Latest / New Teacher Talk / Ep 193: Seen, Heard, and Included: A Roundtable on Belonging in Schools

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Ep 193: Seen, Heard, and Included: A Roundtable on Belonging in Schools · New Teacher Talk

Welcome and thank you for being with us today on New
Teacher Talk.
I'm Dr.
Beth here with Dr.
Anna.
This is a very special episode for us and we think you're
going to love it too.
What you were about to hear came out of something truly
wonderful,
the sixth annual Building Inclusive Community Conference
where a remarkable group of educators gathered to do what
the best educators always do.
Think deeply, speak honestly, and learn from one another.
We were so grateful that five of those educators agreed to
sit down with us and share their voices.
Kirsten Manthei, Jennifer Cooper, Bernadette Garcia,
Aisha Jones and Shawn Kennedy.
Together they represent a rich tapestry of experience
spanning multiple school districts,
grade levels from elementary through secondary and roles
ranging from classroom teachers to a coach,
a career changer and even a school board member.
Each of them brought something unique and irreplaceable to
the conversation.
We used a round table protocol that we love for the way it
honors every voice in the room.
Our guests each chose the questions they felt most moved to
respond to, a warmup, a core question,
a perspective shifting question and a future focused
question.
It's a beautiful structure and we've included the full
protocol as a link in the show notes.
We hope you'll consider using it yourself in your
classroom,
your school or your district to spark the kinds of
conversations that matter.
As you listen we invite you to sit with the questions
yourself.
How might you respond?
What would the educators in your own life say?
Pay special attention to what these experienced passionate
educators have to say to new teachers about building truly
inclusive spaces.
Now let's pull up a chair and join the conversation.
What does being heard mean to you in one sentence?
I'm Jennifer and I'm a job coach and being heard to me
means that when I'm working with the students that if I'm
having an issue or what I'm being successful at that I have
people around me that can respond to them that I can work
with my community at school that's what being heard means.
I'm Bernadette,
I am a fourth grade teacher in special education.
Being heard to me means being seen,
being validated for being present in that moment.
And I'm a Leo, right?
That I'm a very quiet and introverted Theo.
So being heard doesn't always mean I have to say a word,
but you can kind of know what my intent is,
being seen even in silence.
I'm Aisha Jones.
I am a second grade teacher.
This is my fourth year.
I would say being heard just means to me like being
collaborative, celebrating all of our wins at the team,
but also celebrating some of our losses as well because
we've learned through those losses and we don't need to
pick those losses.
So celebrating each and every one of us as a whole piece of
meaning.
Hi, my name is Kirsten Manthei,
and I'm a teacher and parent at Lyon's Township.
And for me, being heard really has to do with perspective.
And I feel that when we are truly listening and, you know,
valuing everyone's perspective,
even if it's different from our own,
and we're allowing ourselves to
Shawn Kennedy. Board member. For me being heard is just an
acceptance, right?
You're, you're part of a group, small group like this,
a team at work, a family.
If somebody is listening to you,
it doesn't mean that they have to agree with you on
everything because we are different people,
but if they're hearing you, they're accepting you.
And once somebody accepts you, then you can collaborate.
You can work.
You can do things together.
You can accomplish things.
What is one barrier that keeps people in your school from
feeling like they belong?
My first thought, again, I don't have an answer to this,
I'm interested to hear what the group says is,
students just don't know what they don't know.
They don't know what's out there for them that they might
be interested in,
that they can join a group or a club or a sport or
something that they're just not aware of.
Now this school has two campuses, it's 4,000 kids,
it's 500 staff, there's a lot going on here.
Things can get lost.
I know we have technology and we have apps and emails and
things that we can reach out to kids,
but are we getting in touch with every kid in this school
about everything that's going on?
Because there might be just one thing that they say, yeah,
that's something I'm interested in.
I'll kind of chime in there.
When I hear that question,
it's interesting because as a teacher here and a parent
here,
my first reaction is how teachers might feel like they
don't belong within our culture.
And then even the students, we take surveys every year,
staff, students do, and our belonging.
I mean, we're at, I think like 51%, 52.
Like it's not where we want it to be.
It's definitely getting better.
But I know from that staff perspective,
and I think this extends to students too,
there's a barrier of just lack of connection.
And I think, again,
it's a very big school and we have a huge staff and some
staff commute between campuses and some staff have four
classrooms.
And so I think there's a lot of people who feel isolated.
And I know as a teacher,
I see a lot of students who they don't really talk much and
they're kind of isolated.
And it's very easy to forget about that, I guess.
So I think that is a big challenge is building those
connections so that people feel safe to try to leave a club
or to try coming to a social gathering.
I won't piggyback off both of those.
Like your community sounds like it's a lot larger and more
robust than the community that I come from.
We are a single district school.
So it's like 130 teachers versus 500 staff members.
And I think that one of those barriers might be,
there has to be a trust between teachers and staff members
in order for students to look at those people and say,
Oh yeah, okay.
Like we can now connect and things don't fall off because
you might have thousands of students,
but each of them comes into a classroom and where they're a
part of the community.
So like if teachers are trusting each other and building
those communities within the school,
I think that the students are more likely to want to engage
in those things and like help with those barriers.
One of the barriers that I see from our smaller community
is like preconceived notions,
which I think piggybacks off of that, like, right.
So if my demographic is the students with emotional and
behavioral disabilities, a lot of people are like, Oh,
I don't want them in my space because this is the
one I've heard or what?
Right.
Yeah.
So like,
I think that one of the barriers would be once you build
that community and those, that trust,
how do we maintain that dignity of those around us,
the other staff members or students?
I think it's communication respect.
I think we have a small school,
and I think if we can just learn to communicate and respect
because there's so much that we don't know about each
other.
And we all want the best for the children,
but there's so much that you don't know about a person
sitting next to you that if you would just communicate and
take the time to know about that person,
and then we want the same end result,
but you don't take the time to learn about that person.
If you take that time to know about that person and what
they're going through or who they are,
there's so much more to them.
They may have a degree, they may not need that degree,
they may know more about that student or what they're going
through.
And you can get to that end result quicker if you just give
them the respect and that communication.
We can accomplish so much more if we just do that one
simple thing.
I mean, we're putting up our own roadblocks.
Just communicate with that person, respect them,
and you'll get that.
I agree with that.
And I think that's in all aspects of life too.
It's not just the school it's, it's, you know,
I've noticed with my own children,
there's a lot of times where everybody is in the living
room or something where everybody's like this and I'm
looking around, you know,
why is everybody looking at their phone?
Why aren't we talking to each other, watching, you know,
whatever it is that we're watching and you go out to a
restaurant and you see a family at a table and they're all
sitting there and don't just communicate with them.
Nobody's interacting.
Right.
I think it was very interesting that one thing that you
said, because again, this question,
I didn't know what the answer was.
I didn't have any preconceived barriers,
but interesting that if teachers feel that way,
then they're going to convey or maybe not convey a certain
sense of openness and community into the students.
So it sounds like it has to start at the top.
Right.
The Board, the superintendent, the principal,
the admin staff,
Ed needs to start there so that it starts to funnel down to
the teachers, that funnel down to the rest of the staff,
that funnel down to the students and everybody else.
That was profound to hear that,
that a teacher might feel that way,
because I'm in here thinking about just the students.
Where, again, 500 staff, 150 staff,
a lot of staff that we need to be having some too,
and how they feel on a day to day.
Until that we're supposed to be the example for the
students and you're not even doing that to each other.
Right.
And we're supposed to be teaching them as students,
if the students treated us the way we treat each other.
always make see exactly what's true right even in second
grade they see they see it yes they're sucking it in like a
spot you know okay
Well, it's interesting.
So I teach communications and required course here,
interpersonal communication,
and we teach about listening and speaking and, you know,
essentially the conversation,
but it is interesting because like what you both just said,
our students pick up on which teachers are just more
connected to our community.
And I mean,
our school is definitely trying to combat that from the top
down.
But yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's interesting.
We have to be so aware of the culture we're creating and
then if we're expecting students to feel like they're a
part of it.
Let's select a perspective shifting question.
One of the things that I heard during the last discussion
was the fact that we're thinking about how do we create
cultures and make students feel like they belong.
And you teach second graders and you're able to curate that
day for them.
But what about when students are in a high school,
when they're going from one class to another class when
each classroom has its own culture or those expectations?
Yeah.
And even, you know,
that would be the hidden curriculum as well.
Not just the cultural expectations, you know,
the kids essentially are code switching every period.
And when in regards to hidden curriculum, you know,
there are all these things that are just implied and a lot
of students don't know that, you know,
and I'm thinking specifically about like our neurodivergent
population and they may not know that teacher A expects,
you know, MLA formatting and all of this and teacher B,
you're allowed to get up and walk around the room and we
see a lot of challenges with that.
And, and again, with like, almost 500 staff or four,
I don't even know how many, there's not a consistency,
you know,
in policies and expectations and especially here at South,
it's really hard for the kids.
So, would we like to choose the perspective question,
what would it look like if your voice truly influenced
decisions in your school?
Or, would we like to look at question number one,
what is something you wish decision makers asked you before
making a policy or change?
Question 2 would cover more broadly and be able to help
with the other ones.
All right, and let's go ahead with question number two,
what would it look like if your voice truly influenced
decision in your school?
This is hard because I guess I do have a somewhat of a
powerful voice, right, is being on the board.
We're the beginning and the end of a policy that I guess I
do feel as though mine is heard.
I'm interested to see where everybody else kind of comes
in.
So you have a built-in platform for your voice,
where not everyone does.
Great point. We have open discussion.
We have a committee of the whole meeting in the beginning
of the month,
and then we have a loading meeting at the end of the month.
So there's plenty of time for me to voice my opinion on
something and get out there that, yes, I have a platform.
Does everybody feel as though that they have that?
And if not, then, okay,
what do we do to create that platform?
Because again, as we said on the last question, all right,
it starts at the top, right?
Whatever we're doing there should be emulated throughout
the school system all the way down.
Because if it's working here,
then should hopefully start working and move down.
So.
I guess that's where my ferocity comes out.
And you guys will see, like, I know that like,
I feel like we always hear teachers say like, well,
admin is so far removed.
They moved into admin admin positions or board positions to
remove themselves from the classroom.
And they don't know what's going on in the trenches.
They don't know what's happening.
Right.
So if as an educator,
my voice truly influenced those decisions,
would it make me feel more safe at school?
Would it make me feel like my voice mattered?
I don't like in any way feel like calling anybody out,
but I'm like, as a woman,
I think that we search in a lot for a long period of time
to find a place where our voice matters.
So like some people are the wake up and they are given
those abilities,
but some people wake up in silence all the time.
And as a person of color, as a woman,
I feel like when I'm in my classroom, that is my space,
but outside of that classroom, it's like,
how much value is my voice and how is that?
And I go to board meetings and I attend different things in
the region and union levels and things like that.
But I'm feeling sometimes my voice is minimalized by not
having enough support from underneath to come up.
So we keep seeing this trickle down,
but really it needs to be a movement up and like something
to uplift and hold those people that make it their voices
feel a little bit quieter.
And to add onto that, I love everything that you said,
but I,
I really like how you talked about from like the bottom up.
And I know as a teacher here,
I think a lot of the staff feels that their voice doesn't
matter.
So they kind of don't try or they don't engage and like,
we definitely have to really push to like get the teachers
involved in like faculty association.
And I see your side of it where I feel like it's almost
like a bottom up effort where we have to communicate that
we can have a voice and we need to not just shut our door
and do what we do in our class.
I think the shift, at least here would be if the teachers,
the staff are articulating thoughts, feelings, ideas,
if then those were better recognized by the top.
And I think, you know,
you all do a great job of listening and hearing and I think
we feel that,
but I think it's that we often feel like nothing happens
because of that.
And I think that's where a lot of the staff members kind of
disengage from those conversations.
When I look to the board,
cause we just didn't like our contract.
This is my issue.
Everybody has their part.
So I don't have a problem with that,
but make me understand.
When I'm speaking,
I feel like you're making a decision for me.
Make yourself more visible.
Come to the building, make yourself known.
Let the students know who you are.
Let us know who you are.
When you're making the decision for me,
make yourself visible because I'm here every day.
I'm working with the student.
Make yourself known at the building so we know who you are.
So I'm not saying you personally, you personally, whoever,
but make yourself more visible because you are the people
making more of the decisions.
So if you want to make a decision on what the contract is
or what's going to happen in the building,
make yourself more known,
be more visible so we all know who you are.
Cause I felt like if you won't decide what my pay is going
to be and how it's going to be or what all these policies
are,
I need to know more about who you are and what we're doing.
Because if I'm screaming all the time,
I'm not getting more of this or what's going on in the
building, or this is a problem, I don't know who you are.
And I'm coming to the board to talk to you all the time.
And you're just like, whatever.
That's a problem.
That's a problem.
I have a problem and we need to have more of a
conversation.
It's not a two-way thing,
but you're just telling me that's not going to happen.
I have to live.
I still have to live.
I have to pay all the money.
I have to still come to work.
I have to deal with the decisions that you make on my
behalf, you know?
So, and I get it.
I get it.
You can't do everything for everybody all the time,
but have a conversation and give me a better understanding
of what's going on.
That's the issue that I have.
I mean, I'm not trying to say that.
It's just, you know,
everybody's going to the tip of the tantrum,
but it should be a better understanding.
You can't make decisions for everybody and nobody knows who
you are.
They can see a picture of you on the website.
You know?
Right.
I absolutely appreciate that because I think also it would
help speaking as board member.
I know that you're not all speaking as board member.
Trust me, I get it.
If I can experience the see what your day-to-day is,
it helps me understand that when we're making policy too.
Right.
Of, okay, yes, I can see the knee because I was there.
I saw the classroom was missing this and that's essential
to these teachers to have or something.
If I'm just showing up twice a month for a couple hours a
night, I'm just getting information from the principal,
the assistant principal, the communication chair,
the HR chair, getting more in.
Now, I will say for me personally, I do do that.
So aside from being a board member,
I also help mentor a business class here.
So I'm in the school, you know,
two to four times a month outside of my regular meeting
during the school day.
And it is nice as a board member to see the daily activity
that's going on.
Now, unfortunately,
it's only at North Campus because that's what class is.
So I don't get to experience it here.
I shouldn't just make an assumption that it's the same
because it's not.
I get that.
But yeah,
I think that's absolutely important that a board member
should be more involved in new things to see the day-to-day
if they're making policies and decisions at the time.
Right.
I think that goes back to like the barriers that we talked
about.
So where does the communication on it or the collaboration
begin, right?
So like,
it sounds like a lot of that is like your voice isn't being
heard because the collaboration has ended.
For your voice isn't being heard,
or where does that look like before that policy is being
placed?
It's like, where was I included?
My voice was all the way out here.
And like,
so how much impact and how much change should that be?
All of our voices were heard right before that policy.
And not just from a department head or something,
like if there's a breakfast meeting with the entire
communications department and we were voting or making
policy on communications.
Does it make sense to have a half an hour where you and the
rest of your team are coming in and talking to us?
And then we take that information.
And then when we get it from the department head,
we can say, okay,
but that's not what we heard from the group that was
actually saying that
Spend some minutes in there.
Like how much time did you spend in this classroom?
Yeah.
How many minutes did you spend at this school?
What a job.
Like do you know what I'm doing?
Yeah.
Do where you at my job site.
You have no idea what I did all day.
So how are you going to make a decision about what any of
us did?
Yeah.
So how can you know what's best?
What does she do in your morning meeting?
Nobody knows what you did.
So how can you make a decision on that?
And like you said, you've been in the classroom.
So you know, so that makes a big difference when you're,
you're making a decision.
You know.
Yeah,
when the kids are complaining that they can't get wi-fi and
I'm on my own cell phone.
Like I can't get money to like,
I have no idea what's going on in the classroom.
So if I'm going to tell you,
you don't need any more materials.
So how are you going to make a decision?
How many minutes?
Right.
I'm just thinking like, you know, once a quarter,
board members should be in a different department,
like for a breakfast, again, half an hour.
And it's just tell us, you know,
give us the information so that we can say that, yeah,
we heard that same common theme throughout a couple of
different departments,
where maybe the administration didn't bring that to us,
they didn't see it as a problem,
because we're not hearing from the real end user of the
who's running the classroom.
I would absolutely be open to something like that.
And I think something like that would be great because,
and again,
I'm not like speaking on behalf of all of the staff here,
but I know having taught here for a very long time,
there are many teachers and staff members who feel that,
as you said, that their voice isn't being heard.
So they just kind of, as I said earlier,
they disengage or they don't try.
And I think we have had some really positive changes in our
leadership who are trying so many different ways to
encourage that communication and build that connection.
And I think even as a member of Equity Ambassadors,
our hurdle now is how do we get the people disengaged and
back in?
And so I think something like what you're advocating I
think could be a really positive step because sometimes
people, they literally,
they just want to be able to say what they want to say.
And it'll be interesting because I think we've all been in
a situation where you're thinking it, you haven't said it,
and all of a sudden there's three people in the room
thinking and saying the same thing.
And all of a sudden you're like, hey, I'm on board,
I'm right aligned with them.
So you have four people now that haven't said the same
thing,
but are all in agreement and don't know they're in agreement
because they haven't had an open forum to sit and talk
about it.
And that's where change then starts to come.
And they give us a lot of surveys, which is good,
but the downside to the surveys is a) they're very lengthy.
There are many on staff who I don't know if they all take
it seriously.
You know, just like with our students.
So.
You start to fade off at the end.
So, I think a conversation is always a good way.
When you said survey,
the first thing I thought of is this cold,
which is you're looking at your computer screen and you're
answering questions.
Yeah.
If you're having a dialogue with somebody that's more
inclusive and accepting and there is, you know, again,
a dialogue, it's not just a one way street of sometimes,
more than often, never, you know,
I mean, I would even say,
and I know they like the surveys because it gives
quantitative data.
I would say have the dialogue first and then maybe give a
truncated version of the survey and collect the surveys.
The survey is a tool in the toolbox, right?
There's other tools in the toolbox that we should be using.
I'm going to say,
and when you come out and see what great work everybody's
doing, it's another way for you to see, Hey, this was what,
this is what's working.
Yeah.
Let's try this because you got great people working.
What else can we do?
Not just barriers, but wonderful things.
And let's go ahead and let's move on to a future focused
question.
And we will wrap up with this question.
What about number four?
I think that would be wonderful.
What advice would you give to new teachers about creating
inclusive spaces?
Can I ask a good question before we answer that question?
Is that through your education process of becoming a
teacher or administrator or whatever we will,
is this something that's ever on a curriculum through
school or are you just getting this when you're actually at
the school that you're at?
Sometimes it comes at you that way.
Okay, that's what I think.
You kind of get it when you get there, Tou know,
like in my school,
we didn't learn in college and everything like that.
So I
got my first chance my first two years, and then I was just scrambling, you know, at the same time trying to soak up every single thing, but also trying to be there for my kids, but also find my place as a young teacher, because I'm 26.
Yeah, I would say, and I love what you said about,
don't be afraid to be uncomfortable.
I would say that for any teacher, and as an older teacher,
you're exactly right.
There are some times that divide because that wasn't
necessarily how we were taught to teach and how many of us
taught for a long time.
And so I know like me personally,
and when I've mentored teachers, I always say,
your classroom is your safe space,
and it's the safe space for your students.
And, you know, you can read all this stuff.
You can watch all the videos, but at the end of the day,
it's about creating those relationships with the kids that
are in there for 40 minutes an hour or whatever.
And sometimes that means curriculum takes a back seat.
And I think that's a really important thing to remember
because I think especially newer teachers,
you feel so much pressure.
I am a career changer.
So I spent 20 years of my career in healthcare and swapped
over to education.
I never saw myself as an educator.
I never saw myself as a student.
I never saw myself in the curriculum.
I never saw myself as any part of education.
My parents, they didn't think in means of education,
not that they belittled it,
but they weren't like advocating for the future education
or things like that.
Just based on how they have to live their own lives.
So I feel like creating inclusive spaces for new teachers
would be just welcoming students into your classroom,
no matter what,
and allowing them to see themselves in that classroom.
I think about those mirrors, things, think about the doors,
things,
think about those reflections that they're seeing every
time they enter your space.
And we brought it up earlier about like code switching and
making sure that they are ready for one class or ready for
one teacher or ready for whatever is being asked of them
during those times that they're with you.
It's creating that space that makes them feel like they are
welcome no matter what,
or that that space and that time you are spending with them
is for them.
And it's not for you to get through curriculum, right?
It's for you and them to collaborate.
It's for that growth that happens.
I think that older teachers didn't really have that
ideology.
That said like, Hey,
we need to see ourselves in the curriculum.
They were like, this is the book.
This is the man.
This is the, you know,
and so I think new teachers need to continue to just allow
kids to be kids.
As a job coach,
I just think when other coaches come around,
I just think you just express your uniqueness and working
with the student.
Just listen to them and believe that they can do the job
that you're showing them to do.
Just show them the life skills and whatever they're doing,
believe that they can do it.
And if they're having trouble, then just navigate,
navigate, try it a different way.
And so they can get it.
Just believe that they can do it until they show you
anything different.
Help them believe in themselves faster.
They can do it.
Right.
They can do it.
Again, it's not a mistake if you learn something from it.
Try it a different way.
The first day I walked into my mentor class,
told everybody to write a number down.
It was the end of the time where I was introducing myself.
I said, all right, who remembers that number?
And, you know, they raised their hand.
I said, does anybody have any idea what I was referring to?
You know, no, and it was a big number.
It was like 2,250 or something.
I said, well,
that's how many times Thomas Edison failed before he
actually went into the light bulb.
Did he see any of those as a failure?
No,
it was just another step to get to what he was trying to
accomplish.
When I grew up, it was you got the D or the F or whatever,
and it was, you know, if you fail, you didn't succeed,
as opposed to somebody saying, Okay,
you were really close on this,
but you didn't get this end of the formula.
You had the first part.
Here's the second part.
Let me help you get there because you actually have a lot
of it correct.
Instead of just seeing that it was wrong.
And I think that is a great way of teaching and
communicating with kids and helping build them up.
And we wanted to thank you for being here with us today.
Before we close,
we want to take a moment to say thank you from the heart to
our guests, Jennifer, Kirsten, Bernadette, Aisha,
and Shawn.
Thank you for saying yes, for showing up,
and for being so willing to share your honest thoughts and
experiences with people you had only just met.
That kind of openness and trust is a gift,
and we don't take it lightly.
We are truly grateful.
We also want to extend our sincere appreciation to Lyons
Township for hosting the Sixth Annual Building Inclusive
Community Conference,
a gathering that brought together nearly 200 participants
in the shared pursuit of deeper understanding, empathy,
and community.
Events like this one remind us of what's possible when
educators come together with open minds and open hearts.
And a very special thank you to Dr.
Jennifer Rowe,
whose vision and leadership make this conference happen
year after year.
If you're interested in learning more or joining the
community yourself next year,
we've included her contact information in the show notes,
and we hope you'll reach out.
Don't forget,
the Roundtable Protocol our guests use today is also linked
in the show notes.
We really do hope you'll bring it back to your colleagues
and let it open up some meaningful conversation.
And to you, our listeners,
thank you for being part of the New Teacher Talk family.
Stay connected by following us on Instagram and BlueSky @New
TeacherTalk.
And if this episode spoke to you,
please pass it along to someone who needs to hear it.
The more voices we bring into this conversation,
the richer it becomes.
Until next time, keep showing up for your students,
for each other and for yourself.