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Mega Edition: Anne Taylor And The Conflict Of Interest Allegations In Moscow (8/21/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. A
0:05
Speaker 1: lot has been made about a possible conflict of interest
0:09
Speaker 1: involving Brian Cooberger's public defender and Taylor, and that conflict
0:15
Speaker 1: arises from the fact that Ann Taylor previously had represented
0:19
Speaker 1: several of the family members of the murdered victims. Well,
0:24
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor met with Judge Marshall recently and Judge Marshall
0:29
Speaker 1: after meeting with Anne Taylor, they decided that there would
0:32
Speaker 1: be no conflict of interest here as long as Brian
0:35
Speaker 1: Coberger was okay with Ann Taylor representing him. Still, even
0:39
Speaker 1: though there was that possibility of a conflict of interest,
0:44
Speaker 1: and for me, my biggest concern has been that Brian
0:47
Speaker 1: Coberger would attempt to use this during an appeal. And
0:50
Speaker 1: while I'm sure that they're making him sign some sort
0:52
Speaker 1: of waiver that says it's okay for her to continue
0:56
Speaker 1: to represent him, I have no doubt that if he's
0:59
Speaker 1: found guilty, that he'll try and use every single thing
1:02
Speaker 1: that he possibly can, as far as technicalities or loopholes
1:06
Speaker 1: to try and get a new trial. I mean, wouldn't
1:08
Speaker 1: you if you were on trial for your life and
1:11
Speaker 1: you thought that there was a chance that you could
1:14
Speaker 1: use some sort of technicality to get a new trial.
1:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure that everybody out there would attempt to do
1:20
Speaker 1: the same thing, So you would think that the court
1:22
Speaker 1: has some sort of safeguard against this, and my guess
1:25
Speaker 1: is that Brian Colberger had to sign some kind of waiver.
1:29
Speaker 1: But let's get into this article from Newsweek and let's
1:32
Speaker 1: see what they have to say about a possible conflict
1:36
Speaker 1: of interest and the meeting that Judge Marshall had with
1:40
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor. This article was published by Newsweek headline Brian
1:46
Speaker 1: Coberger's lawyer breaks silence over conflict of interest. This article
1:52
Speaker 1: was authored by Kalita Rockman. Brian Coberger's court appointed attorney
1:59
Speaker 1: will continue Knew representing him after a hearing was held
2:02
Speaker 1: earlier this week to address concerns about a possible conflict
2:06
Speaker 1: of interest. An Taylor, the chief of the Cootney County
2:10
Speaker 1: Public Defender's Office, began representing Coburger after he was extradited
2:15
Speaker 1: to Idaho from Pennsylvania to face charges in the slayings
2:19
Speaker 1: of four University of Idaho students. He is accused of
2:23
Speaker 1: breaking into a rental home in Moscow, Idaho, on November thirteenth,
2:28
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and fatally stabbing Kayley Gonsalves, Madison Mogan,
2:33
Speaker 1: Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. It later emerged that Taylor
2:39
Speaker 1: was listed in court records as representing Xana Kernodle's mother,
2:43
Speaker 1: Kara Kernodle, up until taking Coburger on as a client.
2:48
Speaker 1: Her office also reportedly represented two other parents of the victims,
2:54
Speaker 1: and we talked about this at the time. Obviously, Ann
2:57
Speaker 1: Taylor doesn't get to decide what cases that her office represents.
3:02
Speaker 1: She's a public defender. Her office gets assigned cases and
3:06
Speaker 1: they go from there. And when you live in a
3:08
Speaker 1: small place like Leita County, or you live up in
3:12
Speaker 1: a place like Cootney County, you're going to have a
3:15
Speaker 1: situation where the Public Defender's office more than likely has
3:19
Speaker 1: represented people who have had problems. And we know that
3:22
Speaker 1: more times than not, if you're a drug addice, the
3:25
Speaker 1: drug abuser, you're not going to have the money to
3:27
Speaker 1: pay for a private attorney, so you're going to be
3:31
Speaker 1: assigned an attorney from the public Defender's office. And my
3:34
Speaker 1: beef was never really with that, right. I understand how
3:37
Speaker 1: all of that works, and I get it. For me,
3:40
Speaker 1: it's always been about the appeal, more about Brian Koberger
3:44
Speaker 1: and him maneuvering afterwards than it has been about Ann Taylor.
3:48
Speaker 1: I'm sure that Anne Taylor is able to do her
3:50
Speaker 1: job and do it responsibly. Look, it's not an easy
3:53
Speaker 1: gig being a public defender. You have a gigantic backlog
3:58
Speaker 1: of casework, you have hardly any help, there's no resources there.
4:03
Speaker 1: And I'm sure it's a little different where she is
4:05
Speaker 1: a public defender, being that it's in Idaho Cootney County,
4:09
Speaker 1: a lot different than say, I don't know, New York
4:13
Speaker 1: or Los Angeles or insert big city here where the
4:16
Speaker 1: caseload is just so extremely insane that these public defenders
4:20
Speaker 1: hardly have any time with their clients. Now up here
4:24
Speaker 1: in Idaho, I think that's a little bit different because
4:27
Speaker 1: of the population, the public defender's office is not as
4:31
Speaker 1: busy as it would be in a bigger city. Taylor
4:35
Speaker 1: filed a notice to withdraw from Kara Kernodle's case on
4:39
Speaker 1: January fifth, the same day that Coburger made his first
4:42
Speaker 1: appearance in an Idaho courtroom, which legal experts told Newsweek
4:47
Speaker 1: raised questions about a conflict of interest. Taylor explained why
4:52
Speaker 1: she does not believe there is a conflict in the
4:54
Speaker 1: case during a hearing held via zoom on January twenty seventh.
5:00
Speaker 1: According to newly unsealed court documents, she told Leyta County
5:04
Speaker 1: Magistrate Judge Megan Marshall during the hearing that her name
5:08
Speaker 1: appears on every document in the Public Defender's office, but
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Speaker 1: below that is the name of the attorney that represents
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Speaker 1: the individual in the case, according to the minutes of
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Speaker 1: the hearing, and that makes sense, right. She is the
5:21
Speaker 1: chief public Defender, so it's her office, so her name
5:25
Speaker 1: is going to appear on all of the paperwork. One
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Speaker 1: case involving Kara Kernodle is an open felony case that
5:35
Speaker 1: she was not assigned to, and the case has since
5:38
Speaker 1: been conflicted out, Taylor said. She explained that her practice
5:42
Speaker 1: is to transfer all cases that are pending with JAWL
5:45
Speaker 1: or have a bench warrant, usually over failure to appear
5:49
Speaker 1: in court issued to her. And when you're dealing with
5:52
Speaker 1: drug addicts, chances are they're not going to appear in
5:55
Speaker 1: court when they're scheduled to be there, and then obviously
5:58
Speaker 1: that compounds their problem problems because now they have a
6:01
Speaker 1: bench warrant and it's just all bad. As much as
6:04
Speaker 1: I dump on lawyers in general, I have a very
6:07
Speaker 1: healthy respect for public defenders. The job that they're doing
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Speaker 1: is a job that is crucial to our system working correctly.
6:15
Speaker 1: That is why she said. A twenty seventeen misdemeanor case
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Speaker 1: in which Kara Kernodle was already sentenced and had her
6:23
Speaker 1: office was waiting to withdraw from ended up being assigned
6:26
Speaker 1: tour on October twentieth. The attorney who represented Kara Kernodle
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Speaker 1: in that case had left the Public Defender's Office in
6:34
Speaker 1: September or October last year, she said, And I'm sure
6:38
Speaker 1: there's a huge turnover. Imagine you're working as a public
6:41
Speaker 1: defender and then one of these hotshot private law firm
6:45
Speaker 1: shows up and offers you a bunch of dough. I mean,
6:48
Speaker 1: you have to do what's best for you and your family, right,
6:51
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that a lot of the good talent
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Speaker 1: from the Public Defender's Office gets poached on a regular basis.
7:00
Speaker 1: Said in January that she felt heartbroken that Taylor was
7:04
Speaker 1: representing her daughter's alleged killer. She pretended that she was
7:08
Speaker 1: wanting to help me, and to find out that she's
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Speaker 1: representing him, I can't even convey how betrayed I feel,
7:14
Speaker 1: she said. Taylor told the judge during the hearing that
7:18
Speaker 1: from October twentieth until the date that she withdrew from
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Speaker 1: the case, she had no contact or relationship with Kara Kernodle.
7:26
Speaker 1: Taylor said she had not met her or provided any
7:30
Speaker 1: legal advice. So that kind of changes things for me anyway, right,
7:35
Speaker 1: And that's why it's important to have all of the
7:37
Speaker 1: context of the story. If she never met with her
7:41
Speaker 1: and she never gave her any legal advice and it
7:43
Speaker 1: was just her office overseeing the case, well that's certainly
7:48
Speaker 1: not a conflict of interest in my opinion. And as
7:51
Speaker 1: long as that's true and it was just her office
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Speaker 1: that was handling it, then even on appeal, Brian Koberger
7:57
Speaker 1: will have a very, very long uphill climb to get
8:01
Speaker 1: a possible guilty verdict overturned because if Ann Taylor wasn't
8:05
Speaker 1: handling the case directly, then there's certainly no conflict of interest.
8:09
Speaker 1: And remember the initial reporting was that Ann Taylor was
8:13
Speaker 1: directly handling this case. So if that was the scenario,
8:17
Speaker 1: which it seems like it wasn't. If it was, though,
8:19
Speaker 1: then definitely certainly a conflict of interest that has to
8:22
Speaker 1: be dealt with. But like everything else, once we start
8:26
Speaker 1: getting context, everything starts to become more clear. And that's
8:30
Speaker 1: why I like to do things the way we do
8:31
Speaker 1: it here, follow along every day and keep adding to
8:35
Speaker 1: the story as the information continues to evolve. She also
8:40
Speaker 1: told the judge that she had spoken with Leta County
8:42
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Bill Thomas and Ashley Jennings, Senior Deputy prosecutor to
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Speaker 1: explain the situation. People she spoke with at the Bar
8:52
Speaker 1: Council's Office of the Idaho State Bar agreed that there
8:55
Speaker 1: was no conflict of interest, she said, and if Bill
8:59
Speaker 1: Thompson's on board, I would think that everything's on the
9:01
Speaker 1: up and up right. The last thing that the prosecutor
9:04
Speaker 1: wants to do is go through a pricey trial with
9:07
Speaker 1: Brian Colberger just to have it end up in a
9:10
Speaker 1: mistrial or the conviction get tossed out on appeal. So
9:14
Speaker 1: my guess is they sat down and they've hammered this
9:17
Speaker 1: all out. Taylor stated that there is no other person
9:21
Speaker 1: that she is connected to in this case and stated
9:24
Speaker 1: that mister Colberger is the only individual in this case
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Speaker 1: to whom she owes a duty of advocacy and loyalty,
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Speaker 1: the minute said. The judge then questioned Coburger, who said
9:37
Speaker 1: that given the information he has heard and the conversations
9:40
Speaker 1: he has had with miss Taylor, he feels comfortable proceeding
9:43
Speaker 1: with her as counsel, per the minutes, So that should
9:47
Speaker 1: end it right there. I'm sure he had to sign
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Speaker 1: some waiver, and if he did sign that waiver, I
9:51
Speaker 1: don't want to hear un gatts at a Brian Coohberger
9:55
Speaker 1: about an appeal based on a conflict of interest. Coburger
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Speaker 1: is chick charged with four counts of first degree murder
10:02
Speaker 1: and one count of felony burglary. He has not yet
10:05
Speaker 1: entered a plea to the charges, but a lawyer who
10:07
Speaker 1: previously represented him in Pennsylvania, where he was arrested on
10:11
Speaker 1: December thirtieth, said he was eager to be exonerated. Early
10:16
Speaker 1: in January, Judge Marshall issued a gag order barring attorneys,
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Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies, and others associated with the case from
10:24
Speaker 1: talking or writing about it. She later broadened it to
10:28
Speaker 1: also prohibit any attorneys representing survivors, witnesses, or the victim's
10:33
Speaker 1: family members from talking or writing about the case. A
10:37
Speaker 1: five day preliminary hearing is scheduled to begin on June
10:41
Speaker 1: twenty sixth. While with that ruling, the judge has certainly
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Speaker 1: given her go ahead and the okay for Anne Taylor
10:49
Speaker 1: to continue to represent Brian Koberger. And with that meeting,
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Speaker 1: that should close the door on the whole conflict of
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Speaker 1: interest conversation. All that's going to do it for this one.
11:01
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with the episode can
11:04
Speaker 1: be found in the description. Bob, Everyone, and welcome back
11:08
Speaker 1: to the program. On this episode, we have some more
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Speaker 1: court documents to get to and they have to do
11:15
Speaker 1: with the conflict of interest hearing that Judge Marshall had
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Speaker 1: with Ann Taylor. So let's just dive right in. The
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Speaker 1: first document we're going to look at is the motion
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Speaker 1: to unseal Court record regarding Conflict Issues of Defense Council
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Speaker 1: Case number CR twenty nine DASH twenty two DASH twenty
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Speaker 1: eighth five the State of Idaho Plaintiff versus Brian Coberger,
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Speaker 1: the defendant comes now Council for the Victim's Family, Gonsalves,
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Speaker 1: Shannon Gray and moves the Court for an order to
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Speaker 1: unseal the record regarding the conflict issues of Defense Council.
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Speaker 1: This request is based on the grounds and for the
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Speaker 1: reasons set forth in the memorandum attached here too, and
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Speaker 1: by this reference incorporated herein. And this motion was signed
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Speaker 1: by Shannon Gray. Our next document is the Memorandum in
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Speaker 1: support of motion to unseal Court record regarding conflict Issues
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Speaker 1: of Defense Council. Case number c R twenty nine DASH
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Speaker 1: twenty two DASH twenty eighth five, State of Idaho Plaintiff
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Speaker 1: versus Brian Coohberger, the defendant. I, Shannon L. Gray, am
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Speaker 1: an attorney licensed in the State of Idaho. I represent
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Speaker 1: victim Kayley Gonsalva's family in the above referenced matter. I
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Speaker 1: make this memorandum in support of the motion to unseal
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Speaker 1: the court record regarding conflict issues in Defense Council. The
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Speaker 1: Court held a hearing regarding conflict issue use of Defense
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Speaker 1: Council and Taylor on January twenty seventh, twenty twenty three.
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Speaker 1: The parties present were Defense Council and Dashley Jennings representing
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Speaker 1: the Layta County Prosecutor's Office. I am not aware of
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Speaker 1: any other council that was present at the hearing. I
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Speaker 1: am also not aware that any one other than the
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Speaker 1: parties mentioned above were even notified of the hearing on
13:24
Speaker 1: this matter. The Gonsavas family and I only became aware
13:28
Speaker 1: that there was a hearing on this matter from a
13:30
Speaker 1: meeting with the Leata County Prosecutor's Office and investigators on
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Speaker 1: February eighth, twenty twenty three, or we would have never
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Speaker 1: known such a hearing took place. Legal authority I had
13:44
Speaker 1: a whole Court Administrative Rule thirty two governs the release,
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Speaker 1: exemption from release, and limitations upon release of judicial records. Specifically,
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Speaker 1: I DOT S DOT A dot R thirty two outlines
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Speaker 1: the precep for sealing court records. In ruling on whether
14:03
Speaker 1: specific records should be disclosed, redacted, or sealed by the
14:08
Speaker 1: order of the court, the court shall determine and make
14:11
Speaker 1: a finding of fact as to whether the interest in
14:14
Speaker 1: privacy or public disclosure predominates. If the court redacts or
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Speaker 1: seals records to protect predominating privacy issues, it must fashion
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Speaker 1: the least restrictive exception from disclosure consistent with privacy interests
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Speaker 1: before a court may enter in order redacting or sealing records.
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Speaker 1: It must also make one or more of the following
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Speaker 1: determinations in writing. One that the documents or materials contain
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Speaker 1: highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would
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Speaker 1: be highly objectional to a reasonable person, or two that
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Speaker 1: the documents or materials contain facts or statements that the
14:57
Speaker 1: court finds might be libelous, or three that the documents
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Speaker 1: or materials contain facts or statements, the dissemination of publication
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Speaker 1: of which would reasonably result in economic or financial loss
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Speaker 1: or harm to a person having an interest in the
15:15
Speaker 1: documents or materials, or compromise the security of personnel, records,
15:21
Speaker 1: or public property of or used by the judicial department.
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Speaker 1: Or four that the documents or materials contain facts or
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Speaker 1: statements that might threaten or endanger the life or safety
15:35
Speaker 1: of individuals, or five that it is necessary to temporarily
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Speaker 1: seal or redact the documents or materials to preserve the
15:45
Speaker 1: right to a fair trial. State versus Allen, one fifty
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Speaker 1: six Idaho three thirty two, three thirty six three twenty
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Speaker 1: five p dot three D. Six seventy three, six seventy
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Speaker 1: seven Court of Appeals twenty fourteen that rule provides the
16:01
Speaker 1: public has a right to examine and copy the judicial
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Speaker 1: departments Declaration of Law and public policy, and to examine
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Speaker 1: and copy the records of all proceedings open to the
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Speaker 1: public I dot C DOT A dot R thirty two
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Speaker 1: A Idaho Code Section seventy four one oh one memorializes
16:23
Speaker 1: Idaho's Public Records Act. In determining whether a record should
16:28
Speaker 1: be sealed, there should also be consideration of whether the
16:32
Speaker 1: place and process have historically been opened to the press
16:36
Speaker 1: and general public, and whether public access plays a significant
16:40
Speaker 1: positive role in the functioning of the particular process in question.
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Speaker 1: Press Enterprise Company versus Superior Court, four seventy eight US
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Speaker 1: one eight, nineteen eighty six. Argument. Since the record has
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Speaker 1: been sealed regarding the conflict issue regarding defense counsel and
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Speaker 1: Taylor on this matter, and the fact that the Leta
17:05
Speaker 1: County Prosecutor's Office did not offer any objections or evidence
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Speaker 1: at the time of the hearing, we will presume there
17:13
Speaker 1: is a minimal record of findings and conclusions. It is
17:16
Speaker 1: also my understanding that there were no witnesses called during
17:20
Speaker 1: the hearing, and no other outside testimony was given to
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Speaker 1: the court other than that of defense Counsel and Taylor.
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Speaker 1: In determining whether to seal the record of the hearing
17:31
Speaker 1: on the conflict issues of defense Counsel and Taylor, the
17:35
Speaker 1: court would have to analyze and apply I DOT C
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Speaker 1: DOT A dot R thirty two and public policy case law.
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Speaker 1: Conflict issues in this case would involve Miss Taylor's ability
17:48
Speaker 1: to represent mister Koberger after previously representing Kara Kernodle, the
17:53
Speaker 1: mother of one of the victims in this case, Zana Kernodle,
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Speaker 1: as well as any other actual or potential conflicts with
18:01
Speaker 1: any other clients. In addition, the court would have to
18:05
Speaker 1: address any issues regarding why Miss Taylor withdrew from Miss
18:09
Speaker 1: Kara Kernodle's representation as a current client in order to
18:13
Speaker 1: take on mister Koberger. That would include if there has
18:19
Speaker 1: been a waiver filed by Cara Kernodle and or possibly
18:23
Speaker 1: eliciting testimony from Carrakernodle to determine the extent of any
18:28
Speaker 1: contact and information relayed to Miss Taylor during the representation. Additionally,
18:35
Speaker 1: the court should have considered the potential for a conflict
18:38
Speaker 1: to arise at different stages of the criminal proceedings based
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Speaker 1: on Miss Taylor's prior representation of any witnesses or parties
18:47
Speaker 1: involved in this matter. Upon gathering this information, the court
18:52
Speaker 1: have first determined whether the sealing the record of the
18:56
Speaker 1: conflict hearing is consistent with openness and public policy. Secondly,
19:01
Speaker 1: the Court should have determined whether sealing the record of
19:04
Speaker 1: the conflict hearing is consistent with the type of hearing
19:08
Speaker 1: being historically that has been open to the press and
19:11
Speaker 1: general public. Finally, the Court would need to have applied
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Speaker 1: I dot C dot A dot R three two I
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Speaker 1: and made a finding of fact regarding the applicable issue
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Speaker 1: and fashion the least restrictive exception consistent with privacy issues.
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Speaker 1: Taking into consideration the information the Court reviewed in this case,
19:33
Speaker 1: which was merely defense counsel and Taylor's testimony to the court,
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Speaker 1: the scope of the information obtained by the Court from
19:41
Speaker 1: Miss Taylor, and the lack of any findings on this matter,
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Speaker 1: the Court must unseal the court record regarding the conflict
19:49
Speaker 1: issues with defense counsel. In applying the above considerations, it
19:54
Speaker 1: is not common to seal records regarding conflict issues of
19:58
Speaker 1: attorneys at this time stage of the criminal proceeding. Conflict
20:02
Speaker 1: issues should be open to the public. This avoids any
20:05
Speaker 1: actual or potential conflicts the Court may not be aware of,
20:10
Speaker 1: and helps ensure any actual or potential conflicts may be avoided.
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Speaker 1: By opening the record to the public, the court can
20:18
Speaker 1: fully analyze all conflicts, not just those recognized by defense counsel.
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Speaker 1: The number of witnesses and the scope of this case
20:27
Speaker 1: is massive, and the possibility of other conflicts regarding defense
20:31
Speaker 1: council should be thoroughly investigated. In applying I dot S
20:35
Speaker 1: dot A dot R thirty two, I, the Court must
20:39
Speaker 1: have made a determination that the record of the conflict
20:41
Speaker 1: issues contained one or more of the following One highly
20:46
Speaker 1: intimate facts or statements the publication of would be highly
20:50
Speaker 1: objectional to a reasonable person. Or two the record contains
20:55
Speaker 1: fact or statements that the Court finds might be libelousts.
20:59
Speaker 1: Or three. Three the record contains facts of statements that
21:03
Speaker 1: may compromise financial security or economic or financial loss to
21:07
Speaker 1: a party having an interest in the preceding Or four
21:11
Speaker 1: the record contains facts or statements that might threaten or
21:15
Speaker 1: endanger the life or safety of individuals. Or five the
21:19
Speaker 1: sealing of the record is necessary to preserve the right
21:22
Speaker 1: to a fair trial, or six, the record contains personal
21:27
Speaker 1: data identifiers that should have been redacted. I cannot see
21:32
Speaker 1: any fact pattern applying the above determinations that would justify
21:36
Speaker 1: the court sealing the records of the conflict matter. In
21:39
Speaker 1: this case, it appears the only testimony given at the
21:43
Speaker 1: hearing was Miss Taylor's. Additionally, the Lata County Prosecutor's office
21:48
Speaker 1: failed to do any due diligence prior to the hearing
21:51
Speaker 1: regarding any conflicts and fail to inquire or object at
21:55
Speaker 1: the time of the hearing to clarify or identify any
21:59
Speaker 1: actual or potential conflicts. The proper remedy for the court,
22:05
Speaker 1: if they believe that protected information had been provided, would
22:09
Speaker 1: have been to redact that information and then provide the
22:12
Speaker 1: full record to the public. Therefore, on behalf of my clients,
22:17
Speaker 1: the Gonsalvas family, we would request that the Court unseal
22:21
Speaker 1: the court record regarding the conflict issues of defense counsel
22:25
Speaker 1: in this matter. This was signed by Shannon L. Gray.
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Speaker 1: All Right, So there is the motion to unseal the
22:34
Speaker 1: court record regarding the conflict issues of the defense council
22:39
Speaker 1: and the memorandum in support of it. All of the
22:43
Speaker 1: information that goes with This episode can be found in
22:46
Speaker 1: the description box and welcome back to the program. There
22:51
Speaker 1: has been much discussion lately about Anne Taylor and the
22:55
Speaker 1: potential for her having a conflict of interest. Now, this
22:59
Speaker 1: all comes on the back of us finding out how
23:03
Speaker 1: much money Anne Teller is going to be making as
23:05
Speaker 1: she defends Brian Coberger, and let's remember she dropped Zana's
23:10
Speaker 1: mom to do so. Of course, that opens up all
23:14
Speaker 1: sorts of questions about her motivations. Obviously, when there's this
23:20
Speaker 1: kind of money on the table, you're gonna want to
23:22
Speaker 1: take the job that pays more, right, I mean, that's
23:25
Speaker 1: only human nature. However, is there a conflict of interest here?
23:30
Speaker 1: That has been the question that has been on everybody's
23:33
Speaker 1: mind since we found this information out, and we have
23:36
Speaker 1: heard from many legal scholars at this point, many lawyers,
23:41
Speaker 1: and just about all of them have had the same
23:43
Speaker 1: opinion that this is a potential conflict of interest. Now,
23:48
Speaker 1: for me, the biggest problem is if Brian Coberger is convicted,
23:53
Speaker 1: him trying to use this as some kind of raft
23:56
Speaker 1: later on when he's about to drown under the death
23:59
Speaker 1: penalty when he's appealing this case and he's going to
24:02
Speaker 1: appeal if he loses, he's going to refer to this
24:06
Speaker 1: conflict of interest as a reason that he's appealing. Now
24:11
Speaker 1: is that going to be effective? Is it going to work?
24:13
Speaker 1: I don't know. But why even give him the option.
24:16
Speaker 1: Why give the option for someone like Brian Koberger to
24:20
Speaker 1: possibly get an appeal due to a technicality. I'll never
24:25
Speaker 1: understand that, especially when the judge knows or should have known,
24:30
Speaker 1: that Ann Taylor represented some of the family members of
24:34
Speaker 1: the slain victims. Well, now we're getting some information from
24:38
Speaker 1: NewsNation that Ann Taylor and Judge Megan Marshall sat down
24:43
Speaker 1: and had a face to face and at that meeting
24:46
Speaker 1: it was decided that it was not a conflict of
24:49
Speaker 1: interest after all. So we're going to discuss that a
24:53
Speaker 1: little bit here in the first part of the show
24:55
Speaker 1: with a short article from NewsNation, and then towards the
24:59
Speaker 1: end of the episode, we're going to talk about some
25:02
Speaker 1: of the crazies out there who are admirers of Brian
25:06
Speaker 1: Coberger's and how there's even a whole ass subreddit forum
25:10
Speaker 1: set up for that purpose. But first, let's talk a
25:14
Speaker 1: little bit more about Brian Coberger's lawyer and Taylor being
25:18
Speaker 1: cleared of a conflict of interest. This article is from
25:23
Speaker 1: news Nation and the headline Brian Coberger's lawyer cleared of conflict.
25:30
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Ashley Banfield and Liz Jason.
25:36
Speaker 1: So it certainly seems to me that NewsNation has the
25:40
Speaker 1: best sources in this case and they're going to provide
25:44
Speaker 1: the best, most detailed amount of information that we can
25:48
Speaker 1: expect with a gag order hanging over the case, and
25:52
Speaker 1: as you can see from the news cycle, it's drying
25:54
Speaker 1: up a little bit as far as information now. Today,
25:58
Speaker 1: I'm expecting some of the core documents to be uploaded
26:01
Speaker 1: and made public, and obviously, once that happens, will have
26:04
Speaker 1: them added to the catalog, and as new information in
26:08
Speaker 1: the case makes itself available, will add it to the
26:11
Speaker 1: catalog as well. But we're at a point right now
26:13
Speaker 1: where things are kind of slow, and you'll see the
26:16
Speaker 1: uploads regarding this case sort of reflect that, right Because
26:21
Speaker 1: I follow the news cycle, I'm not one of these
26:23
Speaker 1: people that makes up news, So wherever the news cycle goes,
26:27
Speaker 1: that's where we're gonna follow. Sources close to the prosecution
26:32
Speaker 1: of Brian Koberger told News Nation that his attorney had
26:36
Speaker 1: a private meeting with a judge and has been cleared
26:40
Speaker 1: of any conflict of interest concerns. Now, I don't know
26:43
Speaker 1: how that's even possible. But again, I'm just some numbnut,
26:47
Speaker 1: certainly not a lawyer, or certainly not somebody who has
26:51
Speaker 1: their finger on the pulse of Idaho law. But it
26:55
Speaker 1: would seem to me that having any roadblocks in the
26:58
Speaker 1: way of Brian Kober not only being convicted, but of actually,
27:02
Speaker 1: you know, being sentenced, would be a good idea. And Taylor,
27:08
Speaker 1: chief of the Cootney County Public Defender's Office, previously represented
27:12
Speaker 1: three family members of two coburgers alleged victims before switching
27:17
Speaker 1: to take his case, according to court records, And to
27:22
Speaker 1: tell you the truth, the more we move forward with this,
27:25
Speaker 1: the more it evolves, the more I'm not really a
27:28
Speaker 1: big fan of Judge Marshall. You would think that you'd
27:31
Speaker 1: reach out to the family members here and ask them
27:33
Speaker 1: what they think. Hey, do you think this is a
27:35
Speaker 1: conflict of interest or is it because they're drug addicts
27:39
Speaker 1: their opinion doesn't matter. That kind of rankles me a
27:42
Speaker 1: little bit, to be honest with you. In the most
27:47
Speaker 1: recent case, drug charges were filed against Karen Northington, the
27:51
Speaker 1: mother of Xana Kernodle, on November nineteenth, six days after
27:55
Speaker 1: her daughter and three others were found dead inside an
27:59
Speaker 1: off campus rental home. Kernodle, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, and
28:04
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin were all stabbed to death in the early
28:07
Speaker 1: morning hours of November thirteenth. Taylor withdrew from Northington's case
28:12
Speaker 1: January fifth, the same day, Coburger made his first court
28:16
Speaker 1: appearance in Moscow. Since Taylor took over the Public Defender's
28:20
Speaker 1: office in twenty seventeen, her office has defended Northington in
28:24
Speaker 1: four cases the Idaho States been reported. And I know
28:28
Speaker 1: there's people out here that are going to talk trash
28:30
Speaker 1: about Karen Northington, and hey, that's fine. I get it,
28:34
Speaker 1: I understand honestly, and I'm not going to sit here
28:36
Speaker 1: and break anyone's balls for doing it. But personally, I
28:41
Speaker 1: have way too many people that I love and care
28:43
Speaker 1: about who have fallen victim to a drug addiction. So
28:46
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't make them bad people. Have they
28:49
Speaker 1: made bad decisions. Absolutely, does the buck stop with them
28:53
Speaker 1: for their addiction, one hundred percent? But does that mean
28:57
Speaker 1: I'm just going to abandon people and Jei's send them
29:00
Speaker 1: to the side of the road and be like, because
29:02
Speaker 1: you're a drug addict, fuck off, No way. People need help.
29:06
Speaker 1: We need to have more resources for people who need
29:08
Speaker 1: that help. And when people refuse to get it and
29:11
Speaker 1: they're obviously addicted to these dangerous and harmful drugs, then
29:16
Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of option for the
29:18
Speaker 1: state to force rehab instead of sending somebody to prison.
29:23
Speaker 1: How about forced rehab. I am heartbroken because I trusted her.
29:28
Speaker 1: Taylor pretended that she was wanting to help me, and
29:32
Speaker 1: to find out that she's representing Coburger, I can't even
29:35
Speaker 1: convey how betrayed I feel, Northington said during an appearance
29:40
Speaker 1: on News Nations Banfield in January. Now, in defense of
29:44
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor, she is a public defender and the only
29:47
Speaker 1: one who can represent a capital murder case in Northern Iowa,
29:52
Speaker 1: so she is doing what her role dictates her due.
29:57
Speaker 1: The court, however, should mandate that's somebody from the South
30:01
Speaker 1: comes up and they should transfer Coburger over to that
30:04
Speaker 1: person so we don't have to deal with any sort
30:06
Speaker 1: of conflict of interest. Attorney Mark Geragos told NewsNation host
30:11
Speaker 1: Ashley Banfield that Taylor shouldn't have been able to represent
30:15
Speaker 1: Coburger without a waiver signed by the parents who were
30:18
Speaker 1: previously represented Buyer, and one signed by Coburger. As much
30:23
Speaker 1: as I think it's ridiculous to defend Coburger after defending
30:27
Speaker 1: the parents, I understand that she's a public defender, right,
30:31
Speaker 1: that's what happens. She's assigned cases. But if I'm reading
30:34
Speaker 1: this here correctly, then that would mean that Brian Koberger
30:37
Speaker 1: is not signing a waiver, and if not, he's going
30:40
Speaker 1: to use this for his appeal. And with the price
30:43
Speaker 1: tag that we already see on this case, and with
30:45
Speaker 1: the misery that the families have already been through, is
30:48
Speaker 1: that a risk that the court in Idaho is willing
30:51
Speaker 1: to take? Well, I guess it is. YEA. When the
30:54
Speaker 1: lawyer Ann Taylor and the judge talked privately, I understand
30:57
Speaker 1: that I've done that many times. Garto said during an
31:01
Speaker 1: appearance on Banfield. I just don't think that there is
31:04
Speaker 1: any way possible that there isn't going to be a
31:06
Speaker 1: discussion of that house, the use of drugs and people
31:11
Speaker 1: going in and out. I just find that entirely too
31:15
Speaker 1: hard to believe. News Nation also learned from someone close
31:19
Speaker 1: to the case that prosecutors support removing Taylor from the case.
31:23
Speaker 1: Leta County will pay Taylor two hundred dollars an hour
31:27
Speaker 1: for a standard work week according to a recent report,
31:30
Speaker 1: So the prosecutors want are gone too. So I don't
31:33
Speaker 1: understand why the prosecutors want are gone. Why there's an
31:37
Speaker 1: obvious conflict here, But the judge is not willing to
31:41
Speaker 1: budge from her perch, even with prosecution on the side
31:45
Speaker 1: of this being a conflict of interest. All right, So
31:49
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for that first article. Like
31:51
Speaker 1: I said, we have a little quick blurb to get
31:53
Speaker 1: to about Brian Koberger's admirers as well. So let's take
31:57
Speaker 1: a look at that real quick from Inside edition headline,
32:01
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger admirers that's plural, by the way, express affection
32:06
Speaker 1: for murder suspect online and even send Valentines Day gifts.
32:11
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine, imagine what's going through the head of
32:14
Speaker 1: somebody who's sitting around standing themselves. Yeah, I think it's
32:17
Speaker 1: a good idea to send Brian Coburger a Valentine's Day gift. Meanwhile,
32:22
Speaker 1: most of these people have their own kids, at home
32:24
Speaker 1: that could probably use an extra gift or two. But
32:27
Speaker 1: now let's blow our money on Brian Cohberger. This article
32:32
Speaker 1: was authored by Chris Spargo. One subreddit is called Brian
32:38
Speaker 1: Nation and it is where one admirer posted the receipt
32:41
Speaker 1: for fifty dollars she placed in Coburger's commissary account as
32:45
Speaker 1: a Valentine's Day gift. A small group of men and
32:49
Speaker 1: women with romantic interests in murder suspect Brian Coberger have
32:54
Speaker 1: formed groups on social media platforms and even started their
32:58
Speaker 1: own subreddit. If anybody out there is listening to this
33:02
Speaker 1: podcast and you're a part of a group like that,
33:05
Speaker 1: do me a favor. Punch yourself directly in the face,
33:09
Speaker 1: because you need some help. That subreddit is called brian Nation,
33:15
Speaker 1: and it is where one admirer posted a receipt she
33:18
Speaker 1: claimed to show that she plays fifty dollars in Coburger's
33:21
Speaker 1: commissary account as a Valentine's Day gift. That user wrote
33:26
Speaker 1: early Valentine's Day gift for Briye hope he enjoys it.
33:30
Speaker 1: You better be careful, Britney Hisslope's not going to be
33:33
Speaker 1: happy about this. You're creeping up on her Man. The
33:37
Speaker 1: comments that followed were mostly from people inquiring how they
33:41
Speaker 1: too might be able to send money to Coburger. Groups
33:45
Speaker 1: of men and women forming romantic interests in alleged and
33:49
Speaker 1: convicted murderers is nothing new, but social media sites like
33:53
Speaker 1: Reddit have made it easier for them to congregate in
33:56
Speaker 1: recent years. And I say that's a good thing. Put
33:59
Speaker 1: all the crazy backs in one place so we can
34:01
Speaker 1: keep an eye on him. Recent posts on Brian Nation
34:05
Speaker 1: include what was it about Brian that got your liking?
34:09
Speaker 1: Are we sick for liking Brian? And do you guys
34:12
Speaker 1: think Brian knows about us? And remember, folks, these are
34:16
Speaker 1: the people we're sharing air with. You're in the movie theater,
34:19
Speaker 1: you might be sitting next to one of them. Oh,
34:20
Speaker 1: you're at your doctor's office, they might be in the
34:22
Speaker 1: waiting room. There is also a poll that asked each
34:27
Speaker 1: member if they were a he bristophiliac. A he bristophiliac
34:31
Speaker 1: is a person who is attracted to criminals. And if
34:34
Speaker 1: you want to see that in real time and an
34:37
Speaker 1: actual car wreck taking place, go ahead and tune into
34:40
Speaker 1: the show Love After lock Up. Coburger is charged with
34:45
Speaker 1: four counts of first degree murder in the deaths of
34:48
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle,
34:54
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. He is currently being held without bail
34:57
Speaker 1: at the Layta County Detention Center ahead of the preliminary
35:01
Speaker 1: hearing in the case, which is scheduled for June. His
35:05
Speaker 1: public defender in Pennsylvania released a statement saying, mister Coburger
35:10
Speaker 1: has been accused of very serious crimes, but the American
35:13
Speaker 1: justice system cloaks him in the veil of innocence. He
35:17
Speaker 1: should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, not tried in
35:21
Speaker 1: the court of public opinion. Well, that's not going to happen.
35:25
Speaker 1: He's going to be tried in the court of public opinion.
35:28
Speaker 1: But the good news for Brian Colberger is he's also
35:31
Speaker 1: going to be tried in a court of law. And
35:33
Speaker 1: that's what's going to matter. Not what anybody says on
35:35
Speaker 1: the internet, not what anybody says in the newspaper. What's
35:39
Speaker 1: going to count is what's said in that court room.
35:43
Speaker 1: All right, folks. Well, there's a couple of updates on
35:46
Speaker 1: a very very slow day surrounding the murders in Moscow
35:50
Speaker 1: and the investigation and the Brian coburger. So we're going
35:54
Speaker 1: to wrap it up right there, and all of the
35:57
Speaker 1: information that goes with the episode can be found in
36:00
Speaker 1: the description Box Airline