Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Running the Reds with President of Baseball Ops Nick Krall

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Running the Reds with President of Baseball Ops Nick Krall · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. I am your host,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: fad Levine. We have a wonderful show today, headlined by
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: a fabulous guest. Nick Krawl has a reputation for being
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: one of the all around good people working in the game.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Nick's work, ethic, and perseverance have highlighted his illustrious career.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: A native of York, Pennsylvania, and a graduate of LSU,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Nick got a start in the game working for the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: New Jersey Cardinals of the New York penn League. In
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one, Nick joined the vonded front office
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of the Oakland Athletics, and in two thousand and three,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Nick took his talents to Cincinnati and over the next
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: twenty four seasons, Nick paid his dues, honed his craft,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and ascended to the Red's President of Baseball Operations position.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Nick Welcome to Rosters to Rings.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks don appreciate you having me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: My pleasure to have you on.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Nick.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: So, Nick, one of our traditions here is just to
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: share with the listeners. How did you fall in love
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: with sports as a kid? What is your sports origin
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: passion story?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I guess when I was a kid. My uh my,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: my parents were really young when when when I was born,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: my dad was still playing in college. He played in
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the uh uh Division two World College World Series. So
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: ended up being like going to that as a as
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a as a newborn, I guess. So, you know, like
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: my my youngest memories are going to games with my
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: dad after he was out of college, hanging out. Uh
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: he played summer ball, you know, just a bunch of
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: guys like having a good time, and uh, you know,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I just fell in love with baseball, you know. He
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: uh he played so and I ended up playing, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: just I grew up with a lot of people that
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: played baseball, and just it was.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Fun, you know, Nick, For anybody out there who thinks
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: it's a linear path to becoming a general manager or
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: now for you, a president of baseball operations, they're dead wrong.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And you and I are testaments of that. There is
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a ton of adversity you faced along the way. There's
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of nose to ultimately get to the right. Yes,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could take us back to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: your first adversity. If I did my research right, I
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: understand that you went to LSU with the aspiration of
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: walking on the baseball team. What transpired there and how
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: did you face your first adversity on your path to
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: becoming your president of baseball operations.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, going there, they were the best program
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: in the nineties, won five national titles and a ten
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: year span, and I wanted to try to walk on
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, I wasn't able to.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I was the last guy cut in two thousand and
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: won the national championship. It's something that I you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I was not as good as all the other folks,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: and I know I understand that, but you know, when
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I got cut, it was it was something where it
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: was handled really well by the coaching staff, and you know,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I was encouraged, and you know, I could have transferred
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and played, but I had, you know, one semester left
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: after that one, and it was at a time where
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, look, I'm just I'm looking to graduate.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: But it was a lot of fun. There were a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: lot of good people there, and I learned a lot
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and uh, you know, it's just, uh, you know, you
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: just gotta keep going forward.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Can you give us a scouting report of you as
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a player?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I could catch and throw and I couldn't hit. So there,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: how's that for it?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Succinct. All right, so you graduate from LSU, how do
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: you land your first job with the New Jersey Cardinals?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And tell tell the listeners a little bit about the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: New York Penalty.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so I went to UH I went
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: to the winter meetings my first uh, my first my
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: senior year of college. Mike Daly, who you worked with Dale's,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: he told me about this place, and we went to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: l s U together and uh he interned in New Jersey.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I went and had an interview. But you know, back
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: then they had that job fair and the job fair
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: you put in your resume, you got a bunch of interviews.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I interviewed with the with the twins to be uh
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Terry Ryan's assistant while his assistant was out on the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: attorney leave. So definitely didn't get that one, you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: but it was, it was. It was a great, great experience.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, so I got offered this job
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: in New Jersey. When I started, we had fifteen interns
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the year for a short season club. Uh.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I drove. I graduated on a Friday, I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: drove through the weekend. I started on a Monday. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: lived in a camper with two other guys my size.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So that was that was the experience. Uh, you know,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: we lived in a legitimate campground in a camper. It
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: was something that I'll never forget. It was. It was,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: it was really it was a great experience. I learned
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: a lot about the business of baseball, how it works.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: By the end of the year, we had three interns left,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: so you know, you had got They let you do
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: whatever was needed. They you know, ran ransom, merchandise or
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: you know, ran the game day staff or media relations,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: sold outfield signs. I mean, you name it. We we
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: did it. It was just not in baseball. And it
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: was a great, great experience. Met a lot of great
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: people along the way, and you know, just it was
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: something that you know, I'm glad I did it, but
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: it was how do I get to the next part
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of working in baseball?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I think people don't realize, but that's how
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: most of us got our starts. You know, it is
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you if you're prepared to do whatever it takes. Sometimes
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you are put in those positions and similar to you,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I started my career working for the Dodgers on the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: business side as well. I was working in business development.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Fred Coons was my boss and he was extremely gracious.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And when I started there, there was a gentleman by
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the name of Tommy Lasorda who was there, who I
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: think was a part time advising the baseball operations and
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the other part time was seeing when the moon hits
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: your eye like a big pizza pie. That's a more
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: walking through the halls and during the games, Bill Guyvett,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: who was the assistant general manager at the time, said Hey,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: if you want to sit and watch a few games
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: with me, feel free. And so I think I was
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: supposed to be there five hours a week. I was
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: at UCLA getting class credit, and I was there fifty
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: hours a week. And you know, it's just when those
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: people do those good turns for you early in your career,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it's monumental. And I think it's so much about it's
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: getting those opportunities, but then it's making the most of
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the opportunities when they're presented to you. It sounds like
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: you did that because you know, a couple of years later,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you're now working for the Oakland Athletics And how did
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that role come to pass?
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the next year, after I was in
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: New Jersey, I went to I got a job as
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the clubhouse manager in Visalia, which was an Ave's affiliate.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I got offered some part time some full time jobs
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: in minor leagues, but you know, I wanted to figure
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: out how to get on the baseball side, so I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: took the job. I worked out where I was going
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: to go be a clubhouse guy in spring training. So
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I worked in the minor league clubhouse in spring training,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: met a lot of people there. Went to Visalia. Did
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: you know you traveled around in the Cow League because
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the clubhouse guy went with the team to to you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: they didn't have visiting clubhouse guys. So it was great.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I got to learn to live life like a minor
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: league player. I got there's a lot of good people
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: that is still in touch with from those days. But
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: being an A's affiliate, we had all the coordinators and
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: rovers come in and some of the front office staff,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and you know, you just do the best job you can.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Whatever it was, whether it was you know, it was
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: it was not a great facility. We uh we we
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: had to pack the laundry up every night and take
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: it to a laundry mat, even at home. So it
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: was it was, it was fun though it was, I
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: learned a lot by doing it. I learned I was
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: just they were great. The coaching staff was great to me.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: They allowed me to ask questions, you know, whatever it was,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: you know. And then at the end of the year,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I needed a job because the season was over. So
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I had met the head grounds keeper in Arizona and
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: it said, Hey, can I get a job? So I
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: worked on the grounds crew for him during the Fall
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: League and instructional League, and then came back during during
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: the regular season. But you know, I went to the
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: winter meetings and uh to interview for for you know, internships.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Uh that winner and I walked in and I really
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: wanted the a's internship. Thad Bosley was our a manager
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: in the Fall league, and he, you know him and
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: a bunch of guys put in good words for me. Uh,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: so I know that you know, whoever was hiring for
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: it was it was going to get a lot of calls.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I walked in and, uh, the the person hiring for
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: the job. I walked in said hello, I knew you know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I knew him pretty well, and he goes, he goes, look,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: we'll make this easy. Do you want the internship? And
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I said, well, yeah, I want the internship. So I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: ended up getting the internship in Oakland. And they didn't
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: pay you for the summer. It was five hundred bucks
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: for the summer, is what they paid you. I lived
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: in a I lived in a apartment that I shared
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: a bathroom with fourteen people the bat The apartment was
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: probably about i'd say maybe nine by nine. Was was
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: a one room. It was kind of like a hostel,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and I was it was. It was great. I loved it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I lived on an air mattress for the summer. But just
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: you know, like you said, they asked, hey, do you
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: want to have you know, you're not making any money.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Do you need a part time job? And the club
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: clubhouse manager, Steve Usnich asked me, he said, hey, do
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you want to be the bat boy? And I was like, sure,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I'll do it. It's it's extra money. And so I
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: would go into work about eight o'clock in the morning,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I would, you know, do the roster board and in
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Billy's office, and you know, you work through the day
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: and at four o'clock you go down to batting practice
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and put your uniform on and do whatever it took,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and you know, it was. It was an experience that
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget and I can't thank those guys enough.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: You know, whether it's uh David Forrest who's still there,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: and Paul Deepoedest who's in Colorado now, and Billy you
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: know what they allowed me to learn, Danny McCormick, the
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: scouting coordinator, you know, Chad Huss who I'm still friends with,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: who's the head grounds keeper. Those guys, you know, they
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: they let me do a lot, a lot of different things,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: and you know, they let me make mistakes. But you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: at one point I was working too many hours and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: they wanted to send me home, so I took a
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: VCR home with a laptop and I was charting games
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: on an air mattress And you know, I'll never forget it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad they were able to let me do
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: that and let me learn. And you know, they took
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: me on two road tips during the summer, which was
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: really cool, and you know, it was a lot of
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: fun with a lot of good people. And I just
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: learned a lot from them.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So Nico a lot to unpack their not the least
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: of which is after living in a camper in a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: hostel I think we need to intervene with your parents.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: How much did they love you at the time, And
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: this is concerning like these are things we would never
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: allow our children to do. Like I reflect on the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: first apartment, I would say I had in with heavy
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: air quotes when I use that term. In Colorado, I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: think there was a chalk outline in the hall outside
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of my thing. But the highlight of this was that
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: at any point I could hold my two arms out
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and touch two walls of my place. It was just
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: so small, and I just reflect My parents actually came
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and visited me and seemed to have no issues with this,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: but we certainly wouldn't allow our children to live in
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: those places. The other thing which comes to mind is
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: we're all clubbi's at heart. When I got the opportunity
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: to go to Texas, John Daniels was the general manager.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I was the assistant general manager. There was a player
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: named Jace Tingler who went on to become the manager
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: of the San Diego Padres bench coach from Minnesota, now
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: bench coach for the San Francisco Giants. What people may
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: not know is he was a scrappy outfielder, heck of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: an offensive player. He was in his last year in
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the minor leagues. So JD was giving me a tour
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: of the facility in Surprise where we had spring training,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and there was one guy working out and it was
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Jase Tinkler, and he saw the two of us. He
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: walked over to us with a handful of laundry and said, hey,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: can you guys get this done and hanging up in
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: my locker, to which JD's very very delicately said, allow
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: me to introduce myself. I'm the general manager of the team,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: not the guy who does the laundry. But at the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: heart of it, we're prepared to do whatever it takes.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: So on the more serious side, Nick, you just talked
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: about the people who touched you and helped shape your
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: career while you were there. You talked about Billy and
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Paul and David and some of the other guys. But
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you know, JP Richardi was also there, And I think
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: sometimes we're a product of the environment we're in, and
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we are so fortunate because, like you, I would have
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: taken any job in the game. I just happened to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: be so fortunate to walk into the Colorado Rockies where
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: we had seven guys who went on to become general managers,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and an eighth guy who went on to become a manager.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: We are so fortunate to work with these guys. You
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: give give the listener a little bit of an insight.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: You know, we all we've all seen Moneyball, like how
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: accurate was that? And then you also got the unique
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: perspective of being in uniform in that dugout in that
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: clubhouse with some exceptionally dynamic players. Can you share a
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: story or two about some of the people who really
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: stood out to you.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: It's funny like some of those things that you remember
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: from that year. Our office was so small in the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Baseball office, so we we our office was on the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: second floor of the Golden State Arena, and you know,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: you had there's first floor offices, and there was also
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: offices in the in the stadium. So our offices it
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: was I think it was it was the president, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: then it was his assistant, and then it was Billy's
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: assistant Betty, and then it was Billy's office, and then
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: across the hall it was there were like five more offices,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: and I had a desk at the end of the hall.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So all that stuff like it was you know, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think they remember this, but I
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I do. You know when I was when I when
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: you're there and you're an intern and you don't make
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: much money, and every day they would invite you to lunch,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, I'm going to go to lunch
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and you would sit there. And I learned a lot
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: by just going to lunch with those guys. And and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: you know, all all three of those guys plus Danny McCormick,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: you know, like, hey, let's go to lunch here, Let's
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: go to lunch here. And but you were always invited
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: every day, and and that's that doesn't happen now. You know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the a lot of offices are bigger,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and you know that that experience that they that they
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: were helped me create was incredible. You know, like some
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: of those stories, uh, you know, like from Moneyball, never
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: forget the like Mike Megnante getting set to the getting
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: designated for assignment because that that while that happened, and
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Ricardo Rincone came from from the other clubhouse. One of
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: the one of the like personal things I remember from
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that day was I'm getting changed and Mike mcnaughty's son
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: was sitting over by the over by by his locker,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and you know, all the lockers in Oakland were in
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the same room, so there was no difference in rooms.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: So you were just in the back and you saw
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: it all play out. And his son, who she's now
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: probably close to thirty years old, said, Dad, can we
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: stay for the game, And like, like being a parent,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you know where that is. But he came back with
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: his son and where the bat boys stand in Oakland,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: there's a little walkway there. He stay. He stood behind
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: us for roughly eight innings during the game with his sons.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: His son could watch the game, which was a really
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: cool thing, you know, And that's the kind of stuff
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: that like, yeah, it was there, but it doesn't show
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: like no one's showing that on a movie. And Darren Ebert,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: who used to be one of our assistant pitching coaches,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: played Mike Magnante in that movie and we were talking
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: about that. He goes the people brought it up and
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, there's no way that would ever happen.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that happened. That that's that was
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: a It was an interesting story, but you know, it
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: was such a fun year. You got to learn from
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: so many good people, you know. I remember taking a
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: scouting trip with Eric Caboda and Chris Pataro and uh,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: there was a one of the other guys with a
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: different team was, uh, it's going to the same games
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: we were. We started off at I think it was
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: an eleven am game at cal Or twelve game at
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: cal four o'clock at Stanford, and seven o'clock at San
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Jose State, and they said, hey, will you ride with
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: with the other scout and because that way he can
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: get the hov lane. I was like, sure, I'll do it,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and I got you know, you get to learn from
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: different people. It was, it was it was a really
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: neat experience though.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So so first of all, Nick, I just want to
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: say thank you for sharing the Mike Magnanty story. That
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that's that's gold, you know, both because it speaks to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the character of the organization and the people you got
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to work with. But that's truly something maybe no fans
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: know about that, and it's so special, and it also
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: speaks to the humanitarian side of our game.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I think people view it as right now that we're
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: making all these decisions formulaically, but for people like yourself,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and myself were empathetic individuals, like you never want to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: lose like that. When you make these decisions, it impacts humans,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and it's not just the player, it's the player's children,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: it's their wives, it's their families. And I think the
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: minute you lose sight of that is the minute you
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: lose the humanitarian side of this game. And that's what
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: makes us still special because yes, our products at the
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: end of the day are human beings, and yes we
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: are trading them, which is very uncommon in any other industry.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: But the minute you lose side of the impact it
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: has on their families, I think, you know, you probably
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: should step away from the game for a second and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: just check yourself. So I think that's that is a
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: tremendous story. I really appreciate you sharing it.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, it's it's always you know, people
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: always say it's it's not personal, it's business, But for
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: the person on the other side of the table, it's
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: always personal. And you have to realize that no matter
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: what you do and how you do it, you have
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to do it at least do
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: make decisions with empathy and hey, like there is a
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: personal involvement in this and you've got to make sure
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: that you're doing the best you can from that standpoint,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: because that also when people walk out of that office
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: and you're sending a guy to the minor leagues, that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they're going back in that clubhouse and the other guys
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: are asking how did they handle it? And it does
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: affect your clubhouse and you should know that.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I very well said, and I couldn't agree with
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: you more so, Nick, As your career progresses, two thousand
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and three presents an opportunity for you to go to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the Reds and be involved in their scouting team. You
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: are coming from what is storied as one of the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: most foremost and progressive analytic teams in the Oakland Athletics.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: What was the state of the Cincinnati Reds when you
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: join them? From a resource perspective, we.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Had a very small office. Matt Arnold and I started
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: on the exact same day in Cincinnati, which is kind
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: of interesting. You know, he came from from Texas and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I came from Oakland. But we started we you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: did a lot of similar things, but you know, resources
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: we were we were a very small office. I mean
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Oakland was small, small, but we were still probably on
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the on the smaller end, you know, I'd say that
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: it was a there was a lot of trial and error.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: We just built this brand new stadium. They just put
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of money in their video rooms. So you know,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I end up running the video room for a few
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: years and that was that was probably the start of
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: of you know, hey, like we how are we going
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: going to use this information to you know, get out
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: from an advanced perspective, but you know, acquire players do everything,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and I think that's something that we were doing very
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: little of at that at that time. And you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: it's something that Brad Coleman, who ended up hiring me,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: uh started I guess in Cincinnati and then he uh
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: he eventually left and we kind of build it from there. Yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So Nick, one thing that happens in your first year,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: if I got my memory right, was that you guys
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: actually relieve your manager, Bob Boone and ultimately Jim Bowden
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of their services on July twenty nine of two thousand
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and three. You're still relatively junior in your career. What
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: do you remember from that and how have you applied
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what you learned of how you've handled those when you've
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: been in the lead executive role making such profound decisions.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's just like I said before,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's a you know, some you have to sometimes
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: make decisions, tough decisions in this role, and it's never easy.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: You know, some of these decisions are going to be tough.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: They affect your people's families, They affect you know, how
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: your office is run, They affect you know everything. You
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: don't know how what your role is going to be, right,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And as a guy who just started eight months earlier,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: it to like, go, okay, well, what's going to happen
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to me in the next couple of months. My contract's
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: up in three months. You don't you know, you're just
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you run the video. Oh hey, by the way, you
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: got a new manager. You have to worry about, you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: what we're doing from advanced in that perspective and and
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: how that's that's being handled. There's the clubhouse aspect where
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: we ended up trading a bunch of players and had
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: a fire sale at the at the end of July
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: that year. And one of the players was Aaron Boone
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: who obviously Bob's his dad, as you know, the manager
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: who got fired and you know, it's you know, Bob
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: was really good to me. A lot of those guys were.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Barry Larkin, who's still with our broadcast team, was on
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: that team, you know, but it was a it was
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you learn. You learn a lot from how things are
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: done to how you would do them, and sometimes you
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: learn things like, hey, you wouldn't do it this way.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So I remember, like when it happened, you're thinking, Okay,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: the how's is going to affect me? You know, like
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: that that's a and that's a natural thing, and it's
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: it's tough for the people in the clubhouse. You got
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to be able to have an honest conversation with them,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: but you know, just tell them, hey, you might not
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: know what what's going to happen for certain people, and
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you just got to be honest with them. You know.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: When I started my career, it was with the Colorado Rockies.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Dan O'Dowd was the GM and he was prone to
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: making wide scale moves. And when you make a lot
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: of moves, you get evaluated on those moves. And sometimes
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you make too many moves and you don't only lose
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: your job. And I remember we were intenuous footing at
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: some point and I said to Josh Burns, who was
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the assistant GM, like I'm concerned for my job, twhich
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: he said, I assure you if Dan loses his job,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I'm the only one in firing range, Like, they're probably
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: not going to go after the assistant to the assistant
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Baseball Operations at that time, which was a good, good
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: education for me. But you're right, you do think of
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it through the lens of how is this going to
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: impact me? And then, oh, by the way, Dan, I
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: think only served for seventeen more seasons as the GM
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of the Rockies, So whatever my assessment of insecurity was
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was a little bit off. But Nick, I would love
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: for you to just give the listeners a little bit
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: of a scouting report. Your first three gms are a
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: big time characters, exceptionally successful people in their own rights,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: a few guys who may end up in the Hall
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: of Fame, but Billy being Jim Bowden, Walt Jocketty, it's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a hell of a triumvirate for you to learn under. Like,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: give us one or two things that you took away
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: from the mentorship that they offered to you.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I think they're all different, all different people. They're all
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: very different in how they approached. Uh, Walt was a
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: very uh you know what was Walt had fun but
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: what was if you didn't know Walt, he was a
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: buttoned up guy that you know, was was pretty it
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: was pretty straightforward. He was a you know, very rarely
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: was out of place dress wise, you know, but but
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: he he wanted things done a certain way, and it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: was it was, uh, you know, this is how I
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: want it done. And you could talk to him about
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: things and you could work things out. But and I
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: love working with Walt, I really do. I learned a
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: lot about you know, I learned a lot about him patience.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not a very patient, but by nature my wife
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: will tell you that. But uh, you know, I Will
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: was a very patient person. And and you know, you
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: had to figure out how to see the whole picture.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And that's that's something I learned from wall Billy was
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a guy who he had lots of ideas and he
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: got lots of input from people, and there was there
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: was a lot of I learned like, there's not just
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: one way of doing things. And he he he he
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: was very open about that. He would talk about this
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: and options and and and how you know, he would
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: go about looking at things, whatever it was. And it
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: was that fascinated me. You know when when he's we
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: we got to go into his office every now and
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: then if you're doing something and and Paul would say,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: sit down, this is couch time. And you would sit
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: there and listen to him on the phone, and you
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: know it's something where you know, he just he'd kind
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: of start talking about this or this, and and it
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: was always like trying to get trying to be open
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: minded and whatever it was he was looking at. And Jim,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Jim was a guy who I didn't work very long
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: with in a direct role, but just talking to talking
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: about him, talking with different people. He's a guy that
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: knew what he wanted and he was going to go
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: make it happen, and he was going to figure out
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: how to make it happen no matter what. So you
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: learn a lot from just different people in the game.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And it's not just the people on top. It's also
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: some people that you know might be just starting out
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and everybody in between.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And all of
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the people have shaped us in some regards. You take
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: away the best elements of them. Sometimes you get educated
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: to what not to do as you said earlier, but
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: by and large, it's really rewarding to get a chance
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: to get exposed to so many people. And now you're
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: in that seat where you get to do the same
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and I want to take you there next. So you
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: get a chance in twenty eighteen to work alongside Dick
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Williams for a long time and he names you his
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: general manager as he's serving as the president of baseball operations,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and then low a few years later, he decided to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: step down pursue other opportunities, and you get the opportunity
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to become the president of the Cincinnati Reds, an organization
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: that you buy and large you've given your whole career. Two,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: can you walk us through what did those two promotions
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: mean to you? And succeeding Dick, what did that mean
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to you?
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, first off, like going into the uh going
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: in when when when Dick promoted me in in eighteen,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: it was one where it was middle of the season.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I got pulled into an office during a day game
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: with him and Bob and they just said, hey, we're
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: going to promote you, and uh, you know it was
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: it shocked me. It was definitely in shock. It was
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it was a really neat experience. And then we were
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: just trying to reshape scouting and player development and what
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: we were doing. And it's something we we tried to start,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: like from that day forward, we tried to start and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: reshape all of our scouting player development and it was
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of fun. It was. It's been
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun to uh uh work with some
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: of the people we've worked with and just make some
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: adjustments into what we were doing. And you know, a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: lot of people have done a really good job in
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: those two departments, but that's mostly what what what how
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: it started, uh when Dick stepped down, it also shocked me.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I was not expecting that one. Uh. We made the
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: playoffs in twenty twenty. Uh you know we we Obviously
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: it was a tough year for everybody, just a personal
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: tough year. It was a I think he you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: it was a tough year in terms of you didn't
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: get to see people, you didn't get to you know,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: you weren't interacting with people. And and he and I
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: both traveled with the team. We were in the bubble.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: We traveled the entire season, which was had some good
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: qualities and some bad qualities. But you know, at the
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: end of the day, I think he just he wanted
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to step down, and they gave me the opportunity and said, hey,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: here it is, and then we had to make some
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: changes around that.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Nick.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: When you take over, when you're promoted from within, I
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: think there's a really unique challenge, which is how do
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: you affect change when you've been part of building what
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: you've built? And also you're so intimately knowledgeable about all
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the people there, and any change is going to, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: by definition, impact some of those people who you've forged
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: exceptional relationships with. So what did you see as the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: biggest areas that you needed to change? But maybe equally
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: as important is how did you implement that change against
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the backdrop of non inflaming relations with people who were
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: probably really close friends with you at the time.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, first and foremost, it was
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: something where twenty twenty was tough on a lot of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: businesses and baseball wasn't just like that, and so we
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: had to end up treming payroll and it was you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: we had to figure out what was what a new
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: way of how can we get more big leaders. We
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: signed a handful of guys going into the twenty twenty season,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it just our
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: payroll was overinflated and we had to figure out how
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to how to trim some of that. But then when
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: we looked at it, it's like, how do we build
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: from our own organization? How do we build from draft
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: and development and you know, up through the organization and
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: build through our player pipeline. And that's that was our goal,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and that's that's how we set the direction. It was
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: more of, hey, this is the overarching direction we're going
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: to go. How do we go from here?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: So let's dive into that because as a GM of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: a small to moderate market team, we all know that
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the three you know, prominent paths to building a championship
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: team is through trades, through the amateur markets, both domestic
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and international, and through free agency. And being working in
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: a smaller market, you've got to really focus on nailing
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: those amateur markets and trades. You've been very aggressive on
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the trade front, but where I want to start this
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: conversation is more on the amateur front, because unlike a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: lot of your counterparts, you have done extremely well well
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in the draft, And I'm sure it's been intentional, but
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I wanted to just ask you, I look from the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: outside looking in, like the vast majority of your starting
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: rotation was built through the draft, and these are significant names,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you know, this is Hunter Green and Chase Burns, Andrew Rabbit,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Ret Louder and others. How intentional was that strategy? I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: know you've picked position players in the first round as well,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: but how intentional was that strategy in terms of trying
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: to build your your pitching pipeline through the draft.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously, you know you want you need
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a good stable of pitchers, you need a good group
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: of position players, but you know, in this ballpark, you've
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: got to have pitching. And it's sometimes tough to attract
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: pictures when you play in a small ballpark, and you
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: know we do play in a small ballpark. So it's
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: something we just looked at and said, Okay, we want
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: to balance draft, but if we can take some quality
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: arms up top that have a chance to be impact
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: starting pitchers, then we're going to be able to do that. So,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and you know Green was one that was taking a
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: while ago, Lynn nick Lodolo, Then it was Andrew Rabbit
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in the second round and Chase Burns a couple of
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: years ago. You know, it's when you look at those guys,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: you want guys I want to get. You know, you
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: want to come in and say, hey, I had a
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: chance to win every day, and each one of those
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: guys gives you a chance to win every day. And
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: you know, it's We've had some injuries earlier this year,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, with guys coming back, you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: hopefully we're going to get into a position where we'll
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: have that group together.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yet Nick our pass cross again here with one of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: those selections. In twenty seventeen, the Minnesota Twins have the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: first pick in the draft. The Cincinnati Red said the
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: second pick in the draft, I think at that time,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and I'd be curious your thoughts on this, we felt,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: the Twins felt at the time that there were five
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: players that kind of marked the top tier of the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: draft that year, and that was Mackenzie Gore, Royce Lewis, right,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Kyle Wright, and then the two players that we selected,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Hunter Green and Royce Lewis. Just curious, if you're willing
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: to reveal at that time, were you aspirational and hopeful
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that hunter Green would fall to you guys at two
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: or did you see the board clearly that he was here,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: was your number one choice, he.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Was our number one choice. It was it was for us.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It was clear we had him. Our our scouts had
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: him several you know ofp points above the next closest guy,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: and our our scouts loved him. Our our our cross
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: checkers are our scouting director. You know, we had a
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: lot of guys who really liked him and thought he
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: had a chance to be a legitimate anchor in the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: rotation and he's been all of that. But yeah, our
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: guys really loved.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Him well, and that's the right answer. The Green family
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: is the ardent listeners of rosters.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Dring.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So I think you nailed that answer. You did it
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: just right.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Interestingly, at the time we saw uh, we saw arguments
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: for all five. Candidly, we had the latitude with the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: first pick to get a little bit more aggressive with
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the negotiations. We had clearly ultimately separated Lewis above. You know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: in hindsight, as we look at that draft, I did
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a little homework before getting on with you. I don't
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: know if you are excellent at players. I'm just curious.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know who out of that draft has Garner
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: the most war to date out of the whole draft? Yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: that twenty seventeen draft, I don't know. Okay, Well, Hunters two,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Dalton var Show is number one. And here's the one
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: that no one would ever get. Number three is Bailey Ober,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: who the Minnesota Twins took in the twelfth round. Yep,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Mackenzie Gore, Royce Lewis, and Kyle Wright still round out
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the top nine. So those guys still round out the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: top nine. But who would have ever guessed that Bailey
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Ober would be would be number three on that list?
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Another draft question I wanted to ask you is twenty
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: twenty four, something absolutely miraculous happens for the Cincinnati Ritz,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: defying some crazy odds. I think I'm saying this right.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: You guys may have had like the thirteenth best odds
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in the uh the lottery to end up at the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: top of the draft, and you guys again picked number
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: two after what was a pretty solid twenty twenty three campaign.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: What was the feeling within your offices when you guys
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: got bumped up the board all the way up to
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: number two?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Uh? It was I think the guardians had the highest
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: or the most the lowest chance, and they got one
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: and we got two. So we One of our former players,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Devin Meserako, was the was the person that was responsible
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: for for you know, being there on TV during the pick,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: and he was walking around all day and he told everybody,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I came to win. I came to win. And when
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: he came to the room afterwards, we didn't know what
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: was going on. We were actually meeting with a player
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: at the winter meetings and we were during the during
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: what was happening, and when we were we kept getting
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: text messages. There were a couple of us that just
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: kept getting text messages said, uh, fifth, fourth, And I
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: didn't know what was happening at the time. I wasn't
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: really we were going to go back upstairs and figure
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: it out. But we went back up to the room
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: afterwards once we figured out what was going on, and
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Mez walked into the room and he was so excited
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: that he got the second pick. And I'll give him
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: all the credit for it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. That is wonderful. So in an and Draft,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: once again, it was Chase Burns sitting on top of
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: your guys board, travisman Zana ends up going one one
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to the Cleveland Guardians. But I mean, boy, Chase Burns
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: has been such a franchise difference maker for you guys
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: ever since you guys acquired him, and it looks like he's.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Going to be at the top of your rotation for
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: years to go. Yeah, our guys really loved him. They
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: thought he had a chance to be a top of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: the rotation starter. We had a group of guys that
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: were that we were talking about as if they get here,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: who who would it be? Who would the pick be?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Obviously the money comes into play, but it was something
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: that we are you know, our guys in the room
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: fell that Chase had a chance to be a legitimate
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: top of a rotation, you know, stopper type type of ase,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: and you know that he was. It was tough to
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: pass up.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Nick. You mentioned it earlier that you are not only
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: in a smaller market, but you're also in a hitter
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: friendly ballpark. A great American park is one of the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: best parks for hitters to hit in aside from just
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: getting swing and miss out of your starting rotation. Like,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: have you found statistics or qualities at perfectly or better
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: correlate to success at your ballpark.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: For pitchers, I think it's, you know, for the most part,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: it's a swinging miss. You know you want to get.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: It's you put balls in play here sometimes a pop
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: up will go out, So you know, the more swinging
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: miss you can get, the better off you're going to be.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, Nick, let's let's turn our attention. You also have
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: dipped your tootsies in the trade markets from time to time.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I want to take you at it after you you
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: mentioned this after twenty twenty and I think you've already
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: maybe given some light into this. You guys finished eighty
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: three and seventy nine and twenty twenty one, but you
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: kind of decide to take a step back going into
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. What went into that decision? And then
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: let's dive into a few of those traits. But first, like,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: what was the philosophy you mentioned a number earlier just
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: for the listeners when you reference to Bob, it's Bob CASTLINI,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the owner of the Cincinnati Reads. What was that presentation
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: like to him to justify maybe taking a half step
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: back to take two steps forward.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we know we looked at it from
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: a financial standpoint. First, you know, it was twenty twenty
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: was tough for everybody. Twenty twenty one started off where
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we were in partially filled stadiums and you know,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: we had to cut our budget going into the twenty
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: two season. We knew it. We knew it as a group.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: It was a collective decision that hey, let's figure out
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: how to like what's the plan here to go forward?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And it was to grow your own players and to
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: grow through your player pipeline and what you can do.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So we ended up having to take a step back
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: because of financial reasons to start with, and then to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: grow to grow your own players there. So that's how
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the decision was made. It was it was a collective decision,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and it was how can we got to figure out
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: how to do this a little different?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I can echo the same point
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen for the Minnesota Twins. They won one
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: hundred and one games, they had the bomba squad setting
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: a home run record, and then we had COVID. So
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: we didn't get the you know, the revenue bump that
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: we should have gotten with a spike in attendance. Twenty twenty,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the Twins also made the playoffs. Also, don't get the
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: revenue bump from that. For those small market teams. That
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: was really crippling, and that really shaped how we handled
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: roster construction for the upcoming years when it wasn't necessarily
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: how we planned it, but the revenues kind of forced
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: us into some of those decisions. So let's dive into
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: a few of those. I think something that was so
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: unique about your what you did in twenty twenty two
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: was you made four prominent trades. You made more trades
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: than that, but four prominent ones, two each with the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Seattle Mariners and two each with the Minnesota Twins. And
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: so I want to get into detail on a few
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: of those, but let's let's not overlook one. So you
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: end up trading Aohennioswaz, who I'd love to hear more
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: about because you've reacquired him and I've heard nothing but
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: awesome things about him from a chemistry standpoint and leadership standpoint.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: But you trade Bo Suarez and Jesse Winker to the Mariners.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You start building that pipeline that you reverenced earlier. You
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: get Williamson, Connor Phillips, Justin Dunn, and outfielder Jake Freeley
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: back in that deal. That's a significant deal, but probably
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: not the most valued asset you traded, which you do
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: later in the year, closer to the deadline, when you
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: trade Luis Castillo, also to the Seattle Mariners. I can
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: only imagine how many suitors were in the game at
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: that time for what was probably one of the pre
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: eminent starters in the game. How did you decide Seattle?
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: How much was that you know, your understanding of their
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: farm system and what you wanted to return, paved by
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that you had done a deal earlier in
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the in March with them.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: We had a lot of teams in on those We
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: had He and Tyler, which you know, like both of
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: those guys were probably the one two three with Frankie
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Mantas that were probably on the market in the middle
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: of twenty two. So we we had a lot of
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: conversations with a lot of different teams about where we
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: saw it, where the value of guys was, and we
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: had a lot of suitors. I was, you think you're
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: gonna have a lot, But then I was even more
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: surprised because he had a couple of years left of
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: control that there were even more maybe teams that were
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: out of it that that were still having interest in
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: him as well. So, you know, just but having a
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: lot of conversations with Jerry Depoto, you know, he's a
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: We had good conversations in in at the beginning of
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: the year when we had to come into the season
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: and we're cutting some things out, and then you know,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: we had a lot of conversations throughout the course of
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: the year because we started we started off slow, and
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it just made things a little bit easier to know, hey,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: you're going to sell this, this, and this when it
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: comes to the trade deadline, and so we had more
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: and more conversations the year progress.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I just just take the listener inside, like, how tough
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: is it to ultimately It's one thing to take a
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: star player like that to market, it's another thing to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: actually deliver and make the trade. Like how did how
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: did the marketplace respond? How did your owner respond? Ultimately
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: the decision to trade Luis Castio.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I think we all knew we had to do it.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: It was all, you know, with where he was in
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: his career, you know, where we were financially, it was
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: just something we had to We had to have a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: pretty good reset in terms of what we were doing,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and everybody was on board. Obviously. You know, somebody came
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: up to me at the UH after we after we
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: made the trade and talked about, you know, their trading
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: their favorite player, and it it you know, helped me
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: look back and say, you know, you look at the
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: from a fan perspective, it is really tough. It's tough
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: to trade someone's favorite player because I know when you know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: you know, when your favorite player gets traded as a kid,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: and how you feel and and you know, that's that's
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: really that's that's frush rating for a lot of people.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And it's something we knew we had to do from
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a long term outlook for from for this club. But
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: at the same time, it was something that you know,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: it was we had to do it in the best
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: interest of the club to make that decision, but it
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: was a tough deal. You know, you know, you sometimes
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: forget Jesse Winker was here for ten years as a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: minor league kid we drafted out of high school, minor
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: league guy into the big leagues, was an all star,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and it's a tough conversation to have, and you know,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: there was some personal stuff there with him and I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: got along well with Jesse, and you know, but just
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: telling him that you're traded was a Hey, I've been
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: here for ten years, now where am I going? And
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: how's this going to work? And you know, there was
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of things that were involved there.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: But you know, you have to do what's best for
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: the organization in this job, and that's that's what you're
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: tasked with.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Well, Nick, I'm sure you would agree with us. But
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: John Hart, who is a long time and very successful
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: general manager in his own right, said to us at times.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: He said, listen, the goal is not to have the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: same stars every year, but it's to have stars every year.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And so as much as we're trading today's favorite player,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: we're aspirational of acquiring tomorrow's favorite player like that. That
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: is what we're trying to do. But the goal isn't
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: to retain the same stars in perpetuity. That's when we
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: can really make mistakes, and those those will become burdensome
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: at some point and either cost us wins on the
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: field and or ultimately our job. So I think that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: is the reality. We're not in this for Q ratings.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: We're in this to try to build long term, sustained success,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and for markets like Cincinnati and Milwaukee and Minnesota and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Tampa and Cleveland, that typically comes with downcycling at some point.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And that's what you did. And you know, you make
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: four trades. The net of that is you get five pitchers,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: two middle infielders, and an outfielder. And most of those
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: guys were very decorated prospects at the time. So I
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: want to I want to turn the conversation a little
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: bit to the two trades you make with the Twins.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: In March. We pull off a trade where you guys say,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: send Annie Gray, a very established starting pitcher and Francis
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Paguero for a former first round draft pick, Chase Petty.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: What was your guy's valuation of Chase Petty at the time.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: And he is still with you guys in Triple A
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Louisville and has come up to the big leagues and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: supported the big league team and I'm sure will for
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: years to come.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he was a guy, was a chance
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: to be a solid starting pitcher, good arm, but he
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: was he was a high school kid at the time,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and you're just trying to figure out how to develop him.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I think you guys drafted him the year before, if
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken exactly right, and you know, we uh,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: we had we had another team that it was down
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: to you guys and another team, and we liked to
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: deal with the other team, but it was coming to
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: we weren't sure where it was going and uh with
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: who was which way we're going to go? And we
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: ended up picking your way. And it was something where
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I loved Sonny. I still do well. I
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: love love Sonny as a guy. I love Sonny as
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: a competitor teammate. You know, he was he was tremendous
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: for our organization. But it was something that you know,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: that was one of the tougher calls that I had
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: to make, just because you know, you get to be
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: friends with a guy and then hey, look that's that's
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: how it works. But we like Chase because he had
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of upside, and we still think he's got
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of upside. But I think it's you know,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: it happened so long ago. You forget that he was
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: an eighteen year old kid, nineteen year old kid when
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: we end up trading for him, and he's just getting
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: to the big leagues now and he's just trying to
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: find his own but he's got a chance to be
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: a solid big league sorry pitcher.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Nick, just to share and complete candor. At
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: the time, the Minnesota Twins needed another top of the
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: rotation guy, so we were willing to give up something
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: of significance to get it. And I think this is
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: a classic win win trade where it was the exact
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: right move for you guys at the time, and it
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: was the exact right move for the Twins. And I
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: don't know that there was really a winner or loser
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: of this deal. It was just what each franchise needed.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: But one of the things, which is an age old debate,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: is Chase Chase Petty is six foot to six foot one,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: is a right handed pitcher, and as you mentioned, was
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: a high school arm, and that's a really high risk
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: asset market. And so I think while we really liked him,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: we liked him enough to take him in the first
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: round of the draft, as you mentioned that the draft
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: proceeding when we made the trade, I think there was
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: enough of a risk factor in our minds that maybe
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: he was going to end up in the bullpen. We
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: thought he was a big league arm. We thought this
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: stuff was going to play, but we were willing to
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: part with something of significance, and in this case it
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: was from a you know, kind of a slice of
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: the pie, which comes with a little bit more risk
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: maybe than others do, and that was why we were
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: willing to make that deal. One thing I'll just share
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: with the listeners, and I'm sure you may have had
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: the same experience. One of the things that Sonny brought
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: to our clubhouse is that he would change the clocks
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: all the time because he was like, I think there
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: may be in a tickle amount of OCD in the man.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: He had to synchronize all the clocks in the building
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: so sometimes and he's not a tall man in his
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: own right, so you would find him standing on a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: swivel chair trying to take clocks off the wall and
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: change and we're like, I appreciate the OCD sening, but
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: for goodness sakes, can we have somebody who's making slightly
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: less money a stand on the swivel chair and change
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: the clocks for you rather than have you do it.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: But he delivered that level of professionalism to us. The
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: other thing I'll share about Sonny Gray, which was so
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: palpable was we made the playoffs, and I remember distinctly
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: that we had some Edward Julian was a rookie and
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: he had this care free attitude of like, Wow, we're
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: going to the playoffs. I guess this is what we
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: do every year. And then I remember looking across the
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: clubhouse and seeing Sonny and he had a look in
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: his eyes like, Hey, this may be the last time
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I get to do this, and I'm going to approach
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: it with urgency. And it maybe realize in that moment
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: how each player within this organism that we call the
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Clubhouse approaches these opportunities differently. So let's jump to the
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: second trade, which is a real significance. You and I
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: negotiated this one. Tyler Maley comes to the Twins in
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: what is known as a class A fleecing by Nick Krawl,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: where he garnered in return Christian Incarnacian Strand a left
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: handed pitcher named Stephen Hadger, who you have since traded
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I believe in Spencer Steer. Turns out to be a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: great trade for Cincinnati. Unfortunately Tyler gets hurt for the Twins.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: It also could have been a win win. Again here,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: no control of yours or ours. But Tyler has some
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: injury concerns with the twins. But you identified two guys
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: who became stalwarts in your offense. Spencer Steer is still
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: hitting in the middle of your order. What was it
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: that you saw in those three players? And the other
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: thing I'll share. I believe we also started the conversation
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: with you expressing interest in Luis Castillo twhich you very
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: kindly said to me, you don't have possibly enough in
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: your whole organization to get Louis Castillo. Joecho I said,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I also would like to express interest in Tyler malle T,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: which you said, Now that's a conversation we can have.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Uh No, those like and those are those are ones
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: that you you if Tyler goes somewhere, you want him
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: to have success. And that was tough. I mean, he missed,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: He missed almost the whole time with you guys, if
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, and you know he's he's a he's
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: a really good guy, really competes, and you don't want
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: to trade an injured player like that to somebody else
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: because you want to make deals with people in the future.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's that's one of those where
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: you you feel bad about it on the other end,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: but you know, you have you had to make it
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: at the beginning. Uh. With Spence, you know, he was
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: a guy that we we really liked. Uh had a
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: chance to play all over the field, Uh, in different roles,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: the what kind of what we're using him now he's
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: become a Gold Glove finalist last year at first base. Uh,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: but he's he can hit, he's got some power, he's
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: got a good approach, He's a good clubhouse guy. He
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: just really fits into everything we're doing. You Know, Christian
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: we thought was a guy that was going to be
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: middle of the order bat and you know, he had
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: some had some injuries over the course of the last
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: couple of years and it just ended up not working
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: out for him. Here he's in Baltimore and and you know,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: wish him the best. I like Christian. He's a good guy. Uh,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: He's he's a really good person. Works hard, but you know,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: just at the end of the day, it just didn't work.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: And change the scenery was was important, but you know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: the chance to be a middle of the order bat
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: was was something that that was appealing. And then uh,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Steve Hajr we we we had very briefly we ended
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: up having and we I think we traded him before
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: the season even started. Uh we traded him as a
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: player to be named later for Will Benson and uh
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: we were able to get to get Will out out
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: of the deal. But you know, Hadre was a guy
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that we liked. He had some there was some medical
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: concerns there that we all knew about, and you know,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: I think it ended up ending his career at the
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: end of the day. But he had a really good arm,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: had a chance to be either a back into the
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: rotation or bullpen type. Guy. Just liked the arm. But
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: just you know, kind of like you guys took the
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: shot with Petty. We took the shot because Will was
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit farther ahead in his career than Steve was.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it turned out to be a great trade for
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: you guys. So two last observations and one final question
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: for you. So we scout, We talent evaluate all the time.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And one of the things Nick about you is you
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: were the guy who when you called to express interest
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: in players, somehow you knew our farm system as well
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: as we knew our farm system. So you always had
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: to be on your toes there'd be a chance that
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: you'd ask for a player in your trade, and I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: would then need to hold my hand over the receiver
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and say to somebody in the room, who the heck
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: did he just ask for?
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: And should I be.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Saying yes or no? Here so amazing ability. If you
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: recall that that was always something that blew me away
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: about you.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: You always said that, and I appreciated that.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, another thing, just doing my research for this conversation,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: one thing I just wanted to bring to light. I
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know this off the top of
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: your head, but in your tenure twenty one to twenty
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: twenty five, the Cincinnati Reds have had the fifth highest
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: percentage increase in attendance, which I think is of note.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: You know, in these markets where attendance matters revenue matters,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that is a reflection of the quality of product you
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: put on the field and to what extent you have
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: effectively entertained your fans, which is fundamentally part of our jobs.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And that brings me to my last question for you, Nick.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty five, you guys need to wait till
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: literally the last day of the season to be able
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: to pop some champagne. When you clinch a playoff spot,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: take us into that room. It's a long time coming
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: for you to get you you've made the playoffs before
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: several times with the Cincinnati Reds, but this is the
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: first time as the president of Baseball Operations.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: What was that feeling like for you, Well, we lost
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: the game, which was tough. You know, we're coming into
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: the last day tied with the Mets and we lost.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: We knew they were down, so we had to wait.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I think they had to play another full inning. We
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: just didn't play well that last game, and we played
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: pretty well most of the entire last two weeks to
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: get in that position. And you're in the clubhouse, you're
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: just waiting and waiting and waiting. I think it was
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: four nothing that Marlins were beating the Mets, and you're
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: just you're waiting and that final out and the you know,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the exhalation, the you know, everybody just cheering, and you
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: know in your clubhouse, guys who have waited a long
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: long time to be a part of that. Uh, was
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: was really special. You know, we had a lot of
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: good people there, a lot of good people in the
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: coaching staff. You know, it's been great to uh with
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Tito coming in and just you know, being being a
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: part of it with him and Brad Metter and you know,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: it's it was a lot of fun to have people
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: there and just be really excited about where we were
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: and what we accomplished, and then hey, what's next. How
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: can we get to the next level and how can
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: we continue to move on And that's something that we've
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: we've talked about a lot.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, a theme of this conversation. You know,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: we don't control whether we win the ring at the
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: end of the World Series, but it's these memories, it's
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: these relationships that we have, these experiences that are worth
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: their weight in gold. And that's really the measure to
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: me of success in our game is how many people's
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: lives we've impacted, whether it's the fans or the people
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: you've gotten a chance to work with, and how many
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: people be allowed to impact your life and those moments
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: where you just it's so brought to the forefront, and
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the fact that you did it for a franchise that
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: you would work so long for just makes it that
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: much more special because you know everybody there, you know
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the impact it has on every usher that works in
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: that stadium and you're making memories. And that's the business
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: we're in. We're the memory making business. Ideally we win
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: a ring or two along the way, but don't miss
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: on those opportunities to make memories for people.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: You know. It's funny, like I remember, like the thing
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I remember most about that day though, is yeah, the celebration, Yeah,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: how great it was. But being able to write the
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: email at the end of the day on the plane
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: when we're going to Los Angeles. That just thanked all
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: of the scouts, all the player development staff, all the
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: people in analytics, you know, all the people in your
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: sales staff that do a lot of different things. You
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: know that you sometimes don't see the people that are
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: your clubhouse relations, people that are helping you know, players
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: in their charities. But you know, seeing those people and
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: seeing what they do and seeing how they work on
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: a daily basis, and every single person had a part
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: of it. And I don't think I think sometimes that
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: you say, oh, you know, my rehab guy in Arizona
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a part in it. Oh he does, because
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: we sent guys out there and they came back. Your
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: player development staff, your scouting staff, I think that's that's
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: the most rewarding thing is to see everybody in your
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: organization that touched at least a small piece of what
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: we did last year.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Well, Nick, I think that's another thing of what makes
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: you so special is it's not about us, right, It's
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: like in those moments of celebration, it's how much can
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: you spread that across the whole workforce, because as you said,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: everyone plays a part. There's no such thing as a
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: small part in a championship run, and you guys took
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: that huge step last year. And wishing you the best
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: of luck move forward. I want to thank you for
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: sharing your passion and your wisdom here. Nick, really appreciate
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: it especial getting to spend forty five minutes with you here. Well,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: thanks again for Nick Krawl for joining us and sharing
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: his wisdom and his passion for the game of baseball
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: and all of his insights over his career here on
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Roster Ster Rings. We're going to take a two week hiatus.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: We've been doing this for over a year and it's
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: been glorious and I really appreciate the tremendous support from
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: the listeners. We're going to come back in mid June.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: With some formatting changes, hopefully some improvements along the way,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: maybe a new voice or two joining us on rostery rings.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: So join us back on roster ster rings in mid
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: June