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12-year-old girl stabbed & left for dead by 'Besties' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: I don't know how the twins, my twelve year old
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Speaker 1: twins and know about this, but they know who slender
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Speaker 1: Man is. They don't know a lot about him, but
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Speaker 1: they know he's a tall, ghoulish, eerie looking thin, very
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Speaker 1: pale man dressed in a suit, and he gets slaves
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Speaker 1: or minions to follow him. How do they know this? Well,
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Speaker 1: this is what I know about slender Man. The sci
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Speaker 1: fi character was the inspiration for the brutal stabbing assault
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Speaker 1: on a little girl at the hands I've her two
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Speaker 1: so called besties, her best friends. The scary part slender
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Speaker 1: Man lives. This is crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace. Thank
0:56
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace.
1:13
Speaker 1: What's the address your emergency CONI line and transmember? A
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Speaker 1: caller on Big Bend at the dead End just south
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Speaker 1: of RIVERA. Okay, you upon a twelve year old email
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Speaker 1: two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be with stapped, stabbed. Okay,
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Speaker 1: sorry still there? Yes, hi, sir, so is are you
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Speaker 1: with this twelve year old female? Yeah? She says she's
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Speaker 1: having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.
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Speaker 1: They have multiple times? Yeah, Okay, Sir, are you with
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Speaker 1: her right now? Yes? Is she awake? She's awake. Is
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Speaker 1: she breathing? Yeah, she's breathing. She said she can take
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Speaker 1: shallow breath. She's alert. Okay, stay with her. We're sending
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Speaker 1: the police department. Don't hang up. Okay, hold on, JA minute,
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Speaker 1: don't hang up. Okay, okay, well nice minutes that we're
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Speaker 1: setting officers. Is there any assailant around? I didn't even look.
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Speaker 1: I don't see anybody. Okay, stay stay right with her, Sir.
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Speaker 1: Is she on the ground or she standing up? No,
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Speaker 1: she's laying on the grass. Is there any bleeding going on?
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Speaker 1: Her clothing has got blood on it. Where are the wounds?
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Speaker 1: Did you see where the wounds are? No? I don't
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Speaker 1: know if I should be rolling her over and checking
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Speaker 1: or not. Do you know where? Okay, just stay with
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Speaker 1: her and just let me know if she's conscious or
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Speaker 1: alert or stop spreed anthing. Hold on, I'm going to
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Speaker 1: talk to the ambulance. Police are also in route. Okay.
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Speaker 1: So you see any active bleeding or blood spurting out
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Speaker 1: or anything like that. No, unless it's underneath or I
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Speaker 1: just see dried blood. Okay, just dried blood. Okay, you
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Speaker 1: are hearing a nine one one call. That becomes even
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Speaker 1: more chilling when you realize the victim is a twelve
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Speaker 1: year old little girl. I mean, I see grace. This
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Speaker 1: is crib stories. In the Last Days, the victim speaks out.
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Speaker 1: Let's Stour. Friends at t MJ four are told police
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Speaker 1: planning the attack made her scared, but she wanted to
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Speaker 1: prove Slenderman skeptics wrong. I would I would never my
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Speaker 1: family again. I was how Geyser says. The victim Peyton
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Speaker 1: had been her best friend for years. She says she
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Speaker 1: didn't choose Peyton, but went along with it. Leave down
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Speaker 1: her good time. Ima, I am wanting to hurt people before,
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Speaker 1: but they're not nice to me, a little girl saying before,
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Speaker 1: I wanted to hurt people and they deserved it. Two girls,
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Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser and Anissa were Could they possibly have lured
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Speaker 1: their twelve year old little best friend out into the
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Speaker 1: woods and then stabbed her, leaving her for dad. That's
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Speaker 1: what police are reporting, and in the Last Days, the
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Speaker 1: little girl who miraculously survives, Peyton Laudner speaks out, joining
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Speaker 1: me an all star panel. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney
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Speaker 1: in the New York, New Jersey area. Cloyd Steiger, thirty
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Speaker 1: six years of the Seattle Police Department, twenty two years
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Speaker 1: homicide detective, author of Homicide The View from Inside the
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Speaker 1: Yellow Tape. You can find him at Cloyd Steiger dot com.
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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, Renown forensic psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober
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Speaker 1: joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction right now to
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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, take
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Speaker 1: me back to the night this little girl was stabbed
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Speaker 1: multiple times, left for dead, bleeding out, left to quote,
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Speaker 1: bleed out in the woods. You'd think it was a
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Speaker 1: sex offender, a registered sex offender, a pedophile, a maniac.
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Speaker 1: But it turns it's two little girls. Yes. Nancy May
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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, Morgan Geyser is celebrating her birthday. She had
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Speaker 1: turned twelve, and she invited two of her classmates, her
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Speaker 1: friend Peyton Lutner and Anissa Weir, who are also twelve,
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Speaker 1: over to her home. They went skating, They ate frozen yogurt.
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Speaker 1: They had a slumber party. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop
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Speaker 1: right there, Jason Oceans. You know what it is. It's
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Speaker 1: time for the twins birthday parties. Now they want separate parties,
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Speaker 1: separate parties, things like Levi Pace just said Jason, skating,
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Speaker 1: birthday cakes, manicures, pedicures for the little girls, laser tag
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Speaker 1: for the little boys. But this is just like every
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Speaker 1: other kid's birthday party. Jason Oceans. You've got two children,
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Speaker 1: You've lived through it, no doubt about it. And happy
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Speaker 1: birthday to the twins, and the yes challenge has become great.
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Speaker 1: Don't try to butter me up, Jason Oceans. It's attorney.
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Speaker 1: Nothing's going to change. Battle Nancy always the prosecutors, So
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Speaker 1: I mean it makes it worse to me. Joseph Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: You've lived through plenty of trials, as have you. Cloyd Steiger.
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Speaker 1: When it's a wolf in sheep's clothes, Joe Scott that
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Speaker 1: this was supposed to be an innocent, fun birthday party
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Speaker 1: for a little twelve year old girls. I mean, really, yeah,
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Speaker 1: you would think that they'd be completely and totally safe.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, and your defenses are down. Wouldn't you think
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Speaker 1: twelve years old, who's going to expect that this kind
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Speaker 1: of behavior is going to rise up among what would
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Speaker 1: seemly be a few innocent little children. I mean Cloyd
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Speaker 1: Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide detective.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen plenty of twelve year old killers.
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Speaker 1: I'm not proud of it, but I had to do
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Speaker 1: a stint in juvenile But usually they're twelve year old
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Speaker 1: going on twenty five dopers, you know, getting their parents drugs,
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Speaker 1: mental issues that nobody knew about those types of killings
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Speaker 1: by twelve year olds. But two little suburban twelve year
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Speaker 1: old girls having a birthday party. Really, have you ever
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Speaker 1: seen anything like that, Chloy, because I have not. I've
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Speaker 1: never seen a thing of the twelve year old. I've
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Speaker 1: seen something very similar with some like sixteen year old
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Speaker 1: boys were like, you know, not criminal boys that lured
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Speaker 1: one of their friends into the woods and killed them
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Speaker 1: because they're an argument over a girl. But this is
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Speaker 1: really an anomaly. And like I said, I've arrested I
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Speaker 1: think the youngest I've arrested is thirteen, but that was
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Speaker 1: a gang bang thing, you know, and a long history
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Speaker 1: of violence before that, So it's really unusual. A lot
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Speaker 1: different from a little girl sleepover in suburbia. To doctor
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Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, it's like when, let me just compare it
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Speaker 1: to a little low lady you pass in the street
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Speaker 1: and she's got a walk or and she pulls out
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Speaker 1: an oozy on you and takes your money and runs.
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Speaker 1: You don't see it coming that, I'm what am I
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Speaker 1: trying to say? Put it in forensic psychiatric words. Well,
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Speaker 1: I ask you, it's a little bit different than an
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Speaker 1: old lady. A twelve year old doesn't really have the
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Speaker 1: compath to make those types of I'm saying, you don't
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Speaker 1: see it coming, Bober. I know there's a difference in
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Speaker 1: a little old lady and a twelve year old girl.
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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing. Bobra. Yeah, well,
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Speaker 1: I agree with you. You You definitely don't see it coming things.
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Speaker 1: It's not something you would ever see coming. I agree
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Speaker 1: with you on that. Wait, you're the renowned forhysics psychiatrist
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Speaker 1: and you're takeaway is, yeah, Nancy, is something you don't
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Speaker 1: see coming. That's it. I've already said that, doctor Bober.
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Speaker 1: You're gonna have to think of something impressive and psychiatric
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Speaker 1: right now. Well, let me just say that if it
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Speaker 1: was something we would see coming, then this wouldn't even
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Speaker 1: be a story that we'd be talking about. But the point,
8:37
Speaker 1: but my point is is that it's something that you
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Speaker 1: would not expect that of a twelve year old, but
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Speaker 1: when it happens, it's something that you is explainable by
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Speaker 1: the fact that they don't really have the capacity to
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Speaker 1: waigh the future consequences of their actions. Well, you're certainly
8:53
Speaker 1: right about that, Levi pagec. All you had to do
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Speaker 1: was say skating rink and everything went sideways. Let's just
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Speaker 1: go back to the party. What happened. So the night
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Speaker 1: they had a sleepover, and after the sleepover, in the morning,
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Speaker 1: the three girls went to the park. They went for
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Speaker 1: a walk, and this was Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weir's
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Speaker 1: idea to go for a walk. So they went out
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Speaker 1: into the woods and while they were in the woods,
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Speaker 1: they were playing hide and seek, or they were pretending
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Speaker 1: to play hide and seek, and they told Peyton Lautner
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Speaker 1: to lay down in the in the leaves and that
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Speaker 1: they were going to hide. Well, instead, Morgan Geyser pulled
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Speaker 1: out a knife and stabbed her nineteen times. And this
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Speaker 1: is after they have as spend the night with a
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Speaker 1: little girl. The three of them besties take a listen
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Speaker 1: to our friend David Muir at ABC twenty twenty with
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Speaker 1: Angie Geysers, Morgan's mom. It's Friday night in Waukesha, Wisconsin,
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Speaker 1: a Milwaukee suburb. Peyton is getting ready to celebrate her
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Speaker 1: best friend, Morgan Geyser's birthday. At that slumber party, Peyton
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Speaker 1: was so so excited. The girls met in fourth grade.
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Speaker 1: Peyton drawn to Morgan because she was a loner who
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Speaker 1: needed a friend. I made friends with her when I
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Speaker 1: saw that she didn't have any friends at all. Also
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Speaker 1: at that sleepover, Anisa Wire, who was new to the
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Speaker 1: school and who had grown close to Morgan. They laid
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Speaker 1: up in Morgan's s bedroom, ran up and down the stairs,
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Speaker 1: giggling and laughing, and I mean it was just a
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Speaker 1: normal knife, but there was nothing normal about what happened.
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Speaker 1: The next morning, when Morgan and Anissa suggest they all
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Speaker 1: go to the park and then to the woods together,
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Speaker 1: Anissa told me to lie on the ground and like
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Speaker 1: cover myself and like sticks and leaves and stuff, But
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Speaker 1: it was really just a trick while playing hide and seek.
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Speaker 1: Then came a niece's command, and Morgan attacks Peyton with
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Speaker 1: a knife. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace be afraid. I'm
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Speaker 1: a real a little kitty Hatch jumped Fellas shot her
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Speaker 1: and do you remember when it started? Kind of I
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Speaker 1: didn't feel anything because my body was in shock, so
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Speaker 1: they told me to lay down, you'll lose blood. Slower like,
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Speaker 1: we're gonna go get help and try to get off.
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Speaker 1: She couldn't walk and that she couldn't breathe, and they
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Speaker 1: told her they were gonna go get her help, but
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Speaker 1: Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't getting to help. We
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Speaker 1: wanted her to die. It. Got up and then just
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Speaker 1: walked until I hit a patch of grass where I
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Speaker 1: can lay down. A bicyclist notices Peyton bloodied and lying
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Speaker 1: in the grass. He calls nine one one. You're hearing
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Speaker 1: our friends at ABC twenty twenty. That was David. We
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Speaker 1: were with Peyton along with Detective trus Sony. Did you
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Speaker 1: notice Joseph's got Morgan that the little victim, the twelve
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Speaker 1: year old Peyton says, oh, by the way, when you
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Speaker 1: hear them refer to Bella, that's her nickname. Peyton's nickname
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Speaker 1: is Bella. Did you hear her say I didn't feel anything?
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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Well? That means and she's actually
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Speaker 1: in some of her interviews she's gone on to say
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Speaker 1: that she was in shock. And I'm sure that that's
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Speaker 1: what's been conveyed to her because she would have asked, well,
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Speaker 1: why didn't I feel anything. It's a primal response that
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Speaker 1: we have to being attacked like this. And Nancy, this
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Speaker 1: little girl will stab nineteen times over a variety of
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Speaker 1: areas in her body, so after a period of time,
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Speaker 1: the body is beginning to shut down just so that
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Speaker 1: she's not going to feel this response. Man, I've always
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Speaker 1: heard of your body going into shock and you don't
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Speaker 1: feel things. You know, Jason, you and I've discussed this
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Speaker 1: many many times. Jason oceans with me, veteran defense attorney
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Speaker 1: in the Tristate area, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Jason,
12:50
Speaker 1: I always wondered about my fiance when he was murdered.
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Speaker 1: You know, he was shot five times in the neck
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Speaker 1: that faced the head. I always hoped that he went
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Speaker 1: into shock and didn't understand or know what was happening,
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Speaker 1: that he was alive and then he was gone. But
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Speaker 1: I also know that when he got to the hospital,
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Speaker 1: even after all that, he was physically still alive. His
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Speaker 1: heart was still beating. So I guess it's a blessing
13:19
Speaker 1: when people physically go into shock, for sure. Nancy, you know,
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Speaker 1: as the doctor said that that's a natural reaction, and
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Speaker 1: you know, you listen to the testimony of and you're
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Speaker 1: just you're shocked as well. You know, she reacted that way,
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Speaker 1: and the twelve year old scenario of what happened to her.
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Speaker 1: She explains it the only natural and in some way
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Speaker 1: a blessing that she doesn't feel that physical pain of
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Speaker 1: being stabbed nineteen times. You know, I've noticed it with
13:51
Speaker 1: my daughter, Doctor Daniel Bibram a little Lucy the other day,
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Speaker 1: we tried, what a scene to take fat Boy for
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Speaker 1: a walk. I even had him on a leash. Somehow
14:02
Speaker 1: he wiggled out. He's the Docs and mix. He wiggled
14:05
Speaker 1: out of the leash. He took off running and got
14:08
Speaker 1: between two rot wilders. He started the fight with two
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Speaker 1: rot wilders in between them, and I immediately take off,
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Speaker 1: which was completely wrong, but I instinctively tried to pull
14:19
Speaker 1: him out from between the two rot wilders who basically
14:21
Speaker 1: just ignored him, thank goodness. But he was, I guess,
14:24
Speaker 1: fighting with himself, trying to egg them on. But I
14:27
Speaker 1: turned back quickly because I yelled at the children, stay away,
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Speaker 1: go back, don't don't come over here. Lucy had just frozen.
14:35
Speaker 1: She was still standing in the same position, holding the
14:39
Speaker 1: leash in her hand, dangling. John David was jumping up
14:43
Speaker 1: and down, yelling and running around in circles and trying
14:45
Speaker 1: to come over. But Lucy froze. And I've noticed that,
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Speaker 1: doctor Bober, what is that instinct when you are in
14:52
Speaker 1: shot and just freeze? Well, Nancy, they talked about fight
14:56
Speaker 1: or flay, but it's really fight, flate or freeze, and
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Speaker 1: that's the freeze. And the freeze is sort of what
15:01
Speaker 1: we called dissociation, where you're disconnected from your thoughts and
15:04
Speaker 1: your emotions when you become too overwhelmed. That's what it is.
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Speaker 1: Floyd Siger with me twenty two years homicide detective, an
15:11
Speaker 1: author of Homicide The View from Inside the Yellow Tape. Cloyd,
15:15
Speaker 1: have you seen that on criminal scenes before, where witnesses
15:18
Speaker 1: defenditis victims just freeze in the moment. I have several times,
15:22
Speaker 1: and I've also talked to a lot of people who
15:24
Speaker 1: have been stabbed and survived, and they said the same thing.
15:26
Speaker 1: They didn't even know they were being stabbed. They thought
15:28
Speaker 1: they were just being punched. And you know, fortunately I
15:32
Speaker 1: could talk to some parents of a young girl that
15:34
Speaker 1: was stabbed to death and tell them she probably didn't
15:37
Speaker 1: suffer before she died, and that made a lot to
15:39
Speaker 1: them because it is, I mean here all the time
15:42
Speaker 1: I put it over my entire career. I didn't even
15:45
Speaker 1: know it's being stabbed. I just thought it's being punished.
15:47
Speaker 1: So I mean, that is a blessing. I've heard it too.
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Speaker 1: I have heard that too. Well, that is what this
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Speaker 1: little girl was saying, that she didn't feel anything at
15:55
Speaker 1: the beginning. Listen, do you remember leaving the park to
15:58
Speaker 1: go to the woods. They just wanted to a goal
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Speaker 1: on a walk and I didn't think much of it.
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Speaker 1: It's just a walk. It's in Waka Shot, Like what
16:05
Speaker 1: bad stuff happens in Waka Shaw, Wisconsin. We're going to
16:11
Speaker 1: play hie and Lisa told me to lie on the
16:14
Speaker 1: ground and like cover myself in like sticks and leaves
16:17
Speaker 1: and stuff. But it was really just a trick. I
16:20
Speaker 1: br and they you and I whatever when you say
16:27
Speaker 1: you want to I away. I've been now, I remember,
16:35
Speaker 1: go crazy. Thank you? Yeah, what did you do that?
16:41
Speaker 1: You told you that. When you hear them describe to
16:50
Speaker 1: investigators and he's telling Morgan just to do it. I
16:54
Speaker 1: think the word was gobalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
16:57
Speaker 1: do remember them chatting right next to me while I
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Speaker 1: was just laying there, stabbed nineteen times and left by
17:05
Speaker 1: her attackers to quote, bleed out dead in the woods.
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Speaker 1: The shock. Her attackers are two other twelve year old
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Speaker 1: little girls. In the last days, the victim, who miraculously
17:17
Speaker 1: survived her mom says. Doctors claim that they found one
17:22
Speaker 1: of the stab wounds about an eighth of an inch
17:26
Speaker 1: from one of her arteries, an eighth of an inch
17:31
Speaker 1: between life and death. How could two twelve year old
17:35
Speaker 1: little besties do something like this? Listen to our friend
17:40
Speaker 1: David Muir with Peyton after the stab. The name contains
17:43
Speaker 1: the encourage you just lay down in the woods and rest.
17:46
Speaker 1: For what they really wanted are going to do was
17:47
Speaker 1: bleed out in the woods. And do you remember what
17:49
Speaker 1: you said to them? I trusted you, and then they
17:53
Speaker 1: told me to lay down. You'll lose blood slower if
17:55
Speaker 1: we're gonna go get help. She couldn't walk and that
18:04
Speaker 1: she couldn't and they told her they were gonna go
18:07
Speaker 1: get her help, but Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't
18:09
Speaker 1: getting help. We wanted her to die. Do you remember
18:15
Speaker 1: the moment they left you? I think I remember them
18:17
Speaker 1: running away, but I kind of just lay there for
18:21
Speaker 1: a minute. You walked out of the woods, it, got up,
18:23
Speaker 1: grabbed a couple of trees for support, I think, and
18:25
Speaker 1: then just walked until I hit a patch of grass
18:28
Speaker 1: where I could lay down. It's amazing that she had
18:32
Speaker 1: the strength to do that with the injuries that she had.
18:35
Speaker 1: When I told her that the girls were in custody,
18:38
Speaker 1: it seemed to give her a sense of relief. The
18:40
Speaker 1: girls were ultimately arrested for first degree at Tom Thomas side.
18:44
Speaker 1: That's a very serious charge. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
19:06
Speaker 1: it wasn't until we sat down and we started talking
19:08
Speaker 1: with the girls that we really knew what was going
19:10
Speaker 1: on that it was two twelve year old girls had
19:13
Speaker 1: a planned for six months to kill their friends. You
19:15
Speaker 1: don't often see this with adults, and to have this
19:18
Speaker 1: happened between twelve year old is absolutely horrifying. Yeah, where
19:24
Speaker 1: are you body now, Um, I thought it was still
19:32
Speaker 1: stopped it crime. Did you think that she died? Yeah,
19:40
Speaker 1: she is alive. Have you ever watched any of those interrogations.
19:44
Speaker 1: I watched a little bit, but we should reaction. It
19:48
Speaker 1: was a little shocking to me to see that they
19:51
Speaker 1: had this big, huge plan that they had been working
19:55
Speaker 1: on for months. A big, huge plan they had been
19:58
Speaker 1: working on for months. A little girl has to spend
20:01
Speaker 1: the night birthday party where there are other twelve year
20:04
Speaker 1: old friends. The three of them go for a walk
20:07
Speaker 1: and the two friends Marketing Geyser and Anissa were execute
20:11
Speaker 1: a long planned scheme to murder Peyton lawn Or just
20:16
Speaker 1: twelve years old, also known as Bella. You were hearing
20:21
Speaker 1: our friend David Murror at twenty twenty speaking because in
20:25
Speaker 1: the last days Peyton speaks out a huge plan that
20:31
Speaker 1: they had for months. But why listen? This is where
20:35
Speaker 1: the story takes another turn to a fictional character on
20:39
Speaker 1: the internet that is all back now. A niece to
21:15
Speaker 1: explained to me that to prove yourself worthy to slender
21:18
Speaker 1: you would have to kill somebody. You have to kill
21:24
Speaker 1: someone to go live with slender Man. You're hearing our
21:27
Speaker 1: friend David murror and detectives during the investigation of the
21:33
Speaker 1: attempt to stab little twelve year old Bella dead. Welcome
21:38
Speaker 1: back home, Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you
21:40
Speaker 1: for being with us. Leavi page with me crime online
21:43
Speaker 1: dot com investigative journalist who is slender Man. So this
21:48
Speaker 1: is a fictional character, Nancy, that is very prevalent in
21:52
Speaker 1: creepy pasta communities and creepy pasta communities is like horror
21:57
Speaker 1: stories that people tell on form like Reddit. It's very
22:01
Speaker 1: popular there. And this is a guy that someone drew
22:05
Speaker 1: an artist and he has a featureless face. He's tall, thin,
22:08
Speaker 1: he's often wearing a suit. He looks very ghost like,
22:13
Speaker 1: and he likes to stalk and traumatize children in these
22:16
Speaker 1: creepy pasta stories. He also uses mind control to tell
22:21
Speaker 1: them what to do. And apparently Morgan Geyser was obsessed
22:25
Speaker 1: with slender Man. When law enforcement got a search warrant
22:29
Speaker 1: for her room, they found drawings of slender Man. She
22:33
Speaker 1: had researched him on the internet, had read creepy pasta
22:37
Speaker 1: stories about him, and they also found that she had
22:40
Speaker 1: been thinking about murder for a long time because months
22:45
Speaker 1: in advance of this attack, she had searched on the
22:48
Speaker 1: internet how to get away with murder. Well, there's everything
22:51
Speaker 1: you need to show premeditation. To defense attorney Jason Oceans,
22:56
Speaker 1: the girls tell police they were convinced murder their little
23:01
Speaker 1: friend Peyton Lawtner known as Bella by slender Man. Slender
23:06
Speaker 1: Man's not real, Jason, He's fictional. And how can both
23:10
Speaker 1: girls have the same psychiatric delusion at the same time.
23:16
Speaker 1: That's the same thing I keep talking about all of
23:18
Speaker 1: Epstein's guards in the jail. How can they all fall
23:21
Speaker 1: asleep at the same time and leave him to be
23:25
Speaker 1: found dead? How can two little girls have the same
23:29
Speaker 1: psychiatric break with reality? This was just their excuse for
23:34
Speaker 1: murdering their little friend. They are murderers, and Nancy I
23:40
Speaker 1: analogize this type of you know, mind control that the
23:46
Speaker 1: young lady placed in the slender Man character to you know,
23:51
Speaker 1: Jim Jones or any cult or David Koresh where people
23:55
Speaker 1: are willing to not only to sacrifice themselves but their
23:58
Speaker 1: children in belief. And those are adults, right, brain formed
24:01
Speaker 1: out all the way by twenty two right and uh,
24:04
Speaker 1: and these are adults with children, and you would think,
24:06
Speaker 1: my god, you know, sacrifice yourself. How do you do
24:09
Speaker 1: your children? It is it does shock the conscience that
24:13
Speaker 1: this happened. Um and and and clearly from you know,
24:18
Speaker 1: monitoring your children and you know, creepy pasta stories because
24:24
Speaker 1: they're creepy with fun, but noticing some differences in your children.
24:29
Speaker 1: We've being withdrawn or you know, just something more sinister. Uh,
24:34
Speaker 1: is the responsibility of parenting. You can't just be disengaged
24:38
Speaker 1: when your child has been having seemingly these thoughts, murderous
24:42
Speaker 1: thoughts for so long. You've got to see a change
24:45
Speaker 1: in your child. You just can't be an absenteep arrand
24:48
Speaker 1: what about it? Do Dodger Daniel Bober joining me forensic
24:51
Speaker 1: psychiatrists out of the Florida jurisdiction. Apparently the parents knew nothing,
24:55
Speaker 1: had no idea anything was going on with their children. Yeah, Nancy,
25:00
Speaker 1: you see this a lot. For example, I remember during
25:02
Speaker 1: the Columbine shootings, parents had no idea that that Klebold
25:07
Speaker 1: and Harris were stockpiling weapons in their own garage, Like,
25:10
Speaker 1: they never bothered to check that there were weapons being
25:12
Speaker 1: stockpiling their garage. So, unfortunately, this is something that happens
25:16
Speaker 1: with parents. They just kind of give their kids. These
25:19
Speaker 1: electronic babysitters like cell phones, and they are not really
25:22
Speaker 1: paying attention to what's going on. But in regards to
25:26
Speaker 1: what you said before, yes, of course the kids did
25:28
Speaker 1: not have the same delusion. But sometimes when you get
25:31
Speaker 1: two kids together and one of them has a more
25:34
Speaker 1: dominant personality and more dominant traits, they will lead the
25:38
Speaker 1: weaker kid to go along with their plan, even though
25:42
Speaker 1: it's not something they would have done on their own.
25:43
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. I've never gone into an
25:46
Speaker 1: interview so blind as I am in this one. I
25:49
Speaker 1: thought that maybe this was all about a boy. This
25:51
Speaker 1: is a fight about a boy. Okay, we didn't know
26:00
Speaker 1: what these girls were going to tell us. What were
26:03
Speaker 1: you trying to do with her? When you stand her
26:06
Speaker 1: kill her? I'm right as to say it. We were
26:09
Speaker 1: trying to kill her? Why did you pick? I didn't
26:12
Speaker 1: you picture? Who? Picture whatever? I needed to were talking about?
26:19
Speaker 1: My thought was why would she do this? Let's say, like,
26:29
Speaker 1: who the heck is slender Man? To think that tune
26:35
Speaker 1: twelve year olds would come up with something like this
26:38
Speaker 1: and plan it out for six months. As soon as
26:40
Speaker 1: I heard I knew that this was going to be
26:43
Speaker 1: a Big Deal Clime Stories with Nancy Grace over my radio.
27:02
Speaker 1: I heard that a twelve year old girl had been
27:04
Speaker 1: stabbed about a mile and a half away from this location.
27:07
Speaker 1: At one momentum Triends, remember, a caller on Big Ben
27:10
Speaker 1: came upon a twelve year old email two peers of
27:13
Speaker 1: me stabbed. She peers to be what stab stabbed. The
27:17
Speaker 1: road that she was located on was Big Ben Road
27:20
Speaker 1: at the dead end of that Peyton wasn't moving a
27:24
Speaker 1: whole lot. As I approached her, I said, Hi, I'm
27:27
Speaker 1: off sir Dan. Are you okay? And she said no,
27:32
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, help is on the way. Just
27:34
Speaker 1: stay right where you are. And as I got closer,
27:36
Speaker 1: I started to see a little bit more blood, And
27:39
Speaker 1: the closer I got, the more blood I saw. Somehow
27:41
Speaker 1: she'd been able to pull herself out of those woods,
27:44
Speaker 1: and in another moment of strength, she was able to
27:48
Speaker 1: communicate with him. I asked her who did this, and
27:51
Speaker 1: she told me her friend Morgan. I then asked her
27:55
Speaker 1: where did this happen and she told me that happened
27:57
Speaker 1: in the woods. She was the first one to reveal
28:02
Speaker 1: that it was Morgan, her best friend, who was behind this.
28:05
Speaker 1: You're hearing Officer Dan Klein speaking with twenty twenties David Muir.
28:10
Speaker 1: Right now, these two girls, Morgan Geyser and Anissa were
28:14
Speaker 1: in a mental institution, but now appealing that conviction. Are
28:22
Speaker 1: they set to be released? Levi Page Crime Online dot
28:26
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Levi. When the search warrant was executed
28:31
Speaker 1: on Geyser and War's homes, what was found? So I
28:35
Speaker 1: mentioned about the Internet searches on Morgan's computer that said
28:39
Speaker 1: how to get away with murder? They had also found
28:42
Speaker 1: mutilated dolls in her room that had the body parts
28:47
Speaker 1: cut off of them. Oh, dear Lord in heaven did
28:50
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, an author
28:55
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan,
28:59
Speaker 1: this is right up your alley, speaking of forensics. Yeah, well, Nancy,
29:03
Speaker 1: let me go to something real quick that you know,
29:05
Speaker 1: we've talked about this, this obsession that these girls have
29:09
Speaker 1: with slender Man, and they're doing his bidding and living
29:13
Speaker 1: in this fantastical world where they're you know, they've got
29:17
Speaker 1: to make some kind of I don't know, sacrifice this guy.
29:20
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what's based in reality. What's based
29:22
Speaker 1: in reality is this poor girl was subject to being
29:26
Speaker 1: stabbed by five blade of five inches in length, and
29:30
Speaker 1: she stabbed nineteen times. Nancy, her liver was actually clipped.
29:34
Speaker 1: It passed through her pancreas it passed through her diaphragm,
29:39
Speaker 1: and she was very close to dying. You know, I
29:41
Speaker 1: did a calculation just a moment ago. Let's just say
29:43
Speaker 1: that she only weighed eighty pounds twelve years old. You know,
29:48
Speaker 1: she's gotten less than a gallon of blood in her body.
29:51
Speaker 1: It is an absolute miracle that she survived. And I'm
29:56
Speaker 1: just talking about the organs, not to mention all the
29:58
Speaker 1: little peripheral stab wounds that she's just she had an
30:01
Speaker 1: angel on her shoulder at that time. The injuries done
30:04
Speaker 1: to this twelve year old little girl are overwhelming. But
30:08
Speaker 1: listen to this after we're in geyser or tell detectives
30:13
Speaker 1: they had to kill Bella to become Slender Man's servants.
30:18
Speaker 1: We now know that when the jury decided the little
30:22
Speaker 1: girls were mentally insane, we had a mental defect. This
30:27
Speaker 1: means that every six months they can petition the court
30:33
Speaker 1: to be released. Every six months, according to the victim's mom.
30:40
Speaker 1: She says, the potential release of an assilla that methodically
30:44
Speaker 1: planned and executed an attack on our little girl where
30:48
Speaker 1: she was stabbed nineteen times puts the community and our
30:51
Speaker 1: family at risk. Leave page. As a matter of fact,
30:56
Speaker 1: they are appealing their treatment as an adults. Isn't that right?
31:01
Speaker 1: You're correct, Nancy, But I'm wondering how that's going to
31:04
Speaker 1: work out because they pleaded guilty. Anissa Weir took a
31:08
Speaker 1: plea deal, and she put pleading guilty to a lesser
31:12
Speaker 1: charge of attempted second degree intentional homicide as part of
31:16
Speaker 1: her deal. A jury would hear her in insanity defense.
31:21
Speaker 1: Then they were going to decide on whether or not
31:23
Speaker 1: she would be responsible and sent to prison. Are not
31:27
Speaker 1: guilty by a reason of a mental defect and sent
31:29
Speaker 1: to a mental institution. They wanted to send her to
31:33
Speaker 1: a mental institution so she didn't get sent to prison.
31:36
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, a jury found her not guilty by
31:40
Speaker 1: reason of a mental disease or defect and was sentenced
31:44
Speaker 1: to a twenty five year commitment into a state institution.
31:49
Speaker 1: And Morgan Geyser's lawyers also made a similar deal. She
31:53
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to attempted first degree intentional homicide, and prosecutors
31:58
Speaker 1: agreed as part of this not to challenge her insanity defense.
32:02
Speaker 1: And she was sentenced to forty years in a mental institution.
32:06
Speaker 1: So how do you appeal something that you agreed to
32:09
Speaker 1: as part of a plea deal. Well, you're actually correct
32:12
Speaker 1: on that. In Jason Oceans, what they're arguing is they
32:15
Speaker 1: should not have had a jury trial, a ben's trial,
32:18
Speaker 1: or even a plea in adult court. That's correct, Nancy.
32:22
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm just still torn as defense counsel
32:27
Speaker 1: and father between these, you know, these two parallels, And
32:32
Speaker 1: I guess the part of me that says that they're
32:34
Speaker 1: not in prison but in a mental mental institution seems
32:37
Speaker 1: to me more appropriate at this point in juncture. You know,
32:41
Speaker 1: we can look at it again and see about mental rehabilitation,
32:45
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't want them in population, even segregated. And
32:50
Speaker 1: I think the ability to get mental health because at
32:53
Speaker 1: twelve years old, to be lured into or dominated by
32:57
Speaker 1: another twelve year old into evil, to me, shocks the system.
33:01
Speaker 1: And for the older one, morgan more dominant in the
33:06
Speaker 1: in the entire process and planning it out, and the
33:08
Speaker 1: mutilated dolls. Yeah, an appropriate sentence. I'm just shocked. I
33:15
Speaker 1: am too, and I hope this appeal doesn't work. DEPLOYD. Steiger,
33:20
Speaker 1: twenty two years homicide detective, author of Homicide The view
33:24
Speaker 1: from inside the Yellow Tape. When you commit a murder
33:28
Speaker 1: at age twelve, or in this case, attempted murder, that's
33:34
Speaker 1: a tough sell to be released back out into the community,
33:36
Speaker 1: because if you're homicidal at that age, what are you
33:39
Speaker 1: going to be like at twenty one. Yeah, that's just
33:41
Speaker 1: the question. I mean, it really puts people at risk.
33:44
Speaker 1: But first of all, I also wanted to say that
33:46
Speaker 1: this police department, which is a relatively small policepartment, probably
33:50
Speaker 1: not very experienced at homicide. They did a great job
33:52
Speaker 1: from the patrol officer getting there asking appropriate questions, and
33:55
Speaker 1: great job by both the detectives and their interviews and
33:57
Speaker 1: the techniques they use, and the casualness in the setting
34:00
Speaker 1: of the room. So, I mean, you know, people from
34:03
Speaker 1: big cities New York, Los Angeles, they don't expect to
34:07
Speaker 1: have a case like this, but when it is in
34:09
Speaker 1: a suburban, smaller town, you think to be overwhelmed. But
34:13
Speaker 1: they came, they stepped to the plate, But you're right
34:15
Speaker 1: about that. I mean, how much risk you gonna take?
34:18
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a grandfather little girls, you know, I
34:21
Speaker 1: wouldn't want them around anybody like this. So it's just
34:24
Speaker 1: it's just a terrible case all the way around. Take
34:26
Speaker 1: a listen to Peyton the victim, also known as Bella,
34:30
Speaker 1: as she speaks out. Have you ever watched any of
34:32
Speaker 1: those interrogations. I watched a little bit. What was your reaction.
34:37
Speaker 1: It was a little shocking to me to see that
34:40
Speaker 1: they had this big, huge plan that they had been
34:44
Speaker 1: working on for months. Do you remember leaving the park
34:47
Speaker 1: to go to the woods. They just wanted to go
34:50
Speaker 1: on a walk, and I didn't think much of it.
34:53
Speaker 1: It's just a walk. It's in Wakashaw, Like what bad
34:55
Speaker 1: stuff happens in Wakashaw, Wisconsin. And Lisa told me to
34:59
Speaker 1: lie on the ground owned and like cover myself in
35:01
Speaker 1: like sticks and leaves and stuff. But it was really
35:04
Speaker 1: just a trick. When you hear them describe to investigators
35:09
Speaker 1: and he'sa telling Morgan just to do it, I think
35:12
Speaker 1: that the word was globalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
35:15
Speaker 1: do remember them chatting right next to me while I
35:18
Speaker 1: was just lying there, and do you remember when it started?
35:22
Speaker 1: Kind Of I didn't feel anything because my body was
35:26
Speaker 1: in shock from the adrenaline. I didn't feel a thing.
35:29
Speaker 1: Do you remember the moment they left you? I think
35:32
Speaker 1: I remember them running away, but I kind of just
35:35
Speaker 1: lay there for a minute. You walked out of the woods.
35:38
Speaker 1: It got up, grabbed a couple of trees for support,
35:40
Speaker 1: I think, and then just walked until I hit a
35:43
Speaker 1: patch of grass where I could lay down. Wow to
35:46
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel bober Or forensics psychia just joining us, what
35:50
Speaker 1: would be the prospects of these two girls would be
35:53
Speaker 1: killers ever becoming anything less than a threat if they
36:01
Speaker 1: are released? Nancy, I totally agree with you. I'm sorry
36:04
Speaker 1: I strike that I totally disagree with you. The brain
36:08
Speaker 1: of a twelve year old, I believe that's what you
36:10
Speaker 1: call a Freudian slip. But go ahead. The brain of
36:13
Speaker 1: a twelve year old is just not the brain of
36:15
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old. And the science is not
36:17
Speaker 1: consistent with what you guys are saying. For example, children
36:21
Speaker 1: who display what we call conduct disorder behavior, two thirds
36:24
Speaker 1: of them do not go on, I repeat, do not
36:26
Speaker 1: go on to become anti social. So a twelve year
36:29
Speaker 1: old committing a murder. Wait a minute, wait, what did
36:32
Speaker 1: you say conduct disorder? It's what we call conduct disorder.
36:35
Speaker 1: It's sort of the forerunner. Does that include stabbing deaths?
36:39
Speaker 1: I agree that a stabbing. I mean, you're making it
36:42
Speaker 1: sound like she just threw a tantrum in the floor
36:44
Speaker 1: of target. No, that's not what happened. But that's actually
36:47
Speaker 1: that would actually be more oppositional behavior. But the point
36:50
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is you can't say that someone
36:53
Speaker 1: who's twelve who commits a murder at twenty five is
36:56
Speaker 1: going to be a menace to society because there are
36:58
Speaker 1: a totally different person. Did they have a totally different
37:01
Speaker 1: brain at twenty five than they did at age twelve? Well,
37:04
Speaker 1: you know, there may not be much we can do
37:06
Speaker 1: about it, because one of the girls who pled guilty
37:08
Speaker 1: to stabbing her little twelve year old friend nineteen times
37:11
Speaker 1: and leaving her for dead to please a pretend character
37:16
Speaker 1: named slender Man has appealed. We believe that that appeal,
37:22
Speaker 1: if granted, could end in the reversal of the sentence
37:26
Speaker 1: or the conviction. The basis of the appeal, we believe,
37:31
Speaker 1: is going to be that the girls should not have
37:34
Speaker 1: been handled, whether it's a plea of bens trial or
37:37
Speaker 1: a jury trial in adult court. But I do know
37:41
Speaker 1: that what happened has changed Peyton Lawtner the victim's life forever.
37:47
Speaker 1: One of the things I will never forget from this
37:50
Speaker 1: interview with Peyton Latner all these years later is what
37:53
Speaker 1: she said to me when I asked, what would you
37:55
Speaker 1: say to Morgan Geyser if you saw her today, if
37:59
Speaker 1: she saw the interview, what would you want to say
38:02
Speaker 1: to her? There's a lot that I would want to
38:05
Speaker 1: say to her. I would probably initially thank her. I
38:09
Speaker 1: would say, because of what she did, I have the
38:13
Speaker 1: life I have now, which I really really like it.
38:16
Speaker 1: You do know that when people hear you say I
38:18
Speaker 1: would probably thank her that they're going to be surprised. Yeah,
38:23
Speaker 1: I'm surprised to hear myself say that. Why because I
38:27
Speaker 1: wouldn't think that someone who went through what I did
38:30
Speaker 1: would ever say that. But that's truly how I feel
38:34
Speaker 1: like without the whole situation, I wouldn't be who I
38:38
Speaker 1: am stronger. Well, I hear what the little victim is
38:43
Speaker 1: saying now, but I also know she still sleeps with
38:46
Speaker 1: scissors under her pillow and can't openly make friends or
38:53
Speaker 1: trust anyone. After lying on the forest floor, bleeding out
38:58
Speaker 1: near death, wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
39:04
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,