Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Tinashe

Transcript

Tinashe · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin Tinache's changing what a pop music career can look like.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Back in twenty fourteen, her song two On featuring Schoolboy
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Q became a huge hit. It was her very first
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: single from her very first album and seems like a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: clear indication that she was poised for more chart success. Instead,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: something maybe more interesting happened. Instead of dominating the pop market,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: she released projects that missed the Billboard chart but gained
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: her an incredibly strong and loyal fan base. She even
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: left her label in twenty nineteen to go independent and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: brought her fans along with her, and now ten years later,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: has her second Billboard hit with the viral sensation Nasty.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Nasty comes from her new album Quantum Baby, the second
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: part in a trilogy of albums that, to my ears,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: sounds like her best work yet. I spoke to Tina
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: from Amazon's Studio one twenty six about these trio of albums,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: including her big summer hit and the time she spent
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: weeks filming The Polar Express with Tom Hanks. This is
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Tinche Yo. Congratulations on like everything,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah thing is crazy.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm excited.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: We kind of set this up like a while ago.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I want to say, like before the song was going
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to do it. You've been doing incredible work for so long.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: It's like it's incredible to see the payoff.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels good time having fun.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what was Maybe we can just start with
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Nasty and yeah what I guess, or maybe let's just
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: start with the new part two in general, like how
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: were you part one in part two of Baby Angel,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Baby Angel? Pronounce it a baby Angel, Baby Angel, Like
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: how did you kind of make both at the same time?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well I initially went in with the intention of
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: making a full length project, but breaking it up into
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: parts to give people enough time to really chew on
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: each piece of material. I think, you know, we live
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: in this day and age, it's very quick to consume,
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: and I think as an artist, you know, you spend
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: so much time working on the songs and curating them
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: so perfectly and listening to them over and over and
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: over again. There's something kind of sad every time you
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: release like a full length project and you're like.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Well, what about this track and this track and this track?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: You know, like people get caught up.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Obviously, the singles get their light, they get their shine,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: they get their little focused track.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Moment or a music video or something.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: But there's usually so many other songs on a record
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: that you want to like celebrate or you know, let
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: them have their flowers. So I thought it would be
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: smart to break it up into three different parts, seven
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: songs each. So I initially started working on just like
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: a huge batch.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you wanted people to be able to digest yeah,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: something in.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just each individual batch chunk.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So then how many how many songs did you wind
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: up recording?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: A lot?
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Every project, I end up recording a lot of material usually,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: so I don't know, there's not really like a set number.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: But I would say it was getting into like the
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: I would say fifty, I would say fifty fifty records
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: maybe wow.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: But those aren't all like fully fleshed out ideas.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: They're usually like I'll start a song, make a verse hook,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: call that a song, you know, Yeah, decide if I'm
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: fucking with.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It, I want to change it.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: We'll take me to the inception of stuff. So like,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: how do you how do you work with it? Like
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: there's some great producers on here, obviously Nasty's Ricky reed,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: but you got no such thing. Yeah, he had some
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: incredible cuts on the part too.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Andy produce talks to me nice on part one.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So I feel like that's like a great connection of
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: and also kind of shows how the cohesion between the
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: first project the second project, and also the evolution of
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: the from the first project to the second project, you know,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: because they're both the same, but you know they're different,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: they have their own personalities.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So how do you how do you like lock in
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: with the producer and kind of like tell me the
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: process of like who starts, like are you are you
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: going to listen through? Listen for some for tracks, listen for.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then I mean it kind of depends on
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: who I'm working with or kind of the mood of
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: the day. A lot of times will start from scratch,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: depending on the producer. If they're more comfortable with like
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: playing beats that they've kind of made, then like that's
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: cool too, because I will definitely take an idea, start
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: something and then kind of go back in and like
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: make tweaks and make.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Edits that way.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: But I also love starting from scratch if people are
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: down for that, So you know, just kind of starting
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: usually with like a bpm a tempo, something that feels inspiring,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: something I want to dance to, something that feels different
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: and unique as well.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: That's something in that moment feels Yeah.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels right, it feels inspiring.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Is there something off Part two that started that way?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like was all a card to you?
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I feel like every record was, honestly,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: thinking back on it, nasty definitely, red flags mmmm yeah,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: so many, all of them. Okay, getting no sleep. He
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: didn't cook that one in the room though. That was
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: more like we had a session the first day. I
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: told him what I wanted. He said, I'll come back
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: with something tomorrow. So it was still like it was
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: still special, you know, Taylor tailor made for you?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Spend a lot more time on it, given you have
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: so many like great deep cuts on an album. M hm.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: And that was kind of the impetus for maybe breaking
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: these these up a bit. How do you go about
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: deciding once you have a set of songs, what's what
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the single is going to be?
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this, I may actually get some feedback on the
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: single because I do want to hear what other people
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: are into, but not necessarily the songs on the album itself.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Like I'll definitely refer to which ones I'm looking back
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: on and constantly playing to see which songs are like
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: the keepers. But sometimes the singles is just like playing
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: it for a few people and you can tell.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's the one that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Sparks the idea for a music video, like, oh, I
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: could do this really cool concept.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I'd love to give this a moment.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just highlighting up record that I feel like
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: would otherwise be just lost in the shuffle.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: There's not like a huge rhymor reason mind.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: It so, But there are some songs at the end
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: of the day you'll set aside as being like maybe
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you have a hunch these could or.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just because people are usually excited about it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: People in the studio, yeah yeah, or play things in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: your life or whatnot. Any thing you can point as
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: to why you feel like Nasty is doing what it's doing.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I mean I think a lot of things.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Probably, I think the fact that the song is very catchy,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: it's easy to get in your head. You can hear
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: it one time, you kind of remember it, or you
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: kind of know what's what it's about. I think the
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: simplicity of it lends itself to being a hit song.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: I think it doesn't really sound like too much other
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: stuff on the radio right now or like in the
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: universe right now. I think it has its own vibe
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: with kind of the minor chord section going into like
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: the major chord hook. So I think that stands out
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: in a way. I think it's memeable. You know. It's
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: got these like funny, funny lines that are like is
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: somebody gonna match my freak? Or I having a nasty girl?
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: You know that people are just finding these little memorable moments.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: And I also just think like time and place, like
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: you know, just sometimes the universe just the perfect storm
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: of everything coming together, everything else that's out right now
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: where I'm at my career, the fact that it's summer,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I think there's just so many things that go into it.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: The lines part about the meaning of life, even like
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: you deliver it is really like your delivery on that yeah,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: so interesting, even like I need somebody with a good technique.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: It's just it makes you, It makes you feel something different,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean you're like, oh, it's just like
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: there's a you could tell that there was really almost
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like a I mean in a way, it's almost
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: like maybe the way like an actor reads lines. Yeah,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: treated I don't know that you did that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: But as a listener, there was definitely a purposefulness of
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: the approach to the verse. Like how I said it,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I really wanted it to be in like a conversational
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: part of my voice, and so it felt very in
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: your face and really like I was just talking to
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: you and not like I was trying too hard to
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: like perform it or sing it or do it in
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: my singing voice or any particular voice. Because sometimes easy
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: to do that too, you know, like perform it in
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: like a sexier tone or like you can do so
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: many different ways to make it interesting if you will.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: But I really wanted it to be like in a talky,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: conversational kind of tone.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Is that like an intentional set out in the studio?
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: And then like, I guess, how do you get vocal feedback? Yeah?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I also don't really get vocal feedback.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I usually it's just me and my engineer recording everything
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: and yeah, just doing whatever feels right. I actually don't
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: like vocal feedback. Every time there's like a vocal producer
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: in the room. I'm like, this is so annoying. Let
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: me sing it how I want to see it. The
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: initial reason was because I'd recorded it as a freestyle
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: and I had that tone. So listening back to the
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: freestyle that I'd recorded, I was like, that sounds good.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: I tried to mimic it, and it didn't come across
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: that same way. So I was very specific in trying
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: to like mimic it the way that I just was
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: saying when I was messing around.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Wait, so what part of exactly was a freestyle?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: The whole I've been a nasty girl, nasty and is
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: somebody gonna match my freak? Is somebody gonna match my freak?
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Is somebody gonna match my nasty?
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: The whole thing? The uh, the whole thing.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I have it.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I have it in my computer on photo booth.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Wait, is that what you were? It wasn't like a
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: voicemail you got you hopped on photo booth.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Because I was driving in my car and the
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: music was playing off my phone, so I had to
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: record myself. So I had my laptop and the passengers like,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: open it up, very sick. I wasn't filming myself.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: It was just filming the audio then Yeah, how.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Much is that a part of your process freestyling?
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like that gives me the best product.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: So I always try to be very purposeful about following
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: my instinct and making sure that I record my initial
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: instinct on a b That's really important too, because a
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: lot of times I just think that that's your best
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: idea for some reason.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Just is so recording things going back to hear what
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the initial like, Yeah, what really spoke to you initially? Yeah,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, not exaggerating but building on them yeah hmm.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: And a lot of times either there will be words already,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: like with Nasty there were actual words, tangible words, but
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: sometimes it's just melodies.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's gibberish.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's a word here and there, mumbo jumbo, and
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: you kind of have to like excavate the lyrics. But yeah,
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I think that's usually how I write nearly every song.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's really cool.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you just kind of felt like, yeah, well I
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: really love that, Like West Coast kind of chilled but
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: still makes you want to dance. It's that pocket that
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: like everyone wants to bob their head. Everyone could kind
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: of catch that beat. It's not too up, it's not
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: too slow. Yeah, And I've been DJing a lot lately
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: and there's always like a lot of songs in that
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: like ninety nine one hundred bpm that I love to play.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know because I grew up on the West Coast,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: but it was like sweet Spot.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: What are those tracks?
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know, like anything like Ti Dolla Sign or
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: like YG you know, like that it's giving that laid back,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: effortless bop energy and wanting to kind of start with
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: that pocket.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, dope. When did you officially move to California?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: How old were seven?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: You were seven?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Did it feel? How was coming out here? Like? Because
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: you were obviously from a young age plugged into the arts,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: plugged into music, digesting things that you're taking in. How
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: did how to moving here change the way you you
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: listened to things and felt things and what you wanted
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I feel like the West Coast has such a specific
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: style of just culture and sound, whether it be like
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: how the culture of creating music, you know, being in
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: that culture from really young age, being in the studios,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: you know, seeing how songs were made, you know how
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: producers worked, you know, just the culture of chilling in
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: La and the laid backness of it all. And I
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: think that has a lot to do with like approach,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: subject matter, PPM style, just different things that I tend
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: to like, you know, growing up here has a very
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: clear vibe in my opinion.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to explain I think to people that
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: don't grow I grew up here too. It's like and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: there is a certain cadence and a swim rhythm. I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: guess a rhythm to life here, and I guess it's
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: maybe like you can explain to New Yorker because they
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: also have a rhythm that they're plugged.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Into the different one, but they feel.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Very much and feels superior.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, But but I do think like like coming like
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously the legacy of kind of like that
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: West Coast swing that goes into like a yg My
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: crazy life and all these others like I love And
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: now that you're saying that, I can kind of hear
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: that because you do have a unique.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Style, Yeah, thank you.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And it feels like because Tuon it was your first single, Yeah,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: turned out to be a big Yeah, definitely, and it
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: feels like you kind of came fully formed.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well it had that pocket too, so I feel
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: like that's another reference point always like going back to
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: being like, how do we you know that there was
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: some magic in that what was that?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: You know, what set that song apart?
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: And I think that part of it is that identity,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: having that kind of its own identity, its own vibe,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: its own cadence, And yeah, I don't know, I just
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: remember like growing up and going to dance it, you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: just being around at the house parties and stuff like that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's just very visceral and you want to
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: be a part of it and you want to just
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: like have that energy. So going into my entire career,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: I kind of always had in the back of my
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: head like every project has a couple of those little
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: tracks sprinkled in, from back to my first mixtape, Like
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I have a record on there called Chainless that's like
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: the super West Coast, just like we shot it on Fairfax,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: like shot the music video. It's just kind of funny
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: to see how everything comes very full circle, you know.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, you've stayed based here your whole career. Yeah right, yeah,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: how do you You're just I'm just thinking you shot your
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: very first video from your mixtape on Fair Facts. Yeah,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: you're a very different stage in your career in life
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: at this point today.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just driving in traffic in the exact
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: same location where I shot that video.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Like wow, I'm just dripping about, like how like how
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: you must experience a city so differently.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's amazing.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I think the evolution and the journey is all these
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: little moments along the way really make it so much
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: more meaningful and impactful to be where I am now
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: and to kind of see firsthand you can you can
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: compare very easily like the then and now, and I
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: think that that makes it really sweet.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll be right back with more from
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a conversation with Tina. We're back with Tinache. I want
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: to talk a bit about your journey to being like
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: an independent artist or your journey since becoming an independent artist.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that you seem to kind of be ahead
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of the curve a bit on that.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's the queriesst of me, Like we're
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: always trying to move.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Ahead of the curve.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I guess I always trying to see about corners and
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I was just.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Trying to make your own path, you know, carve your
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: own way.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Because it's like you left your label in twenty nineteen, yeah,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and so five years later it seems to be like,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: like I just saw today Neo is going independent. Really
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: like this is a real sort of time, a real
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: pivotal like kind of like a boiling point in music
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: where artists are realizing what they can do for themselves
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and you've got like a five year head start on it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Can you take me through the decision to go independent?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: I think for me it The thing about the independent
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: route that I you know, try to emphasize or keep
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: in mind is that I do think I wouldn't necessarily
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: ride out the gate be like everyone should be independent.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's like a very case by case basis.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: I feel like I had a very lucky perfect storm
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: of like having the experience with the major label that
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: kind of sowed a lot of seeds for me, and
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: then like you know, establishing a fan base that was
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: very dedicated and like super loyal, so that when I
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: was able to make that step, they were able to
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: go with me and follow me and still continue to
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: support me. Because I do think the independent grind is
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: super difficult, and so I think it's it's more what's
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: really important is being able to tailor your career specifically
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: for like what works for you. Because the reason I
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: went into bed personally was because I just like mentally
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: was not.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Enjoying being in the.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Place where I couldn't make all of the creative financial,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: you know, timing decisions when it came to my music.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And I think it works for some people. You know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: you know it's a complicated relationship.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, but I mean like it must have been
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: because you know, like there's a world it must not
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: have even been label specific, or you could tell me
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: if it was, because it's like, I'm sure you could
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: have just like found a different relationship that worked.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: You mean, like a different record late.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I wasn't interested in that at that point because I
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: really wanted to, I guess, prove to myself that my
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: decisions were still the right decisions. And I was very
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: wary of adding more cooks to the kitchen, if you will,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: I think it you know, like when you're working with
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: a bigger team, a bigger machine, you start making little
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: compromises here and there. It's not necessarily like it's in
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: your face, and it's very cut and dry, like I'm
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: making the wrong decision. It's you know, you start listening
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: to so many different opinions and there's a lot of
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: outside noise, and I think I really wanted to just
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: eliminate all of that, go back to my roots, go
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: back to making music in my house, in my home,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: and being the sole decider of like this is the one,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: this is what I'm going to do, this is what
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I want to put out, and so yeah, it was
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: just really important for me at the time to make
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: that decision to like fully embrace.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Being by myself, you know, on a creative front.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you had mentioned that it's like, you know, when
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you go independent, there's not like some you know, I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: mean there's kind of there's not some like predetermined path
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: like you kind of have to tailor it to you.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: That's who you are as an artist and you taste.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: So what were some of those early conversations you were
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: having amongst you know, your team at that point about
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: what how you could position yourself to be successful?
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the biggest question mark is always like
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: how are we going to fund this? So it's there's
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: big ideas, but without you know, a major label budget.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: You're constantly thinking about how are we going to find
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: the funds, get the funds or you know, like make
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: the funds.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: You know, like you just have to figure it out.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: You get very super.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Smart about how you spread out your financial decisions, where
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: you spend the money, how you spend the money, looking
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: for like the tiniest ways to be able to cut
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: corners to maximize the art itself. And I think for
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: a couple of years that was definitely something that was
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: a big focus was just trying to figure out how
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: do we just keep it going, keep the art coming, keep.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: The music videos coming with the budget that we've got.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: And did you feel like you had to almost step
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: up the output in a sense.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Of course, because you always have to continue to step
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: up the output, I think just competing in this environment,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: and also as the type of artist that I am,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Like I'm not brand new, so I'm constantly trying to
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: raise the bar creatively and with my own work.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So I mean a lot.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Of times when you have like crazier and crazier ideas,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: you know, it costs more and more money, so you're
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it's just something that you're constantly trying to figure out
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: where how to negotiate that, like within your own mind.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: You know, as an artist, obviously you never want to
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: compromise your art and you can't, but you have to
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: figure out how to be crafty sometimes.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Right How how I mean, how did that then impact
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the art?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: I think I enjoyed it because it was empowering in
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: a sense. I mean, it was difficult, but it was
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: empowering to know that all of the output was because
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: of hard work and great relationships and.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: You know, just the strength if you will.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: So Yeah, I think everything that we did have going
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: independent really led up to these moments that I'm having now,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: really paved the way because I was able to re
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: establish I think how like my perception within the industry.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I think people respected the fact that I was making
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: it on my own and that kind of changed I
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: think how people perceived me.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that because you know, like obviously
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: when your first singles too on and it does what
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it does, I mean, I'm sure there must have been
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: some sort of temptation to just sort of slot you
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: into the pop machinery. Yeah, but very clearly like you
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: are a different kind of artist.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't like being put in a specific box
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: very much. I tend to break and push against that.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: So I feel that initially there were a lot of labels,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: whether it was just simple things like genre. Like I
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: was very opposed to being labeled as like a particular genre,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: and still to this day, I don't feel that pressure
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: as much anymore because I feel like people have an
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: understanding of like the fact that I do genre hop
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: and use a lot of inspiration from different things. But
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I definitely feel like at the beginning, just a very
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: visceral reaction to be like, no, not put me in
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: that box.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You're right, you know, and they're trying to just sell
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: you to a certain market.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's so.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Much more nuanced and complicated and layered and colorful than that.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. One one of the things I noticed about
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: like it was so is listening to that we spent
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the last almost year with part one and now getting
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the chance to preview Part two, it's refreshing that there's
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: no features, Like it's nice just to hear you like
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: straight up you like, you know what I mean, And
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's something that is I don't know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: it's not it's we don't get a lot of these days.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And I love that you're able to make decisions like that,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Like it's just gonna be you going to work on
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a song with the producer and we're only going to
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: hear from you because I mean you have a real
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: distinct point of view.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I mean I love just having the work speak for itself.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's what these projects do, which
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I really love is that they're simple and the fact
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: that it's all me. There's not as many like side
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: quests and different things added to like add flavor or spice.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just it's simple and it's all me.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So that's great, that's amazing.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Do what kind of how do you so if you're
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: coming from a system where there's like it's more team yeah,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: or there's just kind of a larger decision making body. Yeah,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and you kind of scale this way down when you record,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: say fifty something songs, Yeah, and you're thinking about, well,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I like these I want to make this into something.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Who are you talking with to sort of figure out
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: what the what the viue with the move is? Yeah?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Like all these good and ye put them out, et cetera.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do have like a team that I trust,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: like people that are close to me that I trust
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: by keep my circle super small, so I would say
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: it's not that many people, and even within that team,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's important to really not
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: even ask that many people's opinions, like really, not at all,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: like truly, not at all, because I think that that
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: just messes with your instinct and I think a lot
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: of the times, at the end of the day, you
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: know what you want to do.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: If you don't, you.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Can ask, which is great, but you don't always have
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: to ask. I don't know, it's not that many people.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: You got to keep it tight.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Do you have any Do you have any other artists
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that are kind of in your circle of people that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you could hit up to be like on a creative
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: decision level, like.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Not really, honestly, no really no really yeah no, not
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: really shocking. I mean, maybe I'm sure I could, but
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: I haven't.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: That's really impressive because I mean the output's really good.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: But I'm also very precious with my music, Like I
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: don't really like the experience of sharing, Like I don't
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: like sharing it with people. I like sharing it with people.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be a part of it. Once
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I've shared it with you, like I want to, It's
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: almost like I don't want to hear your feedback.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want to.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: I don't want to consider what you thought of it
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: or how you took it. Like the art speaks. It
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: is what it is. The art was made for the
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: purpose of expressing a certain feeling. How you interpret it
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: is your business in a sense. And that goes for
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: like my family friends, Like I don't like to watch
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: people listen to my music or hear people hear it
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: for the first time, Like I'd rather be totally separate.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: From them, be like here it is.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Enjoy it is, yeah, Like enjoy, hate it, whatever you
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: do with it. But at that point, it's really not.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: My business.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: A strong strong that's a strong that's a strong way
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to handle that. Yeah, you say too in interviews that
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: like you really don't. You don't even when you're making
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: music consider yeah, like whoa, this could be this could
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: be a hit, Like there's that not that that that's
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: not an expectation that you put on your on your art.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I feel like I did for a certain
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: amount of time and it was detrimental to my creative process.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I feel like it just changed how I would approach things.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: It's too formulaic in what way, Like it's too formulaic,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Like it's too gameplaye. It limits you and how you
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: just like think about things like you're trying to make
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: it fit a certain amount of bars or you know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: sound like we got to get to the hook first,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: or you know, we have to it has to be
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: these certain you have to say the hook, you have
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: to say the word four times, you know, Like there's
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: all these like fake rules that people make up of
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: like how to make a hit song, and I think
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: it's very limiting in terms of just like how you
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: approach it. I think a better decision is to just
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: make it however you want to make it, and then
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: if you want to edit it to something that feels
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: more consumable or more hit like or whatever.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: That's different or even just more to your liking or
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: more to.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Your liking, which is what I tend to focus on,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Like I just don't even bother trying to like make
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: a hit.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's fickle.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And also I consider like every song I make could
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: be potentially a hit, so I don't like to put
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: that like hierarchy on them.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just so funny. I'm just so bugged
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: out because I mean I was talking to someone before
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you got here, like needs to.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Me, Yeah, needs a great song sounds like just as like.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking about, I'm like as great as Nasty
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: as I'm like, you never know, but it really goes
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to it really just illustrates the point you really never do.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: You never know, you never know, and so much is
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: out of everyone's control.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so just make what you want to make and
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: then like let it, let it happen.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Does does this just having Nasty which is like like
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: kind of shape up to the song on the Summer?
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, like what like does
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that impact the way you feel about your music or
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the way that you're thinking about your sort of career
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: now that you are more in control of Yeah.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, oh, I mean you have the thoughts, the
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: thoughts like creep in where you're like what now, what?
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Like where do we go next? Like yeah, what if?
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: The what ifs? Like what happens next? What does this mean?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Thoughts of like does this mean that everything else I've
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: ever done is not as valuable as this? You know,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Like there's so many different ways you can look at it,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, not really.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I'm more focused on the fact that I'm just enjoying
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: what's going on and like living in the moment, trying
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: not to like let those intrusive thoughts in or really
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: focus on any of that.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's where you mess up.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I'm not really trying to change anything
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: about the process in terms of the art or what
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: I would do next.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Have you had what are the conversations you've had with
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: with Ricky Reid who produced it? Around it?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: We're just happy, Like it's it's fun every day just
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: seeing all the way people are sharing it and all
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: the different milestones that we're hitting.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: It's just like a celebration.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gotta be huge. I mean it's like and
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like for your fans too, it's funny. Your
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: fans are super dedicated. Yeah, And it almost seemed as
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: if when you went independent, they went into like overdrive,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: like super like protective, super and like so for a while,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it was like the narrative was like that you were
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: like underrated for something that was like your fans were
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: always in things like ye, people would be like, oh,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the best R and B vocalist of the twenty tens.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Then they'd be like, why.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Isn't this.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, of course. It's like, dude, what a
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: blessing to have like fans like that that it got
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: your back like that, and but it's like it's so
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just as a as a I'm a
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: huge R and B fan, I feel like R and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: B doesn't get and not that not to put you
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: in a box, but I feel like R and B
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't always get no.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: It doesn't.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I think that's why I was so had such an
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: aversion to like being in that box. It wasn't because
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: I don't love R and B. It's because I know
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: how push to the side R and B always gets.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: It always feels like a side category or like something
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: that's like, yeah, R and B, it's cool.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets no, like in terms of like we
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: think about it like hip hop before that rock and roll, Yeah,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: like take up all the oxygen in the room.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But every time that R and B has had
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: its like main moment, they just consider it pop. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: I think that was like that was my issue when
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I first got in the game. So I'd be like, yeah,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I make R and B. But to me that's I
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: don't know. I grew up in like the early two thousands,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: all of the pop songs were like R and B songs.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a great point that every time R
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and B has a moment, it just gets called pop
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: like Michael Jackson's like.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Or hip hop, like it falls into other categories.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: So, you know, people just the borders are so loose
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: in certain regards like.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: What is what.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: But there is music that we call that I guess
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: just for shorthand. But the funny thing about it is
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: like I feel like, more than any of the music,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: it's always been relevant to our lives as people, like
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: total everyone like has you know rumbers their first dance
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: or like their wedding song or like whatever, like whatever.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: There's all these like landmark moments in our lives are
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: kind of soundtracked totally bar and B. And it's always there.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: It's like it's always selling. It's always these popular artists,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: but no one really is, like no one talks about it.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Give R and be her flowers.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: It needs it, you know. After one more quick break,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: we'll be back with the rest of t Nashe. We're
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Tshe. How
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: does d Jane you mentioned that you DJ in Yeah,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: how does Djane impact your your sort of your palette.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: I think it's just again like that awareness of like
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: bpm and how I want to approach mixing certain songs
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: where I see them in a set kind of affects
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: like how I approach it in the studio, just considering
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: the different tempos and the different energies that I want
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: to convey, but at the same time also flipping the
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: script in that way, like if I have a BPM
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: that's super fast, approaching it like in a halftime speed
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: or vice versa. Right, So I think that that, Yeah,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: like if we have like a seventy bpm kind of
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: approaching it, how I would.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: You know exactly? Do you do you spin your own
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: music as well?
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Of course I do. Okay, Yeah that's the fun part.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: How like out is it like you just sneak a
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: song in or like yeah.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not shy about it. Like whatever, I want
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: to play my songs. I like them, I made them,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: I'm putting them in the setlist.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Will you play new stuff like you would you play stuff.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Have you played stuff that you haven't even put.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Out totally unreleased?
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I've played like unreleased remixes and things like that, but
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: I've never played a fully, fully fully unreleased song in
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: a set.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, I don't.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's probably a good idea, but I've been getting
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I told you, I don't like list watching people listen
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: to my music for my first time.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So like in a DJ set's like my worst night.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's kind of like a really organic
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: way to like just sort of see how people are vibing.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: But in my mind I would though, in my mind,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, they're all dancing because they hate it,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: and they're trying to act like they like it.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: They're trying to dance.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: They that's a really convoluted Wow, these people are dark.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: How did you connect with the hot Like, how did
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you connect with the producers on across these various projects?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one was a lot of.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: People that I knew through my management Rock Nation, and
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: then also just people that I've worked with on my
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: last project, kind of carrying over.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Not not Baby angel Part one, but.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like the three three three two Baby Angel Era
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: on probably within the last I would say five years.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: People that I've worked with or like one of the
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: producers on this projects, like my brother's friend and like
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: was my brother's roommate.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Who's that His name's Troy Okay.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's produced. He produced him. He also produced a
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: song on three three three. So I'm like, I'll find
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: beats or I'll work with whoever. Honestly, kind of if
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: your shit taught, I'm into it. I'm interested.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I enjoy the process.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Of getting new vibes from different creatives and having new
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: people in the room and fresh energy. I guess I'm
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: not really the type of artist that like we're the
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: same producer for like a really long period of time. Yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: if I do work with someone for a long period
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: of time or multiple times, like I really we really
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: have a good vibe, like an especially good vibe.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So it's like the producers like no such thing on
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: like as been across Bar one and two. Yeah, that's
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I imagine this producer got like a pretty strong vie.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I've got a great vibe for sure.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: He's a super creative guy, just super down to earth,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: and I think I enjoy the fact that he is
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: like an ultra creative Some people I feel don't push
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: me as much and others do. Like his stuff is
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: so it's so out of the box sometimes that I
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: feel pushed creatively to try to meet him at that level,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's really inspiring for me, rather
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: than you know, beats that I feel, Oh, this is easy.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I'm coming up with ideas right away. Sometimes I like
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: a challenge to get in the studio be like I
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: have no idea what I.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Would sing on this, how to approach this.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I have no idea how to approach this. That's more exciting.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Wow, how much do you how many different like iterations
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: of what will like songs go through? Like yeah, especially particular,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: like I just talk about this project.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: In particular, It kind of depends on the song. I
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: would say. Usually there's an.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Initial draft of the song where I decide that I
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: like really like it, or I don't like it, and
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: then I'll kind of go in and make little individual tweaks.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: And that can be adding backgrounds, that can be changing
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: the beat, that can be changing lyrics on a verse,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: that could be re singing sections. And that can either
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: be like one session or like ten sessions. You know,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: like just kind of depends on how many things I
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: end up wanting to add or change, but initially to
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: come up with the like main meat of the song.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: It's usually like one main session.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Nice, Yeah, what I want to talk about? No sleep. Yeah,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: that's a song that sounds almost like like I guess
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't could sound disparaging, but almost sounds like a
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: demo to me in the sense that it sounds like effortless. Yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: like that it sounded like you like you guys put
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: like like you just like like a Michael Jordan game
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: or something that just came out with the flu and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: some shots and you're.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I like that feedback because I feel like
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: there was a certain there were some decisions made in
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: how I approached that song that I wanted it to
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: feel very effortless, not singing, not like I was trying
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: to overly perform. Whether it's the fact that a lot
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: of that song is like a single vocal, there's not
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of stacks. It feels very kind of like
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: a freestyle, like it all just kind of spilled out,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: the fact that the structure of the song is different
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: from the first hook being shorter, the second hook adding
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: like a whole nother you know, refrain of that with
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: different lyrics, So yeah, I think that was one of
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: the things that made that song interesting. And also when
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: he brought that beat back after you know, he kind
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: of took it overnight and brought that beat back, it
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: already had these really interesting like progressions to it.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: He would add like this.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Kind of garage sounding kick over the regular kick, only
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: like twice I'd be like, well, that part was really cool.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Let's make that the post or whatever. Trying to just
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: go with the flow of how the beat moves, of
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: how it all evolves. I think that that's how the
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: lyrics kind of match it in that sense, like they
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: all just kind of evolve together.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, what about enough?
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I like enough to Both of these are no Sage
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: thing produced songs.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Both of those are enough.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I love the pre like I think I guess it's
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: maybe like a pre course on that all. I've really
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like like that was one of the moments on that
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: album where I'm like, like that maybe it's not meant
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: to be or you like it's like damn you really
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: singing on that problem came through.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I love that song because I feel like it has
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: this really interesting contradictory energy, like I love songs that
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: feel really happy and jovial, but then like talk about
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: something sad.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like that song.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: It's not that it's sad, but there's like a bitter
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: sweet energy too enough, which I love. I love bittersweet songs,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know, it's like the artist, I mean,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: the romantic in me loves like a bittersweet moment.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I am. I love that.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: It's about feeling maybe like you you gave it, you're all,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't enough, Like just knowing that you know
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: it's not quite good enough and feeling that like sense
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: of disappointment, but then at the end of the day
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: coming to the conclusion that you have everything that you
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: need and being thankful and having gratitude.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I think that that's what that song is. But it
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: sounds really happy, so like I love that.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like when I get your loans a little
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: bitter sweet too, and like the end, Yeah, it's kind
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: of like a like it really is a love song. Yeah,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it's like at the end those kind of like, well,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it's a little morphosic, kind of sounds like maybe things
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: weren't so it's perfect, you know what I'm saying.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's love ever perfect. It hasn't been for me, but.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Speak for ourselves.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: How much how much do you put your own personal
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: i mean, romantic love life into your music.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's always the core of the inspiration.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Like I would never sing something that like I totally
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: couldn't relate to. But definitely I can exaggerate on certain feelings, thoughts, emotions.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I can kind of pinpoint maybe how I feel on
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: a particular day and kind of go with that, you know.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I think emotions are also always changing and always evolving,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: So I think it's it's important to speak to them
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: as they come up and like make a song that
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: represents them and then move through it, go to, you know,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: onto the next. But I'd say the core of it
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: is always pretty real or something that I relate to.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: At least the idea of exaggerating it's pretty interesting. I've
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: never heard anyone.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of taking the feeling
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: and going deeper with it and expanding upon it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes you want to tell.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: A story and you you know, want to make it
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: even more real for the listener, And I think that
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: that's where like little exaggeration comes into play.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever found yourself having to explain things
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that you've written to like partners or things like that,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: because I've gotten you in trouble.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: In like cheeky ways but not in like real ways
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: if Yeah, not really, not not in.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Real ways, not in like okay not Yeah.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: No one's ever been like very upset, but people have
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: definitely been like, oh my god, are you gonna ran
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: a song about it? Me?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Like maybe maybe?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Or maybe you already have?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Right do you?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: You were?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You were mentioned? Three three three are kind of like
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: keeping the same more or less cast to collaborators. Yeah,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Past three, three three and Baby Angel, they kind of
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: sound like extensions of one. Yeah, like in like real
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: major ways. What was that a conscious decision when you
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: started making these sets of songs? Yeah, that you felt
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: like you you liked what you you did on three
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: three three and you wanted to extend it or.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I think I just was making I think they're all
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: kind of of an era.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: I started making three through three in the pandemic like
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty, and I just think like my energy shifted
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: since then, and it's just kind of been evolving, like
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: to me, three three three feels.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Like Baby Angel and Quantum Baby, but.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: It also doesn't feel as like as confident and as
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: resolved does these songs do.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: So I feel like this is again.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: It's not that it's they're different, but it feels like
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: an evolution to me.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: God, no, no, it makes sense. There's some some I
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: love that album though, three through three like a song
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: like Angels songs, amazing, out of control than you. I
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: want to let you go, but I won't have this
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: random question want to ask. I want to ask randomly
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: about Tom Hanks. I know you were you did the
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: motion motion capture for Polar Express. Yeah, but I was.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I was always curious. I couldn't find an answer.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Did was he there?
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Was he there?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah? We acted the whole Yes, he was there for
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I think it was like six weeks, eight weeks.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: It wasn't someone right.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Here, I was saying on the Paramount lot, literally here really, Yes,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: we acted the entire movie, but like they built the
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: entire set out of wires, so we all have these
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: weird suits. It was all in a sound stage with
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: wires and they dubbed over the whole audio. But we
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: had to the entire movie filmed it. Someone's got that, like,
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: someone's got the file of the real footage of us
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: with the funny suits.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: It's probably like on the DVD extras or.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Something deep somewhere in the vault.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: In the vault, what what was working? I mean you
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: were young that.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I was in fourth grade.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: I was nine.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was nine.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: It came out I think when I was twelve, because
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: it was very early technology. Took them a long time
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: to come to do the animation. I remember when I
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: was nine being like.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: It's not going to come out to do thousand fun.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: So far away it was.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: It was really cool.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: He was a professional, which was very cool to see
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: from early days. I feel like just witnessing professionals on
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: set gives you a lot of motivation, like how they
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: would treat the pas. And he bought a lot of
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: tickets for everyone. I remember thinking that was really impressive.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: I was like, whoa everyone A lot of people.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really fun experience. I was young, though.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I loved it though.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: I really enjoyed being on sets and doing all the things.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: How much do you still how much does that? Because
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you mean you did a good amount of acting when
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you're younger, Like, how much does that still feel like
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: a part of you, like something you want.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I use all the skills that
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: I gained when I was young, entertaining and acting for
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: what I do. Whether it's entertaining, whether it's how to
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: be a professional, whether it's just you know, how to
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: turn it on, how to turn it off. I think
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: there's so many ways that I'm still incorporating, like my
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: acting skills or you know whatever now. But music's definitely
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: my number one focus, and I want to return to
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: acting is something that I focus on probably later, So.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: It's still that kind of acting bug is.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Still Yeah, I mean I love it. I just love
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: being in front of a camera. I love putting on
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: a show. I love performing. So I would definitely do it.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: In your mind, who's the greatest performer who's like your inspiration?
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Dang?
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Well, music wise, I would always say Janish Action, She's
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: like up there, But then like, I don't know, Probably
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: my biggest inspiration is like my dad when it comes
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: to being a performer. He's like a he's a theater guy.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: He loves he loves the theater, he loves stage acting
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: kind of you know, initially was the person who like
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: brought me to all my auditions and things like that,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: So he's an inspiration. Did you we went to a
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: play last night?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Did you? Would you go see?
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: What is it called something a Strange Loop?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know it.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: I saw driving down the street. I saw all these
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: posters for it. It's like you don't ever notice something
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: until you see it, and then you're like.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: It's everywhere. So when you get a car in the yeah,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: the same car car? What just to follow upon that?
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: We can we wrap up? But like would your dad
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: being that he's like a teacher, and like would he
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: was he always kind of showing you, pointing things out
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: to you about performances or about films or plays, you
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: know what.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I was really I didn't like it.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Like every time he would try to help me with
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: my lines or like give me feedback or whatever I would,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to take it. So that's that's very
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: true of like who I still am today, Like I just.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Don't do well.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I can see it's even by the way I was like, no,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: would make you like.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Stop telling me how to read the lines?
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: You feel like it's in there somewhere.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: What the.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Whatever he passed over to you pass of course.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: Of course, like you're always listening secretly, I just don't
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: like being told what to do, makes.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Sense, It's very it's very Janet of you. Cool. Well, hey,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: thanks for doing this.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: It's incredible, incredible, see like you know that uh, the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: success that the singles happened, and that like I hope
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: people listen to the rest of the project and it's
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: like there's some incredible songs on both part one and
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: part two. So thanks for.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Doing this, Thanks for having me, Thanks che for.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Talking about her career and her new album Quantum Baby
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: with me, and also for indulging my question about Tom Hanks.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: If you want to hear a playlist of our favorite
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: TENAHA songs, check out our playlist at broken record podcast
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: dot com or in the episode notes. Subscribe to our
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: love this show and others from pushkin consider subscribing to
• 49:50
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• 50:02
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• 50:04
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• 50:07
  Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. What