Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Daleks’ Masterplan (12/12)

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Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Daleks’ Masterplan (12/12) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to a hamster.
• 0:41
  A blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast, man.
• 0:47
  I've got good at saying that I wasn't terrible.
• 0:49
  You got to kind of see the early episodes.
• 0:50
  I was absolutely Shire saying that I'm here today after four
• 0:56
  episodes. This is not our longest run.
• 0:59
  We are doing five episodes of the Daleks master plan with the
• 1:04
  gorgeous. Jason Thompson, say hello Jason.
• 1:07
  Oh thank you. Hello!
• 1:10
  Jason. What, what occurred between the
• 1:15
  recording of all these episodes? Something something occurred.
• 1:19
  Can you recall? Between the recording of all
• 1:23
  these episodes. What occurred, many things
• 1:25
  occurred. What did you have in mind you?
• 1:28
  What? Specific thing?
• 1:28
  A great mind. I was gonna say we met but we'd
• 1:31
  already met other way. We had, we had indeed, but we
• 1:36
  did meet up. Again.
• 1:37
  Give me a. Yeah, but we can, we not spend
• 1:40
  enough time together. It was, it was not good.
• 1:42
  There was a queue around the block from Colin Baker, Nicola
• 1:45
  Bryant, signatures That was indeed, unfortunately, I was at
• 1:49
  the tail end of it. So, yes, for those of you
• 1:51
  listening wondering, what the hell were talking about?
• 1:53
  We ran into each other at the BFI, screening of revelation of
• 1:57
  the Daleks, the be foia, which still looks like the dystopian
• 2:01
  future from Frontier in space. It does, it's all cam clay.
• 2:07
  And it was quite fitting because that's also where we first met
• 2:12
  evil of the Daleks. I can remember the scene now.
• 2:16
  I was there alone at the bar. Handsome man came up behind me,
• 2:22
  but his hand on my shoulder, but it but enough about him.
• 2:25
  Then I turned up well as many many meetings.
• 2:33
  Well, that was that was a lucky one actually because I happen
• 2:36
  to, I tweeted that I was at the BFI for evil of the Daleks and
• 2:39
  Sly. Heart said to me, he messaged me
• 2:41
  take over fabulous. Look out for Joe.
• 2:44
  So I did and there you were, he's like that.
• 2:46
  Connective tissue, isn't he? That connects us all sighs.
• 2:51
  Wonder if I've known site for about 20 years.
• 2:53
  So he's great. We could spend the next 10
• 2:55
  minutes saying how fabulously is.
• 2:57
  But, you know, it's good but it was through it was because of
• 3:00
  him that I got involved in the first place because I listened
• 3:02
  to your podcast with him on the Leisure Hive, and that's what
• 3:05
  put you on my radar and then you made a call for people to get
• 3:08
  involved. So here I am.
• 3:10
  I remember, anyone doesn't like my podcast contributions to the
• 3:14
  hamster. Take it up with Cyclops.
• 3:15
  It's all his fault. Well, that no complaints so far.
• 3:20
  I'm dead, Jason. I believe you've got a question
• 3:24
  for me. I do we have now reached after
• 3:29
  11:12. Well, 12 episodes because we did
• 3:31
  mission to the unknown as well. We have now reached the climax
• 3:34
  of this epic story and I happen to think that this is one of the
• 3:39
  best final episodes in the whole run.
• 3:41
  It doesn't disappoint at all. So what I'm going to ask you for
• 3:45
  what are Your top three climaxes in Doctor, Who just to clarify
• 3:51
  that or before you go down a road that requires Fraser to
• 3:55
  step in with his stock am. Again, I was gonna say top
• 3:58
  three, you're gonna have to give me top 50 the other one Doctor
• 4:03
  Who. All right, well for all five
• 4:05
  listen to this. Okay, top three climaxes of
• 4:10
  Doctor. Who's I kind of had this
• 4:11
  conversation Ishq with Fraser the other day when I do remember
• 4:13
  saw the Daleks I think. case of Andrews, only for Yeah, Max I
• 4:24
  think curse of fenric for is a fantastic last episode.
• 4:38
  You know, I would say, right? Inferno six is a great time
• 4:43
  acts. That's a bit cheeky that though,
• 4:46
  isn't it? It is.
• 4:49
  But I know what you mean. Is a great climax of that, part
• 4:51
  of the story unforgettably? Good?
• 4:55
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:57
  And 30 can I cheat and say a new series episode by all means.
• 5:05
  Midnight. I think the climax of midnight
• 5:08
  is Unforgettable, when, when that nasty bunch of Try and drag
• 5:15
  the doctor out to his death. I think it's terrifyingly good.
• 5:22
  Excellent suggestion. Well, what about you, what about
• 5:28
  me? I think this one that we're
• 5:30
  about to do is definitely one of my top climaxes.
• 5:35
  Power of the Daleks episode 6. Oh my God.
• 5:38
  What was I thinking? Okay, yeah, that's a stunning
• 5:41
  choice. I think that's a fantastic way.
• 5:44
  But the war games, I don't actually rate episode 10 of the
• 5:50
  war games as much of a climax, it seems to slow right down and
• 5:53
  just trundle along. It's important for the history
• 5:56
  of the show. Absolutely, it's significant
• 5:58
  than but as an episode It just it just it doesn't have enough
• 6:04
  in it has a bit of random padding and wandering around a
• 6:07
  bit. And it's, it doesn't really work
• 6:09
  for me as a climax. Honestly, I don't even know who
• 6:11
  you are anymore. What you do love the war games.
• 6:15
  It's still one of my favorite stories.
• 6:18
  Have a real thing for the longer.
• 6:19
  Ones. Actually, what's your third
• 6:21
  them? I think I'd agree with your
• 6:25
  suggestion. Caves of androzani for whole
• 6:27
  episode is just or it's brilliant.
• 6:31
  It just there isn't a single box.
• 6:32
  I ain't X. There isn't one plot thread that
• 6:35
  isn't delivered. There isn't one character
• 6:38
  conclusion but isn't satisfy its its that's great.
• 6:43
  It is it brilliant but it's the it's the kind of all of them.
• 6:47
  The thing they all have in common is that the climax
• 6:49
  follows it's built up to steadily throughout the story
• 6:53
  and it isn't just the last two minutes of the episode where
• 6:57
  suddenly everything comes to an end and maybe Buddy hits a
• 7:00
  button that blows the enemy up or something like that.
• 7:02
  It's just everything builds up to that point and it gets
• 7:06
  tremendous amounts of runtime. It's great.
• 7:09
  You know what that, right, you know, I think might be the
• 7:11
  ultimate satisfying climactic moment in terms of having set it
• 7:19
  up earlier in the story and it delivers in the climax.
• 7:24
  What would that be? You know what, bargain, I think
• 7:28
  that might be the most important punch in history is just
• 7:36
  hilarious. Is that is that is, has good,
• 7:40
  taking something that's been a running gag and making it
• 7:42
  actually significant in the plot in the climax.
• 7:44
  Brilliant, having talked about great last episodes, it's no one
• 7:48
  interested in history. Fuck.
• 7:54
  You. All right.
• 7:55
  This is a staggeringly good endings.
• 7:58
  And I don't think this is kind of where I would have predicted
• 8:02
  this would have gone. I think, before I first listen
• 8:06
  to this, I didn't think 60s who was this nasty or could be this
• 8:10
  nasty. It is tremendously bleep as
• 8:16
  endings go and it is just about the only 60s example of kill
• 8:22
  them all at the end and you can see why Hartnell says, doesn't
• 8:26
  know. I think there's some evil
• 8:28
  creeping into the show because it is, it is unpleasant, It is a
• 8:33
  very down be ending and I think you mentioned earlier on
• 8:37
  possibly when we did episode 4 when Katarina died, there's a
• 8:41
  lot of, there's a long period of Bleak things happening because
• 8:47
  the massacre doesn't let the mood up at all.
• 8:51
  What is it? They say in the running through
• 8:53
  corridors? What we need, something lie,
• 8:54
  after all, this was the next episode called war of god, you
• 8:59
  later Well yeah, we see what it's all about.
• 9:06
  Let's see how this epic story which is a conclusion.
• 9:10
  I'm going to I'm going to before we go in.
• 9:12
  I'm just going to sing a couple of notes from a song that you'll
• 9:15
  know very well. You won't like it but you'll
• 9:18
  know it very well. It's been a long road getting
• 9:23
  from there to here. It's been a long time.
• 9:26
  Okay, right. Let's go wrong franchise.
• 9:30
  And actually I'm not that averse to Rise.
• 9:32
  I quite enjoy Enterprise or some walk or talk.
• 9:37
  We'll talk about that later because this is, this is Doctor
• 9:40
  Who not Star Trek. That's right.
• 9:41
  Although, if anyone is listening, I do advise you to
• 9:44
  check out Joe and Nathan's Untitled Star Trek podcast
• 9:47
  because that is fabulous. And I've enjoyed all the
• 9:50
  episodes. I've listened to on that
• 9:53
  darling. Honestly, I raised my coffee cup
• 9:55
  to you. Cheers.
• 9:58
  Now we Rowdy, but anyone who's watching or listening along in 3
• 10:02
  2 1, go. I'll see Jason, we were so
• 10:08
  lovely to each other them with border on Fleur and honestly,
• 10:11
  we're practically married by the end of this commentary.
• 10:14
  There is, it's taking a while to get started.
• 10:16
  There we go, here we go, here we go.
• 10:20
  Indeed, I once astonishing about the ending of, this is the final
• 10:26
  set piece. It is like 10 minutes long,
• 10:29
  isn't it? And it builds and builds.
• 10:32
  Like the suspenders just gets more agonizing as it goes along.
• 10:37
  Until Max is with a murder of somebody that we've come to care
• 10:41
  about. Yeah.
• 10:44
  It just goes. It's brilliant.
• 10:48
  I love it. I can't say enough good things
• 10:50
  about it. I'm almost speechless already.
• 10:52
  Have you got there yet? All that talking about memorable
• 10:57
  climaxes that have occurred in your life.
• 11:02
  I can feel Lucy's eyes. When it comes to the Daleks I
• 11:11
  think very often like there's some really terrible Achilles
• 11:15
  heel isn't there. I think about I don't like
• 11:18
  invasion of Earth. What is it?
• 11:20
  The core of the Earth or something?
• 11:23
  The Dalek invasion of Earth, the Daleks lose because they all
• 11:26
  grabbed the idiot ball and decided that the best place to
• 11:28
  have all their spaceships is right above the place where they
• 11:32
  drop the bomb. That's right here and overseas.
• 11:37
  I'd flown off anywhere else, they, they've been fine, but
• 11:40
  they thought they hover above the site where the Earth's cause
• 11:42
  supposed to be punched out of the, the planet that seems a bit
• 11:47
  dark in the Daleks isn't it? There's someone's just turned
• 11:49
  the leki off. Yeah, they just they lose their
• 11:53
  power but at least that's laid throughout the series.
• 11:56
  That's, that's part of the story, isn't it?
• 11:57
  Because in the part, way through the immobilized, one by
• 12:00
  insulating it, from the floor. So they make it a big thing
• 12:02
  throughout the whole. So that kind of makes sense.
• 12:06
  But like, like, this is the climax of this story.
• 12:09
  Is the activation of this weapon that we've been talking about
• 12:14
  now, for, how long's it been? In terms of the weeks that has
• 12:18
  been going out? Is it six months?
• 12:21
  The three months, he's nuts. It's been going out and the time
• 12:23
  Destructor was first mentioned in episode 2, right?
• 12:27
  So we've been talking about this thing for a long time.
• 12:30
  Is that a fair bit of buildup? Yep.
• 12:32
  And we saw in tested in episode 8, it delivers, you know my
• 12:37
  question to you is this is is there like a dialects Achilles
• 12:40
  heel? Because obviously the type of
• 12:42
  structure is it kills everything dialects as well?
• 12:48
  That is there an ending to a Dalek story?
• 12:51
  Does this more effective than this?
• 12:55
  Oh, that is a good question. I'm not really sure that there
• 12:59
  is I mean, they are They are kind of voice by their own
• 13:05
  petard because their own weapon is turned against them, but I
• 13:09
  don't think they plan for that weapon to ever actually go off.
• 13:12
  You know, I've been there just wanted to use it as a bargaining
• 13:14
  chip. I don't know possibly or they
• 13:21
  were just going to wipe out every and then swoop in but I
• 13:27
  mean like the nowadays we've got bloody Dalek sewers coming up to
• 13:33
  destroy. Don't even, don't even oh we're
• 13:38
  using a sodding microwave to defeat them.
• 13:45
  Well, that one, at least I can kind of agree with because it
• 13:48
  was a microwave combination oven and it was great heat.
• 13:51
  And it was jigged about a bit by the doctor and it just had to
• 13:54
  deal with one Dalek so I can kind of see where that came
• 13:57
  from. Plus it was a Doric that wasn't
• 13:59
  the typical Dalek, it had knocked together a casing out of
• 14:02
  ordinary earth materials so that kind of made sense.
• 14:06
  I think if it had been a microwave oven used to destroy a
• 14:08
  Dalek, it was actually a Dalek with its normal arm and
• 14:11
  everything. I might have had a bit more of
• 14:12
  an issue with it, but I'll tell you one that's really
• 14:14
  Anticlimactic is revelation of the Daleks where those other set
• 14:18
  dialects just swoop in and take him away.
• 14:21
  Yeah. Well what about Resurrection
• 14:24
  with the Medellin virus. Yeah.
• 14:33
  That's pretty grid. Again, that was something that
• 14:35
  was seated throughout the story. We knew it was there are.
• 14:39
  And so but it was a bit convenient that the doctor just
• 14:42
  turns up. No Tegan's.
• 14:44
  Pulled out a canister that will do never mind.
• 14:45
  We'll just check that on. There we go, that'll die.
• 14:49
  Well, let's go. That is like this, the doctor
• 14:51
  calls. It doesn't need a doctor sets
• 14:53
  off the time to structure and the doctor unleashes, the
• 14:56
  Medellin virus. Indeed, and also really is,
• 15:02
  yeah. I'll tell you what's a good
• 15:06
  ending the chase. I really loved that fight
• 15:09
  between the dollars and, yeah, that is.
• 15:10
  That is good. That is good fun.
• 15:13
  English is a fun little thing about.
• 15:15
  We just the Daleks whisper What are they saying?
• 15:22
  They just said, they just announced a chair.
• 15:24
  No, yes, you will have received. You can take the Christians, the
• 15:26
  Daleks do pretty much as he walks away.
• 15:28
  One of them says very quietly, but we are still to assist him
• 15:33
  so Whispering Garlic's. It's a bit like that are in
• 15:37
  Daleks in Manhattan, evolution of diet show when they're down
• 15:40
  in the sewers, and he looks over his shoulder to see her over his
• 15:43
  shoulder, to see if anyone's looking It's like plotting
• 15:50
  Daleks isn't it, you know? But it is nice to have that
• 15:55
  they've got a bit of character. Like, Maverick Chen is literally
• 15:57
  being a lord to his death now, isn't he?
• 16:00
  Oh, yeah, he is the bit where he finally gets goes too far.
• 16:06
  I've done it again. I live hope the Daleks I think
• 16:12
  we've kind of gotten to a point now where I was like I will just
• 16:14
  kill him already, he's only got the black garlic just said
• 16:18
  Arrow, that's has ended and the sound the music that goes with
• 16:22
  this. As the mood shifts is brilliant
• 16:25
  and the way it was described in in the novelization and I think
• 16:31
  it probably would come across really well on in is all the
• 16:35
  Daleks just silently. Looking at him while he rants,
• 16:39
  they don't react. They just look and there's
• 16:41
  something. Unsettling about that.
• 16:43
  I mean, I felt I went to the doctor who experience in Cardiff
• 16:46
  in 2017 shortly before it closed.
• 16:49
  And part of that involves going to what appeared to be an
• 16:53
  inactivated Dalek control room with a few dead Daleks around a
• 16:58
  human in there and you're going through this story that supposed
• 17:01
  to be doing finding something in the control room, the sound
• 17:05
  effects come up in the background, the lights go on in
• 17:08
  the Dalek eyes and they slowly start to move back to life even
• 17:14
  though I know in my head, you know, darling not real.
• 17:16
  This is just some animatronic a little bit of fun.
• 17:18
  They're having It's really unnerving to be in the middle of
• 17:22
  all these Daleks just slowly looking at you.
• 17:25
  So I think this would have worked really well screw, and
• 17:29
  they just haven't said anything. When I went to the doctor
• 17:33
  experience in college, they had like this Forest full of weeping
• 17:37
  angels and it was actors playing and there was just something so
• 17:42
  immersive about being in this kind of lightning strewn forest
• 17:46
  with these angels. Coming at me, I'm like I know
• 17:49
  Oh, this isn't real, but I'm terrified.
• 17:52
  Yeah, really them. He just tried to shoot the
• 17:56
  Supreme darling. That's not a move.
• 17:57
  You ever really want to do. No, he didn't want to do that
• 18:02
  and he's just declared that he's Immortal.
• 18:04
  So he's gone completely doolally at this point and I love the
• 18:07
  fact he tried. Of course, we've got the
• 18:08
  classic, the classic Trope here, the Dalek Supreme saying, you
• 18:13
  know, don't fire in here because you'll damage us and some of the
• 18:16
  controls it's like do they really have such poor Pray that
• 18:19
  they can't shoot one bloke without damaging the control
• 18:22
  controls. You, wash, these ladies.
• 18:24
  What's up, ladies? Have you, they've got terrible
• 18:27
  aim these darling sometimes. Yeah, I know.
• 18:30
  They have, they have got terrible, terrible aim but
• 18:32
  here's the doctor. He's popped back up.
• 18:34
  Yes, he's back. Ha ha, and he's going to
• 18:38
  activate the time destructive. I want to see at what point is
• 18:42
  activated and how long that lasts set pieces?
• 18:45
  You know, my God, look at the Reconstruction, are you got
• 18:47
  darling shooting down the corridors?
• 18:49
  What? There's my big Chen.
• 18:53
  He's been shot. Does he take a little while to
• 18:55
  go though? I think he needs like at least
• 18:58
  30 seconds. Oh no, he's dancing.
• 18:59
  He's done to date. Is that an actual still from
• 19:05
  from the show? Him dead.
• 19:07
  They on the floor. No.
• 19:11
  There we go. At the time.
• 19:12
  The structure is now active, and talking about the sound design.
• 19:15
  As we have previously, the sound effect for the time Destructor.
• 19:18
  I love it. And it back, I think in terms of
• 19:24
  sounded like this might be one of the best Doctor Who episodes
• 19:26
  like the momentum that builds. And you've got like that, don't
• 19:30
  you hear like all the wind coming in as well?
• 19:34
  Yeah. Yeah. like what you'd expect to
• 19:40
  do is to turn this bloody thing on, Yeah.
• 19:47
  So, is he basically admitting defeat?
• 19:49
  He's using a weapon, isn't he? He is, and he doesn't actually
• 19:55
  intend almost. He doesn't necessarily intend to
• 19:59
  get out of this alive. He's just got to stop the
• 20:01
  Daleks. And he's now getting them to
• 20:06
  dark, do what he says? So I do remember half the things
• 20:12
  he is commanding as hell and the same.
• 20:16
  He is brilliant. The tension that's mounting.
• 20:19
  Here is, is just superb and wish we had this episode.
• 20:21
  I know he said it's about all the previous ones as well, but I
• 20:24
  am really, really wish we had this episode.
• 20:27
  No. But you know what?
• 20:27
  I could lie could actually lose 5 and 10 and have this.
• 20:32
  Yeah, I know. I'd Five and ten have seven in
• 20:36
  this. Seven would be fun.
• 20:43
  But yeah, there's the earring, the sound in the background, the
• 20:46
  sound of the time Destructor that the slow build as they back
• 20:50
  out of the room with a Dalek in front of them as a shield.
• 20:53
  Yeah but I swear at one point, one Daleks voice, goes really
• 20:57
  low and they basically say back off like he's got the time to
• 21:01
  strike back off but the dogs are properly scared.
• 21:04
  I'll buy ya. I know what this thing can do.
• 21:08
  They built the bloody thing? And we have got to a point now
• 21:15
  where Sara has effortlessly slipped into this.
• 21:19
  Like, they are at Hardesty now aren't like, they are dead, even
• 21:24
  regulars when she dies it. I think it feels like a
• 21:28
  companion dies. Yeah.
• 21:33
  I know there's an argument as to whether she's a companion or
• 21:36
  not, you make your own call but it feels like we've got somebody
• 21:41
  significant. Yes definitely.
• 21:46
  I'm definitely better is that that deaf and the fact that the
• 21:54
  planet has been devastated and even the fact, the Daleks have
• 21:57
  been destroyed. It's all acknowledged in that
• 21:59
  final scene. Yeah, yeah, it's all good.
• 22:04
  I do. I keep I keep trying to watch
• 22:06
  the episode. This is my favorite episodes
• 22:08
  ever and I keep trying to watch it and then I'm going to
• 22:10
  commentary here on first time, talking to keep the memories
• 22:13
  talk, you know, the bit of the frightens me the most yeah.
• 22:17
  Is when they're outside and the planet is like, reverting back
• 22:22
  to whatever it was before the desert and the doctors going
• 22:28
  now. Let's answer me boy and he
• 22:30
  scream. His head off.
• 22:32
  He is at heart was playing skin. Always not scared very often in
• 22:36
  Doctor Who No, no. Very.
• 22:40
  Very rarely, which is one of the things that made power of the
• 22:44
  Daleks, such a big shock. When it came along watching.
• 22:48
  Patrick troughton's, doctor, be scared of the Daleks properly
• 22:51
  scared of the darling since like Hartman was never outwardly, so
• 22:55
  terrified of them and he kind of took that trou and didn't he and
• 22:59
  made that part of his character like he were, he allowed his
• 23:01
  doctor all the time whereas heart was just as kind of, you
• 23:05
  know, lapel clutching Mounting figure, you know.
• 23:10
  So if he's hysterically screaming get back to the
• 23:13
  Tardis, you know? I'm it's really effective.
• 23:17
  Is it is it gets you really get the feeling that the stakes are
• 23:20
  really high here. I don't think I could mean this
• 23:25
  more explicitly, but it's one of the few times when the shit has
• 23:30
  hit the fan. Definitely.
• 23:34
  Yeah, really has but I'm Stevens completely lost.
• 23:38
  He's got no idea what's going on.
• 23:40
  He's lost, Sarah, he's found his way back to the Tardis but he
• 23:42
  has no idea what's going on behind him.
• 23:45
  What's what's really effective with?
• 23:46
  Stephen is obviously Katarina dies, then Sarah dies, and then
• 23:53
  what's-her-name Chaplet the and Chaplet dies in, who gets his
• 23:58
  own. Little kind of little character
• 24:02
  Arc, doesn't he? He does.
• 24:04
  And, you know, when you, I mean, the events of the massacre on
• 24:07
  their own would be enough to justify his actions at the end
• 24:10
  when he storms off, but the fact that it follows, after all this
• 24:12
  stuff as well, the guy's been traumatized lost, so many people
• 24:18
  in the last, you know, in relative terms for his few days.
• 24:22
  I mean, these stories take months to play out on the
• 24:25
  screen, but in terms of the narrative, they've only gone on
• 24:27
  for a couple of days. With an I do another question
• 24:31
  for you then, because I listened to flight for entirety.
• 24:34
  And they make these very good points about sort of how
• 24:37
  fatalistic Doctor Who is this across these two stories and how
• 24:41
  without hope it is because of essentially in both stories,
• 24:44
  this massacre at the end and the doctor doesn't really save the
• 24:49
  day. Like, should to show be going
• 24:51
  there. It should this show about a hero
• 24:54
  through time. And space, be basically saying,
• 24:56
  well, the universe is shit. A lot of Die sleep.
• 25:00
  Well kiddos I don't think it should go there all the time.
• 25:09
  I don't think it would work if that was the show all the time,
• 25:13
  but I think every so often it doesn't hurt to go down that
• 25:17
  road because the world is shit sometimes.
• 25:22
  And so after a while, you know you do you do tend to get the
• 25:25
  whole Happy Ever After all the time.
• 25:27
  It's not realistic etcetera etcetera.
• 25:29
  I mean they you know in series 3 of Enterprise when they did the
• 25:33
  xindi arc for in like episode 2 Killed a program.
• 25:36
  That partly because lots of people said how unrealistic it
• 25:40
  was that in the Enterprise. This new ship that's going out
• 25:43
  into the universe. No one died for two years.
• 25:46
  Yeah. They got into all those
• 25:48
  dangerous situations and nobody died and that seemed incredibly
• 25:52
  unlikely. So they started killing people
• 25:54
  in series 3 but they also made a big thing of what a big deal.
• 25:58
  These deaths were so they can kind of handle it, really
• 26:00
  nicely. Where was I going with this?
• 26:03
  Yes. So, every so often, I think, but
• 26:06
  I don't think it's hopeless. In these stories because you
• 26:11
  know yeah okay people lots of people have died here but a
• 26:15
  bigger threat has been averted it has and there is like a
• 26:19
  moment at the climax where like doesn't the Dalek mutant move or
• 26:23
  they find you know it's like old life Springs out of all this.
• 26:27
  Yeah it's like the embryonic remains of the Dalek this
• 26:31
  reconstruction is amazing. I've got Sarah Kingdom being H
• 26:35
  to death and fall into the damp ground screaming.
• 26:38
  I've got the doctor Huh, you know, he's covered in sand all
• 26:42
  over the floor. The whole of the planets being
• 26:45
  turned into a desert from a forest, mmm, Howard.
• 26:56
  Not the noise. The sound.
• 26:58
  It's all just, it's absolutely superb.
• 27:02
  I love it. When Ian Levine says he was on
• 27:04
  the edge of his seat. I absolutely as a child watching
• 27:07
  this. I could just imagine, it's just
• 27:08
  most gripping thing you've ever seen in your life.
• 27:11
  I can't believe it. I mean, this is the, I think
• 27:13
  this is the first time that we've seen the doctor really,
• 27:16
  really in trouble. You know, he's been captured,
• 27:20
  he's been tied up, he's been frozen by the more oxen, the
• 27:24
  Space Museum and everything else.
• 27:25
  But now he's being affected. By the time Destructor, Sarah is
• 27:31
  disintegrating into a skeleton. So what's happening to the
• 27:34
  doctor? You know, it's Weasley.
• 27:36
  Look at that. Is these Grim, you know what?
• 27:40
  No matter what we're saying to just said, I think you're right.
• 27:44
  I think every now and again you have got a bit like a shock.
• 27:48
  You I've got to show that there are states that his adventures
• 27:52
  are otherwise you just Breeze through them all thinking or
• 27:56
  everyone's. All right, every weekend.
• 27:57
  You're not really got concerned, you know, I think every now and
• 28:00
  again, bump somebody off have a high State story, you know.
• 28:06
  Yeah, definitely. And who better, who better to
• 28:10
  have a high-stakes story within the Daleks.
• 28:13
  Okay, with a comedy and make it a big deal.
• 28:18
  Oh my god, look out. You know what?
• 28:20
  I've heard it this is like a retroactive bit of like fan wank
• 28:28
  but that this is the road to the doctor's regeneration now
• 28:31
  because he's aged a lot with the time structure here.
• 28:34
  So this is like we're on the path to him regenerating now.
• 28:39
  Yeah. Yeah if you say is it is
• 28:41
  retroactive. Lex was it wasn't planned at
• 28:44
  this point that regeneration was going to be a thing.
• 28:46
  But you know he does this. Then a couple of stories time he
• 28:49
  gets drained by the Sabbath a on the side and then he gets caught
• 28:54
  up in energy. Drain from Mundus.
• 28:57
  So yeah, it's all kind of does. It can be tied together in that
• 29:02
  way. I think, I don't know how you
• 29:06
  took hardest if I'm wrong. I think that this last scene
• 29:11
  between P of service and we were No.
• 29:13
  And the last scene in the massacre between Liam, are not
• 29:17
  be opposed. They're two of the best active
• 29:20
  scenes in the entire run of the classic series.
• 29:24
  I think it's great Drama. Oh, and they bring in Peter
• 29:27
  purpose, and William Hartnell works so well together.
• 29:31
  Don't know, the Daleks have arrived.
• 29:33
  They found the time Destructor. And again the chaotic sounds are
• 29:36
  back. And the best thing about the one
• 29:38
  of the best things about this is that the Daleks don't do this
• 29:40
  enough based scream when they die, yeah.
• 29:44
  Time destructive, to properly starts affecting them, they
• 29:46
  start screaming and that's brilliant.
• 29:49
  You just an equally terrifying because you just didn't do that
• 29:52
  that much these days. Next, I just know Douglas come
• 29:55
  forward. A direct the hell out of this
• 29:57
  like oh, he made those have the teddy bears territory.
• 30:01
  Flying in the web of fear episode 4 through very true.
• 30:09
  He just about made us Garrison, working Tara zygons just about
• 30:16
  just about. Yeah.
• 30:19
  But yeah, the sound effects that lightweight garlic that's being
• 30:23
  blown up wide. And this is master plan, is that
• 30:28
  sequence of a Dalek blowing up because it's in Doctor Who the
• 30:32
  60s by how stammers and Walker is one of the doctors, one of
• 30:35
  the pictures that's included. It's lovely.
• 30:38
  Because we lovely, it's terrifying because the time the
• 30:41
  structure is utterly indiscriminate.
• 30:44
  The good guys are dying. The bad guys are dying.
• 30:48
  Like, this thing is bad news, really is a terrifying weapon.
• 30:53
  Although the Daleks at this point, is they scream a kicking
• 30:55
  themselves, they didn't give it an off switch.
• 30:57
  I would say you do realize the Nia in Serie A season 3.
• 31:03
  It's like, The mythmakers, the Daleks master plan, the
• 31:09
  massacre, and the gun fires are all end with a load of
• 31:12
  bloodshed. Yes, it's great.
• 31:16
  Yeah, it does get a bit Grim. Does get a bit Grim, even the
• 31:22
  comedies. Although I think that's
• 31:26
  deliberate. Yeah.
• 31:29
  Here we go. Sudden silence, everything
• 31:33
  finished so is Kim board. Ed world now.
• 31:37
  Yep. If it isn't it exciting idea.
• 31:42
  Isn't it hot a potent one is is they this is I really like this
• 31:49
  ending. Its just how disorienting is
• 31:53
  after all that chaos. Who's you say it went on for
• 31:55
  about 10 minutes more than 10 minutes since.
• 31:57
  The time Destructor was switched on all that chaos and then you
• 32:01
  come out to silence? Yeah.
• 32:05
  That's really effective. That's another doctor.
• 32:07
  Say what a terrible waste, yeah. Yes.
• 32:14
  So bit of the doctors in human curiosity and perspective here
• 32:19
  because he's a oh look at this. Look, the it that's all that's
• 32:21
  left of a Dalek. Isn't that fascinating and
• 32:23
  Steve? All Steven can think of is look
• 32:24
  how many people have died. Why doesn't he lists?
• 32:28
  It all? Doesn't he say Katerina Sarah
• 32:31
  here, either? Sarah.
• 32:36
  Like, I never for when Purvis joined in the chase, this is
• 32:41
  where it had. Like he would literally be
• 32:43
  spitting some of the most dramatic moments in dogs.
• 32:46
  Hey, yeah. But very little a saw something
• 32:49
  in him, didn't she? And yeah, I think she had a good
• 32:52
  eye for casting. Oh yeah.
• 32:55
  Considering he was there as a comic relief character in one
• 32:58
  episode of the Chase. And on the back of that, he was
• 33:00
  invited to be a regular He's brilliant.
• 33:04
  He's absolutely brilliant. There's what ending, what an
• 33:08
  ending, what an ending 12 weeks, plus 1 for the mission to the
• 33:13
  unknown cut away that we got as well.
• 33:16
  What a fantastic climax to an epic story.
• 33:18
  It feels like an epic story with an epic climax.
• 33:22
  Yeah, yeah. An entire planet has been
• 33:25
  devastated by the Daleks month. Garlic thyme, Destructor.
• 33:29
  And actually the Daleks talking to me on it at the time, so
• 33:31
  their plans kind of backfired. But, you know, I think, I think
• 33:36
  this had to be a big, I knew it had to be a big ending.
• 33:39
  It had to be had after 12 weeks, it had to come to a huge fire
• 33:44
  Max. Definitely, they couldn't just
• 33:47
  randomly put a button and have all the Daleks blown up by
• 33:50
  something. He has about who's experienced a
• 33:53
  disappointing climax or two, that's incredible.
• 33:59
  Jason. Yes.
• 34:03
  Sorry you gotta ask me the classic question.
• 34:05
  Now on, you I am ruined everything I have, but I don't
• 34:08
  know how the hell you're gonna also this after 13 episodes?
• 34:13
  And would you care to give me 13 reason.
• 34:17
  I know, would you care to give me three reasons why I'll do
• 34:21
  three as well? The Daleks master plan is one of
• 34:24
  the best Doctor Who stories ever Well, one of them is that
• 34:30
  episode, we just watched it builds to a fantastic climax
• 34:35
  with a very small cast. So it keeps the focus very much
• 34:39
  in what it's not. It's not a big sprawling climax.
• 34:42
  It's a very focused, but intense Climax and I wish we had it to
• 34:46
  view properly, but it is brilliant.
• 34:49
  So that's one reason. Another reason is that, as I've
• 34:54
  said a couple of times during these commentaries It has no
• 34:59
  business working as well as it does.
• 35:01
  Mmm, you hear a 12-episode story and you think Jesus that's going
• 35:05
  to be interminably, boring. It's going to be so long and so
• 35:10
  padded and, oh, terrible. And it is padded.
• 35:14
  Undoubtedly, there's a lot of stuff you could just lift right
• 35:17
  out and shrink it down to the original six episodes.
• 35:19
  It was supposed to be no doubt about it but it's been
• 35:22
  constructed so well. That for my money, it runs
• 35:26
  better than some of the shorter stories, do sure.
• 35:29
  Yeah. And as I've said before it's 12
• 35:31
  episodes long but I can sit through the entire thing in one
• 35:34
  sitting and not get bored with it.
• 35:37
  And there are some four-part stories I struggled to do that
• 35:39
  with okay, as to, that's to the third reason is William Hartnell
• 35:48
  and Peter purpose. God damn it.
• 35:49
  You've chosen one of mine. Go on.
• 35:51
  Sorry, those two are fantastic Hartnell.
• 35:54
  Yeah. He flaps his lines occasionally
• 35:57
  but so what, you know, he's brilliant throughout.
• 36:01
  He's absolutely fantastic. I mean, that sequence in episode
• 36:04
  10 that we didn't really draw attention to switch, will have
• 36:06
  something else going what, where he stands up in front of the
• 36:10
  Daleks and says no escort. And on my terms and all that,
• 36:14
  he's absolutely fantastic. Hartnell is brilliant.
• 36:17
  He is so underrated generally in fandom partly because I think a
• 36:23
  lot of this stuff is missing. But now with and and for some
• 36:27
  reason, not much of it has been animated but we've got a few
• 36:31
  episodes of the reign of terror and 10th planet and they've
• 36:34
  animated Galaxy for now. But there are so much else to be
• 36:37
  mandated in hartnell's time. So don't think he's really
• 36:42
  received the attention that he deserves.
• 36:47
  And partly, because of that horrible thing received fan
• 36:51
  wisdom, where you constantly heard that he was fluffing his
• 36:54
  lines and stumbling through stories and being a crotchety
• 36:58
  old man. And there is so much more to it
• 37:00
  than that. And it's all in this story, all
• 37:03
  of it. You can see him being kind and
• 37:07
  compassionate with Katarina. You can see him being short
• 37:09
  tempered with Brett. You can see his comedy acting in
• 37:12
  some episodes, when he's interacting with Peter
• 37:14
  Butterworth as the meddling monk.
• 37:17
  He's brilliant. So go for it and Peter purpose
• 37:21
  works so well, within its brilliant.
• 37:23
  That's my three reasons now, one of yours.
• 37:27
  Well, my first one is Douglas Canfield who heroically holds
• 37:34
  this in Tire epic together and I feel like this could so easily
• 37:40
  have gone wrong and that's not entirely down to Douglas
• 37:44
  Canfield. I think he was probably very
• 37:46
  skilled with the actors. He was extremely skilled
• 37:49
  technically and he was just some very creative director and you
• 37:52
  can see that in the episodes, they exist which aren't the best
• 37:55
  of episodes, but they still look amazing.
• 37:58
  They look amazingly good at some of those set pieces are are
• 38:00
  terrific. My second is Is I'm going to say
• 38:06
  the versatility of the Doctor Who format which is exemplified
• 38:11
  beautifully throughout this story, past present, future
• 38:16
  horror humor, You Know, Drama character.
• 38:20
  It's just got everything, like the fact that doctor who can do
• 38:24
  everything and it does do everything within this story, is
• 38:28
  something to lessen Triumph, basically.
• 38:31
  And with third one or you, Over the best ones, you know, get my
• 38:38
  third one will be 0. Yes, okay, yeah, I'm going to
• 38:43
  say the two deaths of the companions, which I think are
• 38:49
  like the most dramatic wake-up calls of the era.
• 38:56
  Like, I think, we, for up until this point, everyone's gonna be
• 39:00
  all right. In the end and suddenly the
• 39:04
  Universe is a much darker place because to Doctor Who companions
• 39:09
  have died within the same story. Yep, I would agree with that.
• 39:14
  I think that's a fantastic one. I think that's one of the
• 39:16
  reasons. Well undoubtedly that's one of
• 39:19
  the reasons why this story is so legendary.
• 39:22
  It's not only is it the longest single story in the whole
• 39:26
  history of Doctor Who But it has these big things that happen,
• 39:32
  these two big events that the death of Katarina and the death
• 39:34
  of Sarah. Not.
• 39:37
  Oh yeah. Longest.
• 39:39
  So another one, another one for, you know, the reason the black
• 39:41
  garlic. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 39:43
  Characterization, and dialogues in the black garlic in.
• 39:45
  This story is absolutely superb, and he still has one of my
• 39:49
  favorite Dalek lines ever, which I'm still hoping I'm one day
• 39:53
  going to get into an actual conversation with somebody when
• 39:56
  I'm really pissed off with them. What's up?
• 39:58
  Make your incompetence sound like an achievement.
• 40:03
  I love that. Not all right, work.
• 40:07
  That's a great line. Well, I'll tell you what.
• 40:10
  Not only is it the longest Doctor Who story is also the
• 40:14
  longest handsome of blunt penknife commentary.
• 40:18
  I'm so glad you and I have gone on this Voyage to go by.
• 40:21
  It's been an absolute tree, it's been brilliant.
• 40:24
  I've loved every minute of it. Next time we probably will go
• 40:28
  flying a bit shorter because there ain't nothing.
• 40:30
  As long as this will talk about that off.
• 40:33
  My Jason and thank you so much. It has been so So much fun to do
• 40:37
  this. Thank you.
• 40:39
  It's been fabulous and thank everybody out there for
• 40:41
  listening to us and sticking with us for this long for
• 40:45
  episodes of Oz, ask their pleasure.
• 40:47
  I'm telling you, I hope so.