Latest / Coconut Justice / CJP #22: Dawud Anabwile

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CJP #22: Dawud Anabwile · Coconut Justice

• speaker-0: Hey, what's good? Dawood Anyabwile is an incredibly talented award winning animation director and illustrator. He's also proof that it's okay to meet your heroes. Dawood is celebrating 35 years of Brother Man Comics, a comic book based in a universe he created and manifested with his brothers. This is my conversation with Dawood Anyabuile. Before we get into it, remember to go to coconutjustice.com to get you some clothes that I think would look good on you. Let's go. Hey everybody, welcome back. I have certain people that I look to when I want to improve my art or if I want to ⁓ really stretch what my hand is trying to do and what my brain is trying to do. And this man is one of those people for me. I will pull up his Instagram account and I will just draw what he makes because he is that dude. You guys, this is Daoud Anyabuile. speaker-1: Thanks. Good thanks. Appreciate that intro. speaker-0: Yeah, no, it's true. like I know when I'm drawing, I know I I I have a tendency to keep drawing the same thing or different characters in different in the same position. Yeah. And so to break out of that, I'll pull up, you know, ⁓ Daoud is also the creator of ⁓ and illustrator of ⁓ Brotherman comics. If you didn't know that, that was a huge huge thing. speaker-1: Huge, huge huge. speaker-0: ⁓ so I'll go and I'll get my ⁓ my comic books and I'll start drawing things. And you know, like even even things as a filmmaker, I like to move the camera around and I love the different perspectives and the different angles that you draw. speaker-1: I appreciate that. And and it's ⁓ I kind of run into the same thing, you know, like I I feel like I'm doing ⁓ you know, I guess we have like a default setting. I guess a lot of artists have default settings. Like there's just a way that we draw a nose or a way that we ⁓ draw a head shape. And then when we, you know, even like when we're younger, we copied off a TV and things like that. And And copying doesn't always it's not always considered like a bad thing because it helps you to break out of your normal way of thinking. You know, because ⁓ I I think when I I started working at the production studios on different film projects, and you know, you have to follow the the ⁓ model packs and you know just get into the style of the show. So you step out of your way of drawing because you have to execute things for the show. And then when you leave, it's like, ⁓ okay. I I I picked up ⁓ how they do their line work. I didn't usually do that. So then you start applying that to your thing. And then sometimes it's hard to go back to your style after that because you're drawing their thing. And then you eventually you come back to you again. Yeah. But what you learned there is now absorbed as part of your arsenal. So so yeah, so that that's that's legit, you know, to look at other people's work and I do that all the time. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And and it's also kind of the same thing, like when you're looking at reference material. You know, you pull up different people doing different body poses and you drawing. It's kind of the same thing. The the ultimate goal for drawing someone else's art is just a little bit different, but you're still looking at reference, you know, and trying to are you are you mostly digital or are you analog these days? speaker-1: ⁓ well i i became mostly digital ⁓ because the the market kind of when the market shifted digital became good for production you know like even like all the graphic novels that i did all of them were photoshopped illustrating digitally over the years the the ⁓ pens got better the the pen tools got better and the paper speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: the pay you know mimicking the paper and stuff got better. but I still I still like conventional. Like I I like digital it serves its purpose like for work. But I like to get away from the computer and sit down and draw. It's just that I don't get a lot of opportunity to do that because ⁓ fortunately the past few years since 2017, 2016, 2017, I was doing back-to-back graphic novels and ⁓ storyboards for film and any other projects. So I was always constantly at my computer. And I can remember like even my son, like he'll he'll come in and he'll see me, he's say, every time I see you, you sitting right at that same spot because you know, big old house. But I'm always in that one place every time they come over, you know, yeah to see me. And I say, Yeah, gotta get it done. You know, but it but for me it's like ⁓ what I did like when I was younger, ⁓ sitting out on my front steps with my friends and we're all drawing in our sketchbooks. ⁓ well I don't really ride public transportation, but when I used to, that was like filling up sketchbooks, riding the bus and the subway and things like that. ⁓ and just getting away from just being confined in the house to moving around. So I'm actually making time for that now. Mm-hmm and just just sketching. You know, I bought a lot of art supplies, conventional art supplies, sketchbooks, pencils, things like that. And I like watching people now like ⁓ who are conventionally drawing. Like I still like the digital, the digital drawings and I I learned a lot from that, but I'm kind of more fascinated now when I see somebody actually. Just pulling out some markers and a pencil or or paints inside of their sketchbook, you know. Like, ⁓ I'm gonna try that. You know. speaker-0: Yeah. Right. I think that's I think that's one of the few things that's gonna save us from AI is the actual process. You know. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. And you know, cause I had a feeling that that would come up because nowadays it's it's almost like you can't like not talk about AI. And my perspective is that yeah, I mean, I see the tool, ⁓ the useful tool in some areas, and then the only thing that usually gets me is it's almost like the removal of what we're talking about, the the process. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Process is the thing that you because really your passion and stuff. When you think of it when you grew up, the passion was the accomplishment of something. You know what I mean? Like, ⁓ you wanna you wanna sit down and make something, or if you're looking at animation or something, you want to make that. You don't want it just to appear, you wanna make it. And I think we're in this era where everything's just appearing and speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: I think that doesn't give it the ⁓ the timelessness of like a Michael Jackson, you know, we watched him grow. But if you instantly prepare Michael Jackson, but there was no history, he's just Michael Jackson now. Yeah. And he's really mimicking what Michael Jackson, who we saw grow and learn and study, and and they had a family, and the family had a story. And all of those things is what makes the music great. So then when you listen to that. You hear the you know there's a whole real story connected to it. And the same as artists, you know, going back to ⁓ Jack Kirby and Stanley and ⁓ you know Mad Magazine artists. Yep. ⁓ everybody has a story and they're real, and that's the thing that made us really love it, you know. Cause I was even thinking, like, you know how in Star Trek they ⁓ make the food, like they'll just Say that they want a steak or whatever, and it just shows up in the thing, like you know, that's really how the that how the artist do. And it's like pretty soon it'll be like that for food. But it's like, don't you want to see the chef make the food? Don't you wanna like you don't want to limit the process of a chef? Right. Because even for yourself, it's like I like to make my own food, I like to prepare my food. That's part of the process. And then seeing people enjoy your food. speaker-0: Dinner, yeah. speaker-1: Because it came from your hands. You put love into it. So it's the same with the art. When I see an artist draw, they're they're putting their love into it. Yep. You know? So yeah. So that's a great speaker-0: That's a great way to break it down too, because think of think of how you're connected. Let's say someone goes through the drive-thru at McDonald's, someone hands you a bag versus if you go to a really nice restaurant, and I like to sit up at whether it's the bar to watch the people cook and stuff like that. I like seeing the machine or the machine parts that are the people cooking and doing their things. And they got the one guy that does the mashed potatoes, they got the other person that does the asparagus and they got the you know they got the lady over there throwing down some wonderful steaks and all kinds of stuff and then when they put that plate on your it always always number one it tastes better just because the food is better yeah yeah but being able to see and being being able to see how these folks care they care about what they're doing speaker-1: It's it's an experience. There you you don't go just go to the restaurant just for food, you go for ambiance and experience. And ⁓ even with the art the artist, it's the experience of the artist that usually connects you to the artist. You know, that's why we're talking now, you know. If if you know, do you really interview an AI, you know? There there's really nothing to interview. You know, the thing just was wasn't there three seconds ago and now it's here. You know, there's no story. But you know, I I get the ⁓ instant satisfaction. you know, the I guess we'll say the Kool-Aid of it. You know, growing up we loved Kool-Aid, you know what I mean? And there's always gonna be an audience, just like the fast food. There's gonna be a audience for that. ⁓ but it doesn't completely replace the the restaurant. What's it? Hibachi, ⁓ like the Benihana, like the ⁓ the statues and stuff like that. speaker-0: That's fun too. Of course I want to see the onion volcano. speaker-1: You know what I mean? I mean, that's the entertainment. And and it's the fact that that's the ⁓ the human the human experience and human nature. Yeah. You know, that's what we're attracted to. So I think with technology, technology should it should marry the human experience. It should it should coincide, not dominate. Yeah. So that's why I say, well, you know, I mean, it's here. I mean, nothing I can do to make it go away. I could see ways that you can utilize it, but You don't wanna eliminate the the human experience because that that's what gives it the love. You know what I mean? speaker-0: Right. Yeah, that's how I see it. It's a tool. It's a tool. For me specifically, I like using it to do away with the C level management. You know, I don't I don't need anybody to create spreadsheets. I got my own process, you know. So for me, AI is a thing that's actually making Because I have a special interest in the creative community, I see it as leveling the playing field. You know, so now you and I, not just you and I can sit and have this conversation, but ⁓ we can also like go out and do like create our own things. We don't need the studio system anymore to make our own stuff, you know. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and that's that's where I say is the advantages. ⁓ the advantages is that it does help you get time back, you know, have having that assistant. Because that's really what it is. It's an assistant. you know how it is when when you were ⁓ when you were I wouldn't just say when you're younger, but the people you surround say before AI, you wanted to surround yourself with people that know stuff. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Exactly. speaker-1: So if you had a friend who who was into legal or you had somebody that knew money, somebody who knew how to structure a company and they were your friends, then it's like, hey, you know, you can call them up. Hey, how am I how should I do this? Or somebody knows how do website production and and they're helping you with it. speaker-0: Speaking of which, we gotta talk about brothermancomics.com. I went there and it looks like it's down, so we gotta talk. speaker-1: ⁓ for real? ⁓ recently? speaker-0: Yeah, I went this morning. speaker-1: ⁓ you know, I'm gonna have to double check that because it should point directly to ⁓ the big city swag shop. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: But how I mean I'm gonna check their line. ⁓ yeah, yeah. It's the it goes right to the big city swag shop. speaker-0: ⁓ there we go. Okay. Maybe okay. That's a speaker-1: It was it was down ⁓ for probably most of the year it was down because I had stepped back from it because I was working on this other stuff. But I just went back live again. speaker-0: Yeah. Cool. Well, I'm glad that worked. I was doing it on my on my laptop and and first Chrome said that it's taken too long, and then I tried it on ⁓ Safari and then it just kind of hung up there. But then now I just did it on the iPad and it popped up. So we're good. Okay, cool. We're good. Brotherman Comics dot com. It works just fine. Go get some good stuff. Right. speaker-1: Okay. Right. That's right. speaker-0: how long Urra, no actually I saw this morning. Congratulations. Thirty-five years of Brotherman comics. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. A long a long journey. Yeah. And ⁓ yeah, because like I said, the the Brotherman Comics site, it was down probably a year. ⁓ because I I was always meaning to upgrade it. And and like you saying with AI that has been helping me in terms of like things I normally get stuck at, like when I was trying to run my Etsy stores and you know, sometimes with shipping, am I putting the right shipping? And They'll have a help section and things like that. And then you're going through that and then you're spending all day just trying to do one simple thing. Yep. And that was the thing that's been the most frustrating. And then once I realized that, hey, okay, I have the assistant now that's like, ⁓ how do I fix this? How do I get this functional? I'm trying to get my pipeline set up. Yeah blah, blah, blah. So I'm not replacing myself as a talent. I'm enhancing my channels. You know what I mean? So it's helping me to take what I have ⁓ and smooth it out, like get the wrinkles out that have been slowing me down for a long time. So that's why I say I don't I don't knock it as a whole. I say, ⁓ no, I think it's it's definitely a plus and something that's helpful to us. And ⁓ and it's you know, it it it's helped me to organize not only the ⁓ Brotherman Comics page, but ⁓ I'm also getting back into my conventional art and selling that on eBay. So it's also helping me with ⁓ how to, you know, some of the best ways to ⁓ get my art onto eBay, how to promote it, ⁓ how to balance it out. It it can even look at certain images and say this one, this is actually more striking of an image because it takes us outside of maybe how I might look at something and it can see how the public might see it. And give you that perspective. You have the ultimate choice at the end, but it's good to have that that perspective. So so to me, I I that's why I'm saying like to marry the two between the technology and the human experience, not not replacing one of the. speaker-0: Yeah. Right. And not for anything, but it's it's improved my relationship with a lot of my friends. Cause now I don't really call them up with silly ideas anymore. I just talk to Chief Chat GPT. I'm like, all right, what if there's a frog in a tree? And I'll speaker-1: That's actually true. It's actually true. speaker-0: ⁓ but when you started ⁓ Brotherman comics, you started it, it was your idea and you started it with your brothers, yeah. Right. What's it like working with your brothers? speaker-1: Well, ⁓ you know, I mean our our our dynamic has changed in all this time ⁓ you know, over the years. ⁓ from when we started, you know, when we when we first started, I think I was 24. My brother Jason was twenty-five. Well, me and him are like 14 months apart. So we're we're the same same age for 14 days out of the year. So it's 24, 25, and then guy guys four years older than us. ⁓ so when we first started, there was no, there wasn't really much exterior support. So we had to figure a lot of things out ourselves. I had a few friends that were into ⁓ comics and I had a lot of people, I knew a lot of people that were into art, but comics was more specialized. I didn't know people in the comic industry and the few people I knew that were into comics, it was more independent, independent comics. ⁓ such as one artist, Reggie Byers, who ⁓ he did a comic called Shuriken. He had a company called Victory Comics. And ⁓ they put out a book. This is like in the mid 80s. Yeah. And he put out a book. speaker-0: Everything was still analog, everything was still paper. Yeah. speaker-1: Exactly. And I went to school with the other other brother ⁓ who did ⁓ hamster vice, Dwayne Ferguson. ⁓ but but but Reggie was the one who really put me on to like the publish like the printing, the the printers, because that was hard to find. Like we go to the library, if you go to a library trying to find a printer back then, it it was too speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: The information was too rare and modern, meaning in I there I can't really think of any type of ⁓ book at that time that we could find that had comic book printers that used a web press. You know. And I'm not saying it was out there, we just didn't find it just from going to a library. It's kind of like you had to know somebody who knew and they gave you the information. So that's kind of how we started. And and then also like we had to find roles. Like my brother Guy, you know, ⁓ he did the writing. ⁓ my brother Jason was production management. ⁓ I would just draw, but I also me and my brother Jason worked on distribution, driving around the country with just boxes of comics and and selling them direct. Yeah. That's why we didn't really worry about distribution in terms of like the major comic stores. Like if they didn't buy a lot, it didn't matter because we were selling like tons of books directly to people. ⁓ but we still had like comic shops ordering a bunch of books. We're shipping UPS like every day, boxes and boxes of books, like hundreds, hundreds of books. And yeah, I mean those days it it was literally like the the big 500 box. It's like 500 books in a box and it's they're heavy. Yeah, and we may have like six boxes going out, you know what I mean, and then ⁓ speaker-0: That's amazing. speaker-1: Then go to the mailbox and then there's orders coming in, just regular orders coming in. You know, because we did like ⁓ ultimately within that period of that five year span, we did like 750,000 books. But that was a lot of books that we're shipping because Brotherman number one was reprinted probably like 10 times, and that's a 10,000 print run per book. So that's why we tell people you have if you have brotherman number one. You have to look if you want to know the first printing, the address inside said East Orange, New Jersey. And that's that was from the first 10,000 print run. All the other books say Urban, Texas, because we had moved to ⁓ Irving outside of Dallas the year after we came out with Brotherman. So we were down in Dallas for like three years. speaker-0: What was that move about? speaker-1: ⁓ well that was kind of more tied into like my parents had moved down there to Dallas like in 89, but that was rooted in like my father had ⁓ he had lymph he was he was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer and doctors had recommend he be in a dry a drier climate because it we they were in Philly at the time. And so my mom, she's a Philadelphia public school teacher. And Dallas Independent School District was recruiting teachers. So my mom, she she took that job really on behalf of my dad. She she's more like an East Coast person. They said, hey, you know, drier climate. So in 89, they had moved down there. And that was around the same time we started Brotherman in Jersey in 89. And when we introduced it at the Black Expo New York. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: My parents had recommended, hey, why don't y'all relocate to Texas? Cause down here, you overhead, the overhead is cheaper. Because we're right outside of Manhattan at East Orange, New Jersey, right across the river. And they say, you know, the overhead's cheaper. ⁓ we were basically in the middle of the country. And since we were driving everywhere, like hitting up a lot of events. We were equal distance to Chicago, New York, Atlanta, LA when we drove everywhere. So we we put like thousands of miles on our van, but we always drive back to Dallas, Dallas to Chicago, Dallas to LA. ⁓ and then also Dallas is where a lot of the media coverage jumped off. Like our first major story was Dallas Morning News. And and the people in Dallas were really receptive to us. So they gave us a lot of support. Like we ended up on CNN. and that snowballed into being on the the AP wire and then other stories. Then it then it went back to Philadelphia, Philadelphia Tribune, Philadelphia Inquir. was it inquiry? Yeah. LA Times, Chicago Sun Times, you know, but it was Dallas that really supported us and helped push it. And then we started like. reaching the country and then ultimately around the world. Like we ended up in Japanese magazines and fan base a w around the world. And this is in the early nineties. So this is still before internet. And and before social ⁓ not not just social media, email. speaker-0: And comic book artists were still very held very high, right? Like comic book artists were loved. speaker-1: Yeah, it was it it was different. I mean, I think because when you look at I think not only comic artists before social media and before internet, there was a time when a lot of the things that we did was special. Even songs on the radio were special. You know what I mean? That's why we would sit around and wait for the song to come on with our cassette ready to go. You know what I mean? It wasn't accessible. Like now you can just get things when you want. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. But speaker-1: You know, you can set a show when you want as opposed to back in the day we had to be home at seven fifty five 'cause the show's coming on the eight. We can't record. speaker-0: And if you missed it, you just you just missed part of the story. speaker-1: Yeah, you just missed it, man. Gotta wait for your friends if I got it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: You know what I mean? And it was a it was a different time, but I think that's what made us really ⁓ enjoy things. That's what made things exciting. And we we ⁓ consumed like now, you know, you see so many great things on social media that we don't sit in it. You know what I mean? Like we see a great piece of art that somebody put hours and hours and time into, and now you just look at it and say, ⁓ man, that's dope. speaker-0: Three seconds. Yeah. speaker-1: It and then you scroll down and then the algorithm gives you another one that's dope. You see what I mean? Looking at graffiti pieces, like wow, look at that. When back in the day you had to go to certain areas, like, ⁓ there's a piece down on Market Street, you gotta go see it. Yep. And so you can take in the train all day long just to get to that piece. And then it's almost like a unveil when you come around the corner, like, ⁓ my God. You know what I mean? And you take a pictures and you just stay stay there for a while and just take pictures and speaker-0: If you look. speaker-1: and absorb it. And now, you know, scroll through and I think that that takes away from the artist that that puts their ⁓ their soul into the work. And ⁓ you know it it's it's like the that that time has changed. But when I think about back in the day, getting back to what you were saying, artists were ⁓ you know like when I met an artist And that they said, hey, this is the person that drew this, you know, like doing the comic conventions. That's when I actually started meeting a lot of artists that I looked up to, like Sergio Aragones ⁓ from Mad Magazine. He he was his table was right next to us. And I'm like, man, I'm sitting next to Sergio Aragones. And he was cool, guy. His family was there and stuff, and they were all socializing with us. And ⁓ and it was just a a different vibe back then. Everything seemed like exciting and new. ⁓ and what we were doing too ⁓ was groundbreaking yeah because even though even though the industry had its way of doing things we were ⁓ sprinkling in our style of how we wanted to to ⁓ promote our books and we were we were doing a lot of things outside the comic industry you know black bookstores ⁓ barbershops, beauty salons, places where people weren't seeing comics. Like that, that's probably that's commonplace now. But when we're doing it, Brotherman was the one that was in there. And then people started seeing what we were doing and then they started going that route. So that's why people look at Brotherman as pioneering ⁓ in in which a lot of other people even not just black comics people were finding a lot of those avenues. Like you don't have to stay in the comic book. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: the comic book ⁓ lane just because it's a comic. Yeah. You know, whatever the topic is, take take it outside the comic thing and go to where that, you know, if it's cars, you know, go to the car shows or blah blah, you know. speaker-0: But yeah, back then you had to work for it. Everything you had to work for. and then going, you know, going back to what you're saying about graffiti, ⁓ growing up in Chicago when when Michael Jordan and and Scottie Pippen and them were lighting the world on fire, there was one building right next to the highway that had a painting of Dennis Rodman. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And he was so big that like the top of his head was at the top of the building, but then they they made it to where you could switch out his hair color. Because if you remember, he kept painting his hair. Yeah. And they had this big ass, I'm assuming it was like cardboard or whatever it was, board of some sort. And then they would switch out his hair. And then you'd like you'd have to go to that building to see what style. It was that Dennis Rodman had that week or whatever it was. And it's just, you know, describing it, like people are like, okay, ⁓ huh. I guess you just had to have been there. Everyone in Chicago will know exactly that building that I'm talking about. It's on the north side, just off of I ninety. ⁓ on the what? On the south side? On the ninety west side of the highway, you know, whatever building that is. But yeah, it was a thing. Like you'd go there and then, you know, if you're down by the building and you're taking pictures and stuff, there's other people down there taking pictures. And so you bond that way. And just speaker-1: Yeah, that's that's what I saying. But when you get up there, there's other people that pulled up there and then you start making friends there. And then a lot of times I met other writers, they were there, you write this, you write that, and next thing you know, you exchange your phone numbers or writing it, tagging in there, ⁓ black books, you know. Yeah, it's a you know, it was a ⁓ magical time, man. Like, you know, I mean when you're living in it, you don't really think about ⁓ you know. speaker-0: Yeah. That you're making history. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, you just live in in that moment. But then we think back to it. I was like, man, that that was really ⁓ really cool times that that we had back then. And ⁓ you know, every every every place, everything has its pros and cons, because it's things that the young people have access to now where I I was like, man, I wish I had access to that back then. But at the same time, it's like, you know, each the lack of is the thing that created. the grind that we had, the way that we had to work is because we didn't have these access to other things. And then I sometimes see that now where some people they get ⁓ upset when things aren't like ⁓ automated like yeah it's not so automated like ⁓ man I gotta I don't know what to do. I'm I gotta go out here and and ⁓ figure out a way to get some you know get something done and and I'm like, we used to doing that. We was always trying to figure out a a way to make things happen. Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying all is everything's always easy, but you don't you don't flip out because you have to ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Work a little bit harder. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. We just used to doing it. speaker-0: Yeah. Do you think I don't I know that you didn't grow up rich. There's a lot of my friends, especially the creative ones, that just keep chipping away, keep chipping away. ⁓ and I come from not being rich too. do you think the lack of resources is what makes What makes lack of resources is what pushes creativity forward, I guess. Does that make sense? speaker-1: ⁓ no, no, it it makes a lot of sense. ⁓ I always say I always say like, yeah, I had a I had a rich childhood because I enjoyed my childhood. You know what I mean? Like ⁓ my parents had always supported the arts. ⁓ they supported like whatever it is that we wanted to do, it was never really like off limits. Unless even, you know, we're doing something some nonsense. Right. speaker-0: Yeah. You know. You can't burn that. ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ But ⁓ you know, if if you know, we're into arts and ⁓ creative things around the house that was always supported. So to me, it was like I think when I got older and I realized how a lot of people they didn't have that support. So I realized, Dag man, yeah, we really did grow up rich, man. Like, you know, like in that in that context. Yeah. ⁓ but but like you were saying, we always called it ⁓ in my We used to call it poor boy tactics. Like you didn't have the money to figure things out. So you you ⁓ we had to ⁓ improvise. Yeah. Like we didn't know how people were doing it. We didn't know how, you know, we didn't have access to this and that. You know, that's why even doing Brother Mayor, I didn't know how really how comments were made. ⁓ down to the supplies. Reggie Byers just said, get this pencil, get that, and get this type of paper. And then And and then you're off to the races. But I didn't know like how Marvel does it. I didn't know about the stamp comic standard. That's why when people said Brotherman was magazine size, I didn't know what comic standard size was. I just had 11 by 14 paper at home. Yeah. And 11 by 14 reduced down to eight and a half by 11. Yeah. So that actually turned out to be a good thing for us because it sat with the mad magazines in some in some bookstores. You come and Brotherman was up there with the mad magazines and it wasn't in the sea of ⁓ the ⁓ standard comics. Yeah. 'Cause it didn't fit in the those ⁓ packs. So I didn't know about standard comic size until years later. I said, ⁓ that's standard comic size. Yeah, hey, I'm on this now. So speaker-0: You're like, that's marketing genius. ⁓ speaker-1: Yo people were hitting us up saying, like, they, you know, hey, how do I make a book? And ⁓ they were making their books brother man size, like eight and a half. They were getting 11 by 14 and reducing them down to eight and a half by 11. Like if you look at like some of the original independent black comics, there were some that were coming out and they were doing what we were doing and going like 11 by 14, reducing down to eight and a half by 11. and to me, they were like, You know, they say, like ⁓ Bob Ross would even say happy accidents. Yep. You know what I mean? It's like, yo, I don't know, but it is working. Cause in other in ⁓ Brotherman number one, I remember using rulers and I didn't like rulers. I was all more of like a freehand artist. And I really wanted Brotherman to look like a sketchbook, but I had to go through this, it was like a struggle. Like, how do you draw like comic book styles? I'm going from a airbrush artist basically doing like street art. From like eighty three, eighty-four all the way up to eighty-nine. And then now I'm jumping into comics. But I didn't have people who are inkers, comic inkers and professionals to show me how to do it. I just went and bought an ink brush. That's why I would look at Brotherman number one. For me, I cringe because I didn't know how to use it, but it was exciting. Like, man, I'm a professional comic. speaker-0: I am feeling myself. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And then ⁓ by Brotherman number two, I was using the the lines in the beginning, and then I think probably like five or six pages in, I said, why this is my book. Why am I I'm not why am I making line ⁓ rulers? If it felt constraint. And then it went from line lined borders to rough borders. And then some from the last half of of Brotherman number two all the way to the end. I just had these rough borders. Because I started refining it more. Then it started becoming more stylized. And then I I started getting more smooth with it. And then I was connecting it more to how I like doing like the graffiti style and the airbrush. I was always trying to figure out how to marry it, but it was kind of like a ⁓ you kind of like stumbling into not stumbling, but it's ⁓ it's just a process of moving into it. You know what I mean? Just like you know, say like like Grandmaster Flash on the turntables, going from that to somebody discovering the transformer scratch. So you're going from baby scratch to transformer scratch, and now they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And it's easy to look back and say, ⁓ Grandmaster Flash, ⁓ he just did this, this, and this. It's like, yeah, but you're gonna remember nobody was doing speaker-0: Nobody was doing it. Very, very go ahead and stand on the shoulders of giants, talk that mess. speaker-1: People like to they like they like to propel themselves back through time and compare what they know now to the pioneers who had nobody to compare and contrast to. So that's where I was at with Brotherman. I didn't I didn't have much to compare to, which is why I actually I have ⁓ this this ⁓ initiative called Drawing from the Soul, which started off as an art instructional video that I did back in like 99 to 2000. And it was to teach kids how to draw, but the philosophy of drawing from the soul was rooted in really what I feel Brotherman was and what you and I were talking about when we're talking about ⁓ having to experience the art to go somewhere where ⁓ what you know basically when you talk about what we're creating versus artificial intelligence creating art, yes, it looks good. but it doesn't have a soul. When we're drawing, we're drawing from experience. Maybe somebody passed away. This is this or a love that you lost or something like that. It's not mimicked. You actually felt it and you feel it in the work. You feel it in people's music. So to me, that was drawing from the soul. That was pulling, we're pulling from our seed, you know, the core of us and we're putting it out there. And to me, that's what Brotherman was. It wasn't driven off of my knowledge of the industry. It was driven off of ⁓ passion and my love for what I what I want to put into the world. I wasn't worried about being the best. To this day, I don't worry about I I never thought about being a best artist. That's something that a title that I felt like you get given, like in speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: elementary school. He's the best kid in class. When we get to high school, you see this good, you know, this there's thorough artists way better than you all over the city. And then when you get into the statewide competition, then you in nationals, and then it's like, okay, I see. Yeah, it's yeah, there's there's people that's good everywhere. So after a while I realize it's not about being the best. It's about tapping into who you are, right? Connecting with yourself. So you're speaker-0: Everybody in the circle is good. speaker-1: Who you're competing with is yourself. Forget about competing with the world. And that's how you stand. That's how you stand alone is by ⁓ drawing from the soul, drawing, because nobody compete. I can never compete with your stories because I don't know. Right. I don't I didn't live your life. Yeah. You the only one that holds that. And you have to embrace that. And once you embrace that and realize nobody can do what I'm doing. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Yeah. Nobody can tell the stories that I can tell. speaker-0: And not just that. I know a lot of filmmakers and folks that want to get into YouTube and stuff like that, and they're like, ⁓ I don't know, it needs to be perfect. I was like, No, it doesn't. I don't stop creating things, I don't stop creating animations, I don't stop creating films, I don't stop doing that because I'm not perfect, or like you said, I'm not the best. I'm gonna keep doing it. This is where I am right now. And I'm going to improve. And if you look at my Instagram just a few years ago, you see hot trash from back then. And you but you get to see the progression. You know, that's just where I am right now. speaker-1: But remember that that's a pr that's also the hot trash would be your perspective of maybe how you're doing your progress where somebody else was like, nah, that was, you know, from their perspective, it's like, man, you were always good. You know what I mean? Like they're not seeing it how you see it. We know what we're trying to do. That's why I say I look at Brother Man number one and I cringe. I have some people say that was my favorite one of all of all of them. Okay, you know. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: But people they see things they see something differently. And that's why we have to like step out of our ego. And that that actually rolls into what I was doing now with going back into the fine art painting. is moving away from ego, trying to be the what was slowing me down from from doing paintings for a long time was trying to be masterful. You know, I wanted to do these great masterpieces. And, you know, like you scrolling online and I'm seeing these people that they're doing the painting styles that I like, but they nailed it. And I'm like, I I see it. I get it. I understand that. I could do that. But you know how there's like a process to get to it because you've been doing digital all the time. So then once you go to paint, you can get frustrated because you're not that person right away. You're not that person that you look at, admired. I'm not doing it like that right away. So it's just like, speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Man, you know, jess away. And then next thing it was the end of the day, and then I did nothing. Yeah. And then next day I tried again, did nothing. You know, and ⁓ I just I came across this guy on on YouTube and he's really been inspiring me. ⁓ this guy named Corbelic. And I really like how his channel is set up because that's what he talks about. He talks about letting go of ego. And just creating and then also putting a timer on your paintings. Just just like he'll he'll cap it off like 12 minutes, you're done. I'm like, I I'm not actually ⁓ surprised because it takes me back to when I used to airbrush at the gallery mall in Philly. Because if you really wanted to make money, you gotta do you gotta do this church fast. five 10 minute shirts, 15 minutes. If you're doing a half hour, you're doing too long. You know what I mean? And it doesn't mean that the shirts were whack. A lot of times because you you refined and you're doing it every day, you start getting your speed up and you start finding out quicker ways to make shirts look good using less paint. You know what I mean? Sketching faster. Then I started saying why I sketch with blue why am I sketching with black and then coloring it? Let me sketch with the color first. That way that color is laid out. Then you know I started learning all these things to get. So now when I was listening to this guy on YouTube, ⁓ basically what he's saying in my mind goes back to the how I used to work when I was at the mall. ⁓ move fast, ⁓ paint fast, because then you start to not go for perfection, you're going for completion. speaker-0: Yeah. Yep. And your thoughts won't get won't talk you out of doing it. Right. speaker-1: So now I got all these paintings, like just within two weeks, I have like over 50 paintings in my house. And I'm gonna do like 30 more this weekend. And I'm just gonna keep it up. And and what that does is it's like accelerated training with the painting. So then when I go back to do like the masterful thing, like when I'm ready to do that later, I'm now accustomed to painting again. Now I can slow down and do the big one. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: was I I I I eliminated the concept of I have to be really good and now I'm frustrated with the tool and also man you only got to get the best paint. You only have to get the best brush. Cause you you think it like I gotta have all the best things. Yeah. Before you can even do something. And now I I've eliminated all that. ⁓ and the content I'm doing. I'm just challenging myself with different things, go from landscape. speaker-0: Yeah. We're gonna go for it. speaker-1: to ⁓ still life, abstract faces, you know, animals. Yeah. And ⁓ and it's fun, you know. So even when I'm doing the the quote unquote mess up, he said, nah leave it, leave it. speaker-0: Truth and Yeah. Yeah. Someone's gonna like it. speaker-1: Yeah, that exactly. And that's that's really what I'm enjoying now. And I'm like, wow, this is drawing from the soul. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I was watching on I was watching on Instagram you you working in your studio and you were showing off a lot of the paintings that you're doing. Are you you working in oil? speaker-1: Now all that's acrylic. Now I do have some oils like because really because it's funny, that's a couple years ago when I was getting back into painting, I wanted to do oils. So I have some oils downstairs I was working with. And I even took an oil painting class. So it was like a master teacher, but I never really had like a master oil painting teacher. So I took one of his sessions. speaker-0: Acrylic? Okay. Yeah. speaker-1: But I still came out of it. I mean, I learned a lot in it, but I still came out with that looking for perfection thing that frustrated me because my painting wasn't coming out like what the teacher was just teaching me. Like 'cause you gotta be like that. And then I gotta jump back on a project. So now I'm going right back to digital when somebody else they may do this every day. They're not doing digital. So my life is different than their life. So I take that into account as well. But ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Now that I'm doing these acrylics, I'm not worried about like I gotta be this master oil painter. speaker-0: Yeah. I I don't even especially like acrylics acrylics are way more affordable than oils. speaker-1: ⁓ way yeah, way more. And speaker-0: That's the only reason I haven't gotten into oils because I'm not trying to spend all that money to learn. speaker-1: All that money and you know you got the cleanup process. Yeah. ⁓ like I I wouldn't completely abandon it. I mean, I have I have it there, and there's certain things I can get from it, but I'm gonna come back to that later because to me, I just want to paint. And if it's acrylics and I'm I'm doing what I'm doing now, and it's and it's it's actually getting me moving that. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: That's the thing going back to what even what we was talking about AI. The passion starts to come out because you're creating, you're making it. So it doesn't matter like it's it's not perfect or something like that. There's the satisfaction of at the end of the day, man, I did eight paintings today. Or you know, I'm pushing next week, I'm gonna do 10 paintings. After I'm gonna do 15, you know. I'm just going to keep accelerating my numbers. And for some people, they're like, yeah, but you know, they they want to have these masterpieces. I was like, no, you don't understand. This is going, this is going to ⁓ for me. I'm creating number one, I'm creating content that I can sell, right? But for me as an artist wanting to do things that are the quote unquote masterful. I'm gearing up for it because now I'm getting just accustomed to painting. Like I'm not scared to come in and do it now. And I'm not scared to like try different mediums. I mean ⁓ subject matter. So I I understand what it's doing and I understand what the guy is showing me. And then I have my own ⁓ theory of of what I want to take from it and add to it. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you're painting, do you go is there a certain process that you follow? Do you go from dark to light or do you go from background to foreground? Is there is there a certain process that you follow all the time? speaker-1: I'm still trying to figure that out because seriously, because I I ask that question sometimes too. And that's why when I'm watching like ⁓ process videos on social media, I'm always looking like, are they starting with light to dark, dark to light? And a lot of people have different ways that they do it. Yeah. and they it all depends on like what I'm painting. Sometimes I might start something with with light and then I'll come in with dark. Other times I Some of these abstract pieces I just go and write with black and I'm just drawing sketching in black. Then I put down my color bases and then I come back with black to refine it. Like basically like when we used to do like the tags in our books, sketchbooks and stuff like that. We used to do it sort of like that. And then then I started realizing like they're just shift your method every time. Like you don't you don't always have to Like if you want to get messy with something, you don't, you know, sometimes we're always trying to be perfect. Other times you can just get messy. It doesn't matter. You know, so those are things that I'm learning now. And it I can't even describe it. It's just you just gotta keep doing it after a while. You start to feel it. speaker-0: Yeah. Let's go back to ego. 'Cause I I probably bumped into this is why I wanna talk about it 'cause I I bumped into this and ⁓ it is what it is. how much ego Do you entertain when you are working with your stuff compared to when you're within the studios? Does that question make sense? Like how do you how do you check your ego when you're dealing with clients like the studio system? speaker-1: ⁓ to me, ⁓ that I've been working with clients since let's say ninety six when I first started working in New York. ⁓ I was doing ⁓ game animation. And that's my first time working with professional animators and and having model packs. This is a Pink Panther CD ROM game. So that's my first time seeing the Pink Panther model pack and I didn't I didn't know. ⁓ I didn't know there's a certain way you have to draw his finger. Like if you draw it this way, it looks like a sausage. If you have to square off the tip, you know, they'll just have the fingers. Then I'll have the shape of his nose. Like that's the first time seeing that. And so like I never went in there feeling like, hey, I'm the best. I actually wondered why I was hired because of ⁓ I knew the guy who's the art director hit me up and it it was the timing was perfect because speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: My father had just passed away. My mother passed away and my father passed away. And that's why Big City, that was a big part of why Big City Comics and Brother Men stopped. I didn't know what I was going to do after that. And I was feeling like down and everything. And my ex-wife, you know, we were married at the time, you know, ⁓ was pregnant with my second son. ⁓ and and we're back in Philly. I was just like, man, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And it just so happened, ⁓ this guy I knew hit me up. Just out of the blue and said, Hey, ⁓ I got a job for you on this game, ⁓ Pink Panther game in the in Manhattan. ⁓ and I was like, yo, yeah, I'll take it. And I said, 'cause I was like, what do I have to bring? Like, what do have to do? And he said, Man, just bring the skills. Cause he believed in me. You know, 'cause I was just like You know, I said I always want to animate, but you're thinking, like, I'm gonna be up here with animators, like I better have to learn how to animate real fast before I get up there. Like, you know what I mean? ⁓ speaker-0: Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: And when I got up there, it's like I I I turn off what I know. And I go up there like a student. I don't go in there like, ⁓ man, yeah, I knew that. ⁓ man, y'all ain't doing it right. You know what I mean? It's like every person that's showing me something, I'm like, I'm functioning like I don't know anything. Like, okay, do this, I'm asking questions. And then after that, you know, the MTV animation. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I'll go. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Other ⁓ then I was in LA class D Shupa on wild thorn berries and stuff. So that was years of me gaining experience working in in studios in professional environments. And I always would ⁓ kick back. It's usually the other people say, wait, they'll discover, you know, I worked on Brotherman and I didn't know people even knew about Brotherman at this point because I'm not thinking about I want to learn this. speaker-0: I'm just excited to be here. speaker-1: Yeah, like when I worked when I first went to ⁓ and that was back when I was like, man, I was like struggling back then. I was young. ⁓ it was like 97. And it was hard to get into animation studios. I didn't know people know people out there. And then when I landed the job on Wild Thornberries, you know, I'm walking around in the studio. ⁓ and as far as it back then, it was like I think I was the only black guy in the whole building. speaker-0: LA speaker-1: I mean the the the the landscape was completely different back then but everybody was cool ⁓ it wasn't a bad experience it's just I wasn't I'm not expecting anybody to say anything about brother man I'm not thinking and then ⁓ the the guy who was the background artist on Wild Thornberries the the main background artist he he catches me in the hallway and he says man you never told me this was you and then he put Brotherman number one in my face speaker-0: And that's it. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, that's me. I said, but why are you walking around here? You don't tell anybody like this is you. I already did it. I'm here. speaker-0: like you know I I do this right I'm on Thornberries. ⁓ speaker-1: like a big you know a big deal and ⁓ because I didn't really look at what I did like I was here like to to learn this chapter of my life to move into the next chapter yeah and that's happened to me multiple places like when I was in New York LA ⁓ because I didn't talk about brother man I didn't talk about for a long time brother man was kind of like on hiatus it does say at times at times where I'm not on that now or on something else. But then when I'm onto something else, the people who I think had know nothing about this, they find out I do that and they say, Why aren't you talking about this? And I said, Well, you know, because I'm always trying to level up. So then when I go back to doing that, it's it's it's elevated. It's come it's ⁓ it's come to another whole nother level of quality. You know, so yeah, I know that's a long, long ⁓ Explanation, but ⁓ speaker-0: No, it makes sense though. Right. speaker-1: So consolidated thirty five years. speaker-0: Whether are you guys doing anything with Brotherman? ⁓ any new stuff? ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ well right now it's it's like I always say that Brother Man never died. You know, because once you create intellectual property, it lives beyond you, regardless if you do something with it or not. because it can always resurrect at any moment. All you need is when opportunity comes in front of you, all of a sudden the world knows about it. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. All over again. Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ so I've done after we did the graphic novel, because you know, we did book one, there was supposed to be three books, and I know a lot of people they probably felt like they were hanging again, like, ⁓ man, you put out one book and then it disappears, man. But it's not like he disappeared. It was like it took a lot to put out that book one. And and at the time when I did that, like my oldest brother, he he actually passed away right before I did the book. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ I didn't really have financing for the book. ⁓ and so what I did was I had put up my house. Basically ⁓ I sold my house to basically recoup the funds that I invested into the comic. And it was a nice house I had, you know. speaker-0: Like, speaker-1: ⁓ you know, I'm free. I'm in a new place now. But that that house, it was really, it had everything I really needed. But I, you know, I was in the mindset of, hey, I'll get another house. I gotta get this book out. It's important. speaker-0: I got this one. I can get another one. speaker-1: Yeah, but but I think what people understand is that that's how committed I was to it. But then it took me years before I actually got the home I'm in now. Like it wasn't that easy to get another house. I've lived in so probably like 15 different places before this place I have here now. And I really wasn't in the mindset of I I'm gonna make Brotherman book two. Because it was difficult those years. ⁓ I mean, I had other opportunities, you know, the graphic novels were happening, sure. ⁓ and I was actually just saving up to get another home. And and I said, Well, you know what? I can't put everything I'm making now into book two when book one never really got an opportunity to really be out there. It's like people have it, but I didn't send sell. Tens of thousands of them. Yeah. So if I put all this effort into making book two just for really a few people, then that's you know, you're asked out. Like, you know, like I put everything into book two, and now I'm struggling. Are those people gonna come and help me get into a home? You see what I'm saying? And I don't expect them to. I'm just saying these are the reasons why Revelation book two and three didn't come out. And I say, you know. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And I was feeling the stress of it for a while because I was feeling like I owed it to the world. Like I can't have stuff half done in the world. Yeah, but it's it was my friend Brian McGee who did the colors on it. Me and Brian, we're real close. We like brothers now. Yeah. And he said, man, if if book two and three come out whenever it whenever it's ready to come out, and if it doesn't come out, it doesn't come out. Like don't. speaker-0: Through that before. speaker-1: Don't feel like you owe that to the world. Like basically he he freed me up in my thinking of taking the stress off of me feeling like I owe the world something. And he said, You gotta put yourself ahead of it. When it when it's time to come out, it's when it'll come out. And that's why I say, Yeah, you know what? It may we may never have book two and three. It may go straight to being an animated feature or film. Then you'll see the full story play out then. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: And and you know, and I've had so many different ⁓ deals. I still have deals ⁓ that I that I discuss with people. You know, we just did never really got to the final thing. But yeah, ⁓ so that's why I say, you know, it's not it's not dead. There's always something active happening with Brotherman. Right. I just don't really put it out there till till it's there. And like I said, so for myself, I'm not personally putting myself out there because I spent a lifetime of investment on it. Yeah. And it's at a point now where it needs it needs heavy investment or I'm not I'm not ⁓ doing it. speaker-0: Yeah. And I think that's what fans need to understand is ⁓ unfortunately it takes a lot of money to do things. And it's more than just a production. We're talking you you actually make the book, but then you know, we touched on this earlier. There's distribution, there's all this stuff. And and if you're a corporation, it costs a lot of money and it's a lot of work, let alone just Three or four dudes hanging out, like making each other feel good because they're getting their ass whipped every day. You know, and like you said, there's like grown-up stuff. There's bills, you have kids, you have a house, you have all this stuff happening. And unfortunately for the creative process, like when you have all of this stuff happening and you don't have the funds. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: To address all of your challenges, your daily challenges, you don't feel like making a damn thing except money. speaker-1: You you know, you know what? ⁓ and and because fans like you're saying, they have to understand like because you know they want what they want and they don't think about like what creators go through to give the world something. And you know, I guess a lot of kids a lot of times it's not for them to be concerned about. They got their own issues. But just so they'll know, like you're saying, you you have marketing sales, and then you have the blood, sweat, and tears that go into. Creating a book, you know, the the the dedication that you have to have to go in it. And then as we get older, you know, like I was speaker-0: Wait for Guy to finish re writing every damn thing. Like, hurry up, guy. We got something to do, man. Quick. speaker-1: It's really on the art and the production after that. But ⁓ but like I said, you know, people passing away. Like I said, when my brother passed away, ⁓ my cousin, one of my cousins who's like ⁓ we all did music and beats and all that stuff, and he basically created like the brother man sound, like ⁓ cause they were doing tryings like since the 80s. And this stuff was like cold, man. That that was always gonna be like One day I'm put out the the the music, you know, to ⁓ to the whole Brotherman series. Cause a lot of people they used we used to bang the music at the Black Expos everybody keeps saying, yo, when you're coming out with the album. And to me, I was gonna do something like gorillas before there was a gorilla. That's what I wanted to do. Like we'll put out the actual characters from the Big City Metropolitan Orchestra. We'll have a big city Metropolitan Orchestra album. It's not like a Brotherman album, it's the music from the world, from the universe. be like cutting edge. So it's like theatrical, but but it's like got a street edge, but it's theatrical. So we it's like a mashup and amalgamation of different types of music. But that was our band. You see what I'm saying? And my cousin, he passed away like Christmas Eve last last year. And that was like that was hard hitting because to me he was a big influence on like his music inspired the art. Just like he hey man, your art inspires these beats and that's like, yeah, but vice versa. So he's part of the family, the collective. Me, God, him, his brother. You know, there's a lot of people in the family who are creative and their creativity, everything drives it. So when people pass away, that also impacts like your creativity. You know what I mean? And people they don't usually talking about, they don't talk about that. You know, some people's artists out here who's like, you know, their mom passed away or something like that. And we don't think about like, ⁓ man, that dude just fell off. You know, you don't know what's going on behind behind them. I actually said, man, I thought about this one time. Some some guy said, because I, you know, in the back of Revelation, I talked about how my brother passed away. ⁓ like as I was working on the book, I was trying to, you know, I wanted him to see it. And and speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: My brother Mike said, ⁓ no, just finish it. Like, don't show me the book, just finish it. And I said, Mike, it's gonna be like 300 pages. You know, and I knew, yeah, he was already like, I knew he was like on his on his way out. Yeah. He said, now just finish it. Because that that's how my brother Mike was, you know, he was that type of dude. And then and then, you know, then he passed away. So to me, that was like that, I think that was part of the thing made me feel like I gotta get this done. Mike said, I gotta get it done. But then I like I said, but after I did book one, I put everything in. I said, I'll put up my house. You know what I'm saying? But then after that, ⁓ yeah, I ain't got a house now. speaker-0: Thanks, Mike. ⁓ speaker-1: But then you know, this this some guy he wrote on he wrote I don't even know who he was, but he said, Hey man, where's where's Brotherman book two? Your brother said, Your brother said that you need to put it out. So I guess he read in the back of the thing. That's just like, man, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that's kind of cold, man. You know, like he's saying he's using it as your brother said put out so I can get it. I mean, but it's speaker-0: I don't even know. speaker-1: But you know, like I said, it it you know, it doesn't make me mad now. I'm just like, okay, well, hey, good say I don't want your book, but speaker-0: Yeah. I mean speaker-1: So I just said, okay, well, it's a good thing. It's just, I I just know what's going on with me. And sometimes that was hard to explain to people. But like I said, Brian was the one that that eased the tension on me because he said, dude, you don't have to explain it. You know what I'm saying? It's it's like it'll come out when it comes out. You you have to take care of yourself. You got to take care of your health. You know what I'm saying? And so that's where that's where it is now. But I don't abandon the people. I just try to do the best I can. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ which is why I'm relaunching the merchandise and I gotta do things little by little and and then that starts bringing the opportunities back to you. And like I said, it's not dead. And I think when it when I think when it does hit, it's gonna be well worth it, but speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And and it this approach is going to save you from you know how like when you go watch Kung Fu Panda 47, you're like you're like they they rushed this, they don't even care anymore. It's just a bag grab. Yeah, you know, whereas if you take your time and actually I mean you don't want to do it, you don't want to be so speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. speaker-0: Controlling is the wrong word, but protect protective. You don't be so protective that you choke it out. But at the same time, you're not like, you're not, you're not just throwing things out there. Yeah. It's it's you. This is your voice. This is your story. This is your art. This is your connection to music. This is your, you know. ⁓ speaker-1: find that ⁓ that happy medium median ⁓ where you don't hold on to it to it to the point where it nothing moves but you also don't ⁓ bastardize it where it's just like well I just want to make the money and you throw it out there and it's and it's just like man what the heck is what the heck is this? You know I can't walk down somebody say, yo man you you the one who did that you know like speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah like no I didn't speaker-0: ⁓ Exactly. Hey, how many artists have you ever heard speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, it's ours. You wanna sit back and have some pride. speaker-0: How many artists have you heard bragging about working on He-Man? speaker-1: Hey well hey hey look now nowadays nowadays probably go speaker-0: Everybody working on He-Man knew that that was specifically to sell toys. That was it. They're like, ⁓ man, let me draw this. Let me draw this weird, this weird bowl haircut. It worked like a charm. speaker-1: Yeah, but it worked. We're still talking about it. So yeah, man. Like that's why I said there's there's a happy media in it. And you know, there's certain things that were designed specifically like that. And some things, ⁓ like a Star Wars, the toys came later. It wasn't the it wasn't driven by merchandise. Well, now it's like the biggest merchandising thing. But it's because they they were more rooted in good storytelling and world building. So to me, Brotherman's rooted in world building. And I feel like it's it's it's type of world building I still haven't seen out there yet. Like I I think people still don't really fully understand what we're trying to do with Brotherman. And it's it's not a it's not a hood comic. It's not just a urban story, it's a world. And it's a world ⁓ full of so many different types of characters. It was just speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: No, it's like a black universe, but we never really sold it like that. It's not like you read the book and people are talking that nobody's talking about race. I I equate the Asian martial arts films, you know. We weren't in it. It was, you know, the everybody here is Chinese, but that's cool. That's what made it cool because you're taking me into your world, you're sharing your culture with me. And speaker-0: I noticed that. speaker-1: If you put me in your world just to pacify me, that's gonna make it corny. Like, no, no, you don't have to do that. I wanna see how you do what you do. And it's great. Yeah. It's Bollywood. I wanna see how you tell your story. So with Brotherman, it was like, okay, we want to create this world that a world that people haven't seen with these black characters, but they're not African American and then they're not Africa or America. It's a different dimension. speaker-0: Your story, yeah. speaker-1: Nobody ever thought about like we I didn't see anything like that. You know, I mean but we see plenty of stories where it's like, you know, Lord of the Rings, you know, it's white characters and they're in another dimension. Star Wars, they're another dimension, you know. ⁓ Luke Skywalker, he looks like a European, but he's not European because he's not from Europe. You see what I'm saying? So to me, to create a a world like Brotherman. speaker-0: Yeah. Right. speaker-1: The whole world has to be created. You don't film it in Atlanta and he's on Peachtree Street. You know what I mean? And then it's just like, ⁓ that's not what you know. Yeah. And I think speaker-0: There's another dude in Atlanta. speaker-1: Right. And see that was the thing about with some of the the people that wanted to do things for Brotherham 'cause we had movie deals since the nineties. speaker-0: Yeah. How's that feel? How's that feel to have a studio be like, yo, we should make a movie? speaker-1: Sorry. We had that from the first year Brotherman came out. speaker-0: That's what I'm saying. So you're spoiled, okay. speaker-1: Yeah, Savannah Entertainment was the first one. ⁓ that did Power Rangers. Yeah, they they were the first ones to contact us. Then we talked to ⁓ Motown, Suzanne the Pass. She had wrepped us. ⁓ she was the one who actually shot the the Michael Jackson ⁓ audition footage. Well, the Jackson Fire audition footage. Yeah, Columbia television. ⁓ then years later it was like Lauren Hill. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, that's insane. speaker-1: ⁓ I sat down with her, she wanted to do something. ⁓ Sam Jackson. Like there there was like a lot of ⁓ in in some cases it wasn't I wouldn't put it on external, there were some things that were internal. Yeah. Like going through a divorce and stuff like that. Yeah. ⁓ that's so the timing wasn't right. ⁓ because and these these these are part of the things I say, like how people don't really understand the journey. They try to create their own story. Yeah. speaker-0: Ignorance. ⁓ speaker-1: But overall, it it was like I think from the very beginning in the early nineties, we knew we had something. So when the people approached us from Hollywood, we never went to Hollywood. We we weren't about creating something so we can go hat in hand to somebody and say, hey, look what we have. So we never pitched Brother Man April. Contacted because we always said, you know, we always had the mindset of, speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: We can do this ourselves. We can build this ourselves. That's before like like now people really can do it themselves. We we even had that tech type type of technology. ⁓ back then it was just really more about the principle of ownership and creating creating an industry or at least being part of an industry and and owning your piece in it, not just being exploited and somebody takes your concept. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: They turn into some old like corny stereotypical thing. You get paid but like, ⁓ man, I got I got thirty thousand dollars or you know, something like you can't buy a house. I'm not saying that's the number, but I'm just saying like speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ No, I know, but thirty thousand dollars goes quick. speaker-1: Yeah, but we see so many stories like of ⁓ entertainers who signed these contracts and ended up with nothing or died broke. And we're up here thinking that they were like billionaires. I said, nah, we're we're not gonna go out like that. And and I said, I'd rather ⁓ hold on to it because I felt like, you know, at some point it can it can ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: manifest into what it is that that we want to see. And and it's getting there. I I feel like it it's getting there. speaker-0: If you were to make a Brotherman movie, would you want to do animation or would you want to do live action? Both or a blend. speaker-1: Well, when I say both, meaning live action, live action, I was just talking to my son about this. Like we were saying, all the iterations of Spider-Man, Batman, you got anime Batman now. You got the Batman live action, you had the Can't Be series, you had the Dark Knight, ⁓ Superman, all these Superman movies. Like, why does it have to just be one movie? I think the first movie, however it's done, I think it just has to be done in a way where at least It's sad. I want it to be more than satisfactory, but at least satisfactory and greater. You know what I mean? So that way, because once you make the film, it's it's embedded into people's homes globally. Right. Then you then you can do the next version because the technology got better. Let's retell that same story, then we're going to do this. Let's tell the story again, but now let's do it in this style. speaker-0: Yeah. Yep. That's that's standard, yep. Or even like you did in the comic books. You started book one was a certain way, book two, you had the the borders a little bit different. speaker-1: Yeah then then ⁓ the graphic novel that was our first color book and that that didn't come till 14 years later we did the graphic novel. So to me, like I s I see an animated, I would like to do an animated feature. That's how I always wanted to do it. and because there's it's kind of like no limitation, like it can look like the comic, it can be distorted like the comic. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ but I also say live action could be cool too, as long as long as you're building that universe. Yeah. But nowadays that's more that that's the possibilities are greater than in the 90s. Like everything had to be practical, practical sets with matte paintings and things like that. Now you can actually create worlds, people are making Universes and YouTube videos. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. You should see there's this one guy. He created this universe that's in the spaceship. And and he's doing everything. He he it it's it's in 3D, and I think he's doing it in Unreal engine. And he's controlling everything. He's controlling everything with his iPhone and all kinds of stuff. And he's just like he's just continuously putting this stuff out. And you're like, what the hell? And it's better than a lot of corny stuff that Hollywood's throwing out there. speaker-1: Yeah, ⁓ I ⁓ Unreal Engine and Blender. I saw a movie that was done completely in Blender. Yeah. ⁓ and you know, they shot live stuff and then they did all their composite it with Blender, like they built out the the world in Blender. Yeah. And I said, Yeah, this stuff can be done. I still think there's still a budget involved 'cause even that's there's still time that goes in that where you have to be freed up somehow to do it. Like, you know. speaker-0: Sure. speaker-1: If you're trying to balance a job and do that like a couple hours here and there as opposed to like I'm financed to just do this every day and get all the people I need on it. Yep. ⁓ it can be done. So yeah, we're we're getting close to it. There's there's some things some things go on that, you know, I just don't announce until it it's it's actually in the works. You know, right now I'm ⁓ working on a graphic novel ⁓ for Harper Collins. ⁓ it's another ⁓ Kwame Alexander book because we did a book called ⁓ the crossover that went did really well. So the book I'm doing now is called Rebound, which is the precursor to the crossover. So rebound is actually already out. ⁓ the hardback is out, but I'm doing the adaptation. We're doing a full, fully illustrated book. So this is gonna take me all into next year. So that's the main thing I'm working on. Yeah. And my fine art my fine artwork is that's what I'm doing like ⁓ on my the side thing. speaker-0: Let me talk to you about going into the studio to do your fine artwork. How how's that? Are you are you the kind that plays music and you get into it, you start dancing around, or do you go in there, you're like serious? You go with it, it was all a dream. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ man. Hey, I'm I might try that today. But ⁓ now I mean I'll always have music. Most of the time music I'm I always would used to play all the music that tracks that we make ourselves. Yeah, because it kind of fully immerses me in what I'm doing. But now it's like ⁓ I'll I'll just ⁓ sometimes I don't even listen to music now. Yeah. A lot of times I used to always have music when I'm working. ⁓ recently I just been painting with no sound which is kind of weird because I always gotta have something going. But when I started doing these paintings within the last two weeks, I would go do my setup and I would start working and I don't put anything on. And next thing you know, I'm not missing not having any music. Yeah. And I'm just working on the piece, which is not really me. I always I was always having something or movie playing, you know, sure background noise, alien earth. speaker-0: Yep. ⁓ speaker-1: New alien earth. But now I was like, man, this is actually kind of cool, man. Like just painting and just being in my thoughts and thinking about the things that we're talking today. That that's usually like in my head. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I think going through that process figuring it out. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: That's cool. That's ⁓ I started hanging out. I reconnected with one of my homies from Chicago, Mike. He's he he's on some of these talks every once in while. And I'm trying to get him to think about ⁓ you know, he's he's a rapper and so he likes to make music and he'll do all that stuff. And I and I'm planting the seed of When you're making music, let's connect because chances are I'm working on some video or some animated something. And if I can leverage his music making skills to like blend into what I'm doing, you know what I mean? It's just a relationship that's gonna blossom. And then, you know, we go out and and Find whatever it is that we're working on. We'll go out and find that person and and ⁓ try to network that way and together, you know, chip away and keep your legs moving. speaker-1: Yo that that's actually like when I talked about my cousin earlier, ⁓ because him and his brother they they they were actually always producing stuff together. ⁓ 'cause they had a record deal like way back in like eighty eight, eighty nine. The whole album was fired. I mean they could release that stuff now and it's still be what was the album? It didn't come out, it got it was shelved. It didn't come out. It was they were under ⁓ it was criminal records and ⁓ that was the ⁓ speaker-0: We find it? speaker-1: company and Arthur Baker was the producer. He he produced Planet Rock. And then years later they were ⁓ signed to Death Row just to do production work. And then ⁓ when Tupac got shot, all you know, the opportunity fell through. But I was always saying back then too. I was like Yeah, but see what what you were just saying now is what I was saying to them back then. Like, man, like forget all this this well I'm gonna say forget it, but man, like speaker-0: Everybody's scared. ⁓ speaker-1: I think at that time I was working in Class De Chupo on Wild Thornberry. So I was looking at everything as a step towards getting to animation. Yeah what I mean? I said we do the animation, then y'all can pr produce the music, and then you're not worried about trying to produce for other artists or get your music out through the music industry. We funnel the music through the animation. And then we sell the Big City Matropolitan Orchestra album. You see what I'm saying? Like that I was I was one that Yeah, and then when then when Gorillas came out, I said, see, that's what I was talking about, man. Like and now you can see like all the rappers getting down with the MF was I think was Doom with them. ⁓ I know ⁓ De La Soul was. speaker-0: Yeah, I think Doom was with them for a a few tracks. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. And I said that that's what I'm saying. And it's like the that that's still a I think animation, marrying animation with musical artists is always like a plus, you know, because music drives the the animation. Yeah. Vice versa. Right. Yeah. So that that's a that's a that would be a good ⁓ collab with your friend. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And you know me, I'm always down to I I I think you and I are similar in knowing that I'm at a certain point, but there's plenty still to be learned. And so, but I'm not coming empty handed, you know. ⁓ I bring the noise in the way that I bring the noise. so yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Like I'm always trying to work on something. again, it's that library of content that you have that or or experiences that you put yourself into that that will make or break a project. You know, and being able to, you know, sometimes you have to hold your hands up and tell everybody who's in the crew, hey, it's cool. We're gonna be fine. We're here. speaker-1: You're gonna be all right, I promise. Yeah, man. speaker-0: Just a bump, you know. But yeah, I'm always especially if you're from the inner city and stuff like that, because ⁓ I have a I have a really big bone to pick with this country. just the lack of investment in where I slash we come from. You know, I don't think that it needs to be this difficult. I don't think we need to pull our bootstraps this goddamn hard. ⁓ and so I'm always I'm always trying to get folks that ⁓ that means something to me on a project. And then we'll you know, we'll go and we'll we'll do some things, we'll do some cool things together. Let's beef up that resume. You know? Cause one of the first things that that people are gonna ask you is, ⁓ I see that you're applying for this job. What have you been up to lately? And some people are like, ⁓ I've been ⁓ been looking for work. No, no, no, no, no. I've been making movies, I've been interviewing people, I've been working on drawing, I've been making music. I wrote a diss track to rappers that do their own graphic design. speaker-1: ⁓ so that's what I mean about. That's different. speaker-0: But the process, the process, the thing that the thing that that triggered that whole thing was I had a friend who went to music school, came out and was like biting his nails all nervous. He's like, I just don't know. I don't know. Like I I I want to make music. I said, well then why don't you make music? And then a couple months later we were in a music studio because I found, you know. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: I went and I found a singer and I helped him write. I helped my friend start writing the song. And then when we when I found the singer, the singer helped make the song prettier because that's what he does. He writes music and he records and stuff like that. And then ⁓ we were in the music studio and my boy looked at me and he's like, You got a song? Like we they're taking a break from the main song and I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me eat. I went in there for about an hour and just laid down the track. ⁓ speaker-1: And it was incredible. Is it out? speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, it's on Spotify, Apple Music, all the speaker-1: Yeah, just send me the link. I I gotta check that out. speaker-0: Yeah, it's it's funny. It's funny. Yep. It's called Bow House. And ⁓ yeah, and it talks about how it's some it's some artistic guy who's got a large library of fonts, and all these people are using AI and all this stuff to do other, you know, their graphic design. And and rappers don't understand that it don't matter if you have AI. If you don't have that eye for creativity for making it look good, it's gonna look like trash. It's not just pushing buttons. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I just saw a a post on that. A friend of mine just sent me one on that today. So yeah, that's legit. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I'll send you over the link to the song and then you you let me know what you think. speaker-1: Yeah, man, no, I'm I'm I'm into music, man. Like a lot of people they didn't they didn't know like even ⁓ when I had my turn tables like, yo man, you cut. I said, man, I've been I was DJing since I was like fifteen. School and stuff like that. And but you know, I always had to choose between music or art. I mean that's how my life was, 'cause ⁓ each one takes up a lot of your time. I I yeah, I I'd like speaker-0: Yeah. So speaker-1: I mean the visual art was always the thing I was doing since I was little. The music was always my that's my fun thing. it's supplements. 'Cause even my tracks, the tracks I do, they they fit my universe, you know. So I always like ⁓ I mean like hip hop of course, but I also like ⁓ theatrical music. Since I was you I I had the alien soundtrack and Star Trek soundtrack and And even like orchestra music, I was always into that. And my brother speaker-0: These soundtracks I cannot listen to if I'm driving, boy, cause the wrong song hits, I'm doing like 105. I am gone. ⁓ speaker-1: You don't want that to be a soundtrack to your destruction. No, no, I I I was always I was always into that. So I like things that sound epic. Yeah. So when I was like into like, you know, this those 90s instrumental style, I would like to mash that up with something epic. That's really what the Brotherman theme song was. Yeah. ⁓ me and Brian put together. It was just the strings, the heavy strings with grimy. ⁓ heavy drum tracks that take you into a whole nother dimension. So that that's kind of really what I'd be on. So you know when people say they do music, I like to I like to listen to it, listen to the ⁓ production, how do they put it together? ⁓ yeah, I analyze that the same way I look I analyze art. I just like creativity. So which goes back to when we were talking about AI, it's like AI to me, well when it comes to AI art and all that It's just the end product I can look at, but I can't see the process. And I like I like process. Like I said, I like pencil sketches. I like you know, before the full animation is done, I like to see the sketches, I like to see ⁓ even like you know, when they're just talking about the script, going from script to little thumbnail storyboards to this part, that part. So I like seeing how things are put together, but with AI, you eliminate that process unless you create a simulated process. And it it's just not the same. And I don't think it'll have the same longevity of the something that's actually created by hand. But but you know, like I said, it there's it has its pros and cons. So this this is just my speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: My take on it now, I think can change or whatever. speaker-0: And for some and for some folks that that ⁓ that have a I talk to a lot of people that have ideas for a kid's book or something like that, but they just don't have a budget. speaker-1: you know yeah yeah ⁓ that that's why i said tell us even ⁓ you know for animators i mean you know they got the animation ai and all that like if you can get your thing done ⁓ it's conceptual you know creating things conceptually yeah i think it's a tool and if if that's gonna work for you cool and i i don't i don't have a problem with that i'm just saying i just like to see process ⁓ but speaker-0: Tell your story. Yeah. Tell your story. Same. Yep. speaker-1: I mean, even if I could use something to to create, I wouldn't want to make a brother man movie AI, but I could see using AI to create a treatment. Like this how it won't. But I would still ultimately want it done by people. Yeah. So I could show people. This is what I'm talking about. You know what I mean? So that's why I say, you know, there's pros and cons. I'm I don't it's not for me to say what What should be used and not used? Right. speaker-0: The way I explain it to people is I'll use AI for things that I don't want to be. You know, I want to be an animator, I want to be good at art, I want to be a good illustrator, so I work towards that and I'm not going to use AI towards that. But if I'm trying to do research on something, if I'm trying to, you know, if there's some supporting activity to what I want to be when I grow up, I'll use AI for that. speaker-1: And the the accounting, like you say ⁓ strategy, mark like marketing strategies, it's really good for that. That's helped me. speaker-0: I've I've had a full conversation with Chat GPT where ⁓ because one of my ultimate goals is I want to start a creative studio, ⁓ specifically in Chicago, where I grew up, where nobody gave me a chance, where nobody knew when I when I said I want to be an animator, I want to draw for a living, I want to do make movies and stuff. Nobody knew what the hell I was talking about. So I want to create a place for kids like me that might be creative. ⁓ and they'll have access to things, ⁓ to software, to hardware, to whatever, to people that will teach them how to do this stuff. Yeah. ⁓ and so in Chat GPT, I had a conversation. We came up with a ⁓ a business plan. ⁓ we came up with a budget. We came up with possible funding opportunities. We came up with how I can leverage being a veteran. We c we talked about how I can leverage being Latino. We talked about all this stuff. And so now it's sitting there. But again, because we keep talking about having to pay bills and be grown ups, is sitting there. I haven't been able to focus on it because I'm doing all this other stuff. But that's there and that's what I'm using Chat GPT for. For some of these bigger bigger ideas. speaker-1: Yeah, that but that's the exciting part because I I have ⁓ like laid out a lot of strategies for me, like you know, how I can relaunch certain things. Yeah. And a lot of things were my you know, like ⁓ I had brain fog on for a long time. I because sometimes it's hard for me to go to sleep sometimes 'cause 'cause when well actually I put it like this. I you ever know, you know, when you you're going to bed is usually when the thoughts The the thoughts that kind of ⁓ cloud your mind come hit you like when it's time for bed, like ⁓ man, how am I gonna do this? How am I gonna figure this out? But now I got chat, I'll be like, ⁓ wait a minute. Hey, how can I fix this? How can I streamline this? And be like, ⁓ wow, yeah, great though, great idea. You know what I mean? Like how again speaker-0: Yeah. It makes you feel good about it. That that's a great idea. ⁓ speaker-1: Man, ⁓ yeah, yeah, we could do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, gets me all hyped up. And I'm just like, but it does make sense. I was like, ⁓ okay, okay. So yeah. So first thing in the morning, we can hit this, this, get hit the ground, you know, get off the ground running with this. And then next thing you know, I can sleep better because I just, you know, oops, this thing that's been bothering me all this time is now fleshed out in my head. And then I fall right to sleep. Like I'm not. Up here trying to figure out man, I'm gonna resolve this, resolve this. I mean, you still gotta put the work in. But like you said, when you get to it, you get to it, but at least it feels good. Now I I have the I have it strategized now. You know, and because for the longest time we didn't have that type of access where, you know, you're just going to the library trying to figure things out. And some of the simple things you're trying to figure out take all day or a whole weekend. And you might still not get it figured out. But now I get figured out in a few minutes and I'm like. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Okay, that's what I'm talking about. So that that's to me, that's that's the part I appreciate. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But you know, that's part of the what they say, that's part of the ⁓ the takeover, the ⁓ the Skynet takeover. First you have first you have ⁓ the introduction, and then you have the ⁓ the we're in second stage ⁓ where you get you build the ⁓ the need, the need for it. You know what I mean? speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: And then the Thursday got Thursday just to crush you. That's I think that's when the the androids come in. But you know, but I'm loving stage two, because it's just like what am I gonna do without it, man? They got me, man. They got me. We're there. Yeah, but speaker-0: Build up the demand. Like it's not like so back when animation first started, people were drawing pictures. And then they went into the three D realm. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: That's kind of the same. speaker-1: Yeah, and and I mean this this is why I mean like to me, I even even when I say that, I'm not even stressing it. I said I think anytime something new comes, there's always the the fear factor. Uh-huh. And then what happens, society starts to adjust and it just becomes the norm. Yep. ⁓ because people were saying that in the beginning, like when we just talking about the digital tablets, and they thought people wouldn't be drawing on paper anymore. People still draw on paper, people still paint. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: It's it's it's just it's just something additional to what we do and then we find ways to to merge and mash it up or maybe I do a little bit here. Some people they they don't wanna have the digital, they just wanna have this. Some people do both. So you know. speaker-0: Worth the ⁓ Yeah. And I can only imagine, like today, is probably the same feeling that illustrators had when they invented the camera. Everybody back then, from what I understand, I'd I read up on it, but I wasn't there. But from what I understand, all of the illustrators were very nervous because you could draw a thing and then it would go on the newspaper. Or now here's this guy with his box. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And he just pushes a button and the picture shows up. And now you send that picture to the newspaper. And now you don't need illustrators anymore. speaker-1: Cause yeah, because the illustrators always had to that's why we had so many Renaissance paintings and stuff like that. Because that was the that's what ⁓ documented the portraits. speaker-0: One hundred percent activity. And now we got now we got Tik Tac and Instagram. ⁓ And it used to take time. You used to have to sit there and be like, no, hold still. And then you put in paint on the canvas and speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I didn't think I didn't think about it like that. But I I I did hear about some other things. Like they thought dishwashers when the dishwasher came along that I I forgot what they thought that was gonna replace. But every every new invention I think. speaker-0: Please ⁓ speaker-1: I don't know what it what it was, but ⁓ yeah, and and also me, I don't know, just me personally, just in general, I don't live in fear. Right. I mean, I I don't live in fear of what's to come because nobody knows what's to come and I don't have time to think about what is a thing. I had I just wanna live I gotta live and enjoy my life. Think about ⁓ what's supposed to happen tomorrow. I said, yeah, then this is and live up the best today. You don't know what's gonna happen. And then next thing you know, tomorrow turns out to be like the greatest, the greatest day you ever had. You know what I mean? Like you don't know. So that's why you know when people talk about stuff, you know, the the fear factor stuff. I said, Come on, man, I don't know. It might be true, it might not be true. In the meantime, I'm I'm enjoying these moments. Right. Because that's all that speaker-0: Me for me at the end of the day, I want to be a storyteller. You're gonna come to Carlos to see how he tells this story. It just so happens that I want to do it with film and animation. and you can go to literally anyone. You could go to Disney and watch their AI stuff. You can go to Not even Disney, but whomever else is leveraging the stuff to make their movies and their animations and stuff like that. But it's still that's them. Like if I wanted to check in on Brotherman comics, I know I have to go to Dawoo. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: I'm not I'm not going anywhere else because I enjoy the way you tell stories. I enjoy seeing the way that you make these stories unfold. You know? Yeah, yeah. Disney kid, I I'm not interested in Disney telling your story. I'm interested in you telling your story. You know? Yeah. So yeah, I'm like you. I'm like whatever. That's it's not AI is never gonna be me. speaker-1: That's a drawn through soul, man. That's is it comes from the it comes from within, man. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: And once we once we understand that, then that's where that's why I said that's where the the elimination of the fear when you're when you're not secure in yourself, I think that's when people live in fear. Yeah. When you know that you when you understand your value and you understand that you're unique, because I know everybody they're told that they're unique, but I don't think they really believe it or they really know it. But then I think once you really know it, you don't You don't have that fear. And I think what also what helped me was when I was ⁓ 18. Yeah, that's 18 when I first started airbrushing at the mall in Philly. And that was my first time really putting my art creating artwork in front of a crowd. And back then it was jumping, like everybody was down there every week. And I was right there in in in the food court. And so ⁓ Like I said, I never thought of myself as being number one, even though people down there they'd be gassing you up, like, man, that's the man, blah, blah, blah. I just never really bought into that. I just knew I had a value, I understood I had a value. But I never worried about if somebody else set up right next to me and started airbrushing. Yeah. Because back then I always felt like, you know, if somebody else set up and started airbrushing over there, and say they do these fire portraits, they're really good at portraits. And that's not my forte, but I'm doing these cartoons or whatever. And I'm like, okay, he's gonna this, he or she is gonna have their audience and I'm gonna have my audience. I can't imagine a thousand people that come in the mall, the one thousand people are gonna go to this person and I get zero. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like there's gonna people people that's gonna go there and people come here. So I understood that at an early age. So I never I was never that type of person that felt as though. speaker-0: Uh-huh. speaker-1: I didn't have a place in the market. ⁓ I just understood people have you find your audience. Right. I understood that way back in the day. And now with social media, people should really understand that that, you know, you could do you could do ⁓ teddy bears with sparkly stuff on on them and you'll find an audience. speaker-0: Right. You just have to give yourself time. Mm-hmm. That's all it is. speaker-1: Yeah, you you just put it and you just gotta believe in it and and put it out there. Like you said, you give it time and you gotta you gotta know. And then once it finds its audience and blows up, all these people say, I didn't even know people were into that. speaker-0: But ⁓ speaker-1: Not for you to know. It's you know what I mean? It it exists. So that's why I tell people I say, you know, you know, you know artists, young artists coming up, I kind of sometimes feel bad because these artists are going to school and they come out of school and and a lot of them are feeling ⁓ challenged by it. I guess it's that whole John Henry thing, you know, it's you versus the machine. Yeah, and the machine is taking the jobs and a lot of the young people are feeling like there's no not gonna be an opportunity for them. And I have young people I talked to and I said, I said, yo, the the the machine is not you. You have you you have to believe in yourself. Right. I said, see, number one, no, you know how the machine will defeat you? By number one, you just gave up on yourself. The machine didn't even have to do anything yet. You gave up on yourself. speaker-0: Yep. You didn't even show up to play. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. There you go. And that's what I try to break, break down to them. I said, yo, just do your thing. And then he's just like young people who skills, I'm just like, they're like, I feel like I wasn't even killing it like you at your age. Okay, they're accelerated at like 18, 19, 20 years old. speaker-0: You know what Hosean? But they don't insanely talented. speaker-1: They don't believe in themselves ⁓ because they don't have a job at a major studio. ⁓ they're not hiring here. So why if nobody if they're not you create, you can create what you want. You have all the tools. We didn't have all those tools back then. speaker-0: Yeah. You know the studio system. The studio system is fine, but I I see the studio system just just another artist. It's it I mean, obviously they're talented, but they're just they're just and competition is the wrong word, but you know, if you wanna if you wanna go there or if you let's use that word, I have to compete against a bunch of other artists for said job or to tell said story. And for me, the studio system is just another artist. It's just another person, you know, like. It's no there's no fear. because like what we are saying, it's this is the way I tell stories, this is the way I draw something, this is the way I do this. You know, and and for younger artists, if you really want to work at one of those studios, keep working on your stuff. And exactly like your story is the perfect example. You're working on your own stuff, and people were approaching you. Just do that. Just do that. And then hopefully, you know, if if your stuff is good, Brother Man comics good, you'll be a showrunner. And at the end of the day, that's what the majority of artists want to be is they want to run their own thing. You know, they want to tell their own stories. They just you just need the funding from over there. Okay. Or jump on chat GPT and figure off funding that way. speaker-1: That man, that's so there's so many opportunities that sometimes I don't understand how some people say they don't know what to do. And I say, you know, you got even before chat, you had a phone that had access to the to the world. I said we didn't we ain't had none of that stuff. And we were always making stuff happen. Kids would come up with stuff, you'd be like, speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. speaker-1: And that was the exciting thing, you know. So ⁓ yeah, but you know, this this is where we are now, and we're just in a new age. But I think ⁓ mentorship is still a valuable thing. Access, I think young people, they still need mentorship. speaker-0: One hundred percent. ⁓ speaker-1: Because it's for speaker-0: It's the story of the two bulls on the hill. Have you ever heard this one? There's two bulls on the hill. There's there's an older bull and a younger bull. And then at the bottom of the hill, there's a bunch of cows. And the younger bull is just full of piss and vinegar. And he's just like, Let's run down there and have sex with the cow. Like just rush down there and have sex with the cow. And the older bull is like, or we could just walk down and have sex with them all. It take your time. It takes time. It takes time to get to get where you want to be. And if you rush into something, that's that's where you start to make mistakes and that's where you start signing maybe the wrong deal, or you know, take your time. It's it's no rush. Yeah. Yeah. With that being said, do you have any do you have any like new IPs or anything that you're gonna be working on? Are you focused on on this graphic novel? speaker-1: Well, no, as far as new IPs, nothing in the in the works right now. ⁓ cause cause it like I said, this graphic novel is gonna take me into next year, finishing this up. ⁓ the book that we just completed, me and my brother ⁓ this ⁓ for Harper Collins is Bad Boy just dropped, which is ⁓ life of ⁓ Walter Dean Myers. speaker-0: Uh-huh. speaker-1: Award-winning ⁓ children's book author who passed away. He's also the author of Monster. And we ⁓ I did the ⁓ me and my brother did the adaptation of that. He passed away right when we finished Monster. And then Harper Collins approached me and my brother about doing the the biography of him, the adaptation. ⁓ so that just dropped in September of this year. ⁓ and then you know, I did the book victory stand with ⁓ author Derek Barnes, which is about the life of ⁓ gold Olympic gold medalist Tommy Smith. ⁓ we came out with that one ⁓ a couple years ago and that that got the ⁓ it was a national book award ⁓ nominee and Coretta Scott King Award winner. That was multiple award winners. and I did a couple books with Kwame Alexander which was the crossover. book which is a s it was about soccer ⁓ becoming muhammad ali with ⁓ james james patterson and kwame alexander wrote that together and then also there was an adaptation of monster to film it's on netflix ⁓ with ⁓ I think Nas had something to do with that and speaker-0: Yes, I speaker-1: Yeah, that's a lot, a lot of major people on that. And the crossover was adapted to ⁓ Dis Disney Plus series. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ damn. speaker-1: Yeah, there's a lot a lot of stuff going on. Like so, even when I wasn't working on Brotherman, I was telling people, nah, I was constantly working on there's a lot of things I'm working on now. ⁓ and then not to mention like my own things that I'm trying to get off the ground. And and really the fine art is just tapping back into myself, things I just want to do for myself. Cause I always wanted to just at the end of the day, when the money comes, when I finally get to the point where it's just I don't have to worry about generating money or working for anybody, drawing for people. I just want to paint. Travel the world, paint, draw, conventional. ⁓ not even for the sake of being the best, just just to explore new things and so ⁓ but yeah, okay. Can I give my ⁓ links or do that that speaker-0: Yeah. And create Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Let everybody know where they can find you. speaker-1: Well Okay, I have ⁓ brothermancomics.com. That's brothermanc o ⁓ i c s dot com. ⁓ my personal art page is anabuile.com, a-n-y-a-b-w-i-l-e dot com. ⁓ Instagram, it's brotherman comics with the X. Dawood underscore Anya Buile. And then my new art channel is Sevaloon Studios. That's S E. E v a l-un e studio. S-v-a. S-e-b-a-l-un e studio. And that's that's Instagram, but I also have ⁓ if you want to buy any of the original paintings that I'm doing, that's you can go on eBay and type in Sevaloon Studio, and you'll see all the All the paintings I'm doing, I'm posting up there. So you can either auction for them or I have some buy it now. speaker-0: Excellent. Thank you again, sir. ⁓ Coming to hang out. I started seeing a lot of those pictures of ⁓ of you painting and stuff. And then I started seeing a lot of the new Brotherman comic ⁓ stuff. And I just that I needed to tap back in. I was like, let me let me come reconnect. ⁓ because yeah, man, like it's been a couple of years since we speaker-1: Like speaker-0: Caught up with each other and speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. A few more grays since you saw me. But ⁓ hey man, it's wisdom, man. That's wisdom. I said. speaker-0: You know what I'm saying? That's what I well I had I had shaved all the way down and people kept talking to me like I was young. I was like, let me grow this out so folks know I've been through some things. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. We talk to you. Yeah, and and ⁓ yeah, you know, I really appre appreciate coming on and ⁓ and and like I said, one of the things, the reason why you're seeing ⁓ the stores and everything, that was part of what chat helped me clear up because I knew I had to do all these things and I was just feeling overwhelmed every day. And I try to put spend all day doing one thing. And yeah, that's that's one of the things ⁓ that ⁓ chat did help me. just lay out how to ⁓ compartmentalize my day so I'm not stressed out. And but I'm getting everything done. Yeah. You know. speaker-0: So and and as a reminder, I am a resource. Reach out. Don't be shy. I'm in this room all the time working all the time. speaker-1: Yes, sir. Yeah, I think a lot I think a lot of us, man, we we are in our space, man, and ⁓ and and it I don't know, I think that's just what happens. We it's like we just get caught up in our world. But yeah. But yeah, same here, man. You know, it's not limited to just just here. I like building real relations thing. And ⁓ speaker-0: So yeah, I got I got ⁓ I got a bunch of friends and really close friends that live in Atlanta too. So one of these days I've been threatening to come visit. I'm gonna get all you guys in a I don't know, old country buffet. We'd all go eat and be it'd be crazy. It'd be fun to hang out with some of you guys out there. speaker-1: Just Yeah. All right, well, hey, I'm I'm here, man. I'm I'm like you, man. I'm being this room. Once I sign out, I gotta jump right back on this book. But yeah, but once again, man, I really appreciate you, you know, and I hope hope what we shared is is helpful, especially to some of these young folks out here, like they're looking for some guidance. speaker-0: No. Nah, don't be scared. Cannonball. And with that everybody, we out. speaker-1: You know it. Alright, please. Coconut and chestnuts.