Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 139. The personal brand mistake most working moms make — Jenn Wint

Transcript

139. The personal brand mistake most working moms make — Jenn Wint · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Jen went yes, welcome to the all figured out podcast.
0:03
Thank you so much for having me. I feel like I've known you
0:06
forever. I agree.
0:07
You're one of those people. I think our souls have known
0:11
each other forever. Oh my gosh, the number of
0:12
episodes recently I've done that have gotten pretty woo woo is
0:15
like incredible. I love it.
0:17
I'm here for all of it. This is all figured out.
0:25
I'm Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
0:28
a mom of two, and I absolutely believe that you can continue to
0:32
grow personally and professionally while protecting
0:35
family time. We're about to figure out this
0:39
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
0:49
I'm so pleased to have you, um, we've gotten to know each other
0:52
in the beautiful entrepreneurship community of
0:55
Vancouver. You are somebody that everybody
0:58
knows. You are somebody that every
1:00
publication, every business knows of as this like, I don't
1:04
know how to say this other than like absolute Steady Eddie in
1:07
the PR world. Like you've just got like the
1:09
classic chops. And when I've described you to
1:12
people recommending that they come to see you, I'm like, I was
1:16
thinking about like the people who really follow trends or
1:19
they're really like they niche down in their business in a way
1:21
that's like, are you going to be around next year?
1:24
And you're someone who just, again, I just consider
1:26
classically trained. You're like, it is like not at
1:30
an old way. I know that's why you're
1:32
laughing. But no, no, I'm taking all of
1:35
this as a compliment. In that you're like you will be
1:38
relevant and around for many, many years.
1:39
To come. Oh, I hope so.
1:41
You're just fabulous. So thanks for coming on you.
1:45
For having me. So I'm excited you're here to
1:47
talk about a lot of things with me, and you're one of those
1:50
people. We can just do one of these
1:51
episodes where we're going to go all over the place.
1:54
I want to hear about how you got into PR, What is PR?
1:58
Your motherhood journey which was unique and special and all
2:01
the things and just chat about like what does life look like
2:06
now juggling you two kids? Two kids, yeah.
2:09
And an Irish husband. Yeah, we were talking about the
2:13
work that you do as an Irish family and building community
2:16
and all the things. So let's take it back.
2:18
Tell me, how did your early career unfold in this world?
2:24
Very different world of PR back. That yeah, very, very different.
2:28
I'll try and keep this short, but so I have a double major in
2:33
sociology in English. So I was always into writing and
2:36
always into people. And so when I graduated, I knew
2:38
I wanted to do something like that.
2:40
But I moved to Australia the moment I graduated, actually
2:44
before my graduation ceremony. And I got a job in the reception
2:48
of a real estate company and after a couple of months, I
2:51
thought being a receptionist is way too hard.
2:53
There are too many buttons on the phone.
2:54
There are too much mail to sort. It's like not I have.
2:57
I'm not in my zone of genius. So I was such a hard reception
3:01
part. I don't even know there's
3:02
receptionist anymore. But that is a.
3:04
That's a tricky role. Oh yeah, you're on the phone,
3:07
there's people coming in, there's mail.
3:09
There's it was it was hectic and there was lots of cute boys.
3:13
Australian cute Australian boys. Exactly.
3:16
Um, so anyway, I resigned from that job and they said to, they
3:19
said to me, we don't want to lose you.
3:20
Is there somewhere else in the business where you think that
3:22
you might fit? And they offered me like a real
3:25
estate assistant job and I said, I want to work with Beth who was
3:28
the PR manager. And so they said, OK, up to the
3:31
third floor you go. And I became a PR assistant and
3:34
that was like producing like a, a hard copy magazine once a
3:38
week. So I, I cut my chops pretty,
3:40
pretty quickly in that and I just loved it like it was I was
3:44
home. Come on.
3:47
Unbelievable. I love these stories.
3:48
It's never what you think it's going to be.
3:50
Yeah. So Fast forward to you're
3:52
working at a crown corporation here in British Columbia, Yes.
3:56
And you're doing the press releases like you're doing all
3:59
the things. Tell me, like, what if we were
4:02
to think about like that very traditional way of, you know,
4:04
PR? Look, what is it public
4:07
relations relating to the public press releases?
4:10
Like what is it actually in its essence?
4:11
Because I think that's something people think parties.
4:14
ER is super confusing for people that aren't in it, like it truly
4:18
is. And one of the reasons is
4:19
confusing is because it's evolved so much.
4:21
And then one of the other reasons it's confusing is
4:24
because you only hear about it with big brands.
4:26
And there's like the Samantha Jones, like, am I in a pencil
4:29
skirt at a fancy hotel? And like, sometimes other times
4:33
I'm like cleaning gum off the floor at something because
4:36
there's a photo shoot and I'm like, like, I've moved more
4:39
chairs and things like you really have to kind of be
4:42
willing to lean into whatever the job needs in that woman.
4:45
But yeah, I used to write a ton of press releases.
4:48
It used to be very like, you would sort of be CC, you know,
4:53
50 journalists on the same press release.
4:55
You would send the image. And a lot of the times it would
4:57
get picked up. But then what's happened is
4:59
media has evolved is there are less traditional publications,
5:04
there are way less journalists. And the the cycle like the
5:08
amount of content out there has skyrocketed.
5:12
So now these journalists have like twice the amount of
5:15
deliverables and like 1/3 a quarter of the bodies.
5:19
Interesting. OK, so you're saying that it's
5:21
like like you used to be BC seeing so something would happen
5:24
or you're working for said crown corporation that has this new
5:28
initiative and they're like, we want people to know about this,
5:31
write a press release BC all these people.
5:33
So hopefully it will become news so that we can get press on this
5:37
thing. Like that was the purpose.
5:38
Of kind of. And I think there were
5:39
journalists at their desks in an office, in a newsroom, looking
5:43
for. Stories right, right, right.
5:45
And so they were, you know, they were looking for stories.
5:48
You had stories to tell. And I'm not saying it was
5:50
easier. It was just different.
5:52
Totally. Yeah.
5:52
And you pick up the phone and be like, hey, did you see my
5:55
e-mail? And they, you know, that was
5:56
kind of how it went. Yeah.
5:57
Yeah, I was so into our facts. Who knows?
6:00
Yeah. I remember, like, early
6:02
advertising days, like we were doing weird things.
6:05
We were having to like, physically send stuff and like,
6:09
when you're trafficking different, like, I don't know, I
6:11
forgive and forget, like commercials.
6:12
And there was like so much. There was like fax machines
6:14
involved at some point. It was so bizarre.
6:18
How has it changed? So you're saying that like now
6:20
the volume, like the requirement of volume, like what we're
6:23
consuming? I'm just so fascinated as like
6:25
the consumer side. I'm a fully just a consumer.
6:27
But your media as well. This is a podcast and you're
6:30
the. Host God on media.
6:32
Have I made it? Yes.
6:34
Welcome. Definitely don't identify as
6:37
media, but you are OK. Which is a media.
6:41
Platform. OK, this is a media platform and
6:43
I'm looking for stories. I'm looking and then Jen went,
6:45
comes across my desk and I'm like, yes, hers is a story I
6:48
want to tell. Ah.
6:50
OK. I mean, I've pitched you clients
6:52
of mine, yes, you've interviewed people that I've suggested.
6:55
That's me doing my job. That's media, right?
6:58
Then there's just different platforms now, more platforms
7:01
and social. Everyone has a platform.
7:03
Everyone and their mother and their dog.
7:05
People's dogs. People literally have.
7:06
Platforms, yeah. And so now media is competing
7:10
with like, I think the big change was influencers and an
7:13
individual who we know or we don't know who has credibility
7:18
or not earns trust from their community and now they're a
7:22
trusted source, right. And then, you know, a media
7:27
platform that's been around for 50 years is sort of going, well,
7:30
what about us and the speed? Like something happens.
7:33
And I mean, Twitter was a big change of that, right?
7:36
Like something would happen. Like, let's say a building went
7:38
on fire or something like that. Yes, it's on Twitter long before
7:41
CBC can even get from their office down to send a journalist
7:44
to cover what's happening. I'm learning about it from you
7:47
because you now have your phone and you're like, Oh my God,
7:49
there's a fire. Yes.
7:50
You know, so it it's changed a lot.
7:52
So fair enough. People find PR confusing.
7:54
Very confusing, OK. And oh God, I could keep going
7:59
on that forever. OK, so so we're clear.
8:01
We're clear on what it is. Clearly unclear.
8:04
We're clearly very unclear, but you seem clear, which is good.
8:09
This gives me. Stay in my lane as well.
8:11
OK, what's your lane? What's your lane today?
8:14
My lane today is small business and Canadian businesses and
8:18
really trying to support the solopreneur, the founder, the
8:23
small business that has a great story to tell but doesn't
8:26
necessarily have like the resources or the need for like a
8:30
full blown like billboard in Times Square.
8:34
Jen went, we're going there. We need to talk about these
8:38
billboards in Times Square. OK?
8:40
Why does everybody, I think I asked you this question and you
8:43
blew my fucking mind. Why does everyone have a
8:46
billboard in Times Square right now?
8:48
Why do people that seemingly shouldn't have a billboard in
8:50
Times Square have a billboard in Times Square?
8:52
Because they have a marketing budget.
8:55
How much they're? Paying.
8:56
Geez, I don't know. I I haven't quoted a billboard
8:59
in Times Square. What's your guess?
9:00
Ever? Like I wouldn't even be able to
9:02
guess 50K. I would say upwards, yeah,
9:07
probably. I mean, it depends how long you
9:08
want it there for, right? Like if you want it up for a
9:11
week or something. Yeah.
9:12
But that's the other thing too, like sponsor, because media
9:15
platforms used to, they used to survive on advertising.
9:20
Yeah, you know that. And and then people started
9:23
spending their advertising dollars with influencers.
9:25
So then media platforms now have smaller budgets.
9:27
So then they had to embrace sponsored media, which has
9:30
changed the game a lot as well. And I think the consumer is
9:33
starting to understand sponsored media a lot more, um.
9:36
So we break it down. Break it down.
9:38
OK so let's say I'm opening a restaurant in Vancouver and it's
9:41
a pizza restaurant and I want people to know about it.
9:45
I can go to like Daily Hive Van Meg and say I'd love to do a
9:49
sponsored article. I pay a few $1000 and the
9:52
article is literally about Jenn's Pizzeria opening this
9:56
Friday. This is these are some of the
9:58
menu highlights. This is the chef.
10:00
This is how great it is. And it's it's like a advertorial
10:04
is sort of the technical term, I think.
10:07
But I've paid for it and that's OK because it totally helps fuel
10:12
these local publications. But it's a lot different than
10:16
pitching a story about like, there's a new pizzeria opening
10:19
up. It's going to be so amazing.
10:20
That may turn into like a roundup of five great pizzerias
10:25
on commercial. Drive History of pizza in
10:26
Vancouver. So it's a different story and
10:29
that's like a newer thing. Sponsored media wasn't wasn't
10:31
really around. It was an ad or an editorial
10:33
piece when I first started. I'm picturing like 17 magazine
10:37
when they'd be like that article that you're reading and all of a
10:39
sudden then you see the very top and it's like advertising and
10:42
really small font and you're like, oh, I got duped.
10:44
This is actually Loreal. Totally.
10:45
But you're also like, I don't don't.
10:46
Care. Yeah.
10:47
Like the whole article is about one shampoo and why you need it.
10:50
And they're the I mean, the laws have changed around you have to
10:52
identify something as sponsored media now.
10:54
And yeah, and it's not a bad thing.
10:56
No, it's. It's how it works.
10:57
OK, there's more pay to play. Yeah.
10:59
And I think people are understanding it more as
11:01
consumers on social media. We are getting very, we're very
11:04
comfortable and we're OK with following someone's life and
11:07
being like, you know, voyeuristic and like watching
11:09
Jillian Harris do everything. And then it's #gifted #PR.
11:13
And you're like, cool. Like, I'm OK to be looking at
11:16
this little miniature advertisement on your story
11:18
because I'm not paying you anything.
11:20
Yeah. And I get insight into your
11:22
entire life, and you're sharing with me.
11:24
Like, I actually think that's cool.
11:25
Yeah. And if you don't have social
11:27
media? Yeah.
11:28
And it's, it's how the media landscape has evolved, right?
11:31
Yeah. Super cool.
11:32
OK, take us into your So you became a well actually no, I
11:37
don't want to spoil it. So you were in this crown
11:39
corporation. I was and you you say to
11:42
yourself that you were an accidental non entrepreneurial
11:45
entrepreneur. What is that story?
11:47
How did you get into that? Yeah.
11:48
So I was working like a very corporate job and basically the
11:51
company I was working for restructured.
11:53
They moved me into a different role in the company.
11:56
And before even starting that role, I just went, this is not
11:59
for me. There was just a few things
12:00
where I just thought this is not comfortable and I was.
12:04
You were Hawking cigarettes. Not quite.
12:07
I'm kidding. But no, it was something it just
12:08
didn't, you know, it just wasn't me and it wasn't where I saw my
12:10
career going. And I was in a point in my life
12:13
I was unmarried. I had a boyfriend at the time.
12:15
But like, you know, we were living in an apartment in kids,
12:17
super cheap rent. I'd have a lot to lose at that
12:20
time. I was definitely not a mom.
12:21
And and so I decided just to quit my job and just sort of
12:25
see, you know, I was gonna like take a month or two and really
12:28
find something I was passionate about because I work best when
12:30
I'm like fired up and passionate.
12:32
I'm not great at, you know, anyway wrong.
12:36
Yeah. So we like went on a holiday,
12:38
which was great. And, and then I came back and I
12:41
was like started the the job search looking on, you know,
12:44
seek and all these platforms and whatever.
12:47
And, and, and while that was happening, I got contacted by
12:51
people I've worked with in the past saying like, oh, hey, I've
12:53
got this campaign. I'd love some support with it.
12:55
Or what do you think about this? Can you give me some advice on
12:58
my website? So I started and I had always
12:59
been a lifestyle writer. That's another thing.
13:01
So I had a little bit of income coming in through through the
13:04
writing that I would do, which I had done when I was in
13:07
corporate. And then I just found myself, I
13:10
was like, OK, I got to make a certain amount of time each week
13:12
to look for my real job. And then I just found I was
13:14
getting so busy doing contracts and and I also realized I was
13:18
making more money than I had in my corporate salary.
13:22
And then I just sort of thought, well, I'll just lean in and see
13:25
how long this lasts. And here we are.
13:28
Unreal. Yeah.
13:29
That was that was 10 years ago, 13 years ago.
13:32
And when we were talking beforehand about this episode
13:35
and what we wanted to explore, I thought how awesome it is to
13:39
have somebody on which there's not been very many people who
13:43
like you have started their entrepreneurial journey before
13:46
having kids. Because a lot of the stories
13:48
that come across in my story as well is corporate, have kids.
13:53
This ain't for me. This doesn't work for anybody.
13:56
Like, you know, big feelings around corporate working
13:59
parents, etcetera. And then let's get create more
14:02
flexibility in that story. You're like, no, no.
14:04
I'm like, oh, Gee, entrepreneur. You told me you're like 13 years
14:07
working from home before it was cool.
14:09
Yeah, I had as an extrovert. So how did that go for you?
14:12
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been some highs and lows, like,
14:15
and also when you don't have kids, your work from home is
14:18
like very unstructured, right? Like you can work through three
14:21
PM, 4:00 PM, five PM, 6:00 PM till 9:00 at night.
14:23
And, and I used to like be very strict with myself about sitting
14:27
at my desk from 9:00 to 5:00 at least.
14:30
And some days I'll be there at 3:00 going like, Oh my God, I
14:32
got two more hours to sit here. And it's taken years and kids
14:36
have helped with that to be able to go.
14:38
I'm not that busy right now. I'm gonna go for a walk because
14:40
I know next week I'm going to be super busy.
14:42
Yeah. And just like the extroversion
14:45
thing, because I'm definitely an extrovert, is, is a challenge as
14:48
well. Like, I would have to, I would,
14:50
you know, get on a bus from Kits and go meet my friends downtown
14:52
for lunch because I needed people.
14:55
And that's how I stay inspired. And I've worked in a ton of
14:57
cowork spaces as well. I've always had, you know, as
15:00
much as home has been my base, like I've always gone out to
15:03
work. Yes, yes.
15:05
How has the community just shifted over the years?
15:08
Like I'm a, I would say I'm a baby entrepreneur.
15:10
I've only really been doing this full time for say 3 or 4 years.
15:12
I don't even know. Before that I was corporate and
15:15
was side hustling. But I'm part of my, I'm going to
15:19
go to quick tangent here. Part of my inspiration for
15:21
hosting events and bringing working mothers together from
15:25
across entrepreneurship and corporate is that I'm like, why
15:27
doesn't the corporate mom get access to like really fun,
15:31
vibrant communities like this entrepreneurial community that
15:34
we have and we're a part of building here in Vancouver.
15:37
I know Toronto is the same big cities, etcetera, and that's
15:41
part of like The Breakfast Club is like, let's give them these
15:44
fun opportunities to connect with one another because I found
15:47
it so beautiful. But has it always been that way
15:49
for you? Like, I know there's a huge rise
15:51
in events right now, but have you noticed a big shift in, say,
15:54
this entrepreneurial community? I have, yeah, for sure.
15:57
Like I, I don't even know what I described myself as when I first
16:01
started. Like I was like, I'm a
16:02
contractor or like my, I overheard my mom once telling
16:05
someone I was unemployed and you know, and something so beautiful
16:10
came from that because my mom said if you're not working full
16:13
time, you have to volunteer. And so I've been volunteering
16:15
with Dress for Success since like the moment I left my
16:17
corporate job. Yeah, it's definitely changed.
16:21
And there's so much community around it and there's so much
16:24
support around it that I think wasn't always there.
16:27
You know, you go to some Co workspaces, I would go sit down,
16:29
I would work. And you know, it was great to
16:32
like be in the buzz, but I wasn't necessarily meeting
16:34
people that. Kind of thing, No.
16:36
You're going there to work? Yeah.
16:37
Get your stuff. Done.
16:38
Yeah, Yeah. OK.
16:39
Income Children. Income Children.
16:41
How did that go? Yeah, it it's interesting
16:46
because I didn't, I didn't ever get a Matt leave, which I as an
16:50
entrepreneur saw my friends taking Matt leave, getting 12
16:54
months off paid, sitting at coffee shops and breweries with
16:57
their babies and whatever. And I never got that.
16:59
And I didn't get that for a couple of reasons.
17:01
The first one was that I was self-employed and some of the
17:04
beautiful parts were that I could sort of wind down, you
17:07
know, when you're pregnant, you got a few months to plan so you
17:10
could wind down some of your contracts.
17:11
And I also had that incredible mindset of how hard can this be?
17:17
So I actually didn't plan to take a mat leave at all.
17:19
I was like, oh, yeah, I can totally be doing some of this
17:22
stuff. Babies sleep a lot, right?
17:24
And then I found out when I was pregnant that my son had some
17:28
health challenges. So, and I said I might get
17:31
emotional and here I go. So I found out he was going to
17:34
need heart surgery. And so when he, which I found
17:37
out when I was pregnant, so I did have some time to kind of
17:39
prep for that. Um, shout out to BBC Children's
17:42
Hospital. Um, so when he was born, I still
17:47
had a couple of contracts ongoing and he was actually
17:50
early. And when I went into labour, I
17:53
grabbed my laptop and went to the hospital and I, he wasn't
17:57
due for another two weeks. And so he was born.
17:59
I ended up having, I was in labour for a while.
18:01
That's not a very interesting story.
18:03
I had the most non-emergency emergency C-section and he was
18:06
born early in the morning. And then because he wasn't well,
18:09
he was taken straight to the PICU.
18:11
And so I, because I had a C-section, went up into
18:14
recovery. So I'm sitting in recovery with
18:16
my laptop alone because my husband is with our son.
18:19
And my phone told me that I had a meeting with a client that I
18:23
knew really well and I'd worked with for a while, coming up in
18:26
10 minutes. So I thought, well, may as well
18:29
log on. So I logged on to this meeting
18:32
and I think I had my camera off. I'm fairly sure I did.
18:35
And we were saying, hey, how's it going?
18:37
Yeah, good thing it was a Wednesday, so it was like a
18:40
super normal time for a meeting. And then one of them said,
18:43
what's all that beeping? And I said, well, I had my baby
18:47
this morning and they were. Like what?
18:49
Oh my. God, get off this call.
18:51
What are you doing? And for me in that moment, it
18:53
was like, it's a moment I think about because my baby wasn't
18:56
with me. So I said, you know what?
18:58
I've worked really hard on the stuff that I'm going to share
18:59
with you today and I would love to share it with you because
19:03
here we go. Because I'm not I'm not being a
19:07
mom right now. So anyway, so I had that
19:12
meeting. Pretty sure I aced it.
19:15
And she did. Of course you did.
19:17
Yeah. And like, you know, without
19:20
getting into the nitty gritty, like we spent a lot of time in
19:22
the hospital in the first six months of his life, and the
19:24
hospital has great Wi-Fi. I spent a lot of time away from
19:27
him because he was in procedures and things that I wasn't able to
19:31
be beside him for. And I think genuinely that
19:35
having work to do saved me because it made me feel, it made
19:42
me feel useful. I got assignments from clients
19:46
or I got, you know, campaigns or whatever.
19:48
And I wasn't working a lot. I wasn't working full time.
19:50
I was probably working realistically like 10 to 15
19:53
hours a week. But I would get a job or a, you
19:56
know, a campaign or whatever and I would execute it because I
19:59
know that I'm good at that. And I felt really confident.
20:02
And everything that was going on with my son's health, I did not
20:06
feel good at. I did not feel confident.
20:08
I was not in control. It was not the motherhood
20:12
experience that I had imagined for myself.
20:14
So I think keeping my, my business going really gave me a
20:20
sense of purpose and it made me feel good about like it made me
20:24
feel like I was good at something because I was not good
20:26
at being a mom in, in those months, Like I didn't know what
20:29
I was doing. And yes, I'll, I'll wrap it
20:32
there. But yes, so it was it was good
20:34
and. Doesn't have to be good.
20:36
It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to be good,
20:39
Yeah, but you know what it. Worked hard.
20:41
It was hard. It was hard and I spent a lot of
20:44
time at that. I think it's a second cup in, in
20:47
Children's Hospital just working away, you know, with my laptop
20:50
and the good strong Wi-Fi that they offer parents there.
20:53
And when my son was better, I wasn't on any daycare lists.
20:57
I had no childcare plan, nothing because we didn't know how
21:00
everything was going to go with him.
21:02
So I dove straight into a nanny share and I, I got the nanny
21:07
four days a week. And so I would do one day a
21:10
week. Matt leave was kind of how I
21:11
looked at it and I thought over the five, four years, five years
21:15
before he starts kindergarten, I will take my mat leave every
21:18
Friday. And that was, you know, our
21:21
Fridays became, yeah, really fun.
21:24
So I kind of feel like I got it in that way.
21:27
So from that perspective, being self-employed was great because
21:30
I was able to really manage my schedule around my nanny, around
21:33
my son. And one thing that I really
21:36
think has changed since those days is with a lot of clients,
21:39
because I had a lot more kind of corporate clients, a lot in
21:42
like, real estate development, architecture.
21:44
I never really talked about my child.
21:46
If someone said, oh, could you meet at 4:30, but I needed to
21:50
pick him up at 5, I'd be like, oh, I have another meeting.
21:52
I'm unable to meet at that time, whereas now I feel like there's
21:56
like COVID, many bad things, but one good thing that came from
21:59
it. I think we all are a little bit
22:00
more humanized in our corporate roles and, and I remember like I
22:05
would keep my kid a secret for a long time and I kept my
22:08
pregnancy a secret just because I didn't know how I was going to
22:11
do it. So.
22:12
Oh my gosh, what a. Strong ramble.
22:15
No, it was. Not a long ramble.
22:16
It's not a long ramble. It's your story.
22:18
It's the details of your story. Like you weren't like telling me
22:21
what underwear you were wearing or anything.
22:22
Like that, I mean, we can get into that.
22:25
That's just, I think, I think it's just so real for you to put
22:29
it that way, because for you to say like it was OK to have a
22:34
distraction. Like you speak with such
22:37
clarity. I know hindsight.
22:38
I know where many years later and like hindsight is
22:41
everything. And I'm sure you've done a lot
22:43
of work on this and like you seem so grounded in this story
22:46
and like how you share it now. But like, it's, I remember with
22:49
my husband's health, heart journey, congenital heart
22:52
journey was your son's congenital?
22:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In his like, most recent
22:56
surgeries and everything. I had a a counselor be like, I'm
23:00
like, I know I'm like, I know I'm numbing.
23:01
I know I'm described. I'm so, um, logical and I'm
23:06
like, I know what I'm doing, I'm smart, I know what I'm doing.
23:09
I know I'm numbing. I know I'm avoiding bubble.
23:11
What she's like, hey, guess what?
23:13
You're in it right now. You're allowed to.
23:14
Yeah. You're allowed to watch friends.
23:16
You're allowed to fall asleep to the TV even though sleep science
23:19
says you shouldn't have TV on, you shouldn't have blue light.
23:22
She's like, your husband's in the hospital.
23:23
You're home alone. Like you're allowed to fall
23:25
asleep to Gilmore Girls. Yeah, that's OK.
23:27
And so when you share that, I'm like, God, why don't people talk
23:30
about that, you know, and just normalize that sometimes you,
23:35
they're like, you gotta have something else going on.
23:37
Yeah, because you had to literally give up your baby to
23:39
these people and to whatever higher power and be like, I have
23:43
to have trust in all of you and all of this.
23:46
And I can't be in the procedure room, even though you, God, I'm
23:49
sure you'd be good. Call the shots.
23:53
And the other thing, you know, the really scary part of all of
23:55
that is I didn't know that he would be OK.
23:58
And so imagine he wasn't. And now I've got no job, no
24:01
business and no baby. So and like, he's fine now.
24:04
He's thriving. He's 9 and he's thriving.
24:06
And you know, luckily my story has a really happy ending, but
24:10
at the time I didn't know that. And so I had to hold on to
24:13
something that made me feel like myself.
24:15
Well, and what you've shared with me about your business and
24:17
the work they do is you freaking love it.
24:19
I love it. You weren't dragging yourself to
24:22
that job that you might have taken that you really weren't
24:24
that into. You had made the decision to go
24:27
and do work that you actually really enjoy.
24:28
And I imagine like to your point, like when you go through
24:31
these human experiences and you share them with other human
24:33
beings, it sounds like you make sure you maybe you kept a bit of
24:36
it a secret, but I'm sure some people knew.
24:37
It's so cool, like the grace people will give you when you're
24:41
just like, I got some shit going on.
24:42
Yeah. Did you tell people did?
24:45
Were people aware? Some people were, I think I
24:49
mostly just with like my more corporate clients and to be
24:52
honest, like with when I was working with men, I just didn't
24:55
mention that I had a kid, you know, or that it was a baby or
24:57
that he was six months and I could hear him crying.
24:59
Well, we're talking on Zoom. Yeah.
25:03
How did this go in your relationship, like in a
25:05
partnership going through an experience like that and both, I
25:09
assume he was working at the same like how did you, how did
25:11
you guys navigate those early days together?
25:13
He was lucky, we were lucky that he had a a very supportive
25:17
employer so he was able to work remotely a little bit before
25:20
that was a thing. Yeah, yeah, He and I were a
25:24
funny match during that time because we're both, so we're,
25:28
we're both quite positive, but you know when 1 is positive, the
25:31
other one. So we sort of flip-flopped, but
25:34
I don't know, I don't know how we did it, but we both just kind
25:38
of thought, well, we've got each other and we'll just figure this
25:42
out one day at a time. And yeah, I think we both were
25:46
the supportive one when the other one needed.
25:47
It yeah, yeah. Take us to when you had a second
25:51
child. I can only imagine.
25:53
I don't want to like put this on you, but but was there like fear
25:57
going into that pregnancy in the middle of that pregnant, you
26:00
know, was there like this like this relived trauma that you
26:02
were experiencing of like woo first time and go quite exactly
26:05
how I thought it would. Yeah, um, I had always thought
26:08
I'd have two kids. So once I had one and after, you
26:11
know, when he was nine months old, he was doing really well.
26:13
We were kind of life began to look a lot more normal.
26:15
Um, you know, we got that nanny, I was back to work, that kind of
26:17
thing. So I thought, OK, let's get this
26:19
second kid over with because I'm not excited about this.
26:22
So then began that sort of journey and, and it didn't
26:25
happen quite as quickly as I had hoped.
26:27
And I, I feel for people who struggle with infertility so
26:30
much because I got like the teeny tiniest dose of it and it
26:34
was so challenging, but eventually we were, we were able
26:37
to get pregnant and um, went for that, you know, that same scan
26:42
and they said, oh, there we see some stuff with this baby too.
26:45
And I'm. Like get out.
26:46
Because both my husband and I kept thinking, well, you know,
26:49
it's not going to happen again. No.
26:52
So I had to go through all the same testing.
26:54
I was watched really closely, it turns out.
26:56
I mean, she's fine. But there was, you know, there
26:59
were some scary moments in there and a lot of extra testing and
27:02
being watched and things like that.
27:03
And, and, and so with my first son, I felt like I held it
27:07
together pretty well in terms of like postpartum and with my
27:12
daughter, so she was born and I had another cesarean.
27:15
So I was in hospital for a couple days.
27:16
And then they say the head home with your beautiful baby and
27:20
here's your toddler as well. You get him back.
27:23
And I didn't cope very well because with my son, I had had a
27:28
team. We had a dietitian, we had a
27:30
nurse, we had a cardiologist, we had a surgeon.
27:32
We had somebody who checked in on me to make sure I was feeling
27:35
OK. You know, we had literally a
27:37
team helping us parent. And then with this next baby, it
27:41
was like, OK, see you in six weeks.
27:43
And I did. I did not do well with that.
27:46
I ended up, I didn't know it at the time, but I had such bad
27:50
postpartum anxiety, which I actually wrote about in a recent
27:55
anthology called Beyond Blue. And it was that I wrote that
27:58
maybe two years ago. It just came out in last fall.
28:01
But that was very cathartic to, to work through that experience
28:06
because everyone kept saying to me, Oh my God, your baby's
28:09
healthy. Like you must be so relieved.
28:10
You must be loving this. And, and again, I didn't get
28:13
that Matt leave experience because I'm still self-employed.
28:16
I did scale back quite a bit when I had two kids, but at the
28:20
same time, I'm still trying to keep my business alive and I've
28:22
got a toddler. It was, it was total chaos and
28:26
my anxiety of like looking at my, I kind of tell this story
28:30
and beyond blue. But I had said to to my husband,
28:33
I need some time to myself. He's like, OK, Sunday morning,
28:35
I'm taking the kids to the park, you know, and we lived in an
28:38
apartment at the time. And I saw them walking down the
28:40
hallway and like, you know, my husband's pushing the stroller.
28:42
He's holding my son's hand. And I just burst into tears.
28:46
I was like, I've got this perfect family that I've always
28:49
wanted. And then I went inside and just
28:51
cold sweats. This can't last.
28:53
I don't deserve this. Like, you know, it was really,
28:56
really hard. And because I had this perfect
28:59
family and, you know, this business that was going well and
29:03
all that kind of stuff, I didn't really even feel like I could
29:06
talk about it. And I did some online quizzes
29:08
and my daughter's 6 1/2 now. So this was six years ago.
29:11
I just feel like there was a lot less conversation about
29:14
postpartum. I didn't know postpartum rage
29:16
was a thing. I definitely had a little bit of
29:17
that. I didn't know postpartum anxiety
29:19
was a thing. I Googled postpartum depression,
29:22
took a couple online quizzes and was like, I don't have that.
29:25
Like I'm showering. I'm like feeling pretty positive
29:27
when my friends come over. I like it.
29:29
It's not, I don't have that. So I was like, well, it's just
29:32
me, there's something wrong with me.
29:33
So I actually suffered more personally with my second baby
29:39
even though she was healthy then I did with my first.
29:42
And I can only imagine the layers of it of like, well, what
29:45
do you even have to be anxious about?
29:46
Even if that word anxiety was a thing, which is like, yeah, six
29:49
years ago, like we were starting to talk about anxiety, but not
29:52
to the level we are now anxious generation.
29:55
These books haven't gotten come out or whatever.
29:57
And, and, and then there's that firing my counselor, an old
30:01
counselor used to work with, call it firing the second arrow.
30:04
Have you ever heard that where it's like you feel the feeling
30:06
and in addition to feeling the feeling, you're you're shitting
30:09
on yourself for feeling that feeling.
30:12
Like not only do you feel hurt because of the anxiety, then
30:15
you're like, well, who am I, like you said, to feel anxious.
30:17
Yeah. It's like, good God.
30:20
Like you can't. Win.
30:21
No, no, it's it's hard. And then add the the the worlds
30:27
and the dumpster fire that's happening around us and I think
30:29
I am in no position to complain about anything so.
30:33
Yeah, it's it's tough. How did you get through it?
30:35
I think I just got through it by getting through it, Yeah, you
30:38
know, And I looked back and I'm like, wow, I could have made
30:40
that a lot easier on myself by talking about it.
30:43
By talking about. It yeah, but ah, I think with
30:48
friends it would have been and not that they didn't ask because
30:51
they did, but I just thought, oh, you know, and people don't
30:53
ask so much about the mom, they ask about the baby.
30:56
Um yeah. And even just seeking out like
30:59
some support. I was just about nine months old
31:03
when I finally joined a like some sort of a support group and
31:06
actually joined this support group thinking it was a, a
31:09
business support group for entrepreneurs.
31:11
And I came to learn in the first hour that this was about
31:14
motherhood and, and it was for entrepreneurs and it was, it was
31:17
a really like evolutionary program at the time, um, that,
31:20
that really shifted my perspective and made me think
31:23
like, I deserve to care for myself because there's this
31:26
murder, you know, complex as well where you know, you think I
31:31
don't, I don't deserve like self.
31:32
This is when self-care was a bubble bath.
31:33
And I'm like, I don't have time for a bubble bath.
31:36
No. Or like I don't really feel like
31:38
getting hot. Yeah, I'm postpartum.
31:39
I'm a bit sweaty. Like I don't really want to get
31:43
more sweaty. I get it.
31:45
Or like the walk and you're like, but what if I don't want
31:47
to walk? What if I want to watch TV?
31:49
You know, it's, I know it's God. It's a trip.
31:52
Yeah, it's. True.
31:53
What would you tell six years ago, Jen?
31:58
Just like your like you're worth putting in the time to figure
32:02
out what's going to make you feel better.
32:03
I don't think I sat in silence for a year.
32:06
And I think that if I had and been like, what do I need?
32:10
What's going to make me hay? And like I had a supportive
32:14
partner. It wasn't, you know, if I had
32:16
said to him, I need this. And you know, my, my mother's
32:19
around and I've got friends that and at that time a lot of my
32:22
friends didn't have kids. So people were always offering
32:24
me help, but I never took it and I never, I never knew what to
32:27
ask for. So I think like maybe a bit of
32:29
silence. It's such a good point.
32:32
That's a great good one. Like not knowing what to ask
32:34
for. It's all well and good.
32:36
And if you don't have friends who can be like, hey, can I do
32:40
this for you? Talk about that a lot on this
32:42
show because that's like as you become a mother, like, oh, I'm
32:46
gonna bring you grilled cheese and tomato soup and I'm gonna be
32:48
like, let me walk the stroller around for 30 minutes and you're
32:51
like, Oh my gosh, how did you know?
32:52
Because I'm a mother, but you know, and then you become the
32:55
mother. I'm like apologizing to my older
32:57
sister being like, God, I was a Dick.
32:58
Like I didn't like offer you anything of.
33:01
Use or like came over and was like, where are the snacks?
33:04
Yeah. Like sitting on the couch and
33:05
like being wait, yeah, oh God. But but yeah, that's a good
33:10
point. It's like just like get a little
33:11
bit quiet for a minute and be like, what would feel good right
33:14
now? Yeah.
33:16
It's hard, it's hard. So today, how has the motherhood
33:20
journey, the entrepreneurial journey, the PR, how is it all
33:23
shaped who you are, what you do now, If anything, if it's
33:27
changed you? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely
33:29
changed me. And it's so funny.
33:30
We were talking before we started recording about like the
33:33
universe giving you things. And it was like, as soon as I
33:35
had kids and sort of embrace that identity as a mom, because
33:38
I was definitely one of those people that was like, this isn't
33:40
going to change me. And it did.
33:41
It changed me so much. It ripped me open.
33:44
I began attracting clients that were moms.
33:46
I began attracting, um, you know, like parenting brands and,
33:51
and brands that really felt aligned for me.
33:53
And I think that is when it, when it shifted for me.
33:56
And I thought, I really want to be telling stories because
33:59
effectively PR's storytelling and I want to be telling stories
34:03
that resonate for me like I am often I'm doing an intake with a
34:06
new client and we're talking about your target audience.
34:09
And I'm like, I'm the target audience.
34:12
And now even in the next kind of phase of life, like my kids are
34:15
6 and 9. They're both in school.
34:16
Obviously, I they're still very much needy, needing me, but I
34:21
feel like I'm in a point of my life now where I do have a
34:24
little bit more time to myself. My kids are a little bit more
34:26
independent. There's so much more fun.
34:28
I'm loving my kids right now, which I haven't truly been able
34:32
to say before I was not. I mean, the baby part for me was
34:36
really challenging. And right now I feel like we're
34:37
in such a sweet spot. I love them.
34:40
I'm obsessed with them. It's so fun to say.
34:43
It's like. You know, I hear it's so weird,
34:46
Jen, that you said that because I was like, hey, I wanna make a
34:49
note in my brain, my very full brain, to ask you how you're
34:54
enjoying. What is the most fun part about
34:56
this six, The 6:00 and 9:00. There's a podcast I listen to
34:58
that's Australian. Actually all my favorite
35:00
podcasts are Australian called Beyond the Bump, and they've
35:02
started asking that to guests. What's your favorite part about
35:05
this age? Because they're like, we keep
35:07
just hearing this shit that goes along with Oh yeah, 5 year olds.
35:10
Oh, just you wait till they're 70.
35:12
Just wait or not. And it's like, God, can we just
35:14
stop with that and like celebrate the fun.
35:16
OK, what is it that's so fun? 6:00 and 9:00.
35:19
I mean, there are some super practical stuff.
35:21
We went on a big holiday over Christmas.
35:22
No car seats, no cribs, no pack and plays, no naps.
35:26
No, like I mean, I carried their water bottles around a little
35:29
bit, but realistically, I just carried one and we all just like
35:31
drank out of it. And then because they're not as
35:33
gross as they used to be. And it was just like, it was the
35:36
first holiday that we've been on as a family that felt easy and
35:38
relaxing because they were hungry and they would like grab
35:42
a snack or they'd say like, hey, I'm feeling hungry.
35:44
They weren't just like melting down.
35:45
It's like, OK, well let's like grab you a muffin or something.
35:48
It felt like 4 people on a holiday instead of like me
35:52
parenting on location, which I've often felt with holidays.
35:56
Yeah, like you can keep him up late and then they they'll sleep
35:59
in in the morning now, which is just so fun.
36:01
I mean, we were away over spring break and it just, you know, you
36:04
don't have to have eyes on them all the time.
36:05
You know, that they're that they're making hopefully
36:08
somewhat sensible decisions and whatever they're doing.
36:10
And if they need something, they will come and tell you.
36:12
If they're hungry, they'll come and tell you.
36:14
And you don't have to stick to this, like schedule.
36:17
And they're funny and they have opinions on things and they ask
36:20
like the weirdest questions. And you know, like, I mean, I
36:24
could go on about some of the conversations that we've had.
36:27
Like, I love it. I love chatting with them.
36:29
And you know, it's just, it's, it's a really fun age.
36:33
And especially for me, who I have really struggled to find my
36:35
feet in motherhood because I think of the way that I started,
36:39
I've always kind of thought like, I'm not great at this.
36:41
And I've always comforted myself and like I'm good at business,
36:43
I'm good at PR, but motherhood, you know, like I'm ticking the
36:46
boxes. Everyone's fed and like has
36:47
shirts on and stuff. And now I'm getting to a point
36:50
where I'm like, oh, I'm good at this.
36:52
Like it's starting to feel natural.
36:54
Isn't that interesting that we started off?
36:56
I can't remember if we were we had hit record yet or not, but
36:58
you had said I never, I was never what I would call
37:01
entrepreneurial. And then now you're very
37:05
confident as an entrepreneur. I am.
37:08
And you started off saying I'm not like it wasn't like motherly
37:12
perhaps whatever. And now you're like, I'm damn
37:13
good, mom. Yeah, there you go.
37:15
Seasons of life, I guess. Who?
37:17
Really. Yeah.
37:17
What is that time? Time.
37:19
Experience, proof, age, wisdom, wisdom, wisdom.
37:25
Let's talk about PR. Can we talk about PR for a
37:27
second as it pertains to like a personal brand?
37:30
Yes. So I just feel like I'd be
37:32
remiss if I didn't pick your brain for a few minutes.
37:34
For the listener who is a mother now, we used to be 80% women.
37:40
We are now 90, pushing 92%. So we're kicking the dads out a
37:44
little bit here. But hey, if you're a dad, you're
37:45
listening. Hello for the mother who's
37:49
listening, who's like, yeah, I don't necessarily like need or
37:52
want to like shake things up that much.
37:53
I might be in a corporate job loving it, might be an
37:55
entrepreneur, like it's good. However, I feel this pull in
38:00
this this climate to craft or hone my own personal brand or
38:07
like how I relate to the outside world.
38:10
You're seeing everybody create their own brands, etcetera.
38:13
What's the first step someone could take to just evaluate or
38:17
like come up with like what their brand is as a human?
38:20
Yeah, this kind of loops back to what we were talking about
38:23
before, that everyone has a platform, right?
38:26
Anyone. If you see the fire and you
38:28
start filming the fire or whatever, you're the newscaster.
38:31
And I firmly believe that everyone, I'm going to say
38:34
something and then I'm going to contradict myself.
38:36
I firmly believe everyone needs a personal brand and to work on
38:40
their personal brand. Even if you were in a corporate
38:42
job that you love and you're like this is my life, that you
38:46
are probably also a volunteer. You are probably also maybe a
38:49
parent. You are probably on a sports
38:51
team. You are probably a consumer.
38:54
It is of great value to have a personal brand.
38:57
You may want a raise. You may want a different
39:00
position within the corporation that you that you love.
39:02
And a personal brand doesn't mean like, OK, you need a photo
39:05
shoot, you need it. It doesn't mean that at all.
39:07
It means that you have to own your digital footprint.
39:10
You have to own your reputation. So the first thing to do, if
39:13
someone's like, oh, I don't have a personal brand or I don't need
39:15
a personal brand, put your name into Google.
39:19
It's so simple. That's true, but put your name
39:21
into Google. If you don't have social media
39:24
and you don't want social media, that's fine.
39:26
But make sure that if someone has your same name on social
39:29
media that you know about it. You don't have to own it or do
39:33
anything about it, but you need to be aware of what you look
39:37
like when someone. Looks you.
39:40
Up. Yeah.
39:40
And an example that I kind of hate to use, but I'll use it is
39:44
a woman. And ironically, I can't remember
39:46
what company she worked for, but this was during COVID and she,
39:51
um, made a man was in a park and she said he was attacking her.
39:56
He was not attacking her. He filmed her.
39:59
That woman lost her job, right? It was a bad situation early in
40:03
COVID, yeah. This is familiar.
40:04
Yeah, it was. It was, you know, we could get
40:08
into that. But, yeah, but this woman's
40:10
personal brand was completely in the toilet in moments.
40:15
And another great example is the the woman, I believe her name is
40:20
Kristen, Kirsten from the Coldplay concert, the HR exec,
40:24
right? So she was probably pretty happy
40:27
in her job, doing pretty well. And now, and I'm not saying
40:31
like, oh, my goodness, you might your name might be like on every
40:33
news, whatever. We don't need to like, prepare
40:35
for that. But understanding what your
40:38
personal brand looks like, even just something like sometimes I
40:42
go to look at someone and they don't have a LinkedIn profile
40:44
picture. And immediately I feel a
40:46
disconnect, you know, and that's it doesn't have to be a
40:50
professional photo. You can like when you're going
40:52
to a wedding or something and you're looking nice, get someone
40:55
to just take a picture and make that your LinkedIn profile
40:58
photo. And if you want to, you know,
41:00
create some kind of a personal brand, maybe use that photo
41:02
across a couple of your platforms.
41:04
Make sure that your photos from 2012 when you're dancing on the
41:09
table or whatever, maybe their private photos are, you know
41:13
what I mean? It's good to be aware of it.
41:14
How much do you think people need to have everybody?
41:18
Like how much do you think people need to have a position
41:21
or an opinion or a stance in their personal brand?
41:27
Great question. Um, I don't think you need one
41:30
necessarily. I think some people really feel
41:33
like they have to offer one when something comes up in the world
41:37
and they're like, this is my stance on this, you know, and
41:41
it's a hard thing because I have a lot of feelings about a lot of
41:44
things happening in the world right now.
41:46
I also recognize that I'm in a position of privilege.
41:50
I'm, you know, I'm a white woman in a, in a first world city.
41:54
I have, you know, not a huge platform, but I have somewhat of
41:57
a platform. Um, and a lot of people feel
42:00
like they have to make a lot of statements publicly for them.
42:04
I do a lot of volunteer work. I do a lot of reading, I do a
42:07
lot of work behind the scenes. And sometimes it's like, do I
42:11
have to post about this to make it real?
42:12
You know what I mean? Like, I'm reading a book, I'm
42:14
reading an article, I'm donating money somewhere or something
42:16
like that. But if I don't like a screenshot
42:18
and share, did it happen? And I think that that sort of
42:21
sits in a personal place. Um, and no, I don't think people
42:27
necessarily need to be. It's a hard one because when you
42:31
look at celebrities, I think some of them could use their
42:33
platforms. Yes.
42:34
Taylor Swift has been disappointing me a little bit
42:36
lately and I never thought I would say that.
42:38
There you go. Isn't that interesting?
42:41
But no, I think, I think I asked that question because it's like
42:44
we, I sometimes feel like it's, it's someone who has influence
42:49
is synonymous with someone who has to have a niche or a stance
42:54
on something. It's like that person you follow
42:56
who's known for skin care. I don't know, that's now kind of
42:59
getting into like the entrepreneurial, but I kind of
43:01
do think about it as it pertains to the person who's just, you
43:05
know, not just is a corporate professional and a mother and
43:10
they're like, OK, if I want to hold my personal brand, like
43:13
what do I stand for? I'm like it.
43:16
It's good to know that. And does that all?
43:20
Does everything have to be on the table?
43:22
No, Think so. And it also is like what you
43:24
engage with, right? Like I do a ton of engagement
43:28
and supporting because I'm not an expert on, I think it was
43:31
trans visibility day recently. I am not an expert on trans
43:34
visibility. I support the trans community,
43:38
you know, in a couple of different ways.
43:40
So what I did on that day was like share support.
43:44
Like, you know, I mean, I'm not going to create a new post.
43:47
I'm Jen and I support trans rights because I think if you
43:50
know me, you know that I do. But I guess so.
43:53
There's no point. You don't.
43:54
You don't be the expert on everything.
43:56
That's interesting because I also think we're all very scared
44:00
to say the wrong thing. Yeah.
44:01
And so that's a really nice way of giving permission back to
44:05
people to be like, you don't have to be fearful of liking it
44:09
or commenting and saying this is great work.
44:10
Congrats. Stand by your likes because if
44:13
you like something, if you're going to like in a mega post and
44:16
then you want a promotion at work and someone's looking and
44:19
they're like. Well.
44:20
She liked this post last week and that doesn't align with our
44:23
corporate. Yes, like stand by it.
44:25
There's a company in Vancouver making some questionable choices
44:27
right now. And, you know, I feel for the
44:30
employees that work for that company because not all of them
44:33
can just up and quit their job because they don't agree with
44:36
some of the some of the brands that this this social media
44:40
company is taking on, right? But like, I get that they've got
44:44
mortgages to pay. They can't just quit even if
44:46
they don't agree with it. But, you know, and and do they
44:48
want to compromise their job? Like, I feel for them.
44:52
I feel for them. Yeah, they're in a hard spot.
44:54
It's you. You bring up a great point, Jen.
44:57
If you were to be the PR person for motherhood and you were to
45:02
give it a judge, what would you do?
45:06
Oh, I would call it mattress since I would change because
45:11
motherhood. Yeah, yeah, motherhood.
45:17
I don't know how I would tackle that one.
45:19
The fee would be high. But it would be charged not to
45:25
the women. Not to the women, no, a man
45:27
would pay for it for sure, For sure.
45:30
It's a tough one because motherhood is and it's evolving.
45:33
This is The thing is like, I wouldn't like spend a whole lot
45:36
of money on a rebrand because it's going to change again.
45:39
So it's something that we're we're flowing with.
45:41
I mean, it's changing for me. I feel like I'm in a way
45:43
different season than I was even two years ago, you know, and I
45:47
look forward to the, I love the season, but I look forward to
45:50
the next season. I'm.
45:52
Excited I would decline the opportunity to rebrand
45:54
Motherhood. Love that.
45:57
God I love interviewing someone who is so media trained too.
46:01
You're like, answers are so perfect, Jen, what would you say
46:06
you're still trying to figure out?
46:09
I know you're going to ask me this and I still have not a
46:12
great answer. I'm still, you know what
46:14
actually I'm trying to figure out right now.
46:16
Yeah. Is my myself.
46:19
I feel like I'm in a great place in business.
46:21
I'm in a great place in motherhood.
46:23
And now I'm getting to this point where, like I was saying,
46:26
my kids are a little bit more independent.
46:28
And someone asked me the other day, I think was the eye doctor,
46:30
what are your hobbies? And I went.
46:32
Well, that's a very confronting question.
46:35
They're looking for the gamers. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
46:39
But yeah, I think I'm just trying to figure out like, like,
46:42
what do I love, what lights me up, what is within my realm
46:46
right now? Like sometimes we know when you
46:48
get an hour or an hour and a half at home on your own, I'm
46:51
like, oh, OK, laundry or emails or and or reality TV.
46:56
But like what what's happening for me right now?
46:59
Like what do I want? The five year, 10 year?
47:01
Because that is the thing when you're entrepreneur, right?
47:02
You're not doing these five year, 10 year corporate
47:05
projecting. You're not doing the
47:08
development. Plans.
47:08
Yeah, your manager. So yeah, I think I'm just trying
47:12
to figure out like what feels really good in this in this
47:15
season. And also, we were talking about
47:17
this before, my hormones are all over the place.
47:19
So I'm trying to figure those out.
47:20
How do those play into what, you know, what everything else
47:23
that's happening And yes. Yeah, maybe Women's Health could
47:26
use the rebrand. Yeah, I mean, Women's Health
47:29
could just use the funding. The funding, yeah, not really
47:31
the rebrand have a. Good moment.
47:34
Yeah, they've got all the experts and all the information.
47:37
They just need the funding to make or they don't.
47:40
The information, the funding to get the information.
47:41
Women's Health is something I'm very passionate about.
47:45
Oh, I gotta ask you 5000 more questions.
47:47
I'm going to cut myself off. This feels perfect.
47:49
But man you are incredible. Thank you so much for coming on.
47:52
Thank you for having me, I wanted to ask you questions and
47:55
we didn't even get to you. Part 2 Part 2 Part 2 we had too
47:59
much to cover Thank you Jen you're amazing If people want to
48:02
book a PR power hour with you if they want to join your PR
48:05
accountability club that I I have been a client of both of
48:09
these things. I am in the PR accountability
48:11
club. I have had a power hour of Jen
48:13
do follow up. She sends is actually
48:15
unbelievable. I was like, I think you need to
48:17
charge more. Um, tell us, how can everybody
48:20
get in touch with? You yeah, I hang out on
48:22
Instagram a lot, Jen with two ends under score went or you can
48:26
just visit my visit my website, which I'm sure you'll put in the
48:29
notes. And I have a little option for
48:32
like a free call on my website. And often people will they're
48:36
like, I don't know if I need PR, what is PR?
48:38
And I'm so happy to have those conversations.
48:41
I really am like I my whole goal is to demystify this big scary
48:45
industry for small businesses, solopreneurs, founders, and
48:49
yeah, make it accessible. I love that because I think we
48:52
just all think of the big shops like the big PR shops which.
48:55
Who are amazing you have so many freaks yes big agencies in in
48:59
the city and in Canada and everything but yeah, it's it's
49:02
not the right fit for. Everyone no, no, and like it's
49:05
not yeah they wouldn't have also like the niche expertise of like
49:09
what's like the publication or what's the thing that like the
49:11
small move that you could make that actually would have huge
49:13
ripples for you, which is what you're absolutely incredible at
49:16
so totally thanks for coming on sharing your.
49:18
Story you for having me.