just they've been in a rush or something, or
20:39
whatever's happened and it just doesn't feel the same when she
20:42
doesn't have those sort of chubby rounded.
20:46
I think, I think really what happened as the as she became so
20:50
popular with the in the fashion world and everybody wanted to
20:54
dress Miss Piggy or do a particular type of shoot for
20:57
Miss Piggy and and there were different people in charge.
21:00
I don't really know, 'cause after I left I was there maybe
21:04
10 years at most. And then, you know, they it was
21:08
whoever was there to meet the demand and to get the costume
21:12
out there. And I I don't know how much
21:15
thought was going into it or how much it was just driven by
21:19
whatever the fashion was at the time.
21:21
I think some of the changes in her body had to do with just
21:25
trying to make the dresses work, you know, in some way with I I
21:30
don't even know. I I that's that's something you
21:32
really need to talk with some of the other people about with how
21:36
they managed. I mean I think, I think there
21:38
was in in our research we found there was a bit of a an effort
21:43
to quote UN quote modernize her in the mid 90s.
21:47
I don't know how many fans are happy with that.
21:51
I feel like the the fans that grew up very young.
21:54
I tend to like to hold on to the classics.
21:57
I mean, I I don't think I would have changed her purple gloves.
22:00
So I mean, that was obviously for some shoot where they wanted
22:02
to match the gloves to the dress or whatever.
22:04
And I can understand that those kind of pressures but.
22:08
Well, I think just that those gloves, I think you were the one
22:12
she, she had kind of silver gloves in the first season and
22:15
then turned to lavender. I think you put her in the
22:17
lavender gloves. Yeah.
22:18
Then that's sort of then was something that did dictate a lot
22:22
of other color choices with her. But I don't know.
22:26
I love there's something about remember.
22:30
Do you remember there used to be an ad campaign by some mink coat
22:36
company? Whatever becomes a legend most
22:38
to ads Tallulah bank head and people like that, you know.
22:44
And I always thought Miss Piggy should have done one of those,
22:47
you know, with her purple gloves and her Pearl.
22:54
So when you got a brief, for example, you saw a script that
22:58
that had a performance for Miss Piggy that was themed to a
23:01
certain film or same theme to a song, you would have pretty much
23:06
cart blanched. How you would interpret that?
23:09
Thing. Yeah.
23:10
And I would, I would do the research basically.
23:13
I mean, I think there was a lot of photo research on it and most
23:17
of the piggy stuff that I did, either historic Hollywood looks
23:21
or, you know, particular old films or actors And you know,
23:25
all those Hollywood glamour photographers, especially when
23:30
we were doing the Miss Piggy calendar, we were Michael Frith.
23:34
And I would just be going through those books, loving the
23:37
poses, loving the looks and then thinking, how can we do that
23:41
with the pig, you know? And the one thing about Miss
23:44
Piggy was her, the texture of her skin because a lot of the
23:49
light that's that is used in those glamour photos has a, you
23:54
know, a human skin that's reflective that makes it glow
24:00
And that was was always a frustration for Michael.
24:04
So absorbed the light, she didn't reflect the light.
24:07
You know her skin is not reflective but that's just a a
24:11
minor. You know I want you to know I
24:14
I'm skipping around a lot but I want you to know that doing the
24:17
big photo shoots for that like Miss Piggy calendar.
24:21
Yeah took days it was you know getting everything in place and
24:25
then tweaking and then with each this was film we were shooting
24:31
film. It was not digital photography.
24:34
So we would take Polaroid after Polaroid after Polaroid and look
24:41
at you know. To figure out like are are these
24:46
little details actually working? Tiny details trying.
24:49
Oh my. Gosh, it was so painstaking.
24:53
I want the Polaroids. Yeah, I wonder what happened to
24:57
most of them. Gone.
24:58
I don't, I don't know. But.
24:59
But those would give us our direction and and proportions
25:05
and move things around and just get the composition what we want
25:08
it to be. And they were.
25:11
They were really elaborate production.
25:14
It really shows they're they're exquisite images.
25:19
I look at them often just to get a dose of serotonin.
25:24
Oh, you know, it's my dream that someday they'll be at the Museum
25:27
of the Moving Image, a nice big show of all those pictures,
25:31
'cause they're the I wish a whole new generation could see
25:34
them. And he.
25:36
Was such a class act though, those piggy calendars.
25:38
The the editor was Robert Gottlieb famous you know editor
25:43
who's done every famous writer there is he he loved Miss Piggy
25:49
and Jane Leventhal who came to Muppets to develop the whole The
25:57
book editor you know all the books that we're doing she was
26:01
in charge of that and she introduced us to Bob Gottlieb
26:04
and and he just really enjoyed it and he it was it was great
26:09
and she he she gets a mention in his obituary he died this fall
26:14
oh and so as a client along with you know all the other famous
26:21
writers and people. That's the that marvelous thing
26:25
of of the satire of of this kind of Hollywood goddess, deluded
26:31
Hollywood goddess pig. Suddenly she becomes that like
26:34
she actually is attracting that level of, you know,
26:37
entrepreneur. So it was so fascinating about
26:41
it with all these different magazines and people wanting,
26:45
well at at one point, you know, you were talking about her body
26:49
and and the changes they wanted to make.
26:52
But at at one point there were a whole group of Hollywood costume
26:56
designers that wanted to design something for Miss Piggy and it
27:00
was kind of a publicity thing. But we had to explain, you know,
27:05
you, you know that her body wasn't like, it's not, it's not
27:09
a, you know, leggy supermodel here.
27:14
Yeah. That I I I don't know.
27:17
I mean, I always kind of discouraged it and said no.
27:19
All her clothes came from the House of Philistophant.
27:23
Well I think I saw at one point I saw they were they were
27:26
quoting her her measurements that I think were something like
27:29
273032. Well you know they would I I
27:37
think they all had done some sketches for some LA you know
27:41
Sunday magazine or something of their ideas of clothes from his
27:45
piggy and and it was just you know a mod of the usual fashion
27:50
sketch with a pig head top. See, we're so we're so we've
27:58
gotten to just the second season of The Muppet Show.
28:03
Then we came home and started work immediately on The Muppet
28:07
Movie, and that summer was spent in LA shooting The Muppet Movie.
28:13
I mean, really, when I say lickety split, we were, we never
28:17
had breaks. It was just one to one.
28:20
And that's the way Jim worked. He loved, he loved his worked,
28:23
he loved his life, and he just was always working.
28:26
And he expected everybody else to have that same schedule.
28:31
Well, so the Muppet Show, I know you, you earlier had told me
28:33
just about like the weekly pace of of building that.
28:37
Can you talk about that a little?
28:39
Bit it would start with the table read with everybody
28:42
sitting around the table with the script, all the characters
28:46
do it, all the puppeteers there to do their various different
28:49
voices and and the guest star of course that's when we all met
28:54
the guest star for the first time.
28:56
And it was always kind of an uproarious kind of event of just
29:01
it was great fun to like hear the first read through and then
29:04
some. There were always a few scripts
29:07
script changes and that usually driven by the guest star that
29:11
wanted something different or another numbered added or
29:15
whatever it was anyway. So it would move from that
29:18
Sunday to Monday. Tuesday I think were build days.
29:24
Those were the days that we had in the workshop to throw stuff
29:27
together and we would know in advance with scripts what what
29:32
were some of the scripts that were coming up, what were the
29:35
ideas that were coming up. So it wasn't totally by the seat
29:39
of your pants, but it it always was.
29:41
There were a lot of last minute changes but and then I believe
29:46
they shot. Amy would be the one to talk to
29:48
about this Wednesday, Thursday, Friday were shoot days and we
29:52
would be continuing to work on a schedule knowing when the number
29:56
was coming up. I'd still be working through
29:58
those days to get things finished or maybe starting to
30:01
prep the next show coming up, but there was always a lot to
30:05
do. When did it feel like Miss Piggy
30:10
really specifically was taking off in a way that was that was
30:13
bigger than just The Muppets? Yeah, I think this is, this is a
30:17
question you could ask anybody who was there at the time like
30:20
when do you think she really just took off and it had all to
30:24
do with the publicity. But you know, I did.
30:30
I would be sent out on these interviews for television, you
30:33
know with the Charles Kuralt Morley Safer.
30:37
I was on the at the time of Muppet Steak Manhattan near the
30:43
opening of Muppet Steak Manhattan.
30:44
I did an interview on the Good Morning America introduced as
30:50
the woman with the best job in the world.
30:55
So how about that? She was definitely, you know, be
30:59
had had become a media personality.
31:01
She was on the cover of of People magazine.
31:04
Life magazine was that did a whole spread about the that was
31:10
the first time, in fact, Nancy Miranda, the photos for that.
31:13
It was the first time they allowed photographers into the
31:16
workshop and let them a whole drawer of eyes.
31:21
Yeah. And because of that, Jim for a
31:24
long time did not want to see puppets in pieces clouded for
31:29
that particular introduction to the world of The Muppets.
31:34
Yeah. Was that was that Life magazine
31:38
article, Does that predate The Muppets of Muppets and Men book?
31:43
And it does. I think it would have been an
31:47
election year because she was running for president.
31:51
Yes, the cover it was it's I I know that, I know that issue
31:55
very well, August 1980. OK.
31:58
I I had that. I treasured that.
32:01
Yeah. It had like piggy president
32:03
covers. There are pictures of me and
32:05
Michael's office and we're, you know, kind of doing what we did.
32:10
Michael would just be drawing the whole time and I would be
32:12
talking and we'd come up with ideas.
32:14
It was just a a wonderful experience.
32:18
And. He contributed a lot.
32:21
I I feel Michael's kind of he's moved to Bermuda and we don't
32:25
hear from him that much. But he was he was a person that
32:28
was very much directing the Miss Piggy fantasy that that we did.
32:35
I mean in the in the press, in the books, in the, in the
32:40
photographs. So he would be.
32:43
He would be doing sketches. The final picture of each each
32:48
Miss Piggy calendar would would have been taken from a sketch of
32:52
Michael's that we'd we'd talked about, we'd worked on, we'd, you
32:56
know, sort of tweaked the ideas, and he'd finally do a kind of
33:01
complete sketch that we could follow.
33:04
And he was very much in the studio all the time, too.
33:06
He loved. He loved doing it.
33:09
And his his taste was always so, or at least his.
33:12
The way he applied it to Miss Piggy was always so in line with
33:15
that Golden Age Hollywood pin up Kind of Yeah, love it.
33:21
A favorite story I you know, we were we were on the east side of
33:25
New York and we were talking about doing Miss Piggy.
33:29
It was one maybe for one, was it a calendar shot or was it the
33:34
art of The Muppets? I think it was a calendar shot
33:36
where she's a girl on the swing in the 18th century.
33:40
It was taken from a Fragonard painting that's hanging Trick
33:44
Museum. And Michael and I walked over to
33:47
look at it at lunch. That was really, you know,
33:52
that's the joy of being in New York.
33:55
It's been you know I've I've read a lot in the press where
33:57
where people say like this was your, that designing
33:59
specifically for Miss Piggy was a full time job.
34:02
Well, it came my full time job because there was so much, there
34:05
was so much, so much demand for her on small appearances, you
34:10
know would be like overnight you'd need to whip up something
34:13
for an appearance on some show she was doing or or that you
34:18
know, I guess the the, the products also.
34:21
I mean, I was on the licensing committee and we would meet, you
34:25
know, at least once or twice a week maybe with different
34:29
different licensees that would come in who wanted to show us
34:33
the direction of what they were doing and we'd either correct it
34:37
or love it or ask them to start over again, whatever.
34:41
But there were so many companies that were licensed to do Muppet
34:46
products that they they opened a store in New York, Muppet stuff.
34:49
They had a retail store for a few years, this product.
34:55
I know that Hallmark just did an unbelievable amount.
35:00
Of of. Piggy material.
35:02
Yes. And I'm remembering now that
35:04
sometimes there would be requests for particular looks,
35:09
but we would control it from New York in terms of, you know,
35:12
sending out costumes for that shoot.
35:16
Need to talk with some of those. The art directors in the art
35:20
department 'cause they would go out and do the shoots.
35:22
I never did shoots at at Hallmark, but you know.
35:28
Sometimes those would be those would be Hallmark people who who
35:31
went and supervised the sheets. No people from the Muppet Art
35:35
Department. Oh, I see a.
35:36
Lot of a lot of different artists that work within the art
35:39
department did the artwork for any kind of drawings that were
35:44
needed for the licensed products.
35:46
Oh, I see. There was a whole manual that
35:49
they were given to companies we were working with about how to
35:55
draw The Muppets and, you know, very specific.
35:58
The style guide. Yeah, style guide exactly.
36:01
Yeah. Was was there any, just as a
36:05
just a quick aside, were there any products that you remember
36:09
being pitched to you that were just really wrong?
36:13
Did anything stick in your mind? Oh yes.
36:15
And we all we were. We were very frank about it.
36:18
The first Peggy doll that came in from Fisher Price.
36:23
This giant head. This.
36:26
This big pig head with very, you know, it wasn't realistic at
36:29
all. And we sent them back to the
36:32
drawing board and said, no, that's we don't want this big
36:34
molded head. We want to have a doll you could
36:37
play with with clothes. I just, I designed little simple
36:42
dresses that were easy to take on and off and you could have
36:45
some play value to. That's what they call it in the
36:49
business. Yeah.
36:52
Oh, that's. I mean, so you so you made like
36:54
those Fisher Price dress up dolls.
36:56
You actually designed those clothes?
36:58
Yeah, and there were. You could buy clothes for her.
37:00
There was the purple dress, of course, and there was.
37:03
I forgot she had a little jacket, maybe and.
37:05
Think there's a sailor suit? A turban as well.
37:09
Yeah. I don't.
37:11
No, I don't remember. So can I ask?
37:15
Yes, just the licensed products because this is a thing that I
37:18
love very much that you I'm, I'm so happy to learn such a nerd,
37:24
but I'm so happy to learn that you designed the dress up dolls,
37:26
because I really love those dolls.
37:27
These two did you design other other products?
37:33
Well, the the shoes. I did the Miss Piggy's Shoe for
37:37
kids. We had a licensed with Kent, so
37:40
I think maybe there were other character, maybe a scooter,
37:43
scooter design or maybe. There was a Kermit, and there
37:46
was a fuzzy. Yeah, so I just like the Miss
37:49
Piggy sneaker that had a had a soul with hearts on it, so that
37:54
when you left the footprint behind on the running track,
37:58
you'd see little hearts. And and so I guess I could, you
38:03
could probably tell that you designed those 'cause I think
38:05
there was like pink satin on it. Yeah, I think it was.
38:08
The lavender, yeah. It was not.
38:11
It was not a serious shoe. But you could wear the you know
38:15
there were cats. Cats are good.
38:18
I had some other ideas but then we didn't.
38:20
We didn't pursue those anyway. And that was that was a fun
38:23
product to work on. I'm trying to think of what
38:27
else. So oh, we had sheets.
38:29
There were bed sheets. Two different eras that that.
38:32
I still have the Miss Piggy Comforter in my storage unit.
38:35
Oh my God. I love that.
38:39
There were several different designs actually over the years.
38:42
One started out that was too dark and nobody liked it, and
38:45
then the others were a little. They were.
38:48
They were very Art Deco. Yeah, those first ones were a
38:53
lot. I've donated a lot of stuff to
38:55
the museum and the moving image, my books and things.
39:00
Well, you know, one story I'd love to tell.
39:03
It's not really about Miss Piggy so much, but it was about the
39:06
way Jim, the way the comments managed.
39:09
When I was there, there was a yearly kind of company meeting
39:12
they would have and it would be a Tavern on the green in Central
39:15
Park and we would talk, Questions would be answered
39:19
about, you know, suggestions for guest stars on the show.
39:23
That was my favorite part where people in the workshop would
39:27
say, why can't we have Margaret Mead and Isaac, Ozzie Moff and
39:32
what, you know, all these other kinds of characters.
39:35
And basically Jim, because he had Bernie Brillstein as his
39:39
agent, he was listening to Bernie's suggestion for people
39:43
that had what they called TVQ, well that were gonna be, you
39:48
know, popular to the audience, that people would TuneIn to see
39:52
this guest star. So anyway, I found that
39:55
interesting because there was such a dichotomy in many ways
39:58
between all the people that were building the puppets.
40:02
The commerciality of Actually Making a successful show for
40:06
American population, You know, do you?
40:08
Wanna talk about her colors? Well, yeah.
40:10
I had decided early on that we would we would limit the colors
40:14
that she wore and that I assumed because she was the pig leaving
40:19
the farm, this sounds corny, but that she didn't wear earth
40:23
tones, she wore fantasy colors, pinks, purples, Blues.
40:28
And so we we really stuck to that color range.
40:32
I mean obviously there were changes in in different costumes
40:37
as needed, but I wouldn't put her in brown or green or yellow
40:42
which. So this goes to my story.
40:44
You haven't heard, I don't think, Pete.
40:46
But when they were doing Miss Piggy on the Rose Bowl parade on
40:51
a big float and they sent a list of the of the flowers that were
40:57
being used and the colors, and they said that she would be
41:00
dressed in yellow chrysanthemums.
41:03
And I said, Oh no, no, no, she doesn't wear yellow.
41:06
Yeah. And I I made a call to somebody
41:09
there and I insisted that they change the color and and Danny
41:13
has just provided me with a picture of the float where they
41:16
did put her in purple. I don't even remember that.
41:19
I thank you for sending but it was just a a funny.
41:25
And they and they talked about you.
41:26
You said they talked about you on the air.
41:28
Yeah, on the air there's some they were talking you know how
41:32
they chat as the as the floats are going by and Michael landed
41:37
said yeah. And there was some woman at The
41:39
Muppets who called us and told us she wouldn't wear yellow.
41:41
She has to wear purple and so. Brilliant House of Callista has
41:46
banned the yellow. Secret there.
41:50
Yeah. So here's the thing I wanna say
41:52
about designing for the puppets. Yeah.
41:56
And especially on the Muppet Show, where everything went so
41:59
quickly, I learned early on that you have to make it so clear, so
42:06
simple, so clear that it's almost like designing by cliche
42:10
is what I call it, 'cause, you know, they write a little bit
42:14
about about, OK, about Narian Opera Singer, So what?
42:20
How you gonna do that? And have it run across the stage
42:24
and know what you're looking at. So you have to OK, what's the,
42:28
what do I think of when I hear Wagnerian opera singer.
42:31
So of course it's the helm of the horns.
42:34
But you know, just having to break things down really simply
42:38
and the things that work the best were the ones that could
42:42
read the quickest, easiest to identify right away.
42:47
Yes. And it's only really the top of
42:51
the body most of the time that you're seeing so very little
42:54
nuance and subtlety when you're, you know, yeah, it's building so
42:59
quickly and you wanna know what it means.
43:01
So that was a big learning curve for me too.
43:05
And I think what was wonderful at at the studio where we were
43:09
shooting, it was an old, old time TV studio that had
43:15
everything there. The cafeteria that where the
43:18
shop, there was a latex shop where you could have things
43:21
molded. There was a a library, there was
43:25
a library to go like look up something if you wanted to get,
43:28
you know, you were doing AI can't think now Flamenco or a
43:33
gypsy or you know something where you wanted to see an image
43:37
that it was all there. So it was a really a wonderful
43:42
melting pot, creative melting pot.
43:45
The music studio was right there.
43:48
And Jim occasionally, you know, if they were doing a musical
43:51
number and he wanted to sing along with Pearl Bailey or I
43:54
don't know, it was just it was kind of you could step in and
43:58
and be a part of it. There was a There was a moment
44:04
when Jane Leventhal had just started working at Muppets and
44:08
she caught Jim and I talking on the stairs where it was just
44:12
before the Thanksgiving Day Parade.
44:14
And The Muppets were getting their act together to be.
44:18
I think Piggy and Kermit were gonna be in a limo going by
44:21
waving. And I was trying to talk Jim
44:24
into having a voice over us so that the the audience or the
44:29
people that were standing there would hear Miss Piggy's voice.
44:33
And Jane just listened to this conversation aghast and and was
44:40
like, you really believe that she's a real person?
44:46
Yes, of course, of course I, you know, and that that was just
44:50
true with The Muppets. They were all very Then, of
44:53
course I was dead and wrong. There was so much noise at the
44:56
parade you couldn't have heard. Anyway.
44:58
Oh, that's funny. There was that give and take We
45:01
were allowed to, you know, Jim was wonderful in his being
45:06
interested in everybody's opinion on the floor studio.
45:10
If if something wasn't working, he did he, he'd ask any kind of,
45:15
you know, gaffer, a person standing around what they
45:18
thought of it and, you know, be interested to hear what the,
45:22
what those responses were. He was very, very tuned into
45:27
that, what was, what was popular and what worked.
45:33
You know, you mentioned here in the Muppet Movie, Danny, the
45:37
Claudette Colbert outfit. I'm not sure I know what you
45:40
meant by that. Oh, that's.
45:43
By the side of the road when she's hit.
45:45
The road, yeah, from It happened one night.
45:47
Yeah, OK, but she's in her. She's in a little white blouse,
45:51
black skirt and redneck and the stress, because we've been had
45:57
such a rush to get the new piggy Miss Piggy molded heads done.
46:02
The neck on some of them was just disintegrating for some
46:07
reason. You know, whatever chemical mix
46:09
was, it didn't work. So nice little redneck scarf
46:13
served the purpose of what was going on underneath it.
46:19
Yeah, 'cause I was wondering that cause Colbert wears a sort
46:23
of Chevron Y, kind of. Had it had nothing to do with
46:27
that, except that she was an hitchhiking sitting.
46:31
In. The suitcase.
46:32
But you know, those early Muppet bodies were just pieces, you
46:39
know, that we would like and the legs if we needed to.
46:43
It wasn't until we had the photo studio and the workshop made us
46:49
photo puppets complete bodies that we could, you know, pose
46:54
them without them all falling apart.
46:58
I mean, those first two Miss Piggy calendars, we didn't have
47:02
poseable puppets. We just pieces.
47:06
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I think, I'm pretty sure
47:09
that's true. Maybe we had a we had a poseable
47:12
Miss Piggy, but mostly it was just take the puppets and, you
47:18
know, use some gaffers tape and put on some armature wire from
47:23
behind and make the arm stand up or pose it.
47:28
It was very slapdash. Yeah, can't tell no.
47:35
Yeah, you say. You say it was slapdash, and yet
47:37
they they were these exquisitely designed pieces of work.
47:41
Yeah. Right.
47:42
Have you seen them from behind? Maybe photo from behind?
47:47
Every now and then we would just laugh about it, 'cause you walk
47:50
behind and then it's all like gaffers tape.
47:53
And and everything. I love that.
47:55
I mean it. Honestly.
47:56
That's probably behind a lot of photo shoots, yes.
48:00
It's true. You know, before I worked at
48:03
Muppets, I did work as a photo stylist with Carl Fisher, who
48:08
was a photographer in New York who did a lot of magazine
48:11
covers. And he would call me when he
48:14
needed somebody to be there for costumes and or to make
48:19
something particular for a costume cover.
48:22
So I had that additional experience as well as the
48:28
Costume Construction Workshop. And what was what was the
48:32
schedule you you mentioned each image would take a couple of
48:37
days to pose and set up and and figure out lighting wise and all
48:42
of those things how what was the schedule overall for 12 calendar
48:47
images? I I think we would probably
48:50
maybe do 2A week. OK.
48:53
So lucky. I mean a really elaborate one
48:56
with bubble. I don't know the ones, the very
49:01
early ones, really took a long time.
49:05
Once we had the photo studio and we had all our stuff in one
49:08
place and made it made a lot of sense.
49:10
I mean, we. I think you did.
49:12
You said you did the first like, was it the first calendar or the
49:16
1st 2 calendars that was at somebody else's studio?
49:19
And Nancy Moran, yeah, Nancy had done a lot of photography for
49:23
for Muppets. She did the photos for that Life
49:26
magazine article, and she was the first one to sort of talk to
49:31
Jim into, I guess, taking pictures of the Naked Muppets.
49:37
Her studio was down in 20th St. and it was just, it was a
49:40
constant schlep back and forth. And then we'd find out we didn't
49:43
have everything we needed. It was just, it was it was very
49:46
disorganized. And I think those big photo
49:50
shoots went much more easily. When we had everything in one
49:54
place, That's when John Barrett moved in and did.
49:58
That's what I wanted to check with you.
50:00
Did we already check that Nancy Moran did the 2nd calendar too?
50:05
Yeah, we did. I am.
50:07
I am not sure the Muppet wiki page that I'm looking at doesn't
50:10
actually say the the photographer For the second one.
50:13
The first one it it does say that was Nancy.
50:15
Yeah, think she did the second one too.
50:19
But then how many? Five in total or four Should
50:24
know this, but you probably know it better than 55, OK?
50:28
Yeah, there was the the first one, the cover girls.
50:30
Then there was the great lovers of the silver screen.
50:33
Oh, yes. OK.
50:34
Yes. The calendar of calendars.
50:36
And then And then there was the Hermitage, the art masterpieces.
50:40
Oh yes, that was the final one. Yeah, that wasn't really a Miss
50:44
Piggy calendar, but that. See, OK, I'd like to talk now
50:48
then about the staff that we put together at the photo studio,
50:54
because that came that that that art masterpieces definitely came
50:58
out of our our photo studio staff.
51:03
We didn't have a lot of space, but we did have a small room
51:07
that used to be the room that Foz had been in when I first
51:11
started Emmett Otter. Anyway, Bruce and Deborah had
51:15
that room. Deborah Lombardi was the costume
51:18
designer and Bruce Barasco, her husband, was sets and props and
51:25
had its staff. A couple of Carpenter Let's see
51:29
Dennis Smith and Carl. And anyway, we could we could
51:37
build the props, we could build the set, we could build the
51:41
costumes all in one floor of the building.
51:44
And that really made things work much more smoothly.
51:49
I have a funny story to tell about that first summer when we
51:53
we had set up the studio and the first big project was Miss
51:56
Piggy's Guide to Life. I had been getting letters for
52:01
months from a student at Carnegie Mellon, Carnegie Check,
52:08
who wanted to to New York and be, you know, have a summer job
52:11
with The Muppets and died to come, dying to come.
52:14
Kept writing. Kept saying we didn't have a
52:16
position available and whatever. Finally I met this kid turns
52:23
into Linden Mossy. I don't know if you know the
52:26
name, but he's he became an art director of The Muppets.
52:30
But. He was so that that technique
52:33
worked. He was so smitten with The
52:35
Muppets and he just wanted to come And I said, well, maybe if
52:38
you could take it as internship, I'd like you could you could be
52:42
my shopper for the Miss Piggy's God to life, 'cause there's a
52:46
lot of things that we have to get.
52:48
And you know your way around New York.
52:50
He was a New York kid, so one of the first jobs I gave him.
52:56
I said, I don't think you're gonna find this, but just to see
53:01
if you can, I need a Barca lounger.
53:04
You know, one of those chairs that tips back and puts your
53:08
feet up. I need a Barca lounger.
53:10
That's Kermit Scale. Yes.
53:14
Do you believe such a thing ever would?
53:17
I was to build it. But then I sent Lyndon out, and
53:22
then one day he found a Barca lounger for Kermit, and it was
53:26
just like. Wow.
53:29
Where have you been all my lives?
53:31
Yes, yes. And he did and and you know he
53:37
made it his career. I think he still worked.
53:40
You know what he discovered which was very interesting that
53:45
in Hispanic neighborhoods where they had like family department
53:50
stores with a three piece suit for somebody really little, 3
53:57
year old, they like to dress a lot of immigrant families.
54:00
They like to dress their little children in grown up clothes.
54:04
Yes, yes, that rings a bell. Yeah.
54:08
Position for all of us working with puppets because if you had
54:12
a big number where you had to have three piece suits on a
54:14
whole lot of bodies, you could find them and alter them and
54:18
put, you know not have to start from scratch.
54:21
So I think the Bark Elantra was one of, you know, some crazy
54:26
idea for, you know, gift for a kid I guess, but you know, you
54:33
just can't believe what you can find in New York City.
54:35
But anyway, Linda is very, very hard working and adventurous and
54:42
he stuck around. Are there kind of favorite
54:47
standout costumes that you can think of?
54:50
Well, what do you remember as as looks that you really love well?
54:54
I think really, if you want to study Miss Piggy's evolution,
55:00
you have to go back to the Muppet Movie and look at the
55:03
montage sees Korman for the first time.
55:07
Because I think that's really where in my mind we started this
55:12
Miss Piggy fantasy and it was Jeff Rowley, the The Muppet
55:15
Movie. Very specific requests about
55:18
what he wanted to see as they as they went through this montage
55:22
and what, you know, they're running through the Meadow and
55:24
the Tom Jones outfit, the the darker Gray boxy fur coat and
55:31
hat that's more noir. And what were the other There's
55:37
one other look. Oh.
55:39
There's in the boat as well, with the wide brimmed hat.
55:42
Yeah, the Victorian floating by in the boat.
55:44
Yeah. But I don't know.
55:48
I think the way that that comes into the movie and she sees him
55:53
and the sparkle in her eye and then the fantasy just goes off.
55:57
I mean, that's really where that was, a springboard somehow for
56:02
getting into these fantasies were and just allowing, allowing
56:07
it to go. That makes a lot of sense.
56:12
It's it's this kind of unfolding catalogue of looks rather than,
56:17
rather than just sort of a specific look for a performance
56:20
to her imagination. Favorite moment in that movie is
56:24
when when they say Oh well we're we're driving to California
56:29
we're we're going to be in the movies and and when they they
56:33
say something like and you want to join us and then you know 30
56:37
seconds later the she's the suitcase packed or travel outfit
56:43
after after she's been in the beauty pageant she's just like
56:47
instantly there I'm coming. I don't know.
56:51
Do you have a favorite of those movies?
56:52
Which one would you say is? Oh, I love the Great Muppet
56:56
Caper. You did?
56:57
Yeah, just because it's so piggy focused.
57:00
Also, it's it's a screwball comedy and I and I love
57:03
screwball comedies with a period.
57:05
And you dress Piggy in these gorgeous, I think like really
57:09
inspired outfits. You know that so much of it you
57:13
need to understand is it's it's you're designing a costume and
57:18
you want it to be appropriate to the character, but you're also
57:21
maybe trying to hide a six foot puppeteer underneath it.
57:27
And so that, you know, like her, her wrote her some kind of Cape
57:31
I designed for the fashion show where she falls.
57:38
And you know, that was just a really long Cape because Frank
57:41
had to be under it. What would be your your fondest
57:50
wish for Miss Piggy's future are?
57:53
You asking both of us? Yeah.
57:57
I I'll I'll jump in because I. You actually have it designed
58:01
already in your head. Yeah, I do.
58:04
I really, really think she needs to do really premium imagery
58:08
again, like the calendars. And aside from that, I don't
58:14
know if it was if it was ever said, but I I worked on The
58:18
Muppets, the Jason Segel Muppets movie from from 2011 and one of
58:24
the jobs that I did a prop painting for it for it.
58:26
But the other job I had on it was to consult on the kind of
58:30
rebuild of the Miss Piggy puppet to make her look more
58:34
reminiscent of her glory days. So I'm very passionate about all
58:39
of, you know, the quality of her wigs, the look of her, that eye
58:43
design and all of those aspects. And I just would really like to
58:46
see her aesthetically elevated again.
58:50
Also, maybe played a little differently, but but I think her
58:54
having that world of fantasy around her that's that's done
58:59
with such kind of exquisite curation is such a key part of
59:04
not only her image being out there in a really quality way,
59:07
but also just it's it's just so she gets funnier the more art is
59:14
put into her presentation. Because if she's just kind of
59:17
put together in a like a child's dress and you know her hair's
59:22
looking a bit flat, then so much of the comedy is taken away.
59:25
But it's the way it's her level of narcissism that makes us so
59:29
hilarious. Well, you know, I just think she
59:35
needs to be reintroduced to a new generation.
59:40
I think we we have great memories of her.
59:43
But if if she's not out there and in imagery and in
59:49
performance, you you don't. There's a whole several
59:54
generations who missed out on knowing who Miss Piggy is.
59:58
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
59:59
I feel like there's. I mean when I was watching it
1:00:01
with my friends, daughters. They were loving the movie, but
1:00:06
there was a couple of comments earlier on just like, I love her
1:00:09
dress. Like just little girl, like I
1:00:12
love her dress but I don't know about her face and I was like,
1:00:16
well. She's a she's.
1:00:17
A lady pig, she's very she's she's a pig lady and and and I'm
1:00:22
like and really thoughtful faces like I guess a pig can be
1:00:27
beautiful like standing in the head.
1:00:31
So yeah, I think. If she had an opportunity to see
1:00:36
the development of her, I think that that would be different.
1:00:42
There's something that I have this, this is my nerdy dream
1:00:46
just for The Muppets in general is, you know, they did, they did
1:00:49
a couple live shows they did at the Hollywood Bowl several years
1:00:53
ago and then one at the at London's O2.
1:00:55
And for those, they just did The Muppet Show like a variety show,
1:01:01
again with comedy and with songs and huge crowds, 'cause they're
1:01:06
enormous theaters and people loved it.
1:01:10
And I've seen, I've seen lots of, like film of people like at
1:01:13
at the O2 and they just absolutely loved it.
1:01:16
But when people talk about like bringing The Muppets back for
1:01:20
another project, for TV or for anything, they always say, oh,
1:01:23
we couldn't possibly do a variety show like we'd never,
1:01:25
you know, Muppets Tonight kind of made a a a shot at it.
1:01:29
But even Muppets Tonight didn't really do songs in the way that
1:01:33
that the Muppeteer did. I I would love for them to try
1:01:36
make something for Disney Plus that's like a variety show and
1:01:40
then and then that's a a context where Miss Piggy can exist and
1:01:43
make sense. Really for all of us is knowing
1:01:48
what is what, what are the plans, what are what is Disney
1:01:52
and why. Why haven't they jumped at the
1:01:56
opportunity to keep these characters alive.
1:01:58
I know they have a hard it's very hard for them to understand
1:02:04
that the art of puppeteering basically you know they talking
1:02:08
about so and so you know Dave Coles is Gonzo's voice without
1:02:14
realizing no it's he's gone. He's gone.
1:02:17
You know he's moving the puppet. He's creating the character.
1:02:21
I I don't know. I I I I'd love it to continue on
1:02:25
some level because I think kids love it.
1:02:28
And I know a lot of kids whose parents are, you know, just have
1:02:32
the DVDs of the Muppet shows and they watch the Muppet shows and
1:02:36
they have. Well, Kalissa, one thing that I
1:02:43
I want to ask about is, is about you sort of after once you know
1:02:47
you you were still working with The Muppets into the 80s and
1:02:51
then what, what was your transition, what happened, what
1:02:55
happened next for you? I was.
1:02:58
I was kind of feeling like I needed a break from The Muppets
1:03:01
and took a job with a show that Lorne Michaels was doing.
1:03:08
He was giving up Saturday Night Live and doing the new show.
1:03:11
Do you remember the new show? No.
1:03:15
Just one season, but it had a wonderful cast, Catherine
1:03:17
O'Hara, and a bunch of people and I I joined a friend of mine
1:03:23
who had been working on Saturday Night Live, and we did that and
1:03:28
that was an interesting break. I then I did a soap opera for a
1:03:33
while. I then did a show called
1:03:34
Encyclopedia, which was an interesting kids sketch comedy
1:03:40
show. It was a collaboration between
1:03:45
HBO and Children's Television Workshop and it we had a female
1:03:51
impersonator. Ethel Eichelberger was one of
1:03:54
the characters who would. He did a lot of stuff in drag
1:03:58
and a girl group called Betty. And it was, it was just faith.
1:04:04
Prince was in it. Nobody really saw it because it
1:04:07
was the time when HBO was just sort of coming into a throne and
1:04:11
not that people and that many at HBOI mean.
1:04:15
So a lot of it is on YouTube now, but I got it.
1:04:20
I did get an Emmy Award for costume design for that 'cause
1:04:24
it was all bizarrely you know, a chicken within an egg and.
1:04:30
Wow. Odd costume challenges.
1:04:34
And that's the encyclopedia show.
1:04:35
I I need to look it up, yeah. Just go to YouTube, you can see
1:04:39
some of the sketches maybe. And it's not.
1:04:41
It's not all great by any means, but it it it was a it was a
1:04:45
stretch. Then I decided to switch
1:04:48
careers. Did you know I did that?
1:04:50
No, no. What did you do then?
1:04:53
Well, I was finding myself volunteering all over the place.
1:04:57
I was doing the AIDS epidemic. There was just so much going on
1:05:00
that seemed, you know, I I needed to do it to get into a
1:05:04
more caring profession. So I just left costume design
1:05:08
behind. I went back to school, became an
1:05:11
occupational therapist. Oh well.
1:05:13
And when I explained to people what, how did I do that?
1:05:18
You know, that's like something so different.
1:05:22
But I feel like it was I I I had been good at creative problem
1:05:29
solving with The Muppets. And then I into a totally other
1:05:33
area where the jobs were everywhere.
1:05:37
I had as many jobs as I wanted. I didn't have to chase after
1:05:40
some kind of costume job that I didn't really feel like I wanted
1:05:44
anymore. I mean I feel like I was very
1:05:45
spoiled all those puppets that it was just wonderful and I I
1:05:50
didn't feel like I needed to stick around for for that any
1:05:56
longer. And it and it's very plan I
1:05:58
have, I've had a very meaningful other 25 year career working
1:06:03
with children with disabilities and solving their problems so
1:06:07
that. Is wonderful.
1:06:08
Well, I've retired now from 2 careers.
1:06:12
Well, now you're just cheering us up today.
1:06:16
I just really enjoy remembering it and talking about it, so I
1:06:19
thank you both very much. It's so nice to talk to people
1:06:23
who understand it. Thank you so much for talking to
1:06:28
us. This has been like such a dream.
1:06:30
Wonderful for me too. Yeah, it's.
1:06:33
Great to get to know you and I will stay in touch.
1:06:36
I would love that. Yay.
1:06:38
Thank you. Thank you to the delightful
1:06:41
Peter Savieri for joining me as my Co host today.
1:06:44
And kissy kissy. And thank you for listening to
1:06:46
this episode of the fantastic Miss Piggy podcast, brought to
1:06:49
you by my friends at toughpigs.com.
1:06:51
Coming up in the next episode, it is the season finale for the
1:06:54
podcast and I will be telling you the story of Campo, the
1:06:57
committee to award Miss Piggy the Oscar.
1:06:59
It is a David and Goliath story where everyone is out of their
1:07:02
minds, so come back for that. A big thank you to Johannes and
1:07:06
Tough Pigs for making this project possible.
1:07:08
And special thanks to the editors of Muppet Wiki for
1:07:10
giving me just what I need anytime I need it.
1:07:13
If you have comments or questions or you know stuff
1:07:15
about Miss Piggy that you'd like to share, you can write to me at
1:07:18
fantasticmisspiggy@gmail.com. That's fantastic Miss Piggy at
1:07:21
Gmail, and please do. It's been really nice hearing
1:07:24
from people. I'm also on X at Fantastic Miss
1:07:27
P Or come and join us on the Tough Pigs Discord.
1:07:30
Thank you everyone. I'll see you next time.
1:07:32
Gee, I'd like to see you looking swell, baby.
1:07:40
Diamond bracelets. Woolworth doesn't sell baby till
1:07:48
that lucky day. You know that.
1:07:51
Well, baby, I can't give you anything but love.