Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Jessica Brugmans and Jody Harrison are fighting for people that having to appeal decisions when it comes to their NDIS disability support funding

Transcript

Jessica Brugmans and Jody Harrison are fighting for people that having to appeal decisions when it comes to their NDIS disability support funding · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Now you will know if you listen to the show regularly.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: There have been a few occasions where we've spoken to
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  Speaker 2: territorians who've had concerns about the way in which they've
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: been able to get their funding and support through the NDIS,
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  Speaker 2: and it does seem as though it can be quite
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  Speaker 2: a difficult process for a lot of territorians. And then
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  Speaker 2: when the point comes where maybe they have their plans approved,
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  Speaker 2: they're missing different parts or it maybe doesn't go as
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  Speaker 2: far as what they'd initially hoped. And is there a
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  Speaker 2: process then that they can go through to try and
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  Speaker 2: get support. Is there somebody out there who's advocating for them,
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  Speaker 2: and what can they do? I suppose now joining me
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  Speaker 2: in the studio right now is the Darwin Community Legal Service, Well,
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  Speaker 2: Judy Harrison, who is indeed the principal solicitor. Good morning
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  Speaker 2: to you, Judy. There you go, yeah, good, Thanks so
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  Speaker 2: much for joining us in the studio. And then we've
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  Speaker 2: also got Jessica Brugman's I apologize Jessica if I've pronounced
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  Speaker 2: your surname correctly, Please correct me if I need to be.
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  Speaker 2: The senior advocates with Seeingers and Disability Rights Service. Thank
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  Speaker 2: you so much for your time this morning.
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  Speaker 3: And that was pretty close.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you. Always try my best.
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  Speaker 2: Now we know that the Darwin Community Legal Service, the
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  Speaker 2: disability advocacy services in Alice Springs and also obviously right
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  Speaker 2: around the territory here in Darwin too. You know, I'm
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  Speaker 2: assuming that you do deal a lot with different territories
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  Speaker 2: who've been impacted in different ways when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: the NDS and some of the concerns I suppose that
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  Speaker 2: they have in terms of accessing that support, that should
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  Speaker 2: be quite an easy process, but maybe isn't as.
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  Speaker 1: Easy as it should be Jessica.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely, that's right. So we provide advocacy supports,
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  Speaker 3: so that's specialist advocates that help people disability with any
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  Speaker 3: excess planning and also reviews. Yeah, and then we also
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  Speaker 3: have a legal service that can help people when, as
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  Speaker 3: you say, there's decisions and plans are impacted and they
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  Speaker 3: evolve into an appeal. So we're seeing a huge demount
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  Speaker 3: of people and changes have been made to their plans,
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  Speaker 3: funding has been cut, often with no real obvious reason,
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  Speaker 3: and then people get stuck in a really long drawn
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  Speaker 3: out process and that's where we try and assist. But yeah,
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  Speaker 3: as you said, we're just seeing a really big increase
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  Speaker 3: in that.
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  Speaker 2: That must be really hard, you know, because ultimately we're
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  Speaker 2: talking about people who are trying to access a program
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  Speaker 2: that is that's meant to be created to help them.
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  Speaker 2: So then when they're going through that process and there's
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  Speaker 2: been a cush or there have been you know, it
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  Speaker 2: maybe doesn't.
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  Speaker 1: Go as far as what is required, I would.
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  Speaker 2: Assume that it has a massive impact on them duty
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  Speaker 2: and it'll be quite difficult trying to navigate all of that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Katie, I imagine that quite a few people
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  Speaker 4: that are listening to you that have got some experience
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  Speaker 4: of the NDIS, which might be their own experience, or
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  Speaker 4: it might be a family member or somebody that they
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  Speaker 4: care for, know exactly the kinds of problems that are happening,
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  Speaker 4: and if those problems are not happening to them at
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  Speaker 4: the moment, they're probably hearing about those problems. So although
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  Speaker 4: the scheme is meant to help, and it does provide
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  Speaker 4: a lot of help, there really are serious problems at
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  Speaker 4: this stage, and the problems are amplified in the Northern
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  Speaker 4: Territory for lots of reasons, but including remoteness and the
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  Speaker 4: special services that people do need.
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  Speaker 2: What are some of the firstly, what are some of
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  Speaker 2: the problems that people are experiencing at the moment.
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  Speaker 3: So we're seeing people who may have quite a stable
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  Speaker 3: NIS plan for quite a long time. Now they go
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  Speaker 3: through a regular scheduled review process and then suddenly they're
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  Speaker 3: seeing their funding cut, often quite dramatically. We've had clients
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  Speaker 3: where it's been twenty fifty percent or sixty percent of
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  Speaker 3: their support packages and then suddenly they are having to
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  Speaker 3: prove again that they do need their supports while also
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  Speaker 3: dealing with the fact that those supports are no longer
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  Speaker 3: funded at that time. And it's a massive burden both
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  Speaker 3: in administration, collating evidence, paying for reports, and again here
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  Speaker 3: because in the territory we don't have that many specialists
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  Speaker 3: or ellet help professionals, people end up in long wait
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  Speaker 3: times and that further just worsens the situation and it's.
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  Speaker 1: Just his really big delay.
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  Speaker 3: So people are facing and getting supports that they need
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  Speaker 3: for their daily life.
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  Speaker 2: We caught up with one of our listeners a few
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  Speaker 2: weeks ago, Macca, and he's in a wheelchair and he
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  Speaker 2: had described to us, you know, some of the situations
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  Speaker 2: that other territorians are going through right now, and he
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  Speaker 2: had said that, you know, for some it means that
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  Speaker 2: they don't have a care of go around over the
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  Speaker 2: weekend to be able to check on them to see
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  Speaker 2: that they are okay, and that some of these cuts
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  Speaker 2: are having a huge impact for you know, for people
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  Speaker 2: who could be listening this morning or family members listening
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  Speaker 2: this morning. So it does to me it seems like
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  Speaker 2: it's it's a bigger issue than.
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  Speaker 1: What a lot of us might realize.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And that's exactly does impact. If someone loses
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  Speaker 3: CARES or cares hours, it might mean that they can't
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  Speaker 3: leave their house. In some extreme cases, it might mean
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  Speaker 3: that they have to be admitted to a hospital because
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  Speaker 3: they're no longer safe to be at home. It also
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  Speaker 3: leads to increased isolation because people are less likely to socialize.
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  Speaker 3: So there's just really big immediate effects that are not
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  Speaker 3: that easy to see from the outset.
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  Speaker 2: But then further adding to this is then trying to
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  Speaker 2: access I would assume some support or justice for those
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  Speaker 2: people that are going through this situation.
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  Speaker 1: What can they do?
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  Speaker 4: So, as you can imagine, because this is a government scheme,
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  Speaker 4: there are review processes and those review processes are in
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  Speaker 4: the legislation and the process tells us what the criteria
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  Speaker 4: are and generally it tells us how the procedure is
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  Speaker 4: supposed to operate. But what we're seeing is that there's
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  Speaker 4: a high rate of plan cutting going on by the
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  Speaker 4: NDIA in relation to the NT, which is out of
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  Speaker 4: proportion to other jurisdictions. So the statistics which are public
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  Speaker 4: which we watch say to us that the issues are
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  Speaker 4: more severe in the Northern Territory. There's likely to be
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  Speaker 4: more people that need to seek a review of the
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  Speaker 4: decision that's been made in their case. So initially they
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  Speaker 4: can seek an internal review. We have people reporting and
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  Speaker 4: we're working with them, and so we're also seeing all
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  Speaker 4: kinds of problems with that process. It's not sufficiently expert.
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  Speaker 4: The decisions are often not fair, they haven't taken into
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  Speaker 4: account the material which is available, and so people feel
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  Speaker 4: diminished by that process. So they feel angry often but
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  Speaker 4: also demeaned by the process. They have a right of
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  Speaker 4: appealing on further and that's to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.
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  Speaker 4: So that's an independent external review mechanism which also deals
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  Speaker 4: with other matters experiencing an enormous upsurge in appeals by
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  Speaker 4: NDS participants or people affected by NDS decisions. So they've
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  Speaker 4: got a backlog and it's affecting their process and their responsiveness.
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  Speaker 4: So we are trying to continue support both advocacy support
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  Speaker 4: and some legal assistance to people who need to proceed
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  Speaker 4: into the aat Unfortunately we don't have enough resources. NT
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  Speaker 4: Legal Aid did have resources, but as finding that the
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  Speaker 4: amount that they received from the Department of Social Service
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  Speaker 4: to be completely inadequate to do the job. So they
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  Speaker 4: advised us in February that they were going to cease
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  Speaker 4: service because the funds were so inadequate and we don't
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  Speaker 4: know whether that situation has been improved for the coming
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  Speaker 4: financial years. So there's actually a crisis in the Northern
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  Speaker 4: Territory in relation to legal representation and advocacy support in AATP,
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  Speaker 4: and that's denying Territorians their rights and denying them at
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  Speaker 4: a rate in excess of other jurisdiction. So we're in
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  Speaker 4: a really bad way.
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  Speaker 2: And Judy, I would imagine that we are speaking about,
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  Speaker 2: you know, people who are in a vulnerable situation as well.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so the things that we said previously, so when
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  Speaker 4: you add this to that situation. It's just so unacceptable.
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  Speaker 4: It's so impossible to imagine that this could even happen,
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  Speaker 4: that there wasn't or hasn't been the planning, and once
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  Speaker 4: the problem is there, that there hasn't been an immediate,
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  Speaker 4: at least short term solution to avoid these people being
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  Speaker 4: the meat and the sandwich.
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  Speaker 1: What needs to happen here?
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  Speaker 2: What do we need to see for those territorians that
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  Speaker 2: are in this situation right now?
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  Speaker 3: I think initially what we need is just more funding,
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  Speaker 3: both for advocacy and also to ensure that there is
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  Speaker 3: legal representation available for people who do go to the AAT,
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  Speaker 3: and that would just be the first short term thing
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  Speaker 3: that needs to happen. But then beyond that, we've seen
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  Speaker 3: that there's never really been any kind of review into
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  Speaker 3: what this should look like, who should be funded, what
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  Speaker 3: kind of funding is needed, and do that on a
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  Speaker 3: based on the demands of the territory and not just
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  Speaker 3: our population. So all of that should have to will
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  Speaker 3: have to occur in the long term to make sure
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  Speaker 3: that we don't end up in this situation again.
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  Speaker 2: Now, is this something I'm assuming that this is something
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  Speaker 2: that's been raised with the Northern Territory government. Have you
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  Speaker 2: had much feedback from them?
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  Speaker 4: I would say yes that there's been really good engagement
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  Speaker 4: by the Northern Territory government and you would really expect
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  Speaker 4: that because it crosses over so many different program areas,
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  Speaker 4: areas of responsibility, so it covers not only disability but
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  Speaker 4: also health. It touches on education, gets us into women
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  Speaker 4: and children and young people. Children who are in the
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  Speaker 4: care of territory families, some of them have indias plans
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  Speaker 4: and some of those plans have cut. People who are
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  Speaker 4: looked after by the Officer of the Public Guardian some
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  Speaker 4: of those plans have been cut. So there's all a
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  Speaker 4: plethora of reasons why the Anti government is highly engaged
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  Speaker 4: in this issue. However, it's a Commonwealth funding responsibility and
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  Speaker 4: the Northern Territory, I assume, has been really proactive in
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  Speaker 4: trying to provide a solution. Maybe the current federal election,
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  Speaker 4: in one way, is not a good time for this
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  Speaker 4: to be happening, So you would think, well, it could
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  Speaker 4: be because maybe candidates and political parties would be responding
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  Speaker 4: to this issue. But the particular thing that we are
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  Speaker 4: talking about about ins appeals to the Administrative Appeals tribunal
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  Speaker 4: seems to be really stuck. So maybe the election happening
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  Speaker 4: and we get to the other side of the election,
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  Speaker 4: then everything's operating again and hopefully that can be an
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  Speaker 4: immediate for the territory. It also has a flow on
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  Speaker 4: effect on employment because when people's plans are can't the
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  Speaker 4: people whose services they're contracting to provide the specialist assistance
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  Speaker 4: that they need can't be paid. So we know of
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  Speaker 4: service providers who have continued to work and consequently they're
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  Speaker 4: carrying unpaid bills. And if that continues, then there's not
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  Speaker 4: going to be the workforce around to be providing the services.
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  Speaker 4: So we've already got problems about that, so having this
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  Speaker 4: happen on top of it is really an additional pick.
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  Speaker 4: And so we're really looking for a fast solution after
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  Speaker 4: the election. So hopefully within a month of the new
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  Speaker 4: government forming this will be treated as a priority issue,
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  Speaker 4: will have a solution for this aspect of the problem
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  Speaker 4: in the territory.
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  Speaker 2: Well, please keep us up today with how things go.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's really important that territorians are aware of
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  Speaker 2: what's going on, and I'd be really keen to catch
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: up with you again after the election to see whether
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  Speaker 2: there's been a change in this.
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  Speaker 1: Space or not.
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  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you both taking the time to come
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  Speaker 2: in this morning and have a chat.
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  Speaker 1: With us as well.
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  Speaker 3: No, absolutely, thanks for having us.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and that was indeed well Jess
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  Speaker 2: Brugman's nd SD senior Advocate and also Judy Harrison, the
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  Speaker 2: dc ls SO Darwin Community Legal Service Principal Solicitor, And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it is definitely a concern, there is no doubt about that.
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  Speaker 2: So we will make sure that we catch up with
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  Speaker 2: them again after the federal election and see if there
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: has been some movement in this space. I think we're
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: all hoping that there is