Latest / Sid & Friends In The Morning / Joe Tacopina | Defense Attorney Makes His Weekly Friday Morning S&FIM Appearance
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: So let's go to Joseph right now, somewhere near Fort Bragg,
- 0:04Speaker 1: if not in Fort Bragg on this Friday morning. Joseph,
- 0:06Speaker 1: good morning, buddy.
- 0:07Speaker 2: How are you? Good morning, brother. I'm pretty good considering,
- 0:10Speaker 2: you know, you spend a night with a bunch of
- 0:13Speaker 2: Army guys, particularly Special Forces and Special Ops and those
- 0:17Speaker 2: sorts of guys, and it gets rough. They like the bourbon.
- 0:21Speaker 1: Oh, boy.
- 0:23Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Boy, oh, boy. They like bourbon. They really do.
- 0:30Speaker 2: Drink it like water, and then they get up at
- 0:32Speaker 2: 530 to do PT the next morning like nothing. So, yeah,
- 0:35Speaker 2: it was a great night because it celebrated one of
- 0:39Speaker 2: our great heroes, literally generational heroes. It was also a
- 0:43Speaker 2: bit of a sad night because the night should never
- 0:44Speaker 2: have been taking place not at this time, maybe in
- 0:47Speaker 2: 10 years from now or later. You know, somewhere down
- 0:50Speaker 2: the road, but certainly not this time, not one of
- 0:51Speaker 2: the most crucial times in this country's military history. But
- 0:56Speaker 2: it took place, and it was great. And, I mean,
- 0:57Speaker 2: that was a who's who of the United States Army
- 1:00Speaker 2: last night. I mean, every great general, General Miller, and
- 1:04Speaker 2: all these incredible ex-generals, ex-Delta Force guys. And then, of course,
- 1:09Speaker 2: you have generals like Pat Worth there and General Anderson,
- 1:12Speaker 2: these great leaders who are still– hanging in there as
- 1:16Speaker 2: our army seems to be becoming a bit of a
- 1:18Speaker 2: rudderless ship but you know here we.
- 1:20Speaker 1: Are here we are and uh donahue was uh he
- 1:24Speaker 1: called it quits last night he never should have like
- 1:26Speaker 1: you said and then your guy secretary driscoll he's about
- 1:30Speaker 1: to resign the end of next week that uh is
- 1:32Speaker 1: another horrible move for the army based on people that
- 1:36Speaker 1: i speak to especially you So Driscoll on his way out,
- 1:40Speaker 1: you know, I meant to ask you this last time.
- 1:43Speaker 1: Do you have anybody in mind who you'd like to
- 1:45Speaker 1: think will place Driscoll?
- 1:47Speaker 2: Oh, there's only one. There's only one. It's Mike Oberdahl.
- 1:50Speaker 2: Mike is currently the undersecretary, confirmed undersecretary, by the way,
- 1:55Speaker 2: of the United States Army. He's an obvious way to
- 1:57Speaker 2: restore some continuity here. Mike Overdahl is one of our great,
- 2:02Speaker 2: great heroes. He understands the institution. He understands modernization. Most importantly,
- 2:08Speaker 2: he understands soldiers. So if Driscoll leaves, not everybody. when
- 2:12Speaker 2: he leaves next week, which is a done deal. You know,
- 2:16Speaker 2: the only guy really to replace him is Mike Overdahl.
- 2:18Speaker 2: He was a pack helicopter pilot with Apache gunships. He
- 2:22Speaker 2: had multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was
- 2:25Speaker 2: a squadron commander for the Delta Force, and if you
- 2:27Speaker 2: don't know what that means, that's the pinnacle of our
- 2:30Speaker 2: Army right there. You know, he's married to a West
- 2:35Speaker 2: Point grad, three sons, and most importantly, he is loved
- 2:38Speaker 2: by the troops. Mike Overdahl is... It really would be
- 2:42Speaker 2: the only choice if we want to have any sense
- 2:45Speaker 2: of stability, calmness, continuity. And I think that should be
- 2:48Speaker 2: the case. He will be the acting because he's the undersecretary.
- 2:52Speaker 1: Right.
- 2:52Speaker 2: But the president needs to restore some stability there immediately
- 2:57Speaker 2: and really, really appoint him. Because right now, the United
- 3:00Speaker 2: States Army is becoming rudderless at precisely the moment America
- 3:05Speaker 2: can least afford it. We're fighting worse. We care for
- 3:08Speaker 2: next week literally without him. a Senate-confirmed Chief of Staff,
- 3:11Speaker 2: and a Senate-confirmed Army Secretary. That's not a personnel problem.
- 3:15Speaker 2: That's a national security problem in my mind. So we
- 3:18Speaker 2: have to make some moves here.
- 3:20Speaker 1: No, I agree. You know, you mentioned the Army Secretary,
- 3:22Speaker 1: and you and I have a dear, dear friend in common,
- 3:25Speaker 1: and he happens to own the Florida Panthers and a
- 3:27Speaker 1: couple of racehorses that won the Kentucky Derby, one of his,
- 3:30Speaker 1: Golden Temple, and the Belmont this year. His name is
- 3:32Speaker 1: Vinnie Viola. And people may not know this, but back
- 3:35Speaker 1: in 2016, Vinnie's a New York guy, a Brooklyn guy, Williamsburg,
- 3:38Speaker 1: President Trump offered Vinny the Army, the Secretary of Army position.
- 3:44Speaker 1: Vinny's a big-time West Point grad and well-respected, beloved. Now,
- 3:47Speaker 1: Vinny turned it down because he's got 19 other businesses
- 3:50Speaker 1: to run, but he was, you know, honored, obviously, and
- 3:52Speaker 1: very respectful in turning it down. But Vinny was offered
- 3:55Speaker 1: that position, which is a huge honor. Shows you what
- 3:58Speaker 1: kind of guy Vinny is. But you just mentioned the
- 4:00Speaker 1: guy now the Wall Street Journal is reporting. He also,
- 4:04Speaker 1: like Driscoll, will be stepping down at the end of
- 4:06Speaker 1: the year. What's that all about?
- 4:09Speaker 2: You know, again, I'm going back to the instability at
- 4:14Speaker 2: the top of the United States Army and at the military.
- 4:16Speaker 2: And again, I'll go back to Pete. You know, you
- 4:20Speaker 2: know how I feel about him. You know, I feel
- 4:22Speaker 2: about what he's done as far as a leadership voice
- 4:25Speaker 2: to me. it's inexplicable. And I'm telling you the guys
- 4:31Speaker 2: in the know, and I'm in the know, like what
- 4:33Speaker 2: it's so, but the guys in the know, you know,
- 4:35Speaker 2: I'm the United States army ambassador. Okay. That's my, my title,
- 4:37Speaker 2: my role, but, but the guys who are there in the,
- 4:41Speaker 2: in the fields and, and, in the war, on the grounds,
- 4:45Speaker 2: and at the bases every single day, the morale is
- 4:48Speaker 2: really being drained a bit, brother. It's being drained. And
- 4:52Speaker 2: that's the part, look, that we need to stop having
- 4:56Speaker 2: happen to us. We're losing generational talents. We don't replace
- 4:59Speaker 2: General Donahue overnight. You just can't do it. Fortunately, we
- 5:02Speaker 2: have General Norrie who stepped in for it. General Norrie
- 5:04Speaker 2: is a great, great general. You have General Pat Warwick
- 5:07Speaker 2: who's really the disciple of General Donahue. Pat Warwick is...
- 5:11Speaker 2: He's revered and loved. General Anderson, who's the 18th Airborne
- 5:16Speaker 2: Corps commander. I mean, you have some all-time greats still
- 5:20Speaker 2: in there, but we're losing them. And our enemies, Sid,
- 5:23Speaker 2: do not care about Washington politics or Pentagon infighting. The
- 5:28Speaker 2: enemy cares whether the United States Army is ready to
- 5:30Speaker 2: fight tonight. So leadership vacancies at the top of the
- 5:34Speaker 2: Army in wartime, to me, are unacceptable. And here we are.
- 5:39Speaker 2: So we need to— this needs to be taken— the president needs
- 5:41Speaker 2: to step right in.
- 5:43Speaker 1: I think he will. We've got a lot going on.
- 5:45Speaker 1: That's not an excuse. I love when people tell me, yeah,
- 5:47Speaker 1: we're busy. I don't want to hear it, okay? You've
- 5:49Speaker 1: got to prioritize certain things, right? Everybody's busy. Everybody's busy.
- 5:53Speaker 1: But you prioritize, okay? What's most important? And in this
- 5:56Speaker 1: case— with the president, Pete Hexeth. Does Hexeth know that
- 6:00Speaker 1: you go on this show and other shows? And you're right. No,
- 6:03Speaker 1: I'm serious. You're right. You know, you're not lying. You're
- 6:07Speaker 1: not talking out of line. You're giving out facts. But
- 6:09Speaker 1: does he know that you're pretty critical of him? I,
- 6:13Speaker 1: you know, never had a chat with him about it
- 6:15Speaker 1: and don't know.
- 6:16Speaker 2: And if he wants to have a chat, I'd be
- 6:18Speaker 2: more than happy to. I'd say the same thing to
- 6:19Speaker 2: his face that I'm saying on this radio show. As
- 6:22Speaker 2: I've said on this radio show for months because I'm
- 6:23Speaker 2: seeing what's happening inside our army. I love our army.
- 6:26Speaker 2: I love our soldiers. I love our troops. I love
- 6:29Speaker 2: our country. And I do not... want to see in
- 6:33Speaker 2: military nepotism, cronyism, favoritism. It doesn't belong here. Yeah, it's
- 6:37Speaker 2: all over corporate America. That's fine. That's part of our lives, right? Oh,
- 6:40Speaker 2: your buddy's son wants a job, whatever. Oh, the son
- 6:44Speaker 2: of the CEO gets a job.
- 6:45Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 6:46Speaker 2: Not here. Not here. Because people die when we have favoritism, cronyism,
- 6:51Speaker 2: or nepotism here. And so it just has to stop.
- 6:55Speaker 2: I don't know if he listens or doesn't listen. And
- 6:58Speaker 2: if it affects my standing, so be it. I will
- 7:00Speaker 2: always speak my mind and the truth. I don't take
- 7:02Speaker 2: any pleasure in saying this. I don't have a personal...
- 7:06Speaker 2: like for Pete Hicks as a person. I don't know him,
- 7:09Speaker 2: but I do know him as a leader, what he's done.
- 7:12Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, the people that were speaking last
- 7:15Speaker 2: night and as the night went on and the bourbon
- 7:17Speaker 2: continued to flow, people were very open about.
- 7:20Speaker 1: How they felt. Why do you think then that President
- 7:22Speaker 1: Trump has continuously, time and time again, even very recently,
- 7:27Speaker 1: defended Pete Hicks and kept him in that position?
- 7:30Speaker 2: That's one of those unanswered questions. I can't speak for
- 7:34Speaker 2: the president. I don't know what's in his mind when
- 7:36Speaker 2: it comes to that. He's a loyal guy, right? When
- 7:38Speaker 2: he thinks someone's loyal to him, he gives it back.
- 7:40Speaker 2: I think that's a large part of it. Pete Hegseth
- 7:43Speaker 2: will do what the president wants, speaks the language he
- 7:46Speaker 2: wants him to speak, and so on and so forth.
- 7:48Speaker 2: But by all accounts, I know firsthand that there's been
- 7:52Speaker 2: a little ruffling of the feathers of late between the
- 7:55Speaker 2: president and Hegseth because of the information that the president's
- 8:00Speaker 2: been given about our munitions being so low that the
- 8:02Speaker 2: president did not know about, but he could only rely
- 8:04Speaker 2: on what his people are telling him. And, you know,
- 8:07Speaker 2: there was some backlash against Texas. But, you know, again,
- 8:12Speaker 2: we have to see where this goes. I don't care
- 8:15Speaker 2: who's the person. I just care about the role and
- 8:18Speaker 2: the title and the position being operated in accordance with
- 8:21Speaker 2: our needs as in the United States Army, as the military.
- 8:25Speaker 2: And that's it. That's all I care about. But we
- 8:27Speaker 2: still have some greats. Again, Mike Overdahl is still there.
- 8:29Speaker 2: You know, you have general work. You have general leadership. Anderson,
- 8:32Speaker 2: all these guys, General Norrie, there's Mike Weimer, the Sergeant
- 8:37Speaker 2: Major of the Army, an unbelievable leader. So they're still there,
- 8:41Speaker 2: but we're losing our best. By the week, by the week,
- 8:45Speaker 2: I mean, there was another guy who just retired, another general,
- 8:51Speaker 2: La Camera. He just retired. He was a four-star general.
- 8:55Speaker 2: I mean, you know, these people are not easy to replace.
- 8:58Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time with him last night,
- 9:00Speaker 2: General Paul La Camera, four-star. He left the last year
- 9:04Speaker 2: and a half. I mean, you can't, you know, you just,
- 9:07Speaker 2: these guys, you don't replace them and that easily. And
- 9:10Speaker 2: we have to be careful. That's all I'm saying. And
- 9:12Speaker 2: the morale needs to be paid attention to because soldiers
- 9:16Speaker 2: need to have the will, the desire, and the belief
- 9:19Speaker 2: that our administrators are behind them a hundred percent.
- 9:24Speaker 1: And I'll get any of that. I got to tell you,
- 9:25Speaker 1: we're on twice this week. Is he so damn good?
- 9:27Speaker 1: Joe Takapino. Great on Monday. Great on Monday. And this
- 9:30Speaker 1: was amazing information. Not good. which only a certain amount
- 9:36Speaker 1: of people can get, and you're one of those people.
- 9:38Speaker 1: But I can't let you go. I can't, even though
- 9:40Speaker 1: this is great already, without asking about the biggest trial
- 9:43Speaker 1: in the country, in the world today, and that is
- 9:46Speaker 1: Lindsay Clancy. We did speak about this on Monday as well.
- 9:48Speaker 1: I told you. I think what she did was evil.
- 9:51Speaker 1: I'm not sure she is evil. That's up for debate.
- 9:53Speaker 1: But I do think what she did was evil. Now
- 9:55Speaker 1: they're saying today that with the verdict in the hands
- 9:59Speaker 1: of the jury, that there could be any one of
- 10:03Speaker 1: five different verdicts in this trial.
- 10:07Speaker 2: Five.
- 10:07Speaker 1: Manslaughter's in there. Murder one, murder two.
- 10:09Speaker 2: I don't even know what else.
- 10:10Speaker 1: So how really, how complex has this case, Takapina, turned
- 10:16Speaker 1: out to be?
- 10:18Speaker 2: Incredibly complex because it's not just a whodunit, it's a why.
- 10:23Speaker 1: Right, there's no whodunit. She admitted she did it. She
- 10:26Speaker 1: admitted she killed the kids.
- 10:28Speaker 2: Right, so then you now have to unbuckle all these
- 10:32Speaker 2: sort of experts and their testimony and who's more credible.
- 10:35Speaker 2: One expert says something, another says something else. And then
- 10:37Speaker 2: there's the common sense factor. You know, I always remind
- 10:39Speaker 2: jurors when I speak to them, I say, you know,
- 10:41Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, there is no such thing as jury school, okay?
- 10:44Speaker 2: You don't need any special skill set to be here.
- 10:47Speaker 2: All you need is your God-given common sense. And to
- 10:50Speaker 2: be fair and impartial. Don't come in here with any
- 10:53Speaker 2: biases or motives or leaning one way or another. Just
- 10:56Speaker 2: be open-minded, God-given common sense, follow the law and follow
- 10:59Speaker 2: the facts, and you'll do okay, ladies and gentlemen. Because
- 11:02Speaker 2: jurors are nervous that they don't know how to do
- 11:04Speaker 2: this stuff. There's nothing to it. But this case is complex.
- 11:07Speaker 2: There are five different potential words, but actually there are
- 11:09Speaker 2: six different outcomes, potential outcomes, right? Because you have to
- 11:12Speaker 2: also throw a hung jury in there. That's a sixth
- 11:14Speaker 2: potential outcome. But the five different potential, it's a first
- 11:17Speaker 2: degree murder, right? That's the top dog there. That's under
- 11:21Speaker 2: a deliberate premeditation. But there's an element of extreme atrocity
- 11:26Speaker 2: or cruelty. OK, that's life in prison without parole. That's
- 11:30Speaker 2: first degree murder. Second degree murder, which is still murder.
- 11:32Speaker 2: You know, they have to find a criminal responsible for
- 11:36Speaker 2: the murder, but doesn't find the element of first degree murder.
- 11:39Speaker 2: That would be the cruelty or atrocity element. That can
- 11:43Speaker 2: be life in prison, but there is the possibility of parole.
- 11:46Speaker 2: Then you go down the pecking order. Then there's manslaughter, right?
- 11:50Speaker 2: It's basically essentially the compromised criminal verdict manslaughter in any
- 11:54Speaker 2: homicide case. So, yes, she was criminally responsible, but the
- 11:58Speaker 2: culpability did not rise to murder. And that's 20 years
- 12:02Speaker 2: max on each count. The judge could also run them consecutively,
- 12:05Speaker 2: which for all intents and purposes becomes life. Then you
- 12:09Speaker 2: have not. Here's the one that I think is going
- 12:12Speaker 2: to be the one. Not guilty by lack of criminal responsibility.
- 12:16Speaker 2: I'm looking at the verdict sheet, right? So not guilty
- 12:18Speaker 2: by lack of criminal responsibility is basically the insanity verdict
- 12:22Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, okay? That's the key question, whether because of
- 12:26Speaker 2: mental disease or defect was she unable to appreciate the
- 12:31Speaker 2: wrongfulness of what she was doing or able to conform
- 12:33Speaker 2: her conduct to the law. So she doesn't get to
- 12:37Speaker 2: walk away. She just gets committed to a state psychiatric
- 12:40Speaker 2: hospital facility. And then, of course, it's not guilty. That's
- 12:43Speaker 2: never happening. That's just straight. It will go home. You know,
- 12:46Speaker 2: you're not guilty. I ain't happening.
- 12:48Speaker 1: Right.
- 12:48Speaker 2: Right. But I do think the not guilty by lack
- 12:52Speaker 2: of criminal responsibility is the one.
- 12:54Speaker 1: So do I.
- 12:55Speaker 2: I had it. That's where I go. It's not a
- 12:57Speaker 2: walk away, right?
- 12:58Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing, the only thing is, is
- 13:00Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think that's what they do too.
- 13:02Speaker 1: And I think that would be the fairest outcome. I
- 13:04Speaker 1: really do. The only thing I have to say to
- 13:06Speaker 1: you is where folks get upset is, but yeah, but Sid,
- 13:08Speaker 1: she actually asked her husband to leave the house because Right?
- 13:14Speaker 1: Go pick up this. Go pick up that. Because she
- 13:17Speaker 1: knew once he left the house, she can kill the kids.
- 13:20Speaker 1: So it wasn't like she's sitting there and she just
- 13:23Speaker 1: goes nuts. Right? So to a certain extent, that's a
- 13:27Speaker 1: little planned. A little. Or no.
- 13:31Speaker 2: Yeah, you can plan and still be... Insane. You can
- 13:34Speaker 2: plan and still have an insanity defense or a verdict
- 13:38Speaker 2: of this type. I mean, you can do it. Not
- 13:40Speaker 2: guilty by lack of criminal responsibility, because if you believe
- 13:44Speaker 2: the expert of the defense, that Dr. Resnick, who by
- 13:46Speaker 2: all accounts and reports, and I didn't watch every second
- 13:49Speaker 2: of the testimony of other things to do, but I
- 13:50Speaker 2: read that he was very good. And what he testified
- 13:54Speaker 2: to was that she was experiencing these things called command hallucinations, right?
- 13:59Speaker 2: And a delusion of influence. So command hallucinations, like someone's
- 14:03Speaker 2: telling you to do something and whatnot. Now, look, we
- 14:05Speaker 2: don't know. We can't get inside someone's brain. You know,
- 14:08Speaker 2: it sounds weird. Like the son of Sam. Remember the
- 14:11Speaker 2: son of Sam when we were kids?
- 14:13Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 14:13Speaker 2: The dog told him to do that. That's right. That's right.
- 14:17Speaker 1: And again, just last week, we brought this up on Monday.
- 14:20Speaker 1: This young man in Pennsylvania. who killed this beautiful young
- 14:24Speaker 1: girl on her way to Pennsylvania University on a soccer scholarship.
- 14:28Speaker 1: He said he heard demons, but he had way too
- 14:31Speaker 1: much planning. Way too much.
- 14:34Speaker 2: But yet he also got mad at her because she
- 14:35Speaker 2: said something. Right. I mean, I heard demons is a
- 14:37Speaker 2: great line in there when you have no defense at all.
- 14:41Speaker 2: You got caught red-handed.
- 14:42Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 14:43Speaker 2: You're disposing of the body, disposing of the evidence. You
- 14:45Speaker 2: call mommy to help. You know, you had a motive
- 14:48Speaker 2: because you got angry. You lost your mind. And you
- 14:51Speaker 2: did some horrible, disgusting, and despicable. So what are you
- 14:54Speaker 2: going to say? Self-defense? She was scaring me? No. You're
- 14:57Speaker 2: going to say, oh, I heard demons. Okay. Bingo. So
- 15:00Speaker 2: now we have insanity. So the problem with that is
- 15:03Speaker 2: it has to actually develop. forensically. It has to develop
- 15:06Speaker 2: by a medical doctor who's going to evaluate that. Anyone
- 15:09Speaker 2: could just say, I heard demons. There's got to be
- 15:12Speaker 2: outside corroborating proof that there really was something mentally off there. Here,
- 15:16Speaker 2: I think you have plenty of it, right? I just
- 15:18Speaker 2: think you have plenty of it. Because The state, the
- 15:20Speaker 2: Commonwealth has to prove criminal responsibility beyond a reasonable doubt.
- 15:24Speaker 2: And remember, that is a massive hurdle in our system.
- 15:27Speaker 2: So you could think that maybe maybe she was criminally responsible.
- 15:31Speaker 2: You could think I'm probably certain she was criminally responsible.
- 15:35Speaker 2: Maybe and probably certain in the criminal justice system equals
- 15:38Speaker 2: not guilty. Right.
- 15:40Speaker 1: Right.
- 15:40Speaker 2: Guilty. So remember that. So even if we think, oh,
- 15:43Speaker 2: come on. That's not enough. I mean, they have to
- 15:46Speaker 2: prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's any
- 15:48Speaker 2: doubt based on reason. If you have one of those,
- 15:50Speaker 2: not guilty of that count anyway.
- 15:52Speaker 1: Joe Tacopini, the absolute best. What an amazing appearance today
- 15:56Speaker 1: between the Army stuff and Lindsey Clancy. God, I love
- 15:58Speaker 1: you so much. Nobody better. But that was great, Joe.
- 16:00Speaker 1: Have a great weekend.
- 16:01Speaker 2: Thank you, God.
- 16:02Speaker 1: You are the best. How great was that? Joseph Tacopini
- 16:05Speaker 1: on the Army and Lindsey Clancy. That's my guy. Going
- 16:09Speaker 1: on 49 years. Two of us in the polyglot... the
- 16:13Speaker 1: old poly prep annual yearbook. You've heard this a million
- 16:16Speaker 1: times before. You're going to hear it again. Two of us,
- 16:19Speaker 1: it was either the sixth or seventh grade. I forget
- 16:22Speaker 1: exactly which one. Danny Pagliano may know. Gary Hanna may know.
- 16:27Speaker 1: We were voted, Takapina and Rosenberg, the two least likely,
- 16:35Speaker 1: least likely to succeed. And now he's the best defense
- 16:40Speaker 1: attorney in the world. and I'm the best radio voice
- 16:43Speaker 1: in the world.
- 16:44Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Sid and Friends in the Morning.
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- 17:08Speaker 3: and X. See you next time for a new episode
- 17:11Speaker 3: so you never have to wonder.
- 17:13Speaker 1: What the heck is going on here?