Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / What Should I Buy? - Muscle and Malaise Edition (1964–1982)

Transcript

What Should I Buy? - Muscle and Malaise Edition (1964–1982) · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Our panel of break fix petrolheads are back for another rousing
• 0:03
  what should I buy debate.
• 0:05
  Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time
• 0:08
  collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go, where'd you
• 0:13
  get that, or what the hell is wrong with you, at the next Cars and Coffee.
• 0:19
  Like most enthusiasts in the collector hobby, we are Camaro'd.
• 0:23
  Cuda'd and Mustang'd out.
• 0:25
  It's time for something new.
• 0:26
  Time to rediscover the unsung heroes from a period when square bodies and
• 0:31
  round headlights were all the rage.
• 0:34
  You asked and we answered.
• 0:36
  From our latest fan poll, there was an overwhelming consensus that our
• 0:39
  listeners wanted us to come back for yet another What Should I Buy?
• 0:43
  This time, hyper focusing on the cars from 1964 to 1982.
• 0:49
  And like all What Should I Buy episodes, we have some shopping criteria.
• 0:54
  This time, anything goes, as long as it's not the same old muscle and malaise we're
• 0:59
  used to seeing at our local car shows.
• 1:01
  Our panel of extraordinary petrolhead panelists It's our challenge to
• 1:05
  find our first time collector, something that will make their
• 1:08
  friends go, Hey, where'd you get that?
• 1:11
  At the next cars and coffee joining us tonight, our veteran, what should I buy?
• 1:14
  Panelists, Mark Shank, our nineties expert Don Weyberg from garage style
• 1:19
  magazine and Rob par from collector car guide, along with special guests,
• 1:24
  mountain man, Dan and Andrew Mason from the big man in a little car episode.
• 1:28
  So welcome to the show.
• 1:29
  Gentlemen.
• 1:30
  Welcome.
• 1:31
  Good to be here.
• 1:32
  Now, before we get started, I just want to say that I've got a new drinking game.
• 1:35
  It's kind of a two part drinking game.
• 1:37
  Every time Daniel mentions a square body, that's the first one, and
• 1:41
  then the second one is every time Eric mentions something Mopar.
• 1:45
  Ooh, interesting.
• 1:48
  So is your goal, Brad, to put people in the hospital tonight?
• 1:52
  We're all going to be laid out as Don mentioned.
• 1:54
  It's a pretty big bottle and it's brand new.
• 1:56
  So I've got a long way to go.
• 1:58
  Well, gentlemen, just like our intro States, it's time to talk
• 2:01
  about mustard and mayonnaise, I mean, muscle and malaise.
• 2:05
  So what exactly do I mean by muscle and malaise?
• 2:08
  Well, I don't know.
• 2:08
  You tell me let's define and turn to our resident experts, Don, Rob, and mountain
• 2:14
  man, Dan, to tell us exactly what.
• 2:17
  Those two terms mean in the automotive community, you say the word Malaysian
• 2:21
  think, Oh, Don, so Don, we've talked about this on a previous episode,
• 2:25
  but to refresh our audience, what is the Malaysian era really all about?
• 2:29
  Let's talk about them later.
• 2:30
  I think that was an era when power was at a minimum because you had what
• 2:34
  you had a lot of emission control.
• 2:35
  You had a lot of heavy cars from the safety standpoint.
• 2:39
  It was a point where, you know, all of a sudden the Dodge charger went
• 2:42
  from being the Dodge charger to being.
• 2:45
  A Cordova, you had to make amends with that because you couldn't market a Cordova
• 2:49
  that did zero to 60 in 12 or 13 seconds.
• 2:52
  That just wouldn't work.
• 2:53
  So you had to do what?
• 2:55
  You had to gussy it up with Argyle sweaters and pop up collars.
• 2:59
  You had to give it pinstripes.
• 3:00
  You had to give it custom trim.
• 3:02
  You had to give it all kinds of flash to make it look like you were really cool.
• 3:06
  Take for example, the Trans Am of Smokey and the Bandits.
• 3:09
  That was an epic, cool car.
• 3:12
  But it was not capable of anything that they did in those movies.
• 3:15
  Nothing that car could basically get out of its own way.
• 3:18
  It still held his head above water compared to so many other
• 3:21
  performance cars of the era.
• 3:23
  But compared to say a 70 Trans Am or a 71 455 super duty, uh,
• 3:29
  it didn't hold a candle, but what did it have flash pizzazz.
• 3:32
  It was the bright, shiny object that everybody had to have.
• 3:35
  And the movie helped it do all of that.
• 3:37
  So that helped us get through there.
• 3:39
  Somebody here has a drinking game going on.
• 3:41
  And if there was ever an era for drinking, it was the malaise era.
• 3:45
  Yeah.
• 3:45
  The weight came on the cars and the luxury was definitely a transition
• 3:49
  as the years went on from.
• 3:51
  Muscle to luxury every year after 72 and actually even 71, they started
• 3:57
  changing the horsepower ratings to net horsepower from gross.
• 4:00
  But a big thing during that timeframe up into like the early eighties,
• 4:04
  a lot of the manufacturers were purposely low balling their numbers.
• 4:07
  They were putting out an ads to where there were cases where they
• 4:10
  were taking them from the dealership to a dyno and it was pushing.
• 4:13
  10, 15% more power than what they were advertising the vehicles to have.
• 4:17
  And then as time went on, you had a g r, you had other emissions
• 4:22
  controls, and eventually in 1975, we got the beloved catalytic converter.
• 4:26
  Of course, everybody cursed like crazy when it came out at 75,
• 4:30
  76 were the lowest power cars.
• 4:32
  There's definitely sub 200 horsepower.
• 4:34
  I don't think anything, at least on the American side was
• 4:36
  anything over 200 horsepower.
• 4:39
  There were a few, but you're right, it was just around there.
• 4:41
  Right.
• 4:42
  L82 Corvette was like 220 by the end of the 70s.
• 4:45
  Actually back in the late 70s, it started coming back up again,
• 4:47
  but it tipped around 75 to 77.
• 4:50
  I think the 77, the Z28 came back and of course you had your Trans Am.
• 4:54
  Like Don said, they got flashier and prettier.
• 4:56
  And unless you tuned them a little bit, they really didn't do a whole lot.
• 5:00
  So before we go too far down memory lane, let's throw out any
• 5:04
  exceptions to our general rules.
• 5:07
  As you guys know, and as our fans know, we try to do this
• 5:09
  for the first time collector.
• 5:11
  So normally we come at this with a Budget in mind, we go zero to 50 grand,
• 5:15
  50 grand to a hundred, a hundred to infinity, you know, things like that.
• 5:18
  But I don't know that it necessarily applies here because we're
• 5:20
  looking for diamonds in the rough.
• 5:23
  And we already said in the intro that we're going to avoid the Camaros, the
• 5:27
  Kudas, the Challengers, the Mustangs.
• 5:30
  I would say probably the Chevelles, a lot of their super popular cars that
• 5:34
  you see crossing every auction block.
• 5:36
  You see it at every weekend car show.
• 5:38
  So we're really looking for something different, something
• 5:40
  affordable, something fun.
• 5:42
  Do we need to extend beyond the 1982 limit?
• 5:46
  Did anybody come up with that as an exception to this?
• 5:49
  I've got a question.
• 5:50
  Do we want to extend beyond our borders too?
• 5:53
  Yes.
• 5:54
  They didn't screw it up so bad.
• 5:56
  Then you're talking about Porsche 930s and Skyline GTRs.
• 5:59
  Well, I mean, I don't know if...
• 6:01
  They embody like the muscle car spirit.
• 6:03
  I don't know if we want to go down and try and define what a muscle car is.
• 6:06
  Every time we do Mark and I end up getting into an argument about something stupid.
• 6:10
  But now at dinner tonight, my wife and I were just kind of doing a little
• 6:13
  prelim research on muscle car and where the term came from, et cetera.
• 6:17
  She found something interesting.
• 6:19
  The first article so far that anybody has found the earliest
• 6:23
  article that mentions muscle car.
• 6:25
  Actually belonged to Jeep and they called it a muscle car in this one article.
• 6:30
  So now, of course, me being me, I'm on this kick, I got to go find this
• 6:34
  article, but supposedly it was back in the sixties because it had a big motor.
• 6:38
  It was actually considered a muscle car.
• 6:40
  It wasn't the Chrysler 300.
• 6:41
  It wasn't the Oldsmobile.
• 6:42
  It wasn't the Hudson, but yeah, it struck us both.
• 6:45
  It's really funny that it was an off road vehicle that first had
• 6:49
  the term muscle car attached to it.
• 6:51
  So does that predate the GTO?
• 6:53
  So is there earlier than 64?
• 6:55
  Now, actually, I believe it was 64.
• 6:57
  Now that you say that, it seems like she said in her reading, it sounds,
• 7:00
  I think it was 1964 for that jeep.
• 7:03
  So it would be fun to kind of track that down and see, you know, who wrote
• 7:07
  that, why they write it, et cetera.
• 7:09
  If we extended the borders, I mean, then you can put the Jensen interceptor
• 7:12
  in there and things of that ilk.
• 7:14
  They're not American muscle cars, but they have American muscle car DNA.
• 7:20
  I think that's okay because they have either small block or big
• 7:23
  block Chevys or Fords powering them.
• 7:25
  So I'm okay with that as a muscle car suggestion.
• 7:28
  We talked about on the Italian episode, the ESOs.
• 7:31
  It's the same thing.
• 7:31
  There's a bunch of these Italian coach builders that did American engines.
• 7:35
  The Pantera is not a muscle car.
• 7:37
  It's a sports car.
• 7:38
  So that's off the table, right?
• 7:39
  That doesn't qualify, but you're right.
• 7:41
  There are some European and even Japanese cars that I think fit into the Malaysia
• 7:45
  and we'll probably talk about those as we go along, but I want to make sure
• 7:48
  there aren't any other exceptions.
• 7:49
  There's a few.
• 7:50
  I think we can.
• 7:50
  Immediately take off the table.
• 7:52
  If we go outside of 1982, that's the GNX Grand National, the WS6,
• 7:58
  the Viper, pretty much any Corvette.
• 8:00
  Quick correction on that.
• 8:01
  Cause the WS6 actually existed back in the seventies era of the Pontiacs as well.
• 8:06
  The WS6 was a trim option that had existed since the second gen of, I don't
• 8:11
  think they've made any first gen, but I know from the second gen on they did.
• 8:14
  And remember to a WS6 really all it was was a handling package to give you.
• 8:18
  What they wanted to call the, the Gana experience, right?
• 8:21
  That was the whole point of the WS six.
• 8:23
  There was no power increase at all.
• 8:24
  It was just all chassis.
• 8:26
  So I don't know if you wanna go there, if we're gonna nix the G N X, are
• 8:29
  we gonna nix the TransAm G T A, the turbo V six with the, I guess the, the
• 8:34
  same motor and the GN X and all that?
• 8:36
  If we're gonna nix the Grand National, do we also have to throw out Monte
• 8:39
  Carlo SSS and the Grand Prix?
• 8:42
  Okay.
• 8:42
  I knew you would know if anybody has one.
• 8:44
  That's why.
• 8:45
  Yes.
• 8:45
  Let me just push that a little further.
• 8:47
  If we're going to kill grand national, kill Monte Carlo, kill
• 8:50
  grand prix, old mobile Cutlass.
• 8:52
  So that's basically killing the whole G body platform, but look what it brings.
• 8:55
  And this is up to y'all because we're pushing kind of far now, because I'm
• 8:59
  going to bring up a car that is one of my personal favorite, you guys will laugh.
• 9:02
  I know Lumina Z 34 and it's little brother, the Cavalier Z 34, Z 24.
• 9:08
  But in the nineties, those were considered.
• 9:12
  The muscle cars, that was it.
• 9:14
  Unless you wanted to talk about your old guards, Camaro,
• 9:17
  Mustang, Firebird, et cetera.
• 9:19
  I think we need to pull Don's card now.
• 9:21
  I think, I think he has disqualified himself from the discussion.
• 9:25
  We're like a bunch of medieval scholars arguing about when the dark ages end.
• 9:29
  I mean, some of these cars, like they're just too good.
• 9:33
  Like the eighties made some good cars.
• 9:35
  Like, I think this is about the audio industry was kind of on its knees.
• 9:40
  They're in a big transition.
• 9:41
  What are some of those diamonds in the rough?
• 9:43
  What are some of those things that may be with a little modern
• 9:45
  technology and assuming you don't live in California, you can turn into
• 9:49
  something that's really cool and fun.
• 9:50
  That's what we sort of have to figure out.
• 9:52
  And we keep dancing around these cars that are still sort of popular, right?
• 9:56
  So if you look at the third gen Camaro, like the Iraq,
• 9:59
  the firebirds not too far off.
• 10:00
  We need to find something a little bit different.
• 10:02
  I just wanted to know where we taper things off and where the blend line is.
• 10:05
  And I think we're still safe, even if we go up to about 85.
• 10:09
  If we go outside of our stated boundary, I think we're getting too much in the weeds.
• 10:13
  I think we nixed the Camaro, the Mustang, the Corvette, and maybe the charger and
• 10:18
  just everything else is a free for all.
• 10:19
  If you choose the Chevelle or whatever.
• 10:22
  Okay.
• 10:22
  That's cool.
• 10:23
  But I think we leave them in.
• 10:24
  Why not?
• 10:25
  You won't find any affordable examples, but I take events
• 10:28
  to the Chevelle comment, but.
• 10:30
  The Chevelle Laguna, good NASCAR pedigree.
• 10:34
  I mean, look at the Laguna S3.
• 10:36
  That was a hell of a car.
• 10:37
  It really was the styling.
• 10:38
  It had muscle for the day.
• 10:40
  Come on.
• 10:40
  It's a flashy time.
• 10:41
  You know, I think the Laguna is a great one, but you're right.
• 10:44
  Where do we draw that line?
• 10:46
  I think if you go with the lesser versions of the car, the performance
• 10:49
  vehicles, like going with the Cutlass instead of necessarily going with the
• 10:52
  442, going with the Buick Regal versus the GNX, the lower models, because
• 10:56
  that's going to fit the budget anyway.
• 10:58
  Yeah.
• 10:58
  If we're going to take some of the bigger names that you were mentioning,
• 11:02
  take one that's a less known car.
• 11:04
  And GTO as an example, if you get into like the earlier ones before the judge
• 11:08
  and everything, the mid sixties, and a lot of the guys would find a Tempest or
• 11:13
  LeMans and make a GTO clone out of them.
• 11:15
  And that's a great way for guys that don't have the money to go
• 11:17
  find a numbers, matching GTO.
• 11:20
  You go find the same, Platform basically, and build the car you want green all
• 11:25
  wholeheartedly with Dan's sentiment there that especially when you buy one
• 11:28
  of those less than, you know, not the GTO, but it is the Lomanzo to Tempest.
• 11:32
  There's no guilt.
• 11:33
  You're not going to feel bad if you cut it up to make something fit.
• 11:36
  I see muscle cars, like kind of two factions.
• 11:38
  There's guys who restore and go for period correct.
• 11:40
  And that's what they like.
• 11:41
  And then there's people who look at it as this is something
• 11:43
  to be made better and faster.
• 11:45
  So from the better and faster camp, there's no penalty to taking
• 11:48
  something pedestrian and moving it.
• 11:50
  So I think that goes both ways.
• 11:51
  And that's a really great point, Andrew, in that you can make a
• 11:54
  malaise car into a muscle car.
• 11:57
  And you can probably take a muscle car and make it a malaise car, adding
• 12:00
  luxury, adding other creature comforts, adding other things to it that maybe
• 12:04
  they were devoid of when they were built because they were more sporty.
• 12:06
  Right.
• 12:07
  So I think this conversation.
• 12:08
  Absent flows in both directions, depending on where you want to take it that already
• 12:11
  exists in a sense for the fact that a lot of those muscle cars become without AC.
• 12:16
  So there's companies for the past 20 years that have been making
• 12:18
  aftermarket AC to put in there.
• 12:20
  So you can take that muscle car and go for a trip during the summer
• 12:23
  and not sweat your brains out.
• 12:24
  That power steering, power brakes, all sorts of other stuff.
• 12:27
  They came out of luxury cars that didn't exist on the muscle cars.
• 12:30
  I think it goes both ways.
• 12:31
  Kind of getting into the 80s stuff.
• 12:33
  We transitioned from carburetors to fuel injection.
• 12:35
  The cutoff might be just carburetor car.
• 12:37
  If you want to have a cutoff point, again, it all is going to be based on budgets.
• 12:41
  Eric suggested we, I don't know what our limits are budget
• 12:44
  wise for an entry level car.
• 12:46
  That's another thing we need to determine.
• 12:47
  If it's expensive, it's not malaise.
• 12:54
  If you have to ask, you'd be surprised.
• 12:58
  I just saw an auction Fox body Cobra going for 70 grand.
• 13:03
  I mean, that's no power.
• 13:05
  You could get a Corvette for 40 grand.
• 13:07
  That blows it away.
• 13:08
  And it makes no sense.
• 13:09
  So it depends on what the people want.
• 13:11
  Some of these people are so fixated on the Iraqs and the certain vehicles.
• 13:15
  They want to pay more money for them.
• 13:17
  There's another vehicle that just kind of popped in my head while you
• 13:19
  were talking about that Fox body Cobra, the 93 Cobra Impala pop back
• 13:24
  as a, as a full blown hyped out Caprice 260 horsepower for its day.
• 13:29
  It was really, really amazing.
• 13:30
  In fact, I remember car and driver motor trend.
• 13:32
  One of the two, they compared the S 500 Mercedes.
• 13:36
  Against the Impala SS 1995, it was an amazing comparison because
• 13:40
  here you had the highbrow Mercedes with all the luxury and all that
• 13:44
  crap, but it's still a fast car.
• 13:46
  And then you have the Impala, which very fast car with kind of luxurious
• 13:50
  if you want to call it that.
• 13:52
  I hate to say it.
• 13:53
  The Impala mopped the floor with that Mercedes.
• 13:55
  That was one of those things they almost didn't want to publish it because
• 13:58
  they didn't want to upset Mercedes.
• 14:00
  And that particular Impala was only made 94 to 96 and the SS Callaway
• 14:05
  version of it actually came with a six speed manual, which I've always
• 14:08
  wanted to acquire one of those myself.
• 14:10
  I know Mercedes S500s and Impalas get cross shopped a lot, so I'm sure it
• 14:15
  was really concerning for Mercedes.
• 14:18
  So what I want to do is pull this back a little bit because Rob touched
• 14:22
  on something really important.
• 14:23
  And actually, so did mark, which is 2 sides of the last
• 14:26
  part of our shopping criteria.
• 14:28
  1 is looking at those lesser models or the cousin of, or as Don
• 14:33
  likes to put it in other terms.
• 14:34
  Episodes, the sister to certain vehicles, maybe under a different
• 14:38
  name with different sheet metal.
• 14:40
  You could get a variant of the GTO as an example, the old rally 350,
• 14:46
  which is basically a GTO judge that nobody pays attention to.
• 14:50
  So those are considerations we need to make.
• 14:53
  But on the other side, mark hit on.
• 14:55
  LS swap the world.
• 14:57
  And I know this speaks to Andrew, who's been pretty quiet this whole
• 14:59
  time, kind of waiting patiently is resto mods, swap cars, EV swaps.
• 15:04
  I think all of this stuff counts when we're talking about the
• 15:08
  muscle and malaise collector.
• 15:09
  What do they want to do with these cars?
• 15:11
  Especially if you're buying a malaise car for like five grand,
• 15:14
  it's going to need some love.
• 15:15
  What do you want to do with it?
• 15:16
  So Andrew, let's get your thoughts on that.
• 15:18
  I was going to say built not bar, right?
• 15:19
  I mean, if you're on a budget and you want something cool.
• 15:22
  Who cares what it's called?
• 15:23
  Who cares what model or trim it is and what rich guys will pay for it by the
• 15:27
  cleanest example of something that you can find that has all the trim there
• 15:31
  that you're not going to have to spend a lot of money piecing back together.
• 15:34
  But if it's an a body, it's a G body.
• 15:36
  It's a, whatever you're going to find parts for it.
• 15:38
  I was going to say 1983, first year of the Fox body.
• 15:41
  All those parts go back on it.
• 15:43
  You have a blank canvas is the way I look at these cars.
• 15:46
  They aren't terribly exciting as they came for all the reasons that were
• 15:49
  mentioned, but they're all just as capable of being modded out and built.
• 15:53
  To Eric's point about not having something like at every car show,
• 15:56
  I spent a couple of years dreaming of LS swapping a Volvo 240.
• 16:00
  Which is just a shoe box on wheels.
• 16:02
  But if it's done clean and you get the right wheels, the right suspension, I
• 16:07
  mean, it can be a hell of a lot of fun.
• 16:08
  Who cares what it does performance wise.
• 16:10
  It'll be too fast for anybody saying, you know, so that's my
• 16:13
  take buy them and build them.
• 16:15
  The nice thing is you'll be safe in that car.
• 16:18
  Right.
• 16:19
  And I'll send you an Argyle sweater.
• 16:21
  There you go.
• 16:22
  Go undercover.
• 16:23
  What about the Mustang too?
• 16:24
  You can't argue that that was like a turd.
• 16:27
  Well, yeah, it was a turd.
• 16:29
  But if you're going to be interesting, right, they had the Cobra version.
• 16:33
  Like it could be fun.
• 16:34
  I mean, obviously you'd have to fix it, modify it.
• 16:37
  And so Mark, I will see your Mustang too.
• 16:39
  Looking for alternatives now.
• 16:40
  I will pit it against the AMC Concorde.
• 16:44
  I mean, it depends on what direction you want to go.
• 16:46
  Right.
• 16:46
  So if we're going in where Andrew was talking about where, you know, you're
• 16:50
  going to build out a muscle car, you're just looking for a platform or a canvas.
• 16:54
  If you're looking to show up.
• 16:56
  at Cars and Coffee was just something that people just haven't seen before
• 17:00
  and that you kind of restore and build out mechanically just to make
• 17:04
  it honestly, I would say more safe.
• 17:06
  There's a bunch of different things to work with there, especially from AMC.
• 17:11
  And so part of that is if you're going down the Cars and Coffee
• 17:14
  route, then you're also looking at volume and how many were made.
• 17:17
  So if you look at like a King Cobra or something, they only ever made
• 17:20
  4, And because it was so hated.
• 17:23
  There's probably, I don't know, 27 on the road today, you know?
• 17:28
  So, so there is that angle to play and on the AMC side, they also
• 17:32
  did a bunch of interesting stuff.
• 17:34
  Somebody brought it up earlier.
• 17:35
  I think it was Don, right?
• 17:36
  The automotive manufacturers decided this wasn't a grassroots car culture thing.
• 17:40
  They just decided because we can't make cars fast anymore.
• 17:43
  We're going to try and make them cool.
• 17:45
  By pairing them with luxury brands, and so you have like the Pierre Cardin AMC
• 17:51
  Javelin, you have a Gucci edition Cadillac Seville, an Oleg Kasani AMC Matador.
• 17:59
  There is never anything cool about the Matador, okay?
• 18:03
  That's true.
• 18:07
  I have to admit that's true, but you have the Levi's Denim Gremlin.
• 18:11
  I mean, that was on my list.
• 18:12
  Like, when was the last time you saw a Levi's Denim Gremlin?
• 18:15
  Like, that's just kind of cool.
• 18:16
  Going to Gremlin, you had a Gremlin with a 304 V8 from the factory.
• 18:20
  If that wasn't good enough, there was a dealership in Arizona.
• 18:23
  I think it was Randall AMC.
• 18:25
  They would shoehorn in the Matador 401.
• 18:29
  Wow.
• 18:29
  And you talk about a little dynamo of a car.
• 18:32
  Sounds like death on wheels.
• 18:34
  That was it.
• 18:34
  But now you're talking kind of a Yanko edition for AMC because
• 18:38
  it was a dealer specialty.
• 18:40
  It's like the Celine of AMC.
• 18:42
  So I don't know if that would even qualify for this.
• 18:44
  I think it would, but there's also an AMX edition if we're going to
• 18:47
  go down the gremlin road, right?
• 18:49
  Yes, the AMX that was, uh, the Corvettes competitor because it
• 18:52
  was the only two seat sports car in America and it was half the price.
• 18:55
  I'm not talking about the Javelin.
• 18:56
  They had AMX edition other AMC vehicles.
• 19:00
  Yeah, later on in the 70s, they, they brought the AMX name back.
• 19:03
  Okay.
• 19:04
  So it was like a trim package then.
• 19:05
  Yeah.
• 19:06
  That goes exactly back to what Mark was saying.
• 19:08
  The Javelin is definitely on my list.
• 19:10
  I love the way it looks.
• 19:12
  It's got these kind of funky haunches, almost like wide body flares.
• 19:16
  It's a, you're not sure if it's got like a 71 Mach one or what
• 19:21
  it is when it's coming at you.
• 19:22
  Especially in the AMX guys with the spoiler and the rally wheels
• 19:26
  and all that kind of stuff.
• 19:26
  I think those cars are pretty cool.
• 19:29
  And Brad, so does this count towards the drinking game AMC?
• 19:32
  Is that like Mopar adjacent or do they stand alone?
• 19:34
  Uh, I think they sent along.
• 19:36
  All right, good.
• 19:37
  I'm going to drink for it.
• 19:38
  Anyway, Chrysler bought AMC in 87.
• 19:41
  And here we are talking AMC, which of course own Jeep.
• 19:45
  That's the only reason Chrysler bought it was for the Jeep brand.
• 19:48
  AMC actually does fit the budget we're talking about too.
• 19:51
  You can get a lot of.
• 19:52
  Yeah, people don't usually look for those 100 percent and
• 19:55
  there's quite a few of these.
• 19:56
  So let's stay on the AMC path for just a moment before we deviate.
• 20:01
  So we talked about the Javelin.
• 20:02
  We talked about the Gremlin.
• 20:04
  I mentioned the Concorde, which looks a lot like the Mustang two.
• 20:07
  And if you dress it up a little bit, it's a great alternative to Rob's point.
• 20:11
  Not very well known.
• 20:12
  Another one that came up on my list as a potential muscle car
• 20:16
  conversion is the AMC Ambassador 990.
• 20:20
  Bigger car.
• 20:21
  Lines up with one of my other suggestions, but if you kind of take a look at
• 20:25
  it, you could do something with it.
• 20:26
  I think it's kind of neat.
• 20:27
  If you're looking for a bit of a land cruiser that you could
• 20:31
  shove a big motor under the hood.
• 20:32
  I think that's an interesting category for the group to get into.
• 20:35
  Cause then you start looking at some of the Cadillac Eldorados, that whole
• 20:40
  kind of category of just land yacht, like just embrace the rolling couch.
• 20:45
  And if you want to drive a couch, then.
• 20:49
  You have some really interesting options that come out of this era, but that's
• 20:53
  the other side of the Malays air.
• 20:54
  They're not all sports cars.
• 20:56
  Let's say they're Luxo boats.
• 20:59
  Me being the Lincoln guy here, the Mark 3, the Mark 4, the Mark 5, all
• 21:04
  of those were equipped with 4 60s.
• 21:06
  The Mark 5 had it for 1 year as an option against the 400, which was
• 21:11
  a pig, but it was a great cruiser.
• 21:13
  I'll tell you, you get on any of those cars, they were They really,
• 21:18
  really can cook because of that big block tons and tons of torque.
• 21:22
  Look at those old mobiles and those Buicks with a four 55, you think
• 21:25
  grandpa going to church in the old mobile 98 with a four 55, that man
• 21:29
  could get there in five seconds flat because that thing was just, uh, oh.
• 21:33
  A rocket, but that's why it was sheer torque.
• 21:35
  And the funny thing is when you talk about 1978, the quickest,
• 21:39
  fastest American production car, Dan, you'll appreciate this.
• 21:43
  It was the Dodge Lil Red Express.
• 21:45
  Oh, you beat me to it.
• 21:47
  Oh, sorry.
• 21:48
  I didn't mean to the manufacturer, at least Chrysler figured out, Hey
• 21:51
  guys, did you know that the truck doesn't have to meet the emissions
• 21:55
  requirements, the safety requirements, et cetera, that a car does.
• 21:57
  They're very lightweight.
• 21:59
  If we throw our 360 in there with a few little tune ups, holy cow,
• 22:02
  we'll have a tire smoker for days.
• 22:04
  That was their little trick.
• 22:05
  And of course, here you are with this little farm implement and
• 22:08
  you're burning Corvettes transams all day long with a pickup.
• 22:12
  It was hugely embarrassing.
• 22:13
  The trick was.
• 22:14
  You had to be a good driver because all that power to a rear end with
• 22:18
  no weight on it, that thing just wanted to burn rubber for days.
• 22:21
  Dan, am I wrong?
• 22:22
  You're the pickup guy here.
• 22:23
  I mean, come on.
• 22:24
  That was definitely on my list of vehicles to mention.
• 22:27
  And with any truck, because there's no weight on the rear of them.
• 22:30
  If you don't know what you're doing, you see all the videos of the Mustangs,
• 22:33
  you know, going through the medians and hitting people on the sidewalks.
• 22:36
  It would have been way worse if cars and coffee existed back in the seventies
• 22:40
  when the little red express was there.
• 22:42
  Yes.
• 22:42
  And going back to the pickup conversation of, Hey guys, guess what?
• 22:46
  If we build a pickup with a really big motor, we don't have
• 22:47
  to meet emission standards.
• 22:48
  We don't have to meet safety standards.
• 22:50
  We can have a really fast truck that we can decorate out and
• 22:53
  make look really, really cool.
• 22:55
  It was the same thing with those Luxo barges.
• 22:57
  Look, we're catering to the guys who can afford a 15, 000 coupe.
• 23:00
  To, you know, tool around in and look important.
• 23:03
  They can be Frank Cannon for a day.
• 23:05
  They can afford that 460.
• 23:06
  They can afford the 455.
• 23:07
  They can afford the 472s.
• 23:09
  They can afford the 500s.
• 23:10
  They can afford all those big luxury liner engines.
• 23:13
  You know, what's more fun than finding a lightweight Matador or
• 23:16
  whatever and pulling out a big 440, 460, 500 and throwing it in there.
• 23:20
  I want to revisit AMC here in a little bit, but I do want
• 23:23
  to go back to something that.
• 23:25
  Mark mentioned earlier and he, he hit something that I had on my list when
• 23:29
  we mentioned Chevelle, he brought up the Laguna version of the Chevelle
• 23:32
  again, talking about these lesser known models, lesser known trim packages.
• 23:36
  I agree with you, Mark.
• 23:37
  That was on my list as well.
• 23:38
  That particular model actually came on my radar a few years ago when
• 23:43
  Chevy, they did a Laguna at SEMA.
• 23:47
  And they were doing it as an advertisement for their crate engine business and
• 23:52
  they had, I think it was a 74 Chevelle Laguna restomodded and built out.
• 23:57
  And that thing just looked so cool and like nothing that you
• 24:01
  see, which, you know, made me kind of look into it a little more.
• 24:04
  I just thought it was super cool.
• 24:05
  And there, I mean, there are some, if you're looking at kind of.
• 24:08
  Racing pedigree, you know, the, this was still the before times and NASCAR.
• 24:12
  And, you know, there's a little more correlation between these
• 24:15
  models and what was raced then, you know, in the later years when they
• 24:19
  totally switched everything around.
• 24:20
  But since you brought up General Motors, I wanted to go back to another
• 24:24
  John DeLorean special, not the GTO.
• 24:26
  I want to talk about the Vega.
• 24:29
  Here's the thing about the Vega.
• 24:30
  I love the Vegas.
• 24:31
  They are hardest can be defined anymore because all the quarter mile guys realize,
• 24:36
  Hey, the V8s on them, they're lightweight.
• 24:39
  You can get down the quarter mile real quick with them, unfortunately,
• 24:42
  because back when they were built, a lot of people didn't like them.
• 24:46
  They were kind of thrown to the side and many of them wound
• 24:48
  up in scrap yards and stuff.
• 24:49
  So I would say, even though they're a less known muscle car, they're 1 of the harder
• 24:54
  to find ones right now for like the GMs.
• 24:57
  But I found a solution to that problem because in watching shows like Rust
• 25:02
  Valley Restorers and learning about the Canadian versions of GM cars that
• 25:06
  can be imported into this country very easily because the statute of
• 25:09
  limitations on, you know, different models doesn't really exist at this point.
• 25:13
  You could actually get a Pontiac Astra.
• 25:17
  Not the Astra as in like the Vauxhall Astra, it's A S T R E.
• 25:22
  It's the same car, different badges in the same way that did
• 25:25
  the Bonneville as the Parisian.
• 25:27
  And they had all these other names, kind of more European sounding
• 25:31
  names for all these GM products.
• 25:32
  Once you crossed our border to the north of us.
• 25:35
  So I looked at that and went, okay, cool.
• 25:37
  But also in the shadows is the Monza, right?
• 25:40
  You could go in that direction as well.
• 25:42
  I thought the Astra was an American car.
• 25:43
  I thought that was also available here in the USA.
• 25:46
  It was sold here too, but I looked it up and a lot of the sales numbers
• 25:49
  were higher in Canada, just like the Parisian and a bunch of others.
• 25:53
  Yeah.
• 25:53
  Canadians are big Pontiac people.
• 25:55
  Yeah, they are.
• 25:55
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  I think the Vega could be a good one when DeLorean was faced.
• 26:00
  With Vega, he wanted to make it a sort of American BMW.
• 26:04
  General Motors just didn't want to have anything to do with it.
• 26:06
  They just wanted to put out a quick, dirty, efficient little car.
• 26:10
  The main problem with those cars, if I remember correctly, was
• 26:12
  their engines would literally have trouble with the aluminum.
• 26:16
  They would self-destruct, just the mythology would give out on those cars.
• 26:20
  Another problem that they had was huge problem with suspensions.
• 26:23
  Literally wheels were falling off the car.
• 26:25
  I mean, this is not good stuff by design.
• 26:28
  I think they were fabulous.
• 26:29
  And when you brought out the Cosworth, that was another John DeLorean special.
• 26:34
  He was the one who actually went over there and spoke to those people to build
• 26:37
  the heads and engineer a hot rod Vega.
• 26:40
  Now you're talking about a serious collector car.
• 26:43
  I mean, these cars, they were limited production.
• 26:45
  They were reasonably quick for what they were.
• 26:47
  Somebody brought up the Mustang two earlier today or
• 26:50
  early on this conversation.
• 26:51
  And, you know, if you want a competitor for Mustang to Cobra, I think the
• 26:56
  Vega Cosworth absolutely outshines the Mustang and I'm a Ford guy, but
• 27:01
  that Cosworth Vega was something else.
• 27:02
  It was a fantastic little car.
• 27:04
  And again, on the collective market, just because they're rare.
• 27:07
  Just because there's not many of them and because they have that
• 27:09
  performance pedigree with, you know, European influence, that is a
• 27:13
  fantastic car and they're not overly expensive, even in mint condition.
• 27:17
  They're really, really not.
• 27:18
  So since you went there and you're talking about European influences,
• 27:21
  do you consider the Capri?
• 27:23
  Not the Fox body Capri, the German Ford Capri, a muscle car or a sports car.
• 27:29
  No, I would consider it a sporty car.
• 27:31
  Absolutely.
• 27:31
  I love the Capri.
• 27:32
  The original Capri is 69.
• 27:35
  I think with the first one that they built turned into a hatchback
• 27:38
  somewhere in the mid seventies.
• 27:39
  And then at some point it got turned into a Mustang for Mercury.
• 27:43
  Which, you know, that's a whole different conversation, but the
• 27:45
  original European version of it, I don't think they're muscle cars,
• 27:49
  but I think they're sporty cars.
• 27:50
  And they were designed by one of the original Mustang designers, Europe wanted
• 27:54
  a Mustang, and that was going to be Capri.
• 27:56
  It didn't do anywhere near as well as the American Mustang did.
• 28:00
  But it did very well in, in giving Americans an idea of, Hey, wait a minute.
• 28:04
  We could have a sporty little compact, fun little car, but no, I don't think
• 28:09
  it'd be fair to compare that as a muscle car, not at all for products.
• 28:12
  Again, Mercury Cougar and Ford Thunderbird.
• 28:15
  Okay.
• 28:16
  And maybe like even.
• 28:17
  Toward the Buick Riviera, we're always transitioning a little bit bigger
• 28:20
  car, but still lots of performance.
• 28:22
  And I think that probably would fit into our category, too.
• 28:24
  If we're going to throw Ford under the bus there to talk about them, I'm surprised
• 28:28
  nobody's brought up Gran Torino just yet.
• 28:30
  And I'm surprised nobody's brought up Fairlane kind of goes back
• 28:33
  to the 60s with the 390s and the 427s in terms of off the radar.
• 28:38
  Both of those cars are fantastic first time cars because they
• 28:42
  are kind of off the radar.
• 28:43
  And let's face it, when it comes to those muscle cars, when it comes
• 28:47
  to those performance car, for some reason, Chevy always outshines Ford.
• 28:52
  And that pushes their values up a little bit.
• 28:54
  Usually not always, but usually, and when you talk about grand Torino,
• 28:57
  or you talk about fair lane, you can get a really nice bargain muscle car.
• 29:02
  That again, when you pull up to a cars and coffee, once you get over
• 29:05
  the starts again, Hutch jokes, you know, they're a damn nice car.
• 29:08
  So I was going to add on to the European influence, it's still, it's Blackhawk,
• 29:12
  you know, unfortunately, I don't support that, but I got to throw it out.
• 29:17
  The Elvis car.
• 29:18
  Now you're talking my language.
• 29:20
  What have you done?
• 29:22
  What have you done?
• 29:23
  I knew I liked you, Dan.
• 29:24
  I knew I liked you.
• 29:26
  He opened Pandora's box.
• 29:29
  It's party time, boys.
• 29:32
  And Eric, we can bring the Canadians in because most of those cars
• 29:35
  were built on a Pontiac chassis.
• 29:37
  Just saying.
• 29:37
  They were so, 1st of all, I'm going to ignore the studs comment, because that's
• 29:41
  just going to get us into trouble.
• 29:42
  But there are some undervalued underappreciated Fords.
• 29:46
  And 1 of them that came to mind in doing some additional research on.
• 29:49
  This was the Maverick not to be confused with the new pickup truck.
• 29:53
  But again, going back to this javelin Vega.
• 29:56
  Yeah, kind of style of card that you shoehorn a 3 0 2 in that and give it
• 30:02
  a little bit more oomph and suddenly you've got this muscular vehicle.
• 30:07
  Yeah, and if you wanted to go a little classier, you could always go
• 30:09
  with the comet, which was Mercury's sister product to the Ford Maverick.
• 30:14
  I don't know that they didn't, but I don't know that they ever had
• 30:16
  something like the Grabber, but it was the same basic formula, a little 302.
• 30:21
  You could even get a four speed with those cars.
• 30:23
  So was that the same marketing that they used for the Bobcat?
• 30:26
  Oh, it's the Pinto's more upscale version.
• 30:31
  I got all sweaters, baby.
• 30:33
  Brad, take a drink just from your big bottle so we cheer up a
• 30:36
  little bit over here, will you?
• 30:38
  There we go.
• 30:38
  That's what I'm talking about.
• 30:40
  You know, I'm not a Maverick fan.
• 30:41
  I struggle.
• 30:42
  I really do.
• 30:43
  I prefer the clippers myself.
• 30:45
  I don't see the lines on the outside.
• 30:48
  The interior is bad even for its time.
• 30:51
  That's saying something.
• 30:52
  It is.
• 30:53
  And again, the Javelin is a sexier car if we're going to
• 30:57
  go really going to go there.
• 30:58
  Yes.
• 30:59
  But the Maverick.
• 31:00
  It has potential because you're right.
• 31:03
  And what I see in it is sort of like they liked what they were
• 31:07
  doing with the Capri and then they found a way to make it worse.
• 31:11
  'cause it has that sort of Capri look to it.
• 31:14
  Especially when you're looking at the side glass.
• 31:16
  'cause it has mm-hmm.
• 31:17
  the way it kicks back.
• 31:18
  Yeah.
• 31:18
  Yeah.
• 31:18
  It's just, it's sort of there.
• 31:20
  And those, the round headlights, capris ugly sister.
• 31:24
  To use Adonism, yes.
• 31:25
  But you know, if you look at her with the right light on
• 31:28
  the prairie, We drink enough.
• 31:29
  When it's last call, you're at the bar.
• 31:32
  You need to take over.
• 31:32
  Just keep drinking.
• 31:33
  It gets easier.
• 31:34
  You'll love Maverick after a few of those big bottles like Brad has.
• 31:38
  You'll love it.
• 31:39
  That goes just with the whole period though.
• 31:40
  They're all sort of slightly terrible.
• 31:43
  Right.
• 31:43
  But you got to look at it for the potential.
• 31:45
  I see this as like we were talking about you shoehorn, uh, Coyote in this.
• 31:49
  And suddenly this is an exciting car.
• 31:52
  Well, then remember too, not that I don't love the Coyote.
• 31:56
  Believe me, I do.
• 31:56
  I think that's a fantastic engine.
• 31:59
  But in this day and age, you don't need that much motor.
• 32:02
  You really don't.
• 32:03
  There are so many great four cylinder turbos.
• 32:05
  So many great V6 is out there right now that are spinning 400 horsepower.
• 32:09
  When I was stationed out in New Mexico, one of the guys that worked
• 32:13
  with had a sixties Mercury Cougar.
• 32:16
  They want to put in a three or two out of a Fox body into it.
• 32:20
  And then to give it a little bit extra pep, he found one of the
• 32:22
  Paxman right on to where it didn't even show from above the hood.
• 32:26
  It was a nice peppy older car.
• 32:28
  You know, he was running skinny 14 inch tires, so it burned the tires
• 32:32
  off of it every day, but it was fun to take out and ride around it.
• 32:35
  If you're looking at that kind of Andrew's canvas perspective, you
• 32:39
  know, I mean, the Panther chassis launched at the end of the Malays era.
• 32:43
  Did it really?
• 32:44
  Well, was that the LTD at that point or was that a different chassis?
• 32:47
  That was the LTD.
• 32:49
  LTD, Mercury Marquis in 79 through those years.
• 32:52
  And you get some two doors.
• 32:54
  If I had more space.
• 32:56
  Not to go backwards, but I like the idea of a two door land yacht.
• 32:59
  It's just so obscene.
• 33:02
  It's just ridiculous that I need a 24 foot long car with two doors.
• 33:07
  It's kind of amazing.
• 33:09
  It's like everything that was right about America.
• 33:12
  And just on four wheels, what that reminded me of was just
• 33:16
  why are muscle cars cool?
• 33:17
  It's because they don't look like anything that you can buy today.
• 33:20
  So if you have something like you said, 22 feet long with seven foot
• 33:24
  long doors, you can't buy that anymore.
• 33:26
  And so you have a completely different car experience by whether it's fast or not.
• 33:30
  If it runs, it's just automatically something that again, you could drive home
• 33:34
  and not see anything like it all day long.
• 33:36
  So.
• 33:37
  I'd ask why is the first time buyer interested in a muscle car, whether
• 33:40
  it's malaise or classic, maybe everyone falls in love with the classic things.
• 33:43
  I'm sitting with a replica of a Shelby Cobra in my garage.
• 33:46
  So like I know about going after the poster child or whatever, 72
• 33:50
  Eldorado I saw on the road today.
• 33:52
  I couldn't help but stare because.
• 33:54
  Those lines, those fins, the taillights are all in your face
• 33:57
  that doesn't happen anymore.
• 33:58
  Everything today is built for fuel economy and, and building 50, 000 of them.
• 34:02
  If it tickles your fancy, that's, I think what's more important
• 34:05
  than is it a special edition?
• 34:06
  Again, I would go for something that's as complete and mechanically
• 34:09
  sound as possible for the first time collector and then enjoy it.
• 34:12
  For any of those big land yacht, two door cars, any first time buyers.
• 34:16
  One of the things I'm going to recommend is check the door hinge bushings because
• 34:21
  those doors weighing a million pounds.
• 34:24
  Would wear out those bushings and it's just one of those things
• 34:27
  that's inevitable to happen.
• 34:28
  And if you're parking downhill, hold the handle when you open it, because
• 34:30
  if not, it's going to go and it's going to rock the whole car to the side.
• 34:33
  Sound advice.
• 34:34
  Do they weigh a million pounds?
• 34:35
  There was no side impact crash testing.
• 34:38
  But you didn't need it because they were all made out of lead.
• 34:42
  And real steel.
• 34:43
  It's like hitting the Brinks truck.
• 34:45
  I mean, come on.
• 34:46
  I'm going to go out on a limb here a little bit.
• 34:47
  I don't know about you guys, but For some reason, thanks to Facebook and
• 34:51
  thanks to the magazine, a lot of my friends these days are in their twenties
• 34:55
  and early thirties, and I got to tell you, it's absolutely amazing talking to
• 34:58
  some of these guys because I'm a member of four or five Lincoln mark forums.
• 35:03
  Uh, and it's amazing how many of those guys are in their twenties
• 35:06
  and then their thirties and they are digging these Lincoln mark.
• 35:10
  Three, four, five, the six is kind of a lost child, but it
• 35:14
  has its own cult following.
• 35:16
  And then there's a seven, which forget about it.
• 35:19
  The seven was probably the best car that Ford ever built here nor there.
• 35:22
  What amazes me and, you know, in my driveway.
• 35:25
  You know, Andrew, you brought up your Cobra.
• 35:27
  I'm going to see your Cobra, and I'm going to match it with a 79 Caprice Classic.
• 35:30
  Two tone brown with a velour interior and plush carpeting.
• 35:34
  I seriously have it.
• 35:35
  It's sitting in my driveway.
• 35:36
  It's my godfather's car.
• 35:37
  I bought it brand new.
• 35:37
  I inherited it.
• 35:38
  I've loved it ever since I was a little kid.
• 35:41
  It's slower than anything.
• 35:42
  It is literally, I I've got a Fiat that I think could probably
• 35:46
  outrun it any day of the week.
• 35:48
  Again, it's, it's a factory five, but I've taken this road
• 35:50
  and started to a few car shows.
• 35:52
  I'll park and leave it.
• 35:53
  And people look at it and everything like that.
• 35:54
  And they ask questions or whatever, but I geek out over like.
• 35:57
  Uh, mint condition Pontiac Fiero, the GT.
• 36:00
  And I'm like, cause again, where do you see it?
• 36:02
  I know my replica is number 7, 000 something.
• 36:04
  So there's 15, 000 of them out there now, but how many legitimate
• 36:09
  period correct, good condition Fieros are there can't be that many.
• 36:12
  They didn't come in good condition from the factory.
• 36:14
  So I think the answer to that is zero.
• 36:16
  Yeah.
• 36:17
  And see Brad had a Mark eight.
• 36:18
  Brad is turning me on right there.
• 36:20
  That's right.
• 36:20
  That was a hell of a car in its day.
• 36:22
  Incredible car.
• 36:23
  MN 12 platform was my first car.
• 36:26
  I had an 89 Thunderbird sc.
• 36:28
  Nice.
• 36:29
  Do you have five speed or the automatic?
• 36:30
  Five speed.
• 36:31
  Nice.
• 36:31
  Very, very cool.
• 36:32
  You used to autocross it too.
• 36:34
  You used to auto.
• 36:34
  I did.
• 36:35
  That's how, that's how I met Eric.
• 36:36
  I learned to drive in my dad's market eight . Isn't that kind of a
• 36:39
  big car to be out crossing though?
• 36:40
  The Thunderbird?
• 36:41
  Yeah.
• 36:41
  Very.
• 36:42
  Okay.
• 36:43
  All right.
• 36:43
  Guys, Don, that's right.
• 36:45
  That's true.
• 36:45
  Big guys drive big cars.
• 36:47
  I can fit with you, but maybe this is off track.
• 36:49
  You've got a Cobra replica.
• 36:51
  I've always wanted a three 56 speeds to replica, but growing
• 36:54
  up replicas were kind of shunned.
• 36:56
  You didn't have those unless you were a cheap, poor bastard who couldn't
• 37:00
  afford anything and we're going to make fun of you because we can.
• 37:03
  So I always kind of avoided it, but I've noticed in recent years, and maybe the.
• 37:07
  Quality too has gone up so well that that's what's forgiven them having a
• 37:11
  Cobra replica, having a Porsche replica, having even just a kit car that, you
• 37:15
  know, out of some guy's head that he designed over a something chassis.
• 37:20
  That's suddenly now very cool.
• 37:22
  That's actually okay.
• 37:23
  Remember the TV show, hard castle and McCormick, the coyote X yeah.
• 37:27
  Which was, if I'm not mistaken, I was designed to look like a McLaren race car.
• 37:31
  I remember watching that show.
• 37:33
  I love that show.
• 37:34
  I was young, but I remember my dad.
• 37:36
  And I remember all of his friends, Oh, it's just a VW.
• 37:39
  It's just a blah, blah, blah.
• 37:41
  It's just a, but I kept thinking, I don't care about how slow or how fast it is.
• 37:44
  It looks so cool.
• 37:46
  There's something to say, like if you want to take a fiberglass body and
• 37:49
  put it on a Fiero or a VW bug, like you said, that's not all that special.
• 37:53
  I mean, but a modern kit car is a scratch built tube chassis with.
• 37:56
  Fox body or SM 95 suspension, serious cars.
• 38:00
  And that's why I said my outlook on this topic would be basically
• 38:03
  like anything's a kit car.
• 38:04
  If you look at it, right, that might be a really good piece of advice, you know?
• 38:08
  Cause the one nice thing about those kit cars too, even the coyote is cheesy as
• 38:11
  it may have been back in the eighties.
• 38:13
  Okay.
• 38:13
  So it was built on a 69 VW beetle.
• 38:15
  Guess what guys, you don't have to smog it because it's on a 69 VW beetle.
• 38:20
  So if you can figure out how to engineer a little more horsepower
• 38:23
  to that, Oh, do I hear echo tech?
• 38:25
  Do I hear EcoBoost?
• 38:26
  Do I hear those four cylinder turbos that are being made today?
• 38:30
  Oh my god, what that little Coyote could do today.
• 38:33
  And you don't have to smog it.
• 38:34
  You don't have to do anything with it because it was built in 69 or whenever
• 38:37
  the Beatles platform was built.
• 38:39
  What was that other kit car that was really popular in the late 70s, early 80s
• 38:42
  that sort of looked like a Duesenberg?
• 38:44
  I used to call it as a kid like the Cruella de Villemobile.
• 38:47
  They had the Clemé and they had the Excalibur.
• 38:49
  That's it.
• 38:50
  The Excalibur.
• 38:51
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  Matt Houston drove one.
• 38:52
  Remember?
• 38:53
  Sorry.
• 38:54
  I had to bring him up again.
• 38:55
  Since we brought up Luxo boats, we talked about kid cars.
• 38:58
  I want to go back to Mark again, because I think he's right.
• 39:01
  We could probably wax poetic about the Cadillac Broem and how it could tow 11,
• 39:05
  000 pounds and all this awesome stuff and the land out top that comes with it.
• 39:09
  But there's a compromise car.
• 39:12
  And I said, we were going to revisit AMC again.
• 39:14
  So I want to throw out for your consideration, the AMC.
• 39:19
  Rebel.
• 39:20
  Oh, yeah.
• 39:21
  Yeah.
• 39:21
  Oh, totally.
• 39:22
  Absolutely.
• 39:23
  That was a car that was really under the radar back then.
• 39:25
  I mean, it was competing against the Chargers and G body GM cars.
• 39:29
  That was definitely a performer.
• 39:31
  And it fits Mark's recipe.
• 39:33
  It's a big car, two doors, big motor.
• 39:37
  Are you sure it's a yacht or are you sure it's a muscle car?
• 39:41
  Is it malaise?
• 39:42
  I think it checks all three boxes.
• 39:43
  This thing is enormous.
• 39:45
  Eric, there are classifications.
• 39:46
  There's Yacht, there's Super Yacht, and there's Mega Yacht.
• 39:51
  So I think the Rebel is definitely a Yacht, okay?
• 39:54
  Your Mark 5s, your Mark 4s, that's a Super Yacht.
• 39:56
  The Mega Yacht, of course, is the Stuts, which you're not
• 39:59
  allowing us to talk about.
• 40:00
  No, no.
• 40:02
  Again, in the AMC, there's so many things.
• 40:05
  There's a lot of bad, but there's a lot of good.
• 40:08
  And I think that's the brand that has just kind of been forgotten because
• 40:11
  they've got absorbed into Chrysler years later that people don't think about it
• 40:15
  as being a front running American brand.
• 40:18
  There's a couple other cars I want to mention in that camp kind of as
• 40:21
  we go along, but I want to stay on this train of thought because Rob
• 40:24
  brought up a car, the Buick Riviera.
• 40:27
  The Boattail.
• 40:28
  I love the Boattail Riviera.
• 40:29
  That being said, so does everybody else, but there's another vehicle
• 40:33
  much like the Rebel, especially in its aesthetic, which is the underappreciated
• 40:38
  and often forgotten Buick Wildcat.
• 40:42
  Yes, that was a land yacht.
• 40:44
  It was that a mega yacht Don.
• 40:46
  Yeah, I think that's a mega yacht.
• 40:48
  Yeah, I think that's a mega yacht and my cousin's dad had 1 and I tell
• 40:51
  you what, it was a 2 car garage, you know, nose to tail 2 car.
• 40:54
  It took up every inch of that 2 car garage, but yeah.
• 40:58
  Hard top sort of a fastback had that Riviera look to it.
• 41:01
  His was red with a black interior, really cool car.
• 41:04
  Every time we go over there, you'd be like, ah, one of these
• 41:06
  days I'm going to fix this thing.
• 41:07
  If I recall that at a big block in it too.
• 41:10
  So there's a lot of power buried in some of these cars too.
• 41:14
  Like your point, you just look at it and you go, yeah, look at that.
• 41:16
  Brick on wheels, you know, what am I supposed to do with this yacht?
• 41:18
  But I think you can do a lot with it.
• 41:20
  And it circles back to the point earlier, Dan was saying, you know, the horsepower
• 41:24
  numbers are 18 percent or 10 percent lower than what they actually are in the dyno.
• 41:29
  But 10 percent of 180.
• 41:31
  Let's do the math.
• 41:32
  We're still under 200 horsepower, but you're still looking at 6.
• 41:37
  6 liters of Detroit iron in a Trans Am as an example.
• 41:40
  So how much power is actually buried in that motor?
• 41:43
  A thousand horsepower without turbos, without anything with the proper build.
• 41:47
  And let's remember Eric horsepower is how hard you hit the wall.
• 41:51
  Torque is how far you push the wall.
• 41:54
  And that's really what it's all about.
• 41:55
  And when you bring in the 6.
• 41:57
  6 back into it, the 6.
• 41:58
  6 only had, if I remember correctly, it was either 190 or 200 horsepower.
• 42:01
  It was very anemic for those late seventies, but for those late
• 42:06
  seventies, that was damn good power.
• 42:08
  But it was in the torque that was where that 400 had a lot of gumption.
• 42:12
  So off the line, it could really go, but you're right.
• 42:14
  The 400 had more potential than almost any other engine in the day.
• 42:19
  The thing about the 400 engine was you could take parts from
• 42:22
  prior year cars, the heads.
• 42:24
  You could change all these things around other things that you could
• 42:27
  put together to build that engine.
• 42:29
  Even though it was a late seventies model, you can make it
• 42:31
  like an early super duty motor.
• 42:33
  If you had the right part.
• 42:34
  When GTO first was introduced to the media, it didn't do well, you
• 42:39
  know, road and tracker motor trend.
• 42:41
  One of the two did test with it and the performance was not that great.
• 42:44
  It was kind of poo pooed in the report, Jim Wangers, the marketing
• 42:47
  guy, as well as John DeLorean.
• 42:50
  And there was one other guy involved in this little trickery that they
• 42:53
  did, but they grabbed the red car.
• 42:54
  It was a red GTO.
• 42:56
  They pulled the 389 out and they just put in a 421 because the 421
• 43:01
  visually look exactly the same.
• 43:03
  And that goes to what you're saying about the heads and all the
• 43:06
  interchangeability of those cars.
• 43:07
  It was really pretty fascinating what they could do with those cars.
• 43:10
  You didn't mention the 455 that also came out of them in the late seventies.
• 43:13
  Which was their big block, which was some point, some leader engine.
• 43:16
  We don't mention those Dan, because they make us cry because they still only make
• 43:20
  200 horsepower with more displacement.
• 43:22
  The torque.
• 43:23
  It's got tractor torque.
• 43:25
  Yeah.
• 43:25
  That's a cam shafts, cam swap away.
• 43:27
  The last 455 though, for Trans Am at least was 76.
• 43:31
  That was the last time that they did Trans Am.
• 43:33
  In fact, I might even be wrong about that.
• 43:34
  It might've been 75, but I think it was 76 that they had that.
• 43:38
  You're right.
• 43:39
  It was 76.
• 43:40
  And that for 76, come on, you're still putting out a four 55.
• 43:44
  Who else was doing that?
• 43:46
  Nobody.
• 43:46
  You look at the four 55 and those will be able to through 75 as well.
• 43:51
  They use that bigger engine because they had to make up for the lack
• 43:54
  of power in the smaller motors.
• 43:56
  That was the key thing about the malaise period.
• 43:58
  Then wasn't it the Trans Am four 55.
• 44:00
  I mean, it was making good power up through 74.
• 44:03
  It was like the last one.
• 44:05
  Like the 74 455 made almost 300 horse.
• 44:08
  If you have the same model, that's true.
• 44:10
  But the, the lesser ones didn't have as much power.
• 44:13
  You still had a four 55.
• 44:15
  I mean, my God, it's incredible to me to think in those mid seventies and a trans
• 44:19
  am they're putting out the four 55s that, that to me, you know, Ford had the four 60
• 44:24
  Chrysler had the four 40, you know, Brad, you've got a picture of a Cordova up there
• 44:28
  and I'm really glad because I don't want to go there now, unless you guys want to.
• 44:31
  I want to say that my grandmother had.
• 44:34
  Like Cordova, and she used to race people from traffic light
• 44:37
  to traffic light all the time.
• 44:38
  Pretty slow race.
• 44:39
  I'll tell you, you know, if you knew how to use them, they weren't all that bad.
• 44:43
  I had an aunt who had a Cordova, and she also had a Magnum,
• 44:46
  and she was a drag racer.
• 44:47
  And I'll tell you, that girl could really lay it down with those two beasts.
• 44:52
  But you had to know how to use them.
• 44:54
  And let's face it, you probably couldn't do what you were doing
• 44:57
  much with straight from the factory.
• 44:59
  You had to do a few tricks to it, but they could move, but somebody
• 45:03
  brought up these limited editions.
• 45:05
  What about the Dodge Magnum XC and what would GT?
• 45:09
  And it was 1978 and 1979.
• 45:12
  And that was all they built.
• 45:13
  And the whole reason for it was aerodynamics for
• 45:15
  NASCAR, because that Cordova.
• 45:18
  And the Dodge Charger, which was based on the Cordova, look at that nose.
• 45:23
  There's nothing aerodynamic about that nose.
• 45:25
  So when you put it on a NASCAR circuit, it's fighting wind
• 45:28
  the whole time it's out there.
• 45:29
  The Magnum had a little bit more of that laid back look on that front end
• 45:33
  to try to help the air go over it.
• 45:34
  It also had a higher rear end to help downforce and the
• 45:38
  Magnum was hugely underrated.
• 45:40
  But the biggest engine was a 400.
• 45:42
  And that was only in 1978, 1979, the biggest was a 360 and it was a 360 police
• 45:49
  interceptor, which was respectable where they found the 360 interceptor with a
• 45:54
  better performing magnum was a 360 weighed less than the 400 and yet it produced.
• 46:01
  Almost as much power is the 400.
• 46:04
  So there was kind of a nice trade off, but you didn't have that bragging rights.
• 46:09
  If I've got a 400 6.
• 46:10
  6 liter, no, now you're down to what is a three 60?
• 46:14
  I don't know if it'd be 5.
• 46:14
  9 liter.
• 46:15
  Tremendous card.
• 46:17
  I think you guys are right.
• 46:18
  I feel like the malaise era is riddled with experimentation.
• 46:23
  We're trying new safety things.
• 46:25
  We're trying new admissions things, you know, are we doing mechanical?
• 46:29
  Are we doing throttle body?
• 46:30
  Are we staying with carburetors?
• 46:32
  Are we doing luxury?
• 46:33
  We're not, it's all this hokey pokey and it lasted for like forever.
• 46:36
  And then what people forget is during the malaise era, the K cars were also
• 46:40
  born because we started to shift into the compact market at the same time, because.
• 46:45
  The United States is the only one still building these big cars.
• 46:49
  Whereas the Europeans had shifted to the compacts and subcompacts.
• 46:52
  I do want to talk about the K cars a little bit, only because you brought
• 46:56
  them up, Don, at the beginning.
• 46:57
  And you're right.
• 46:58
  Oh, blame me.
• 46:59
  Thanks always.
• 47:02
  You mentioned the 2.
• 47:03
  2 liter turbo charger, which shared the name and that's about it with
• 47:08
  the original charger, but it was the Daytona, the charger, the laser, they
• 47:12
  had 16 names for this thing, but you also had Shelby getting his hands in
• 47:15
  this, just like he did with the Omni creating GLHS versions of those cars.
• 47:20
  So sort of muscly, but sports cars, I'm not sure what to classify them as.
• 47:27
  But interesting, just the same.
• 47:29
  And I know it's now the drinking game if I mention a Dodge product.
• 47:31
  So here we go.
• 47:32
  I like the Daytona IROK RT.
• 47:35
  They came later, the much wider car where they finally sort of got it right before
• 47:40
  they said, okay, we're done completely.
• 47:42
  That's another car.
• 47:43
  Despite it being front wheel drive would have loved to have that been
• 47:46
  rear wheel drive would have been a great candidate in today's world
• 47:49
  of hack and slash type of car.
• 47:51
  Maybe tub the rear out, make it rear wheel drive.
• 47:54
  Put something in there.
• 47:55
  Now you got this cool looking body with a really, really neat underpinnings.
• 47:59
  Downfall to that is during that transition, they were starting
• 48:02
  to make a lot of the car's unit bodies and a lot of the unit body
• 48:06
  stuff won't hold up to the power.
• 48:08
  Remember too, when the IROC came out for Chrysler, not Chevy, when
• 48:12
  the Daytona IROC came out, the first ones still had the flippy headlights.
• 48:16
  The second generations had these oval open headlights.
• 48:20
  Those are the super, super rare ones, and nobody knows what they are
• 48:24
  outside of the Chrysler world, but those things were absolute demons.
• 48:28
  And to your point about front wheel drive, the original.
• 48:33
  Idea of the IROC RT was all wheel drive that last Daytona, they considered very
• 48:39
  hard, make it an all wheel drive car.
• 48:42
  So you have the 2.
• 48:42
  2 liter, the turbo, the intercooler.
• 48:45
  It was a 222 horsepower beast.
• 48:47
  It would spank Mustangs.
• 48:48
  It would scare the hell out of Corvettes all day long.
• 48:51
  The only Achilles heel was where the piston goes up and meets
• 48:55
  kind of the top of the head.
• 48:56
  You need to install an O ring up there because you're blowing head
• 48:59
  gaskets all day long on that car.
• 49:01
  And I don't know what that was, but I just remember everybody I've ever known with
• 49:04
  the IROC RT had to do an O ring at the top of the cylinder to alleviate pressure.
• 49:10
  Once you did that, you had a bulletproof performing car,
• 49:13
  but again, front wheel drive.
• 49:15
  But their goal initially was let's do an all wheel drive.
• 49:18
  Let's do a swan song.
• 49:20
  What killed it was it's going to be too expensive to do it.
• 49:23
  And.
• 49:24
  Why do that when we have the stealth?
• 49:25
  Well, I mean, we know how that turned out, so.
• 49:29
  I don't know.
• 49:29
  I'm a fan of the Dodge Stealth.
• 49:31
  Like, I mean, come on.
• 49:32
  It's cool.
• 49:32
  It's a cool car.
• 49:33
  A very cool car.
• 49:35
  For a Mitsubishi.
• 49:36
  Back in the day, I did like the 3000 GT.
• 49:38
  I'll take anything into the 90s.
• 49:40
  Just give me half a chance.
• 49:41
  The K cars are what they are.
• 49:43
  The Aries is never going to be a muscle car.
• 49:47
  It doesn't matter what you do to it.
• 49:48
  Now, if you show up to a Cars and Coffee with a fully restored Aries
• 49:52
  K car, I mean, I'm going to pat you on the back and say, good for you.
• 49:55
  Because I don't know the last time I saw one of those.
• 49:58
  You know, guys, it worked for Ed Rooney.
• 50:00
  I think it should work for us.
• 50:02
  It's like that Seinfeld episode, John Voigt's LeBaron.
• 50:05
  John Voigt's LeBaron.
• 50:06
  That's right.
• 50:07
  John Voigt had one.
• 50:08
  Ed Rooney had one.
• 50:09
  These are the ultimate.
• 50:11
  People that we want to hitch our stars to, you know, we want to hitch to them.
• 50:14
  And now, you know, you're right though, when you come with the
• 50:16
  Omni, the GLHS, even just the GLH, that was a hell of a performer.
• 50:21
  That early charger, you're getting into precursors.
• 50:24
  You're getting into experimentation.
• 50:25
  You're getting into what can we do with four cylinders?
• 50:29
  You know, in that same era, remember Ford had the 2.
• 50:32
  3 liter with the turbo going in the Thunderbird, going in the
• 50:34
  Cougar, going in the Mustang.
• 50:35
  I don't know what GM had going on.
• 50:38
  There's another Dodge that we've forgotten about, so I gotta
• 50:41
  walk this back a little bit.
• 50:42
  So if we rewind the clock and go, there's the dart.
• 50:45
  Always kind of forget about the Dart and not the 2016 Dart that Brad loves so much.
• 50:50
  I'm talking about the sixties and seventies Dodge Dart, and there were
• 50:53
  a lot of cool packages for that.
• 50:55
  There were some RT packages.
• 50:56
  There was the Stinger package.
• 50:57
  I often say the swinger package.
• 50:59
  You never know.
• 51:00
  There was a lot of other things that the dark came available with, and
• 51:02
  it also came with different motors.
• 51:04
  You know, you see them every once in a while, but they're not as prevalent as
• 51:07
  some of the other cars that are out there.
• 51:09
  True.
• 51:09
  And they did.
• 51:10
  And you're right.
• 51:11
  They're understated.
• 51:12
  They're underscored.
• 51:13
  They came with some great motors.
• 51:14
  I mean, they, they could be everything.
• 51:16
  A Charger or a Cuda could be no problem.
• 51:18
  But if you really want to get weird, I'll get weird with you.
• 51:21
  Oh, okay.
• 51:22
  Oh, yeah.
• 51:22
  Here we go.
• 51:23
  You ready?
• 51:23
  Oh, shit.
• 51:24
  You ready?
• 51:24
  The Dodge Aspen Roadrunner Package.
• 51:27
  Oh!
• 51:28
  1973, 1974, baby.
• 51:30
  Yeah, bring it.
• 51:31
  Bring it.
• 51:32
  Stripes galore bucket seats with some sort of wacky thing and the upholstery
• 51:37
  going on a console shift and this thing couldn't get out of its own way.
• 51:41
  It made Mustang twos look fantastic.
• 51:44
  It also had that goofy oblong steering wheel, like reminiscent
• 51:48
  of something French was completely terrible interior as well.
• 51:51
  Oh yeah, they were horrible cars, but Dart has more.
• 51:55
  Panache, yeah.
• 51:56
  More respect than the vale Aspen.
• 51:59
  Oh God.
• 51:59
  And certainly that roadrunner.
• 52:01
  And you know, again, in that same era, and I know we're not supposed to go
• 52:04
  there, but Pontiac Ventura brought out the G T O package for 1974.
• 52:10
  Love it or hated.
• 52:11
  I mean, there they were.
• 52:12
  It was the seventies, man.
• 52:13
  They were, they were trying to relive the old days, the golden days.
• 52:15
  And the only way they could do it was with a bunch of stickers.
• 52:19
  You talk about rare.
• 52:20
  And again, going back to what I was saying about all those friends
• 52:23
  of mine on Facebook are in their twenties and thirties, they dig this
• 52:27
  stuff because they're not out there.
• 52:28
  You pull into a cars and coffee with one of those.
• 52:31
  Velari Roadrunners or Aspen Roadrunner.
• 52:34
  Believe me, you're going to get laughed at, but you're also going to get a lot of
• 52:37
  respect because that car, when I went to the last time he saw one, they couldn't
• 52:41
  have built too many of those cars.
• 52:43
  So another one that they didn't build too many of that speaks
• 52:47
  to me from a racer perspective.
• 52:49
  Hope my racer aficionados here will appreciate this going again
• 52:52
  in this weird Mopar camp, if we consider AAMC in that same village.
• 52:57
  What about the spirit?
• 52:58
  And I bring up the spirit because Lynn St.
• 53:01
  James raced one and you can shove a V8 in that thing.
• 53:04
  That weird looking thing.
• 53:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:06
  It's a hatchback sort of Chirac looking thing.
• 53:08
  Yeah.
• 53:09
  I was waiting for a convention Eagle.
• 53:11
  Yeah.
• 53:11
  They had the four wheel drive at one point.
• 53:13
  Yeah.
• 53:13
  Well, that was the Eagle, the off road.
• 53:15
  I know, but same body.
• 53:16
  Wasn't it?
• 53:16
  They're very similar.
• 53:17
  They're very similar.
• 53:18
  Yes.
• 53:19
  The Eagle came in a wagon.
• 53:20
  I had an uncle that had one when I is a great segue because this
• 53:24
  is the high point in wagons.
• 53:27
  I will agree.
• 53:28
  Right?
• 53:28
  Any of these cars that we have talked about thus far is available
• 53:32
  in an estate or wagon version.
• 53:34
  So if you're a wagon, long roof society nerd, like I am, this is where you go.
• 53:39
  I mean, outside of the brown Volvo 240, this is it, man.
• 53:42
  This is Nirvana when it comes to To station where it certainly was when
• 53:46
  they sold the most wagons because they had not yet invented the minivan.
• 53:50
  That's right.
• 53:51
  But I mean, the CTSV was peak wagon.
• 53:53
  It was peak wagon only because you got to look at the rest of the wagons.
• 53:57
  I mean, if you're putting it against the Subaru Outback, I mean, yeah.
• 54:00
  Okay.
• 54:00
  You know, I'll take your eagle sport wagon against the CTSV wagon.
• 54:06
  I will agree for modern wagons, the CTS V wagon is hands down great.
• 54:10
  That's a muscle car.
• 54:11
  I mean, let's be real, right?
• 54:13
  Yeah.
• 54:13
  6.
• 54:13
  2 liters of pure pain.
• 54:15
  The HSV Commodore has something to say to that CTS V.
• 54:18
  I'm just going to put that out there.
• 54:19
  100 percent.
• 54:20
  My daily is a Chevy SS, so I've been fascinated by the Holden.
• 54:24
  Put the LS in any form factor you can name.
• 54:27
  Two door, four door, wagon, you, if you want it and you want
• 54:30
  it supercharged, they make it.
• 54:32
  They had the right idea, too bad we couldn't get more of them.
• 54:34
  You know, if we can go back in time a little bit, not to take away from
• 54:37
  your Holden SS or your AMC, whatever the hell it is you're talking
• 54:42
  about over there, Eric, Brad has an interesting car behind him there.
• 54:46
  That is a, uh, believe a 68 Ford Country Squire LTD wagon, full size with the wood,
• 54:52
  and a lot of people didn't know this.
• 54:53
  You could get those with the 428 and even the 429.
• 54:57
  If you wanted one.
• 54:58
  Now, this was a funky little area.
• 55:00
  You guys brought up station wagons.
• 55:02
  Chevrolet also had the Brookwood, which was also available with something big.
• 55:08
  I don't want to say 427, but it may have been a 427.
• 55:11
  Chrysler, of course, had their 440s in the Dodges and the Plymouth.
• 55:15
  But here are these wagons in a straight line.
• 55:18
  God help anything trying to race one of these things.
• 55:21
  Because again, Cure tour all day long.
• 55:25
  Yeah.
• 55:25
  They weighed a bit, but they actually didn't weigh all that much.
• 55:28
  So yeah.
• 55:29
  Isn't it interesting when you go station wagon hunting, you can really
• 55:32
  get some pretty cool muscle cars out of a station wagon just by the engine.
• 55:37
  And okay.
• 55:38
  AMC, Eric, I don't know much about that little wagon behind Mark, but
• 55:42
  could you get the three Oh four.
• 55:45
  Or the 401, or any of those muscular AMC engines in that they did have an
• 55:50
  inline six that has its own kind of pedigree to it all by itself, right?
• 55:55
  That's the same inline six that was used in the Jeeps and all that stuff.
• 55:58
  So that's a bulletproof engine.
• 56:00
  So let's not knock that straight six because it is what it is.
• 56:03
  Let's talk about Oldsmobile 303 V8.
• 56:06
  That car dominated NASCAR for a long time until Hudson came out with an
• 56:10
  inline six that had 10 more horsepower.
• 56:13
  Did you just say Hudson?
• 56:15
  I did.
• 56:17
  What generation are we in again?
• 56:19
  You got to roll in the district cruiser.
• 56:20
  Oh God.
• 56:23
  Windows everywhere.
• 56:24
  You have to remember the translucent roofs on the VM wagons from the
• 56:27
  late sixties and early seventies.
• 56:29
  They had their little Alexa and roof panels and they weren't real glass.
• 56:33
  Yeah.
• 56:34
  Oh, wow.
• 56:35
  Okay, I always thought they were glass.
• 56:37
  You take a Caprice, also known as the Malibu station wagon.
• 56:42
  You can make a little hot rod out of that too, if you want.
• 56:44
  So there's some options there in the Malaise period.
• 56:47
  You can get a lot of car in a wagon.
• 56:49
  You buy a nice long roof, you've got something that shows up at
• 56:51
  Cars and Coffee with some respect.
• 56:53
  I don't know about the AMCs, Eric, you might?
• 56:55
  Good luck.
• 56:56
  Uh, but, you know, let's go across the pond because Brad mentioned it.
• 57:00
  There are some foreign cars in the Malaise area that really do kind of
• 57:05
  capture the essence of the Malaise era.
• 57:08
  And they're not just the, you know, the muscle derivatives like
• 57:11
  the ESO and the Jensen and some of the cars that we talked about.
• 57:14
  There's 2 that come to mind.
• 57:15
  I'm wondering if you guys can guess what they are.
• 57:18
  What?
• 57:19
  Right in the stepping.
• 57:20
  Oh my God.
• 57:21
  Seriously?
• 57:22
  Gordon Keeble.
• 57:23
  It's English.
• 57:24
  It had a 327 under the hood, 4 speed.
• 57:27
  It was from a Corvette.
• 57:28
  It was incredible.
• 57:29
  And then of course you had the Iso Revolta, which was a sexy little
• 57:32
  car, looked like a little Maserati.
• 57:34
  I thought you were talking about some one term British parliamentarian or
• 57:39
  something, like you know, obscure facts.
• 57:41
  It looks like a Peugeot.
• 57:42
  It's not Malaysian, 64 to 67.
• 57:45
  It's not even muscle car, right?
• 57:47
  It's sort of like just whatever one of the other ones that I'm going to throw
• 57:50
  out for you guys to chomp on if we're talking foreign cars, and I think it
• 57:53
  captures the essence of malaise from the Island of Japan, the Nissan 280 ZX.
• 58:02
  That's a little bit of a hot take.
• 58:03
  I like that.
• 58:03
  I like where you're going, right?
• 58:05
  You want something different?
• 58:06
  You want something foreign?
• 58:07
  I hate to say it's in this awkward phase of the Z, but it exemplifies
• 58:12
  malaise as far as I'm concerned.
• 58:14
  It's overly luxurious.
• 58:16
  The performance isn't that great, but you could turn it in to its
• 58:20
  muscly predecessors by beefing it up, dropping some of the weight.
• 58:24
  It is a two plus two.
• 58:25
  That's part of its disadvantage when they came out with the 280 ZX.
• 58:29
  I am a great defender of the two 80 zx.
• 58:32
  I really am big shock, right guys?
• 58:33
  Yeah.
• 58:34
  Uhhuh, . Big shock.
• 58:35
  Yeah.
• 58:35
  Okay.
• 58:36
  But I, I'll just say this one thing in Defend to the two 80 zx, it's ugly.
• 58:41
  I mean, look, my dad had a two 40, I owned a three 50 z I love Z cars.
• 58:46
  That's an ugly car.
• 58:48
  It screams malaise, though.
• 58:49
  Look at it.
• 58:50
  You're right.
• 58:50
  You're right.
• 58:51
  100%.
• 58:52
  But it doesn't have the redeeming qualities of some of these cars
• 58:56
  where you're like, I like the lines.
• 58:58
  I like the stance.
• 59:00
  It's got good bones.
• 59:01
  Just rip out the emissions equipment and pull its head out of its own ass.
• 59:05
  You can't fix that.
• 59:07
  No, you can't fix what it looks like.
• 59:08
  You're right.
• 59:08
  It doesn't excite you when you look at it.
• 59:10
  It doesn't say, wow.
• 59:12
  But on a performance level, I'll tell you something.
• 59:15
  That car was only beat by one other in zero to 60 quarter mile.
• 59:19
  And that was the Ferrari 308, the Porsche and it were neck and neck.
• 59:23
  It was an incredible performer.
• 59:25
  I was shocked.
• 59:26
  And when you consider the price, it was the cheapest of that entire.
• 59:31
  Flock, it was only 17, 000 in 1981 for the turbo great performer really, really is.
• 59:37
  And I think largely what you're saying, because it is kind of ho hum because it is
• 59:42
  kind of mass produced because, and I hate to say it, but it does still have that
• 59:45
  Japanese sort of stigma attached to it.
• 59:48
  You can still get one for a veritable bargain.
• 59:50
  So for our listener who might be thinking about, I want a first time performance
• 59:55
  classic, maybe not a muscle car.
• 59:56
  I don't think it's fair to call it a muscle car.
• 59:58
  I think that's a serious contender for the era.
• 1:00:01
  I give it credit from the perspective of I put myself in the position of
• 1:00:04
  somebody in 1981 looking at this car and like as a car person, I can point
• 1:00:11
  out some of the proportions and some of the things that I don't like, but damn.
• 1:00:15
  Does this thing look like the future in a lot of ways?
• 1:00:18
  And you're like, okay, I have a hard argument to make that it's cheaper than
• 1:00:21
  like the car that came out in 84, the 300 ZX, which is just a much more sorted car.
• 1:00:29
  I think both of these things are fully depreciated.
• 1:00:32
  They're just worth the value of the metal and the fact that it's a running
• 1:00:35
  automobile and however well the person has maintained it to that point.
• 1:00:41
  I realized that I wouldn't call the 300 car.
• 1:00:45
  By any means, but it's kind of the point, you know, it's like, if you're
• 1:00:48
  going to get a Z, you're dealing with thrust and all kinds of other
• 1:00:51
  stuff with that generation of cars.
• 1:00:54
  And it's like, if you're going to deal with that kind of pain, just
• 1:00:56
  get a two 40 or just get a 300.
• 1:00:59
  I don't know.
• 1:00:59
  You struck a chord with me because I do love Z cars.
• 1:01:02
  So I get a little opinionated.
• 1:01:03
  Two forties were horrible with just falling apart with rust.
• 1:01:06
  And I didn't know if they'd fixing that with a two eighties.
• 1:01:09
  So that would be an issue.
• 1:01:10
  We're trying to find one is if they were as bad as the
• 1:01:12
  two forties with rust issues.
• 1:01:14
  And again, if you do find one, it brings up that cool conversation point
• 1:01:18
  at cars and coffee of, wow, I haven't seen one of these in a long time.
• 1:01:21
  How'd you find it?
• 1:01:21
  Where'd you find it?
• 1:01:22
  How do you like it?
• 1:01:23
  You know, and, and at this point too, you know, they say time heals all wounds.
• 1:01:26
  Okay.
• 1:01:27
  Mark, you can't get away from, I'm not going to say it's ugly.
• 1:01:30
  I disagree with that, but it isn't an exciting looking car.
• 1:01:34
  It's not something that really, wow.
• 1:01:36
  I got to have one of those, you know, for some reason, the Japanese
• 1:01:40
  cars, I still don't think they've quite figured out how to make a.
• 1:01:43
  Oh, look at that.
• 1:01:44
  You know, you've got lexus out there with these freaked out front ends
• 1:01:47
  and these weird little haunches And and I think really they're just
• 1:01:50
  like how weird can we go here guys?
• 1:01:52
  But yeah mark, you're right the 300 there's e31 that first edition.
• 1:01:57
  That was a much better car Then the 280, which was still trying
• 1:02:02
  to be a 240, but it wasn't, it was trying to be a luxurious car.
• 1:02:05
  It really did work for 1981.
• 1:02:07
  It was a great car.
• 1:02:08
  So I struggled in my research to find foreign vehicles that really
• 1:02:13
  fit the definition of either a muscle car or a malaise car.
• 1:02:17
  And so obviously the 280ZX fits the category of malaise.
• 1:02:20
  It was built in the right time.
• 1:02:22
  It has that luxury over performance thing, despite its aesthetics and all that.
• 1:02:26
  There are two other cars.
• 1:02:28
  That I found, but not much else.
• 1:02:30
  And please, if you have some suggestions for European or Japanese by all
• 1:02:34
  means, but I'm going to throw these out there for you, the big baddie.
• 1:02:37
  The muscle and malaise car of the era, whether you look at it from
• 1:02:41
  under the hood, from the outside, from its interior is going to be
• 1:02:45
  the granddaddy of them all the nine 28 followed by its littlest sister.
• 1:02:50
  The 924, both of these cars scream middle seventies.
• 1:02:55
  They exemplify the malaise.
• 1:02:57
  They're probably the only true malaise cars from the German manufacturers or
• 1:03:01
  the European manufacturers as a whole.
• 1:03:03
  So I'm just throwing those out there.
• 1:03:06
  It's fighting, fighting words.
• 1:03:07
  Bring it, bring it.
• 1:03:08
  Everybody loves the hate on the 924.
• 1:03:11
  That's an easy one.
• 1:03:11
  I mean, if you look at the history of the 924.
• 1:03:14
  Porsche didn't intend to make that car for themselves, right?
• 1:03:17
  It was a consulting gig that VW walked away from.
• 1:03:20
  And so they said, screw it.
• 1:03:21
  Fine.
• 1:03:21
  We'll make it.
• 1:03:22
  And the 928.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, I have to take issue with that.
• 1:03:25
  So we've talked about in other episodes that like the greatest nineties car is
• 1:03:29
  a Dodge Viper from the two thousands.
• 1:03:32
  Like some things cross their decade.
• 1:03:34
  And I would say the 928 is an eighties car and they.
• 1:03:37
  Launched in the seventies and they made it to the mid nineties, but it is a
• 1:03:41
  quintessential eighties car, like when you look at it and like, yeah, okay.
• 1:03:47
  I mean, in 85 with the 32 valve, it kind of a lot better in the late seventies.
• 1:03:51
  They had challenges, I guess, homologating it, you know, getting it through into
• 1:03:55
  the United States, you know, which they didn't really fix until 85.
• 1:03:59
  But fair for people to disagree with me.
• 1:04:01
  I don't think of the nine 28 as a malaise car.
• 1:04:04
  See, I beg to differ four and a half liters that made no power, even though
• 1:04:08
  it was better power than everybody else.
• 1:04:10
  I mean, from a German perspective, it was an underperforming engine.
• 1:04:14
  It's so get the gray market, like import one, like bring it in
• 1:04:17
  through the Harbor, the best night.
• 1:04:19
  Early 928 is an LS swap 928.
• 1:04:21
  I'm just going to say it.
• 1:04:22
  But if you've ever sat in an early 928.
• 1:04:25
  No, I can't say I've sat in a seventies 928.
• 1:04:27
  They reek of the Malaysia era.
• 1:04:29
  Not in the way the Americans did it, where it was like, we're going to put gold leaf
• 1:04:33
  and it's all sorts of trim everywhere.
• 1:04:35
  That's.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah, it was like big, you know, just knobbly, nasty, just big buttons,
• 1:04:43
  like something out of like a play school, you know, cozy coop kind
• 1:04:47
  of thing like a big, a big gig.
• 1:04:50
  Exactly.
• 1:04:50
  And then they have like, he's just God awful interiors and some people love him.
• 1:04:55
  Don't get me wrong.
• 1:04:56
  I'm not a big fan of like the Pasha.
• 1:04:58
  Sort of houndstooth, sort of checkerboard interior, or the blue
• 1:05:02
  jean, or some of these weird tartans that they were trying to come out with.
• 1:05:06
  That's just cool though.
• 1:05:07
  Come on.
• 1:05:08
  You can just get leather.
• 1:05:09
  Don't be poor.
• 1:05:10
  Get leather.
• 1:05:11
  I think it's hilarious that you're saying the original 928 interior was bad.
• 1:05:16
  Have you looked at the interior pictures of every other car
• 1:05:19
  we've talked about tonight?
• 1:05:21
  Oh, they're horrendous.
• 1:05:22
  By comparison, the 928's amazing.
• 1:05:24
  Of course it is.
• 1:05:26
  Because it's a fortune.
• 1:05:27
  But no, in all seriousness, I also bring up the 928 because if you listen to the
• 1:05:32
  interviews with the early designers of the 928, they said they took their inspiration
• 1:05:36
  from all things the AMC Pacer, right?
• 1:05:39
  So you're sort of like, ah, so here we are.
• 1:05:41
  That's it.
• 1:05:42
  My background is a 1978 928 interior.
• 1:05:46
  Is it perfect?
• 1:05:47
  No.
• 1:05:48
  Is it 10 times better, like add a zero better to every
• 1:05:51
  other American car from 1978?
• 1:05:53
  Yes.
• 1:05:54
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:05:55
  Are those AC vents on the door?
• 1:05:58
  Yes.
• 1:05:58
  They did that for a while.
• 1:06:00
  That's luxury, baby.
• 1:06:02
  That's amazing.
• 1:06:03
  It's personalization.
• 1:06:04
  That gives you that cockpit.
• 1:06:05
  You were a fighter pilot, and that's your personal, you know, air device.
• 1:06:09
  I wouldn't fit in that, but it looks great, Mark.
• 1:06:11
  I think you picked one of the better looking pictures because I'd pulled
• 1:06:14
  that up and was looking at, and there's a bunch of them on here to
• 1:06:16
  the just, maybe it's just the color schemes that just, I don't know.
• 1:06:19
  They just don't do it for me.
• 1:06:20
  Oh yeah.
• 1:06:20
  I mean, they do some crazy stuff though.
• 1:06:22
  The whole black and white like Salvador Dali interior, which
• 1:06:26
  that's just my name for it.
• 1:06:27
  That's insane.
• 1:06:29
  Am I correct?
• 1:06:29
  I'm looking at that, that the handbrake is actually next to the door.
• 1:06:32
  Yes.
• 1:06:33
  It's that way in the 944 as well.
• 1:06:34
  Interesting.
• 1:06:35
  And even the C4 does that.
• 1:06:37
  Correct.
• 1:06:38
  And my jeep, the handbrake is a pedal on that side too.
• 1:06:40
  It's like, not uncommon.
• 1:06:42
  Well, I'm used to handbrakes being in the center.
• 1:06:44
  That's, that's what threw me off.
• 1:06:45
  Yeah.
• 1:06:46
  It's, it's different.
• 1:06:46
  It's weird.
• 1:06:47
  It gets in the way of moving the seat too.
• 1:06:48
  It's super annoying.
• 1:06:51
  Yes, exactly.
• 1:06:52
  Dart's got it.
• 1:06:53
  I'm ready for my malaise.
• 1:06:57
  Uh, yes, I own one of the gentlemen that was made out of an old nine 28.
• 1:07:04
  That's what he's not telling you.
• 1:07:05
  And it tastes awful.
• 1:07:07
  I'll tell you.
• 1:07:08
  Tastes awful balls.
• 1:07:09
  Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  So yes, to Dan's point, you pick the nicest representation of a nine 28.
• 1:07:15
  Go find like the Daytona interior or go find the Pasha interior.
• 1:07:20
  Go find like the pumpkin interior.
• 1:07:22
  Like dude, they're ridiculous.
• 1:07:23
  Like psychedelic.
• 1:07:25
  Nonsense.
• 1:07:26
  I love the posh interior.
• 1:07:27
  I do.
• 1:07:28
  There, there, there, there.
• 1:07:28
  Mark has it right there.
• 1:07:30
  It looks like a, like I'm in a psychology exam.
• 1:07:32
  It's trippy.
• 1:07:33
  It's trippy.
• 1:07:33
  There's no accounting for taste.
• 1:07:35
  Like some people, they did enough drugs that they thought that was cool.
• 1:07:38
  It was the seventies.
• 1:07:39
  There was disco.
• 1:07:40
  You're still picking one that looks decent.
• 1:07:41
  Go with the tan interior with the black and white checker center.
• 1:07:44
  And it's just.
• 1:07:45
  It just doesn't go together.
• 1:07:47
  I was going to say, we're in the Twilight Zone with that interior.
• 1:07:49
  It's terrible.
• 1:07:50
  It's terrible.
• 1:07:51
  And again, it's these big, just chunky, funky, everything
• 1:07:55
  is just for German standards.
• 1:07:57
  It's just, yeah.
• 1:07:58
  And if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pasha 928,
• 1:08:03
  wasn't that only available one year?
• 1:08:05
  It was like a special edition.
• 1:08:06
  And again, it kind of goes right back to what I was saying originally,
• 1:08:09
  which is flash and panache.
• 1:08:12
  Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  Where's the glitter?
• 1:08:13
  You know, we're not going to go real fast.
• 1:08:14
  We know that, but we don't want you to think about that.
• 1:08:16
  We want you to think you're in a really cool car.
• 1:08:18
  You know, I'm a 928 guy.
• 1:08:20
  I've always loved 928.
• 1:08:21
  I got nothing against 924.
• 1:08:23
  I think they're fine cars.
• 1:08:24
  Weird, but they do their job.
• 1:08:26
  If I can shift gears here a little bit on you, Eric.
• 1:08:29
  You wanted to go across the pond and talk about some, uh, European
• 1:08:32
  and Japanese malaise crap.
• 1:08:35
  I'd like to bring up the X J S that is a good point to me is the European
• 1:08:43
  equivalent of a Cordova it's got its fine Corinthian will tonight,
• 1:08:48
  leather, whatever would everywhere.
• 1:08:50
  It has flying buttresses out the rear end.
• 1:08:52
  It doesn't run worth crap.
• 1:08:54
  A lot of people argue with me about that.
• 1:08:55
  I love that.
• 1:08:56
  But that.
• 1:08:56
  It's like me saying Fiat's are reliable.
• 1:08:58
  They run really well.
• 1:08:59
  If you go to Jags that run.
• 1:09:01
  com because they're all Chevy swap.
• 1:09:03
  They're amazing.
• 1:09:04
  50s.
• 1:09:04
  Yeah.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:06
  Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  And that's where we bring Andrew in on there.
• 1:09:08
  I'm just looking at the XJS now and I'm looking at it and seeing all
• 1:09:11
  this like kind of rear weighted swept B pillar back to the tail lights.
• 1:09:15
  I'm like, I'm seeing Chevelle.
• 1:09:17
  I'm seeing classic what I consider to be muscle car lines.
• 1:09:20
  There's nothing wrong with that.
• 1:09:21
  You may have to put.
• 1:09:22
  Everything underneath it may have to get replaced, but again, I'll say it
• 1:09:26
  one more time, you buy a classic car because it looks like a classic car.
• 1:09:30
  You're not buying it because it's more luxurious.
• 1:09:33
  It's got better features.
• 1:09:34
  Nothing's going to work the way a modern card is, but it's going to be different.
• 1:09:37
  And there's a great example of if you're willing to put the work
• 1:09:40
  into it, that's pretty damn cool.
• 1:09:41
  It goes back to when you roll into a carton coffee and you've
• 1:09:44
  got an XJS, especially an early one, holy cow, you've got gold.
• 1:09:48
  You really do, because nobody sees these cars anymore.
• 1:09:51
  And remember, kind of like the 928, this car stretched from...
• 1:09:56
  Forever.
• 1:09:57
  75 to 96.
• 1:09:59
  The 96, yeah.
• 1:10:00
  21 years.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah, this car had longevity, just like the 928.
• 1:10:05
  And this is the other one I was going to throw out there.
• 1:10:07
  Now this one almost anti Malaise, it really is.
• 1:10:10
  But I was going to throw in there with the Jag, the six series BMW.
• 1:10:13
  But you look at the eight series BMW, those things are going psychotic on
• 1:10:18
  the used market right now for a really prime example, and yet built right
• 1:10:22
  alongside of them, there was the XJS.
• 1:10:24
  They were right there and they do not command the same amount of money.
• 1:10:27
  Going back to those friends of mine who have them, have had them,
• 1:10:30
  once you sort them out and if you drive them, that's their biggest
• 1:10:34
  enemy is people don't drive them.
• 1:10:35
  If you drive them and if you sort them out, they're actually
• 1:10:38
  really, really good cars.
• 1:10:39
  But everyone says the same thing.
• 1:10:41
  Avoid the 12, go for the six.
• 1:10:43
  It's just a much better car all the way around.
• 1:10:46
  It was more modern.
• 1:10:47
  So you're losing that seventies news that we're all talking about that we all love,
• 1:10:51
  but if you want something you can drive every day and not worry about too much,
• 1:10:56
  the six cylinder is your best friend.
• 1:10:57
  If you're just looking for that malaise.
• 1:10:59
  I am in your face 100%.
• 1:11:01
  Go with the 12, but you got to be able to afford it.
• 1:11:04
  And the best recommendation I've ever been given about buying a Jag
• 1:11:08
  is make sure it has a lot of miles because then you know it actually ran.
• 1:11:12
  Yes.
• 1:11:12
  Yes.
• 1:11:13
  I've heard the same thing.
• 1:11:14
  The 450 SLC, it was the most expensive car Mercedes built.
• 1:11:19
  In the mid seventies, it was the father of the 3 the 5 60 sec, but it
• 1:11:26
  looked like a 450 SL that had been stretched, but it was their ultimate car.
• 1:11:31
  It was their most expensive coupe.
• 1:11:33
  It is a coupe.
• 1:11:34
  It has a long hood.
• 1:11:35
  It's a 4.
• 1:11:36
  5 liter V eight.
• 1:11:36
  It has some muscle to it, but not enough to really do anything.
• 1:11:41
  It was hugely expensive in its day.
• 1:11:43
  I think they were 29, 000.
• 1:11:44
  If I remember correctly, that car screams F you money in the seventies.
• 1:11:49
  It screams.
• 1:11:50
  I have no taste whatsoever.
• 1:11:52
  They're totally insulting.
• 1:11:54
  And on today's market, they're just starting to see a little uptick in
• 1:11:59
  their value that for one of these listeners of ours with their thought
• 1:12:03
  of, I want to buy a first time car, I really think your XJS and your SLCs.
• 1:12:09
  Those are really kind of the ultimate statement of I've made it
• 1:12:12
  in the seventies and boy, do the cars suck and they're still cheap.
• 1:12:16
  You can get them in the, they are the SLCs, even in mint condition.
• 1:12:20
  They're not all that much money.
• 1:12:22
  And you know, it's a Mercedes.
• 1:12:24
  You can get parts for it anywhere.
• 1:12:25
  Pretty much anybody knows how to work on them.
• 1:12:27
  They don't break easy.
• 1:12:28
  They go pretty well.
• 1:12:29
  And like Eric was saying about Jaguar.
• 1:12:32
  You know, if you buy them with high miles, you know, that it's earned it's salt.
• 1:12:36
  It's gone that far.
• 1:12:37
  Never buy a low mileage Jag.
• 1:12:39
  How do we feel about Esprit?
• 1:12:41
  Esprit was born smack in the middle of the beginning of it.
• 1:12:45
  And that is a car that's very similar to some, just like the Jaguar,
• 1:12:49
  just like your Pasha interior.
• 1:12:51
  It's a love it, hate it car.
• 1:12:52
  007 made it the new Ashton Martin.
• 1:12:54
  I think we have to take the wedge cars out.
• 1:12:57
  The 928 fits both categories, muscle and malaise, because
• 1:13:01
  it was a German muscle car.
• 1:13:03
  The Esprit is still a sports car.
• 1:13:05
  It's mid engine.
• 1:13:06
  It's a wedge car, but you hit on something important.
• 1:13:09
  You mentioned Ashton Martin, and if you go back to.
• 1:13:12
  Like the Persuaders with Roger Moore driving that V8 Vantage Aston Martin.
• 1:13:18
  It's similar to the XJS that you're referring to.
• 1:13:21
  I actually like the look of that car.
• 1:13:22
  It has that kind of Mustang ish feel to it.
• 1:13:25
  Now, granted that's going to take our collector into that stratosphere because
• 1:13:29
  that's going to be a six figure car.
• 1:13:31
  They are super cool.
• 1:13:32
  And I think that's where the Jag is really a strong contender.
• 1:13:36
  Even the 928, you know, even those cars are starting to get a little bit.
• 1:13:39
  Pricey for what they are, they're joining the eight series BMW,
• 1:13:44
  but the Jag is still flatline.
• 1:13:45
  And if you, okay, forgive me, cause this is getting nineties this year,
• 1:13:49
  but if you really want a better car all the way around the XK eight and
• 1:13:53
  the subsequent XK was a fantastic car.
• 1:13:56
  Now, a lot of people will throw at me.
• 1:13:57
  Oh, it's a Ford.
• 1:13:58
  Yeah.
• 1:13:58
  That's great.
• 1:14:00
  Throw me an XJS, throw me an XK, tell me which one is the better car.
• 1:14:04
  It's the Ford.
• 1:14:05
  Okay, so get over it.
• 1:14:06
  Get out there and enjoy your four dwar.
• 1:14:09
  Is that like a boudoir?
• 1:14:10
  What is that?
• 1:14:11
  Boudoir.
• 1:14:12
  Yeah.
• 1:14:13
  Come ride in my four dwar.
• 1:14:14
  Four dwar.
• 1:14:15
  And don't bring the Grey Foupon, bring mustard.
• 1:14:18
  Your blue label with just mustard on it.
• 1:14:20
  Better yet, bring little packets of mayonnaise from
• 1:14:22
  Jack in the Box or something.
• 1:14:24
  Seriously though, I think for Malays, I think if you want the
• 1:14:27
  ultimate European Malays, I really wonder if that XJS is not the beast.
• 1:14:32
  I'm starting to come around on that.
• 1:14:33
  I think the 920 is in the muscle car category for sure.
• 1:14:36
  It's a close second to this though, but this I think probably takes the cake.
• 1:14:40
  It's so, I don't want to say gaudy.
• 1:14:42
  Personally, I always thought it was a beautiful car.
• 1:14:44
  I really did.
• 1:14:45
  I like the version that Mark has up with the covered headlights.
• 1:14:48
  I always thought that was the best of all of them.
• 1:14:50
  Yeah.
• 1:14:51
  Yeah.
• 1:14:51
  The European that's the first gen those wheels, et cetera.
• 1:14:54
  Yeah.
• 1:14:54
  They were magnificent cars.
• 1:14:56
  I think the British tend to get the look right the first time.
• 1:15:00
  And then they just screw it up from there.
• 1:15:02
  Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  Their evolution is wrong.
• 1:15:03
  F type.
• 1:15:04
  Like it just looks worse.
• 1:15:05
  The time goes on to get a convertible version.
• 1:15:07
  Also.
• 1:15:07
  That's true.
• 1:15:08
  Yes.
• 1:15:09
  Yeah.
• 1:15:09
  They were beautiful without their top.
• 1:15:10
  Are we still talking about cars?
• 1:15:12
  No comment.
• 1:15:13
  I mean, if we're going, if you're going European, the Ford
• 1:15:16
  Granada, Gia, good car just died.
• 1:15:21
  Moving on.
• 1:15:22
  Moving on.
• 1:15:23
  No, I want a car that's named after a weapon of somewhat destruction.
• 1:15:30
  The Granada is a perfect one.
• 1:15:32
  Gran Torino, Cordoba, all these posh names.
• 1:15:37
  You know, it's like those cheesy, I don't know how well you guys know LA.
• 1:15:40
  I'm sorry.
• 1:15:41
  I'm from LA.
• 1:15:42
  So there's a place we have called the Valley, the San Fernando Valley.
• 1:15:46
  And for the most part, it's a pit.
• 1:15:48
  But you can get anything in the world you want in this pit.
• 1:15:52
  Every sense of humanity is in the pit.
• 1:15:55
  In fact, there's a great saying about Van Nuys or the Valley,
• 1:15:58
  which is Valley money makes Beverly Hills living possible because it's
• 1:16:03
  literally right over the hill.
• 1:16:04
  Most of the people in Beverly Hills won't tell you this.
• 1:16:07
  But they all own land over in the valley, because that's where the
• 1:16:10
  businesses that's where money is made.
• 1:16:13
  Now, that being said, most of the apartments in the valley are known as
• 1:16:16
  San Remo, or they're known as Granada, or they're known as something else.
• 1:16:21
  It's supposed to psychologically take away how crappy that apartment really is.
• 1:16:25
  And give it a posh name and make you think, Oh, no, no, no, no.
• 1:16:28
  I live on Lido Isle.
• 1:16:30
  No, you don't.
• 1:16:31
  You live on Colfax.
• 1:16:32
  And I think this gets muddled when we go into Europe.
• 1:16:35
  It really does.
• 1:16:36
  To be totally honest.
• 1:16:36
  And by the way, I'm a fan of the Cortina 2 because it was featured in shows
• 1:16:41
  like Life on Mars and you got to see a lot of those European malaise cars.
• 1:16:45
  In that show, but they don't hold a candle to the kind of, as Don put it,
• 1:16:49
  crap that we were producing over here.
• 1:16:52
  One thing I noticed in just kind of scratching down some chicken
• 1:16:55
  notes here for this episode.
• 1:16:56
  When I hit 1982, a little epiphany hit me.
• 1:17:00
  One of my favorite Trans Ams, you guys will laugh me out of
• 1:17:02
  here, but I am the Malaise guy.
• 1:17:04
  So forgive me.
• 1:17:05
  The 82 Trans Am, the first year of the third gen with the little flip up.
• 1:17:09
  Headlights, the bowling ball, hubcaps, et cetera.
• 1:17:12
  Knight Rider was an 82 Tram Zam.
• 1:17:14
  But then I got to thinking, you know, Charger came back in 1983 or 1982.
• 1:17:20
  It was a front wheel drive Mitsubishi, basically with a 2.
• 1:17:22
  2 liter Chrysler.
• 1:17:24
  If you had the turbo, you only had the 5 speed manual.
• 1:17:27
  Then you had the Mustang, which.
• 1:17:29
  Finally brought on that kind of muscular Fox body.
• 1:17:32
  It shed the Mustang too, and came out with the more squared off, et cetera.
• 1:17:37
  But the one thing you've got to say about all of these cars, they
• 1:17:40
  kind of shed from muscle to sport.
• 1:17:43
  They still have that muscular flair that, you know, American chest
• 1:17:47
  pounding flair to the look, but they didn't have it under the hood.
• 1:17:51
  But what did they have?
• 1:17:51
  They had handling.
• 1:17:53
  That third gen Trans Am handled like it was nobody's business.
• 1:17:56
  That Mustang handled fantastically.
• 1:17:58
  That Charger with the front wheel drive and the turbo, holy cow, if you
• 1:18:02
  could keep the turbo lag to a minimum.
• 1:18:03
  And what did that father?
• 1:18:05
  The Daytona and the Laser.
• 1:18:06
  And of course, surrounding that, Eric, to your point, you want
• 1:18:10
  to talk about the oddballs.
• 1:18:11
  Just sticking with the Mopar family, Chrysler LeBaron GTC.
• 1:18:15
  Is it a personal coupe convertible or can it be considered kind of a muscle car?
• 1:18:19
  I don't know how gray you want to go with this, but I just noticed in
• 1:18:23
  my, in my little chicken scratch, things started getting sportier.
• 1:18:27
  In the eighties, less muscular, more sporty case in point Mustang SVO.
• 1:18:31
  I know it's a Mustang and we're not supposed to say that word, but the SVO 2.
• 1:18:36
  3 liter turbo total European styling built right alongside the
• 1:18:40
  GT and yet it was more expensive.
• 1:18:44
  Than the gt and people couldn't figure out why am I spending more money on this?
• 1:18:47
  Ah, it was a handling car that went just as quick just as fast as a gt
• 1:18:52
  I was gonna say to add to what you were saying don in regards of they
• 1:18:54
  were going to a more sportier there in that Transition through the 80s.
• 1:18:57
  They were also switching to a lot of lighter weight materials on the
• 1:19:00
  vehicles You could all the plastic in the interiors and things like that
• 1:19:03
  which helped where those low horsepower producing engines after all the uh
• 1:19:08
  Fuel crisis stuff of the late 70s.
• 1:19:10
  They were trying to find ways to get that power to weight better.
• 1:19:14
  So they started using lighter weight stuff.
• 1:19:16
  And unfortunately, some of it was crappy electronics in the 80s, but
• 1:19:19
  that's what it was to have at that time.
• 1:19:21
  And to Don's point, he hit the nail in the head.
• 1:19:23
  There is a transition there where you started in the late 80s.
• 1:19:26
  You heard about the last of the muscle cars, the GNX itself, the
• 1:19:29
  grand national is that crescendo.
• 1:19:32
  To the end of the real muscle car era, because it was built as a muscle car, not
• 1:19:36
  as a sports car, even though we joke that it's a sports coupe and things like that.
• 1:19:41
  But in reality, Don's right.
• 1:19:43
  They did move more towards sportier cars.
• 1:19:45
  And we started to see that more in the nineties.
• 1:19:48
  I've got one final car, which I think is the pinnacle here, but
• 1:19:52
  Andrew, Mark, Rob, even Dan, do you have anything else on your list?
• 1:19:56
  I want to go kind of around the loop again and see if there's any
• 1:19:58
  other cars that we missed, Andrew, something you're thinking about.
• 1:20:01
  Yeah, I got the Monte Carlo in my background because from the big guy
• 1:20:04
  episode, embrace the bigger car, embrace the oversize gotten a little bit pudgy
• 1:20:10
  muscle cars that are still a bodies that led into G bodies that again,
• 1:20:14
  have all the potential in the world.
• 1:20:16
  They don't look as good as all the classics, but that's,
• 1:20:18
  what's been put in front of you.
• 1:20:19
  So take a look at the cars that again.
• 1:20:22
  With a refresh, with a little bit of love, a little bit of your own personal
• 1:20:24
  style put on it is I think a perfect example of a Malaysian era muscle car
• 1:20:29
  that can be something to be proud of.
• 1:20:30
  That late seventies Monte Carlo, they even had a fastback version of it
• 1:20:34
  that had like huge sweeping glass.
• 1:20:36
  That was in my opinion, a very interesting look.
• 1:20:39
  I won't say it's good or bad, but it was interesting.
• 1:20:41
  Look for that.
• 1:20:42
  Body line, shaved the trim, put a decent wheel and tire package on it.
• 1:20:46
  You got something that looks pretty tough.
• 1:20:47
  I think Dan was referring to the aero look.
• 1:20:49
  Cause then that's what we call it back then.
• 1:20:50
  Yeah.
• 1:20:51
  Yep.
• 1:20:52
  There was Chevy and Pontiac that had that, right?
• 1:20:54
  Yes.
• 1:20:54
  Bring up a Monte Carlo and let's talk about a car that transcends
• 1:20:58
  because the car started out as what a personal luxury coupe.
• 1:21:02
  Remember it was supposed to be sort of an answer to the Buick Riviera,
• 1:21:05
  the Oldsmobile Tornado, whatever.
• 1:21:06
  It was a personal luxury coupe that was somewhat affordable.
• 1:21:09
  Ah, but you could also get a 454 if you wanted it and spice it up and make it a
• 1:21:13
  real straight going performance machine.
• 1:21:15
  It really was basically a fancy Chevelle for all intents and purposes.
• 1:21:20
  But here's a car that transcended from.
• 1:21:23
  The muscle car era of Chevelle is dominant, Kuda is dominant, et cetera,
• 1:21:28
  to, wow, we can't do this anymore, guys.
• 1:21:30
  So what are we going to be?
• 1:21:31
  We're going to become a real live, personally luxury coupe, but you
• 1:21:35
  could still get a 454 and you could still have a lot of torque and
• 1:21:39
  you could still have bucket seats.
• 1:21:40
  And you could still, you know, if you just kept your mouth shut, the insurance
• 1:21:43
  company, the EPA, they really didn't know.
• 1:21:46
  Looking at that car right there, it looks like something your
• 1:21:48
  third grade teacher would drive.
• 1:21:50
  And that was kind of the beauty of it.
• 1:21:51
  It was sort of that luxo sleeper thing.
• 1:21:54
  I always thought the Monte Carlo was a great car.
• 1:21:56
  Then there was that moment of the late, late 70s, early, early 80s, when it was
• 1:21:59
  just kind of a weird, little, funky thing.
• 1:22:02
  Then came...
• 1:22:04
  In my opinion, the nicer when I want to say 1984, yeah, the G body, yeah.
• 1:22:08
  Sort of matched the, uh, the Regal and that Grand Prix we're talking about.
• 1:22:12
  I thought they got back that muscular look, but they still retained that
• 1:22:16
  librarian ish, you know, you could be the librarian or you could
• 1:22:19
  be, you know, the Sunday racer.
• 1:22:20
  If you wanted to, I always thought they were tremendous, tremendous car along
• 1:22:24
  with the Regal and you know, whatever was in the family, I think you just
• 1:22:28
  described the Monte Carlo as Linda Carter.
• 1:22:31
  Don, I'm just kind of throwing that out there.
• 1:22:33
  That's you, man.
• 1:22:34
  That's, you know.
• 1:22:37
  Uh, I'm not playing the game correctly.
• 1:22:39
  I'm thinking the Chevy 454 SS pickup truck.
• 1:22:41
  But that was in the 90s though.
• 1:22:43
  88, 98.
• 1:22:44
  You can't get more malaise than that though.
• 1:22:46
  It's a 454.
• 1:22:47
  For producing like 210 horsepower.
• 1:22:49
  Yeah, that's muscle car.
• 1:22:50
  It's not a luxury, right?
• 1:22:51
  Malaise really defines luxury on top of this non performance
• 1:22:55
  it's in replacement of.
• 1:22:56
  So that truck, I mean, I've driven one of those.
• 1:22:59
  They're pretty slick.
• 1:23:00
  I mean, they're not super fast by any stretch of the means, but
• 1:23:02
  they're, they're kind of bad ass.
• 1:23:04
  They're a little bit menacing.
• 1:23:05
  It's a Andrew's point.
• 1:23:06
  They're a cam and a 250 nitrous shot away.
• 1:23:10
  From running tens in the quarter mile.
• 1:23:13
  That's right.
• 1:23:14
  They were one of those buildable cars.
• 1:23:16
  Yeah.
• 1:23:16
  It's a, it's a four 54.
• 1:23:18
  I mean, huge iron lock, you know, motor that'll take a two 50 shot.
• 1:23:22
  No problem.
• 1:23:23
  All day long swap fixes everything and exhaust jam swap.
• 1:23:26
  All the things before you LS swap, swap.
• 1:23:29
  Okay, we go all the way up to 1987 with the uh, El Camino.
• 1:23:33
  So we had the El Caminos that started out with performance from the old
• 1:23:36
  Chevelles and went through into the 70s with the different model changes.
• 1:23:40
  And then into the 80s, I think they finally had 350s at the end,
• 1:23:43
  but the pricing of those is very affordable for the later one.
• 1:23:46
  You're a genius.
• 1:23:47
  How the hell did we skip El Camino?
• 1:23:49
  I have no idea.
• 1:23:50
  El Camino.
• 1:23:50
  And they made it for so damn long.
• 1:23:53
  It's the perfect Malaysia.
• 1:23:54
  You could get like a 1990 or something.
• 1:23:56
  And it's basically the 1975.
• 1:23:59
  And you know what the crazy thing they're going to be coming out with a new El
• 1:24:01
  Camino, according to Shelly, they've been talking about are threatening to come out
• 1:24:05
  with a Chevelle that's 150, 000, 150, 000.
• 1:24:09
  If I may counter that, Ford is also talking about bringing back.
• 1:24:12
  The Gran Torino Rancher.
• 1:24:14
  What about the Ranchero?
• 1:24:15
  Oh, the wrong car wagons.
• 1:24:18
  Things now crux called crux.
• 1:24:20
  If we're going to go car truck, we need to bring Andrew in on this
• 1:24:23
  because down under they had a ute and that was a spectacular vehicle.
• 1:24:29
  It really was.
• 1:24:30
  They have a whole subculture.
• 1:24:31
  They have the Ford version.
• 1:24:32
  They have the Holden version.
• 1:24:34
  It's just the V8 in the front and work in the back or however you want to.
• 1:24:37
  Put that together.
• 1:24:38
  But yeah, amazing.
• 1:24:39
  That's mullet, not inverse.
• 1:24:41
  It's an inverse mullet.
• 1:24:43
  It's an inverse mullet business in the front party in the back.
• 1:24:47
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:24:48
  Other than the, uh, El Camino, I was going to throw out the Chevy love.
• 1:24:51
  Oh yeah.
• 1:24:52
  They're phenomenal.
• 1:24:54
  They were like one of the original mini pickups.
• 1:24:56
  Oh, that's like the Zuzu pop or whatever they called it.
• 1:24:59
  Yeah, but the Chevy love it was cool.
• 1:25:01
  And I think they actually, for a short period of time, you could get it with a
• 1:25:05
  small block V8 in them from the factory.
• 1:25:07
  And don't forget the Ford Courier.
• 1:25:09
  We missed something huge guys.
• 1:25:11
  Oh, that's why I'm saying, you know, Brad with his 454 over there,
• 1:25:14
  you might have a whole different episode bringing up pickups.
• 1:25:17
  We missed something tremendously huge.
• 1:25:20
  We're talking about malaise.
• 1:25:21
  We're talking about muscle.
• 1:25:22
  We're talking land yacht.
• 1:25:24
  We're talking performance.
• 1:25:25
  I got it all.
• 1:25:26
  It goes above the El Camino, the Ranchero, all of them.
• 1:25:29
  It is the GMC Ventura Van 18 edition.
• 1:25:35
  Vans!
• 1:25:36
  Muscle Van.
• 1:25:37
  Muscle Van.
• 1:25:38
  I'm all for it.
• 1:25:39
  Remember in the 70s.
• 1:25:41
  The van was the king, the custom van with the custom paint, the
• 1:25:44
  custom interior, waterbeds, bars.
• 1:25:47
  I mean, they that's malaise.
• 1:25:49
  That's malaise.
• 1:25:49
  Corvette summer van.
• 1:25:51
  That's a member.
• 1:25:52
  Exactly.
• 1:25:52
  Exactly.
• 1:25:53
  Exactly.
• 1:25:54
  Don't forget the mirrors on the ceiling.
• 1:25:57
  You got to have those said us.
• 1:26:00
  So I've got 1 for you guys as we kind of close out.
• 1:26:03
  These many suggestions we've thrown on the table for our collectors to
• 1:26:06
  consider if they're looking down the muscle and malaise era, trying to
• 1:26:10
  find something different, trying to find something new, something that not
• 1:26:13
  everybody else has, or would consider.
• 1:26:15
  Now, hear me out.
• 1:26:17
  We talked about no Mustangs, no cameras, no kudos, no challengers,
• 1:26:21
  no chargers, no Chevelles, no, this, no, that the other thing.
• 1:26:23
  But what if I could present you a vehicle based on 1 of those with infinite.
• 1:26:29
  Amounts of customizability, infinite amounts of performance, even potentially
• 1:26:35
  track worthy, but really emphasizes and quantifies in 1 vehicle muscle and delays.
• 1:26:42
  Bear with me now, as I present you the Ford.
• 1:26:46
  Fairmont based on the Fox body.
• 1:26:50
  1883.
• 1:26:50
  Yeah.
• 1:26:51
  That board had a nine inch rear end.
• 1:26:53
  That car is the car that does it all.
• 1:26:56
  If you think about the styling, it's malaise through and through the interior
• 1:27:00
  is as well, but underneath there's a sleeping dragon waiting to be tuned
• 1:27:05
  and set up and be used in any capacity.
• 1:27:08
  You like Eric, if I can burst just a little bit here, I want
• 1:27:12
  to take it just a little further.
• 1:27:15
  here.
• 1:27:15
  I want to bring in, it's called the Lincoln Versailles.
• 1:27:19
  It's one of those cars with the funky names that promises you exotic
• 1:27:23
  locations and fine foods when really it's just a Granada in a tuxedo.
• 1:27:28
  But it's still the five liter.
• 1:27:30
  It's still the C4.
• 1:27:31
  It's still the nine inch rear end with four wheel disc brakes.
• 1:27:34
  And when you get inside that car, you're surrounded with beautiful luxury.
• 1:27:39
  Do you know what I'm saying?
• 1:27:40
  You've got some leather upholstery.
• 1:27:42
  You've got some fake wood.
• 1:27:43
  You've got silver gauges and baby, uh, you're driving a Lincoln.
• 1:27:46
  You know what I'm saying?
• 1:27:47
  I mean, when you look at the Lincoln Versailles, I mean, I definitely see it.
• 1:27:51
  It is next level malaise, but it's going to be a hard toss between
• 1:27:56
  that Fairmont and the Lincoln.
• 1:27:57
  And I think I'm going to lean towards the Fairmont only because of the fact
• 1:28:01
  that I've personally seen somebody set one of these up for track use.
• 1:28:05
  And it is a performer.
• 1:28:06
  It's shockingly quick.
• 1:28:08
  Yeah.
• 1:28:08
  And that's what I was going to say is where the Fairmont has this
• 1:28:10
  serious advantage of the weight, the Lincoln is going to have a
• 1:28:13
  thousand pounds over the Fairmont.
• 1:28:16
  And that car was also available as a wagon on top of it all.
• 1:28:19
  Oh my God.
• 1:28:20
  No, that does it.
• 1:28:21
  That settles it.
• 1:28:22
  If you can get it as a wagon, it's a Fox body station, right?
• 1:28:25
  Done.
• 1:28:26
  Done.
• 1:28:26
  Fox buddy wagon.
• 1:28:27
  My old girlfriend back in the eighties had one of those cars.
• 1:28:30
  Rob, you have won the day with that suggestion.
• 1:28:33
  You win the internet with Fox buddy wagon.
• 1:28:36
  You put a coyote in that thing, man, you've got a screamer.
• 1:28:39
  Oh yeah.
• 1:28:40
  Even a 302 out of like a Mustang GT in that would be amazing.
• 1:28:43
  Well, remember the car that replaced the Fairmont with the
• 1:28:47
  LTD two basically was a stop gap.
• 1:28:49
  It was built after the Fairmont, but before the Taurus, and it was subsequent
• 1:28:53
  with the Taurus for a little while.
• 1:28:54
  And Bob Bondurant had them as training vehicles and they were dogs.
• 1:28:59
  They couldn't get out of their own way.
• 1:29:01
  So they swapped it out with a Mustang five leader and turned it into a real beast.
• 1:29:05
  They took some Ford executives out and Ford executives were confused,
• 1:29:08
  wondering, where'd you get this car?
• 1:29:10
  Where did, well, we built it.
• 1:29:11
  They liked it so much.
• 1:29:12
  They started building their own for 1984 and 85.
• 1:29:16
  They didn't build too many, maybe 3000 of them, but they
• 1:29:18
  were equipped with a Mustang five leader and automatic transmission.
• 1:29:22
  And essentially it's what you're talking about, Eric, it's just already.
• 1:29:26
  Ready to go from the factory with a five liter, but it's a little guy.
• 1:29:29
  It's the same size as that Fairmont there, but that might be something
• 1:29:32
  to think of too, but it might also be too far in the eighties.
• 1:29:34
  I don't know.
• 1:29:35
  Well, either way, I think we've given everybody a lot of food for thought.
• 1:29:39
  So let's do a quick lightning round.
• 1:29:40
  Everybody pick one car out of the ones we suggest, or maybe one
• 1:29:44
  that we haven't mentioned yet that our first time buyers should buy.
• 1:29:48
  Pass.
• 1:29:49
  I'm gonna throw one out that wasn't mentioned.
• 1:29:50
  I'm gonna go to the Chevy 2 Nova since that's the muscle car
• 1:29:53
  side and I really miss the one that I had when I was younger.
• 1:29:56
  I'm thinking about a Regal Turbo 1979.
• 1:29:58
  1976 Cadillac Eldorado convertible.
• 1:30:03
  All right, first generation Dodge Dart, four doors.
• 1:30:06
  Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with my home base.
• 1:30:08
  I'm gonna go with a Lincoln Mark IV.
• 1:30:10
  I really do think it's a hard toss for me between three cars.
• 1:30:14
  It's the 928, the AMC Javelin, or the Ford Fairmont that we
• 1:30:18
  mentioned there at the tail end.
• 1:30:19
  I think those are three big contenders.
• 1:30:22
  Well, if we can pick three, I'm going with the Lincoln, I'm going with
• 1:30:24
  the XJS, and I'm going with the SLC.
• 1:30:28
  XJS was my second.
• 1:30:29
  You gotta think, there are three Luxo barges from each country.
• 1:30:33
  It's kind of fun.
• 1:30:33
  The Caprice wagon behind me.
• 1:30:35
  I mean, it doesn't fit, but I'm...
• 1:30:36
  Hard host.
• 1:30:37
  I make up the rules.
• 1:30:38
  I don't care.
• 1:30:40
  It suddenly became whose line is it anyway?
• 1:30:42
  The points don't matter.
• 1:30:43
  All jokes aside, I think there's so many options, especially when,
• 1:30:47
  as we've been alluding to, you start thinking outside the box.
• 1:30:51
  The boxy vehicles themselves, between the vans, the utes, the crux, the
• 1:30:55
  wagon, these supposed muscle cars.
• 1:30:58
  There's just so many different ways to take this.
• 1:31:00
  So it's an underappreciated and overlooked period in automotive history,
• 1:31:05
  but it's a great time to go back and revisit it and bring new eyes to it
• 1:31:09
  and say, where can we take these cars?
• 1:31:11
  How can we make them cool again?
• 1:31:13
  Bring your garage.
• 1:31:14
  the next level with Don over at GarageStyleMagazine.
• 1:31:17
  com.
• 1:31:18
  Get all the latest information on events, clubs, forums, and recommended vendors
• 1:31:22
  over with Rob at CollectorCarGuide.
• 1:31:24
  net.
• 1:31:24
  You're guaranteed to catch Mark and Mountain Man Dan on another
• 1:31:27
  episode of BreakFix in the near future, so stay tuned for that.
• 1:31:31
  And if you haven't listened to the season one classic big man and a little car,
• 1:31:35
  it's a great episode featuring Andrew.
• 1:31:37
  Thanks again to our panel for another great, what should I buy debate?
• 1:31:40
  That's right.
• 1:31:42
  We never come to a conclusion, but we always have fun getting there.
• 1:31:53
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 1:31:56
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 1:32:00
  gtmotorsports.
• 1:32:00
  org.
• 1:32:01
  You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.
• 1:32:04
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can
• 1:32:08
  call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 1:32:16
  org.
• 1:32:16
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:32:18
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:32:21
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix and we wanted to remind you that
• 1:32:25
  GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
• 1:32:29
  And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes
• 1:32:32
  like this one at no charge.
• 1:32:34
  As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for
• 1:32:38
  bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.
• 1:32:43
  For as little as 2.
• 1:32:45
  50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other
• 1:32:49
  volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster.
• 1:32:54
  Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.
• 1:32:57
  patreon.
• 1:32:57
  com.
• 1:32:57
  dot Patreon.
• 1:32:58
  com forward slash GT Motorsports.
• 1:33:01
  And remember without fans, supporters, and members like you,
• 1:33:06
  none of this would be possible.