Latest / AFR Saints / Saints Lose to Vikings: Sean Salisbury on Tyler Shough’s Struggles & How New Orleans Can End Losing Streak

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Saints Lose to Vikings: Sean Salisbury on Tyler Shough’s Struggles & How New Orleans Can End Losing Streak · AFR Saints

• 0:00
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• 0:26
  Speaker 1: we always appreciate it, man.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: How are you?
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  Speaker 3: I'm doing great, Matt. Good to be on with you, brother.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks, man.
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  Speaker 1: Look, this is a brutal weekend for the local teams.
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  Speaker 1: I want to start with the Saints, and specifically your
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  Speaker 1: area of expertise with Tyler Shuck, who was 16-25 for 96.
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  Speaker 2: Yards, Sean.
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  Speaker 1: A month ago, he was thrown for four bills on
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  Speaker 1: the road against Detroit.
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  Speaker 2: I'll just make this very open-ended and simple. What happened?
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  Speaker 4: Well... Matt, I like your show and nothing like your show,
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  Speaker 4: but I go on in Minnesota every week and we're
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  Speaker 4: constantly talking about a team and you and I have
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  Speaker 4: discussed it that offensively that they've been subpar. They've been
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  Speaker 4: very average meeting the Vikings this year and it's been
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  Speaker 4: special teams and defense.
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  Speaker 3: That they just have.
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  Speaker 4: And in this game, Kyler Murray, actually Matt, you know
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  Speaker 4: how I talk about making the simple play.
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  Speaker 3: Kyler Murray was not spectacular, but was The ball didn't
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  Speaker 3: hit the ground much.
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  Speaker 4: He protected the ball and played pretty basic football, and
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  Speaker 4: they did enough, right, offensively, which you know how I
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  Speaker 4: feel about that.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just telling you, going into a game right now, Brian.
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  Speaker 4: Flores is creating a lot of problems for offensive coordinators
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  Speaker 4: and offenses. Confusion, pressure, show pressure back off, and this
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  Speaker 4: should not surprise some people. Listen, as I back up
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  Speaker 4: just a second, let's pump the brakes a little bit
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  Speaker 4: on Oh, my gosh, it's in his second year of starting,
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  Speaker 4: not even a full season yet as he played.
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  Speaker 3: Tyler Shook, what happened? He's not very good.
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  Speaker 4: And I understand when we see pros go through struggles,
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  Speaker 4: we wonder that. I can take you around the league,
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  Speaker 4: and I can take you in games that Brian Flores
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  Speaker 4: has coordinated this year.
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  Speaker 3: He's created struggles for a lot of quarterbacks.
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  Speaker 4: So while I'm not giving a hall pass to Shook,
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  Speaker 4: I think we also have to understand that this should
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  Speaker 4: have been expected at some point, but also– the confusion
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  Speaker 4: it created.
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  Speaker 3: And they were never able to come out of it.
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  Speaker 4: What confusion does, it creates quarterbacks to make decisions they
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  Speaker 4: wouldn't normally make and, you know, shook through the ball
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  Speaker 4: to the other team.
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  Speaker 3: Offensively, they just couldn't get it going. And think about
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  Speaker 3: this also, Matt, how many yards they rushed for? 55. Exactly.
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  Speaker 3: So I don't care how good.
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  Speaker 2: I'm getting there.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't care how good the quarterback is. You
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  Speaker 3: do that.
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  Speaker 4: Look at even the Rams game last night. They didn't
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  Speaker 4: rush it very well. They threw it 50 plus times and, and,
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  Speaker 4: stafford looked like well the mvp of the league and
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  Speaker 4: they still get beat so point is tyler shook is
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  Speaker 4: not going to be the biggest problem on this football
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  Speaker 4: team i assure you that he can play and he's
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  Speaker 4: only going to get better they ran into confusion they
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  Speaker 4: couldn't block anybody at the line of scrimmage and or
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  Speaker 4: move in the line of scrimmage with the run game
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  Speaker 4: and the vikings did just enough you did they didn't
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  Speaker 4: create you know the saints defense didn't create turnovers there's
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  Speaker 4: problems there a very average Vikings offense, protected for the
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  Speaker 4: most part.
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  Speaker 3: What they were trying to get done. And right now
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  Speaker 3: it's defense and special teams carrying Minnesota.
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  Speaker 4: So while it's ugly, but it's a bad combo, Matty,
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  Speaker 4: when there's pressure, you're facing a very pressure-type coordinator that
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  Speaker 4: you don't hit 100 yards passing and you don't hit
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  Speaker 4: 40 yards or 30 yards rushing, you're in a.
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  Speaker 3: World of hurt trying to win a football game.
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  Speaker 4: And I don't care if you play them in the
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  Speaker 4: parking lot at home or in your backyard. It's just
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  Speaker 4: not going to happen. It was a piss-poor, dismal performance
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  Speaker 4: by the Saints last week.
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  Speaker 1: To your point, Sean, Minnesota had two red zone turnovers.
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  Speaker 1: One led to the Saints' defensive score, which the Saints
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  Speaker 1: often scored once. I mean, this game could, should have
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  Speaker 1: been much worse than it was, but I want to
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  Speaker 1: dig deeper there and shuck because.
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  Speaker 2: And about.
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  Speaker 3: That real quick, Matty, about the kind of Murray. The ball,
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  Speaker 3: like I said, in his complete.
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  Speaker 4: You watch Murray, we either see, oh my gosh, what
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  Speaker 4: a horrible decision and a throw or a spectacular play.
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  Speaker 4: In Minnesota, he's just like three or four games starting
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  Speaker 4: now considering the concussion. So he's getting into it. And
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  Speaker 4: that counts with the ball not hitting the ground. You
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  Speaker 4: turn it over to the other team, and they take
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  Speaker 4: advantage of it. And the Vikings weren't that good offensively,
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  Speaker 4: so it shouldn't have been this close. So go, please
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  Speaker 4: carry on, because that goes to show you just even
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  Speaker 4: more how poorly the Saints played offensively.
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  Speaker 1: So this is where I want to ask about the pressure.
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  Speaker 1: And so this is where you probably have to dig
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  Speaker 1: a little deeper, because I can look at the numbers.
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  Speaker 1: So Minnesota pressured Shuck 12 times, sacked him once.
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  Speaker 2: Last week against Atlanta, he.
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  Speaker 1: Was pressured 27 times and sacked twice in that game.
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  Speaker 1: So Atlanta pressured him more, but he had a better
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  Speaker 1: statistical day. So what was different if they weren't pressuring
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  Speaker 1: him as much as last week and he still performed
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  Speaker 1: so badly?
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  Speaker 4: And that's why I said when I say pressure, Matt,
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  Speaker 4: I'm not even talking about– you're talking about pressures from
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  Speaker 4: blitzes and stuff. Right. And the pressures– hell– We've seen
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  Speaker 4: in the past, if you can get pressure with three
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  Speaker 4: and four guys, we've seen that in Super Bowls with
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  Speaker 4: the Giants against the Patriots, that pressures don't always come
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  Speaker 4: from being pressured with secondary blitzes or linebacker dogs. And
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  Speaker 4: I'm not sure where Atlanta sits in it, but I
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  Speaker 4: think they're near the top in defensive pressures throughout the
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  Speaker 4: year on most teams.
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  Speaker 3: With the defensive pressures.
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  Speaker 4: What it does, and when I say pressure, it's the pressure,
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  Speaker 4: not just the physical, tangible stuff, I even look because Brian,
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  Speaker 4: Brian Flores has this reputation, Matty, in the league and
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  Speaker 4: about when you see two or three pressures, what's the
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  Speaker 4: first thing we say? He blitzes 65 percent of the time.
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  Speaker 3: That is not true. I've looked at these numbers.
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  Speaker 4: What he does is he's not willing to live by
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  Speaker 4: just the same way to approach it every week. He's
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  Speaker 4: done a great job. And this is where the non
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  Speaker 4: tangible part of it comes in. You can't reach out
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  Speaker 4: and touch it. Oh, there's a blitz from the secondary.
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  Speaker 4: There's a linebacker dog. It's the confusion he tries to
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  Speaker 4: create to get you thinking that that's all you're going
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  Speaker 4: to get. Because he does create some illusions with the
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  Speaker 4: way he does it. Because if I go on a
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  Speaker 4: show or I host a show and say, hey, got
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  Speaker 4: a guest on. Man, Brian Flores, one of the top
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  Speaker 4: pressure guys in the league. The first thing without anybody
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  Speaker 4: looking at the numbers and say, oh, yeah, he's got
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  Speaker 4: that reputation. Well, that reputation is a reputation in truth.
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  Speaker 4: That's not a lot of pressures. And he's not dialing
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  Speaker 4: up 75% blitzes. What he's doing is, creates confusion, not
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  Speaker 4: only for the quarterback, and you can see at times,
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  Speaker 4: Tyler Shook was confused, and that's normal in a guy
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  Speaker 4: in his infancy and playing in the NFL. But you're
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  Speaker 4: trying to, Brian's trying to create confusion, not just on
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  Speaker 4: the quarterback, but on the left guard, on who the
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  Speaker 4: back's supposed.
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  Speaker 3: To pick up.
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  Speaker 4: So even when it's not, and Matty, I can't begin
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  Speaker 4: to tell you the stress that a quarterback goes through
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  Speaker 4: when you're not real sure, but you feel like that
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  Speaker 4: there's 15 guys rushing and there's not The stress, you
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  Speaker 4: go to the mental anguish of, okay, what's the next series?
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  Speaker 3: What's the next series? So Brian Flores has created this
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  Speaker 3: element of.
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  Speaker 4: And he's done a great job of it, of pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure,
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  Speaker 4: when it's really not pressure, pressure, pressure.
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  Speaker 3: Some of it is self-inflicted by past tape.
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  Speaker 4: I'm just telling you, I discuss this and think about
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  Speaker 4: it and look at it every week. And you're right,
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  Speaker 4: the numbers when you plug them in are like, well,
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  Speaker 4: they blitzed and pressured twice as much. The people who
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  Speaker 4: are doing it, number one, and the execution of it,
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  Speaker 4: he gets into your.
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  Speaker 3: Head throughout the game week.
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  Speaker 4: Just like if you reversed it to an offense that
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  Speaker 4: does a lot of window dressing, right, a lot of formations,
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  Speaker 4: a lot of personnel groupings, that it may look like
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  Speaker 4: they've run 65 plays, different plays.
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  Speaker 3: Right, Matty?
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  Speaker 4: But what it is is you dress it up enough
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  Speaker 4: to where it's really about 12 or 15 different plays
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  Speaker 4: that the defense all week long in practice, well, what
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  Speaker 4: if this happens? Well, if my aunt had balls, she'd
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  Speaker 4: be my uncle. OK, it doesn't always happen. But you
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  Speaker 4: go to the line of scrimmage creating that in your mind.
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  Speaker 4: So it's not just the blitz happy like when I
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  Speaker 4: played with Jim or when I could Jim Johnson, the
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  Speaker 4: former Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator or Buddy Ryan, where they're
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  Speaker 4: just constantly creating the every time you drop back, it's
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  Speaker 4: like this is too much.
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  Speaker 3: So it's it's the perception process.
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  Speaker 4: And the confusion, which to me leads to a lot
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  Speaker 4: more poor decisions, sometimes than just the pressure. If I
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  Speaker 4: know what's coming, even if it's pressure, I'll throw a
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  Speaker 4: hot read or a side adjustment or throw the ball away.
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  Speaker 3: It's that, is it or isn't it? It creates a
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  Speaker 3: lot of confusion.
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  Speaker 4: And the Vikings are winning simply by playing defense and
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  Speaker 4: special teams because the offense wouldn't beat.
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  Speaker 3: If you don't have the offense that New Orleans did last.
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  Speaker 4: Week, the Vikings would have been in a world of
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  Speaker 4: hurt if they were playing a team that could actually
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  Speaker 4: score against them.
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  Speaker 1: Sean Salisbury is with us. Last thing, it wasn't just
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  Speaker 1: this weekend when the Saints ran for 55 yards. They're
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  Speaker 1: 29th in the NFL right now in rushing offense. People
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  Speaker 1: are talking about not having H in there and Kelvin
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  Speaker 1: Banks being injured, and that matters, but they couldn't run
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  Speaker 1: the ball the first two weeks when they were there.
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  Speaker 2: So why can't this team run the football?
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  Speaker 4: I don't think they're very physical at the point of attack, Matty.
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  Speaker 4: I'm just trying, you know, you sat there and we
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: all try to get a little bit over, we overanalyze stuff.
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  Speaker 4: To me, Bill Parcells used to live by this. I
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  Speaker 4: played with Cody Green, had a philosophy about this too.
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  Speaker 4: It's like, give us your best run. He'd tell Brian Billick,
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  Speaker 4: give us your best run. And it really didn't matter
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  Speaker 4: if it was an eight man front. We'd call BYOB,
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  Speaker 4: bring your own blocker, meaning the back, make a guy miss.
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  Speaker 4: Sometimes you got to do it or inside the red zone.
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  Speaker 4: I honestly, from my vantage point, now I could dive
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  Speaker 4: into deep numbers of attempts and you know how I
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  Speaker 4: feel about attempts versus, you know, you rush the ball more,
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  Speaker 4: you usually win. I think that Kellen, because of his
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  Speaker 4: offensive coordinator background, and I believe this, and it's not
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  Speaker 4: a bad thing, but it can be if it continues
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  Speaker 4: to stockpile.
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  Speaker 3: One is they're not as gifted running it when they're injured.
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  Speaker 3: That's a fact. And you just can't lose guys and
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  Speaker 3: just say, well, we're just as good.
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  Speaker 4: You know, not the old school, Mike Shanahan, Denver Broncos,
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  Speaker 4: you plug anybody and they're rushing for 120. And the
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  Speaker 4: same as Maddie, you can watch him. You know, this
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  Speaker 4: is the naked eye from a fan sitting in the stands.
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  Speaker 4: they're not moving a lot of piles at the line
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  Speaker 4: of scrimmage. So what happens from a coordinator slash head
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  Speaker 4: coach who's calling the play standpoint is you abandon these
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  Speaker 4: things early because you realize right now, in truth, even
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  Speaker 4: though we'd want them to run more, you run uphill
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  Speaker 4: three and out, three and out, three and out, then
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  Speaker 4: the frustration of playing, chasing people down. What happens is
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  Speaker 4: you say, well, what gives me the best chance to win?
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  Speaker 4: It's like playing your best player. Well, people are calling
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: for another player because a guy is struggling. And then
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: you put him in and things don't get better. or
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  Speaker 4: a quarterback struggling, like, well, you know, the rumors floating
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  Speaker 4: around and we're hearing it all over the place in
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: college sports and NFL, like, are we going to bench
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  Speaker 4: this guy?
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  Speaker 3: Is this guy going to get benched? Texas A &
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: M benching their guy. Well, you got to ask you,
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  Speaker 3: does the next guy give us the best chance to win?
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  Speaker 4: It's the same here. Where's the best chance in truth
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  Speaker 4: for the Saints to win? It's dropping back and throwing it.
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  Speaker 3: It just is.
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  Speaker 4: And they're just not finesse teams or teams in Kellen's background.
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  Speaker 3: We know this in Dallas, in Philly.
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  Speaker 4: They like to score, and they just do, and it's
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  Speaker 4: easy to get locked up. It's just like if you're
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  Speaker 4: a pressure guy, it's hard to play zone. It just is,
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  Speaker 4: and if you're a play caller that wants to do
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  Speaker 4: what he does, he's sitting there.
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  Speaker 3: Looking at it, and he watches them practice all week, Matty.
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  Speaker 3: He just does. So you're saying, okay, it's third and five.
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  Speaker 4: Derrick Henry's not my backfield, and we don't move the
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  Speaker 4: pile like the old Philadelphia Eagles did or like the
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  Speaker 4: Detroit Lions when they had their two-headed backs in the backfield.
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  Speaker 4: We've got to do it some other way. Short passing
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  Speaker 4: game that looks like it's an extension of the run,
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: but the truth is you line up and run it
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  Speaker 4: a bunch right now unless you've got a horrible run defense.
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  Speaker 3: That is not their chance to win.
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  Speaker 4: The problem is when that's dormant and not doing anything
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  Speaker 4: and you abandon it because you know it's not working,
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  Speaker 4: and then you go to throw it all the time,
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  Speaker 4: you run into a confusion defense, meaning Brian Flores' defense,
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  Speaker 4: and if the quarterback's not playing lights out, you're in trouble.
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  Speaker 4: So that's a damned if you do damned if you
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  Speaker 4: don't game this past Sunday, but Their best chance to
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  Speaker 4: win right now is putting the ball in the quarterback's
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  Speaker 4: hands because they're not moving any pile. And it's really
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  Speaker 4: hard for a runner to run when the line of
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  Speaker 4: scrimmage is in your own backfield.
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  Speaker 3: And even when they do have a chance, they're not.
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  Speaker 4: Making people miss and pushing the pile as a runner
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  Speaker 4: or an offensive line.
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  Speaker 3: I don't blame him, but I can tell you this.
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  Speaker 4: You will not win many games unless your quarterback's a
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  Speaker 4: hero each week if you can't run the football or
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  Speaker 4: you abandon it.
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  Speaker 3: I see this in offensive coordinators sometimes. Three and out,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: three and out. You're like, nope. Let's go back to
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: what we do. If I'm going down, I'm going to
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: put an oar in Tyler Shook's hands.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately, there was more than one leak in that
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  Speaker 4: boat last week or one hole in that boat that
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: caused a lot of leaks, and they had no shot offensively.
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  Speaker 2: Two or five games, the Saints have one rush beyond
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  Speaker 2: 20 yards, and.
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  Speaker 3: It was shut.
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  Speaker 4: And for a guy who can throw it and has
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: got good feet, Matty, you're not going to beat a
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: lot of teams on Sunday, Saturday, or Friday if that's
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  Speaker 4: all you do running the football.