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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 140 · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
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0:17
Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
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Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered.
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Speaker 2: By News Talks.
0:24
Speaker 3: It be Welcome into Rugby to Riggs powered by Excess Solutions,
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Speaker 3: elevating you and your business through a high level. Well, Liam,
0:32
Speaker 3: we're back for another week, Elliott Smith, lillam Apire and
0:35
Speaker 3: we have departed sunny Sydney for Wendy Wellington. As we
0:39
Speaker 3: come to you this week, building up too bleddersload, too
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Speaker 3: sad to leave the sun behind and the Kuji Pavilion
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Speaker 3: behind and.
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Speaker 2: Everything else that with Sydney.
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Speaker 3: But we have some more work to do and the
0:53
Speaker 3: the All Blacks have another test to build before.
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Speaker 2: But it was a great week in Sydney. It was
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Speaker 2: great city, interesting results, interesting tests and look at really
1:02
Speaker 2: warms the arms of the heart, warms the cockles to
1:05
Speaker 2: be in our nation's capital early. I know you're Maive
1:08
Speaker 2: well Etric fans, so it's very very special for you
1:11
Speaker 2: to have a homecoming.
1:12
Speaker 3: Well I was hoping to have a jersey to represent
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Speaker 3: my love of the city, but I've managed to somehow.
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Speaker 2: Not get that jersey. Yes, yes, I should have brought
1:19
Speaker 2: that to present you, but that's witing for you. When
1:21
Speaker 2: we get back to walk on a great special that
1:24
Speaker 2: will be great.
1:25
Speaker 3: Right, Let's dive into this All Blacks Wallabies test in Sydney,
1:29
Speaker 3: the All Blacks winning thirty one and twenty eight. I
1:33
Speaker 3: guest the same old issues really cropping up for the
1:37
Speaker 3: All Blacks, not taking their opportunities and then getting themselves
1:41
Speaker 3: into a fourth quorder arm wrestle against an opponent. This
1:46
Speaker 3: time they didn't end up on the winning side, but
1:49
Speaker 3: almost to an extent, feels like a loss. Even Scott
1:52
Speaker 3: Roberson no painting it, you know, as we've won the cup,
1:55
Speaker 3: but you look at that and Neil Blacks really could
1:58
Speaker 3: have belted the Wallabies and torched them.
2:01
Speaker 2: Instead they just squeaked home. Really, yeah, you're right, it
2:05
Speaker 2: does feel like a loss of many respects and I
2:07
Speaker 2: think that was certainly the feedback coming through when the
2:12
Speaker 2: WhatsApps was blowing up from people back home. A lot
2:15
Speaker 2: of frustration, and I think that frustration stems from light
2:18
Speaker 2: You say that the same endemic issues. Five tests in
2:23
Speaker 2: a row now the All Blacks have failed to score
2:25
Speaker 2: point beyond the fifty second minute. Three of those matches
2:28
Speaker 2: are blowing massive leads, and this game they scored three
2:33
Speaker 2: points after the twenty sixth minute. They're staggering, and particularly
2:39
Speaker 2: given their start with the four triers. They blew the
2:42
Speaker 2: Wallabies off the park and then allowed the Wallabies back
2:46
Speaker 2: into the contest, and then it's their finishing to matches.
2:52
Speaker 2: They've now had five yellow cards in their last three tests.
2:56
Speaker 2: They are losing their heads. Their game management isn't there.
2:59
Speaker 2: There's real questions about the on field leadership. And while
3:03
Speaker 2: they did close out this match, it really was clinging
3:07
Speaker 2: on for dear life, it was.
3:09
Speaker 3: And this team went from one that was playing some slick,
3:12
Speaker 3: sublime rugby in the opening twenty five to thirty minutes
3:17
Speaker 3: to be in the back twenty of them. And it's
3:19
Speaker 3: a team that didn't look like they knew each other
3:20
Speaker 3: and that it had just been thrust all the park
3:22
Speaker 3: together for the first time. And I don't get how
3:26
Speaker 3: you can go from that in the first half to
3:27
Speaker 3: being so clunky, so disorganized, so lacking of a game
3:31
Speaker 3: plan in the closing stages of the game. I think
3:35
Speaker 3: if we flip it around a bit, I think there's
3:36
Speaker 3: a bit of a tactic from the All Blacks to
3:38
Speaker 3: try and blow teams off the park early and it's
3:41
Speaker 3: worked to an extent because they managed to build up
3:43
Speaker 3: some leads against South Africa in the first Eastern Johannesburg.
3:46
Speaker 3: They've got to twenty seven to seventeen again on Argentina
3:51
Speaker 3: Wellingson you think back to that. They got to lead
3:53
Speaker 3: early in Auckland as well. They managed to do that,
3:56
Speaker 3: but they don't seem to know how to play the
3:59
Speaker 3: back end of the game. Great have a fast start,
4:01
Speaker 3: but you've got to actually close out games. And it's
4:03
Speaker 3: becoming a really big issue for this All Blacks team
4:06
Speaker 3: that they just can't seem to not only finding points,
4:09
Speaker 3: but just look like they're capable of doing anything in
4:12
Speaker 3: the back close at half of games, they just as
4:15
Speaker 3: you said, lacks some bonfield leadership and game management. And
4:18
Speaker 3: that last twenty to thirty minutes on the weekend, and
4:22
Speaker 3: if the game had gone five minutes longer, there's a
4:24
Speaker 3: real chance they would have lost that.
4:26
Speaker 2: And I think the thing that highlights it most for
4:28
Speaker 2: me is this was an area of strength for the
4:30
Speaker 2: All Blacks for so long, and part of it is
4:33
Speaker 2: to a degree, the erosion of debt right the bench.
4:36
Speaker 2: The all Blacks used to have was phenomenal and they
4:40
Speaker 2: were the ones that were fitter than everyone. They were
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Speaker 2: the ones that would come over top teams lates even
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Speaker 2: when they went at their best, and win matches that
4:48
Speaker 2: they didn't deserve to win. You know, you think about
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Speaker 2: Irelands in Dublin with that great Ryan Krawdi tro or
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Speaker 2: there was another example in Australia where they won late.
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Speaker 2: I think it was Muller Kaifakatoa scored. There's countless examples
5:03
Speaker 2: of this and now the script has been totally flipped
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Speaker 2: and there are extreme vulnerabilities there and it's a curse.
5:12
Speaker 2: It's an unsolvable issue for Scott Robinson. And he's an
5:16
Speaker 2: eternal optimist, isn't he. You asked him at the press, Corrence,
5:19
Speaker 2: you know you're an optimist, clearly you know you're locking
5:23
Speaker 2: the way the cup And he made the point about
5:26
Speaker 2: it's not bittersweet. He's certainly tried to put a positive
5:30
Speaker 2: spin on it. But behind closed doors they must be
5:33
Speaker 2: kicking themselves, scratching their heads, grasping for the panantole because.
5:39
Speaker 3: How do they fix this? Well, I don't really know,
5:43
Speaker 3: but it kind of I mean, yeah, I don't. I
5:46
Speaker 3: don't really know how they do sex that they've tried
5:48
Speaker 3: a few things and changing around the bench, changing the experience,
5:54
Speaker 3: what they're trying to get out of it.
5:55
Speaker 2: I don't know.
5:56
Speaker 3: Necessarily they've got the bench selections exactly right. Some terms
6:00
Speaker 3: of getting impact in the last the back half of
6:04
Speaker 3: a game, I think you're replacing some X factor players
6:11
Speaker 3: in some cases with players that are learning still the
6:15
Speaker 3: test craft of rugby. And to expect a bench performance
6:20
Speaker 3: or a dynamic bench performance out of these players to
6:22
Speaker 3: close out the game when they're still losing learning bits
6:26
Speaker 3: about test rugby, I think, is.
6:30
Speaker 2: You know, questionable, you know.
6:31
Speaker 3: But then you've got someone like an Antlonine that Brown,
6:33
Speaker 3: he's on the bench, who's played more than seventy tests
6:35
Speaker 3: for his country, and apart from the yellow card, I
6:39
Speaker 3: thought it had a good impact on the game on
6:41
Speaker 3: the weekend. So it requires leadership on the park. It requires,
6:48
Speaker 3: you know, some senior heads just taking charge of the
6:51
Speaker 3: game and taking it by the throat, and they just
6:54
Speaker 3: really haven't been able to do so as yet. And
6:57
Speaker 3: I think we've got to get to the rest of
6:59
Speaker 3: the game shortly. But I guess that there is a
7:01
Speaker 3: primal question about Damien McKenzie at tin and whether he
7:04
Speaker 3: is the answer for this All Blacks team so far
7:08
Speaker 3: started all eight tests at this point in the campaign,
7:12
Speaker 3: and there were times on the weekend there was the
7:15
Speaker 3: flick pass that didn't really need to be thrown. It
7:17
Speaker 3: could have either taken the contact recycled it and the
7:20
Speaker 3: All Blacks would have been odds on the score or
7:23
Speaker 3: drawing pass and they probably would have gone and then
7:26
Speaker 3: make it thirty six, fourteen ten gone second spell and
7:30
Speaker 3: they're not being caught from there. So I guess there
7:33
Speaker 3: are still some questions around Damien McKenzie. What do you
7:35
Speaker 3: think the All Blacks do there? Then I'd circle back
7:38
Speaker 3: for a minute.
7:39
Speaker 2: I think you're right, and part of the broader issue
7:41
Speaker 2: here is the same theme around the All Blacks lack
7:45
Speaker 2: of finishing. They should never have been in that position
7:47
Speaker 2: at the weekend. They led twenty one nil, they led
7:50
Speaker 2: twenty eight to seven and twenty eight to fourteen at halftime.
7:55
Speaker 2: They had ample opportunity to not only kill off the Wallabies,
8:00
Speaker 2: but rarely blow them out. You mentioned the Damien McKenzie flickball.
8:03
Speaker 2: There was a eighty meter breakout tryer that wasn't for
8:06
Speaker 2: Cortez at Atima. There were a couple of other examples.
8:09
Speaker 2: Artie Severe was held up over the line and this
8:13
Speaker 2: is a common theme around. How many times have we
8:16
Speaker 2: heard Scott Robinson say this year postmatch, we're creating so
8:20
Speaker 2: many chances, we just need to finish them. Well, why
8:23
Speaker 2: is that not happening? So the All Blacks should not
8:25
Speaker 2: have been in that position, and that's when they start
8:28
Speaker 2: to lose their heads. When the pressure comes on, they
8:31
Speaker 2: start to panic. You see the yellow cards. They are
8:35
Speaker 2: under pressure, they're having to defend their own line. So
8:38
Speaker 2: that's the wider picture of why they're in these positions,
8:42
Speaker 2: why they're struggling to score points. Well, Damien McKenzie, I
8:47
Speaker 2: think it is a big question. And before we get
8:52
Speaker 2: on too, I guess the options and his game. I
8:55
Speaker 2: want to ask you do you think there's an element
8:58
Speaker 2: of Scott Robinson. He's backed him, he's showed a lot
9:01
Speaker 2: of faith on the park, but how many times this
9:04
Speaker 2: year has he volunteered or talked about Himwanga? Because in
9:11
Speaker 2: Sydney as Press Corrency, a team naming Press Correnc, he
9:15
Speaker 2: talked about the fact that he went surfing with Joey
9:19
Speaker 2: John's and how Joey John's are some wins. Richie coming
9:21
Speaker 2: back and then that's a natural headline because it's extremely topical.
9:26
Speaker 2: Everyone is has talked about when is Richie coming back?
9:30
Speaker 2: Likely be next year, So maybe that's unsettingly to McKenzie.
9:34
Speaker 2: So I'm asking you, while Scott Robinson showed faith in
9:38
Speaker 2: McKenzie on the park back to him and all eight tests,
9:41
Speaker 2: how undermining is it that in publicly he's talking about
9:44
Speaker 2: Richie Warner.
9:47
Speaker 3: It is to an extent, but I guess he's backed him.
9:50
Speaker 3: But that test jersey is only yours when your name
9:54
Speaker 3: for each week. And I don't think Damien's under any
9:58
Speaker 3: illusions that Richie Wongan is probably coming back to New Zealand.
10:00
Speaker 3: He was linked erroneously from our understanding a few weeks
10:05
Speaker 3: ago with a move to France. But I don't think
10:08
Speaker 3: A's under any illusions that the likelihood is that Richiem
10:11
Speaker 3: wong is coming back to New Zealand at some point,
10:13
Speaker 3: and he'll have a real fight to have that ten
10:16
Speaker 3: jersey on his hands come twenty twenty five, assuming m
10:20
Speaker 3: Longer is eligible at that point. So look, I'm sure
10:25
Speaker 3: for Damien it's you know, he hasn't had a test
10:30
Speaker 3: this year. We'd go, yep, that's that Steel Black's ten.
10:35
Speaker 3: There's gonna be a real competition on his hands if
10:36
Speaker 3: Richie Moore comes home. I think that's more the issue.
10:39
Speaker 3: Not sure Rotson saying the media, but Damien McKenzie has
10:42
Speaker 3: had ample opportunities now to own a Test match and go, well,
10:46
Speaker 3: maybe she comes back. Richie's on the bench option and
10:50
Speaker 3: we haven't seen that yet. We're talking about Damien McKenzie's
10:52
Speaker 3: era making the game management last twenty thirty minutes. So
10:56
Speaker 3: for Damien McKenzie, I think it's a matter of concentrating
10:59
Speaker 3: on what he can do on the park rather than
11:01
Speaker 3: worrying what his coach says in the media.
11:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair to a point. But I
11:07
Speaker 2: think if Scott Robinson's not mentioning Anymonger, maybe it's a
11:12
Speaker 2: bit easier for him. The other The other issue here
11:18
Speaker 2: for me, we don't know the messages behind the scenes
11:20
Speaker 2: in terms of communication, but is there a bit of
11:23
Speaker 2: a clash of styles here because McKenzie, his career is,
11:29
Speaker 2: particularly as a ten, is about balancing his natural instincts
11:32
Speaker 2: with game management. That comes with kicking and getting teams
11:36
Speaker 2: and the right you know, driving them around the park,
11:39
Speaker 2: taking the right options at the right time, particularly in
11:41
Speaker 2: the back end of matches. And that's not only on him,
11:44
Speaker 2: that's on your full back and your half back and
11:46
Speaker 2: your full pack and the rest of it. But McKenzie's
11:49
Speaker 2: natural instinct is to run, run, and gun, to have
11:54
Speaker 2: those flipballs that we saw go wrong and Razor talked about,
11:58
Speaker 2: you know, those are his natural gifts and he's got
12:00
Speaker 2: to you know, play with instinct. And that's true. But
12:06
Speaker 2: if you think about the Crusaders team and the way
12:08
Speaker 2: Muhonga played, Yes, there was that flare at certain moments
12:13
Speaker 2: when they really needed him, but he was that game driver, yeah, quarterback,
12:17
Speaker 2: and he put them in areas where their set piece
12:20
Speaker 2: could dominate, where they could get the rolling wall going.
12:23
Speaker 2: And McKenzie's probably not doing that at the right moments.
12:28
Speaker 2: And so as a wee bit of a clash of
12:30
Speaker 2: styles between McKenzie's natural instincts and what the oblocks and
12:34
Speaker 2: test rugby actually requires.
12:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love I spoke to Damien in Cape
12:38
Speaker 3: Town around that and he volunteered that game management is
12:43
Speaker 3: his biggest work on and I think it's evident for
12:46
Speaker 3: ever to see on the part that he's still trying
12:49
Speaker 3: to get that right when it comes to test level.
12:51
Speaker 3: Very different from Super Rugby managing a game and Super
12:55
Speaker 3: Rugby you kick on to an early lead very rare
12:59
Speaker 3: as a team come back. That's just the nature of
13:02
Speaker 3: Super Rugby. You can blow out to a twenty eight
13:05
Speaker 3: to seven lead. I'd say there would be very few
13:07
Speaker 3: occasions where teams come back from that. In Super rugue
13:09
Speaker 3: be its very much just doesn't happen. Whereas Test rugby,
13:13
Speaker 3: things can change on a dime, Various elements of a
13:17
Speaker 3: game can change and.
13:18
Speaker 2: Players can get back into it.
13:19
Speaker 3: So I think that's a big lesson for Damien at
13:22
Speaker 3: this point in time and still growing. You know, he's
13:25
Speaker 3: played what fifty tests for his country, but and people say, well,
13:29
Speaker 3: you should be a game manager by now, but he
13:31
Speaker 3: really hasn't had this run at ten in his career
13:34
Speaker 3: to this point. He's had eight straight tests at ten.
13:38
Speaker 3: He certainly hasn't had as this many in a row
13:41
Speaker 3: as a player at ten. So that's still coming to him,
13:46
Speaker 3: but it needs to come quickly. And I guess we
13:49
Speaker 3: have this question this week and we'll get into some changes,
13:52
Speaker 3: perhaps later on the podcast. But do the All Blacks
13:55
Speaker 3: make a change this week? They've seen Damien McKenzie for
13:57
Speaker 3: eight straight tests. Is it likely that maybe with the
14:00
Speaker 3: Bleederslow cup wrapped up now, they look at someone different
14:03
Speaker 3: for this weekend?
14:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it probably he needed to happen
14:09
Speaker 2: before now. I think the other issue though, is Boden
14:13
Speaker 2: Barratts as the next guy, and he actually hasn't played
14:17
Speaker 2: ten for the All Blacks for a couple of years,
14:21
Speaker 2: so there are options there, but are they are compelling?
14:27
Speaker 2: Not sure, but we need to find out. I think
14:31
Speaker 2: Harry Plummer is another guy. Stephen Petifetter is injured. His
14:36
Speaker 2: calf came at a really an opportune time. I'm a
14:39
Speaker 2: big fan of Stephen Petefetter, but the depth of ten
14:42
Speaker 2: in his Zellan rugby is not great and so that's
14:45
Speaker 2: why I think Scott Robson has backed him mackenzie and
14:48
Speaker 2: given him the reins and trusted him. But I think
14:52
Speaker 2: now is the time, like you say, with the Bleslow
14:54
Speaker 2: locked away, to give Boden a crack. He was sick
14:59
Speaker 2: last week, went down late in the week late withdrawal,
15:02
Speaker 2: but by all accounts is bouncing back. We're talking a
15:07
Speaker 2: lot about the All Blacks. What about the Wallabies? Did
15:10
Speaker 2: the All Blacks make the Wallabies look good? And what
15:12
Speaker 2: are your expectations for the Wallabies this week?
15:16
Speaker 3: Yes, I think All Blacks to make the Wallabies look good.
15:19
Speaker 3: It was a lot of All Blacks eras compounding eras
15:23
Speaker 3: that allowed the Wallabies back into the game. And ruthless
15:27
Speaker 3: All Black side would have pumped this Wallabies team by fifty,
15:30
Speaker 3: maybe even sixty points, that's what they were on the
15:32
Speaker 3: track for. So the All Blacks shouldn't have allowed the
15:35
Speaker 3: Wallabies back into the game. And it felt like every
15:38
Speaker 3: time after a certain point, after maybe even a half
15:41
Speaker 3: hour mark, once they got into the wallabyes twenty two,
15:43
Speaker 3: they'd be an era. They give the ball up, the
15:46
Speaker 3: conceded penalty, whatever it might be, and that allowed the
15:49
Speaker 3: Wallabies back in it. I thought there was some pretty
15:52
Speaker 3: soft defense at times from the All Blacks, especially the
15:56
Speaker 3: two Wallabies tries in the first spell when they scored
16:00
Speaker 3: from a fastler I think was scored from the line
16:03
Speaker 3: lineup more and Cain missed the tackle on him. There
16:07
Speaker 3: the one where the up the All Blacks in the
16:09
Speaker 3: middle of the park and the first spell as well
16:10
Speaker 3: through mckwright that was poor All Black's defense or a
16:15
Speaker 3: defensive read. They're gone wrong and then they opened the
16:18
Speaker 3: door and allowed the Wallabies to get back in the game.
16:20
Speaker 3: Now there were soon Wallaby's individuals that impressed me. I
16:23
Speaker 3: thought Frais mc rydan and Harry Wilson were very very good.
16:26
Speaker 3: Rob Valentin he wasn't too bad either. You know, Lennikow
16:30
Speaker 3: and hunter Bay summary a good midfield combination. But they
16:34
Speaker 3: were only in this game on the back of the
16:36
Speaker 3: All Blacks allowing them and they basically kept the door
16:38
Speaker 3: a jar the All Blacks and the Wallabies keep on
16:41
Speaker 3: sneaking through and the All Blacks.
16:43
Speaker 2: Did and jam it shut.
16:44
Speaker 3: So that might sound harsh on the Wallabies, but you know,
16:49
Speaker 3: there were twenty eight seven down, the twenty one Niel down.
16:51
Speaker 3: They were only backing it because of the All Blacks
16:54
Speaker 3: and competence at times.
16:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think the All Black should have
16:58
Speaker 2: put the foot on the throat, should have put the
16:59
Speaker 2: Wallabies away. Defensively, the All Blacks should not be conceding
17:03
Speaker 2: twenty eight points to the Wallaby's team. There needs to
17:06
Speaker 2: be yes, they scramble. We showed a lot of character
17:09
Speaker 2: when there were two men short in the closing stages.
17:12
Speaker 2: It was a couple of massive turnovers on their own line.
17:14
Speaker 2: I think it was Luke Jacobson and was it Wallace
17:19
Speaker 2: a t T. And there was the mall turnover that
17:23
Speaker 2: killed the game off at the death. But like you say,
17:25
Speaker 2: there's some glaring errors as well. So they should have
17:29
Speaker 2: put the Wallabies to the sword and they didn't and
17:32
Speaker 2: that will be where the clips come this week.
17:35
Speaker 3: And even hearing from Joe Schmitt post game, he didn't
17:37
Speaker 3: really feel like they just got close to the All Blacks.
17:40
Speaker 3: It felt like, well the All Blacks missed a couple
17:43
Speaker 3: of opportunities and we were sick and best. And I
17:47
Speaker 3: think there's a sense from Joe Schmitt that he'll be
17:49
Speaker 3: concentrating more on the opening thirty minutes and what went
17:51
Speaker 3: wrong there than the fact they got two with them
17:53
Speaker 3: three points at the end.
17:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a right. What about the let's talk about
17:58
Speaker 2: Joe Schmitt? He was asked should the bledder as though
18:01
Speaker 2: be three tests? We could now come to Wellington. It's
18:04
Speaker 2: sold out test here where it is interesting because earlier
18:08
Speaker 2: couple you know what was it last month when the
18:11
Speaker 2: Pumas were here beat the All Blacks it was half
18:13
Speaker 2: full stadium, So this has sold out test, but the
18:15
Speaker 2: Blizzlow's not on the line. I don't believe there's no
18:18
Speaker 2: dead rubber friendly tests. I don't buy into that at all.
18:22
Speaker 2: But it would be more engrossing contests if the Blaerzlow
18:27
Speaker 2: was still up for grabs. So all of these could
18:28
Speaker 2: potentially bounce back, but it has been a bit one
18:32
Speaker 2: sided in recent years. The Blazlow contest is probably not
18:34
Speaker 2: a great deal of interest from New Zealand Rugby to
18:36
Speaker 2: extend it out beyond two tests. What's your read on that? Jochma,
18:40
Speaker 2: interestingly enough, said I was quite happy with how it
18:43
Speaker 2: wasn't last year when I was in the All Blacks,
18:46
Speaker 2: and now I'd like it to be having you jump
18:49
Speaker 2: the fence. Now, I'd like it to be three tests.
18:51
Speaker 3: Well, no, I don't agree with judgment because the fact
18:56
Speaker 3: of the matter is, but and this is one match,
18:58
Speaker 3: You've still got to win two matches to win the Blittesloader.
19:00
Speaker 3: Whether it's two or three, you're still going to win
19:02
Speaker 3: two matches to win the Blutaslow. That's a simple task
19:04
Speaker 3: for Australia, so effectively, you win the series two nil
19:08
Speaker 3: or two one, you've still got the blood is thow
19:10
Speaker 3: there for Australia. So no, I don't necessarily get that
19:14
Speaker 3: argument if it's a one off test and that makes
19:16
Speaker 3: it different. It's up for grabs every time these two
19:18
Speaker 3: sides play. But no, I think the task is still
19:21
Speaker 3: there for the Wallabyes. You either've got to win, yeah,
19:23
Speaker 3: series two one, whatever it might be if it's three
19:26
Speaker 3: tests series. So just you know, the thing with the
19:30
Speaker 3: wallaby is that I just don't ever see them returning
19:32
Speaker 3: to the top of a rugby.
19:34
Speaker 2: And now tenth in the world. Yeah as ee a
19:36
Speaker 2: sorry Fiji when I hit of them at the weekend.
19:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this might sound harshenf coming off a backup
19:40
Speaker 3: a three point loss to the All Blacks, but I
19:43
Speaker 3: just don't see them ever returning to those pretty special
19:47
Speaker 3: heights of the nineteen nineties early two thousands. There is
19:52
Speaker 3: nothing in the Australian rugby at the moment that suggests
19:55
Speaker 3: that they're genuinely capable of doing so I don't see
19:58
Speaker 3: it coming.
20:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:00
Speaker 3: The Bledders, I say, for another year and All Blacks
20:02
Speaker 3: poor performance was still good enough to win by three.
20:06
Speaker 2: Yeah they have. I saw us stat at the weekends
20:09
Speaker 2: that rugby in Australia is the night most participated sport. Yeah,
20:15
Speaker 2: counts you. That really hit me between the eyes.
20:18
Speaker 3: Yeah. It has fallen off the thing with Australia. And
20:22
Speaker 3: you know this is very Richard in Yonder to say
20:24
Speaker 3: coming from the outside looking at but they love winners
20:26
Speaker 3: and Australia and rugby needs to win to get some
20:30
Speaker 3: supporters back again and kids back playing rugby.
20:34
Speaker 2: They it's kind of like.
20:35
Speaker 3: You know what comes first, Well, all the business that
20:39
Speaker 3: are just spend money to make money, you've kind of
20:41
Speaker 3: actually got to get that success a little bit before
20:43
Speaker 3: you and show the world what you can do before
20:46
Speaker 3: people come on board and jump on board. And I
20:48
Speaker 3: think that's going to be the really tough task for
20:50
Speaker 3: rugby Australia managing to do that because it's just not
20:54
Speaker 3: in a place where they're doing so.
20:55
Speaker 2: It reached some really big heights.
20:56
Speaker 3: You know, the host of the three World cover course
20:58
Speaker 3: had a really good Wallaby team in that era and
21:01
Speaker 3: it was a legitimately big sport in it it's fallen off,
21:04
Speaker 3: so I rugby doesn't have great viewership there on PACV
21:07
Speaker 3: or stands sport that once I would say though, is
21:11
Speaker 3: it polsing crowd still?
21:12
Speaker 2: Well? I was about made that point that it was
21:15
Speaker 2: a massive advertisement for daytime rugby, wasn't it three forty
21:19
Speaker 2: five pm kickoff local time in Sydney? Sixty eight thousand?
21:23
Speaker 2: Great turnout for a weekend in which you had the
21:26
Speaker 2: AFL Finals. You insert the Sharks and Cowboys on the
21:33
Speaker 2: Friday night and then the Roosters played the played Manly
21:37
Speaker 2: on the Saturday straight after the All Black So massive weekend,
21:40
Speaker 2: sporting weekend of Sydney and they've still got sixty eight
21:42
Speaker 2: thousand to a course stadium, So great turn out there.
21:46
Speaker 2: And look, I do expect Joshmitt to make the Wallabies
21:50
Speaker 2: competitive and they do have a platform to relaunch the
21:53
Speaker 2: sport back into the you know, to gain more profile
21:57
Speaker 2: with the Lions coming with a home World Cup. So
22:01
Speaker 2: it's not all doom and gloom, but there are massive
22:04
Speaker 2: challenges from a financial perspective. I have touched on a
22:09
Speaker 2: number of different talking points, a lot of them negative.
22:11
Speaker 2: I just do want to touch on a couple of
22:16
Speaker 2: great performances, individual performances. Wallace a TC He's been a
22:20
Speaker 2: revelation at Blood so I thinker. But for me, Cortez
22:24
Speaker 2: Latima was by far and away the best All Black
22:27
Speaker 2: on the park at the weekend, not just what he
22:29
Speaker 2: did with his speed to the base. I thought his
22:32
Speaker 2: kicking has really improved. He has sniping run, set up
22:37
Speaker 2: Rikowane for his first try since the World Cup last year,
22:41
Speaker 2: and his defense he absolutely clobbed Marika Corobetti the stinging
22:48
Speaker 2: shoulder after that and Corobtty is a ball of muscle,
22:52
Speaker 2: so he loves getting stuck into the physical side of
22:54
Speaker 2: the game. And the future halfback finis On is really bright.
22:58
Speaker 2: Cam Rouygad returns to the All Blacks training this week.
23:01
Speaker 2: He will return has comeback first match since pre season
23:06
Speaker 2: for County's Monaco. I think this week, next week, next
23:09
Speaker 2: weekends and Noah Hopham is another real prospect. So there
23:14
Speaker 2: are a lot of issues for the All Blacks to address,
23:16
Speaker 2: but I think halfback is not one. No, it's certainly not.
23:21
Speaker 3: And Ratima has been superb and was again on the weekend.
23:26
Speaker 3: Really enjoying his style and what he brings to the game.
23:29
Speaker 3: And he's tough, he's hard, but he's got great vision,
23:32
Speaker 3: great stiping, runs around the base of the ruck and
23:35
Speaker 3: completely agreas those three half backs are going to be.
23:39
Speaker 3: It's gonna be a really exciting challenge to see how
23:41
Speaker 3: they will joss off a position over the next two
23:44
Speaker 3: or three years and building to.
23:47
Speaker 2: Hopefully world class half backs.
23:48
Speaker 3: And what is the teasy you know again, a player
23:51
Speaker 3: that doesn't look daunted by test level at all. Mister
23:54
Speaker 3: Fy tackles in Cape Town but was still excellent on
23:57
Speaker 3: that night and I think grew again on Saturday afternoon
24:02
Speaker 3: in Sydney. So really exciting to see what he can
24:04
Speaker 3: do heading forward. Right, we'll take a break here on
24:07
Speaker 3: Rugby direc come back with these and half of the
24:09
Speaker 3: podcast Powered by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business
24:13
Speaker 3: to a higher level.
24:17
Speaker 2: Talent Badies talks Ever Try Try had sixty every tackle
24:24
Speaker 2: to tackle Get up again. It's Rugby Direct Talent Badies.
24:32
Speaker 3: You're back with Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions. Time
24:35
Speaker 3: to get into our final four and plenty to get
24:37
Speaker 3: stuck into here. We're going to change tech temporarily though.
24:42
Speaker 3: It's great to be on the ESPN Scrum Reset podcast
24:46
Speaker 3: ahead of bleders Low one. You might have heard it
24:48
Speaker 3: at our Feet as well, or watched it with the
24:50
Speaker 3: boys Simmy Bruceon and Christy Douran from Australia. Good to
24:55
Speaker 3: hit at Disney Studios in Sydney and chew the fat
24:58
Speaker 3: with those fellas. But one thing that did come out
25:01
Speaker 3: when we went for a post podcast settler was yes
25:08
Speaker 3: schooner were some of the Australian rugby journos had put
25:12
Speaker 3: together the trans tasment team of the professional era and
25:18
Speaker 3: there was some interesting selections that you know over a
25:21
Speaker 3: schooner caused plenty of debate, lim I know you've been
25:25
Speaker 3: leaked the team by a source. Do you mind reading
25:28
Speaker 3: through it for us if you possibly could?
25:30
Speaker 2: It would be my pleasure out of that because it
25:31
Speaker 2: will cause a lot of debate. And it's fair to
25:35
Speaker 2: say there was a good eight odd Ossie journos and
25:39
Speaker 2: they'd clearly put a lot of work into this, a
25:41
Speaker 2: lot of debate over a number of schooners. So without
25:45
Speaker 2: further ado, I start sure to start at fallback, because
25:49
Speaker 2: I regon started fall back. This is this is the
25:51
Speaker 2: most controversial, So sit down, make yourself comfy because they've
25:57
Speaker 2: gone Matt Burke at they went Ben Smith on the
26:02
Speaker 2: right wing. Although there was a bit of debates about
26:05
Speaker 2: whether Israel Filow should be there midfield. Mar highly controversial
26:11
Speaker 2: at center, basically never played there in his career. Tim
26:14
Speaker 2: Horem left wing, Joan Olmu Carter, Aaron Smith, Totai Kfu
26:19
Speaker 2: number eights, Richie mccare, George Smith at blindside, flanker, Sam
26:26
Speaker 2: Whitelocke and John Eels and the Locke in combination on
26:30
Speaker 2: Frank's Cody Taylor, Tony Woodcock and the reserves Dane Cole's
26:34
Speaker 2: Joe Moody, Taniella two po. I think like that one
26:39
Speaker 2: summer Brody Ritzel, like Artie Severe, George Gregen Bodenberger and
26:44
Speaker 2: Tana Well.
26:47
Speaker 3: You hear that team and it's really you know, if
26:50
Speaker 3: that's what's selected there, it's really no surprise the world's
26:53
Speaker 3: having won the bladers Low they've selected there, you know,
26:55
Speaker 3: if this is a symptomatic of their entire country. Look,
26:59
Speaker 3: Matt Burke at fullback is an interesting one. I sort
27:03
Speaker 3: of played a lot a little bit on Thursday night
27:08
Speaker 3: and suedest to that I always feared Matt Burke, which
27:10
Speaker 3: is true. But yeah, I just don't know quite some
27:14
Speaker 3: of those selections there. I maybe you can make the
27:16
Speaker 3: argument that Christian Callen was a bit of central wing.
27:18
Speaker 3: It's certainly multiple All Blacks coaches tried to do that.
27:21
Speaker 3: So yeah, I loved him at center though great in
27:23
Speaker 3: the twitter don't know nine World Cup that really helped
27:26
Speaker 3: out the All Blacks. So there he had well five
27:29
Speaker 3: tests into I think, And if you're on the right wing,
27:31
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that's where the Wallabies were going Assie selectors
27:34
Speaker 3: rather be going.
27:35
Speaker 2: You know, maybe you want to see more of it center. Yes,
27:38
Speaker 2: what's stood out for you? Look, I think you can't
27:41
Speaker 2: go past Nonavan Smith. Timboran was a great, genuine great, Yes,
27:46
Speaker 2: you can't go past Nonavos Smith. In my mind, the
27:50
Speaker 2: greatest midfield combination of all time Jerome Cano has to
27:54
Speaker 2: be at blind Side's. Yeah, Matt Burke, sorry, does not
27:58
Speaker 2: make it. So it's fair to say Taliaa Tupo would
28:01
Speaker 2: not be near my greatest all time Bleslo Can team either.
28:09
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's always good to have some healthy debates.
28:15
Speaker 3: I can see the is ruffle our argument to an extent,
28:17
Speaker 3: though he was very good on the right wing.
28:19
Speaker 2: Maybe phenomenal athlete, brilliant in the air. I think there's
28:22
Speaker 2: a strong case for him for sure.
28:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen back to that team if you want, and
28:28
Speaker 3: you can give us some feedback as well, or some
28:30
Speaker 3: of the AUSSI knows feedback next week on the podcast
28:32
Speaker 3: We'd love Yeah.
28:35
Speaker 2: Names and Numbers.
28:38
Speaker 3: Box Argentina a big surprise there to an extent Argentina
28:42
Speaker 3: twenty nine, the spring Box twenty eight. Now you can say, yeah,
28:46
Speaker 3: so Avery were missing a couple of their big names.
28:49
Speaker 3: You know, they made Libot coming off the bench, Paulood
28:51
Speaker 3: started at ten and Libock missed the penalty that would
28:54
Speaker 3: have won them the game. It's Abeth only came off
28:57
Speaker 3: the bench. Calisi wasn't there at all. So you can
29:00
Speaker 3: go about that, or you can look at the other side,
29:02
Speaker 3: which is what I'm going to do and go Argentina
29:04
Speaker 3: under Felippe Contopomi, who has only had them for a
29:07
Speaker 3: couple of months it's now really three months. Look like
29:11
Speaker 3: a team that is building very very nicely. First time
29:14
Speaker 3: they've beaten Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and the
29:18
Speaker 3: one Rugby Championship one calendar year. I think good on Argentina.
29:23
Speaker 3: It keeps the Rugby Championship alive for another week, and
29:26
Speaker 3: you know it's that sense of belief. You know, they've
29:28
Speaker 3: talked a bit on the podcast about them trying to
29:29
Speaker 3: back up performances. Well, they backed up a big performance
29:33
Speaker 3: into Australia a couple of weeks later at Medley with
29:35
Speaker 3: another one over argent out of South Africa. They ride
29:39
Speaker 3: that emotion really really high. Now it's a really tough
29:41
Speaker 3: test for Argentina but Hoosa, so they couldn't go and
29:45
Speaker 3: win the Republic this weekend on that emotion, on that feeling,
29:48
Speaker 3: Severians will get some players back. They're playing at home.
29:51
Speaker 3: But there's a lot to like about this Argentina team
29:53
Speaker 3: at the moment.
29:54
Speaker 2: There is, And like you said, they've had some big scalps,
29:57
Speaker 2: haven't they The All Blacks and w Wellings and nobody
29:59
Speaker 2: gave them a shot there. They surprise loss at home
30:03
Speaker 2: to the Wallabies at one point the last minute I
30:06
Speaker 2: think it was Ben Donaldson penalty, and then they absolutely
30:09
Speaker 2: pumped the Wallabies the following week. But this is this
30:12
Speaker 2: is a big result of massive scalp. For them to
30:14
Speaker 2: knock over the World champions doesn't matter where in the
30:16
Speaker 2: world that happens and what circumstances. So I think you're
30:21
Speaker 2: right that Felipe con Topoma has taken this team forward.
30:24
Speaker 2: He's given them a real belief structure, bringing through some
30:28
Speaker 2: talent I didn't see. I've only seen the highlights of
30:30
Speaker 2: the game because we were out at Sydney Airport at
30:33
Speaker 2: seven am and Scott Robinson was actually watching this game
30:36
Speaker 2: live on his foe before we spoke to him. So
30:39
Speaker 2: I have gone back and watched some of it, but
30:41
Speaker 2: not the entirety of it. But I think it's good
30:44
Speaker 2: for Southern Hemisphere world rugby to have the Pumas. You
30:49
Speaker 2: know that they are World Cup semi finalists, but they
30:52
Speaker 2: had a soft side of the draw last year and
30:54
Speaker 2: I think they have improved markedly since then.
30:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're on maybe about having it. Argentinian
30:59
Speaker 3: coach them as well. They've had Michael Cheker in recent times.
31:02
Speaker 3: Marially Desmitts got them some success for us one of
31:04
Speaker 3: the All Blacks, but I think he's He's a quite coach,
31:08
Speaker 3: has been seen in club level and now coming back
31:11
Speaker 3: to coaches national side. Very very impressive. I think that
31:14
Speaker 3: the takim to win the Rugby Championship is pretty difficult,
31:17
Speaker 3: but even if they went over to so Africa and
31:19
Speaker 3: won the test match in Suffaca win the Rugby Championship
31:22
Speaker 3: by point, it's still a very very big win for Argentina.
31:25
Speaker 3: If they'd beat in Australia in Argentina, it'd be all
31:29
Speaker 3: on this weekend.
31:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's great for the Rugby Championship to have
31:35
Speaker 2: the elements of genuine competitiveness because it wasn't that long
31:39
Speaker 2: ago the Pumas went through the Rugby Championship winless and
31:42
Speaker 2: that was pretty consistent. Now, not just from a Wallabies.
31:47
Speaker 2: You know, they don't just knock over the Wallabies. There's
31:50
Speaker 2: genuine interrepidation whenever they played the All Blacks.
31:52
Speaker 3: There is I wrote a column last week sort of
31:55
Speaker 3: saying the Rugby Championship as a competition doesn't really mess
32:00
Speaker 3: and I probably I still stand by that, but I
32:02
Speaker 3: think it is healthy for this competition to be having
32:04
Speaker 3: the kind of jeopardy, the kind of results that we've
32:07
Speaker 3: got at the moment, and Argentina wouldn't been against them.
32:13
Speaker 3: You're going over Savregan and shocking things up and sent
32:17
Speaker 3: in another result over there. Tomming Onmer three, what changes
32:21
Speaker 3: for the All Blacks for Wellington? Now we sort of
32:23
Speaker 3: mentioned around that the ten do you see Scott Robinson
32:27
Speaker 3: making that change at ten this week.
32:28
Speaker 2: Well, one point we haven't mentioned is Jordi Barrett's did
32:32
Speaker 2: a medial ligaments to his knee as we are speaking
32:36
Speaker 2: now on Monday. He was going for a scan today
32:39
Speaker 2: but he looked very sore and medial ligament these are
32:44
Speaker 2: typically four to six weeks. So I would not expect
32:47
Speaker 2: to see Jordi Barrett before the England Test at Twickenham,
32:51
Speaker 2: which from memory is late October, and that's a big
32:57
Speaker 2: blow for the All Blacks. Jordi Barrett is a very
33:01
Speaker 2: unique player and what he brings to that twelve jersey,
33:03
Speaker 2: so you'd expect Antelina Brown to come in for him.
33:07
Speaker 2: Elsewhere we touched on, I think Boden Barrett possibly gets
33:10
Speaker 2: a chance. Ethan Blackheader is due to return from his
33:17
Speaker 2: hamstring injury, and yeah, I think elsewhere maybe you'll see
33:24
Speaker 2: Mark Tala. I don't think we'll see Noah Hotham just yet.
33:29
Speaker 2: I think they'll keep him back for Japan. TJ. Pennarre's
33:33
Speaker 2: last test at home at Wellington. I think they'll want
33:36
Speaker 2: to give him a run off the bench. I think
33:39
Speaker 2: they'll want to keep Will Jordan at fullback. That was
33:43
Speaker 2: unplanned but he took his chance there and in the pack,
33:48
Speaker 2: I think Sam Kane probably starts for his one hundred tests.
33:53
Speaker 2: Not sure about the front row Ethan the group was
33:55
Speaker 2: short of a gallop. For me, I expect to build
33:57
Speaker 2: black scrum to dominate the Wallabies. That didn't happen and
34:00
Speaker 2: some weird rulings there, but that they didn't dominate them
34:05
Speaker 2: in the capacity I expected. What about you? Where do
34:07
Speaker 2: you see changes? Look?
34:08
Speaker 3: I think they will maybe look at elsewhere at ten
34:11
Speaker 3: this week. I think the opportunity is there. Having said that,
34:14
Speaker 3: they'll probably do it again in Japan, so maybe two
34:18
Speaker 3: tests in a row without your first choice ten and
34:21
Speaker 3: David McKenzie.
34:23
Speaker 2: Maybe they don't do that.
34:24
Speaker 3: So I think there's going to be a little bit
34:26
Speaker 3: of thinking about what they're doing Japan, albeit that's still
34:28
Speaker 3: a month away. Just around how they playing things out.
34:31
Speaker 3: I'd love to see Billy prop to get another crack
34:35
Speaker 3: this week. Yeah, and I mean Caleb Clark has has
34:38
Speaker 3: just come back in and taken his chance. But do
34:40
Speaker 3: they look at Rico Yowani on the left wing again,
34:43
Speaker 3: He's adamant, he's a center Rico, but maybe you can
34:48
Speaker 3: sort of be Rico has been going back to the
34:50
Speaker 3: wing and the end of the games. Maybe you can
34:51
Speaker 3: change that out willst Tisi. I think keep them in there,
34:56
Speaker 3: keep going, keep going, keep playing him and that may
35:01
Speaker 3: facilitate a change.
35:02
Speaker 2: Maybe.
35:02
Speaker 3: Also maybe you move ball TDI back to number eight
35:05
Speaker 3: this weekend and Ardie Savia comes off the bench.
35:07
Speaker 2: It's going to happen at some point. I just I
35:09
Speaker 2: think Scott Robinson's quite a not nostalgic but sentimental. I'd
35:16
Speaker 2: be very surprised if Sam Kane doesn't start as hun
35:18
Speaker 2: just here. Whether it happens this week or not, not
35:20
Speaker 2: too sure, but I think he will start his hundred.
35:23
Speaker 3: Well you could move west to t D back to
35:24
Speaker 3: number eight. You could have Sam Kner open so flanker
35:27
Speaker 3: and eating black head at blindside.
35:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the all black small start Areadie pretty
35:32
Speaker 2: hard to go away from that. But look, I want
35:35
Speaker 2: to see what at eight. It has to happen at
35:37
Speaker 2: some point soon. Well, I want to see it last
35:40
Speaker 2: week when we said the week before, I'm not Razor
35:46
Speaker 2: Harry Flummer.
35:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have another look at him this week your
35:48
Speaker 3: four minutes unexpectedly off the bench and congratulations to him
35:52
Speaker 3: on becoming all black number one thy two hundred and
35:54
Speaker 3: twenty one. It was unexpected with blowing Barrett's illness, but
35:57
Speaker 3: do they give him another crack off the bench this week?
36:00
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, a great story for a guy
36:02
Speaker 2: that has really toiled away behind the scenes and was
36:05
Speaker 2: very unheralded even right up until the point end of
36:10
Speaker 2: this year. If he lose guided them to a Super
36:12
Speaker 2: Rugby title after you know all the trials and tribulations.
36:16
Speaker 2: He's had a number of injury setbacks. He early in
36:19
Speaker 2: his career missed a couple of kicks that he was
36:22
Speaker 2: vilified for on social media, so he's had to deal
36:25
Speaker 2: with a lot of shit. And I know this was
36:27
Speaker 2: very popular debut within the All Blacks, not just with
36:30
Speaker 2: the Blues players. With Jordi Barrett out, I think he
36:33
Speaker 2: probably does stand the mixt day. David de Hevelli is
36:36
Speaker 2: another guy that hasn't seen any game time, so probably
36:39
Speaker 2: going head to head there, but the fact they put
36:42
Speaker 2: Plumber in last week suggests that he's Yeah. It does
36:46
Speaker 2: so it's going to be a very interesting team.
36:48
Speaker 3: And it'snamed Thursday Morning around what changes the All Blacks
36:52
Speaker 3: make final topic in the final four. As we touched
36:54
Speaker 3: on their sm Kaines one hundredth for coming up this week.
36:58
Speaker 3: I spoke to him last week ahead of his ninety
37:01
Speaker 3: nine if you can hear that into you on the
37:02
Speaker 3: news talks HEDI website if you so desire. But s look,
37:07
Speaker 3: he hasn't got much more time left in the All
37:08
Speaker 3: Blacks Juessey. It was Scott Robertson who said on Thursday
37:12
Speaker 3: and he named the team that they are where it's
37:14
Speaker 3: Scott Sam Caine swansong and how long does the song last?
37:18
Speaker 1: For?
37:19
Speaker 3: When did they stop singing? But he's been in a
37:22
Speaker 3: very very good form this season. I only missed that
37:24
Speaker 3: tackle on the weekend, you know, but everyone misses tackles.
37:28
Speaker 3: But he's made it a conversation this year and it
37:33
Speaker 3: didn't appear like it would be earlier on this season.
37:36
Speaker 3: It felt like bench rugby and maybe some starts against
37:39
Speaker 3: the Lesa Lights might be his lot. But he's closing
37:42
Speaker 3: out his tenure as a Test rugby footballer in some
37:46
Speaker 3: pretty good form. And I think you look back at
37:50
Speaker 3: his career, he was in the shadow of Richie McCaw
37:53
Speaker 3: for so long that Burt in twenty twelve was pretty
37:56
Speaker 3: much a bench specialist for three or four seasons behind.
38:01
Speaker 3: McCaw got a captaincy not at the World Cup in
38:04
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen against Namibia, if I recall rightly, and then
38:07
Speaker 3: has grown and grown since then, but he's always lived
38:11
Speaker 3: in the shadow of Richie Mccooh. It's a really tough
38:14
Speaker 3: position to be in for not only applied coming into issues,
38:18
Speaker 3: but then you're also elevated to the All Blacks captaincy
38:21
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty.
38:24
Speaker 2: He's not retiring just yet. But how will you look
38:26
Speaker 2: back at Sam Kaine's career. M Yeah, just before I
38:29
Speaker 2: get to that, I think what Sam Kane has done
38:32
Speaker 2: is he's really surprised Razor because I think Raiser's perception
38:36
Speaker 2: from the outside was that maybe he shouldn't have been
38:40
Speaker 2: captain of the All Blacks. And I know for a
38:43
Speaker 2: fact that Rais has been blown away by his presence
38:46
Speaker 2: in the All Blacks, particularly around his leadership off the field,
38:51
Speaker 2: helping Scott Barrett's, his respect within the playing group, the
38:56
Speaker 2: MANI he carries, and so I think that's been a
39:00
Speaker 2: big shift for Razor to see that in person. His career,
39:06
Speaker 2: he has survived a lot of adversity. He broke his
39:10
Speaker 2: neck in South Africa and it wasn't just his career uncertainty,
39:18
Speaker 2: but you know there was real fears for whether he
39:20
Speaker 2: would walk again. And at the time Russia Rasmus talked
39:23
Speaker 2: about how he went and visited him at the hospital room.
39:27
Speaker 2: So he came back from that. He's extremely dogged. He
39:31
Speaker 2: has been one of the biggest hatting defenders in New
39:36
Speaker 2: Zealand rugby. He lived and breathed the adversity of the
39:40
Speaker 2: m Foster era, fronted through some of the worst times
39:45
Speaker 2: in the professional era, some horror records and stood firm
39:49
Speaker 2: and then that you know, the red card and the
39:50
Speaker 2: World Cup final, and then comes back again this year.
39:53
Speaker 2: So look, the character of the bloke, you cannot questions.
39:58
Speaker 2: If there's anyone deserving to get to one hundred caps,
40:00
Speaker 2: it is him. I as it stands right now, I
40:07
Speaker 2: would have moved on from him last week. I think
40:11
Speaker 2: you can justify the style of rugby that he plays,
40:15
Speaker 2: coming in and starting against the spring Box. But I
40:18
Speaker 2: think there's real questions now and particularly the style of
40:21
Speaker 2: the Wallabies play, about moving on and getting to the future. Yes,
40:26
Speaker 2: Sam Kame will get to one hundred caps, but what
40:29
Speaker 2: is the future of the seven Jersy here. You know,
40:31
Speaker 2: where's Dalton Papa Lei gone? Why isn't Peter Luckeye in
40:36
Speaker 2: the squads? You know? Maybe that will come, But the
40:40
Speaker 2: wider issue for me about what is the future of
40:42
Speaker 2: the Seven Jews is almost more pressing than Sam can
40:46
Speaker 2: getting too A hundred one hundred percent deserves that. But
40:49
Speaker 2: from an interest perspective, I'm really fascinated about where the
40:53
Speaker 2: Seven Jewsy goes because you talk about their legacy with mccare,
40:56
Speaker 2: that's always going to be there. But who is the
40:59
Speaker 2: next guy?
40:59
Speaker 3: Well, as far as I understand, Sam Kame is still
41:02
Speaker 3: there until the end of the year. Yeah, so that's
41:06
Speaker 3: the problem for twenty thirty five, finding out who the
41:09
Speaker 3: next open sider is?
41:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. But what's happening from a grooming perspective,
41:15
Speaker 2: you and I right now, I can't say who is
41:17
Speaker 2: the ext guy? But does that matter? Because look at look, look,
41:20
Speaker 2: look you need to be planning for the future.
41:22
Speaker 3: But last year in the All Blacks courtez Ratima not there,
41:25
Speaker 3: while it's a teating not there. They're until the All
41:27
Speaker 3: Blacks best this year? So why not live in the
41:30
Speaker 3: moment and go Sam Kaine is the best open side
41:33
Speaker 3: flanker for the All Blacks. At this point in time,
41:35
Speaker 3: we're going to seleck them in the seven jowsey. We'll
41:38
Speaker 3: worry about that in twenty and twenty five. It's shown
41:40
Speaker 3: that doesn't take long for certain players to get up
41:42
Speaker 3: to speed and teas Rugi have Don and Papale's not
41:44
Speaker 3: the best open side flanker at the moment behind Sam Kine,
41:48
Speaker 3: then why give them the jersey?
41:49
Speaker 2: Now? Was a nod to the future. You can live
41:52
Speaker 2: in the moment and plan for the future. I would
41:54
Speaker 2: argue right now, Razor does not know who his next
41:57
Speaker 2: open siders, and that's why Peter Luckey has to go
42:00
Speaker 2: on the India Tour because if Sam Kain is a
42:04
Speaker 2: guy right now, fine playing, but start grooming the next
42:07
Speaker 2: guy and that's not happening.
42:09
Speaker 3: But yeah, I take your point, But then grooming is
42:13
Speaker 3: only good to an a certain extent because you've got
42:15
Speaker 3: to play what's in front of you at a certain time,
42:17
Speaker 3: and you can you know, Filly Christie was the All
42:20
Speaker 3: Black second choice half beat last year. Now he's probably
42:22
Speaker 3: down to fourth fifth in the in the rankings. Different
42:25
Speaker 3: coaches at midley. But I think you've got to play
42:28
Speaker 3: for the test match that's in front of you, not
42:30
Speaker 3: the one that's been played in twelve months time.
42:33
Speaker 2: That's fair. But I'll give you an example. How much
42:35
Speaker 2: is Courses Latima benefiting from TJ pet Andarra's presence and
42:40
Speaker 2: the All Blacks. So handing over that experience and that
42:43
Speaker 2: that grooming process, particularly for a twenty one year old
42:47
Speaker 2: kid like Lakey, is so important. So yep, have to
42:52
Speaker 2: win in the now, but groom for the future.
42:55
Speaker 3: There we go on that notes, we will wrap up
42:58
Speaker 3: Rugby Directs. Good to be in the Capitol. We'll be
43:01
Speaker 3: back again next week to wrap up the first or
43:04
Speaker 3: the first Rugby Championship under Scott Robinson and look aheads
43:08
Speaker 3: to the end of year tour as well. All the
43:10
Speaker 3: coverage on India here dot co dot India this week
43:13
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43:28
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