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High school 'PUPPY LOVE' TURNS MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and they called it poppylove.
0:15
Speaker 1: How does poppylove end? In murder Crime Stories with Nancy Grace?
0:34
Speaker 1: Sixteen year old Sierra Halseth dated Aaron Guerrero from June
0:38
Speaker 1: to December of last year, and their future plans caused
0:41
Speaker 1: parental concerns. While the teens were dating, Daniel Halseth contact
0:45
Speaker 1: to Guerrero's parents. He told them the teens were planning
0:48
Speaker 1: on running away together, and the parents agreed the teens
0:51
Speaker 1: should no longer have contact with each other. It's as
0:54
Speaker 1: old as Romeo and Juliet, but in this case everything
0:59
Speaker 1: goes sideways. And now we've got a dead body that's
1:04
Speaker 1: neither the girlfriend nor the boyfriend. With me an all
1:07
Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it all. Kathleen Murphy,
1:10
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer, joining us out of North Carolina and
1:13
Speaker 1: you can find her at NC Domestic Law dot com.
1:17
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, joining us out of the
1:21
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Justin Boardman,
1:26
Speaker 1: former Detective Special Victims Unit, West VALLEYPD, and you can
1:31
Speaker 1: find him at Boardman Training and Consultant at Justin Boardman
1:36
Speaker 1: dot com, doctor Priya Banerjee Board certified forensic Pathologist, President
1:42
Speaker 1: of Anchor Forensic Pathology at Anchor forensic Pathology dot com.
1:47
Speaker 1: But straight out to Alexis Terreschuk, crime online dot com
1:51
Speaker 1: investigative reporter and also with lead Stories dot com. Alexis,
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Speaker 1: let me understand this. The daughter was six teen years
2:00
Speaker 1: old and she's dating and eighteen year old Aaron Guerrero.
2:04
Speaker 1: The daughter, Sierra Halseth. How long had they been dating?
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Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe six or seven months. That's it,
2:12
Speaker 1: just six months. They started dating in the summer and
2:15
Speaker 1: then by December they had broken up. That's we thought,
2:19
Speaker 1: really bizarre. They had broke I heard what you said,
2:22
Speaker 1: Alexis Rushchuk, they had broken up. We thought, you know,
2:26
Speaker 1: let's hear that cut from our friends at crime online
2:29
Speaker 1: one more time. Take a listen. Sixteen year old Sierra
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Speaker 1: Halseth dated Aaron Guerrero from June to December of last year,
2:36
Speaker 1: and their future plans caused parental concerns. While the teens
2:40
Speaker 1: were dating, Daniel Haltseth contact to Guerrero's parents. He told
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Speaker 1: them the teens were planning on running away together and
2:47
Speaker 1: the parents agreed the teens should no longer have contact
2:50
Speaker 1: with each other. Well, I guess so, Kathleen Murphy joining
2:54
Speaker 1: us family lawyer out of North Carolina. Family law is
2:58
Speaker 1: anything but family line it. I tell you, I've told
3:02
Speaker 1: you before, Kathleen Murphy. I'd rather try serial killer than
3:05
Speaker 1: stick my arm in between two people in a heated
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Speaker 1: divorce case, much less when children are involved. Kathleen, You've
3:13
Speaker 1: got a sixteen year old girl an eighteen year old boy,
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Speaker 1: and they're planning to run away together. I guess the
3:20
Speaker 1: parents did try to stop it. What the parent really
3:23
Speaker 1: to do with a sixteen year old Nancy? I mean,
3:25
Speaker 1: the reality of that situation is that starts long before
3:29
Speaker 1: they turned sixteen, and when they have an hacrimonious divorce
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Speaker 1: such as these folks had, there's a lot Oh yeah, yeah,
3:38
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. Because sierras As parents
3:45
Speaker 1: were I guess I would say quasi famous in certain
3:48
Speaker 1: circles because the dad, Daniel Halseth, had been married to
3:54
Speaker 1: a Nevada State Senator, Elizabeth Halseth, and the two of
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Speaker 1: them had three children together, including Sierra Van. There was
4:04
Speaker 1: an acrimonious divorce, right Kathleen, that's correct, and in Nancy,
4:08
Speaker 1: I would also say the mother has remarried, so there's
4:11
Speaker 1: a step family situation involved here. And again this child
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Speaker 1: is probably manipulating both sides of the court. Back to
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Speaker 1: Alexas Terrestchuk, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, this all
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Speaker 1: goes down in Vegas, Am I correct? Yep, in Las Vegas.
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Speaker 1: But yet hell says gets as car stolen and it's
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Speaker 1: found in Salt Lake City, so that is true. The
4:34
Speaker 1: police its Halsis mother. Let's start with her. She is
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Speaker 1: desperately trying to reach her son for days. She kept calling, calling, calling,
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Speaker 1: couldn't reach him. She actually called Sierra that her granddaughter
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Speaker 1: who lives with her dad, and said, I am not
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Speaker 1: able to reach your dad, and the granddaughter said, well,
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Speaker 1: you know what, It's okay, Grandmam. He's in the shower
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Speaker 1: and his phone is broken, so don't worry about it.
4:56
Speaker 1: He's all fine. As a matter of fact, Alexa Terestchuk
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Speaker 1: is EA actually correct. So not only seemingly does the dad,
5:05
Speaker 1: Daniel Helseth go missing, but then they find out the
5:09
Speaker 1: team girl is gone. To take a listen to Jackie Howard,
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Speaker 1: Crime Online Investigators track the teens through surveillance footage. The
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Speaker 1: initial footage showed the pair leaving the neighborhood in Daniel
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Speaker 1: Halset's Blue Niecean Ultima. Surveillance footage at Winco shows Halset
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Speaker 1: buying two gallons of bleach and a gallon of orange juice.
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Speaker 1: Footage from home depots showed Guerrero buying saws and gloves. Okay,
5:33
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's just me, Alexis to Roschuk, but
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Speaker 1: when I hear about somebody being in a stolen car
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Speaker 1: and they're buying bleach and saws and tarps, I can't
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Speaker 1: think anything good. Okay, nothing good comes out of that scenario.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about what was found on the surveillance video.
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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck, and they're in how says, stolen car, right,
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Speaker 1: They are in the dad's stolen car and they are
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Speaker 1: driving around to multiple stores near the home, local stores
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Speaker 1: what the police have described as big box stores. And
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Speaker 1: they have also see so on top of the bleach,
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Speaker 1: orange juice, which maybe they were thirsty, and then a tarp.
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Speaker 1: They also were spotted buying a chainsaw, a hacksaw and
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Speaker 1: another type of saw, so three different saws police saw
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Speaker 1: them purchase online on video. You know, Alexis terres Chuck,
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Speaker 1: have you ever gone at home depot? Yes, and you
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Speaker 1: look around and you see somebody buying a chainsaw and
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Speaker 1: somebody else buying a tarp. I guess it's just this
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Speaker 1: line of business. But you know, I can't think anything
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Speaker 1: good when I say that now, and especially not these
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Speaker 1: super young kids like decent. You know, if you see
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Speaker 1: a professional person, you know, buying the chainsaw, you think, oh, well,
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Speaker 1: he's gonna go cup on a tree for work. But
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Speaker 1: when you see a teenage girl and a teenage boy
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Speaker 1: buying them, nothing that can happen from that. And they
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Speaker 1: went to multiple stores, and to you, doctor Angela Arnold,
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Speaker 1: you know, very often police make a rest on a
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Speaker 1: quote hunch and then they're attacked and torn apart by
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Speaker 1: the press and the defense attorneys. But I gotta tell you,
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Speaker 1: for those of you who just joining us, we're talking
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Speaker 1: about two teen lovers. You go on the run. Then
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Speaker 1: they're spotted in a home depot and other places buying
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Speaker 1: things like chainsaws, gloves, bleach. But I mean, right there,
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Speaker 1: when you see a teen girl like Alexis Terreschuk just said,
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Speaker 1: buying a chainsaw and bleach and gloves. Oh that's a hunch,
7:47
Speaker 1: all right. It's a red flag, isn't it. I mean,
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Speaker 1: what teen girl does that? Teen girls go and get
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Speaker 1: their nails done and their hair done. They don't. That's
7:55
Speaker 1: a little bit of a stereotype to chop people up.
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Speaker 1: And I don't know that's a little bit of a stereotype,
8:00
Speaker 1: doctor Angel Arnold, Because are you girls? My little girl
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Speaker 1: goes out and pitches a tent. That's how to start
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Speaker 1: a fire, all right. So you know, I don't know
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Speaker 1: that I would stereotype my little girl this weekend. But
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Speaker 1: I will say, I mean, agree disagree, Jackie. When you
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Speaker 1: see a dream girl and her eighteen year old boyfriend
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Speaker 1: buying a chainsaw, bleach and plastic gloves, that just screams
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Speaker 1: arrests me. Well, it all comes to a head. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to this. Daniel Halseth's mother was worried she
8:30
Speaker 1: hadn't heard from her forty five year old son and days.
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Speaker 1: She contacted police for a welfare check and also asked
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Speaker 1: a family friend to check on Halseth. At the request
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Speaker 1: of Las Vegas police, Halseys landlord went to the home
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Speaker 1: on April ninth, the landlord and another person found Halseys
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Speaker 1: body in the garage. Now that's something I understand, Alexister escheck.
8:51
Speaker 1: I mean, the banner is Daniel Halseth, the dad in
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Speaker 1: the scenario, the one who wanted to stop the relationship
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Speaker 1: between his daughter's year of sixteen and boyfriend erin Guerrero eighteen,
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Speaker 1: is found dead in the garage. But why does the
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Speaker 1: landlord find them? Well, the mom, Daniel's mom had called
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Speaker 1: the police master a welfare check. I think maybe, you know,
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Speaker 1: it's forty five. They only a few days. They thought
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Speaker 1: maybe there was nothing to worry about, you know, it's
9:20
Speaker 1: a pandemic, or you know, its phone died. But the
9:23
Speaker 1: landlord went and checked it out. And the thing is
9:26
Speaker 1: they kind of noticed actually it wasn't a perfect situation.
9:30
Speaker 1: The front door was ajar, so the landlord walked in
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Speaker 1: and that's when they saw all of this horrible crime scene.
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Speaker 1: They saw it. There was evidence that something had been burned,
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Speaker 1: but there had been a fire inside the house. There
9:44
Speaker 1: was an obvious cleanup of a crime scene, an attempt
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Speaker 1: to clean up a crime scene. It didn't look Christine.
9:51
Speaker 1: And then they found that they went into the garage
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Speaker 1: and inside they saw a body. Crime Stories with Nancy
10:09
Speaker 1: Grace to Justin Boardman, former Detective Special Victims Unit, West
10:14
Speaker 1: Valley CDPD, now Boardman Training and Consulting and you can
10:19
Speaker 1: find him at Justin Boardman dot com. Justin you have
10:23
Speaker 1: handled so many cases, thousands of cases in your career.
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Speaker 1: You know when you hear the door was a jar,
10:32
Speaker 1: that sounds like an innocent thing, right, But the reality
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Speaker 1: is when you're in a residential area and you see
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Speaker 1: someone's door ajar in this day and age, that bespeaks
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Speaker 1: of some where I'm doing. Did you see a door open? Well? Absolutely?
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Speaker 1: And here's where I'm having a hard time understanding is
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Speaker 1: if they called in a welfare check to the police department,
10:59
Speaker 1: we would we would drive out and we would see
11:02
Speaker 1: if we could peek in the windows and see what's
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Speaker 1: going on, and if we saw a doeor jar, we
11:08
Speaker 1: would do a welfare check. So we would go in,
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Speaker 1: make sure that everybody is fine, and then we would exit.
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Speaker 1: Because you could have you could build up the reasonable
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Speaker 1: suspicious suspicion to go outside and it would have been
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Speaker 1: discovered right then. I'm not understand why that did not happen.
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Speaker 1: I'm not understanding that either, because police go for a
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Speaker 1: welfare check, but yet they get the landlord to go in.
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that means, but I do know this.
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Speaker 1: I know that the daughter and her boyfriend were extremely
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Speaker 1: angry because, let me understand this, Alexis Terreschuk. Her dad,
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Speaker 1: Daniel Halseeth, calls the boyfriend, Aaron Guerrero's parents and says, look,
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Speaker 1: I found out they're going to run away together. We
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Speaker 1: got to stop this thing. What happened Alexis He figured
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Speaker 1: out that they were they had a plan, they were
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Speaker 1: going to run away to Los Angeles together, and he
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Speaker 1: there also is a thing that two of them together
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Speaker 1: stole one thousand, three hundred dollars. Her mom looked and
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Speaker 1: realized that there had been sort of in low level
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Speaker 1: amounts for her. I guess it was a low level amounue,
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Speaker 1: A couple two or three hundred dollars leading up to
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Speaker 1: one thousand, three hundred dollars they had stolen from her.
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Speaker 1: So they had this money and they were planning on
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Speaker 1: running away to Los Angeles. So the dad got very concerned.
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Speaker 1: She's only sixteen years old, he's only eighteen, and he
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Speaker 1: calls the other parents, and he says, this is what
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Speaker 1: our kids are doing, and the other parents agree. They say, oh,
12:38
Speaker 1: this isn't good at all. We need our kids to
12:40
Speaker 1: stop this. This is a really crazy plan, and so
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Speaker 1: they agree these two kids should not be seeing each
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Speaker 1: other again. Guys, I'm trying to figure out how puppy
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Speaker 1: love turns into a murder plot. To doctor Angela Arnold,
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Speaker 1: psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta and Angela Arnold MD
12:57
Speaker 1: dot com, Doctor Angie, are feeling so powerful your first
13:03
Speaker 1: love that you're basically willing to do anything? I mean,
13:06
Speaker 1: I've heard of teens sneaking out of the house or
13:10
Speaker 1: staying out after curfew, no, but stealing over a thousand dollars,
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Speaker 1: stealing a car and winding up at home depot buying
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Speaker 1: a champe of Nancy. There's a there's a level of
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Speaker 1: pathology there. We I think it would be so wrong
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Speaker 1: to just make a blanket statement say well, maybe kids
13:27
Speaker 1: do feel so strongly about each other in this puppy
13:30
Speaker 1: love that they know there is a level of pathology
13:34
Speaker 1: in this way of thinking. What I've also been thinking
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Speaker 1: about during this whole thing. You know how we always
13:39
Speaker 1: talk about how kids brains don't really develop fully develop
13:42
Speaker 1: until there's twenty five years old. Okay, that may be true,
13:46
Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm talking about puppy love. This is
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Speaker 1: so much different than puppy love, isn't it. There may
13:51
Speaker 1: have been some puppylove at the beginning, but these kids
13:54
Speaker 1: plotted and planned and then to try to actually, oh
14:00
Speaker 1: my god, to murder your own father and then try
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Speaker 1: to dismember him in your garage. Well, you're right. Take
14:06
Speaker 1: a listen to David Charns eight News Now Vegas. Daniel
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Speaker 1: Halseth is the father of one of these teenagers, and
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Speaker 1: police say his sixteen year old daughter and her eighteen
14:17
Speaker 1: year old boyfriend or accused of killing him and then
14:19
Speaker 1: trying to cover it up. Aaron Guerrero is one of
14:22
Speaker 1: those teenagers. Police arrested him Tuesday in Salt Lake City
14:26
Speaker 1: and that's where he's in jail tonight. Now. We are
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Speaker 1: not naming the sixteen year old due to her age.
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Speaker 1: Guerrero's arrest report says police found the body of Daniel
14:34
Speaker 1: Hulseth almost quote fully burned. Guerrero's parents told police their
14:39
Speaker 1: son and his girlfriend had planned to run away to
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Speaker 1: Los Angeles together last year. But when they learned this,
14:46
Speaker 1: they and Halseth said the teens could no longer see
14:48
Speaker 1: each other. Now, the day before the murder, more than
14:51
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars was taken out of Hulseth bank account. Wow,
14:55
Speaker 1: so taking money out of a banking account stealing a
14:59
Speaker 1: car at equals premeditation under the law. But let's analyze
15:03
Speaker 1: what we have just learned from eight News. Now Vegas,
15:07
Speaker 1: Alexis jump in. So these kids had planned this, they
15:10
Speaker 1: had stolen the money. Well, you please quit calling them kids, okay,
15:14
Speaker 1: because this man has been brutally murdered and they tried
15:19
Speaker 1: to dismember him and burn the body. Now they're still kids.
15:22
Speaker 1: They are still kids. Go ahead that I guess that's
15:25
Speaker 1: a matter of interpretation. Go ahead, please. So the kids planed,
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Speaker 1: the teams, they planned to do this, They got they
15:32
Speaker 1: went shopping. They first of all, they stole money from
15:34
Speaker 1: her mom, and then they went shopping at these big
15:36
Speaker 1: box stores. They bought saws, they bought tarps, they bought
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Speaker 1: bleached they bought everything that probably that you would watch
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Speaker 1: on TV or a movie. Let me think of ways
15:44
Speaker 1: to cover up a crime. But they're never going to
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Speaker 1: get away with this because they just leave a mess
15:51
Speaker 1: in the house and when the landlord comes in, he
15:54
Speaker 1: sees immediately he sees there's been a fire in the house,
15:58
Speaker 1: like they lit the house on fire. Then he goes
16:00
Speaker 1: they go in the garage, they see what they assume
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Speaker 1: to be a body and probably not that close, but
16:05
Speaker 1: it's big enough to be a man burned. And there
16:10
Speaker 1: is gasoline. There's a smell of gasoline all in the house.
16:13
Speaker 1: And that's what he said me first, as it smells
16:15
Speaker 1: like there's been a fire, smells like gasoline in here.
16:17
Speaker 1: So this couple went all around town to purchase the
16:20
Speaker 1: supplies to commit this crime. Joining me in right now.
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Speaker 1: Special guest Board Certified Forensic Pathologists, President, Anchor Forensic Pathology
16:29
Speaker 1: at anchor forensic pathology dot com, Doctor Priya Banerjee. Doctor Preya,
16:35
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Explain how difficult it
16:39
Speaker 1: is to actually burn a human body to the point
16:42
Speaker 1: it can no longer be recognized. Thank you for having me.
16:47
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say that these are extremely horrific cases,
16:51
Speaker 1: as you would imagine because usually with an accelerant like gasoline,
16:57
Speaker 1: it's a rip roaring fire. These people are just really
17:00
Speaker 1: burned beyond recognition, so you know, the outside is just
17:05
Speaker 1: totally damaged. The interesting part about this though, is an
17:10
Speaker 1: I know credit to the Nevada Medical Examiner's Office that
17:13
Speaker 1: you can still see the injuries inside, so I know
17:18
Speaker 1: that they were able to do the autopsy and determine
17:21
Speaker 1: that he was stabbed to death. So really that's the job,
17:27
Speaker 1: you know, and to figure out did he die from
17:28
Speaker 1: other injuries or did he die from the fire. Nonetheless,
17:32
Speaker 1: as a mother, I can't even imagine a daughter, you know,
17:37
Speaker 1: doing this to her father. This is just horrific. Well
17:40
Speaker 1: how difficult. I'm thinking back on the case of Teresa
17:43
Speaker 1: Hallbock and Stephen Avery, and they shot to fame with
17:47
Speaker 1: making a murderer Teresa Hallbox's body. She was a young
17:52
Speaker 1: photographer who was lured to the home of Avery, was
17:58
Speaker 1: raped and murder She was shot dead and then her
18:02
Speaker 1: body was burned in the backyard. Avery, the killer, basically
18:08
Speaker 1: stirred the fire pit well into the night. All that
18:13
Speaker 1: was found was I think some teeth and the Daisy
18:18
Speaker 1: Fuentus studs that were on the back of Teresa's blue jeans.
18:25
Speaker 1: She had been totally burned, but that fire went through
18:30
Speaker 1: the night into the next day. So my question again,
18:34
Speaker 1: doctor Priya, is how difficult is it to actually burn
18:38
Speaker 1: a human body to the point there's no DNA left,
18:42
Speaker 1: there's unrecognizable and all the evidence is gone. Oh yes,
18:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I think these are slightly different scenarios, but
18:50
Speaker 1: burning a body is hard. I mean cremation or you know,
18:53
Speaker 1: an extended fire needs to be tended to, like see
18:57
Speaker 1: avery example you gave. I think in this ample it's
19:01
Speaker 1: it's you know, set ablaze, but maybe not stoked for
19:05
Speaker 1: as long. So probably the father's body was a little
19:10
Speaker 1: bit more intact where they could see the injury, right,
19:14
Speaker 1: But still it's horrific. I mean the body will burn, Yes,
19:18
Speaker 1: it is horrific. So I guess the bottom line would
19:20
Speaker 1: be it's really difficult to burn a body beyond recognition.
19:36
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace guys teen Love Puppy Love
19:45
Speaker 1: turns into premeditated murder where a man's body stab and
19:50
Speaker 1: nearly burned beyond recognition an attempt to burn down the
19:55
Speaker 1: entire home to cover up the crime is a working
19:58
Speaker 1: theory right now, take a our friends at eight Knees
20:01
Speaker 1: now Vegas Metro police they found the body of forty
20:04
Speaker 1: five year old Daniel Helseth in this West Valley home Friday.
20:08
Speaker 1: His sixteen year old daughter and her eighteen year old boyfriend,
20:11
Speaker 1: Aaron Guerrero, are accused of killing him and trying to
20:14
Speaker 1: cover up the crime. Lieutenant Ray Spencer is releasing more
20:18
Speaker 1: details for the first time. There had been items purchased
20:22
Speaker 1: such as lighter fluid that was used to light the fire.
20:26
Speaker 1: There was also the purchase of a chainsaw in a
20:29
Speaker 1: circular saw and a handsaw where attempts to dismember his
20:33
Speaker 1: body were made prior to the fire. The teens were
20:38
Speaker 1: missing since Friday, and also David Charms eight knees Vegas
20:42
Speaker 1: Police found two folding pocket knives in the home's kitchen
20:46
Speaker 1: that had been cleaned the cause of death, multiple stab wounds,
20:50
Speaker 1: and we also police also saying that there was a
20:52
Speaker 1: handsaw found in that home with blood on it. Detectives
20:56
Speaker 1: say the teenagers purchased bleach, a saw, gloves and other
21:00
Speaker 1: items at two stores the day that they believe the
21:03
Speaker 1: murder happened. And they also say that those teenagers tried
21:06
Speaker 1: to dismember that body. You know their reality is to
21:10
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina, domestic law expert. These two have
21:14
Speaker 1: been watching way too many movies. They go out and
21:17
Speaker 1: buy a circular saw, handsaw, bleach, gasoline, or a lighter, fluid,
21:23
Speaker 1: plastic gloves and think they're gonna pull this off. It's
21:28
Speaker 1: not that easy. Again, way too many movies and way
21:33
Speaker 1: too their brains are not even fully developed this they say.
21:36
Speaker 1: But I will say, Nancy, this is not a funny situation.
21:41
Speaker 1: But it's repeated over and over and over again, and
21:45
Speaker 1: we have all these trend shows. I'm just like, it
21:48
Speaker 1: just goes to show that there is a phenomena where
21:53
Speaker 1: these children are not even able to comprehend that the
21:58
Speaker 1: actions that they take. Only think of an eighteen year
22:02
Speaker 1: old young man as a child, or I don't either
22:05
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old girl at home depot. I mean,
22:09
Speaker 1: there were plenty of times for her to back out
22:11
Speaker 1: of this, the murder off her own father. Maybe when
22:15
Speaker 1: she bought the bleach, Maybe when she bought the circular saw,
22:19
Speaker 1: or the pocket knives where they tried to clean her
22:22
Speaker 1: father's blood off. Maybe when she was pouring gasoline or
22:25
Speaker 1: light or fluid all over the home would have been
22:28
Speaker 1: a time that she could have backed out. But just
22:30
Speaker 1: in Boardman, former detective with Special Victims Unit. She didn't.
22:35
Speaker 1: She didn't, and which is surprising to me. You know,
22:40
Speaker 1: the puppy love is certainly turned their brains into mush
22:43
Speaker 1: a little bit here and not thinking through things and
22:47
Speaker 1: certainly not being understanding how they were going to cover
22:53
Speaker 1: up this crime. There wasn't any way. You know, we
22:56
Speaker 1: were talking about knowing the stab wounds. It's a bat
22:59
Speaker 1: and analogy, but if you've ever burned a marshmallow, it's
23:04
Speaker 1: just brings the top part and not the inside, and
23:09
Speaker 1: so you would also be able to get the stab
23:11
Speaker 1: wounds there and the trauma. So trying to cover this
23:16
Speaker 1: up was just sloppy. Sloppy, Yeah, yeah, Well I imagine
23:22
Speaker 1: that they thought when they daused the home with gasoline
23:27
Speaker 1: or lighter fluid, that they would burn up the whole
23:30
Speaker 1: home and that he would be burned to a point
23:33
Speaker 1: where the stab wounds would not be evident. I mean
23:36
Speaker 1: back to you, doctor Pria Bannergy Board certified Forensic Pathologists
23:39
Speaker 1: and President of Anchor Forensic Pathology. Doctor Pria, how does
23:46
Speaker 1: a medical examiner determine cause of death when the body
23:50
Speaker 1: has been burned, for instance, in this case, stabbing you
23:53
Speaker 1: know it's hard, and you know, I just do want
23:56
Speaker 1: to highlight first of all, that marshmallow analogy is great.
24:01
Speaker 1: You know, it's really accurate in how we see the
24:04
Speaker 1: bodies the outside of unrecognizable. But because of the difficulty
24:09
Speaker 1: to fully burn a body into ashes, which is probably
24:12
Speaker 1: what they thought was going to happen, we can peel
24:16
Speaker 1: away the burned outside and still see the inside and
24:20
Speaker 1: that's where the stab ones are really going to become apparent.
24:23
Speaker 1: Let me be blunt, as you have to do if
24:25
Speaker 1: you're analyzing a murder case in court. Prosecutors are not
24:31
Speaker 1: allowed to introduce autopsy photos because they're believed to be
24:38
Speaker 1: too inflammatory for a jury, too upsetting. The only way
24:43
Speaker 1: autopsy photos can be introduced, usually in front of a jury,
24:47
Speaker 1: is if that autopsy photo you just heard doctor preyer manager,
24:51
Speaker 1: you say the outer layer pulled back. What she's talking
24:55
Speaker 1: about is the skin. So you'll be showing a jury
25:01
Speaker 1: a picture, a photo of a body that had essentially
25:04
Speaker 1: been skinned by the medical examiner. Why why is this necessary?
25:09
Speaker 1: It is necessary to actually show the jury the stab wounds.
25:14
Speaker 1: Is it pleasant? No, But it is the duty of
25:17
Speaker 1: the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what happened,
25:23
Speaker 1: and if that includes autopsy photos, then so be it
25:28
Speaker 1: so that a jury in this case would see photos
25:31
Speaker 1: of the victim Daniel House, which is forty five years old,
25:34
Speaker 1: burned body, but you wouldn't be able to see cause
25:37
Speaker 1: of death. So then the medical examiner is going to
25:41
Speaker 1: have to make the typical t bone incision and skin
25:47
Speaker 1: will have to be pulled back to show the under
25:50
Speaker 1: layer where the stab wounds went. How deep would a
25:54
Speaker 1: stab wound have to be, doctor Priya, in order to
25:58
Speaker 1: kill somebody, I guess it would depend on where they
26:00
Speaker 1: were stabbed, exactly right, And I guess want to clarify
26:02
Speaker 1: that in this case, maybe you do want to show
26:05
Speaker 1: the outside because there might not even be skin left
26:08
Speaker 1: if he's burned beyond recognition. So you know, that's how
26:12
Speaker 1: horrific this crime could be. You know, anything burned, anybody
26:16
Speaker 1: burned can really have nothing left on the outside that's recognizable.
26:21
Speaker 1: So the photos are horrific, but sometimes are very demonstrative
26:25
Speaker 1: of the crime. And yeah, I think you're right, doctor Manage.
26:29
Speaker 1: And then you know, it really depends where you're stabbed,
26:31
Speaker 1: but it could be you know, anywhere, like the neck
26:35
Speaker 1: can be so huperficial. It doesn't even have to be
26:38
Speaker 1: a stab. Really, you can just be sliced across the
26:40
Speaker 1: neck and you're you know, half inch and you could
26:43
Speaker 1: be dead if the coroti or the jugular hit the
26:46
Speaker 1: heart maybe you know, three four inches. So it's up
26:49
Speaker 1: close and personal and very violent. And we know that
26:54
Speaker 1: pin Nice just purchased pin Nice, which are the size
27:00
Speaker 1: of a pen Right for a pen knife to be
27:04
Speaker 1: a murder weapon, doctor Pria Banerjee, you'd have to cut
27:08
Speaker 1: the person in just the right place, because a pen
27:11
Speaker 1: knife is not usually deemed lethal. Right. You just have
27:15
Speaker 1: to hit a major oregan or blood vessel exactly right,
27:19
Speaker 1: you know, deep. But it doesn't have to be a
27:22
Speaker 1: very wide hit, right, It just has to be deep
27:25
Speaker 1: and foot on target and you're good to go. I
27:27
Speaker 1: hate to be that crude about it. Crime stories with
27:43
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, you know, I just wonder how these two
27:49
Speaker 1: lured the dad to his own death, his own sixteen
27:53
Speaker 1: year old daughter. I mean, when my daughter calls me
27:55
Speaker 1: or my son, they go mom, I go straight back there,
27:59
Speaker 1: straight to their room or wherever they are. That's probably
28:01
Speaker 1: what happened here. Hey dad, bam, he's dead and Kathleen Murphy,
28:06
Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer, joining me out of North Carolina.
28:09
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, think about it, Think about it. You keep
28:12
Speaker 1: calling them kids, Oh, these crazy kids. Well they lured
28:16
Speaker 1: the father to his death. Think about this, and I'm
28:20
Speaker 1: going to frame of mind course of conduct, modus operu,
28:25
Speaker 1: and die that he was then burned. They tried to
28:31
Speaker 1: burn down the house to cover up the crime. That's
28:37
Speaker 1: some planning. You know. You can keep calling kids all
28:40
Speaker 1: you want to devil kids. Yes, I don't disagree with you, Nancy,
28:44
Speaker 1: but I will say that it just proves to me
28:49
Speaker 1: that the brain is not fully developed until a child.
28:53
Speaker 1: Or you can say that about every murder they murdered someone.
29:00
Speaker 1: Oh their brain must not be developed. Oh they should
29:02
Speaker 1: be helpless. You know what. There's so many things I
29:09
Speaker 1: could say, but I'm gonna trying to force forward. Uh,
29:14
Speaker 1: let me go to you, doctor Angela Arnold. I think
29:17
Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna say, and I don't think
29:18
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like it, but go ahead hit me. I mean, Nancy,
29:23
Speaker 1: it's it's just the fact that their brains aren't fully developed.
29:26
Speaker 1: It's not an excuse. Okay, there is still Like I
29:30
Speaker 1: said before, there is still such a pathology of kids
29:34
Speaker 1: never never have the idea of killing their parents. And
29:40
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here thinking, also, Nancy, can you imagine that
29:44
Speaker 1: they watched him burn? We're talking about what his burned
29:48
Speaker 1: body looked like after it was burned, Nancy, they watched
29:52
Speaker 1: the man burn how and and the smell and all that.
29:56
Speaker 1: I mean, how disgusting is that? Right? And it really
30:01
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they were in love.
30:04
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what scenario this took on. Does it
30:09
Speaker 1: they play it? I can, Okay, I get the whole
30:11
Speaker 1: running away together. Yeah, murder him, right, Guys, take a
30:16
Speaker 1: listen to our friend Vanessa Murphyton and Spencer says the
30:19
Speaker 1: team daughter had stolen her father's car and there was
30:23
Speaker 1: also money stolen from him. Both teams were taken into
30:26
Speaker 1: custody in Salt Lake City, Utah, Tuesday morning. The family
30:30
Speaker 1: of Heal Seth provided this statement to the I Team. Quote,
30:33
Speaker 1: our family is heartbroken this has happened to Daniel. We
30:37
Speaker 1: loved Daniel beyond words. He loved his children and was
30:40
Speaker 1: an amazing father. We ask for privacy and respect for
30:44
Speaker 1: the family at this time. And quote Lieutenant Spencer tells
30:48
Speaker 1: the I Team detectives were interviewing his daughter Tuesday. We
30:52
Speaker 1: do know that the father had recently made comments that
30:56
Speaker 1: he did not want his daughter dating Aaron. Now in Nevada,
31:01
Speaker 1: a teen sixteen and older is automatically charged as an
31:05
Speaker 1: adult for the charge of murder. You're hearing that now
31:09
Speaker 1: they are going to be charged as an adult for
31:12
Speaker 1: the murders. Jump in Alexis terrest check. What can you
31:14
Speaker 1: tell me? Well, I think it's interesting that the kids
31:16
Speaker 1: the teams were playing a runaway to Los Angeles, but
31:21
Speaker 1: instead they run away to Salt Lake City and they
31:23
Speaker 1: actually got on a train without a ticket, and that's
31:27
Speaker 1: how they got busted. The conductor was going around checking
31:30
Speaker 1: for tickets and the boy said, I don't have a ticket,
31:34
Speaker 1: and Andrew Barrero, the eighteen year old, because I don't
31:37
Speaker 1: have a ticket, So they arrested them there. This was
31:39
Speaker 1: just a lucky happenstance that the conductor was asking for him.
31:45
Speaker 1: Whyn't saying, you know what, that's okay, I'll let you go. Sometimes,
31:48
Speaker 1: you know, people might think that, but instead, nope, said
31:50
Speaker 1: that's now you got to get off. And then the
31:52
Speaker 1: police were called and they were arrested for the scribe.
31:54
Speaker 1: So they had gotten pretty far away, you know, to
31:56
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. It was almost like the Los Angeles
32:00
Speaker 1: part of the story was not true, and that was
32:03
Speaker 1: the secret. That was what they were saying, but secretly
32:05
Speaker 1: they were going somewhere else. It's not the first time
32:08
Speaker 1: that teams have murdered their parents. Take a listen to
32:13
Speaker 1: our friend Laurence Stevenson WJFW. Thirty seven year old Thomas
32:17
Speaker 1: Ayres and forty year old Jennifer Ayres had been killed.
32:20
Speaker 1: Investigators linked seventeen year old Rhinelander High School student Ashley
32:24
Speaker 1: Martinson to the deaths of her mother and stepfather. Oneida
32:28
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Captain Terry Hook wouldn't confirm when the murders happened,
32:32
Speaker 1: but a source we trust told us the couple was
32:35
Speaker 1: killed on Saturday after an argument with Ashley. Oneida County
32:40
Speaker 1: deputies put out a nationwide alert to law enforcement to
32:44
Speaker 1: help arrest Martinson, who they consider a suspect. As we
32:47
Speaker 1: were getting information, we were making contact with agencies as
32:51
Speaker 1: farther and further self, so they were aware that we
32:53
Speaker 1: were looking and they were keeping a lookout for us.
32:56
Speaker 1: Hours later, a Boone County, Indiana Sheriff's deputy recognize the
33:00
Speaker 1: car Martinson was believed to have been driving. He arrested
33:03
Speaker 1: Martinson and her boyfriend, twenty two year old Ryan Daniel Cisco.
33:08
Speaker 1: Right now, investigators do not believe Cisco was involved in
33:11
Speaker 1: the killings. Once again, the daughter flees with a teen boyfriend,
33:17
Speaker 1: and in that case, not one but both parents killed.
33:21
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut thirteen. This is about
33:23
Speaker 1: seventeen year old Alyssa Hatcher. Seventeen year old Alyssa Hatcher
33:27
Speaker 1: was arrested by Lake County deputies yesterday. New six is
33:30
Speaker 1: Jerry Askin is following this story. He is live at
33:33
Speaker 1: the Lake County Sheriff's office. And Jerry, you learned the
33:36
Speaker 1: suspect as a senior at New Matilla High School. Lisa, yes,
33:40
Speaker 1: but right now she's sitting in juveno jail facing felony charges.
33:43
Speaker 1: And deputy say her friends told a school resource deputy.
33:47
Speaker 1: That deputy told investigators here in Lake County, and right
33:50
Speaker 1: now we're asking Lake County Sheriff's deputies to release more.
33:54
Speaker 1: There's nothing that your parents can do till you bid.
33:57
Speaker 1: You're grounded. A car's taken away. You can't go to
33:59
Speaker 1: the whatever for you to get to this point right now,
34:02
Speaker 1: as Lake County investigators are piecing together why they say
34:05
Speaker 1: seventeen year old A Lissa Hatchers stole her parents debuty
34:08
Speaker 1: card and pay two guys to try and kill them,
34:11
Speaker 1: they want to remind other kids there's help out there.
34:14
Speaker 1: That's why they have the counselor set up in school
34:16
Speaker 1: for things like this. But you know, as far as juvenile's, teenagers,
34:20
Speaker 1: never let it get to this point, get them help,
34:24
Speaker 1: help for what. You can't go to the prom, you
34:27
Speaker 1: gotta curfew, I'm taking your phone away. Really help. Well,
34:33
Speaker 1: here's another fifteen year old de Jonah Holmes in Kansas City.
34:37
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Fox for Kansas City.
34:40
Speaker 1: You were just hearing Fox six in Florida, listen. Fifteen
34:44
Speaker 1: year olds Ajana Holmes was initially taken into juvenile detention,
34:47
Speaker 1: but now she's facing second degree murder charges as an adult.
34:51
Speaker 1: Court records alleged Dajohonas called nine one one and said
34:54
Speaker 1: her family's home had been robbed her parents shot, but
34:57
Speaker 1: when she met with officers, she told them she was
34:59
Speaker 1: scared and in fact, her father Brian Starr had shot
35:02
Speaker 1: her mother kinderly, She grabbed the gun then killed her
35:05
Speaker 1: dad in self defense. Investigators say they found drawings in
35:08
Speaker 1: Dejana's backpack with a stick figure labeled me, who was
35:12
Speaker 1: holding a gun pointing at another stick figure labeled dad,
35:15
Speaker 1: and award to search her phone, which found web searches
35:18
Speaker 1: for scary movies where kids kill parent. But family members
35:22
Speaker 1: insisted this was just a scared child who is not
35:25
Speaker 1: a violent killer. Okay, a scared child, not a violent killer.
35:31
Speaker 1: But she's looking up scary movies where kids kill parents.
35:36
Speaker 1: I mean, justin Boardman, a former detective Special Victims Unit,
35:40
Speaker 1: what more do you need to take to a jury
35:43
Speaker 1: where the team is looking up scary movies for a
35:46
Speaker 1: kid kills parent? You know, I don't think much much
35:50
Speaker 1: more than that, especially with the internet searches and doing
35:57
Speaker 1: the research. I think the defense worse would be the
36:02
Speaker 1: maturity level and so forth. But I think that's that's
36:07
Speaker 1: the smoking gun, so to speak. You know. Straight by
36:10
Speaker 1: to Alex's Terrest Crime online dot com investigative reporter, you
36:14
Speaker 1: and I covered the case of Jamie Sylvanic of Upper
36:19
Speaker 1: mccunjee Township. She went out to a concert with her boyfriend.
36:25
Speaker 1: The mom had met them at a diner. There had
36:29
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk about whether she could go
36:30
Speaker 1: to the concert or not, and it made the daughter
36:34
Speaker 1: so angry. The mother was trying to curtail her sex
36:40
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend that she texted her boyfriend, mom has
36:45
Speaker 1: quote got to go. Boyfriend murders mom in the car
36:50
Speaker 1: parked outside the home and the dad was asleep. He
36:55
Speaker 1: said he heard a car horn beep a couple of times.
36:57
Speaker 1: That didn't think anything of it. As I recalled, the
36:59
Speaker 1: boyfriend was murdering mom because she was sick of the
37:02
Speaker 1: two of them having sex all over the basement. I mean,
37:07
Speaker 1: I don't get it. Now. You hear doctor Angie's saying
37:10
Speaker 1: their brain isn't formed. Well, you know what. That may
37:13
Speaker 1: be true, but the mom is still dead and in
37:16
Speaker 1: this case, the dad is still dead. Are you sure?
37:20
Speaker 1: Both of these two defendants, Aaron Guerrero and Sierra Hell,
37:24
Speaker 1: So they're going to be treated as an adult and
37:26
Speaker 1: tried for murder. That is the law in Nevada. That
37:29
Speaker 1: that's what they don't have junailport for people under sixteen,
37:34
Speaker 1: and she is sixteen and he is eighteen, which is
37:36
Speaker 1: an adult in every state in the country. So that's
37:39
Speaker 1: that's how it isn't Nevada that the laws haven't changed.
37:42
Speaker 1: There are no special circumstances that they would change this
37:44
Speaker 1: under that's just not the way the law is set
37:47
Speaker 1: up there. And these kids, you know, she lived with
37:49
Speaker 1: her dad too. She hadn't complained, you know, she hadn't
37:53
Speaker 1: moved in with mom as, she hadn't changed her living
37:55
Speaker 1: situation because maybe, you know, if you lived with mommy,
37:57
Speaker 1: could sneak out with the boyfriend a little bit easier,
38:00
Speaker 1: which she did. And there was no indication up until
38:04
Speaker 1: two days before when they were caught on video buying
38:07
Speaker 1: the weapons to murder him, that this was a plot
38:10
Speaker 1: that they had. It was that they were going to
38:12
Speaker 1: run away together. So they could have just stolen dad's
38:15
Speaker 1: car and run away together, but instead they went completely
38:19
Speaker 1: done of their age. Neither of these are ever going
38:21
Speaker 1: to get the death penalty, but the thought of killing
38:26
Speaker 1: your own father so you can go have sex with
38:30
Speaker 1: your teen boyfriend, A jury is not gonna like that
38:35
Speaker 1: at all. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime
38:39
Speaker 1: Story signing off good Bye Friend,