Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / Overcoming Childhood Trama

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Overcoming Childhood Trama · Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!

• Peter: Welcome another exciting episode of Pete Pete: Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. Peter: Friessing Society. Before I introduce my guest today, you all should go definitely check out my friends from PsychPAL. Use the description in the link to this episode and go try it out. And then if you really like it, guys, I did some work for you. I got you a little something. 20 % off your first month's subscription. I know, I'm a great guy. Just use Pete at checkout for that. With that being said, today's guest is, let me tell you right now, has an interesting story and an interesting past. Please welcome in Echo. Echo, why you say hello to everybody? peter: Show ⁓ natalie: Hi guys, I'm Etta from the UK. I've got bit of a throat right now, but I'm just privileged to be here with Pete and have this opportunity to have a chat. Pete: It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. Peter: Definitely, definitely. Well, I appreciate you coming in. I know you have a very interesting story to tell, needless to say. So wherever you want to start, give me a little more feedback about you. I know you're a published writer for books, you life coach, lawyer, business owner. Like the list goes on, man. Like you've accomplished a lot though from what you've gone through though. natalie: Definitely. ⁓ I'll just start with about my journey, ⁓ just a little bit about me. So my journey started in childhood, okay? So I grew up in a really abusive home. And although the domestic violence was not about me, it wasn't directed at me personally, ⁓ it completely shaped my environment of growing up. ⁓ So home never felt emotionally safe. It was never a safe place to be. ⁓ It was a place where nobody was allowed in the home, so there was no friends allowed in the home. We used to take two, I had three siblings, we used to take to sleeping in our clothes and socks and shoes because we didn't know whether or not we would be going, getting taken by the police that night and placed in foster care. ⁓ So it was very unstable. ⁓ And when chaos surrounds us, think the body learns to normalize ⁓ fear. So my upbringing was one of, I can't even say, the only nice thing I can say about it is I was loved by my siblings and my mum. So I've got no good childhood memories, there's not one. Basically, alongside that, there was a lot of abuse. I suffered a lot of abuse. was the youngest stepchild. And it was only as a sort of we were older. And obviously all my siblings moved out early and I didn't understand why, you know, a child shouldn't really leave the home until sort of you've got money together and... Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: you've got money for a house or, you know, to go and do something. All my siblings had left before the age of 16. Like they'd all left the home. They'd all either moved in with a boyfriend or whatnot. So for me, I was in and out of care. So I was kind of like a left, left me mum's home. But before that happened, basically, the abuser, Peter: Yeah. natalie: I'll say, I can happily say that now because I've gone to homeotherapy and stuff, so I'm happy to talk about it. Out of all of us children, was obviously it came to light what had happened because my sister found my diary, okay, and everything was in my diary. I kept a diary, a diary van prank, okay, everything was in my diary. So my older sister found it and obviously the police were called and whatnot. So. Peter: ⁓ no. natalie: He was no longer part of our family at that point, but he was arrested, obviously. The case went to court. At the time, there was not just me, but there was my three siblings. There was his own daughter, his ex-wife, all against him for all the same things, for sexual abuse, okay? One was raped inside my rich, which was his ex-wife. ⁓ So a couple of people had gone before me into court. I took my turn to take the stand. And obviously I was a meat child at this point. If I'm not mistaken, I must have been about 12, I think, 13. And I started to testify. I got up on the stand, swore on the oath and things. And after about 20 minutes, and I believe before I got up, everyone on the stand, he was laughing at He was smirking and was laughing, thinking, you know, whatever kind of thing. I think I'd been up for about half an hour maybe. And then I'd seen him talking to his barrister. And next minute it was adjourned for like time out. ⁓ And the next thing I knew was all charges except mine had been, he will plead guilty to my charge only as long as all the others get left on file. ⁓ he got a life sentence for my charges and four years to run concurrent, ⁓ and a lifetime on the register. We didn't have a choice in that matter, to be fair. It was taken out of our hands. ⁓ and I, I do believe that up until a few years ago, I think I was kind of blamed not for what has happened, but for the fact that only my case was heard. So. you went to jail, but you went to jail for me. And it was like they didn't matter kind of thing. So I think some of my siblings held a of resentment in that respect, which was kind of hard for me to deal with. I went into the care system. It was voluntary, by the way, that the care system wasn't removed. I had a good relationship with my mum and then it went sort of up and down and I'm closer than ever to an hour. Went into the care system, went a bit off the rails and it was a trauma. To be fair, it was the trauma. Because I think as a child, you don't understand how to process trauma. It's not a thing you don't know what the word actually means. All you know is you've got all these sort of emotions going on and all these sort of like nightmares and these triggers. You can't identify them. So from the care system, I got my own place. I had a social worker. I got my own place when I was... Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: just before I was 15 and it was a flat. Absolutely loved it to be fair. And then what did I do then? I had my daughter at the age of 18. That was my sanity. That was my sanity. That was my turning point. That was my turning point to get in here and resolve everything. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot though. mean, you went through a lot as a kid though. Did it affect your relationships though going forward? It had to. Every time you got into a certain situation, something had to trigger you. Your relationships had to be really hard for you at that point for everything you've gone through, even the assault because it's like now you get in those certain situations and you get triggered back to that moment. Did you have a lot of PTSD moments like that? natalie: Yeah, I think for me, it was not feeling like I was sort of good enough kind of thing. So I think for me, it had a major hit on my self-esteem and my confidence as a female. ⁓ a sort of, I didn't really, to be honest, I've only really had, I'd say like my one, I'd say three serious, serious and the third one. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: I've been married to for over 20 years. And he takes me for all my flaws. He sort of dealt with everything with me. So I even married him again last year after 20 years. But yeah, I think that it was little things triggered me. I could be in a supermarket and I could smell a certain aftershave, which I can still name. was called Aramis. And I would literally freeze. Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. natalie: because it just brought a lot of things back. It's like a trigger for me. It was a trigger if I seen like males with certain type of moustaches would be a trigger. If I seen a certain car, that would be a trigger as well. And I didn't know these were triggers until I actually went through years of counseling and therapy. I didn't know what these were. I just went into full blow panic mode, panic attack mode, you know. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: and the breathing, I couldn't breathe. It was a full on anxiety attack and it was only when I had my daughter. I thought I need to address this now ⁓ because it's messing with my life. ⁓ And when I had my daughter, was no longer with my daughter's father. And it was really brutal to be fair because I went into like this overprotection mode. ⁓ Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. natalie: because what obviously I had experienced as a child, I felt like, well, nobody sort of getting near my child. you know, so, but I didn't want to, I didn't want to kind of like have the same regimented rulings what I lived by as a child, because our childhood, it wasn't just, I didn't know what your childhood was like, Peter, okay. I didn't know whether you were a lot of friends in the house or whether you have to do things. Our childhood was extreme. And when I say extreme, it was we'd get up before breakfast, OK? We would all have to clean the house. The house was spotless, by the way. This would mean before school, go and clean the kitchen, go and clean the morning room, living room, polish, poof, mop, everything, OK? On a weekend, our time, we had this bathroom and it was ceiling to floor, black mirrored tiles, ceiling to floor. We would have to clean every single time. If there was one streak on that tile, they would all have to be done again. Okay. Some days we would have to do everybody's ironing. As a child, it's not what you do. Then, we, like my brother was a tear away, okay, he was an absolute tear away. And I don't blame him obviously because he went through things as well. But if we were, if we were naughty and I don't know whether this goes, I speak about it like it's normal. I had this a few weeks ago on holiday. Peter: Yeah, no, you're good. natalie: And we were talking about ⁓ the cane at school when you used to be at school and it was acceptable for the cane and stuff. And I just come out in conversation like in our house, if we were naughty, we would get sent to shop and it was a little shop and you have to, we have to go and buy a plant cane. You're the black thin canes what you hold plants up with. One of them. And we knew when we were getting back, we were getting beat up with this cane. And I can laugh about it now because Peter: Yeah. natalie: I don't think we were the only family for that. think a lot of families, my friends used to get the Barbie doll, which would have hurt a lot more. And I was blessed because I didn't really get the cane that much. I think I only went to the shop about three times. But that was the kind of thing. And I always swore after having a daughter, my home would be an emotionally safe space for my kids. Open door, emotionally, emotionally safe environment. Peter: Yeah. natalie: No raised voices, no arguments, nothing. And I've always maintained that, to be fair. So I'll let you talk, not take any of you up. Peter: Yeah. No, you're good. No, listen, man, because it's so interesting because, you know, it's a good question. You think about it because like, you know, your relationships to that point had to be interesting because like everything has happened. Your perspective on things is way different though. But now you had a daughter and now you've got to worry about like, what if it happens to her? You know what I mean? Like that's obviously your first thought coming to your mind. It's like, oh, hell no, I'm not letting her go through the same things I went through. I know when we were kids. You know, we got the belt and you know, stuff like that, you know, but you knew like when you got a couple of swats and you're good to go. My mom on the other hand, she was, she was really abusive at times. Like she beat the, beat this tar out of me one time. I remember, I don't even remember what it was, man. She was like stopping me, like she's trying to put out a fire. I do remember that much, you know, me and her never really got along because I was always, she was going to try to control everything and I never really went along with that. So when I moved in with my dad. because she dropped me at his doorstep one day. She got mad at me and just took me over and dropped me in the front doorsteps and left me there. So I was abandoned. So, you know, I was left alone a lot of time by myself though when I was younger because like my dad was at work and then his girlfriend, he was staying with the time she was, she was working too. So I spent a lot of time. like I walked to school cause the school wasn't too far away. So I was in junior high when this first happened. So I'd walk down to school and come back home and then have a lot of time to myself. And then we moved around a little bit. Freshman year of high school, I had more time to myself. I didn't really know many people. I didn't really talk to many people because I was just like, okay, well, I don't know how long I'm gonna stay here. So it's the point of making friends. It wasn't until sophomore year when I had more time that I made a lot more friends and I talked to different people. ⁓ I started dating people and did more activities. I didn't really stay home too much. I usually hung out with bunch of friends. and things like that. But it was hard at first because it's like, don't know how long I'm going to be here in these situations, you know, because he his job at the time had us moving a lot, doing different things because he was a commercial printer. So he kind of go where where the jobs are paying kind of things like that, you know. But yeah, we we got we got asked by this kid a lot of times like my mom was the one that she was the most aggressive one to my dad would yell a lot, though, but it's different. Like you could tell how mad he was based on what he was saying to you. If he's real quiet, you knew you were in trouble. You know you were in for an obliteration because he was just like real quiet. He's talking to you. You know, you're my mom. On the other hand, she was more of a yeller than she yelled by your first name. OK, you're going to yell a little bit middle name. Maybe get a pop first middle last name. Oh, you better get ready because you can hear it coming out like stomping on the stairs. And I can remember she just come crush up those stairs, whip over the doors and start yelling at you like, you know, Malcolm in the Middles, mom, just start yelling at everybody. Like it was just, yeah, yeah. You know, and I had a brother that had, oh, I have two brothers now, because my older brother, was actually my sister at time, he's transgender. So that was interesting too when that conversation came up, because my mom wasn't really accepting of a lot of things. Like she told me when I moved out and I didn't want to come back that I needed therapy. And it was really that she had coping issues, not me, because I was just done. Like at that point I was just finished, you know. And then later on I find out, you know, when I did a star chart reading that I'm an Aries moon, which makes sense why I cut people off instantly. Like if I'm done with you, that's it. You get the chopping block and you ain't coming back. Like I'm done. You know, and it makes a lot of sense though. Why, why do those kinds of things, you know, but like my, my fear of abandonment triggers a lot of times too. Anytime I feel like I'm in that situation, I go into hyper, I get into this hyper mode. I getting real upset, get real aggressive, get real angry and I start pushing people away and things like that too, you know, and I have three daughters of my own and those poor kids went to hell with me. Cause I always denied it had a problem. Like I didn't think I had an issue. didn't realize that's why I was angry all the time was that just that moment I kept triggering back to, you know, and their mom and I were just the worst people to be to get around because we were so toxic for each other. She literally like knew how to trigger me. So then she triggered me and then I get mad at them and I'd be verbally abusive to them. You know, and you're like, was, I was physically abused too. I'll be honest with It was, it was not a great childhood from. We are in talking terms now, which is a lot better because I'm in a better place. I'm a way different person than I was before, but I was a horrible person to those poor kids. But, you know, it was just like, it was just one of those things you went through and like you just denied that you had a problem for a long time, you know, and it was hard because I was drinking. I wasn't sleeping a lot. I had their mom constantly triggering me, you know, and I didn't think like these were normal. I think there was anything else about it because I'm like, you know, you get angry about things, but I got unusually angry in certain situations where I just go flying off the handle. You know, and before I started this show, I went to therapy because I was like, had a moment with my wife at the time where she had said something to me and all of a sudden I just went right off the rails for no reason. And I didn't know what triggered me about it. You know, and I was like, man, there's something right here because I'm just flying off the handle, you know, and things like that, too. So when I went to therapy, I found out that I have anxiety and then my anxiety feeds my depression, which that's always a fun thing to do because during the first season of the show, no one really knew. how bad I was struggling. Like the room I was recording in, I never left that room at all. I stayed there all day. Like literally until my wife got home around like four or five, she got home like five o'clock most of the day usually. I'd come out of there and act, back in the other room, act like I've been sleeping in the other room because I didn't want her to know because I was just struggling that bad. You know, people are like, Hey, did you sleep? Wasn't sleeping either. Cause I was recording the show five days a week. I'm recording a new episode every week and I was doing live episodes. You know, and then I had to pull back and I moved to bulk recording now, which is so much better for me. So I record this show like every Mondays and Tuesdays. I'm using like five to four to five people, the most ever done with seven interviews. I mean, I was caffeinated beyond belief, like three Red Bulls in and I'm going. I'm humming at the speed of sound. And people like I told one of my guests that they're like, how many of those have you had? Well, I think I'm at number three right now. He's like, are you OK? Are you are you are you feeling all right? natalie: Thank You Peter: Dude, I'm feeling great. What do mean? I feel like I could fight God at this point. He's laughing at me like, what the fuck? But you know, it's been an adventure since day one of doing this thing, though. But it's the evolutionary epithel, because I went from where I was to where am now. And I've learned so many things along the way, like I'm energy sensitive, I'm empath. And then when I got into the second half of the season, We got into a real sick dicky situation. A guy in the beginning of the year, the first year, like 2025, right there in January, he was on the show and he was talking about his suicidal ideation. So this is kind interesting how this came up. 15 minutes into the episode, he goes, hey, can I tell you something? I was like, yeah, why not, man? Go ahead. And he starts talking. He's like, well, this morning I had thoughts in my head. I'm sitting at the edge of bed with a gun in my hand. And I'm just like, oh, God, we are going to get canceled at this point on YouTube. natalie: Wow. Peter: YouTube's going to ban us. I'm like, this is not good. And I'm like, keeping my cool. But in my head, I'm freaking out like, oh, God, this is happening for real. Because this is the first time we got into this subject, you know, of like real deep into this conversation, you know. And I was just like, oh, no, this was just like, oh, you know. But the reaction I got it from was so great because people are freaking out going, oh, my God, is he OK? I'm like, yeah, I talked to him already. He's good. You know, people didn't really understand. Suicide 80 ideation. They still really don't. I think a lot of people don't get how it works. You know, like his thoughts. But this guy was really on the edge. Brian was actually the guy's name. He was on the show. He was he was literally teeter-totting on edge. You could tell he was like upset about something. So apparently Brian had lost his friend in December to suicide as well. His friend ended up taking his own life and he'd been struggling with this whole thing. And I don't think he really told many people about it. It's like when he talked after he talked to me about it, he seemed very very easy and relaxed and he got it off his chest and things like that too. And that was like the turning point for me on this show. Cause I was like, you know what, may I start talking about my own thing because I'm a, I'm a two time survivor myself because you know, and most recently was the last time me and my, my wife and I, my current, like I'm currently in middle of divorcing, but we, we had talked about it and she said to me, her exact statement was make me the 13th reason why now any, then if anybody doesn't know what that references that reference that Netflix show 13 reasons why. the one where they had to change the ending of that show because it was so graphic because you're watching this girl cut her wrist in the bathtub and you're watching it. There's no video cut away, nothing. You're watching her do this right there in the tub. And it was so traumatizing to people. Like, you you should already seen that because it was like, in the beginning, was like, if you have certain conditions, you should be watching this show. like, okay, this is not good. Okay. So we get to the last one and you're watching her and she's watching the final scene because you see the cut scene in the beginning where she's in the tub. You know, in the first episode you see, but you don't know what happened and why she did it. But now you start replaying the different tapes. had 13 tapes, you know, and all the tapes gave a different reason. What was her reasoning behind everything? And piece of it just kept piecing it together till you got to the end of it. And when you're watching it, Netflix had to pull the show and edit that part at the end because it was too graphic for a lot of people to watch. And I'm like thinking like when you first put that out, you had to think about what you were putting out there was that real that people are watching someone commit suicide live on a show. Even this is Netflix. I get this is a paid for subscription based thing. Like, you know, HBO always had always pushed the limits. That kind of thing for us, you know, Cinemax and all these other things. But this, think, went a little too far for people because, you know, they were like, hold up. This is really real. This is girls really doing this thing. And I'm watching it and I'm just like, yep, somebody's going to get upset with this. And lo and behold. Somebody got upset with it. Everybody was going outrage, getting mad. But it's like, this is a real thing that happens though. People don't, people don't know how to handle this subject. I get it at the same time. But my ex told me that that's what she said to make me the 13th reason why. So she said, because I told her how I had thoughts, I had a plan. I was right there, close to it. And I was seconds away and then something stopped me. And she was like, that's what her response was. And then she told me, well, this is not a good time to talk about it. Like, we could repend this to another situation. It's like, Yeah, see, the great thing about it is it's it's not really a choice of when it happens. sometimes these come up in the most opportune times that people don't have time to talk about it. But at the same time, it's a real issue. Someone's telling you they're having these thoughts. I think the first thing you say to them is, you OK? And then you listen to what they have to say. Like, don't turn them away and go, well, you know, we'll reschedule this for another day, you know? And it doesn't work like that. natalie: No, it's about the moment, isn't it? And I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. And I think as well, when you just touched on that being a male as well, I started this platform for me was about offering support and healing for other people, followers on the platform, on TikTok. And to be honest, when I opened it, was just, it was to basically put me books out there. That's what it was, because obviously I've written four books. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: and it was a platform for that started in October. I mean, I didn't really do much with it, to be honest. put an odd quote out of my book book or a little picture from the book, things like that. ⁓ and it was only, I say five weeks ago when I really thought, you know, I built my own website. Okay. That is a healing. it's a healing website. So on that website, I have accounted for sort of more or less everything I could think of. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: So I've built it in hubs. So you've got a mental health hub, which covers every aspect of mental health, down to kinds of like the ADHD side of things, the ASD, the depression, the anxiety, the loneliness, the grieving aspect of mental health, BPD, PDA, all that kind of thing is to be found there. Not only do you find all the information for all those things. There's also interactive tools as well. Now I've built all this myself, okay. So I know everything what has gone in it has come from me. Okay. I've written everything. Everything is mine. ⁓ So there's interactive tools. You can write yourself a letter. You can do, you can do like, and how your mood is today. And it asks you so many questions. It'll give you little ideas of what to do to improve your mood, all things like that. Then you've got one for non-authentic abuse, all things like that. There's lots on it. Peter: Yeah. natalie: And that gave me, when I finished the website and then I thought, you know what, I need to push this now because I think social media for me in relation to mental health is trying to turn it into an aesthetic more than what it is. It's trying. It's not actually getting across what needs raising awareness. It's making it a bit of trophy. to, ⁓ I've just had my ADHD diagnosis, I've just had this. It's like it's something you need, it's like a gold medal. It's like, ⁓ I've got this now kind of thing. And I think it's the way social media are portrayed. Peter: It's almost like clickbait too. It's almost like clickbait too. Think about it because they're clicking it all the way or it's a hot button issue for the month. ⁓ well, this month's mental awareness. So you see all these videos, but then if you really watch what people still go with it, there's not a lot of people still staying in the game afterwards. They think it's just a one and done thing. It's not. It really isn't. You know, and we have something similar like that here in the States. Actually, one of my guests in the show, Lisa Sugarman, has one that's called the help hub.co for out here for us over here in the States. She had done the same thing like you were doing. But I don't think hers is interactive as yours is. It's more like a lot of the information she piled together. She did it based on like different religion aspects too, like certain religions, know, you can only have certain guidelines to certain things. So she covered all those different things too. We met another guy, what's his name? ⁓ Name Matt that's in Canada that has one, it's called the Mind Something. I got to look it up, something, come mind something. But similar to the same idea. It was like based for Canada, things like that. So I think that's really great that you have that though, because You guys are each doing something respectfully that makes sense though, because you're banking a place for people to find things. Because a lot of people don't even know where to start. That's the most problems. Like, hey, where do I start? And at least this way they have some information. Yours seems to be the most interactive though with what it does, because it's kind of like PsychPow a little bit, because PsychPow is a bit like it's a companion ⁓ to therapy basically. It'll track your moods. You can talk to it. You can text to it. You can send it pictures. And it basically learns who you are as an individual. Now, when you're talking to it, it's learning more about you. That way, when you come to it in a certain situation, you know, it's not not therapy replacement. does will reach out to you if you 988 needs to be called or one of the emergency lines. It is definitely ready to start doing that, too, because that is another one of the features. So have it right there for you if it feels like you're you're in need of that kind of thing. So it's identifiable to that. But, you know, it's really cool, though, because it's like you can you can send it pictures and it will interpret it for you to understand. And I know with certain people like having BPD and all these other things, they don't understand things at the same level. Autism is different for them too because they don't understand everything the same way people do. So I think that's really cool what you're doing as well because it's kind of understanding a little better about what the person that's using it needs, know, and it kind of suggests things that, you know, and stuff like that too. And PsychPals kind of similar like that too for us. They're based out of Canada. But they're like, they learn who you are and then they talk to it and it talks from back, you know, and it'll help them, you know, hey, listen, break it down so like they can understand it, you know, for different people too. So I have other people trying it to see what their testimonials are. And what I'm to do is put a video together for everybody to see everybody's experiences because, you know, I know when it comes to a lot of these things, people are scared of AI, but I think it's, it's more of where do you, it's, it's how you use it versus like you being really worried about what it's going to do. natalie: Yeah, I totally agree with that. do. When you came on, was you more about general mental health all in, or is it more, are you looking at doing sort of like pushing out for like male mental health as well? Peter: You know, I'm covering everything. In the beginning, it was the same thing. was just like, you know, I put this idea out there, the thing blew off the handle. I was crazy. I had like 150 Facebook messages because this started in a Facebook group. I just put it out there. You know, I got approached by a network to join them right away to do live episodes. Like, hey, we're new network. You want to come do this? did the show, which just meant out the weirdness. you know, not just man, you know, we're talking about everything, but being a male that's talking about this and other males that join me on here, we're beating the statistic already because a lot of males don't talk about it as we know with the suicide stats. It's just, it's just insane. Like 80 % of them are males. It's like, think about it, we're at 177,000 like a few months ago and we're, it's how many of those are males? If you think about it, you know, 80 % of that number is probably going to be a male, you know, or most of the majority of it going to be males, you know, because they don't talk about it. Cause every time we say something, people trying to shut you down and saying, ⁓ well, you're not supposed to have feelings and this and that you're supposed to man up and all these other things they tell you. you know, in the beginning, the show had always been the same thing. It was just like inviting other people to come on and talk about this, you know, and, I didn't think I was going to get anybody on honestly, but then I had like a whole like slew of people just lining up and it was crazy. Like in the first, first half of the year, I was already booked it in a year and I was like, damn, okay, well I've got something here. So I opened a second time slot where I was doing a 3pm live show and Shot off to the end too. So come November, I discovered that we have digital calendars that do schedules and things like that. So I put one of those implemented. I kid you not when I tell you that this thing shot off to April within a week. We're already in April, 2025, people lining up to be on this show. Then we got to July by the end of the year of just people lining up on those two time slots. Now, the way I do it now is I bulk record it and I preset it ahead of time. like I, you know, That way I have time so I can juggle things better. But before I was trying to do like five days a week and I think in March alone, did like 35 interviews at five days a week, you know, all different times. And I wasn't really sleeping much either. And I work overnight. So like I work a night job. So like I come home and record this, you know, but it was, it was interesting though, that all these people just kept coming and kept coming and kept coming. And I just kept watching it keep going. I'm like, holy crap, I'm almost in October now. I'm almost in November now. And like, was like, it was just insane to see how many people wanted to be on the show and had so many things to say. And we've had interesting stories since, you know, the first time I think the first guy interviewed was a military veteran. He was like 22 years in the Marines and he had so bad a PTSD and everything else that he was dealing with. He could barely go to the store, get a loaf of bread and come home and not be mentally drained from it all. And and it was, and you could tell he got upset on air. This man was was crying on the air and everything too, because he was so emotional about what he was talking about, because it was rough to hear. Had it gotten a Humvee explosion and things like that. It just got crazier. The guests just kept going. The next week it was the woman who said she died on the table like 12 times. And I was like, this just got more interesting by the minute. was just like, whoa, hold on. We got a lot of things going here. And now where I'm at now, I get emails every day of people saying they heard an episode. ⁓ they want to be on the show and things like that too. So I'm always looking for new people. When I came across yours, you're live. I was talking to you and then you sent me that what you sent me your thing. I was like, wow, that's that's a lot. Like, I mean, you've been through a lot, but you've accomplished a lot too. So like hats off. You didn't let it stop you. You just kept going though. natalie: think I could have, I think if it wasn't of the strong minds what I've actually got, I think I could have. I'm one of them people who if someone tells me I can't do something, that makes me want to do it. So, when is an example for you, okay? So when I had my daughter, I've got four children now, okay? They're all grown up now. When I had my first child, I thought, right, I need to sort my head out. I need to get therapy. need to go to college. Peter: Yeah. natalie: Because I'd left school, obviously, before the age of should have never sat an exam. So I to college, went to college, I had to start. It was called an academic course over here. I don't know what to call it over your way. There's basically a year long course and you your maths, your English, your IT and then you do some subjects. So I decided to do law, criminal justice and sociology alongside the maths and English. And my granddad said to me, because... the year before the access had done interior design for the year. And my granddad said, and I love him to bits, he's passed now, but he said, you would not last two minutes doing law rights. That's what he said to me. So I had two cousins who we didn't really bother with and they were sort of really snobby. And one of them was going to do law and one was going to do accountancy. So I said to my granddad, if I wanted to be a lawyer or an accountant, I would be a lawyer or an accountant. And he said, You last two minutes. that to me, that was what I needed. That was the bullet loaded in my gun then, yeah. So what did I do? Finished my access course. Went to university, into university, done my law degree. The day I graduated, I went to see my granddad and he was like, I only said that so you'd do it. That's what he said with his cheeky laugh. But then obviously then I done postgraduate and obviously went into family law and I went into family law because of my upbringing, to be fair. And I always wanted to be the protector. So I went into public over here, it's called public law, which is where you're dealing with the local authority. So when children have been removed from the home and stuff, that's what it was about. So that was for like eight years. ⁓ In that time, I sat on the board at a domestic violence organization, which helped women and men who were victims of domestic violence. So what I'd do, I would then service users. I would, if there was an emergency, I'd come up, I'd get it into court, get them a non molestation order, which is might be called an injunction over your, over your side. get them one of those in place and things. And it was only then that the penny actually dropped for me when I used to say, why did you stay with him to me, mom? Why didn't you leave? And I never understood. And it was only at that point. Peter: Yeah. natalie: when I was speaking to those service users and working with those service users, that it wasn't easy to just walk away from an abusive relationship. And I think obviously we're going through the practice of everything and the laws, the other things and whatnot. All the rates, and I don't know whether it's the same over percentages where you are, but the risk gets way higher when you actually leave that person. that's when you should be worried. That is when the danger alert is on read. And it just struck a chord with me at that point. And I think it was at that point when I actually forgave my mum. I'd never held it, I'd never blamed her for that, what happened. But I did have resentment for the fact that we witnessed it and the fact that we... You know, we were always shipped in and out by the police, the foster carers, and we ended up in different places sometimes. We were separated from each other and, you know, and it was all because she kept going back and going back and going back. And it was only at that point when I sat and I thought, you know what? It wasn't because she didn't want to leave him. It was because she felt she couldn't, you know. And my mum would put up with so much in relation to being in. Peter: Yeah. natalie: strangulations and everything you can think of. But I still blamed her at a certain point in my life until then. And I realized that at that point it was, you know, it was something beyond her control to the side. And obviously then going into counseling and CBT therapy and trauma therapy, that opened my eyes even more as to the wider picture. And it was only at that point now I can talk about this. Peter: Yeah. natalie: Now, because it doesn't have an effect on me now, because I think you've got the own being a victim before you can actually move on, because if you don't, you're giving your abuser the victory. So if you can identify to yourself, well, yes, I am a victim and it's not my fault that I'm a victim, you're taking that away from your abuser. So you're not giving them any more power over you and over sort of the impact it has on your life. And I felt so much like that when I actually realised and I told myself, yes, you were a victim. I didn't want to acknowledge I was a victim. You don't want to be a victim. You know, who wants that title? Peter: Yes. Yeah, especially what you've gone through, though. I mean, it's hard. Like we we had a guest whose actual episode dropped the day we're recording now. She told me in the interview that she was actually being made fun of because she was sexually assaulted. I was like, oh, hold up. I got mad to this thing, too. I got mad. was like, excuse me. I said, look, hold on a second. And I just said, you know what? If you're giving somebody a hard time about being sexually assaulted and you're making fun of them, what the fuck is wrong? I went off for like five minutes and this boy goes like. Okay, Pete. But it's ridiculous. So think about it like, why? Yeah, but why are gonna make fun of somebody for that? It's not like they woke up and said, hey, listen, I want to get assaulted by someone. No, that's not how that works. natalie: Yeah, I think it's accepting it. No, that's absolutely disgraceful it is because that's all to minimise it, the trauma, what's happened to you and that is just unacceptable, totally unacceptable. I just don't understand how people's minds work sometimes. But as I said, I am, you know, I'm not saying like I'm over it, I am ⁓ over that in that respect, but I've got to hold no anger anymore. Where I did, at one point I did, I self harmed. Peter: Exactly. Yeah. natalie: try taking tablets and, you know, I'm talking about years and years and years ago, to try and deal with things, you know, and I realized that, you know, I'm here and I've got a path where I can help other people to go through this. And I am an empath as well, Pete. And I tend to draw sorts of people who have got, well, here's an example, okay. So my room on TikTok, okay. So my basis of my room is a no judgment room, okay? You show up as your true authentic self. Do not have a mask because you don't need it, okay? No negativity will be tolerated because I believe there should be safe spaces and that's what I put out, it's a safe space. And everybody I could say, and I'm gonna say 99 % of people who are now regulars to my room have all... Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: are all neurodivergent in one way or another. And I do believe that we're, I think we attract those types of people and we're building and growing this amazing community now who we've got a mixture. We've got women who've been abused. We've got women who've obviously escaped that kind of trauma. We've got addictions, people who are nearly almost like a year sober free or substance free. We've got... ⁓ We've got people from the LGBTQ community who come in who've suffered with bullying and all kinds of things. We've got a lot of men now with mental health. And I absolutely love it because the vibe what I'm trying to put out there is everybody is equal in here. Nobody's higher than anybody else. And what's happening now, when people actually come in, they're having conversations with each other. And that is exactly what I wanted because even though it is a community room, it's not a grab. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: room. It means something. So obviously I have I have my normal little lively rooms. I also do obviously the blind poetry, which is getting so much emotion out of people on a Sunday. So I ask I offer my followers a space. I have 20 spaces every week. OK. They message me and say so that's the word so and I'll send them a little information sheet. So most of these poems, the hard hitting and I talk like Peter: Yeah, no, get you. natalie: the tears, it's the tears. So every Sunday at 8 p.m. I will have created a personalized poem for each of these followers, okay? They do not know what is in that poem until they hear me read that poem out on us on the Sunday evening, okay? So they've sent me the bare minimum of whether it's about childhood trauma, whether it's about domestic violence, whether it's about suicide, whether it's about grief, losing someone, anything. We had one about... toxic parents, ⁓ narcissistic parents. ⁓ And I literally will write them all a poem and I will literally sit and read those poems out to that person that night. And it's, I'm now on week five of doing that because it's so popular. So we then started last week, Letters We Never Send. Now I've got this on my website. So there could be a time when I did this myself over my abuser. I wrote a letter. Peter: Yeah. That's so cool. That's really cool. There's somebody. natalie: to get all my emotions out, all my anger out, everything in this, because that is a letter that will never be sent, but it's away from me. It's not in my mind anymore. It's away from me. So, no, as soon as I said to my followers about this, I was inundated. So last week I had 18 letters to read. That one is all anonymous, by the way. So anybody who writes, they write their own letter and they send it to me. It's read out anonymously. So within the first one last week, the feedback was, wow. Peter: Mm-hmm. Exactly. natalie: That was a weight being lifted. The emotions were heavy. Some people messages as the first time I've slept in six months because I feel like I've let down of something. And that is what I'm trying to do on this platform. I'm trying to give people that space to be themselves and to get rid of any negativity and anything they don't need to hold onto. And that's what I'm trying to do on the platform. And that's why I do a lot of spoken words. And most of the feedback from them is I'm saying things what people can't put a name to. All like different ones. And that when I found you, when you come in my room and I found you and obviously then we spoke about, obviously the podcast and stuff. And the first thing I did, went on YouTube. You'll see, cause obviously, you know, the name and stuff now I did subscribe to your channel on there. ⁓ so, you know, because I've been asked a few times to be a guest on a podcast and stuff. And I've always gone and checked out the host and seeing what it was about. And as I said, it's not always about what we're going to be talking about. It goes to more aesthetics, how people look, how they're coming across on it and stuff. And I've just said, no, sorry, I'm busy or whatnot. When I see yours, it's raw and it's real. And there's no, there's no, there's no, what's the word, there's no, it's not aesthetic. It's not about. ⁓ you need to do it this way. We need to do it this way. It's raw and real and what you're asking. This isn't rehearsed. You're asking me this question for the first time. I'm answering you for the first time and that's what makes it so, so raw and so real. And that is why I was so happy to do this with you today. So just have to get that prox. Peter: ⁓ no. No, no, I agree though, because there's a guest that's returning for a recording this Saturday. She was on episode 54. She said the same thing. She's like, ever since I was on the show, she's like, it was it was so different, you know, like I could come talk to you and it was great, you know, and there was a lot of people. So I even had a guy from CNN, John DeCaucus came on. He reached out to me to be on the show. Now, this is funny because John reached out to me and they came on and we were talking and he stops like 20 minutes and says, hey, listen, Pete, I want to tell you, I love the way you interview. This coming from a guy with 22 years experience journalism, seen all these things around the world, worked with Wolf Blitzer and CNN, know, all these other things. He's been doing all these things. He came to me and said, hey, listen, I like the way you interview. So it's really flattering when people say that because it's like, don't, don't read, honestly, be honestly, I don't even like ⁓ really look at much beforehand unless it's like, you know, like a certain author coming and we're talking about a book. I'll prepare a little bit more there, but normally it's no prep. I usually just come straight in. And we go right into the conversation depending on what it is because the authenticity comes off in the emails I'm getting from people and the response I'm getting. And you know, like you said, you went over there, checked it out and you were like, wow, okay. Yeah. You get lots of offers going podcasts all the time, you know? So it was great when you said yes, but I heard you say that. was like, damn, dude, I'm like, you're not wrong though, me. Cause I hate those people are like, ⁓ well, it's pretty, let's talk about the questions at a time. How about this? Just jump right into it. How about that? I was just kind of see. Like I don't really agree with that format where people send questions at a time or like, well, I'm like one guy I did it with though. He's a good friend of mine. Andy runs a podcast, the ride along podcast with flat tire. Andy, he sent me this list of questions. I didn't even look at them. It's like, yeah, man, we're just going to go into these things. But we were going for like two and a half hours in our interview when we did it. We were just going for like ever just talking about everything. And we get off caught in these tangents and things like that. So, you know, when I, when I started the show, That was the one thing that I did get told though by my ex. She was like, you have to be authentic in this space because if not, people could read through crap. And I'm like, okay, makes sense. And at first it was kind of like, I started figuring out what she was meaning by that because at first it was kind of like, you know, I did a little more research on these people and I'm like, you know what? I woke up one day and was like, you know what? Fuck it. Let's just go for it, man. Let's just, let's just see what happens if I don't do a lot of prep and I just come in and show up as is like, I'll show up in like random things. I don't even care. Like it don't matter how I look like I'll come in some days with just like hats on t-shirts on hoodies on. It doesn't matter. I've got like 10,000 different. I have no I have no prep to this thing. don't I don't look for anything else. I look for the stories alone. You know, like I said, I had John DeCock is come tell me I'm doing a great job, which would met the world. We almost passed on the floor over here. I was like, hold up, hold up. You know, but that was the point of the show. It's like that's how you approach everything, though, like it's wrong just straight to the point. And when I edit them, I really don't edit. just clean up the audio a little bit, unless there's something to take out. Like we did a series on suicide awareness with a woman named, ⁓ Russian, a carny, she came on and this, this woman had a story to tell her husband. Unfortunately, he took his life. She told the kids about it at the ages. I think there were seven, nine to two youngest ones and she was telling them about this and the way she went about it was so interesting, you know, but then like in the, after, after we were done interviewing, she said, Hey, there's something I said in there. I don't like and that was a great thing about pre recording these episodes is I can cut out that stuff like I was telling you, you know, like certain situations come up. I've had a lot of interesting situations pop up, but you know, the authenticity is still there. Like I don't really doctor anything like unless I'm really like someone says something that I'm like, ⁓ you know, I don't really think that's a good idea, but I'll let them know what I cut out. Like, Hey, listen, I take this part. I felt like it came along just like in her situation. She was like, yeah, I had kind of feel like this comment we made didn't come off to write. I think we should pull it out of there. So listen, you want it gone? It's gone. Without a question, I'll pull it out instantly because I'm respectful to everybody. I've had people come in and share some of the wildest stories we've ever heard in my life on this show. so far, season three ⁓ has been interesting with a lot of people. So one of the girls I did want to introduce you to, her account is actually called Rise of the Phoenix. That's what her episode was titled as because the story she told us was one of the wildest things I've seen. And I've been ranking these, like, honestly, just as like... the level of intensity. You're right up there though. Like if people knew what exactly what that paper said, you're up there, like way up there. But it's like, you know, it's not, it's only because like I need people to understand that these are real stories that people are telling, man. These, these are intense. Like I'm sitting here listening to these things and it's an impact and you would know, like you, feel these things people are saying, man. These are, it's draining some days. Like hers, I was, I was a little messed up afterwards cause I was just like, Wait, what? She's like, you were pretty speechless the other half. I'm like, yeah, because we got to the point where you're like, well, I went downstairs, I drank bleach, cut my wrists, and my brother found me laying there, pretty much left for dead. I'm like, wait, what just happened with sequence in advance? was like, holy shit. What? Huh? But it's authentic, though. It's really just me. And I keep it as real as possible. And I use a matching site for a lot of that stuff, too. And I'm literally going through it. like, I'll know what the subject's about. But other than that, I'll highlight some of the things in the intros and things for people. But on that, we just get into the conversation, see where it goes. So with that being said, we're going to get into one of the questions I'm sure you already know that gets asked on this show. So my question to you is, if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? This is a one now. We've had some interesting answers to this question. natalie: If my mental health had a song, I think it would probably be, Lean On Me. Peter: Okay, that's a good one. natalie: ⁓ that song, that song for me, ⁓ has been one what I've listened to for many, many years. ⁓ and I think it's in the words of, know, ⁓ lean on me when you're not strong. ⁓ I'll be your friend. And I think, I think it's the lyrics to be fair. So yeah, I think if my mental health had a song, it would definitely be lean on me. Definitely. Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That would be the first entry to our list of songs we've had. had Rage Against the Machine, Taylor Swift's mentioned on this one. ⁓ Michael Jackson got mentioned a few times. A few of them I didn't really know who the hell they were. There's some random artist, someone said, but I went and checked them out anyways because I was curious, you know. But it's always interesting because every time I ask you that question, some are like, just like, damn, that's a great question, you know, because music is a big thing for all of us. Think about it like you're always whenever I come in, you're always listening to music. I have music going in the background. I'm a big music guy. I literally had an hour long conversation with a guy from Minnesota that ⁓ he was using music to help some of these kids get through some of their emotions and things. And he had unfortunately lost a girl that was 12 years old. He recorded this song called Weird Hearts. Now, 12 hours after they started recording this song, the girl had taken her life. And, know, unfortunately she was no longer there. So we were remembering her talking about her and things like that. But we got into this whole hour long conversation about Music and things like that and joseph. He was great. We had a great time with him and things like that, too. So I actually stole that question from a friend of mine She has a podcast and it's an award-winning one now She won an award. I don't remember exactly what the award was but she runs one called the shit that goes on her heads When she came on the show, she asked me the same question and I don't remember what my original answer was because i've changed mine mine goes from anxiety song would be ⁓ no, can't remember Okay, so scott pilgrim versus the world that intro When the intro of the song, it's like, that's what my anxiety feels like. So now it's kind of similar to a song like Bad Omens called Artificial Suicide. It's like that constant strumming. Because when my anxiety goes, man, it's going. My heart's racing a thousand hours an hour. But I've learned that when that happens, it usually indicates there's something that my anxiety is trying to tell me something's wrong. And it's like a superpower. It's really interesting because a lot of times I'm almost right on the point, you know, for when it comes to that kind of thing. So like when it's going, that's what it feels like. And then my depression songs were different kind of pain by cold and then leave the light on talk with the dark by pop roads because the video alone is very powerful. The end of the video is very powerful where they mentioned, you know, if you need help, nine and eight and they've always been a real big, you know, I love them forever. You think like that too. But I listen to lot of music though, like all these different ones, like I picked different artists to do the intro song. like season two's intro song was Is it me by a band called Lit Me Bleed I found on TikTok. But we had a few artists on the show. We had Lucy Lenore from the band Haunter. Found out that she had BPD. Didn't even know anything about her like that until she came on. She was telling us about that. We Alex from Alive in Stone come on. We've had Bryson Pretty Suspect come on. And I know he had a lot of mental health issues too he discussed. But he does an emo band out of Eugene, Oregon. And then we've had the band Life's Lost come on too. We've had all these different guys and their perspectives come on. It's so interesting to hear because Life's Lost, most of their songs are about his mental struggles. Tannis is the lead singer of that band. He and one of the other members of the band, Chad, came on and we were all just kind of hanging out, talking for a bit. So it's so unique when people say that, like, know, either it's the lyrics or it's the song. It's like, because my ex-wife was big into music like that too. And she's like, do you ever listen to the lyrics of the song? Some of them know I didn't. Like a lot of Bush songs I went back and started listening to and realized like, wow, Gavin, we're having a real interesting trip here, bro. Like a great song. But then you realize what he's really talking about. You're like, wait, OK, hold on, hold on, man. I still like him to this day. It doesn't matter. I'll still listen to him. But you know, it's so interesting. So like this season is actually a young gentleman I met. His name is Note. He came on and he had a song called, ⁓ Trust the Process was the original song. We went through the whole process of talking about his song and everything like that. So was interesting to get his thoughts on it and everything. Been a big support ever since he's been on the show, you know, and things like that too, you know, and it's been real great. So I love it when I come in and you're just so excited to see me and talking about it because it's, it's a needed topic to be talked about. Like think about it. Like we are losing too many people, regardless men, women, children, whatever is, it's getting ridiculous. 10 to 14 is on the uprise. Okay. That's scary. 10 to 14 is way too young for us to be losing people. You know, and then a good friend of mine, Uncle Jimmy and I, we get together every Wednesday and we were talking about social media. OK, so it's interesting because when we looked at the statistics, it said over 50 percent of kids reported that social media has a negative effect on them and their mental health, everything negative, negative in general, which is not surprising because think about what they're looking at these days. All these images are so much information coming out once and we can only process so much at once. So what are they processing is the real question now, you know, because like they're seeing all these Scandacled women are hearing these men talk to these women in very vulgar manners. And it's like, they think that these are the ways that we should be treating these ladies or treating these men. know, when I got the one guest I am referring to that's coming back, Natalie had come on and that was her name was Natalie is her name. She, she goes by Whitney though. So she came on and she, was interesting because when I met her first, she was very pretty girl, had a crazy fucking story. Like the story was just wild. We up and down the whole way through. when she, She her end of the episode, she did make a very powerful statement. She said that my name is my name is Whitney. I deal with my mental health. It doesn't doesn't own me. And she was she was very upset when she said it, but it's a very powerful message she made. She said since she's been on the show, people have been reaching out to her to talk to her all the time about her story and things like so. She's coming back to to fill us in where she's out. So I talked to her the other day for like an hour. We were having a great chat. But, know, it's funny to see how these guys react to her. Like they start saying these nasty things to her. And she just brushes it off. it's like, it's like, she's just watching them do these things. And it's like, these younger guys are coming and watching them do this, degrading women or men, or either way, you know what I'm saying? It just doesn't even be necessary. The bullying of people because they don't like that they're, they're not straight. They're into guys or girls. Like I don't give a fuck what you do behind closed doors. That's your business. Do whatever you want. Hey, more power to you. My brother's in the community. I support him a hundred percent. I've been his biggest support since day one. Like I knew that he was, you know, He was gay. was like, didn't bother me. It like, it didn't change how I felt about him. You know, and that's the way it should be for everybody. But everybody seems to forget that at the end of the day. We forget kindness is one thing that we don't have to pay for, you know? And that's why it was closed up to show when Kynak could save someone's life. Because you don't know if the last interaction you have with somebody is the last interaction they'll ever have with them or somebody in general. You know, think about it. Like, always teach my kids, hey, remember the last thing you say to somebody because if you, you may not be able to say that and then you take that back the next time you see them because they may not be here. You know, and it's the same thing and it's such a hard subject to have, but it's at the same time, it's like, we're not talking about this stuff enough. I don't care what people say. Like the statistics say that we're not. I don't care what anyone says. Oh, we're talking. Where? I'll wait. I'll wait. You know what mean? It's like, where are we talking about this stuff? And when we do, people get so offended or they get so like irked or like, well, you need to go into a mental hospital. You need to go this or you need to go get help. It's like, but we're all doing these kind of things. natalie: I don't think people want to accept sometimes like I got this, I've got lots of tattoos, but I don't know whether you can see this one. It says 60 seconds. And I got that for the reason of if someone said to you right now, you've got 60 seconds to live. What would be your biggest regret? What would you have wanted to do with your life in 60 seconds? I'm looking at you now. That 60 seconds has gone now, Pete. Peter: I like it. That's a good question. natalie: gone. You can't even think that this is the thing. And that reminds me every single day when I brush my teeth, because that's why I got it there. So I can be reminded of that every day to basically to give gratitude every day, because we just don't know what day is going to be our last. And we've got to make the most of it every day what we've got. So that for me was like, I've got about 40, maybe 45 tattoos. And out of all my tattoos, that is the one. Peter: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. natalie: I look at every single day. Peter: Well, you know, like it's funny you say that because you know, like your 60 seconds is very symbolic. Like now I ask people, hey, how's your mental health? You know, because if you think about it, if I were to ask you, hey, echo, how you're doing, you'll say, okay, that's it. The conversation ends. But if I say, hey, echo, how's your mental health? You would be like, ⁓ you know, then it'd be a different conversation because now you're really thinking about what I just said to you. And you're like, wait a minute, hold up. Why did you ask me that question? And then you lead in with, well, hey, listen, I noticed you were struggling. You know, things that you could lead into opening the conversation. So there's a guy I know that tried it. He was trying with other people said it when he asked people that question, a lot of people responded in a different way. And I was like, well, I mean, think about it. You're asking them a whole different question. You're not giving them a chance and out. You're not giving them one word answer or giving that chance to say, well, I'm OK. And then they lie to you because they don't want to tell you really what's going on because you don't they don't know what you're going to say to them, you know, in a lot of those aspects. And it's like it's horrible. You know, but if you don't want it, I do have a side project, though I do as well, which I've very I've been working on now is called Voice of the Voiceless. So the idea of the show is exactly that. You think what you do with your poetry readings, your letter writing and things like that, too, you know, and things like that for people can come on, say, tell their story and we'll label them as Voice of the Voiceless because a lot of people want and somebody had asked me, why do people want to be anonymous? I said, because sometimes those stories are too hard for people to own. Like they don't want other people to know that this happened to them because they don't know how people are going look at them. like, people know that you're trying to commit suicide. You know how many people look at you weird right after that? They're like, oh, well, we got to treat you like a little kid now. No, that's even worse. You know, they do the direct opposite of things that are supposed to, that would make sense. you know, oh, let me treat you differently. No, don't do that. It's like, you know, understand that they've gone through this and just understand that you making them feel weirder is even worse. And especially with addiction too. I get... They used to be a different person, but you have to remember they were in an altered state of mind when they were doing these things, you know, and they're trying to change. Like you need to support them. Like, are they going to mess up? Yeah, it's going to happen. You know, let's, let's face the facts. It happens, but you know, you being there to support them and just be like, Hey, you listen, you know, it's all right. Just pick yourself back up and go, you know, it's cool. You know, I don't think enough people do that. I think most people are just like, they want to come down on people. Oh, you do this and that. And they think that's the way to go, but it's really not, you know, and doing the show, I've learned so many different things about stuff like that. know, addiction wasn't one of those, I really knew much about it first, but I met a lot of different people, you know, and it's always like every time I see somebody says, ⁓ I'm X amount of days. So, okay, cool. Awesome. That's great. Five days. Let's celebrate it. One day. Let's celebrate it. You know, just make it feel like it's the biggest thing ever. You listen, everybody's you're going to have missed days where you fall down, man. It's okay. You know, and that's, that's a whole, probably this whole, the whole podcast situation was like, That was going to be our safe space. Like whatever you tell me in these four walls, we don't, I don't judge you. I don't, I don't care what you've done. That's your own prerogative. Like, you know, do you need somebody to support you? Send me where I got to go. Like I, I support all their podcasters. I, there's a couple of young guys I've met on Instagram that have been on their show twice now. And it's these two young guys, 21 and I think the other guy's like 23 or something, but two young guys just having general conversations about life. And it's interesting to hear their thoughts because you're hearing it from the younger perspective. versus where I'm at, because I'm 40. So my perspective is different, but we got along no problem. We had a great conversation. I came back for episode 20 because most podcasters don't make it past episode 20. Heck, a lot of them don't even make it that far. I think most people make it past like five sometimes because they don't realize the work that goes into this. You're like, you know, I spent hours doing this stuff, preparing it, doing things like that. And then the editing part and then I got posted everywhere and things like that too. So I go around and spend a lot of time doing the show, but at the same time, It's not like work to me. I love it. Every time I hit record these conversations, it's great because it's a new person that's coming in and telling you something new, you know, and stuff like that. Because you learn different things from the people you meet, all these different people doing really interesting things. You know, you hear people's stories and people feel empowered. Like, like I said, my friend Whitney was telling me, she said that it felt so great to get it off her chest. She felt good. She said people reaching out to everybody else, how to get a hold of her. You know, it's just great to hear because people like I saw you on the I heard you on the podcast. I'm interested. to talk to you things like that. And they wanted her to come talk about her own story with other people. She got invited to somewhere in the UK to do a show as well. Like when we were live on the air, somebody had reached out to her. was like, Hey, listen, can I talk to you about being on a show? And so she'll be back again. And you know, it's been kind of cool because I've had a four time returning member. She, when I told her this, by the way, I go, she's like, ⁓ really? I got a title now. natalie: hahahaha Peter: You've been here four times, More than everybody else. You're the record for the most appearances on this show. She goes, oh great, I got a title now. I was like, okay, whatever, fine. So with that being said, we're gonna get to the last question before we start wrapping this thing up, okay? So my question to you is if you could break the stigma about mental health. Now when I ask you this question, I'm asking you from the aspect that something you just want people to stop believing. What would you say that would be in your own experience? natalie: Reichen Stigma me see that it's not. I have so much to say about this, Pete, I do. I have so much to say about it. And I think for me, think breaking the stigma would be for people to start to believe that mental health is not something to be ashamed of. It's not something you'd carry with shame. It's something what I'd say a majority of people suffer with without knowing. ⁓ without realizing that that's what it is. Because sometimes people think, ⁓ no, well, haven't, no, I've said to my friends in the past, ⁓ you've got ADHD or, you know, because of seeing that the mannerisms and things, they do and the behaviors and stuff. And obviously one of my books, one of my books, which I'll show you really fast, this one, this is on ADHD and it's on mental health. So this is based around autism, ASD, all mental health things. And I've said in the past, you know, about, Peter: I love it. natalie: You're this and he said no, because it's embarrassing for them. It's a it's an embarrassment. It's an embarrassment. So I think breaking the stigma, I think we need to raise more awareness to say it's OK. It's OK to feel like this. You know, you're not you're not different and you're not an alien because you are struggling with these emotions. There's help out there. Peter: Mm-hmm. natalie: And we need to raise more awareness, especially to men's mental health, because women's mental health, gets talked about an awful lot. I don't think we do that with men as much because for men, they've been brought up differently, haven't they? We all know that. But I think the stigma, because with men, it's embarrassment, it's shame, it's the man up kind of thing. And I think people need to break through that and say, you know, it's okay not to be okay. It's okay to feel that way and don't feel any guilt. The feeling that you're not human, should I say. So you're not the norm, you're not the norm person. Who is normal, Pete? Nobody's normal. Not one of us can stand here and say we're normal. We've all got issues, whether that's mental health, whether that's just our behaviors, our anger or whatever. Everybody's got an issue, you know, and it's owning who you are. It's owning who you are, identifying. Well, yeah, I might need some help to address this, but it doesn't make me less of a person. Peter: Exactly. natalie: So I think we need to push away in a South-Ether to say, it's okay to be this way. There's nothing wrong in you having issues. Peter: I love it. Absolutely. Well, Echo, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me. This was a pleasure. I've been looking for this all week, man. I was like, yes, I get to talk to Echo. I get to meet a little more about her. I mean, like I said, you've accomplished a lot, though, what you've been through and to where you're now. Four books published, you know, all these other things you've accomplished, man. You just not letting anything go. You're holding these lives for everybody to come hang out in. You're always positive, really bubbly, and it's great. I know you're making somebody's day. So before we start wrapping up. Do you want to plug where everybody can find you, like where they can find your books and all that good stuff? Just lay it on them. Where can they find you? natalie: Yeah, so all my books are on Amazon. All four of the books are on Amazon. My website is www.donttiltyourcrownsist.co.uk. ⁓ Peter: You can. You That's so great. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Where can they find you on TikTok? Go in and plug your name too, because we've got to send them over there to find you, of course. natalie: Joyce out! Yes, echoed poise on TikTok. That's the only platform I use to be fair. Can I just say before I go that just for your people who are watching, okay, that your beginning does not get to decide your ending. So trauma may explain parts of your story, but it does not have to write the whole script. Healing, yes, it's hard. Rebuilding is hard. Peter: Go right ahead. natalie: or facing yourself is also hard, but there is another side. And sometimes the most beautiful purpose is born from the places that once tried to break you. So what I would say is I turned survival into service. And that was what I wanted to say. Peter: I love it. Absolutely. Well echo. Thank you so much again for being here. This was fantastic You are welcome to come and act anytime you like ⁓ Any anytime listen, let me know you welcome come back guys. So with that being said guys We're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete first anxiety You know where to find me on pete first anxiety on spotify all the down to pandora radio I'm an ex I'll be down to tik tok and as always say it costs nothing absolutely to be kind to somebody One kind act you could do could save someone's life or hell you can make their day I'm pete first anxiety sign off saying don't ask how your day is they say hey, how's your mental health? natalie: Thank you.