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How to Find Happiness Within Yourself | Robert Mack | Wake Up with Marci · Wake Up with Marci

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I had a kitchen knife, steak knife that
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I lodged into my wrist, the intention of slashing my wrist.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: When that peaceful aliveness that I know is joy or
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: happiness washed over me, I just decided in that moment
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I was going to postpone the suicide for a few minutes.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I set a goal of maybe
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes, you know, and I said, oh, I can
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: always come back to this. suicidal thing if i want
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in the meantime i'll do a different kind of research
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: i'll start looking up what even is happiness what is
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: unhappiness how does it differ from depression what is suicidal
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: ideation it was interesting but it didn't solve or cure
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the unhappiness for me or the deep dark depression for
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: me right away and not by long stretch so it
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: was a profound moment a transformative one, but it wasn't lasting.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I had to really work at it hard and I
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: didn't know where to start. So I just started where
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: This is Wake Up With Marci, a space for honest
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: conversations about healing, recovery, and women's wellness. I'm Marci Hopkins.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Take a breath. You're safe here. Let's begin.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Happiness.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: What is happiness? We're all searching for happiness, but we
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: don't know what it is. Welcome all to Wake Up
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: With Marci, a space for honest conversations about healing, recovery,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: and women's wellness. I'm your host, Marci Hopkins, and I'm
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: so grateful you are here today. I want to ask you,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: have you ever thought, I'll be happy when I get
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the relationship, I make the money, I lose the weight,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: when I finally have my life looking the way I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: think it should? So many of us spend our lives
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: chasing happiness. Believing something outside of us is going to
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: finally make us feel okay inside. But my guest today
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: challenges that idea. Robert Mack. Robert Mack is an Ivy
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: League educated positive psychology expert and celebrity happiness coach. His
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: work has been endorsed by many amazing, amazing women. Oprah,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Vanessa Williams, and Lisa Nichols. He has appeared on Good
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Morning America, The Today Show, Access Hollywood, and served as
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: the celebrity love coach on E! Famously Single. He's also
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: the author of Happiness from the Inside Out and Love
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: from the Inside Out. But what I find most powerful
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: about Robert isn't the resume. It's his own personal journey
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that brought him to his work. Robert has shared that
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a suicidal moment became an unexpected turning point for his life.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: One that showed him happiness could be possible even when
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: his circumstances hadn't changed. And that is where I want
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to begin. Let's welcome Robert to the show. Hello, Robert.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Wake Up with Marci.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to have you. And first and foremost, thank
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: you for being so open and raw with your story
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: so we can help others out there that have experienced
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: dark times to find their own happy.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Such a critical theme.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So you've shared yourself. You went through a really dark
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: time and you had a suicidal moment and That moment
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: actually created a shift for you and showed that happiness
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: was possible, even though nothing changed in that moment. So
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: what was happening in your life and what happened in
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: that moment that changed everything for you?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been thinking about that for 20 plus
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: years and I finally landed on what I feel is
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the deepest truth. Finally, my mind was quiet. It was
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: only a micro moment or two. But in that quiet,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I felt the innate inherent intrinsic happiness or peaceful aliveness
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that we all have inside. So it just bubbled to
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the surface, you know, like a cork that floats. I
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: just stopped holding it down with my own thoughts, with
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: my own obsessive compulsive thinking. And it was miraculous, you know,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that kind of joy and peace and love that you
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: feel at such a deep visceral level. despite nothing changing
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: in my personal circumstances or my life at all.
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  Speaker 3: Profound.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I can relate to that in that I,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: the moment that I really was ready to drop my mask,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I'd gotten a DUI and I went to bed and
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: just my life was chaos. And I always felt really
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: sorry for myself. And I, even though it looked good
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: on the outside, but I woke up that next morning
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: and it was just like, there was a complete shift.
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  Speaker 2: And there was just like that moment of feeling like
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: the peace, but the surrender and just ready.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Did that feel like that for you? And like, what, what,
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: after you felt that, what did you do?
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  Speaker 3: You know, mine wasn't lasting. It wasn't lasting at first.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: In that moment, you know, I had a, kitchen.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Knife, steak knife that I had sort of lodged into
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: my wrist with the intention of slashing my wrist. When
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that peaceful aliveness that I know is joy or happiness
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: washed over me, I just decided in that moment I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: was going to postpone the suicide for a few minutes.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I set a goal of maybe
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes, you know, and I said, oh, I can
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: always come back to this suicidal thing if I want.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: In the meantime, I'll do a different kind of research.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I'll start looking up what even is happiness, what is unhappiness,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: how does it differ from depression, what is suicidal ideation.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: All these things.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: It was interesting, but it didn't solve or cure the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: unhappiness for me or the deep, dark depression for me
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: right away, not by a long stretch. So it was
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a profound moment and a transformative one, but it wasn't lasting.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I had to really work at it hard, and I
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: didn't know where to start So I just started where
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I was for anything and anyone that could tell me
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: anything about happiness. So it was like two steps forward,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a thousand steps back. And most days I was convinced
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I would never make any progress towards my goal of happiness,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: let alone actually ever experience true happiness the way I
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: did in that suicidal moment.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I didn't think I'd ever experience it again in a lasting, meaningful,
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  Speaker 3: and abiding way.
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  Speaker 2: What did life look like after that moment?
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  Speaker 1: Well, one thing I was crystal clear about was that
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: everything everybody told me about success and happiness wasn't making
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: me happy and didn't really even truly.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Make me feel successful. Maybe I should just do the opposite.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: It was very much like a Seinfeld episode, dating myself
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: a little bit. But I was like, I'm just going
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: to try to do everything the opposite way. I have
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: a corporate job. I'm not happy.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to see if I can find a way
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  Speaker 1: to not work a corporate job. I'm living in a cold,
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  Speaker 1: dark city. Beautiful city, but cold and dark. I'll see
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: if I can move to a.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Warm, bright city.
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  Speaker 1: I'm in a relationship with a wonderful woman, but we
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: don't get along very much anymore. Maybe it's better if
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: we go our separate ways. I started making these decisions
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: in the name of happiness. And I wasn't sure any
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: of it would really work. But lo and behold, a
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: lot of it did shift things.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: I moved to Miami.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I eventually stopped working that corporate job. I became friends
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: with the woman I was dating and it began to
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: slowly but surely change in a more positive direction. And
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: as it built momentum, there was sort of a compound
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: interest effect. You know, one thing led to the next,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: led to the next. But I remember at the time
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: trying to make these decisions and one thing kept coming
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to my mind over and over again. I kept thinking, well,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I want to sort of see the whole path before
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I take the first step. And kept getting this strange
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: download that was like, if you don't act on the
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: one piece of information you have, why do you think
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  Speaker 1: you should get any more? You know, the one piece
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  Speaker 1: of information I had was I should move somewhere warm
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and sunny.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. So shallow, so superficial.
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  Speaker 1: And any of us who worked in the addiction space
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: at all know that trying to pull a quote unquote geographic,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: meaning trying to change your life by changing your environment
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and circumstances generally doesn't work for very long. But for me,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: it was just enough of a change to move my
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: life in a way that allowed me then to take
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the additional next steps.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that a little bit, about when we
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: are in recovery. Like, I know, like for me, I
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: was always changing people, places, and things, thinking that something
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: would change.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And that I would get happier. But of course, the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: chaos always ensued. Everything was the same. Maybe not in
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: the beginning, but it ultimately turned out the same. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: now I know fully it was because it was me.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: But on the flip side of that, I had someone
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: recently ask me, like, in recovery, we're not supposed to move.
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  Speaker 2: We're not supposed to change things. But I'm really unhappy,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: like living where I am. And I'd really like to
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: move somewhere warmer. And you truly can find, there's places
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  Speaker 2: that are healthy for us to live, right? We thrive
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: in different environments.
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  Speaker 3: No question about it.
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  Speaker 2: And if you are on a healing journey and you're
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: not necessarily trying to change your life, but maybe trying
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  Speaker 2: to introduce yourself something that you think will help make
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: you happier, right? Or more of a connection to your soul, really.
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  Speaker 2: Because me, if I'm by the ocean, I'm connected to myself.
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  Speaker 3: No question about it.
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  Speaker 1: It is so much easier to get a good night
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: of rest if you're not sitting on a bed of nails, right?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with spiritual teacher Osho,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: you know, he transitioned decades ago, but he would say
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it's much easier to meditate in the back of a
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Rolls Royce than is on a bus kind of thing, right?
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And the idea is you don't need to torture yourself
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: on the way to happiness. Anything that you can do
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to improve the circumstances and conditions of your life the
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: social circle in your life, in a way that provides
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you a more solid, stable foundation from which to grow
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: or deepen into the happiness that's always within you is
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: a good thing. It's a great thing. The mistake that
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: people make is they think that that will provide them lasting, meaningful,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and abiding happiness.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: There you go. Provide them.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It allows you to make progress towards the goal, but
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you have to be careful to not mistake the map
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: for the territory, not to mistake the conditions and circumstances,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the more money, the better health, the beautiful man or
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: woman in your life for happiness or health.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of us out there, and it's from
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: our upbringing. We're unhappy. We feel less than. And we
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: maybe have abandonment issues like me, like I had, and
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: trauma and abuse. And so I was always a people pleaser.
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  Speaker 2: And I was always giving, trying to get validation outside
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  Speaker 2: of myself.
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  Speaker 5: Same, same.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. Yes. Such a big thing, trying to
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: always like.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Well, if you, you know, like what I'm doing or
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: always praise me, please, so I can feel happy, feel
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  Speaker 2: good about myself. So how do we move from that
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: and start trying to find that happiness from.
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  Speaker 3: The inside out?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Boy, you gave me shivers as you said that, Marcy.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Conversations with you are so rich, and I want you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to know how much I appreciate you. I was a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: people pleaser, full tilt all the way, you know, full throttle,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: people pleasing person. and I believed in giving, and I
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: still believe in giving, but from a different place. It
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: takes an extraordinarily selfish person to be authentically unselfish. If
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you want to make other people rich, you have to
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: get rich. If you want to make other people happy,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: you have to realize the happiness within yourself in the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: deepest possible way. In the beginning, that looks extraordinarily selfish
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: to everybody else, and it will feel extraordinarily selfish to you,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: but the truth is you know, happiness is health of
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the spirit. And until you're truly healthy, I promise you
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: can't really make anyone or encourage anybody else or facilitate
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: anybody else's health.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Or their happiness, right?
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: So for me, one of the key, probably the key
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: recognition was that when I do a great job of
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: people pleasing, I am actually working.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Counter to my true intention.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: My true intention is for people to be as happy
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: as humanly possible and even if and when I'm not around.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: But when I'm really successful and really good at people pleasing,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: and I was just like you clearly were, I would
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: train people away from the source of unconditional happiness and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: peace and love and self-love within them. And I would
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: convince them and persuade them that the source of happiness
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and peace and love and self-love was within me. And
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: then when I had a bad day or a tough
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: day or God forbid something happened to me and I
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't around or I couldn't be around anymore, I would
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: actually leave them much more destitute and worse off than
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: if they hadn't met me at all in that way.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So I quickly discovered that people-pleasing wasn't just bad for me.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: It was bad for everyone. And it was encouraging in
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: training people in one of the greatest myths and misconceptions
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: about happiness that exists, maybe the only myth and misconception,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: which is that happiness lies outside of you in somebody
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: or something else.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Very, very true. Well, I I've learned that to
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: be true. I didn't know that. But so you've, you've
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: mentioned meditation, but like, how do we start? Like, I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: know what works for me, but like, how are you
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: teaching others to start doing that?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I grew up wonderful, loving family, really self-sacrificing family.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And I also picked up along my physical trail, some
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: teachings on religion that were counterproductive and um most of
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: those um teachings led me to sort of abandon all
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: spirituality and religion for a while and then i began
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to lean into science and science became extraordinarily helpful so
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: there's an entire field as you know of positive psychology
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: it's the science of what makes life worth living it's
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the science of success and happiness and so i increasingly
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: leaned into science and what i discovered confirmed what poets
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and philosophers and gurus have been talking about for thousands
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: of years. And at the end of the day, the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: cheat code was to quiet my mind, but I didn't
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and couldn't get there right away. So I started where
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: it was easy. So I'd say it's a four-step process, really.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: The first step is just clarifying the activities that make
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: you feel alive, inspired, uplifted, Just happy to be alive.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Identifying those, scheduling more of those into your life. I
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: call those happiness islands.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And scheduling out of your life as many happiness deserts
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: or valleys as possible. Things that do not make you
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: feel uplifted. They make you feel demotivated. They make you
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: feel awful, sad, disinterested in life. Just try to get
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: as many of those off your plate as possible. There's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: seven ways to do that. You can reduce or eliminate.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: You can outsource or delegate. automate or regulate or innovate.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: That's just a long way of saying, how can you
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: get out from underneath this thing that you don't like
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: doing for its own sake? That was the first step, right? Now,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the second step was all about people. So the first
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: one was about happy activities or actions. The second is
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: about happy people. You want to do the same thing
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: with people. There are people in your life right now
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that just make you feel so great every time you
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: connect to people like Marcy, hopefully, that every time you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: connect with.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: You just feel wildly alive, happy, supported, loved, They take
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: care of you even by just being quiet, just sitting
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: next to you or even just thinking about.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Them makes you feel better.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Put more time on your calendar for those people and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: try to get out of your life or spend less
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: time with energy vampires. At some point, though, you discover
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: that you can be doing happy activities. You can be
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with people who are very loving or supportive and kind
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and happy, but you still feel unhappy or less than happy.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: And so that leads you to step three. Step three
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: is learning.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: To tell truthful, but better feeling stories to yourself and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: others about everything in your life, including yourself.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: So you can call that positive reframing, but it has
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: to be based in truth.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That's critical. And that's where most people actually stop. They
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: stop with this idea that happiness is a state of mind.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: It's not that that's not true. It's just not the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: deepest truth. The deepest truth is that happiness isn't a
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: state of mind.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: It's not a state of mood. It's not even a
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: state of being. It is being itself.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So at some point in our journey of happiness, we
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: graduate to the fourth and final stage, which is learning
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to not think at all. And lots of people will
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: argue with you and say, I can't stop thinking. And
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I will argue back.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: You do it every night for several hours while you're sleeping.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: You do it when you're in extraordinary pleasure.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You do it without even trying, so much so that
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you might forget what you meant to say and your
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: mind goes blank. So learning to appreciate, enjoy, and even
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: cultivate more of those micro moments where your mind is
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: quiet will help you turn up the dimmer switch on
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: this happiness that always exists within you. You're not really
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: turning the happiness up. You're turning your awareness of that
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: happiness up. So yeah, I'd say that's where I'd start
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and where I'd end. At the end of the day,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: some people might find themselves starting with steps two or three.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Some people can go directly to four. But I'd say
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: most people probably best off starting with step one. Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: So what I really hear you saying is be careful
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: who you surround yourself with, right? It's very important that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: we surround ourselves with positive people, because if you are
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: surrounding yourself with negative people, you just fall victim to that.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And you, even if you're not really that person, it's
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: easy to fall into that, judging people or gossiping or
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: just taking that energy down.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And then also healthy boundaries. Sure. Very important to do
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: healthy boundaries. Now, when you say I can't quiet my
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: mind now, that takes me to meditation. Would you say
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: that that's the act of meditation that you're talking about? Yeah.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Meditation is a great word. I think people.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I don't generally love the word meditation. It feels like
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: one more thing to do on a long list of
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: things to do. I like to talk about micro meditations.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And more than that, I just talk about enjoying each
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: moment as deeply as possible. you can without letting your
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: mind and thoughts get in the way.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: It's so simple that kids can do it. It's so
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: simple that your puppy or your kitten can do it.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: It's so simple that all of nature does it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Because what happens with people that meditate, and meditation is phenomenal,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and the challenge with meditation is that people will sit
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on their cushion or lay on their bed the lowest position,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: and they have all these rules.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: And those rules are fine on.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: One level, but it also just kind of introduces more
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: complexity into an already overwhelmed brain.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Then you wonder if you're doing it right.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And then because you're wondering if you're doing it right,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you're not focused on enjoying it properly. And the truth is,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: if you don't enjoy it, you're not doing it right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And you'll never get good at it if you don't
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's one of those rare things in life. Actually,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: there are many things, but one of those few things
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in life where if you try to get it right,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: you'll always get it wrong.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: You feel like you're.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Failing, right? It's another way of feeling.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: That you're failing.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And that's the problem is that it just becomes another
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: measuring stick for success that we hope and believe will
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: directly correlate to happiness.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: It's not quite to happiness, right?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: So you want to drop all the rules and you
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: want to find a way to just take a vacation
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: from your crazy-making brain, your misery-making brain, as often as
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: you can throughout the day.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so just a couple we could talk about, like
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: just for example to people out there, like when you
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: sit down to have your coffee or tea in the morning,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: one of the things I do that's very helpful, it's
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: not like I'm sitting in a meditative state, but I
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: have a chair and I'm able to look outside. And
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I sit in quiet and I just take in the nature, right?
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I take in the birds flying and sometimes I feel
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: very spiritually connected or sometimes I'm just sitting there in quiet.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And it's just a good way to start the day.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not putting the pressure on myself where, okay, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: got to get downloads and get really quiet. So that's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: one that really, really works for me. And I think
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: another one is even like when you're you can be
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: just simply stretching. It's just those quiet little moments like
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you're talking about.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: You've hit some of the cues here, Marcy, was just
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: that one of the keys to get out.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Of your brain is to be more in your body. Yeah.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: More attention to your five physical senses and have more.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: interest in what you're feeling physically not even emotionally right
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: away i think a lot of people make the mistake
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of paying too much attention to their emotions right away
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and they get lost in that and before long the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: brain loves that it kicks back in and starts creating
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: stories around all of it why am i feeling this
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: way i wish i wasn't feeling this way we want
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to kind of stay out of that just noticing a
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: beautiful sunset the smell of the air the way things look,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the way things feel. When you're walking, can you feel
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the bottom of your feet? When you're taking a shower,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: can you enjoy the water? Can you feel the temperature?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: The whole idea is to what I call just unitasking.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: And remember that thinking counts as one thing.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: So if you're taking a shower, you're just taking a shower.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: You're not also thinking.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And the best way to take a shower is to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: enjoy the physical sensation of the shower.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: So it's, it's, body awareness.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Not being sort of buried and lost in your brain
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: your thinking mind right now.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: There's just so you know your brain can't for everyone
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: listening your brain cannot think of two things at one
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: time so that's when we change when we do these
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: grounding exercises like you're talking about that takes us into
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: what the feeling right the senses and using i love
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: that like i'll I always have a little of these
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: workshops I do. And like I said, grab a crystal
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: or pin or whatever. And you start feeling it. What's
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the temperature? What's the weight? And it brings you into
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the moment.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: So that's what I hear you talking about.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: You know, it also speaks to part of the trends
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: and fads that exist these days. Cold plunging, saunas and,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you know, these kinds of things, extreme sports. It is
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: all a way an excuse to get in your body
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: and out of your brain and out of your mind.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: And life is always so much sweeter. Reality is so
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: much sweeter than even our wildest fantasies about it. So
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to that end, that's right. It's not a question of discipline.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Sometimes people are like, I can't discipline myself. I just
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: call it discipline. Like, how can you enjoy this thing
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that you want to do that you know will be
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: so much more helpful to you than what you're currently doing?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: So instead of doom scrolling, can you enjoy the sunset?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Can you enjoy the shower? Can you, when you're with
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: somebody who's talking a whole lot like me, Someone else.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Can you just enjoy sitting there for its own sake?
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: Right now, it's not always easy, though. I would say
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: that it's just unpracticed. So I think I love what
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: you said that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the mistake that I made, certainly, I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: think a lot of my clients make is that they
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: call something hard.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: And they impose a limitation on themselves in advance.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And then they make all these attempts to overcome what
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I would argue is a self-imposed limitation.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: It's not hard, to your point. It's just unpracticed. It's unfamiliar.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: That's all it is. I mean, crawling was hard or
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: walking was hard until it was easy. Everything seems hard
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: until it's easy. It's not hard. It's just unpracticed. And
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: if you give yourself a little grace, take it out
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: of line.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: If you're really focused on the enjoyment piece, the hard
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: isn't a big deal. It's only because you're trying to
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: get somewhere. And that's the root of this whole issue.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: The whole issue is you're trying to get somewhere, even
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: with your spiritual practice, even with your happiness practice, even
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: with relaxation.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: We're making hard work of relaxation.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: That's the very root cause of the entire unhappiness epidemic
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: is trying to get somewhere you're not, trying to enjoy
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: somewhere you're not.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: And that's always impossible. You can only enjoy where you are.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Amen. Enjoy the journey, right? And that is something that
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I had to really learn to do because I, I
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: was always like, okay, what's the next task? What's the
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: next accomplishment? What's, and then it would happen. And then
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you don't even take five minutes to say, okay, I
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: got to where I wanted to go. Now what's next?
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: The hedonic treadmill.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Adaptation humans adjust to everything, even a huge lottery win
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and even, um, paralysis. We're very resilient. We don't realize
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: how resilient we are. And that's both a good thing
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and a troublesome thing. When it's something bad that happens
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and we adjust. It can be really wonderful when it's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: something good that we adjust to. We're often so deeply
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: disappointed that it didn't deliver the kind of satisfaction fulfillment
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that we always hoped that it would. And if it
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: did deliver any of it, it doesn't last nearly as long.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: We always underestimate that effect. And that's what keeps us
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: chasing things. The brain is desired design. It's wired for that, right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: It's wired for that. And that's, but it's outdated software.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Outdated software in our brains, right? Right.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I was just, I will say this for what you're saying, right?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Not to think of it as work, right? We don't
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: use the word work or hard, but in speaking with
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: someone the other day, they said, well, because I talk
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: a lot about tools because these tools have changed my life, right?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: They're little behavioral interrupters that I do. And they've allowed
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: me to change my behavior and the way that I
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: think and rewiring the brain, right? The neuroplasticity and all
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of that. And they were like, well, that didn't work
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: for me. None of those work for me. And I
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, what works for me doesn't necessarily work
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: But how many times did you do it? How many
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: times did you, you know, do the action, do the tool?
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: Because It does take time.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Think about how long you've been living the way that
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you're living. And now you're trying to rediscover and change
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: the way that you're thinking.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Right. Preach that. Oh, yes.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: So we've got to take and it is action. Action's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: a good thing because action creates change. But if you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: really want the change, you've got to do the action.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And you know what? When you do the action. you
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: actually have the wins. It's a win every day.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Well, you nailed it. It's inspired action. It works if
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: you work it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And which is, so in situations like.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: That, and I love, I love the way you handled
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: that and navigated that.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: The truth is, if you don't believe it will work,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: it probably won't work for you. Yeah. Right?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: And sometimes we don't want it to work because we
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: don't want to change our life. We don't want to
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: keep up this thing that we're doing.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Fine.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: There are other paths or approaches or teachers or methods
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: or methodologies that might work better for you. Not necessarily
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: because the technique is better, although they might be. It's
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: often simply because your belief or faith or enjoyment in
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: doing it.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Is greater.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: It's greater.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's inspired action, which is action that is aligned
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: with who and what we are inside.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Including our beliefs. Yes, most things will work if you
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: work it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I would argue that almost any path, any religious or
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: spiritual teaching, any personal development, course could take you there
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: if you went deep enough.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: To any of them. If you went deep enough into
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: any of those teachings or practices, you would.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Land in the same spot ultimately and eventually because it's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: not really about the technique.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: It's not even so much about the teacher. It's about your.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Commitment to being happy, right? It's more about your heart
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and it's about your belief in that teacher or teaching.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So I love that.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Love that. So let's talk about self-discovery. And that's
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: something you shared with me prior to us being together that,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Self-discovery is not finding yourself. It's feeling yourself.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I love that. What is that? What did you mean
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: by that?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: So a story about you is not you. Your thoughts
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: about you are not you. Your thoughts about anything. Aren't
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: that thing? Um, you, there's a great quote. When you
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: teach a child, the name of a tree, the child
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: never sees a tree again. They only see their ideas
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of a tree. They never really look. And so, um,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Our true self, the self that is changeless, the self
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that has been with us our entire lives, it's clearly
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: not our bodies.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Our bodies have changed in myriad of ways throughout our lives.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: We'll continue to do so. It's not our brain. It's
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: not our thoughts. All these things are changing.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: There's something within all of us, something that is all
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of us, that is changeless and unconditional and inmoving and
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: unshakable in.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Its existence, in its presence, in its awareness. That changes.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Presence, existence, awareness, peaceful aliveness is who and what you
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: ultimately are. It's non-physical more than it's physical. It's invisible
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: more than it's visible. And that is something that you
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: are feeling, experiencing all.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Day, every day.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: But we get lost in the experiences of our lives
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and the thoughts in our minds. And it seems like
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: it's covered up and that we need to rediscover our
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: true self. But the true self that you ultimately are,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you can't escape. There's nothing you can do that can
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: escape it. What you can do is you can escape
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: your awareness of it, right? So it's sort of like
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a fan that's playing in the background. At some point,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you get so lost in your day or in your
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: work that you don't notice the fan that's blowing.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: All day every day. But if you just tune in.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: A little, you can hear it again. It's sort of
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: like watching a movie on a big movie screen. We
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: get so lost in the images and And the plot
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: is sexy. Now it's scary and it's exciting and now
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: it's depressing. We get so lost in that we forget
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: that the reality of this entire show is the.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: Screen that holds or welcomes or loves or accepts all
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: of the images of light that are projected onto the screen.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So the idea is can I be more aware of
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the screen than I am the images on the screen
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: so that I can feel the peaceful aliveness of the
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: love and the joy that the screen feels regardless of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: what seems.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: To be happening on the screen or in our lives. Right.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: So it's not about finding yourself. That self cannot be lost,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: was never lost, will never be lost. It's about feeling
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: a peaceful aliveness that is the self as consistently as possible.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I get it, but it's like a little deep.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing. It seems deep because you're thinking
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I just want to say, like, I can
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: get it a little bit, but I think about people
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: listening that maybe they're just starting this path.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: And that made that because I just know for me
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: in my my path of healing, it's like you hear things.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And then it's when you're ready to hear it that
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: you understand it. So when you're just starting.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: It's hard. to go deeper because you don't even know
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: what that is.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: So here's the simple way of saying it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Feel into your hands right now. There is a very subtle.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Vibrating energy in your hands. You can close your eyes
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and still feel into your hands. You can close your
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: eyes and still feel into your feet, into your legs,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: into your stomach. You can feel there's life in there.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: There's life in your body. There's some kind of energy
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: in there. Don't know what it is. Don't know what
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to call it. Don't know where it came from. Don't
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: know where it will go. That energy that you feel
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: in a very subtle way right now, that energy is
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: ultimately you.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: It's not something in you. It is you.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: So when you drop the body, the energy that ultimately
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you're feeling in your hand, that continues on, right?
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: We know that energy can't be created or destroyed. It
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: just changes form. So that energy is you.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: And all you're wanting to do all day long is
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: just notice that energy And spend time with it the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: way you would with your.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Mom or your sister or your brother or a small puppy.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Not to get something out of it. Not to get
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: good at it. Simply because it feels so good. It
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: doesn't feel alive.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: It's just full stop. There's no story. There doesn't gain commentary.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: There's no figuring it out. There's no finding it. It's
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: always there. Let me just notice. In the middle of
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: a conversation, can I just notice that there's a little
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: energy in here. It doesn't feel like joy right away.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like peace. It doesn't feel like anything.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: But the more that you pay attention to it, like
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: a dimmer switch on a halogen lamp, it just.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Continues to get brighter and brighter and brighter without you
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: doing anything.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Right. So it's just spending.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Time noticing and feeling the life that's within you for
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: its own sake.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Slow down, everybody.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about actually putting. OK, so we're putting
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: in the work and you experience this yourself. but we're
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: not seeing the progress right away or we're not seeing
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: what we want right away, right? Maybe you feel like
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you're regressing. I'm doing the work. Why don't I feel better?
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: What did that period teach you?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I made a goal out of happiness. And that was
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the only thing standing between me and happiness. So the
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: myth and misconception that continued, despite me being on a
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: happiness journey, pursuit was that it was always something that
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: was out ahead of me in front of me, outside
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: of me and somebody or something else in the future.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: And that I could get there if I worked hard enough. Yeah. Um,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: the invitation there is to say, no, right here and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: right now, whether I feel it or not, happiness is
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: not only within me.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: It is me. I'm a wash in it. I'm nothing
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: but happiness.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Now that's something at first, it's just mental. But the
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: idea was like, Rob, you're still chasing happiness. The difference is, yes,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: you're clear. Instead of calling it success, you're calling it happiness.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: But to a large extent, the same programming is operating
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: in the same dysfunctional way. So for me, it was like, okay,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: happiness is presence. Wherever I am, especially if I don't
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: want to be there, how can I be.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: There and not make my pain more painful? I'm here now.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I'm at work. You're at work.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: You're working out at the gym. Can you find a
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: way to be there without increasing your pain? And know
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: that this moment, whatever moment it is, is the only
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: moment you have. There's no future moment ever. The future
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: shows up as another present moment. Now, if you want
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: to be happy, now is the time to be happy.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And it's not about creating another goal that we call
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: happiness that we chase somewhere in the future. So that was,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: for me, is the primary realization is that it doesn't
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: matter what you believe the future will hold. It doesn't,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I promise, hold greater happiness or greater opportunity happiness. You
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: don't have to be better or smarter or more knowledgeable
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: about happiness to discover it. In fact, some of the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: people who know the least amount about happiness or the
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: science of success or happiness.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Are the happiest people because they don't complicate it by
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: trying to find.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Something out in the world that they call happiness that
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: we all know is only within Right.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: You're giving it a definition of what your happiness will
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: be when you don't, you don't really know what your
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: happiness will be. And maybe you've been programmed by other
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: people telling you what your happiness will be.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: That's right. That's right. True happiness doesn't have a look.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have a sound. True happiness is formless. So
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: it might seem to take a form, but that's always projecting.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: That's why the same person that made you happy yesterday
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: makes you miserable today.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: That's proof. That's proof right there. That's not informed. If
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: it was, it would be happy to hear it.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: A few of those people, but I'll keep them in
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: my life. Well, what about gratitude, the practice of gratitude?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: That was a huge one for me.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: It's another synonym for happiness. I mean, peace, love, happiness, gratitude, fulfillment.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: These are all synonyms, right? So gratitude is appreciating or
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: enjoying what you have for someone's sake.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: That's also happiness. That's also love.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: If you're enjoying something for its own sake, you can
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: choose any synonym you want. They all amount to the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: same thing. They're not different energies. They're just different ways
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: of thinking about and talking about the same energy.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that I always liked to
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: when I was in the beginning, I had to take,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: like you said, go into my body. Right. So I'd
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: leave the head.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: We think we think that the brain is the only
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: brain in our body where our heart, our gut, you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: we have other brains. So I had to literally visualize
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: my heart and opening up my heart because I had
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: built so many walls, closed myself down to try to
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: protect myself and live in that survival mode.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: That's right. Visualization is so powerful.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: It's a great tool, great technique for facilitating, opening up,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: facilitating performance, facilitating a greater, deeper recognition or realization of happiness.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: No question about it. I sometimes used to imagine or
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: visualize a little Buddha or a little Jesus.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Or a little Muhammad or a little Lao Tzu inside
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: of me that was just growing bigger and bigger and
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: bigger and taking over my entire being, my entire body.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I just love that feeling.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: It just helped me feel like it wasn't all up
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: to me and that there was something within me, even
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: if it was a tiny little seed, a little miniature
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: version of any of these like spiritual teachers, um, that
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: was increasingly unfolding as me, which, which strangely enough is precisely, um,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: what this life is I think ultimately about, which is, um,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: unfolding into the deeper awareness that whatever it is you want,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: you already are and you already have.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: So I love what you said there in terms of visualization,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: really powerful, the opening heart one.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: So let's do a couple of quick little tools, takeaways
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: for those that are listening or watching right now. So
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: maybe someone who's feeling lost, stuck, they've gone through a divorce,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: they're newly sober, their children left home. They're feeling really down.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Where do they begin?
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Accepting that you're feeling down.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And then I'd argue that one of the best things
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: you can do, instead of giving it an emotional label,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: and I get the value of that, a lot of therapists,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: psychologists would recommend that, I would actually recommend something different,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: which is not going to the emotional label about it.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Going to the body and just noticing where you feel anything.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Just do a little body scan. Where do I feel
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: my legs? Oh, in my stomach I feel some tightness.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: And sticking... to the physical sensation, not the emotional label.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Because we very quickly make meaning out of things and
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: complicate our lives and increase our suffering.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: Notice, where do you feel what you're saying you feel?
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Where in the body?
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: And then you can offer a little additional somatic sort
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: of experiencing tools, which is, if you had to give
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: it a color, what color is it?
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: If you had to give it a temperature, is it hot?
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Is it cold?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Is it lukewarm? If it was a texture, what texture
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: is it? Is it spongy or coarse or hard like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: a rock. All of this is meant to keep you
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: in your five physical senses, keep you in your body
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: and out of your brain. Most of us think that
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: we're processing emotions, but we're actually just ruminating. We're not
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: extinguishing the feelings. We're not processing them.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: We're feeding them. We're fueling them.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: And so one of the best things you do is
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: go to the body. Don't give it an emotional label.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Don't make up a story around it. Just sort of
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: take it like a man or like a woman. Just
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: take it.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: What do you feel? Where is it? Okay. Now just
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: experience it for a little while.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And then if you spend a little time, just feeling it,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: notice there are other areas of your body that feel
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: light and free and healthy and they're unaffected.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: And just notice how much more of your body feels
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: that way. Right?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: So that's one of the best things you could possibly
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: do is not allow the brain to convince you.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: To feed the unhappy stories. Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Which that many of us do.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: It's that practice. It is definitely that practice. So where
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: can we find, there's two books that you've put out
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: happiness from the inside and inside out, excuse me, and
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: love from the inside out. So happiness from the inside
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: out and love from the inside out. So, I mean, I,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I myself cannot wait to, to read those books because
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I know that there's so much value there. So where
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: can people find you and find your books?
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure you've lived them. You continue to live
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: them both, Marcy. So I'm not sure you need them.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: But I appreciate your vote of confidence and your support.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: You can find Happiness From the Inside Out and Love
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: From the Inside Out everywhere great books are sold, including
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, those are probably the best places to find them.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I would encourage most people to start with Happiness From
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the Inside Out.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: Because Love From The Inside Out is sort of an.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Outgrowth or sort of graduate level course. And even though
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: it says it's about love, it's really about happiness because
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: happiness is love.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: It's just sharing your love. So yes, thank you for
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: reminding folks of that.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Well, you're also a happiness coach. So where can people
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: find you?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, you can find me probably anywhere Marcy is. You
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: can also find me at my website, which is coachrobmack.com.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: You can find me on most social media platforms, probably
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: most consistently Instagram at Rob Mack, M-A-C-K official.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the work you're doing and
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: helping others to find their happy because it's not unattainable
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: and we don't have to stay stuck where we are.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: And you have just given us a plethora of knowledge
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and educating us and allowing us to start to make
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: the step forward. And I so appreciate you.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: I received that fully. I've been working on receiving my
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: whole life. So thank you for that. I also just
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: want to reflect it back.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I deeply, truly appreciate you, admire you, and I'm inspired
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: by you in ways that I can never put words to.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: I mean it when I say you.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Really are a living light, Marcy, and the fact that
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: you would entertain and have a conversation with me about
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: something that.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I feel is so critical to all of our lives,
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: it means the world. So thank you for the work
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: you do. Thank you for being the person that you are, truly.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Oh my goodness. Well, we feel good after this.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: May everyone feel the love and happiness that we feel
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: through our conversation. So thank you, Robert. Again, I truly
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: appreciate you coming on the show.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I'd love that. Bye. Thank you all so much for
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: tuning in today. I'm so grateful you were here. If
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: today's show resonated, please like, subscribe, share it with somebody
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: who needs to hear it. And I think a lot
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: of us need to hear it so we can find
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: our happy. But I also want to talk to those
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: that are in recovery, that are on their own healing journey.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: I'm over 10 years sober, and today I get to
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: use the very experiences I once felt ashamed about to
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: help other people. I'm the founder of Wake Up, You're
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Not Broken Recovery Workshop, where I help people to recover,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: rebuild a stronger foundation through connection, self-worth, emotional healing, and
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: practical tools that they can carry into their lives. I'm
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: also the author of Chaos to Clarity, Seeing the Signs
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: and Breaking the Cycles, and Wake Up, You're Not Broken,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: a companion for your first 30 days of sobriety. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: if you're listening today and you're struggling, I want you
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: to leave with this. You don't have to have everything
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: figured out. You don't have to become someone else to
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: be worthy, and you are not broken. You are beginning.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: And Robert Mack shared that very, very clearly today because
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: we just have to start where we are. And that
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: is so powerful. And we find that happiness from the inside.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And Robert shared how we can find that. And I
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: want to thank all of you for being here with
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: me today. And I'll see you next Thursday with an
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: all new episode.