Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1284 - Building & Strengthening Resilience With Tim Curtis

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#1284 - Building & Strengthening Resilience With Tim Curtis · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: For the last several years, resilience has been the buzzword.
0:10
Speaker 1: How do we help our kids to be resilient? And
0:13
Speaker 1: there's a good reason for it. Resilience is on the
0:16
Speaker 1: way down. We're seeing more and more data that's creating
0:19
Speaker 1: more and more concern around how our children are backing
0:22
Speaker 1: up when things get challenging. Do they have the grit,
0:25
Speaker 1: the distermination, the persistence. Do they have the flexibility and
0:28
Speaker 1: the adaptability? Today and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
0:32
Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every Day. This is Australia's most downloaded
0:35
Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name is doctor Justin Colson, and today
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Speaker 1: I'm having a chat with a guy who I think
0:41
Speaker 1: has a few things to share with us about how
0:43
Speaker 1: to build resilient kids. His name is Tim Curtis. Tim's
0:46
Speaker 1: personal journey has very much shaped what he understands resilience
0:50
Speaker 1: to be. I want to share this buier with you
0:52
Speaker 1: because I think that it's well, it's out of the
0:54
Speaker 1: ordinary and there's got to absolutely be some things here
0:57
Speaker 1: that you and your kids will benefit from. Tim grew
0:59
Speaker 1: up in a military family. He experienced constant change, new cities,
1:02
Speaker 1: new schools, and new neighborhoods, and a need to adapt
1:04
Speaker 1: to all of those new environments. He faced challenges like bullying,
1:08
Speaker 1: being heartbroken, and the occasional teenage brawl, but he didn't
1:12
Speaker 1: let this define him. Indeed, his childhood experience has culminated
1:15
Speaker 1: in him receiving a military scholarship and spending sixteen years
1:19
Speaker 1: in the Army, including the elite sas the Special Air
1:23
Speaker 1: Service Regiment, where he learned the essence of performing under pressure.
1:27
Speaker 1: We haven't had too many military folks on this podcast
1:30
Speaker 1: over the years, and I'm always in awe of the
1:32
Speaker 1: work that they do and the way that they perform
1:34
Speaker 1: a duty to this country that very, very few people
1:37
Speaker 1: are willing to do it. I'm always staggered by what
1:40
Speaker 1: they're willing to do. But beyond his military careers, him
1:42
Speaker 1: has led cross cultural teams in some of the world's
1:44
Speaker 1: most challenging environments. He's witnessed the depths of human suffering,
1:47
Speaker 1: but also the incredible power of strong families and connected
1:49
Speaker 1: communities in shaping a child's future by building their resilience.
1:53
Speaker 1: He's got a brand new book out, well, actually it
1:55
Speaker 1: comes out next Tuesday. It's called Building Resilient Kids, Drawing
1:59
Speaker 1: from his diverse experience and providing a comprehensive guide on
2:02
Speaker 1: fostering resilience in our kids. Now, Tim, so good to
2:05
Speaker 1: have you on the pod. You're not a school teacher,
2:07
Speaker 1: you're not a child's psyche, you're not an academic. So
2:09
Speaker 1: there's a really different view to how you've written this
2:13
Speaker 1: book and what it's all about. I want to pick
2:16
Speaker 1: up on a couple of things straight off, just out
2:18
Speaker 1: of your bio. First off, all of the moves. You're
2:21
Speaker 1: a kid, You're moving around all over the countryside. How
2:24
Speaker 1: did you deal with it? Because we get this question
2:26
Speaker 1: all the time via our email and people are saying
2:28
Speaker 1: we're about to move, is it the right thing of
2:29
Speaker 1: the wrong thing? And the kid's going to be resilient?
2:31
Speaker 1: And there's always been this idea kids are resilient, they'll
2:34
Speaker 1: be able to move into and adapt to the new environment,
2:36
Speaker 1: no problem at all. What's your take?
2:39
Speaker 2: Maybe jump to the research then I'll give you the answer.
2:41
Speaker 2: The research is inconclusive. Does geostability assist resilience If you're
2:45
Speaker 2: in the same place, building connections with friends, does that
2:50
Speaker 2: assist you in the social layer of your resilience or not?
2:54
Speaker 2: Or conversely, does portability assist you in, to use your word,
2:58
Speaker 2: that adaptation and that inconclusiveness is kind of interesting in itself,
3:03
Speaker 2: but my individual experience is maybe twofold. The first thing
3:07
Speaker 2: is the pillar of strength provided by family. No matter
3:11
Speaker 2: what school we were going to, no matter what neighborhood
3:14
Speaker 2: we were in, no matter what new sporting club, Mum
3:17
Speaker 2: and Dad were always there for us. And we know
3:20
Speaker 2: the research says that as little as one parent or
3:23
Speaker 2: care or other adult that's there for a child will
3:26
Speaker 2: assist in resilience. And the second part was using prisms
3:31
Speaker 2: and vectors like sport for me, generally team sport as
3:36
Speaker 2: a way to not just build skills, but also social connection.
3:41
Speaker 2: And so as a result, as the removal vans were
3:45
Speaker 2: pulling away from the house, my brother and I, who
3:48
Speaker 2: was also a part of my bedrock of family, were
3:51
Speaker 2: knocking on neighborhood doors asking the parents, Hey, have you
3:54
Speaker 2: got any kids, And that inevitably led to these solid
3:58
Speaker 2: foundations of friendships that have preserved all around the country
4:02
Speaker 2: for us as we've grown older.
4:04
Speaker 1: I just love the example of going and knocking on
4:05
Speaker 1: the doors and saying, have you got any kids? We're
4:07
Speaker 1: looking to play. I can't imagine that there are too
4:09
Speaker 1: many families in twenty twenty five who'd say, oh, yeah,
4:11
Speaker 1: kids did that all the time, really really unusual. Let's
4:15
Speaker 1: fast forward. We can talk about military, we can talk
4:18
Speaker 1: about so many other things. But there's something in your
4:21
Speaker 1: bio that grabbed me when I first found out about
4:23
Speaker 1: the book and the work that you were doing, and
4:25
Speaker 1: it was this witnessed the depths of human suffering but
4:28
Speaker 1: also the incredible power of strong families in connective communities,
4:32
Speaker 1: world's most challenging environments. I don't know how far into
4:36
Speaker 1: it you would like to go, but the work that
4:39
Speaker 1: you've done militarily and since in these environments, it's the
4:44
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that people can't help but tune into
4:46
Speaker 1: and say, I just need to know more. What have
4:48
Speaker 1: you done, where did you go, who did you do
4:50
Speaker 1: it with, What did it mean? What can you share
4:53
Speaker 1: in terms of specifics? Will you share one or two things,
4:56
Speaker 1: one or two stories that highlight how you're experience has
5:00
Speaker 1: helped you to be more resilient and support the resilience
5:03
Speaker 1: of others.
5:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. I spent two decades working in the
5:07
Speaker 2: world's most inhospitable locations from Afghanistan to Iraq, to Somalia,
5:12
Speaker 2: to Sedan, to South Sudan to Sierra Leone, and I
5:14
Speaker 2: definitely did hand on heart witness the worst of humankind,
5:18
Speaker 2: the worst that humans can inflict on other humans. But
5:21
Speaker 2: also how these humans, even little humans, are able to
5:25
Speaker 2: get through it, are able to persevere or persist. And
5:29
Speaker 2: perhaps two stories. The first is in my time in
5:33
Speaker 2: Sierra Leone. I spent ten months as a military advisor
5:36
Speaker 2: to the government of Sierra Leone during the heights of
5:39
Speaker 2: the civil war. And when I first arrived, having never
5:43
Speaker 2: been to Africa before, but having done my research and thinking, look, technically,
5:48
Speaker 2: this doesn't look like a difficult job. The opposing forces,
5:52
Speaker 2: the anti government elements, were reasonably primitive. Their tactics were
5:56
Speaker 2: fairly basic. But I asked around in the formative few weeks,
6:01
Speaker 2: what are you most scared of now? British Army trained
6:04
Speaker 2: Sierra Leone Army soldiers came back with a very common answer,
6:09
Speaker 2: what we're most afraid of is the Small Boys Unit. Now,
6:12
Speaker 2: the Small Boys Unit of the Revolutionary United Front. That
6:15
Speaker 2: anti government element were children as young as six. Now,
6:20
Speaker 2: to get your head around that in our context in
6:23
Speaker 2: the Western world, is unfathomable that our children could be
6:28
Speaker 2: armed combatants at the age of six, But even more so,
6:32
Speaker 2: how could they become the most feared fighting force to
6:36
Speaker 2: fully grown men who had been trained by the British Army.
6:39
Speaker 2: And it was because these kids had been grown up
6:42
Speaker 2: and indoctrinated that murder was noble and rape was normal.
6:46
Speaker 2: I mean, everything that is just horrific had been conditioned
6:50
Speaker 2: in these kids. You've spoken before about Paul Bloom and
6:54
Speaker 2: the massive amount of research that he's done. Well, we
6:57
Speaker 2: know in Bloom's research that morality is code in a
7:00
Speaker 2: very young age. So if we code that morality in
7:03
Speaker 2: our kids to do horrific things, then absolutely they will.
7:08
Speaker 2: And the second example, maybe one that's a little bit
7:11
Speaker 2: more contemplative, occurred in my time in Afghanistan where one
7:15
Speaker 2: of my local staff, Bashyear, invited me to his family
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Speaker 2: home for dinner. Very basic family home, mud Straw, a
7:23
Speaker 2: single room that was the communal room. It served as
7:26
Speaker 2: the lounge room, the dining room, and the sleeping room,
7:29
Speaker 2: with three generations living in it, grandparents, parents and kids alike.
7:34
Speaker 2: And we shared a meal on that floor and in
7:37
Speaker 2: the process of talking geopolitics, Basheer was incredibly wise on geopolitics. Inevitably,
7:44
Speaker 2: the conversation did turn to family, and he asked some questions, Hey,
7:49
Speaker 2: do you live like this back in Australia, No, bashar,
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Speaker 2: we do not. Do you eat like this with three
7:56
Speaker 2: generations of families back in Australia? Noba, shear, we do not,
8:00
Speaker 2: and nearly ashamed to tell him that in most family groups,
8:06
Speaker 2: in most family units in Australia, the kids might be
8:09
Speaker 2: eating alone. Maybe they're reading with one parent, perhaps the
8:13
Speaker 2: second parent comes back at a different time. Perhaps they're
8:17
Speaker 2: reading in front of the television. Well, none of these
8:20
Speaker 2: things were a thing in Afghanistan. There was no television,
8:23
Speaker 2: There was no electricity in this small village save for
8:27
Speaker 2: a small amount of generated power. And it actually got
8:30
Speaker 2: me thinking, justin have we got it right? Are we
8:33
Speaker 2: saying that family is all important, but then diverting our
8:37
Speaker 2: attention to do something completely different.
8:40
Speaker 1: We have an economy that demands things that are just
8:43
Speaker 1: not in harmony with the best interests of our children,
8:46
Speaker 1: or our families, or even of us. It's extraordinary. Let's
8:51
Speaker 1: talk more about resilience. Generally. You've developed a model that
8:55
Speaker 1: I think is worth exploring and Obviously, the book goes
8:58
Speaker 1: into it in depth. We can barely scratch the surface here,
9:01
Speaker 1: but let's just talk about a couple of basics around resilience.
9:03
Speaker 1: First off, there is a growing trend on the part
9:06
Speaker 1: of well intentioned parents, and I get it because I've
9:08
Speaker 1: been guilty of it myself, to try to protect our
9:10
Speaker 1: children from stresses in life. Let's talk about why stress matters.
9:14
Speaker 1: Let's just start there and then move into resilience. Why
9:17
Speaker 1: does stress matter? And this is coming from a guy
9:19
Speaker 1: who has seen some of the most stressful, difficult, challenging,
9:23
Speaker 1: volatile adversity that life can throw at you.
9:28
Speaker 2: We think about stress like it is all incredibly negative.
9:31
Speaker 2: But Yerks and Dodson, two researchers over one hundred years ago,
9:35
Speaker 2: prove that some stress in our life is beneficial. We
9:38
Speaker 2: can't have too little stress, we can't have too much stress,
9:41
Speaker 2: but the right amount of stress drives us to optimize performance.
9:45
Speaker 2: And the second comment I'd make to that is the
9:47
Speaker 2: thing called resilience, which is a big word that hopefully
9:50
Speaker 2: we've codified in a fairly coherent way. It varies by degree,
9:55
Speaker 2: not kind. So that amount of stress in your life,
9:57
Speaker 2: my life, the life of our pair and should be
10:01
Speaker 2: the same amount of stress in our kid's life, but
10:03
Speaker 2: it varies by degree, not kind, so it's relative stress.
10:06
Speaker 2: Perhaps if I can cite one example, my youngest did
10:12
Speaker 2: not want to go to her year ten school camp.
10:15
Speaker 2: She said, Dad, I've got anxiety. I don't want to
10:18
Speaker 2: go and making me anxious. I'm not going to survive
10:21
Speaker 2: the school camp. Now, back when we were growing up,
10:24
Speaker 2: that wasn't a clinical term, that word anxiety. It was
10:27
Speaker 2: just called nervous. We said, nope, you're going to go.
10:30
Speaker 2: You'll grow from it. And on the other side of
10:33
Speaker 2: disturbance and disruption is growth. And so off she went.
10:37
Speaker 2: She came back, had an incredible time, and twelve months
10:40
Speaker 2: later she's in the United States instructing at a summer
10:45
Speaker 2: camp herself. A little bit of stress is useful, and
10:49
Speaker 2: you can also turn your attention to the problems with
10:52
Speaker 2: helicopter parenting and bulldeouze of parenting the parents that are
10:56
Speaker 2: hovering around or clearing all obstacles. In longitudinal studies, we
11:01
Speaker 2: now know that that's not beneficial at all for the child.
11:05
Speaker 2: It's not teaching them their ability to emotionally regulate, to
11:08
Speaker 2: problem solve, to cope, it's not teaching any of the
11:12
Speaker 2: three core components of executive function, including cognitive flexibility and
11:16
Speaker 2: working memory. In fact, we're degrading the resilience of our
11:20
Speaker 2: kids by doing that.
11:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny, isn't it, Because we want the
11:24
Speaker 1: very best for them, and then when we see them uncomfortable,
11:28
Speaker 1: we kind of go, well, because I want the best
11:30
Speaker 1: for you, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to
11:32
Speaker 1: remove you from the discomfort. And yet that avoidance seems
11:35
Speaker 1: to reinforce the very anxiety that we're trying to alleviate.
11:39
Speaker 2: It comes from a place of love and care and
11:42
Speaker 2: support and the I mean the inclusive place. Not just parents,
11:46
Speaker 2: but aunts and uncles and grandparents and teachers and coaches
11:50
Speaker 2: and mentors. We all do it, try and wrap our
11:53
Speaker 2: kids up in cotton wall a bit because we love
11:55
Speaker 2: them so much or care or want to support them significantly,
11:59
Speaker 2: But it's not benefit. We should allow them to have
12:02
Speaker 2: a little bit of stress. And interestingly, what the research
12:05
Speaker 2: says at the youngest of ages, when their brains are
12:08
Speaker 2: incredibly neuroplastic, where we can laminate pathways that are highly beneficial,
12:14
Speaker 2: what does that mean for a toddler or wadler. Allow
12:17
Speaker 2: them to sit in the emotion, not dive in and
12:21
Speaker 2: try and do something about that emotion good bad, or
12:24
Speaker 2: in different emotion, but allow them to work out Okay,
12:28
Speaker 2: this emotion will pass. Jill Bolt Taylor says, it passes
12:32
Speaker 2: in ninety seconds. It certainly passes in less amounts of
12:35
Speaker 2: time in our kids, So allow them to wait it
12:38
Speaker 2: out rather than feeling like the only coping mechanism is
12:42
Speaker 2: the adult.
12:44
Speaker 1: Critical that we remember just how quickly it can pass.
12:46
Speaker 1: It doesn't always like Sometimes our kids will have an
12:48
Speaker 1: emotion just I don't know. In the last month or two,
12:51
Speaker 1: one of my daughters who had a big crush on
12:53
Speaker 1: a boy, well that all just blew up. It didn't
12:56
Speaker 1: quite work out, and the emotion lasted about I'm going
13:00
Speaker 1: to say a week. There was a lot going on,
13:03
Speaker 1: But that's unusual. The day to day trivialities and challenges
13:08
Speaker 1: and basic adversities that we all encounter, they're gone pretty quickly.
13:11
Speaker 1: The person cuts you off on the road, you get
13:13
Speaker 1: really upset, and literally sixty seconds later, you've typically forgotten
13:17
Speaker 1: about it, unless it was really bad. Hey, let's move
13:28
Speaker 1: on to a question that I think really matters a
13:30
Speaker 1: lot here, and that is just at the very foundations,
13:33
Speaker 1: the foundational pillars of resilience. What have you written about
13:38
Speaker 1: these foundations.
13:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, So our model in the Resilience Shield, the book
13:43
Speaker 2: I co wrote with doctor Dan Pronk and Ben Pronk,
13:45
Speaker 2: recognizes layers of resilience. Now, this is an evidence based model.
13:49
Speaker 2: It's been validated by the University of Western Australia. And
13:51
Speaker 2: to skate over what the layers are and then perhaps
13:54
Speaker 2: to contextualize them after all that. The first is an
13:58
Speaker 2: innate layer, so part genetics, part epigenetics, how you were
14:02
Speaker 2: brought up, where you were brought up, Your DNA and
14:04
Speaker 2: your experiences, including intergenerational experiences counts for a bit. Now
14:08
Speaker 2: for you and me justin not very modifiable. There's a
14:12
Speaker 2: bit of your personality in there, there's some of your
14:14
Speaker 2: morality in there, your values sit in there. So it
14:16
Speaker 2: is modifiable in some way, but not easily modifiable. The
14:21
Speaker 2: four truly modifiable layers are the mind layer. It's the
14:25
Speaker 2: importance of mindset and also the importance of meditation and
14:29
Speaker 2: mindfulness practices, which yes, you can teach by agent stage
14:33
Speaker 2: to a Toddler Wardler, tween and teen. Then there's the
14:36
Speaker 2: body layer. Unsurprisingly, sleep, diet, and exercise. They exist in
14:40
Speaker 2: this healthy trinity. Anything you do on one of those
14:43
Speaker 2: angles influences the other angle. And I get no prizes
14:47
Speaker 2: for telling you and your listeners that. But when we're
14:51
Speaker 2: under stress load, what are the first three things that
14:53
Speaker 2: go inevitably at sleep, diet, and exercise.
14:56
Speaker 1: We eat lousy, stoping in our bodies and get less sleep.
14:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, that's right, that's right. And then there's the
15:01
Speaker 2: social layer, so the importance of social support systems, the
15:04
Speaker 2: people that are there for you, those that you're there for.
15:07
Speaker 2: Then the professional lab. If we suck at our job,
15:09
Speaker 2: it's likely to bring more stress in our life. This
15:12
Speaker 2: is about improving confidence and competence to overcome adversities in
15:18
Speaker 2: our professional life, including a stay at home parents if
15:21
Speaker 2: that's the profession that you have. And then our bonus layer,
15:25
Speaker 2: I come back to the words you use right at
15:27
Speaker 2: the start, is adaptation, our ability to do things that
15:30
Speaker 2: we never thought we'd be able to do if we
15:34
Speaker 2: are able to apply the rock solid foundations established in
15:38
Speaker 2: those underlying layers, and the varies by degree and not
15:41
Speaker 2: kind model is absolutely transferable to our kids. In all
15:46
Speaker 2: four stages of their development.
15:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really solid. I think there's so much there.
15:52
Speaker 1: Let me run something past you that I hear all
15:54
Speaker 1: the time when I'm talking to parents regularly, I'll be
15:57
Speaker 1: running my resilience presentations in schools and organizations, and I'll
16:01
Speaker 1: ask the question when when do your children show a
16:05
Speaker 1: lack of resilience, And consistently I hear things like, well,
16:09
Speaker 1: they're not very resilient when they're tired or they're hungry.
16:13
Speaker 1: And I often want to distinguish between resilience and willpower
16:18
Speaker 1: or capacity to control yourself because you're depleted. And there's
16:22
Speaker 1: another element as well, and that is people will say, well,
16:25
Speaker 1: they show a lack of resilience when they don't want
16:29
Speaker 1: to try, like when they're ready to give up. And
16:33
Speaker 1: for me, this is my hypothesis. Will power and resilience
16:36
Speaker 1: are different, and so to perseverance and resilience. In short,
16:41
Speaker 1: if I have a lousy experience at school, I'm eight
16:44
Speaker 1: years old and I have a blow up with my friends,
16:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to come home and I'm going to feel lousy.
16:49
Speaker 1: I might not be hungry, i might not sleep well,
16:51
Speaker 1: I might be a little bit emotional, but that doesn't
16:53
Speaker 1: mean that I'm lacking resilience. It means that I've had
16:56
Speaker 1: a bad day, And I wonder if you could unpack
16:58
Speaker 1: that little more and either argue against what I'm saying
17:01
Speaker 1: or even flesh it out further. Based on your model
17:03
Speaker 1: and based on the work that you do with the
17:06
Speaker 1: Resilience Shield and with the new book about helping kids
17:09
Speaker 1: to be more resilient.
17:11
Speaker 2: You think about stress and resilience like they're on a
17:13
Speaker 2: seesaw with our resilience on one side and stress on
17:17
Speaker 2: the other, or our kids resilience on one side, and
17:20
Speaker 2: the amount of stress in their life on the other.
17:22
Speaker 2: And this isn't fair to compare. These things aren't relative.
17:26
Speaker 2: But actually, for the most part, we do go through
17:28
Speaker 2: lives with things in balance. So to your example, a
17:31
Speaker 2: bit more stress into our kids' life tips the scales
17:35
Speaker 2: in favor of the stress side of the seesaw. But
17:39
Speaker 2: remembering if they have had a trying time at school,
17:43
Speaker 2: whether it's intellectually, whether they have been cognitively sapped, whether
17:49
Speaker 2: it is sleep, diet, exercise, or the absence of social support,
17:53
Speaker 2: their friendship network is in their mind dissolving or disintegrating.
17:58
Speaker 2: A lot of resilience happen to be about rest and recovery,
18:03
Speaker 2: and we don't really think too much about that. You know,
18:06
Speaker 2: the true psychological terms you're familiar with is the parasympathetic backlash.
18:11
Speaker 2: You know, when we see this spike of stress, then
18:15
Speaker 2: our body wants to return it to homeostasis, but it
18:18
Speaker 2: dives back through that baseline of equilibrium in order to
18:22
Speaker 2: reconstitute the neurochemicals that we need to just establish this equilibrium.
18:29
Speaker 2: So that's the first thing that a lot of resilience
18:31
Speaker 2: is all about rest and recovery, and our kids don't
18:33
Speaker 2: really recognize that, hence the importance to guide shape and
18:37
Speaker 2: supervise them to do that. The second part that's a
18:40
Speaker 2: bit more interesting is how do we build motivation, tenacity,
18:43
Speaker 2: will power, or to use Angela Duckworth's word, grit, And
18:48
Speaker 2: a lot of that is about a little part of
18:51
Speaker 2: our brain called the anterior mid singular cortex, now the AMCC,
18:55
Speaker 2: very understudied part of our neurot me is where we
19:02
Speaker 2: generate this tenacity, will power and determination, and you can
19:06
Speaker 2: flex it by doing things that are slightly more uncomfortable
19:09
Speaker 2: than you're willing to deal with. And so we want
19:13
Speaker 2: our kids to be stressed to the point where they
19:16
Speaker 2: are flexing that AMCC. That's kind of crucially important. The
19:20
Speaker 2: other part that relates to this is not just Duckworth's work,
19:25
Speaker 2: but also Carol Dweck, you know her concept of the
19:28
Speaker 2: fixed and growth mindset, and those people who have fixed
19:33
Speaker 2: mindsets believe there is nothing I can do to change
19:35
Speaker 2: the outcome, whereas the growth mindset individuals and we can
19:39
Speaker 2: certainly instill this in our kids recognize that failure is
19:44
Speaker 2: an opportunity to learn, and learning, of course is an
19:47
Speaker 2: opportunity to grow. And there's a direct correlation to resilience
19:51
Speaker 2: inside that model as well.
19:53
Speaker 1: So let's talk specifically about ways that we can grow
19:56
Speaker 1: resilience in kids. If parents can take one to maximum
20:00
Speaker 1: three things out of this conversation to bolster resilience for
20:03
Speaker 1: their children, what would they be.
20:04
Speaker 2: I have to go to the wisdom of all the
20:06
Speaker 2: experts that I've interviewed for the book. I mean, in
20:08
Speaker 2: Building Resilient Kids. There's probably sixty plus hours of interviews
20:12
Speaker 2: and wisdom from the experts, and the things that they
20:15
Speaker 2: would say back to you justin would be role model
20:18
Speaker 2: of resilience you want to see in your kids. I
20:21
Speaker 2: don't know how many times we witness a parent saying
20:24
Speaker 2: one thing or doing something completely different. If you want
20:28
Speaker 2: your kids to grow up to be the best version
20:30
Speaker 2: of them, then show them how it's done. Let me
20:33
Speaker 2: give you some examples. So if you wake up in
20:37
Speaker 2: the morning and go and meditate, your child grows up
20:41
Speaker 2: watching you meditating. They don't put a label on that.
20:44
Speaker 2: It's just what mum or dad do to remain calm
20:47
Speaker 2: and balanced and centered, to build this level of self
20:50
Speaker 2: awareness and self reflection. If you always eat healthy, cook together,
20:55
Speaker 2: and eat together, they don't describe that as nutrition. It's
20:59
Speaker 2: just the way we eat. And we could continue on.
21:02
Speaker 2: That'd be observation number one.
21:04
Speaker 1: I want to jump in on you here because this
21:07
Speaker 1: modeling is so important when I think about Resilien. It's
21:09
Speaker 1: one of the examples that I love to share, and
21:11
Speaker 1: i'd love your reaction. When you're in the car and
21:14
Speaker 1: somebody cuts you off, or when you're a sporting event
21:17
Speaker 1: and the referee can't see very well with his two
21:20
Speaker 1: eyes what you can clearly see with your one, and
21:23
Speaker 1: so you start making a big noise about decisions that
21:27
Speaker 1: don't go your way. What are the children seeing? We say,
21:30
Speaker 1: that we want ac kid to be resilience, but often
21:32
Speaker 1: our responses to the adversity and hardship that we encounter
21:36
Speaker 1: tends to be more reactive than resilient.
21:39
Speaker 2: Your thoughts absolutely is, without question, and it's largely because
21:44
Speaker 2: we are inundated with data. The University of California, Los
21:48
Speaker 2: Angeles says thirty four gigabytes a day, and that's compounding
21:51
Speaker 2: five percent year on year. So how are you flushing
21:53
Speaker 2: the nonsense from your head? How are you bringing yourself
21:56
Speaker 2: to a place where your reaction isn't driven by the
21:59
Speaker 2: end that thinks you're being attacked by sabertoothed tiger, not
22:02
Speaker 2: being cut off in traffic, and therefore creating space between
22:07
Speaker 2: stimulus and response. And of course i'm paraphrasing man Search
22:12
Speaker 2: for Meeting by Victor Frankel. That quote's been attributed to Francle.
22:15
Speaker 2: But that's space between stimulus and response is incredibly important,
22:19
Speaker 2: and we can practice at reps and sets really matter
22:24
Speaker 2: in order to get a better response. Now, it doesn't
22:27
Speaker 2: mean you won't be perfect. I had an outburst at
22:29
Speaker 2: my youngest just a couple of weeks ago, and of course,
22:33
Speaker 2: classic amygdala hijack. Thought the circumstance, which was a broken
22:38
Speaker 2: sink was threatening my life. I thought it was the
22:42
Speaker 2: saber tooth tiger. It was not. It was just a
22:44
Speaker 2: broken sink. And of course the key measure here, when
22:50
Speaker 2: you think of Goldman's work on amigdala hijack, the key
22:53
Speaker 2: thing that a human reflects on immediately after having an
22:56
Speaker 2: amidala hijack, the key emotion is shame and regret. And
23:01
Speaker 2: I've experienced both of those nearly instantly, and I immediately
23:04
Speaker 2: went to my young, lucy, beautiful baby daughter and apologized
23:08
Speaker 2: profusely for the way I'd reacted. So even though I
23:11
Speaker 2: know the theory, even though yes I meditate and I'm
23:15
Speaker 2: mindful and I try and get my brain into a
23:17
Speaker 2: place of balance, it can still happen, for sure, so hard.
23:21
Speaker 1: So that's one is great modeling. What would another really
23:26
Speaker 1: central strategy for parents be to bolster their kids' resilience?
23:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I turned the microphone around on the experts in
23:34
Speaker 2: my final question to everyone that I researched with for
23:39
Speaker 2: building resilient kids, and said, what are the thing? What
23:42
Speaker 2: are the things? And specifically, what is the one thing
23:45
Speaker 2: that you would suggest that we should be allowing kids
23:48
Speaker 2: to do, enabling kids to do, and generally speaking, there
23:53
Speaker 2: was a common theme let them fail, but fail well.
23:58
Speaker 2: Let them understand that this is isn't about the aplus
24:02
Speaker 2: on the report card, or the blue ribbon at the
24:04
Speaker 2: sports carnival or the trophy. It's about the effort that
24:10
Speaker 2: they put out to get those things that actually we
24:14
Speaker 2: want to be recognizing that effort's more important than achievement.
24:17
Speaker 2: And it does certainly link back to the work of
24:19
Speaker 2: Carol Dweck allowing them to learn from their failures rather
24:24
Speaker 2: than engineering their success. Now we can we can do that.
24:28
Speaker 2: We can set the preconditions for our kids to be
24:30
Speaker 2: successful in nearly everything. Do their homework for them, make
24:34
Speaker 2: their lunch for them, drive them to school, don't allow
24:37
Speaker 2: them to be late for sporting practice, ensure that their
24:39
Speaker 2: school uniforms are always launded. Or we can insert some
24:44
Speaker 2: little stressors in their life that enable them to fail,
24:48
Speaker 2: to learn, to learn.
24:49
Speaker 1: Well, and to grow tim They's insights are so fundamental,
24:55
Speaker 1: and in some ways they're so basic, like people would
24:58
Speaker 1: be listening going yeah, yeah, I know that, I know that,
25:00
Speaker 1: And yet the simple is often the most profound. And
25:03
Speaker 1: these are the things that people I think will resonate
25:06
Speaker 1: with the most. I so much appreciate your sharing the
25:09
Speaker 1: wisdom that you've shared. Like I said, we barely scratch
25:11
Speaker 1: the surface. Brand new book, Building Resilient Kids, by Tim
25:16
Speaker 1: Curtis comes out next week, available for pre order now,
25:18
Speaker 1: I guess online.
25:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, ebook, audiobook and also paperback published by Pam McMillan.
25:24
Speaker 2: A big shout out to Alex Lloyd, my editor. He's
25:27
Speaker 2: persisted with me on book number two. But Building Resilient
25:30
Speaker 2: Kids available in all good bookshops and probably some of
25:33
Speaker 2: the bad ones too, justin on the first of July.
25:36
Speaker 2: Pre order before the first of July.
25:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, so jump online. We will link to Building
25:40
Speaker 1: Resilient Kids in the show notes so that you can
25:42
Speaker 1: if this is something that's sparked your interest. Hey, just
25:44
Speaker 1: before we go as well, obviously you've done plenty of
25:47
Speaker 1: resilient things over the years. You've got a podcast. Tell
25:52
Speaker 1: us about the pod and how people can find out
25:54
Speaker 1: about that and how much of a resilience boost that's
25:57
Speaker 1: going to give them.
25:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's two podcasts actually. The first one is the
26:01
Speaker 2: Unforgiving sixty podcast that I co host with Ben Pronk,
26:04
Speaker 2: and it interviews people living lives less ordinary, those people
26:07
Speaker 2: who are inspiring us to do things bigger, better, maybe
26:13
Speaker 2: even a little bit badder. It's a bit of a
26:15
Speaker 2: variety show, but we look at what they do for
26:19
Speaker 2: themselves to go all ways a little further. Unforgiving sixty
26:22
Speaker 2: is a line from a Rudyard Kipling poem where Kipling
26:26
Speaker 2: challenges us to fill your unforgiving minute with sixty seconds
26:30
Speaker 2: worth of distance run. You'll be highly familiar with it
26:33
Speaker 2: the poem, if will fill every moment in your life.
26:36
Speaker 2: And the second is a podcast by the name of
26:39
Speaker 2: the book Building Resilient Kids, where I'll be exploring, initially
26:44
Speaker 2: with all of those cast members in the book, those
26:46
Speaker 2: people that I have interviewed, what do they do? How
26:50
Speaker 2: can we bring this to life by age and stage
26:53
Speaker 2: for all of our kids. A lot of this is
26:56
Speaker 2: codified in the tools and techniques inside the book, but
26:59
Speaker 2: more person suddenly, what do they do that maybe isn't
27:02
Speaker 2: captured inside the interviews and inside print in the book?
27:07
Speaker 1: Fantastic? Okay, well, we will link to those in the
27:09
Speaker 1: show notes as well. Tim Curtis, the author, the podcaster,
27:12
Speaker 1: the former SAS commander and squadron leader, and everything else.
27:18
Speaker 1: What a privilege to be able to have you on
27:19
Speaker 1: the podcast today. Thank you for not just the books
27:22
Speaker 1: that you've written and the podcast that your host. But
27:25
Speaker 1: I know that this is one of those things that
27:26
Speaker 1: you see in American movies on social media and you
27:29
Speaker 1: kind of roll your eyes. But what you do, or
27:32
Speaker 1: what you've done for our country and for preserving peace
27:36
Speaker 1: and making a difference in the world, I just think
27:37
Speaker 1: that that needs to be identified. It's not just impressive,
27:40
Speaker 1: it's noble and noteworthy, and I'm so grateful for people
27:43
Speaker 1: like you who are willing to do it.
27:44
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tim, appreciate your time. Lucky to be on
27:47
Speaker 2: your show.
27:48
Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
27:51
Speaker 1: Bridge Media. If you'd like more info about the things
27:53
Speaker 1: we've talked about, Tim Curtis's details are through all the
27:57
Speaker 1: show notes, and you can find out more about making
27:59
Speaker 1: your family happier by visiting Happy families dot com dot
28:02
Speaker 1: a um hm hm