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Nintendo Derangement Syndrome · Critical Error

• 0:00
  Peter, I'm getting sick and tired of all
• 0:02
  these weirdo Nintendo fans, these nerds
• 0:05
  out there collecting financial data,
• 0:08
  little lore, behind the scenes
• 0:10
  interview. Oh, do you remember Iata
• 0:12
  asks? Remember, Peter,
• 0:14
  >> here's here's the thing.
• 0:15
  >> Oh god, they're the worst. Aren't those
• 0:17
  guys the worst?
• 0:18
  >> Are those weird Nintendo fans? Aren't
• 0:20
  they just the worst?
• 0:22
  >> ABRAM, NO.
• 0:23
  >> A critical error is an error which the
• 0:25
  OS cannot reasonably ignore. Sh. Jake
• 0:28
  Steinberg is a streamer and writer and
• 0:30
  certified yapper. Complimentary. Peter
• 0:33
  Hunt. Spit tech is a YouTuber,
• 0:36
  journalist, and certified yapper.
• 0:38
  Derogatory. These are the things they
• 0:40
  cannot reasonably ignore.
• 0:42
  >> Nintendo derangement syndrome. What is
• 0:45
  going on with Nintendo fans these days?
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  I feel like for ever since like the
• 0:50
  Switch 2 launched, something has been
• 0:53
  wrong in the Nintendo community. I
• 0:56
  frequently lament the kind of current
• 0:59
  state of Nintendo YouTube, Nintendo
• 1:02
  podcasts. I find that it is hard to
• 1:05
  listen to. We find ourselves in a rut of
• 1:08
  decoding financial data, trying to
• 1:11
  predict when the next Nintendo Direct is
• 1:13
  going to be, just falling to our knees
• 1:15
  and anguish when those predictions do
• 1:18
  not work out. And all of this amidst
• 1:21
  what I would say is an incredibly
• 1:24
  successful run for a brand new console
• 1:27
  with fantastic games. What is fueling
• 1:32
  the insecurity, the anxiety, the despair
• 1:35
  in the Nintendo community to answer
• 1:38
  these questions. We have brought on our
• 1:40
  friend Abram from Lost in Cult. Abram,
• 1:43
  thank you so much for joining the
• 1:44
  Critical Error podcast.
• 1:45
  >> I'm very excited to be here. Day one
• 1:46
  supporter. I love Critical Error. very
• 1:49
  happy to be here.
• 1:50
  >> Ooh, excellent. So, Abram, I just went
• 1:52
  on a little bit of a a tear there about
• 1:54
  the Nintendo community, and part of the
• 1:55
  reason why we wanted to invite you or
• 1:58
  the Nintendo online community, let's
• 2:00
  say, and part of the reason we wanted to
• 2:01
  invite you onto the show today is
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  because I feel like you have a finger on
• 2:04
  the pulse of what is going on in the
• 2:07
  Nintendo online space. I hope a lot of
• 2:09
  our listeners kind of like understand
• 2:11
  where it is that I am coming from. I I
• 2:14
  don't think that it is a foreign concept
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  to pe to people that there is just this
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  deluge of rumor speculation. When is the
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  next Nintendo Direct? I think this is
• 2:24
  going to be in the next Nintendo Direct
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  and that kind of content kind of
• 2:28
  dominating this space. Um are you tired
• 2:32
  of it?
• 2:34
  >> Yes, I am I am quite tired of it. Um I
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  do want to be clear at the top if
• 2:39
  anybody's not familiar with me. You can
• 2:41
  go find plenty of uh shrill and
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  embarrassing videos of me um watching
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  Nintendo Directs and getting to sort of
• 2:49
  the verge of tears for a game like
• 2:51
  Pikmin 4. So, I'm not coming I'm not
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  coming into this conversation uh
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  pretending like I don't indulge and
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  really love this side of the Nintendo
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  community, but I think that there is a
• 3:01
  real need to find new ways of talking
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  about Nintendo that engages more
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  directly and more specifically with the
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  games themselves. And not only the games
• 3:12
  that are out in the moment, but the
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  games that of the recent past, in the
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  far past. I think that Nintendo gives us
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  so many opportunities, not only by
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  releasing interesting games almost every
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  month, but by bringing back old games on
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  NSO to really connect to what we have
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  instead of thinking about what we might
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  get in the future. And I think that not
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  enough people are taking advantage of
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  that opportunity and instead we're
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  taking this very lowhanging fruit um in
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  the discourse and I think it's um it's
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  making it harder to appreciate the games
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  and ultimately that's what I advocate
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  for the most.
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  I'm wondering about this this lack of
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  focus on the games because I feel like
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  something that we've talked about on
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  this show before is the Nintendo
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  paratext. How the modern Nintendo fan
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  increasingly engages with trailers,
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  release schedules, marketing beats,
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  leaks, rumors, investor calls, uh direct
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  presentations,
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  uh more than they are interacting with
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  the games themselves. So like the leak
• 4:13
  becomes the event that we're all talking
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  about. Then the direct or the
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  anticipation of the direct becomes the
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  event and then the uh absence of the
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  announcement also becomes the event. And
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  I think that's why the speculation
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  ecosystems feel so emotionally volatile
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  because people are no longer reacting to
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  the games but instead to these
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  anticipatory frameworks surrounding the
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  games. So, you know, we find that these
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  Nintendo directs end up taking on a
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  lurggical structure. They are a ritual
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  point. It is Nintendo has
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  unintentionally created a recurring
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  ceremony. And it's like this is why a
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  delayed Nintendo Direct or missing an
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  announcement produces this existential
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  panic because the cadence itself has
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  become kind of the stabilizing
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  infrastructure for the audience. Now, I
• 5:01
  guess my question for you would be
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  all of this content surrounding when the
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  direct is going to be, when what the
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  what the leaks are, if the leaker is
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  reputable, if we should believe the
• 5:12
  leaks, the all of this conversation. Um,
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  is there have we done it? Have we done
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  this conversation to the point of
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  exhaustion or is there more to unearth?
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  Why is this so interesting to the
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  Nintendo content listener? Why is this?
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  Cuz to me, from the outside, I look at
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  this content and I say, I understand
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  being interested in this for about 3
• 5:36
  months.
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  >> For about 3 months,
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  >> you know what I mean? Like, like if this
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  were the first time it happened, like,
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  oh, yeah, sure, but then Yeah. Sorry.
• 5:43
  Don't mean to interf No, no, no. I No,
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  please. I I I appreciate it. I I because
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  I think Peter, you agree that like once
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  you kind of run through the motions of a
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  game getting leaked and then how people
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  talk about it up until the reveal,
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  you've seen it. It's over. It's
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  regardless of what the game actually is,
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  it's the same thing pretty much every
• 6:00
  single time. Yeah.
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  >> Mhm. Yeah.
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  >> Here's what I'll say.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> I'm going to dumb it down a level
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  because I think part of part of what's
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  useful about me being in this
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  conversation is that there's not a
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  single bone in my body that treats any
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  Nintendo with anything other than a
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  super fan perspective, right?
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  >> And while I might be more discerning
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  than some other people that might have
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  that title as well, I very much love
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  Nintendo. And if I could close my eyes
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  and have one wish and not be judged for
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  not being about trying to better the
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  world, that wish would be to know what
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  Nintendo games I'm going to be playing
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  in the middle of 2027. At any moment, I
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  want to know everything about Nintendo.
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  And I'm very greedy in that way. And I
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  think that we're in this interesting
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  moment right now where Nintendo spent a
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  long time about a little bit more than a
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  decade. Well, yeah, about a decade
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  training people uh to expect news in
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  these directs at fairly regular
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  intervals. They set up an expectation
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  that has been broken uh with with things
• 7:02
  like Nintendo today, with things like
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  dropping a direct 15 minutes after its
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  announcement. And I think this has
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  thrown the community off its axis
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  because now instead of predictably
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  expecting a direct in, you know, in that
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  in that first three months of the year,
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  >> anything could happen. And so I think
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  that we've created this environment
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  where um these leakers are giving us
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  something that Nintendo isn't. Now
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  Nintendo is still giving us plenty of
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  news. There's maybe more Nintendo news
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  per week than there ever has been, but
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  it's not it's not coming through the
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  channels I think that people want it to
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  come through. And so, in some ways, uh,
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  a leaker coming out and saying this,
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  that, and the third is releasing for the
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  rest of 2026 on Nintendo systems, that's
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  the Nintendo Direct for the first
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  quarter of the year,
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  >> and it's taking that place. And so it's
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  hard to be tired of this I think in the
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  community when you're longing for
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  somebody to just lay lay the track in
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  front of you.
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  >> Do you think that so you know Nintendo
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  obviously is very interested in like
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  continuing to sort of like have this you
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  know what you said more like 24-hour
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  news cycle by having Nintendo today and
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  having like so many avenues for getting
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  like Nintendo news and whatever else.
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  Um, do you think that that is like that
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  the community will eventually adapt to
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  be fine with that or are we just because
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  I mean I think gaming culture at large
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  is interested in these big announcements
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  that happen where it's like boom boom
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  boom boom like eight things all at once
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  in the style of the Nintendo Direct and
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  whatever because they're not like
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  shifting away from doing that entirely,
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  right? They still do their Nintendo
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  Directs and showcases and whatever. Do
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  you think that like is there a is it
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  just going to take time for people to
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  like uh sort of jump on board with how
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  they are seemingly doing that now or is
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  it something that people just aren't
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  going to be like down with do you think?
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  >> Yeah, I don't know. I mean the the
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  Nintendo Direct became such an
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  institution not only in the community
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  but sort of in the way that gaming
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  information is delivered broadly. I mean
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  you probably wouldn't have a mechanism
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  like State of Play if there was not
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  Nintendo Directs.
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  >> Sure. And and so I think that, you know,
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  that was such a potent delivery device
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  that not having that as regularly is
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  tough for people to wrap their heads
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  around. And I do place the blame for
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  this in part at Nintendo's feet. I think
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  what we need to do as a community is
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  acknowledge that, yeah, the way Nintendo
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  is giving us information is kind of
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  peculiar. It's kind of peculiar to
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  announce the Star Fox Direct 15 minutes
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  before it airs. So what I think we have
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  to do is insulate our discourse from
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  Nintendo's marketing schemes. If if they
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  are going to need another year or two to
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  work out a way to train people about
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  when you're going to get news and how
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  >> in that period of instability instead of
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  getting all up in arms about where the
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  direct is or isn't, I think we need to
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  pursue different ways of talking about
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  Nintendo that we control that aren't
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  contingent on when news is coming.
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  because I can spin up a billion things
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  to talk about about Nintendo and I know
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  that everybody else in the community can
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  as well, but we choose not to. There's
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  this hyperfixation that I think is
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  actually exaggerated by the
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  inconsistency of the schedule of
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  Nintendo Directs and and news beats as
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  of late.
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  >> I I see what you're saying that Nintendo
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  kind of created this beast and we that
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  that cadence of announcements created a
• 10:20
  fan that expected something and then
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  when you don't get what you're
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  expecting, you're like where where is
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  this thing? And it creates this hunger
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  for it. I completely get that. And I do
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  think that like Nintendo discourse just
• 10:30
  increasingly rewards proximity to
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  information over proximity to
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  experience. I wonder if you are able to
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  flip that script. I wonder if that is
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  something that is achievable, what that
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  looks like to achieve, and whose
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  responsibility ultimately that is to
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  kind of say, I'm going to reject the
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  constant once a day Nintendo rumor
• 10:56
  theory video in favor of this other kind
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  of content. Do you put that at the feet
• 11:01
  of the content creator? Do you put that
• 11:03
  at the feet of the games media person?
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  Do you put that at the feet of the
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  viewer themselves? I I'm just kind of
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  thinking out loud here. term. Yeah,
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  please. I
• 11:10
  >> I think it's interesting because I think
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  the larger question that you're asking
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  is like how do we like change gaming
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  culture, right? Because it it's like the
• 11:19
  the answer is like how do you change it?
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  It's like, well, you figure out whoever
• 11:23
  drives gaming culture. And the tricky
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  thing is it's like well, you know, let's
• 11:29
  talk about Nintendo culture. Well,
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  Nintendo drives Nintendo culture, but
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  then also you have leakers like Nathan,
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  whoever else who are driving the
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  culture, and then you have the content
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  creators and whatever. And so it's this
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  sort of like cyclical thing where it's
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  like to the point that you're making
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  like how do you even figure out where to
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  start, you know? And I think a lot of it
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  would have to do with um hopefully like
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  having a more curious and um more maybe
• 11:54
  introspective like audience, you know,
• 11:56
  who is interested in things other than
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  just like well what's the big leak?
• 12:00
  What's the what's the today's news of
• 12:02
  it? Like can we not look at these games
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  and discuss them closely? as you know we
• 12:06
  are big advocates for here. Um and and
• 12:09
  but how you get those people to want
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  that uh I don't know I think I do think
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  that like content creators and people
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  making this sort of thing uh if if
• 12:19
  there's a lot of it and people like you
• 12:21
  know lean away from doing things like
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  just like the constant news and the
• 12:25
  constant leaks and speculation whatever
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  then I think it starts to turn into a
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  desire for other stuff but then you know
• 12:31
  people are making a lot of money in in
• 12:32
  doing that and and stuff like that.
• 12:35
  Yeah. I mean, I I think that to to your
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  point, Peter, there's like a real um
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  material
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  uh utility in these daily videos, daily
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  news videos. And to be clear, I know,
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  not to sound like I'm clouded up in the
• 12:49
  Nintendo world, cuz I'm certainly not,
• 12:51
  but I know a lot of these people and and
• 12:53
  I know that
• 12:54
  >> some of them don't want to be doing this
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  and they feel in some ways beholden to
• 12:59
  an audience that primarily cares about
• 13:01
  this. So the point about needing to
• 13:03
  cultivate that curious audience is
• 13:05
  important because
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  >> I think that if the audience wasn't so
• 13:10
  hungry for this stuff, then maybe our
• 13:12
  content creators, who I would argue do a
• 13:14
  lot to drive Nintendo discourse,
• 13:16
  especially in the hardcore, would be
• 13:18
  able to push conversation in more
• 13:19
  interesting directions.
• 13:21
  >> Part of the argument I would make is
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  that
• 13:24
  >> that's already happening and we can
• 13:25
  already do that. There's plenty of
• 13:28
  videos that people like to clown on,
• 13:30
  like a it's no masterpiece retrospective
• 13:33
  about a Nintendo game two years later.
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  But those videos get 3 million views,
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  and those shape the perception of these
• 13:40
  games in the community for years to
• 13:41
  follow.
• 13:41
  >> Yeah, definitely.
• 13:42
  >> Majora's Mask got one of these videos
• 13:45
  famously. All the Zelda games get these
• 13:46
  re-examinations.
• 13:49
  Games like ChibiRobo and Paper Mario are
• 13:52
  only relevant to sections of the
• 13:53
  Nintendo community because of particular
• 13:55
  Nintendo YouTubers espousing the virtues
• 13:58
  of these games. And so I would argue
• 14:00
  that part of making that audience more
• 14:03
  curious is giving them more of the
• 14:05
  content that we see works. I I kind of
• 14:08
  reject the idea um that you have to do
• 14:11
  this sort of speculative content to
• 14:13
  catch the eye of the audience because I
• 14:14
  think it's already happening. And I
• 14:15
  think with Star Fox, the 2026 remake
• 14:18
  that just got announced, we're actually
• 14:20
  seeing how a lot of Nintendo YouTubers
• 14:22
  guided that discourse into getting
• 14:23
  people to care about it being a
• 14:25
  retelling of the story of Star Fox
• 14:28
  because most people understand Star Fox
• 14:30
  through YouTube. Those games never sold
• 14:33
  well. Those games are not being talked
• 14:35
  about from a place of firsthand
• 14:36
  experience. They're being talked about
• 14:38
  from a place of understanding them as
• 14:40
  cultural objects as our YouTubers and
• 14:44
  content creators and writers have
• 14:45
  positioned them. So, I think that there
• 14:48
  is a route forward for this better
• 14:50
  content. And I think that the audience
• 14:52
  is interested in it, but we just I think
• 14:55
  have to be um brave enough to say, well,
• 14:59
  maybe I don't need that to make that
• 15:01
  fifth speculative video this week.
• 15:03
  >> Okay. Yeah, it's it's a crutch and it's
• 15:05
  easy.
• 15:05
  >> It's easy. And yeah, it's easy. And I
• 15:07
  and I totally get that and I think it
• 15:09
  can feel good when you do a social media
• 15:10
  post and it gets a bunch of likes or
• 15:12
  whatever. But I really like the point
• 15:13
  that you're making just about how much
• 15:16
  motion a lot of these Nintendo YouTubers
• 15:18
  really do have in the space because I
• 15:20
  think that you're entirely correct. And
• 15:22
  something I've talked about before on
• 15:23
  this podcast is maybe how um online
• 15:26
  sentiment was able to bolster the
• 15:28
  reputation of a game like Kirby Airride.
• 15:30
  People can disagree with me in that all
• 15:32
  they want. Doesn't matter. But I think
• 15:33
  maybe a more relevant and easy to grasp
• 15:35
  example in this particular moment might
• 15:37
  be um I've been thinking a lot about the
• 15:39
  Pokemon games, particularly Pokemon Gen
• 15:41
  One. And it's this funny thing where
• 15:44
  like how many people in 2026 really even
• 15:49
  played those games, Pokemon Red and
• 15:51
  Blue, and then how many people played
• 15:53
  those games before anything else? How
• 15:56
  many people played them before playing
• 15:57
  the anime? how many people played them
• 15:59
  before having all of these kinds of um
• 16:02
  touch points for their understanding.
• 16:04
  And I think as time goes on, you find
• 16:06
  that that number, whatever that number
• 16:07
  is, gets smaller and smaller. So when
• 16:10
  these games come up, they are reduced to
• 16:12
  a set of kind of pre-selected talking
• 16:14
  points. And the things that come up with
• 16:16
  these games are kinds of the things that
• 16:19
  YouTubers have calcified into the
• 16:22
  conversation space. So, the first thing
• 16:24
  that anybody will say when they talk
• 16:26
  about Pokemon Red and Blue is that those
• 16:28
  games are full of bugs. Whereas, if you
• 16:30
  were to talk to anyone who played those
• 16:33
  games when they came out, I just really
• 16:36
  don't think that that was going to be a
• 16:38
  talking point. I really don't. And I
• 16:40
  think it wasn't until we decided in
• 16:43
  reference to all of the other games and
• 16:45
  when we can kind of as lore masters and
• 16:47
  super fans zoom out and see what the
• 16:50
  conversation is with these games in a
• 16:52
  way that's not tied to experience, but
• 16:54
  in a way that's tied to them as objects
• 16:56
  in a long lineage. They start to get
• 16:59
  these reputations that are not uh even
• 17:01
  close to experiential. Yeah, Peter,
• 17:03
  >> I wonder too like uh in the same way
• 17:06
  that like uh you know, you see a picture
• 17:08
  of someone from the 80s and you're like,
• 17:10
  "Yep, that's '8s fashion." Like I'm I'm
• 17:12
  going to be curious to see like let's
• 17:14
  say in 30 years,
• 17:16
  >> what the like fashion quote unquote of
• 17:19
  like video game discourse and talking
• 17:21
  points are, right? Cuz when you say
• 17:23
  like, "Oh, these games are full of bugs
• 17:25
  and whatever." I'm like, was that even
• 17:26
  something people cared about in what,
• 17:29
  2002? Whenever those games first came
• 17:30
  out, 2004? in so far as there was
• 17:33
  Caterpie and Weedle everywhere.
• 17:35
  >> Sure.
• 17:38
  Very good. Um, yeah. No, cuz it's like
• 17:41
  uh uh I mean, hey, those games had ray
• 17:44
  trace reflections, right? When you walk
• 17:45
  by the water. Uh um obviously you know
• 17:48
  what I'm saying but like like I'm
• 17:50
  curious too this idea of like okay
• 17:52
  people are driving these conversations
• 17:53
  when when they do retrospectives and
• 17:55
  look backs at these sorts of games and
• 17:57
  then when they get remade or made in
• 17:59
  different ways or whatever with this
• 18:00
  like Star Fox whatever it's like oh this
• 18:03
  is the discourse that we do now but it
• 18:05
  is for
• 18:07
  Star Fox 64 essentially right because
• 18:09
  it's being redone in in whatever
• 18:11
  capacity that is and and when we look at
• 18:13
  the way that we're talking about it now
• 18:14
  it's like about these specific speific
• 18:16
  bits of criteria that we have for games
• 18:18
  right now that get applied to all games.
• 18:21
  And in my personal opinion, I find it to
• 18:23
  be like kind of exhausting because it's
• 18:24
  not that interesting because it's like
• 18:26
  once you've applied it to one game,
• 18:28
  we've had the conversation and then very
• 18:30
  rarely are we getting anything new and
• 18:32
  substantial and interesting when we
• 18:33
  apply it to the next game and the next
• 18:36
  game and the next game.
• 18:37
  >> Let me let me make this extremely
• 18:38
  material, I think. So, like a game
• 18:40
  that's kind of been in the video game
• 18:42
  discourse over the past week has been
• 18:44
  this mixtape game,
• 18:45
  >> dog. [ __ ] toxic toxic online.
• 18:48
  >> And we're not going to and I don't think
• 18:50
  we're going to do a whole episode about
• 18:51
  mixtape, but uh something that I that I
• 18:53
  think I do want to put forward for forth
• 18:56
  about this game is that I find that the
• 18:58
  discourse coming from people who played
• 19:01
  the game and people who have not played
• 19:03
  the game is almost indistinguishable
• 19:06
  from each other. It is extremely hard to
• 19:09
  tell from my point of view who has
• 19:11
  actually played the game and who is
• 19:12
  simply responding to the aesthetics that
• 19:14
  they picked up in a trailer. And this is
• 19:17
  something that I see countless times
• 19:20
  when we talk about Nintendo games,
• 19:23
  right? So again, to make it material,
• 19:25
  >> the Star Fox Direct comes out last week
• 19:29
  and I would say that there are two
• 19:32
  prevailing conversations. One, how do
• 19:34
  people feel about the fact that it is a
• 19:36
  remake? And two, how do people feel
• 19:40
  about the aesthetic choices made, the
• 19:42
  character designs? Yes.
• 19:43
  >> Abram, would you say that's that's
• 19:44
  accurate?
• 19:46
  >> Yes.
• 19:46
  >> Okay.
• 19:47
  >> Actually, if I can throw in a third one
• 19:48
  as well,
• 19:49
  >> I would love one. Yes. um
• 19:53
  the game as a kind of business object
• 19:56
  and brand exercise in so far as it does
• 19:59
  or does not represent the best possible
• 20:03
  chance for Star Fox to become a
• 20:05
  mainstream property. I think that's
• 20:06
  another critical one.
• 20:10
  >> Okay. All right. A lot to unpack here. I
• 20:12
  like this. Let's let's cut it up about
• 20:13
  Star Fox a little bit. So, I think like
• 20:16
  the first
• 20:17
  >> I'm in hell, by the way.
• 20:20
  Go on. Sorry.
• 20:21
  >> Thanks, Fox. Uh, so the the Okay, so I
• 20:25
  think like
• 20:27
  how you feel about the character designs
• 20:31
  is like a very funny point of discourse
• 20:34
  because the conversation ends
• 20:36
  immediately. Immediately you look at a
• 20:39
  screenshot and then you look at the
• 20:40
  camera and you say, "I like it or I
• 20:42
  don't like it." This form, at least from
• 20:45
  my point of view, when I see this
• 20:46
  online, this takes two separate forms.
• 20:48
  one, I don't like it because it's ugly,
• 20:51
  or two, it's ugly and I like it. That's
• 20:53
  it. And and the the amount of like
• 20:56
  ingenuity that people think they have
• 20:58
  when they when they announce this to
• 21:00
  their crowds, it's to me, this is no
• 21:02
  different than when people were
• 21:04
  complaining about the Windows in Pokemon
• 21:06
  Legends ZA. The discourse is
• 21:08
  functionally the same as whether or not
• 21:10
  you say you like the designs in Star Fox
• 21:14
  >> Switch 226, let's say. So, what's so
• 21:17
  weird about it too though is like
• 21:20
  >> when I hear that people are talking
• 21:22
  about like oh the designs of the
• 21:23
  characters and whatever. Uh I for
• 21:26
  whatever reason I'm like always like
• 21:27
  assuming like the best intention out of
• 21:29
  everyone cuz I'm like oh we're talking
• 21:31
  about like I I wonder if there's like a
• 21:32
  nuanced discussion of character design
• 21:34
  going on and it's not that right cuz I
• 21:36
  think we can have those conversations
• 21:37
  about like
• 21:39
  character design is is fascinating right
• 21:41
  and how characters are portrayed and and
• 21:43
  what they look like and whatever and
• 21:44
  there's like so many things you can
• 21:45
  actually talk about with that but
• 21:46
  usually you know you're going to have to
• 21:48
  pair that with like discussion of what
• 21:50
  happens in the game and stuff like that
• 21:51
  and it's difficult to just go
• 21:52
  >> wait a second I want I want to highlight
• 21:53
  what you just said right Because what
• 21:55
  you're introducing is a more holistic
• 21:56
  analysis of the character design that
• 21:59
  doesn't start and end at whether or not
• 22:01
  you like it in a trailer and a
• 22:03
  screenshot. What you're describing is
• 22:05
  what is the video game trying to
• 22:06
  achieve? What does this open us up to?
• 22:08
  The fact that we are pursuing this kind
• 22:10
  of character design means that we can
• 22:13
  maybe shoot for something that we did
• 22:14
  not shoot for in past Star Fox games.
• 22:17
  Abram, as a as a as an e a relative
• 22:19
  expert of the Star Fox franchise, would
• 22:22
  you say that something like that is
• 22:24
  maybe at play with this game?
• 22:27
  >> Yeah, I mean, I certainly think so. And
• 22:28
  I mean, to be clear, I think it's kind
• 22:30
  of fun seeing everybody on my feed be
• 22:32
  like, "Oh, I think these guys are really
• 22:34
  gross." Like, I think that's kind of
• 22:35
  neat. I think
• 22:36
  >> there's a less interesting version of
• 22:38
  this game where the characters are very
• 22:39
  agreeable. So, I think it is just as a
• 22:42
  as a fun point of discussion. I think
• 22:44
  that's kind of cute. But I think that to
• 22:46
  me it doesn't hold the same meaning as
• 22:47
  what you guys are talking about because
• 22:49
  you know something I've been thinking a
• 22:52
  lot about is I think that there is an
• 22:54
  argument that around the DS game Star
• 22:57
  Fox Command Star Fox was thought about
• 22:59
  in a particular way aesthetically and
• 23:01
  those characters became very cute and
• 23:02
  that continued on through Star Fox 64 3D
• 23:05
  and to a lesser but I think contiguous
• 23:08
  sense zero as well. This game is
• 23:11
  actually a little bit closer to like
• 23:13
  what the original Star Fox 64 was trying
• 23:15
  to look like and what Assault was trying
• 23:17
  to look like. And I think that there is
• 23:19
  something fun to wondering about what
• 23:22
  that continuity might mean and wondering
• 23:25
  about how this series is being kind of
• 23:27
  reclaimed and maybe who's working on
• 23:29
  this. Is this an indication that perhaps
• 23:30
  some people from Namco who made Star Fox
• 23:33
  Assault worked on this game? I still
• 23:36
  think that this conversation around
• 23:37
  character design and art direction is
• 23:40
  still a little bit of a dead end at this
• 23:41
  point just in so far as we don't have
• 23:42
  the game in front of us. But I think
• 23:44
  what we can at least do is speculate
• 23:46
  about it in a more interesting way. What
• 23:48
  questions can we open up on the basis of
• 23:51
  what the characters look like rather
• 23:53
  than just saying, "Oh, they're kind of
• 23:54
  yucky." and be done with it. Even what
• 23:56
  you said right there about the charact
• 23:58
  about Star Fox 64 like pursuing that
• 24:01
  kind of realistic look that they wanted
• 24:02
  in Star Fox 64. I found that take
• 24:04
  extremely disagreeable.
• 24:06
  >> I found you said something that I
• 24:08
  normally never experience when it's just
• 24:09
  me and Peter on the podcast where you
• 24:11
  said something and I and I went no no no
• 24:13
  because because what you're you're
• 24:15
  describing is like this there's like
• 24:18
  there's like one piece of art where the
• 24:20
  characters are like real. Oh, is it
• 24:23
  where they all look like haggarded and
• 24:24
  they're like their eyes are like they
• 24:26
  look like taxiderermy or whatever. Yeah.
• 24:28
  No, please clarify your but that's not
• 24:30
  even because there because this is
• 24:32
  another thing that I think is happening.
• 24:33
  There's a lot of identification of
• 24:35
  people saying these creatures look
• 24:39
  >> in the ballpark of the promotional art
• 24:41
  for the SNES game where they are puppets
• 24:43
  and they are re real like really
• 24:46
  offputting them.
• 24:47
  >> Yeah. What what I'm talking about more
• 24:49
  is that I think that there's an argument
• 24:50
  that in Star Fox 64 the original. That
• 24:54
  game is not necessarily going for what
• 24:57
  Star Fox 6 64 3D
• 25:01
  attempted. I think that there's an
• 25:03
  argument that that game with its
• 25:04
  realistic laser burns on the ground and
• 25:06
  these big bugeyed characters and this
• 25:09
  more um muted color palette is striking
• 25:14
  at something closer to to what 64 or not
• 25:17
  64 2026 is striking at and assault was
• 25:20
  doing that similar. Peppy hair looks
• 25:22
  real freaky in Star Fox Assault and I
• 25:24
  think that a lot of people just haven't
• 25:25
  played that game and don't quite realize
• 25:26
  it. So what I'm talking about more is
• 25:28
  that there is a continuity in something
• 25:30
  that's more difficult to grasp the play
• 25:33
  experience of 64 OG and Assault. And I
• 25:37
  think that there is something I'm
• 25:38
  identifying from playing those games
• 25:39
  that continues forwards to this game as
• 25:41
  well. It's less about the promotional
• 25:44
  material which is where a lot of people
• 25:45
  are taking it which again to me signals
• 25:47
  that a lot of people haven't played
• 25:48
  these games. Now I'm not trying to make
• 25:50
  this a gatekeeping point when with a lot
• 25:53
  of this stuff. I think it goes back to
• 25:54
  Nintendo not making the sacred texts
• 25:56
  available. I think that if more people
• 25:58
  could have played Star Fox Assault by
• 26:00
  now, I really do think that the the
• 26:01
  tenor of the conversation around the
• 26:03
  look of this game would be slightly
• 26:04
  different. Not entirely different, but
• 26:06
  meaningfully different. And I think that
• 26:08
  requires going back to those sacred
• 26:10
  texts and putting a little effort there
• 26:12
  to to say, "What have I experienced in
• 26:15
  the past and what does that make me
• 26:16
  think about what I'm seeing in front of
• 26:17
  me?" That's something I'm always trying
• 26:18
  to do with my Nintendo commentary. Do
• 26:20
  you also think that um the fact that
• 26:23
  Nintendo is like this huge multimedia
• 26:26
  sort of corporation like plays a factor
• 26:28
  in this as well? Because you know like
• 26:30
  so many people were talking about Star
• 26:31
  Fox in the movie, right? And like oh he
• 26:33
  looks like this in the movie. Why does
• 26:34
  he look like this in the game or people
• 26:37
  like you know we're talking about um
• 26:39
  that like little bit where it's like the
• 26:42
  cuts to being like an anime, you know
• 26:44
  what I mean? Like this like '9s like
• 26:45
  anime style and they're like we could
• 26:46
  have had this instead. And for me it's
• 26:49
  it's the same thing where I'm like yeah
• 26:50
  that's the movie though and like you
• 26:52
  know there is a in my opinion like
• 26:54
  pretty hard line between those sorts of
• 26:56
  things. But so I guess my question is
• 26:58
  like do you think that like the fact
• 27:00
  that Nintendo is dipping its sort of
• 27:02
  toes in all of these different like
• 27:04
  avenues is in like impacting the way
• 27:07
  that people are talking about the actual
• 27:09
  games. I do and I think that this is
• 27:11
  again why this conversation I think is
• 27:14
  still interesting to have because it
• 27:15
  goes back to I think a reformulation of
• 27:18
  our relationship to Nintendo is they
• 27:20
  become this company that is interested
• 27:22
  in pursuits outside of games in a really
• 27:24
  significant way.
• 27:26
  >> And again, this is going to indicate the
• 27:28
  type of Nintendo fan I am. But if you
• 27:30
  really read into the ASA developer
• 27:33
  columns about these Nintendo games,
• 27:34
  you'll hear Nintendo talk very openly
• 27:36
  about how they gave that revised Donkey
• 27:39
  Kong design to Illumination for the
• 27:40
  movie because they were cooking up
• 27:42
  something new for the games.
• 27:43
  >> So, I think that there's a lot of
• 27:45
  discussion within the hardcore
• 27:46
  communities about how are these things
• 27:48
  interrelated and we don't yet have a
• 27:52
  very clear-cut answer. And I think
• 27:54
  because of that that that lack of
• 27:57
  clarity about what we should expect to
• 27:58
  travel between the two people had this
• 28:02
  two-month period of time, maybe it
• 28:04
  wasn't quite that long, where where they
• 28:05
  were saying, "We know that there's a
• 28:06
  Star Fox game coming. We know that Star
• 28:08
  Fox looks like this in the movie. A and
• 28:10
  B takes us to see the Star Fox game will
• 28:12
  look like this." And so I think that
• 28:14
  there was this expectation that we built
• 28:17
  as a community that they were going to
• 28:18
  use the movie designs because Miyamoto
• 28:21
  even says in that direct, hey, Star Fox
• 28:24
  is in that movie because that was a
• 28:25
  specific bit of synergistic promo
• 28:27
  between the games in the film.
• 28:29
  >> So there is a relationship there, but
• 28:31
  it's not yet defined what that
• 28:32
  relationship is.
• 28:33
  >> You know what's so funny? Oh, sorry. No,
• 28:34
  please. Please. just is is there a I I
• 28:36
  just get the sense hearing you describe
• 28:38
  this that there is such a sense of
• 28:40
  Nintendo fans being dogs chasing cars
• 28:44
  and it is this thing where it's like
• 28:45
  what is the relationship between
• 28:47
  Nintendo and these multimedia properties
• 28:49
  and the movies and all this other stuff
• 28:51
  what is driving Nintendo decisionm
• 28:54
  whatever answer we find whatever the
• 28:56
  answer is I could go out have brunch
• 29:00
  with Miiamoto today he could tell me
• 29:02
  every single secret what went into every
• 29:04
  single decision-m I guess I just don't
• 29:07
  believe that it is that interesting
• 29:12
  important or even uh functionally
• 29:15
  stable. I think that the answer is
• 29:18
  probably um a mix of things like what
• 29:21
  informed Donkey Kong's design in the
• 29:23
  movie is probably completely different
• 29:24
  from what informed Fox's design in the
• 29:27
  movie. And and I guess I just wonder
• 29:29
  like so we like the the the pursuit of
• 29:33
  these questions to me feels like a
• 29:35
  trick. It feels like it feels like
• 29:38
  something made up for the sake of
• 29:40
  content
• 29:40
  >> especially because like uh these sorts
• 29:44
  of companies and Nintendo specifically
• 29:46
  like contradict themselves, right? Like
• 29:48
  all the time. So, cuz what was it like
• 29:50
  after the Mario movie came out, there
• 29:52
  was the like news about like, oh, like
• 29:54
  we didn't even ask like Illumination
• 29:57
  wanted to put Star Fox in here. Like we
• 29:59
  didn't we didn't care, right? Didn't
• 30:00
  they say that?
• 30:01
  >> Do you believe that? Do you even believe
• 30:02
  that to begin with?
• 30:03
  >> Because then because either I don't
• 30:06
  believe it either.
• 30:06
  >> In the direct you have them saying like,
• 30:08
  "Oh, we wanted this to be a synergistic
• 30:09
  thing." Right? And so it's it's this
• 30:11
  thing where it's like we all know that
• 30:12
  that anytime people are talking about
• 30:14
  like the motivations for a lot of these
• 30:15
  things, it is often times just fully
• 30:17
  untrue. So then to your point, Jake,
• 30:19
  because I'm on the same page where I'm
• 30:20
  like, then why even why even chase it?
• 30:23
  Because it if it doesn't matter and if
• 30:24
  we're going to get the wrong answer or
• 30:25
  an answer that is like specifically
• 30:27
  meant to make you think a certain thing
• 30:28
  or to to keep information away from you,
• 30:31
  right? Cuz at that point, the Star Fox
• 30:33
  game wasn't announced when they were
• 30:34
  like, "Yeah, Illumination wanted to do
• 30:35
  Star Fox. We didn't we didn't want
• 30:37
  anything to do with this, right?" Like
• 30:40
  it it's all so fruitless. So I'm just
• 30:41
  like, "Why why even chase it, you know?"
• 30:44
  >> Yeah. I got a take about the movie, the
• 30:46
  Galaxy movie that I think
• 30:49
  lay it on us.
• 30:51
  >> That was like a Nintendo direct
• 30:53
  basically. That's sort of my take on
• 30:54
  that movie.
• 30:55
  >> Great take. That's That was the direct
• 30:57
  that everyone was waiting for. That is a
• 30:59
  great take. Oh my god.
• 31:01
  >> Because did it not soft announce Star
• 31:02
  Fox? And is it not probably soft
• 31:05
  announcing another Mario Maker game?
• 31:07
  Like
• 31:07
  >> that's funny.
• 31:09
  >> Wow.
• 31:10
  >> Think about it. I think that there is a
• 31:12
  there is a degree to which these
• 31:15
  conversations are trying to put together
• 31:18
  that big like like pin and string map of
• 31:22
  what Nintendo might be doing. I think
• 31:24
  it's all in service of answering the
• 31:26
  question again, what game am I going to
• 31:28
  be playing in 5 months?
• 31:30
  >> And and so
• 31:32
  >> it it certainly is fruitless to a
• 31:34
  degree, but I think that we got to ask
• 31:36
  ourselves, well, if if it is, then why
• 31:38
  are we doing it? And I think it largely
• 31:40
  is because we want to know what Nintendo
• 31:42
  games we're playing. And then that
• 31:43
  returns me again to my conversation of
• 31:46
  uh well, can't we find other things to
• 31:48
  talk about
• 31:49
  >> in the meantime? Sure. And and I think
• 31:52
  the that that hyperfocus on what game
• 31:56
  what Nintendo game am I going to be
• 31:58
  playing has transformed into for some
• 32:01
  people this almost toxic relationship
• 32:04
  with leakers where that moment through
• 32:07
  which that they learn what game they're
• 32:10
  going to be playing is so important that
• 32:13
  if somebody like a Nate the Hate were to
• 32:15
  leak that announcement in advance
• 32:17
  something has been robbed of them. the
• 32:19
  kind of we have given into the
• 32:21
  celebratory nature of the Nintendo
• 32:23
  Direct and now the leaker has stolen
• 32:26
  that from us. This this moment that was
• 32:28
  just as much a part of the games as
• 32:31
  playing them has now been taken and I'
• 32:33
  and I've seen this sentiment expressed
• 32:34
  across the internet where it's like how
• 32:37
  dare Nate the Hate spoil me a Nintendo
• 32:39
  fan. I can't avoid him making the
• 32:42
  headlines like this because everybody
• 32:44
  gloms onto it. It is. We're all aware it
• 32:46
  has kind of created a cottage industry
• 32:48
  of of content creation where Nate the
• 32:50
  Hate leaks something and the the the
• 32:53
  cavalry just shows up out of nowhere.
• 32:56
  Every single video in your YouTube
• 32:57
  recommended feed is a is a couple of
• 32:59
  podcasters going, "What do you think of
• 33:01
  the latest Nate the Hate leaks? Well, I
• 33:03
  think they sound pretty good. I don't
• 33:05
  know about that Star Fox." And then
• 33:06
  that's this is an unavoidable
• 33:08
  conversation. So, is there Peter? I feel
• 33:11
  like you have something to say about
• 33:11
  this. What is the what are what are your
• 33:13
  feelings on this person who feels like
• 33:15
  the the leaks have robbed me?
• 33:17
  >> Well, I I this is something we've talked
• 33:18
  about before, too, right? About the idea
• 33:20
  of like uh where priorities in gaming
• 33:23
  culture sort of land and
• 33:27
  the excitement of watching a Nintendo
• 33:30
  Direct is a part of playing the games,
• 33:34
  right? because it's like what we're
• 33:35
  saying it is uh all of this hype like
• 33:38
  built up for these moments when we get
• 33:39
  to finally know what Nintendo is working
• 33:40
  on, what games we're going to be playing
• 33:41
  later this year or next year or
• 33:43
  whatever. And it's like to quote unquote
• 33:45
  like rob someone of that is almost like
• 33:48
  in the eyes of a lot of people. I think
• 33:50
  spoiling the end of a game because it's
• 33:53
  like just another part of what gaming
• 33:56
  culture is all about in this current era
• 33:58
  of it. And I I personally find it kind
• 34:00
  of exhausting because like as you know
• 34:02
  like we all make gaming content to a
• 34:05
  certain degree and it's like what people
• 34:07
  consider a spoiler at this point is
• 34:10
  absolutely ludicrous to me where it's
• 34:12
  like you can't talk about the premise of
• 34:13
  a game, right, without people in the
• 34:14
  comments saying anything. So I
• 34:15
  personally I just put up spoiler
• 34:16
  warnings on pretty much anything that
• 34:18
  I'm making content about because it's
• 34:20
  like, "Hey, you clicked on a video about
• 34:21
  Resident Evil. Guess what y'all? I'm
• 34:23
  talking about Resident Evil." You know?
• 34:25
  Um, but even further than that, now it's
• 34:28
  like, okay, well, talking about the fact
• 34:29
  that some of these games even exist at
• 34:31
  all. You know, Nate the hate says, "Hey,
• 34:33
  Star Fox 6 or, you know, Star Fox games
• 34:35
  coming out later this year or whatever."
• 34:37
  That's the headline. People are like,
• 34:38
  "Okay, yeah, great. Thanks for spoiling
• 34:40
  this." It's like, "Okay, cool. What are
• 34:41
  we even supposed to do about it?"
• 34:44
  >> I personally agree.
• 34:46
  I have said many times that Nintendo
• 34:49
  could just email me a list of games with
• 34:51
  a little write up about what each is and
• 34:53
  when they're coming out and I'd be
• 34:54
  perfectly happy. To me, the Nintendo
• 34:56
  Direct is really just a vehicle to get
• 34:59
  information and and Peter, I'm very much
• 35:01
  with you. I really don't care if if Nate
• 35:04
  the Hate spoils it. Back in 2023, 2024,
• 35:07
  there was this guy Porro who
• 35:10
  >> How could we all know Porro? They're a
• 35:12
  sweet little bird.
• 35:14
  >> You don't know the leaker Porro? based
• 35:16
  on the character from the Warriorware
• 35:18
  mini game. Birds and beans.
• 35:19
  >> Birds and beans. He has a he has a long
• 35:21
  tongue and he grabs beans.
• 35:22
  >> That's fun. Birds and beans.
• 35:24
  >> That's one. That's an oldtimer. I love
• 35:26
  Porro. Yeah.
• 35:27
  >> Warriio where he's like a little
• 35:30
  >> Por of course. Porro.
• 35:31
  >> Yes. Porro. Porro. Please. Abram.
• 35:33
  Continue. So Porro had some kind of very
• 35:37
  intimate access to a Nintendo website or
• 35:39
  YouTube channel or eShop back end
• 35:41
  because a couple days before a direct
• 35:43
  when after the direct all these
• 35:44
  pre-order pages for Nintendo games would
• 35:46
  pop up.
• 35:47
  >> He was saying exactly this game, that
• 35:50
  game, and this game are going to get
• 35:51
  announced. And this caused real
• 35:54
  consternation in the Nintendo community
• 35:56
  because it basically diffused the
• 35:59
  excitement around DirectX 72 hours
• 36:02
  before that happened. And Nate the Hate
• 36:04
  now has said something similar whereby
• 36:06
  he's not only leaked Star Fox, but
• 36:08
  because that ended up being true, now
• 36:10
  his awkward in a time thing is likely
• 36:12
  true. And now people feel like the whole
• 36:14
  year has been spoiled for them.
• 36:16
  >> Again, personally, I don't care. When
• 36:18
  Pro tweeted out, "Fans of uh this
• 36:21
  particular mat lab function will really
• 36:23
  want to see the next antenna direct."
• 36:24
  And I went, "F0." I was so happy. And I
• 36:27
  was just as happy with that cryptic
• 36:29
  bizarre post as I would have been seeing
• 36:31
  it in the direct. Yeah,
• 36:33
  >> but I also think it's useful to approach
• 36:36
  Nintendo Directs from the from the
• 36:38
  perspective of what they offer the
• 36:39
  community in a positive way. We've
• 36:41
  talked a lot about what I what the way
• 36:43
  that I think they're delterious and the
• 36:44
  type of conversation we have, but
• 36:46
  there's also a lot of fun rituals around
• 36:48
  them. Be it making your Nintendo Direct
• 36:50
  bingo board, be it watching it with your
• 36:52
  friends, checking out all the big fun
• 36:54
  reactions people had. I I don't view
• 36:57
  those parts of the Nintendo Direct
• 36:58
  culture with that much cynicism. I think
• 37:01
  those are fun for the community. And so
• 37:03
  I understand why a lot of people say,
• 37:05
  "Hey, well, imagine if I didn't know
• 37:07
  that there was anything Star Fox coming
• 37:09
  and then this direct pops up out of
• 37:10
  nowhere or when a Nintendo Direct in
• 37:12
  June ends on Awaren Time." And people
• 37:14
  are like, "Well, imagine if I didn't
• 37:16
  know Aaran Time remake was coming." My
• 37:18
  counterpoint to these people is that
• 37:20
  you're missing the point here. The point
• 37:22
  is that you're going to get to play a
• 37:23
  new Star Fox game and a remake Ocarina
• 37:25
  of Time.
• 37:26
  >> Yeah.
• 37:26
  >> To me, that's the point. But I app I
• 37:28
  understand why people feel this way.
• 37:31
  >> Sure. I think it's also maybe there's I
• 37:34
  don't know not to this this might be a
• 37:36
  little too harsh of me, but I think that
• 37:37
  there's maybe just a point of maturity
• 37:39
  here because the the fact of the matter
• 37:41
  is is that you telling me that a new
• 37:43
  Star Fox game is coming and then me
• 37:45
  seeing a new Star Fox game are two
• 37:46
  wildly different experiences. Like I I
• 37:50
  can't when I hear that a new Star Fox
• 37:53
  game is coming, I have nothing else to
• 37:55
  say. I have nothing to freaking Nate the
• 37:58
  Hate couldn't even tell us it was a
• 37:59
  goddamn remake. Like come on, brother.
• 38:02
  Get on it. So, and I guess I something
• 38:04
  that I I just want to make clear is that
• 38:06
  like it's um I don't think it is robbing
• 38:10
  you of an experience as much as it is
• 38:12
  giving you a different one.
• 38:14
  >> Yeah.
• 38:15
  >> And I think that the experience of
• 38:16
  seeing the game is still an experience
• 38:18
  unto itself that is fun. And I agree
• 38:20
  with you, Abram. I I like all of those
• 38:22
  kind of fan rituals surrounding the
• 38:23
  Nintendo Direct. And I and I do think
• 38:24
  that those things are fun. Even the even
• 38:26
  the much derided uh review of the
• 38:30
  presentation, which I which I don't
• 38:32
  particularly
• 38:32
  >> I'm not a fan of that.
• 38:33
  >> I don't know. I don't Yeah. Yeah. But I
• 38:35
  I guess I just want to put this out here
• 38:37
  because I think that I might be one of
• 38:38
  the few people who feels this way or at
• 38:40
  least is brave enough to say so.
• 38:42
  >> Oh my gosh.
• 38:43
  >> I have no love in my heart for
• 38:46
  the content that like Nate the Hate
• 38:48
  produces. I find it to be largely uh
• 38:52
  embarrassing to be completely honest
• 38:54
  with our audience. I think that it is
• 38:56
  the result of um just like it's it's
• 39:00
  kind of like the natural result of clout
• 39:02
  chasing. I find that the content itself,
• 39:05
  the perspective, the the creative
• 39:07
  decision-m around it is not
• 39:09
  transformative or particularly
• 39:10
  interesting. I think that it is maybe a
• 39:12
  red flag for any creator who maybe the
• 39:15
  only driver of attention that you have
• 39:18
  is uh the abuse of professional
• 39:22
  relationships that you are allowed to
• 39:24
  uphold. Uh I think that that is all not
• 39:27
  good and maybe something that in my
• 39:30
  perfect world an audience would outright
• 39:33
  reject. Now once once you you know
• 39:37
  because there is a there's a long
• 39:39
  history of kind of like leaks and
• 39:41
  sources in journalism that has a very
• 39:44
  very particular purpose that is done
• 39:47
  with kind of a bent towards justice
• 39:49
  seeking. Well, dude, no. This is this is
• 39:51
  the thing, right? Where it's it's like
• 39:53
  uh two this is the ex like this is so
• 39:55
  like spot on where it's like no no no
• 39:56
  like
• 39:57
  >> these have almost become bits of
• 39:59
  marketing in themselves, right? And then
• 40:01
  also, you know, uh Nintendo tweets again
• 40:05
  at like 4:30 on a Friday afternoon at my
• 40:07
  time saying like, "Hey, in 15 minutes,
• 40:10
  Star Fox Direct." And a lot of people
• 40:11
  are saying like, "Oh, this is directly
• 40:12
  responding to like the Nate the Hate
• 40:15
  leak, whatever." And whether that's true
• 40:16
  or not, I guess we'll never know. But at
• 40:18
  the end of the day, who cares it, right?
• 40:20
  But there's this part part of it though
• 40:22
  too where I'm kind of like
• 40:24
  >> that is also a marketing beat kind of
• 40:26
  right and it's not this information
• 40:28
  isn't being revealed so that it is you
• 40:30
  know what we've talked about in the past
• 40:32
  on this show um the real like go
• 40:35
  ultimate goal of like journalism which
• 40:36
  is like counter to corporate interests
• 40:38
  and things like that. It is uh a goal of
• 40:42
  almost like fandom journalism, right?
• 40:44
  Enthusiast press as opposed to like
• 40:46
  actually wanting to dissect like what
• 40:47
  these companies are are doing because
• 40:49
  you know to your point like I I am not a
• 40:52
  because he has what a YouTube channel
• 40:54
  Nate the hate I've not like watched a
• 40:56
  lot of his content because I am only
• 40:58
  really interested in it so much as being
• 41:00
  like oh okay this thing is happening
• 41:02
  headlines.
• 41:02
  >> Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 41:04
  But I just think in this world if if we
• 41:06
  accept that there is this kind of um
• 41:10
  Nintendo conversation rewards proximity
• 41:12
  to information, I find that kind of like
• 41:15
  the the way in which Nate the Hates
• 41:18
  leaking surfaces for us to be
• 41:21
  functionally similar to when like a
• 41:23
  games media person hops on Blue Sky to
• 41:25
  go, I'm enjoying a really cool game
• 41:27
  right now, but I can't talk about it. or
• 41:30
  hm, I wonder if this game I know about
• 41:31
  is going to appear in this presentation
• 41:33
  tomorrow. To me, it's the same thing.
• 41:34
  They're chasing the exact same thing.
• 41:36
  And it is it is like a posture in the
• 41:38
  community. It is a stance. It is the
• 41:40
  that they want to be somebody. It's not
• 41:42
  about the games. It's not about the
• 41:43
  leagues
• 41:43
  >> because it just it just like illustrates
• 41:44
  everyone and and like, you know, poses
• 41:47
  as this way of like, oh, this guy's like
• 41:49
  someone that we should follow because he
• 41:50
  knows stuff or, you know, whatever. And
• 41:52
  it's like whether you do or not, like
• 41:55
  it's unimportant if all you care about
• 41:57
  is making people think that you know
• 41:59
  stuff.
• 42:00
  >> Yeah.
• 42:01
  >> Nate the hate to me is kind of like a
• 42:02
  switchboard. He's he's like one of the
• 42:04
  people that operates the the switchboard
• 42:06
  and it's like you're got to connect me.
• 42:07
  You're connecting me to this piece of
• 42:08
  information I want.
• 42:09
  >> And and I and I got to be honest, like
• 42:11
  I've got no real feelings about Nate the
• 42:13
  Hate one way or the other. But I also um
• 42:18
  am really big into rap and there's a lot
• 42:21
  of lot of rappers who uh largely operate
• 42:26
  on the basis of mystery.
• 42:29
  >> Guy like Playboy Cardi, he's not saying
• 42:31
  anything. He he like said happy Mother's
• 42:33
  Day on on on a Tik Tok interview the
• 42:35
  other day. It's the first time I heard
• 42:36
  his voice in like three years. And the
• 42:39
  way that information travels in circles
• 42:42
  like that is that you got these guys who
• 42:44
  know who are making this thing you want
• 42:46
  so bad and they're saying nothing to you
• 42:48
  or they're popping out at random times
• 42:50
  to to to give you the information. So
• 42:52
  then you become reliant on these
• 42:54
  intermediaries who are in their camp or
• 42:57
  who have access to Spotify back end and
• 43:00
  they start giving us information and you
• 43:02
  start to become reliant on them because
• 43:04
  you're not getting that communication
• 43:05
  you're looking for from that artist. And
• 43:08
  I think a step you got to take is you
• 43:10
  have to graduate from that and say well
• 43:12
  look I'm just going to enjoy what I
• 43:14
  have. I'm gonna make meaning out of what
• 43:15
  I have. And when that guy pops up with a
• 43:18
  whole album on Spotify one day and
• 43:21
  there's a big billboard in Times Square,
• 43:23
  I'm gonna get hyped. And until then, I
• 43:24
  got to figure out something else to do
• 43:26
  with my time
• 43:27
  >> because
• 43:27
  >> just But it's but it's all in service of
• 43:30
  nothing. Like I guess the the difference
• 43:32
  for me with the Playboy Cardi comparison
• 43:35
  is that this information is not coming
• 43:37
  from Nate the Hate. Nate the Hate is not
• 43:39
  the leaker.
• 43:40
  >> He is not the source.
• 43:42
  >> He is the mouthpiece.
• 43:43
  >> Yeah. And that's and that's my problem
• 43:45
  is that I think that it is somebody
• 43:47
  whether or not they consented to it
• 43:49
  exploiting professional relationships
• 43:51
  that could have serious ramifications
• 43:52
  for these people for the sake of
• 43:55
  upholding one's presence on social
• 43:57
  media. And I think that when you when
• 43:59
  your entire when your livelihood and
• 44:01
  your entire online posture is in
• 44:05
  relation to a brand that we all profess
• 44:08
  to enjoy and to love. It is really weird
• 44:11
  to me that also your online posture is
• 44:15
  intensely related to exploiting
• 44:17
  connections to that brand. I just I just
• 44:20
  think it's weird. I don't think you can
• 44:21
  have your cake and eat it too. I I think
• 44:22
  that this this these relationships,
• 44:24
  especially when not just when they come
• 44:26
  from content creators, but when they
• 44:27
  come from like um media people
• 44:29
  themselves, I I find to be like
• 44:32
  debaucherous and messy in a way that
• 44:34
  goes largely unexamined. I I agree
• 44:36
  because I think that like there is the
• 44:38
  idea of like okay well if you want to be
• 44:39
  an influencer whatever content creator
• 44:41
  whatever you want to call it like uh the
• 44:44
  entire like crux of that is trying to
• 44:47
  gain clout right I understand that
• 44:49
  that's like a super like reductive way
• 44:51
  to expose it right but like that that is
• 44:54
  what it is right I mean when I make a
• 44:55
  YouTube video my goal is for people to
• 44:57
  watch it and it's for people to
• 44:59
  subscribe to me that's what it is um but
• 45:01
  as soon as it comes to like hey I'm like
• 45:02
  a journalist whatever I'm just tweeting
• 45:04
  like yeah
• 45:05
  really really big thing coming in this
• 45:08
  in this you know Nintendo Direct or
• 45:10
  State of Play or whatever. It's and it's
• 45:12
  just it's literally just for this sort
• 45:14
  of weird perceived like posture of clout
• 45:16
  and whatever that kind of rubs me the
• 45:18
  wrong way.
• 45:18
  >> I guess I just come at it from the other
• 45:20
  perspective of like we're giving it to
• 45:21
  them.
• 45:22
  >> We're we're letting it happen. And this
• 45:25
  is part of my problem and the part of
• 45:26
  why I make the comparison to music is
• 45:28
  like we don't have to indulge these
• 45:29
  people.
• 45:30
  >> Yeah. And and and and I think that like
• 45:33
  when somebody posts on my blue sky like,
• 45:35
  "Oh, you know, you're going to want to
• 45:36
  tune in to Summer GameFest tomorrow." My
• 45:38
  thinking is like, "Well, I was going to
• 45:39
  anyway and you're never even going to
• 45:41
  really tell me what you heard about, so
• 45:42
  like I don't really care."
• 45:43
  >> And so when it comes to someone like
• 45:45
  Nate the Hate, I'm like, "Well,
• 45:46
  >> you have this position because as soon
• 45:50
  as you make a tweet, my Nintendo News is
• 45:53
  writing up an article about it."
• 45:54
  >> Yeah.
• 45:55
  >> And three content creators, I held up
• 45:56
  four fingers. Okay. four content
• 45:58
  creators are making videos about about
• 46:00
  you. And I just think that we need to
• 46:03
  push the boat out a little further. We
• 46:06
  need to be out rowing in the ocean where
• 46:08
  we can't even hear Nate the Hate yelling
• 46:10
  from the shore. It's a Star Fox
• 46:12
  announcement soon because I just don't
• 46:15
  agree with the perspective that this is
• 46:18
  what we must concern ourselves with. I
• 46:20
  just think that there's we're in a
• 46:22
  period
• 46:23
  >> where we are suffering from success as
• 46:25
  Nintendo fans. There are so many games.
• 46:27
  There's so much
• 46:28
  >> because it will never not be news. If he
• 46:30
  says it, we cannot cultivate an audience
• 46:32
  that is not going to make this news cuz
• 46:34
  it is news. It's huge news. My thing is
• 46:36
  this.
• 46:37
  >> Yeah,
• 46:37
  >> it should be news. 100%. We should also
• 46:41
  view it as extremely embarrassing. Not
• 46:44
  that. No more. No more of this. Nate was
• 46:48
  right. Nate got him. Always trust Nate.
• 46:50
  Oh, put my faith in Nate. I don't want
• 46:52
  to see that under this. Oh, all these
• 46:54
  Nintendo's responding to Nate, we're
• 46:56
  just like throwing ourselves at this at
• 46:58
  this, you know, I I don't I don't know.
• 47:00
  That's that's the part to me that I
• 47:02
  think is and then then another thing
• 47:03
  that's a little silly, the next time
• 47:05
  Nate the Hate leaks something and you
• 47:06
  games media person are at a website and
• 47:08
  you go, we can corroborate what Nate the
• 47:10
  Hate is saying, shut off a bridge.
• 47:14
  I don't care. But is that not adding
• 47:17
  legitimacy to the reporting? put to the
• 47:19
  side the historical history of leaks as
• 47:21
  something actually functionally
• 47:23
  meaningful and just take them as what
• 47:24
  they are right now.
• 47:25
  >> I can't believe them at this point. I
• 47:27
  can't believe them. That's my That's my
• 47:28
  problem. I don't believe them. Yeah. I
• 47:30
  Yeah,
• 47:31
  >> because I I I am in the same the same
• 47:33
  boat too because it's like um I am just
• 47:36
  curious who is corroborating these
• 47:38
  things, right? And and to what we were
• 47:39
  talking about before like hey uh
• 47:41
  anonymous sources in journalism are
• 47:43
  important for things uh but when it is
• 47:46
  like just random like early game
• 47:48
  announcements and stuff I
• 47:49
  >> that's thank you Peter. It is not
• 47:51
  important that we corroborate stupid
• 47:54
  meaningless rumors like this like and if
• 47:57
  that's and if that's listen if you
• 47:58
  decide that that's important to you in
• 47:59
  your reporting God bless you. But I
• 48:02
  don't know if I need corroboration for
• 48:04
  Nate the Hate's fifth hit in a row.
• 48:06
  >> Yeah. No. No. Exactly. Because it's it's
• 48:08
  like the corroboration of information is
• 48:10
  like hey there's this like big scandal
• 48:12
  going on internally in this company and
• 48:13
  like we're trying to figure out what's
• 48:14
  going on because obviously the company
• 48:15
  is going to be very tight lipped that
• 48:17
  like to me that's like important
• 48:18
  journalism stuff but just yeah just like
• 48:19
  hey we can corroborate that yes there is
• 48:21
  a a remake of this game coming out like
• 48:23
  >> we have an we have an additional source
• 48:25
  on the line confirming to us that after
• 48:27
  Star Fox's appearance in the Mario
• 48:28
  Galaxy movie he will be appearing in a
• 48:30
  video game. We have no details on that
• 48:32
  video game. Absolutely none. Funny. I'm
• 48:34
  hearing funny. I'm hearing FUNNY.
• 48:35
  EVERYBODY FUNNY. RUN IT. RUN ANOTHER
• 48:37
  ARTICLE. THAT'S WHAT IT THAT'S WHAT it
• 48:38
  feels like to me. It's breathless. It's
• 48:40
  exhausting. Yeah.
• 48:42
  >> Here's the difference I would make.
• 48:43
  >> Sure.
• 48:44
  >> The the Nate to hate stuff is ob
• 48:45
  obuscated by the fact that this guy
• 48:47
  clearly just knows everything.
• 48:49
  >> Sure.
• 48:50
  There's a the problem the problem that I
• 48:53
  have is not necessarily with Nate the
• 48:55
  Hate, but it is with all of these other
• 48:57
  people out in the world in who in
• 49:00
  Nintendo leaking land who have hit rates
• 49:04
  of 30%. Or lower. And these people are
• 49:07
  getting news stories written about them.
• 49:09
  And I've seen I I promise you I've seen
• 49:12
  this. I'm not trying to put anyone on
• 49:13
  blast, but they I've seen news stories
• 49:14
  that go,
• 49:16
  >> "Well, this person doesn't have a very
• 49:17
  great track record, but they said that
• 49:20
  headline travels wicked far." So, when a
• 49:25
  place like VGC comes out and says, "Hey,
• 49:26
  we heard about Star Fox as well." To me,
• 49:28
  I'm like, "Okay, well, at least we're
• 49:30
  reporting on leaks in the framework, to
• 49:31
  your point, Jake, that this is news."
• 49:33
  >> We're not we're not just saying, "Hey,
• 49:35
  this person said something and promoting
• 49:37
  their, you know, their their scoop with
• 49:40
  nothing behind it." I take much more
• 49:42
  issue with all of these uh accounts that
• 49:45
  start propping up ridiculous rumors
• 49:47
  because somebody on family board said
• 49:49
  something and and I just think that
• 49:51
  there that
• 49:53
  >> Yeah. I don't know. I just think that we
• 49:55
  h if we're going to participate in this
• 49:57
  leaker culture, the least we can do is
• 49:58
  try to
• 49:59
  >> have standards.
• 50:00
  >> Try to have standards. I guess
• 50:01
  >> I I do think that's fair because I think
• 50:03
  that that it is important to uh you know
• 50:06
  point out the difference between someone
• 50:08
  who does have a you know credible
• 50:10
  history versus someone who is just you
• 50:12
  know saying whatever they want because
• 50:14
  at the end of the day we can all just do
• 50:15
  that right it reminds me a little bit
• 50:17
  too of like uh anytime anyone wants to
• 50:19
  talk to me about like set photos from a
• 50:21
  movie you know what I mean like I don't
• 50:23
  know if you saw like the there were like
• 50:25
  set photos from the Elden Ring movie and
• 50:27
  everyone's like wow it's really well lit
• 50:29
  that doesn't look like Elden Ring at And
• 50:30
  it's just like, yeah, cuz it's like an
• 50:32
  iPhone photo of like a thing that is not
• 50:35
  like it's in production, you know, like
• 50:37
  absolutely no idea what they're going to
• 50:38
  do with this. Um, and it's it's just
• 50:40
  silly cuz it's like, yeah, I don't I
• 50:42
  don't know how much is like actually
• 50:43
  behind this.
• 50:45
  >> My ultimate takeaway to the community.
• 50:48
  Got to be discerning. That's my
• 50:49
  takeaway. scrutinize what you're seeing
• 50:52
  in front of you and ask not only is this
• 50:54
  a real leak, but ask is this the the the
• 50:58
  conversation that I should be engaging
• 51:00
  in right now. And this extends a lot
• 51:02
  further. I just my thoughts on a lot of
• 51:04
  gaming discourse happening as of late.
• 51:06
  But I just think that particularly in
• 51:08
  the Nintendo space, there's just so much
• 51:10
  we could be talking about and and these
• 51:12
  games hold so much perennial relevance
• 51:15
  financially and creatively.
• 51:19
  Why can't you talk about Donkey Kong
• 51:20
  Bonanza still? I know that the game came
• 51:22
  out 10 months ago. I'm still writing
• 51:24
  about Donkey Kong Bonanza.
• 51:25
  >> Yeah,
• 51:26
  >> come join me. Let's talk about it.
• 51:29
  >> Why Why uh why can't we take the all
• 51:33
  take the tell Explain it to me, explain
• 51:35
  it to the listener? It's because the
• 51:37
  truth is is that we don't
• 51:38
  >> and you again, as you said, you kind of
• 51:41
  um know a lot of the people in this
• 51:43
  space and you kind of know how they
• 51:44
  operate and there is this pressure to
• 51:46
  kind of keep pushing forward. Um, is it,
• 51:49
  and listen, I I I want this to I don't
• 51:50
  want this to come across as ungenerous,
• 51:52
  though I know that it is. Is it the
• 51:57
  work proposition?
• 51:58
  >> I think, can I be honest? I think it is.
• 52:00
  Uh, because in my experience of like
• 52:02
  working on like videos and stuff like
• 52:04
  that, um, I have kind of like stopped
• 52:07
  watching YouTube videos about the stuff
• 52:09
  that I'm currently working on. And I did
• 52:12
  that initially because I was like, well,
• 52:13
  I'm trying not to I'm trying to like
• 52:14
  come to my own conclusions and and
• 52:15
  whatever else. But uh I I realized that
• 52:18
  so much of like content creation is sort
• 52:20
  of like one person saying one thing at
• 52:22
  one point. Someone did the work and then
• 52:24
  everyone else just restating that thing
• 52:26
  completely like as if it is true. And
• 52:29
  I'm not saying that it's not true, but I
• 52:30
  am saying that often it is like a
• 52:32
  singular interpretation of something.
• 52:33
  And to actually sit down and play a game
• 52:35
  and go like okay what now? I think is
• 52:38
  actually quite difficult. And I I think
• 52:40
  does take a a particular set of skills.
• 52:41
  And I think it is um a different set of
• 52:44
  skills. Uh, I'm not saying easier or
• 52:46
  harder or whatever, but I am saying like
• 52:49
  if you are not someone who is like
• 52:50
  particularly strong at doing like real
• 52:52
  like analysis of a game that is in front
• 52:54
  of you, like looking at what is
• 52:56
  happening and interpreting and talking
• 52:57
  about it and dissecting and whatever,
• 52:58
  then I do think it is much much much
• 53:00
  simpler to sit down and say, "Yeah, but
• 53:04
  Nate the Hate said this thing and I want
• 53:05
  to talk about the leak instead."
• 53:08
  >> Yeah. I mean, this I I I think you're
• 53:10
  totally right about the work and I think
• 53:11
  you're also right to that final point. I
• 53:14
  think it also speaks to the real like
• 53:17
  group think in the Nintendo community.
• 53:19
  Everybody's always got to be talking
• 53:21
  about the same thing.
• 53:22
  >> Yeah.
• 53:22
  >> And so it always points people in in
• 53:24
  this particular direction.
• 53:26
  >> Um but you know, I I guess this isn't
• 53:29
  really a show for giving prescriptive
• 53:31
  advice about what people ought to be
• 53:32
  doing, but I'm the guest, so I'm going
• 53:33
  to break the rules. I I think that I I
• 53:36
  really like um the way that a YouTuber
• 53:39
  like Arlo, who has a very big voice in
• 53:42
  Nintendo community, will post reviews
• 53:45
  for game for a game a year after it came
• 53:47
  out, two years after it came out. Maybe
• 53:49
  it'll be an hour and a half long.
• 53:51
  >> And those are games that have
• 53:53
  fundamentally those reviews have
• 53:54
  fundamentally changed how people have
• 53:56
  thought about a game like Paper Mario,
• 53:57
  Origami King, and things. I think that
• 54:00
  you can have I think I really think you
• 54:02
  can have it both ways. If you got to
• 54:04
  make your if you got to make your news
• 54:05
  videos, raise the bar on what you're
• 54:08
  talking about. You don't need to talk
• 54:09
  about the bottom of the barrel leaks.
• 54:11
  Make me make me your daily speculation
• 54:13
  video, but ground it in your
• 54:15
  perspective. Ground it in the things
• 54:17
  that you can observe and give new
• 54:19
  commentary on. Make make a better
• 54:21
  version of those videos. That's fine by
• 54:23
  me. And then chip away on those big
• 54:26
  projects that steer things. Because even
• 54:29
  my friends who have much smaller
• 54:30
  channels than Arlos, they make videos
• 54:33
  that really push things forward because
• 54:35
  the right video about about Nintendo
• 54:37
  game could be anything will catch on.
• 54:40
  And so in the short term, speculate
• 54:42
  better. In the long term, work on the
• 54:44
  things I think have a little bit more
• 54:46
  meat on the bone. I understand you can't
• 54:48
  cut out all this stuff. I don't have
• 54:49
  this. I I make books for a living. I
• 54:51
  certainly have no obligation to be
• 54:53
  timely on anything, but I just think
• 54:54
  that you can do that better and you can
• 54:56
  make cool stuff at the same time. A lot
• 54:58
  of good Nintendo YouTubers,
• 54:59
  >> that's great advice. I think a lot of
• 55:00
  what you're saying too at the heart of
• 55:01
  this is, and then Peter, I want to hear
• 55:03
  what you were going to say, but just um
• 55:04
  this like try to imagine the version of
• 55:07
  your work and your content that is not
• 55:09
  replicatable, that is not like um
• 55:12
  everybody you're you're saying the same
• 55:14
  thing as somebody else. What is your
• 55:16
  actual kind of like perspective on this?
• 55:17
  Because something I know a lot in kind
• 55:19
  of uh Nintendo spaces and I experienced
• 55:21
  this myself in my own discord is that I
• 55:23
  find there are these kind of like video
• 55:25
  game super fans who have um calcified
• 55:29
  relationships to their entire video game
• 55:31
  history. I know which games I like. I
• 55:33
  know which games I don't like. I have an
• 55:34
  internal ranking of every single
• 55:36
  franchise in my head. And what I would
• 55:38
  say is like I would urge you I would
• 55:40
  encourage you to revisit and say you
• 55:43
  have changed. You are a new person. You
• 55:45
  will uh you will see things and
• 55:47
  experience things that you did not see
• 55:49
  and experience the first time. You will
• 55:51
  have a new authentic relationship to the
• 55:53
  game if you revisit it. And I think it
• 55:56
  is incredibly important to kind of uh
• 55:58
  work that muscle of replaying and
• 56:00
  revisiting games and experiencing this
• 56:03
  for yourself because you will find
• 56:05
  yourself in the middle of that ecstasy
• 56:07
  of discovery going I thought I knew this
• 56:09
  thing and turns out it was not what I
• 56:11
  thought. I had a genuine surprise with
• 56:13
  this thing I thought I knew. Yeah,
• 56:14
  >> the last thing I'll say on that, sorry
• 56:16
  not to cut you off here, but just to to
• 56:17
  dubtail on that point directly,
• 56:19
  especially Nintendo fans, Nintendo has
• 56:22
  arranged an an ecosystem where this is
• 56:24
  not only possible, but it is in the
• 56:27
  zeitgeist.
• 56:28
  >> Ooh, yes.
• 56:29
  >> Galaxy 1 and 2 came out. I replayed
• 56:31
  Galaxy 2 and I said, "This isn't hitting
• 56:33
  for me playing it after I played Bonanza
• 56:35
  and playing Odyssey." And so that
• 56:38
  prompted revelations to me about the
• 56:39
  Galaxy games, about Bonanza. And I wrote
• 56:42
  that up and I felt like I really gained
• 56:44
  something interesting. And that and if I
• 56:46
  were a Nintendo YouTuber, that would
• 56:47
  have been a topical video to make
• 56:49
  because Nintendo's always re-releasing
• 56:50
  old stuff. They're always pushing out
• 56:52
  these NSO updates. They're giving you
• 56:54
  the opportunities to do what Jake is
• 56:55
  doing. I think we just need to grab
• 56:57
  them.
• 56:57
  >> And I think to your point too, like uh
• 56:59
  the YouTube ecosystem is so so so built
• 57:02
  around the idea of something you talked
• 57:04
  about before it like retrospectives,
• 57:06
  right? So like even if even if Galaxy is
• 57:08
  not particularly relevant, which it will
• 57:09
  be eventually, right? and it is right
• 57:11
  now, but like if it wasn't currently,
• 57:14
  like it will come around because there
• 57:15
  will be the time when people want to
• 57:16
  hear about it and want to talk about it
• 57:17
  and whatever, as if they don't already.
• 57:19
  Um, but also something I really liked
• 57:20
  about what you said earlier too is uh
• 57:22
  something I kind of like believe uh
• 57:24
  pretty pretty strongly. This idea that
• 57:26
  like a lot of the things that we talk
• 57:27
  about on this show um are not like 100%
• 57:30
  black and white like it is always wrong
• 57:32
  to do it to do this, right? There's so
• 57:34
  many things where I'm like no no like
• 57:36
  >> it is not inherently wrong to cover
• 57:39
  leaks, right? or to talk do the
• 57:40
  speculation and to do the industry
• 57:42
  analysis. None of that is inherently
• 57:43
  wrong. But I think that there are ways
• 57:44
  to do it that are less interesting and
• 57:46
  there are ways to do it that are
• 57:47
  compelling and push the medium forward
• 57:49
  and add something to the space. And when
• 57:51
  we talk about stuff like this, I think
• 57:52
  what we are largely bemoning is just
• 57:53
  this thing where it's like yeah, but
• 57:55
  like no one is like actually wanting to
• 57:57
  do that and to want to push it forward
• 57:59
  because at the end of the day, uh it
• 58:02
  it's hard work to do any of it, right?
• 58:04
  And and to to you know really really put
• 58:06
  the work into to changing stuff. But um
• 58:08
  >> yeah, you you got to keep your eye on
• 58:09
  the ball and just like uh to to anybody
• 58:11
  that's out there like discussing
• 58:12
  Nintendo stuff, just uh try to challenge
• 58:14
  yourself. You don't have to copy the
• 58:16
  other Nintendo YouTubers. You don't have
• 58:18
  to talk the way that they do and you
• 58:19
  don't have to prescribe to what they
• 58:21
  tell you is important. You can kind of
• 58:22
  uh have your own revelation. Something
• 58:25
  that we're doing on the Discord right
• 58:26
  now is that we're playing through
• 58:27
  Pokemon Gold for the Game Boy Color. And
• 58:29
  one of my favorite things I just saw was
• 58:31
  um a member of the Critical Error
• 58:32
  Nation, uh Andrew Bolkar, posted a
• 58:35
  review of their experience so far. And
• 58:37
  it's like hilarious to read because
• 58:39
  they're just like, "This is not at all
• 58:41
  what I thought it was. What is this?"
• 58:44
  And almost almost like uh revolt like
• 58:47
  revulsion like disgust over this being
• 58:50
  the sequel to Pokemon Red and Blue. Very
• 58:52
  funny. Um
• 58:53
  >> Jake, yeah. No, please. I actually
• 58:56
  wanted to mine Abram for one more
• 58:58
  question before we go into our ending
• 59:00
  bits here and then uh it was so we've
• 59:04
  talked a little bit about Star Fox and
• 59:06
  uh the new Star Fox game and kind of how
• 59:08
  people have been talking about that. But
• 59:10
  I'm curious to know from you I love you
• 59:13
  know I love Star Fox number one Star Fox
• 59:15
  Assault fan on the internet I would say
• 59:17
  and I know you love Star Fox. I I
• 59:20
  believe your favorite is 64.
• 59:22
  >> Yeah.
• 59:22
  >> Okay. What are people missing about Star
• 59:26
  Fox 2026? What are they missing? Because
• 59:29
  that was a chunky direct about this
• 59:31
  game. This was a a 15minute ordeal in
• 59:35
  which we played a lot of music, showed a
• 59:37
  lot of levels,
• 59:38
  >> demonstrated an entire multiplayer mode,
• 59:40
  the of course the Vtuber function that
• 59:42
  we that we had to show Peter before we
• 59:44
  started recording.
• 59:45
  >> Um that I'm I can't wait for it. Um
• 59:48
  >> what are what are people missing about
• 59:50
  this game?
• 59:50
  >> I think there's a couple things. Yeah,
• 59:53
  >> I think the first is that there's sort
• 59:54
  of this point of discussion about
• 59:56
  whether or not there is appetite for a
• 59:59
  rail shooter game.
• 1:00:01
  >> And I sort of um am broadly skeptical of
• 1:00:03
  the idea that any genre is intrinsically
• 1:00:05
  not palatable anymore. But I'm going to
• 1:00:07
  just set that to the side. I think
• 1:00:09
  what's cool about a game like Star Fox
• 1:00:11
  64 is that anybody could pick that up
• 1:00:13
  and play it. It's very understandable
• 1:00:15
  and it's very cinematic. there's a lot
• 1:00:17
  of great spectacle to that game. And I
• 1:00:19
  think that when you punch it up with
• 1:00:20
  this sort of modern style, it's going to
• 1:00:22
  be even more impressive. So, I really
• 1:00:24
  think that a big part of this that I in
• 1:00:26
  my view Nintendo is seeing that a lot of
• 1:00:28
  people aren't acknowledging is that I
• 1:00:30
  think this game is just going to do
• 1:00:32
  quite well in a modern environment where
• 1:00:33
  this is a big pretty $50 game to play on
• 1:00:36
  your Switch 2. I want to put that out
• 1:00:37
  there firstly, but secondly, I think
• 1:00:39
  that this game is also looking to change
• 1:00:42
  our relationship to Star Fox. To me,
• 1:00:44
  it's happening in two key ways that I'm
• 1:00:46
  seeing. Um, the first is that they're
• 1:00:48
  talking a lot about cutscene and they're
• 1:00:50
  talking a lot about story. And there's
• 1:00:52
  going to be a fundamentally different um
• 1:00:55
  pace to the experience and a different
• 1:00:57
  relationship you have to the game when
• 1:00:59
  you sit down to play Star Fox and in
• 1:01:00
  between every mission you have maybe a
• 1:01:02
  minute 90 second cut scene instead of a
• 1:01:04
  10-second mission briefing on a text
• 1:01:06
  screen from General Pepper. I think
• 1:01:08
  that's going to make the stakes of the
• 1:01:09
  game feel very different. I think it's
• 1:01:10
  going to make the arcade framework feel
• 1:01:13
  different. So, I'm really curious
• 1:01:14
  personally to examine that as someone
• 1:01:16
  who has played
• 1:01:17
  >> countless runs of 64. Um, and then the
• 1:01:20
  other thing that is, I think, big and
• 1:01:23
  um, got subsumed by the remake
• 1:01:25
  conversation is the multiplayer side of
• 1:01:28
  things because I feel like there are
• 1:01:29
  Nintendo series, a particular one I
• 1:01:31
  would look to being F-Zero, that have
• 1:01:34
  had a piece of their appeal that had
• 1:01:37
  been locked away from us, unlocked by
• 1:01:40
  having an online dimension. I'd always
• 1:01:42
  loved F-Zero. I played every one of
• 1:01:44
  them. But F-Z99 on Switch is my favorite
• 1:01:48
  by a mile because the spirit of F-Zero,
• 1:01:51
  its aggression, its competition online
• 1:01:56
  takes it up 10fold. So, what happens
• 1:01:58
  when you take these all range arena
• 1:02:01
  style battles that you could previously
• 1:02:03
  only experience locally with three other
• 1:02:05
  people? What happens when you take that
• 1:02:06
  and you put them in an objective based
• 1:02:08
  context, bring them online against
• 1:02:10
  randoms? Is that gonna teach us
• 1:02:12
  something about Star Fox that we didn't
• 1:02:13
  know before? I think there's a good
• 1:02:15
  chance that it will.
• 1:02:16
  >> That was very exciting. That last bit I
• 1:02:18
  thought was very exciting. Um, I agree.
• 1:02:20
  >> Yeah, it's funny. I got to I got to
• 1:02:21
  apologize to Abram because in the in the
• 1:02:23
  Discord, you had made that point to me
• 1:02:25
  about the multiplayer being
• 1:02:26
  transformative, and I brushed it off. I
• 1:02:28
  went, "This looks like a little silly
• 1:02:30
  add-on mode. I don't think that this is
• 1:02:31
  substantial at all." I then got back to
• 1:02:34
  my home where I could relax, and I
• 1:02:36
  rewatched the Nintendo Direct and I and
• 1:02:38
  I queued up that multiplayer section.
• 1:02:40
  And I got to tell you, I think you're
• 1:02:41
  entirely correct. Um, something that did
• 1:02:43
  not clock for me initially is that I
• 1:02:45
  think that the uh injection of the
• 1:02:47
  VTuber thing that I had mentioned
• 1:02:50
  earlier where you can see everybody's
• 1:02:52
  little faces move alongside as the
• 1:02:54
  characters in the game is actually
• 1:02:56
  trying to deploy a cinematic quality
• 1:02:59
  into multiplayer where typically some of
• 1:03:02
  those elements collapse under what the
• 1:03:04
  game is. So, normally like you you lose
• 1:03:07
  some of the the characterization and
• 1:03:09
  some of like the the stuff that is like
• 1:03:12
  the narrative hooks of Star Fox when you
• 1:03:13
  set it in a multiplayer setting and it
• 1:03:15
  just becomes a battle arena. I think by
• 1:03:17
  imposing your yourself and your emotions
• 1:03:19
  whatever you are saying is you don't
• 1:03:21
  need Pepe to scream at you do a barrel
• 1:03:23
  roll. you will now have some stupid clip
• 1:03:26
  of your friend as Peppy saying something
• 1:03:29
  to you that could solidify itself in
• 1:03:31
  your mind in the same way that that do a
• 1:03:34
  barrel roll did in that particular
• 1:03:35
  circumstance. But um yeah, for anybody
• 1:03:38
  that hasn't that maybe needs to to look
• 1:03:39
  at it again, I I recommend pulling up
• 1:03:42
  that Star Fox Direct and watching that
• 1:03:43
  multiplayer section again because it
• 1:03:45
  actually was far more riveting than I
• 1:03:47
  think I uh initially gave it credit for
• 1:03:49
  just to see everybody's like little
• 1:03:51
  names and their and their ships all
• 1:03:52
  around. and they've all got their little
• 1:03:53
  health bars and it's like the the
• 1:03:55
  decision-making you have to make in that
• 1:03:56
  moment over the objective versus taking
• 1:03:58
  out an opponent versus it all became it
• 1:04:00
  all surfaced for me in a way that I see
• 1:04:02
  what you are saying by having the
• 1:04:04
  multiplayer it makes what it used to be
• 1:04:07
  this like foreign object in the same way
• 1:04:09
  that I can't rank fighting games or
• 1:04:13
  sports games pre-online in the same I
• 1:04:17
  can't hold them in as high regard as I
• 1:04:18
  can in the postonline fighting game
• 1:04:21
  sports games because I'm like Oh, this
• 1:04:22
  is what they are. This is what it's all
• 1:04:24
  about. So excited for that element of
• 1:04:26
  it. Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  >> Can I say I think it also like the the
• 1:04:28
  like game chat like VTuber thing, uh, as
• 1:04:32
  as like silly as it is, I do think it
• 1:04:34
  does like actually uh like fully
• 1:04:38
  recreate the vibe of like when you're a
• 1:04:40
  kid and you watch Star Wars and New Hope
• 1:04:43
  for the first time and everyone's like
• 1:04:44
  like go doing the tren whatever and you
• 1:04:46
  get like it's the same sort of like shot
• 1:04:47
  of like everyone sort of in their
• 1:04:48
  cockpits. It like creates that vibe. Do
• 1:04:50
  you know what I mean? For you and your
• 1:04:51
  friends. I don't know. I think that's I
• 1:04:52
  think it's kind of fun.
• 1:04:53
  >> No, and that vibe is important to these
• 1:04:54
  games. I was just playing I was just
• 1:04:55
  playing Star Fox 64 3D on my 3DS and
• 1:04:58
  something that's that really like hit me
• 1:05:00
  playing that game was having that bottom
• 1:05:02
  screen be that kind of communicator with
• 1:05:05
  the other characters and how they like
• 1:05:07
  the the feeling that that actually gave
• 1:05:09
  me of like the screen is a different
• 1:05:11
  size and it's like the the way it
• 1:05:13
  doesn't take up any of the the real
• 1:05:14
  estate from my view of the ship and
• 1:05:16
  stuff. I was like, "Damn, this is like
• 1:05:18
  it actually was hitting me in a way that
• 1:05:20
  I was like, they this is quite good. I
• 1:05:22
  like that 64 3D." Abram, I think you got
• 1:05:23
  to play it again. I think it I think it
• 1:05:24
  should go above 64 for Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  >> Can I can I interrupt and just tell you
• 1:05:30
  both something that I think about and I
• 1:05:31
  go love that.
• 1:05:33
  >> It's a critical nation.
• 1:05:37
  >> Uh, if you are interested, you can
• 1:05:39
  access bonus episodes. We have an
• 1:05:41
  incredible backlog of bonus episodes on
• 1:05:43
  patreon.com/critical
• 1:05:46
  error uh by being a $5 or up member of
• 1:05:49
  the nation. You get access to all of
• 1:05:51
  that. I personally think we've been on a
• 1:05:52
  heater lately. Um our last uh bonus
• 1:05:55
  episode where Jake and I both brought 30
• 1:05:57
  of the best games of all time. Uh I
• 1:06:00
  think was a delightful conversation. And
• 1:06:02
  I I've uh been having a lot of fun
• 1:06:03
  reading uh what everyone else in the
• 1:06:05
  nation has uh contributed to the uh the
• 1:06:08
  list of of best games ever in our
• 1:06:10
  Discord server. Yeah,
• 1:06:11
  >> really fantastic bonus pod. Like oh my
• 1:06:13
  god, us going through 60 games. What a
• 1:06:15
  delight. But I want to cosign that. I
• 1:06:17
  was surprised and taken I was really
• 1:06:19
  taken back by the discussion it inspired
• 1:06:22
  on our Discord with everybody kind of
• 1:06:24
  getting in on this sharing their top 30
• 1:06:26
  games. really fun to get to know people
• 1:06:28
  in that way was um quite quite had a
• 1:06:31
  sense of uh pride over all of the Yes.
• 1:06:34
  >> And I do I will say I did clock this.
• 1:06:37
  You've been replaying Batman uh Arkham
• 1:06:39
  Knight, right?
• 1:06:40
  >> In inspired by our conversation. I
• 1:06:42
  needed to go back.
• 1:06:43
  >> I have been replaying Returnal cuz I was
• 1:06:45
  like surely like it's not Clown Town for
• 1:06:47
  me to have this on the list, right? And
• 1:06:49
  then like I've been playing it like no
• 1:06:50
  it's good. It's good. Okay, I'm gonna
• 1:06:52
  talk to you about that in the new bonus
• 1:06:53
  pod for this week because I got I gotta
• 1:06:56
  tell you, Batman Arkham Knight is
• 1:06:57
  [ __ ] me up, dude. I'm like blowing my
• 1:07:00
  mind. Okay, cool, cool, cool. I'm so
• 1:07:01
  excited.
• 1:07:02
  >> Um, but I would like to give a a special
• 1:07:04
  big thank you to the members of the Jake
• 1:07:06
  and Peter tier of the nation. These are
• 1:07:08
  the people who are donating $20 a month
• 1:07:10
  who we are eternally grateful for. And
• 1:07:12
  for the first time in a few months here,
• 1:07:14
  we have a new member in Joshua Day.
• 1:07:16
  Joshua, thank you so much. Thank you as
• 1:07:18
  well to Robert Quesada, Evan Snee, and
• 1:07:21
  Andrew Bulkar. I read from the bottom up
• 1:07:23
  this time. You can never you never know
• 1:07:25
  what to expect. Um Jake, every single
• 1:07:28
  week you also create a sound for the
• 1:07:30
  members of the Critical Error Royalty.
• 1:07:32
  What uh what sound do you think it's
• 1:07:33
  going to be this week?
• 1:07:34
  >> Star Fox sound. I don't know what it is
• 1:07:36
  yet, but I'm I'm excited to figure it
• 1:07:38
  out. I'm excited to figure out a Star
• 1:07:39
  Fox sound. Yes. Let's hear it.
• 1:07:41
  >> All right, team. Mission support check.
• 1:07:43
  Time to see who's flying with Critical
• 1:07:45
  Error Royalty today. Looks like we've
• 1:07:47
  got company.
• 1:07:48
  >> We've got Andrew Bulkar, Anel Trait,
• 1:07:50
  Evansne, Mera, Whoa, don't get too
• 1:07:52
  cocky. Robert Quesada has entered the
• 1:07:54
  atmosphere and Joshua Day is here as
• 1:07:57
  well. Connor Trullo, cover me please.
• 1:07:59
  We've got Danny Disaster on the wing.
• 1:08:01
  James Pierre Reed, Jacob Richter, Jared
• 1:08:04
  Kuseno, and Sam Woods, please deploy the
• 1:08:07
  G diffuser now. Cole is here. Good luck.
• 1:08:10
  Mitch Dyron, Kale Chow, use your boost.
• 1:08:12
  You got to catch up. Shin, Pinky Oats,
• 1:08:15
  Thick Dick Mystic, Alex Sims,
• 1:08:17
  non-existent.
• 1:08:19
  What do you mean non-existent? And
• 1:08:21
  Mergy, thank you to all of our Patreon
• 1:08:23
  supporters for keeping this operation
• 1:08:26
  airborne. Without you, we would all be
• 1:08:28
  drifting through space. Now, let's go
• 1:08:31
  critical error team. We're heading back
• 1:08:32
  to base.
• 1:08:34
  >> Let's wrap up this. Abram, I guess
• 1:08:37
  you're just hanging out for this part.
• 1:08:38
  >> Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks for being
• 1:08:39
  here, Abram. Yeah.
• 1:08:40
  >> Yeah. Thanks. for having me.
• 1:08:43
  >> You know, first non-game of the year
• 1:08:45
  guest to the Critical Error podcast
• 1:08:47
  >> for the usual.
• 1:08:48
  >> Very honored. Yeah. Thank you.
• 1:08:49
  >> Uh Peter, let's go ahead and wrap up
• 1:08:52
  this episode as we do every week with
• 1:08:54
  your prewritten
• 1:08:56
  piece
• 1:08:57
  >> to this week.
• 1:08:58
  >> To peel back the curtain just a little
• 1:09:00
  bit. Uh usually we record on Wednesdays.
• 1:09:03
  Today is Monday. I'm going to be out of
• 1:09:05
  town. And I didn't we didn't know that
• 1:09:06
  we were doing the main app until like
• 1:09:08
  this morning. So,
• 1:09:11
  I threw this together. It's a little on
• 1:09:13
  the shorter side, which is also fine
• 1:09:14
  because I think our conversation went a
• 1:09:15
  little long, so it all balances itself
• 1:09:17
  out. Here we go.
• 1:09:20
  >> My daughter-in-law farms bees.
• 1:09:23
  I have this jar of honey from some lady
• 1:09:25
  I know, and every morning I have a
• 1:09:27
  spoonful of it right when I wake up,
• 1:09:29
  like medicine. Well, it is medicine.
• 1:09:32
  Well, I mean, it's not medicine. I used
• 1:09:36
  to think that eating local honey acted
• 1:09:38
  like a daily vaccine against seasonal
• 1:09:40
  allergies. Like everyone was wasting
• 1:09:42
  their money on antihistamines when all
• 1:09:44
  you need is a honey hookup and you're
• 1:09:46
  set for the year. As it turns out, this
• 1:09:50
  is not true. The idea that bees make
• 1:09:52
  honey using small doses of pollen you're
• 1:09:54
  allergic to and it works the same way as
• 1:09:56
  a vaccine sounds pretty good. It sounds
• 1:10:00
  like it should be true, but it has no
• 1:10:02
  scientific backing. I learned this like
• 1:10:05
  two years ago. Learned that the backbone
• 1:10:07
  of my allergy defenses since I was a kid
• 1:10:09
  was complete [ __ ] But I still am a
• 1:10:13
  beautiful keeper of honey. I have it
• 1:10:15
  every day. And to me it helps because
• 1:10:18
  while medicine is powerful, yes, there
• 1:10:19
  is nothing more powerful to me than
• 1:10:21
  placebo. Than believing that I will be
• 1:10:24
  well so I am well. This is the same
• 1:10:27
  reason I believe in ghosts. I've seen
• 1:10:29
  the fact that people in the United
• 1:10:31
  States are more likely to believe in
• 1:10:32
  them because of our proximity to
• 1:10:33
  man-made electromagnetic fields. That
• 1:10:35
  there are easily explainable answers to
• 1:10:37
  paranormal sightings. But is there not
• 1:10:40
  any room on this earth for the things we
• 1:10:42
  cannot quantify?
• 1:10:44
  I drink decaf coffee when I need a jolt.
• 1:10:48
  I guess it's just fun to pretend.
• 1:10:51
  I'm happy to let my mind wander a little
• 1:10:53
  bit. I think it's healthy for me to grip
• 1:10:54
  tightly onto the idea of not knowing
• 1:10:56
  unimportant things for the sake of being
• 1:10:58
  happier. For believing that I am not
• 1:11:00
  sneezing because I got to have a
• 1:11:02
  spoonful of the sweetest medicine I can
• 1:11:04
  find. For believing that I've seen a
• 1:11:06
  ghost to keep the mystery of the soul
• 1:11:08
  alive. For blaming my insomnia on a
• 1:11:10
  drink that I know in my heart of hearts
• 1:11:12
  didn't cause it. I am deeply invested in
• 1:11:15
  facts and reason. But that does not also
• 1:11:18
  mean that I have given up on belief.
• 1:11:20
  Thank you. Woo. Thank you, Peter. Peter,
• 1:11:24
  I've come to after listening to you for
• 1:11:26
  so long read a lot of, you know, and
• 1:11:27
  hearing a lot of your work, I've I've
• 1:11:29
  come to recognize the the the songwriter
• 1:11:31
  in your style because I because I
• 1:11:33
  because I think I think you can really
• 1:11:35
  turn a sentence. I think like sometimes
• 1:11:36
  it's like
• 1:11:37
  >> I the the most common feeling I have
• 1:11:39
  listening to you read is me going, "Oh,
• 1:11:42
  what a great first sentence for a
• 1:11:44
  chapter. What a great like if you
• 1:11:46
  started I open up a book and it's um
• 1:11:49
  like sometimes I have a decaf coffee to
• 1:11:51
  give myself a jolt. I'm like
• 1:11:53
  congratulations you got me. I will
• 1:11:55
  continue to read this book. Which is
• 1:11:57
  something that I think a lot of people
• 1:11:58
  struggle with. Um
• 1:11:59
  >> Jake, I'm deeply deeply honored to hear
• 1:12:02
  that. Like thank you so much. That means
• 1:12:03
  so much to me.
• 1:12:04
  >> You got to be able to turn a sentence. I
• 1:12:06
  I you know what I mean? It's like I um I
• 1:12:08
  focus so much on on shape and structure
• 1:12:10
  because I think it's the most teachable
• 1:12:12
  aspect of writing to be honest with you,
• 1:12:14
  but like
• 1:12:15
  >> once you get past that, it's hard to to
• 1:12:19
  impart that quality onto somebody to to
• 1:12:21
  be so it's I I think that's a that's a
• 1:12:23
  great quality to have.
• 1:12:24
  >> Well, thank you very much. I really
• 1:12:26
  really appreciate that. That that means
• 1:12:28
  actually so much to me.
• 1:12:29
  >> Great. Good. All right. Well, hey, what
• 1:12:33
  do we do now? I think we do the bonus
• 1:12:35
  pod. We never do the bonus pod second.
• 1:12:37
  We always do it first. This is going to
• 1:12:38
  be like literally a first for ever. I
• 1:12:41
  think
• 1:12:42
  >> I'm excited. Uh Abram, thank you so much
• 1:12:44
  for joining us.
• 1:12:45
  >> Lending us your your expertise.
• 1:12:48
  >> Um is there anything that you're like I
• 1:12:51
  hope you know I'm going to ask Jake and
• 1:12:53
  Peter to put a link in the YouTube
• 1:12:55
  description. That's the link I want
• 1:12:57
  people to click and look at. Is that is
• 1:12:59
  that something that exists?
• 1:13:01
  Uh
• 1:13:03
  um no.
• 1:13:08
  That's right. How incredibly uncringe of
• 1:13:11
  you that is. That is what how how brave
• 1:13:14
  of you to I I hope you chart out a new
• 1:13:16
  path for podcast guests when I ask this
• 1:13:19
  question for them for them to go please.
• 1:13:21
  No. No click.
• 1:13:22
  >> Just anything you want to plug. No
• 1:13:23
  >> no click.
• 1:13:25
  if they want.
• 1:13:26
  >> I love I love being in the no click
• 1:13:28
  economy and I know that a lot of the
• 1:13:30
  members of the critical error nation uh
• 1:13:32
  appreciate you and the perspective that
• 1:13:33
  you bring in our Discord. So, it was
• 1:13:35
  great to be able to bring you onto a
• 1:13:37
  main pod. Thank you so much. We'll catch
• 1:13:39
  you next week. Bye.